Patrick McNamara - The New Science of Dreaming
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Throughout history, dreams have fascinated and mystified. Messages from God? Images of the subconscious? Much about dreams is myth. What’s real? Science is now studying dreams using new techniques, especially brain imaging. What’s the data? What are the theories? Is there any room for the mystic?
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Patrick McNamara, PhD, is Director of the Evolutionary Neurobehavior Laboratory in the Department of Neurology at the BU School of Medicine and the VA New England HealthCare System.
Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” Carl Jung
👍👍👍
Fate is just a word for those wishful thinking writers who want to end their stories. Stories without endings have no fate. Death is the end like the horizon is the edge of the world. Just as ships appear from the horizon so stories continue to go on.
Complete awareness or knowledge guarantees having no fate? The Norse gods have a fate. Did Jesus' fate end with his resurrection?
The quote has been edited for clarity, changing unconscious to subconscious. So now it doesn't mean I have to make a rock conscious.🤷♂️
@Itswild38 Yes, just as there's no dark side of the moon. You can never see it from the Earth, so it mustn't be there? Color blindness must be an illusion too, according to your logic.
Have you ever seen an electron? Then electricity must not exist. Because, according to you, even though there are Christians, Jesus doest exist or, rather, never existed. You don't think Jesus existed? Then you must not believe in electrons either.
Unconscious = present in the conscious mind but so taken for granted that it is no longer observed or perceived.
I do not think it is as simple and straight forward as this researcher wants to paint it. First of all, before you start talking about nightmares, you must come up with a clear definition of what a nightmare is, because the statistics of this study obviously hinge on the definition of what a nightmare is. For example he says that for it to be a nightmare there needs to be something "demonic or monstruous". I disagree. If I dream falling off a cliff or drowning without a monster who pushed me over the edge, it is not a nightmare? Sorry, but that is kindergarten science.
Thank you, I was going to post the same thing. What is this guy talking about? There seems to always be this Freudian/Jungian whatever urge by some 'researchers' to make dreams mean what they want them to, with some fanciful symbolism attached. Humans aren't that tidy; dreams can also be complete BS and dwelling on them the opposite of what people should do.
This was very narrow and specific for the broad title, "The New Science of Dreaming". (It jumped quickly to "strange men in nightmares".) It wasn't even about "science" or the scientific method, but conjecture concerning its narrow topic, with no hypothesis or experiment, even in principle, to test the hypothesis.
Good point, I agree. I like this channel, but it's not the first time they've used a misleading title. I would really like to hear about any "new science of dreaming" from those scientists studying and/or finding new things in this area. Perhaps there are longer videos on their website, and these YT vids are just excerpts...
Please do a lucid dreams episode.
I don't believe I've ever had a true nightmare (at least that was remembered). But, I have found, as have others, that when I stop using marijuana, my dreams tend to be more vivid and / or "start again". My experience is that even minor use (like one hit a day) somehow prevents REM sleep or dreams, and when stopped, it's like the dream valve opens again. Pretty sure it's not good to not dream; the brain needs that to be healthy.
Sleeping aids also prevent REM sleep
I use weed daily give or take and have done for over a decade and my dreams have never been effected, I wonder why some people aren't effected.
@@ProjectMoff try stopping for a month. you will notice your dreams are way more vivid for a while
Same
My experience is different in regards to the cannabis, but it can definitely be a modulating factor. Dreaming doesn't seem to be confined to REM sleep for me, and probably isn't for most people, but the potential to be awoken may be higher, with the brain being in a less "deep" stage of sleep, and somewhat better able to integrate and recall the memory of the dream. I'm reluctant to call the dream contents information, but not merely for semantic reasons.
I could listen to this for hours and never get bored!
There are several incidents where dreams coincided with reality .. one example is narrated by Prof. Mustafa Mahmoud, an Egyptian prominent scientist when his friend called him in the morning & woke him up & realizes that he woke him up so he hung up & told him he’ll call him later .. Mustafa Mahmoud had a dream immediately after he fell asleep again & saw his friend in a dream in a particular market with another friend .. when he woke up he called his friend & found out that his friend was actually in that market with that friend at that time .. his friend couldn’t believe what Mustafa told him .. after this incident, Mustafa thought that God gave him a window into the unknown to let him know that God exists & he became & true believer after not being religious all his life. It’s like God teleported him to see his friend when he was sleeping, like a quantum entanglement with his friend .. Dr. Mustsfa is a very well known scientist in the Middle East & had his own science & faith shows.
Excellent
I am often scared in a dream of usually something benign, like someone walking past me, and I would be so scared in a dream that I will start to scream. But then, at some point it would be as if I am scared and at the same time I am watching myself from aside as I am being frightened. And a thought comes into my mind: "When I wake up, I will find this funny". This or versions of this happen once maybe every 2 weeks.
This is a very unbiased and intelligent scientist. Was always careful to dismiss that which hasn’t been scientifically proven like Robert was luring him to do.
I don’t think statistically you can measure the precognition of dreams, or generally ESP, because there’s no way of knowing how many people in this world have premonitions as a base number. But would makes dreams unique is that the self is viewed from the outside, almost like an out of body experience. It implies that there must be another self besides the brain , because nothing can stimulate itself
for the jungian amongst you... very interesting that Patrick McNamara found evidence of physical violence whenever a male stranger appeared in dreams, across his research... might this be evidence of jung's collective unconscious at work?... difficult to argue against
In my opinion, most Jungian archetypes can be explained less esoterically, by invoking genetically conveyed, instinctual, latent mental states, actuated under particular circumstances. I'm in no way discounting the notion of collective conscious/unconscious, as I personally believe that the "being" some refer to as god, is the eternally infinite omniverse itself, with us as infinitesimal, but not insignificant constituents.
Yep , that was an awesome video . I enjoyed the open minded attitude which is what all science needs 👍
I've had recurring dreams of being in a plane crash for over a decade. Those dreams never had a demonic presence.
I have recurring dreams of tornadoes, never been in one, nor are they demonic... just a somewhat common phenomenon on all the worlds with atmospheres, where dreams have taken location.
After a close lightning strike where lightning actually entered my house, I repeatedly dreamed of a menacing figure standing over me in bed with smoke pouring off its body. I would wake up fighting it off. Slowly over time that terror dream monster went away. I think the near lightning strike temporarily affected my neuro chemistry.
wow
Sounds like your unconscious dealing with the terror of coming that close to your mortality.
@@johnnytass2111
I think it was also a biological effect. When the lightning blast shockwave and plasma invaded the house I involuntarily felt pure terror unlike anything before or since and slid across the floor as if some outside force was propelling me although it was my own muscles and legs doing it. My thinking was also affected. My mind was messed up. That went away but then the weird waking dreams began. I say waking because the smoking figure hovering over me seemed 100% real. It was an authentic evil spirit, although I realized my own mind was manufacturing it. Good thing, because I wouldn't want to believe things like that are real.
I'm continually amazed at how basic dream science is in these conversations. How approximate, how simply inaccurate. Dude says if there's a strange man in your dream there's gonna be violence. Not in my experience. I've had what folks call lucid dreams my whole life. And one thing I started doing in these dreams long ago, was finding people in the dream - strangers, many of them men - and ask them for advice or for wisdom or help with some problem I was having in waking life. At first, these folks would almost always be avoidant and tell me to leave them alone or that they're "nobody." But I'd persist and eventually they'd turn to me, drop character, and tell me big stuff, or take me somewhere or they'd transform into another form, like a fox headed man, and give me important information about my life.
Lots of these conversations were with male strangers in the dream - also women and even animals and "presences." But, no, says Dr. Authority, if there's a male stranger in the dream, there will be violence. I don't know what to do with these people.
Another thing: they say ya can't read in dreams, and, again, I read all the time. I'm a writer, been a writer since I was very young, so, it makes sense, but so many Dr. Authority types say, nope. Ya can't read in dreams. Anyway. It's frustrating.
The most interesting aspect of dreaming to me is that I frequently see people from my past (usually my parents) that are long deceased but I never realize that fact while dreaming. There must be some component of the dreaming process that suspend normal logic.
I meet dead relatives in dreams too, but I always know it and remember trying to figure out how its possible.
I have my dead mother, brother, and step father show up in dreams quite often. Never once in the dreams do I say to myself, "hey, wait a sec, aren't these folks all dead?". I also have dreams about people, say from elementary school, that I have not thought about in decades show up in my dreams. Go figure!?! And why do we have dreams that make us wake up with a smile on our face or scared and pissed off because it was far from a dream, it was a nightmare?
Memory does not equal logic.
Both can be absent any time.
@@FishHeadSalad On the converse, have you ever had friends/family, you deeply care about in the world the dream took place in, to wake and realize that they aren't part of this waking reality?
I have this experience too.
Mostly I have enjoyable dreams, especially when I can fly, wondering about it at the same time, and visiting most beautiful places. There is even a mental technique I use to lift up. What a shame that it does not work in daytime. Night mares I only remember from childhood.
Dreams have deep meaning Messages for our survival
As a lucid dreamer I can confirm both experiences from myself and others that there is *something* to dream premonitions.
For example the experience is way more common than you'd think. Most people have experienced this at least once. I'm not referring to dejavu either.
I myself have had plenty of experiences like this. Two notable ones in which the events lined up pretty much perfectly.
The brain also does try to predict the future while asleep, perhaps it somehow makes well educated guesses based on subconscious cues or maybe it's all a coincidence.
Either way it's something worth looking into
Thank you RLK for another excellent exploration on the frontiers of consciousness. Your guidance in the direction of the discussion was exceptional and brought out the most interesting aspects of the topic.
Dreams are your most recent thoughts, fears, and experiences being alchemized with your past fears, thoughts, and experiences to produce new, abstract information. Dreams force you to think about things in more diverse ways. Every once and a while these alchemies can organize themselves into a cohesive sequence of events that seem provocatively real.
These are the dreams we believe to be relevant or epiphanic, but they really aren't. ... It's just "you" working out your own existence.
We never ask the scientifically impossible things in our dreams .
We never ask why we can jump from one place into another place instantaneously .
Carrying on from our ESP discussion, our free association during the dream state, picks up on near future events via quantum entanglement with our future brain state. Our neurons are subject to quantum effects, like retrocausality, and can amplify those weak quantum influences. This happens while you sleep because this weak signalling is not drowned out by your conscience thoughts. Most people have reported having dreams about a long lost friend who they haven't dreamed about in years and then running into to them the very next day. Most skeptics try to write it off as deja vu, that you are only having a false memory of the dream. But many times, you tell another person about your dream before it is fulfilled, to which a skeptic will say it was just a coincidence and cite how many times people dream about others and they don't see them the next day. I think I recall you were a strong skeptic concerning ESP. It would be interesting if psychologists conducted a sleep study experiment where they asked the subjects to describe their dreams. Then, show them a randomly chosen, intensely happy, erotic, action packed, or horrifying movie and see if the movie correlates to their dream. Subjects should have both skeptics and people who are open minded about precognition. It would be interesting if skeptics showed little correlation while open minded subjects faired better. The conductors would have to categorize the subjects dreams before they were shown the randomized movie to avoid bias of their categorization. Of coarse, maybe there would be no correlation whatsoever in either group. This experiment would be a derivative experiment of Daryl Bem's experiments described in Slate magazine online. Have you ever had a premonition that you wrote off as chance?
In our dreams our mind creates a subject to experience the objects that our mind also created. Who's to say our "real" waking state is not something analogous? 🤔
Fascinating conversation with Patrick McNamara. His emphasis on the role of the self strikes a chord with me. As I've commented elsewhere on CTT, I often get the impression, in a dream, that I am encountering another self's engagement with reality in another part of the cosmos - hence my conjecture regarding "entangled, nonlocal selves".
I no longer have nightmares though. I wonder if, in a dream, where I now intercept another entangled self's engagement with reality through their body, other people might consider such an encounter frightening and intercept it as a nightmare. In this context, McNamara's references to the demonic element in nightmares is fascinating. Food for thought.
Omg... have I finally found somebody else who understands, the truth of dreaming, and it's relation to the omniverse? I've espoused a similar view for most of this lifetime. This guy being interviewed is rehashing freud and jung. I have so many questions for you... Have you looked at maps or mirrors? Skies? Technology? How much are you able to retain? Agreed, that a quasi entanglement/superposition of mind through other "versions" of self. I also no longer have nightmares, there may be realities horrific through the lens of this life, but seem normal to mundane within the experience. Dreaming isn't confined to REM sleep for me, another POV is being witnessed, from the moment I sleep to to time I wake. There is so much more to say, much of which human language cannot convey, but mathematics and art, must both play a part in forming such abstract conceptualizations.
To claim that I "understand the truth of dreaming" was grandiose, and solely due to my amazement at your comment. The truth is, dreaming is probably the most mysterious and important ability we have, and I understand almost nothing of the infinite... regardless, it's time to bring this subject out of the realm of metaphysics and fortune tellers, and realize the philosophical ramifications of a very real, albeit highly subjective phenomenon.
@@David.C.Velasquez I'm no fan of the multiverse (omniverse). The universe is amazing enough as it is, without having to go the mv route ;) But otherwise I agree with you. There is something about the way things are that must make sense, something simple and general, and I anticipate a more complete understanding of QM and its principles to lead the way.
@@TheTroofSayer Fair enough, but how can you postulate the existence of other "non local selves" without the reality of a level 1 multiverse, at the very least? Your "conjecture" makes no sense, if you don't embrace the full ramifications of nonlocality.
@@David.C.Velasquez Our understanding of QM remains incomplete, assailed as it is by controversies from all directions. I watched Dr Brian Keating's compelling debunking of multiverse theory just the other day. We don't need to go there, it's bad science. Here's how I'd argue the toss, without having to go all MV.
Why do I think that entangled selves should taken seriously? I cannot prove it, but by inference, I can justify why I see no other alternative.
If one is a physicalist, then they will assume that the "self" is somehow "programmed" into the genetic code, and for them, every creature's presence is of brief, fixed duration. Birth, stuff happens, death. End of story. The brain-as-computer exists only so long as the DNA-determined circuits are operative, and then it ceases. No mystery about that. Just like a computer, while it works is good, when it's broken is junk. Impossible to prove or disprove, though the notion of a self "programmed" into the brain runs counter to arguments in other contexts, such as entropy theory. Impossible to convince physicalists otherwise. For non-physicalists, however, I proffer the following:
1. Every creature enters the world in innocence, and learns "how to be" from the contexts in which it finds itself. Where is this learning, or "becoming", programmed or stored? If a self "enters" its world in innocence, what prior state did it come from? Is the self a becoming that must have originated from a different place? Is there a progression for becoming, that begins with single cells, proceeding up the hierarchy to multicellular organisms and eventually, culturally immersed organisms, such as humans?
2. If we accept the premise of 1, regarding "becoming" across prior states, & if we reject physicalism outright, then we must conclude some manner of entanglement to be playing out;
3. From 2, it follows that if you exist as a complex organism with complex motivations, then you must have "come from" somewhere. If we dump physicalism, then where and how? Where was the prior "you"? How did you get here, then, if not through the DNA-data-sequence of your parents?
Nonlocal, entangled selves, then, stands as the only viable alternative to physicalism, to explain the persistence of selfhood across time, and these relate to questions of ontology, phenomenology and epistemology. Unless you want to go the route of gods and souls, but that's no longer science.
So what might be the mechanism for entanglement? We can only conjecture, but my favorites are entanglement in thought (eg, dreams), or entanglement via DNA (as distinct from DNA-data programming).
Very interesting topic.
Who's to say dreams don't predict or even let us see the future, even if from time to time? There's so many things we (still) don't know, that believing dreams don't predict the future would be just as foolish as believing they do. You can predict that we'll arrive at the conclusion that they don't predict it, and that's fine, but don't firmly believe in it. And you can argue that they they don't predict the future, absolutely fair, but you can never be sure unless you get to know a lot more about the brain that we currently do.
"you can't understand consciousness without dreams. You can't understand the self without consciousness"
i dream about windmills what does that mean?
He lost me at thinking there is something to precognitive dreams because it hasn't been proven to be random. Nessie hasn't been proven to not exist either.
A high school teacher, 1971 asked students to attempt to control their dreams. This proposal considered controlling the material concentrated upon before sleep.
I learned much from this proposal.
I appeared before the Surgeon General of the US Navy saying PTSD is learned behavior. The reverse is using the same mechanisms. ...more to be said.
There is lucid dreaming and there is lucid living... and there is the dreamer... and dreaming...😊
Shh, that’s not scientific and Robert may get triggered...
(It’s an irony, there’s great scientific research on that, but mainstream science dismisses it)
Dream yoga.
Ooof... you actually thought you said something significant..smh.
As pee my humble opinion, precognitive dreams open up a window of time for us to look at the exact future and this is why we often see things even before they happen in the future.
I had bad dreams for years every time I went to a certain place in buildings I could feel this horrible thing/atmosphere, it was horrible and scary, in my waking day it would bother me from time to time then one nightmare I fooled it and locked it in a old castle like tower block where I used to work, obviously in my dream and never had them again for years only odd occasion it happens but I keep well away from certain places in my dream.. very strange.. another occasion I was always chased by people and some with dogs eventually I turned up at the house they lived in and asked why they told me that they had stolen there child so I went back returning the child never had that dream again...
Very interesting.... and I can relate. Location while sleeping, whether perceived as safe or ominous, and everything in between, seems to have a big effect on dream location and content. More importantly, in my view, is the other part you said... where there are places in dreams we keep well away from. As if places and events in the dreaming may have some causal influence on our waking reality.
Repetitive nightmare disorder / possession is a deeply intimate topic for me. Does anyone know where any schools of thought, mentors, researchers that would be good to look into and reach out about this outside of Prof. McNamara. Any response ismuch appreciated.
I'm no decorated expert YET. But I'm willing to give you any perspective I can offer.
Dreaming is healing
Even though it has been many years since doing a tour in Viet Nam in the Marines, I still have a lot of very violent dreams. In the past few years it is kind of funny how whenever I try to use my phone in a dream it never works and there are odd pictures on the screen. This happens so often that sometimes I know I am dreaming because of the phone. I also wonder if heroic doses of LSD back in the 70's can affect the dream world. Duh.
Yeah, time, text and pictures are always weird, odd or incomplete in dreams. In fact those are some objects to use as reality checks for induction of lucid dreaming. Seems like you came onto that organically. I played around with lucid dreaming 7 or so years back.I had to work at it since I'm not a natural lucid dreamer. My best reality check was simply looking at my hands. Fingers would be all funky. One way too long, Another way too short. Some too thin and others too fat. Or too many on one hand and not enough on the other.
I'd practice those reality checks a dozen or so times throughout the day. Eventually it does seep into dreams, especially with intention setting while falling to sleep.
In my childhood, I think perhaps from the age of 3 to 5, I had a repetitive dream in which always began with me finding myself in a vortex. I had the thought during the dream that if I allowed myself to be sucked down into the dark depths of the vortex I would cease to exist. I would die. By sheer force of willpower, as I remember it even to this day (I’m over 75) I was able to prevent myself from falling beyond what I believed to be the critical point.
I should add that I was a forceps delivery. Perhaps that was the cause of the dreams. I really couldn’t say. They were certainly nightmares.
That happens when you have high temperature in your body there are many similar reports to our hospital about votrex dreams all have common thing called fever
I don't think we can predict the future, but what if time is actually a wave that could bounce and reflect back to itself, like a wave hitting a cliff rock and some how the future could affect the time right here and now or even the past before it happened. Or I could just take my medicine. :)
Ultimately what is the difference between dreams and everyday waking consciousness, basically the everyday world lasts longer!!! If the mind can conjure up dreams with sometimes such creativity and meaning, who's to say it doesn't conjure up our everyday world in much the same way?
"It's not been demonstrated that it's a coincidence". It hasn't been demonstrated that it's NOT either. And which is more likely?
How in the world do you prove it's a coincidence?
Male strangler's dream = Obstructive sleep apnea exacerbated by REM atonia in the supine position, interpreted through cultural and archetypal symbolism.
Possession dreams = Attempts by the self to reintegrate the part split off during the strangler dream.
This is from a decade-long practitioner of OBEs who acknowledges the existence of the paranormal. My first encounter was a bout of precognitive dreams, which are undeniably real.
We are "real" only in our dreams! when we are awake is when we are "dreaming"... who can tell the difference 😀
Dreaming the dream state is a medicine state where all sickness can be cured but has prerequisites to entering it if you want the cures
Does anyone know how old this interview is? CTT and Robert tend to do these interviews during symposiums with the guest speakers.
Geez, I was tired, but now I’m afraid to go to sleep.
We have a Eternity-Body,
it holds six Organs/Under-bodies,
our physical body, is a Gravity-Body.
At normal sleep, We do move our Day-consciousness,
to our five Night-bodies, (Deep-Sleep-periods)
one by one, via our Coupling-Body, (REM-sleep)
Dreams, but also, Coma, NDE, OBE,
is experienced through the Coupling-Body, REM,
Greetings, Messages, Warnings, mostly in end of night,
before wake.
The Eternity-Body holds our Over-Consciousness, as holds,
our Under-Consciousness, = Day-Consciousness and Night-Consciousness.
(Instinct, Gravity, Feeling, Intelligence, Intuition, Memory,)
I think Patrick here is talking about a specific type of dream from a specific kind of person. When I encounter demons, monsters, bad people (usually men), I fight them and beat them; however, I myself am a man, so it's perhaps my psychological role among the population to fight other men, demons, and monsters. I'm not saying that culture or society ought to dictate your life roles. There can and should be tough women who can fight monsters, demons and ill-intentioned men. I think Patrick is especially interested in studying the women who feel powerless in their dreams/lives. Perhaps women who feel like they can't protect themselves (sometimes men, too) have recurring dreams of something attacking them. I'm glad that I can fend off my imagined demons. I'm sorry not all of us can, but perhaps it takes all kind of people to form a healthy population. Who knows?
Dreams demonstrate the ability of our brains to construct a world in our heads. While awake, this ability is utilized to recreate a world from our sensory inputs. When dreaming, this world building ability is not constrained by our sensory inputs to the same degree as when awake. Instead, it is feed by our subconscious thoughts and feelings. So analyzing your dreams is a good way to expose your unconscious motivations. However, they don't necessarily have purpose. They are a side effect of your world building neural networks running open loop.
Practicing lucid dreaming leads to more deja vu experiences, and sometimes even to pre-cognitive dreams. Explain that!
Why didn't he ask him about lucid dreaming?
Grant me victory over those that do me wrong.
Has anyone been able to locate the study (I assume) he's referring to with respect to male strangers in dreams? I have been looking and cant even find mention of it, but SEO for anything about dreaming is kinda garbage
To follow up, I found "The reinterpretation of dreams: An evolutionary hypothesis of the function of dreaming" (10.1017/S0140525X00004015) which references the 1966 "The Content Analysis of Dreams. By Calvin S. Hall and Robert L. Van de Castle" (10.1192/bjp.112.490.963) as well as a more recent "Finding meaning in dreams: A quantitative approach." (domhoff 1996) (10.1007/978-1-4899-0298-6)
I’ve had spiritual or transcendent lucid dreams, so what does that mean?
"life is but a dream" -- Buddha
many enlightened ones throughout history have had dreams inspire them, many in very specific ways...there is even Dream Yoga (like lucid dreaming)
I never remember my dreams
I never had serious nightmares in my entire life .
I never got scared, I never experienced extreme fear in my dreams.
I'm already 70
Yea it's rare for me. I usually only remember the profound ones, like one every few years. But sometimes bits or flashes of typical dreams. Interesting how some dreams you remember forever.
i see many things in my dream, the place,people,book,item, new to me, thats not earthly thing. i think dream is one kind of streaming. but in my house not everyone dream same.
COMEDY : I dream often, and often have dreams which are funny, sometimes so much so I wake up laughing or smiling. Why is this guy so fixated on "horror".
I can't recall every having his "male stranger" scenario. For me, a friendly animal, like say a cat, will become unexpectedly violent and attack.
I think many people who go into psychology have their own inner demons that they hope to understand. Then, patients come in because they want their own inner demons to be diagnosed. Shiny, happy people don't go see psychologists. Selection bias.
I don’t think he started out fixated on it. But when you have enough subjects record their dreams and you parse that data, certain trends come up. That’s what he’s exploring apparently
@@wmpx34 Well, he did say the majority were women, or those pre-psychotic, and that's where the money is, so understandable.
Confused conversation that doesn't elucidate much of anything. (yes, nightmares are interesting, and, no, no one has disproven precognition in dreams)
Confused here are "consciousness" and "self".
The first is a phenomena whereby we "see" the world and our "selves".
The second, the "self", is a emotional-psycho-conceptual-physical creation of the human animals we are.
Great series, but in all of these segments I've yet to see a psychologist who is studying the human experience of consciousness.
For a true scientific approach to a phenomena that is entirely self reported (i.e. there can be no third party confirmed observation of it) that seems like the place one must start.
I swear this same conversation has been posted before.
It is still a big mystery how our mental apparatus constructs a picture of reality from all of our environmental inputs while awake. In fact, there are still no really good ideas to solve this "big problem" of consciousness. It seems incomprehensible how , seemingly randomly, gazillions of neural circuits coordinate to create a vivid dream or nightmare for us while sleeeping. Freud was right, much of conscious behavior along with our dreams are driven by subconscious dynamics.
Finally a scientist who does not dismiss something such as pre-cognitive dreams that have been recorded throughout history, across cultures. 👍🏻
A lot of things have been recorded by those in the past, doesn't make it closer to any sort of truth
@@GeorgieKiely science doesn't know any truth
@@dongshengdi773 You're not helping your case with more nonsense.
I don't know about nightmares being about "destroying the self". Sounds more like a not-so-obvious interpretation of the data, maybe one that aligns with the assumed hypothesis that dreams are about building the self, for example?
I wonder what sort of nightmares Fred and Rosemary west had - happy families?
I've been having nightmares for about the past month and a half in which I die in various ways. Only 1 that I can remember has been by a "monster," and this monster was an alien life-form, the others have been at the hands of humans (and interestingly, they have been male strangers lol). I don't really get why a nightmare has to have a demonic or monster presence to be considered a nightmare. I'm also not religious so maybe that plays a role
My nightmares always show lions or Tigers. Not men.
I dream everyday and kinda dont know which is real sometimes
Some strange neighborhood challenges the ego to anxiety is hard to prove😄.
Unexpected Artie Lang reference.
Study how the blind from birth dream. Do they "see" a "stranger", too?
We are computers or robots if you will. Dreams simply regurgitate recent current events encroaching as data input.
When I was a kid I had nightmares about monsters. They were usually unseen.
As a teenagers I had sometimes nightmares about people trying to kill me.
Last nightmare was 30 years ago when I was 25.
Interesting. Did the malevolent, nightmare content stop, and your dreams became rosy playgrounds, or did the content remain unchanged, but your fear left?
Is this Steven King with new glasses?
Subjective >---< Objective
Precognitive dreams could be evidence of neurological activity at a time altering quantum level
Perhaps,
Or sensing the quantum state of the universe...
Would it be impossible for our super conscious to be smarter than we realize? That what we perceive as precognition, is actually our brains putting seemingly improbably events together, to predict a future we couldn't imagine in our waking quotidian lives?
Else they could be rising from the collective unconscious.
Nietzsche said we always dream in ways that are interesting to us. Nobody ever had a boring dream.
You cannot claim that if you don’t have statistical data to support it. I have had tons of boring dreams. One exception is enough to invalidate the words “nobody” and “ever” in your sentence. But I’m not the only exception, since some people I know have had boring dreams too.
@@RogerioLupoArteCientifica ummmmm... I'm going with Nietzsche on this one ; _)_
*"Nobody ever had a boring dream."*
... I've had Sisyphean dreams where I keep doing the same laborious task over and over until I wake up. Whereas this may seem boring on paper, ... in my dream it was horrific!
@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC Yes, my hypothesis is that there is probably nothing more tailor made for us than our dreams; they're like books or movies written or directed solely for us.
Good questions. Patrick came across a bit unscientific.
The dissolving of the self or Ego, is the whole point of some philosophies.😂
❤ Thanks a lot what a wonderful talk! [Actually Bible has already told us something true about dreams and self identity, e.g. Gen 1:20~21, 1:26~27, 2:7; Deut 6:5 and Lev 26:30, the core of self is human's godly soul, and both God and human have animal souls you may call the animal soul angels in the theological terms... ] 2:06 ... 👍dreams are about something. ... this very simple fact okay male strangers are going to get physical aggression that's a very reliable finding and that tells me that dreams are not just bizarre random things that just you know fluff of the mind at night. No! There's something serious going on here. 2:31 so how can we begin to explore that I mean nightmares we all have nightmares either to a greater or lesser degree and sometimes it's you know if I ate lit and too late at night or had particular stress sometimes for no reasons at all so uh how do you begin to begin to what else can we see about nightmares. 2:50 ... what are some uncanny things associated with nightmares and dreams, one of the most interesting ones in nightmares is for somebody to call a dream a nightmare there typically has to be some sort of what I call a demonic element in the nightmeare. A monster not just a male stranger not just a threatening figure but something monstrous something that really starts to incite Terror and that's when you're going to remember the nightmare and that's when the nightmare really starts to have effects on daily activity as well. 4:08 ... I would say what it indicates is that nightmares and dreams in general about the self the monster's interested in the self in you you're not interested in other things going on he's after you and it's not a big way not interested in stealing your mind no he wants to devour your identity until you are dissolved away you know it's probably what a schizophrenic feels when they're having an episode of psychosis like they're literally just fragmenting away and 5:55 7:38 I don't know about that I don't think this there have been good studies on it to you know I don't think we should dismiss them as you know coincidences when you read report after report after report down through the centruries every culture reports these quote unquote precognitive dreams there's something to it I don't know what I'm not saying that these dreams do predict the future I'm not saying that but I'm saying there's something interesting going on and it's not been rigorously investigated yet. 8:08 I mean face it. PM: yeah ... well no I don't think so I mean to say that there's something interesting about these so-called precognitive dreams that I think is almost a banal 乏味的 state they are pretty interesting. 9:00 so looking at the totality of dreams especially these bizarre offshoots the nightmares the precognitive dreams you really can't uh you really can't understand consciousness without dealing with this. PM: I completely agree 👍you can't understand the self without dreams and you can't understand consciousness without understanding the self so to really get at you know the nature and functions of the self what is this thing we call identity what is that who are we really it's worthwhile looking at dreams becasue dreams are very intimately involved in constructing what Freud called the ego identity.
We are realizing something monstrous,
There is truth in out dreams most noxious,
When we observe the manifestations,
They cross religion races and nations,
Because dreams come from the collective unconscious.
Absolutely falacies. Guts keep out houw show dreams though true evidence. Freud did it but guys abstract dreams witouth evidence. He shows opinion instead standard model.
Um... says mostly women have nightmares (or do women report more?) then says there is always a 'man' in the background and that means violence in the nightmares... um, what are the deep backgrounds of women and some men that report such? This, as he is talking about, does not seem complicated at all-- have these folks been attacked or know someone close who has been attacked by a man? Sample size of 1,000... are these 1,000 from the recorded group who seek doctors help? Hmmmm
There is so much more to dreams and the comingling of consciousness, subconscious, and native brain interactions than what is being discussed here.
And Freud was a quack.
It’s more important to recall how the dream made you feel than the exact content of the dream😂
I'm 64 and have never had a violent nightmare. I think this guy has been through some disturbing things.
Yeah, this is a disappointing episode and especially since I practiced lucid dreaming for a time and have a good amount of meditation under my belt. A couple of weeks back I was reading some of the dream journals I compiled 6 & 7 years back. Some very interesting dreams including some really epic ones, spanning many days and sometimes weeks of dream time with intense sensory perception/experience. The flying dreams were always cool and I also had dreams about somehow ending up in a private plane, happily flying around and usually at night. Also being an astronaut and going up into space. The lucid ones were the best though even though they were short, with the longest maybe 15-30 minutes of dream time.
I never had a violent nightmare either. The worst ones were when I was young I'd be frozen at the kitchen window, looking out and watching Godzilla approaching. It would end as his last footstep was about to crush the house. LOL! I also had recurring tornado nightmares but no one ever got killed. It was always scrambling to find shelter and I always did.
They were only dreams and never intruded into my waking reality.
Oh yeah, I'm 64 too!
Grandpa you don't remember anything 😂😂.
❤😊
Mr Hyde is in there.😂
Dreams tell you something about yourself. When you lack movement, it uses people who tend to think about as your armor to tell you to move. I disobeyed one 2 days ago but suffered it today, some minutes ago.
I never had serious nightmares in my entire life .
I never got scared, I never experienced extreme fear in my dreams.
I'm already 70
we cant control our sleep/wake-up time..
David Eagleman recently came up with an explanation that I suspect will be the final word and it is much simpler than you think.
“They tend to be women with thin boundaries.” i.e. borderline personality disorder or borderline traits.
2:00 Interesting.
I'm curious:
Does the male stranger appear equally in the dreams of both men and women?
And is the occurrence have equal predictive weight when it comes to physical violence in the dreams of both sexes?
Go Bluejays!
When your neurons or physical brain is sleeping, then who is awake freely observing the dream ?
Of course, the answer is your awake immortal soul (consciousness) who never sleeps dwelling temporarily inside your sleeping brain, aware.
I don't find this "male stranger = violence" so interesting. More like: "Duh". You have to be very out-of-touch to even entertain the notion that dreams are the "fluff of the mind". No one sane thinks that or has ever thought that.
Which is probably part of the problem: it's the semi-crazies who do this research. The rest of us already know much of this.
Using terms like monsters, demons and demonic doesn"t sound like proper science.
They should change this channels name to
"Closer to Fringe"
This isn't physics or chemistry, it's a science of dreaming.
@@kitstamat9356
It's way too subjective to be called a science.
So as far as i can see it's an art not a science.
Interesting, this female doesnt see aggressive male strangers during dream dramas just stupid ones, like what! you again? lol. Instead i see myself having infantile tantrums when i cant understand something. My dreams are lessons, they take the form of events, objects and friends. (Waking self is a learning junkie) .
If i cant explore a new state of consciousness i might feel emotionally robbed or lost and conjure images that my car has been stolen freakout! (which usually wakes me up pronto) or I start searching for it bewildered through a carpark maze with many levels.
Present passed and new friends, vehicles and rooms play symbolising roles as though the brain is filing waking memory bank. E.G. sometimes a new room in my home (which is rarely the one i live in) will suddenly appear and im like "wow how did i never see this before, yippee extra space!" Lol. If my mental privacy feels invaded i become disgrunted and start locking doors .
The finer details and their sequences are rarely remembered. If i find a highly sort after treasure (usually an aspect of consciousness) I'll sneak it into the next dream, yep dream thief lol. Self pride comes in sometimes feeling chuffed at successfully teaching someone how easy it is to fly, you just jump and stay up gliding above everything lol.
There seems to be 360° views bc sometimes i see my own form and lots of colors, even an occasional unashamed nakedness which is SO NOT my waking inhibitedness. My dreaming self doesnt care about superficialities its too busy exploring, learning having fun. Learning opens doors, it travels, makes worlds.
Bit of an echo.
Patrick, i don't think you are right. I come from a royal family and know a thing or two about dreams.
This guy is full of it. Get some serious researchers.
I suggest that dreams are a precursory glimpse of the vast potential of our minds - a potential that will be fully revealed to us at the moment of death where we will discover that we (as the *"agents"* and controllers of our own personal matrix of mental holography) have been imbued with the same creative ability as God, and that in the context of our eternal existence, we will eventually be able to create a universe out of the fabric of our own minds, just as God (our ultimate parent) has done with her mind.
I killed a God in my dreams so, am i a God
I guarantee you that this discussion has zero value in understanding the real process called consciousness.
haha someone has a very low threshold for evidence as a scientist :)