I’ve played Eve Online off and on for years since 05. The larger guilds really do dominate a whole region of space and lock it down. Now enemy guilds do raid them now and again. but they can’t wrest control from them.
Big guikds will absolutely run everything. And I think unless counter measures are put in place it will create a very heavy guild vs guild power structure and unless your in one of the top pvp guilds it'll be hard to advance your node.
The question isn't "Will big guilds run the server?" It's, what is there for smaller guilds to achieve? Are small guilds even viable in AoC? This comes down mostly, to how many big guilds there are on any particular server, however let's assume enough to: Own every Castle, Tier 5 & 6 Node, and virtually every FreeHold. They can also lock down every World / Raid Boss, and control all GM crafting. You can fight back! Good luck when outnumbered 50 to 1 though. (Same with buying a FreeHold, or completing a Raid.) You have to pay the same Monthly Subscription Fee, but for a fraction of the content. I don't expect equality. I expect everyone to get value for their time and money. Not a sentiment I often see in Threads, Comments, or Forums surrounding AoC.
They will try, it’s going to be too big for one guild to own everything. There will be a guild everywhere but it won’t be crazy. And trying to manage these giant guilds and alliances is crazy hard and even if you can manage 2k people there are another 8k people on the server. It’s going to interesting for sure 😂 The better question is will Alliances control AoC and the answer is predominantly yes.
My prediction with guilds is most nodes wont be heavily effected by any particular guild. BUT there is almost guaranteed to be a few who are essentially ruled by a smallest size, maximum buff “elite” guild that runs an alliance of max member guilds as brother/sister guilds. Thats assuming a 50/50 members-buff guild doesnt end up being meta. Depending on how patron guilds work would be the only thing stopping that concept, but would only switch it around. A max member guild leading an alliance of other max member guilds and maybe an elite max buff guild so they get to be the patron and get all the benefits from that special role
With AoC and Guild Points, I think smart guilds will out smart themselves. IF for example, the Meta Guild Size for benefits and population is 150-200 than these guilds will parse themselves out into guilds of that size. A Big Guild will end up with 5 to 7 "Ideal" guilds (or more), all in a complex network of loosely framed "Alliances" (Real in game Alliances being reserved for Guilds outside the umbrella of the Mother Guild) held together by Discord, guild loyalty and friendship. Over time these guilds will form secret (or Real) Alliances with other guilds. The Crafting Guild is secretly selling goods to the enemy. The Processing Guild is secretly processing the goods of whom ever pays the price (gaining funds and influence outside of the Umbrella of the Mother Guild). The PvP Guild is bored and is killing gatherers that are part of the same vassal chain which is causing drama and an exodus of migrants. Once the Large Guilds sparse down into half a dozen guilds or more, they've already lost. ToOo many times have I seen a Guild be Ninja Looted from inside, Officer Politics destroy and fracture a guild to destruction, Bad Actors and spies infiltrate and plant the seeds of dissent. Will Big Guilds run everything? NO. They will try, in some cases they will succeed in running the area they control, but in most cases, it will be short lived. There are not enough Big Guilds to run EVERYTHING on EVERY SERVER. 5 Castles, 5 Metro's, 10 Cities, 10 Towns, 20 Villages, All the Guild Freeholds, and Thousands of normal Freeholds... (Not to mention all the POI's, Dungeons and Raids) This is just TOO MUCH for any Big Guild or even GROUP of Big Guilds or even EVERY Big Guild to run. It's just NOT POSSIBLE. Will Big Guilds "Dominate" servers? They'll try, but this same thing still applies, they will defeat themselves more times than not. With the size of the map, the lack of fast travel, the sheer number of nodes and freeholds, and the sub-guild layers that will exist... there will be Room for not just Medium Guilds but Small Guilds as well. Will "A" Guild run everything? Yes. Where-ever you go, A Guild will be in control of the node and its' progression. Will they be in control of ALL resources and POI's? not likely no.
Hey man, I am sure you get loads of deserved praise, but I must say that you are becoming my favorite AoC content creator. I am really impressed with how you present your topics and the art and the communication is top notch. Therefore, if it's OK with you, I would like to ask if you could consider/suggest two topics that I think you set your channel even more on that map? First I would love to see your analytic take on vlhadusgaming's call for Game of Thrones in AoC. The possible drama, intrigue, and backstabbing that may occur is something that I am sure many will find very interesting to know about. The more parallels you can pull to the show, the more views you will get. I think it would be awesome both for us who love your videos and for your channel. Second, a topic that is bothering a lot of people is botting, so I think it would be so cool if you made a video on how AoC will prevent bots. Just on top of my head: Real GM's, glint, caravans, world PvP, and there is probably more. I am just brainstorming, but as a huge fan of your stuff, I want you to succeed and maybe these topics can help. :)
Thanks dude! I appreciate the comment. I try to keep the quality up. The GoT aspect would be a blast to talk about! I’ll add it to a future video. Have you seen my botting video? I tried to cover that topic as well as I could. It’s my highest viewed video right now.
I think guilds won't be as important as people think in terms of controlling specific nodes. the idea of "guilds" will give way to the idea of "nations". the geography within the game and the group of people that make a place "home" will define how the game is ruled. I don't think those are necessarily going to be defined by guilds. will there be places which are dominated by guilds? yes. but I don't think that will be as common as you'd think at first. having everyone in a guild be in one place will put them off balance for achieving most goals, mainly because different resources will be in different areas. I suspect the power guilds will have is in tying nodes together in alliance, for the purpose of larger goals. guilds will be the logistical glue, but a guild that focuses on trying to control one place will be a severely weakened guild in terms of political power, wealth, and personal advancement. The truly large, powerful, influential, guilds will be those that realize guild power and influence is not defined by "owning" nodes. Like REAL guilds in the real world, they will be real source of power and influence behind the curtains of groups of nodes forming nations. a guild that focuses on being an army rather than being a logistics entity, will find it is a very weak guild.
@@yungsofa8084 Mortal Online was a whole other ball of wax. that was free for all with no game mechanics dedicated to penalizing murderous rampages, by anyone and everyone. so that's all that game became. there was no Eve style political intrigue, there was no purposeful pvp. it was just random gankfest-athon central. I am absolutely certain that people that LOVED Mortal Online will be less enthusiastic about AoC. Is it possible that gankfests will still a problem in AoC? yeah, it's possible. we'll see. At least the game was designed to reinforce purposeful pvp and penalize random ganking. How well that works is an open question at this point. Is it possible that guilds will still control all the nodes? sure, but I don't think it will be as bad as people are fearing, for the reasons I gave. ultimately we'll have to wait and see how it plays out. I'm convinced it will not be in guilds best interest to focus on trying to OWN a node. especially the really big guilds. it WILL be in the big guilds interests to establish relations with various nodes and other guilds. Will they be important to the advancement of nodes? absolutely.
Great video, as always, thanks Doc! I'll throw my money in with Chibi's opinion; while some big guilds might try to own everything, they're most likely going to run into the smaller guilds with better specced skill trees.
Im waiting to see politic maps like we had in darkfall which has similiar thing to AoC but was more primitive and more pvp orinated :P the politic map changing on weekly basis from what guild/alliance owns what node was fun to watch :P
Depends on what you mean by dominate. Will they have the big Metrolopis nodes and set taxes? yes. Will they dominate the raids? probably. Will they change a Siege to their favor? absolutely. But will they be on every part of the map and dictate how you play the game? probably not. I think there will be 2 Dimensions. One where the big guilds play and one where a solo player can play the game and not be drastically influenced by these big guilds.
@@cdiff07 I know that it will be group oriented and that's what i want. But that does not mean there won't be any solo players. It does not matter which MMO you look at; there will always be a plethora of different Players in Mmorpgs. Some just level every class to max level (twinkaholic), some just do professions and flip the auction house and some just explore the world. That won't change with Ashes even though it's group oriented.
Look to rust, you get horses, helicopters and boats to travel, you setup turrets or towers with snipers to protect a farming location. Rust is small in scale to apc as well so with even more people just think of the systems you could create with what's available
PS: It might even be beneficial, if there are servers in a region (Europa, NA, etc), that are completely controlled by one big guild/alliance. It might satisfy a need of some players to have someone tell them what to do. Think about it. It might be a theme park server in a sandpark game. The leaders can organize big battles, open dungeons, by changing metropolis node locations, creating PvE zones by just prohibiting PvP in areas and blacklisting dissenters. Basically creating their own server rules and scripting content to their liking. I would change the server, but there is a demand for servers like that. Giant guilds become giant because people want them. Let them have their server.
People are already making discord and gravitate around some streamer to recruit people. It's gonna be something if you start this mmo alone and join a small guild for social...
They make most Gold and dominate the Market and other Guilds trying to keep up, cant compete anymore. Next point everybody wants to be part of that huge leader so all good player, good organizer will change to that guild. I've never seen a rebellion worked because people wont have that stress at a video game they want to chill and enjoy good parts of their gaming time. 300 Players and then also allys is to easy to hold for big guilds.
Big guilds will absolutely dominate in Ashes. I would be very impressed if they find mechanisms to prevent this that are actually effective. Very unlikely.
Maybe the big point here is just how well or poorly can these large guilds maintain nodes integrity. IF they are repressive, people will simply leave those nodes and they will either stop growing or regress. There is the potential for small but talented guilds to manage and maintain nodes with many other small guilds simply by creating very open frameworks for more independently minded players to thrive in. IF a Node can create player loyalty simply through great management and open access, the players that inhabit it will be far more inclined to defend it.
Big guilds will OWN an area. Defending, maintaining, growing that area and keeping the "peasants" satisfied will be a lot of work though. My hope is: "With Power comes Responsibility". That way there will be big guilds dominating their ZoI, but you (small guild) can escape their domination at any point by moving to a different area, that is not dominated. You can choose, if you want to live in an area, that is dominated by one guild, or you can live in an area, that is contested by multiple medium guilds. Both choices have pros and cons. Also: Servers will be player-saturated at the beginning. When player numbers go down, after a while, there will be whole areas, where nodes will be much less populated. My guess is, that you might be able to get a node with your small guild in those areas, but still choose to rather stay to be in crowded area, because it will be too hard to manage and maintain a node without enough people living in your node.
IMO having the different type of nodes will change how guilds have control, for sure the scientific nodes will have the bigger guilds where they can vote their mayor, but the other nodes where you don't vote for mayor they are where the fun would be at.
@@jamesray741 just because a system can be abused doesn't mean Intrepid would just let it stay that way, I have faith they could track this sort of abuse
After watching this, I'm going to (ask to) join Nyce's guild and I'm sure everything is going to be just fine. (After all, what could possibly go wrong?) I also agree with everyone who said that limiting guild size will be a big factor. Even without that constraint, the Dunbar Number for a tribe that spends nearly half its time on social grooming is 150. My long experience with (PvE and PvP) guilds in ESO and New World suggests a tipping point as low as 35 active players which is why I've only seen massive guilds in MMOs when the devs ask Content Creators to try out their game. For example Asmongold recently had 1,000 players in the Pax Dei Alpha 2 for a week and has made a number of insightful videos about the experience. I'm sure I'm not the only one hoping that AoC will finally give us an MMORPG that will achieve stable communities of 150 players.
I like the game of thrones analogy. having a large guild mainly influencing a node and having smaller guilds (houses) of that node fighting under one bamner for the good of their territory. Or smaller guilds being like divisions or legions within a huge army like the romans. You have to play a political game and make sure everyone in the territory is happy. Otherwise, you may get rebellions or set up for betrayal
GREAT vid! Tough subject for sure. I can see poeple wanting this to happen, but with the world size and no fast travel, I can see them maybe owning a few zones but not the whole server. But who knows....as with most anything else...we just need to get our hands on it and play.
The most likely scenario is that every node will have one popular big guild that runs most things in that node. I don't see mega guilds that lord over a 100 nodes be a thing to be honest. It is just completely unmanageable. All nodes have different needs, and all guild masters will allocate resources to the stuff they personally want to do, and that won't fly well with other people spanning multiple nodes.
All they need to do is make it so the more a guild controls the more resources it requires. Yea, I know that sounds like common sense. But here's what I mean. If a guild owns 1 node, the resources to manage it are standard like every other guild in the game. But if that same guild owns 2 nodes, then the resources needed to maintain the 2nd node are double what it would have normally been to just own one node. And by double I don't just mean 1 + 1 = 2. I mean 1 + 2 = 3. The second node costs doubled what it normally would. And if the guild owns three nodes the formula would be 1 + 2 + 4 = 7. This means the second node costs double what it normally would have and the third node costs 4 times what it normally would have. This would solve the issue of a large guild taking over numerous nodes.
Big well organized guilds filled with trusted members will run the game. Big guilds filled with players recruited in chat will get decimated. Guilds with each profession covered with members willing to help each other level their professions will have a huge advantage. Guilds with members who can be trusted not to expose when they're running caravans will have a huge advantage. Guilds with members willing to fight node wars to benefit the guilds interested will have a huge advantage. Guilds with untrustworthy members recruited in chat will constantly be taken advantage of.
The bigger guilds have the hinderance that smaller guilds do not, with a larger guild population you have a greater chance of internal strife, formation of cliques of people who do not like how things are run, who in turn decide to cause division/strife/turncoat and the possibility of spies/traitors who are working on behalf of the other nodes. Running massive guilds are a time sink of vetting, administering, politics in and out of the guild and losing the skill benefits. This is what is going to make the game epic, reminds me of the amazing 5 years I spent playing Asheron's Call on the PvP server Darktide, I can't wait.
The map is going to be huge and there is no fast travel outside of a science ran node. A big guild may take an area, but they certainty won't run a server. I also wouldn't be surprised if people make mercenary guilds (something I actually want to do). A smaller guild can hire mercenaries for protection. For the right price, of course!
I love the content, I just can't listen to that background music any second more sadly, my ocd can't handle it. Is that Strauss ? ;) But I'm watching it with no sound and subtitles. Also works
its not the question "will big guilds dominate" but "big guilds MUST dominate" the game made with favor to big guild and something like coalition will control the area also if this game works like albion, capping alliance does nothing because people can do non aggression pact and in albion its a problem that dont have a solution yet
I run one of the larger guilds in wow on stormrage it looks like we will be bringing at least one full guild if not two over based in the guild cap. The good news is I am all for people being able to enjoy a game and play. My officers and I have already been talking about how we plan on setting ours are area up. So hopefully we will make an area for people to really enjoy the game and not constantly get ganked. So if you run across “The Gathering of Knights” and need help just ask we will help you the best we can. If we can not save you at your time of need we will avenge you. I am LiteSparrow.
i think that people are at least slightly overestimating the amount of influence a guild can have over other people in AoC. just imagine, 300 people per guild, 4 guilds in an alliance, thats 1200 people, while the total amount of players on a full server will be ~50k (to achieve the 10k concurrent cap). thats only 2,4% of the total server population, nowhere near enough, probably not even enough to run one metropolis on their own. maybe they could get a few alliances together and run one metropolis, but like they said in this video, i forsee easy infighting there
I think once things settle they won't be able to dominate! The fact that anyone can join node sieges it means the smaller guilds and guildless can dog pile wreaking havoc and chaos. That alone will keep large guilds from getting to gluttonous. In DAoC it was always whoever was the strongest was fighting the other two realms and they would quietly work together to knock the biggest realm off the hill. This will happen in Ashes too where smaller guilds have temp alliances. I ran a small alliance in eve for years and yes the big alliances dominated period but that was also because with the way gate travel was you could bottleneck areas and make it easier to have your big fleets react, it shouldn't be that way with ashes the larger the pie they want the exponential amount of players you would need costing more while achieving less gold per person to maintain that pie.
I think a lot of people don’t understand the small guild buffs and what big guilds will be doing with it. The competitive guilds will have a large guild with their regular players and have smaller guilds for their elite players.
I think big guilds will have a lot of traitors and deal with a lot of espionage. Also one of my goals will be having a small group who are good enough and well stated enough, to fight a much larger group and win.
I think yes AND no, and from several different layers. The most populated servers are going to see the brunt of it. A massive conglomerate of people that just wash over everything. At that point, the only people populating the server, are the guild itself, in which case "congratz, you win, have fun playing on easy mode moving forward." Which one guy in the video mentioned.. people will get bored, and even in that worst case scenario server, the backstabs and power plays will begin. That server will effectively become its own version of the game, and there's real potential for it to spiral and break apart back into the intended guilds and alliances all fighting each other for dominance. It'll probably move in cycles as one guild or alliance gets the edge and takes the place of the "one supreme guild" and it all starts again. Then as you get to servers with lower populations, it'll more closely resemble the intended/expected scenario, where its smaller guilds exchanging power. I think it's also possible for things to peacefully stagnate, where different guilds have the land and control they want/can handle, and more or less agree to leave each other alone save for skermishes or problem players here and there. But more importantly imo, this is also where small fringe frontier guilds will start to shine, where a majority of the bigger conflicts involving the bigger guilds will revolve around the metropolis and other top tier nodes, while the smaller tier 1-3 nodes will more or less be left to their own devices. And that's the sort of dynamic that the game will revolve around for those server sizes. And then as you get to the lowest population servers, they won't have the numbers to support more than a couple metropolises, if at all. On these servers, the gameplay will more resemble roaming warbands, nomadic tribes, smaller but tight-knit communities. I think it'll take different forms, but something that all 3 tiers of servers will have in common, I think, are the casual and PvE players at the "bottom" banding together for protection and in outrage against the pvp players. I think a few common things in casual social guilds in other mmo's is the sense of community, the sheer disdain that PvE players have for the PvP players, and the few really skilled/ retired hardcore players that decided to be social instead of use their impressive skillset. The community will look out for each other, and the "veterans" will become anchors to teach their community how to play at that higher skill level to help each other out. And from there, guilds will rise to power that never intended to, just out of circumstance. And I really think that will be one of the core elements that will help shake up any oppressive status quos that arise.
When I was on a server in New World called Ferri, a morally bankrupt and overtly corrupt guild "Lost Templars" took over everything and oppressed our server for years. I hope this doesn't happen in Ashes of Creation.
Steven has designed this game from day one for large guilds. Large guilds and their satellite guilds will control all level 3 and above nodes. Freeholds produce the best processed goods, thus allowing the best crafted gear. Large guilds MUST control all the Freehold production in their zone of influence to get the best crafted gear and prevent their enemy from getting the best crafted gear. The best processed goods from the Freeholds will not be sold on the open market, it MUST be reserved for guild use only.
Devs need to focus majorly on small scale content and/or things in which every1 will be allowed to participate. Zergs and any other blobbing will fed you up quickly due to lack of personal contribution and certanly not every1 will be GM, RL or even officer. So having some activities that may require that is good but totally shouldn't be a focus otherwise you'll cut out huge audience of ppl and might get another boring niche game with 10k online IMO
If Ashes has any kind of success it will be taken over by massive guilds because there will be a financial aspect to it. Bigger guilds on New World were selling gold to the tune of 10k+ USD per month. If a player can earn a livable income through playing a game and owning a guild they will. It's ashes job to build mechanics that prevent this, not support it.
I think different territories should have different resources and if a guild owns a territory should not be allowed to own another. This forces trade and another political level. One wrong move and poof your attacked by a proxy guild. They also need to have some content meant for various size guilds. I do agree they will prob screw this up and it will become a zerg fest. Which will be downfall of pvp in this game. I think the is why people like factions so much vs gvg in games.
Honestly any big guild worth its salt will be seeking out servers with other big guilds so there is competition for them. If this is not the case why are they bothering just to curb stomp less organized smaller guilds to make them selves feel better and then stop playing when they realize its not actually that much fun without competition. Tend to find that most of the big guilds are just full of toxic bung rabbits anyway. The fact that many of the guilds that formed years back for ashes don't even exist now is quite telling and shows just how transient many players are.
if make a good combat in the game like in BDO, i play in competitive guild (we are top 3 guild in EU small/medium size) basicly destroy big guild with tactics and skill!but for now idk how gonna works that in AoC!Combat for me still looks a bit too slow and mehanics are not perfect!
Of course big guild will be running things to some extent. All the time investment, management of large amounts of players and so on should be rewarded. It will be up to the rest to either accept this guild or create alliances and bring them down. From my point AOC is already avoiding 2 biggest mistakes - having too small of a map/server and having factions. We all saw how NW servers crumbled because of these 2 reasons. Anyone who played Lineage 2 back in the day remember guilds and alliances forming, breaking, rebuilding, all the drama in this and how much fun it was. Having spies in other guilds, gaslighting and stuff. The content was endless.
node allegiance > guild allegiance. If two nodes go to war then their members are at war even if they are in the same guild. So unless the guild all sticks to one vassal chain there's inherent inner conflict no matter what else happens.
Any guild with coherent leadership will stick to one node when it comes to a conflict between nodes. Any guild that lets a node war split them apart deserved it and was going to fall apart anyhow.
I don’t see guilds are countries or nations or something. I see guilds as potential political factions within a nation or a political faction that dominates a nation.
Sounds awful. Sounds like being in high school again and having the popular kids steal your lunch money. Why would anyone find that a fun experience? It's not going to be this cool experience they think it is.
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I’ve played Eve Online off and on for years since 05.
The larger guilds really do dominate a whole region of space and lock it down. Now enemy guilds do raid them now and again. but they can’t wrest control from them.
Big guikds will absolutely run everything. And I think unless counter measures are put in place it will create a very heavy guild vs guild power structure and unless your in one of the top pvp guilds it'll be hard to advance your node.
The question isn't "Will big guilds run the server?" It's, what is there for smaller guilds to achieve? Are small guilds even viable in AoC?
This comes down mostly, to how many big guilds there are on any particular server, however let's assume enough to: Own every Castle, Tier 5 & 6 Node, and virtually every FreeHold. They can also lock down every World / Raid Boss, and control all GM crafting.
You can fight back! Good luck when outnumbered 50 to 1 though. (Same with buying a FreeHold, or completing a Raid.) You have to pay the same Monthly Subscription Fee, but for a fraction of the content.
I don't expect equality. I expect everyone to get value for their time and money. Not a sentiment I often see in Threads, Comments, or Forums surrounding AoC.
They will try, it’s going to be too big for one guild to own everything. There will be a guild everywhere but it won’t be crazy.
And trying to manage these giant guilds and alliances is crazy hard and even if you can manage 2k people there are another 8k people on the server.
It’s going to interesting for sure 😂
The better question is will Alliances control AoC and the answer is predominantly yes.
My prediction with guilds is most nodes wont be heavily effected by any particular guild. BUT there is almost guaranteed to be a few who are essentially ruled by a smallest size, maximum buff “elite” guild that runs an alliance of max member guilds as brother/sister guilds. Thats assuming a 50/50 members-buff guild doesnt end up being meta. Depending on how patron guilds work would be the only thing stopping that concept, but would only switch it around. A max member guild leading an alliance of other max member guilds and maybe an elite max buff guild so they get to be the patron and get all the benefits from that special role
With AoC and Guild Points, I think smart guilds will out smart themselves. IF for example, the Meta Guild Size for benefits and population is 150-200 than these guilds will parse themselves out into guilds of that size. A Big Guild will end up with 5 to 7 "Ideal" guilds (or more), all in a complex network of loosely framed "Alliances" (Real in game Alliances being reserved for Guilds outside the umbrella of the Mother Guild) held together by Discord, guild loyalty and friendship. Over time these guilds will form secret (or Real) Alliances with other guilds. The Crafting Guild is secretly selling goods to the enemy. The Processing Guild is secretly processing the goods of whom ever pays the price (gaining funds and influence outside of the Umbrella of the Mother Guild). The PvP Guild is bored and is killing gatherers that are part of the same vassal chain which is causing drama and an exodus of migrants. Once the Large Guilds sparse down into half a dozen guilds or more, they've already lost. ToOo many times have I seen a Guild be Ninja Looted from inside, Officer Politics destroy and fracture a guild to destruction, Bad Actors and spies infiltrate and plant the seeds of dissent. Will Big Guilds run everything? NO. They will try, in some cases they will succeed in running the area they control, but in most cases, it will be short lived. There are not enough Big Guilds to run EVERYTHING on EVERY SERVER. 5 Castles, 5 Metro's, 10 Cities, 10 Towns, 20 Villages, All the Guild Freeholds, and Thousands of normal Freeholds... (Not to mention all the POI's, Dungeons and Raids) This is just TOO MUCH for any Big Guild or even GROUP of Big Guilds or even EVERY Big Guild to run. It's just NOT POSSIBLE. Will Big Guilds "Dominate" servers? They'll try, but this same thing still applies, they will defeat themselves more times than not. With the size of the map, the lack of fast travel, the sheer number of nodes and freeholds, and the sub-guild layers that will exist... there will be Room for not just Medium Guilds but Small Guilds as well. Will "A" Guild run everything? Yes. Where-ever you go, A Guild will be in control of the node and its' progression. Will they be in control of ALL resources and POI's? not likely no.
Hey man,
I am sure you get loads of deserved praise, but I must say that you are becoming my favorite AoC content creator. I am really impressed with how you present your topics and the art and the communication is top notch. Therefore, if it's OK with you, I would like to ask if you could consider/suggest two topics that I think you set your channel even more on that map?
First I would love to see your analytic take on vlhadusgaming's call for Game of Thrones in AoC. The possible drama, intrigue, and backstabbing that may occur is something that I am sure many will find very interesting to know about. The more parallels you can pull to the show, the more views you will get. I think it would be awesome both for us who love your videos and for your channel.
Second, a topic that is bothering a lot of people is botting, so I think it would be so cool if you made a video on how AoC will prevent bots. Just on top of my head: Real GM's, glint, caravans, world PvP, and there is probably more.
I am just brainstorming, but as a huge fan of your stuff, I want you to succeed and maybe these topics can help. :)
Thanks dude! I appreciate the comment. I try to keep the quality up. The GoT aspect would be a blast to talk about! I’ll add it to a future video.
Have you seen my botting video? I tried to cover that topic as well as I could. It’s my highest viewed video right now.
@AshesofRelation I believe I has see all your stuff... can it have passed me by. I will look into it, but no matter, I am happy then. :D
I think guilds won't be as important as people think in terms of controlling specific nodes. the idea of "guilds" will give way to the idea of "nations". the geography within the game and the group of people that make a place "home" will define how the game is ruled. I don't think those are necessarily going to be defined by guilds. will there be places which are dominated by guilds? yes. but I don't think that will be as common as you'd think at first. having everyone in a guild be in one place will put them off balance for achieving most goals, mainly because different resources will be in different areas. I suspect the power guilds will have is in tying nodes together in alliance, for the purpose of larger goals. guilds will be the logistical glue, but a guild that focuses on trying to control one place will be a severely weakened guild in terms of political power, wealth, and personal advancement.
The truly large, powerful, influential, guilds will be those that realize guild power and influence is not defined by "owning" nodes. Like REAL guilds in the real world, they will be real source of power and influence behind the curtains of groups of nodes forming nations. a guild that focuses on being an army rather than being a logistics entity, will find it is a very weak guild.
have you ever played mortal online? big guilds run the whole game.
@@yungsofa8084 Mortal Online was a whole other ball of wax. that was free for all with no game mechanics dedicated to penalizing murderous rampages, by anyone and everyone. so that's all that game became. there was no Eve style political intrigue, there was no purposeful pvp. it was just random gankfest-athon central. I am absolutely certain that people that LOVED Mortal Online will be less enthusiastic about AoC.
Is it possible that gankfests will still a problem in AoC? yeah, it's possible. we'll see. At least the game was designed to reinforce purposeful pvp and penalize random ganking. How well that works is an open question at this point. Is it possible that guilds will still control all the nodes? sure, but I don't think it will be as bad as people are fearing, for the reasons I gave. ultimately we'll have to wait and see how it plays out. I'm convinced it will not be in guilds best interest to focus on trying to OWN a node. especially the really big guilds. it WILL be in the big guilds interests to establish relations with various nodes and other guilds. Will they be important to the advancement of nodes? absolutely.
Great video, as always, thanks Doc!
I'll throw my money in with Chibi's opinion; while some big guilds might try to own everything, they're most likely going to run into the smaller guilds with better specced skill trees.
Im waiting to see politic maps like we had in darkfall which has similiar thing to AoC but was more primitive and more pvp orinated :P the politic map changing on weekly basis from what guild/alliance owns what node was fun to watch :P
Depends on what you mean by dominate. Will they have the big Metrolopis nodes and set taxes? yes. Will they dominate the raids? probably. Will they change a Siege to their favor? absolutely. But will they be on every part of the map and dictate how you play the game? probably not. I think there will be 2 Dimensions. One where the big guilds play and one where a solo player can play the game and not be drastically influenced by these big guilds.
@@cdiff07 I know that it will be group oriented and that's what i want. But that does not mean there won't be any solo players. It does not matter which MMO you look at; there will always be a plethora of different Players in Mmorpgs. Some just level every class to max level (twinkaholic), some just do professions and flip the auction house and some just explore the world. That won't change with Ashes even though it's group oriented.
I think it comes down to the server and the guild's pull.
I always wonder without fast travel how can a big guild operate smoothly?
by having people everywhere in the region they want to control who communicate and act organised
Eve online doesnt have fast travel. Seems to work for them
Look to rust, you get horses, helicopters and boats to travel, you setup turrets or towers with snipers to protect a farming location. Rust is small in scale to apc as well so with even more people just think of the systems you could create with what's available
Great vid, we will be a medium casual guild but still keen as regardless!
PS: It might even be beneficial, if there are servers in a region (Europa, NA, etc), that are completely controlled by one big guild/alliance. It might satisfy a need of some players to have someone tell them what to do. Think about it. It might be a theme park server in a sandpark game. The leaders can organize big battles, open dungeons, by changing metropolis node locations, creating PvE zones by just prohibiting PvP in areas and blacklisting dissenters. Basically creating their own server rules and scripting content to their liking.
I would change the server, but there is a demand for servers like that. Giant guilds become giant because people want them. Let them have their server.
I think the most organized guilds are going to dominate.
People are already making discord and gravitate around some streamer to recruit people. It's gonna be something if you start this mmo alone and join a small guild for social...
They make most Gold and dominate the Market and other Guilds trying to keep up, cant compete anymore.
Next point everybody wants to be part of that huge leader so all good player, good organizer will change to that guild. I've never seen a rebellion worked because people wont have that stress at a video game they want to chill and enjoy good parts of their gaming time. 300 Players and then also allys is to easy to hold for big guilds.
12:33 I’m laughing so hard right now 😂😂😂
I Knew you were Naughty !
Haha this is guaranteed to happen, I'm just calling it ahead of time.
@@TheCopiumClinic”you shouldn’t be allowed to attack my guild…. I believe in static gameplay… I like the layout of the server never changing”
Big guilds will absolutely dominate in Ashes. I would be very impressed if they find mechanisms to prevent this that are actually effective. Very unlikely.
Maybe the big point here is just how well or poorly can these large guilds maintain nodes integrity. IF they are repressive, people will simply leave those nodes and they will either stop growing or regress. There is the potential for small but talented guilds to manage and maintain nodes with many other small guilds simply by creating very open frameworks for more independently minded players to thrive in. IF a Node can create player loyalty simply through great management and open access, the players that inhabit it will be far more inclined to defend it.
Big guilds will OWN an area. Defending, maintaining, growing that area and keeping the "peasants" satisfied will be a lot of work though. My hope is: "With Power comes Responsibility". That way there will be big guilds dominating their ZoI, but you (small guild) can escape their domination at any point by moving to a different area, that is not dominated. You can choose, if you want to live in an area, that is dominated by one guild, or you can live in an area, that is contested by multiple medium guilds. Both choices have pros and cons.
Also: Servers will be player-saturated at the beginning. When player numbers go down, after a while, there will be whole areas, where nodes will be much less populated. My guess is, that you might be able to get a node with your small guild in those areas, but still choose to rather stay to be in crowded area, because it will be too hard to manage and maintain a node without enough people living in your node.
There is so much wisdom in all answers here 🙂
On that. I think about running two guilds at the same time. One befinner friendly and one more normal basis.
IMO having the different type of nodes will change how guilds have control, for sure the scientific nodes will have the bigger guilds where they can vote their mayor, but the other nodes where you don't vote for mayor they are where the fun would be at.
The Lannisters don't own King's Landing btw :p
I can’t believe Nyce would do that to your server
What I find funny is even asking the question. What's the purpose? It's like asking if gravity will bring you down if you trip. LOL
this just emphasizes the importance of steven making the medium and small guilds having stronger and more effective guild passives/buffs
no thats dumb. That will be exploited by big guilds by them breaking down to small/medium sized shells of the same guild.
@@jamesray741 just because a system can be abused doesn't mean Intrepid would just let it stay that way, I have faith they could track this sort of abuse
@@klm6004 nah they cant. too many guilds will do it.
@@jamesray741 "nah they cant." 🤣
@@klm6004 i can tell you've never played an MMORPG before.
After watching this, I'm going to (ask to) join Nyce's guild and I'm sure everything is going to be just fine. (After all, what could possibly go wrong?)
I also agree with everyone who said that limiting guild size will be a big factor. Even without that constraint, the Dunbar Number for a tribe that spends nearly half its time on social grooming is 150.
My long experience with (PvE and PvP) guilds in ESO and New World suggests a tipping point as low as 35 active players which is why I've only seen massive guilds in MMOs when the devs ask Content Creators to try out their game. For example Asmongold recently had 1,000 players in the Pax Dei Alpha 2 for a week and has made a number of insightful videos about the experience.
I'm sure I'm not the only one hoping that AoC will finally give us an MMORPG that will achieve stable communities of 150 players.
I like the game of thrones analogy. having a large guild mainly influencing a node and having smaller guilds (houses) of that node fighting under one bamner for the good of their territory. Or smaller guilds being like divisions or legions within a huge army like the romans. You have to play a political game and make sure everyone in the territory is happy. Otherwise, you may get rebellions or set up for betrayal
GREAT vid! Tough subject for sure. I can see poeple wanting this to happen, but with the world size and no fast travel, I can see them maybe owning a few zones but not the whole server. But who knows....as with most anything else...we just need to get our hands on it and play.
The most likely scenario is that every node will have one popular big guild that runs most things in that node.
I don't see mega guilds that lord over a 100 nodes be a thing to be honest. It is just completely unmanageable.
All nodes have different needs, and all guild masters will allocate resources to the stuff they personally want to do, and that won't fly well with other people spanning multiple nodes.
All they need to do is make it so the more a guild controls the more resources it requires. Yea, I know that sounds like common sense. But here's what I mean. If a guild owns 1 node, the resources to manage it are standard like every other guild in the game. But if that same guild owns 2 nodes, then the resources needed to maintain the 2nd node are double what it would have normally been to just own one node. And by double I don't just mean 1 + 1 = 2. I mean 1 + 2 = 3. The second node costs doubled what it normally would. And if the guild owns three nodes the formula would be 1 + 2 + 4 = 7. This means the second node costs double what it normally would have and the third node costs 4 times what it normally would have.
This would solve the issue of a large guild taking over numerous nodes.
not the bardcore remix of five nights at freddies theme lol
Big well organized guilds filled with trusted members will run the game. Big guilds filled with players recruited in chat will get decimated.
Guilds with each profession covered with members willing to help each other level their professions will have a huge advantage. Guilds with members who can be trusted not to expose when they're running caravans will have a huge advantage. Guilds with members willing to fight node wars to benefit the guilds interested will have a huge advantage. Guilds with untrustworthy members recruited in chat will constantly be taken advantage of.
The bigger guilds have the hinderance that smaller guilds do not, with a larger guild population you have a greater chance of internal strife, formation of cliques of people who do not like how things are run, who in turn decide to cause division/strife/turncoat and the possibility of spies/traitors who are working on behalf of the other nodes. Running massive guilds are a time sink of vetting, administering, politics in and out of the guild and losing the skill benefits. This is what is going to make the game epic, reminds me of the amazing 5 years I spent playing Asheron's Call on the PvP server Darktide, I can't wait.
The map is going to be huge and there is no fast travel outside of a science ran node. A big guild may take an area, but they certainty won't run a server. I also wouldn't be surprised if people make mercenary guilds (something I actually want to do). A smaller guild can hire mercenaries for protection. For the right price, of course!
Killer content as always. So many good opinions here.
Thanks my dudes!
The top guilds will probably own a castle and the 1/5th of the map that castle controls.
I love the content, I just can't listen to that background music any second more sadly, my ocd can't handle it. Is that Strauss ? ;) But I'm watching it with no sound and subtitles. Also works
Tchaikovsky
*Large Guilds best players will be busy with Castle Sieges, and guarding Tax Caravans.*
*Node Sieges will be left to the Patron Guild Alliances.*
its not the question "will big guilds dominate" but "big guilds MUST dominate"
the game made with favor to big guild and something like coalition will control the area
also if this game works like albion, capping alliance does nothing because people can do non aggression pact and in albion its a problem that dont have a solution yet
Appreciate you. Your content is Great.
Nice fit on the hat!
I run one of the larger guilds in wow on stormrage it looks like we will be bringing at least one full guild if not two over based in the guild cap. The good news is I am all for people being able to enjoy a game and play. My officers and I have already been talking about how we plan on setting ours are area up. So hopefully we will make an area for people to really enjoy the game and not constantly get ganked. So if you run across “The Gathering of Knights” and need help just ask we will help you the best we can. If we can not save you at your time of need we will avenge you. I am LiteSparrow.
@@captdarkduckie you guys sound great! I think there will be more advantages to cooperating sometimes than fighting everyone.
@@TheCopiumClinic I agree we are really looking forward to the game. Sounds like they are taking the best of all the worlds.
I just feel bad for whichever American server ends up having Thor's group on it(Pirate Software)....
......If you know you know.
i think that people are at least slightly overestimating the amount of influence a guild can have over other people in AoC. just imagine, 300 people per guild, 4 guilds in an alliance, thats 1200 people, while the total amount of players on a full server will be ~50k (to achieve the 10k concurrent cap). thats only 2,4% of the total server population, nowhere near enough, probably not even enough to run one metropolis on their own. maybe they could get a few alliances together and run one metropolis, but like they said in this video, i forsee easy infighting there
Aoc should look at adding the ability to toggle on proximity chat, could add the rp in the mmorpg.
I think once things settle they won't be able to dominate! The fact that anyone can join node sieges it means the smaller guilds and guildless can dog pile wreaking havoc and chaos. That alone will keep large guilds from getting to gluttonous. In DAoC it was always whoever was the strongest was fighting the other two realms and they would quietly work together to knock the biggest realm off the hill. This will happen in Ashes too where smaller guilds have temp alliances. I ran a small alliance in eve for years and yes the big alliances dominated period but that was also because with the way gate travel was you could bottleneck areas and make it easier to have your big fleets react, it shouldn't be that way with ashes the larger the pie they want the exponential amount of players you would need costing more while achieving less gold per person to maintain that pie.
I think a lot of people don’t understand the small guild buffs and what big guilds will be doing with it. The competitive guilds will have a large guild with their regular players and have smaller guilds for their elite players.
People will just min/max the optimal guild size. So, for example, if the "Meta" is 50 people then everyone will just make 50 member guilds.
Love your hat! Where do I buy a “make mmorpg great again” hat/tshirt?
Thanks dude! Got it from Vlhadus' merch store:
vlhadus-gaming.square.site/
I must say, as a F1 viewer your background music triggered me so hard because they always use that one at the end of every race hahaa
Haha I was just thinking about that today
I think big guilds will have a lot of traitors and deal with a lot of espionage. Also one of my goals will be having a small group who are good enough and well stated enough, to fight a much larger group and win.
Keep it up :~)
I think yes AND no, and from several different layers.
The most populated servers are going to see the brunt of it. A massive conglomerate of people that just wash over everything. At that point, the only people populating the server, are the guild itself, in which case "congratz, you win, have fun playing on easy mode moving forward." Which one guy in the video mentioned.. people will get bored, and even in that worst case scenario server, the backstabs and power plays will begin. That server will effectively become its own version of the game, and there's real potential for it to spiral and break apart back into the intended guilds and alliances all fighting each other for dominance. It'll probably move in cycles as one guild or alliance gets the edge and takes the place of the "one supreme guild" and it all starts again.
Then as you get to servers with lower populations, it'll more closely resemble the intended/expected scenario, where its smaller guilds exchanging power. I think it's also possible for things to peacefully stagnate, where different guilds have the land and control they want/can handle, and more or less agree to leave each other alone save for skermishes or problem players here and there. But more importantly imo, this is also where small fringe frontier guilds will start to shine, where a majority of the bigger conflicts involving the bigger guilds will revolve around the metropolis and other top tier nodes, while the smaller tier 1-3 nodes will more or less be left to their own devices. And that's the sort of dynamic that the game will revolve around for those server sizes.
And then as you get to the lowest population servers, they won't have the numbers to support more than a couple metropolises, if at all. On these servers, the gameplay will more resemble roaming warbands, nomadic tribes, smaller but tight-knit communities.
I think it'll take different forms, but something that all 3 tiers of servers will have in common, I think, are the casual and PvE players at the "bottom" banding together for protection and in outrage against the pvp players. I think a few common things in casual social guilds in other mmo's is the sense of community, the sheer disdain that PvE players have for the PvP players, and the few really skilled/ retired hardcore players that decided to be social instead of use their impressive skillset. The community will look out for each other, and the "veterans" will become anchors to teach their community how to play at that higher skill level to help each other out. And from there, guilds will rise to power that never intended to, just out of circumstance. And I really think that will be one of the core elements that will help shake up any oppressive status quos that arise.
can you transfer you char to another server?
Feels bad he didn't ask narc about this topic
Go talk to him about it. I’ve asked him to come on but he says no.
@@TheCopiumClinic dam Sorry to hear that had no idea
When I was on a server in New World called Ferri, a morally bankrupt and overtly corrupt guild "Lost Templars" took over everything and oppressed our server for years. I hope this doesn't happen in Ashes of Creation.
I’m going to create a holy order and act like police lol
you bet your ass they will own everything
Steven has designed this game from day one for large guilds. Large guilds and their satellite guilds will control all level 3 and above nodes. Freeholds produce the best processed goods, thus allowing the best crafted gear. Large guilds MUST control all the Freehold production in their zone of influence to get the best crafted gear and prevent their enemy from getting the best crafted gear. The best processed goods from the Freeholds will not be sold on the open market, it MUST be reserved for guild use only.
Devs need to focus majorly on small scale content and/or things in which every1 will be allowed to participate. Zergs and any other blobbing will fed you up quickly due to lack of personal contribution and certanly not every1 will be GM, RL or even officer. So having some activities that may require that is good but totally shouldn't be a focus otherwise you'll cut out huge audience of ppl and might get another boring niche game with 10k online IMO
If Ashes has any kind of success it will be taken over by massive guilds because there will be a financial aspect to it. Bigger guilds on New World were selling gold to the tune of 10k+ USD per month. If a player can earn a livable income through playing a game and owning a guild they will. It's ashes job to build mechanics that prevent this, not support it.
I think different territories should have different resources and if a guild owns a territory should not be allowed to own another. This forces trade and another political level. One wrong move and poof your attacked by a proxy guild. They also need to have some content meant for various size guilds. I do agree they will prob screw this up and it will become a zerg fest. Which will be downfall of pvp in this game. I think the is why people like factions so much vs gvg in games.
The game has to launch first.
I gotta come in and say that Sunny dude really sounds like he doesn't understand WWII history.
Maybe he's a communist...
Honestly any big guild worth its salt will be seeking out servers with other big guilds so there is competition for them. If this is not the case why are they bothering just to curb stomp less organized smaller guilds to make them selves feel better and then stop playing when they realize its not actually that much fun without competition. Tend to find that most of the big guilds are just full of toxic bung rabbits anyway.
The fact that many of the guilds that formed years back for ashes don't even exist now is quite telling and shows just how transient many players are.
if make a good combat in the game like in BDO, i play in competitive guild (we are top 3 guild in EU small/medium size) basicly destroy big guild with tactics and skill!but for now idk how gonna works that in AoC!Combat for me still looks a bit too slow and mehanics are not perfect!
Of course big guild will be running things to some extent. All the time investment, management of large amounts of players and so on should be rewarded. It will be up to the rest to either accept this guild or create alliances and bring them down. From my point AOC is already avoiding 2 biggest mistakes - having too small of a map/server and having factions. We all saw how NW servers crumbled because of these 2 reasons. Anyone who played Lineage 2 back in the day remember guilds and alliances forming, breaking, rebuilding, all the drama in this and how much fun it was. Having spies in other guilds, gaslighting and stuff. The content was endless.
node allegiance > guild allegiance. If two nodes go to war then their members are at war even if they are in the same guild.
So unless the guild all sticks to one vassal chain there's inherent inner conflict no matter what else happens.
Any guild with coherent leadership will stick to one node when it comes to a conflict between nodes. Any guild that lets a node war split them apart deserved it and was going to fall apart anyhow.
Where is the bald one ? 😭
He keeps telling me no.
What about NArc?! OMG the hate
Tell him to come on. He’s told me no… a few times.
Whaaat thats big sad@@TheCopiumClinic
I don’t see guilds are countries or nations or something. I see guilds as potential political factions within a nation or a political faction that dominates a nation.
Sounds awful. Sounds like being in high school again and having the popular kids steal your lunch money. Why would anyone find that a fun experience? It's not going to be this cool experience they think it is.