This need to be an autistic mantra...”high IQ does not equal low support needs” If more people understood and accepted this, I suspect there would have been far less suffering in my life (as an autistic female with an IQ of 157, finally diagnosed at 53 years old)
@@SkeletalSculptor *waves* in AutDHD & fellow (post)menopausal. I am a Mensa member (took their test out of sheer desperation in my 20s, over a decade before my ADHD diagnosis) and I have never learned to, among other things, fill in forms. Just looking at a form, especially on paper, spikes my stress level. My mild-ish dyslexia does not help. I was formally confirmed an ADHDer at age 40 and got a working diagnosis of autism at age 53. I have not had the time, energy and money all simultaneously since then to pursue an official confirmation, as I have coexisting illnesses, got divorced a few months after the autism discussion with my neuropsychologist, and my adult son is AutDHD and a wheelchair user and lives with my second husband and me. Solidarity!
I think part of the problem with the old statistics regarding autism and low IQ is sample bias: people with low IQ were much more likely to be diagnosed with autism than average or high IQ people.
It was literally a requirement for most diagnostic centres that the IQ would be either below 70 or at least below 100 in order to diagnose autism. Older data is useless.
One of the issues getting rediagnosed with Autism was they considered me too smart and articulate to be Autistic . These stereotypes have been very harmful to me and other autistic people
@@Autistic_AFI had an IQ test done as a part of updated psychological testing as an autistic adult in my first Fall 2009 as a student at Georgia State University (GSU) Atlanta, GA campus at the Regents Center for Learning Disorders on the GSU Atlanta, GA campus and they stated I have a low normal IQ in my second semester 2010 at the Regents Center for Learning Disorders (RCLD) located on the GSU Atlanta Campus. My former OT (occupational therapist) to,d me that IQ tests aren't accurate and I could have an higher IQ as an autistic woman without an intellectual disability and diagnosed with four other disabilities.
I have a formal IQ of 147. I cannot do anything further than basic maths. Anything else I excel at depending on how my brain feels on a particular day. I play classical guitar to a very high level. I'm a security guard. This, as usual was an excellent video.
I tend to question the validity of IQ tests, just because the less I think, the higher the scores go. I'm not quite as high as you are, but, it does seem rather pointless to have a score in the low 140s, but be some completely clueless about when I need to drink, or struggle to really move forward in life due to organizational challenges.
Same. 59yr old self-dx afab transman here. I work as a department buyer in a small grocery store, but I can step in for anyone in any department to complete any task they may have started (except admin & cashiers) bcz I know that entire store backwards & forwards. I was reading by age 3, writing letters to others before I was 4, & read at 6th grade level by age 5. My second stanford binet score (age 10) was 154 on a test I was actively trying to do badly on. My first at age 7 was 163. Yet I was 20 before I could do word problems bcz of my "too literal" thinking pattern. I cannot recall faces of customers, & was unable to distinguish a pair of heavyset bearded brown-haired, glasses-wearing co-workers from one another for the 1st 3 years I worked there and I'm *related* to one of them. I never really left my home turf bcz I have no sense of direction & I hate talking to people whom I haven't known a few years already. I have a huge phobia of becoming lost bcz I have such difficulty speaking to strangers in strange places often I can't force myself to speak at all. I can even picture myself speaking and getting help, but my tongue stays glued to my palate & my handwriting gets tiny & crowded too. In public, I'm genarally completely dissociated & "operate myself" like a speaking marionette. I don't need a formal dx bcz no services exist in my area, especially for older lgbtq folks.
We have 2 Mensa people in my family, they have told me that over half of the people they met at these meetings, wherent really functional in their everyday life. Many needed help or forgot to eat or didnt have a job at all.. They where all wonderful people, they all had very different abilities, and so many of them struggled one way or another. Having a high IQ is not a gift, it can even be the thing that fucks you over if you arent given the things you need to evolve it. That said they where ll super cool people, very sweet, and very knowledgeable
@Gwenx I am a Mensa officer, past (LocSec) and present (local Gifted Youth Coordinator). I am autistic, not officially diagnosed until age 70. My experience with people who attend Mensa events (about 10% of total membership) is that the incidence of people who seem to be autistic is significantly higher than that of the general population, although by no means a majority. For what it's worth.
I've heard different things from people about Mensa... A friend said he left after some were making fun of people for being "less". You only need a 120iq to join Mensa, so pfft.
@@d-meth There seems to be several different scales for IQ. What I heard was 132 was minimum for membership. Either way all sources seem to agree you have to at or above the 98th percentile.
I have mostly worked at colleges and unis. With the introduction of government money, it’s not a helpful environment. Most people are working for power or to show their power or show their intelligence. I did not enjoy that. I enjoyed much more, the friendship of people with similar hobbies and goals. I compete with myself and don’t enjoy competition with others like in sporting events. So I didn’t like networking as I am autistic and disliked hypocrisy. But there are some good people everywhere and I tried to be careful who I worked for to avoid the weird people. No chance of becoming famous if you don’t want to play their games.
Be Autistic, be really good at something (esoteric and) specific. The system ,''yes, you are brilliant beyond measure, here now, do this impossible thing, again and over again'.
It's also mainly a useful medical tool to assess illnesses since it's extremely sensitive to any degree of physical or mental health issues. PsychometricBros trying to correlate IQ to intelligence always seem to completely overlook this simple fact: a person being ill is not automatically LESS INTELLIGENT than before and being ill is not automatically erasing their past abilities and achievements but the Cognitive Proficiency Index hence the timed subtests hence the FSIQ will all go significantly down when you're ill.
I have various measurements around 140 FSIQ and around 142-146 timed matrix reasoning and around 125-135 cognitive proficiency index in medically administered and school administered tests as a child and as a kid. As an adult, after a full decade of hell with my health (long story short: ten years of brain hypoxia and no sleep) I've lost around 35 points of Processing Speed, which shows in anything I do, sports, videogames and reading speed included: I have a lot of previous benchmarks from standardised tests in sport and videogames plus some previous tests administered either at school or in medical settings I can use to compare my abilities from when I was whole and I knew from my real world everyday experience that my processing speed and my visuospatial working memory were slowly being destroyed by illness; when a new psychometric assessment told me I lost 35 points of processing speed I was unfazed, I expected such a result. The psychometrist tho? Wow, she was almost going crazy. Idk what her problem was, she wasn't having it, she couldn't accept the idea that the test would VALIDATE MY REPORTED SYMPTOMS and further demonstrate what I had been lamenting for 10 years was actually completely and perfectly true (as other real life benchmarks had already demonstrated) so she tried to challenge me because she didn't accept her Ego being wounded by real life showing her that a psychometric tool is not a valid way to gauge a person's intelligence throughout their whole life. No, her test HAD to still give me the same results I had as a child, FUCKING BRAIN DAMAGE NOTWITHSTANDING. Gurl: go to therapy, psychometry is not a Law of Physics, it's just a descriptive statistical tool, OF COURSE performances are going to vary!
@@Jules-kp7rw thank you. Honestly I don't feel so bad about it because I suffered way way more for the physical symptoms of cardiorespiratory deficit: I used to be an extremely active person and an agonistic athlete and becoming physically handicapped as a youngster really damaged my psyche.
@@HarryPotter-kb7we That's why widely used, professional IQ tests like the WAIS-IV or WISC-V are divided into different domains, each representing specific aspects of cognitive abilities, such as verbal comprehension, working memory, perceptual reasoning, and processing speed. When there is a large discrepancy between scores in different domains, a single IQ score may not accurately reflect overall intelligence. In such cases, professionals focus on the profile of strengths and weaknesses across these domains, rather than relying solely on the composite IQ score as a measure of intelligence.
I made an autistic friend! She’s having a hard time with the interview process, but is pretty confident she could do the actual job duties just fine. I thought of how you said you might make a video about successfully passing interviews as an autistic job applicant, and wanted to drop a reminder.
In the 80s i went for a job as a shop Assistant at c&a ..i was sitting in a chair opposite a high court like ,3 meters high..4 people looked down at me ..one was a psychiatrist.....but i looked very avantgarde ..and i would have hated the job and i know one month before running of.....😅
I struggled with interviews too. I applied twice and got interview twice. One for more senior position the other slightly more junior. The first interview I went in masked, awkward and struggled. The second interview was bout 3 months later. In the 3 months I had many interviews. I'd gotten tired of masking and so this time I didn't mask. I went my full autistic self. Not masking I could answer the question better, in great detail. I got excited answering the questions and some where directly related to special interests, masking I suppressed that and really messed up the question. I got the job. A few years later I was recruitment team and HR lady was there too. She told me I was strangest interview she's ever done as I seem from the first to the second interview to be 2 completely different people. She said my confidence level in fist was no existent but the second I was completely confident in my ability. Learned masking can be the worst thing to do in and Interview after that. Focus on the job were there is hint even of special interest and let that enthusiasm and confidence shine.
@@chrismaxwell1624 my partner almost didn’t get hired at first because the manager thought she was “fake” during the interview. But no one else applied so they eventually hired her. She was by far the best employee they’d had in years.
The only time I had my IQ "measured" was on first year of medical college (as a nurse student). It was on a psychology class somewhere late in the year, and the new teacher began her work from introducing us to the concept of IQ. The whole first hour was just us completing the test, and on second hour we were discussing results with her. Thing is, a lot of my class mates got pretty low scores (like 70-80 range). In my town this college was known for being a place where parents direct their "stupid" kids when it's clear they won't do much better (along with the college that prepares cooks). So a few kids were upset about sort of getting verification that they're dumb. Should note here that most students enroll there at ~16 years old by skipping couple years of school, so most of us weren't fully adult yet. So the teacher tried to comfort those kids, saying that the whole point was to show us that the test was outdated, flawed and didn't measure all the important stuff like compassion, empathy, etc etc that might've made them consider a future of a nurse in the first place. She said that the score of our group was even above most that she's seen in past years, and that it's generally expected of "nurse-type" people to score low. To that point I was listening to her without knowing what my score was. But then to prove the point she just passed me my result, saying something like "and here's another proof that this test is completely broken and doesn't measure correct things - some people score unrealistically high, especially compared to performance in classes". My list was passed down through a few tables, classmates obviously checking it out with a mixture of surprise and laughter. I scored 138. And honestly I thought she was totally correct that the test was bugged. Because I struggled a lot during the whole education process. I rarely had good grades in school, except maybe biology and informatics, foreign languages and maybe a bit of math and geometry too. And the whole first year of college I was just that weird kid with some obvious social underdevelopment. Like, literally some classmates felt the need to grab my hand and help me cross the street because they for some reason thought I was like 4 year old that could randomly run under the car for no reason. I had no clue why. I had no idea I had autism back then. To my knowledge I was just weird and maladaptive in any human environment. But that day when my "obviously randomly broken" result was used to show those folks that their results aren't that bad after all kinda left me with mixed feelings. I wasn't emotional much those days, so it didn't really made me upset. But on one hand I was curious who the heck I could score that high at random when I didn't even understoon some of those tasks to begin with. Was I really that lucky to just poke at correct answers whenever I had to guess? Then on the other hand, I never really considered IQ test as anything legit and never considered re-taking it either. Not sure if I'd score lower or higher now. Probably won't ever now. To be honest, I don't need a test to know that I'm good at useless things and absolutely terrible at some things that most people don't consider a challenge to begin with.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST I don't agree with this reading. I think she wanted to show that people are all different and it doesn't say that intelligence equals how valuable you are as a person or how necessarily well you must perform in school or on a test, but she just handled it poorly.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST I wouldn't call her a bully, I mean... she wasn't a bad teacher, we weren't even on bad terms with her. And it was served more like a friendly joke, like it wasn't secret for anyone including myself that I failed a lot on some disciplines. Tbh she could've even say nothing and just show my result silently and it would still cause mass laughter. But then again, it was in Russia back in early 00s, so things like boundaries, politeness, etc worked differently there. Like, no one even considered it could feel weird for students to get their IQ scored openly discussed among the class. Some were refered to as variations of dumb for the rest of their years in that college. But no one really thought it was out of place because of all the stuff that was wrong with this place, that one the least severe for most.
I’ve seen you on another autism channel an older gentleman, real nice guy. He reminds me of me but an older version I’ve seen your picture. No one else has that picture I don’t remember the name that was associated with the image but that face I remember all I can remember is the previous comments that you had made were very true and very rightand that you were nice but some of the stuff you were pissed off at I can’t remember which things but the subconscious in my brain is telling me I’ve seen you before
I was diagnosed with Autism, adhd, and Dyscalculia last year at the age of 32 after a lifetime of mental illness misdiagnosis and overmedication. In Highschool, my score was 136. I was failing classes left and right though and eventually dropped out Senior year. In elementary school, I would check out SAT and Mensa workbooks and do the tests for fun. I read the dictionary and would beat my mother and her friend who both had master degrees in English and taught elementary english in scrbble so hard on a regular basis that they made a rule that they were allowed to use a dictionary, but I wasn't. In elementary school, I was so incredibly bored. It went way too slow, and I understand the other kids didn't catch on as quickly, but every time someone raised their hand cause they needed clarity, I would just zone out in boredom and start drawing in my notebooks. All of a sudden we were on the next subject and I didn't learn anything else from the previous lesson and I even had to ask the people around me what subject we were on next. Every grade level, I was asked by at least one teacher to please stop raising my hand to answer because the other kids just didn't try cause they knew I would have the answer. I was about to fail the 5th grade and my teacher brought my mom in for a conference to talk to us about it. He asked me why I wasn't doing my work and why I was failing. I didn't have the wisdom I have now, so all I could say was that it was too easy and I get bored. I looked at them both as they looked at each other before bursting out in laughter. They didn't believe me and teased me about it. At that point, I stopped trying and I started turning into an angry kid, which just got me put on more mind numbing medications that caused hallucinations, making me be put on antipsychotics, which made me a foot shuffling, drooling husk of a person by the time I was 12 years old. That behav was deemed "depressed" and so I was put on anti-depressants, and with all of my anxiety from being on all of these medications, being undiagnosed autistic in a neglectful adoptive home without my siblings, I was put on anti anxiety medications, then I was excitable and couldn't sleep so I was labeled as an anxious, bi polar, depressed, schizophrenic with mood disorders before I was a teenager. Oh yeah, I forgot the sleeping pills too cause I had terrible insomnia.
Omg, I think it is so horrible when children are forced to take meds like that. Older children do have the mental capabilities to understand logical explanations, so they should have a say in these decisions because some of those meds do have long-term side effects, especially in younger people who are still developing.
Sad that you were so let down by the system, especially since you are only around my age. I think the age you are diagnosed, as well as the resources available in school can make a world of difference.
I did the Mensa IQ online test and got 130. I thought I would have been around 80, but this test is all about pattern recognition and I found it somewhat easy until the very last questions. I remember doing my exams at school and there were so many distractions like you have mentioned; buzzing flickering lights, pages turning, pencils scribbling, whispering, it was sensory overload. While I got all A's and B's in papers throughout the year (time on my side, and a quiet setting), I got a D+ in my final exams; I knew it was coming and I was gutted. I was so distracted by the noises in the Gym setting with 100+ students that time was up before I even completed half of the questions. I had to read every question 2-3 times with all the background noises. Everyone was shocked by my grades, and I didn't get into any of the Universities that I wanted to. I ended up going to TAFE and didn't manage to get to Uni at all. In Chinese culture it's all about EQ, and I failed even more at that being Autistic. Great video Mike.
I stink at those visual pattern recognition tests. I'm good at other kinds of pattern recognition, like languages or psychological. But they don't test for that here.
"in Chinese culture it's all about EQ" - would you care to explain what you mean by that? It's the opposite of what my superficial impression of the Chinese culture is.
I took a mensa test in 8th grade and didn't quite pass. Took it again in a quiet, comfortable environment and more than passed. You're absolutely right, accommodations matter. 'Built different' is a phrase people use to try to say they're special or somehow superior in some way, but in our case, we actually are built different, at least in this context lol
@@anniestumpy9918 Emotional Quotient. The less you are affected by emotions in business, the more successful you will be. This links together with 面子 (miànzi) (Face, or saving face, a term in western culture borrowed from the Chinese), which refers to a sociological concept in general linked to the dignity and prestige that a person has in terms of their social & business relationships. Saving Face sends you down the rabbit hole of Narcissism and High Masking. It's all about looking good. If you haven't made it, Fake it (mask) until you do because nobody will succeed if they're not living in the mansion on top of the hill, driving a Bentley, and carrying the latest Gucci handbag (or whatever is currently trending). And then we are back at EQ in order to maintain and control and/or compose ourselves while we are climbing to the top of the ladder.
I am autistic. I have been tested as a kid and scored around 143, with a disharmonic IQ profile, my working memory sucks ass, and that seems to be correct in practice. I am an idiot one day and highly functional the other, depending on how my energy levels and stress are. I can, with some practice, score super high on all kinds of tests and end in the highest segments. For anyone with a high IQ, it doesn't mean squat in life. I struggled in school, don't know how to make friends, can't keep a job, don't know how to grammar, but everyone made sure to remind me that I was the smartest guy in the room. Much good did that do me :P I found some balance later in life after I received professional help, and I am happy, but it was a rocky road. [edit] People around me based their expectations on my IQ, it put a lot of pressure on me that I couldn't meet. I don't blame anyone for this but as a kid this was horrible.
I can relate. My family would get angry at me because I failed their expectations for me. I was supposed to get rich and famous for my gifted kid talent! 🙄
Relatable, and I have several children who are like this. They are deep thinkers, but working memory can be severely challenged. I, too, often find myself thinking about myself and them, ‘how can I/they be ‘so intelligent’ in some areas and so ‘lacking’ in others. It’s intuitively confusing, even though I’ve read extensively about it. Sometimes, I imagine it’s like a racing video game where the ‘units’ of attributes are zero-sum, and ‘abilities’ are simply distributed differently. However, some individuals have more to work with than others, and there are various types of vehicles (drag racing cars, vans, dump trucks, etc.). It’s challenging to be any kind of vehicle when the expectations and demands of life seem mismatched with what you are. And don’t forget, it matters greatly what the vehicle has ‘been through.’ Cheers
Multiple choice questions written by neurotypicals are only written for neurotypicals. I have follow up questions to their multiple choice questions and aren’t allowed to ask them. So now I have to guess how the person who wrote the test (who I don’t know) thinks. How is this a measurement of what I know? It’s not. Did they mean to try to trick me with one word or did they just word it badly or ambiguously because they are neurotypical? Who knows.
This so much! Though I struggle the most with open questions, especially "fill in the blank". Because I feel like there's always a correct way of filling in the blank word, but the possibilities are endless. Given like 4 things to choose from I don't have to play mind games with whoever planned the test. This was my experience with learning languages at school. Perhaps if we had had similar with other subjects, I would have struggled more, but we were mostly required to write essay responses in high school. But yes, totally get how the wording can be ambiguous. The questions for ND diagnosis are just the worst.x)
OMG yes, unless it's math I hate multiple choice questions. Let me write 3 paragraphs making sure I got my point across or else I'll walk out of the test very stressed and confused about possibly answering wrong by misunderstanding the question/answers. Probably still get a good grade but die inside a good bit too
I find that because they are written for neurotypicals they don't have the kind of wrong answers I would get as an autistic so that absence of the kind of wrong answer I would get shows me that I'm wrong so I can redo the problem and gives me an advantage.
I have an IQ of 160, but I never fitted in anywhere. I'm very academically successful (2 stem degrees, 2 law degrees, top grad in all of them), but I'm not a team player because I've never found I team I could relate to. I'm essentially unemployable, because I won't follow rules and instructions that make no sense, and my brain keeps escaping from anything I find boring. I spend my time absorbing huge amounts of information and building the biggest possible big picture. I can lecture at a high level in many fields, and can integrate them into a coherent whole. However, no one else seems to believe that this is humanly possible since they can't do it themselves, so people rarely believe what I try to explain to them. Over time I've discovered that seeking truth and being right is not a survival strategy. Belonging is a survival strategy, and that's what I can't seem to manage. Belonging involves compromising intellectual integrity for the sake of tribalism, and I'm allergic to that. It was either Bernard Shaw or Oscar Wild who said that if you're going to tell people the truth, make them laugh, or they'll kill you. I still stick to the truth because I'm hardwired that way, but over time it's cost me most of my human relationships. Fortunately my partner is similar to me and does understand what I'm talking about, so I do have one meaningful social connection.
I’m very similar. You explained it perfectly. A similar partner is the extent of my sociability, and I am unemployable for the same reason. Great explanation of this situation, and I wonder what this looks like in men. People tolerated my father’s behavior at work out of respect for his abilities. I think for us this is that archetypal phenomenon of men being allowed to be eccentric. But not women. He did go along with (but not quietly) the bureaucratic and social expectations that seem intolerable to me, but his work was in his special interest and would never want to be disconnected from it. He was very lucky, I am the opposite. Having some of the common physical comorbidities (undiagnosed/untreated for decades) negatively affected my ability to sustain function. Now at 60, I see almost all as quantifiably lost. Thanks for the unexpected validation.
When my social worker first visited me, she brought a colleague who deals with learning disabilities, "because autism is a learning disability"*. Neither of them had a clue about autism! The only really useful support I've had is from Mencap, who have a support service in my area for people with autism and/or learning disabilities. I've met almost all of the team, and they all understand autism (and ADHD), and know the difference between autism and learning disabilities. Unfortunately, they are funded by an outside organisation who seem to be bureaucratic box tickers and don't have a clue about either. * I'm autistic, and good at sarcasm!!!
That's good news about Mencap. I've heard mixed things; from great to 'um' and it seems to depend on whom is in the local branch. I'm totally happy that they understand AuDHD - that's 'more than half' of the battle, imo! Take care! Mike
Random note: I just noticed something about your videos that made me hold a 10-minute silent speech to my nearest wall: Your videos are actually comfortable to listen to. Most videos where people are sat in front of a camera talking about a topic, reacting to videos, teaching a software etc. don't bother at all with trying to make their voice pleasant. Every sentence they say might follow the same melody without any variation. They'll include pointless rambling and cut out purposeful silence. AND THEY DON'T BOTHER AT ALL WITH CLICK REMOVERS. Mouth sound removal is such a simple thing, such an easy thing to do with any proper video editor. De-esser as well. Completely automatic. And yet they just can't be bothered. And then they'll smack their lips after every single sentence as if to spite me. Point is, I'm so thankful you take that bit of extra care.
As an ADHDer who likely has autism as well, but no hypersensitivity to sounds apart from phases of _intense_ stress (I'm more hyposensitive usually), this video was honestly a bit too calm for me😂 I've noticed with a lot of autistic creators that I struggle to listen to them. The ADHD creators are more my cup of tea. It's interesting to see the differences in preference between the neurodiversities.
My completely intuitive hunch about the IQ curve of ASD individuals (as it is currently distributed) is that those in the middle 80-100 can pass more easily as NT. Likely they weren't identified early in life due to learning difficulties nor have they had the intellectual curiously or self awareness to learn about ASD and actively seek diagnosis later in life. Therefore the center part of the curve is missing because those individuals do not receive formal diagnosis at similar rates. I assert that middle IQ autistics absolutely exist but are not represented properly in the statistics. My feeling is that those individuals need relief and support as much as anyone else on the spectrum. They deserve answers to the questions they likely have always had about their daily struggles.
I'm now thinking when I talked with a student counceling psychologist at the uni. I had good grades at school despite being absent *a lot*. She saw as one of my problems that I lack studying skills, as I never needed to work for my grades. But she told me that future employers will likely prefer someone who has average grades from the uni, they tend to like that more than good grades. I'm at least predominantly ADHD, so turns out I have no problems with this, after all I never finished my master's thesis. /s And being self employed grades are no issue either way. It was just about the understanding how the society prefers average. And that's ok, was just thinking about the point of passing more easily as NT. (I was eventually aiming for a career at the uni, as I loved doing research, but guess the ADHD got the better of me. Anyway at a university good grades are 100% an asset, if you wish to continue past master's.)
That was exactly the question that came to my mind when I saw that. Is it possible that there is a group of autistic people that fits those IQ scores, but has fallen through the crack of diagnoses? Would not be the first time entire groups were to be largely missed... But it is a hypothasis and I have no means to prove or disprove it.
I am a diagnosed autist with a PhD in molecular biology and a thirty+ year career in biomedical research, but I cannot do mental arithmetic, at all. I never know if the change I am given is correct or not. Given a pencil and paper, my mathematical skills are reasonable for a professional biologist, probably a bit above average for the general population.
I have a similar issue, I can't even do simple mental math. I couldn't remember multiplication tables. But, I also can't make myself find math interesting, so it's actually painful to try ( I'm Autistic+ ADHD, and that's the ADHD interest based drive keeping me from learning more things).
So good to read that, my son is struggling with mental arithmetic, but is very bright, great memory and wants to me a biologist (interested in genetics).
Maybe you should look into aphantasia, if you haven’t already. Especially if you also have problems with ‘visualizing’, remembering people’s faces, or assigning names to them. It’s a lot more common in autistic folks, 38% I think.
@@Iminyourwallsanditscozy I am fairly accomplished at drawing portraits in pencil and ink. I have extremely good facial recognition skills. My problems are very specifically limited to mental arithmetic, which, since the invention of pocket calculators, are now minimal.
This has been a major issue in my life. I'm at the extreme end of things at tested IQ and can do things, such as pattern recogintion, so fast it freaks people out. My executive functioning, social skills etc etc are abysmal. Being born in the 70's I went through school with the assumption that I would just glide through life on my "intellectual ability". The pressure an me was intense, not a thing I would wish on anyone. I'm glad these things are better understood, no doubt there's much more to do, I like to think young people now have a fighting chance to be supported through education based on their personal needs.
I was born in the 80s, but otherwise the same story. I think some of it comes down to IQ tests being a "test" in the school sense rather than a measurement of a single property. It's a set of subtests intended to evaluate certain skills, but both how those skills are tested and which skills are considered significant to the test are decisions rooted in socioeconomic context and with a lot of assumptions. So on the one hand which skills are considered "part of intelligence" is not a culturally-neutral or class-neutral judgment, and on another the tests seem to take things like executive functioning for granted. I've talked to a few psychologists (friends, family and colleagues) who said that overall "IQ" is basically useless, but unusually large differences among subscores can indicate some neurodivergence or point of struggle.
@@M_M_ODonnell I fear, and feared when I was at school, that this approach works only to the benefit of those who value personal gain over any meaningful social awareness. During the times I've been an "achiever" as an adult I've been in constant conflict over what I consider to be basic decency. As you say, IQ is a very limited measure that is taken out of proportion by many people. It is oh so easy to "Barnham" your way to success if you see things early that most others do not. Limited prescience is limited, but beguiling when wielded. I am not sure who I may have become if I lent into shutting down empathy and embraced the prejudices our society is built on. We, as ND people, have a different perspective on the world; embracing diversity must include rejecting elitism in all it's forms. It feels very much like a lot of the strange rhetoric we are seeing, on most fronts, are an attempt to keep us divided through categorisation. Abelism is alive and well. I'm proud that there are places to be found in the ND community, along with many others, where this is being challenged. Thankyou for taking the time to reply, it's comforting to be heard. It often feels to me that these are things we can not change, whilst there is recognition and light there is hope. Ni laboras por la homoj kaj la mondo, la espero estas delikata kaj altvalora.
@@steveclews1818 Part of my usual response is insisting on not referring to IQ as a "measure" _at all_ -- exactly because it's not a measurement of an existing property, it's a selective grouping of certain traits into a single category of questionable validity and writing tests nominally linked to subsets of that category where the primary concern is producing a normal distribution of scores. When it's useful at all it's by accident, and it's hard not to suspect that the tendency of the scoring to particularly value middle-class and upper-class Western neurotypical people is to a significant degree either deliberate or deliberately uncorrected.
@@M_M_ODonnell I was bought up in white, middle class, family. It may well be a part of why I was able to score so well on IQ tests. My father put a lot of value in them and spent a lot of time teaching me his way of thinking. A lot of it was based in engineering and useful, I suspect a lot of it was teaching me to mask effectively. It is truly rare for people and institutions to change things which benefit them.
not you actually getting up a tree😭😭😭 man your videos always bright up my day I can't explain it but they make me feel hopeful about my life, maybe because I haven't found any autustic friends in real life and because your videos make me think "well maybe I'm not so dumb?" or "oh so this was totally normal?" I appreciate it:)
Thank you for your vulnerability and the time and work you put into your great channel! I’m sure you are helping many beyond just myself. I was formally diagnosed this year at age 36. Tested high IQ during my evaluation, but I look around and life seems easier for most people. Learning I had higher IQ felt equally empowering and discouraging- how could I be ‘so smart’ and ‘so bad’ at most daily / practical things? I have a loving wife and wonderful neurodivergent children. I often remind them that they are fine-tipped paint brushes expected to sweep floors, but you couldn’t paint the Mona Lisa with a broom. Fun fact- apparently DaVinci was also notorious for rarely finishing anything he started, even when paid a commission. Helps me feel slightly better about myself, but I still have a family to provide for. Well wishes to all.
Great video, as part of being diagnosed with a Learning Disability in school I was given an IQ test, this showed a verbal IQ of 140 and a written IQ of 115. so I had a learning disability while also being „above average“ intelligence. This confounded many teachers. IQ and the relationship with IQ is also very complex and not linear. Additionally I’m pretty certain that I am also autistic but still trying to get a formal diagnosis
I'm really enjoying your vivid similes and metaphors and unique twists on idioms in this video. :) They add to your explanation, with useful and interesting juxtapositions. I appreciate all the work you put into your videos. Thanks for sharing.
I agree. Mike is my favourite person voicing his thoughts on autism and neurodivergence. Not only because of his love of cats but mainly because of his ability to understand what needs to be communicated, his ability to analyse and think critically and avoid the need to come across any certain way on today’s social media paradigms. So pleased he is able to do what he does. Long may it continue. 🎉
Yeah, it's the lack of representation for self identified autists that gets me. Those will generally (necessarily?) sit in >70 IQ range. Meaning, not learning difficulties. The other thing that I'm struggling with is the 'autism mom' push on 'Profound Autism' which intentionally limits and subdivides autism not into two categories, but three! =50 & 70IQ autistic groups.... Thanks for being here as always, @ZSchrink!
Ha, I just watched Quinn's video about giftedness today. Interesting that you guys posted these videos so close together. Excited to watch this one, too. EDIT: For those who aren't familiar yet, Quinn's channel is called Autistamatic, and the video I mentioned is called "Young, Gifted, and Lost."
I had no idea that Quinn and I coincidentally overlapped! We didn't collaborate or even discuss these topics with each other, so that's kinda fun! I enjoyed his video on giftedness, too!
@@Autistic_AF Great minds think alike. 😀🌈♾️ (I still get a smile when I think of the giggling footage you guys included in that video where you hung out together on a park bench.)
I don't like mental acceleration being called giftedness because it isn't clairvoyant powers, telepathy, or precognitive abilities which would be 'gifteness'. With that or assumed to have others get preferential treatment at your expense and can attract narcissistic abuse by professionals who think they can get away with almost anything weaponising. There may be class bias in IQ testing when doing the tests. I had a WAIS test in 1988 when I was in a day clinic trying to deal with childhood trauma. They lied to me and put my medicine on maximum dose of carbamazepine in addition to ethosuccimide immediately before the IQ test. Likely too scared that a person from a working class family could get an IQ within the above average/mentally accelerated range against the stereotype of the working class. That bias magnified when autism is included meant no matter how I done it wouldn't been good enough to score a lot higher than the average score. Not really ethical to get a person intoxicated on strong central nervous system depressants just so an autistic person can score lower on an IQ test.
Mike, you are so adept at putting a point clearly and succinctly across while also being witty, and this is why I love your videos so much. Exams were always a nightmare for me too, the sensory overwhelm of hearing every tiny noise from other students breathing (how very dare they!), the scratching of pens on paper, to the ticking of the clock on the wall. It was enough to completely distract me from concentrating on the questions and the answers I was supposed to be writing. Also, a person's worth being measured by a written IQ test has always greatly annoyed me. As you so rightly said, there are many different ways of showing intelligence and being intelligent.
ok, so hang on- I'm confused: Generally in the US they separate things like dyslexia and dyscalclia (learning disabilities here) from intellectual disabilities (IQ/intelligence/function here). At least that seems to be the public perception that most get that words and numbers not staying still is a different matter from general smarts. I may have this perception because I have mild dyslexia, severe dyscalclia, and test an average of 144 IQ. (first tested in 3rd grade to figure out what was wrong with me. Dude determined I was extremely gifted, bored, and very annoyed to be missing saturday morning cartoons for stupid tests, and just wasn't applying myself. I'm sure today they would have pinged me as AuDHD and saved me much grief, but in the early 1980s in Arkansas that wasn't a thing *sigh* Neither was dyscalclia. I still have trauma.) I'm probably just having a cultural language barrier misunderstanding here, or a nit-pick, as I can tell we're overarchingly on the same page as usual. (and yeah on the Unpredictable Gifted Spiky Skillset being a pain)
I’m from the 1990s and even during my time. They just thought of autism as somebody who rocks back-and-forth at least in my neck of the woods. They only diagnosed me with ADD, and dyslexia auditorial processing disorder and said I was slow. Funny thing was the teachers were always confused. They don’t know how I figured out the answers on my work. I would somehow do math in my head that I hadn’t learnt yet and the teacher would look at me and be like how did you get the answer? If you can’t tell me, I’m gonna flunk this test and then I just said well I just did this and it felt right and he literally shut the hell up after that he was like so you’re telling me you went for books ahead of us and you somehow did this math that you have no knowledge of and you were able to do it without anybody or information and I just looked at them. I said yes very awkwardly. I don’t know. It just seem like this seems right. Then I created a math problem that combines every single bit of math within my high school year meaning the math problem was a three-dimensional shape that combined every single bit of math we had learnt within the entirety of of the year. Everything within the book that comes to a final conclusion, but the teacher said he wouldn’t use it For the final exam because he didn’t want to flunk his class but yeah I could not read to save my life but I can read. I think I read at least a high school level, but it makes no sense that I read a high school level but then yet I am pretty sure even a masters degree Academic professor could actually hold a full-blown seminar with me and I’m pretty sure I could actually shake their feathers. 🪶 lol oh and I forgot to mention at least I think I did. I’m also high functioning autism.
Kind of yes, but kind of no. We essentially have two different classes of things that get called 'learning difficulties', which essentially seem to boil down to 'stuff that makes school hard'. The OED definition for 'learning difficulties' is "Difficulty in acquiring knowledge and skills; an instance of this, or factor causing this; esp. (chiefly British) (frequently in plural) such difficulty or difficulties arising from a neurodevelopmental condition, esp. intellectual disability or a learning disorder; the neurodevelopmental condition itself." But note that the phrase with this meaning is 'learning difficulties'. 'Learning disability', in contrast, is more specifically used to refer to what you call 'intellectual disabilities' (IQ/intelligence/function). The OED definition for 'learning disability' is "A disability that affects the acquisition of knowledge and skills; (in later use) spec. a neurodevelopmental condition that has this effect, esp. (a) (chiefly British) intellectual disability; (b) (chiefly U.S.) a specific learning disorder." So, in Britain, the meaning of 'learning disability' = 'intellectual disability', but the phrase 'learning disability' is also used in the US with a different meaning. Unfortunately, given the wishy-washyness of 'difficulties' as a term, I can imagine that people may either 1) not realise the difference between 'learning difficulties' and 'learning disabilities' or 2) think 'disabilities' is the more scientific term for the same thing. I do think there are issues with the way the terms are used in the UK, especially with how our language use might relate to the extent to which we judge people as 'stupid', and devalue them, for a wide range of significantly different things which mean they do less well in school but do not necessarily relate to each other. I also think that categorising things like dyslexia as a learning difficulty is problematic, as it implies that dyslexia creates a problem with learning - when to my knowledge, if we had an oral culture and formal learning was not reliant on printed/written language, then dyslexia would not cause difficulty learning. This, of course, touches on the social model of disability, and it seems to me that by talking about dyslexia a 'learning difficulty' we are simply saying that dyslexic kids will simply naturally struggle with learning, rather than acknowledging that traditional teaching styles may not suit the way they learn, and there are things that can be done about that.
I love music, the louder, the better. I hate random (e.g. traffic) noise, it drives me completely crazy. Excellent video, glad to have found this channel. Despite endless hours of ontopic videos nobody talked about the IQ distribution of AUDHD people yet, at least not that I am aware of. How about allowing autistic people to become experts and excel in exactly the specific area in which they feel most comfortable, and simply ignore all these tests, which often only last a few decades until they are completely scientifically outdated?
I have ADHD and HFA, Have an IQ between 104 in stress to and 123 while young and calm.. But this video is quite nice, A good piece of information, and makes me Glad that you continue to speak the TRUTH!
@@gregd806 I am a Mensa member and I did an IQ Test for my autism diagnosis. I didn’t sleep enough and it was very early in the morning, plus I had to drive in the morning traffic beforehand. I just hit 101 points.
@@gregd806 stress vs iq would be a amazing study if it hasn't been done properly before. Especially if you include severe poverty like that faced when one is genuinely worried about basic survival, getting their next meal. With neurotypical people it is likely severe stress like that can occur without as much real danger (just noise, social situation and pressure) so probably but simply having a idea about its effect would be huge
@@krokovay.marcell serious question, if you had family stress at home and were genuinely worried about simple but crucial things like just finding enough to eat/feed family do you think it could of dipped even lower?
Excellent video! I am 65 with a measured IQ 135. I didn’t learn to read until I was 12. I was diagnosed at that time with ADHD and Tourette’s. The ADHD had a different name at the time. Anyway high IQ, not learning to read until 12. Autism diagnoses years later. I think the IQ test I had as a child let them know I had a learning disability and was able to learn, just that I learn differently. Fortunately I had an amazing Teacher who helped find out how I learned. She totally changed my trajectory. I love your videos, thanks for all of your hard work.
Thanks, for doing the research. And thanks for making, and posting this video Mike. My daughter is a self diagnosed autistic. I learn so much from your Chanel.
I just found your channel through this video. I'm also late diagnosed with hypersensitivity to noises, along with some audio processing issues, which makes things like audiobooks or podcasts nearly impossible to follow. Back in my 20s I had my IQ formally assessed by MENSA at 155, but I declined to join after I found out they required a membership fee (I was incensed that my IQ alone wasn't good enough to get me membership, and I have since learned how problematic that entire organization is). I was an education major in college and Howard Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences was all the rage in my university program at the time (early 90s). I honestly think he was on to something, because it makes a lot more sense that some people are more intelligent in some areas more than others and even those who have a purported "low IQ" can still be really intelligent at things that I'm terrible at.
That was a very well constructed video about a very complex and nuanced subject. I enjoyed it, thank you. I was unaware that the IQ distribution for autists was like that, I had assumed it was going to be the same as the NT distribution.
I also have "the facial recognition of a 6-8 yr old" and I can recite Pie as far as fat, flour & cold water, but then I'll need to know what filling you fancy😉 Great video as always Mike & well worth the extra week's wait👍
real shit. my facial recognition never got past like a 6 year old while i can somehow recite 117 digits of pi and do relatively complex math in my head really fuckin fast.... somehow
@@tristantheoofer2 really? That is super interesting. I've known about my face blindness for many years but am only now figuring out that I'm probably autistic
Oh my YES. Commenting first just on the thumbnail. Been rethinking that EXACT thing all week! Observations of a life time, anecdotally, I would expect "two peaks" of IQ with ASD. My own IQ test scores, over a 60 year span, have varied by 84 points. As you have sited. BEAUTIFUL, beautiful, beautiful video.
Is worth noting the definition of autism has expanded quite a bit, which may be why the curve shifted from 1/2 to 1/3. People with more extreme symptoms were more likely to be diagnosed, particularly under older diagnostic criteria.
Reading this comment section is comforting. Knowing that there are other AuDHD who have dyscalculia and crap working memories. The stereotype that we are amazing at maths and have superior memories just simply isn’t accurate. It is like people fail to understand that it is a large spectrum. It is also important to note that many of us have suffered continuous trauma which is known to affect the parts of the brain that deal with memory. Thanks for the video!!
I as an autistic woman without an intellectual disability had an IQ test done as part of an needed updated psychological testing in the Fall 2009 semester at the Regents Center for Learning Disorders (RCLD) located on the Georgia State University (GSU) Atlanta, GA Campus and in the next Spring 2010 semester i found at the RCLD located on the GSU Atlanta, GA campus told me that I have a low normal IQ. My former OT (occupational therapist) in the past told me that IQ test for people with disabilities like me are flawed and for some reason I sometimes do bad on tests that are just presented in an auditory way and with tests that are just essay tests as well. I have since been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder (general in my case), an auditory processing disorder (APD) known as an integration disorder mostly in a weak auditory working memory, a language processing disorder (also known as a mixed receptive-expressive language disorder in my case) and a spoken language disorder on top of my autism without an intellectual disability here in Georgia (state in the USA and not the country located near Russia).
Yes, I am commenting before finishing the video because i had to pause to feed a cockatoo! This is a valid excuse. I WANT A CHOCOLATE TEA POT!!! A nice thick one. In fact a few so I can do experiments on how thick it needs to be to still vaguely function a tea pot. Does it help to freeze it first like deep fried icecream??? Oh, and yes, once experiments are done. Time to munch chocolate. OK, back to the video 😅 🫖 🍫
I would, honestly, like a chocolate teapot, too! For culinary purposes, y'understand! ('as much use as a chocolate teapot' was a very common saying during my childhood (1980's). It actually took me many years until I realised what it meant; a teapot on a stove melting everywhere! I thought, 'chocolate teapot - sweet!' in a 'chocolate rabbit' and 'chocolate santa' way....
@@Autistic_AFI don't think that saying ever made it to Oz. Other Aussies, let me know if I am wrong. I didn't think of the stove top method, just the pour boiling water into the tea pot method. I have no wish to experiment with a chocolate teapot on my stove 🙀
I wouldn't call myself high IQ or genius, but the myths that bother me the most about autism is that it either makes you intellectually impaired inherently, or it makes you fully capable of being independent if you're even of average intelligence. I'm a young adult, and currently there's so much pressure from my family to learn how to drive and get a job, and I'm afraid to tell anyone how impaired I really am because they wouldn't believe me or dismiss it. Then this leads into how difficult it is to get disability benefits for mental issues like autism...
I am Autistic and have Autistic friends and colleagues who have diagnosis of intellectual disability. They're incredibly astute and wise and have an amazing sense of clarity. It has really made me wonder how they were given that label. They do have differences in learning and processing, and may need Easy Read format but their ability to process information is very good. I do have a friend who was given an intellectual disability label but then lost it again after it was realised it was just they are sometimes non-speaking. Intelligence is so many things - not just shapes, language and mathematics. There is music, art, emotional, perceptual kinds of intellect. I do very well on IQ tests and get 135-145 (when I'm well). But I can't follow a sports game at all as I can't process fast moving visual information. As an indigenous person I come from a culture that honours the unique gifts each person has. Standardised testing is bizarrely reductionist.
There are different types of intelligences. I believe your friends are intelligent, but may not do as well on IQ tests. I don't think those tests truly represent their intelligence or who they are. These are awful labels, and ways of testing intelligence that need deep revision. It's very hard to capture intelligence, people cannot be boxed in like that. and it may affect self esteem, and how people view them. It's awful. If someone has functional capacity challenges, and processing challenges, that is not lack of intelligence overall, and that needs to be specified with the use of labels that are fair and comprehensive. We need to celebrate people not make them look less than. Autistic people have complex ways of operating in the world that are not understood.
Great video! At age 8-9 I had to take an IQ test. My parents wanted me to go to high school (starts with 5th grade here) but my teacher said "Nope, he is interrupting, has bad handwriting and besides maths just average grades. Stupid kid, won't make it far." Took the test, and when the psychologist revealed the result she said, that unfortunately I took a test for adults, because they did not get the test papers in time (this was pre-internet, you had to order physical copies). If I wanted the exact value I had to redo the test. But she can say that it is above 145. Teacher was extremely upset and didn't believe my mom xD Never bothered to take a more conclusive test. I always struggled with everyday life, never had friends, always felt stupid (maybe because classmates told me I was?). My biggest achievement was to survive to this point. Since 7 months I know I'm autistic (Thanks burnout!). It explains everything but helps nothing. I think I'm an average autistic person, with a typical spiky skill set, and the high peaks are what typical IQ tests measure.
I have found that my diagnosis has helped me a ton. What it may lack in practical support services, disability services, etc., it makes up for psychologically. I have been feeling profoundly happy to have finally made sense of my life and experiences and to be able to feel compassion and pride instead of shame. It's basically allowed me to reframe my entire existence. Paying my bills? That's another story. Wishing you well ❤️🩹
I'm commenting before watching. Firstly, nice to see you up a tree, Mike. 😁 Secondly, one of the reasons I knew I was different from my classmates, was that I was always top of the class at school but couldn't do my exams and assessments once I got to secondary school. No one could understand this, especially not me. I was, and have always been told I was gifted, highly intelligent and passing Mensa tests etc, told I'd get to Oxbridge, but I couldn't study on my own, and my grades were poor. I've always been able to intuit answers to things/puzzles/problems and it stuns people, and they think me smart. However, ask me how I know how and why I know the answer, and I often don't know my workings-out, as it were. Put me in a university and I can do hard things. Give me every day things to do, and I'm often absolutely stumped. I require, and receive, social care every week. I'm also one of the UK's 80% of diagnosed autists without paid work - yet I'm supposed to be gifted. Autism intelligence, in fact all intelligence, is not linear or unifacited.
I think I had an IQ test as a teenager, where I scored 109. -Pretty average and it is totally acceptable. Most often people talking about IQ have an average of 160, when self-reported. -Where as it should be 100. Either I am surrounded by genius or dishonesty, when it comes to the estimation of ones own intelligence.
You mean projecting a complex yet vague thing like intelligence into a single value can create misleading results and misunderstanding? /S Excellent video Mike, your ability to condense these complicated topics is impressive.
Thank you for making this video. You have the right to be mentally healthy and take care yourself, and seek help of you need it. I hope you will manage your stressful situation
I’m Autistic, based on the few IQ tests I took, I’m somewhere between 125-130. I still have struggles in life, specifically around social things, and ngl, when it comes to the process surrounding medical care (applying for things, how they ask some questions on official forms, being mixed white/Hispanic, but my options available are Hispanic and white non Hispanic despite being both) There are things I excel in hands down, but I dont see myself as some invincible genius. For me, a lot of my issues have to do with my severe anxiety and it becoming too overwhelming. I’m about to get health care and doctors for the first time in almost 16 years because the process where I am is so convoluted and there are so many stipulations and different requirements where I meet some but not all, so I qualify for some things, but not others so I’m not eligible based on technicalities. People around me my whole life would insult me because they’d say things like “how could you be so intelligent, but struggle with this? This should be so easy for you!” And when I try to explain the responses are I’m just being lazy, I’m willfully ignorant, I just dont care, I’m just trying to be difficult.” And I dont use my IQ to see how intelligent I am, I take them every so often just to keep my brain stimulated and to keep my mind engaged. It’s more about seeing if my abilities are improving, if I’m staying the same, if I’m not working my brain enough. I like to keep my brain active. Alzheimers runs in my family and a lot of my family have gotten it pretty early in life, so I’m hoping by keeping my mind engaged and challenged, it will hopefully take more time for it to effect me later in life. Usually may family started showing signs in their mid 50’s, that’s only about 20 years for me, and I dont want to end up like that forgetting everything and everyone I know so early in life. And I cant imagine my wife waking up one day and I dont recognize her, and she wants kids, I dont want to start forgetting my family and friends early in life. I dont care really about the intelligence part, I care about being and staying myself for as long as I can.
My IQ test I did as a teenager came back normal ( 110 ), but visual memory was at 140 while math was at 80. I'm either really good or really bad at something. Confused teachers in school a lot.
I became to this conclusion just yesterday! 😮 It's awesome to randomly come to the same conclusion about the same time, as someone else somewhere else.😊 During this mood stabilizer induced burnout I'm going through, I've regressed so bad. I wasn't able to store information and use it the way I have built my brain to store and use it. The symptoms are like those after a stroke. I just learned how much dyspraxia has to do with how I learn, store and use information to function - and why I have to gradually build my skills up, from basic things I've learned as a kid to a full grown adult. I've built too difficult system for anyone ever understand but now I have an autistic doctor that understands me, even if I can't use the right words in a right tone. I felt validated because I didn't have to mask (as much) and was treated as fellow human being - rather than infantilized because the person listening can't understand me. I'm still vary about trusting them, because I've been gaslighted so many times by so many healthcare workers - but first time in years I feel like I can breath a little easier and I have some hope to recover my awesome system. I still feel like I'm intelligent but just can't express it. I was just thinking about all those people, who could create wonderful new things for world but can't bring their ideas out. That's a way to start a new day with a good cry. I just need to make my brains work to finally start writing a book or two and maybe try to inform people about how differently people categorise information. Brains have always been interesting and I have understood my calling finally - to research not only how other people work, to prepare my mask but to research my own brain to be more me and maybe help someone else with that information.(Don't ask what this means. I don't know that yet. At this point I'm just writing to make a note to my own brain, that I'll understand one day.) I'm addicted to that feeling, when you wake up and lying there, you realize that a new connection has been made and new information/skill has been learned. Just like waking up one morning and you suddenly learn how to read. That's why I don't see people, who try to change others without changing anything in their own programming, as intelligent.
I’m commenting before finishing the video. Just to say- I like your language choice of “late identified autistic adult” I learned that I have been living with ADHD when I was 29 years old. But I like the word “identified” rather than “diagnosed” because a diagnosis carries some extra weight around it being a bad thing. And adhd in my life does pose certain challenges for me. But it isn’t inherently a bad thing. Thanks for that. Okay I’ll finish the video now.
I have been tested many times, both as a child and as an adult. I got different results each and every time. I studied psychology in College and I learned to hate IQ scores. IQ scores are compared to others your age. Meaning your score is either higher or lower compared to those born the same year as you. It is not compared to the general populations. IQ is also fluid in the childhood and more crystalized as adults, meaning adults have harder time to "learn" new things. This is why your IQ fluctuates over time. They were originally designed to test which children needed more support in school and those who don't. It didn't have much to do with actual inteligence, but your ability to learn. My special interest is knowledge and learning, which has kept me from getting a formal diagnosis, since I'm "too smart" to be autistic. One thing that really pisses me off is the intelectual disability = autism part. Allistic, aka neurotypical, people can also be intelectually disabled. What really boils my blood is so many people equating the inability to communicate verbally as intelectual disability or low IQ. My son is diagnosed with AuDHD and speech impediments. His psychologist wanted to diagnose him with low IQ because "he wouldn't communicate normally and keep eye contact". What she basically said that if a child does not speak the way an allistic adult does, they're stupid. This from a child psychologist. With that logic, all non-verbal, deaf and mute children have 0 IQ. I had to set the reccord straight, yet she persisted on her assessment that my son, who at 6 years old having been non-verbal and had just learned to talk, has low IQ. He was holding 2 hour lectures on internal structures and workings of the human body by then. Random strangers have noted that it is impressive that an 8 year old can so fluently discuss the Schengen agreement and how EU works and bilateral trade agreeements. His special interests switches every 2-3 years. It is currently flags, countries, borders, international politics and regional history. While trying to get assessed for Autism myself, the psychologist I met said that I can't be autistic nor have ADHD, inattentive type, since I did so well in school. Or that I can't possibly be autistic since I have no issues communicating, and other inaccurate assessments. Especially since the RAADS test gave me a really low score every time I did it. This time around I got a high schore, well above the cut off score since a friend helped me expelain what these questions mean. I would interpet them literally and thus answer accordingly. I don't flap my hands infront of my face so 0 points. I do on the other hand stim, which is what this question asks, so 5 points. Quess what got her to finally agree to put me on the wait list for an official autism assessement? The fact that I knew where their box for questionnaires is. A white letter box, at the enterence, on a white wall with tiny text "put your questionnaires here please". Obviously my ability to notice detalis is the only reason I could be autistic.
As an Autistic, and get nearly no sport, I find my work refuse to made any changes that change my ever climbing targets, I can't remember what some one said two minutes ago but do remember opening my eyes as a new born, can't really use a computer as I haven't finished learning bbc basic yet and they changed quicker then I could, by the time I learn computer bits there's an update:-( by the time i find a product on the shelf i like the picking changes my brain is so slow at learning its unbelievable for most to except. So I get left behind. But always remember the oddest things. The world won't change and suicide has been near , get life is a wonderful thing so I push on. Unfortunately the rest of society don't seem to have the same view.
I sat the official mensa exam in my mid 20s and scored 136. Tested again this year at age 54 and scored 143. I plough all my brain power into my art but I'm not much use in other areas of daily life. Never had my autism picked up at school as I found lessons and exams were fine, my school reports just always labelled me as the quiet kid. My two autistic children were classed as gifted at school and were chosen to teach children in younger years below them. My children were both diagnosed autistic in their early 20s and also slipped through the system.
I am diagnosed with Autism. Though I can learn complex things with great detail, I lack intuitive learning capabilities. I have the tendency to, as some have told me, "overanalyze" or "overexplain". This means that I can view technical information without a problem, but struggle with intuitive or simple concepts as described by others.
I imagine IQ as a multidimensional scale. One single measurement cannot represent you as a whole. It's rather an interplay of many different intelligences inside of you. Furthermore, intelligence can also exist outside of you. You are more likely to be or become intelligent with someone intelligent around you or an intelligently designed environment (e.g. books, internet access, no food shortage).
In the UK we tend to assume that people with autism have an intellectual impairment. That came from the previous split between autism and Asperger's in the diagnostic process. My diagnosis for autism scored very highly, but I don't have an intellectual impairment. I have had two incidents where employers would not make adaptations because they didn't accept my diagnosis. The first of those went legal and ended very badly for them as they had put it in writing. The second one happened just as I was retiring but I pursued it post retirement and won my case. No monetary award but they won't do it again. My advice: join a trade union.
I could choose to buy a book because it had a particularly beautiful ISBN code. A friend of my father's used to select books by going to booksellers and sniffing the glues of each volume. If he was fond of a particular glue he would buy the book. I think it was the same gentleman who invented the anaesthetic used by dentists to this day. (I think they were one and the same gentleman, that his nickname was Peje and he was definitely Swedish.) That gentleman would test the chemicals he developed on himself by sticking his tongue into them. When he had mixed the compound that is still used today as I mentioned, and dropped his tongue into the glass, he could no longer feel it. That's how he knew he was onto a winner.
Im pre emptively liking this. Don't have the time to watch so giving love in case it never shows again. Your dolphin analogy- perfect. Iq is a sham, based on assumptions of cultural importance. That's a far as i got
Extremely interesting and informative video. I feel like autism is, like you said, something that presents in peaks. On one side, you have profound autism with IQ below 50, or you have 100 or above (often well above) IQ with little in between.
I have realized that my child and I are likely some form of dyslexic. I noticed when working with her with homework that she had a hard time telling if a letter or number was written correctly. We had to work much harder to be able to tell. I basically have to compare tge dhape to other similar shapes. If you give me letter cutouts, especially of a letter like capital E, I can't tell how they are supposed to go. Putting up the sign at work was so tough that I had to have what I needed to put up written down in order to get it right. I will also mix my words up sometimes while saying them, like "flute smooddies" instead of "fruit smoothies" and if you ask me to turn right or left at any given time, who knows what direction I will end up going. They actually feel the same to me. I wouldn't even know what a crossed directional sense is even called. I couldn't tell you north from south or east from west. I also have to think and use a scar on one of my hands to distinguish right from left. Thank god for gps.
I feel there MUST be an important distinction made between learning and intellectual disabilities-- between problems with HOW learning happens or highly defined sharp shortfalls seen in conventional intelligence (learning disabilities) and people with more generalized intellectual slowness and mental limitedness (Intellectual disabilities). There's probably also something to be defined here about what can reasonably be considered a damaged or lacking/unfinished human brain in a thinking person. Everybody deserves humanity, but, in a world that tends to get people wrong, I'm looking for language to help keep myself out of a vaguely-defined melting pot of "humans who brain different". Intellectual disabilities, learning disabilities, social disabilities and mental health disabilities all get blobbed heartlessly together, when we can't meaningfully explain and separate them to lazy-thinking powerful people, who don't want more work handling anybody. I'm all for standing with everybody who struggle any-which-way but that blob-think of diversity is the opposite of useful to anybody. It's so painful to try to describe myself in these term -- against a backdrop of terror because people can easily assume that what any of these labels mean is that I have an obviously slow mind with gaps in it that is sure to be a problem. So it become vital to understand exactly this stuff around IQ, but I'm not sure I am clear yet - particularly on where I fit here. Maybe I'm an outlier? I have a Nonverbal Learning Disability (NVLD) which partially means that I have some troubles with nonverbal communication (fits well with likely being on the autism spectrum as well). But I compensate with more and more advanced spoken language - not generally how people think about communication with autism. I have above normal IQ in a lot of areas until, in the areas of time, space, numbers and math, my mental abilities plummet sharply. I remember being told that that kind of abrupt and massive imbalance in mental ability in what would otherwise be a normal to above-average thinker in the IQ test's way of getting at ability is what learning disabilities tend to look like, on paper IQ tests. If this really is the case, it would be a relief to be able to insist that I need at least a normal IQ even to HAVE a learning disability, and that the imbalance inherent in my brain is absolutely distinct from the intellectual disability community. Intellectual disability, to me, applies to people with brains that are noticeably slower, won't mentally mature past certain life stages or are damaged or missing stuff. In general, my brain just functions differently in HOW it learns and copes, not it's overall capacity. I'd like to have love and respect for people with intellectual disabilities, while insisting that learning disabilities are not any kind of extrapolation of what those people deal with. And yet there are whole areas of knowledge where my brain seems permanently slower and to be missing the thing that makes the learning work for others in a way that suggests something absent or damaged from some unknown cause. This create deep terror in me. I think I wouldn't mind having my debilitating intellectual shortfalls if I could find enough proven knowledge to tell people, "Learning disabilities are NOT synonymous with intellectual disabilities any more than my autism is necessarily related to either of those things. Intellectually disabled people deserve humanity, but they are not in the same category as me in most meaningful ways." Even in the careful explanation here, though, I can't quite find that distinction, either for learning disabilities in general, or as perhaps I should define it to others for me specifically.
I don't believe that people diagnosed with ID are truly lacking in intelligence. Such a label seems actually quite abusive, and smacks of eugenics. If you follow the psychologist Gardner you will realize that there can be different types of intelligences besides IQ type of intelligence. People with IDs can make great artists, may have emotional intelligence or be very intuitive, or good with their hands, musical etc, etc. We cannot capture someone's consciousness and put a label on it to fit that individual into a social box. Unfortunately, it is done. People are seen for their deficits rather than for their gifts. You cannot truly understand the inner workings, and intelligences of someone, you cannot capture and define these personal elements. Labelling is a form of oppression that has been justified by the medical sector, which supports subjective cultural norms that support the status quo. I think there may be many autistic people that develop skills through their special interests, and this way of establishing a skill set may not be conducive to the content and expectations of IQ tests.
I heard things like learning disabilities are part of the Autism spectrum, as in when disgnosed it's something to consider in screening. It may be there or it may not, but it's considered "Autistic" in this regard. I believe Russell Barkley in that I think it's largely an issue where people who are on the big decision making end having to answer hard "yes or no" to certain questions. It's not an "issue" issue, just where some frustration may be aimed at. When moving forward, one thing has to be prioritized over everything else for a time. That's where videos like these come in good. We get to keep taking the time to ask "Yeah but what about this, and how about that?" because videos can come out sooner than the researchers can finish studies, and lawmakers passing bills.
I knoooooowwwww - the only thing I changed this time was using an external recorder so I don't know why the AF (Autofocus) was hunting around like that. Sorry!
@@Autistic_AF Don’t apologize for that! It’s a talking head video, so the camera being autistic AF doesn’t really change the content… 🥰👐And it's not your fault that my AuDHD brain immediately fixates on the focusing, making sure I catch it every single time! Ten minutes later, I realize that even though it's a fun activity, I can’t keep up with both the focus and the content. So, I write a silly comment, scrub back to the beginning, and listen again... because after all, it’s a talking head video, not 'count the frames where the painting behind the TH-camr is in focus!'🥰
I have ADHD (no autism diagnosis). I had to take an IQ test as part of my evaluation. One section (verbal reasoning) was far above everything else, and another section (the visual side) was significantly below. It's really fascinating how we break IQ tests.
Oh man, called out, typing before watching. It's just in case I forget later! I often edit it, but most the time I just click the next video LOL. For the algorithm!
I'm in agreement, and watching this a second time is proving helpful. Still, i would like to lend this space my own words. The peak in the 'lower' is people who got treated brutally by circumstance of being different and circumstantially un-privileged COUPLED WITH man many many people who aren't NECESSARILY "born autistics" but find themselves utilising concrete, step-by-step, & "monkey-see/monkey-tinker" (instead of "herd-following/get yourself invited") reasoning because of a myriad of reasons INCLUDING damaged, quashed, or stagnated abilities or even just by way of 'having a limp, a lisp, or an awkwardness that is unrelated' to autism OR disability. And finding themselves branching out into 'what works for the outcast'; intelligent or nay, brain-injured from the womb or nay. Lumped in with us tho they may be clever chameleons. Or wounded ones. Having the data skewed terribly against them and continuing to obscure our path to progress as well. In the future we will have more appreciation for these peoples struggles rather than lumping them in with autistic-born personalities and disadvantaging both. Just like in the old days when boys who didn't do well in school were all sent into mechanics, labour or farming. Nowdays we know that it is school itself which disadvantages boys, even the ones who would excel better in medicine or law, or authorship, architecture, or business. etc. If you have an awkwardness you're not always 'either autistic OR damaged, OR both, Or unintelligent, infact many people who dont test "fluently" (/timed against the clock) are the MOST intelligent whether particularly autistic (Task-fastened) or particularly Attention-fastened). 'Smart' is the Art of Slave & Master. Competitive intellect. It's what IQ REALLY measures; & tests in general. Competition orientated. 'Intelligent' is not Competition orientated, it is *Introspective* intelligence. And then there's *Clever*. Clever is sporting acumen. Any of these can be practised, and there's likely to be more. But the tortoise does the best job in the end. If we don't halt their development at every turn in favour of quicker cats. And even sometimes 'tho we do'.
My iq components range between 9th and 99th percentiles. I think it's useful to see your strengths and weaknesses more than it's valuable to get the composite number. People don't want to hear it if your composite number is high anyway.
My brother is autistic and has a learning disability, he struggles with stuff like math and writing but damn is he good at making complex geometry dash levels haha. I really do think that he has intelligence in unique areas
I’m becoming more and more of a proponent of school needing to be places for people to discover and nurture their talents. It’s really starting to kick in, as I am now searching for tertiary education that doesn’t have anything to do with the subjects I had at high school. Sure, I was able to get good enough grades to graduate and be eligible for uni and all… but it turns out I’m not really going to use much of that acquired knowledge at all. That’s not where my special interests, nor my strengths lie. And uni isn’t either. I can envision so many more autistic people flourishing if their talents and interests were pinpointed and nurtures quite early on. But if we just do everything the way neurotypicals do, we will probably stumble and fall. So many things will be actively working against us. We have big discrepancies in our skill sets. We can be bad at our worst, but great at our best. It’s a worthy quest to try and get that message across to general society.
I don't have a formal diagnosis of autism. Over the years I've aced IQ tests and the like and I've got higher education qualifications. The problem I've then run into is one rather immature boss (and I've heard of plenty of others like him) saying, "You're supposed to be so smart but you're not much use," (or words to that effect). From where I was sitting I was in a new environment and I'd only been told half the rules and I was somehow supposed to know the other half. In at least one case, the rule was the exact opposite of what it had been in my previous workplace.
I was forced to take some kind of psyche test towards the end of 2012 and at that time I was a mother to two small children [and had a low blood sugar level and felt as though I could easily pass out at any time] and none of the answers made any sense to me. It was extremely stressful being in that situation and my current situation in life is definitely still impacted by what my now ex [of nearly 12 years] managed to use to keep me alienated from my sons. They were 5 years old and 15 months old when they were ripped right out of my life. They are now 17 and 13 years old.
(Obligatory not autistic, but formally diagnosed neurodivergent) This is so true. I didn't take the IQ test until I was an adult. I scored average. But I was 130 or 135 in verbal IQ (memory?) and 74 or 75 in processing speed and spatial awareness. So I'm 1/2 of a savant either way. It fits with the diagnosis I was given as a teenager. At 13, a vision doctor diagnosed me with Saccadic Dysfunction (involuntary eye movements) and poor eye-teaming skills (total inability to judge distances accurately). Without treatment, I probably wouldn't have been able to drive. I'm still not great at bookkeeping, long-form math, or test-taking.
my IQ is over 130, been in gifted classes since 2nd grade and always read 2 grade levels above my own. but been in SLD (specific learning disability) classes since 6th grade for math. and had a speech impediment up until 4th grade.
*sighs* I really like the video and the thoughts presented. It only tires me to no end, that the examples for "understanding autistic peoples strengths" are always in the IT area. Yes, I am very computer affine but I never lerned to code and when I tried to, struggle with it. Before my (late) diagnosis I finished an apprenticeship as a metalworker and studied craft design. All the while struggling with finding a place were I can actually function sustainably with the skillsets and limitations that I have. Does anyone have ideas or experience with beeing autistic and finding sustainable jobs outside of IT ? It'd be helpful to know.
I was IQ tested toward end of school, 1967, and they made me resit. Apparently there was a weird discrepancy in the scoring, I don’t know exactly what, but makes sense with what you say here. I scored 147 overall. Very late (70s) diagnosis of audhd and likely dyspraxia along with ptsd. I definitely had what would be classed as learning difficulties all my life. My GP actually said I’d done well to make it this far 😂
My Friend is diagnosed with "traits of Autism", and he is yet awaiting a full ASD screening. He has about two years to wait. My Friend has always had to face challenges. My Friend also has super-intelligent giftedness, for example not only does he remember every pop song, but also the singer's names, and even the month and year it was released! My Friend has trouble engaging with others in social settings as he finds it hard to know what "small talk" they are expecting him to say. Out and about, my Friend gets unwanted attention, which he sometimes perceives as threatening. Or "angry noises" we hear. So he suffers anxiety quite a lot. I feel that my Friend has not been offered consistent health care support throughout. And he told me that before he knew me he attended an appointment with a Doctor, describing his symptoms, then this particular Doctor responded by saying "I don't understand you... How can I help you when I don't know what's wrong with you? I've got other Patients to see". I felt this was a missed opportunity to help, or to refer my Friend to a different Doctor. My Friend was left to suffer for four years when he eventually got to see another Doctor and was treated. Professionals need to be aware that people with ASD may describe things a little differently at times, and should be asked to explain, rather than be told "I don't understand you". God Bless. Love Pauline xxxxx
In other areas of the world we prefer learning differences, to refer to dyslexia, discacula, etc. we say difference, because they do not affect, IQ. Although there are people who have lower IQ’s that also have dyslexia. Correlation does not equal causation.
looking to the OED (and my own experience) in britain, we usually use 'learning difficulties' as an umbrella term to refer to dyslexia, discalculia etc. + 'intellectual disabilities', whereas the phrase 'learning disabilities' usually refers more specifically to 'intellectual disabilities'. Language is silly sometimes, but especially when it comes to talking about intelligence and learning
Neurodiverse hiring programs are a fantastic development. And increasingly sensory sensitivity is recognised. However I find that there is a complete lack of understanding of executive function challenges, which makes it difficult to get accommodations. All employers want good executive function
I honestly dont understand why IQ is still respected. Im both autistic and according to my records i got a gifted score, but Jesus Christ school whoops my tail. Just never made sense to me
When I was 12, my IQ was measured at 137, and I joined Mensa somewhere along the way. My younger brother doesn't enter the "gifted" range of IQ, but he's still slightly above average. We both have adhd. I think he should get evaluated for autism, as should I, but my symptoms are atypical. They can't decide if I have it or not. It's ironic, to be considered atypical even among autistics, but I digress. I remember my therapist sending me to a psychiatrist for adhd medication, only for him to question me on if I even need the meds, or have adhd in the first place. He said, and I quote, "Your grades are good, aren't they?" I got the meds in the end, but that stuck with me. In elementary school, I was an all A's student, and my grades began dropping gradually a bit every year afterwards. By the time medication came into play, my grades were "average" but I always got the "You're not applying yourself" from teachers, since I was gifted. And I knew that if this trend of dropping grades continued, I would not make it to graduation (I was right). I ended up dropping out of school before getting my final diploma. (In Germany, there's three tiers of diplomas you can get, and I never finished the third.) I think about the fact that I have "atypical" autism signs sometimes. I was diagnosed with autism once, while in a psych ward, and later that diagnosis was replaced with adhd. In the ward, I was in an unfamiliar place with people I didn't know, while also battling social anxiety and depression, and what I now recognize as cptsd. I got along with the autistic patients immediately. But when I feel comfortable in my environment, I act very differently. My therapist, back when we worked on the adhd diagnosis, said I couldn't have autism because I was too socially skilled. I think that's what they mean with atypical autism. I thrive with people, and that's not normal. Funny how there's a normal in a spectrum defined by not being normal. It took years for me to get this good at interacting with people. The way I was at the ward was the way I had been for years. Even now, the majority of people I get along with are neurodivergent themselves.
As an AuDHDer with an 135 IQ myself I work as a psychologist in an organisation that cares for people with ID. Some of them also are autistic. IQ only is not enough to assess someones support needs. Also, I think that by only looking at formally diagnosed autistic people, the IQ bell curve of autistic is heavily distorted, but is actually a bellcurve. But usually you only going to look for a formal diagnosis if you face problems fitting in society. If you have an ID you're going to stand out in the most of the cases, leading to the wrong assumption that half of autistic people have a low IQ. That group was diagnosed more % wise than the normal or high IQ groups. With an IQ over 2sds higher you differ as much from the majority as those with an ID. You may have the intelligence/skills to mask some of the challenges that brings, and society may be willing to put up with some of your 'quirks' (think of Einstein), but this group may want to go look for an explaination for their challanges and seek an diagnosis, so that ecplains the second peak. I project we miss a lot of autistic people that fitt right in the middle of the autistic IQ bellcurve as they haven't been formally diagnosed and maybe not ever will.
I'm desperately trying to find my strentghs and weaknesses and optimize career choice based on that. I know I have a very uneven profile with garbage abstraction skills (very broad concept so it is not self-explanatory, let's say I suck at infering abstractions from real examples which most rather smart people seem to do just fine) and horrendous working memory (different from short term memory like hearing a phone number and typing it afterwards, working memory is a lot more complex). Bad working memory feels like a mental bottleneck when performing mentally challenging tasks. It makes me horrendously bad at real maths even though I excel at pattern copy pasting which is all you need for high school maths and below, but the second an innovative reasoning is required, impossible. Yeah guess how my high school teachers looked at me when I told them I was worried about pursuing a maths-heavy higher education because I struggled a lot in this discipline while I also had near perfect results ... like I was nuts lmfao. I have good visuo-spatial capabilities and memory, good language skills although rather slow and a problem-solving driven motivation. I cannot find anything serious on that topic of cognitive strengths & weaknesses profiling and it's really annoying. If anyone has an idea, I'd gladly take it. If anyone has a life experience that resonates with mine, I'd also be extremely curious about your testimony. I'm lost among aliens that assume we're alike because we look the same.
While it is very simplistic and the science behind it is not something I have looked into, there is a website called 16 personalities. It revolves around the Myers-Briggs personality profiles, and while I wouldn't put complete faith in it, there is a rather lengthy multiple choice/rate how much this applies to you out of 5 type test that will put you into one of the 16 personality types. Once you have that, you go to the profile of that personality and it has a little write up on how people with that personality type would typically experience things like relationships, emotions, and careers. They can give examples of careers in those write up which would be a good starting point or point of data on your search.
I dont know my IQ but I am fairly sure it is quite ok with the excpetion of all things math. I struggled since I was a little kid allthough I learned a lot and had different teachers. It is a pity because I am quite interested in science but could not study anything relates because you need math. And I hate those tests with questions like "What is the next number" because my brain is always like: I dont know, I dont care, now can we do something of interest 😅 It was also interesting for me hearing you talk about autism as a disability. I am a late diagnosed woman and it seems I learned to mask so good, nobody believes me I'm autistic so everybody is either "you are not autistic, you look at me and speak with me and you are so normal " or just ignoring the fact. And I loved you being in the tree, wonder where we will meet you next 😂 Greetings to the cats!
The whole system has so many flaws, high IQ does not equal low support needs
This is very true.
This need to be an autistic mantra...”high IQ does not equal low support needs”
If more people understood and accepted this, I suspect there would have been far less suffering in my life (as an autistic female with an IQ of 157, finally diagnosed at 53 years old)
@@SkeletalSculptorI tested IQ at 156 and I have intense support needs. High IQ doesn't mean much it doesn't make us better or worse than anyone else.
@@Autistic_AFI feel a lot of people get lost in translation needing more support than they get purely by "IQ" or misinterpreting or misunderstanding.
@@SkeletalSculptor *waves* in AutDHD & fellow (post)menopausal. I am a Mensa member (took their test out of sheer desperation in my 20s, over a decade before my ADHD diagnosis) and I have never learned to, among other things, fill in forms. Just looking at a form, especially on paper, spikes my stress level. My mild-ish dyslexia does not help.
I was formally confirmed an ADHDer at age 40 and got a working diagnosis of autism at age 53. I have not had the time, energy and money all simultaneously since then to pursue an official confirmation, as I have coexisting illnesses, got divorced a few months after the autism discussion with my neuropsychologist, and my adult son is AutDHD and a wheelchair user and lives with my second husband and me.
Solidarity!
I think part of the problem with the old statistics regarding autism and low IQ is sample bias: people with low IQ were much more likely to be diagnosed with autism than average or high IQ people.
Ah, you mean a selection bias in the statistics. Makes sense...
It was literally a requirement for most diagnostic centres that the IQ would be either below 70 or at least below 100 in order to diagnose autism. Older data is useless.
One of the issues getting rediagnosed with Autism was they considered me too smart and articulate to be Autistic . These stereotypes have been very harmful to me and other autistic people
Agreed, professionals particularly have no excuse for not being up to date. It's literally part of their job descriptions.
The thought spot channel did a video about that about three weeks ago.
Same with being late diagnosed. As a child, I would have been level 2 or 3. As an adult, they basically put us in level 1 if we live on our own
@@Autistic_AFI had an IQ test done as a part of updated psychological testing as an autistic adult in my first Fall 2009 as a student at Georgia State University (GSU) Atlanta, GA campus at the Regents Center for Learning Disorders on the GSU Atlanta, GA campus and they stated I have a low normal IQ in my second semester 2010 at the Regents Center for Learning Disorders (RCLD) located on the GSU Atlanta Campus. My former OT (occupational therapist) to,d me that IQ tests aren't accurate and I could have an higher IQ as an autistic woman without an intellectual disability and diagnosed with four other disabilities.
Doesnt mean we live WELL on our own, though, does it? @@JDMimeTHEFIRST
I have a formal IQ of 147. I cannot do anything further than basic maths. Anything else I excel at depending on how my brain feels on a particular day. I play classical guitar to a very high level. I'm a security guard. This, as usual was an excellent video.
@@jabberwocky4353 watch out for vorpal swords 🗡
My door number is 147. Snap!
I tend to question the validity of IQ tests, just because the less I think, the higher the scores go. I'm not quite as high as you are, but, it does seem rather pointless to have a score in the low 140s, but be some completely clueless about when I need to drink, or struggle to really move forward in life due to organizational challenges.
I tested at 156 and honestly the same, I struggle so much I feel stupid so often.
Same.
59yr old self-dx afab transman here.
I work as a department buyer in a small grocery store, but I can step in for anyone in any department to complete any task they may have started (except admin & cashiers) bcz I know that entire store backwards & forwards.
I was reading by age 3, writing letters to others before I was 4, & read at 6th grade level by age 5.
My second stanford binet score (age 10) was 154 on a test I was actively trying to do badly on.
My first at age 7 was 163.
Yet I was 20 before I could do word problems bcz of my "too literal" thinking pattern.
I cannot recall faces of customers, & was unable to distinguish a pair of heavyset bearded brown-haired, glasses-wearing co-workers from one another for the 1st 3 years I worked there and I'm *related* to one of them.
I never really left my home turf bcz I have no sense of direction & I hate talking to people whom I haven't known a few years already.
I have a huge phobia of becoming lost bcz I have such difficulty speaking to strangers in strange places often I can't force myself to speak at all. I can even picture myself speaking and getting help, but my tongue stays glued to my palate & my handwriting gets tiny & crowded too.
In public, I'm genarally completely dissociated & "operate myself" like a speaking marionette.
I don't need a formal dx bcz no services exist in my area, especially for older lgbtq folks.
We have 2 Mensa people in my family, they have told me that over half of the people they met at these meetings, wherent really functional in their everyday life.
Many needed help or forgot to eat or didnt have a job at all.. They where all wonderful people, they all had very different abilities, and so many of them struggled one way or another. Having a high IQ is not a gift, it can even be the thing that fucks you over if you arent given the things you need to evolve it.
That said they where ll super cool people, very sweet, and very knowledgeable
@Gwenx I am a Mensa officer, past (LocSec) and present (local Gifted Youth Coordinator). I am autistic, not officially diagnosed until age 70. My experience with people who attend Mensa events (about 10% of total membership) is that the incidence of people who seem to be autistic is significantly higher than that of the general population, although by no means a majority. For what it's worth.
I've heard different things from people about Mensa... A friend said he left after some were making fun of people for being "less". You only need a 120iq to join Mensa, so pfft.
@@Baptized_in_Fire. 150
@@d-meth There seems to be several different scales for IQ. What I heard was 132 was minimum for membership. Either way all sources seem to agree you have to at or above the 98th percentile.
I have mostly worked at colleges and unis. With the introduction of government money, it’s not a helpful environment.
Most people are working for power or to show their power or show their intelligence. I did not enjoy that.
I enjoyed much more, the friendship of people with similar hobbies and goals. I compete with myself and don’t enjoy competition with others like in sporting events.
So I didn’t like networking as I am autistic and disliked hypocrisy.
But there are some good people everywhere and I tried to be careful who I worked for to avoid the weird people. No chance of becoming famous if you don’t want to play their games.
Be Autistic, be really good at something (esoteric and) specific. The system ,''yes, you are brilliant beyond measure, here now, do this impossible thing, again and over again'.
Yes, this has been my life. (Though I didn't know I would likely fall onto the spectrum until the last few years of it.)
Until I get sick of it. My dad thought I was good for nothing but drawing pictures. I now hate to draw pictures.
IQ was validated with the assumption of there being a uniform pattern of human. It quickly breaks when you consider spiky profiles.
It's also mainly a useful medical tool to assess illnesses since it's extremely sensitive to any degree of physical or mental health issues.
PsychometricBros trying to correlate IQ to intelligence always seem to completely overlook this simple fact: a person being ill is not automatically LESS INTELLIGENT than before and being ill is not automatically erasing their past abilities and achievements but the Cognitive Proficiency Index hence the timed subtests hence the FSIQ will all go significantly down when you're ill.
I have various measurements around 140 FSIQ and around 142-146 timed matrix reasoning and around 125-135 cognitive proficiency index in medically administered and school administered tests as a child and as a kid.
As an adult, after a full decade of hell with my health (long story short: ten years of brain hypoxia and no sleep) I've lost around 35 points of Processing Speed, which shows in anything I do, sports, videogames and reading speed included: I have a lot of previous benchmarks from standardised tests in sport and videogames plus some previous tests administered either at school or in medical settings I can use to compare my abilities from when I was whole and I knew from my real world everyday experience that my processing speed and my visuospatial working memory were slowly being destroyed by illness; when a new psychometric assessment told me I lost 35 points of processing speed I was unfazed, I expected such a result.
The psychometrist tho? Wow, she was almost going crazy. Idk what her problem was, she wasn't having it, she couldn't accept the idea that the test would VALIDATE MY REPORTED SYMPTOMS and further demonstrate what I had been lamenting for 10 years was actually completely and perfectly true (as other real life benchmarks had already demonstrated) so she tried to challenge me because she didn't accept her Ego being wounded by real life showing her that a psychometric tool is not a valid way to gauge a person's intelligence throughout their whole life. No, her test HAD to still give me the same results I had as a child, FUCKING BRAIN DAMAGE NOTWITHSTANDING.
Gurl: go to therapy, psychometry is not a Law of Physics, it's just a descriptive statistical tool, OF COURSE performances are going to vary!
@@edraith I feel bad for you. It's such a painful loss yet no one sees or understands it unless they're really open to listen.
@@Jules-kp7rw thank you. Honestly I don't feel so bad about it because I suffered way way more for the physical symptoms of cardiorespiratory deficit: I used to be an extremely active person and an agonistic athlete and becoming physically handicapped as a youngster really damaged my psyche.
@@HarryPotter-kb7we That's why widely used, professional IQ tests like the WAIS-IV or WISC-V are divided into different domains, each representing specific aspects of cognitive abilities, such as verbal comprehension, working memory, perceptual reasoning, and processing speed. When there is a large discrepancy between scores in different domains, a single IQ score may not accurately reflect overall intelligence. In such cases, professionals focus on the profile of strengths and weaknesses across these domains, rather than relying solely on the composite IQ score as a measure of intelligence.
I made an autistic friend! She’s having a hard time with the interview process, but is pretty confident she could do the actual job duties just fine. I thought of how you said you might make a video about successfully passing interviews as an autistic job applicant, and wanted to drop a reminder.
Yup. Interviews are just a way to discriminate against people legally
In the 80s i went for a job as a shop Assistant at c&a ..i was sitting in a chair opposite a high court like ,3 meters high..4 people looked down at me ..one was a psychiatrist.....but i looked very avantgarde ..and i would have hated the job and i know one month before running of.....😅
Yay, new autistic friends!
Video(s) are on the list!
I struggled with interviews too. I applied twice and got interview twice. One for more senior position the other slightly more junior. The first interview I went in masked, awkward and struggled. The second interview was bout 3 months later. In the 3 months I had many interviews. I'd gotten tired of masking and so this time I didn't mask. I went my full autistic self. Not masking I could answer the question better, in great detail. I got excited answering the questions and some where directly related to special interests, masking I suppressed that and really messed up the question. I got the job. A few years later I was recruitment team and HR lady was there too. She told me I was strangest interview she's ever done as I seem from the first to the second interview to be 2 completely different people. She said my confidence level in fist was no existent but the second I was completely confident in my ability. Learned masking can be the worst thing to do in and Interview after that. Focus on the job were there is hint even of special interest and let that enthusiasm and confidence shine.
@@chrismaxwell1624 my partner almost didn’t get hired at first because the manager thought she was “fake” during the interview. But no one else applied so they eventually hired her. She was by far the best employee they’d had in years.
The only time I had my IQ "measured" was on first year of medical college (as a nurse student). It was on a psychology class somewhere late in the year, and the new teacher began her work from introducing us to the concept of IQ. The whole first hour was just us completing the test, and on second hour we were discussing results with her.
Thing is, a lot of my class mates got pretty low scores (like 70-80 range). In my town this college was known for being a place where parents direct their "stupid" kids when it's clear they won't do much better (along with the college that prepares cooks). So a few kids were upset about sort of getting verification that they're dumb. Should note here that most students enroll there at ~16 years old by skipping couple years of school, so most of us weren't fully adult yet.
So the teacher tried to comfort those kids, saying that the whole point was to show us that the test was outdated, flawed and didn't measure all the important stuff like compassion, empathy, etc etc that might've made them consider a future of a nurse in the first place. She said that the score of our group was even above most that she's seen in past years, and that it's generally expected of "nurse-type" people to score low.
To that point I was listening to her without knowing what my score was. But then to prove the point she just passed me my result, saying something like "and here's another proof that this test is completely broken and doesn't measure correct things - some people score unrealistically high, especially compared to performance in classes". My list was passed down through a few tables, classmates obviously checking it out with a mixture of surprise and laughter.
I scored 138. And honestly I thought she was totally correct that the test was bugged. Because I struggled a lot during the whole education process. I rarely had good grades in school, except maybe biology and informatics, foreign languages and maybe a bit of math and geometry too. And the whole first year of college I was just that weird kid with some obvious social underdevelopment. Like, literally some classmates felt the need to grab my hand and help me cross the street because they for some reason thought I was like 4 year old that could randomly run under the car for no reason. I had no clue why. I had no idea I had autism back then. To my knowledge I was just weird and maladaptive in any human environment.
But that day when my "obviously randomly broken" result was used to show those folks that their results aren't that bad after all kinda left me with mixed feelings. I wasn't emotional much those days, so it didn't really made me upset. But on one hand I was curious who the heck I could score that high at random when I didn't even understoon some of those tasks to begin with. Was I really that lucky to just poke at correct answers whenever I had to guess? Then on the other hand, I never really considered IQ test as anything legit and never considered re-taking it either. Not sure if I'd score lower or higher now. Probably won't ever now. To be honest, I don't need a test to know that I'm good at useless things and absolutely terrible at some things that most people don't consider a challenge to begin with.
She sounds like a bully trying to ostracize you. What kind of person does that? Probably no empathy.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST I don't agree with this reading. I think she wanted to show that people are all different and it doesn't say that intelligence equals how valuable you are as a person or how necessarily well you must perform in school or on a test, but she just handled it poorly.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST I wouldn't call her a bully, I mean... she wasn't a bad teacher, we weren't even on bad terms with her. And it was served more like a friendly joke, like it wasn't secret for anyone including myself that I failed a lot on some disciplines. Tbh she could've even say nothing and just show my result silently and it would still cause mass laughter.
But then again, it was in Russia back in early 00s, so things like boundaries, politeness, etc worked differently there. Like, no one even considered it could feel weird for students to get their IQ scored openly discussed among the class. Some were refered to as variations of dumb for the rest of their years in that college. But no one really thought it was out of place because of all the stuff that was wrong with this place, that one the least severe for most.
@@Kamishi845 yeah that's what she was trying to say, but she could've picked better words for that, indeed.
Your teacher was as broken as the test. Wth?
I think -- never mind, I'll watch first.
Happy to read your thoughts, as always, Ken! I'm glad you're here!
@@Autistic_AF 🙂
I’ve seen you on another autism channel an older gentleman, real nice guy. He reminds me of me but an older version I’ve seen your picture. No one else has that picture I don’t remember the name that was associated with the image but that face I remember all I can remember is the previous comments that you had made were very true and very rightand that you were nice but some of the stuff you were pissed off at I can’t remember which things but the subconscious in my brain is telling me I’ve seen you before
@@kensears5099 Ok, that's funny lol
😂
I was diagnosed with Autism, adhd, and Dyscalculia last year at the age of 32 after a lifetime of mental illness misdiagnosis and overmedication. In Highschool, my score was 136. I was failing classes left and right though and eventually dropped out Senior year. In elementary school, I would check out SAT and Mensa workbooks and do the tests for fun. I read the dictionary and would beat my mother and her friend who both had master degrees in English and taught elementary english in scrbble so hard on a regular basis that they made a rule that they were allowed to use a dictionary, but I wasn't.
In elementary school, I was so incredibly bored. It went way too slow, and I understand the other kids didn't catch on as quickly, but every time someone raised their hand cause they needed clarity, I would just zone out in boredom and start drawing in my notebooks. All of a sudden we were on the next subject and I didn't learn anything else from the previous lesson and I even had to ask the people around me what subject we were on next. Every grade level, I was asked by at least one teacher to please stop raising my hand to answer because the other kids just didn't try cause they knew I would have the answer.
I was about to fail the 5th grade and my teacher brought my mom in for a conference to talk to us about it. He asked me why I wasn't doing my work and why I was failing. I didn't have the wisdom I have now, so all I could say was that it was too easy and I get bored. I looked at them both as they looked at each other before bursting out in laughter. They didn't believe me and teased me about it. At that point, I stopped trying and I started turning into an angry kid, which just got me put on more mind numbing medications that caused hallucinations, making me be put on antipsychotics, which made me a foot shuffling, drooling husk of a person by the time I was 12 years old. That behav was deemed "depressed" and so I was put on anti-depressants, and with all of my anxiety from being on all of these medications, being undiagnosed autistic in a neglectful adoptive home without my siblings, I was put on anti anxiety medications, then I was excitable and couldn't sleep so I was labeled as an anxious, bi polar, depressed, schizophrenic with mood disorders before I was a teenager. Oh yeah, I forgot the sleeping pills too cause I had terrible insomnia.
Omg, I think it is so horrible when children are forced to take meds like that. Older children do have the mental capabilities to understand logical explanations, so they should have a say in these decisions because some of those meds do have long-term side effects, especially in younger people who are still developing.
Sad that you were so let down by the system, especially since you are only around my age. I think the age you are diagnosed, as well as the resources available in school can make a world of difference.
I did the Mensa IQ online test and got 130. I thought I would have been around 80, but this test is all about pattern recognition and I found it somewhat easy until the very last questions. I remember doing my exams at school and there were so many distractions like you have mentioned; buzzing flickering lights, pages turning, pencils scribbling, whispering, it was sensory overload. While I got all A's and B's in papers throughout the year (time on my side, and a quiet setting), I got a D+ in my final exams; I knew it was coming and I was gutted. I was so distracted by the noises in the Gym setting with 100+ students that time was up before I even completed half of the questions. I had to read every question 2-3 times with all the background noises. Everyone was shocked by my grades, and I didn't get into any of the Universities that I wanted to. I ended up going to TAFE and didn't manage to get to Uni at all. In Chinese culture it's all about EQ, and I failed even more at that being Autistic. Great video Mike.
I stink at those visual pattern recognition tests. I'm good at other kinds of pattern recognition, like languages or psychological. But they don't test for that here.
I've done lots IQ tests and pattern recognition is that ones that I do the best on
"in Chinese culture it's all about EQ" - would you care to explain what you mean by that? It's the opposite of what my superficial impression of the Chinese culture is.
I took a mensa test in 8th grade and didn't quite pass. Took it again in a quiet, comfortable environment and more than passed. You're absolutely right, accommodations matter. 'Built different' is a phrase people use to try to say they're special or somehow superior in some way, but in our case, we actually are built different, at least in this context lol
@@anniestumpy9918 Emotional Quotient. The less you are affected by emotions in business, the more successful you will be. This links together with 面子 (miànzi) (Face, or saving face, a term in western culture borrowed from the Chinese), which refers to a sociological concept in general linked to the dignity and prestige that a person has in terms of their social & business relationships. Saving Face sends you down the rabbit hole of Narcissism and High Masking. It's all about looking good. If you haven't made it, Fake it (mask) until you do because nobody will succeed if they're not living in the mansion on top of the hill, driving a Bentley, and carrying the latest Gucci handbag (or whatever is currently trending). And then we are back at EQ in order to maintain and control and/or compose ourselves while we are climbing to the top of the ladder.
I am autistic. I have been tested as a kid and scored around 143, with a disharmonic IQ profile, my working memory sucks ass, and that seems to be correct in practice. I am an idiot one day and highly functional the other, depending on how my energy levels and stress are. I can, with some practice, score super high on all kinds of tests and end in the highest segments.
For anyone with a high IQ, it doesn't mean squat in life. I struggled in school, don't know how to make friends, can't keep a job, don't know how to grammar, but everyone made sure to remind me that I was the smartest guy in the room. Much good did that do me :P I found some balance later in life after I received professional help, and I am happy, but it was a rocky road.
[edit] People around me based their expectations on my IQ, it put a lot of pressure on me that I couldn't meet. I don't blame anyone for this but as a kid this was horrible.
I can relate. My family would get angry at me because I failed their expectations for me. I was supposed to get rich and famous for my gifted kid talent! 🙄
Relatable, and I have several children who are like this. They are deep thinkers, but working memory can be severely challenged. I, too, often find myself thinking about myself and them, ‘how can I/they be ‘so intelligent’ in some areas and so ‘lacking’ in others. It’s intuitively confusing, even though I’ve read extensively about it. Sometimes, I imagine it’s like a racing video game where the ‘units’ of attributes are zero-sum, and ‘abilities’ are simply distributed differently. However, some individuals have more to work with than others, and there are various types of vehicles (drag racing cars, vans, dump trucks, etc.). It’s challenging to be any kind of vehicle when the expectations and demands of life seem mismatched with what you are. And don’t forget, it matters greatly what the vehicle has ‘been through.’ Cheers
fr, i can remember being born but cant remember what i was saying if im interrupted
Multiple choice questions written by neurotypicals are only written for neurotypicals. I have follow up questions to their multiple choice questions and aren’t allowed to ask them. So now I have to guess how the person who wrote the test (who I don’t know) thinks. How is this a measurement of what I know? It’s not.
Did they mean to try to trick me with one word or did they just word it badly or ambiguously because they are neurotypical? Who knows.
This so much! Though I struggle the most with open questions, especially "fill in the blank". Because I feel like there's always a correct way of filling in the blank word, but the possibilities are endless.
Given like 4 things to choose from I don't have to play mind games with whoever planned the test.
This was my experience with learning languages at school. Perhaps if we had had similar with other subjects, I would have struggled more, but we were mostly required to write essay responses in high school.
But yes, totally get how the wording can be ambiguous. The questions for ND diagnosis are just the worst.x)
OMG yes, unless it's math I hate multiple choice questions. Let me write 3 paragraphs making sure I got my point across or else I'll walk out of the test very stressed and confused about possibly answering wrong by misunderstanding the question/answers. Probably still get a good grade but die inside a good bit too
I find that because they are written for neurotypicals they don't have the kind of wrong answers I would get as an autistic so that absence of the kind of wrong answer I would get shows me that I'm wrong so I can redo the problem and gives me an advantage.
I have an IQ of 160, but I never fitted in anywhere. I'm very academically successful (2 stem degrees, 2 law degrees, top grad in all of them), but I'm not a team player because I've never found I team I could relate to. I'm essentially unemployable, because I won't follow rules and instructions that make no sense, and my brain keeps escaping from anything I find boring. I spend my time absorbing huge amounts of information and building the biggest possible big picture. I can lecture at a high level in many fields, and can integrate them into a coherent whole. However, no one else seems to believe that this is humanly possible since they can't do it themselves, so people rarely believe what I try to explain to them. Over time I've discovered that seeking truth and being right is not a survival strategy. Belonging is a survival strategy, and that's what I can't seem to manage. Belonging involves compromising intellectual integrity for the sake of tribalism, and I'm allergic to that. It was either Bernard Shaw or Oscar Wild who said that if you're going to tell people the truth, make them laugh, or they'll kill you. I still stick to the truth because I'm hardwired that way, but over time it's cost me most of my human relationships. Fortunately my partner is similar to me and does understand what I'm talking about, so I do have one meaningful social connection.
I’m very similar. You explained it perfectly. A similar partner is the extent of my sociability, and I am unemployable for the same reason. Great explanation of this situation, and I wonder what this looks like in men. People tolerated my father’s behavior at work out of respect for his abilities. I think for us this is that archetypal phenomenon of men being allowed to be eccentric. But not women. He did go along with (but not quietly) the bureaucratic and social expectations that seem intolerable to me, but his work was in his special interest and would never want to be disconnected from it. He was very lucky, I am the opposite. Having some of the common physical comorbidities (undiagnosed/untreated for decades) negatively affected my ability to sustain function. Now at 60, I see almost all as quantifiably lost. Thanks for the unexpected validation.
When my social worker first visited me, she brought a colleague who deals with learning disabilities, "because autism is a learning disability"*. Neither of them had a clue about autism!
The only really useful support I've had is from Mencap, who have a support service in my area for people with autism and/or learning disabilities. I've met almost all of the team, and they all understand autism (and ADHD), and know the difference between autism and learning disabilities. Unfortunately, they are funded by an outside organisation who seem to be bureaucratic box tickers and don't have a clue about either.
* I'm autistic, and good at sarcasm!!!
That's good news about Mencap. I've heard mixed things; from great to 'um' and it seems to depend on whom is in the local branch. I'm totally happy that they understand AuDHD - that's 'more than half' of the battle, imo! Take care! Mike
If neurotypicals could learn not to discriminate and to communicate more clearly, I’d be good 😅
@@JDMimeTHEFIRSTsir please dont ask for the impossible.
Random note: I just noticed something about your videos that made me hold a 10-minute silent speech to my nearest wall: Your videos are actually comfortable to listen to.
Most videos where people are sat in front of a camera talking about a topic, reacting to videos, teaching a software etc. don't bother at all with trying to make their voice pleasant. Every sentence they say might follow the same melody without any variation. They'll include pointless rambling and cut out purposeful silence. AND THEY DON'T BOTHER AT ALL WITH CLICK REMOVERS. Mouth sound removal is such a simple thing, such an easy thing to do with any proper video editor. De-esser as well. Completely automatic. And yet they just can't be bothered. And then they'll smack their lips after every single sentence as if to spite me.
Point is, I'm so thankful you take that bit of extra care.
Hey, thank you. I’m glad you noticed haha - it’s the little things. All the best, Mike 🧡
Lip smacking, teeth sucking, and wet tongue sounds absolutely make me want to claw my skin off. I HATE it.
I second (or third?) this.
Watching his videos is relaxing and he is excellent at conveying the information. ❤
Mike’s voice is naturally warm, kind, pleasant and soothing. He just speaks and that is what you get.
As an ADHDer who likely has autism as well, but no hypersensitivity to sounds apart from phases of _intense_ stress (I'm more hyposensitive usually), this video was honestly a bit too calm for me😂 I've noticed with a lot of autistic creators that I struggle to listen to them. The ADHD creators are more my cup of tea. It's interesting to see the differences in preference between the neurodiversities.
My completely intuitive hunch about the IQ curve of ASD individuals (as it is currently distributed) is that those in the middle 80-100 can pass more easily as NT. Likely they weren't identified early in life due to learning difficulties nor have they had the intellectual curiously or self awareness to learn about ASD and actively seek diagnosis later in life. Therefore the center part of the curve is missing because those individuals do not receive formal diagnosis at similar rates. I assert that middle IQ autistics absolutely exist but are not represented properly in the statistics. My feeling is that those individuals need relief and support as much as anyone else on the spectrum. They deserve answers to the questions they likely have always had about their daily struggles.
Thank you for writing exactly what I planned to write, too!
I'm now thinking when I talked with a student counceling psychologist at the uni. I had good grades at school despite being absent *a lot*. She saw as one of my problems that I lack studying skills, as I never needed to work for my grades. But she told me that future employers will likely prefer someone who has average grades from the uni, they tend to like that more than good grades.
I'm at least predominantly ADHD, so turns out I have no problems with this, after all I never finished my master's thesis. /s And being self employed grades are no issue either way. It was just about the understanding how the society prefers average. And that's ok, was just thinking about the point of passing more easily as NT.
(I was eventually aiming for a career at the uni, as I loved doing research, but guess the ADHD got the better of me. Anyway at a university good grades are 100% an asset, if you wish to continue past master's.)
_That_ is a very interesting hypothesis. And it would make sense.
That was exactly the question that came to my mind when I saw that. Is it possible that there is a group of autistic people that fits those IQ scores, but has fallen through the crack of diagnoses? Would not be the first time entire groups were to be largely missed...
But it is a hypothasis and I have no means to prove or disprove it.
40% of diagnosed autistic people measure between 85 and 115 iq on traditional iq testing. I'd hardly say they're somehow missing.
I am a diagnosed autist with a PhD in molecular biology and a thirty+ year career in biomedical research, but I cannot do mental arithmetic, at all. I never know if the change I am given is correct or not. Given a pencil and paper, my mathematical skills are reasonable for a professional biologist, probably a bit above average for the general population.
I have a similar issue, I can't even do simple mental math. I couldn't remember multiplication tables. But, I also can't make myself find math interesting, so it's actually painful to try ( I'm Autistic+ ADHD, and that's the ADHD interest based drive keeping me from learning more things).
So good to read that, my son is struggling with mental arithmetic, but is very bright, great memory and wants to me a biologist (interested in genetics).
Maybe you should look into aphantasia, if you haven’t already. Especially if you also have problems with ‘visualizing’, remembering people’s faces, or assigning names to them. It’s a lot more common in autistic folks, 38% I think.
@@Iminyourwallsanditscozy I am fairly accomplished at drawing portraits in pencil and ink. I have extremely good facial recognition skills. My problems are very specifically limited to mental arithmetic, which, since the invention of pocket calculators, are now minimal.
This has been a major issue in my life. I'm at the extreme end of things at tested IQ and can do things, such as pattern recogintion, so fast it freaks people out. My executive functioning, social skills etc etc are abysmal. Being born in the 70's I went through school with the assumption that I would just glide through life on my "intellectual ability". The pressure an me was intense, not a thing I would wish on anyone.
I'm glad these things are better understood, no doubt there's much more to do, I like to think young people now have a fighting chance to be supported through education based on their personal needs.
I was born in the 80s, but otherwise the same story. I think some of it comes down to IQ tests being a "test" in the school sense rather than a measurement of a single property. It's a set of subtests intended to evaluate certain skills, but both how those skills are tested and which skills are considered significant to the test are decisions rooted in socioeconomic context and with a lot of assumptions. So on the one hand which skills are considered "part of intelligence" is not a culturally-neutral or class-neutral judgment, and on another the tests seem to take things like executive functioning for granted. I've talked to a few psychologists (friends, family and colleagues) who said that overall "IQ" is basically useless, but unusually large differences among subscores can indicate some neurodivergence or point of struggle.
@@M_M_ODonnell I fear, and feared when I was at school, that this approach works only to the benefit of those who value personal gain over any meaningful social awareness. During the times I've been an "achiever" as an adult I've been in constant conflict over what I consider to be basic decency. As you say, IQ is a very limited measure that is taken out of proportion by many people. It is oh so easy to "Barnham" your way to success if you see things early that most others do not. Limited prescience is limited, but beguiling when wielded. I am not sure who I may have become if I lent into shutting down empathy and embraced the prejudices our society is built on. We, as ND people, have a different perspective on the world; embracing diversity must include rejecting elitism in all it's forms. It feels very much like a lot of the strange rhetoric we are seeing, on most fronts, are an attempt to keep us divided through categorisation. Abelism is alive and well. I'm proud that there are places to be found in the ND community, along with many others, where this is being challenged.
Thankyou for taking the time to reply, it's comforting to be heard. It often feels to me that these are things we can not change, whilst there is recognition and light there is hope.
Ni laboras por la homoj kaj la mondo, la espero estas delikata kaj altvalora.
@@steveclews1818 Part of my usual response is insisting on not referring to IQ as a "measure" _at all_ -- exactly because it's not a measurement of an existing property, it's a selective grouping of certain traits into a single category of questionable validity and writing tests nominally linked to subsets of that category where the primary concern is producing a normal distribution of scores. When it's useful at all it's by accident, and it's hard not to suspect that the tendency of the scoring to particularly value middle-class and upper-class Western neurotypical people is to a significant degree either deliberate or deliberately uncorrected.
@@M_M_ODonnell I was bought up in white, middle class, family. It may well be a part of why I was able to score so well on IQ tests. My father put a lot of value in them and spent a lot of time teaching me his way of thinking. A lot of it was based in engineering and useful, I suspect a lot of it was teaching me to mask effectively. It is truly rare for people and institutions to change things which benefit them.
not you actually getting up a tree😭😭😭 man your videos always bright up my day I can't explain it but they make me feel hopeful about my life, maybe because I haven't found any autustic friends in real life and because your videos make me think "well maybe I'm not so dumb?" or "oh so this was totally normal?" I appreciate it:)
❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you for your vulnerability and the time and work you put into your great channel! I’m sure you are helping many beyond just myself.
I was formally diagnosed this year at age 36. Tested high IQ during my evaluation, but I look around and life seems easier for most people. Learning I had higher IQ felt equally empowering and discouraging- how could I be ‘so smart’ and ‘so bad’ at most daily / practical things? I have a loving wife and wonderful neurodivergent children. I often remind them that they are fine-tipped paint brushes expected to sweep floors, but you couldn’t paint the Mona Lisa with a broom. Fun fact- apparently DaVinci was also notorious for rarely finishing anything he started, even when paid a commission. Helps me feel slightly better about myself, but I still have a family to provide for. Well wishes to all.
Great video, as part of being diagnosed with a Learning Disability in school I was given an IQ test, this showed a verbal IQ of 140 and a written IQ of 115. so I had a learning disability while also being „above average“ intelligence. This confounded many teachers. IQ and the relationship with IQ is also very complex and not linear.
Additionally I’m pretty certain that I am also autistic but still trying to get a formal diagnosis
I'm really enjoying your vivid similes and metaphors and unique twists on idioms in this video. :) They add to your explanation, with useful and interesting juxtapositions.
I appreciate all the work you put into your videos. Thanks for sharing.
Brilliant as ever...a clear example of why your channel has taken off so quickly. Your voice has found it's purpose 🧡
I agree. Mike is my favourite person voicing his thoughts on autism and neurodivergence. Not only because of his love of cats but mainly because of his ability to understand what needs to be communicated, his ability to analyse and think critically and avoid the need to come across any certain way on today’s social media paradigms. So pleased he is able to do what he does. Long may it continue. 🎉
@@Sdween Absolutely!
Awww 😭😭, thanks Wendy
Excellent information, Mike!
I didn't realize that for a lot of that data, NTs got to self report their IQ; wild.
The iPhone parody had me laughing!
Yeah, it's the lack of representation for self identified autists that gets me. Those will generally (necessarily?) sit in >70 IQ range. Meaning, not learning difficulties. The other thing that I'm struggling with is the 'autism mom' push on 'Profound Autism' which intentionally limits and subdivides autism not into two categories, but three!
=50 & 70IQ autistic groups....
Thanks for being here as always, @ZSchrink!
Ha, I just watched Quinn's video about giftedness today. Interesting that you guys posted these videos so close together.
Excited to watch this one, too.
EDIT: For those who aren't familiar yet, Quinn's channel is called Autistamatic, and the video I mentioned is called "Young, Gifted, and Lost."
I had no idea that Quinn and I coincidentally overlapped! We didn't collaborate or even discuss these topics with each other, so that's kinda fun! I enjoyed his video on giftedness, too!
@@Autistic_AF Great minds think alike. 😀🌈♾️
(I still get a smile when I think of the giggling footage you guys included in that video where you hung out together on a park bench.)
Now you need your own Cabin in the tree so you have your human version of a cosy cat tree
Totally! I need an a person with 'the woodworking autisms'.
@@CanisLupus1987 Yes!!!
Would be awesome
I don't like mental acceleration being called giftedness because it isn't clairvoyant powers, telepathy, or precognitive abilities which would be 'gifteness'. With that or assumed to have others get preferential treatment at your expense and can attract narcissistic abuse by professionals who think they can get away with almost anything weaponising. There may be class bias in IQ testing when doing the tests. I had a WAIS test in 1988 when I was in a day clinic trying to deal with childhood trauma. They lied to me and put my medicine on maximum dose of carbamazepine in addition to ethosuccimide immediately before the IQ test. Likely too scared that a person from a working class family could get an IQ within the above average/mentally accelerated range against the stereotype of the working class. That bias magnified when autism is included meant no matter how I done it wouldn't been good enough to score a lot higher than the average score. Not really ethical to get a person intoxicated on strong central nervous system depressants just so an autistic person can score lower on an IQ test.
Boiling down intellect to a single "IQ" number is akin to boiling down the climate system to an "average temperature" number.
Mike, you are so adept at putting a point clearly and succinctly across while also being witty, and this is why I love your videos so much. Exams were always a nightmare for me too, the sensory overwhelm of hearing every tiny noise from other students breathing (how very dare they!), the scratching of pens on paper, to the ticking of the clock on the wall. It was enough to completely distract me from concentrating on the questions and the answers I was supposed to be writing. Also, a person's worth being measured by a written IQ test has always greatly annoyed me. As you so rightly said, there are many different ways of showing intelligence and being intelligent.
ok, so hang on- I'm confused: Generally in the US they separate things like dyslexia and dyscalclia (learning disabilities here) from intellectual disabilities (IQ/intelligence/function here). At least that seems to be the public perception that most get that words and numbers not staying still is a different matter from general smarts.
I may have this perception because I have mild dyslexia, severe dyscalclia, and test an average of 144 IQ. (first tested in 3rd grade to figure out what was wrong with me. Dude determined I was extremely gifted, bored, and very annoyed to be missing saturday morning cartoons for stupid tests, and just wasn't applying myself. I'm sure today they would have pinged me as AuDHD and saved me much grief, but in the early 1980s in Arkansas that wasn't a thing *sigh* Neither was dyscalclia. I still have trauma.)
I'm probably just having a cultural language barrier misunderstanding here, or a nit-pick, as I can tell we're overarchingly on the same page as usual.
(and yeah on the Unpredictable Gifted Spiky Skillset being a pain)
I’m from the 1990s and even during my time. They just thought of autism as somebody who rocks back-and-forth at least in my neck of the woods. They only diagnosed me with ADD, and dyslexia auditorial processing disorder and said I was slow. Funny thing was the teachers were always confused. They don’t know how I figured out the answers on my work. I would somehow do math in my head that I hadn’t learnt yet and the teacher would look at me and be like how did you get the answer? If you can’t tell me, I’m gonna flunk this test and then I just said well I just did this and it felt right and he literally shut the hell up after that he was like so you’re telling me you went for books ahead of us and you somehow did this math that you have no knowledge of and you were able to do it without anybody or information and I just looked at them. I said yes very awkwardly. I don’t know. It just seem like this seems right.
Then I created a math problem that combines every single bit of math within my high school year meaning the math problem was a three-dimensional shape that combined every single bit of math we had learnt within the entirety of of the year. Everything within the book that comes to a final conclusion, but the teacher said he wouldn’t use it For the final exam because he didn’t want to flunk his class but yeah I could not read to save my life but I can read. I think I read at least a high school level, but it makes no sense that I read a high school level but then yet I am pretty sure even a masters degree Academic professor could actually hold a full-blown seminar with me and I’m pretty sure I could actually shake their feathers. 🪶 lol oh and I forgot to mention at least I think I did. I’m also high functioning autism.
Kind of yes, but kind of no. We essentially have two different classes of things that get called 'learning difficulties', which essentially seem to boil down to 'stuff that makes school hard'. The OED definition for 'learning difficulties' is "Difficulty in acquiring knowledge and skills; an instance of this, or factor causing this; esp. (chiefly British) (frequently in plural) such difficulty or difficulties arising from a neurodevelopmental condition, esp. intellectual disability or a learning disorder; the neurodevelopmental condition itself."
But note that the phrase with this meaning is 'learning difficulties'.
'Learning disability', in contrast, is more specifically used to refer to what you call 'intellectual disabilities' (IQ/intelligence/function). The OED definition for 'learning disability' is "A disability that affects the acquisition of knowledge and skills; (in later use) spec. a neurodevelopmental condition that has this effect, esp. (a) (chiefly British) intellectual disability; (b) (chiefly U.S.) a specific learning disorder."
So, in Britain, the meaning of 'learning disability' = 'intellectual disability', but the phrase 'learning disability' is also used in the US with a different meaning.
Unfortunately, given the wishy-washyness of 'difficulties' as a term, I can imagine that people may either 1) not realise the difference between 'learning difficulties' and 'learning disabilities' or 2) think 'disabilities' is the more scientific term for the same thing.
I do think there are issues with the way the terms are used in the UK, especially with how our language use might relate to the extent to which we judge people as 'stupid', and devalue them, for a wide range of significantly different things which mean they do less well in school but do not necessarily relate to each other. I also think that categorising things like dyslexia as a learning difficulty is problematic, as it implies that dyslexia creates a problem with learning - when to my knowledge, if we had an oral culture and formal learning was not reliant on printed/written language, then dyslexia would not cause difficulty learning. This, of course, touches on the social model of disability, and it seems to me that by talking about dyslexia a 'learning difficulty' we are simply saying that dyslexic kids will simply naturally struggle with learning, rather than acknowledging that traditional teaching styles may not suit the way they learn, and there are things that can be done about that.
I love music, the louder, the better. I hate random (e.g. traffic) noise, it drives me completely crazy.
Excellent video, glad to have found this channel. Despite endless hours of ontopic videos nobody talked about the IQ distribution of AUDHD people yet, at least not that I am aware of.
How about allowing autistic people to become experts and excel in exactly the specific area in which they feel most comfortable, and simply ignore all these tests, which often only last a few decades until they are completely scientifically outdated?
I have ADHD and HFA, Have an IQ between 104 in stress to and 123 while young and calm.. But this video is quite nice, A good piece of information, and makes me Glad that you continue to speak the TRUTH!
@@gregd806 I am a Mensa member and I did an IQ Test for my autism diagnosis. I didn’t sleep enough and it was very early in the morning, plus I had to drive in the morning traffic beforehand. I just hit 101 points.
@@gregd806 stress vs iq would be a amazing study if it hasn't been done properly before. Especially if you include severe poverty like that faced when one is genuinely worried about basic survival, getting their next meal.
With neurotypical people it is likely severe stress like that can occur without as much real danger (just noise, social situation and pressure) so probably but simply having a idea about its effect would be huge
@@krokovay.marcell serious question, if you had family stress at home and were genuinely worried about simple but crucial things like just finding enough to eat/feed family do you think it could of dipped even lower?
Excellent video! I am 65 with a measured IQ 135. I didn’t learn to read until I was 12. I was diagnosed at that time with ADHD and Tourette’s. The ADHD had a different name at the time. Anyway high IQ, not learning to read until 12. Autism diagnoses years later. I think the IQ test I had as a child let them know I had a learning disability and was able to learn, just that I learn differently. Fortunately I had an amazing Teacher who helped find out how I learned. She totally changed my trajectory. I love your videos, thanks for all of your hard work.
Thanks, for doing the research.
And thanks for making, and posting this video Mike.
My daughter is a self diagnosed autistic.
I learn so much from your Chanel.
I just found your channel through this video. I'm also late diagnosed with hypersensitivity to noises, along with some audio processing issues, which makes things like audiobooks or podcasts nearly impossible to follow. Back in my 20s I had my IQ formally assessed by MENSA at 155, but I declined to join after I found out they required a membership fee (I was incensed that my IQ alone wasn't good enough to get me membership, and I have since learned how problematic that entire organization is).
I was an education major in college and Howard Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences was all the rage in my university program at the time (early 90s). I honestly think he was on to something, because it makes a lot more sense that some people are more intelligent in some areas more than others and even those who have a purported "low IQ" can still be really intelligent at things that I'm terrible at.
That was a very well constructed video about a very complex and nuanced subject. I enjoyed it, thank you.
I was unaware that the IQ distribution for autists was like that, I had assumed it was going to be the same as the NT distribution.
I also have "the facial recognition of a 6-8 yr old" and I can recite Pie as far as fat, flour & cold water, but then I'll need to know what filling you fancy😉
Great video as always Mike & well worth the extra week's wait👍
real shit. my facial recognition never got past like a 6 year old while i can somehow recite 117 digits of pi and do relatively complex math in my head really fuckin fast.... somehow
You two might have prosopagnosia (also called face blindness). It's actually not that rare (about 1 in 50 people have it).
@@jesskcanada oh no i totally have it and its very common as an autism thing for some reason
@@tristantheoofer2 really? That is super interesting. I've known about my face blindness for many years but am only now figuring out that I'm probably autistic
@ yep :0
learned about it a few years ago
Oh my YES. Commenting first just on the thumbnail. Been rethinking that EXACT thing all week! Observations of a life time, anecdotally, I would expect "two peaks" of IQ with ASD. My own IQ test scores, over a 60 year span, have varied by 84 points. As you have sited. BEAUTIFUL, beautiful, beautiful video.
Is worth noting the definition of autism has expanded quite a bit, which may be why the curve shifted from 1/2 to 1/3. People with more extreme symptoms were more likely to be diagnosed, particularly under older diagnostic criteria.
What a lot of people don't realize is you can study for an IQ test. Just to add to all the other flaws with the test mentioned in this video
Yes - I was just thinking this earlier too. Absolutely you can study for an IQ test. Great point. -Mike
It makes a huge difference. When I took my second IQ test, I was a fanatic sudoku and logic puzzle player, which helped me boost my score.
Reading this comment section is comforting. Knowing that there are other AuDHD who have dyscalculia and crap working memories. The stereotype that we are amazing at maths and have superior memories just simply isn’t accurate. It is like people fail to understand that it is a large spectrum. It is also important to note that many of us have suffered continuous trauma which is known to affect the parts of the brain that deal with memory. Thanks for the video!!
So true my strengths are in English and History and the performing arts
I as an autistic woman without an intellectual disability had an IQ test done as part of an needed updated psychological testing in the Fall 2009 semester at the Regents Center for Learning Disorders (RCLD) located on the Georgia State University (GSU) Atlanta, GA Campus and in the next Spring 2010 semester i found at the RCLD located on the GSU Atlanta, GA campus told me that I have a low normal IQ. My former OT (occupational therapist) in the past told me that IQ test for people with disabilities like me are flawed and for some reason I sometimes do bad on tests that are just presented in an auditory way and with tests that are just essay tests as well. I have since been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder (general in my case), an auditory processing disorder (APD) known as an integration disorder mostly in a weak auditory working memory, a language processing disorder (also known as a mixed receptive-expressive language disorder in my case) and a spoken language disorder on top of my autism without an intellectual disability here in Georgia (state in the USA and not the country located near Russia).
Yes, I am commenting before finishing the video because i had to pause to feed a cockatoo! This is a valid excuse.
I WANT A CHOCOLATE TEA POT!!! A nice thick one. In fact a few so I can do experiments on how thick it needs to be to still vaguely function a tea pot. Does it help to freeze it first like deep fried icecream??? Oh, and yes, once experiments are done. Time to munch chocolate. OK, back to the video 😅 🫖 🍫
I would, honestly, like a chocolate teapot, too! For culinary purposes, y'understand! ('as much use as a chocolate teapot' was a very common saying during my childhood (1980's). It actually took me many years until I realised what it meant; a teapot on a stove melting everywhere! I thought, 'chocolate teapot - sweet!' in a 'chocolate rabbit' and 'chocolate santa' way....
@@Autistic_AFI don't think that saying ever made it to Oz. Other Aussies, let me know if I am wrong.
I didn't think of the stove top method, just the pour boiling water into the tea pot method. I have no wish to experiment with a chocolate teapot on my stove 🙀
Never heard of it - NZ
@@AstridSouthSea 🌿
1:16 no! You can't make me!
I wouldn't call myself high IQ or genius, but the myths that bother me the most about autism is that it either makes you intellectually impaired inherently, or it makes you fully capable of being independent if you're even of average intelligence. I'm a young adult, and currently there's so much pressure from my family to learn how to drive and get a job, and I'm afraid to tell anyone how impaired I really am because they wouldn't believe me or dismiss it. Then this leads into how difficult it is to get disability benefits for mental issues like autism...
I am Autistic and have Autistic friends and colleagues who have diagnosis of intellectual disability. They're incredibly astute and wise and have an amazing sense of clarity. It has really made me wonder how they were given that label. They do have differences in learning and processing, and may need Easy Read format but their ability to process information is very good. I do have a friend who was given an intellectual disability label but then lost it again after it was realised it was just they are sometimes non-speaking.
Intelligence is so many things - not just shapes, language and mathematics. There is music, art, emotional, perceptual kinds of intellect. I do very well on IQ tests and get 135-145 (when I'm well). But I can't follow a sports game at all as I can't process fast moving visual information. As an indigenous person I come from a culture that honours the unique gifts each person has. Standardised testing is bizarrely reductionist.
There are different types of intelligences. I believe your friends are intelligent, but may not do as well on IQ tests. I don't think those tests truly represent their intelligence or who they are. These are awful labels, and ways of testing intelligence that need deep revision. It's very hard to capture intelligence, people cannot be boxed in like that. and it may affect self esteem, and how people view them. It's awful. If someone has functional capacity challenges, and processing challenges, that is not lack of intelligence overall, and that needs to be specified with the use of labels that are fair and comprehensive. We need to celebrate people not make them look less than. Autistic people have complex ways of operating in the world that are not understood.
Great video! At age 8-9 I had to take an IQ test. My parents wanted me to go to high school (starts with 5th grade here) but my teacher said "Nope, he is interrupting, has bad handwriting and besides maths just average grades. Stupid kid, won't make it far." Took the test, and when the psychologist revealed the result she said, that unfortunately I took a test for adults, because they did not get the test papers in time (this was pre-internet, you had to order physical copies). If I wanted the exact value I had to redo the test. But she can say that it is above 145. Teacher was extremely upset and didn't believe my mom xD
Never bothered to take a more conclusive test. I always struggled with everyday life, never had friends, always felt stupid (maybe because classmates told me I was?). My biggest achievement was to survive to this point. Since 7 months I know I'm autistic (Thanks burnout!). It explains everything but helps nothing.
I think I'm an average autistic person, with a typical spiky skill set, and the high peaks are what typical IQ tests measure.
I have found that my diagnosis has helped me a ton. What it may lack in practical support services, disability services, etc., it makes up for psychologically. I have been feeling profoundly happy to have finally made sense of my life and experiences and to be able to feel compassion and pride instead of shame. It's basically allowed me to reframe my entire existence. Paying my bills? That's another story. Wishing you well ❤️🩹
I'm commenting before watching.
Firstly, nice to see you up a tree, Mike. 😁
Secondly, one of the reasons I knew I was different from my classmates, was that I was always top of the class at school but couldn't do my exams and assessments once I got to secondary school. No one could understand this, especially not me.
I was, and have always been told I was gifted, highly intelligent and passing Mensa tests etc, told I'd get to Oxbridge, but I couldn't study on my own, and my grades were poor.
I've always been able to intuit answers to things/puzzles/problems and it stuns people, and they think me smart.
However, ask me how I know how and why I know the answer, and I often don't know my workings-out, as it were.
Put me in a university and I can do hard things.
Give me every day things to do, and I'm often absolutely stumped.
I require, and receive, social care every week.
I'm also one of the UK's 80% of diagnosed autists without paid work - yet I'm supposed to be gifted.
Autism intelligence, in fact all intelligence, is not linear or unifacited.
You are bringing up very valid points
Cheers!
I love your use of similes and analogies. I frequently use them as well and it’s refreshing to hear that I’m not just “wierd.”
I think I had an IQ test as a teenager, where I scored 109.
-Pretty average and it is totally acceptable.
Most often people talking about IQ have an average of 160, when self-reported.
-Where as it should be 100.
Either I am surrounded by genius or dishonesty, when it comes to the estimation of ones own intelligence.
You mean projecting a complex yet vague thing like intelligence into a single value can create misleading results and misunderstanding? /S
Excellent video Mike, your ability to condense these complicated topics is impressive.
Thank you for making this video.
You have the right to be mentally healthy and take care yourself, and seek help of you need it. I hope you will manage your stressful situation
Just found this, yes I am writing early in the video… just want to say your humor made me want to watch the entire video.
I’m Autistic, based on the few IQ tests I took, I’m somewhere between 125-130. I still have struggles in life, specifically around social things, and ngl, when it comes to the process surrounding medical care (applying for things, how they ask some questions on official forms, being mixed white/Hispanic, but my options available are Hispanic and white non Hispanic despite being both)
There are things I excel in hands down, but I dont see myself as some invincible genius. For me, a lot of my issues have to do with my severe anxiety and it becoming too overwhelming. I’m about to get health care and doctors for the first time in almost 16 years because the process where I am is so convoluted and there are so many stipulations and different requirements where I meet some but not all, so I qualify for some things, but not others so I’m not eligible based on technicalities.
People around me my whole life would insult me because they’d say things like “how could you be so intelligent, but struggle with this? This should be so easy for you!” And when I try to explain the responses are I’m just being lazy, I’m willfully ignorant, I just dont care, I’m just trying to be difficult.”
And I dont use my IQ to see how intelligent I am, I take them every so often just to keep my brain stimulated and to keep my mind engaged. It’s more about seeing if my abilities are improving, if I’m staying the same, if I’m not working my brain enough. I like to keep my brain active. Alzheimers runs in my family and a lot of my family have gotten it pretty early in life, so I’m hoping by keeping my mind engaged and challenged, it will hopefully take more time for it to effect me later in life. Usually may family started showing signs in their mid 50’s, that’s only about 20 years for me, and I dont want to end up like that forgetting everything and everyone I know so early in life. And I cant imagine my wife waking up one day and I dont recognize her, and she wants kids, I dont want to start forgetting my family and friends early in life.
I dont care really about the intelligence part, I care about being and staying myself for as long as I can.
My IQ test I did as a teenager came back normal ( 110 ), but visual memory was at 140 while math was at 80. I'm either really good or really bad at something. Confused teachers in school a lot.
same dude. im either cracked at something (iq over 120 or 130) or so bad it would put me into a special ed class
I became to this conclusion just yesterday! 😮 It's awesome to randomly come to the same conclusion about the same time, as someone else somewhere else.😊
During this mood stabilizer induced burnout I'm going through, I've regressed so bad. I wasn't able to store information and use it the way I have built my brain to store and use it. The symptoms are like those after a stroke. I just learned how much dyspraxia has to do with how I learn, store and use information to function - and why I have to gradually build my skills up, from basic things I've learned as a kid to a full grown adult.
I've built too difficult system for anyone ever understand but now I have an autistic doctor that understands me, even if I can't use the right words in a right tone. I felt validated because I didn't have to mask (as much) and was treated as fellow human being - rather than infantilized because the person listening can't understand me.
I'm still vary about trusting them, because I've been gaslighted so many times by so many healthcare workers - but first time in years I feel like I can breath a little easier and I have some hope to recover my awesome system. I still feel like I'm intelligent but just can't express it.
I was just thinking about all those people, who could create wonderful new things for world but can't bring their ideas out. That's a way to start a new day with a good cry. I just need to make my brains work to finally start writing a book or two and maybe try to inform people about how differently people categorise information. Brains have always been interesting and I have understood my calling finally - to research not only how other people work, to prepare my mask but to research my own brain to be more me and maybe help someone else with that information.(Don't ask what this means. I don't know that yet. At this point I'm just writing to make a note to my own brain, that I'll understand one day.)
I'm addicted to that feeling, when you wake up and lying there, you realize that a new connection has been made and new information/skill has been learned. Just like waking up one morning and you suddenly learn how to read. That's why I don't see people, who try to change others without changing anything in their own programming, as intelligent.
I’m commenting before finishing the video. Just to say- I like your language choice of “late identified autistic adult”
I learned that I have been living with ADHD when I was 29 years old. But I like the word “identified” rather than “diagnosed” because a diagnosis carries some extra weight around it being a bad thing. And adhd in my life does pose certain challenges for me. But it isn’t inherently a bad thing.
Thanks for that. Okay I’ll finish the video now.
I have been tested many times, both as a child and as an adult. I got different results each and every time. I studied psychology in College and I learned to hate IQ scores. IQ scores are compared to others your age. Meaning your score is either higher or lower compared to those born the same year as you. It is not compared to the general populations. IQ is also fluid in the childhood and more crystalized as adults, meaning adults have harder time to "learn" new things. This is why your IQ fluctuates over time. They were originally designed to test which children needed more support in school and those who don't. It didn't have much to do with actual inteligence, but your ability to learn. My special interest is knowledge and learning, which has kept me from getting a formal diagnosis, since I'm "too smart" to be autistic.
One thing that really pisses me off is the intelectual disability = autism part. Allistic, aka neurotypical, people can also be intelectually disabled. What really boils my blood is so many people equating the inability to communicate verbally as intelectual disability or low IQ. My son is diagnosed with AuDHD and speech impediments. His psychologist wanted to diagnose him with low IQ because "he wouldn't communicate normally and keep eye contact". What she basically said that if a child does not speak the way an allistic adult does, they're stupid. This from a child psychologist. With that logic, all non-verbal, deaf and mute children have 0 IQ. I had to set the reccord straight, yet she persisted on her assessment that my son, who at 6 years old having been non-verbal and had just learned to talk, has low IQ. He was holding 2 hour lectures on internal structures and workings of the human body by then. Random strangers have noted that it is impressive that an 8 year old can so fluently discuss the Schengen agreement and how EU works and bilateral trade agreeements. His special interests switches every 2-3 years. It is currently flags, countries, borders, international politics and regional history.
While trying to get assessed for Autism myself, the psychologist I met said that I can't be autistic nor have ADHD, inattentive type, since I did so well in school. Or that I can't possibly be autistic since I have no issues communicating, and other inaccurate assessments. Especially since the RAADS test gave me a really low score every time I did it. This time around I got a high schore, well above the cut off score since a friend helped me expelain what these questions mean. I would interpet them literally and thus answer accordingly. I don't flap my hands infront of my face so 0 points. I do on the other hand stim, which is what this question asks, so 5 points. Quess what got her to finally agree to put me on the wait list for an official autism assessement? The fact that I knew where their box for questionnaires is. A white letter box, at the enterence, on a white wall with tiny text "put your questionnaires here please". Obviously my ability to notice detalis is the only reason I could be autistic.
@@SailorYuki So many professionals who don't know what they're talking about
As an Autistic, and get nearly no sport, I find my work refuse to made any changes that change my ever climbing targets, I can't remember what some one said two minutes ago but do remember opening my eyes as a new born, can't really use a computer as I haven't finished learning bbc basic yet and they changed quicker then I could, by the time I learn computer bits there's an update:-( by the time i find a product on the shelf i like the picking changes my brain is so slow at learning its unbelievable for most to except. So I get left behind. But always remember the oddest things. The world won't change and suicide has been near , get life is a wonderful thing so I push on. Unfortunately the rest of society don't seem to have the same view.
I sat the official mensa exam in my mid 20s and scored 136. Tested again this year at age 54 and scored 143. I plough all my brain power into my art but I'm not much use in other areas of daily life. Never had my autism picked up at school as I found lessons and exams were fine, my school reports just always labelled me as the quiet kid. My two autistic children were classed as gifted at school and were chosen to teach children in younger years below them. My children were both diagnosed autistic in their early 20s and also slipped through the system.
I am diagnosed with Autism. Though I can learn complex things with great detail, I lack intuitive learning capabilities. I have the tendency to, as some have told me, "overanalyze" or "overexplain". This means that I can view technical information without a problem, but struggle with intuitive or simple concepts as described by others.
I imagine IQ as a multidimensional scale. One single measurement cannot represent you as a whole. It's rather an interplay of many different intelligences inside of you. Furthermore, intelligence can also exist outside of you. You are more likely to be or become intelligent with someone intelligent around you or an intelligently designed environment (e.g. books, internet access, no food shortage).
In the UK we tend to assume that people with autism have an intellectual impairment. That came from the previous split between autism and Asperger's in the diagnostic process. My diagnosis for autism scored very highly, but I don't have an intellectual impairment. I have had two incidents where employers would not make adaptations because they didn't accept my diagnosis. The first of those went legal and ended very badly for them as they had put it in writing. The second one happened just as I was retiring but I pursued it post retirement and won my case. No monetary award but they won't do it again. My advice: join a trade union.
Fantastic discussion. Thanks Mike
Before I watch the whole video and forget, I wanted to say I like your tree! The bark pattern looks neat!
Thank you! It's a cherry tree!
I wanted to say I really like your face and hands. I don't know why, they're just very nice to look at. They're friend shaped?
Yes! I found myself watching his hand gestures a lot in this video. Friendly hands.
thanks, this motivates me to submit additional applications for testing instead of "waiting out" the next 12 residual months of the list
I could choose to buy a book because it had a particularly beautiful ISBN code. A friend of my father's used to select books by going to booksellers and sniffing the glues of each volume. If he was fond of a particular glue he would buy the book. I think it was the same gentleman who invented the anaesthetic used by dentists to this day. (I think they were one and the same gentleman, that his nickname was Peje and he was definitely Swedish.) That gentleman would test the chemicals he developed on himself by sticking his tongue into them. When he had mixed the compound that is still used today as I mentioned, and dropped his tongue into the glass, he could no longer feel it. That's how he knew he was onto a winner.
Im pre emptively liking this. Don't have the time to watch so giving love in case it never shows again.
Your dolphin analogy- perfect. Iq is a sham, based on assumptions of cultural importance. That's a far as i got
Extremely interesting and informative video. I feel like autism is, like you said, something that presents in peaks. On one side, you have profound autism with IQ below 50, or you have 100 or above (often well above) IQ with little in between.
I have realized that my child and I are likely some form of dyslexic. I noticed when working with her with homework that she had a hard time telling if a letter or number was written correctly. We had to work much harder to be able to tell. I basically have to compare tge dhape to other similar shapes. If you give me letter cutouts, especially of a letter like capital E, I can't tell how they are supposed to go. Putting up the sign at work was so tough that I had to have what I needed to put up written down in order to get it right.
I will also mix my words up sometimes while saying them, like "flute smooddies" instead of "fruit smoothies" and if you ask me to turn right or left at any given time, who knows what direction I will end up going. They actually feel the same to me. I wouldn't even know what a crossed directional sense is even called. I couldn't tell you north from south or east from west. I also have to think and use a scar on one of my hands to distinguish right from left. Thank god for gps.
I feel there MUST be an important distinction made between learning and intellectual disabilities-- between problems with HOW learning happens or highly defined sharp shortfalls seen in conventional intelligence (learning disabilities) and people with more generalized intellectual slowness and mental limitedness (Intellectual disabilities). There's probably also something to be defined here about what can reasonably be considered a damaged or lacking/unfinished human brain in a thinking person. Everybody deserves humanity, but, in a world that tends to get people wrong, I'm looking for language to help keep myself out of a vaguely-defined melting pot of "humans who brain different". Intellectual disabilities, learning disabilities, social disabilities and mental health disabilities all get blobbed heartlessly together, when we can't meaningfully explain and separate them to lazy-thinking powerful people, who don't want more work handling anybody. I'm all for standing with everybody who struggle any-which-way but that blob-think of diversity is the opposite of useful to anybody.
It's so painful to try to describe myself in these term -- against a backdrop of terror because people can easily assume that what any of these labels mean is that I have an obviously slow mind with gaps in it that is sure to be a problem. So it become vital to understand exactly this stuff around IQ, but I'm not sure I am clear yet - particularly on where I fit here. Maybe I'm an outlier?
I have a Nonverbal Learning Disability (NVLD) which partially means that I have some troubles with nonverbal communication (fits well with likely being on the autism spectrum as well). But I compensate with more and more advanced spoken language - not generally how people think about communication with autism. I have above normal IQ in a lot of areas until, in the areas of time, space, numbers and math, my mental abilities plummet sharply. I remember being told that that kind of abrupt and massive imbalance in mental ability in what would otherwise be a normal to above-average thinker in the IQ test's way of getting at ability is what learning disabilities tend to look like, on paper IQ tests. If this really is the case, it would be a relief to be able to insist that I need at least a normal IQ even to HAVE a learning disability, and that the imbalance inherent in my brain is absolutely distinct from the intellectual disability community.
Intellectual disability, to me, applies to people with brains that are noticeably slower, won't mentally mature past certain life stages or are damaged or missing stuff. In general, my brain just functions differently in HOW it learns and copes, not it's overall capacity. I'd like to have love and respect for people with intellectual disabilities, while insisting that learning disabilities are not any kind of extrapolation of what those people deal with.
And yet there are whole areas of knowledge where my brain seems permanently slower and to be missing the thing that makes the learning work for others in a way that suggests something absent or damaged from some unknown cause. This create deep terror in me. I think I wouldn't mind having my debilitating intellectual shortfalls if I could find enough proven knowledge to tell people, "Learning disabilities are NOT synonymous with intellectual disabilities any more than my autism is necessarily related to either of those things. Intellectually disabled people deserve humanity, but they are not in the same category as me in most meaningful ways."
Even in the careful explanation here, though, I can't quite find that distinction, either for learning disabilities in general, or as perhaps I should define it to others for me specifically.
I don't believe that people diagnosed with ID are truly lacking in intelligence. Such a label seems actually quite abusive, and smacks of eugenics. If you follow the psychologist Gardner you will realize that there can be different types of intelligences besides IQ type of intelligence. People with IDs can make great artists, may have emotional intelligence or be very intuitive, or good with their hands, musical etc, etc. We cannot capture someone's consciousness and put a label on it to fit that individual into a social box. Unfortunately, it is done. People are seen for their deficits rather than for their gifts. You cannot truly understand the inner workings, and intelligences of someone, you cannot capture and define these personal elements. Labelling is a form of oppression that has been justified by the medical sector, which supports subjective cultural norms that support the status quo. I think there may be many autistic people that develop skills through their special interests, and this way of establishing a skill set may not be conducive to the content and expectations of IQ tests.
I heard things like learning disabilities are part of the Autism spectrum, as in when disgnosed it's something to consider in screening. It may be there or it may not, but it's considered "Autistic" in this regard.
I believe Russell Barkley in that I think it's largely an issue where people who are on the big decision making end having to answer hard "yes or no" to certain questions. It's not an "issue" issue, just where some frustration may be aimed at. When moving forward, one thing has to be prioritized over everything else for a time.
That's where videos like these come in good. We get to keep taking the time to ask "Yeah but what about this, and how about that?" because videos can come out sooner than the researchers can finish studies, and lawmakers passing bills.
Your Camera was so determined to catch a glimpse of that painting behind you! :D
[7:07]
I knoooooowwwww - the only thing I changed this time was using an external recorder so I don't know why the AF (Autofocus) was hunting around like that. Sorry!
@@Autistic_AF Don’t apologize for that! It’s a talking head video, so the camera being autistic AF doesn’t really change the content… 🥰👐And it's not your fault that my AuDHD brain immediately fixates on the focusing, making sure I catch it every single time! Ten minutes later, I realize that even though it's a fun activity, I can’t keep up with both the focus and the content. So, I write a silly comment, scrub back to the beginning, and listen again... because after all, it’s a talking head video, not 'count the frames where the painting behind the TH-camr is in focus!'🥰
I have ADHD (no autism diagnosis). I had to take an IQ test as part of my evaluation. One section (verbal reasoning) was far above everything else, and another section (the visual side) was significantly below. It's really fascinating how we break IQ tests.
Oh man, called out, typing before watching. It's just in case I forget later! I often edit it, but most the time I just click the next video LOL.
For the algorithm!
I'm in agreement, and watching this a second time is proving helpful.
Still, i would like to lend this space my own words.
The peak in the 'lower' is people who got treated brutally by circumstance of being different and circumstantially un-privileged COUPLED WITH man many many people who aren't NECESSARILY "born autistics" but find themselves utilising concrete, step-by-step, & "monkey-see/monkey-tinker" (instead of "herd-following/get yourself invited") reasoning because of a myriad of reasons INCLUDING damaged, quashed, or stagnated abilities or even just by way of 'having a limp, a lisp, or an awkwardness that is unrelated' to autism OR disability. And finding themselves branching out into 'what works for the outcast'; intelligent or nay, brain-injured from the womb or nay. Lumped in with us tho they may be clever chameleons. Or wounded ones.
Having the data skewed terribly against them and continuing to obscure our path to progress as well.
In the future we will have more appreciation for these peoples struggles rather than lumping them in with autistic-born personalities and disadvantaging both. Just like in the old days when boys who didn't do well in school were all sent into mechanics, labour or farming. Nowdays we know that it is school itself which disadvantages boys, even the ones who would excel better in medicine or law, or authorship, architecture, or business. etc. If you have an awkwardness you're not always 'either autistic OR damaged, OR both, Or unintelligent, infact many people who dont test "fluently" (/timed against the clock) are the MOST intelligent whether particularly autistic (Task-fastened) or particularly Attention-fastened).
'Smart' is the Art of Slave & Master. Competitive intellect. It's what IQ REALLY measures; & tests in general.
Competition orientated.
'Intelligent' is not Competition orientated, it is *Introspective* intelligence.
And then there's *Clever*. Clever is sporting acumen.
Any of these can be practised, and there's likely to be more.
But the tortoise does the best job in the end. If we don't halt their development at every turn in favour of quicker cats.
And even sometimes 'tho we do'.
My iq components range between 9th and 99th percentiles. I think it's useful to see your strengths and weaknesses more than it's valuable to get the composite number. People don't want to hear it if your composite number is high anyway.
My brother is autistic and has a learning disability, he struggles with stuff like math and writing but damn is he good at making complex geometry dash levels haha. I really do think that he has intelligence in unique areas
I’m becoming more and more of a proponent of school needing to be places for people to discover and nurture their talents. It’s really starting to kick in, as I am now searching for tertiary education that doesn’t have anything to do with the subjects I had at high school. Sure, I was able to get good enough grades to graduate and be eligible for uni and all… but it turns out I’m not really going to use much of that acquired knowledge at all. That’s not where my special interests, nor my strengths lie. And uni isn’t either. I can envision so many more autistic people flourishing if their talents and interests were pinpointed and nurtures quite early on. But if we just do everything the way neurotypicals do, we will probably stumble and fall. So many things will be actively working against us. We have big discrepancies in our skill sets. We can be bad at our worst, but great at our best. It’s a worthy quest to try and get that message across to general society.
I don't have a formal diagnosis of autism. Over the years I've aced IQ tests and the like and I've got higher education qualifications.
The problem I've then run into is one rather immature boss (and I've heard of plenty of others like him) saying, "You're supposed to be so smart but you're not much use," (or words to that effect). From where I was sitting I was in a new environment and I'd only been told half the rules and I was somehow supposed to know the other half. In at least one case, the rule was the exact opposite of what it had been in my previous workplace.
I was forced to take some kind of psyche test towards the end of 2012 and at that time I was a mother to two small children [and had a low blood sugar level and felt as though I could easily pass out at any time] and none of the answers made any sense to me. It was extremely stressful being in that situation and my current situation in life is definitely still impacted by what my now ex [of nearly 12 years] managed to use to keep me alienated from my sons. They were 5 years old and 15 months old when they were ripped right out of my life. They are now 17 and 13 years old.
(Obligatory not autistic, but formally diagnosed neurodivergent) This is so true. I didn't take the IQ test until I was an adult. I scored average. But I was 130 or 135 in verbal IQ (memory?) and 74 or 75 in processing speed and spatial awareness. So I'm 1/2 of a savant either way. It fits with the diagnosis I was given as a teenager. At 13, a vision doctor diagnosed me with Saccadic Dysfunction (involuntary eye movements) and poor eye-teaming skills (total inability to judge distances accurately). Without treatment, I probably wouldn't have been able to drive. I'm still not great at bookkeeping, long-form math, or test-taking.
my IQ is over 130, been in gifted classes since 2nd grade and always read 2 grade levels above my own. but been in SLD (specific learning disability) classes since 6th grade for math. and had a speech impediment up until 4th grade.
IQ tests also rely quite a lot on good short term memory. something that is in short supply if (like so many auties) you're also ADHD.
Exactly
*sighs* I really like the video and the thoughts presented. It only tires me to no end, that the examples for "understanding autistic peoples strengths" are always in the IT area. Yes, I am very computer affine but I never lerned to code and when I tried to, struggle with it. Before my (late) diagnosis I finished an apprenticeship as a metalworker and studied craft design. All the while struggling with finding a place were I can actually function sustainably with the skillsets and limitations that I have. Does anyone have ideas or experience with beeing autistic and finding sustainable jobs outside of IT ? It'd be helpful to know.
I was IQ tested toward end of school, 1967, and they made me resit. Apparently there was a weird discrepancy in the scoring, I don’t know exactly what, but makes sense with what you say here. I scored 147 overall. Very late (70s) diagnosis of audhd and likely dyspraxia along with ptsd. I definitely had what would be classed as learning difficulties all my life. My GP actually said I’d done well to make it this far 😂
My Friend is diagnosed with "traits of Autism", and he is yet awaiting a full ASD screening. He has about two years to wait. My Friend has always had to face challenges. My Friend also has super-intelligent giftedness, for example not only does he remember every pop song, but also the singer's names, and even the month and year it was released! My Friend has trouble engaging with others in social settings as he finds it hard to know what "small talk" they are expecting him to say. Out and about, my Friend gets unwanted attention, which he sometimes perceives as threatening. Or "angry noises" we hear. So he suffers anxiety quite a lot. I feel that my Friend has not been offered consistent health care support throughout. And he told me that before he knew me he attended an appointment with a Doctor, describing his symptoms, then this particular Doctor responded by saying "I don't understand you... How can I help you when I don't know what's wrong with you? I've got other Patients to see". I felt this was a missed opportunity to help, or to refer my Friend to a different Doctor. My Friend was left to suffer for four years when he eventually got to see another Doctor and was treated. Professionals need to be aware that people with ASD may describe things a little differently at times, and should be asked to explain, rather than be told "I don't understand you". God Bless. Love Pauline xxxxx
I have to admit, tree-accented lighting Is very elegant
I will NEVER pardon a pun
I rejoice in them.
In other areas of the world we prefer learning differences, to refer to dyslexia, discacula, etc. we say difference, because they do not affect, IQ. Although there are people who have lower IQ’s that also have dyslexia. Correlation does not equal causation.
looking to the OED (and my own experience) in britain, we usually use 'learning difficulties' as an umbrella term to refer to dyslexia, discalculia etc. + 'intellectual disabilities', whereas the phrase 'learning disabilities' usually refers more specifically to 'intellectual disabilities'.
Language is silly sometimes, but especially when it comes to talking about intelligence and learning
Neurodiverse hiring programs are a fantastic development. And increasingly sensory sensitivity is recognised. However I find that there is a complete lack of understanding of executive function challenges, which makes it difficult to get accommodations. All employers want good executive function
I honestly dont understand why IQ is still respected. Im both autistic and according to my records i got a gifted score, but Jesus Christ school whoops my tail. Just never made sense to me
When I was 12, my IQ was measured at 137, and I joined Mensa somewhere along the way. My younger brother doesn't enter the "gifted" range of IQ, but he's still slightly above average. We both have adhd. I think he should get evaluated for autism, as should I, but my symptoms are atypical. They can't decide if I have it or not. It's ironic, to be considered atypical even among autistics, but I digress.
I remember my therapist sending me to a psychiatrist for adhd medication, only for him to question me on if I even need the meds, or have adhd in the first place. He said, and I quote, "Your grades are good, aren't they?" I got the meds in the end, but that stuck with me. In elementary school, I was an all A's student, and my grades began dropping gradually a bit every year afterwards. By the time medication came into play, my grades were "average" but I always got the "You're not applying yourself" from teachers, since I was gifted. And I knew that if this trend of dropping grades continued, I would not make it to graduation (I was right). I ended up dropping out of school before getting my final diploma. (In Germany, there's three tiers of diplomas you can get, and I never finished the third.)
I think about the fact that I have "atypical" autism signs sometimes. I was diagnosed with autism once, while in a psych ward, and later that diagnosis was replaced with adhd. In the ward, I was in an unfamiliar place with people I didn't know, while also battling social anxiety and depression, and what I now recognize as cptsd. I got along with the autistic patients immediately. But when I feel comfortable in my environment, I act very differently.
My therapist, back when we worked on the adhd diagnosis, said I couldn't have autism because I was too socially skilled. I think that's what they mean with atypical autism. I thrive with people, and that's not normal. Funny how there's a normal in a spectrum defined by not being normal. It took years for me to get this good at interacting with people. The way I was at the ward was the way I had been for years. Even now, the majority of people I get along with are neurodivergent themselves.
As an AuDHDer with an 135 IQ myself I work as a psychologist in an organisation that cares for people with ID. Some of them also are autistic. IQ only is not enough to assess someones support needs.
Also, I think that by only looking at formally diagnosed autistic people, the IQ bell curve of autistic is heavily distorted, but is actually a bellcurve. But usually you only going to look for a formal diagnosis if you face problems fitting in society. If you have an ID you're going to stand out in the most of the cases, leading to the wrong assumption that half of autistic people have a low IQ. That group was diagnosed more % wise than the normal or high IQ groups. With an IQ over 2sds higher you differ as much from the majority as those with an ID. You may have the intelligence/skills to mask some of the challenges that brings, and society may be willing to put up with some of your 'quirks' (think of Einstein), but this group may want to go look for an explaination for their challanges and seek an diagnosis, so that ecplains the second peak. I project we miss a lot of autistic people that fitt right in the middle of the autistic IQ bellcurve as they haven't been formally diagnosed and maybe not ever will.
I'm desperately trying to find my strentghs and weaknesses and optimize career choice based on that.
I know I have a very uneven profile with garbage abstraction skills (very broad concept so it is not self-explanatory, let's say I suck at infering abstractions from real examples which most rather smart people seem to do just fine) and horrendous working memory (different from short term memory like hearing a phone number and typing it afterwards, working memory is a lot more complex). Bad working memory feels like a mental bottleneck when performing mentally challenging tasks. It makes me horrendously bad at real maths even though I excel at pattern copy pasting which is all you need for high school maths and below, but the second an innovative reasoning is required, impossible. Yeah guess how my high school teachers looked at me when I told them I was worried about pursuing a maths-heavy higher education because I struggled a lot in this discipline while I also had near perfect results ... like I was nuts lmfao.
I have good visuo-spatial capabilities and memory, good language skills although rather slow and a problem-solving driven motivation.
I cannot find anything serious on that topic of cognitive strengths & weaknesses profiling and it's really annoying. If anyone has an idea, I'd gladly take it.
If anyone has a life experience that resonates with mine, I'd also be extremely curious about your testimony. I'm lost among aliens that assume we're alike because we look the same.
While it is very simplistic and the science behind it is not something I have looked into, there is a website called 16 personalities. It revolves around the Myers-Briggs personality profiles, and while I wouldn't put complete faith in it, there is a rather lengthy multiple choice/rate how much this applies to you out of 5 type test that will put you into one of the 16 personality types. Once you have that, you go to the profile of that personality and it has a little write up on how people with that personality type would typically experience things like relationships, emotions, and careers. They can give examples of careers in those write up which would be a good starting point or point of data on your search.
I dont know my IQ but I am fairly sure it is quite ok with the excpetion of all things math. I struggled since I was a little kid allthough I learned a lot and had different teachers. It is a pity because I am quite interested in science but could not study anything relates because you need math. And I hate those tests with questions like "What is the next number" because my brain is always like: I dont know, I dont care, now can we do something of interest 😅
It was also interesting for me hearing you talk about autism as a disability. I am a late diagnosed woman and it seems I learned to mask so good, nobody believes me I'm autistic so everybody is either "you are not autistic, you look at me and speak with me and you are so normal " or just ignoring the fact.
And I loved you being in the tree, wonder where we will meet you next 😂 Greetings to the cats!