It would be interesting to look at the Eurotopia concept of from Freddy Heineken: - from wikipedia - _The plan gives a division of Europe in regions. Heineken went for advice on the division to Henk Wesseling, who was Professor of History at the University of Leiden. The designs from the plan were left to the Leiden historian Wim van den Doel.[1] Eurotopia takes ethnic sensitivities into account, to cause the least possible amount of friction.[2] The basic idea is a Europe that is completely composed of states with roughly 5 to 10 million citizens.[3] According to Heineken, the absence of a powerful state would lead to a chance of more stability, equality and peace. While under the motto of small is beautiful, administration in the states could be more efficient._
I live in swizerland and I always said that the Swiss model would fit the EU perfectly. It would satisfy the people who want more centralisation by uniting the different members into one country with common defence and foreign policy, but would satisfy the EU skeptics by granting every member state as much autonomy as possible in every sector that works for local governance. Besides that, it's funny how much the situations and history of swizzerland and the EU are actually similar
yes, and if we, Europeans, fail to unite, we will share the same fate as the greek city states, 2000 years ago, getting conquered by a bigger, stronger neighbour that played on their bickerings and lack of unity.
what if the EU skeptics like myself have zero trust towards the center and don't want my future ruined by people opposite of my views handling foreign policy?
No, I don't want to be ruled by westerners who can't even tell what gender they are while trying to force me to eat grass, bugs and drive bicycle because only rich people can afford electric cars
I agree, but struggle to see it ever happening. The way the EU is set up now simply doesn't handle large-scale reform well, if at all. Getting all member states to agree on something in principle is difficult, but possible. Getting them to agree on the details is almost impossible. Mostly because the EU means different things to different countries, but also because any renegotiation of the EU treaties will inevitably descend into attempts to gain advantages in the new system/ complaints about perceived advantages that other countries have. In the end, you just end up with a bunch of concessions and exceptions and the whole system is compromised.
I am Swiss. Our system has quite some advantages but has also challenges. The video is a great introduction, but ofc its much more complicated. To name some challenges: - The federal council needs to find a solution which the majority agrees on. This can lead to slow output. Also ministers which personally do not support a law need to implement it and argue for it during public votes. - The swapping presidency makes it harder in foreign relation to have good personal connections and having a consistent agenda. - In Swiss politics compromises are very important. And the parties need to be willing to compromise on some of their policies.
Compromise politics are a good thing though, especially in environments when there’s so many different interests like the EU. Maybe it’s survivorship bias but the whole reason my country, the Netherlands isn’t under water is because we did compromise politics to maintain flood defences properly.
Also: - it takes a long time for laws to pass and changes to get implicated. The benefit is that laws are in general broadly supported and thought through. But it makes it hard for swift actions
One thing, considering the current developments in the US, would be the requirement to implement extremely strong safeguards which prevent the whole federation to turn authoritarian or worse.
@@oxydator Yes, it's called education. I'm Swiss and I really cherish our direct democracy and I wish we could apply it to the rest of the world. But I know it wouldn't work in countries like the US, where people vote against their own interests because they're subject to so much disinformation and manipulation.
I really hope this is the future. This seems like one of the only possible solutions that satisfies both people who want a more federalized EU as well as the people who want to maintain local authority.
@@KiKfilms The EU is the only way to safeguard some sovereignty. Without the EU, European nations will slowly, but surely turn into mere puppets of major powers like the US, China or Russia.
We have no choice but standing closer together, if we want to be able to define our future and keep up with the US and China. Sadly nationalists rose in almost all of our countries because of stupid immigration and asylum laws and now hinder further European integration. We already lost the UK because of the refugee crisis 2014/15. Soon we might lose France.
The USA worked similar to this until 1920's regarding the division of powers. Unfortunately they left out the other parts, & the federal department began to swallow up the power of the states directly.
@@kenzyisaac1913 I'm from the USA, so a Swiss could answer this better. But from what it seems to me. 1. The public can call a referendum to veto any law. It scares off politicians from passing laws against public opinion in the first place. The USA has no such thing. 2. They can pass a constitutional amendment just with a referendum. The USA needs the states or congress to agree. This helps the public reign in power hungry politicians very quickly. 3. Very weak president. They have a cabinet that acts as president, with one person rotating the "title" very often. The usa had their shift when wilson won "by mistake" bec. the other party split their vote for president. Bec. the electoral college has winner take all and no runoffs.
The EU is the most successful and democratic union of SOVEREIGN nations in the history of humankind. It is an insanely successful model. Yes, it makes sense to turn the EU into a federation, but Switzerland can never be a model for the EU. The EU is orders of magnitude more diverse and also much, much bigger than Switzerland. The EU will have to build something such as the world has never seen, not copy one of the smallest and most specific nations on the planet. It just cannot work. The EU federation will be much more about applying emerging technologies to governance than copying a tiny Alpine mini-state.
“One of the most specific nations on the planet?” First, every example is specific. That’s kind of the nature of the beast. That one uses a federation model doesn’t mean a one-for-one copy. Second, as someone who lived in Switzerland for years, the Swiss would be very amused to hear about this cultural similarity of theirs. The German, French, and Italian Swiss are *proudly* distinct, as are the rural and urban populations.
This is exactly what I have been advocating for quite some time. Whenever the topic of federation in Europe came up there was a tendency to negatively liken it to the USA. My response was "no - look to the Switzerland model instead". A homegrown European federation type which has stood the test of time. Interestingly your video also includes maps which have the bigger current countries divided into their individual regions. This could also solve the issues of the different separatist movements in Europe if each region had it's own representation on EU level. That is however surely a "hot potato" which must be handled with some caution. I would back the general idea however. Thanks for the video.
Seems achievable... as a whole new treaty and abandoning the EU altogether. But that also means leaving behind all the members who would vote to not join tjis new treaty. Should be ok if you're fine with deviding EU into United States of Europe and Confederate States of Europe.
@@teyrncousland7152 In the US, to amend the constitution it requires 3/5 (60%) of state legislatures to support an amendment in addition to a supermajority of Congress.
@@lordkfc1297 I think the question is "What happens when national democracy contradicts EU democracy?" because EU requires a well functioning national democracy in order to join. Abolishing it on entrance makes it not make sense to have it in the first place.
@ Then they can use the referendums to change the already voted matter, if really enough people are against a measure they can call a ref. Keep in mind that not every matter would be in the hands of the federal government, each nation still has autonomy over several matters. In a democracy not everyone is happy with the results.
Zurich actually has higher taxes (and a higher cost of living - most expensive city to live in the world) than neighboring cantons. Those 40K won't make up the difference, believe me.
The biggest advantage in my opinion as a Swiss is that you can get to decisions without needing consent of every member / canton. As smaller cantons have a strong voice in the council of states and by the power of the majority of states (Ständemehr) in votes, it is almost impossible for the big states to overpower the small ones. Democratic majority decisions are thus generally well accepted even though not everybody is happy with the outcome. If the EU was more democratic, I believe it would be better accepted and maybe even Switzerland would join.
Something that could have been mentioned, is that the cantons also work together in some cases. So basically a coalition of willing is also possible to save cost or share some burden. (Healthcare investments, Educational material etc.)
this also happens a lot in the us, with inter-state agreements. they're most pervasive with watershed management, where states usually work together to manage water rather than rely on the federal epa to sort everything out (it legally has jurisdiction but it's usually way too slow to be helpful).
As an American, I have to say I truly wish this is Europe’s future. As my country continues to go down the shitter, the world needs a new democratic power.
Please tell me, what direction should America go in your eyes? I think the direction of world peace, improved economy with higher wages and lower costs. I believe this is a better direction than world war 3, extreme wokeness, greater inflation, etc. I will debate you, just know, that if you get your facts from mainstream news, you are a brainwashed sheep.
@@socomxx yeah no trump is old and very much not mentally competent enough to lead a country that big and influential shoulda just let kamala win honestly
As a Swiss, it's one of the best foreign video explaining the Swiss system that I have seen. But I would add 2 things: the fact that some things are decided at the federal level aren't making cantons able to do more, the environnement is a great example of that. And secondly, I still think that a EU based on Switzerland would be great, but you would still have to change some things or adapt them, you would for example need an extremly advanced informatical system to hold it and a lot of others changes. But a big problem today is that your dirigeant aren't wanting to let go power to a federal level and even less to the people.
You missed an important part - the Executive Council is not selected by the people but by the representatives of the people. More importantly, there is an unofficial law that these 7 would represent all political parties, ending the political game of coalition which results in more focus on corruption and power games (annulling previous government actions) and less focus on public service. All in all the executive council not only take decisions together but it is comprised of all the political range of parties (left, right. far right etc..).
As a Swiss I am a bit confused: the EU already functions rather similar to Switzerland, but it's member states have much more sovereignty e.g. their own foreign policy. So while it is called "Swiss-Style EU" the largest de-facto change would be more central power and less sovereignty on a national level. And I highly doubt that nations would agree to that, at least not the ones better off currently. If you read up on Swiss history (attention: overly simplified here) it needed Napoleon marching in and "defining" a republic and a civil war for the Swiss cantons to accept there position. Not to mention that what drove them together was de-facto a military alliance.
you have far more direct democracy , there is zero direct democracy in EU or any EU country , you also have a very small Government where as EU is one big huge bureaucracy
I agree with the sentiment, and I also think "Swiss-style EU" is excellent messaging and a great way to get people on board with deeper integration or even the idea of federalizing, but the main problem is most of the differences you mention are basically how the EU already functions. The Council of the EU is already effectively the upper legislative chamber with one state one vote. While having a rotating Commission presidency isn't a terrible idea, we already have a rotating Council presidency and it doesn't have a big impact. Reducing the number of commissioners has been discussed for years, but nobody can figure out a way to do it that is fair to the member states, like who will forego a commissioner and for how long. Really, the main Swiss-esque stuff that matters would be having more direct democracy (though the EU already has citizens initiatives). Issues like giving parliament more power and removing the veto on areas of foreign affairs, defense, and taxation are simply "country things" and not "Swiss-styled things". Really, the real point I'm making is the EU already is very similar to Switzerland and it would be better if people recognized this more.
And, *FORTUNATELY*, then get vetoed by Hungary, Poland, Intaly and other countries which conserve their conservatism. Edit: I meant my comment to be against EU integration so I added the 'fortunately' word.
@@Hardcore_Remixer If not for them we'd be flooded with half or Africa. Oh no, wait, we actually are.... Want to see Europe that looks like Europe and not suburb of Nairobi, Algier or some other Asmara? Go to Warsaw, Budapest (Rome is not in this group anymore, unfortunatelly). Want to come back home safely alone at night beeing a woman? Warsaw may be the best choice instead of Paris, Brussels, Malmo, or Berlin....
@@ireneuszfus8398 Sorry, I meant that the motion would fortunately be vetoed. We're on the same boat. It's just that I didn't write my comment properly at first.
→ Some of the swiss cantons are "half-cantons" (generally because they resulted from a canton being split in two). These have only one vote each in the council of states. I guess this could be a model for giving some of the really small countries only one vote in the second chamber of the EU. → If the representatives of the countries are elected directly by the people in that country, they might possibly not represent the interests of "the country", but just whoever voted for them. Not sure whether this makes a big difference to today, where the council represents the country governments. → The Popular Initiative for constitutional amendmends means that (in Switzerland) many things which could just be normal laws are now written into the constitution. I don't think we want this, it confuses things.
A Swiss-Style EU would be an utopian democratic dream, that everyone can say something. I would really love that and propably this would also think people, swiss can be part of the eu. But the current eu, thats the main reason, why swiss doesn't want to join eu, loosing direct democracy and souverigny
Just a point about this "European Federal Council": it would keep one member from each country with a six-month-term presidency, like the European Council presidency.
I'm pretty certain that people want the opportunity to actually vote on the commission president themselves. Euro-sceptics see the commission as unelected, as it's a complex, behind closed doors type of process, rather than something handled directly by the population. For a European identity to form and to strengthen over time, direct involvement is absolutely necessary, and I'd argue that even the Swiss model doesn't quite do enough to achieve that.
Each country would vote for a candidate of their own since others would be unknown to them, this way you would only need to win in the most populous states to win the election
No - I detest the notion of electing a person. I demand to actually be electing AGENDA in terms of a "manifesto" of a political party. I demand fulland complete institutionalization in which "representative" personality is irelevant. I vote only for a programme... never for a person enacting it, person enacting it must be replacable. Never under any circumstance vote for a "name".
I get what you mean but - the main issue with that system is that the idea behind Swizterland's system is to have a weak executive subordinated to the parliamen (maybe to weak therefore), the more balanced idea of german federalism is to have an executive checked and responsible in front of the parliament - thus are parlementary system which i found are the most democratic where the main power remains in the hand of the Parliament However, directly electing the head of the executive automatically mean giving major legitimacy - and therefore power - in the hand of one man - and that's how we ALWAYS end up with powerful executive head of states like in France, Turkey, USA etc. who can defacto dictate policies I think however that we can still have that same impression of electing somone - without electing that someone - if we keep a parliamentary system where, during legislative elections, the head president of running parties would campaign for Primeministership (even tho they wouldn't be directly elected, but really like will if their party win the elections, as the new legislature would nominate that person as PM) just like in Germany's system
I'm Swiss, and the system is not perfect. People in big urban cantons feel overruled by small rural canton. So these could be maybe lessened, by given weight to each country based on a logarithmic value. So country with less than 1 million would get weight 1, 1-10 weight 2, and 10M+ would get three. Every couple of decades there is an intiatives to change the goverment election system, but it's always feared that letting it elect bt the people would lead to the peoples with most money winning. So maybe there should be a seperate "President of Europe" acting as a head of state for the ceremonial part of the job, which would be elected by the people, while federal council would be elected by the parlament.
We'll work on that in th future , the common military thing is too useful .Becouse we get to avoid the Yugoslavia problem, while not upseting the "local culture" problem.
@@Videoman2000 good with that one too. Military conscription doesn't have to be abuse , it can be like a social program for the above reasons. And to get our gamer-infested youth into some kind of physical shape . So it can be a military. a social program and a well-being program in one. And of course it will make our enemies shit themselves, best part out of all of this .
You mentionned the Swiss Communes without expanding, but they are a core component of the system, with very significant powers. A notable difference with many countries is that income tax is split between Commune, Canton and Confederacy, with the Commune having the lion's share and the Confederacy a very small one. But the latter will also collect customs, fuel taxes and VAT. IIRC, the EU is financed via the very high VAT (a regressive form of taxation), with mandatory rates around 20%, while the Swiss rate is lower than 10% (a major obstacle to the euro-enthusiasm of some circles). But it also reflects the anomaly that Switzerland is in Europe, being significantly more economicaly and politically liberal than its neighbors, with a "small government" proclivity that is anathema to the EU behemoth.
You lost me at federally administered climate change. It's a catch-all topic and can be used to mandate literally anything from any aspect of economy to energy, industry, trade, employment, even migration. Climate can't ever be surrendered to Brussels completely. And there's no point to it either. Europe only represents around 7% of global emissions, and it's already going down. All the rest, I'm on board.
I might have my doubts, but nothing is impossible, as the Swiss model relies on favorable tax policies and free trade, which contrasts with the approach taken by the EU.
@@lukas54cz71 i'm sorry that last sentence is just too intrtiguing to me, i understand abandoning the idiotic notion of atheism, i did it in early teens, how and why are you converting into a catholic? and especially as a czech, judging by your nickname
Unfortunately, this is literally impossible given how the EU is going these days. If anything, I'm afraid we're going to revert back to being even more divided.
I don't think so. Hard decisions are made in times of crisis, and the problem with nationalism is that it's contradictory. If the US really goes into full isolationist mode then Europe will have to make hard decisions in order to survive.
I've always thought that the EU resembled Switzerland in many ways and that copying Switzerland would have been a good idea given how efficient it is while keeping the sovereignty of "states"
Direct democracy ballot measures are a good idea in theory but often a terrible idea in practice. Look up California's Proposition 13, passed in 1978, which permanently devastated educational spending and still distorts housing prices to this day. Also, having lived in California and other US states that do direct democracy ballot measures, they're very frequently worded in misleading ways to intentionally fool people into voting against their own interests. And giant corporate lobbyists game the system of ballot measures just as much as they do elected representatives. I don't know if they average out to being more destructive than only having indirect democracy, or slightly better, but they're definitely not as good as you think they are.
I really believe our Swiss-style federation could be a fitting model for the EU. Of course, it might need some fine-tuning to the needs of such a large entity. One crucial aspect of the swiss federal council, is the commen understanding by all parties that the council should be diverse (members from all major parties, gender and language region). While this is not set in law, it helps ensuring a stable government that isn't flip-flipping between a majority coalition and the opposition every couple of years. Instead, all parties govern in the executive and instead form coalitions on specific topics on the parlament (legistlative) level.
If applied to the EU it could be an improvement - at least in the short term. Whatever reduces the power of head-of-state/Federal governments is good. As a citizen of the EU, if you offered it to me this moment, I would say yes. It could serve as a stepping stone.
This sounds like a great middle ground, something that could align with all regions' different opinions and interests, preventing a whole host of arguments about levels of sovereignity. I'm all for it.
Très intéressant, ce vidéo! Je suis Montréalais, et j'avais 10 ans lors du référendum sur l'indépendance du Québec en 1995. Je me souviens bien les tensions, et j'en perçois encore les traces sociales aujourd'hui. Bien que je ne sois pas certain que ce système basé sur la Suisse puisse être appliqué au Canada, la structure et les dynamiques internes sont définitivement intéressantes!
French naturalized living in Switzerland. I thought the Swiss system would apply well to France and the EU. Now after your video I’m even more convinced it’d be a great fit for the EU
Below the video. Whether the EU should adopt the same system as the USA? I've already noted. That the EU should develop a system designed for its own needs. The best parts of the constitutions of Switzerland, the USA and Germany should then be adopted. As far as Switzerland is concerned, I am skeptical about popular referendums except on particularly important issues. Are they feasible with a population as large as the EU has? But Switzerland's two-chamber system seems to me to make perfect sense for the EU. Because it takes into account the interests of voters and nation states. And the seven-member government council also seems to make sense. In the end you will have to try it out. Whichever makes the most sense. Oh yes, why is Ukraine on this EU map? I would like to see such a future for both Ukraine and Europe as a whole. But it hasn't happened yet. Oh I have to correct myself now that I see the whole map. It is not intended to reflect the current situation. But the ideal situation of an entire European EU based on the Swiss model
@jascrandom9855 Secure? Switzerland has a population of I think 4.9 million. While the EU has no potential candidates for membership. Has 448 million inhabitants. That would be a lot more bureaucratic effort. Which would also be vulnerable to foreign influence. Furthermore, I don't mean that referendums are generally not possible. But probably only for a certain number of people.
@@marschallhistory3286 If they can organize EU Parliamentary elections, they can do EU-wide Referendums. If India can organize elections for 1.4 billion people, so can the EU.
Since Im soberanist, Im against any type of soberanity loss in any country in the EU, but if EU converts to a country, its a lot better this system, because the soberanity isnt totally lost at all.
Yeah I agree. It would help get rid of some of the dominance London has over the rest of the country. But I’m glad we left the EU overall beacuse I don’t think a European federation would be a good idea for the uk to be a part of. I just whish the conservatives were able to make a deal where we stayed in the economic zone and had some sort of travel/work/student deal
Croatia here, fully support the idea! Don't see how any Europeans would be against mimicing the Swiss. So who is going to get this in the process and when? x)
in order to create federation all EU member republics will need to change constitution. usually changes require absolute parliament majority. and that is a problem in these times of populism and anti globalism. i don't think that it is possible to convince a majority of citizens to get rid of their nation-state and give control to Brussels. just my opinion. there is no enthusiasm for ever closer union.
It's just won't happen. Like I'm from Poland, we have some completely different approach towards some basic manners that giving away border control to Brussels will have no support here. I can understand why countries in the middle of EU might not care but for the frontiers it looks completely different. I see people here pushing towards united military - basically a necessity long term... But I don't see military commanded from Brussels to properly protect borders as it should and it is quite shaky to give away control over such substantial matters.
@@andrzejnadgirl2029 i am from Latvija. we just got our independence back 30 years ago. we are not jet bored by it like west Europe are. and have little intentions to give our sovereignty away once again. and for what? for who's benefit? in what name? i love my country and nation. i do not want them to disappear.
@@0gkmedia0 I doubt it... the very conservative UDC battle against that any way they can, often using populist means. They do that because they (their interests) stand to benefit from an isolated Switzerland and they would lose that in a federal Europe. And they do their "job" very well against any idea of close relation with the EU (even when something pass the people referendum as a packet (bilaterales), they try to dismantle years latter, bit by bit... they're okay to keep the economic benefits, but also to sacrifice everything else it isn't about the loss of democracy, but about the loss of control... the UDC can more or less control things in the "small" Switzerland but would weight close to nothing in the big EU. Sure, they would join the conservative coalition in the EU, but they (each members of the coalition) would also defend their own interests in turn, and they often oppose...
Eh... not sure if you know, the EU has 27 presidents. All the heads of government of the EU member states form the Council of the EU, which is the same as the Government of the EU.
The swiss system works also because switzerland has very low corruption, the swiss population is highly educated and often the country is put before individual needs (see people voting to increase their taxes, reject getting more paid holidays etc.), all things that are not a given in the other european countries. See how the french protested after their very low retirement age was increased (even if it's still low), or how the italian can't build large infrastructure due to corruption.
@@cantthinkofabettername7016 good one. They voted against more holidays because the industry ran a massive campaign against it. The political system works, because the SVP can not rule alone and no one wants to rule with them, otherwise populists would have taken over some time ago. Also no idea where you get the highly educated part from. Reading and writing is the baseline, not the top, and the amount of conspiracy theory peeps or alternative medicine, antivax people is pretty decent. There may not be as much corruption, but the nepotism is strong in many areas.
The system was in place 200y ago, when common education wasn't a thing. It's quite simple, if people don't want certain policies, the legislature and executive need to respect that, even if your wokie moral compass is 100% sure it's better to do so... it's called ruling with democratic legitimacy. Forcing "morally superior" change without democratic legitimation is a dictatorship. If French people don't wanna work longer, they don't want to, they'll find ways to have that working for them, by raising taxes or just not raising wages over time, etc. Infantilizing adults or even suggesting someone's vote does matter more/less because of their education is highly undemocratic.
I did think about this model long before this video came out and I am glad that now it gets more attention. I inspired myself from the Parlament model that gives representation based on population percentage with a small multiplier for smaller nations and a us Senat like chamber with two representatives elected by the national Parlaments and abolishing the commission for a cabinet which is different in the swiss model.
An interesting video but you are mistaken on one key point. The council members are nominated by each member’s government thus who in turn is elected by the people thus making the council being indirectly elected but still a democratic representation of the countries political orientation.
The EU's problem is the "liberum veto" of this or that member state. Once, the "liberum veto" led to the downfall of an entire country: the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the 18th century. I hope that the EU will quickly get rid of this archaism and switch to majority voting in its entirety.
The issue was that Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was too modern for its time. It literally speedran American style deadlocked parliament, absurd elements (never-ending speeches and other caveats in US and making decisions by acclamation in PLC, something also introduced by bringing up technicalities), collapse of tolerance. It was a peak dysfunctional democracy with faliling political culture
The EU’s problem is its lack of solidarity. When German and French banks were being bankrupted, they forced countries like Greece to pick up the weight. This union is nothing more than a Franco-German axis and so long that is true the veto will always be necessary to ensure the freedom of the smaller member states.
7 presidents/premiers looks optimal to never give full power for one, but also give possibility to have majority. Also in case of 3 or 5 there would be also strong sides, but with 7 it would be possible to cut importance of the edges. Federal and Canton level also looks very good. but (6:05) equal representation would be unfair. Why voice of 300k Estonians should have same representation as 80kk Germans? In my opinion for each 5kk people (based on national subdivisions) should be 1 representative but for each country at least one. So it should stay regional representation as in Switzerland but just not based on countries. I do not think referendum should be always for whole EU. Some local referendum should be able to initiate overriding of EU decisions. To reduce some problems with lack of alignment with standardized law it should not include manufactural requirements, but in case of ideological politics law should be possible to create from the bottom up. In order to veto local changes, it would be useful to hold a supra-regional referendum during the next elections in which it would be good to vote on whether to veto, allow to stay local or harmonize common law in accordance with local changes.
Referendums are indeed great in Switzerland. However, I would be concerned about giving people that much of power outside Switzerland. We are a well-balanced country and are not polarised as some other countries. So I wonder what would happen if we would give this type of competency in some countries that have quiet a lot far-right politicians in their parlament
I would argue that implementing the Swiss model would De-radicalize and De-polarize populations. A lot of that is based on the feeling of being powerless and disconnected from the powers-that-be.
I think so, although with some adaptations. I would say that it would be very important to give some competencies to the EU (like the ones the swiss federal government has) and make it very clear that everything else is on the hands of the member states. For examples, social and civil rights like LGBTQ policies, abortion, etc... should have nothing to do with the federal EU government
Switzerland is anyhow an example of well defined and managed Democracy. The steady deadlock of political work in our Germany / France / UK etc. Democracies are not a good thing. Switzerland works better. But entire Switzerland is like a highly privileged privat school, where everything works much better than in a social confict space school. And the economically decaying EU states are nowadays all social conflict rubish.
Seems like a smart idea. Even if I passionately hate the EU. Individual countries must have more to say about their specific needs and conditions. Something that might work for continental Europe often doesn’t work for Scandinavia for example. This might be a way forward if the Union wants to have a future.
Yes, EU is either going to reform or rot. There's no in-between. The current arrangement of EU is ridiculously inefficient (e.g. 1 member state being able to block resolutions) and leaves almost everyone unhappy, but without some sort of union we are all doomed to be dominated by bigger global players. A federated union following the Swiss model would be ideal. One military, one foreign policy, one climate policy and one space program. The rest should be managed on state level.
You made one crucial mistake. The way you describes the presidency in the EU is not the same as in CH. The federal council acts as one and none of its members represents it's own opinion or that of their party (except for rösti because apparently he's unfit for the position.), instead only ever representing the stance that they have agreed upon as one beforehand. That's the core principle that makes it work in the first place. If one member were to kick off something and hand it to the next as you described fir the EU then no progress would be made on anything where there's a slight disagreement. They'd act within their department instead in a way that represents the national policies (except if your name is albert rösti who tries to influence the popular vote)
Great approach. I definitely think that small regions are the future. An Austrian mountain farmer has much more in common with Italian, Slovenian, Swiss mountain farmers than with the bureaucracy located in Vienna. Greetings from Leopold Kohr, a strong promoter of this idea decades ago.
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It would be interesting to look at the Eurotopia concept of from Freddy Heineken:
- from wikipedia -
_The plan gives a division of Europe in regions. Heineken went for advice on the division to Henk Wesseling, who was Professor of History at the University of Leiden. The designs from the plan were left to the Leiden historian Wim van den Doel.[1] Eurotopia takes ethnic sensitivities into account, to cause the least possible amount of friction.[2] The basic idea is a Europe that is completely composed of states with roughly 5 to 10 million citizens.[3] According to Heineken, the absence of a powerful state would lead to a chance of more stability, equality and peace. While under the motto of small is beautiful, administration in the states could be more efficient._
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Actually Switzerland has 7 federal councillors and one president but great video
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More likely for the EU to collapse than anything else
I live in swizerland and I always said that the Swiss model would fit the EU perfectly. It would satisfy the people who want more centralisation by uniting the different members into one country with common defence and foreign policy, but would satisfy the EU skeptics by granting every member state as much autonomy as possible in every sector that works for local governance.
Besides that, it's funny how much the situations and history of swizzerland and the EU are actually similar
yes, and if we, Europeans, fail to unite, we will share the same fate as the greek city states, 2000 years ago, getting conquered by a bigger, stronger neighbour that played on their bickerings and lack of unity.
what if the EU skeptics like myself have zero trust towards the center and don't want my future ruined by people opposite of my views handling foreign policy?
@@DakuHonoo
That's called...
*Checks notes
...Living in a democracy
No, I don't want to be ruled by westerners who can't even tell what gender they are while trying to force me to eat grass, bugs and drive bicycle because only rich people can afford electric cars
I agree, but struggle to see it ever happening. The way the EU is set up now simply doesn't handle large-scale reform well, if at all.
Getting all member states to agree on something in principle is difficult, but possible. Getting them to agree on the details is almost impossible. Mostly because the EU means different things to different countries, but also because any renegotiation of the EU treaties will inevitably descend into attempts to gain advantages in the new system/ complaints about perceived advantages that other countries have.
In the end, you just end up with a bunch of concessions and exceptions and the whole system is compromised.
I am Swiss.
Our system has quite some advantages but has also challenges.
The video is a great introduction, but ofc its much more complicated.
To name some challenges:
- The federal council needs to find a solution which the majority agrees on. This can lead to slow output. Also ministers which personally do not support a law need to implement it and argue for it during public votes.
- The swapping presidency makes it harder in foreign relation to have good personal connections and having a consistent agenda.
- In Swiss politics compromises are very important. And the parties need to be willing to compromise on some of their policies.
Compromise politics are a good thing though, especially in environments when there’s so many different interests like the EU.
Maybe it’s survivorship bias but the whole reason my country, the Netherlands isn’t under water is because we did compromise politics to maintain flood defences properly.
And yet this culture of compromise is slightly disappearing, in national and even in cantonal level
-Probelm 4: The EU is so much more diverse. All those arguments from above would be ten times amplified if they'd be adopted by the EU.
Also:
- it takes a long time for laws to pass and changes to get implicated. The benefit is that laws are in general broadly supported and thought through. But it makes it hard for swift actions
Imagine trying this in the Balkans 🤣🤣
I considered this Swiss-style EU model during my university years, and I believe it would be an excellent approach.
everything will be better than what currently is lol
One thing, considering the current developments in the US, would be the requirement to implement extremely strong safeguards which prevent the whole federation to turn authoritarian or worse.
More likely for the EU to collapse than anything else. Grexit, Frexit maybe even Germexit on the horizon
@@oxydator Yes, it's called education. I'm Swiss and I really cherish our direct democracy and I wish we could apply it to the rest of the world. But I know it wouldn't work in countries like the US, where people vote against their own interests because they're subject to so much disinformation and manipulation.
I really hope this is the future. This seems like one of the only possible solutions that satisfies both people who want a more federalized EU as well as the people who want to maintain local authority.
People who want to maintain "local authority" are the ones who very well that EU is the biggest threat to it.
Same here!
@@KiKfilms The EU is the only way to safeguard some sovereignty. Without the EU, European nations will slowly, but surely turn into mere puppets of major powers like the US, China or Russia.
I really love this idea for EU if we decide that our future is together as a federation.
We have no choice but standing closer together, if we want to be able to define our future and keep up with the US and China. Sadly nationalists rose in almost all of our countries because of stupid immigration and asylum laws and now hinder further European integration. We already lost the UK because of the refugee crisis 2014/15. Soon we might lose France.
Meh. As someone from a small country it would be shit and just mean that our policies would be decided by those in large countries
German living in Switzerland here. Please make this happen, it actually works.
The USA worked similar to this until 1920's regarding the division of powers.
Unfortunately they left out the other parts, & the federal department began to swallow up the power of the states directly.
@@DaveSmith-pm2yq And they have one man who holds too much power (president)
@@DaveSmith-pm2yq what makes the switz style resilient to such swallowing?
@@kenzyisaac1913 I'm from the USA, so a Swiss could answer this better.
But from what it seems to me.
1. The public can call a referendum to veto any law. It scares off politicians from passing laws against public opinion in the first place. The USA has no such thing.
2. They can pass a constitutional amendment just with a referendum. The USA needs the states or congress to agree.
This helps the public reign in power hungry politicians very quickly.
3. Very weak president. They have a cabinet that acts as president, with one person rotating the "title" very often. The usa had their shift when wilson won "by mistake" bec. the other party split their vote for president. Bec. the electoral college has winner take all and no runoffs.
@@DaveSmith-pm2yq thank you very much. I think you did well.
This is a better idea then how the EU currently runs.
Yeah, the EU has been left in the "work in progress" mode. It is the Star Citizen of supranational organizations.
The EU is the most successful and democratic union of SOVEREIGN nations in the history of humankind. It is an insanely successful model. Yes, it makes sense to turn the EU into a federation, but Switzerland can never be a model for the EU. The EU is orders of magnitude more diverse and also much, much bigger than Switzerland. The EU will have to build something such as the world has never seen, not copy one of the smallest and most specific nations on the planet. It just cannot work.
The EU federation will be much more about applying emerging technologies to governance than copying a tiny Alpine mini-state.
@@Valokaarilol oh no, that’s a low blow 🤣🤣🤣
@@XD152awesomeness 🤣🤣🤣🤣 but both still can come awesome 😉
“One of the most specific nations on the planet?” First, every example is specific. That’s kind of the nature of the beast. That one uses a federation model doesn’t mean a one-for-one copy.
Second, as someone who lived in Switzerland for years, the Swiss would be very amused to hear about this cultural similarity of theirs. The German, French, and Italian Swiss are *proudly* distinct, as are the rural and urban populations.
This video is incredible! You’re an absolute legend!
thank you :)
If the EU is organized like this, I would join immediately.
best wishes from Switzerland :-)
From a swiss guy, this looks cool. You should do this, as long as we're not part of it ofc 😉
This is exactly what I have been advocating for quite some time. Whenever the topic of federation in Europe came up there was a tendency to negatively liken it to the USA. My response was "no - look to the Switzerland model instead". A homegrown European federation type which has stood the test of time. Interestingly your video also includes maps which have the bigger current countries divided into their individual regions. This could also solve the issues of the different separatist movements in Europe if each region had it's own representation on EU level. That is however surely a "hot potato" which must be handled with some caution. I would back the general idea however. Thanks for the video.
This!
Separatists being allowed representation is pretty basic to democracy. I'd like to see that.
Greetings from a european citizen born and raised in Switzerland, I would love such model to be followed by EU! 🤩
I really hope that this is the future of Europe really
yea it's kind of a dream, and i'm saying this as a swiss
It's really a dream and it should be happened
Seems achievable... as a whole new treaty and abandoning the EU altogether. But that also means leaving behind all the members who would vote to not join tjis new treaty.
Should be ok if you're fine with deviding EU into United States of Europe and Confederate States of Europe.
This is an excellent model for what the EU could be. Let's not rest on our laurels, we can do so much better.
The Swiss model would be an improvement for the U.S. as well
😂. In the USA you can identify as a cat 😺 in some places. Meeeowww😵💫
@@Shaolin91z Careful there. The Haitians might hear you. You know what they do cats and dogs... Good think they elected Trump by a landslide.
First I’ve heard of that, and I live in the U.S.
That sounds great! Direct referendums across the EU would make it more democratic
What happens when each nation’s referendums contradict each other?
@@teyrncousland7152 They get voted and the people decide, or in other words: Democracy
@@teyrncousland7152 In the US, to amend the constitution it requires 3/5 (60%) of state legislatures to support an amendment in addition to a supermajority of Congress.
@@lordkfc1297 I think the question is "What happens when national democracy contradicts EU democracy?" because EU requires a well functioning national democracy in order to join. Abolishing it on entrance makes it not make sense to have it in the first place.
@ Then they can use the referendums to change the already voted matter, if really enough people are against a measure they can call a ref. Keep in mind that not every matter would be in the hands of the federal government, each nation still has autonomy over several matters.
In a democracy not everyone is happy with the results.
My dream has always been to move to Zürich. I’d make $40k more, be taxed less, live in a real democracy, and my family is from Zürich.
Zurich actually has higher taxes (and a higher cost of living - most expensive city to live in the world) than neighboring cantons. Those 40K won't make up the difference, believe me.
The biggest advantage in my opinion as a Swiss is that you can get to decisions without needing consent of every member / canton. As smaller cantons have a strong voice in the council of states and by the power of the majority of states (Ständemehr) in votes, it is almost impossible for the big states to overpower the small ones. Democratic majority decisions are thus generally well accepted even though not everybody is happy with the outcome. If the EU was more democratic, I believe it would be better accepted and maybe even Switzerland would join.
You were not lying in the other video's comment... I love today's video! 😄
I'm glad! :)
Something that could have been mentioned, is that the cantons also work together in some cases. So basically a coalition of willing is also possible to save cost or share some burden. (Healthcare investments, Educational material etc.)
this also happens a lot in the us, with inter-state agreements. they're most pervasive with watershed management, where states usually work together to manage water rather than rely on the federal epa to sort everything out (it legally has jurisdiction but it's usually way too slow to be helpful).
lovely video and idea
As an American, I have to say I truly wish this is Europe’s future. As my country continues to go down the shitter, the world needs a new democratic power.
Someone is upset with the American people and their decision...
I think it’s going to improve big time under trump. Country is not going down the shitter, please explain.
@ I would reason that we probably have very different opinions on the direction our country should go in.
Please tell me, what direction should America go in your eyes? I think the direction of world peace, improved economy with higher wages and lower costs. I believe this is a better direction than world war 3, extreme wokeness, greater inflation, etc. I will debate you, just know, that if you get your facts from mainstream news, you are a brainwashed sheep.
@@socomxx yeah no trump is old and very much not mentally competent enough to lead a country that big and influential
shoulda just let kamala win honestly
Many times I come back to see this beautiful video. It’s so great! 😆🔥
I think the swiss model is what the EU needs, and I strongly believe its the future of the EU
very important subject, good video!
As a Swiss, it's one of the best foreign video explaining the Swiss system that I have seen.
But I would add 2 things: the fact that some things are decided at the federal level aren't making cantons able to do more, the environnement is a great example of that.
And secondly, I still think that a EU based on Switzerland would be great, but you would still have to change some things or adapt them, you would for example need an extremly advanced informatical system to hold it and a lot of others changes.
But a big problem today is that your dirigeant aren't wanting to let go power to a federal level and even less to the people.
Glad you enjoyed it. And thanks for the comment
You missed an important part - the Executive Council is not selected by the people but by the representatives of the people. More importantly, there is an unofficial law that these 7 would represent all political parties, ending the political game of coalition which results in more focus on corruption and power games (annulling previous government actions) and less focus on public service. All in all the executive council not only take decisions together but it is comprised of all the political range of parties (left, right. far right etc..).
As a Swiss I am a bit confused: the EU already functions rather similar to Switzerland, but it's member states have much more sovereignty e.g. their own foreign policy. So while it is called "Swiss-Style EU" the largest de-facto change would be more central power and less sovereignty on a national level. And I highly doubt that nations would agree to that, at least not the ones better off currently.
If you read up on Swiss history (attention: overly simplified here) it needed Napoleon marching in and "defining" a republic and a civil war for the Swiss cantons to accept there position. Not to mention that what drove them together was de-facto a military alliance.
you have far more direct democracy , there is zero direct democracy in EU or any EU country , you also have a very small Government where as EU is one big huge bureaucracy
They have member states but thats pretty much the only similiarity.
The structure is fundamentaly different.
I agree with the sentiment, and I also think "Swiss-style EU" is excellent messaging and a great way to get people on board with deeper integration or even the idea of federalizing, but the main problem is most of the differences you mention are basically how the EU already functions. The Council of the EU is already effectively the upper legislative chamber with one state one vote. While having a rotating Commission presidency isn't a terrible idea, we already have a rotating Council presidency and it doesn't have a big impact. Reducing the number of commissioners has been discussed for years, but nobody can figure out a way to do it that is fair to the member states, like who will forego a commissioner and for how long. Really, the main Swiss-esque stuff that matters would be having more direct democracy (though the EU already has citizens initiatives). Issues like giving parliament more power and removing the veto on areas of foreign affairs, defense, and taxation are simply "country things" and not "Swiss-styled things". Really, the real point I'm making is the EU already is very similar to Switzerland and it would be better if people recognized this more.
so, how do we propose this? we can't wait for them, we need a petition to spread across the EU!
Hell yeah!
And, *FORTUNATELY*, then get vetoed by Hungary, Poland, Intaly and other countries which conserve their conservatism.
Edit: I meant my comment to be against EU integration so I added the 'fortunately' word.
@@Hardcore_Remixer If not for them we'd be flooded with half or Africa. Oh no, wait, we actually are.... Want to see Europe that looks like Europe and not suburb of Nairobi, Algier or some other Asmara? Go to Warsaw, Budapest (Rome is not in this group anymore, unfortunatelly). Want to come back home safely alone at night beeing a woman? Warsaw may be the best choice instead of Paris, Brussels, Malmo, or Berlin....
@@Hardcore_Remixer b-but I'm italian and I wanna see the change
@@ireneuszfus8398 Sorry, I meant that the motion would fortunately be vetoed. We're on the same boat. It's just that I didn't write my comment properly at first.
As someone living in Switzerland, love this video. Especially the rotating roles on the commission.
Awesome, thank you!
Passing a simple law would take like a dozen years
doesn't it already?
I like the model! I hope it would convince both Swiss peoples and current EU peoples to join their paths.
Oh, i waited for this! 🤓
→ Some of the swiss cantons are "half-cantons" (generally because they resulted from a canton being split in two). These have only one vote each in the council of states. I guess this could be a model for giving some of the really small countries only one vote in the second chamber of the EU.
→ If the representatives of the countries are elected directly by the people in that country, they might possibly not represent the interests of "the country", but just whoever voted for them. Not sure whether this makes a big difference to today, where the council represents the country governments.
→ The Popular Initiative for constitutional amendmends means that (in Switzerland) many things which could just be normal laws are now written into the constitution. I don't think we want this, it confuses things.
A Swiss-Style EU would be an utopian democratic dream, that everyone can say something. I would really love that and propably this would also think people, swiss can be part of the eu. But the current eu, thats the main reason, why swiss doesn't want to join eu, loosing direct democracy and souverigny
Just a point about this "European Federal Council": it would keep one member from each country with a six-month-term presidency, like the European Council presidency.
I'm French and i prefer the swiss model. This would fit the EU perfectly.
Love it, hope at some point it will happen!
Federal councils in general seem so much better than a single President/Prime Minister.
absolutely awesome video! very insightful & thought provoking!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
A federalized EU would do wonders for us. Stronger together ❤🇪🇺
I don't think you know what the term means bud
Don't be ridiculous. The Dark ages were exactly the opposite---the fragmentation following the dissolution of the only European state of the time.
@@noterrormanagement Don't waste your time on this idiot
**After** we find common ground on the immigration laws.
@@Hardcore_Remixerone presumes that immigration laws could be debated in the legislature.
This one was my idea by long ! I hope that they will make this soon !! I hope that are not just words but facts!
I'm pretty certain that people want the opportunity to actually vote on the commission president themselves. Euro-sceptics see the commission as unelected, as it's a complex, behind closed doors type of process, rather than something handled directly by the population.
For a European identity to form and to strengthen over time, direct involvement is absolutely necessary, and I'd argue that even the Swiss model doesn't quite do enough to achieve that.
Each country would vote for a candidate of their own since others would be unknown to them, this way you would only need to win in the most populous states to win the election
@@andysierra1618Let's do an EU electoral system :)))
Or at least let us see who votes who so that we know exactly where out vote went without having to blindly trust the politicians.
No - I detest the notion of electing a person. I demand to actually be electing AGENDA in terms of a "manifesto" of a political party. I demand fulland complete institutionalization in which "representative" personality is irelevant.
I vote only for a programme... never for a person enacting it, person enacting it must be replacable. Never under any circumstance vote for a "name".
I get what you mean but - the main issue with that system is that the idea behind Swizterland's system is to have a weak executive subordinated to the parliamen (maybe to weak therefore), the more balanced idea of german federalism is to have an executive checked and responsible in front of the parliament - thus are parlementary system which i found are the most democratic where the main power remains in the hand of the Parliament
However, directly electing the head of the executive automatically mean giving major legitimacy - and therefore power - in the hand of one man - and that's how we ALWAYS end up with powerful executive head of states like in France, Turkey, USA etc. who can defacto dictate policies
I think however that we can still have that same impression of electing somone - without electing that someone - if we keep a parliamentary system where, during legislative elections, the head president of running parties would campaign for Primeministership (even tho they wouldn't be directly elected, but really like will if their party win the elections, as the new legislature would nominate that person as PM) just like in Germany's system
Great video!
I'm Swiss, and the system is not perfect. People in big urban cantons feel overruled by small rural canton.
So these could be maybe lessened, by given weight to each country based on a logarithmic value. So country with less than 1 million would get weight 1, 1-10 weight 2, and 10M+ would get three.
Every couple of decades there is an intiatives to change the goverment election system, but it's always feared that letting it elect bt the people would lead to the peoples with most money winning.
So maybe there should be a seperate "President of Europe" acting as a head of state for the ceremonial part of the job, which would be elected by the people, while federal council would be elected by the parlament.
This is why I think Proportional Party Representation would be a better option.
We'll work on that in th future , the common military thing is too useful .Becouse we get to avoid the Yugoslavia problem, while not upseting the "local culture" problem.
@ In Switzerland the military is used create cohesion, because all men have to go there. (or at least in theory)
@@Videoman2000 good with that one too. Military conscription doesn't have to be abuse , it can be like a social program for the above reasons. And to get our gamer-infested youth into some kind of physical shape . So it can be a military. a social program and a well-being program in one. And of course it will make our enemies shit themselves, best part out of all of this .
@@jascrandom9855 We have proportional representation in the National council.
My god i need this
I NEED THISSSSS
THIS IS THE WAYYYYY
I born in Switzerland, i like this idea for the future
bro got an idea
a great one too
You mentionned the Swiss Communes without expanding, but they are a core component of the system, with very significant powers. A notable difference with many countries is that income tax is split between Commune, Canton and Confederacy, with the Commune having the lion's share and the Confederacy a very small one. But the latter will also collect customs, fuel taxes and VAT.
IIRC, the EU is financed via the very high VAT (a regressive form of taxation), with mandatory rates around 20%, while the Swiss rate is lower than 10% (a major obstacle to the euro-enthusiasm of some circles). But it also reflects the anomaly that Switzerland is in Europe, being significantly more economicaly and politically liberal than its neighbors, with a "small government" proclivity that is anathema to the EU behemoth.
All our best wishes for you and Switzerland
You lost me at federally administered climate change. It's a catch-all topic and can be used to mandate literally anything from any aspect of economy to energy, industry, trade, employment, even migration. Climate can't ever be surrendered to Brussels completely. And there's no point to it either. Europe only represents around 7% of global emissions, and it's already going down. All the rest, I'm on board.
Me too 😜
Stupidity never dies 🤣
I'm Swiss. And the Swiss model would definitely be perfect for the EU.
I might have my doubts, but nothing is impossible, as the Swiss model relies on favorable tax policies and free trade, which contrasts with the approach taken by the EU.
As Eurosceptic and conservative I would be in favour of swiss like eu
Wdym by being conservative?
@@LehitLisu I am conservative. ECR in EU terms. And I am converting from atheism to Catholicism.
@@lukas54cz71 i'm sorry that last sentence is just too intrtiguing to me, i understand abandoning the idiotic notion of atheism, i did it in early teens, how and why are you converting into a catholic? and especially as a czech, judging by your nickname
@@DakuHonooWhat would you convert into and why is atheism idiotic?
@@DakuHonoo I am not bothering with religion because gods are made up by men.
Love it! Thanks. This model will fit the EU perfectly.
Unfortunately, this is literally impossible given how the EU is going these days. If anything, I'm afraid we're going to revert back to being even more divided.
I don't think so. Hard decisions are made in times of crisis, and the problem with nationalism is that it's contradictory. If the US really goes into full isolationist mode then Europe will have to make hard decisions in order to survive.
Why? May you elaborate?
Not really, it needs to be announced and promoted
I've always thought that the EU resembled Switzerland in many ways and that copying Switzerland would have been a good idea given how efficient it is while keeping the sovereignty of "states"
Direct democracy ballot measures are a good idea in theory but often a terrible idea in practice. Look up California's Proposition 13, passed in 1978, which permanently devastated educational spending and still distorts housing prices to this day. Also, having lived in California and other US states that do direct democracy ballot measures, they're very frequently worded in misleading ways to intentionally fool people into voting against their own interests. And giant corporate lobbyists game the system of ballot measures just as much as they do elected representatives. I don't know if they average out to being more destructive than only having indirect democracy, or slightly better, but they're definitely not as good as you think they are.
Great video thanks!
I really believe our Swiss-style federation could be a fitting model for the EU. Of course, it might need some fine-tuning to the needs of such a large entity.
One crucial aspect of the swiss federal council, is the commen understanding by all parties that the council should be diverse (members from all major parties, gender and language region). While this is not set in law, it helps ensuring a stable government that isn't flip-flipping between a majority coalition and the opposition every couple of years. Instead, all parties govern in the executive and instead form coalitions on specific topics on the parlament (legistlative) level.
I would like this very much. I hope, we can spread this idea and make it more popular. Even if its difficult at the time. This is the futute.
swiss style is a great model very decentralised and give autonomy to states
If applied to the EU it could be an improvement - at least in the short term. Whatever reduces the power of head-of-state/Federal governments is good. As a citizen of the EU, if you offered it to me this moment, I would say yes. It could serve as a stepping stone.
Vivat Europa!🇪🇺❤️
All I found out today is that the Swiss and American systems of government are a lot more similar than I thought
This sounds like a great middle ground, something that could align with all regions' different opinions and interests, preventing a whole host of arguments about levels of sovereignity. I'm all for it.
Très intéressant, ce vidéo!
Je suis Montréalais, et j'avais 10 ans lors du référendum sur l'indépendance du Québec en 1995. Je me souviens bien les tensions, et j'en perçois encore les traces sociales aujourd'hui.
Bien que je ne sois pas certain que ce système basé sur la Suisse puisse être appliqué au Canada, la structure et les dynamiques internes sont définitivement intéressantes!
Make it happen!
thank you for an interesting thesis!
Its funny because my US government teacher said federations dont work 🕺
However I'm not sure how well the ENTIRE EU would work as a federation
what kind of teacher was that? the United States, Canada, Australia, Germany and Switzerland don't work?
@pwp8737 oh apologies, i had mistaken my own terms actually. I was thinking of a confederation, not a federation
French naturalized living in Switzerland. I thought the Swiss system would apply well to France and the EU. Now after your video I’m even more convinced it’d be a great fit for the EU
Below the video. Whether the EU should adopt the same system as the USA? I've already noted. That the EU should develop a system designed for its own needs. The best parts of the constitutions of Switzerland, the USA and Germany should then be adopted. As far as Switzerland is concerned, I am skeptical about popular referendums except on particularly important issues. Are they feasible with a population as large as the EU has? But Switzerland's two-chamber system seems to me to make perfect sense for the EU. Because it takes into account the interests of voters and nation states. And the seven-member government council also seems to make sense. In the end you will have to try it out. Whichever makes the most sense.
Oh yes, why is Ukraine on this EU map? I would like to see such a future for both Ukraine and Europe as a whole. But it hasn't happened yet.
Oh I have to correct myself now that I see the whole map. It is not intended to reflect the current situation. But the ideal situation of an entire European EU based on the Swiss model
There is no reason for Referendums not to work in the scale of the EU.
@jascrandom9855 Secure? Switzerland has a population of I think 4.9 million. While the EU has no potential candidates for membership. Has 448 million inhabitants. That would be a lot more bureaucratic effort. Which would also be vulnerable to foreign influence. Furthermore, I don't mean that referendums are generally not possible. But probably only for a certain number of people.
@@marschallhistory3286 If they can organize EU Parliamentary elections, they can do EU-wide Referendums. If India can organize elections for 1.4 billion people, so can the EU.
Since Im soberanist, Im against any type of soberanity loss in any country in the EU, but if EU converts to a country, its a lot better this system, because the soberanity isnt totally lost at all.
kinda wish we had that here in the uk, we'd probably have to merge some of the really small councils but it could work
Well Uk have 10 times bigger than Switzerland in population scale
@tiglishnobody8750 I'm quite aware bud, I live here
Yeah I agree. It would help get rid of some of the dominance London has over the rest of the country. But I’m glad we left the EU overall beacuse I don’t think a European federation would be a good idea for the uk to be a part of. I just whish the conservatives were able to make a deal where we stayed in the economic zone and had some sort of travel/work/student deal
Croatia here, fully support the idea! Don't see how any Europeans would be against mimicing the Swiss. So who is going to get this in the process and when? x)
in order to create federation all EU member republics will need to change constitution. usually changes require absolute parliament majority.
and that is a problem in these times of populism and anti globalism. i don't think that it is possible to convince a majority of citizens to get rid of their nation-state and give control to Brussels. just my opinion. there is no enthusiasm for ever closer union.
It's just won't happen. Like I'm from Poland, we have some completely different approach towards some basic manners that giving away border control to Brussels will have no support here. I can understand why countries in the middle of EU might not care but for the frontiers it looks completely different.
I see people here pushing towards united military - basically a necessity long term... But I don't see military commanded from Brussels to properly protect borders as it should and it is quite shaky to give away control over such substantial matters.
@@andrzejnadgirl2029 i am from Latvija. we just got our independence back 30 years ago. we are not jet bored by it like west Europe are. and have little intentions to give our sovereignty away once again. and for what? for who's benefit? in what name?
i love my country and nation. i do not want them to disappear.
Honestly, Switzerland is a role model for every Federation based country.
Would Switzerland join a Swiss Model EU?
I think yes. As the loss of democracy is and always was the bigest argument for the Swiss people to not join the EU.
@@0gkmedia0 I doubt it... the very conservative UDC battle against that any way they can, often using populist means. They do that because they (their interests) stand to benefit from an isolated Switzerland and they would lose that in a federal Europe. And they do their "job" very well against any idea of close relation with the EU (even when something pass the people referendum as a packet (bilaterales), they try to dismantle years latter, bit by bit... they're okay to keep the economic benefits, but also to sacrifice everything else
it isn't about the loss of democracy, but about the loss of control... the UDC can more or less control things in the "small" Switzerland but would weight close to nothing in the big EU. Sure, they would join the conservative coalition in the EU, but they (each members of the coalition) would also defend their own interests in turn, and they often oppose...
Eh... not sure if you know, the EU has 27 presidents. All the heads of government of the EU member states form the Council of the EU, which is the same as the Government of the EU.
The swiss system works also because switzerland has very low corruption, the swiss population is highly educated and often the country is put before individual needs (see people voting to increase their taxes, reject getting more paid holidays etc.), all things that are not a given in the other european countries. See how the french protested after their very low retirement age was increased (even if it's still low), or how the italian can't build large infrastructure due to corruption.
Switzerland has low corruption because Swiss population are educated and not populistic.
The Swiss Bank is famous among corrupt people around the world. What an irony. 😂😂😂
To be fair it's not because of their education, but because of how small the population is and how little diversification there is in the job sector
@@cantthinkofabettername7016 good one.
They voted against more holidays because the industry ran a massive campaign against it.
The political system works, because the SVP can not rule alone and no one wants to rule with them, otherwise populists would have taken over some time ago.
Also no idea where you get the highly educated part from. Reading and writing is the baseline, not the top, and the amount of conspiracy theory peeps or alternative medicine, antivax people is pretty decent.
There may not be as much corruption, but the nepotism is strong in many areas.
The system was in place 200y ago, when common education wasn't a thing.
It's quite simple, if people don't want certain policies, the legislature and executive need to respect that, even if your wokie moral compass is 100% sure it's better to do so... it's called ruling with democratic legitimacy.
Forcing "morally superior" change without democratic legitimation is a dictatorship. If French people don't wanna work longer, they don't want to, they'll find ways to have that working for them, by raising taxes or just not raising wages over time, etc.
Infantilizing adults or even suggesting someone's vote does matter more/less because of their education is highly undemocratic.
I 100% agree, unfortunately, here in Switzerland, this idea is not in the forefront of the public discourse, to my big regret
the Swiss model would fit the EU perfectly
I did think about this model long before this video came out and I am glad that now it gets more attention. I inspired myself from the Parlament model that gives representation based on population percentage with a small multiplier for smaller nations and a us Senat like chamber with two representatives elected by the national Parlaments and abolishing the commission for a cabinet which is different in the swiss model.
I don't think the people in charge of the EU would want a swiss system, it's too democratic for them 😅
Democracy is hard
Democracy is tyranny.
The government is a criminal organization.
Taxation is theft.
If then Switzerland were ever to join the EU it would be like inception.
An interesting video but you are mistaken on one key point. The council members are nominated by each member’s government thus who in turn is elected by the people thus making the council being indirectly elected but still a democratic representation of the countries political orientation.
What might be effect on bureaucracy due to this model?
The closer a governing body is to the people, the smaller the bureaucracy gets.
Ask the Swiss
For some reason I never considered a US/Swiss style Senate. Sounds like a potential compromise, but I would have to think about it more.
The EU's problem is the "liberum veto" of this or that member state. Once, the "liberum veto" led to the downfall of an entire country: the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the 18th century. I hope that the EU will quickly get rid of this archaism and switch to majority voting in its entirety.
The issue was that Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was too modern for its time. It literally speedran American style deadlocked parliament, absurd elements (never-ending speeches and other caveats in US and making decisions by acclamation in PLC, something also introduced by bringing up technicalities), collapse of tolerance. It was a peak dysfunctional democracy with faliling political culture
First make the European Union more democratic instead of taking away the possibility of veto.
@@DehydratedDarknessOh! You're really right! I didn't noticed that.
it's not like you can bribe any low-ranking nobleman to paralyze the country, it's the veto of entire nations, not persons
The EU’s problem is its lack of solidarity. When German and French banks were being bankrupted, they forced countries like Greece to pick up the weight. This union is nothing more than a Franco-German axis and so long that is true the veto will always be necessary to ensure the freedom of the smaller member states.
7 presidents/premiers looks optimal to never give full power for one, but also give possibility to have majority. Also in case of 3 or 5 there would be also strong sides, but with 7 it would be possible to cut importance of the edges.
Federal and Canton level also looks very good. but (6:05) equal representation would be unfair. Why voice of 300k Estonians should have same representation as 80kk Germans? In my opinion for each 5kk people (based on national subdivisions) should be 1 representative but for each country at least one. So it should stay regional representation as in Switzerland but just not based on countries. I do not think referendum should be always for whole EU. Some local referendum should be able to initiate overriding of EU decisions. To reduce some problems with lack of alignment with standardized law it should not include manufactural requirements, but in case of ideological politics law should be possible to create from the bottom up. In order to veto local changes, it would be useful to hold a supra-regional referendum during the next elections in which it would be good to vote on whether to veto, allow to stay local or harmonize common law in accordance with local changes.
Referendums are indeed great in Switzerland. However, I would be concerned about giving people that much of power outside Switzerland. We are a well-balanced country and are not polarised as some other countries. So I wonder what would happen if we would give this type of competency in some countries that have quiet a lot far-right politicians in their parlament
I would argue that implementing the Swiss model would De-radicalize and De-polarize populations. A lot of that is based on the feeling of being powerless and disconnected from the powers-that-be.
@@jascrandom9855
Good point.
I think so, although with some adaptations. I would say that it would be very important to give some competencies to the EU (like the ones the swiss federal government has) and make it very clear that everything else is on the hands of the member states. For examples, social and civil rights like LGBTQ policies, abortion, etc... should have nothing to do with the federal EU government
I hope so because EU is not going in right direction right now
Switzerland is anyhow an example of well defined and managed Democracy. The steady deadlock of political work in our Germany / France / UK etc. Democracies are not a good thing. Switzerland works better. But entire Switzerland is like a highly privileged privat school, where everything works much better than in a social confict space school. And the economically decaying EU states are nowadays all social conflict rubish.
Seems like a smart idea. Even if I passionately hate the EU. Individual countries must have more to say about their specific needs and conditions. Something that might work for continental Europe often doesn’t work for Scandinavia for example. This might be a way forward if the Union wants to have a future.
Yes, EU is either going to reform or rot. There's no in-between.
The current arrangement of EU is ridiculously inefficient (e.g. 1 member state being able to block resolutions) and leaves almost everyone unhappy, but without some sort of union we are all doomed to be dominated by bigger global players.
A federated union following the Swiss model would be ideal. One military, one foreign policy, one climate policy and one space program. The rest should be managed on state level.
You made one crucial mistake. The way you describes the presidency in the EU is not the same as in CH.
The federal council acts as one and none of its members represents it's own opinion or that of their party (except for rösti because apparently he's unfit for the position.), instead only ever representing the stance that they have agreed upon as one beforehand. That's the core principle that makes it work in the first place.
If one member were to kick off something and hand it to the next as you described fir the EU then no progress would be made on anything where there's a slight disagreement. They'd act within their department instead in a way that represents the national policies (except if your name is albert rösti who tries to influence the popular vote)
As a right-Wing populist I LOVE THE IDEA. EU FEDERATION IS THE FUTURE
Great approach. I definitely think that small regions are the future. An Austrian mountain farmer has much more in common with Italian, Slovenian, Swiss mountain farmers than with the bureaucracy located in Vienna. Greetings from Leopold Kohr, a strong promoter of this idea decades ago.
If only we managed to unite EU. Otherwise we are lost.