The Evolution Of Queerbaiting: From Queercoding to Queercatching
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ม.ค. 2019
- From The Hays Code to the new phenomenon of "queercatching" - here is the history of queerbaiting. Including all your favourite like every Disney villain ever, Destiel, Valkyrie, Johnlock, Sterek, Le Fou, Sulu, the Yellow Power Ranger, and more!
Videos mentioned in this one:
Queercoding Disney Villains: • Why Are Disney Villain...
Reacting to Queerbaiting: • Gays React To Queerbai...
Respectability Politics: • Can You Be Too Gay? |...
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Do people not realize gay people start out as kids? Like... there are gay kids. There is literally no reason gay relationships should be considered any less kid friendly than straight relationships.
Some homophobes choose to think that gays "choose" their sexuality and that it's a "trend." :/ Really sad. Hope they'll be saved by the gay gods.
Sadly, most people think that all kids are straight, until they've been "recruited" by gay predators. We live in the stone ages. :-(
OMG exactly this: th-cam.com/video/JrWkNI4X5mk/w-d-xo.html
Cameron is spot on with exactly this sentiment!
Sadly aside from straight up homophobes there are also people who think they are super supportive, but see gay relationships as disproportionally more sexual than heterosexual relationships. As if gay people only experience physical attraction to eachother. It's really sad and frustrating
Joline Witsen if that's what they think then they're not "super supportive"
Str8 ppl: You can’t put gay people in a kids show! They’ll get the wrong idea! It could mess them up!
Also str8 ppl: **makes a bee and a human fall in love**
BEASTAILITY FOR THE WIN. ( Bestiality for the win) they legit said that lol. 😭😂😂😂
Ewww, what, is that fr?? Whoever thought that was good idea needs help.
And I ship it...
Wtf is wrong with me
@@NoeBIchez the bee movie
The bee movie only gets a pass because it is so ballistic
The thing is. How many straight couples do you see kissing or waking up together/sleeping in the same room in children's media? A FREAKING TON!! And it is never seen as perverse or inappropriate. So...why would it be whith LGBTQ+ characters???
@@deatheye4576 then why are you here go away
@@HouseOfWanda Here come the trolls...
I agree, I don't like the idea of people forcing writer to put representation in there work, but I think if a writer wants to make a movie/show/book about LGBTQ person then that wonderful.
this is very easy to explain. You see that in media and it is not innapropiate becaue man+woman=prepetuating the species. It is one of the basic facts of life. The other is just romance, which doesn't have the same weight, because it is not encoded in our reptilian brain.
April Moon The phrase “it is not encoded in our reptilian brain” amuses me to no end and I will be stealing it.
My girlfriend’s mom picks us up from a date
Me: “Wow, thay was such a great DATE!
My girlfriend: “so romantic, too!”
Her mom: “aw, you two are such good friends!”
🤦🏽♀️
Yeah. Have lived with my gf and her Mom for 8 years now. We sleep in the same bed, despite there being extra rooms. We openly cuddle. We discuss marriage openly. She still, apparently, has no clue.
@@GlitterFlame89 I'm sorry but that's one of the funniest things I've ever heard. Thank you for that. Also I'm happy for you! Sounds like a decent arrangement actually lol
@@idedimi Haha, actually it really is a great arrangement! I am completely included as family, and no prying questions or intrusion in our relationship that she is oblivious to! Thought at first it would bother me, but I have to say it doesn't at all.
@@GlitterFlame89 wow they were roommates.
*kisses you* "i love our friendship bro"
No homo, am I right
When you no homo kiss your hommie
Just guys being dudes
@@pienoaji What's better than this?
@@eugeniabukhman8533
Even more bros , like orgy large but we aren't actually gonna preform one.
This scene with two men from silent film was so expressive and beautiful.
I know right?
I wonder does anyone know the song which was played at the scene?
You can get so much emotion into a scene without using words.
@@Heleyrine Then You Look At Me by Celine Dion but that's not the original which I quickly looked up thinking Celine remixed a 1920's movie score...lol
I was like "now I want to see this movie so I can CRY MY EYES OUT during this scene (again)!"
Disney has a "first openly gay character" every week
it’s ok, you can say onward
@@itsyaboiq187 the cop in onward makes me want to hurl myself off a bridge
I swear they only do that just because they end up censoring it in the end 💀
@@apricot4510 no but actually yes. They want to put it in for the brownie points, but they have to make it small enough that the Chinese (and Middle Eastern) version of the films can cut them out without losing main plot points
@@dwell7315 Yeah that's what I mean. They want those points but they're also not completely willing to take that 'risk', just to appeal to as many markets as possible. It's an unfair compromise of them making canonically queer characters but not actually acknowledging or giving them proper representation.
Sub: These characters love each other dearl-
Dub: *C O U S I N S*
sailor moon intensifies
That makes it worse! Incest is not wincest!
Card capture sakura, reporting for duty
@@cutecobra9696 it's ok their not gay just strangely intimate to the point that they are clearly gay and also it's insist now so it can't even be just a gay romance.
They made it even worse there’s so many scenes in there that implied incest
that silent film just added 10 years to my lifespan
I ALMOST CRIED IT WAS SO HEARTWARMING
Same
I ALMOST CRIED
Yeah, same. I was so caught up watching it that I didn't want it to end :(
same though
*two men kiss and lovingly stroke each others hair* straight people: just friends !1!!!1 :)))))))))))))
In the English dub of Sailor Moon, they turn lesbians into cousins and GOSH it gets weird when they start gazing at each other.
Salor moon sub:Salor Neptune and Uranus are a couple
The Dub: THERE COUSINS!!!
Context matters: are they a Korean boyband or literally anyone else? The rules are different for Korean boy bands.
It's just dudes being bros! Have you never held your platonic bro friend while he's dying, kissing him, stroking his hair, and declaring that his friendship and love are the most important things in your life? But like as friends?
Just dudes being bros
It's so sad that Taika Waititi acutally wanted to make Valkyrie openly bi but Marvel didn't let him :(
Shes going to be openly bi in Thor 4! Tessa's words were "As the new King of Asgard, Valkyrie is on a quest to find her queen" and I'm extremely excited!
Some Crazed Nerd YES, I’M SO EXCITED!!!!
@@goodjobeli ikr, that's so awesome! And its in a movie that has the word "love" in the title, so they'd have to seriously mess up if her bisexuality ends up getting swept under a rug
@@cicidiaries I hope they are explicit about her being in love with a woman but also as a bi person I need them to also be explicit about her being bi and not a lesbian. Cause I'm so sick of bi erasure
Jac Gibson I’m curious about this, how they can show she is bi without showing only her interest in women to avoid labeled as just lesbian?
Ah yes....the friendship....I too lie in bed tenderly caressing my friends....kissing them...yeah.....friendship
I mean... what else do you do with your friends ?
@@julietournier4319 go watch the sunset while drinking some hot beverage while laying your hand on their shoulder, wrap your arms around their waist and telling then you love them ofcourse!
Just classic roommate stuff
I like how it said "friendship" after a kiss scene. They looked totally in love from the way they held each other to the way he wanted him to stay. Crying.
I know, it was so beautiful.
And the way that the woman was looking at them, a weird mix of disgust and sadness
@voilaviolamh Can you just let us enjoy it being gay without trying to force it to be straight? Can you do that?
@@xxsexybabytimexx8303 It was. I feel bad for you actually because you are so afraid of something not being about the heteros for once that you just dismiss any possibility of two characters of the same sex being in love even when that's clearly what's right in front of you.
There are lots of films that had two straight dudes just being bros, this, isn't one.
@@xxsexybabytimexx8303 Maybe you've got a point. But next time, try to make your arguments come across less patronizing, yeah?
Hmmm... I'm suddenly realizing all of the fanfiction I read seems to stem from frustration at queerbaiting...
I love reading gay fanfiction but i'm not gay.. can someone explain this to me?
@@intheclouds4453 Straight women quite widely like consuming gay romance, for example they comprise the vast majority of readers in gay romance. Another example is that in Japan there's a whole genre of manga that is pretty much created by women, for women, but the stories are about gay relationships. It's also how you get people who are fine with reading gay romance, but have dissonance about the existence of actually gay people (they might read tons and tons of gay romance, but then be less than understanding about actually gay people).
Similarly men tend to like lesbian portrayals, which is how you get "lesbian" porn, which is actually porn with two women in it that has been aimed at men.
@@Zorbelth There was an interesting study measuring arousal at various forms of pornography among straight cis men and women (all college students at the time, circa 2007).
What they found is that straight men became aroused at female-male, female-female, and solo-female. In other words, as long as there was a woman on screen, the men were turned on.
But straight women were aroused by all of it. Female-male, female-female, male-male, solo-male, solo-female. All of it.
If you grant that this is a neurological sex difference, it helps to explain phenomena that seem a bit counterintuitive, like the fact that a number of lesbians report enjoying male-male pornography.
Try webtoons, there is a bunch of proper representation. Only humam is one, the augus and other are also available. One of them have zombies in and a basketball team that all have different hbtq representation. Its amazing. This is my opinion, even with this not being my preference in partner.
Honestly I think fanfiction mainly comes from queerbaiting. As a response to queerbaiting I mean. For example, I love Harry Potter. So much. But I'm so tired of its queercoding and queerbaiting (with Sirius Black and Remus Lupin for example). And also, it makes me feel like something's missing, because this saga moves me so much, and means so much to me, but I can't really relate to its straight storylines. That's why I turn to fanfictions. Because I find this missing piece. Because it helps keeping the story alive, while at the same time fulfilling this rightful frustration. I mean, I've been reading a fanfiction about the Marauders (the generation before Harry Potter's one), it has 100+ chapters, it's basically a full book and is so well written, it feels like JK Rowling did it herself. But without the queerbaiting. Sirius and Remus end up together, and there's no 40 lines ambiguous stares. Instead there's kissing and explicit declaration of attraction. I got carried away, but what I mean is fanfiction is a great, and very important, way to propose this so-needed representation.
Never understood the whole ‘no queer people in children’s media’ pov. Do they seriously think queer people sprang, fully grown, out of holes in the ground!?!?
personally i burst out of sea foam in the style of aphrodite
I was born from a cocoa fruit and my mother just took me in
I fell down to earth from the cosmos as a sparkling mass
This is my hole, it was made for me
well that's how steven universe worked.
(note that I am joking)
Mcu will have its first explicitly gay character!
*turns out to he random background character in one scene*
Valkyrie is bi so that's great.
The Black Queen Marches onward to Cooperstown on a bad bet., the thing that pissed me off the most was Bucky and Captain America not ending up together. I knew it was inevitable (pun intended) that they would never actually become S/O’s, but the subtext was quite a lot. If it were a female in place of Bucky, they’d be humping 20 minutes in. Now I don’t really like Captain Marvel, regardless of the actress not having the best reputation, because of the lack of character development. For example, there was a scene at the beginning where she was told to not use her powers for that specific fight. She proceeds to use her powers. Now later on in the movie, you’d think she’d come to the realization that powers aren’t everything, and that she should’ve grown, as a character, and learned from her past mistakes. That not everything can be handed to her on a silver platter, just because she has powers. Yeah she doesn’t do that. There was just no character growth. She was cocky at the beginning, and cocky at the end. And that’s not _that_ big of a problem. A lot of other marvel characters would be considered cocky and are still loved. The thing is, they stop being so arrogant with time (and by time, I mean by the climax of the movie). (see: character development, again)
I’m so sorry I got into a whole damn article about Captain Marvel. It just aggravated me how badly written she was. When with a few tweaks, she could’ve been a phenomenal character. I hadn’t realized I’ve written so much, but I surely wasted my time for something. Back to the point. It was bullshitty how they snubbed Bucky and Steve. I don’t even ship it hard, I thought it was so obvious it didn’t even _need_ shipping. But nah Steve had to go back to Peggy because, well, you tell me.
The mcu already has queer characters there 1st was in Agents of Shield
Like that time that they hyped a lesbian couple on finding dory, but it turned out to only have been shown for a few seconds in the background ;-;
Same energy as onward having a lesbian character say 3 lines
Daniel Radcliffe looking incredibly exhausted every time JK Rowling opens her mouth is me
Exactly it seemed we were both questioning how progressive it was for JK to have the one gay character's great love be extremely tragic.
There was an interview where she was asked something like "are x and y gay?" and she responded with "Dumbledore is gay", as if straight out saying "wtf do u want from me I gave u the gay now leave my other characters alone".
@@Toxihex "I gave u the gay" hahahaha
and after everyone was complaining that dumbeldore is not gay in the fantastic beasts movie... she muted them on twitter. Wow -.-
Yes, he looked like, a am incredible grateful for a career, whatever. And Radcliffe stated he wanted an as many controversal or bizarre movies himself, he would likely like to play a gay character at least once in a movie. Like franco does all the time.
mulan's li shang was bi. he showed romantic interest in mulan while he still believed that she was a male. then his romantic interested in her didnt go away once he found our that she was female. (well i could be alot of things other then bi that arent straight). i dont believe they intended for this but technically they did have an lgbtq character in there. although last i checked they are trying to change it in the live action which sucks.
It's kind of interesting that homosexuality seems to have been considered pretty normal in China in the past. Most Emperors would have male "favorites" in addition to their wives and concubines and the euphemisms used for homosexuality actually referred to famous love stories ("the passion of the cut sleeve" for example, which refers to a story where an emperor was resting in the garden with his male lover who fell asleep against his arm. Since he didn't want to disturb him, he cut off his sleeve so he could get up without moving/waking his partner) … I think what I may be trying to say in my longwinded way is that a blind pig (Disney) may have found an acorn (a comfortably bisexual male in Han China). I seriously doubt they realized that they were doing it, though. And, of course, some people debate whether "it's okay if it's you" actually makes someone bisexual, so he may not qualify anyway. It still would be funny to see the looks on the faces of the executives involved when they realized that they made *two* mistakes (a queer character, AND historical accuracy!!!)
@@Katherine_The_Okay Thank you for the fun fact about china. I knew that they used to be very sexually liberal until Confucianism then Communism and only recently changed from being hyper conservative(sexually). Now although i understand and agree with what your saying in the second half i would suggest changing some of your phrasing in the future as it may cause unneeded friction that makes your point not come across. ( like by calling Disney a blind pig. any hard core Disney fan will dismiss your argument, no matter how many facts and how much evidence you have.) Just a suggestion as i often see beautifully intelligent humans silenced because of their choice of words.
The thing is, the reason he liked her is because she was a girl, dressed as a guy. He didn't know it consciously, but it doesn't make him bi.
@@animefreakshjo That's the opposite of what I'm saying actually. I have a trans fiancee. She's a girl no matter how people view her. So was Mulan. Gender is something you can be attracted to. It was pretty obvious that Ping was not like the other boys, that's why Shang liked "him"
@@animefreakshjo It's also why I could never be fully attracted to feminine guys, even if they were pretty and the same reason a lot of other lesbians like butch women (I personally never have)
Daniel Radcliffe looks sooooo awkward when JK is patting herself on the back for being so 'inclusive'
To be fair to She-ra...it ended up being extremely damned gay
It's been gay since season 1. An openly gay married couple were secondary cast.
@@Stormthorn67 plus they become main plot points in the final season, and the first non binary kids show character
can't we just have a casually gay character?? someone who's just... a character, but like... gay. just a guy having a boyfriend, without it being a big deal??
I agree. I'm making a comic about two girls' friendship and growing up in a cold society, they both have their issues and one of them is lesbian, but that's not one of her problems. Sure, she has to come to terms with it, but that's side plot. The main plot is about her and her childhood friend drifting apart because of a secret. (Which is not her sexuality) And the learning to forgive and move forward.
I'm a bi woman myself, writing mainly for women, so a lot of my characters are women and their family and crushes. So there aren't gay men at the moment. But I don't know if I could realistically represent them. So I'm focusing on my current characters for now.
Kinda weeb-y but Overwatch!! Two heros are casually gay! Tracer, in a holiday comic was seen coming home to her girlfriend where they exchanged gifts and her and her girlfriend kissed at the end, and another character, Soldier:76 recently "came out". From what I've seen he is talking about an Ex-comerade. I love them because they're not stereotypes. Soldier is a very masculine man who has fought wars and has seen some shit. And tracer is this small-framed woman who's bubbly and cute. Mad respect to the Overwatch team for putting out gay characters in such a toxic community
I like that! A side plot, that's nice. And I actually watch b99 :3 so cool that a game has characters like that, especially since almost always it IS a stereotype. I'd love to see more honestly, until it's become a regular thing
Also, NCIS: New Orleans! That female FBI agent they keep trying to turn full NCIS agent is a lesbian and it isn't brought up often! I think her name's Gregorio. She just casually mentions ex trouble like it's no big deal and regualr talk! However, I will admit at this stage with her it MAY seem a little baity and all as she just says her last relationship was a fucking nightmare and brushes it off but as she is now becoming more of a main character, and we all know how shows like that are with turnover, and this is one of the only versions of NCIS (can only watch LA and NO and not the original and not due to the Abby bit but just can't stand the current set of new actors!) that I can see it may happen in a cross over in the original in a Gibbs' style flashback due to all the crossovers they have in their whole universe that I might miss and not start out on the main show! Howerver, it seems her character's still more casual in the dating relm and how they express it as the still casual ain't but another day at the office life BS! Chris' issues with that fake baby-momma were more "love issues" than making her chracter all front and center about it and being truly daily lives is what I'm saying including that she seems so "butch" not just from being a cop but also the strong, macho Italian background coming in through her character (not saying that stereotypically but as the character's family is Italian some can come off as a bit more spunk, agressive and trying to be a bit more mocho and that just generally happens anyway being in an overly dominated "man's man" field like the FBI)! At the moment, I think all of this is good especially with her just casually throwing around "oh thought she was hot" at the same time her friends do it with guys while out and/or talking about the night before would I like to see her with someone ABSOLUTELY! Could I MAYBE see her and City Mouse!?! Might be awkward, but YES! Howerver, like I said as these series' do so much about getting the "real life" bits right I am surprised at how well they did with her and so who knows and so I am saying simply 'cuz I like her as a character and not because she is just the sole les chick (I myself am panromantic, demisexual, and a bit sapiosexual!) that I hope she finally takes the NCIS offer and stays with the show and her life naturally goes to a GF and not just due to fan pressures!
yeah, watch brooklyn nine nine
people who think queer representation in kids media is wrong and inappropriate are pretty much saying that they themselves consider any form of non-hetero relationship to be strictly explicit and sexual. Y'know, it's ok for 12yo characters to kiss and date if they're straight, or for there to be pretty blatant adult jokes kids can pick up on, or for female cartoon characters to be drawn in a pinup style and be heavily sexualized, but god forbid a boy says he has a crush on another boy.
Blame their Christian bibles....
don’t shame someone for being religious. that’s just biased. you’re talking about bible thumpers. not christians. so you basically just insulted all christians
mudkip1o
It’s hard not to shame someone for being religious when pretty much all the prejudiced people also happen to be religious.
overrated book with a horrible fandom
Trashcan with trash
Some of the truest shit I’ve ever heard
Embraces you and kisses you with my dying breath: "you're a good friend-"
Refers to you as my love and my reason for living, the most amazing person i know "but like just platonic, obviously"
@@matilda5753 .....I actually do this with my best friends since I personally identify as aromantic (as I've yet to have romantic feelings & repulsed by the idea of romance for myself) 😅😂 but yes very true for most people! 😂😁
@@violetartist2400 this is also valid
"You cannot die an old maid!" "I have no intention to, chancellor. I shall die a _bachelor_!" Me as an aromantic
Lol me same. Hello fellow one (me, an Orientated (Pan) AroAce).
MOOD
Same here!
lol
YAAAAASSSSSS!
What I don't get is how some people can believe that it's perverse or shocking to show a gay relationship in a casual, respectful way (i.e. hand-holding, a quick kiss, saying couple-y things to each other), but they have no problem with children's movies where hetero characters are passing out sexual innuendos like candy or outright assaulting each other.
A+ video! You broke this down beautifully. Videos like this are really great for helping allies to arm ourselves with information and really understand what we're talking about when arguing the point of representation and its importance.
It’s because they’re completely irrational and just hate gay people.
Exactly!! It’s supposedly weird if there’s no romance/sex but they’re only happy with one variety of it?? And they’re not afraid to amp it up to dangerously unnecessary levels??
The worst bit is how it marginalises every identity or relationship which deviates from being heteroromantic, heterosexual, and cis :(
Y'all here complaining but I'm like: Yo, wasn't Spongebob (one of the most popular cartoon characters) in a same sex marriage with Patrick for like one episode where they raised a clam together? BTW That episode was the funniest shit I've seen in a while.
@@timtam3730 I'm gay, 27, and a huge fan of Spongebob when I was a young kid. I've somehow never once thought about that episode in that context until just now! lol
Throttle Kitty that episode is so funny. I love Patrick just sitting there watching a dude get hit in the head with coconuts 😂💖😂
Also Irene Adler in Sherlock, she’s portrayed as a lesbian who is also very sexual (leaning into the sexualisation of lesbians) and she falls in love with Sherlock but she explicitly says she’s gay. Like she could just be bisexual but also it’s horrible representation. I, as a lesbian, felt so uncomfortable when watching her on screen and that’s not how I should feel
Don't you know? All a lesbian needs is to meet the right man. **headdesk**
it made me v e r y uncomfortable,, like,, no?? oh g o d n O
i watched that episode of sherlock for the first time a few weeks ago and i was cringing in my chair
Sherlock is such a mess when it comes to representation I just- ugh. Don't tell me John and Sherlock wouldn't have been together if one of them was a woman.
@@Mel-mc9mu Because mainstream entertainment is about what people want to watch. Most men don't want to watch two of their favourite heter. osexual/non-sexual/irrelevant sexuality literary characters suddenly turn gay, and neither do most women. Maybe even especially women. Sherlock Holmes' sexuality is not very important.
I was SO happy after this one scene in IZombie where the female truck driver says "can we skip the inspection I have to get home to my wife dude" honestly we're so starved for characters
Its making me think of how us Animal Crossing fans were when NH was hyped lmao
this is why gays think villains are so sexy
You got a point there.
I wish my homies held me they way Wings held each other.
No homo thou
@@Oasismaker no homo? Why not?
Ava Stepanian cause cuddling the homies ain’t gay
Kpop idols have entered the chat
You dont hold your homies in the the wings well you talk about each other's problems!?!?!? You got some weird homies
Queer representation in kids media is actually super super important. I grew up with no exposure to gay people and only learnt about the possibility in my teens where it was portrayed as being weird and wrong. I had such a hard time accepting my own identity and sometimes still do. It took going to uni and actually meeting other gay people who were out and proud and actually happy with loving and supporting friends and families for me to start to come to terms with the fact that I might be gay too.
facts
I didn’t learn that gay people existed until I was 15. I hadn’t even heard the term gay before then, and it was 2015. And then I finally realized why I always felt so different and why I never felt attracted to men. But then, going on the internet to do some research led me to the religious, anti-gay people, so it made me hate myself and try to pray my gay away (hint: it didn’t work lol)
Same. My perception of gay people as a kid and teenager was very negative. Than I met two lesbians and realized gay people were normal people, and people who could be pretty awesome, just like anyone else. It helped a lot, and positive representation in media could have helped a lot sooner.
I grew up in a super conservative family. My mom always spoke harshly of gay/trans people since I was a child so I was indoctrinated to believe it was weird and wrong. Luckily my mom is starting to be more accepting and I'm planning to come out as bi to her soon:)
BRUH SAME 😭 it wasn’t until I started college that I came to terms with it after for years people kept telling me I was gay because I’ve never been in a relationship with anyone but now as an adult I look back and I did have signs that I kinda was gay but was in denial because I didn’t have exposure with men nor women and I came out as bisexual recently so it’s like yeah I’m actually really comfortable and relieved that I can say yeah I’m bi and don’t have to prove it to everyone nor be constantly people wondering my sexuality 😊✨
CATRADORA is CANON they KISSED in season 5 y’all !!!!!!
HELL YEAH!
We need that she ra movie
frick yeah
The universe was saved because Adora was a lesbian lol
I came to comment this 😂
I remember reading book reviews of Rick Riordan's Heroes of Olympus series where people were pissed that it turns out one of the major side characters turns out to be gay. Like, apparently the fact that all these kids were literally the children of ancient greek gods who still pay homage to them if not out right worship them was fine for these Christian parents, but you introduce a gay character now they're clutching their pearls.
Ironically, those reviews were what convinced me to pick up the series and it's pretty awesome. Unlike SOME authors of YT novels Riordan actually make one of the major characters gay and didn't pull his punches. I loved it.
and he gets more diverse in the next two series. kids need to know who they share the world with and parents cant control what they read.
He's active on Twitter and talks about this, too - the characters that have a definite orientation, and the ones he leaves deliberately vague so that kids can see themselves in that character.
He also has a character that is genderfluid (which makes sense in the universe of the story, because the character's dad is Loki, a god who can change his gender) and is un a relationship with another boy who is pansexual
Yes yes yes!!👏👏I love Rick's books and the representation in them😁😁
if you enjoyed that i would recommend his other book series Magnus Chase. in the second book we are introduced to a gender-fluid character named alex who is a major character in the last two books. (spoilers) alex and the main character Magnus get together in the last book. well kinda. with magnus is quite clearly depicted that he has feelings for alex and him and alex share kisses, but alex didn’t want to make it “official” just yet. it is heavily implied alex reciprocates magnus’s feelings though.
I would love to see queerbait scenes re-shot with cis-het characters, as a way to really illustrate the point. Has anyone done that yet?
This actually happens a lot if you think about it. Ever watched a (particularly kids shows and anime) where two characters are obviously into each other, and just awkwardly never act on it for like 9 seasons? Inuyasha is a good example of this. You can litterally find yourself screaming GODAMMIT JUST KISS ALREADY at the screen. I think they do this to stop the show from being "too romantic and girly" on specifically "boys" shows, so it sort of fades out as you get into adult media and we forget about it.... lol
Throttle Kitty lol I love inuyasha I can so relate
Conservatives: “Queer characters shouldn't be in children's media, it'll traumatize kids”
Rebecca Sugar: “I'll show you trauma!” *creates Steven Universe*
@@Hecatonicosachoron There are only a few adult male characters in Steven Universe, but I would still say they show m/m relationships that could be considered gay. The first clear episode was "Future Boy Zoltron" which had the former relationship between a side character and a one-off new character. Their relationship was only implied though and fell more into this videos description of Queer Catching since when the creators were asked afterwards they confirmed that it was a gay relationship and not just a friendship/business relationship. There was also a newer scene in a more recent episode. Bill Dewey and Jamie were alone at the wedding and decided to spend the time dancing together in a stereo-typically gay manner. If you are willing to include gay stereotypes, just about every male character has scenes demonstrating those traits. I think it's fairly impressive that they've managed as many male gay characters as they have in a show that's mostly female.
edit: Also, don't discount the fact that's it's just about the only show I've seen to openly show gender-fluid and non-binary characters in a wholly positive light.
Spoilt Milkyway mlm relationships get a lot more representation in adult media tho as any wlw movie I can think of Is basically an hour and porn and they’re not mainstream either. Also mlm are often more explicitly queer baited,or at least it appears so since and wlw can be lost to just being close friends. I do agree there isn’t enough mlm content in cartoons though and I wish there would be more too
Lesbelian it's not about adult media , it's about general media , example in question : steven universe . There's a bunch of gay kids who also happen to be boys or questioning , it's important to cater to them as well, this other half of the lgbt spectrum needs a beacon of light too in cartoons just as much as gay identifying girls , bc they too suffer until they are old and able to change their situation ,that includes nb kids as well ,bc they're still there just like EVERYONE else in the lgbt spectrum. I wouldn't want a cartoon that only caters to me specifically, that would be boring af , show me what else is going on with someone i can't fully relate with but am willing to understand!
I was exposed to only straight people in my childhood and I am still bi, like that logic is stupid.
Thats part of why making dean, from supernatural who is already written as a bi character as bi would have been a great thing. Thats more than subtext, but he is a guy who is relatable and him questioning that is even part of the show itself. He is also famous. A not sterotypical gay male teenage character in a kids show would be really good. Just some random dude who is also shown as attracted to guys.
And steven universe has shape shifting space rocks in often abusive relationships, who are clearly not always female but gender ambigious. No matter what the author says, some characters can be written as male. It makes in my iew the concept of genderless rocks more interesting. ut then she has clearly not a good grasp opn the concept she wants to show, so who knows.
"When you're slapped you'll take it and like it."
Uhhh is it just me or does that sound like it was lifted directly from a BDSM fanfic?
I'm pretty sure my eyebrows hit orbit when I saw that.
HAWT!
lmfao i was thinking that too
Uh yeahhh. If you haven't seen the movie it's maybe not clear but the lines just before that are *not* subtle either.
Yea... *sips tea* that's -ahem- vanilla
Miles Morales was meant to be bisexual. I REMEMBER seeing it and being soooooooo excited. Only to read every comic and find out we’ve been hoodwinked yet again.
Why yall superheros to be gay
@@deatheye4576 when we have characters portrayed in media, such as superhero comics, that are supposed to represent disenfranchised groups, (x-men being a metaphor for lgbtq+, coming out with powers, being abandoned by your family because of it) its more than a little expected to have that representation be more open and obvious. Plus having healthy representation of someone who doesn't only look like you, but shares the same belief and getting their happy ending (ex the girl get the girl, no bury your gays trope) it does a lot for your self esteem. Its not all superheroes are gay, all protagonists are, just like not all ppl are gay. but not all ppl are straight and that deserves representation too... we just don't get it.
@@hanamarie8882 that doesn't mean make people favorite superheros gau just to please a small group of people
@@deatheye4576 it's not a small group anymore, and the abundance of heterosexual superheroes isn't enough for you? Literally what's wrong with having genuine representation for a group that has virtually none
@@deatheye4576 literally not saying that all superheroes should be gay. I literally said that not all ppl are gay, just like real life. But also in real life not all ppl are straight. And ppl in the queer communities deserve recognition to, especially if themes are going to be used that are so obviously meant to representive or relatable to those in those communities. You cant just write one side and completely neglect another.
Well that clip from Wings was beautiful and damn near made me cry
Kath Flynn there is no straight explanation for that
Kath Flynn me too I felt so silly as it was so brief 😂
I paused the video to watch it. Am now a puddle of "BUT WHHYYYYYY" on the floor. ;_; It's a _very_ funny, and very heart-wrenching film. Deffo recommend.
It was SO SO sweet, omg.
Very sweet and romantic.
Ah yes Wings. Just guys being dudes
#friendship #bromance amiright ? ;)
Gillette be like: boys will be boys will be boys will be boys
What a power couple....
Of dude bros
Hetero life partners.
dudes being guys
You know what kids say when you tell them someone is gay and what that means? They say, “Okay.” Prejudice, bigotry, racism...these a learned behaviors. Kids truly don’t care if a couple is same-sex, interracial, or interspecies (thank you sci-fi). Children respond positively to healthy, loving relationships, in whatever form they take.
exactly! when my mom first told me she was going to date my future step-mom, i was confused cause i had never seen a gay couple before, and was used to watching exclusively hetero movies. it’s not like it took me a while to get it through my skull either, i was fine with her even when i was really young and just treated her like a second mom.
@@boom_powy when I was about 9 my parents got divorced and my mom came out as lesbian. I cried when she told me because I had been taught it was a bad thing. I didn’t even know why I was crying.
Kids brain haven’t developed.
I'm so used to being queerbaited that whenever the gay ship couple turns out to be canon i get so shocked like I'm in a fever dream
OMG same lolol
this fr
i knew the teen wolf queerbaiting was bad just from passing but holy SHIT that one clip made me realize just how awful it really was, glad i never got into it.
It was a long abusive relationship.
"Hey, we're on a ship!" I died
Honestly same
Past friends have really liked it and told me there's representation and all I can think of is how bad that ad was
And this is why fan fiction is so popular, because it’s the only real way for us to get the representation we need in major films and shows. (Like Marvel)
ikrrr
That's exactly why I consume so much fanwork. If the creators of the canon media aren't going to act on something that is incredibly important and very obviously believable, I'll just make it happen myself.
Cuppiecake Zombie preach 🖖🏽
It's definitely a huge part of why fanfiction and fanwork are so popular, but it's also sometimes part of the reason why fanfic and fanwork can have a bad reputation as being "nothing but gay porn" among some people who don't know better. I remember a couple years ago, I was writing a slashfic (between two "word-of-god" bisexual male characters who both actors swore had been involved in the past) and this girl I barely knew jumped down my throat because, by daring to write about two men, I was "excluding" women and therefore being antifeminist. Her ensuing rant against fanfic was a sight to behold, lol. Then when I went on my LiveJournal and wrote a brief defense of slash fiction (not once mentioning her or her ideas), she had the gall to act hurt, offended, and betrayed that I'd "gone behind her back like that". Because, you know, when you're a supporter of all things straight, your behavior is always right and reasonable. When you start getting into icky queer territory, clearly you're a terrible person with compromised judgment.
It makes me so angry, though, that some people assume that all fanfic involving queer characters is just some porno fantasy forcing these "uncharacteristic" roles and behaviors onto established characters. Instead of what it actually does, which is taking things that have already been established about the characters and extrapolating a story from those things (you know, just like well-written het fic).
Yeah, plus reason why there are so many gay ships... It's the only goddamn representation we can get ... And it's made up!!
I get annoyed when people say they can't put a gay couple in children's media but then they go and have a hetro relationship. They're the same thing.
Well, that She-Ra example did not last long, lol!
It may not have been the best choice to begin with, as it was clear early on that heteronormativity simply doesn't exist on the show. The very episode that clip was taken from had multiple same-sex couples in the background, including Noelle Stevenson and her wife.
@@Blazingstoke Personally, I would have used Steven Universe as an example there. They have done amazing stuff and I haven't seen the last few seasons yet. However, they have the loophole that they are gems and not humans, which "couches it" for conservative audiences.
One thing that I think the movie of Jane Eyre completely misses is that Jane chose to marry Mr Rochester, not the other way around. In the novel Jane literally says, “Reader, I married him.” And it’s such an impactful line because it is not “we married” or “he married me”- it’s I married HIM. Jane chose to return to Rochester and marry him on her own will
But the point is, she's a *character* - she didn't decide to do anything. Bronte decided what she would do - and there is a reason for the decision she imposed on Jane's story.
I get her though. Rochester was pretty cool. He seemed like one of the only reasonable people in the story, had a hilarious sense of humour and was honestly the most relatable person I've ever seen in a piece of literature from Bronte's era.
Erin A. YESSS
I think she just had the hots for him.
Even feminists can sometimes fall for ... uhm ... somewhat dominant men.
I've once read a text in which it was pointed out that they got married only after Jane has gotten her inheritance (and therefor financial independence) and Mr. Rochester has been brought to his knees in a way. Which makes them more on equal footing.
That's an interesting thought.
@@HeyRowanEllis I think the reason for writing the story in that way is her own feelings.
She grew up with a domineering father and unfortunately our parents inform our understanding of how a man or a woman "is". That's why people often fall or partners who remind them of the parent of the respective sex.
Even as grown-ups we can often not get rid of these feelings, even if our brain says that maybe they are a little bit toxic.
That Wings (1927) scene is painfully beautiful...I love it.
Roddie Irison I agree! I’ve never seen this film before but the music in that scene just makes it so perfect. I’ll definitely have to watch it
I smell Homestuck
@@HidingMonkeyCatNinja Fun Fact: pretty sure the music is an instrumental track version of Celine Dion's "Then You Look At Me" which is.....I mean......that's one romantic song choice for a scene between two "friends". :) Beautiful song and scene, for sure!
@@SEReid-rz5bm pretty sure celine dion wasn't even born yet in 1927
@@pfluftlluftl8843 Ha! Very true. :) "Wings" is a silent film, so it doesn't have an official score from 1927. When shown in cinemas a pianist or some other instrumentalist would have played music along with the movie. I'm guessing the music we're hearing in that clip was added much, much later to a re-release for home video or DVD. But I don't know that for sure, I'm just guessing. :)
That She-Ra clip aged like fine wine
As someone who is watching this nearly a year and a half later, I will say that She-ra does have an explicit lesbian kiss between major characters by the end of season 5.
Yeah I watched the whole series and really enjoyed it, but it’s still a little frustrating because that kiss was dangled in front of the audience for the whole series in a will-they-won’t-they fashion. On another note, as a non-binary person, I found Double Trouble to be incredibly problematic as nb representation. The character was consistently portrayed as sneaky, manipulative, selfish, and untrustworthy and didn’t have a redemption arc like so many of the antagonists in that show did. That sort of rep really does more harm than good for trans* people.
@@defygravityXD also (this is what people who have watched have told me. I have not seen s5 yet. I'm almost at the end of s4. I know none of this for certain) their (Catra and Adora's) relationship was really bad. Like, really bad. Throughout the entire show, they had a horrible relationship, in which Adora was, at first, constantly trying to help her old friend, and Catra had none of it. She really and truly attempted to kill Adora, her best friend since childhood. I see, so far, potential for Scorpia and Catra to have something, but Catra would have to get her shit together first. She's got a lot of shit going on in her head, and she's handling it horribly. If she were to receive a proper redemption arc, this would be more okay, but (this is the part I've only been told) she didn't. She was bad one minute, a hero the next, and then she and Adora kiss and it's all better. That's not how it works. That's not a healthy relationship, and while it's great that She-Ra is so open with queer people, this wasn't the way to handle the 'most important' queer relationship in the entire show.
Ava Stepanian Yeah I think everything you said is accurate. It would have been nice to have a solid queer relationship present for the duration of the series. We get a taste of that with Bow’s dads, but they came across more as fluff. Overall, the end of the series is very rushed. The writers tried to tie up loose ends very quickly and ended up short-changing most of the characters.
@@defygravityXD I know these comments are already 2 months old but I personally have to say (as an nb person) that I quite enjoyed Double Trouble as a character. This might be because I'm starved for representation or just because I like sneaky characters. I think the problem is that we don't have enough nb characters to have diversity in them, so when we see a nb character we want them to be everything at once. But this is just my opinion of course.
Btw unfortunately this youtube channel is connected to my work email (don't ask me why...) so I have to use my dead name (I go by Yuki) and an picture that looks very cis.
@@LisaAnne1998 ooh yeah Double Trouble was amazing! I wish we'd gotten more of them in s5 bc they would have made it perfect
Valkarie losing a lover/spouse in the charge against Hela would have given her character more justification for abandoning her duty. That could have pushed the film into orbit.
Which is what someone, somewhere, was trying to accomplish. But it got shut down. Tessa Thompson is still fervent that the character that she is playing is bisexual, and remains frustrated.
Actually I believe it was confirmed I’m not 100% sure so don’t quote me on it but I believe in the scene where hela is killing the valkyries(the army)and the one that saves Valkyrie(the person) was her girlfriend
I think Valkarie seeing everyone die except for her as well as someone offering their life to save hers is justification enough for her to leave her duty. She saw her friends and basically family die and she couldn't do anything to save them so instead she tries to forget about it
daniel Radcliffe's face during the jk rowling interview XD
lmao he looked so bewildered
He looked kinda high 😂😂
poor him
Daniel Radcliffe's face during his life
He's basically the HP fandom every time she opens her mouth lol
There is one Disney channel character on the children's show Andi Mack named Cyrus who is a gay teen. He has come out to a couple of his friends, and while yes at first he never said the words "I'm gay" he was a blatantly gay character. But very recently, like literally a couple days ago, he became the first Disney channel character to actually say "I'm gay" and the response from his friend was positive. In fact the response from every one of his friends he has come out to has been positive. His sexuality is not portrayed in a negative manner at all which is fantastic.
He said he likes boys,he never said the actual words
The She-Ra reboot is great it has explicitly gay and lesbian couples and a non-binary character it's fantastic to get representation in a show that's targeted towards younger audiences
Especially in a universe where there's no homophobia, I'm so glad to see gay characters that don't have to deal with that, escapism is amazing ^_^
Yes I was kinda confused that She-Rah was used as an example in this...
I wish I could be Double Trouble so badly!
@@inuchan74 I imagine it was made before the final season
wings was??? beautiful?? i may have simply,, cried?
It was widely successful and highly acclaimed too. It won the first ever Oscar for best picture.
I remember a bad case of queerbaiting, exactly like that Teen Wolf promo, for Pitch Perfect 3. In a promo for the movie, Anna Kendrick and Brittany Snow (Becca and Chloe) looked at each other and literally leaned in to kiss each other, but then they stopped, turned to the audience, and basically said, "If you want to see more, go see the movie!". So my friend and I (both v gay) went to see Pitch Perfect 3 together because we were so excited at the possibility of Bechloe getting together, or even just kissing in the film, but then in the end we were disappointed (but not surprised!!). Like... there were NO hints in the movie. Nothing between them. It was a total scam. Honestly, how do people do that to others?? Sometimes it's just so... tiring. Being let down all the time is exhausting.
yeah, it reminds of Sherlock promo for s4, with the editing implying that when Sherlock said I love you it was directed at John which to nobody's surprise wasn't the case in the actual material ... *still angry about it though*
I don't remember where i saw it but it was actually confirmed that Brittany and Anna shot a kiss scene together because they practically begged for it but it ended up being taken out of the final cut anyway
@@paigesmith3690 I saw that I think it was on their Twitter or in an interview or something.
@@Vexarax I agree that it's sad that we every interaction between two people of the same gender is so analysed, but honestly out of every example that gets brought up as something that could be 'more', none of them ever do.
Close friendships are important, but potentially gay dynamics are outright ignored in every situation.
@@Vexarax Thank you for this! I had read the Lord of the Rings trilogy probably ten times before the movies were ever conceived of and I gagged when I saw how people were deciding to place a romantic explanation on their interactions. In other cultures today for example, there are men who hold hands when they are out and no one questions their sexuality (of course, that hasn't removed patriarchal dominance in the slightest). Why is it so hard to believe in the west that our culture of toxic masculinity wasn't always this way? I wish I knew when LGBTQ+ moved from simply secret aberration not openly tolerated (which is terrifying enough) changed to outright fear of? All sexual identities have always existed...when did fear of "infection" start coming into play and who started it? I would love to know as it has such a strong hold on still so many.
This is why we read Rick Riordan, kids.
Me: Watches 10+ mins of the vid
Rowan: Welcome to Part One!
Me: surprisedpikachuface
GreatestEverGuy same
Me toooooo omg
Commenting for the algorithm because this is a masterpiece and everyone should see it
haha. so great to see you typing this, i just came to the comment section for the exact same reason, now i fell less weird. thx! :D
Well, I'm guessing it worked because youtube slipped this into my recommended section despite it being pretty different from the movie breakdowns I normally watch. Glad I decided to give it a shot tho, definitely subscribing
It worked!
Same here! This video most definitely deserves to be seen.
Your efforts have worked thank you
why did that short scene from wings actually make me cry though
In supergirl: Kara and Lena would already be married if one of them was a man
destiel as the background picture of queerbaiting is just * chefs kiss * perfect
Bro how you feel after the canon incident
I can't find reliable sources, but judging by Taika Waititi's past works and general personality, the rumours are that he tried to keep the Valkyrie being bi in Ragnorok as long as possible but the studio cracked down on it. I would've loved that representation cause I admire Tessa Thompson and Taika so much and love THor
Now Marvel had lesbians (in Deadpool 2) so hopefully other movies will give us more representation- but yeah, that censorship in Thor Ragnarok sucks
Tina #_# I think that’s because it was R-rated,and for some reason people think anything queer is inappropriate for kids.
This topic is fascinating to me because I study Chinese, and in a lot of Chinese films, queer-coding is used HEAVILY as a joke. As well in children’s film, it’s used to portray more villainous characters, or portray something considered “inappropriate,” so it’s really amazing to learn this history behind it.
Indeed, yeah.
omg the way that catradora is canon now....peridot
periodt* haha clod
YALL NEED TO WATCH TORCHWOOD ITS A DOCTOR WHO ADULT SPIN OFF WITH A BUNCH OF BISEXUALS RUNNING AROUND CARDIF CATCHING ALIENS ITS AMAZING
EDIT: THAT IS HOW THE MAKERS DESCRIBED IT. ITS SO GOOD
Anonymous Gay oh god i forgot about that it is amazing
I fking love your profile picture, and name!
Love that show!! (That scene where Gwen was kissed by a girl even though she had a boyfriend, then jack was like “you people and your labels” or smth like that XD)
Torchwood is the best
Rowling encapsulates the whole point of this video in one clip: A "worldly" audience is expected to search for any shred of gay subtext (and apparently be grateful for it), while a dear sweet innocent 9yo can be spared the horror..
Not sure it's "spared the horror", but just means: will not pick up on it, would just be people to them.
Edit: I should add, I've not read the books, so no idea how it's represented.
yea, you completely missed the point..
@@girliboi Just saying it might not have been her intend to "spare the sweet and innocent" as you seemed to imply (my interpretation). She might just mean: they will not pick up on it. Please explain what else you meant if I'm mistaken.
@@autohmae honestly pretty much. We dont really have a clear insight until the seventh book. The seventh book goes more into depth about dumbledore's life. As someone who read harry potter from age 7 to 13, as a kid it went over my head. Until i was then a little older and got to the seventh book. And then i started to realize more little things in the books like in the first book where he find harry with the mirror of erised and he tells harry he sees a pair of socks but he actually sees grindelwald.
@@Dany_lop Thank you for explaining !
As far as gay characters in kid's media, I don't see it as any more or less perverse than including obviously straight characters. We don't really need to be talking about sexuality so much in kid's media. However, there is always at least a straight couple or some kind of hint that the boy and girl like each other. So I don't really see how it would be any different or why it should be controversial to include queer characters in the same way. You don't need to show them in the bedroom, you wouldn't show a straight couple in that situation in a kid's show, but in the same context of a couple in love or something like that, how can people still object to that in 2019? Really, it should have been totally acceptable a long time ago.
The Neon Chimp Channel I agree. I didn’t even care about boys till I was in high school. Young kids don’t need to worry about their sexuality at that young an age anyway.
oh wow that one silent film scene made me cry??
The Stiles one actually makes me uncomfortable... It was crap like this that is making me starting to write a gay romance novel without the dramatic acts of affection, ridiculous stereotypes, or anything you typically see and gay specific stories bar gay characters.
I want to see a show with a real gay main character without that being the whole focus of their character
This queercatching is soooo frustrating. It's like we're being gaslit every time a big movie comes out
Agreed. At least queerbaiting has a bit of that "will they, won't they?" intrigue to it. With queercatching, I just feel like the entertainment industry thinks that I'm stupid.
@@danielj.nickolas17 nuh, there's really no intrigue. They won't. It's not the same as any developing relationship between characters where you don't know what happens next. A few teasing scenes, in-universe jokes and vague comments from the creators and you know THIS is getting nowhere. Plus, there's often a "real" romantic plotline for one or both characters involved. And it gets pushed more and more "in your face" as the baiting progresses.
I haven't thought about it in these terms before, but it is gaslight-y. With queerbaiting they show you all of this and then laugh (or get angry) at you for "imagining something that isn't there". With queercatching it's the oposite and "it's there, don't you see?".
Me, after learning what queercoding is: "Holy shit, they do this in anime ALL THE TIME!"
we should assume Japanese story telling media tropes are the same for the American ones. Anime and Japanese videogames. Ghrahim is a big offender
That's because anime tends to be quite progressive whereas Japan itself is very conservative. As a result when a anime wants to have queer characters but also be taken seriously they have to use coding to prevent getting adult ratings. Over the years they have got extremely good at it (coding that is the the quality of LGBT characters and themes fluctuate wildly from anime to anime.)
yeah. they also fetishize gay people. mainly gay men.
@@gh02tdu2t Japan fetishize everything, just saying...
Yep, that's basically the whole embodiment of Ouran Highschool Host Club.
the anime "nana" shows two straight girls showing romantic feelings towards each other but they end up with pathetic guys. It's such a weird concept how they wouldn't accept that they probably had normal interest in each other? pretty weird.
Two men who’s faces are only a finger length apart, stroking each other’s face and hair, even kisses.
“No, that’s just friends!”
5:41, I've never seen the film Wings, but man, that scene contained one of the sweetest, most tender interactions I have ever seen in my entire life and my life is enriched for it.
Did J.K. Rowling literally just say "It's perfect that Dumbledore's one experience with love was so tragic!!" Like...cool. Representation. Can't have a happy gay character, nooooo it has to be tragic... --____--
That whole commentary was so cringey
I immediately thought of Klaus from the umbrella academy but at least the makers and writers are respectful of it and make being gay not sound like some fanciful thing
Oh cool! So the only gay character's romance lead him into evil, so he decided to be celibate so he could be good. Thanks J.K.! The representation that I always wanted. 🙃
We finally got an explicitly gay (or bisexual) character in The Umbrella Academy, but it's still not mainstream enough to make any sort of difference in the film industry
That is definitely NOT the most mainstream example of bi/gay characters in modern media
@@fruitcake6372 I mean... I know haha I was just highlighting one of my favorite LGBTQ+ characters in a semi-mainstream show...
Wilting Wallflower fair, I’m just saying, there’s a LOT of mainstream representation nowadays. It just tends to fall into ruts of only gay, lesbian or bi characters and they can’t actually kiss on screen and FOR GODS SAKE THEY CANT BE BUTCH and etc etc. I didn’t mean to be rude or anything just saying we have made considerable progress in terms of at least the amount of representation
Y'all here complaining but I'm like: Yo, wasn't Spongebob (one of the most popular cartoon characters) in a same sex marriage with Patrick for like one episode where they raised a clam together? I never really noticed because they episode was way too funny.
Tim Tam, he also cross dresses casually in that episode and plays the role of a wife.
When I scroll through the list of directors that you're talking about in April 2020, I find 2 female directors, Kathryn Bigelow and Sofia Coppola. One is the ex-wife of a much more famous male director and the other is the daughter of a much more famous male film director. And on top of that 2/50 is a ridiculously low number.
Pre-internet we had to walk 15miles in the snow to find queer content.
Oh, you remember the days of zines? :D
uphill both ways
with a jacket so worn down a gust of wind a sniff too strong it would get ripped and blown away too
no lie lol this is exactly how I discovered the original manga of CardCaptors, I lived at the top of a nearly vertical hill haha so up & down (even in snow) to the library in town tho it was 2 miles each way.. 😂 I then got obsessed with Tomoyo's crush on Sakura, well technically so many queer crushes in that series but yeah, lol.. ♡
I had to fight Sabre Toothed Tigers and Dire Wolves Too!
A crazy thing that happened was my country banned Beauty and the Beast 2017 after it was announced that it was going to have a gay character and considering how not a big deal it ended up being, I thought it was all pretty dumb. Like, it was actually embarrassing and it made me wish I could move to a different country.
And that scene in Wings was beautiful.
"Chance the gender of one of them. So that you have a cis man and a cis woman. Would it be realistic for these two together?"
The way a lot of films are writtem it's realistic for literally every male-female couple to happen as soon as one borrowed a fucking pencil or something from the other
I don't want 'queer characters,' I want characters that are queer. I want the character to:
- not be the villain for once
-start off not because their ex cheated and is like "ugh fuck men Imma be a lesbian" but because gay
-NOT FUCKING DIE AT THE END
-Not randomly fall for the opposite gender even though they are obviously not into that person
- Not fit the fairy/butch stereotype. Literally just give me a big burly man who happens to be bisexual. Or give me a femme girl who is a lesbian.
-don't imply the gay, show the gay
Oh and bonus points for scriptwriters and directors to put the following in the outro:
-the countries that won't show their queer film
-mentions of what a VPN is
-where to donate to queer charities.
An example of queer representation for kids could be Andi Mack, a kids show in Disney, where one of the main characters is gay. It hasn’t been said explicitly but it shows a guy having a crush on other guy and it still has a lot of time to explore what that means and it never shows it in a negative way.
He actually did explicitly call himself gay later on when coming out to his former crush-turned-friend.
Connie G yeah, it's a pretty good with representation for all things last I checked , once you get past the typical bad Disney channel tropes
Actually Cyrus really said "I'm gay" on the show
Oh pleeeeez. Is everyone forgetting that Spongebob and Patrick were in a relationship for like one episode where they raised a clam together?
Also in the finale its shown that Cyrus and TJ both liked eachother
I think Wings is my new favourite thing, that was beautiful, though it blows my mind that it's still a struggle to show anything near that romantic in 2019.
I know. I actually thought I was gonna cry watching it.
The picture: was a girls picture. Have you seen the WHOLE movie?
Marvel..... tried. And failed horribly. I’m looking at you, Snowflake and Safespace 🤢
Ms marvel has an amazing gay character! A side character. With no powers. I love that book but Zoe was underserved.
Just stan dc comics and cry about tim and kon not being together even though writers want them together 😔
@@antidave or cass and steph
I still can't believe they thought those names were good ideas
Snowflake and safespace is a good horrible combination of names and they should reconsider it all
Have you ever watched Dreamworks's "The Road to El Dorado"? I would argue that the protagonists are super queercoded.
everyone in that movie is a chaotic bisexual
I love that
I agree!
It was beautiful!
I actually thought that the protagonists may be bi.
@@iknowthatyouregayfireflies9992 yep, that's why they said queercoded.
I see them as bi and polyam
That wings scene is one of the gayest things I've ever seen. Bold! Good for them.
I think we should try getting the word Queercatching to Jim Sterling since he came up with Hetconned in regards to a DLC released for Assassin's Creed Odyssey, I think he can help get the word to become more familiar.
Basically in AC Odyssey the developers at Ubisoft said you can play as exclusively gay or ace as you want, you don't have to do anything in the game you won't be comfortable doing. In the game you have choices in how you want to affect quests and characters and it was a hit with queer audience, you'll find no shortage of women talking about the main female lead Kassandra, showing love for her and the male players of the community for her brother Alexios (you can choose which one you want to play as). But in the DLC (downloadable content) you're forced to be in a straight relationship and no matter how many times you choose to say you didn't like the forced love interest or how just want to keep on your adventure your character will still fall in love and produce a baby.
People at Ubisoft have since apologized and so far have changed the trophy name you get for playing it which was called "growing up" (seriously how did none of them realize that was gonna be problematic?) say they "missed the mark". and promise the ending of the DLC will let you break up with the forced Love interest or whatever.
But for many people the damage is already done and that promise isn't good enough cause it's not like they're going to change the rest of it so you don't fall in love.
So while there was a lot of content before where you can be as gay as you wanted to play, over 50+ hours worth, then came paid content where the developers went back on their word, a word they championed and touted themselves in interviews.
Thus "Hetconned".
LGBTQ fans are now cautious/upset with Ubisoft.
oo this is super interesting! I'm not a big games person, but loving the "hetconning" term!
Wtf! I was so excited for queer storylines to have become an option in video games!!!! Ridiculous.
Rowan Ellis+ it's hard to say, how queer representation fairs in video games compared to other media, but... It could be worse, if a gamer doesn't like visual novels or independent games it could be better.
but sometime in the future there's going to be a couple of high profile studios, making very high profile games, one of them is a sequel to a very successful and loved game called the Last of Us, where the sequel will have a gay protagonist who was established as such before in a DLC of the first game as a young girl like almost a teenager I think, now in The Last of Us Part II she's older and is shown with her love interest in a trailer no subtext, no room for denial.
Warning if you look it up its also violent.
Fair warning: long meandering video game thoughts ahead! lol
This puts me in mind of the first Mass Effect game where they began animation for a romance scene between two male characters, only to have the model for the default male version of the character's look complain about it (I think?) and them go back through the game and remove it, and leave it as forced-hetero-or-nothing instead. Female players could hook up with an alien race with "no gender" if they wished (but curiously entirely female-coded looks) in order to kinda-sorta-mimic gayness (but not-narratively-really). But likewise had no option with an actual specified same gender. Eh, loved those games (all three of them - no, shh, there were only three of them) but so many problems in a few areas like that. As well as curiously many alien races who were stated as having two genders but you only ever happened to come across members of in one gender (one or two with cultural excuses stated such as a heavily sexist home-planetary government or culture, but definitely still a lot of missing reasoning). So weird.
And the worst thing is it went through to the second game and even the third. In the second game (oh and, in these games relationship having was kinda a decently big thing) there was still no option to properly date someone matching a gender you could choose for your character - the only option being a quick fling only available after the game's completion, so rather narratively jarring in terms of impact on the story, with a "would sleep with anything" type (including an uncoverable suggestion that she contracted and spread a virus you could only get from doglike animals). Or... a quick mid-adventure fling with one of the blue space babes that totes aren't female even though they look ultra-specifically designed to look that way (that one actually killing you and resulting in a game over screen). Oh and only if you're playing as female... playing as male? No options with anyone else resembling a male. All the deep or serious options? They'll be locked behind whichever gender you didn't pick, and you can't select the others. Even with one character explicitly confirmed as bisexual (now that was damned annoying, going through all that just to get a throwaway "btw not into chicks right now" line).
When... they were originally just going to be evenhanded about it all in the first game. And if they had been, probably would've kept being into the next one!
And even after all that in the third game when you FINALLY could be properly gay in a meaningful actual way, people with bi-blindness were complaining that you shouldn't be allowed to have a particular specific combination because the character it was with "wasn't gay in the previous games" so it "didn't make sense". It didn't affect me as much as I never did a play-through as the male option, but I read all the possibilities afterwards and can only imagine how frustrating a tease that would've been. Oh and of course that relationship couldn't narratively mean as much (in a game series where you imported your character and their choices from the end of one game into the beginning of the next) since you still didn't even have the option to have been exploring it in a previous game.
And all apparently because some div whose likeness they used for the cover art and default character setting was like "eww gay" once. Oh and bonus, them not even considering it worth getting a default likeness model for the female default. Really confusing set of priorities, definitely some sexism in there. Such a deep world they made with it too, so a right shame it has all these issues with it when it really didn't need to.
A hell of a lot of video games force heterosexuality into characters otherwise not forced that way. Fable 2 with its "we live in a world with actual magic potions but no gay parents" and its... trans potion that'd give you randomly occurring verbal abuse from NPCs forever after you drank it (and overwrite all your saves in the process), and its... ugh, the worst one, that mission where you help a ghost trick someone into marriage, involving not only forced heterosexuality but also forced matrimony (and if you're already married at that point - forced divorce!). There are no good characters in that, nor any good outcomes! What a mess! A game so mixed up in queer representation at the same time as absolute tonal whiplash all over the place, and weird nonsensical restrictions to stuff it was otherwise comparatively forward-thinking about. Mad stuff.
Hell a lot of gaming is still very much on square one. It's STILL relatively unusual to get even so much as a non-over-sexualized female protagonist. Even something just that simple! Oh and chances are the ones you find are young, white and a pretty singular body size and shape.
Actually one of the games I had the most fun with was Saints Row 2. That one just didn't give a damn. They had your female character behave exactly the same as your male character behaves, toward exactly the same other characters. That's how you do it! Hell, they didn't even force you to pick a binary - it was a sliding scale of body morphing, AND a completely seperate voice selection not tied to it, and none of it affected how anyone in the plot treated you whatsoever. Except... I then played Saints Row 4, and while it retained most of that, it actually went backwards in terms of gender selection and forced you now to pick between an absolute gender binary. And I just remember thinking... who deliberately spent time going in and being paid to change that? That was so enlightened before! And now it's backwards-thinking for some reason? No seriously, someone got paid to go in and put a limit on that for no reason...
(not that the way characters behave in those games in the first place wasn't riddled with gross stereotypes of all varieties, but I just loved the way they they didn't care what YOU wanted your character to be, within their pre-written linear story)
Oh and don't get me started on the WWE wrestling games. Christ in a space suit, if they don't get more and more sexist with each and every release (and I'm not even talking about the content echoing the actual WWE's often-fucking-awful televisual portrayal standards [especially historically], but just the game system and rules itself!). Women aren't even allowed in the story mode, and aren't even allowed to be heavy. Which might not matter that much if it didn't also actually limit the attributes you could give them as well as how they move about and counter things in the actual matches themselves? Oh and men can't be short either. Not that I make any men in them any more, ever since they introduced the restriction that you couldn't put men vs women any more... and their last game that had all these restrictions in? Heavily advertized in association with an equality push they've had going on recently. Yeah... no it doesn't add up. Ugh I hate them. Kinda addicted since I'm a trainee myself and I've always loved pro wrestling in general. But for once didn't purchase the last entry. Felt too much of an insult to bear. Probably should've stopped buying them a lot earlier. Someone once said the way I talk about those games mimics an abusive relationship. That's... yeah, that was a thinking point.
Still I guess a lot of video games (and increasingly overtly and dispicably these days) mimic gambling addiction mechanisms, and so... well there's already a certain degree of in-built dodgyness that comes with the territory I guess. If you're hooked on something you tend to be more forgiving toward it than you ought to. And I have been with those games, absolutely. Also as a traditionally (and still very much currently) looked-down-upon medium (being less historic than the others), standards though they absolutely can emerge also absolutely aren't seen as a priority to give a damn about by as many people. Which is sad too. Echoes of that in employment practices, definitely. And echoes across to pro wrestling too, also the ugly duckling in terms of sporting endeavour... also looked down upon, also left in the dust when it comes to people thinking it important to see good standards enforced across the board. Not being taken seriously is a curse, and can drag along with it a bevy of old baggage trying to cling to whatever underside it can find amidst an increasingly-aware but only painfully gradually increasingly-caring public. Maybe that's why the combination of the two things is something I get so damn attached to?
And yeah I know, if I only gamed on PCs instead of consoles, I could have my pick of what I wanted and mod it all to my heart's content. But we can't all be rich, aye.
@JohnnyTheWolf It's not just Jack who is stated to be bisexual, but can only be romanced by male shep, but also Tali. While with her it isn't specifically stated, it goes all up to the point of her suggesting to "link suits" which is more or less a mating ritual, but as Female Shepard you're locked out of the option to pursue. Oh well...Mass Effect 3 was the turning point for Bioware in that regard where they felt confident enough to put at least one option in for each character.
Then there is SWTOR which in the Basegame has quite a few straight romance options. And as a female Jedi Knight you can become "sisters" with a cute Twi'lek. They eventually included queer romances in expansions...from what I've heard even with your companions in the latest one? I don't know I'm not that far.
And then came along Inquisition which to this date I believe is still the height of LGBTQ+ representation in blockbuster gaming, I guess. Characters have actual sexualities and are not "player-sexual" and can reject the player if things don't match up. Oh and let's not forget Krem, a fan favorite and pretty decent representation of a trans character not just in gaming but pretty much all visual mainstream media, sadly not romanceable. Also fun: In the Trespasser DLC you can marry your romance from the main game.
Mass Effect Andromeda had representation but was otherwise just...sad and even sad in it's representation.
Now Anthem on the other hand doesn't feature romance at all...which is like what the hell Bioware? I need that gay shit, that's the one thing I could rely on as queer gamer from you. And now you completely dropped the ball (Ubisoft picked that up and ran with it until they fucked it up as well with the aforementioned disaster).
At least Marvel is (probably) making it up with Thor: Love and Thunder. They straight up said that Valkarie is going to be looking for her queen so if that's not what we get I'll be upset. Love is litterally in the title! They cant mess this up
I'd love more representation for us aces specifically. As it is we're practically unicorns.
As a greyace person (I'm not used to saying that lol) I absolutely feel that. The only "ace" characters I've seen haven't been confirmed ace and are treated like complete aliens.
There is bojack horseman. That’s it
ya I agree. We don’t get represented a lot
@@rowaneditspeppa3361 There's also Spongebob if that counts but it's more a technically ace character than actually being ace.
I will forever believe that Katniss Everdeen was aro/ace. Ain't no way she actually liked Gale or Peeta in that way. If i remember correctly she chose Peeta cause it was like the most logical reason for her or something like that. Like it just "made sense" cause he understood her pain and PTSD more than Gale did
oof, what happened with shiro in voltron is textbook queercatching. they announced he was gay (seven seasons in -_-) and that we would meet his old boyfriend. we see them argue with no intimacy in a flashback and then he dies without shiro knowing until later. then, after seeing how angry fans were, they stuck on a wedding + kiss scene to a character that is UNNAMED UNLESS YOU WATCH WITH SUBTITLES. if we hadnt have been told he was gay everyone wouldve thought theyd been friends, and the wedding is so last minute and clearly only for damage control and it feels cheap and i dont want it
oh my LORD I cannot believe youtube actually recommended me a good feminist video with intersectionality??? feminism and LGBTQIA stuff is never recommended to me and I can never really find anything very intersectional on here and then HERE YOU ARE!! FINALLY this is what I wanna see thank you omg
a video or a -good- video?
kaiyodei it’s good
Thank you for sharing this. I write upper middle grade/young adult fiction, and I want to represent the LGBT community in the best possible way. This information is incredibly helpful.
When I was a young gay kid I used to kiss my friend and didn't realise I was gay 8 years later. So uhh when they say it's not kid friendly I just say hey I am a gay teenager who was a gay kid.
Also wanted to add that using only coded/hinted representation leaves out entire groups of the LGBTQ+ spectrum who may not be immediately visible. I mean, if we can't even get the most basic representation for gay and lesbian individuals, how long is it going to take to reach accurate representation for genderqueer or gender fluid individuals? Bisexual people in relationships with people who don't fall into dichotomous gender norms? Not just asexual characters, but aromantic as well? Just a lot of work we have to do as humans to get to a good place.
i also had to think about Deadpool. Isn't it sad that it needs a bloody sexual movie to portray a healthy happy same sex couple. Because that's (even when they are not being portrayed perverse or bloody) is where they belong (according to the studios?!
Don't get me wrong i know that Ryan Reynolds realized he has the opportunity to do it because in the eyes of the studios it is an adult movie and he can put what ever he wants in there, and it is great that he choose a happy same sex couple who could even say the word "Girlfriend." But it is really sad and makes me angry that studios will only allow in in that shows.
While a movie like Black Panther is allowed to talk about rasism but gets it lesbian characters muted and written out of the show because we can not see taht in a movie about superheros. Kids should watch movies were people kill eachother, not happy lgbt characters, we do not want to ruin our kids. Better let them watch voilence.
I think Black Panther creators didn't have the balls to do it, because they were largely targeting African Americans, who are often huge homophobes and bigots and would focus on the perceived negative more than empowering pro black message.
@@ocandro Being black & gay.... i can sadly say this was probably the case. Also, disney would just not have allowed it either way so I doubt Coogler even got the chance to debate whether to include it.
Catradora is CANON folks
No one:
Me throughout the entire video: when's she gonna bring up the Voltron thing when's she gonna bring up the Voltron thing when's she gonna bring up the Voltron thing when's she gonna bring up the Voltron thing when's she gonna bring up the Voltron thing whe
God klance makes me go feral, and not the good kind, the "holy fuck if I see one more reference to *his sexy mullet*I will betray all of you to the galra" type of feral
Everytime we talk about Voltron, my friend yells at me about how klance is Canon. Im terrified on how to respond.
@@transphobesarestillrampant that's the thing though. It WASN'T cannon. They baited it the whole time through romantically coded scenes, advertising, and any other method you could think of. LGBT people (including me) watched that show not just cuz they enjoyed it, but because they were convinced they'd get some decent representation for their community. WHICH THEY DIDN'T. it's understandable that your friends got pissed, but you should probably tell them they got baited
@@nerdbabe8781 I've tried to tell her, but she's insisted on it being Canon. She keeps saying the voice actors hinted at it being Canon or something, idk what to say about it.
Hey gang! Thanks to those who pointed out the sound issue that suddenly appeared - turns out it was because the music from two clips got copyright notices flagged against them - have disputed on the grounds of fair use, so hopefully it will be back up asap!
Thanks! I'm glad it was a relatively simple fix.
Very insightful video. You've clearly done a lot of research into the topic and this was very informative. I hadn't known the name for queer-catching before this or how the censoring of the code affected LGBT representation in films. Now I'm off to see the other vids you mentioned in this one! :)
"WE ARE ON A SHIP. PUN INTENDED."
I feel like in this age, we are also exploring representation of a wider range of relationships in general. Fewer of us are getting married, and we are tackling things like toxic masculinity that shame men for any expression of intimacy that isn't towards a woman. So I worry a bit about trying to shoe-horn all media portrayals of intimate friendships as 'actually' queer-baiting/catching. We need representation of both. We need representation of 'good people' that codes all consensual sexual orientations as acceptable and normal. But we also need models of solid, functioning, deep friendships that don't imply sexual tension, because we also all need to feel comfortable and have deep non-sexual friendships. Women culturally have this - but men don't.
yeah i agree!! "we need more good lgbt rep for guys that isn't queerbaiting" and "guys can have deep platonic relationships" are two arguments that can and should co-exist!
I have to say, that as an asexual, it is pretty much impossible to differentiate between romantic and platonic feelings. That explains for me why some people see love where other people see friendship.
Big agree, close platonic friendships are the best.
That whole switch the gender thing is something I've been using for a while(I'm straight and completely blind to gay romance).