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MetaZoo: No Players, No Game.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ม.ค. 2024
- Subscribe to Final Trade for more MTG Finance, TCG investing, game theory, economics, vintage and Premodern Magic: The Gathering content. Occasionally I feature modern M:TG, Flesh and Blood, Dungeons & Dragons 5E, HeroQuest, and other game and collecting topics.
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Hey man! This is great content, and I subbed instantly. I am the developer of the Monster Crown trading card game, and I think this channel will probably be a great place to learn!
Much luck to your channel!
On Lorcana's initial release making it too expensive to buy cards to go to events, I have an LGS Owner friend (been around a long time) that likes to call that scenario "Catastrophic Success". He normally sees it a lot more with board games creators (which, you wouldn't think of as being collectible, and if you don't predict demand correctly, you can have a great product/game, that the people who buy it enjoy very much, but ultimately you fail as a company because you're not able to get product to market quickly enough and the units in the secondary market like eBay are way overpriced, to the point where the common gamer is put off by the high price tag).
Thanks Craig, I hope you feel better soon!
RIP MetaZoo.
It will be interesting to contrast the Network Value Model a few years from now when we are are removed from the end of the “Great Bull Market” and more of these new companies are born in a market with higher costs, and less leverage due to high interest rates. The emphasis on “Players” in any TCG market cannot be understated. To your point, when the speculators swing in too hard at the beginning of a game and drive up the price it definitely hurts the potential longevity of the game. This type of market needs a slower burn to build the base and allow time for the cards to become available to everyone who wants them. Hopefully we will see a trend where new games have fewer releases and more focus on player engagement and professional play.
It's all about playability. Period. You have a playable game that is fun, as long as it's not overprinted, it will be successful. Even if the company only releases one set per year.
Exactly right. I saw one piece prices going to the floor last may and said nows the time to buy IF there are players. I went to anime central in chicago and found more one piece players than almost any other game. No players, no game.
IF this is the case then Lorcana to the moon. LOL Too bad it's already declared as a dead game.
@@portalmasterry6765 just like bandai i wouldnt trust disney, when they get the chance they will nuke it to make money
@portalmasterry6765 the thing about lorcana is most but not all of the shops running are dying mtg shops in my area at least. Even at the gencon release asking people wth a huge ton of cards if they're interested in playing said "no". The funniest part is i had this conversation again after a bandai rep sat down with us while we were playing one piece🤣
Add the lack of seals (day 1), print to distribution demand, disney adults (my own speculation), bizarre hosting practices, etc.
I don't think Lorcana will be a great investment. But it will survive as a game because the release schedule gives shops release events and a chance for players to get excited about how the new cards will change up the local meta.
The gameplay of Sorcery is attracting hard-core magic players. I've talked to many of them. Sorcery is slowly building put organized play, I think with the mind set of on set a year it will take time but it will hold on to people. These are just my opinions but to anyone who hasn't built a deck or played the Sorcery discord is alive and well, we'd love to have you.
Hahahahahaha nice joke bro
No, thank you. The allure of Sorcery is the same as metazoo. Old school art. That sweet nostalgia. If I want old school mtg art, I'd buy vintage magic.
I've called it wayback when Rudy was obviously pumping it to his Timmies and when PayMoneyMoney do that stream bit with Mike.
how the heck a new IP obviously nostalgia baiting with OG Pokemon art have multiple cards valued in the thousands during its early release? the price got scalped so hard even LGS say no, ain't worth it chief.
MtG, Pokemon, YugiOh survived because of feasibility of play. People can afford to buy the cards to collect AND play.
Metazoo just downright go the NFT route, pump to the moon, dump it when these Timmies buy the FOMO.
Good job Mike.
Very good analysis.
Rip Metazoo. Also great vid!
A lot of good information here, but I respectfully disagree with pro play as this core component and driver. Pokemon is rip roaringly popular with organized play as a decorative afterthought. The commander side of MTG is huge and lacks any organization. TCG's were insanely popular during the pandemic when there was no play whatsoever. In my opinion, pro play could be generalized into "player incentives" and that could encompass a larger set of player motivations, of which pro play is a singular component.
I am one of those player types who immediately felt shafted after they released a second edition base set after being told I can't play with my first edition base cards. I had to buy the game just to be told to buy the game again just to play with the all of 2 people who gave a crap, all so they could artificially appear as though the botched second edition decision was moving sales.
literally none of that matters. case and point: sportscards
Metazoo: the house that was built on sand.
Great video man! Glad you’re doing well!
While I think you're generally right, let's be clear that Pro Play (world champs, nationals, regionals, etc) are a great aspiration and retention mechanic, but the real lifeblood of the TCG space is local in store play. Don't get me wrong, local in store play can be promoted and enhanced by a pro play circuit (i.e. training for the Pro Tour, aspirations to nationals, etc), but having regular in-store play creates weekly/monthly value for a retailer around the game, helps create and engage the player base (helping plug the holes of the leaky bucket that is TCG engagement) and generally brings more value overall than a single world champ event ever would.
Example: The Spoils from 2006/2007 and their massive $1M pro tour. Similarly WotC's Dreamblade around that same era. Each brought people in for the duration of the $1k/$10k+ tournament - those players often bought their deck/army for the event, played )hoping to spike to a win and $$) then sold off their deck/army after the event. Pro play alone doesn't make a game or players.
This channel is amazing lol, glad I found it
BINGO! Yup, for most card games players are the key. A small to non-existent play network means long term the game is not viable. And Pokemon has more players than people realize -- not on the scale of Magic, but better than anyone other than possibly Yu-Gi-Oh and FaB.
You are very intelligent and good at explaining.
Im not yet familiar with the specifics for Sorcery. I'll need to take a closer look sometime. On first glance though, Im a bit skeptical, as it has parallels as a 'nostalgia bait' game who's selling point is an old-school focus on an existing top-3 tcg (mtg instead of pokemon for Sorcery) with MetaZoo.
So if I’m understanding this correctly, Pokemon is an exception in that collectors play an outsized role. I wonder if other games can thrive in that space as well, or does EVERY other TCG need a player base? I get that an investor based TCG is not viable.
IMO it becomes IP based. Sportscards for example is entirely collectors but if people didn’t actually play the sport than no one cares. Many collectors of Pokémon played the video games or watched the show.
Loving sorcery, long time magic player but I find myself playing and thinking about sorcery much more these days. I’m lucky that my area has over 20 players, many of the flesh and blood crowd play sorcery as well.
Strong video. Need better lighting though bud. Everything feels dark
I'm heavy bagged but you may have one piece wrong. Personally, i think the print runs are overly tight but there are enough players for 4 weeklies within a half hour of me just west of indianpolis. Unless im playing EDH no other game supports that play pattern. Shit, last time i checked i would have to drive an hour to find a game of standard or biweekly shops for 60 card constructed.
Additionally one piece has more media exposure and money flowing into it than almost any other IP on the planet as a whole. Only rivaled by the likes of pokemon and harry potter. Only 1 anime crashed the largest streaming service, crunchyroll, last year. One piece crashed that website not one but two weeks in a row from traffic and even the piracy websites began chugging under load.
problem is its a bandai game, go look at the history with all their card games, just matter of time before its reprinting into the ground or just abandoned and moved on from by bandai
@@mjesus850 Finally someone pointed it out. Do you guys remember Digimon TCG (return) from 2021? It was Bandai's golden goose until One Piece came into the picture. Bandai is going to do the same thing with One piece and nothing from their previous history says otherwise. This has been Bandai's MO and the fact they did it to Digimon is proof that One piece is as risky as any other Bandai TCG.
The new bandai game coming out with JJK is gonna suck those OnePiece players. I don't blame them either JJK is so hot right now.
@@Cheesypoofs101 isn't that union arena
Haha we paid for the owner's Lamborghini 😂😂😂
respect that man who scammed us to get his lambo, he was trying to teach us a lesson
Hopefully he paid cash and it's not on a lease. =p
All they cared about was milking costumers.
You and reserved investments could have an amazing debate on this.
reserved investments is awesome, love his wit and personality
I genuinely worry about One Piece. Their lack of supply (at MSRP) is going to stifle new players. Like nobody wants to give money to scalpers or buy stuff sight unseen from the internet.
I’m pretty sure Lorcana released a statement stating their roadmap for pro play soon. It’s such a good gateway tcg for wives and gf.
I hope the game price stabilizes because my wife and I like playing the game, it’s just expensive to build decks past the starter decks.
Lorcana is print to demand, and the products are not sealed correctly. I have stayed as far away from that game as possible, even though it looks fun.
I wonder if the price is going to come down for all of these side line games in light of this event. Surely people will be getting a little cold feet and wondering if something similar could happen to the game they have their $$$ in.
Oh the irony: the market takes a flight to safety in MTG! =p
The black outfit is appropriate for the occasion.
FaB does in fact have great gameplay and lots of pro play support. But its player base needs to grow a LOT more before the print run sizes are supported.
Metazoo never had the real grassroots player support. It was not interest rates that killed it, it was overprinting. Overprinting will kill all investment every time.
Sorcery definitely seems to have a growing base of real support
Magic is just so convluted with IPs and its own story even. Played heavy for 6years i'm done Aftermath set killed it for me. The game is based on planeswalkers and a sum of players don't even play with them/know what one is.
Yugioh is just so crazy with non rotating formats so thats hard to get into theres no "learning 10 years of meta serum".
Lorcana and One piece are tickling my fancy now a days.
They both streamline good mechanics from more than one game with IPs i enjoy. But Lorcana is more friendly for my female friends as theyre more ambitious to play with disney characters then the overwhelming mtg universe and layers that there is.
Heard of one metazoo tournament never again just a meme. But bandai has a new dragonball ball tcg coming out they have alot of games, bad support for them as well.
You would think people would have understood that a game needs players to make money.
Love your content but I disagree there are more players than investors in most TCGs other than Pokemon. I think Magic is the only game that can say that about. Look at yourself and your audience for example. Heavy bags in Lorcana, one piece, etc and we literally never play
Well, the website didn't support play. I started following Zoo before 1st ed came out. When I was looking into the game I went to the official website. It had an article about grading with Beckett but nothing on any play whatsoever. I actually learned how to play last month and I still couldn't find info for players. This is between the official site and many facebook pages. Zoo had that big event in Dallas and if its the one I'm thinking of they only got like 60 players. They did run some high level tournaments but didn't pay out the prizes they promised players. Zoo had no interest whatsoever in people playing the game. Not sure how they planned to grow that game.
Dan's comment is very wise....
Sorry you don't do Weiss. Great game that has a very dedicated core of players. However I do get sticking to what you know :)
lol they thought everyone knew it was a joke that there would be prizes
Rudy should watch this video
Rudy's patreons should watch the video,
Rudy knows what he is doing,
he was a metazoo partner,
sold the crap to the Timmies
and made his money in a big way,
left his Timmies holding the bag,
and not him.
The Rudy promo cards should have been the tipoff
this game was doomed to fail.
Here is a shitty promo card and mat for a fair market price of 299.99 for my suckers I mean Timmys
@@shermhart7617 I don't think they ever got the mats, held up in customs or something.
It would be interesting to see a video where you compare/contrast the current state of other Pandemic TCG’s like Grand Archive, Lorcana, etc.
Lorcana isn’t a pandemic Tcg it came out in August tf are you saying
I think metazoo people on the bahamas atm laughing 😂
Also NFTs are a huge turn off for TCG players, so by embracing them Metazoo ensured its own demise.
TCG Investments.. maybe put some money in Monopoly to
th-cam.com/video/K7e-lwhG5NA/w-d-xo.html
It’s sooo fun to waste insane money on Pokémon! Rip those packs!!
As someone who sits on a small mountain of Sword & Shield era boxes, please keep ripping!! =p
pump dumpzoo
hope you didnt evaluate sorcery the same as mz. its clear as day mz had horrible gameplay, and it was all investors. at least sorcery people are playing and opening boxes compared to the others were boxes are just hoarded to sell and no one plays.
Sorcery's biggest problems are theming and timing. It's another high fantasy game in a market stuffed full of high fantasy games. And it finally rolled out Beta very late in the downward leg of a long market cycle.
@@FinalTradeexactly! Why play Sorcery when there's mtg(goat) and FAB.
@@MrRayRockstar Because mtg is crap!
out of all these trash games sorcery is the best positioned if they can advertise get the name out same with us players. also its clear theres demand there and people are opening and playing while mz was all about fly by night investors. one piece eventually will be abandoned or ran into the ground based on how bandai handles their card games in the past
Lol
LoL I know this killah has a stack of Bitcoin.
WAGMI