Stephen has stated that resourses will not only be in a single location. Sure, it may require travel or learning a different dungeon, but there will be options.
There is no way in 2+ years of playtesting the devs won’t see these patterns surface. I feel like they are willing to change things if it makes the game better. This is how I feel about most “issues” with Ashes from people outside the loop. The no NDA Alpha 2 is going to be seen by tens of thousands of people, over time I think we are going to figure out the things that work and the things that don’t. The concern is that will it be fixable.
Thanks Doc, cheered up my week quite a bit. Personally, I'm hoping to be in a small guild with full, non-population, spec points. "Dynamite comes in small packages" and all that.
In short, based off my experience in Shadowbane and Darkfall 1/2, it is fine if there are numerous dungeons and PvE spots on a huge map. And yes some guilds will not be the kind to share a spot. Roarrior is obviously correct that new spots, or if there are too few, will be chaos and ruthless (I am mostly worried about performance if too many people are in one same area). That said, I am not worried: they are short and odd moments, and add some spice albeit some frustration too. Clashes around new POI create in-game reasons for wars between alliances and guilds, which is part of the game.
Yep, having also played Darkfall I know its all a matter of player to content density. Too many people take the view that the game world is the size of a themepark MMO and that all the hundreds of people simultaniously running a WoW instanced dungeon are just crammed together into a death match. All open world games operate on lower density, which is why it was atractive for developers to make themeparks, they accomadate for more players per unit of designed world area.
@@kennethferland5579 Yeah, to compare it to wow, it's going to be as if all the continents are relevant at all times, instead of the tiny location introduced in whatever the latest expansion is. Players are going to be so much more spread out, and with server populations caps, that's going to thin things out even more. I don't think guilds will even have the manpower to take over everything, so they're going to have to pick and choose what they're willing to lock down.
Nice one! Gonna be interesting to say the least. IF Intrepid does their job right there will be so much other sanctioned pvp that thos won't be a problem. *crosses fingers*
The most powerful solution that noone likes against zerging is friendly fire. Everyone hates the idea of friendly fire in a mmorpg. but good luck tryng to manage a 300 people zerging with friendly fire on. If they manage to do that, they deserve to zerg. But this would totally change the face of pve, with a flavour that pve players usually don't like
@@yungsofa8084 I personally love the idea. PvE would be totally different, but in the way I imagine it it would be better. Dps players would have a totally new skill expression to manage, they would always be strategic in the way they deal dps. And they would be kinda forced to coordinate with other dps and with the tanks etc, so that they can coordinate the highest dps possible without killing each others. I like it and I like the fact that will auto balance pvp in situations of number disparity. Also it can be moderated with some ways to deal less % damage to designated allies, it could be some talent or some buff that you can apply only to a limited number of people
I've always said AoE's must be friendly fire for classes like Mage to live up to fantasy expectations and for their to be any tactics in battle. Sadly it is shouting at a wall for most MMO players.
@@SacredSilence95 Every table top game has had friendly fire for AoE spells from the very begining, and feats to exclude your allies are common, it just comes at a cost.
I think before we know if dungeons are going to be ganked and zerged, we need to see how well Intrepid set up their systems to counter-balance those strategies. People first encountering the dungeons are definitely going to test the waters to see what's worth it vs. what's possible. Depending on how well Intrepid's systems are set up will likely determine the behavior the community settles into.
If 80% of a dungeon is open world and then the 20% (boss battles) are gated in an instanced area it would be perfect. Although I know not all of them will be, but I would hope some of them are. Waiting for a group to clear the boss or die trying is a good way to do things imo
Guilds will absolutely hold down lucrative hot spots as they should but open world dungeons need multiple entrances so it's harder to control, not a single narrow way like the citadel.
They need to have a way to quickly and easily merge parties during a fight. Like if my 10 group is fighting a boss and an 8 group comes by saying they want to help, I as the party leader should be able to invite their party leader and merge the parties in an instant.
It will probably reflect the chaos of society. Some will try and solo it, some will work in a group and happily share with others. Some will work in a group and not want to share, some will purely want to kill others whilst they are distracted. Oh and finally there will be those few that just want to watch the world burn (thinking plague in Classic WoW).
Unless there are unlimited boss spawns with no timer, you bet it's going to be zerged. If the boss has a cool down, that zerg guild wants every loot drop chance.
I could be wrong on this, but i know in several videos you've mentioned node sieges are open numbers, but if i'm not mistaken i think steven said NPC sieges on nodes are open, but pvp sieges are controlled numbers. I could be wrong though
pretty much what i think too. finite loot will only mean zergs will camp longer these zone, and even if they are done with ghearing up from that zone they will just sell these items after
I would some dungeons are gonna be key depending on what type of material you get from it not the loot,. Steven said crafters make the best shit so controlling one of the 5 castles is whats going to be key since thats what gets you the highest rank for your profession. Yes some raids and dungeons will drop good loot but def seems like crafting will be a major key to getting some of the best items in the game. We wont really know till we get to test/play the game on how the open world dungeons will be. But yes big guilds will definitely take advantage of this to the fullest.
I don’t know how dungeons will be, I think their concept has possibilities that are positive or negative. But your format lately where you ask “What if ‘insert negative thing’” is a bit, well, negative. It kinda feels like instead of discussing a mechanic fully and objectively, the focus is on all the bad things about video games we love. And sure, the negative takes could turn out to be the case and should be part of a discussion but framing is important, imho.
While I fully understand people not wanting to be steam rolled (the main reason I stopped trying Mortal Online 2 for example, even though I played tons of Darkfall), chaotic and unfair PvP also creates intense moment of excitement, fear, unpredictability. They can be strong emotional moments and make you feel like you had quite an adventure that session. If we remember we are just players, pixelized, and remain coolheaded, it will be lots of fun. BUT I am of course for all the social systems, safe spots, non-PvP safeguards, etc. to not make it a 100% PvP space (I have been there, and it is a bit too much trust me).
always a pleasure to watch your videos and listening to the thoughts of the community As you are focusing on 1 topic I feel it would be nice that you do also a summary or give your thoughts on the issue To sum up nicely the topic ;-)
Think about the world population relative to number of dungeons. 10k concurrent online likely means half activly farming at any one time, over 85 nodes that 60 players at a time, and their will be multiple dungeons/farming locations in each node, so your down to 7 full parties looking to farm per node, they will fight and some will get pushed off the content but the idea that 300 people camping a location forever is silly, at worst they could manage this only for the highest tier grand dungeons in the game and their are going to be many of thouse. Given what were told will be in Alpha were likely looking at 1 major dungeon and 5 points of interest per node if all the anounced content is in the Riverlands nodes.
when world of warcraft had pvp rules everywhere it was one faction vs another faction with one very important thing, you could not talk to the other faction. I dont want to hear what the people im killing have to say. This could be a problem for this games longevity.
It will really depend on the consequences of being a criminal - they have to be pretty severe to prevent the fears mentioned here. I have led guilds in games where the consequences were not high enough and we killed the server. It did not take long to shut down entire regions of the game and everybody ended up joining us. This whole "the server will gang up on the violent entity" is a comforting thought, but it just will not happen on the scale and duration required to stop server dominion like this without the game mechanics in place to help make that possible.
It will definitely be a gank fest around the dungeons in the non corruption zones. The strongest guilds will take over the area and kill anyone that comes near. At least thats what I would do. haha
I know many guilds that will legit spend some time focusing on making those types of guilds pay the price if that becomes prevalent. If your 300 man guild is all in on the dungeon, who is protecting your node or your zone of influence in general? Who is protecting your caravans? How much fun are you having defending a door while large numbers of assassins and ranged nukers plays gorilla tactics with no objective other than to make your life miserable? Some will enjoy th out of it, but that's not the vast majority nor do I see it being sustainable. Good luck to those who try vs those of us who live to cause Kaos ;)
What happens when later on in the game after a new node hits a certain level like metropolis and a new raid / dungeon opens . How will players do that raid ? I just imagine being a massacre in front of in the area of that new raid because 1000+ players will want to do the raid . Also couldn’t players grief others?
My opinion personally is going to be a resounding no with the only places where you might even start to see that be a thing is raids and World bosses with even then I would still honestly argue no. Sure you might see a guild alliances between multiple guilds of say 30 in each Guild and it's a full combat PVEVP Guild with no crafting sides to it that focuses purely on basically being the guild you higher to go in to any location and get what you need from that location but honestly most skills quite frankly are either going to fall into one of three categories being that first category I mentioned but then there will be the hardcore PVE guilds focused on artisanship including Gathering materials and thus PVE to get the monster specific materials and this will likely be pure PVE because in a crafting Guild you need to have serious manpower to make it work and the transport all the goods and gather all the materials and so on as well as have all the necessary player assets to be able to liquidize in the event of needing to make major transactions with other guilds and to strike different contracts for certain things meaning while they could probably still do the PVE side of things just fine, if they were to fight a PVP guild, they wouldn't have anywhere near enough of the guild Buffs I might even have none that's making them easy pickings for the PVP guilds with small numbers of players meaning if anything I would wager that in pvp, you're going to find that the alliances between multiple small guilds will be the ones that end up winning out over any of the zergs that try running in and winning through sheer numbers. Beyond that there's also the other issues of no extra resources for bringing more people and drastically boosting the difficulty the more people you bring in meaning that especially if the enemies shows up and they have a shit ton of people then the boss just becomes Beyond extra hard and is more than likely going to just wipe everyone there including the Guild that attacked your guild... legitimately I honestly don't see zergs doing much more than just being small annoyances in these sorts of situations at best
1:12 that's the thing though is even if there was one dungeon on the entire server, the entire server is not going to be going there to try to run it for the simple reason of the maps sheer size and everyone needing to be connected to a node as well as who knows how much trouble it is to switch citizenship to the node where the dungeon is in so you can respawn in that node and thus make it actually feasible to try to run that dungeon was there anything a dungeon popping up probably just means the other nodes are going to feel more pressure to try to build themselves up quickly so that way they don't get left behind the nodes where the dungeons have already started to pop up. I honestly think people have kind of been brain rotted to the point unfortunately where when we think of new content, we think of it in the same vein as how it comes to us in ESO for example where you can instantaneously teleport to the first location in that new area and instantly start delving into all the new stuff in there and also get a instant teleport straight to the dungeon and so does people currently are in the mindset of thinking about if there's only one dungeon then surely everyone's going to go run that one dungeon not realizing that no, most people are going to stick to their nose as dungeons aren't even the main content but just a side aspect of the content
1:23 not to be too rude but that's probably because the content creator should be the one who understands the concepts as to why zergs not only won't be a problem but more importantly honestly I probably something new and consider on the entirely opposite end of the spectrum namely being that PVE crafting guilds are going to be the ones who Thrive by having countless players and that there should be some consideration for the smaller Merchant guilds as to whether or not they might even be able to exist or not as it very well could end up being that Merchant guilds without an entire Alliance Network to expand the size of the one single Guild are more than likely to have issues trying to keep up with the massive guilds who have so many players assets to just liquidize whenever they need money to be able to afford everything and to push out all the small crafting guilds.
1:34 the question isn't going to be what stops them though it will at least be a consideration with more importantly especially with your statement just after this of saying a 10-man versus 300 man I think shows another aspect of the lacking understanding about how things are going to work on average is probably going to be more like bear fucking minimum 20 people if not upwards of 30 people and with the guild Buffs and that many people, even if you had a 300 man Guild who constantly stayed outside the dungeon add another 100 guys running in the dungeon they wouldn't be able to beat the Gilda Buffs of the small Guild especially when paired with good Guerrilla tactics to take advantage of their small number of players to whittle down and Destroy everyone defending before being able to just rush in and crush the enemies inside we're probably already getting their asses handed to them for trying to take a dungeon with 100 people and how the bosses are probably already ripping them a new asshole as they also don't have Guild Buffs on top of the bosses getting massive Buffs that destroy groups... legitimately I do not foresee massive guilds even being able to come close to trying to be able to properly fight in PvP and very much so there will be dedicated PVP guilds and dedicated PVE guilds
1:39 by the way just a further reiterate on this point about the smaller versus the larger side of things is that you act as if everyone in the local area isn't going to be inconvenienced by a large Guild blocking off a dungeon and you're acting like it'll be hard to find anyone willing to take on the big Guild when in reality I probably will be pretty easy to just have like 90 players between 3, 30 man guilds who can actually not just feasibly but probably honestly easily take out even a 300 man Guild thanks to the guild buffs from being in small guilds once again I will just repeat that large gills are not going to have the way of things in the combat side and in reality are going to have their way probably with the more economic side but in a way that's not only expected but the norm meaning it's not even necessarily a problem but just the statement of how the economy side will work
2:06 not to beat the dead horse more but again ones and twos and threes aren't going to be a thing with again the smallest Guild size you'll probably see is like 20 to 30 and if they're going to be a combat focused Guild and especially a PVP Focus Guild then you're almost 100% going to see them probably have a full stack of Alliance of 5 yds with each one having roughly that around 30 to maybe 40 players ultimately amounting to over a few hundred players in that total alliance but ultimately with each one made up of small guilds and I do believe that those small Guild alliances are going to fucking Crush everyone on the server when it comes to the combat side to the point that you'll only ever see small Guild alliances even trying to do things like that and in fact more than likely being hired by The non-combat Artisan guilds to do that rather than seeing one giant Guild do that was quite frankly I think that also ends up adding to a lot more of the actual conflict side of things as you can make deals with the guilds guarding to let you threw or to turn on their former employers or to do X, Y, or Z thing in regards to the dungeon..... what's your ashes of creation will not be a solo player or a very small group of friends game and so again just a really stayed at home is that there will not be situations of like 10 men groups who can't get in the dungeon aside from the very rare instances of people who don't actually play the game more than like once a week trying to do that and having to deal with the guild politics side or rather be stopped by the fact that their Guild isn't able to participate in the guild politics side in the first place because none of them put in enough time to have enough knowledge or reputation to be able to do anything or enough people to actually maintain any sort of possible resistance.
Guild, man People in old good Lineage 2 could stomp Dungeon with group of 8 people. I Doubt people even understand what "zerging" would mean in dungeon.
As I understand it, if you bring a zerg to a dungeon, you have a fixed amount of loot to share with the zerg. Even if you successfully rob a bank a gang of twenty people, you still have to split the loot with those same twenty people. That, and the guild system incentivizes small groups of skilled 'underdogs' vs zergs. We'll see how that works out, sure, but I have faith that Ashes will reward skill, tactics, and coordination. I just REALLY want to knock guys like Asmongold on their asses, sit on their chest, and make them watch me eat their Lunchables. All while wearing the bling they thought belonged to them.
I hope there are some guild wasting their time on camping an open world dungeon. Means that they're stifling the progress of their guys outside getting to achieve nothing 😅
they should rethink this idea of massive open world content. There will be massive issues right away with player/large guild zergs. It will turn off ALOT of more casual people. Goodluck figuring that out Intrepid!
You’re mistaken for thinking the games is suppose to be catered to the solo players. That simply isn’t what ashes of creation is looking to achieve. The game is putting emphasis on teamwork and doing things as one.
Steven WANTS player friction. They WANT you to join groups/guilds and build community. They DO NOT want their game to be the current solo MMOrpg like we are seeing now. If that turns off a certain segment, so be it.
I don't agree. I think there is going to be an optimal number for a node, which is going to be somewhere between 200-400. Any more than this number will not be able to be citizens of the same Node/Guild/faction. Any more than this and the node will deteriorate, so that the players lose power and the resources to fight. The bigger your zerg, the weaker it is going to be. I think the game is very casual friendly, because it is going to make the hardcore PvPers play defence. Also an undeclared war attack on a node, is going to have severe death penalties for the attacker, and no death penalties for the defender. Node=Faction, and they want teams in AoC to be equal. It is a team game at every level And if you spend more on housing, in a node, you won't have the room to have as many higher level buildings, it will be harder to level up, it may become corrupted and so on. I think people are underestimating the difficulty level of levelling a node, and keeping at max level. A 100 player "zerg", with 300 PvE casuals back home keeping the Node in great shape, is going to be the most successful strategy, and will be able to fight 3-5 times their number. Then I think a random catastrophe will happen and it will have to be built up again. The real end game will be a PvE and PvP "struggle" to keep the node at level 5/6. That will keep the game alive particularly if the raids and dungeons come back different every time.
@@TheToledoTrumpton don’t forget that players can also squeeze their nodes barren of resources. The more players the more rss demand. Another reason why “zerging” is going to end up causing more harm than good like you said
That too right? Who the heck is going to spend hours camped outside just playing defense while a small number of people get rewards? That gets old real fast and is not sustainable.
Rust player here, you will have 300 man Chinese guilds that will guard every dungeon, not to get the loot but to stop other players from getting stronger
Stephen has stated that resourses will not only be in a single location. Sure, it may require travel or learning a different dungeon, but there will be options.
Exactly, bigger clans get the best spot, but other spots should also be available
A lot of fun! Thanks for having me. I'm ready for round 2!
This is a great way to start the Sunday!🎉
Bob Ross gets me everytime 😅
Dungeons are going to be very interesting during alpha 2 because we know we're gonna have so many guilds that try to camp them out.
This is going to especially be true because of how much smaller the map is and how few the number of dungeons will be in A2.
There is no way in 2+ years of playtesting the devs won’t see these patterns surface. I feel like they are willing to change things if it makes the game better. This is how I feel about most “issues” with Ashes from people outside the loop. The no NDA Alpha 2 is going to be seen by tens of thousands of people, over time I think we are going to figure out the things that work and the things that don’t. The concern is that will it be fixable.
Exactly. People have yet to adjust their brains to how much Intrepid takes feedback and analysis into account.
Another great video, thank you! Very good points made
Thanks Doc, cheered up my week quite a bit.
Personally, I'm hoping to be in a small guild with full, non-population, spec points. "Dynamite comes in small packages" and all that.
In short, based off my experience in Shadowbane and Darkfall 1/2, it is fine if there are numerous dungeons and PvE spots on a huge map. And yes some guilds will not be the kind to share a spot. Roarrior is obviously correct that new spots, or if there are too few, will be chaos and ruthless (I am mostly worried about performance if too many people are in one same area). That said, I am not worried: they are short and odd moments, and add some spice albeit some frustration too. Clashes around new POI create in-game reasons for wars between alliances and guilds, which is part of the game.
Yep, having also played Darkfall I know its all a matter of player to content density. Too many people take the view that the game world is the size of a themepark MMO and that all the hundreds of people simultaniously running a WoW instanced dungeon are just crammed together into a death match. All open world games operate on lower density, which is why it was atractive for developers to make themeparks, they accomadate for more players per unit of designed world area.
@@kennethferland5579 Yeah, to compare it to wow, it's going to be as if all the continents are relevant at all times, instead of the tiny location introduced in whatever the latest expansion is. Players are going to be so much more spread out, and with server populations caps, that's going to thin things out even more. I don't think guilds will even have the manpower to take over everything, so they're going to have to pick and choose what they're willing to lock down.
Nice one! Gonna be interesting to say the least. IF Intrepid does their job right there will be so much other sanctioned pvp that thos won't be a problem. *crosses fingers*
The most powerful solution that noone likes against zerging is friendly fire. Everyone hates the idea of friendly fire in a mmorpg. but good luck tryng to manage a 300 people zerging with friendly fire on. If they manage to do that, they deserve to zerg. But this would totally change the face of pve, with a flavour that pve players usually don't like
That's an interesting strategy. You'd likely have to flag for pvp to enable the friendly fire to trigger so pve wouldn't be affected that much.
tbh friendly fire would make things interesting in an mmo
@@yungsofa8084 I personally love the idea. PvE would be totally different, but in the way I imagine it it would be better. Dps players would have a totally new skill expression to manage, they would always be strategic in the way they deal dps. And they would be kinda forced to coordinate with other dps and with the tanks etc, so that they can coordinate the highest dps possible without killing each others. I like it and I like the fact that will auto balance pvp in situations of number disparity.
Also it can be moderated with some ways to deal less % damage to designated allies, it could be some talent or some buff that you can apply only to a limited number of people
I've always said AoE's must be friendly fire for classes like Mage to live up to fantasy expectations and for their to be any tactics in battle. Sadly it is shouting at a wall for most MMO players.
@@SacredSilence95 Every table top game has had friendly fire for AoE spells from the very begining, and feats to exclude your allies are common, it just comes at a cost.
I think before we know if dungeons are going to be ganked and zerged, we need to see how well Intrepid set up their systems to counter-balance those strategies. People first encountering the dungeons are definitely going to test the waters to see what's worth it vs. what's possible. Depending on how well Intrepid's systems are set up will likely determine the behavior the community settles into.
If 80% of a dungeon is open world and then the 20% (boss battles) are gated in an instanced area it would be perfect. Although I know not all of them will be, but I would hope some of them are. Waiting for a group to clear the boss or die trying is a good way to do things imo
Guilds will absolutely hold down lucrative hot spots as they should but open world dungeons need multiple entrances so it's harder to control, not a single narrow way like the citadel.
They need to have a way to quickly and easily merge parties during a fight. Like if my 10 group is fighting a boss and an 8 group comes by saying they want to help, I as the party leader should be able to invite their party leader and merge the parties in an instant.
It will probably reflect the chaos of society.
Some will try and solo it, some will work in a group and happily share with others. Some will work in a group and not want to share, some will purely want to kill others whilst they are distracted. Oh and finally there will be those few that just want to watch the world burn (thinking plague in Classic WoW).
Unless there are unlimited boss spawns with no timer, you bet it's going to be zerged. If the boss has a cool down, that zerg guild wants every loot drop chance.
Its not a predictable timer.
I could be wrong on this, but i know in several videos you've mentioned node sieges are open numbers, but if i'm not mistaken i think steven said NPC sieges on nodes are open, but pvp sieges are controlled numbers. I could be wrong though
@@BrennonIsMilak yeah I could be wrong too. Lmk if you find the link or quote! They’ve said somewhat conflicting things about castle sieges.
"The Devilsaur Mafia", If there is something to zerg and control in the OW it will be. It's not a question IMO.
pretty much what i think too. finite loot will only mean zergs will camp longer these zone, and even if they are done with ghearing up from that zone they will just sell these items after
I would some dungeons are gonna be key depending on what type of material you get from it not the loot,. Steven said crafters make the best shit so controlling one of the 5 castles is whats going to be key since thats what gets you the highest rank for your profession. Yes some raids and dungeons will drop good loot but def seems like crafting will be a major key to getting some of the best items in the game. We wont really know till we get to test/play the game on how the open world dungeons will be. But yes big guilds will definitely take advantage of this to the fullest.
I play EQ2 (returned after 18 years due to the Origins Server). Guess what, it’s that way.
I don’t know how dungeons will be, I think their concept has possibilities that are positive or negative. But your format lately where you ask “What if ‘insert negative thing’” is a bit, well, negative. It kinda feels like instead of discussing a mechanic fully and objectively, the focus is on all the bad things about video games we love. And sure, the negative takes could turn out to be the case and should be part of a discussion but framing is important, imho.
While I fully understand people not wanting to be steam rolled (the main reason I stopped trying Mortal Online 2 for example, even though I played tons of Darkfall), chaotic and unfair PvP also creates intense moment of excitement, fear, unpredictability. They can be strong emotional moments and make you feel like you had quite an adventure that session. If we remember we are just players, pixelized, and remain coolheaded, it will be lots of fun. BUT I am of course for all the social systems, safe spots, non-PvP safeguards, etc. to not make it a 100% PvP space (I have been there, and it is a bit too much trust me).
always a pleasure to watch your videos and listening to the thoughts of the community
As you are focusing on 1 topic
I feel it would be nice that you do also a summary or give your thoughts on the issue
To sum up nicely the topic ;-)
Think about the world population relative to number of dungeons. 10k concurrent online likely means half activly farming at any one time, over 85 nodes that 60 players at a time, and their will be multiple dungeons/farming locations in each node, so your down to 7 full parties looking to farm per node, they will fight and some will get pushed off the content but the idea that 300 people camping a location forever is silly, at worst they could manage this only for the highest tier grand dungeons in the game and their are going to be many of thouse. Given what were told will be in Alpha were likely looking at 1 major dungeon and 5 points of interest per node if all the anounced content is in the Riverlands nodes.
Love it
when world of warcraft had pvp rules everywhere it was one faction vs another faction with one very important thing, you could not talk to the other faction. I dont want to hear what the people im killing have to say. This could be a problem for this games longevity.
It will really depend on the consequences of being a criminal - they have to be pretty severe to prevent the fears mentioned here.
I have led guilds in games where the consequences were not high enough and we killed the server.
It did not take long to shut down entire regions of the game and everybody ended up joining us. This whole "the server will gang up on the violent entity" is a comforting thought, but it just will not happen on the scale and duration required to stop server dominion like this without the game mechanics in place to help make that possible.
Bee on a spoke
Thank Ye Thank Ye :)
It will definitely be a gank fest around the dungeons in the non corruption zones. The strongest guilds will take over the area and kill anyone that comes near. At least thats what I would do. haha
I know many guilds that will legit spend some time focusing on making those types of guilds pay the price if that becomes prevalent. If your 300 man guild is all in on the dungeon, who is protecting your node or your zone of influence in general? Who is protecting your caravans? How much fun are you having defending a door while large numbers of assassins and ranged nukers plays gorilla tactics with no objective other than to make your life miserable? Some will enjoy th out of it, but that's not the vast majority nor do I see it being sustainable. Good luck to those who try vs those of us who live to cause Kaos ;)
What happens when later on in the game after a new node hits a certain level like metropolis and a new raid / dungeon opens . How will players do that raid ? I just imagine being a massacre in front of in the area of that new raid because 1000+ players will want to do the raid . Also couldn’t players grief others?
You have no idea how much people love to act against their interests. The reward is the tears, not the loot.
How about making guilds max at say 25 people.
My opinion personally is going to be a resounding no with the only places where you might even start to see that be a thing is raids and World bosses with even then I would still honestly argue no. Sure you might see a guild alliances between multiple guilds of say 30 in each Guild and it's a full combat PVEVP Guild with no crafting sides to it that focuses purely on basically being the guild you higher to go in to any location and get what you need from that location but honestly most skills quite frankly are either going to fall into one of three categories being that first category I mentioned but then there will be the hardcore PVE guilds focused on artisanship including Gathering materials and thus PVE to get the monster specific materials and this will likely be pure PVE because in a crafting Guild you need to have serious manpower to make it work and the transport all the goods and gather all the materials and so on as well as have all the necessary player assets to be able to liquidize in the event of needing to make major transactions with other guilds and to strike different contracts for certain things meaning while they could probably still do the PVE side of things just fine, if they were to fight a PVP guild, they wouldn't have anywhere near enough of the guild Buffs I might even have none that's making them easy pickings for the PVP guilds with small numbers of players meaning if anything I would wager that in pvp, you're going to find that the alliances between multiple small guilds will be the ones that end up winning out over any of the zergs that try running in and winning through sheer numbers. Beyond that there's also the other issues of no extra resources for bringing more people and drastically boosting the difficulty the more people you bring in meaning that especially if the enemies shows up and they have a shit ton of people then the boss just becomes Beyond extra hard and is more than likely going to just wipe everyone there including the Guild that attacked your guild... legitimately I honestly don't see zergs doing much more than just being small annoyances in these sorts of situations at best
1:12 that's the thing though is even if there was one dungeon on the entire server, the entire server is not going to be going there to try to run it for the simple reason of the maps sheer size and everyone needing to be connected to a node as well as who knows how much trouble it is to switch citizenship to the node where the dungeon is in so you can respawn in that node and thus make it actually feasible to try to run that dungeon was there anything a dungeon popping up probably just means the other nodes are going to feel more pressure to try to build themselves up quickly so that way they don't get left behind the nodes where the dungeons have already started to pop up. I honestly think people have kind of been brain rotted to the point unfortunately where when we think of new content, we think of it in the same vein as how it comes to us in ESO for example where you can instantaneously teleport to the first location in that new area and instantly start delving into all the new stuff in there and also get a instant teleport straight to the dungeon and so does people currently are in the mindset of thinking about if there's only one dungeon then surely everyone's going to go run that one dungeon not realizing that no, most people are going to stick to their nose as dungeons aren't even the main content but just a side aspect of the content
1:23 not to be too rude but that's probably because the content creator should be the one who understands the concepts as to why zergs not only won't be a problem but more importantly honestly I probably something new and consider on the entirely opposite end of the spectrum namely being that PVE crafting guilds are going to be the ones who Thrive by having countless players and that there should be some consideration for the smaller Merchant guilds as to whether or not they might even be able to exist or not as it very well could end up being that Merchant guilds without an entire Alliance Network to expand the size of the one single Guild are more than likely to have issues trying to keep up with the massive guilds who have so many players assets to just liquidize whenever they need money to be able to afford everything and to push out all the small crafting guilds.
1:34 the question isn't going to be what stops them though it will at least be a consideration with more importantly especially with your statement just after this of saying a 10-man versus 300 man I think shows another aspect of the lacking understanding about how things are going to work on average is probably going to be more like bear fucking minimum 20 people if not upwards of 30 people and with the guild Buffs and that many people, even if you had a 300 man Guild who constantly stayed outside the dungeon add another 100 guys running in the dungeon they wouldn't be able to beat the Gilda Buffs of the small Guild especially when paired with good Guerrilla tactics to take advantage of their small number of players to whittle down and Destroy everyone defending before being able to just rush in and crush the enemies inside we're probably already getting their asses handed to them for trying to take a dungeon with 100 people and how the bosses are probably already ripping them a new asshole as they also don't have Guild Buffs on top of the bosses getting massive Buffs that destroy groups... legitimately I do not foresee massive guilds even being able to come close to trying to be able to properly fight in PvP and very much so there will be dedicated PVP guilds and dedicated PVE guilds
1:39 by the way just a further reiterate on this point about the smaller versus the larger side of things is that you act as if everyone in the local area isn't going to be inconvenienced by a large Guild blocking off a dungeon and you're acting like it'll be hard to find anyone willing to take on the big Guild when in reality I probably will be pretty easy to just have like 90 players between 3, 30 man guilds who can actually not just feasibly but probably honestly easily take out even a 300 man Guild thanks to the guild buffs from being in small guilds once again I will just repeat that large gills are not going to have the way of things in the combat side and in reality are going to have their way probably with the more economic side but in a way that's not only expected but the norm meaning it's not even necessarily a problem but just the statement of how the economy side will work
2:06 not to beat the dead horse more but again ones and twos and threes aren't going to be a thing with again the smallest Guild size you'll probably see is like 20 to 30 and if they're going to be a combat focused Guild and especially a PVP Focus Guild then you're almost 100% going to see them probably have a full stack of Alliance of 5 yds with each one having roughly that around 30 to maybe 40 players ultimately amounting to over a few hundred players in that total alliance but ultimately with each one made up of small guilds and I do believe that those small Guild alliances are going to fucking Crush everyone on the server when it comes to the combat side to the point that you'll only ever see small Guild alliances even trying to do things like that and in fact more than likely being hired by The non-combat Artisan guilds to do that rather than seeing one giant Guild do that was quite frankly I think that also ends up adding to a lot more of the actual conflict side of things as you can make deals with the guilds guarding to let you threw or to turn on their former employers or to do X, Y, or Z thing in regards to the dungeon..... what's your ashes of creation will not be a solo player or a very small group of friends game and so again just a really stayed at home is that there will not be situations of like 10 men groups who can't get in the dungeon aside from the very rare instances of people who don't actually play the game more than like once a week trying to do that and having to deal with the guild politics side or rather be stopped by the fact that their Guild isn't able to participate in the guild politics side in the first place because none of them put in enough time to have enough knowledge or reputation to be able to do anything or enough people to actually maintain any sort of possible resistance.
Guild, man People in old good Lineage 2 could stomp Dungeon with group of 8 people.
I Doubt people even understand what "zerging" would mean in dungeon.
*Ashes is designed for friction to happen.*
*Also, "one guild" can't control every dungeon.*
As I understand it, if you bring a zerg to a dungeon, you have a fixed amount of loot to share with the zerg. Even if you successfully rob a bank a gang of twenty people, you still have to split the loot with those same twenty people. That, and the guild system incentivizes small groups of skilled 'underdogs' vs zergs. We'll see how that works out, sure, but I have faith that Ashes will reward skill, tactics, and coordination.
I just REALLY want to knock guys like Asmongold on their asses, sit on their chest, and make them watch me eat their Lunchables. All while wearing the bling they thought belonged to them.
O.o i just say let Intrepid make the game and stop trying to turn it into WoW!
I hope there are some guild wasting their time on camping an open world dungeon. Means that they're stifling the progress of their guys outside getting to achieve nothing 😅
they should rethink this idea of massive open world content. There will be massive issues right away with player/large guild zergs. It will turn off ALOT of more casual people. Goodluck figuring that out Intrepid!
You’re mistaken for thinking the games is suppose to be catered to the solo players. That simply isn’t what ashes of creation is looking to achieve. The game is putting emphasis on teamwork and doing things as one.
Steven WANTS player friction. They WANT you to join groups/guilds and build community. They DO NOT want their game to be the current solo MMOrpg like we are seeing now.
If that turns off a certain segment, so be it.
I don't agree. I think there is going to be an optimal number for a node, which is going to be somewhere between 200-400. Any more than this number will not be able to be citizens of the same Node/Guild/faction. Any more than this and the node will deteriorate, so that the players lose power and the resources to fight. The bigger your zerg, the weaker it is going to be.
I think the game is very casual friendly, because it is going to make the hardcore PvPers play defence. Also an undeclared war attack on a node, is going to have severe death penalties for the attacker, and no death penalties for the defender.
Node=Faction, and they want teams in AoC to be equal. It is a team game at every level And if you spend more on housing, in a node, you won't have the room to have as many higher level buildings, it will be harder to level up, it may become corrupted and so on. I think people are underestimating the difficulty level of levelling a node, and keeping at max level.
A 100 player "zerg", with 300 PvE casuals back home keeping the Node in great shape, is going to be the most successful strategy, and will be able to fight 3-5 times their number. Then I think a random catastrophe will happen and it will have to be built up again.
The real end game will be a PvE and PvP "struggle" to keep the node at level 5/6. That will keep the game alive particularly if the raids and dungeons come back different every time.
@@TheToledoTrumpton don’t forget that players can also squeeze their nodes barren of resources. The more players the more rss demand. Another reason why “zerging” is going to end up causing more harm than good like you said
It’s the right decision to make PvP available every where
10 people inside and 270 outside is hilariously bad guild management. If they do that, expect 250 to quit the next week.
That too right? Who the heck is going to spend hours camped outside just playing defense while a small number of people get rewards? That gets old real fast and is not sustainable.
Don't underestimate the degenerate behaviour of PVPers. They grief for no gain, except to grief.
@@zepho100 yes and I know for a fact that there are a lot of degenerate pvpers who will drool at the opportunity to harass the dungeon blockers ;)
Can’t wait for servers to get locked down by streamer guilds like asmongold and piratesoftware.
No instances!
Warhammer online. ROR now. It does this type of pvp system well they should look at it
Rust player here, you will have 300 man Chinese guilds that will guard every dungeon, not to get the loot but to stop other players from getting stronger