@@ChristAdventwitness Wrong Mr Shelton. Please, please re read and understand John 17:3. The Bible does not say three persons that make one god. you are worshiping and teaching Spiritualism to the flock. There is one God and not three in one. Do you find that anywhere in the Bible? your only defense is 1Jo 5:7, not weighed compared to the hundreds of texts pointing to God and Jesus Christ. Go back to the writings of our pioneers and sister White and the greetings of Paul in the NT. Read the history of the Council of Nicea. Even an unlearned person like me can not take 1+1+1=1. would you rather worship a Roman Catholic Creed or the One God which is in heaven? God is merciful, please return to Him before the judgment in the house of God. Trinity will usher ALL SDA into worshiping and accepting the Christian sabbath which is sunday and when Sunday Law is enforced the judgment in the house of God is over.
@@ChristAdventwitness Yes Yes Yes. Jesus, while in the garden before being captured, prayed that the Father be one in Him and He with the Father, just as He desired His followers who are in the world be unified in like believers... so that things can happen and that they can be goal oriented. That's perfect unity. Self-lessness.
At 2:43 the retired pastor shows he has not studied this issue out. Adventist used the term "trinity" in an official manner as early as 1922. Ellen White often writes about the "Three highest powers of heaven". Who would she be referring to?
This is beautiful despite being in a language not my own. I am deeply moved, and appreciate this rare gift of an elder who is not ashamed of the gospel, and not ashamed to call SDA sin by its right name.
@@earlysda Why did Ellen White, in 'Desire of Ages', write "third person" - when, in the exact same paragraph, she defines this 'third person' as Jesus' Spirit/Character? "Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third Person of the Godhead.... Christ has given His Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress His own character upon His church." {Desire of Ages p. 671}
Part 2 of 3 In his book Froom writes the following: “I was compelled to search out a score of valuable books written by men outside of our Faith ... for initial clues and suggestions ... Having these, I went on from there. But they were decided early helps. And scores, if not hundreds, could confirm the same sobering conviction that some of these other men frequently had a deeper insight into the spiritual things of God than many of our own men had on the Holy Spirit and the triumphant life. It was still a largely obscure theme." (LeRoy Froom, Movement of Destiny, p.322) "The next logical and inevitable step in the implementing of our unified fundamental beliefs, involved revision of certain standard works, so as to eliminate statements that taught, and thus perpetuated erroneous views on the Godhead. Such sentiments were now sharply at variance with the accepted fundamental beliefs set forth in the Church Manual." (Movement of Destiny, p.422) “May I here make a frank personal confession? When, back between 1926 and 1928, I was asked by our leaders to give a series of studies on the Holy Spirit, covering the North American union ministerial institutes of 1928, I found that, aside from priceless leads found in the Spirit of Prophecy, there was practically nothing in our literature setting forth a sound Biblical exposition in this tremendous field of study. There were no previous pathfinding books on the question in our literature. I was compelled to search out a score of valuable books written by men outside of our faith-those previously noted-for initial clues and suggestions, and to open up beckoning vistas to intensive personal study. Having these, I went on from there. But they were decided early helps. And scores, if not hundreds, could confirm the same sobering conviction that some of these other men frequently had a deeper insight into the spiritual things of God than many of our own men then had on the Holy Spirit and the triumphant life. It was still a largely obscure theme.” - Movement Of Destiny. p. 322 And what was the primary purpose of what LeRoy Froom, Daniells and others did in bringing the trinity god teaching into the Adventist Church? ... "We are one with our fellow Christians of denominational groups in the great fundamentals of the faith once delivered to the saints." (Questions on Doctrines, p.32). “The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-Day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Selected Messages Book 1, 204.2 cont. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. Selected Messages Book 1-Page 204.2 cont. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Selected Messages Book 1-Page 204.2 Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure.” [ Selected Messages Book 1-Page 204, 205] Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? Selected Messages Book 1, p. 205.1 (Ellen Gould White) George R. Knight is professor of church history at the Theological Seminary, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan. "Most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the trinity." - George Knight, Ministry, October 1993, p. 10. "Adventist beliefs have changed over the years under the impact of 'present truth.' Most startling is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord. … the Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs, was not generally held by the early Adventists. Even today a few do not subscribe to it." (William G. Johnsson in the Adventist Review, Jan. 6, 1994 p.10) Falsify the history about the original SDA pioneer position regarding the trinity. This revisionist history can be seen in the books Questions on Doctrine and Movement of Destiny. While Froom is not the originator of this tactic he is most certainly the key perpetrator and popularizer of it. Burn evidence to the contrary. This little known fact reveals much about Mr. Froom. True historians do not burn the source material yet Froom did! When I learned about this I was not even surprised. It fit the pattern perfectly because based on the personal letters that he received Le Roy Froom actually knew the truth but chose to lie anyway. It's just more dishonest, underhanded tactics on Froom's part. 3) Promote unbegottenism by introducing new theology and playing a part in having the old pioneer references to the begotten Son expunged. Due to this, Froom is certainly culpable for the psuedo-tritheistic doctrine that exists in Adventism today. 4) Manipulate the inspired data from the Spirit of prophecy. Froom did this on a few subjects. Basically he used partial data presentations, out of context quotations, and ellipses to make Mrs. White seem like she was supporting doctrines that she really was not (i.e. trinity, [pre-fall, sinless flesh] nature of Christ, [completed] atonement [at Calvary]) [brackets added for clarity]
@@Cryaloud: Good question. I will never stop praying that God may bring about a reformation amongst all SDA members, especially the leaders. Unfortunately, I live in a country where there are no communities of worshippers who believe as I do. So, I worship at home and listen to quite a few ministries who believes as I do.
@@Cryaloud: By air approx. 5100 nautical miles. Unfortunately, for now, that is all I can share. What I omitted in my original message is that once every eight weeks, I visit the local SDA church. The church members still treat me very well. I must also acknowledge that I’ve never heard anyone preach the Trinity message from that church’s pulpit. Years ago, I openly spoke against the Trinity doctrine. I was asked to meet with the pastor and the elders. None of them could Biblically defend the Trinity doctrine. The pastor suddenly adjourned the meeting without any action taken against me. Even to this day, I am on their record as a member of the SDA Church. What saddens me is that some prominent SDA Trinitarians acknowledged that the Trinity doctrine is unbiblical, yet Ted Wilson speaks harshly against those who do not accept the Trinity doctrine. Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanks for your video, i'm your brother from Indonesia, for years I confuse to compare about our belief when i teenager and today, thankyou. curiosity answered already. Please more number retirement pastor interview publish... Like this..... And classified in playlist to know old faith and our pioneer believe
Thank you for this video! God bless you both! This video included everything that I have also learned from the Holy Writings. Praise the Lord! The whole Bible points to God as the ultimate power, Jesus His Son and the Holy Spirit - God's Spirit/Helper. I have prayed about this so many times because it is so frustrating and unbelievable that the clear teaching of who Jesus is, in relation to the Father, is completely ignored by mainstream Christians. Not only is it ignored, but in some local churches, you are not even allowed to discuss the non-biblical aspect of the Trinity. That is why I left the SDA church, amongst other reasons. God's Word is our only authority. We have to stand by the Word of God, no matter what. Glory to the Father - forever!
There's a little problem with Line of Truth Ministries belief system you should be aware of.... Matt Dooley of Line of Truth Ministries says....
"Jesus is as fully divine as His Father. Just because we believe Jesus' personality had a beginning does not mean that HE IS AN INFERIOR OR LESSER God. Nor does a hierarchy between the Father and Son IMPLY THAT THE SON IS INFERIOR AS WELL." Then he says in an article concerning Revelation 1:7,8 "I can see how some would apply verse 8 to Jesus, but we need to understand that John is the one speaking of Christ’s second coming, AND NOT CHRIST HIMSELF SPEAKING". So, first He says Jesus is not inferior to God, then He has a problem with God's Holy Prophet, John, telling you Jesus is God Almighty in Rev. 1:8, which makes Jesus equal to God! He's forced to interpret Rev. 1:7,8 that way, because the SDA pioneer, Uriah Smith, said that was not Jesus Almighty in Rev. 1:8. And Matt Dooley believes in studying the belief system of the SDA pioneers, which prevents him from hearing what the Holy Spirit has to say. That's God's Holy Prophet, John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation, speaking in Rev. 1:7,8. Matt Dooley, is not one of God's Holy Prophets. He has never been 'IN THE SPIRIT'! Uriah Smith is not one of God's Holy Prophets. Matt Dooley, does not have the credentials to challenge the plain statement of one of God's Holy Prophets, who was IN THE SPIRIT throughout the vision he calls 'the unveiling'. The only valid hierarchy I see, is this. 1. God 2. God's Holy Prophets 3. Matt Dooley Who is Matt Dooley compared to God's Holy Prophet John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation? Answer: A NOBODY..... And Matt Dooley has blasphemed the Holy Spirit, because God's Holy Prophet John was 'in the Spirit' throughout the Revelation. Matt Dooley speaks with forked tongue.
@@clarawagon9019 Dear sister, I believe you misunderstood brother Matt's point concerning Rev 1:8. His point is not that verses 7 and 8 are not inspired. He simply points out that verse 8 does not indicate who is speaking here. Your view that it is Christ speaking about Himself is an interpretation of the verse. But there are other options. Let me illustrate that: Rev 1:8 says: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Option 1: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending", saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. In this case, it could be Christ speaking about himself, it could also be the Father speaking about himself. Both call themselves "Alpha and Omega" in Revelation (s. Rev 1:11 and 21:6), both are referred to as Lord. Option 2: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." In this case, it would probably be Christ reporting on his Father saying that His Son is the Alpha and the Omega. The latter part would probably refer to the Father then, but it could also refer to Christ. It could also be the Father reporting on Christ's words, but for me that would be rather unlikely. Option 3: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending," saith the Lord, "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Here possible interpretations would be similar to Option 3. Let's not accuse each other of rejecting the inspired Words of God, when in fact we simply disagree with each other's interpretations of God's Word. Blessings from Germany! Mattis
Thank God that this movement is growing fast and in these last days. I cannot support the trinity because Pastors have to say that the sonship of Christ is only metaphorical, to accommodate the holy Spirit. But the writings of John are very clear. All his letters review the Son of God, and He would send His Spirit. SDA is very much Judaism from the time of Jesus. The leaders were not prepared for the coming of the Son of God, neither recognized Him. Today, trinitarianism is a smoke curtain and leaders, although pray for the holy Spirit, don't know what it is. All virgins are sleeping. But the bridegroom is coming. The books of John reveal who the Spirit is. Our Lord is coming. There might be coronaviruses, lockdowns, end of democracy, great reset. God's people will be fed.
Part 3 of 3 Movement of Destiny or Movement of Deception? Le Roy Froom was best known in the Seventh-day Adventist church for his work as editor for several church publications, a church historian, secretary of the General Conference Ministerial Association, and author of several books. He was also a musician. Froom was born in Belvedere, Illinois. He studied at Pacific Union College and Walla Walla College before graduating from Washington Training Center. There are mixed stories about Le Roy Froom along with a connection to the Catholic church. History shows he had a yearning to cross the divide between us and others and unite the Adventist church with Evangelicals and just about anyone else, to be accepted and not be classified as a cult as the testimony of the 1950’s Evangelical Conference will show. He wrote the pro-trinitarian book entitled “Coming of the Comforter - Studies on the Coming and Work of the Third Person of the Godhead” (1928) In 1960, Froom sent a letter to Otto Christensen in which he gives us evidence that it was his (Froom’s) personal efforts that helped to bring about this change in beliefs about the Holy Spirit within Seventh-day Adventism. It shows us clearly too that the pioneers did not accept that the Holy Spirit is a person like God and Christ, also that there was decided resistance to this change. This is when Froom said in his letter “May I state that my book, THE COMING OF THE COMFORTER was the result of a series of studies that I gave in 1927 - 1928, to ministerial institutes throughout North America. You cannot imagine how I was pummelled by some of the old-timers because I pressed on the personality of the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Godhead. Some men denied that - still deny it. But the book has come to be generally accepted as standard.” ” (L. Froom, letter to Otto Christenson, 27th October 1960) “Back in the spring of 1930 Arthur G. Daniells for more than twenty years president of the General Conference, told me he believed that, at a later time, I should undertake a thorough survey of the entire plan of redemption…. I was a connecting link between past leaders and the present. But, he said, it is to be later - not yet, not yet. Elder Daniels recognized the serious problems involved, and sensed almost prophetically certain difficulties that would confront. He knew that time would be required for certain theological wounds to heal, and for attitudes to modify on the part of some. Possibly it would be necessary to wait until certain individuals had dropped out of action (died), before the needed portrayal could wisely be brought forth.” - Movement Of Destiny, p. 17; “I am charged to tell our people that they do not realize that the devil has device and device, and he carries them out in ways that they do not expect. Satan’s agencies will invent ways to make sinners out of saints. I tell you now, that when I am laid to rest, great changes will take place. I do not know when I shall be taken; and I desire to warn all against the devices of the devil. I want the people to know that I warned them fully before my death.” - Manuscript 1, February 24, 1915 1931 SDA Fundamental Beliefs 1931. P. 377.3 2 That the Godhead, or Trinity, consists of the Eternal Father, a personal, spiritual Being, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, infinite in wisdom and love; the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Eternal Father, through whom all things were created and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the great regenerating power in the work of redemption. Matthew 28:19; Isaiah 44:6;48:13; Matthew 12:32; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Revelation 1:8,11) 3 That Jesus Christ is very God, ... 1941- Missing quotes BOOK “EVANGELISM” PLAYS VITAL PART.-”Later, when I connected with the Ministerial Association of the General Conference, I did considerable research in the Spirit of Prophecy writings on this subject, and found much more. When we were asked to help in compiling the book Evangelism these and many other counsels became a vital part of that book. Note the section ‘The Message and Its Presentation’ (pp. 168-216). LeRoy Froom, Movement of Destiny p.621 th-cam.com/video/goLppG2_7LM/w-d-xo.html
Powerful and absolutely true. Yes indeed the adventist church changed and will continue going the Catholic way as long as we worship a triune God or embrace the Trinity. The trinity is the centre of catholicism and Sun Worship. All the rest come from trinity : ecumenism, women's ordination, charismatic worship styles, affirming of alternative sexuality, child baptism, nature worship (ecological conversion), social justice gospel etc. Neal C Wilson was right when he said the SDA church is now a truly catholic organisation. He wouldn't have said that before 1980. The trinity was the game changer. And true adventist will reject the triune god and return to one true God the Father and his begotten Son Jesus Christ.
Thank you pastor for this interview of a faithful servant of the only True God! I am so encouraged to stand firmly on the platform of our Fundamental Principles. What the retired pastor said that those waiting for the coming of Jesus Christ is not high! It saddens me that the pagan sun god is the center of worship not God the Father that cause this remark. I pray that many will watch this video and return to the worship of the only True God and His only Begotten Son whom He has sent to this earth to redeem us from our sin! Those who say that the trinity their form of worship, there is still time to repent, study the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit to teach and establish them into the worship of the only True God! It is all about worship, worship of the only True God, and not pagan sun god, ushering all to worship on the first day of the week, Sunday, the Christian Sabbath not the Biblical Sabbath, the 7th day of the week. Thank you and God bless your ministry!
First you say, 'Only true God' is Father, then with same breath, you say we must worship both the Father and "begotten Son"! So now we find you WORSHIP TWO gods, not just "one" after all. Anti-trinitarians say the Father is Almighty God and Jesus is lesser inferior god has a beginning somewhere in the eternity past. This is where this Arian heresy crumbles to the ground my sister. Jesus declares, " I Am the beginning and the End, the First and the Last, ALMIGHTY...I became dead, but now live forevermore" Rev. 1:8,17,18. Isaiah says that 'No god was form either before or after god' (Isaiah 43:10) so, Christ cannot be a second LESSER god with a beginning somewhere in infinity.
@@ChristAdventwitness Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: V6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: V9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name; V10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, under the earth V11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. John 17:3 And this is life eternal THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST, WHOM THOU HAST SENT. John 14:28..... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. Ponder on these texts Brother Don. You have the means of giving the True Message if you desire, while there is still time and obey God rather than men. We all know that trinity is pagan sun god! Fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of his judgment is come! Prepare His people, to meet thy God, and not sin till Jesus comes. Do you believe Jesus is begotten of the Father? John 3:16 For God so loved the world and gave His only Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have eternal Life. Who is greater, the Father or the Son? Like you for example; you have a son, is he greater than You? As a human being your son is a human as well. So if God the Father is God, Jesus must be God too, the Son of God (not God the son) their nature is God....We have to know whom we worship, serve, praise and glorify. May God bless you and come to know the One True God and His only begotten Son. Trinity? Try to look for God the Holy Spirit in The Bible...NONE. it is a universal god that has crept into the SDA denomination and many will perish for not knowing who they worship. Deut 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve gods, and worship them; V17 And then the Lord"s wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven against you......Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel:The Lord our God is one Lord....HAPPY AND BLESSED SABBATH. This is Nora Llaniguez
Shelton Donald If we have not a deep experience in the things of God, if we have not a thorough knowledge of His Word, we shall be beguiled to our ruin by the errors and sophistries of the enemy. False doctrines will sap the foundations of many, because they have not learned to discern truth from error. Our only safeguard against the wiles of Satan is to study the Scriptures diligently, to have an intelligent understanding of the reasons of our faith, and faithfully to perform every known duty. The indulgence of one known sin will cause weakness and darkness, and subject us to fierce temptation.... - {Mar 95.3} Is there any error on this text bro Don; James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. THERE IS ONE GOD! Read the Holy Scripture as it is and don’t add or omit because you know it well what will happen when judgment comes!!! Blessed Sabbath... prepare God’s people according to His Word!
Shelton Donald good morning and a blessed Sabbath from the other side of the world. I would like to clarify that we are NOT anti trinitarians; it’s grammatically wrong. We are believers of the Only True God and His only Begotten Son (non trinitarians). First of all, trinity defaces God and does not believe in Father and Son relationship! The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father and of Jesus Christ and not a third person. It is the Comforter that Jesus asked the Father to send in His name, because of His great love for us He will not leave us comfortless. Since Jesus Christ is in the most Holy Place interceding for the Father and us, His Spirit/the Spirit of God was given to us to teach, guide and mold our character according to the similitude of Christ. I know you know all these because you went to theology school to attain higher education. But for unlearned people like me, I read The Bible as it is and don’t interpret it like other learned people do; and the Spirit of Prophecy our compass to greater Light of Truth! Simple and primitive Godliness is what the Lord requires of us, not the higher education that is learned from great universities but instead we learn from the School of Christ. I will worship and exalt God the Father and His Son alone and not a three in one god (trinity) you claim for my God will save me, forgive all my sins, and eventually adopt me to be His child. I can’t worship a man made god the trinity (as introduced by our GC Pres’ father Neal Wilson and announced that the SOP is a heap of trash and that we are ALL Catholics, a universal church of error and Spiritualism! This is the main reason that only smooth messages of comfort thus making members asleep in the comfort of their seats is preached in the churches’ pulpits whose pillars have been broken down by apostasy! The Third Angel’s Message is barely heard because since the denomination became a member of the world council of churches, the GC can no longer give the straight message to the dying members because how can a member defame a co member of the WCC? BEM; baptism, Eucharist and ministry is all about our logo now which replaced the biblical logo of the Three Angels’ Message! Rev 14:6-10....After officially accepting the RC creed in 1981, the message of salvation has been watered down! Wake up saints! Isa 58:Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. 11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. 12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. This is another thing we have noticed since trinity became the 2nd fundamental belief of our denomination: Sabbath is lightly regarded. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. - {1SM 204.2}
“We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.-Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.)” Evangelism, 616. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)”
@@ChristAdventwitness this is false teaching, The holy spirit is the spirit of God which lives within those who accept it. it is as the wind the Bible refers to the Holy spirit as pneuma and we have but ONE God not three. This teaching comes from the Catholic church some of Ellen whites writings have been changed because she said this was not a matter to debate
@@ChristAdventwitness well , clearly God is not a person he is a God. I worship God the father and God the son and the holy spirit is given unto all who accept it is like the wind and the breath of God which brings us life. I believe the Bible and subscribe to it's teaching not to mans.
nancy alcorn, Sister the Bible only teaches the Son of God, not God the Son. This is how so many refer to Jesus, God the Son, but personally I have to undo (God the Son) when I address Jesus, as the Son of God. Have a blessed day!
Pastor, Im a Non-trinitarian SDA from Philippines and I think I got something to share. God's nature is revealed through the atomic structure. If ever you read this, please leave a link wherein we can talk and I'll explain it to you. I'm open of any correction. But I'm under the impression that the very building block that comprised all creation is actually the signature of God's nature.
The True SDA has the Pillars of our Faith given by the Holy Spirit to our Pioneers and Sister White that we may give the message of the Three angels for our generation. The Fundamental Principles of 1889 if obeyed implicitly the platform of our faith built on the Rock will not end in the condition of our denomination now. I pray that you go back to the original SDA of Primitive Godliness. Jesus is soon to come. Blessed Sabbath
@@ChristAdventwitness Should you let God lead you into ALL truth, you might be humbled to see the simple truth THAT WAS TAUGHT. How can Jesus be equal with God if there are three? How do you get three who were ALL, "The Supreme Ruler of the universe" when there is only is ONE who is called the Father? Be honest.
Where did you go? Because I'm advent christian and we have been infiltrated by a overwhelming amount of annoying trinitarians. I dont align well with Jehovah witnesses either though so at a loss of where to go.
''About the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “Eʹli, Eʹli, laʹma sa·bach·thaʹni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” These words hit hard in this philosophical doctrine.
Athanasius was the "leader" of the committee in charge of developing a doctrine for the trinity. The committee argued and argued. The emperor became impatient. They argue and argued some more. The emperor became more impatient, then angry, impatient, and threatening. The committee became afraid and rushed a document together. Athanasius wrote this about that document, "I am nor sure this is truth." ("No one is good but the one God." - not my words)
Ivan, the retired pastor seems to know very little of the history of the use of "Trinity" in the SDA Church. For example, he says it basically got started with Wilson in the late 1970s, when in fact, that term was used to define official Adventist doctrine at least as early as 1922. . Ellen White often mentions the "Three highest powers of heaven". Who are they?
@ Carson LLANNIGUEZ: YOU said, "Even an unlearned person like me can not take 1+1+1=1." Now, you Anti-trinitarians accuse the SDA with 1+1+1=3, not 1+1+1=1. Couldn't you be accused of the same: 1+1=2 not 1+1=1?
Shelton Donald oh brother Donald may God direct you to the right path. You know very well that we have only ONE Father in heaven and His Son is God also because Jesus came from the Father who is God. Their nature is God! Just like you a human who has a human son. Simple! Have a blessed day. Please tone down because we just want to share to you the bright light of salvation! God loves you and look to Jesus alone and not to the anti trinitarians. We love you brother. We can not be in state of Laodicea but Philadelphia instead. Brotherly love.
Retired Pastor vs. Jesus, Moses, and the Prophet Jesus sent from heaven..... Exodus 32:31-33 Lord there is YHWH which is God, and in verse 33, YHWH says he who sins against him will have their name blotted out of HIS (YHWH'S) book of life. In Revelation 22:16 Jesus says he sent His angel. In Rev. 1:1 only one angel is sent. In Rev. 22:6-9 that angel Jesus sent turns out to be a Prophet, and that Prophet calls Jesus LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS. In case you are wondering if Jesus is some kind of lesser God, in Revelation 3:5, Jesus says he is the one who removes or doesn't remove your name from the Book of Life. It's Jesus' Book of Life, Rev. 21:27, YHWH's BOOK OF LIFE, and it is YHWH that removes your name from His Book of Life, which means Jesus IS YHWH!! Do I have to do the math for you? It's YHWH's Book of Life. It's Jesus' Book of Life. YHWH removes your name or not from His book of Life. Jesus' removes your name from His Book of Life, or not. Again, Rev. 21:27. Jesus is YHWH, obviously. The Prophet Jesus sent from heaven in Rev. 22:16, is the only human in the Bible that sees clearly, according to the Apostle Paul, who Jesus, YHWH, hand picked to preach to the gentiles, 1 Corinthians 13:12. He was sent from heaven by Jesus, YHWH, seeing clearly. This video is sponsored by Line of Truth Ministries, a misguided group of malcontented former SDA's that do not believe Jesus is YHWH! Follow them and you will lose your eternal life for subtracting from the Revelation. Rev. 22:19, Rev. 21:8.
It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Spirit is the Comforter, "the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father." It is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit that, in His work of guiding men into all truth, "He shall not speak of Himself." John 15:26; 16:13. [52] The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden. The office of the Holy Spirit is distinctly specified in the words of Christ: "When He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." John 16:8. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin. If the sinner responds to the quickening influence of the Spirit, he will be brought to repentance and aroused to the importance of obeying the divine requirements. To the repentant sinner, hungering and thirsting for righteousness, the Holy Spirit reveals the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. "He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you," Christ said. "He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 16:14; 14:26.
@ Carson LLANNIGUEZ: YOU said, "Go back to the writings of our pioneers and sister White and the greetings of Paul in the NT." Not just only apostle Paul in N.T, but throughout Bible we find clear evidence for the bible doctrine of the Trinity: That's the Father, the Christ and the Holy Spirit are the Heavenly One True God. They are self-existent divine Persons (divine, means God). Divinity is the nature or quality of being God, within Christianity, it belongs to God alone. The Trinity is the Unity of these Three divine Persons in Heaven and they are the 'One true God! The SDA's believe the "three living persons of the heavenly trio" are a "trinity," three distinct persons, in perfect unity as ONE God. 'ONE' is the UNITY, in purpose, love, nature, character/righteousness, and glory. To begin with the very word "GOD" in original Hebrew language is "ELOHIM" which is a plurality of persons. Sister Ellen White, affirms there are THREE WITNESSESS in Heaven as in 1 John 5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." For the {6BC 1074.8} MS 57, 1900 "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, man is laid in his watery grave, buried with Christ in baptism, and raised from the water to live the new life of loyalty to God. THE THREE great powers in heaven are WITNESSES; they are invisible but present." “The eternal Godhead-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”- Upward Look, 148. "There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)
Shelton Donald my religion is the religion of Christ and I go to the school of Christ where simple religion is taught and not the teachings of men. BRI where most of the pastors went to school is Jesuit schools? Higher education in where men’s interpretation has poisoned many intellectuals but dishonored God, defaced God and took Him out of His throne and replaced by a pagan trinity god, god of Sunday keepers. SDA who should believe trinity will be ushered to worshiping on Sunday when enforced by the US... God bless my brother. We can’t betray one another but love one another in Christ’s name, or we will not receive the latter rain much more seal of God. God wants us to go back to Philadelphia condition not laodicean condition. God loves you so much and He wants you to give Him your full and implicit obedience! Love from your sister in Christ.....Nora Llaniguez
Shelton Donald "It is the unanimous opinion of the committee appointed to consider the matter of the Church Manual that it would not be advisable to have a Church Manual. We consider it unnecessary because we have already surmounted the greatest difficulties connected with church organization without one; and perfect harmony exists among us on this subject. It would seem to many like a step toward the formation of a creed or a discipline, other than the Bible, something we have always been opposed to as a denomination. If we had one, we fear many, especially those commencing to preach, would study it to obtain guidance in religious matters, rather that to seek for it in the Bible, and from the leading of the Spirit of God, which would tend to their hindrance in genuine religious experience, and in knowledge of the mind of the Spirit. It was in taking similar steps that other bodies of Christians first began to lose their simplicity and become formal and spiritually lifeless. Why should we imitate them? The committee feels, in short, that our tendency should be in the direction of the policy and close conformity of the Bible, rather than to elaborately defining every point in church management and church ordinances."
Being a pastor myself, I don't know Pastor Mueller personally, but I do respect any servant of God who gave his life in fulfilling the gospel commission. Unfortunately he is completely wrong in his viewpoint about how the "trinity" became part of our fundamental beliefs. It looks like he is seperating the german field from the world church - and maybe there was/is something in it, but historically correct is the following: 1. the church underwent major changes according to their understanding about the godhead much ealier than mentioned and promoted it. In 1911 the book 'Bible Doctrines' (O.A. Johnson - bible teacher at Walla Walla College) was published. Reflecting the ongoing change in our theology Johnson wrote: 'There are three persons of the Godhead' and 'The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead' (O.A. Johnson, Bible Doctrines, p.26) 2. F.M. Wilcox wrote an article in 1913 which was published in the Review & Herald, October 9, 1913 (p. 21) which stated: '. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.' As early as 1913 the understanding of the godhead had change completely. 3. By the time of 1932 the church accepted an official 'declaration of faith' called 'Fundamental Beliefs' writing: '2. That the Godhead, or Trinity, consists of the Eternal Father, a personal, spiritual Being, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, infinite in wisdom and love; the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Eternal Father, through whom all things were created and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the great regenerating power in the work of redemption.' (Fundamental Beliefs, 1931, 377) F.M. Wilcox was one of the four persons offically appointed to prepare such a document. Therefore it is a gross error to postulate that Neal C. Wilson was the one who 'introduced' the trinity into the adventist church. History proves the doubters wrong! The ongoing disputes about the trinity are a heavy burden, because of mislead tradition, ignorance towards the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy and a tendency to accept conspiracy theories. It makes me sad that some are not willing to learn according to the facts and to heat up long cherished convictions again and again. For me it's like Clifford Goldstein said in a devotional in words to that effect: I cannot understanding that after 100 years there are still people who don't believe in the trinity. Greetings, A sincere believer in the trinity!
1.I pray that God will reveal truth to you 1.1 You are a Pastor and quoted zero Bible verses to support your trinity belief! Clifford Goldstein is not the word of God! 1.2 I am a sincere denier of the Satanic Babylonian belief of the trinity doctrine.... given to us by the Harlot that sits on many waters..... The Roman Catholic Church BELOW IS HOW A LIE WORKS FROM A MASTER LIAR: 2. "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? "HATH GOD SAID"? SO, let's apply Satans Strategy that bring confusion & Doubt over the plain words of God & His Son..... 3. Did God really say or mean 'Son" when he He said, "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased? Did Jesus really say or mean 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do"? 4. Trinitarians deny God and deny His Son! .....God isn't really a father and Jesus is not really a son????? According to Catholics, SDA';s and other protestants...SON & Father are Metaphors... GOD and Jesus didn't really mean Son or Father!!!! So the plain reading of the verses are LIES??? NEITHER GOD OR HIS SON MEANT WHAT THEY SAID! 5. 1 John 2:22 KJV Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 6.Below is a statement from the SDA Biblical Research Institute denying GOD the Father and His Son "The metaphor is therefore a good symbol for the deep unity that exists within the members of the Godhead (John 17:5). Fourth, a human child comes from its parents through natural birth. In the case of the Godhead, however, the Son proceeded from the Father, not as a divine emanation or through natural birth, but to perform a work of creation and redemption (John 8:42; 16:28). There is no biblical support for the eternal generation of the Son from the Father. The Son came from God but was not generated by Him. Fifth, the father-son image cannot be literally applied to the divine Father-Son relationship within the Godhead. The Son is not the natural, literal Son of the Father. A natural child has a beginning, while within the Godhead the Son is eternal. The term “Son” is used metaphorically when applied to the Godhead. It conveys the ideas of distinction of persons within the Godhead and the equality of nature in the context of an eternal, loving relationship. 7. 1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 8.1 John 2 22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. The Catholic Church Pope and Leadership are full of demonic influences and have twisted and warped the truth that God made so plain ..Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. [3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 9. THE RCC gave us the Babylonian Trinity Gods “The trinity got its start in Ancient Babylon with Nimrod - Tammuz - and Semiramis. Semiramis demanded worship for both her husband and her son as well as herself. She claimed that her son, was both the father and the son. Yes, he was “god the father” and “god the son” - The first divine incomprehensible trinity.” . Please humble yourself to our Father and ask him to reveal the truth to you. THE SATANIC LIES DENYING GOD & HIS SON HAVE DELUDED THE WORLD Matthew 16:15 JESUS SAID: 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah. Sadly, THE SDA Church is now an apostate religion...prophesied by E .G White. WE NEED To PRAY, FAST AND CRY BEFORE THE LORD TO HOLD US in Faith Love and Truth.
Thank you for the info but the sheer fact that it was ever altered from the pioneers understanding is a red flag enough for me. I'm pretty sure in a couple years the world will be saying "I can't believe that there's people who STILL keep the Sabbath"
Funny how I do not see one desenting view here. Lol Amazing how we only have his word. This video gives NOT ONE verse to support this NON-Trinitarian viewpoint. There are TWO versions of the Trinity. There is the Roman Catholic version and there is INDEED a Biblical truth... which is supported by Ellen G White - "Evangelism" - Misrepresentations of the Godhead - starting page 613. I suppose I could give a half dozen or more LOGICAL / REASONABLE / SOUND scriptures that support this. However, someone will either 1) delete my post or 2) Put a bunch of scriptures or Ellen G White quotes taken out of context. Shame for shame! We have been warned to not talk about this subject. Maranatha!
This retired minister says that he didn't know about the doctrine of Trinity in the SDA church, neither they taught in SDA school where he got his training. The SDA church has been teaching the Godhead (Trinity) for very long time even though they struggled with the subject in the formative stage of the SDA movement. The majority of early Adventists came to the Adventist movement from non-trinitarian churches. For example, the very first Adventists James White and Joseph bates were former ordained pastors of 'Christian Connexion unitarian(anti-trinitairan) Church' in 1840's. Slowly but surely God led this movement to the truth through the prophetic ministry of sister Ellen White. Our early pioneers themselves did not fully understand the Trinity in the beginning, but as they learned deeper they understood the favorite Catholic Trinity at this time, and they rejected Catholics counterfeit Trinity. However, the modern day mistaken "SDA" anti-trinitarain claim that the "SDA pioneers" rejected the Trinity! But they wouldn't tell you what Trinity, they had rejected! What Trinity were the early pioneers had rejected? It was the Catholic counterfeit Trinity that they had rejected. What is the Catholic Trinity and WHY did the pioneers reject it? Roman Catholicism teaches that the Son comes out of the Father and the Holy Spirit comes from both;-and yet there is only one God! That is -- it maintains the trinity is ONE being of substance, and this substance is shared by three hypostases or distinct projections or persons that constitute Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Father generates the Son, and together they spirate or "breath out" the Spirit. There is no Son apart from the Father and no Holy Spirit apart from both. Now this teaching stems from the 4th century roots of Arian heresy. so they say Christ is not eternal, and no-separate-Holy Spirit. Do the Seventh-Day Adventists teach the Catholic Trinity? Not at all! What is the SDA Trinity? The SDA's believe the Trinity is the union of three (Father, Christ and Holy Spirit), and they are "three living persons of the heavenly trio" unified as One God. The God (Elohim is a plurality) of three distinct persons, in perfect UNITY as 'ONE GOD'. They are not three gods, but ONE God in three persons ETERNALLY SELF-EXISTENT. The Bible and Spirit of Prophecy affirms this truth: Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. “The eternal Godhead-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”- Upward Look, 148. "There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)”
Here is what the BRI says: Nature of God. A reading of the above statements will show that with respect to their doctrine of God Seventh-day Adventists are in harmony with the great creedal statements of Christendom, including the Apostles' Creed, Nicea 325), and the additional definition of faith concerning the Holy Spirit as reached in Constantinople (381). source: adventistbiblicalresearch.org/materials/adventist-heritage-conversations-other-christians-catholics/seventh-day-adventists-brief
ž ž “While no single scripture passage states the doctrine of the Trinity, it is assumed as a fact…only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity.” (Adventist Review, vol.158, No.31,p4) ž ž “The concept of the Trinity, namely the idea that the three are one, is not explicitly stated but only assumed.” - Fernando L. Canale, the Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopedia vol. 12, p.138,’Doctrine of God’ ž
1.I pray that God will reveal truth to you 1.2 I am a sincere denier of the Satanic Babylonian belief of the trinity doctrine.... given to us by the Harlot that sits on many waters..... The Roman Catholic Church BELOW IS HOW A LIE WORKS FROM A MASTER LIAR: 2. "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? "HATH GOD SAID"? SO, let's apply Satans Strategy that bring confusion & Doubt over the plain words of God & His Son..... 3. Did God really say or mean 'Son" when he He said, "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased? Did Jesus really say or mean 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do"? 4. Trinitarians deny God and deny His Son! .....God isn't really a father and Jesus is not really a son????? According to Catholics, SDA';s and other protestants...SON & Father are Metaphors... GOD and Jesus didn't really mean Son or Father!!!! So the plain reading of the verses are LIES??? NEITHER GOD OR HIS SON MEANT WHAT THEY SAID! 5. 1 John 2:22 KJV Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 6.Below is a statement from the SDA Biblical Research Institute denying GOD the Father and His Son "The metaphor is therefore a good symbol for the deep unity that exists within the members of the Godhead (John 17:5). Fourth, a human child comes from its parents through natural birth. In the case of the Godhead, however, the Son proceeded from the Father, not as a divine emanation or through natural birth, but to perform a work of creation and redemption (John 8:42; 16:28). There is no biblical support for the eternal generation of the Son from the Father. The Son came from God but was not generated by Him. Fifth, the father-son image cannot be literally applied to the divine Father-Son relationship within the Godhead. The Son is not the natural, literal Son of the Father. A natural child has a beginning, while within the Godhead the Son is eternal. The term “Son” is used metaphorically when applied to the Godhead. It conveys the ideas of distinction of persons within the Godhead and the equality of nature in the context of an eternal, loving relationship. 7. 1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 8.1 John 2 22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. The Catholic Church Pope and Leadership are full of demonic influences and have twisted and warped the truth that God made so plain ..Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. [3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 9. THE RCC gave us the Babylonian Trinity Gods “The trinity got its start in Ancient Babylon with Nimrod - Tammuz - and Semiramis. Semiramis demanded worship for both her husband and her son as well as herself. She claimed that her son, was both the father and the son. Yes, he was “god the father” and “god the son” - The first divine incomprehensible trinity.” . Please humble yourself to our Father and ask him to reveal the truth to you. THE SATANIC LIES DENYING GOD & HIS SON HAVE DELUDED THE WORLD Matthew 16:15 JESUS SAID: 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah. Sadly, THE SDA Church is now an apostate religion...prophesied by E .G White. WE NEED To PRAY, FAST AND CRY BEFORE THE LORD TO HOLD US in Faith Love and Truth.
Matt Dooley of Line of Truth Ministries says.... "Jesus is as fully divine as His Father. Just because we believe Jesus' personality had a beginning does not mean that HE IS AN INFERIOR OR LESSER God. Nor does a hierarchy between the Father and Son IMPLY THAT THE SON IS INFERIOR AS WELL." Then he says in an article concerning Revelation 1:7,8 "I can see how some would apply verse 8 to Jesus, but we need to understand that John is the one speaking of Christ’s second coming, AND NOT CHRIST HIMSELF SPEAKING". So, first He says Jesus is not inferior to God, then He has a problem with God's Holy Prophet, John, telling you Jesus is God Almighty in Rev. 1:8, which makes Jesus equal to God! He's forced to interpret Rev. 1:7,8 that way, because the SDA pioneer, Uriah Smith, said that was not Jesus Almighty in Rev. 1:8. And Matt Dooley believes in studying the belief system of the SDA pioneers, which prevents him from hearing what the Holy Spirit has to say. That's God's Holy Prophet, John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation, speaking in Rev. 1:7,8. Matt Dooley, is not one of God's Holy Prophets. He has never been 'IN THE SPIRIT'! Uriah Smith is not one of God's Holy Prophets. Matt Dooley, does not have the credentials to challenge the plain statement of one of God's Holy Prophets, who was IN THE SPIRIT throughout the vision he calls 'the unveiling'. The only valid hierarchy I see, is this. 1. God 2. God's Holy Prophets 3. Matt Dooley Who is Matt Dooley compared to God's Holy Prophet John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation? Answer: A NOBODY..... And Matt Dooley has blasphemed the Holy Spirit, because God's Holy Prophet John was 'in the Spirit' throughout the Revelation. Matt Dooley speaks with forked tongue.
Let's not forget that, "begotten", referring to the Son of God, is NOT PRESENT in the Aramaic Versions of the New Testament, which I believe are more reliable than the Greek "original", but only "The Unique Son of God", and also let's remind ourselves that in Christ's case, He now has two natures, one eternal, and one "incarnated" as of two millenia ago, and as of eternity planned as such. Also much care should be exercised and not confuse some references regarding either of His natures. Yes, the word Trinity is totally absent in the Scriptures, but the concept is abundantly present in both Old and New Testaments. From the VERY START we see God in the Scriptures as coming in the plural form, and The Holy Spirit is clearly present. The warning recorded in John 8:24 should be taken extremely serious...
@ Carson LLANGUEZ: The Bible and Spirit of Prophecy affirm that Jesus is that "I AM"> This phrase is as same as the name Jehovah, meaning "The Eternal Presence". The phrase, "The Lord" is a substitute for the name Yahoweh (YHWH) in the Old Testament! So Jesus is Yahweh ("Jehovah") the Eternal Presence. Jesus Himself said that If you believe not " "I AM" is HE, you will die in your sins" in John 8:24: "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, ye shall die in your sins" (also see Isaiah 46:4). Christ at the Burning bush DECLARED..... "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath SENT ME UNTO YOU. Exodus 3:14." (The Faith I Live By, Page 47The Great “I AM”, February 10). "It was Christ who from the bush on Mount Horeb spoke to Moses saying, “I AM THAT I AM.... Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” Exodus 3:14. This was the pledge of Israel's deliverance. So when He came “in the likeness of men,” He declared Himself the I AM" (Ellen G White, The Desire of Ages, p. 24) "Silence fell upon the vast assembly. THE NAME OF GOD, given to Moses TO EXPRESS THE IDEA OF THE ETERNAL PRESENCE, had been claimed AS HIS OWN by this GALILEAN RABBI. HE had announced HIMSELF TO BE THE SELF-EXISTENT ONE, He who had been promised to Israel, “whose goings forth have been from of old, FROM THE DAYS OF ETERNITY.” Micah 5:2, margin.(The Desire of Ages, Page 469-470).
Shelton Donald yes Jesus is the I am because all authority is given to Him by the Father who is above Him, because he said my Father is greater than I am!
Does the Son of God ever speak His own words? Does He not speak the words of His Father always? Was He not speaking on behalf of His Father but in first person speech when He said the words of the great I Am? Just as He was speaking in third person speech when He referred to Himself as "another Comforter"? He was a Comforter in the flesh for 33 years. Now He is a Comforter in spirit post ascension. Ellen says the Son of God is the Father's thought made audible (DA 19.2). He has been the voice, the word, the presence, the Father's name is in Him since the fall of man. Exodus 23:20-23 makes this very clear. And so does the last day prophet EGW in Story of Redemption, p. 50.3, par. 18 where Christ says through Ellen, "...Without the atonement of the Son of God there could be no communication of blessing or salvation from God to man. To Adam in his innocency was granted communion direct, free, and happy, with his Maker. After his transgression God would communicate to man through Christ and His angels." For this statement to be true, and I believe it is, the Holy Spirit can not be a 3rd "being". "The Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the only begotten Son of God, binds human agent, body, soul, and spirit to the perfect, divine - human nature of Christ." RH, April 15, 1906 par. 16 "The ONLY being who was one with God lived the law in humanity, descended to the lowly life of a common laborer, and toiled at the carpenter's bench with His earthly parent." ST, Oct 14, 1897 par. 3 Is the Father or the Son ever referred to as an "it" or a "thing" in Scripture or the SOP? No! They are not, not ever! But the spirit is often referred to as an "it" or a "thing". If the Holy Spirit were a co-equal and co-eternal being how would you explain that? To promote trinitarianism in the SDA church many of Ellen's quotes where she under the inspiration of Christ refers to the Holy Spirit as "it" have been dishonestly & fraudulently changed to "he, him, & his". "The spirit is freely given us of God if we appreciate and accept IT, and what is IT? the representation of Jesus Christ. IT is to be our constant helper. IT is through the spirit that Christ fulfills His promise, "I will never leave thee nor forsake thee." 1888 Materials, p. 1538 "The Lord is soon to come. We want that complete and perfect understanding which the Lord alone can give. It is not safe to catch the spirit from another. We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ." EGW, Letter 66 - 1894, par. 18 Ellen under inspiration also makes it very clear that Lucifer and then Gabriel after Satan was cast out held the 3rd highest rank in heaven. If the HS is a 3rd co-equal & co-eternal divine "being" this would be a huge problem, would it not? "The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficense. He had A co-worker... Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God was one with the eternal Father - one in nature, in character, in purpose - the ONLY being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God." PP p. 34.1 Compare the above statement with GC p. 492-493 which is almost identical but also states that Satan, in whom sin originated, sat NEXT to Christ, and had been most honored by God. Again, a Trinity God the Holy Spirit as a being is not accounted for. "They have one God and one Savior; and one spirit -- the spirit of Christ -- is to bring unity into their ranks." T-9, p. 189, 1909 Christ through Ellen also makes it very clear that the Father did bring forth His Son in the ages of eternity past. The Father had a literal Son to give to the world. "God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been GIVEN an exalted position. He has been MADE equal with His Father. All the counsel's of God are opened to His Son." T-8 p. 268.3 See also DA p. 166.2, RH August 26, 1890. Par. 10 In ST August 29, 1900 Ellen states that Christ is speaking through Solomon in Proverbs 8:22-36 and describes His coming forth from His Father before He and His Father created anything. Not a single soul truthfully studying the God of the Bible and His Son believes that Jesus isn't fully divine, fully God, deserving of our worship and praise. But we do believe Jesus has a God, His Father, and that He worships and praises Him as He has taught us to. But the great Sovereign one true God and Source of all does NOT worship anyone, not even His Son.
Without proper understanding of Godhead the plan of redemption becomes hazy. It's not safe when we try to bring God to human level so as to understand Him. The commentators in this forum who compare God the Father and Son relationship with that of earthly father and son have it all twisted and are in no way different from Muslims who postulate same arguments. The word of God, right from Genesis to Revelation, is clear about Trinity. Trinity is not Tri-theism as most want us to believe. The Godhead has told us Who and what He is, and one of the principal reason as to why the Jews crucified Jesus was because He claimed to be God. The God of the Bible has clearly stated that He is three in one, why is it so hard for people to agree with Him? The Bible is a salvation story and it written in a language humans can relate to and hence the reason why some in this forum think there are contradictions. If we read everything within it's context then we get better understanding of the plan of redemption and how it impacted the heart of God.
how can we know Him truly if he is already a mystery to begin with? We can know Him as far as He has revealed Himself. Jesus receives all the power and glory from the Father, yet the Father is the head of Christ. Otherwise, why did God make 2 people and not 3? We are made in His image. So he made it clear for us to understand him. That is eternal life, the true knowledge of the Father and the Son.
@ Carson LLANNGUEZ: When was Christ "begotten,"? Was it in heaven or on earth?? Psalm 2:7 (KJV) "I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN THEE." When was Christ called the First begotten? Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angles said he at any time thou art my son THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE and again I WILL BE TO HIM A FATHER and HE SHALL BE TO ME A SON? And again when he bringeth in the first begotten in to the world he saith let all the angels of God worship" Note: God says to the Son, “this day I have begotten thee”. What day is “THIS DAY”? Acts 13:33 God hath FULFILLED the same unto us their children in that he HATH RAISED JESUS UP again as it is also written in the SECOND PSALM thou art my son THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE. Note: When Jesus was resurrected, Father proclaimed “thou art my Son this day have I begotten”. Therefore, when Jesus was raised to life, he became the first begotten. Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angles said he at any time thou art my son THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE thee and again I will be to him A FATHER and he shall be to me A SON? And again when he bringeth in the first begotten in to the world he saith let all the angels of God worship" (See also Romans 1:3-4) What does the word "first born"(begotten) signify? Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body the church who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead: THAT IN ALL THINGS he might have THE PREEMINENCE. Jesus is called the first begotten when he was resurrected. The term firstborn also means preeminence which signifies that without him, there is no resurrection. When it says He is the "first born of every creature" (Col 1:15), it means without him, there is no creation
"Begotten" as it refers to Jesus' birth does not mean given birth by God. It means a unique Being that was given to mankind as a gift. Isaiah 9:6 (KJV) "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:" Jesus gave Himself for humanity, and the Father sent Him at the appointed time. The term, "Son" does not mean Jesus physically came out of the Father's loins. After all, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and she conceived Him. Matthew 1:18 (KJV) "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Right we see there being a thinking Being called the Holy Ghost/Spirit which contradicts those who disown the Trinity teaching.
Adventist Review 7-30-1981 Special Issue on Bible Doctrines - The Trinity was explained one year after it was voted as an official doctrine of the church (which was in 1980; initially composed of 27 fundamental beliefs). It states, "While no single scriptural passage states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, it is assumed as a fact by Bible writers... Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity." (p. 4) [Adventist Review, Vol 158, No. 31, p.4 "The role of the trinity in a doctrine of God always raises questions. One reason is that the word itself does not appear in the Bible, NOR IS THERE ANY CLEAR STATEMENT OF THE IDEA. But the Bible does set the stage for its formulation, and the concept represents a development of biblical claims and concepts. SO EVEN THOUGH THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY IS NOT PART OF WHAT THE BIBLE ITSELF SAYS ABOUT GOD, IT IS PART OF WHAT THE CHURCH MUST SAY to safeguard the biblical view of God." - Richard Rice, The Reign of God, An Introduction to Christian Theology from a Seventh-day Adventist Perspective’, page 89, 'A constructive proposal', 1985 Our current church leaders even admit to the fact that the trinity is simply 'ASSUMED' from the Bible ... "While NO SINGLE SCRIPTURAL PASSAGE states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, it is ASSUMED as a fact by Bible writers... Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity." (Adventist Review, July, 1981 - Special Issue on Bible Doctrines) “While no single Scripture passage states the doctrine of the Trinity, it is assumed as a fact... only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity.” - (Adventist Review, Vol. 158, No. 31, p. 4) “The concept of the Trinity, namely the IDEA THAT THE THREE ARE ONE, IS NOT EXPLICITLY STATED BUT ONLY ASSUMED.” - Fernando L. Canale, The Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopaedia, Volume 12, page 138, ‘Doctrine of God’ Where though in Scripture can be found such an idea? The answer is, it cannot be found. This is because it is not there. It is purely supposition (philosophical speculation). This is why the trinity doctrine is only an assumed doctrine. This is even duly recognized in our own denominational handbook of theology: “The concept of the Trinity, namely the IDEA THAT THE THREE ARE ONE, IS NOT EXPLICITLY STATED BUT ONLY ASSUMED.” - Fernando L. Canale, The Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopaedia, Volume 12, page 138, ‘Doctrine of God’ Just read Rome’s Challenge. Well the Catholic Church also has something to say about the Trinity. maranathamedia.com/downloads/library/charts/glm/pdf/04%20False%20Gospel/06)%20Attack%20on%20the%20Father%20and%20Son%20.pdf “Our opponents [Protestants] sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture (ignoring that it is only on the authority of the Church we recognize certain Gospels and not others as true). But the Protestant churches have themselves accepted such dogmas as the Trinity for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels... it is our claim that Tradition alone - founded on the Apostles' teaching, analyzed and reflected on through the ages by the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit promised by Christ - illumines the full and true meaning of the Scriptures.” (The Catholic Church's New Dogma: The Assumption Of Mary By Graham Green, LIFE, Oct.30, 1950, (emphasis in [brackets] supplied). Below links to more than three witnesses as to who introduced the trinity doctrine into the SDA Church www.asitreads.com/leroy-froom www.trinitytruth.org/leroyfroomandevangelism.html phm.org/froomism/ theprophetstillspeaks.co.uk/dethis/zrDHS44.htm www.end-times-prophecy.org/deception-adventist-church.html www.smyrna.org/Books/ff/ff_pdf/ff21.pdf thethirdangelsmessage.com/as_much_a_person.php www.trinityorheresy.org/EVIDENCE6B.html theos.institute/ "Thousands have a FALSE CONCEPTION of God and His attributes. They are as verily serving a FALSE GOD AS WERE THE SERVANTS OF BAAL. Are we worshiping the true God as HE is revealed in HIS word, in Christ, in nature, OR ARE WE ADORING SOME PHILOSOPHICAL IDOL ENSHRINED IN HIS PLACE? God is a God of truth." (E. White, Testimonies for the Church, Vol.5, p.174) "I knew that the omega would follow in a little while; and I trembled for our people. I knew that I must warn our brethren and sisters not to enter into controversy over the presence and personality of God ... The spiritualistic theories regarding the personality of God, followed to their logical conclusion, sweep away the whole Christian economy." (E. White, Testimonies for the Church Containing Letters to Physicians and Ministers Instruction to Seventh-day Adventists, pgr. 53-54) "I entreat everyone to be clear and firm regarding the certain truths that we have heard and received and advocated. The statements of God's Word are plain. Plant your feet firmly on the platform of eternal truth. Reject every phase of error, even though it be covered with a semblance of reality, which denies the personality of God and of Christ." (E.White, Review and Herald, Aug.31, 1905, par.11) Religion researcher Karen Armstrong explains, “The Trinity only made sense as a mystical or spiritual experience ... It was not a logical or intellectual formulation but an imaginative paradigm that confounded reason. Gregory of Nazianzus made this clear when he explained that contemplation of the Three in One induced a profound and overwhelming emotion that confounded thought and intellectual clarity. 'No sooner do I conceive of the One than I am illumined by the splendor of the Three; no sooner do I distinguish Three than I am carried back into the One. When I think of any of the Three, I think of him as the whole, and my eyes are filled, and the greater part of what I am thinking escapes me.” - (p. 117). So Karen Armstrong concludes, it is little wonder that, “For many Western Christians ... the Trinity is simply baffling.” - (ibid.)
Don't need a Trinity to prove your One and only God belief, from scripture, IS NOT FROM GOD! The following involves the Testimony of the only human source in all of the Bible that has seen God FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN. He sees clearly. YOU DON'T, I DON'T, and no one in scripture does, with the exception of the one about to be shown to you. You are contradicting the plain testimony of the only human source recorded in the Bible, who has seen God face to face clearly, in heaven, SENT BY JESUS FROM HEAVEN!!! 1 Corinthians 13:12
JESUS SENT HIS 'angel' , 'messenger' in the Koine Greek of the Revelation, from heaven, where he has seen God face to face, CLEARLY, to the Prophet John. Rev. 22:16 That 'angel' JESUS SENT, calls Jesus WHO SENT HIM, LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS! And that 'angel' JESUS SENT, tells the Holy Prophet John, that He also is one of God's Holy Prophets! Rev. 22:6-9. Now should you choose not to believe Jesus, God's Holy Prophet John who recorded this vision, and God's Holy Prophet sent from heaven seeing clearly, THE ONLY HUMAN SEEING GOD CLEARLY FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN.... Well, there are some negative eternal consequences to consider. Since God's Holy Prophet, John, who sees and hears this vision is 'in the Spirit' throughout this vision, you are not only calling Jesus, the Holy Prophet He sent from heaven, the Prophet John who recorded this vision, and God who gifted this vision, and ALL OF GOD'S HOLY PROPHETS, liars, you are also calling the Holy Spirit a liar, WHICH CANNOT BE FORGIVEN. Matthew 12:31,32 . No eternal life for you... Further confirmation of that fact follows... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:19 JESUS BLOTS YOUR NAME OUT OF HIS BOOK OF LIFE. Rev. 3:5 Rev. 21:27 Thus, JESUS IS GOD. Can you think of a more terrifying outcome to calling Jesus, God, a liar, then losing your eternal life?
@@clarawagon9019 You are posting the same message. Your comments does not proof anything. See my response on link: th-cam.com/video/Jnv_rYvhB5M/w-d-xo.html&feature=em-comments
I became an Adventist in 1978. They were preaching the Trinity. Aside from that, there is a little problem with Line of Truth Ministries understanding of God, you should be aware of. Matt Dooley of Line of Truth Ministries says....
"Jesus is as fully divine as His Father. Just because we believe Jesus' personality had a beginning does not mean that HE IS AN INFERIOR OR LESSER God. Nor does a hierarchy between the Father and Son IMPLY THAT THE SON IS INFERIOR AS WELL." Then he says in an article concerning Revelation 1:7,8 "I can see how some would apply verse 8 to Jesus, but we need to understand that John is the one speaking of Christ’s second coming, AND NOT CHRIST HIMSELF SPEAKING". So, first He says Jesus is not inferior to God, then He has a problem with God's Holy Prophet, John, telling you Jesus is God Almighty in Rev. 1:8, which makes Jesus equal to God! He's forced to interpret Rev. 1:7,8 that way, because the SDA pioneer, Uriah Smith, said that was not Jesus Almighty in Rev. 1:8. And Matt Dooley believes in studying the belief system of the SDA pioneers, which prevents him from hearing what the Holy Spirit has to say. That's God's Holy Prophet, John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation, speaking in Rev. 1:7,8. Matt Dooley, is not one of God's Holy Prophets. He has never been 'IN THE SPIRIT'! Uriah Smith is not one of God's Holy Prophets. Matt Dooley, does not have the credentials to challenge the plain statement of one of God's Holy Prophets, who was IN THE SPIRIT throughout the vision he calls 'the unveiling'. The only valid hierarchy I see, is this. 1. God 2. God's Holy Prophets 3. Matt Dooley Who is Matt Dooley compared to God's Holy Prophet John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation? Answer: A NOBODY..... And Matt Dooley has blasphemed the Holy Spirit, because God's Holy Prophet John was 'in the Spirit' throughout the Revelation. Matt Dooley speaks with forked tongue.
I'm quite sure that this Pastor, is unaware of the fact that in the vision given by God, Revelation in English, 'the unveiling' in the original Koine Greek, Jesus sends His 'angel' from heaven, Rev. 22:16 seeing clearly, 1 Corinthians 13:12,, to His Prophet John, and the 'angel' Jesus sent tells John, Jesus IS LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS, AND ALSO INFORMS US THAT HE IS ALSO ONE OF GOD'S HOLY PROPHETS. Rev. 22:6-9. That makes Jesus GOD. The Holy Spirit? The Testimony of Jesus IS THE SPIRIT....Rev. 19:10. I'm far more interested in what God's Prophet John has to say, after seeing and hearing Jesus' Prophet, sent from heaven, seeing clearly, 1 Corinthians 13:12, has to say. The Pastor here, and obviously the entire Line of Truth Ministries, do not see clearly. 1 Corinthians 13:12.
Part 1 of 3 Most people think that the book “EV” or “Evangelism” is written by Ellen White. LeRoy Froom is the authors and the book is written by Froom in 1946 which was 30 years after the death of Ellen White. It is alleged that Froom was a Catholic Priest before he entered the Adventist Church and some suspect him of being a Jesuit. He did and said things that an Adventist would never do. On the 14 December 1955, Leroy Froom in a letter to Reuben Figuhr wrote, “I was publicly denounced in the chapel at the Washington Missionary College by Dr. B. G. Wilkinson as the most dangerous man in this denomination.” This took place in the mid 1940's. I believe Dr. B.G. Wilkinson had very good reason for doing this much to the disgruntlement of Froom. With the intent to deceive, Froom placed quotes from Ellen White in his book where she had said “third person”, “three great powers” and “Heavenly trio.” But we have now seen that the “third person”, “third great power” and the third entity in the “Heavenly trio” all refer to the Spirit of Christ and not another being. Now you know how Froom managed to lead the entire SDA Church astray because people did not take the time to look at what else Ellen White wrote. She in fact wrote non-Trinitarian statements right through to her death which is very easy to confirm if people would only take the time to look. Many Adventists are in denial and claim that God would never allow error to get into His Church. But Ellen White in fact informed us that serious errors would enter the Adventist Church. You continually find such statements being perpetuated in the Adventist Church. God would never allow that to happen, or just because it is Catholic, that does not mean it is wrong, or Ellen White was a Trinitarian and then became non-Trinitarian and then became Trinitarian again. Many such lies are constantly being taught and perpetuated to keep Adventists trapped in a serious lie from Satan. Ellen White wrote this at least eleven years after it was claimed she had become a Trinitarian. “And now, after half a century of clear light from the Word as to what is truth, there are arising many false theories, to unsettle minds. But the evidence given in our early experience has the same force that it had then. The truth is the same as it ever has been, and not a pin or a pillar can be moved from the structure of truth. That which was sought for out of the Word in 1844, 1845, and 1846 remains the truth today in every particular.” - (E.G. White, Letter 38, 1906) It was in this three year period that the Pillars of our Faith were established. So more than 11 years after she supposedly became a Trinitarian, she states that the truths established in these years remained the same in every way still in 1906. So this is a declaration from her that the non-Trinitarian view they held in this period is still truth in every particular. This quote below was one of the main quotes Froom used to deceive the Church and if you read this quote with the mindset of a Trinitarian, you will conclude that the Holy Spirit is another being. Keep in mind that such a conclusion would contradict everything Ellen White wrote above. Note the two sources listed. “We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.” - (Ellen G. White, Sermons and Talks Volume 2, pp. 136, 137, 1899) - Evangelism p. 616.5 So if your mindset is that of a Trinitarian, you would conclude she is saying the Holy Spirit is another being. Here is the full quote which is actually referring to Christ. “The Lord [Jesus] says this because He knows it is for our good. He would build a wall around us, to keep us from transgression, so that His blessing and love may be bestowed on us in rich measure. This is the reason we have established a school here. The Lord [Jesus] instructed us that this was the place in which we should locate, and we have had every reason to think that we are in the right place. We have been brought together as a school, and we need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds, unseen by human eyes; that the Lord God is our Keeper and Helper. He hears every word we utter and knows every thought of the mind.” - (Ellen G. White, Sermons and Talks Volume 2, pp. 136, 137, 1899) You may like to reread the quotes on point 11 as a reminder of just how clearly Ellen White states that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ. If you read the above quote with the knowledge that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ as Ellen White revealed over and over again in every possible way, it no longer appears as a Trinitarian quote. Replace Holy Spirit with Christ by His Spirit and read the quote again according to what Ellen White teaches. “We need to realize that CHRIST by His SPIRIT, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.” - (Ellen G. White, Sermons and Talks Volume 2, pp. 136, 137, 1899) - Evangelism p. 616.5 And do not forget when reading this quote that Ellen White calls Christ by His Spirit a “person” that is of course “unseen.” “When trials overshadow the soul, remember the words of Christ, remember that He is an unseen presence in the PERSON of the Holy Spirit,” - (Ellen G. White, DG 185.2, 1897) So does it still look like a Trinitarian quote? Not a chance. Le Roy Froom was best known in the Seventh-day Adventist church for his work as editor for several church publications, a church historian, secretary of the General Conference Ministerial Association, and author of several books. "May I here make a frank, personal confession? When back between 1926 and 1928 I was asked by our leaders to give a series of studies on the Holy Spirit ... I found that aside from priceless leads found in the Spirit of Prophecy, there was practically nothing in our literature setting forth a sound, Biblical exposition in this tremendous field of study. There were no previous pathfinding books on the question in our literature." (LeRoy Froom, Movement of Destiny, p.322) Froom falsify the history about the original SDA pioneer position regarding the trinity. This revisionist history can be seen in the books Questions on Doctrine and Movement of Destiny. While Froom is not the originator of this tactic he is most certainly the key perpetrator and popularizer of it. The movement to adopt Trinitarianism and to become like the rest of the world was on. Ellen White predicted that "books of a new order would be written." In 1928 Le Roy Froom's book, The Coming of the Comforter, was published. In this book, Froom teaches the false doctrine of the Trinity and, as John Harvey Kellogg did before him, he uses Ellen White quotes to substantiate his position. This book was the result of studies that Froom had given during the 1928 North American Union Ministerial Institute. At the time of the writing, Froom did not mention that he received help from Babylon in producing his book. What does Babylon symbolize? Confusion, false doctrine, false worship, paganism. It was over forty years later before he would confess strangely in his book, Movement of Destiny, on page 322:
seeker, while I agree that Froom was dangerous to the SDA truth, what did Ellen White mean when she often wrote of the "Three highest powers of heaven"?
@@earlysda: Three Highest Powers, Three Great Powers, and Three Worthies of Heaven are all quotes where we find these phases used by Ellen White in the context of the Kellogg crisis. Ellen White is often said to have believed in the trinity. One quote that is used to substantiate this belief is where she speaks of the ‘three living persons of the heavenly trio’. This quote was popularised in Evangelism and also appears in In Heavenly Places and in the SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7a in the Appendix on the Godhead. In her lifetime, it appeared in Bible Training School of March 1, 1906 [titled ‘The Father, Son and Holy Ghost’] and Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 07. If we read and study what and how Sister White referred to three persons or personalities, or three great powers, she identifies the third as the Holy Spirit. But who does she say is the Holy Spirit? *“The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.”* - 14MR, p. 84.3 She also calls the Spirit of Christ a person with a distinct personality and hence three living persons or personalities. *’Remember the words of Christ, remember that He is the unseen presence in the person of the Holy Spirit.’* - Daughters of God, p. 185.2, Letter 124, March 7, 1897. This is how Ellen White penned the non-physical/omni presence: ‘Nothing can happen in any part of the universe without the knowledge *of Him who is omnipresent.’* ST July 14, 1881, par. 8 m.egwwritings.org/search?lang=en&query She continues and says *'Not a single event of human life is unknown to our Maker.'* [Ibid] She also wrote, *"They did not think that the subject of their conversation was walking by their side; FOR CHRIST REFERRED TO HIMSELF AS THOUGH HE WERE ANOTHER PERSON."* - E. White, Desire of Ages, p.800.1 This is why Paul could say, *‘Christ in you’, ‘Christ that liveth in me’, ‘let this mind be in you’,* etc So, the spirit of truth is the spirit of Jesus, our comforter. [John 16:13]. Jesus is speaking of Himself in the spirit as another person. We notice this also in John 14:16, 17 [Another comforter]. Jesus often spoke this way. [See John 17:3; 5:19, 23; 3:13-16; Matthew 24:30-37; 25:13, 31]. Froom gathered quotes from SOP and that is found in his book Evangelism. Most think that these quotes called “EV” or “Evangelism” are from a book written by Ellen White. But it was written by Froom in 1946 which was 30 years after the death of Ellen White. With the intent to deceive, Froom placed quotes from Ellen White in his book where she had said “third person”, “three great powers” and “Heavenly trio.” But the “third person”, “third great power” and the third entity in the “Heavenly trio” *all refer to the Spirit of Christ and not another being.* This is how Froom managed to lead the entire Adventist Church astray because many SDA does not take the time to look at what else Ellen White wrote. She in fact wrote non-Trinitarian statements right through to her death which is very easy to confirm if people would only take the time to look. In looking at what else she wrote we find the answer remains the same every time. She said the Comforter is the Spirit of Christ, The Spirit of truth is the Spirit of Christ, The third person is the Spirit of Christ, The third great power is the Spirit of Christ, The Holy Spirit given at Pentecost was the Spirit of Christ, The Holy Spirit Jesus breathed on His disciples was His own Spirit, The Holy Spirit Christ sent to represent Himself was His own Spirit, The Heavenly trio is the Father, Son, and Spirit of Christ, And *she reveals over and over again that there are only two distinct beings.* Any individual with a Trinitarian mindset assumes that the third power etc, must be a third being. Similarly, with the heavenly trio. But says who? A Trinity is ALWAYS three beings, but a trio is NOT. We need to let SOP explain SOP rather than assume. Ellen White taught that the Father and Son are one in Spirit and that the SPIRIT OF GOD comes to us through His only begotten Son. Thus, she called the HOLY SPIRIT the SPIRIT OF CHRIST. *“The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of CHRIST,* which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency,” - 14MR 84.3. *“We want the HOLY SPIRIT, which is JESUS CHRIST.”* - 9LtMs, Lt 66, 1894, par. 18 “but it is the leaven of *the SPIRIT of JESUS CHRIST, which is sent down from heaven, called the HOLY GHOST,”* - Ms36-1891, par. 42. Since Ellen White says the HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, then she has to be saying the “Heavenly Trio” is the FATHER, SON and the SPIRIT OF CHRIST or she would be contradicting herself. Hence, she did in fact write those exact words proving beyond any doubt this is who she called the Trio. So, letting SOP explain SOP, here is the “heavenly trio” according to Ellen White. “They have *ONE* God and *ONE* Saviour; and *ONE* Spirit-- *the Spirit of Christ* --is to bring unity into their ranks.” - 9T, 1909, 189.3. The third power = ONE + ONE + ONE = “the Spirit of Christ.” All of Ellen White’s “so-called” Trinitarian statements lack all the core elements of Trinitarianism. The core elements of the doctrine of the Trinity are oneness and distinctiveness. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one, yet three. It should go without saying that the physical unity of the three persons of the Godhead cannot be proven scripturally. *This is THE main problem in the trinity debate - meaning it is stated by the trinity doctrine that the three personalities physically constitute the ‘one God’ [that all three are of one indivisible substance/essence].* May God bless you in your studies as we await the soon appearance of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
@@earlysda: wouldn’t it be a contradiction to believe that the Holy Spirit is another third person and yet Inspiration does not include the Holy Spirit in the heavenly ranking as neither the first, second or third highest raking position? *Notice Jesus’ position prior the incarnation. Also Notice Lucifer was “next” to Christ compared with how Christ was “next” to God.* *“THE SON OF GOD WAS NEXT IN AUTHORITY TO THE GREAT LAWGIVER.* He knew that His life alone could be sufficient to ransom fallen man.” Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 2, p. 9.1; Also in Lift Him Up, p. 24.2. *Note:* The “great lawgiver” here refers to God the Father. “Such strange things have been repeating the works of Satan. He commenced war in heaven for the preeminence, worked with the angels until they were deceived, and concluded they would war against God. But the [loyal angels] would not yield the point *THAT CHRIST SHOULD HAVE THE PREEMINENCE NEXT TO GOD*. And there was war in heaven.” Ms90-1910, par.1. “Well, Lucifer, he was striving; he had glory in the heavenly courts, *BUT HE WAS STRIVING FOR CHRIST’S PLACE NEXT TO GOD. NEXT HE WANTED TO BE GOD,* but he could not obtain that.” 25LtMs, Ms 86, 1910-1915, par. 28 Note: Note that Lucifer's position in heaven had been *“next” in authority to the Son of God.* Lucifer being “next to” the Son of God most certainly means that he was the next in line in the hierarchy and the chain of command.* He was under Christ. This is a statement that most certainly places the Son above Him. Consequently, Christ being “next to” to God [Father] then certainly places the Son below the Father. *1st* = Father, *2nd* = Christ, *3rd = Lucifer [Satan] prior his fall* *The Battle in Lucifer’s Heart* "The angels joyfully acknowledged the supremacy of Christ and poured out their love and adoration. Lucifer bowed with them;* BUT IN HIS HEART THERE WAS A STRANGE, FIERCE CONFLICT. TRUTH AND LOYALTY WERE STRUGGLING AGAINST ENVY AND JEALOUSY.* The influence of the holy angels seemed for a time to carry him with them. As songs of praise ascended, the spirit of evil seemed vanquished; unutterable love thrilled his entire being; his soul went out in harmony with the sinless worshipers in love to the Father and the Son. But again his desire for supremacy returned, and envy of Christ was once more indulged. The high honors conferred upon Lucifer called forth no gratitude to his Creator. He gloried in his brightness and aspired to be equal with God. Angels delighted to execute his commands, and he was clothed with glory above them all. Yet the Son of God was exalted above him. “Why,” questioned this mighty angel, “should Christ have the supremacy?”" EP 11.1. "God bore long with Lucifer. The spirit of discontent was a new element, strange, unaccountable. *LUCIFER HIMSELF DID NOT SEE WHITHER HE WAS DRIFTING.* But such efforts as infinite love and wisdom only could devise were made to convince him of his error. He was made to see what would be the result of persisting in revolt." EP 12.3. *“PRIDE IN HIS OWN GLORY NOURISHED THE DESIRE FOR SUPREMACY.* The high honors conferred upon Lucifer were not appreciated as the gift of God and called forth no gratitude to the Creator. He gloried in his brightness and exaltation and aspired to be equal with God. He was beloved and reverenced by the heavenly host. Angels delighted to execute his commands, and he was clothed with wisdom and glory above them all. *Yet the Son of God was the acknowledged Sovereign of heaven, ONE IN POWER AND AUTHORITY WITH THE FATHER. IN ALL THE COUNCILS OF GOD, CHRIST WAS A PARTICIPANT, WHILE LUCIFER WAS NOT PERMITTED THUS TO ENTER INTO THE DIVINE PURPOSES.* “WHY,” QUESTIONED THIS MIGHTY ANGEL, “SHOULD CHRIST HAVE THE SUPREMACY? WHY IS HE THUS HONORED ABOVE LUCIFER?” GC 495.1. “Before the fall of Satan, the Father consulted his Son in regard to the formation of man. They purposed to make this world, and create beasts and living things upon it, and to make man in the image of God, to reign as a ruling monarch over every living thing which God should create. When Satan learned the purpose of God, *HE WAS ENVIOUS AT CHRIST, AND JEALOUS BECAUSE THE FATHER HAD NOT CONSULTED HIM IN REGARD TO THE CREATION OF MAN.”* 3SG 36.1 "CHRIST IS THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS FATHER'S PERSON, AND THE ANGELS COULD SEE IN THE SON A PERFECT REPRESENTATION OF GOD. *LUCIFER COVETED THE HONOR AND GLORY GIVEN TO CHRIST.* He became so self-exalted that he supposed that he could do anything he desired to do because of his high position as covering cherub, and he tried to obtain for himself the position given to Christ. But Lucifer fell. He was cast out of heaven; and now he works on human minds, tempting them to follow in his footsteps. He strives to fill minds with feelings of self-exaltation and to lead them to dishonor God by turning from their allegiance to the truth and inventing many things not after God’s order." - 18LtMs, Lt 55, 1903, par. 15 "Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong. He saw that “the Lord is righteous in all His ways, and holy in all His works” (Psalm 145:17), that the divine statutes are just and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. *HAD HE DONE THIS, HE MIGHT HAVE SAVED HIMSELF AND MANY ANGELS. IF HE HAD BEEN WILLING TO RETURN TO GOD,* satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God’s great plan, *HE WOULD HAVE BEEN REINSTATED IN HIS OFFICE.* The time had come for a final decision; he must yield to the divine sovereignty or place himself in open rebellion. He nearly reached the decision to return, BUT PRIDE FORBADE HIM. It was too great a sacrifice for one who had been so highly honored to confess that he had been in error!" EP 12.4 "Lucifer pointed to the LONG-SUFFERING OF GOD AS AN EVIDENCE of his own superiority, an indication that the King of the universe would yet accede to his terms. If the angels would stand firmly with him, he declared, they could yet gain all that they desired. He fully committed himself to the great controversy against his Maker. *THUS IT WAS THAT LUCIFER, THE LIGHT BEARER," BECAME SATAN,* “the adversary” of God and holy beings." EP 13.1 “SATAN, THE CHIEF OF THE FALLEN ANGELS, once had an exalted position in Heaven. *HE WAS NEXT IN HONOR TO CHRIST.”* Ellen White, Review & Herald, Feb. 24, 1874 “They looked with amazement upon the devices of Satan against the divine Son of God. They saw that he who had only been SECOND TO JESUS IN POWER AND GLORY had fallen so low that he could influence men to hunt the steps of Christ from city to city.” ST November 25, 1889, par. 1; TA 191.1. “Was not Satan the light-bearer, the sharer of God’s glory in heaven, and *NEXT TO JESUS IN POWER AND MAJESTY?”* RH November 17, 1891, par. 3 “Satan had been Lucifer, the light-bearer, the sharer of God’s glory in heaven, and *SECOND TO JESUS AND MAJESTY.”* - BEcho November 1, 1892, par. 3 “SPEAKING OF SATAN, our Lord says that 'he abode not in the truth.' He was once the covering cherub, glorious in beauty and holiness. *HE WAS NEXT TO CHRIST IN EXALTATION AND CHARACTER.* It was with Satan that self-exaltation had its origin. He became jealous of Christ, and falsely accused him, and then laid blame upon the Father. *HE WAS ENVIOUS OF THE POSITION THAT WAS HELD BY CHRIST AND THE FATHER,* and he turned from his allegiance to the Commander of heaven and lost his high and holy estate.” - Ellen White, Review & Herald, Oct. 22, 1895. “But there was one that chose to pervert this freedom. Sin originated with him *[SATAN] who, NEXT TO CHRIST, HAD BEEN MOST HONORED OF GOD* and who stood highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven.” -The Great Controversy, 1911 ed., p. 493 (bracket supplied) So, If Ellen White was Trinitarian as so many are claiming, then the heavenly hierarchy should at least read as follows: God the Father. *1st* = God the Son = Christ *2nd* God the Holy Spirit 3rd and then Lucifer [Satan] prior his fall* 4th. *WE CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE IN ELLEN WHITES WRITINGS NEITHER IS IT FOUND IN THE BIBLE.*
@@seekertruth3577 Seeker, so you are saying that Jesus told his disciples to baptize believers in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Son's spirit. . That is odd. . Your definition of "Trinity" is far removed from what the Bible and SOP teach, and from what most Protestants believe today. . Would you say you believe in the "Godhead"?
@@earlysda: Friend, I suggest you study more and do proper research instead of being judgmental. Besides, you have no clue about the historical use of the phrase person in the SDA Church. History testifies that up until the latter part of the fourth century, the preponderant belief of the true followers of God was not in a Triune God. It was only when a Roman Emperor issued a series of edicts enforced by threats and punishment that Trinitarianism began to take hold within Christianity. In a recent book on the Trinity, Catholic theologian Karl Rahner recognizes that theologians in the past have been *"...embarrassed by the simple fact that in reality the Scriptures do not explicitly present a doctrine of the 'imminent'* Trinity (even John's prologue is no such doctrine)" (The Trinity, p. 22). (Author's emphasis.) *“…primitive Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds of the early church”* - New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol. 2, 1976, p. 84, “God” “The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the NT” - The Harper Collins Bible Dictionary, 1996, “Trinity”. *“In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin:* "substance", "person" or "hypostasis", "relation" and so on. In doing this, she did not submit the faith to human wisdom, but gave a new and unprecedented meaning to these terms, which from then on would be used to signify an ineffable mystery, "infinitely beyond all that we can humanly understand". - Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 151 Source: www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/catechism/cat_view.cfm?recnum=608 *Please find below statements from the proponents of the Trinity heresy. Please read what it so clearly says about this trinity doctrine.* “Where though in Scripture can be found such an idea? *The answer is, it cannot be found. This is because it is not there. It is purely supposition (philosophical speculation). This is why the trinity doctrine is only an assumed doctrine.* This is even duly recognized in our own denominational handbook of theology: “The concept of the Trinity, *namely the IDEA THAT THE THREE ARE ONE, IS NOT EXPLICITLY STATED BUT ONLY ASSUMED.”* - Fernando L. Canale, The Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopaedia, Volume 12, page 138, ‘Doctrine of God’ The dictionary defines the word assume as follows: *Supposed to be the case, without proof.* -- *Synonyms:* presume, surmise, *take for granted.* *The Adventist Review 7-30-1981 Special Issue on Bible Doctrines* - The Trinity was explained one year after it was voted as an official doctrine of the church (which was in 1980; initially composed of 27 fundamental beliefs). *It states,* "While no single scriptural passage states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, *it is assumed* as a fact by Bible writers... Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity." (p. 4) [Adventist Review, Vol 158, No. 31, p.4. *Richard Rice says,* "The role of the trinity in a doctrine of God *always raises questions.* One reason is that the word itself does not appear in the Bible, nor is there any clear statement of the idea. But the *Bible does set the stage* for its formulation, and the concept represents a development of biblical claims and concepts. So even though *the doctrine of the trinity is not part of what the Bible itself says about God,* it is part of what the church must say *to safeguard the biblical view of God."* - Richard Rice, The Reign of God, An Introduction to Christian Theology from a Seventh-day Adventist Perspective’, page 89, 'A constructive proposal', 1985. Notice Rice says, *“the doctrine of the trinity is not part of what the Bible itself says about God” “nor is there any clear statement of the IDEA”* yet he adds that *“to safeguard the biblical view of God”* - *THE CHURCH HAD TO FORMULATE THIS TEACHING.* This is what is called the “law of contradiction” meaning “a thing cannot at the same time both be and not be of a specified kind or in a specified manner. Then he says, *“the Bible does set the stage”* for the formulation of the trinity doctrine. This again is the admittance that the trinity doctrine is extra-canonical, meaning its existence is not contained in the canon of Scripture. Also, don’t miss the point Rice is making. He says the doctrine of the trinity is what *“the church must say”* about God. It is not what the Bible says about God. As far as most Seventh-day Adventists are concerned, the question “Is the Holy Spirit a person” may at first seem very easy to answer, particularly as Ellen White has said that He is a person, but as I have already clearly pointed out to you from Ellen White's writings that the HS is not a person but rather the Spirit of, or the omnipresence of God or Christ. *The word PERSON also refers to the non-physical aspect of an individual; his character, personality.* The Holy Spirit is the unseen person of the Lord Jesus. [2 Cor. 3:17] and NOT some other thirds being called god the holy spirit. *“The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of CHRIST; it is His representative.”* - Ellen G. White, 13MR 313.3, 1895. The Holy Spirit is the “one” Spirit of the Father and Son. This is how we have access to the Father through Christ who is the “one” mediator between God and man. As Paul wrote, Ephesians 2:18 “For through him [Christ] we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.” This is why Ellen White so frequently calls the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ even though it is also the Spirit of His Father. As Christ said, Matthew 28:20 “lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”. [How is Christ with us? Through His Holy Spirit]. *“CHRIST has left HIS Holy Spirit* to be HIS representative in the world, to give celestial aid to every hungering, thirsting soul.” - Ellen G. White, Lt84, October 22, 1895. “CHRIST came to our world, but the world could not endure His purity. *He has gone to His Father, but HE has sent HIS HOLY SPIRIT to represent HIM in the world till he shall come again.”* - Ellen G. White, Ms1, January 11, 1897. Another quote from Inspiration, “While *JESUS* ministers in the sanctuary above, *HE* is still *by HIS SPIRIT* the minister of the church on earth. HE is withdrawn from the eye of sense, but HIS parting promise is fulfilled, *“Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.”* Matthew 28:20. While *HE* delegates *HIS power* to inferior ministers, *HIS energizing presence* is still with HIS church.” - Homeward Bound 328.5 [Desire of Ages, p. 166,2]. “Cumbered with humanity, *CHRIST* could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, *go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is [Christ] HIMSELF,* divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. *HE would represent Himself as present in all places by HIS Holy Spirit,* as the Omnipresent.” - (Ellen G. White, Lt119, February 18, 1895). From the statements above we can confirm that the Holy Spirit is Christs' Spirit and hence His Spirit represents Himself and is not a third being. *An individual is someone composed of a physical form that we can recognize by sight and one who also possesses a non-physical entity, the spirit, which we recognize to be the person, personality, or character of that individual.* I've given you sufficient information from the pen of Inspiration. Trinity is defined as the state of being three. It is the doctrine of the trinity that is humanly devised and a complete heresy. Also, nobody should associate Trinity with Godhead. Godhead is not a committee of members.
The SDA pastor is not correct that the trinity or triune God is not biblical. " As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”- Matthew 3:13-17. All three are indicated present and by definition, this makes the Trinity a biblical model. Sorry but you interviewed a false teacher.
At the baptism God spake „This is my Son, whom I love.“ and the Spirit descended from the Father onto the Son illustrating that he really is the Son who received His life from His Father. I can not understand how this bible story should prove that Jesus was never begotten of the Father.
@@mattisfichte1730 Let's not forget that, "begotten", referring to the Son of God, is NOT PRESENT in the Aramaic Versions of the New Testament, which I believe are more reliable than the Greek "original", but only "The Unique Son of God", and also let's remind ourselves that in Christ's case, He now has two natures, one eternal, and one "incarnated" as of two millenia ago, and as of eternity planned as such. Also much care should be exercised and not confuse some references regarding to either of His natures. Yes, the word Trinity is totally absent in the Scriptures, but the concept is abundantly present in both Old and New Testaments. From the VERY START we see God in the Scriptures as coming in the plural form, and The Holy Spirit is clearly present. The warning recorded in John 8:24 should be taken extremely serious...
@@BvVb2099 Thanks for your thoughts. Aramaic Versions of NT: Do I understand you correctly that you doubt the divine inspiration behind the word monogenes? John lived and worked in Greek language areas. His epistles in Revelation cpt. 2 and 3 are addressed to greek speaking churches in Asia Minor. His style of writing is very Greek. I wouldn't cast doubt on the Greek original texts to maintain my theological position. Two natures of Christ: The term „Son of God" refers to the divine nature of Christ, not his human nature, for which Jesus usually used the term „Son of Man“. That's apparent when going through the the passages where the terms occur. Elohim Plural: This is not a proof for the concept of the Trinity. The same term is also applied to Moses, a single person, in Ex 7:1. The plural functions here as indicator of majesty. The same grammatical use of the Hebrew plural can be found in Gen 42:30 (Josef is "lords" of the land) and Is 19:4 (Nebuchadnezzar is a cruel "lords"). In fact, it is not only the term, but also the concept of the Trinity that lacks biblical support. There is not a single verse teaching that doctrine - only hints that require additional interpretation can be brought forward.
// God's Word Is The KJV Bible The Recived Text....And In It Is Pentecost Where The Holy Spirit Descended On Belivers And Apostles....Christ Himself Said I Will Send The Comforter .... If You Don't Believe The Words Of The Bible And Christ Then Why Are You Calling Yourself A Christian ??
And here's the issue for the SDA church. If Ellen White was non-tranitarian and that's considered an heresy than she is not a profitist. Or the church has gone into an apostasy like the other churches.
Ellen G. White was non-trinitarian. Sadly , the SDA church has gone astray. Here is a link below to watch a good sermon in this topic: th-cam.com/video/rfOBg39tv2M/w-d-xo.html
@ Carson LLANNIGUEZ: YOU said, "Would you rather worship a Roman Catholic Creed or the One God which is in heaven?" That's a very good question that you should ask yourself, because that's what exactly the anti-trinitarians teach and spreading around! You should not bear false witness (Ex. 20:16), brother. But who really is teaching the Catholic Trinity error? The fact is, its the anti-trinitarians who are teaching and promoting the counterfeit Catholic trinity today, and trying to deceive the members of God's Remnant church. You say that SDA pioneers opposed the Catholic Trinity. That's right. So do we as God's Remnant Church today! For anyone to believe that at some time in eternity, the Father-God literally gave birth to, or generated, reproduced, produced, cloned, created, split off etc., a Son out of His own Being, is believing in the Trinity doctrine of Catholicism which is founded upon the mysteries of Babylon! This is just typical Jesuit thinking. Unfortunately, modern anti-trinitarians among us have embraced the same conclusion, that there is only one Being who is the eternal God. What is the Catholic Trinity? Roman Catholicism teaches that the Son comes out of the Father (Christ is not eternal) and the Holy Spirit comes from both; and Holy Spirit is no- separate person-and yet there is only one God! There is no Son apart from the Father and no Holy Spirit apart from both. This peculiar doctrine stems from Arian heresy. Here's official Catholic statements of proofs: "The SON proceeds from the Father ; the HOLY GHOST proceeds from the FATHER and the SON." The Catholic Encycopedia, 1914 Edition, art. “Holy Ghost.”. “The Son proceeds from the Father by generation (and generation means the process of begetting offspring, reproduction, or giving birth to)...” The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p 31 by Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., Imprimatur - September 16, 1957. ‘The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Christ. He is also the Spirit of the Father. Thus St. Augustine argues (in Joan, tr. Xcix, 6, 7 in P.L., XXXV, 188(ibid. n. 691).’ (The Catholic Encycopedia, 1914 Edition, art. “Holy Ghost.”). “He [the Holy Spirit] proceeds, not by way of generation, but by way of spiration, from the Father and the Son together, as from a single principle. Such is the belief the Catholic faith demands.”-The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1914 Edition, art. “Holy Ghost.” “The mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of Catholic faith. Upon it are based all the other teachings of the Church.”-Ibid, p. 16. “Unless [people] keep this Faith whole and undefiled, without doubt, they shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic faith is this: We worship one God in Trinity.” -A Practical Catholic Dictionary, p. 32.
Shelton, you do not know your own belief sir, or the pioneers of our denomination. I will paste a few quotes from our beloved pioneers: "The father of Jesus is greater than his son in that he was first". “He who was born in the form of God took the form of man” “Christ is the only literal Son of God. “The only begotten of the Father.” “The Scriptures nowhere speak of Christ as a created being, but on the contrary plainly state that he was begotten of the Father.” “God alone is without beginning. At the earliest epoch when a beginning could be, - a period so remote that to finite minds it is essentially eternity, - appeared the Word. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1. This is enough to make a point
@ Carson LLANIGUEZ in response to your comment: YOU said, "There is one God and not three in one. Do you find that anywhere in the Bible?" You say there's only "One God," that's the Father, then, you turn around and tell us there are TWO GODS, not just one! Anti-trinitarians say the Father is the Almighty, one true God, then, Jesus is to be a lesser/inferior god! So you have two gods, one true God, and one lesser/ inferior god, that you say has a beginning somewhere in the eternity past. Now this is where this (binitarian) god teaching contradicts with Bible on this subject, for Isaiah says 'no god was form either before or after God,' (Isaiah 43:10) and Jesus certainly could not be a lessser/inferior SECOND god! This is where the Arian heresy crumbles down! God cannot be created, derived, borrowed or brought forth from another god! Such teachings not belongs in Christian faith but it exists only in pagan religions such as Hindus, Buddhists, and old Greek Mythology. GOD, means IS SELF-EXISTENT in the Bible (Is. 43:10), if God is not self-existent, He is not God at all! In Christianity there are no big Gods, and little gods, that you will find in paganism such as Hinduism that claims millions of gods. The God has no beginning (origin) or end! Therefore, God is Uncreated, Underived and Unborrowed. Jesus Christ claims that He is "I AM THAT I AM, meaning. The Bible God is Yahweh. That means, "The Eternal presence"!!
According to the First Commandment of the Moral , eternal Law of God, we are to worship only the One Being & Creator of the whole Universe - the same One who descended upon Mount Sinai and spoke the words from Exodus 20:2-3 ! You and me are strictly FORBIDDEN to worship in any way , shape or form ANY other Deity than the One who spoke this immutable commandment ! THUS we are compelled to conclude: 1) There is only One true living God - so only One divine Being ! He is an eternal , infinite , almighty Spirit of perfect love and justice ! (Deuteronomy 6:4) 2) Inside this Spirit there are Three Minds / Persons who each fully shares all the prerogatives of God: Father , Son and Holy Spirit (1 John 5:7) 3) The Second Mind / Person of the One Being of God BECAME the "only begotten Son of God" in His humanity - through THE VIRGIN BIRTH ! Luke 1:35 EXPLAINS WHY Jesus is called "the Son of God" ! BEFORE Incarnation , our Saviour existed as "the Angel of the Lord" and He was called Michael - the invincible Commander of all angels of God ! AFTER Incarnation, He became the Son of Man and Son of God and was called Jesus - simply because His mother was human and He did not have a biological father , instead the Heavenly Father transferred His Person into the womb of virgin Mary. The term "the Holy Spirit" refers to both the One Being of God (that which God is "made up" of/ "composed" of, namely "SPIRIT" - as John 4:24 says: "God is spirit") AND to the third coequal coeternal Person of that Being: John 14:16,17,26.
According to the only human source in scripture that has seen God face to face CLEARLY, in heaven.....Jesus is GOD. The following involves the Testimony of the only human source in all of the Bible that has seen God FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN. He sees clearly. YOU DON'T, I DON'T, and no one in scripture does, with the exception of the one about to be shown to you. You are contradicting the plain testimony of the only human source recorded in the Bible, who has seen God face to face clearly, in heaven, SENT BY JESUS FROM HEAVEN!!! 1 Corinthians 13:12
JESUS SENT HIS 'angel' , 'messenger' in the Koine Greek of the Revelation, from heaven, where he has seen God face to face, CLEARLY, to the Prophet John. Rev. 22:16 That 'angel' JESUS SENT, calls Jesus WHO SENT HIM, LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS! And that 'angel' JESUS SENT, tells the Holy Prophet John, that He also is one of God's Holy Prophets! Rev. 22:6-9. Now should you choose not to believe Jesus, God's Holy Prophet John who recorded this vision, and God's Holy Prophet sent from heaven seeing clearly, THE ONLY HUMAN SEEING GOD CLEARLY FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN.... Well, there are some negative eternal consequences to consider. Since God's Holy Prophet, John, who sees and hears this vision is 'in the Spirit' throughout this vision, you are not only calling Jesus, the Holy Prophet He sent from heaven, the Prophet John who recorded this vision, and God who gifted this vision, and ALL OF GOD'S HOLY PROPHETS, liars, you are also calling the Holy Spirit a liar, WHICH CANNOT BE FORGIVEN. Matthew 12:31,32 . No eternal life for you... Further confirmation of that fact follows... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:19 JESUS BLOTS YOUR NAME OUT OF HIS BOOK OF LIFE. Rev. 3:5 Rev. 21:27 Thus, JESUS IS GOD. Can you think of a more terrifying outcome to calling Jesus, God, a liar, then losing your eternal life?
@@clarawagon9019 Dear sister in Christ, do you really , seriously believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Creator Himself incarnate? The Second Person of the Godhead? The Lord God of Deuteronomy 6:4? The "everlasting Father"/literal Creator of Time itself from Isaiah 9:6 ?... ... Because if yes , than... HALLELUJAH !!! SO DO I !!! I am afraid you must have misunderstood me 🤣🤣🤣 ... "The One" I mentioned in my comment above is the TRIUNE / TRI-PERSONAL Being of the One true living God almighty ! The One Being Who Christ Jesus is the Second Person of (perfectly coequal & coeternal with the Father and the Spirit) ! The only reason I spoke about the triune God in His Unity (aka as being "the One") is because , sadly , the airheads in the video above worship no less than TWO gods (a major god , eternal, and a minor one , created) - none of which have anything to do with the utterly UNIQUE and triune Lord of the Holy Scriptures ...
@ Carson: "We need not think that because our fathers did a certain way, and died happy, we may follow in their footsteps, and be accepted in rendering the same service, and doing the same works, that they did. We have had more light than they had in their day; and if we would be accepted of God, we must be as faithful in obeying the light and walking in it as they were in receiving and obeying the light that God sent to them. We must accept and improve the light that shines upon our pathway, as faithfully as they accepted and improved the light that fell upon their pathway in their generation. We shall be judged according to the light that shines into the soul-temple in our day; and if we follow the light, we shall be free men and women in Christ Jesus." Ellen White, The Review and Herald, March 25, 1902 "Indeed, we have been told: "New Light will ever be revealed on the word of God to him who is in living connection with the Sun of righteousness . . . The diligent seeker for truth will find precious rays of light yet to shine forth from the Word of God . . . Many gems are yet scattered that are to be gathered together to become the property of the remnant people of God . . . Let no one come to the conclusion that there is no more truth to be revealed . . . There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed . . . We are not safe when we take the position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth." (Counsels on Sabbath School Work, p. 34). "The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people is not proof that our ideas are infallible." (RH, December 20, 1892). "We cannot hold that a position once taken, an idea once advocated, is not, under any circumstances, to be relinquished. There is but One Who is infallible -- He Who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life." (TM, 105). "Investigation of every point that has been received as truth will repay the searcher: He will find precious gems. And in closely investigating every jot and tittle which we think is established truth, in comparing Scripture with Scripture, we may discover errors in our interpretation of Scripture." (RH, July 10, 1889). "Believing a lie will not put any one of us in the way of being sanctified. Should all the ministers in the world tell us that we were safe in disobeying a single precept of the holy standard of righteousness, it would not lessen our obligations, nor make our guilt less, if we reject a plain “Thou shalt” or “Thou shalt not.” Ellen White, The Review and Herald, March 25, 1902
Shelton Donald I know whom I worship is the Only True God, the Father, and His only begotten Son. I don’t have any other gods brother beside my Father in heaven.
Shelton, while you are quoting you might as well quote sister Ellen staying that our pillars on who is Christ are never to be removed and that her doctrine has not changed one iota in the past fifty years.
The God the Creator Jesus Christ is an all the Bible new testament old testament everywhere matter of fact you can come to know God do the Creator only
God the Creator Creator God Jesus Christ the Creator God Jesus Christ wrote the Ten Commandments on the table of stone are all the Commandments are all the Commandments to be kept important what about the one that's foul shalt not kill what what about abortion is that a sin
Even when I think I agree with what someone is saying, I find dogmatism decidedly unattractive. That having been said, there have been several famous people who have denied that three persons can be one God or vice versa. My illustration doesn’t prove a thing, except that one of something can be three and three of something can be one. When my dad taught me to tune pianos, he taught me to lay the temperament by ear. The next step was to tune the octaves--one of the strings of each note. The next step was called, “tuning the unisons”. In the treble register of almost all pianos, each note is comprised of three strings. When the other two strings are properly tuned to the one that has already been tuned, the three act in “unison”. (Note that this is a different word with a different meaning than the word, “harmony”.) The vibrations of each string affect the vibrations of each of the other stings of that one note so that the three vibrate at exactly the same rate. Tuning the unisons in the treble register is called, “tuning the triunisons”. It is not appropriate to refer to a note in the treble register as three notes, although the note is comprised of three strings. And it is not appropriate to refer to the three strings as one string, although the three strings comprise only one note. For me to think of someone as a Christian does not require that he understand the nature of God exactly as I do but, in my view, it is not appropriate to refer to the creator as three Gods, although he is comprised of three persons. And I avoid referring to God as a person, although it is my understanding of the Bible that three divine persons comprise one God. I take the additional precaution of not using the word, “they”, when referring to any two or all three of those divine persons. In those situations, I prefer to use the word, “he”. I think it was silly for Christians to argue about whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father and the Son. Likewise I think it is silly for Adventists to argue about whether it is appropriate to use the word “trinity” to describe the creator. I have spoken with several people (other than adventists) who object to the doctrine of the trinity - including unitarians and LdS polytheists. In each case their objections seemed to be based on the premise that one of something cannot possibly also be three of something. I assume that those few adventist pioneers who objected to their understanding of the doctrine of the trinity had what they thought were good reasons for objecting. But can someone please explain what aspect of that doctrine they found objectionable?
If you sincerely want to know what Ellen White and the 1st gen pioneers who via the spirit laid down the foundational pillars of SDAism actually are I suggest reading several PDF books on Revelation 1412.org revelation1412.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/the-living-voice-of-the-lords-witnesses.pdf revelation1412.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/the-godhead-black-white-print-clr.pdf Blessings to you.
@@disccattopdog9134 Let's not forget that, "begotten", referring to the Son of God, is NOT PRESENT in the Aramaic Versions of the New Testament, which I believe are more reliable than the Greek "original", but only "The Unique Son of God", and also let's remind ourselves that in Christ's case, He now has two natures, one eternal, and one "incarnated" as of two millenia ago, and as of eternity planned as such. Also much care should be exercised and not confuse some references regarding to either of His natures. Yes, the word Trinity is totally absent in the Scriptures, but the concept is abundantly present in both Old and New Testaments. From the VERY START we see God in the Scriptures as coming in the plural form, and The Holy Spirit is clearly present. The warning recorded in John 8:24 should be taken extremely serious...
Those that discount the Son as not God have shown yourselves out of harmony with scriptures, namely Hebrews 1:8-10. The Father is the only true God in context as the Father. The Son is the only true God in context as the Son. 1 John 5:20. Then we have the message in John 4:24 that tells us "God is a Spirit" We also have Jesus telling us to baptised in the name of three powers of heaven to the disciples. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
John 17:3 states otherwise brother. Also we behold God in the face of Jesus Christ, yet no man hath seen God. The life that Jesus revealed is the revelation of God for Jesus is the express image of His person as the same was in the beginning with God. Sister White wrote through the Spirit of Prophecy that the surrender of Christ was so complete that only the Father was revealed in Him. If you take away the Son of God, you also take away the surrender that we are meant to behold that we may be changed into His likeness as one with God (not because we are one being) but one is "nature, in character and in purpose". May the Lord our God lead you into all truth.
@@ryanlapitan3948 Have you not noticed that the Word came in the form of God as revealed in Phil 2:6? He was God and came in the form of God for His duration on earth as He prayed to the Father on the cross to return His glory that He once had with the Father before the incarnation. Sister White also says "the only begotten Son of the Father was truly God in infinity, but not in personality." When the Word came at the incarnation He wasn't truly God but in the form of God otherwise we would not have survived the brightness of His glory. Therefore one must conclude that the Son never was begotten in heaven for He was truly God in infinity! He existed from everlasting as Micah 5:2 says. John 17:3 is not denying that Christ is not God. On the contrary, we are to know the Father (God) and the Son (God, according to the Father Hebrews 1:8-10) in order to receive eternal life. Of course God is seen in Christ for He represented the Father. He said, see me, see the Father. He is just like the Father and is in the Father and the Father is in Him. While the Son represented the Father, He was no doubt God as Phil 2:6 confirms, although in the form of God. Coming in the form of a servant it was His purpose to rely on the Father and set an example for us. One must remember also that Christ said, the Father and I are one. John 10:30. I believe He is saying that He is of the same substance and has the same attributes of God. One in power and authority with the Father. It was a claim of equality with the Father as Paul mentions in Phil 2:6.
@@chocolate44ly Jesus said you have seen me, you have seen the Father. In His life Jesus revealed the Father to us in His life of obedience to the will of God the Father. (John 12:44,45) Jesus is God because He came forth from God. "As the Father hath life in Himself, so He giveth the Son to have life in Himself" that's the same "original, unborrowed and underived" life that is in the Father which He gave to Jesus. In the book steps to Christ it says everything the Father hath He gave to His Son and Jesus came to give us this life. This is why it pleased the Father that all the fullness of Him dwell bodily, as Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. Not because He is the One true God but that His life in the flesh is the revelation of that One true God which is His Father and He fulfilled the life that was pleasing to Him. This is the eternal life we are to behold. No man cometh to the Father but by the Lord Jesus and He gave us the Spirit of being one with the Father. " My words, they are spirit and they are life" so also it can be said that no-one comes to me unless the Father draws Him. Therefore God is our Saviour. And Jesus is the perfect revelation of His love for it "is written" that "God is love." 1 John 4:9-10 KJVS In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. [10] Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Let God be true in Jesus Christ His only begotten Son! (see also Proverbs 8:22) PS Hebrews 1 is talking about God exalting His Son, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Key verse: John 1:18 God bless you my brother in Christ.
@@ryanlapitan3948 I feel sadden hearing the expression that the Son of God is only God because He came forth from God. He simply came from the Father's presence and this is how you understand that Christ is God? I reject also your quote of Proverbs 8:22 as the Saviour being begotten in heaven, believing He came into existence in heaven by the Father creating Him. God cannot be created as I understand it. He is the creator! And what of the quote I gave you of the only begotten Son of the Father being truly God in infinity? What of Isa 9:6 and Isa 7:14. Unto us a son is given. It's talking about Christ's incarnation. He was begotten of Mary and the Holy Spirit. As I said in the last post, Jesus sacrifice His glory and receive all things from Father on earth but in reality Christ says, all things that the Father has, I own. John 16. Jesus isn't no puppet of the Father, He is actually God. 1 John 5:20. John 1:1-3,14 Hebrews 1:8-10. John 10:30. and He is from everlasting. -"But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding his pre-existence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with his Father. From everlasting he was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted him, were to be blessed. "The Word was with God, and the Word was God." Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God."-The Review and Herald, April 5, 1906.
@@chocolate44ly unto us a Son is given. The scripture says it like this, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son" meaning Jesus was already begotten before He was given. He was first the Son of God. We can only behold God in the face of Jesus. This is the way God glorified His Son in the beginning. Jesus is the first born of all creation and by no means not part of that creation because He was begotten (born) of God. Sister White plainly states that solemn and most beautiful truth. Patriachs and Prophets The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficence. He had an associate-a co-worker who could appreciate His purposes, and could share His joy in giving happiness to created beings. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” John 1:1, 2. Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father-one in nature, in character, in purpose-the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6. His “goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” Micah 5:2. And the Son of God declares concerning Himself: “The Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting.... When He appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him.” Proverbs 8:22-30. PP 34.1 The Father wrought by His Son in the creation of all heavenly beings. “By Him were all things created, ... whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him.” Colossians 1:16. Angels are God's ministers, radiant with the light ever flowing from His presence and speeding on rapid wing to execute His will. But the Son, the anointed of God, the “express image of His person,” “the brightness of His glory,” “upholding all things by the word of His power,” holds supremacy over them all. Hebrews 1:3. “A glorious high throne from the beginning,” was the place of His sanctuary (Jeremiah 17:12); “a scepter of righteousness,” the scepter of His kingdom. Hebrews 1:8. “Honor and majesty are before Him: strength and beauty are in His sanctuary.” Psalm 96:6. Mercy and truth go before His face. Psalm 89:14. In Christ we behold God in fullness. It's because of this relationship, that we behold the identity of God and His only begotten Son and can called sons and daughters of God as Christ restores the image of God in us, the image that He created because Christ, "the wisdom of God and the power of God". We glorify the Father by believing the testimony of His Son. Please Barry, don't be deceived or deceive yourself by not believing the testimony of Jesus Christ. The oneness they shared is the way we too can be one with the Father, because when we are one with Christ, we know that He was one with the Father in "nature, character and purpose. The only being that can enter into the counsel.and purposes of God" This is why Satan was jealous of Christ in the beginning. Verily it was the position of Christ as a Being who shared the same glory with the Father, but was not one with Him in being. You will see that if you let God be true, the error is in us, as we try to rationalise His wisdom with our own. Please read this chapter in Patriachs and Prophets concerning who's work we are doing if we deny the Sonship of Jesus the only begotten Son of God, the only one who came to reveal Him in Spirit and in truth. As revealed also in the parable of the ruler and the vinedressers and fulfilled in the first advent of the Lord Jesus. There is nothing new brother. And coveting the glory with which the infinite Father had invested His Son, this prince of angels aspired to power that was the prerogative of Christ alone. PP 35.2 Now the perfect harmony of heaven was broken. Lucifer's disposition to serve himself instead of his Creator aroused a feeling of apprehension when observed by those who considered that the glory of God should be supreme. In heavenly council the angels pleaded with Lucifer. The Son of God presented before him the greatness, the goodness, and the justice of the Creator, and the sacred, unchanging nature of His law. God Himself had established the order of heaven; and in departing from it, Lucifer would dishonor his Maker and bring ruin upon himself. But the warning, given in infinite love and mercy, only aroused a spirit of resistance. Lucifer allowed his jealousy of Christ to prevail, and became the more determined. PP 35.3 To dispute the supremacy of the Son of God, thus impeaching the wisdom and love of the Creator, had become the purpose of this prince of angels. To this object he was about to bend the energies of that master mind, which, next to Christ's, was first among the hosts of God. But He who would have the will of all His creatures free, left none unguarded to the bewildering sophistry by which rebellion would seek to justify itself. Before the great contest should open, all were to have a clear presentation of His will, whose wisdom and goodness were the spring of all their joy. PP 36.1 The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both.
For a better understanding of the Adventist Pioneer position on the Godhead, check out this series called "The Final Protest." th-cam.com/video/Hde02IR4gh0/w-d-xo.html
It is sad that this video presents absolutely false information. The "retired minister" (interviewed in the video) makes baseless claims against the SDA church for example, he says that church interprets differently the books of Revelation and the Daniel but he failed to tell what have they "interpreted...differently"! He says the church accept Ordain Women, but that's not true because the SDA GC do not accept the women ordination, although there's a group who are going against GC church policy and making a rebellion among the Adventists, (ironically I have never seen an anti-trinitarian ever engage with any Woman ordination promotor in any website anywhere!
These are no baseless claims, these are realities in our German Union Conferences. He is sharing his perspective as a pastor who was employed at the German Conference.
@@mattisfichte1730 The dear retired pastor is standing on a solid foundation of Jesus. and on the Fundamental Principles established by Mrs White and the Pioneers. i am not a German but I can see the comparison of the fundamental beliefs compiled by men (scholars of the BRI) vs the Fundamental Principles; which can be accessed through the SDA archives. SDA should search diligently the Holy Scriptures and from Genesis to Revelation, none other than God and His Only Begotten Son is mentioned. Det. 6:4, John 3:16, John 17:3 many more texts. That there is One True God! Jesus ia also God because His Father is God. Phil 2:6 Who, being God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God....John 14:28....I go unto the Father: for my father is greater than I. Thank you for standing for the true servant of God!
@@mattisfichte1730 People get older with their wrong concepts and that does not means they are right! I know many old retired pastors who had false beliefs and teaching many errors, and some never will change no matter how the truth will shine on their path. Its same here with this person you are talking about. The FACT is that the anti-trinitarians are teaching the exact same Catholic counterfeit Trinity that early which SDA pioneers had opposed! So, the criteria of finding the truth is not what other men think or believe but the Scriptures which is the only authority of faith: "To the law and testimony, if they speak not according this, there is no light in them" Isaiah 8:20. Please check out his web to see who is really teaching the Catholic Trinity (everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/2009/05/who-is-teaching-catholic-trinity-error.html)
@@ChristAdventwitness You sent me a dead link. Yes, there might be many pastors who believe in errors. It is not necessarily Brother Mueller's position as pastor that gives his testimony authority, it is the fact that he wasn't taught the doctrine of the Trinity at the theology seminary in the 1950s. This disproves the claim that our church was already trinitarian during Ellen White's last years of life time. How come they didn't even mention the Trinity at his theology seminary in the 1950s, but today it is an obligatory part of the syllabus at every Adventist university? It is apparent that the doctrine was introduced stepwise by some of our leaders between 1927 and 1980.
@@mattisfichte1730 There's no excuse either as ministers or laity for not examining what we believe in the Scripture. We heard about the Bereans in Thessalonica! (Acts 17:11). Sister White writes: "The Word of God is the great detector of error; to it we believe everything must be brought. The Bible must be our standard for every doctrine and preaching. We must study it reverentially. We are to receive no one's opinion without comparing it with the Scriptures. Here is divine authority which is supreme in matters of faith. It is the Word of the living God that is to decide all controversies" [The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, pp. 44, 45; cf. The Great Controversy, p. 595].
The SDA church claims to believe in Jesus as a redeemer but are not willing to accept his ultimate sacrifice on the cross and the sharing of his blood as the only way to salvation. Instead, SDA still thrive on the OLd Testament and the Law Of Moses thinking that by works they will be saved. They fail to see the Law was given to Moses to be given to the children of Israel/bloodline and direct linaje of Jacob whom God Himself name Israel after he fought the angel for Israel means exactly that “He who fought The Lord”. In other words, Jacob struggled against Jesus himself. The Israelites didn’t know anything about Jesus for His time to come to earth was not come yet. To them even if He appeared in human form would still be considered an Angel. God gave the Law to Moses to let the children of Israel Know that they were SINNERS and therefore CONDEMNED TO ETERNAL DAMNATION. God Himself made it clear to them that they had to fulfill all the LAW and all the FESTIVITIES and CEREMONIES that He Himself prescribed to them. Furthermore, not fulfilling one them is the same as not fulfilling THE LAW AS A WHOLE. All the festivities and ceremonies that were HOLY were also considered to be A SABBATH. The SDA fool themselves into believing they follow the HOLY SCRIPTURES to the letter while DENYING the New Testament as a WHOLE. Being a Christian is not about worshiping a particular day of the week, it’s not about fulfilling the LAW OF MOSES for no one can do so. Being a Christian is about following the teaching and sample of Jesus, it’s about being like HIM, it’s ultimately DOING WHAT JESUS DID “DWJD”. The Seventh Day of Rest was given by GOD to ISRAEL FOR ALL THEIR GENERATIONS SO THAT THEY WILL REMEMBER THEY WERE BROUGHT OUT OF EGYPT. It was never prescribed to the Christians for THEY WERE NOT BROUGHT OUT OF EGYPT. Even more so, the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL “BROKE” the FIRST COVENANT that God Himself did with THEM in mount HOREB OR SINAI over and over again. That’s why God sent the PROPHETS to STRAIGHTEN THEM OUT. However, they never listened to them but instead they STONED THEM TO DEATH. for that reason God Himself told the PROPHET ISAIAH that HE/GOD was going to make a NEW COVENANT with the SONS OF ISRAEL, a COVENANT DIFFERENT FROM THE FIRST ONE, NOT WRITTEN IN STONES BUT RATHER WITHIN THEIR HEART. By that God meant A COVENANT OF FAITH. What is faith? Simple, BELIEVING WHOLEHEARTEDLY IN HIM WHO IS INVISIBLE KNOWING THAT HIS WORD AND PROMISES WILL BE FULFILLED, something the PEOPLE OF ISRAEL HAS NEVER BEEN ABLE TO DO. Why is that? Simple, because BY FAITH NOAH BUILT THE ARCH AND SAVED HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY, BY FAITH ABRAHAM LEFT HIS LAND AND HOME AND BLINDLY WENT TO THE “PROMISED LAND”, BY FAITH HE/ABRAHAM TOOK HIS SON ISAAC AND WAS WILLING TO SACRIFICE HIM WHILE KNOWING THAT GOD WAS GOING TO PROVIDE THE “SACRIFICE LAMB” which in due time BECAME FLESH IN THE PERSON OF JESUS WHOM BECAME THE “SACRIFICE LAMB” WHO TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD “ONCE AND FOR ALL” thus FULFILLING WHAT WAS SAID AND WRITTEN OF HIM THROUGH THE “LAW OF MOSES” and the entire Old Testament therefore putting AND END TO THE OLD COVENANT AND PLACING IN ITS PLACE THE NEW COVENANT IN “HIS BLOOD”. The OLD COVENANT WAS SEALED WITH THE BLOOD OF A LAMB which was a shadow of what was to come. That LAMB was a symbol of Jesus Christ, the LAMB THAT TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD ONCE AND FOR ALL. Jesus SEALED THE NEW COVENANT IN HIS BLOOD AT THE LAST SUPPER thus ABOLISHING FOREVER THE OLD COVENANT. Jesus Himself stated that THE BREAD HE BROKE WAS A METAPHOR/SYMBOL OF “HIS BODY” WHICH WOULD BE BEATEN UP AND BROKEN FOR ALL OF US. THE WINE WAS A METAPHOR/SYMBOL OF “HIS BLOOD” WHICH WOULD BE SPILLED TO CLEANSE US ALL FROM OUR SINS. He told His disciples “DO THIS IN MY MEMORY TILL I RETURN”, FOR HE WHO PARTAKES OF THIS “HOLY CEREMONY” WILL BE SAVED. While doing this, the believer and follower of Jesus Christ ACKNOWLEDGES THAT HE/SHE ACCEPTS THESE TWO SYMBOLIC ELEMENTS OF SALVATION “BY FAITH”. This is why Jesus told Thomas: YOU BELIEVE BECAUSE YOU HAVE SEEN. BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE AND YET HAVE NOT SEEN. IT’S BY FAITH/BELIEVING AND NOT BY WORKS, KEEPING AND A WORSHIPING A DAY OF THE WEEK, DOING AND OBSERVING A WHOLE BUNCH OF FESTIVITIES AND CEREMONIES THAT ARE NO LONGER REQUIRED, OR BY DOING ANY LABOR WHATSOEVER TO PROBE AND PRESENT YOURSELF WORTHY AND BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE GOD’S EYES AND PRESENCE. As human beings WE’RE UNWORTHY OF GOD’S PARDON AND FORGIVENESS THUS WE’RE CUT SHORT FROM HIS PRESENCE. HOWEVER, HE/GOD GAVE US A WAY TO REMOVE ALL OF OUR INIQUITIES AND PRESENT OURSELVES WORTHY AND JUSTIFIED BEFORE HIS EYES AND PRESENCE. THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIVE THAT IS THROUGH HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON JESUS CHRIST. THE ONLY WAY TO BE CLEANSED FROM OUR SINS AND INIQUITIES IS BY BEING COVERED BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THE LAMB/JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF. Neither Jesus nor any of his followers ever preached THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE LAW OF MOSES AS A WAY OF SALVATION. THERE’S NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT REGARDING THAT AS A MATTER. As for Sunday keeping and the trinity IT’S SOMETHING FOUND WITHIN THE NEW TESTAMENT. IT WAS THE DISCIPLES WHO STARTED TO GET TOGETHER THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK TO “BREAK THE BREAD AND DRINK WINE” JUST AS IT WAS STATED BY JESUS AT THE “LAST SUPPER”. Why the first day of the week? Simp, it was ON THIS DAY THAT THE LORD JESUS WAS “RESURRECTED FROM THE DEATH” JUST AS HE PROMISED HIS DISCIPLES. The Catholic Church has nothing to do with this as falsely taught by the SDA. The HOLY SPIRIT WAS GIVEN TO THE DISCIPLES AS JESUS PROMISED HE WOULD DO. Why? Simple, IT’S “THE SEAL” BETWEEN JESUS AND HIS FOLLOWERS. THE SABBATH WAS “THE SEAL” BETWEEN GOD AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL SO THAT THEY WOULD REMEMBER “THEY WERE BROUGHT OUT OF EGYPT”. THE “HOLY SPIRIT” IS “THE SEAL” BETWEEN JESUS AND HIS “FOLLOWERS AND/OR FLOCK”. CHRISTIANS DON’T NEED TO OBSERVE THE “OLD COVENANT” FOR IT IS A COVENANT OF DEATH. HE WHO OBSERVES THAT NEEDS TO ABIDE BY IT WHOLEHEARTEDLY TO THE LETTER. HOWEVER, NOBODY CAN’T. ISRAEL COULDN’T AND FAILED MISERABLY TIME AND TIME AGAIN. NITHER CAN WE FOR WE WILL FAIL LIKEWISE. THE OLD COVENANT IS A BURDEN. THE NEW COVENANT ON THE OTHER HAND IS QUITE THE OPPOSITE FOR ALL THE BURDEN IS LIFTED FROM US BY JESUS. JESUS DID WHAT ISRAEL AND US CANNOT DO. HE WAS SINLESS AND FULFILL THE OLD COVENANT TO THE END THUS MAKING IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO GO BACK TO THE FATHER. HE FULFILLED EACH AND EVERY COMMANDMENT, SOMETHING ISRAEL NEEDLESS TO SAY COULDN’T DO AND NITHER CAN WE. JESUS CAME TO FULFILL ALL THAT IN OUR PLACE SO THAT WE DON’T HAVE TO STRUGGLE WITH IT AND THUS SET US FREE FROM ALL THAT BURDEN. This is the TRUTH THAT THE “SDA” FAIL TO SEE AND UNDERSTAND AND THUS PREFER TO TIE THE YOKE AROUND THEIR NECK AND THEREFORE BE “PRISONERS AND SLAVES” TO THEIR SINS AND INIQUITIES RATHER THAN FREELY ACCEPT THE GIFT OF LIFE AND FORGIVENESS THAT LORD JESUS HIMSELF GIVES US THROUGHOUT HIS SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS. “FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH” BUT LIFE ETERNAL AND EVERLASTING IS GIVEN TO US THROUGH JESUS. ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS ACCEPT THE GIFT HE FREELY GIVES US AND BELIEVE WHO HE SAID HE IS/WAS. That’s all we need to do “BELIEVE” AT HEART AND WITHOUT ANY DOUBT. That’s exactly what the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FAILED TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE. IT’S THE REASON THEY WERE CONDEMNED TO ROAM AND WANDER AROUND THE DESERT FOR FORTY YEARS. THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL HAD AND STILL HAVE A BIG TIME LACK OF FAITH IN GOD. BECAUSE OF THEIR LACK OF FAITH AND THEIR SINS AND INIQUITIES PASSED DOWN TO THEM BY ADAM IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN, that God GAVE THEM THE LAW. TO PROBE TO THEM THEY WILL BE CONDEMNED AND THEY WILL NEVER BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE HIS EYES AND HIS PRESENCE. TO BE “SAVED FROM OUR SIN” IS NOT A MATTER OF “OBEDIENCE” BUT A MATTER OF “FAITH”. Finally, all the teachings of HELLEN WHITE are nothing more than HERESY AND A BUNCH OF LIES, IT’S THE WORK OF THE DEVIL HIMSELF TO KEEP ALL THESE “SDA” PEOPLE BLIND FROM THE TRUTH JUST AS HE’S DONE WITH THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL. “HE WHO HAS EYES SEE AND HE WHO HAS EARS HEAR”.
Shouting does *not* work. It does *not* draw people together, either. Exactly what is your BEEF with the Adventist church?!?!?!?! Your claims that the SDA believers do not accept Jesus as their Savior *is incorrect.*
ItzCaseyKC, you obviously didn’t read my message I previously posted. Just as an insight, I might not be an Adventist but I know the church from the inside. I did my two last years of high school at an Adventist School and got to see what they believe in. And just for the record, isn’t true that the Adventist Church believes that Jesus didn’t complete his work at the cross but right now supposedly He’s in the Holy Tabernacle finishing his cleansing and purifying it? That’s what Ellen White taught but is nowhere in the Bible or the New Testament. It’s totally and completely unbiblical. One more thing, isn’t true as well that the Adventist Church believe they can predict and know when Jesus will return, all of this based upon the book of Daniel? Jesus Himself said that: “no one knows of the day (date) and time of his return. Nor the angels in heaven or even the sun of man (Jesus Himself) but only the Father that’s in heaven seated upon the throne”. I suggest you read your Bible entirely from beginning to end (Genesis - Revelation). It will be surprising to see the TRUTH unfold before your very eyes. Only then you will understand God’s plan for humankind as a whole. Last but not least, read the message I previously posted. Have a good day and may God bless you and remove the veil from your eyes. Amen.
@@ODVR68 Ummm. The part of predicting when Jesus was to return was in the early Miller movement. After 1844, the key people realized that it was the heavenly sanctuary that was to be cleansed, not the earth. That is the phase Jesus is doing right now. It's also called the Judgement period, to which we are in right now. Soon though, it will end and Jesus will stand and declares in Rev. 22:10, 11 where John was told this for our understanding, "And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." In order to determine who is saved and those who cannot be, there first must be a judgment. It's just like what our penal system was likened to. God will one day soon declare mankind's probation to be closed and those who are unwilling to be saved will then be declared lost. After that, the plagues will hit with a severe gale force along with all sorts of "natural disasters" when that time comes, or vise versa. Either way, there *has to be* a judgment before justice is meted out.
ItzCaseyKC, as I said in the beginning, the Adventist Church denies the work of Jesus on the cross for Jesus Himself said: “He who believes in me will be saved” not “He who follows the Law of Moses” will be saved. He’s work on the cross was to cleanse you, me and everybody from our sins. No one can fulfill the Law of Moses and the First Covenant but Jesus alone. You think that by going to Church on Saturday you will be presentable and righteous before God. Saturday has never been the 7th day as described by the Bible as no where in the Holy Scriptures is stated as such. Again, the Adventist’s doctrine is satanic and you still believe in that. You’re condemned to spend eternity in hell. I’m not doing so but you’re doing it to yourself and you’re denying that Jesus died for your sins once and for all. You think of yourself as being perfect but you’re not. You may keep thinking like that but your going to find out the hard way when He comes back: Galatians 3:11-14 “But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith”. Galatians 3:19-29 “Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator for one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterward be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise”. Romans 4:20 “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin”. What is faith then? Hebrews 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”. Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him”. How does faith come? Romans 10:17 “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”. Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by faith are ye saved through faith: and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast”. As for the New Covenant, Jesus Himself put in place at the Last Supper. Matthew 26:26-28 “And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples and said, Take eat, this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the “new testament”, which is shed for many for the remission of sins”. The same is stated in: Mark 14:22-24 Luke 22:19-20 1 Corinthians 11:24-26 The New Covenant was made in the Spirit and not on the letter (written) for it kills. 2 Corinthians 3:6 “Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament (Covenant); not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life”. Jesus is the Mediator of the New Covenant. Hebrews 12:24 “And to Jesus the mediator of the New Covenant”, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel”. Even more so. If the First Covenant given to Moses had been perfect, there would have been no need for a Second Covenant: Hebrews 8:7, 13 “ For if that First Covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second (Second Covenant)”. “In that He saith, A New Covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away”. Jesus is not in the sanctuary cleansing and purifying it for He came to cleanse us all from our sins, we human beings. He offered Himself once and for all; He was the ultimate sacrifice: Hebrews 10: 12, 14 “But this man (Jesus), after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God”. “For by one offering He (Jesus) hath perfected forever them that are sanctified”. Last but not least, Jesus disciples gathered on the first day of the week. Acts 20:7 “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continue his speech until midnight “. Furthermore: 1 Corinthians 16:2 “Upon the first day of the week let everyone of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come”. I can go on forever proving you with the Holy Scriptures that your wrong and that the teachings of Ellen White is a big time heresy, a doctrine of Satan Himself. It’s up to you which you choose to believe but according to the Scriptures, people at the Adventist Church are putting the yoke around their neck by their own choice for they don’t scrutinize the Holy Scriptures. Hope you have a good day and may God bless you and by the power of the Holy Spirit remove the veil from your eyes. Amen.
Bobbi, even Jesus told the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Spirit). My question is... how is that not a union of three, which many call the Trinity?!
ItzCaseyKC I think because we go strictly by the Bible, God word, they are trying to discredit the church. We don’t care what man says is ok, tradition, but by the word only.
@@bobbic3027 Uh huh, it sounds like it. We find various mention of a triune God. *IF* people want to call them the Trinity, I don't have a problem with that. *IF* they choose to use the word "triune God" that's ok also. Many feel that just because the Catholic church was the ones who up with that phrase, then it must be evil. There is always going to be something good we can take away from other faiths when it coincides with scripture. Many common folks don't know what the original language is saying, and merely go by what the English version says. Sometimes, English leaves alot to be desired when it comes to understanding what scripture says. I don't profess to know Hebrew or Greek, however, there are volumes of reference material out there... including programs that one can download & install on their computers that can help one's understanding of our KJV Bible. It's out there in cyber-world waiting for us to avail ourselves of their information. The fact that the Holy Spirit is *a real Person* even without a form as we know it to be... instead of some persona, or mere breath, that comes from the essence of our heavenly Father. Jesus said in Mat. 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" I'll stop now.
1) Many non-Trinitarians believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit too. Trinitarians merely insist on a certain interpretation of the nature of God. So you saying that Adventists believe in exactly what you stated isn't even enough to make them Trinitarians. This is not such a simple matter. There's a lot of nuance to this which is why Christians have debated for two millennia about the topic of what the Bible actually says about it. 2) The old pastor is not speaking about if all or some Adventists *now* believe in the Trinity. He is talking about history and only of a specific part of the global church community. Even Adventists historians readily admit as a fact that many of the first Adventists, the so-called pioneers, were not Trinitarians. 3) I don't understand why or how acknowledging that historically there has been variation in Adventist beliefs would discredit the Church. Ellen White has written quite a lot about the idea of *present truth* which implies that there is a constant reformation going on. I'd find it a bigger problem if the first Adventists had claimed that the church knows the whole truth and is infallible as that would make it impossible for the church to learn anything new or to reform.
ODVR68 I didn't read all of your rant because the first paragraph shows that you know nothing about what the SDA believe. I'm not going to bother trying to educate you because you have such a twisted view that nothing would convince you that you are wrong and if you wanted to know there are all kinds of resources where you could learn.
This pastor ignored the Bible and the writings of Ellen g white? Ellen g white believed in the Holy Spirit as a person! All you have to do is look at her writings!
Where in the Bible and SOP can you read that the Holy Spirit is a person? Does it have a face, body blood and bones like a person? 1John 5:7 talks about power not a being/person. John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. We have to know who we worship and praise and glorify my friend!
Umm. I'm adventist and we think ellen white was a crack pot. Don't forget the adventist church split up and the 7th day Adventists are one off shoot not the entirety of Adventists.
@@valentinvillegas7312 Valentin, How do you harmonize the 5 or 6 statements always used by Trinitarian and tritheists to "prove" that what EGW meant by "third person" means a 3rd divine being with the hundreds, literally hundreds of quotes that say there otherwise? All of Ellen's quotes MUST harmonize or she is instantly a false prophet and we should not accept that for one second! Here is just a sampling of quotes that must be harmonized: "The Lord is soon to come. We want that complete and perfect understanding that the Lord alone can give. It is not safe to catch the Spirit from another. We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ." Letter 66, 1894, par. 18 "Christ the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father, one in nature, in character and purpose, -- the ONLY being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ , the Father wrought in the creation of ALL heavenly beings."... "Sin originated with him [Satan], who NEXT to Christ had been honored of God." GC p. 492-493 Read PP pg. 34.1 for another very similar quote to the GC one. It says God the Father had a co-worker (singular, not 2 co-workers). Re-Read Zech 6:12&13. How many were involved in the counsel of peace? "The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency, that through His grace we might be complete in Him." 14MR p. 84 "Christ is to be known by the blessed name of Comforter. ""And I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world can not receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but he know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comforters: I will come to you". John 14:16-18 quoted by Ellen. She makes it super plain that Jesus Himself is the Comforter. He comes to you, not another being, a supposed 3rd divine being who never experienced humanity or overcame sin. Only Jesus can succor us. "The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ; it is His representative." 13MR 313.3, 1895 "Remember the words of Christ, remember that He is an unseen presence in the person of the Holy Spirit(Jonh 14:18,21,23 quoted by EGW. DG, 185.2, 1897 So would it not be practicing spiritualism and going against SDA doctrine on the state of the dead to say that the Spirit of the Father or the Son is detached and separate from Them? If the Holy Spirit were an actual 3rd God being, would He have a spirit? Holy Spirit isn't a name. The Holy Spirit can not be prayed to or worshipped, it doesn't have a seat on the throne, it doesn't have a crown, it is only present in the counsels of heaven because it is a part of the Father and the Son. It doesn't have a rank. Lucifer was 3rd in rank and now Gabriele is. How do you answer these questions?
A critically important truth that WILL offend other churches but stays true to the One True God! Thank you for posting this Pastor Matt!
'One true God' is not 'one person'! It is the THREE PERSONS that makes up of 'one true God'
of Heaven!
@@ChristAdventwitness Wrong Mr Shelton. Please, please re read and understand John 17:3. The Bible does not say three persons that make one god. you are worshiping and teaching Spiritualism to the flock. There is one God and not three in one. Do you find that anywhere in the Bible? your only defense is 1Jo 5:7, not weighed compared to the hundreds of texts pointing to God and Jesus Christ. Go back to the writings of our pioneers and sister White and the greetings of Paul in the NT. Read the history of the Council of Nicea. Even an unlearned person like me can not take 1+1+1=1. would you rather worship a Roman Catholic Creed or the One God which is in heaven? God is merciful, please return to Him before the judgment in the house of God. Trinity will usher ALL SDA into worshiping and accepting the Christian sabbath which is sunday and when Sunday Law is enforced the judgment in the house of God is over.
@@ChristAdventwitness Yes Yes Yes.
Jesus, while in the garden before being captured, prayed that the Father be one in Him and He with the Father, just as He desired His followers who are in the world be unified in like believers... so that things can happen and that they can be goal oriented. That's perfect unity. Self-lessness.
At 2:43 the retired pastor shows he has not studied this issue out. Adventist used the term "trinity" in an official manner as early as 1922.
Ellen White often writes about the "Three highest powers of heaven".
Who would she be referring to?
@@earlysdaThe Father, His Begotten Son Jesus and their Holy Spirit.
This is beautiful despite being in a language not my own. I am deeply moved, and appreciate this rare gift of an elder who is not ashamed of the gospel, and not ashamed to call SDA sin by its right name.
Why did Ellen White use the term "Three highest powers of heaven" many times, Brook?
@@earlysda Why did Ellen White, in 'Desire of Ages', write "third person" - when, in the exact same paragraph, she defines this 'third person' as Jesus' Spirit/Character?
"Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third Person of the Godhead....
Christ has given His Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress His own character upon His church."
{Desire of Ages p. 671}
@@BrookDesHarnaisyou said it right there, “CHRIST GAVE HIS SPIRIT!”
Part 2 of 3 In his book Froom writes the following: “I was compelled to search out a score of valuable books written by men outside of our Faith ... for initial clues and suggestions ... Having these, I went on from there. But they were decided early helps. And scores, if not hundreds, could confirm the same sobering conviction that some of these other men frequently had a deeper insight into the spiritual things of God than many of our own men had on the Holy Spirit and the triumphant life. It was still a largely obscure theme." (LeRoy Froom, Movement of Destiny, p.322)
"The next logical and inevitable step in the implementing of our unified fundamental beliefs, involved revision of certain standard works, so as to eliminate statements that taught, and thus perpetuated erroneous views on the Godhead. Such sentiments were now sharply at variance with the accepted fundamental beliefs set forth in the Church Manual." (Movement of Destiny, p.422)
“May I here make a frank personal confession? When, back between 1926 and 1928, I was asked by our leaders to give a series of studies on the Holy Spirit, covering the North American union ministerial institutes of 1928, I found that, aside from priceless leads found in the Spirit of Prophecy, there was practically nothing in our literature setting forth a sound Biblical exposition in this tremendous field of study. There were no previous pathfinding books on the question in our literature. I was compelled to search out a score of valuable books written by men outside of our faith-those previously noted-for initial clues and suggestions, and to open up beckoning vistas to intensive personal study. Having these, I went on from there. But they were decided early helps. And scores, if not hundreds, could confirm the same sobering conviction that some of these other men frequently had a deeper insight into the spiritual things of God than many of our own men then had on the Holy Spirit and the triumphant life. It was still a largely obscure theme.” - Movement Of Destiny. p. 322
And what was the primary purpose of what LeRoy Froom, Daniells and others did in bringing the trinity god teaching into the Adventist Church? ... "We are one with our fellow Christians of denominational groups in the great fundamentals of the faith once delivered to the saints." (Questions on Doctrines, p.32).
“The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-Day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Selected Messages Book 1, 204.2 cont.
Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed.
The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. Selected Messages Book 1-Page 204.2 cont.
A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Selected Messages Book 1-Page 204.2
Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure.” [ Selected Messages Book 1-Page 204, 205]
Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? Selected Messages Book 1, p. 205.1 (Ellen Gould White)
George R. Knight is professor of church history at the Theological Seminary, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan.
"Most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the trinity." - George Knight, Ministry, October 1993, p. 10.
"Adventist beliefs have changed over the years under the impact of 'present truth.' Most startling is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord. … the Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs, was not generally held by the early Adventists. Even today a few do not subscribe to it." (William G. Johnsson in the Adventist Review, Jan. 6, 1994 p.10)
Falsify the history about the original SDA pioneer position regarding the trinity. This revisionist history can be seen in the books Questions on Doctrine and Movement of Destiny. While Froom is not the originator of this tactic he is most certainly the key perpetrator and popularizer of it.
Burn evidence to the contrary. This little known fact reveals much about Mr. Froom. True historians do not burn the source material yet Froom did! When I learned about this I was not even surprised. It fit the pattern perfectly because based on the personal letters that he received Le Roy Froom actually knew the truth but chose to lie anyway. It's just more dishonest, underhanded tactics on Froom's part.
3) Promote unbegottenism by introducing new theology and playing a part in having the old pioneer references to the begotten Son expunged. Due to this, Froom is certainly culpable for the psuedo-tritheistic doctrine that exists in Adventism today.
4) Manipulate the inspired data from the Spirit of prophecy. Froom did this on a few subjects. Basically he used partial data presentations, out of context quotations, and ellipses to make Mrs. White seem like she was supporting doctrines that she really was not (i.e. trinity, [pre-fall, sinless flesh] nature of Christ, [completed] atonement [at Calvary]) [brackets added for clarity]
Thanks for posting this. Very helpful. Now what shall we do since it's clear the current SDA church is a catholic movement?
@@Cryaloud: Good question. I will never stop praying that God may bring about a reformation amongst all SDA members, especially the leaders. Unfortunately, I live in a country where there are no communities of worshippers who believe as I do. So, I worship at home and listen to quite a few ministries who believes as I do.
@@seekertruth3577 I'm in Ireland and experiencing same situation, where are you?
@@Cryaloud: By air approx. 5100 nautical miles. Unfortunately, for now, that is all I can share.
What I omitted in my original message is that once every eight weeks, I visit the local SDA church. The church members still treat me very well. I must also acknowledge that I’ve never heard anyone preach the Trinity message from that church’s pulpit. Years ago, I openly spoke against the Trinity doctrine. I was asked to meet with the pastor and the elders. None of them could Biblically defend the Trinity doctrine. The pastor suddenly adjourned the meeting without any action taken against me. Even to this day, I am on their record as a member of the SDA Church. What saddens me is that some prominent SDA Trinitarians acknowledged that the Trinity doctrine is unbiblical, yet Ted Wilson speaks harshly against those who do not accept the Trinity doctrine.
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanks for your video, i'm your brother from Indonesia, for years I confuse to compare about our belief when i teenager and today, thankyou. curiosity answered already. Please more number retirement pastor interview publish... Like this..... And classified in playlist to know old faith and our pioneer believe
Thank you for this video! God bless you both! This video included everything that I have also learned from the Holy Writings. Praise the Lord! The whole Bible points to God as the ultimate power, Jesus His Son and the Holy Spirit - God's Spirit/Helper. I have prayed about this so many times because it is so frustrating and unbelievable that the clear teaching of who Jesus is, in relation to the Father, is completely ignored by mainstream Christians. Not only is it ignored, but in some local churches, you are not even allowed to discuss the non-biblical aspect of the Trinity. That is why I left the SDA church, amongst other reasons. God's Word is our only authority. We have to stand by the Word of God, no matter what. Glory to the Father - forever!
There's a little problem with Line of Truth Ministries belief system you should be aware of....
Matt Dooley of Line of Truth Ministries says....
"Jesus is as fully divine as His Father. Just because we believe Jesus' personality had a beginning does not mean that HE IS AN INFERIOR OR LESSER God. Nor does a hierarchy between the Father and Son IMPLY THAT THE SON IS INFERIOR AS WELL."
Then he says in an article concerning Revelation 1:7,8
"I can see how some would apply verse 8 to Jesus, but we need to understand that John is the one speaking of Christ’s second coming, AND NOT CHRIST HIMSELF SPEAKING".
So, first He says Jesus is not inferior to God, then He has a problem with God's Holy Prophet, John, telling you Jesus is God Almighty in Rev. 1:8, which makes Jesus equal to God!
He's forced to interpret Rev. 1:7,8 that way, because the SDA pioneer, Uriah Smith, said that was not Jesus Almighty in Rev. 1:8.
And Matt Dooley believes in studying the belief system of the SDA pioneers, which prevents him from hearing what the Holy Spirit has to say.
That's God's Holy Prophet, John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation, speaking in Rev. 1:7,8.
Matt Dooley, is not one of God's Holy Prophets. He has never been 'IN THE SPIRIT'!
Uriah Smith is not one of God's Holy Prophets.
Matt Dooley, does not have the credentials to challenge the plain statement of one of God's Holy Prophets, who was IN THE SPIRIT throughout the vision he calls 'the unveiling'.
The only valid hierarchy I see, is this.
1. God
2. God's Holy Prophets
3. Matt Dooley
Who is Matt Dooley compared to God's Holy Prophet John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation?
Answer: A NOBODY.....
And Matt Dooley has blasphemed the Holy Spirit, because God's Holy Prophet John was 'in the Spirit' throughout the Revelation.
Matt Dooley speaks with forked tongue.
@@clarawagon9019 Dear sister,
I believe you misunderstood brother Matt's point concerning Rev 1:8. His point is not that verses 7 and 8 are not inspired. He simply points out that verse 8 does not indicate who is speaking here. Your view that it is Christ speaking about Himself is an interpretation of the verse. But there are other options. Let me illustrate that:
Rev 1:8 says: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Option 1: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending", saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
In this case, it could be Christ speaking about himself, it could also be the Father speaking about himself. Both call themselves "Alpha and Omega" in Revelation (s. Rev 1:11 and 21:6), both are referred to as Lord.
Option 2: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
In this case, it would probably be Christ reporting on his Father saying that His Son is the Alpha and the Omega. The latter part would probably refer to the Father then, but it could also refer to Christ. It could also be the Father reporting on Christ's words, but for me that would be rather unlikely.
Option 3: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending," saith the Lord, "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
Here possible interpretations would be similar to Option 3.
Let's not accuse each other of rejecting the inspired Words of God, when in fact we simply disagree with each other's interpretations of God's Word.
Blessings from Germany!
Mattis
Thank God that this movement is growing fast and in these last days. I cannot support the trinity because Pastors have to say that the sonship of Christ is only metaphorical, to accommodate the holy Spirit. But the writings of John are very clear. All his letters review the Son of God, and He would send His Spirit.
SDA is very much Judaism from the time of Jesus. The leaders were not prepared for the coming of the Son of God, neither recognized Him. Today, trinitarianism is a smoke curtain and leaders, although pray for the holy Spirit, don't know what it is. All virgins are sleeping. But the bridegroom is coming. The books of John reveal who the Spirit is. Our Lord is coming. There might be coronaviruses, lockdowns, end of democracy, great reset. God's people will be fed.
Part 3 of 3 Movement of Destiny or Movement of Deception?
Le Roy Froom was best known in the Seventh-day Adventist church for his work as editor for several church publications, a church historian, secretary of the General Conference Ministerial Association, and author of several books. He was also a musician.
Froom was born in Belvedere, Illinois. He studied at Pacific Union College and Walla Walla College before graduating from Washington Training Center. There are mixed stories about Le Roy Froom along with a connection to the Catholic church. History shows he had a yearning to cross the divide between us and others and unite the Adventist church with Evangelicals and just about anyone else, to be accepted and not be classified as a cult as the testimony of the 1950’s Evangelical Conference will show.
He wrote the pro-trinitarian book entitled “Coming of the Comforter - Studies on the Coming and Work of the Third Person of the Godhead” (1928)
In 1960, Froom sent a letter to Otto Christensen in which he gives us evidence that it was his (Froom’s) personal efforts that helped to bring about this change in beliefs about the Holy Spirit within Seventh-day Adventism. It shows us clearly too that the pioneers did not accept that the Holy Spirit is a person like God and Christ, also that there was decided resistance to this change.
This is when Froom said in his letter
“May I state that my book, THE COMING OF THE COMFORTER was the result of a series of studies that I gave in 1927 - 1928, to ministerial institutes throughout North America. You cannot imagine how I was pummelled by some of the old-timers because I pressed on the personality of the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Godhead.
Some men denied that - still deny it. But the book has come to be generally accepted as standard.” ” (L. Froom, letter to Otto Christenson, 27th October 1960)
“Back in the spring of 1930 Arthur G. Daniells for more than twenty years president of the General Conference, told me he believed that, at a later time, I should undertake a thorough survey of the entire plan of redemption…. I was a connecting link between past leaders and the present. But, he said, it is to be later - not yet, not yet. Elder Daniels recognized the serious problems involved, and sensed almost prophetically certain difficulties that would confront. He knew that time would be required for certain theological wounds to heal, and for attitudes to modify on the part of some. Possibly it would be necessary to wait until certain individuals had dropped out of action (died), before the needed portrayal could wisely be brought forth.” - Movement Of Destiny, p. 17;
“I am charged to tell our people that they do not realize that the devil has device and device, and he carries them out in ways that they do not expect. Satan’s agencies will invent ways to make sinners out of saints. I tell you now, that when I am laid to rest, great changes will take place. I do not know when I shall be taken; and I desire to warn all against the devices of the devil. I want the people to know that I warned them fully before my death.” - Manuscript 1, February 24, 1915
1931 SDA Fundamental Beliefs 1931. P. 377.3
2 That the Godhead, or Trinity, consists of the Eternal Father, a personal, spiritual Being, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, infinite in wisdom and love; the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Eternal Father, through whom all things were created and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the great regenerating power in the work of redemption. Matthew 28:19; Isaiah 44:6;48:13; Matthew 12:32; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Revelation 1:8,11)
3 That Jesus Christ is very God, ...
1941- Missing quotes
BOOK “EVANGELISM” PLAYS VITAL PART.-”Later, when I connected with the Ministerial Association of the General Conference, I did considerable research in the Spirit of Prophecy writings on this subject, and found much more. When we were asked to help in compiling the book Evangelism these and many other counsels became a vital part of that book. Note the section ‘The Message and Its Presentation’ (pp. 168-216). LeRoy Froom, Movement of Destiny p.621
th-cam.com/video/goLppG2_7LM/w-d-xo.html
Powerful and absolutely true. Yes indeed the adventist church changed and will continue going the Catholic way as long as we worship a triune God or embrace the Trinity. The trinity is the centre of catholicism and Sun Worship. All the rest come from trinity : ecumenism, women's ordination, charismatic worship styles, affirming of alternative sexuality, child baptism, nature worship (ecological conversion), social justice gospel etc. Neal C Wilson was right when he said the SDA church is now a truly catholic organisation. He wouldn't have said that before 1980. The trinity was the game changer. And true adventist will reject the triune god and return to one true God the Father and his begotten Son Jesus Christ.
Thank you pastor for this interview of a faithful servant of the only True God! I am so encouraged to stand firmly on the platform of our Fundamental Principles. What the retired pastor said that those waiting for the coming of Jesus Christ is not high! It saddens me that the pagan sun god is the center of worship not God the Father that cause this remark. I pray that many will watch this video and return to the worship of the only True God and His only Begotten Son whom He has sent to this earth to redeem us from our sin! Those who say that the trinity their form of worship, there is still time to repent, study the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit to teach and establish them into the worship of the only True God! It is all about worship, worship of the only True God, and not pagan sun god, ushering all to worship on the first day of the week, Sunday, the Christian Sabbath not the Biblical Sabbath, the 7th day of the week. Thank you and
God bless your ministry!
Yes one God. th-cam.com/video/xvNam-GMxEs/w-d-xo.html
First you say, 'Only true God' is Father, then with same breath, you say we must worship both the Father and "begotten Son"! So now we find you WORSHIP TWO gods, not just "one" after all. Anti-trinitarians say the Father is Almighty God and Jesus is lesser inferior god has a beginning somewhere in the eternity past. This is where this Arian heresy crumbles to the ground my sister. Jesus declares, " I Am the beginning and the End, the First and the Last, ALMIGHTY...I became dead, but now live forevermore" Rev. 1:8,17,18. Isaiah says that 'No god was form either before or after god' (Isaiah 43:10) so, Christ cannot be a second LESSER god with a beginning somewhere in infinity.
@@ChristAdventwitness Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: V6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: V9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name; V10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, under the earth V11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. John 17:3 And this is life eternal THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST, WHOM THOU HAST SENT. John 14:28..... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. Ponder on these texts Brother Don. You have the means of giving the True Message if you desire, while there is still time and obey God rather than men. We all know that trinity is pagan sun god! Fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of his judgment is come! Prepare His people, to meet thy God, and not sin till Jesus comes. Do you believe Jesus is begotten of the Father? John 3:16 For God so loved the world and gave His only Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have eternal Life. Who is greater, the Father or the Son? Like you for example; you have a son, is he greater than You? As a human being your son is a human as well. So if God the Father is God, Jesus must be God too, the Son of God (not God the son) their nature is God....We have to know whom we worship, serve, praise and glorify. May God bless you and come to know the One True God and His only begotten Son. Trinity? Try to look for God the Holy Spirit in The Bible...NONE. it is a universal god that has crept into the SDA denomination and many will perish for not knowing who they worship. Deut 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve gods, and worship them; V17 And then the Lord"s wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven against you......Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel:The Lord our God is one Lord....HAPPY AND BLESSED SABBATH. This is Nora Llaniguez
Shelton Donald If we have not a deep experience in the things of God, if we have not a thorough knowledge of His Word, we shall be beguiled to our ruin by the errors and sophistries of the enemy. False doctrines will sap the foundations of many, because they have not learned to discern truth from error. Our only safeguard against the wiles of Satan is to study the Scriptures diligently, to have an intelligent understanding of the reasons of our faith, and faithfully to perform every known duty. The indulgence of one known sin will cause weakness and darkness, and subject us to fierce temptation.... - {Mar 95.3}
Is there any error on this text bro Don;
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
THERE IS ONE GOD! Read the Holy Scripture as it is and don’t add or omit because you know it well what will happen when judgment comes!!! Blessed Sabbath... prepare God’s people according to His Word!
Shelton Donald good morning and a blessed Sabbath from the other side of the world. I would like to clarify that we are NOT anti trinitarians; it’s grammatically wrong. We are believers of the Only True God and His only Begotten Son (non trinitarians). First of all, trinity defaces God and does not believe in Father and Son relationship! The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father and of Jesus Christ and not a third person. It is the Comforter that Jesus asked the Father to send in His name, because of His great love for us He will not leave us comfortless. Since Jesus Christ is in the most Holy Place interceding for the Father and us, His Spirit/the Spirit of God was given to us to teach, guide and mold our character according to the similitude of Christ. I know you know all these because you went to theology school to attain higher education. But for unlearned people like me, I read The Bible as it is and don’t interpret it like other learned people do; and the Spirit of Prophecy our compass to greater Light of Truth! Simple and primitive Godliness is what the Lord requires of us, not the higher education that is learned from great universities but instead we learn from the School of Christ. I will worship and exalt God the Father and His Son alone and not a three in one god (trinity) you claim for my God will save me, forgive all my sins, and eventually adopt me to be His child. I can’t worship a man made god the trinity (as introduced by our GC Pres’ father Neal Wilson and announced that the SOP is a heap of trash and that we are ALL Catholics, a universal church of error and Spiritualism! This is the main reason that only smooth messages of comfort thus making members asleep in the comfort of their seats is preached in the churches’ pulpits whose pillars have been broken down by apostasy! The Third Angel’s Message is barely heard because since the denomination became a member of the world council of churches, the GC can no longer give the straight message to the dying members because how can a member defame a co member of the WCC? BEM; baptism, Eucharist and ministry is all about our logo now which replaced the biblical logo of the Three Angels’ Message! Rev 14:6-10....After officially accepting the RC creed in 1981, the message of salvation has been watered down! Wake up saints!
Isa 58:Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
This is another thing we have noticed since trinity became the 2nd fundamental belief of our denomination:
Sabbath is lightly regarded.
The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. - {1SM 204.2}
I know this and have been told am wrong many times but it is the truth.
WE have the Father, the son and the holy spirit is the breath of them.
“We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.-Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.)” Evangelism, 616.
There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)”
@@ChristAdventwitness this is false teaching, The holy spirit is the spirit of God which lives within those who accept it.
it is as the wind the Bible refers to the Holy spirit as pneuma and we have but ONE God not three. This teaching comes from the Catholic church
some of Ellen whites writings have been changed because she said this was not a matter to debate
@@ChristAdventwitness well , clearly God is not a person he is a God.
I worship God the father and God the son and the holy spirit is given unto all who accept it is like the wind and the breath of God which brings us life.
I believe the Bible and subscribe to it's teaching not to mans.
nancy alcorn, Sister the Bible only teaches the Son of God, not God the Son. This is how so many refer to Jesus, God the Son, but personally I have to undo (God the Son) when I address Jesus, as the Son of God. Have a blessed day!
@@norallaniguez7706 I know. my dyslexic typing sometimes reverses word placement.
Amen, the light is shining
What a beautiful testimony. And in my native language 🙂 Danke!
Hallo Sonja, bin auch deutsch! Bin total überrascht gewesen, dass es auf deutsch ist, haha. Gott segne dich! 💌
@@NoonyNewborn danke! Dich auch!
What a legend this old timer !
Really good interview
Pastor, Im a Non-trinitarian SDA from Philippines and I think I got something to share. God's nature is revealed through the atomic structure. If ever you read this, please leave a link wherein we can talk and I'll explain it to you. I'm open of any correction. But I'm under the impression that the very building block that comprised all creation is actually the signature of God's nature.
I'd love to read your thoughts on that.
For me is difficult to understand that a person is called Holy Spirit, yes the Creator , Father , Yahua Hamashya but Holy Spirit ???
I came out of the SDA because of the Trinity doctrine. It is no longer the remnant following truth.
Brother you left the truth and have embraced error. Reexamine what you believe, may God bless.
The True SDA has the Pillars of our Faith given by the Holy Spirit to our Pioneers and Sister White that we may give the message of the Three angels for our generation. The Fundamental Principles of 1889 if obeyed implicitly the platform of our faith built on the Rock will not end in the condition of our denomination now. I pray that you go back to the original SDA of Primitive Godliness. Jesus is soon to come. Blessed Sabbath
@@ChristAdventwitness Should you let God lead you into ALL truth, you might be humbled to see the simple truth THAT WAS TAUGHT. How can Jesus be equal with God if there are three? How do you get three who were ALL, "The Supreme Ruler of the universe" when there is only is ONE who is called the Father? Be honest.
Where did you go? Because I'm advent christian and we have been infiltrated by a overwhelming amount of annoying trinitarians. I dont align well with Jehovah witnesses either though so at a loss of where to go.
@@ChristAdventwitness or they found it. I'm non-trinitarian and looking to leave the church myself
As a pastor, I have also come to accept the Father Son theology and rejects the Trinty teaching.
''About the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “Eʹli, Eʹli, laʹma sa·bach·thaʹni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
These words hit hard in this philosophical doctrine.
Athanasius was the "leader" of the committee in charge of developing a doctrine for the trinity. The committee argued and argued. The emperor became impatient. They argue and argued some more. The emperor became more impatient, then angry, impatient, and threatening. The committee became afraid and rushed a document together. Athanasius wrote this about that document, "I am nor sure this is truth." ("No one is good but the one God." - not my words)
Flase that never happened ever
Thank You brother Mueller for your wise and faithful words.
Ivan, the retired pastor seems to know very little of the history of the use of "Trinity" in the SDA Church. For example, he says it basically got started with Wilson in the late 1970s, when in fact, that term was used to define official Adventist doctrine at least as early as 1922.
.
Ellen White often mentions the "Three highest powers of heaven". Who are they?
Awesome brother
One God. th-cam.com/video/xvNam-GMxEs/w-d-xo.html
Nice to see you, miss you Mountain View, AR.
@ Carson LLANNIGUEZ: YOU said, "Even an unlearned person like me can not take 1+1+1=1."
Now, you Anti-trinitarians accuse the SDA with 1+1+1=3, not 1+1+1=1. Couldn't you be accused of the same:
1+1=2 not 1+1=1?
Shelton Donald oh brother Donald may God direct you to the right path. You know very well that we have only ONE Father in heaven and His Son is God also because Jesus came from the Father who is God. Their nature is God! Just like you a human who has a human son. Simple! Have a blessed day. Please tone down because we just want to share to you the bright light of salvation! God loves you and look to Jesus alone and not to the anti trinitarians. We love you brother. We can not be in state of Laodicea but Philadelphia instead. Brotherly love.
i dont believe in 1+1=2. they are both distinct. Jesus was born from the father, just like a child from the mother, but they are distinct beings.
Retired Pastor vs. Jesus, Moses, and the Prophet Jesus sent from heaven.....
Exodus 32:31-33 Lord there is YHWH which is God, and in verse 33, YHWH says he who sins against him will have their name blotted out of HIS (YHWH'S) book of life.
In Revelation 22:16 Jesus says he sent His angel. In Rev. 1:1 only one angel is sent. In Rev. 22:6-9 that angel Jesus sent turns out to be a Prophet, and that Prophet calls Jesus LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS.
In case you are wondering if Jesus is some kind of lesser God, in Revelation 3:5, Jesus says he is the one who removes or doesn't remove your name from the Book of Life. It's Jesus' Book of Life, Rev. 21:27, YHWH's BOOK OF LIFE, and it is YHWH that removes your name from His Book of Life, which means Jesus IS YHWH!!
Do I have to do the math for you? It's YHWH's Book of Life. It's Jesus' Book of Life. YHWH removes your name or not from His book of Life. Jesus' removes your name from His Book of Life, or not. Again, Rev. 21:27. Jesus is YHWH, obviously.
The Prophet Jesus sent from heaven in Rev. 22:16, is the only human in the Bible that sees clearly, according to the Apostle Paul, who Jesus, YHWH, hand picked to preach to the gentiles, 1 Corinthians 13:12. He was sent from heaven by Jesus, YHWH, seeing clearly.
This video is sponsored by Line of Truth Ministries, a misguided group of malcontented former SDA's that do not believe Jesus is YHWH!
Follow them and you will lose your eternal life for subtracting from the Revelation. Rev. 22:19, Rev. 21:8.
It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Spirit is the Comforter, "the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father." It is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit that, in His work of guiding men into all truth, "He shall not speak of Himself." John 15:26; 16:13. [52]
The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden.
The office of the Holy Spirit is distinctly specified in the words of Christ: "When He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." John 16:8. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin. If the sinner responds to the quickening influence of the Spirit, he will be brought to repentance and aroused to the importance of obeying the divine requirements.
To the repentant sinner, hungering and thirsting for righteousness, the Holy Spirit reveals the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. "He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you," Christ said. "He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 16:14; 14:26.
We're also a Non trinitarian Born again Christian.
@ Carson LLANNIGUEZ: YOU said, "Go back to the writings of our pioneers and sister White and the greetings of Paul in the NT."
Not just only apostle Paul in N.T, but throughout Bible we find clear evidence for the bible doctrine of the Trinity: That's the Father, the Christ and the Holy Spirit are the Heavenly One True God. They are self-existent divine Persons (divine, means God). Divinity is the nature or quality of being God, within Christianity, it belongs to God alone.
The Trinity is the Unity of these Three divine Persons in Heaven and they are the 'One true God! The SDA's believe the "three living persons of the heavenly trio" are a "trinity," three distinct persons, in perfect unity as ONE God. 'ONE' is the UNITY, in purpose, love, nature, character/righteousness, and glory.
To begin with the very word "GOD" in original Hebrew language is "ELOHIM" which is a plurality of persons.
Sister Ellen White, affirms there are THREE WITNESSESS in Heaven as in 1 John 5:7:
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
For the {6BC 1074.8} MS 57, 1900
"In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, man is laid in his watery grave, buried with Christ in baptism, and raised from the water to live the new life of loyalty to God. THE THREE great powers in heaven are WITNESSES; they are invisible but present."
“The eternal Godhead-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”- Upward Look, 148.
"There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)
Shelton Donald my religion is the religion of Christ and I go to the school of Christ where simple religion is taught and not the teachings of men. BRI where most of the pastors went to school is Jesuit schools? Higher education in where men’s interpretation has poisoned many intellectuals but dishonored God, defaced God and took Him out of His throne and replaced by a pagan trinity god, god of Sunday keepers. SDA who should believe trinity will be ushered to worshiping on Sunday when enforced by the US... God bless my brother. We can’t betray one another but love one another in Christ’s name, or we will not receive the latter rain much more seal of God. God wants us to go back to Philadelphia condition not laodicean condition. God loves you so much and He wants you to give Him your full and implicit obedience! Love from your sister in Christ.....Nora Llaniguez
Shelton Donald "It is the unanimous opinion of the committee appointed to consider the matter of the Church Manual that it would not be advisable to have a Church Manual. We consider it unnecessary because we have already surmounted the greatest difficulties connected with church organization without one; and perfect harmony exists among us on this subject. It would seem to many like a step toward the formation of a creed or a discipline, other than the Bible, something we have always been opposed to as a denomination. If we had one, we fear many, especially those commencing to preach, would study it to obtain guidance in religious matters, rather that to seek for it in the Bible, and from the leading of the Spirit of God, which would tend to their hindrance in genuine religious experience, and in knowledge of the mind of the Spirit. It was in taking similar steps that other bodies of Christians first began to lose their simplicity and become formal and spiritually lifeless. Why should we imitate them? The committee feels, in short, that our tendency should be in the direction of the policy and close conformity of the Bible, rather than to elaborately defining every point in church management and church ordinances."
Being a pastor myself, I don't know Pastor Mueller personally, but I do respect any servant of God who gave his life in fulfilling the gospel commission. Unfortunately he is completely wrong in his viewpoint about how the "trinity" became part of our fundamental beliefs. It looks like he is seperating the german field from the world church - and maybe there was/is something in it, but historically correct is the following:
1. the church underwent major changes according to their understanding about the godhead much ealier than mentioned and promoted it. In 1911 the book 'Bible Doctrines' (O.A. Johnson - bible teacher at Walla Walla College) was published. Reflecting the ongoing change in our theology Johnson wrote: 'There are three persons of the Godhead' and 'The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Godhead' (O.A. Johnson, Bible Doctrines, p.26)
2. F.M. Wilcox wrote an article in 1913 which was published in the Review & Herald, October 9, 1913 (p. 21) which stated: '. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.' As early as 1913 the understanding of the godhead had change completely.
3. By the time of 1932 the church accepted an official 'declaration of faith' called 'Fundamental Beliefs' writing: '2. That the Godhead, or Trinity, consists of the Eternal Father, a personal, spiritual Being, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, infinite in wisdom and love; the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Eternal Father, through whom all things were created and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the great regenerating power in the work of redemption.' (Fundamental Beliefs, 1931, 377) F.M. Wilcox was one of the four persons offically appointed to prepare such a document.
Therefore it is a gross error to postulate that Neal C. Wilson was the one who 'introduced' the trinity into the adventist church. History proves the doubters wrong! The ongoing disputes about the trinity are a heavy burden, because of mislead tradition, ignorance towards the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy and a tendency to accept conspiracy theories. It makes me sad that some are not willing to learn according to the facts and to heat up long cherished convictions again and again.
For me it's like Clifford Goldstein said in a devotional in words to that effect: I cannot understanding that after 100 years there are still people who don't believe in the trinity.
Greetings,
A sincere believer in the trinity!
1.I pray that God will reveal truth to you
1.1 You are a Pastor and quoted zero Bible verses to support your trinity belief! Clifford Goldstein is not the word of God!
1.2 I am a sincere denier of the Satanic Babylonian belief of the trinity doctrine.... given to us by the Harlot that sits on many waters..... The Roman Catholic Church
BELOW IS HOW A LIE WORKS FROM A MASTER LIAR:
2. "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? "HATH GOD SAID"?
SO, let's apply Satans Strategy that bring confusion & Doubt over the plain words of God & His Son.....
3. Did God really say or mean 'Son" when he He said, "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?
Did Jesus really say or mean 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do"?
4. Trinitarians deny God and deny His Son! .....God isn't really a father and Jesus is not really a son????? According to Catholics, SDA';s and other protestants...SON & Father are Metaphors... GOD and Jesus didn't really mean Son or Father!!!! So the plain reading of the verses are LIES??? NEITHER GOD OR HIS SON MEANT WHAT THEY SAID!
5. 1 John 2:22 KJV
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
6.Below is a statement from the SDA Biblical Research Institute denying GOD the Father and His Son
"The metaphor is therefore a good symbol for the deep unity that exists within the members of the Godhead (John 17:5). Fourth, a human child comes from its parents through natural birth. In the case of the Godhead, however, the Son proceeded from the Father, not as a divine emanation or through natural birth, but to perform a work of creation and redemption (John 8:42; 16:28). There is no biblical support for the eternal generation of the Son from the Father. The Son came from God but was not generated by Him. Fifth, the father-son image cannot be literally applied to the divine Father-Son relationship within the Godhead. The Son is not the natural, literal Son of the Father. A natural child has a beginning, while within the Godhead the Son is eternal. The term “Son” is used metaphorically when applied to the Godhead. It conveys the ideas of distinction of persons within the Godhead and the equality of nature in the context of an eternal, loving relationship.
7. 1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
8.1 John 2
22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
The Catholic Church Pope and Leadership are full of demonic influences and have twisted and warped the truth that God made so plain ..Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
9. THE RCC gave us the Babylonian Trinity Gods “The trinity got its start in Ancient Babylon
with Nimrod - Tammuz - and Semiramis.
Semiramis demanded worship for both her husband
and her son as well as herself. She claimed
that her son, was both the father and the son.
Yes, he was “god the father” and “god the son” -
The first divine incomprehensible trinity.”
.
Please humble yourself to our Father and ask him to reveal the truth to you. THE SATANIC LIES DENYING GOD & HIS SON HAVE DELUDED THE WORLD
Matthew 16:15
JESUS SAID:
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Sadly, THE SDA Church is now an apostate religion...prophesied by E .G White.
WE NEED To PRAY, FAST AND CRY BEFORE THE LORD TO HOLD US in Faith Love and Truth.
Thank you for the info but the sheer fact that it was ever altered from the pioneers understanding is a red flag enough for me. I'm pretty sure in a couple years the world will be saying "I can't believe that there's people who STILL keep the Sabbath"
Beautiful interview and praise God some saw the error and stood against it, neat to hear the 1st hand experience. Shabbat shalom from NZ
Funny how I do not see one desenting view here. Lol Amazing how we only have his word. This video gives NOT ONE verse to support this NON-Trinitarian viewpoint. There are TWO versions of the Trinity. There is the Roman Catholic version and there is INDEED a Biblical truth... which is supported by Ellen G White - "Evangelism" - Misrepresentations of the Godhead - starting page 613. I suppose I could give a half dozen or more LOGICAL / REASONABLE / SOUND scriptures that support this. However, someone will either 1) delete my post or 2) Put a bunch of scriptures or Ellen G White quotes taken out of context. Shame for shame! We have been warned to not talk about this subject. Maranatha!
Australia likes what you are saying
This retired minister says that he didn't know about the doctrine of Trinity in the SDA church, neither they taught in SDA school where he got his training. The SDA church has been teaching the Godhead (Trinity) for very long time even though they struggled with the subject in the formative stage of the SDA movement. The majority of early Adventists came to the Adventist movement from non-trinitarian churches. For example, the very first Adventists James White and Joseph bates were former ordained pastors of 'Christian Connexion unitarian(anti-trinitairan) Church' in 1840's. Slowly but surely God led this movement to the truth through the prophetic ministry of sister Ellen White. Our early pioneers themselves did not fully understand the Trinity in the beginning, but as they learned deeper they understood the favorite Catholic Trinity at this time, and they rejected Catholics counterfeit Trinity. However, the modern day mistaken "SDA" anti-trinitarain claim that the "SDA pioneers" rejected the Trinity! But they wouldn't tell you what Trinity, they had rejected!
What Trinity were the early pioneers had rejected? It was the Catholic counterfeit Trinity that they had rejected.
What is the Catholic Trinity and WHY did the pioneers reject it?
Roman Catholicism teaches that the Son comes out of the Father and the Holy Spirit comes from both;-and yet there is only one God! That is -- it maintains the trinity is ONE being of substance, and this substance is shared by three hypostases or distinct projections or persons that constitute Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Father generates the Son, and together they spirate or "breath out" the Spirit. There is no Son apart from the Father and no Holy Spirit apart from both. Now this teaching stems from the 4th century roots of Arian heresy. so they say Christ is not eternal, and no-separate-Holy Spirit.
Do the Seventh-Day Adventists teach the Catholic Trinity? Not at all!
What is the SDA Trinity? The SDA's believe the Trinity is the union of three (Father, Christ and Holy Spirit), and they are "three living persons of the heavenly trio" unified as One God. The God (Elohim is a plurality) of three distinct persons, in perfect UNITY as 'ONE GOD'. They are not three gods, but ONE God in three persons ETERNALLY SELF-EXISTENT.
The Bible and Spirit of Prophecy affirms this truth:
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
“The eternal Godhead-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”- Upward Look, 148.
"There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)”
Here is what the BRI says:
Nature of God. A reading of the above statements will show that with respect to their doctrine of God Seventh-day Adventists are in harmony with the great creedal statements of Christendom, including the Apostles' Creed, Nicea 325), and the additional definition of faith concerning the Holy Spirit as reached in Constantinople (381).
source: adventistbiblicalresearch.org/materials/adventist-heritage-conversations-other-christians-catholics/seventh-day-adventists-brief
Where in the bible that teaches the doctrine of the trinity or truine god?
ž
ž “While no single scripture passage states the doctrine of the Trinity, it is assumed as a fact…only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity.”
(Adventist Review, vol.158, No.31,p4)
ž
ž “The concept of the Trinity, namely the idea that the three are one, is not explicitly stated but only assumed.” - Fernando L. Canale, the Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopedia vol. 12, p.138,’Doctrine of God’
ž
1.I pray that God will reveal truth to you
1.2 I am a sincere denier of the Satanic Babylonian belief of the trinity doctrine.... given to us by the Harlot that sits on many waters..... The Roman Catholic Church
BELOW IS HOW A LIE WORKS FROM A MASTER LIAR:
2. "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? "HATH GOD SAID"?
SO, let's apply Satans Strategy that bring confusion & Doubt over the plain words of God & His Son.....
3. Did God really say or mean 'Son" when he He said, "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?
Did Jesus really say or mean 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do"?
4. Trinitarians deny God and deny His Son! .....God isn't really a father and Jesus is not really a son????? According to Catholics, SDA';s and other protestants...SON & Father are Metaphors... GOD and Jesus didn't really mean Son or Father!!!! So the plain reading of the verses are LIES??? NEITHER GOD OR HIS SON MEANT WHAT THEY SAID!
5. 1 John 2:22 KJV
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
6.Below is a statement from the SDA Biblical Research Institute denying GOD the Father and His Son
"The metaphor is therefore a good symbol for the deep unity that exists within the members of the Godhead (John 17:5). Fourth, a human child comes from its parents through natural birth. In the case of the Godhead, however, the Son proceeded from the Father, not as a divine emanation or through natural birth, but to perform a work of creation and redemption (John 8:42; 16:28). There is no biblical support for the eternal generation of the Son from the Father. The Son came from God but was not generated by Him. Fifth, the father-son image cannot be literally applied to the divine Father-Son relationship within the Godhead. The Son is not the natural, literal Son of the Father. A natural child has a beginning, while within the Godhead the Son is eternal. The term “Son” is used metaphorically when applied to the Godhead. It conveys the ideas of distinction of persons within the Godhead and the equality of nature in the context of an eternal, loving relationship.
7. 1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
8.1 John 2
22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
The Catholic Church Pope and Leadership are full of demonic influences and have twisted and warped the truth that God made so plain ..Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
9. THE RCC gave us the Babylonian Trinity Gods “The trinity got its start in Ancient Babylon
with Nimrod - Tammuz - and Semiramis.
Semiramis demanded worship for both her husband
and her son as well as herself. She claimed
that her son, was both the father and the son.
Yes, he was “god the father” and “god the son” -
The first divine incomprehensible trinity.”
.
Please humble yourself to our Father and ask him to reveal the truth to you. THE SATANIC LIES DENYING GOD & HIS SON HAVE DELUDED THE WORLD
Matthew 16:15
JESUS SAID:
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Sadly, THE SDA Church is now an apostate religion...prophesied by E .G White.
WE NEED To PRAY, FAST AND CRY BEFORE THE LORD TO HOLD US in Faith Love and Truth.
Matt Dooley of Line of Truth Ministries says....
"Jesus is as fully divine as His Father. Just because we believe Jesus' personality had a beginning does not mean that HE IS AN INFERIOR OR LESSER God. Nor does a hierarchy between the Father and Son IMPLY THAT THE SON IS INFERIOR AS WELL."
Then he says in an article concerning Revelation 1:7,8
"I can see how some would apply verse 8 to Jesus, but we need to understand that John is the one speaking of Christ’s second coming, AND NOT CHRIST HIMSELF SPEAKING".
So, first He says Jesus is not inferior to God, then He has a problem with God's Holy Prophet, John, telling you Jesus is God Almighty in Rev. 1:8, which makes Jesus equal to God!
He's forced to interpret Rev. 1:7,8 that way, because the SDA pioneer, Uriah Smith, said that was not Jesus Almighty in Rev. 1:8.
And Matt Dooley believes in studying the belief system of the SDA pioneers, which prevents him from hearing what the Holy Spirit has to say.
That's God's Holy Prophet, John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation, speaking in Rev. 1:7,8.
Matt Dooley, is not one of God's Holy Prophets. He has never been 'IN THE SPIRIT'!
Uriah Smith is not one of God's Holy Prophets.
Matt Dooley, does not have the credentials to challenge the plain statement of one of God's Holy Prophets, who was IN THE SPIRIT throughout the vision he calls 'the unveiling'.
The only valid hierarchy I see, is this.
1. God
2. God's Holy Prophets
3. Matt Dooley
Who is Matt Dooley compared to God's Holy Prophet John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation?
Answer: A NOBODY.....
And Matt Dooley has blasphemed the Holy Spirit, because God's Holy Prophet John was 'in the Spirit' throughout the Revelation.
Matt Dooley speaks with forked tongue.
Let's not forget that, "begotten", referring to the Son of God, is NOT PRESENT in the Aramaic Versions of the New Testament, which I believe are more reliable than the Greek "original", but only "The Unique Son of God", and also let's remind ourselves that in Christ's case, He now has two natures, one eternal, and one "incarnated" as of two millenia ago, and as of eternity planned as such. Also much care should be exercised and not confuse some references regarding either of His natures. Yes, the word Trinity is totally absent in the Scriptures, but the concept is abundantly present in both Old and New Testaments. From the VERY START we see God in the Scriptures as coming in the plural form, and The Holy Spirit is clearly present. The warning recorded in John 8:24 should be taken extremely serious...
@ Carson LLANGUEZ: The Bible and Spirit of Prophecy affirm that Jesus is that "I AM"> This phrase is as same as the name Jehovah, meaning "The Eternal Presence". The phrase, "The Lord" is a substitute for the name Yahoweh (YHWH) in the Old Testament! So Jesus is Yahweh ("Jehovah") the Eternal Presence.
Jesus Himself said that If you believe not " "I AM" is HE, you will die in your sins" in John 8:24:
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, ye shall die in your sins" (also see Isaiah 46:4).
Christ at the Burning bush DECLARED.....
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath SENT ME UNTO YOU. Exodus 3:14." (The Faith I Live By, Page 47The Great “I AM”, February 10).
"It was Christ who from the bush on Mount Horeb spoke to Moses saying, “I AM THAT I AM.... Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” Exodus 3:14. This was the pledge of Israel's deliverance. So when He came “in the likeness of men,” He declared Himself the I AM" (Ellen G White, The Desire of Ages, p. 24)
"Silence fell upon the vast assembly. THE NAME OF GOD, given to Moses TO EXPRESS THE IDEA OF THE ETERNAL PRESENCE, had been claimed AS HIS OWN by this GALILEAN RABBI. HE had announced HIMSELF TO BE THE SELF-EXISTENT ONE, He who had been promised to Israel, “whose goings forth have been from of old, FROM THE DAYS OF ETERNITY.” Micah 5:2, margin.(The Desire of Ages, Page 469-470).
Shelton Donald yes Jesus is the I am because all authority is given to Him by the Father who is above Him, because he said my Father is greater than I am!
Does the Son of God ever speak His own words? Does He not speak the words of His Father always? Was He not speaking on behalf of His Father but in first person speech when He said the words of the great I Am? Just as He was speaking in third person speech when He referred to Himself as "another Comforter"? He was a Comforter in the flesh for 33 years. Now He is a Comforter in spirit post ascension.
Ellen says the Son of God is the Father's thought made audible (DA 19.2). He has been the voice, the word, the presence, the Father's name is in Him since the fall of man. Exodus 23:20-23 makes this very clear. And so does the last day prophet EGW in Story of Redemption, p. 50.3, par. 18 where Christ says through Ellen, "...Without the atonement of the Son of God there could be no communication of blessing or salvation from God to man. To Adam in his innocency was granted communion direct, free, and happy, with his Maker. After his transgression God would communicate to man through Christ and His angels." For this statement to be true, and I believe it is, the Holy Spirit can not be a 3rd "being".
"The Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the only begotten Son of God, binds human agent, body, soul, and spirit to the perfect, divine - human nature of Christ." RH, April 15, 1906 par. 16
"The ONLY being who was one with God lived the law in humanity, descended to the lowly life of a common laborer, and toiled at the carpenter's bench with His earthly parent." ST, Oct 14, 1897 par. 3
Is the Father or the Son ever referred to as an "it" or a "thing" in Scripture or the SOP? No! They are not, not ever! But the spirit is often referred to as an "it" or a "thing". If the Holy Spirit were a co-equal and co-eternal being how would you explain that?
To promote trinitarianism in the SDA church many of Ellen's quotes where she under the inspiration of Christ refers to the Holy Spirit as "it" have been dishonestly & fraudulently changed to "he, him, & his".
"The spirit is freely given us of God if we appreciate and accept IT, and what is IT? the representation of Jesus Christ. IT is to be our constant helper. IT is through the spirit that Christ fulfills His promise, "I will never leave thee nor forsake thee." 1888 Materials, p. 1538
"The Lord is soon to come. We want that complete and perfect understanding which the Lord alone can give. It is not safe to catch the spirit from another. We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ." EGW, Letter 66 - 1894, par. 18
Ellen under inspiration also makes it very clear that Lucifer and then Gabriel after Satan was cast out held the 3rd highest rank in heaven. If the HS is a 3rd co-equal & co-eternal divine "being" this would be a huge problem, would it not?
"The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficense. He had A co-worker... Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God was one with the eternal Father - one in nature, in character, in purpose - the ONLY being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God." PP p. 34.1
Compare the above statement with GC p. 492-493 which is almost identical but also states that Satan, in whom sin originated, sat NEXT to Christ, and had been most honored by God. Again, a Trinity God the Holy Spirit as a being is not accounted for.
"They have one God and one Savior; and one spirit -- the spirit of Christ -- is to bring unity into their ranks." T-9, p. 189, 1909
Christ through Ellen also makes it very clear that the Father did bring forth His Son in the ages of eternity past. The Father had a literal Son to give to the world.
"God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been GIVEN an exalted position. He has been MADE equal with His Father. All the counsel's of God are opened to His Son." T-8 p. 268.3
See also DA p. 166.2, RH August 26, 1890. Par. 10
In ST August 29, 1900 Ellen states that Christ is speaking through Solomon in Proverbs 8:22-36 and describes His coming forth from His Father before He and His Father created anything.
Not a single soul truthfully studying the God of the Bible and His Son believes that Jesus isn't fully divine, fully God, deserving of our worship and praise. But we do believe Jesus has a God, His Father, and that He worships and praises Him as He has taught us to. But the great Sovereign one true God and Source of all does NOT worship anyone, not even His Son.
Sure, sure? You can be a pastor your whole life for apotate sda, as long as you dont preach against trinity, you can preach till you drop dead
Without proper understanding of Godhead the plan of redemption becomes hazy.
It's not safe when we try to bring God to human level so as to understand Him.
The commentators in this forum who compare God the Father and Son relationship with that of earthly father and son have it all twisted and are in no way different from Muslims who postulate same arguments.
The word of God, right from Genesis to Revelation, is clear about Trinity.
Trinity is not Tri-theism as most want us to believe.
The Godhead has told us Who and what He is, and one of the principal reason as to why the Jews crucified Jesus was because He claimed to be God.
The God of the Bible has clearly stated that He is three in one, why is it so hard for people to agree with Him?
The Bible is a salvation story and it written in a language humans can relate to and hence the reason why some in this forum think there are contradictions. If we read everything within it's context then we get better understanding of the plan of redemption and how it impacted the heart of God.
how can we know Him truly if he is already a mystery to begin with? We can know Him as far as He has revealed Himself. Jesus receives all the power and glory from the Father, yet the Father is the head of Christ. Otherwise, why did God make 2 people and not 3? We are made in His image. So he made it clear for us to understand him. That is eternal life, the true knowledge of the Father and the Son.
@ Carson LLANNGUEZ: When was Christ "begotten,"? Was it in heaven or on earth??
Psalm 2:7 (KJV) "I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN THEE."
When was Christ called the First begotten?
Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angles said he at any time thou art my son THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE and again I WILL BE TO HIM A FATHER and HE SHALL BE TO ME A SON? And again when he bringeth in the first begotten in to the world he saith let all the angels of God worship"
Note: God says to the Son, “this day I have begotten thee”.
What day is “THIS DAY”?
Acts 13:33 God hath FULFILLED the same unto us their children in that he HATH RAISED JESUS UP again as it is also written in the SECOND PSALM thou art my son THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE.
Note: When Jesus was resurrected, Father proclaimed “thou art my Son this day have I begotten”. Therefore, when Jesus was raised to life, he became the first begotten.
Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angles said he at any time thou art my son THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE thee and again I will be to him A FATHER and he shall be to me A SON? And again when he bringeth in the first begotten in to the world he saith let all the angels of God worship" (See also Romans 1:3-4)
What does the word "first born"(begotten) signify?
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body the church who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead: THAT IN ALL THINGS he might have THE PREEMINENCE.
Jesus is called the first begotten when he was resurrected. The term firstborn also means preeminence which signifies that without him, there is no resurrection. When it says He is the "first born of every creature" (Col 1:15), it means without him, there is no creation
"Begotten" as it refers to Jesus' birth does not mean given birth by God. It means a unique Being that was given to mankind as a gift.
Isaiah 9:6 (KJV)
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:"
Jesus gave Himself for humanity, and the Father sent Him at the appointed time. The term, "Son" does not mean Jesus physically came out of the Father's loins. After all, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and she conceived Him.
Matthew 1:18 (KJV)
"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."
Right we see there being a thinking Being called the Holy Ghost/Spirit which contradicts those who disown the Trinity teaching.
begotten means that He received the nature of the Father. not that He was first of ressurection.
Adventist Review 7-30-1981 Special Issue on Bible Doctrines - The Trinity was explained one year after it was voted as an official doctrine of the church (which was in 1980; initially composed of 27 fundamental beliefs).
It states, "While no single scriptural passage states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, it is assumed as a fact by Bible writers... Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity." (p. 4) [Adventist Review, Vol 158, No. 31, p.4
"The role of the trinity in a doctrine of God always raises questions. One reason
is that the word itself does not appear in the Bible, NOR IS THERE ANY CLEAR STATEMENT OF THE IDEA. But the Bible does set the stage for its formulation, and the concept represents a development of biblical claims and concepts. SO EVEN THOUGH THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY IS NOT PART OF WHAT THE BIBLE ITSELF SAYS ABOUT GOD, IT IS PART OF WHAT THE CHURCH MUST SAY to safeguard the biblical view of God." - Richard Rice, The Reign of God, An Introduction to Christian Theology from a
Seventh-day Adventist Perspective’, page 89, 'A constructive proposal', 1985
Our current church leaders even admit to the fact that the trinity is simply 'ASSUMED' from the Bible ... "While NO SINGLE SCRIPTURAL PASSAGE states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, it is ASSUMED as a fact by Bible writers... Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity." (Adventist Review, July, 1981 - Special Issue on Bible Doctrines)
“While no single Scripture passage states the doctrine of the Trinity, it is assumed as a fact... only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity.” - (Adventist Review, Vol. 158, No. 31, p. 4)
“The concept of the Trinity, namely the IDEA THAT THE THREE ARE ONE, IS NOT EXPLICITLY STATED BUT ONLY ASSUMED.” - Fernando L. Canale, The Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopaedia, Volume 12, page 138, ‘Doctrine of God’
Where though in Scripture can be found such an idea? The answer is, it cannot be found. This is because it is not there. It is purely supposition (philosophical speculation). This is why the trinity doctrine is only an assumed doctrine. This is even duly recognized in our own denominational handbook of theology: “The concept of the Trinity, namely the IDEA THAT THE THREE ARE ONE, IS NOT EXPLICITLY STATED BUT ONLY ASSUMED.” - Fernando L. Canale, The Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopaedia, Volume 12, page 138, ‘Doctrine of God’
Just read Rome’s Challenge. Well the Catholic Church also has something to say about the Trinity.
maranathamedia.com/downloads/library/charts/glm/pdf/04%20False%20Gospel/06)%20Attack%20on%20the%20Father%20and%20Son%20.pdf
“Our opponents [Protestants] sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture (ignoring that it is only on the authority of the Church we recognize certain Gospels and not others as true). But the Protestant churches have themselves accepted such dogmas as the Trinity for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels... it is our claim that Tradition alone - founded on the Apostles' teaching, analyzed and reflected on through the ages by the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit promised by Christ - illumines the full and true meaning of the Scriptures.” (The Catholic Church's New Dogma: The Assumption Of Mary By Graham Green, LIFE, Oct.30, 1950, (emphasis in [brackets] supplied).
Below links to more than three witnesses as to who introduced the trinity doctrine into the SDA Church
www.asitreads.com/leroy-froom
www.trinitytruth.org/leroyfroomandevangelism.html
phm.org/froomism/
theprophetstillspeaks.co.uk/dethis/zrDHS44.htm
www.end-times-prophecy.org/deception-adventist-church.html
www.smyrna.org/Books/ff/ff_pdf/ff21.pdf
thethirdangelsmessage.com/as_much_a_person.php
www.trinityorheresy.org/EVIDENCE6B.html
theos.institute/
"Thousands have a FALSE CONCEPTION of God and His attributes. They are as verily serving a FALSE GOD AS WERE THE SERVANTS OF BAAL. Are we worshiping the true God as HE is revealed in HIS word, in Christ, in nature, OR ARE WE ADORING SOME PHILOSOPHICAL IDOL ENSHRINED IN HIS PLACE? God is a God of truth." (E. White, Testimonies for the Church, Vol.5, p.174)
"I knew that the omega would follow in a little while; and I trembled for our people. I knew that I must warn our brethren and sisters not to enter into controversy over the presence and personality of God ... The spiritualistic theories regarding the personality of God, followed to their logical conclusion, sweep away the whole Christian economy." (E. White, Testimonies for the Church Containing Letters to Physicians and Ministers Instruction to Seventh-day Adventists, pgr. 53-54)
"I entreat everyone to be clear and firm regarding the certain truths that we have heard and received and advocated. The statements of God's Word are plain. Plant your feet firmly on the platform of eternal truth. Reject every phase of error, even though it be covered with a semblance of reality, which denies the personality of God and of Christ." (E.White, Review and Herald, Aug.31, 1905, par.11)
Religion researcher Karen Armstrong explains, “The Trinity only made sense as a mystical or spiritual experience ... It was not a logical or intellectual formulation but an imaginative paradigm that confounded reason. Gregory of Nazianzus made this clear when he explained that contemplation of the Three in One induced a profound and overwhelming emotion that confounded thought and intellectual clarity. 'No sooner do I conceive of the One than I am illumined by the splendor of the Three; no sooner do I distinguish Three than I am carried back into the One. When I think of any of the Three, I think of him as the whole, and my eyes are filled, and the greater part of what I am thinking escapes me.” - (p. 117). So Karen Armstrong concludes, it is little wonder that, “For many Western Christians ... the Trinity is simply baffling.” - (ibid.)
Don't need a Trinity to prove your One and only God belief, from scripture, IS NOT FROM GOD!
The following involves the Testimony of the only human source in all of the Bible that has seen God FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN.
He sees clearly.
YOU DON'T, I DON'T, and no one in scripture does, with the exception of the one about to be shown to you.
You are contradicting the plain testimony of the only human source recorded in the Bible, who has seen God face to face clearly, in heaven, SENT BY JESUS FROM HEAVEN!!!
1 Corinthians 13:12
JESUS SENT HIS 'angel' , 'messenger' in the Koine Greek of the Revelation, from heaven, where he has seen God face to face, CLEARLY, to the Prophet John.
Rev. 22:16
That 'angel' JESUS SENT, calls Jesus WHO SENT HIM, LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS!
And that 'angel' JESUS SENT, tells the Holy Prophet John, that He also is one of God's Holy Prophets!
Rev. 22:6-9.
Now should you choose not to believe Jesus, God's Holy Prophet John who recorded this vision, and God's Holy Prophet sent from heaven seeing clearly, THE ONLY HUMAN SEEING GOD CLEARLY FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN....
Well, there are some negative eternal consequences to consider.
Since God's Holy Prophet, John, who sees and hears this vision is 'in the Spirit' throughout this vision, you are not only calling Jesus, the Holy Prophet He sent from heaven, the Prophet John who recorded this vision, and God who gifted this vision, and ALL OF GOD'S HOLY PROPHETS, liars, you are also calling the Holy Spirit a liar, WHICH CANNOT BE FORGIVEN.
Matthew 12:31,32 .
No eternal life for you...
Further confirmation of that fact follows...
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Rev. 22:19
JESUS BLOTS YOUR NAME OUT OF HIS BOOK OF LIFE.
Rev. 3:5 Rev. 21:27
Thus, JESUS IS GOD.
Can you think of a more terrifying outcome to calling Jesus, God, a liar, then losing your eternal life?
@@clarawagon9019 You are posting the same message. Your comments does not proof anything. See my response on link: th-cam.com/video/Jnv_rYvhB5M/w-d-xo.html&feature=em-comments
I became an Adventist in 1978. They were preaching the Trinity.
Aside from that, there is a little problem with Line of Truth Ministries understanding of God, you should be aware of.
Matt Dooley of Line of Truth Ministries says....
"Jesus is as fully divine as His Father. Just because we believe Jesus' personality had a beginning does not mean that HE IS AN INFERIOR OR LESSER God. Nor does a hierarchy between the Father and Son IMPLY THAT THE SON IS INFERIOR AS WELL."
Then he says in an article concerning Revelation 1:7,8
"I can see how some would apply verse 8 to Jesus, but we need to understand that John is the one speaking of Christ’s second coming, AND NOT CHRIST HIMSELF SPEAKING".
So, first He says Jesus is not inferior to God, then He has a problem with God's Holy Prophet, John, telling you Jesus is God Almighty in Rev. 1:8, which makes Jesus equal to God!
He's forced to interpret Rev. 1:7,8 that way, because the SDA pioneer, Uriah Smith, said that was not Jesus Almighty in Rev. 1:8.
And Matt Dooley believes in studying the belief system of the SDA pioneers, which prevents him from hearing what the Holy Spirit has to say.
That's God's Holy Prophet, John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation, speaking in Rev. 1:7,8.
Matt Dooley, is not one of God's Holy Prophets. He has never been 'IN THE SPIRIT'!
Uriah Smith is not one of God's Holy Prophets.
Matt Dooley, does not have the credentials to challenge the plain statement of one of God's Holy Prophets, who was IN THE SPIRIT throughout the vision he calls 'the unveiling'.
The only valid hierarchy I see, is this.
1. God
2. God's Holy Prophets
3. Matt Dooley
Who is Matt Dooley compared to God's Holy Prophet John, 'IN THE SPIRIT' throughout the Revelation?
Answer: A NOBODY.....
And Matt Dooley has blasphemed the Holy Spirit, because God's Holy Prophet John was 'in the Spirit' throughout the Revelation.
Matt Dooley speaks with forked tongue.
I'm quite sure that this Pastor, is unaware of the fact that in the vision given by God, Revelation in English, 'the unveiling' in the original Koine Greek, Jesus sends His 'angel' from heaven, Rev. 22:16 seeing clearly, 1 Corinthians 13:12,, to His Prophet John, and the 'angel' Jesus sent tells John, Jesus IS LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS, AND ALSO INFORMS US THAT HE IS ALSO ONE OF GOD'S HOLY PROPHETS. Rev. 22:6-9.
That makes Jesus GOD. The Holy Spirit? The Testimony of Jesus IS THE SPIRIT....Rev. 19:10.
I'm far more interested in what God's Prophet John has to say, after seeing and hearing Jesus' Prophet, sent from heaven, seeing clearly, 1 Corinthians 13:12, has to say.
The Pastor here, and obviously the entire Line of Truth Ministries, do not see clearly. 1 Corinthians 13:12.
"Why do you call me good Jesus replied ? None are good except God." - Mark 10 16-19
Yeshua isn't literally God
Did this pastor say that Jesus was not God? Can you find the time stamp?
Part 1 of 3 Most people think that the book “EV” or “Evangelism” is written by Ellen White. LeRoy Froom is the authors and the book is written by Froom in 1946 which was 30 years after the death of Ellen White. It is alleged that Froom was a Catholic Priest before he entered the Adventist Church and some suspect him of being a Jesuit. He did and said things that an Adventist would never do.
On the 14 December 1955, Leroy Froom in a letter to Reuben Figuhr wrote, “I was publicly denounced in the chapel at the Washington Missionary College by Dr. B. G. Wilkinson as the most dangerous man in this denomination.” This took place in the mid 1940's. I believe Dr. B.G. Wilkinson had very good reason for doing this much to the disgruntlement of Froom.
With the intent to deceive, Froom placed quotes from Ellen White in his book where she had said “third person”, “three great powers” and “Heavenly trio.” But we have now seen that the “third person”, “third great power” and the third entity in the “Heavenly trio” all refer to the Spirit of Christ and not another being. Now you know how Froom managed to lead the entire SDA Church astray because people did not take the time to look at what else Ellen White wrote. She in fact wrote non-Trinitarian statements right through to her death which is very easy to confirm if people would only take the time to look.
Many Adventists are in denial and claim that God would never allow error to get into His Church. But Ellen White in fact informed us that serious errors would enter the Adventist Church. You continually find such statements being perpetuated in the Adventist Church. God would never allow that to happen, or just because it is Catholic, that does not mean it is wrong, or Ellen White was a Trinitarian and then became non-Trinitarian and then became Trinitarian again. Many such lies are constantly being taught and perpetuated to keep Adventists trapped in a serious lie from Satan.
Ellen White wrote this at least eleven years after it was claimed she had become a Trinitarian.
“And now, after half a century of clear light from the Word as to what is truth, there are arising many false theories, to unsettle minds. But the evidence given in our early experience has the same force that it had then. The truth is the same as it ever has been, and not a pin or a pillar can be moved from the structure of truth. That which was sought for out of the Word in 1844, 1845, and 1846 remains the truth today in every particular.” - (E.G. White, Letter 38, 1906)
It was in this three year period that the Pillars of our Faith were established. So more than 11 years after she supposedly became a Trinitarian, she states that the truths established in these years remained the same in every way still in 1906. So this is a declaration from her that the non-Trinitarian view they held in this period is still truth in every particular.
This quote below was one of the main quotes Froom used to deceive the Church and if you read this quote with the mindset of a Trinitarian, you will conclude that the Holy Spirit is another being. Keep in mind that such a conclusion would contradict everything Ellen White wrote above. Note the two sources listed.
“We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.” - (Ellen G. White, Sermons and Talks Volume 2, pp. 136, 137, 1899) - Evangelism p. 616.5
So if your mindset is that of a Trinitarian, you would conclude she is saying the Holy Spirit is another being.
Here is the full quote which is actually referring to Christ.
“The Lord [Jesus] says this because He knows it is for our good. He would build a wall around us, to keep us from transgression, so that His blessing and love may be bestowed on us in rich measure. This is the reason we have established a school here. The Lord [Jesus] instructed us that this was the place in which we should locate, and we have had every reason to think that we are in the right place. We have been brought together as a school, and we need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds, unseen by human eyes; that the Lord God is our Keeper and Helper. He hears every word we utter and knows every thought of the mind.” - (Ellen G. White, Sermons and Talks Volume 2, pp. 136, 137, 1899)
You may like to reread the quotes on point 11 as a reminder of just how clearly Ellen White states that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ. If you read the above quote with the knowledge that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ as Ellen White revealed over and over again in every possible way, it no longer appears as a Trinitarian quote. Replace Holy Spirit with Christ by His Spirit and read the quote again according to what Ellen White teaches.
“We need to realize that CHRIST by His SPIRIT, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.” - (Ellen G. White, Sermons and Talks Volume 2, pp. 136, 137, 1899) - Evangelism p. 616.5
And do not forget when reading this quote that Ellen White calls Christ by His Spirit a “person” that is of course “unseen.”
“When trials overshadow the soul, remember the words of Christ, remember that He is an unseen presence in the PERSON of the Holy Spirit,” - (Ellen G. White, DG 185.2, 1897)
So does it still look like a Trinitarian quote? Not a chance.
Le Roy Froom was best known in the Seventh-day Adventist church for his work as editor for several church publications, a church historian, secretary of the General Conference Ministerial Association, and author of several books.
"May I here make a frank, personal confession? When back between 1926 and 1928 I was asked by our leaders to give a series of studies on the Holy Spirit ... I found that aside from priceless leads found in the Spirit of Prophecy, there was practically nothing in our literature setting forth a sound, Biblical exposition in this tremendous field of study. There were no previous pathfinding books on the question in our literature." (LeRoy Froom, Movement of Destiny, p.322)
Froom falsify the history about the original SDA pioneer position regarding the trinity. This revisionist history can be seen in the books Questions on Doctrine and Movement of Destiny. While Froom is not the originator of this tactic he is most certainly the key perpetrator and popularizer of it.
The movement to adopt Trinitarianism and to become like the rest of the world was on. Ellen White predicted that "books of a new order would be written." In 1928 Le Roy Froom's book, The Coming of the Comforter, was published. In this book, Froom teaches the false doctrine of the Trinity and, as John Harvey Kellogg did before him, he uses Ellen White quotes to substantiate his position. This book was the result of studies that Froom had given during the 1928 North American Union Ministerial Institute. At the time of the writing, Froom did not mention that he received help from Babylon in producing his book. What does Babylon symbolize? Confusion, false doctrine, false worship, paganism. It was over forty years later before he would confess strangely in his book, Movement of Destiny, on page 322:
seeker, while I agree that Froom was dangerous to the SDA truth, what did Ellen White mean when she often wrote of the "Three highest powers of heaven"?
@@earlysda: Three Highest Powers, Three Great Powers, and Three Worthies of Heaven are all quotes where we find these phases used by Ellen White in the context of the Kellogg crisis.
Ellen White is often said to have believed in the trinity. One quote that is used to substantiate this belief is where she speaks of the ‘three living persons of the heavenly trio’. This quote was popularised in Evangelism and also appears in In Heavenly Places and in the SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7a in the Appendix on the Godhead. In her lifetime, it appeared in Bible Training School of March 1, 1906 [titled ‘The Father, Son and Holy Ghost’] and Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 07.
If we read and study what and how Sister White referred to three persons or personalities, or three great powers, she identifies the third as the Holy Spirit. But who does she say is the Holy Spirit?
*“The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.”* - 14MR, p. 84.3
She also calls the Spirit of Christ a person with a distinct personality and hence three living persons or personalities.
*’Remember the words of Christ, remember that He is the unseen presence in the person of the Holy Spirit.’* - Daughters of God, p. 185.2, Letter 124, March 7, 1897.
This is how Ellen White penned the non-physical/omni presence: ‘Nothing can happen in any part of the universe without the knowledge *of Him who is omnipresent.’* ST July 14, 1881, par. 8 m.egwwritings.org/search?lang=en&query
She continues and says *'Not a single event of human life is unknown to our Maker.'* [Ibid]
She also wrote, *"They did not think that the subject of their conversation was walking by their side; FOR CHRIST REFERRED TO HIMSELF AS THOUGH HE WERE ANOTHER PERSON."* - E. White, Desire of Ages, p.800.1
This is why Paul could say, *‘Christ in you’, ‘Christ that liveth in me’, ‘let this mind be in you’,* etc So, the spirit of truth is the spirit of Jesus, our comforter. [John 16:13].
Jesus is speaking of Himself in the spirit as another person. We notice this also in John 14:16, 17 [Another comforter]. Jesus often spoke this way. [See John 17:3; 5:19, 23; 3:13-16; Matthew 24:30-37; 25:13, 31].
Froom gathered quotes from SOP and that is found in his book Evangelism. Most think that these quotes called “EV” or “Evangelism” are from a book written by Ellen White. But it was written by Froom in 1946 which was 30 years after the death of Ellen White. With the intent to deceive, Froom placed quotes from Ellen White in his book where she had said “third person”, “three great powers” and “Heavenly trio.” But the “third person”, “third great power” and the third entity in the “Heavenly trio” *all refer to the Spirit of Christ and not another being.* This is how Froom managed to lead the entire Adventist Church astray because many SDA does not take the time to look at what else Ellen White wrote. She in fact wrote non-Trinitarian statements right through to her death which is very easy to confirm if people would only take the time to look.
In looking at what else she wrote we find the answer remains the same every time.
She said the Comforter is the Spirit of Christ, The Spirit of truth is the Spirit of Christ,
The third person is the Spirit of Christ, The third great power is the Spirit of Christ,
The Holy Spirit given at Pentecost was the Spirit of Christ, The Holy Spirit Jesus breathed on His disciples was His own Spirit, The Holy Spirit Christ sent to represent Himself was His own Spirit, The Heavenly trio is the Father, Son, and Spirit of Christ, And *she reveals over and over again that there are only two distinct beings.*
Any individual with a Trinitarian mindset assumes that the third power etc, must be a third being. Similarly, with the heavenly trio. But says who? A Trinity is ALWAYS three beings, but a trio is NOT. We need to let SOP explain SOP rather than assume.
Ellen White taught that the Father and Son are one in Spirit and that the SPIRIT OF GOD comes to us through His only begotten Son. Thus, she called the HOLY SPIRIT the SPIRIT OF CHRIST.
*“The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of CHRIST,* which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency,” - 14MR 84.3.
*“We want the HOLY SPIRIT, which is JESUS CHRIST.”* - 9LtMs, Lt 66, 1894, par. 18
“but it is the leaven of *the SPIRIT of JESUS CHRIST, which is sent down from heaven, called the HOLY GHOST,”* - Ms36-1891, par. 42.
Since Ellen White says the HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, then she has to be saying the “Heavenly Trio” is the FATHER, SON and the SPIRIT OF CHRIST or she would be contradicting herself.
Hence, she did in fact write those exact words proving beyond any doubt this is who she called the Trio. So, letting SOP explain SOP, here is the “heavenly trio” according to Ellen White.
“They have *ONE* God and *ONE* Saviour; and *ONE* Spirit-- *the Spirit of Christ* --is to bring unity into their ranks.” - 9T, 1909, 189.3.
The third power = ONE + ONE + ONE = “the Spirit of Christ.”
All of Ellen White’s “so-called” Trinitarian statements lack all the core elements of Trinitarianism.
The core elements of the doctrine of the Trinity are oneness and distinctiveness. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one, yet three. It should go without saying that the physical unity of the three persons of the Godhead cannot be proven scripturally. *This is THE main problem in the trinity debate - meaning it is stated by the trinity doctrine that the three personalities physically constitute the ‘one God’ [that all three are of one indivisible substance/essence].*
May God bless you in your studies as we await the soon appearance of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
@@earlysda: wouldn’t it be a contradiction to believe that the Holy Spirit is another third person and yet Inspiration does not include the Holy Spirit in the heavenly ranking as neither the first, second or third highest raking position?
*Notice Jesus’ position prior the incarnation. Also Notice Lucifer was “next” to Christ compared with how Christ was “next” to God.*
*“THE SON OF GOD WAS NEXT IN AUTHORITY TO THE GREAT LAWGIVER.* He knew that His life alone could be sufficient to ransom fallen man.” Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 2, p. 9.1; Also in Lift Him Up, p. 24.2.
*Note:* The “great lawgiver” here refers to God the Father.
“Such strange things have been repeating the works of Satan. He commenced war in heaven for the preeminence, worked with the angels until they were deceived, and concluded they would war against God. But the [loyal angels] would not yield the point *THAT CHRIST SHOULD HAVE THE PREEMINENCE NEXT TO GOD*. And there was war in heaven.” Ms90-1910, par.1.
“Well, Lucifer, he was striving; he had glory in the heavenly courts, *BUT HE WAS STRIVING FOR CHRIST’S PLACE NEXT TO GOD. NEXT HE WANTED TO BE GOD,* but he could not obtain that.” 25LtMs, Ms 86, 1910-1915, par. 28
Note: Note that Lucifer's position in heaven had been *“next” in authority to the Son of God.* Lucifer being “next to” the Son of God most certainly means that he was the next in line in the hierarchy and the chain of command.* He was under Christ. This is a statement that most certainly places the Son above Him. Consequently, Christ being “next to” to God [Father] then certainly places the Son below the Father. *1st* = Father, *2nd* = Christ, *3rd = Lucifer [Satan] prior his fall*
*The Battle in Lucifer’s Heart*
"The angels joyfully acknowledged the supremacy of Christ and poured out their love and adoration. Lucifer bowed with them;* BUT IN HIS HEART THERE WAS A STRANGE, FIERCE CONFLICT. TRUTH AND LOYALTY WERE STRUGGLING AGAINST ENVY AND JEALOUSY.* The influence of the holy angels seemed for a time to carry him with them. As songs of praise ascended, the spirit of evil seemed vanquished; unutterable love thrilled his entire being; his soul went out in harmony with the sinless worshipers in love to the Father and the Son. But again his desire for supremacy returned, and envy of Christ was once more indulged. The high honors conferred upon Lucifer called forth no gratitude to his Creator. He gloried in his brightness and aspired to be equal with God. Angels delighted to execute his commands, and he was clothed with glory above them all. Yet the Son of God was exalted above him. “Why,” questioned this mighty angel, “should Christ have the supremacy?”" EP 11.1.
"God bore long with Lucifer. The spirit of discontent was a new element, strange, unaccountable. *LUCIFER HIMSELF DID NOT SEE WHITHER HE WAS DRIFTING.* But such efforts as infinite love and wisdom only could devise were made to convince him of his error. He was made to see what would be the result of persisting in revolt." EP 12.3.
*“PRIDE IN HIS OWN GLORY NOURISHED THE DESIRE FOR SUPREMACY.* The high honors conferred upon Lucifer were not appreciated as the gift of God and called forth no gratitude to the Creator. He gloried in his brightness and exaltation and aspired to be equal with God. He was beloved and reverenced by the heavenly host. Angels delighted to execute his commands, and he was clothed with wisdom and glory above them all. *Yet the Son of God was the acknowledged Sovereign of heaven, ONE IN POWER AND AUTHORITY WITH THE FATHER. IN ALL THE COUNCILS OF GOD, CHRIST WAS A PARTICIPANT, WHILE LUCIFER WAS NOT PERMITTED THUS TO ENTER INTO THE DIVINE PURPOSES.* “WHY,” QUESTIONED THIS MIGHTY ANGEL, “SHOULD CHRIST HAVE THE SUPREMACY? WHY IS HE THUS HONORED ABOVE LUCIFER?” GC 495.1.
“Before the fall of Satan, the Father consulted his Son in regard to the formation of man. They purposed to make this world, and create beasts and living things upon it, and to make man in the image of God, to reign as a ruling monarch over every living thing which God should create. When Satan learned the purpose of God, *HE WAS ENVIOUS AT CHRIST, AND JEALOUS BECAUSE THE FATHER HAD NOT CONSULTED HIM IN REGARD TO THE CREATION OF MAN.”* 3SG 36.1
"CHRIST IS THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS FATHER'S PERSON, AND THE ANGELS COULD SEE IN THE SON A PERFECT REPRESENTATION OF GOD. *LUCIFER COVETED THE HONOR AND GLORY GIVEN TO CHRIST.* He became so self-exalted that he supposed that he could do anything he desired to do because of his high position as covering cherub, and he tried to obtain for himself the position given to Christ. But Lucifer fell. He was cast out of heaven; and now he works on human minds, tempting them to follow in his footsteps. He strives to fill minds with feelings of self-exaltation and to lead them to dishonor God by turning from their allegiance to the truth and inventing many things not after God’s order." - 18LtMs, Lt 55, 1903, par. 15
"Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong. He saw that “the Lord is righteous in all His ways, and holy in all His works” (Psalm 145:17), that the divine statutes are just and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. *HAD HE DONE THIS, HE MIGHT HAVE SAVED HIMSELF AND MANY ANGELS. IF HE HAD BEEN WILLING TO RETURN TO GOD,* satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God’s great plan, *HE WOULD HAVE BEEN REINSTATED IN HIS OFFICE.* The time had come for a final decision; he must yield to the divine sovereignty or place himself in open rebellion. He nearly reached the decision to return, BUT PRIDE FORBADE HIM. It was too great a sacrifice for one who had been so highly honored to confess that he had been in error!" EP 12.4
"Lucifer pointed to the LONG-SUFFERING OF GOD AS AN EVIDENCE of his own superiority, an indication that the King of the universe would yet accede to his terms. If the angels would stand firmly with him, he declared, they could yet gain all that they desired. He fully committed himself to the great controversy against his Maker. *THUS IT WAS THAT LUCIFER, THE LIGHT BEARER," BECAME SATAN,* “the adversary” of God and holy beings." EP 13.1
“SATAN, THE CHIEF OF THE FALLEN ANGELS, once had an exalted position in Heaven. *HE WAS NEXT IN HONOR TO CHRIST.”* Ellen White, Review & Herald, Feb. 24, 1874
“They looked with amazement upon the devices of Satan against the divine Son of God. They saw that he who had only been SECOND TO JESUS IN POWER AND GLORY had fallen so low that he could influence men to hunt the steps of Christ from city to city.” ST November 25, 1889, par. 1; TA 191.1.
“Was not Satan the light-bearer, the sharer of God’s glory in heaven, and *NEXT TO JESUS IN POWER AND MAJESTY?”* RH November 17, 1891, par. 3
“Satan had been Lucifer, the light-bearer, the sharer of God’s glory in heaven, and *SECOND TO JESUS AND MAJESTY.”* - BEcho November 1, 1892, par. 3
“SPEAKING OF SATAN, our Lord says that 'he abode not in the truth.' He was once the covering cherub, glorious in beauty and holiness. *HE WAS NEXT TO CHRIST IN EXALTATION AND CHARACTER.* It was with Satan that self-exaltation had its origin. He became jealous of Christ, and falsely accused him, and then laid blame upon the Father. *HE WAS ENVIOUS OF THE POSITION THAT WAS HELD BY CHRIST AND THE FATHER,* and he turned from his allegiance to the Commander of heaven and lost his high and holy estate.” - Ellen White, Review & Herald, Oct. 22, 1895.
“But there was one that chose to pervert this freedom. Sin originated with him *[SATAN] who, NEXT TO CHRIST, HAD BEEN MOST HONORED OF GOD* and who stood highest in power and glory among the inhabitants of heaven.” -The Great Controversy, 1911 ed., p. 493 (bracket supplied)
So, If Ellen White was Trinitarian as so many are claiming, then the heavenly hierarchy should at least read as follows: God the Father. *1st* = God the Son = Christ *2nd* God the Holy Spirit 3rd and then Lucifer [Satan] prior his fall* 4th. *WE CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE IN ELLEN WHITES WRITINGS NEITHER IS IT FOUND IN THE BIBLE.*
@@seekertruth3577 Seeker, so you are saying that Jesus told his disciples to baptize believers in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Son's spirit.
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That is odd.
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Your definition of "Trinity" is far removed from what the Bible and SOP teach, and from what most Protestants believe today.
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Would you say you believe in the "Godhead"?
@@earlysda: Friend, I suggest you study more and do proper research instead of being judgmental. Besides, you have no clue about the historical use of the phrase person in the SDA Church.
History testifies that up until the latter part of the fourth century, the preponderant belief of the true followers of God was not in a Triune God. It was only when a Roman Emperor issued a series of edicts enforced by threats and punishment that Trinitarianism began to take hold within Christianity.
In a recent book on the Trinity, Catholic theologian Karl Rahner recognizes that theologians in the past have been *"...embarrassed by the simple fact that in reality the Scriptures do not explicitly present a doctrine of the 'imminent'* Trinity (even John's prologue is no such doctrine)" (The Trinity, p. 22). (Author's emphasis.)
*“…primitive Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds of the early church”* - New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol. 2, 1976, p. 84, “God”
“The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the NT” - The Harper Collins Bible Dictionary, 1996, “Trinity”.
*“In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin:* "substance", "person" or "hypostasis", "relation" and so on. In doing this, she did not submit the faith to human wisdom, but gave a new and unprecedented meaning to these terms, which from then on would be used to signify an ineffable mystery, "infinitely beyond all that we can humanly understand". - Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 151 Source: www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/catechism/cat_view.cfm?recnum=608
*Please find below statements from the proponents of the Trinity heresy. Please read what it so clearly says about this trinity doctrine.*
“Where though in Scripture can be found such an idea? *The answer is, it cannot be found. This is because it is not there. It is purely supposition (philosophical speculation). This is why the trinity doctrine is only an assumed doctrine.* This is even duly recognized in our own denominational handbook of theology: “The concept of the Trinity, *namely the IDEA THAT THE THREE ARE ONE, IS NOT EXPLICITLY STATED BUT ONLY ASSUMED.”* - Fernando L. Canale, The Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopaedia, Volume 12, page 138, ‘Doctrine of God’
The dictionary defines the word assume as follows: *Supposed to be the case, without proof.* -- *Synonyms:* presume, surmise, *take for granted.*
*The Adventist Review 7-30-1981 Special Issue on Bible Doctrines* - The Trinity was explained one year after it was voted as an official doctrine of the church (which was in 1980; initially composed of 27 fundamental beliefs).
*It states,* "While no single scriptural passage states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, *it is assumed* as a fact by Bible writers... Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity." (p. 4) [Adventist Review, Vol 158, No. 31, p.4.
*Richard Rice says,* "The role of the trinity in a doctrine of God *always raises questions.* One reason is that the word itself does not appear in the Bible, nor is there any clear statement of the idea. But the *Bible does set the stage* for its formulation, and the concept represents a development of biblical claims and concepts. So even though *the doctrine of the trinity is not part of what the Bible itself says about God,* it is part of what the church must say *to safeguard the biblical view of God."* - Richard Rice, The Reign of God, An Introduction to Christian Theology from a Seventh-day Adventist Perspective’, page 89, 'A constructive proposal', 1985.
Notice Rice says, *“the doctrine of the trinity is not part of what the Bible itself says about God” “nor is there any clear statement of the IDEA”* yet he adds that *“to safeguard the biblical view of God”* - *THE CHURCH HAD TO FORMULATE THIS TEACHING.* This is what is called the “law of contradiction” meaning “a thing cannot at the same time both be and not be of a specified kind or in a specified manner.
Then he says, *“the Bible does set the stage”* for the formulation of the trinity doctrine. This again is the admittance that the trinity doctrine is extra-canonical, meaning its existence is not contained in the canon of Scripture. Also, don’t miss the point Rice is making. He says the doctrine of the trinity is what *“the church must say”* about God. It is not what the Bible says about God.
As far as most Seventh-day Adventists are concerned, the question “Is the Holy Spirit a person” may at first seem very easy to answer, particularly as Ellen White has said that He is a person, but as I have already clearly pointed out to you from Ellen White's writings that the HS is not a person but rather the Spirit of, or the omnipresence of God or Christ. *The word PERSON also refers to the non-physical aspect of an individual; his character, personality.* The Holy Spirit is the unseen person of the Lord Jesus. [2 Cor. 3:17] and NOT some other thirds being called god the holy spirit.
*“The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of CHRIST; it is His representative.”* - Ellen G. White, 13MR 313.3, 1895.
The Holy Spirit is the “one” Spirit of the Father and Son. This is how we have access to the Father through Christ who is the “one” mediator between God and man. As Paul wrote, Ephesians 2:18 “For through him [Christ] we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.” This is why Ellen White so frequently calls the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ even though it is also the Spirit of His Father. As Christ said, Matthew 28:20 “lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”. [How is Christ with us? Through His Holy Spirit].
*“CHRIST has left HIS Holy Spirit* to be HIS representative in the world, to give celestial aid to every hungering, thirsting soul.” - Ellen G. White, Lt84, October 22, 1895.
“CHRIST came to our world, but the world could not endure His purity. *He has gone to His Father, but HE has sent HIS HOLY SPIRIT to represent HIM in the world till he shall come again.”* - Ellen G. White, Ms1, January 11, 1897.
Another quote from Inspiration, “While *JESUS* ministers in the sanctuary above, *HE* is still *by HIS SPIRIT* the minister of the church on earth. HE is withdrawn from the eye of sense, but HIS parting promise is fulfilled, *“Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.”* Matthew 28:20. While *HE* delegates *HIS power* to inferior ministers, *HIS energizing presence* is still with HIS church.” - Homeward Bound 328.5 [Desire of Ages, p. 166,2].
“Cumbered with humanity, *CHRIST* could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, *go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is [Christ] HIMSELF,* divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. *HE would represent Himself as present in all places by HIS Holy Spirit,* as the Omnipresent.” - (Ellen G. White, Lt119, February 18, 1895).
From the statements above we can confirm that the Holy Spirit is Christs' Spirit and hence His Spirit represents Himself and is not a third being.
*An individual is someone composed of a physical form that we can recognize by sight and one who also possesses a non-physical entity, the spirit, which we recognize to be the person, personality, or character of that individual.* I've given you sufficient information from the pen of Inspiration.
Trinity is defined as the state of being three. It is the doctrine of the trinity that is humanly devised and a complete heresy. Also, nobody should associate Trinity with Godhead. Godhead is not a committee of members.
The SDA pastor is not correct that the trinity or triune God is not biblical. " As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”- Matthew 3:13-17. All three are indicated present and by definition, this makes the Trinity a biblical model. Sorry but you interviewed a false teacher.
At the baptism God spake „This is my Son, whom I love.“ and the Spirit descended from the Father onto the Son illustrating that he really is the Son who received His life from His Father.
I can not understand how this bible story should prove that Jesus was never begotten of the Father.
@@mattisfichte1730 Let's not forget that, "begotten", referring to the Son of God, is NOT PRESENT in the Aramaic Versions of the New Testament, which I believe are more reliable than the Greek "original", but only "The Unique Son of God", and also let's remind ourselves that in Christ's case, He now has two natures, one eternal, and one "incarnated" as of two millenia ago, and as of eternity planned as such. Also much care should be exercised and not confuse some references regarding to either of His natures. Yes, the word Trinity is totally absent in the Scriptures, but the concept is abundantly present in both Old and New Testaments. From the VERY START we see God in the Scriptures as coming in the plural form, and The Holy Spirit is clearly present. The warning recorded in John 8:24 should be taken extremely serious...
@@BvVb2099 Thanks for your thoughts.
Aramaic Versions of NT: Do I understand you correctly that you doubt the divine inspiration behind the word monogenes?
John lived and worked in Greek language areas. His epistles in Revelation cpt. 2 and 3 are addressed to greek speaking churches in Asia Minor. His style of writing is very Greek. I wouldn't cast doubt on the Greek original texts to maintain my theological position.
Two natures of Christ: The term „Son of God" refers to the divine nature of Christ, not his human nature, for which Jesus usually used the term „Son of Man“. That's apparent when going through the the passages where the terms occur.
Elohim Plural: This is not a proof for the concept of the Trinity. The same term is also applied to Moses, a single person, in Ex 7:1. The plural functions here as indicator of majesty. The same grammatical use of the Hebrew plural can be found in Gen 42:30 (Josef is "lords" of the land) and Is 19:4 (Nebuchadnezzar is a cruel "lords").
In fact, it is not only the term, but also the concept of the Trinity that lacks biblical support. There is not a single verse teaching that doctrine - only hints that require additional interpretation can be brought forward.
@@mattisfichte1730 As an Anti Trinitarian do you believe that Jesus is God?
@@captaint5302 I do.
// God's Word Is The KJV Bible The Recived Text....And In It Is Pentecost Where The Holy Spirit Descended On Belivers And Apostles....Christ Himself Said I Will Send The Comforter .... If You Don't Believe The Words Of The Bible And Christ Then Why Are You Calling Yourself A Christian ??
Mmmh be blessed
And here's the issue for the SDA church. If Ellen White was non-tranitarian and that's considered an heresy than she is not a profitist. Or the church has gone into an apostasy like the other churches.
Ellen G. White was non-trinitarian.
Sadly , the SDA church has gone astray.
Here is a link below to watch a good sermon in this topic:
th-cam.com/video/rfOBg39tv2M/w-d-xo.html
@ Carson LLANNIGUEZ: YOU said, "Would you rather worship a Roman Catholic Creed or the One God which is in heaven?"
That's a very good question that you should ask yourself, because that's what exactly the anti-trinitarians teach and spreading around! You should not bear false witness (Ex. 20:16), brother.
But who really is teaching the Catholic Trinity error? The fact is, its the anti-trinitarians who are teaching and promoting the counterfeit Catholic trinity today, and trying to deceive the members of God's Remnant church. You say that SDA pioneers opposed the Catholic Trinity. That's right. So do we as God's Remnant Church today!
For anyone to believe that at some time in eternity, the Father-God literally gave birth to, or generated, reproduced, produced, cloned, created, split off etc., a Son out of His own Being, is believing in the Trinity doctrine of Catholicism which is founded upon the mysteries of Babylon!
This is just typical Jesuit thinking. Unfortunately, modern anti-trinitarians among us have embraced the same conclusion, that there is only one Being who is the eternal God.
What is the Catholic Trinity?
Roman Catholicism teaches that the Son comes out of the Father (Christ is not eternal) and the Holy Spirit comes from both; and Holy Spirit is no- separate person-and yet there is only one God! There is no Son apart from the Father and no Holy Spirit apart from both. This peculiar doctrine stems from Arian heresy.
Here's official Catholic statements of proofs:
"The SON proceeds from the Father ; the HOLY GHOST proceeds from the FATHER and the SON." The Catholic Encycopedia, 1914 Edition, art. “Holy Ghost.”.
“The Son proceeds from the Father by generation (and generation means the process of begetting offspring, reproduction, or giving birth to)...” The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p 31 by Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., Imprimatur - September 16, 1957.
‘The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Christ. He is also the Spirit of the Father. Thus St. Augustine argues (in Joan, tr. Xcix, 6, 7 in P.L., XXXV, 188(ibid. n. 691).’ (The Catholic Encycopedia, 1914 Edition, art. “Holy Ghost.”).
“He [the Holy Spirit] proceeds, not by way of generation, but by way of spiration, from the Father and the Son together, as from a single principle. Such is the belief the Catholic faith demands.”-The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1914 Edition, art. “Holy Ghost.”
“The mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of Catholic faith. Upon it are based all the other teachings of the Church.”-Ibid, p. 16.
“Unless [people] keep this Faith whole and undefiled, without doubt, they shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic faith is this: We worship one God in Trinity.” -A Practical Catholic Dictionary, p. 32.
Shelton, you do not know your own belief sir, or the pioneers of our denomination.
I will paste a few quotes from our beloved pioneers:
"The father of Jesus is greater than his son in that he was first".
“He who was born in the form of God took the form of man”
“Christ is the only literal Son of God. “The only begotten of the Father.”
“The Scriptures nowhere speak of Christ as a created being, but on the contrary plainly state that he was begotten of the Father.”
“God alone is without beginning. At the earliest epoch when a beginning could be, - a period so remote that to finite minds it is essentially eternity, - appeared the Word. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:1.
This is enough to make a point
@@WaIIyMaven
I love those quotes but please post your source or sources as those you are speaking to do not know.
@ Carson LLANIGUEZ in response to your comment: YOU said, "There is one God and not three in one. Do you find that anywhere in the Bible?"
You say there's only "One God," that's the Father, then, you turn around and tell us there are TWO GODS, not just one!
Anti-trinitarians say the Father is the Almighty, one true God, then, Jesus is to be a lesser/inferior god! So you have two gods, one true God, and one lesser/ inferior god, that you say has a beginning somewhere in the eternity past.
Now this is where this (binitarian) god teaching contradicts with Bible on this subject, for Isaiah says 'no god was form either before or after God,' (Isaiah 43:10) and Jesus certainly could not be a lessser/inferior SECOND god! This is where the Arian heresy crumbles down!
God cannot be created, derived, borrowed or brought forth from another god! Such teachings not belongs in Christian faith but it exists only in pagan religions such as Hindus, Buddhists, and old Greek Mythology.
GOD, means IS SELF-EXISTENT in the Bible (Is. 43:10), if God is not self-existent, He is not God at all! In Christianity there are no big Gods, and little gods, that you will find in paganism such as Hinduism that claims millions of gods. The God has no beginning (origin) or end! Therefore, God is Uncreated, Underived and Unborrowed. Jesus Christ claims that He is "I AM THAT I AM, meaning. The Bible God is Yahweh. That means, "The Eternal presence"!!
According to the First Commandment of the Moral , eternal Law of God, we are to worship only the One Being & Creator of the whole Universe - the same One who descended upon Mount Sinai and spoke the words from Exodus 20:2-3 !
You and me are strictly FORBIDDEN to worship in any way , shape or form ANY other Deity than the One who spoke this immutable commandment !
THUS we are compelled to conclude:
1) There is only One true living God - so only One divine Being ! He is an eternal , infinite , almighty Spirit of perfect love and justice ! (Deuteronomy 6:4)
2) Inside this Spirit there are Three Minds / Persons who each fully shares all the prerogatives of God: Father , Son and Holy Spirit (1 John 5:7)
3) The Second Mind / Person of the One Being of God BECAME the "only begotten Son of God" in His humanity - through THE VIRGIN BIRTH ! Luke 1:35 EXPLAINS WHY Jesus is called "the Son of God" !
BEFORE Incarnation , our Saviour existed as "the Angel of the Lord" and He was called Michael - the invincible Commander of all angels of God !
AFTER Incarnation, He became the Son of Man and Son of God and was called Jesus - simply because His mother was human and He did not have a biological father , instead the Heavenly Father transferred His Person into the womb of virgin Mary.
The term "the Holy Spirit" refers to both the One Being of God (that which God is "made up" of/ "composed" of, namely "SPIRIT" - as John 4:24 says: "God is spirit") AND to the third coequal coeternal Person of that Being: John 14:16,17,26.
According to the only human source in scripture that has seen God face to face CLEARLY, in heaven.....Jesus is GOD.
The following involves the Testimony of the only human source in all of the Bible that has seen God FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN.
He sees clearly.
YOU DON'T, I DON'T, and no one in scripture does, with the exception of the one about to be shown to you.
You are contradicting the plain testimony of the only human source recorded in the Bible, who has seen God face to face clearly, in heaven, SENT BY JESUS FROM HEAVEN!!!
1 Corinthians 13:12
JESUS SENT HIS 'angel' , 'messenger' in the Koine Greek of the Revelation, from heaven, where he has seen God face to face, CLEARLY, to the Prophet John.
Rev. 22:16
That 'angel' JESUS SENT, calls Jesus WHO SENT HIM, LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS!
And that 'angel' JESUS SENT, tells the Holy Prophet John, that He also is one of God's Holy Prophets!
Rev. 22:6-9.
Now should you choose not to believe Jesus, God's Holy Prophet John who recorded this vision, and God's Holy Prophet sent from heaven seeing clearly, THE ONLY HUMAN SEEING GOD CLEARLY FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN....
Well, there are some negative eternal consequences to consider.
Since God's Holy Prophet, John, who sees and hears this vision is 'in the Spirit' throughout this vision, you are not only calling Jesus, the Holy Prophet He sent from heaven, the Prophet John who recorded this vision, and God who gifted this vision, and ALL OF GOD'S HOLY PROPHETS, liars, you are also calling the Holy Spirit a liar, WHICH CANNOT BE FORGIVEN.
Matthew 12:31,32 .
No eternal life for you...
Further confirmation of that fact follows...
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Rev. 22:19
JESUS BLOTS YOUR NAME OUT OF HIS BOOK OF LIFE.
Rev. 3:5 Rev. 21:27
Thus, JESUS IS GOD.
Can you think of a more terrifying outcome to calling Jesus, God, a liar, then losing your eternal life?
@@clarawagon9019 Dear sister in Christ, do you really , seriously believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Creator Himself incarnate? The Second Person of the Godhead? The Lord God of Deuteronomy 6:4? The "everlasting Father"/literal Creator of Time itself from Isaiah 9:6 ?... ...
Because if yes , than... HALLELUJAH !!! SO DO I !!!
I am afraid you must have misunderstood me 🤣🤣🤣 ...
"The One" I mentioned in my comment above is the TRIUNE / TRI-PERSONAL Being of the One true living God almighty ! The One Being Who Christ Jesus is the Second Person of (perfectly coequal & coeternal with the Father and the Spirit) !
The only reason I spoke about the triune God in His Unity (aka as being "the One") is because , sadly , the airheads in the video above worship no less than TWO gods (a major god , eternal, and a minor one , created) - none of which have anything to do with the utterly UNIQUE and triune Lord of the Holy Scriptures ...
@@clarawagon9019 Seriously though, you gave a 5 star reply ;))
@ Carson: "We need not think that because our fathers did a certain way, and died happy, we may follow in their footsteps, and be accepted in rendering the same service, and doing the same works, that they did. We have had more light than they had in their day; and if we would be accepted of God, we must be as faithful in obeying the light and walking in it as they were in receiving and obeying the light that God sent to them. We must accept and improve the light that shines upon our pathway, as faithfully as they accepted and improved the light that fell upon their pathway in their generation. We shall be judged according to the light that shines into the soul-temple in our day; and if we follow the light, we shall be free men and women in Christ Jesus." Ellen White, The Review and Herald, March 25, 1902
"Indeed, we have been told: "New Light will ever be revealed on the word of God to him who is in living connection with the Sun of righteousness . . . The diligent seeker for truth will find precious rays of light yet to shine forth from the Word of God . . . Many gems are yet scattered that are to be gathered together to become the property of the remnant people of God . . . Let no one come to the conclusion that there is no more truth to be revealed . . . There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed . . . We are not safe when we take the position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth." (Counsels on Sabbath School Work, p. 34).
"The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people is not proof that our ideas are infallible." (RH, December 20, 1892).
"We cannot hold that a position once taken, an idea once advocated, is not, under any circumstances, to be relinquished. There is but One Who is infallible -- He Who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life." (TM, 105).
"Investigation of every point that has been received as truth will repay the searcher: He will find precious gems. And in closely investigating every jot and tittle which we think is established truth, in comparing Scripture with Scripture, we may discover errors in our interpretation of Scripture." (RH, July 10, 1889).
"Believing a lie will not put any one of us in the way of being sanctified. Should all the ministers in the world tell us that we were safe in disobeying a single precept of the holy standard of righteousness, it would not lessen our obligations, nor make our guilt less, if we reject a plain “Thou shalt” or “Thou shalt not.” Ellen White, The Review and Herald, March 25, 1902
Shelton Donald I know whom I worship is the Only True God, the Father, and His only begotten Son. I don’t have any other gods brother beside my Father in heaven.
Shelton, while you are quoting you might as well quote sister Ellen staying that our pillars on who is Christ are never to be removed and that her doctrine has not changed one iota in the past fifty years.
The God the Creator Jesus Christ is an all the Bible new testament old testament everywhere matter of fact you can come to know God do the Creator only
God the Creator Creator God Jesus Christ the Creator God Jesus Christ wrote the Ten Commandments on the table of stone are all the Commandments are all the Commandments to be kept important what about the one that's foul shalt not kill what what about abortion is that a sin
Even when I think I agree with what someone is saying, I find dogmatism decidedly unattractive.
That having been said, there have been several famous people who have denied that three persons can be one God or vice versa.
My illustration doesn’t prove a thing, except that one of something can be three and three of something can be one.
When my dad taught me to tune pianos, he taught me to lay the temperament by ear. The next step was to tune the octaves--one of the strings of each note. The next step was called, “tuning the unisons”. In the treble register of almost all pianos, each note is comprised of three strings. When the other two strings are properly tuned to the one that has already been tuned, the three act in “unison”. (Note that this is a different word with a different meaning than the word, “harmony”.) The vibrations of each string affect the vibrations of each of the other stings of that one note so that the three vibrate at exactly the same rate. Tuning the unisons in the treble register is called, “tuning the triunisons”.
It is not appropriate to refer to a note in the treble register as three notes, although the note is comprised of three strings. And it is not appropriate to refer to the three strings as one string, although the three strings comprise only one note.
For me to think of someone as a Christian does not require that he understand the nature of God exactly as I do but, in my view, it is not appropriate to refer to the creator as three Gods, although he is comprised of three persons. And I avoid referring to God as a person, although it is my understanding of the Bible that three divine persons comprise one God.
I take the additional precaution of not using the word, “they”, when referring to any two or all three of those divine persons. In those situations, I prefer to use the word, “he”.
I think it was silly for Christians to argue about whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father and the Son.
Likewise I think it is silly for Adventists to argue about whether it is appropriate to use the word “trinity” to describe the creator.
I have spoken with several people (other than adventists) who object to the doctrine of the trinity - including unitarians and LdS polytheists. In each case their objections seemed to be based on the premise that one of something cannot possibly also be three of something.
I assume that those few adventist pioneers who objected to their understanding of the doctrine of the trinity had what they thought were good reasons for objecting. But can someone please explain what aspect of that doctrine they found objectionable?
If you sincerely want to know what Ellen White and the 1st gen pioneers who via the spirit laid down the foundational pillars of SDAism actually are I suggest reading several PDF books on Revelation 1412.org
revelation1412.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/the-living-voice-of-the-lords-witnesses.pdf
revelation1412.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/the-godhead-black-white-print-clr.pdf
Blessings to you.
@@disccattopdog9134 Let's not forget that, "begotten", referring to the Son of God, is NOT PRESENT in the Aramaic Versions of the New Testament, which I believe are more reliable than the Greek "original", but only "The Unique Son of God", and also let's remind ourselves that in Christ's case, He now has two natures, one eternal, and one "incarnated" as of two millenia ago, and as of eternity planned as such. Also much care should be exercised and not confuse some references regarding to either of His natures. Yes, the word Trinity is totally absent in the Scriptures, but the concept is abundantly present in both Old and New Testaments. From the VERY START we see God in the Scriptures as coming in the plural form, and The Holy Spirit is clearly present. The warning recorded in John 8:24 should be taken extremely serious...
Those that discount the Son as not God have shown yourselves out of harmony with scriptures, namely Hebrews 1:8-10. The Father is the only true God in context as the Father. The Son is the only true God in context as the Son. 1 John 5:20. Then we have the message in John 4:24 that tells us "God is a Spirit" We also have Jesus telling us to baptised in the name of three powers of heaven to the disciples. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
John 17:3 states otherwise brother. Also we behold God in the face of Jesus Christ, yet no man hath seen God. The life that Jesus revealed is the revelation of God for Jesus is the express image of His person as the same was in the beginning with God. Sister White wrote through the Spirit of Prophecy that the surrender of Christ was so complete that only the Father was revealed in Him. If you take away the Son of God, you also take away the surrender that we are meant to behold that we may be changed into His likeness as one with God (not because we are one being) but one is "nature, in character and in purpose". May the Lord our God lead you into all truth.
@@ryanlapitan3948 Have you not noticed that the Word came in the form of God as revealed in Phil 2:6? He was God and came in the form of God for His duration on earth as He prayed to the Father on the cross to return His glory that He once had with the Father before the incarnation. Sister White also says "the only begotten Son of the Father was truly God in infinity, but not in personality." When the Word came at the incarnation He wasn't truly God but in the form of God otherwise we would not have survived the brightness of His glory. Therefore one must conclude that the Son never was begotten in heaven for He was truly God in infinity! He existed from everlasting as Micah 5:2 says. John 17:3 is not denying that Christ is not God. On the contrary, we are to know the Father (God) and the Son (God, according to the Father Hebrews 1:8-10) in order to receive eternal life. Of course God is seen in Christ for He represented the Father. He said, see me, see the Father. He is just like the Father and is in the Father and the Father is in Him. While the Son represented the Father, He was no doubt God as Phil 2:6 confirms, although in the form of God. Coming in the form of a servant it was His purpose to rely on the Father and set an example for us. One must remember also that Christ said, the Father and I are one. John 10:30. I believe He is saying that He is of the same substance and has the same attributes of God. One in power and authority with the Father. It was a claim of equality with the Father as Paul mentions in Phil 2:6.
@@chocolate44ly Jesus said you have seen me, you have seen the Father. In His life Jesus revealed the Father to us in His life of obedience to the will of God the Father. (John 12:44,45)
Jesus is God because He came forth from God. "As the Father hath life in Himself, so He giveth the Son to have life in Himself" that's the same "original, unborrowed and underived" life that is in the Father which He gave to Jesus. In the book steps to Christ it says everything the Father hath He gave to His Son and Jesus came to give us this life. This is why it pleased the Father that all the fullness of Him dwell bodily, as Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. Not because He is the One true God but that His life in the flesh is the revelation of that One true God which is His Father and He fulfilled the life that was pleasing to Him. This is the eternal life we are to behold. No man cometh to the Father but by the Lord Jesus and He gave us the Spirit of being one with the Father. " My words, they are spirit and they are life" so also it can be said that no-one comes to me unless the Father draws Him. Therefore God is our Saviour. And Jesus is the perfect revelation of His love for it "is written" that "God is love."
1 John 4:9-10 KJVS
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. [10] Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Let God be true in Jesus Christ His only begotten Son! (see also Proverbs 8:22)
PS Hebrews 1 is talking about God exalting His Son, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Key verse:
John 1:18
God bless you my brother in Christ.
@@ryanlapitan3948 I feel sadden hearing the expression that the Son of God is only God because He came forth from God. He simply came from the Father's presence and this is how you understand that Christ is God? I reject also your quote of Proverbs 8:22 as the Saviour being begotten in heaven, believing He came into existence in heaven by the Father creating Him. God cannot be created as I understand it. He is the creator! And what of the quote I gave you of the only begotten Son of the Father being truly God in infinity? What of Isa 9:6 and Isa 7:14. Unto us a son is given. It's talking about Christ's incarnation. He was begotten of Mary and the Holy Spirit. As I said in the last post, Jesus sacrifice His glory and receive all things from Father on earth but in reality Christ says, all things that the Father has, I own. John 16. Jesus isn't no puppet of the Father, He is actually God. 1 John 5:20. John 1:1-3,14 Hebrews 1:8-10. John 10:30. and He is from everlasting. -"But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding his pre-existence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with his Father. From everlasting he was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted him, were to be blessed. "The Word was with God, and the Word was God." Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God."-The Review and Herald, April 5, 1906.
@@chocolate44ly unto us a Son is given. The scripture says it like this, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son" meaning Jesus was already begotten before He was given. He was first the Son of God.
We can only behold God in the face of Jesus. This is the way God glorified His Son in the beginning. Jesus is the first born of all creation and by no means not part of that creation because He was begotten (born) of God. Sister White plainly states that solemn and most beautiful truth.
Patriachs and Prophets
The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficence. He had an associate-a co-worker who could appreciate His purposes, and could share His joy in giving happiness to created beings. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” John 1:1, 2. Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father-one in nature, in character, in purpose-the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6. His “goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” Micah 5:2. And the Son of God declares concerning Himself: “The Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting.... When He appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him.” Proverbs 8:22-30. PP 34.1
The Father wrought by His Son in the creation of all heavenly beings. “By Him were all things created, ... whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him.” Colossians 1:16. Angels are God's ministers, radiant with the light ever flowing from His presence and speeding on rapid wing to execute His will. But the Son, the anointed of God, the “express image of His person,” “the brightness of His glory,” “upholding all things by the word of His power,” holds supremacy over them all. Hebrews 1:3. “A glorious high throne from the beginning,” was the place of His sanctuary (Jeremiah 17:12); “a scepter of righteousness,” the scepter of His kingdom. Hebrews 1:8. “Honor and majesty are before Him: strength and beauty are in His sanctuary.” Psalm 96:6. Mercy and truth go before His face. Psalm 89:14.
In Christ we behold God in fullness. It's because of this relationship, that we behold the identity of God and His only begotten Son and can called sons and daughters of God as Christ restores the image of God in us, the image that He created because Christ, "the wisdom of God and the power of God".
We glorify the Father by believing the testimony of His Son. Please Barry, don't be deceived or deceive yourself by not believing the testimony of Jesus Christ. The oneness they shared is the way we too can be one with the Father, because when we are one with Christ, we know that He was one with the Father in "nature, character and purpose. The only being that can enter into the counsel.and purposes of God"
This is why Satan was jealous of Christ in the beginning. Verily it was the position of Christ as a Being who shared the same glory with the Father, but was not one with Him in being.
You will see that if you let God be true, the error is in us, as we try to rationalise His wisdom with our own. Please read this chapter in Patriachs and Prophets concerning who's work we are doing if we deny the Sonship of Jesus the only begotten Son of God, the only one who came to reveal Him in Spirit and in truth.
As revealed also in the parable of the ruler and the vinedressers and fulfilled in the first advent of the Lord Jesus. There is nothing new brother.
And coveting the glory with which the infinite Father had invested His Son, this prince of angels aspired to power that was the prerogative of Christ alone. PP 35.2
Now the perfect harmony of heaven was broken. Lucifer's disposition to serve himself instead of his Creator aroused a feeling of apprehension when observed by those who considered that the glory of God should be supreme. In heavenly council the angels pleaded with Lucifer. The Son of God presented before him the greatness, the goodness, and the justice of the Creator, and the sacred, unchanging nature of His law. God Himself had established the order of heaven; and in departing from it, Lucifer would dishonor his Maker and bring ruin upon himself. But the warning, given in infinite love and mercy, only aroused a spirit of resistance. Lucifer allowed his jealousy of Christ to prevail, and became the more determined. PP 35.3
To dispute the supremacy of the Son of God, thus impeaching the wisdom and love of the Creator, had become the purpose of this prince of angels. To this object he was about to bend the energies of that master mind, which, next to Christ's, was first among the hosts of God. But He who would have the will of all His creatures free, left none unguarded to the bewildering sophistry by which rebellion would seek to justify itself. Before the great contest should open, all were to have a clear presentation of His will, whose wisdom and goodness were the spring of all their joy. PP 36.1
The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both.
For a better understanding of the Adventist Pioneer position on the Godhead, check out this series called "The Final Protest." th-cam.com/video/Hde02IR4gh0/w-d-xo.html
It is sad that this video presents absolutely false information. The "retired minister" (interviewed in the video) makes baseless claims against the SDA church for example, he says that church interprets differently the books of Revelation and the Daniel but he failed to tell what have they "interpreted...differently"! He says the church accept Ordain Women, but that's not true because the SDA GC do not accept the women ordination, although there's a group who are going against GC church policy and making a rebellion among the Adventists, (ironically I have never seen an anti-trinitarian ever engage with any Woman ordination promotor in any website anywhere!
These are no baseless claims, these are realities in our German Union Conferences. He is sharing his perspective as a pastor who was employed at the German Conference.
@@mattisfichte1730 The dear retired pastor is standing on a solid foundation of Jesus. and on the Fundamental Principles established by Mrs White and the Pioneers. i am not a German but I can see the comparison of the fundamental beliefs compiled by men (scholars of the BRI) vs the Fundamental Principles; which can be accessed through the SDA archives. SDA should search diligently the Holy Scriptures and from Genesis to Revelation, none other than God and His Only Begotten Son is mentioned. Det. 6:4, John 3:16, John 17:3 many more texts. That there is One True God! Jesus ia also God because His Father is God. Phil 2:6 Who, being God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God....John 14:28....I go unto the Father: for my father is greater than I. Thank you for standing for the true servant of God!
@@mattisfichte1730 People get older with their wrong concepts and that does not means they are right! I know many old retired pastors who had false beliefs and teaching many errors, and some never will change no matter how the truth will shine on their path. Its same here with this person you are talking about. The FACT is that the anti-trinitarians are teaching the exact same Catholic counterfeit Trinity that early which SDA pioneers had opposed! So, the criteria of finding the truth is not what other men think or believe but the Scriptures which is the only authority of faith: "To the law and testimony, if they speak not according this, there is no light in them" Isaiah 8:20. Please check out his web to see who is really teaching the Catholic Trinity (everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/2009/05/who-is-teaching-catholic-trinity-error.html)
@@ChristAdventwitness You sent me a dead link.
Yes, there might be many pastors who believe in errors. It is not necessarily Brother Mueller's position as pastor that gives his testimony authority, it is the fact that he wasn't taught the doctrine of the Trinity at the theology seminary in the 1950s. This disproves the claim that our church was already trinitarian during Ellen White's last years of life time. How come they didn't even mention the Trinity at his theology seminary in the 1950s, but today it is an obligatory part of the syllabus at every Adventist university? It is apparent that the doctrine was introduced stepwise by some of our leaders between 1927 and 1980.
@@mattisfichte1730 There's no excuse either as ministers or laity for not examining what we believe in the Scripture. We heard about the Bereans in Thessalonica! (Acts 17:11). Sister White writes: "The Word of God is the great detector of error; to it we believe everything must be brought. The Bible must be our standard for every doctrine and preaching. We must study it reverentially. We are to receive no one's opinion without comparing it with the Scriptures. Here is divine authority which is supreme in matters of faith. It is the Word of the living God that is to decide all controversies" [The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, pp. 44, 45; cf. The Great Controversy, p. 595].
The SDA church claims to believe in Jesus as a redeemer but are not willing to accept his ultimate sacrifice on the cross and the sharing of his blood as the only way to salvation. Instead, SDA still thrive on the OLd Testament and the Law Of Moses thinking that by works they will be saved. They fail to see the Law was given to Moses to be given to the children of Israel/bloodline and direct linaje of Jacob whom God Himself name Israel after he fought the angel for Israel means exactly that “He who fought The Lord”. In other words, Jacob struggled against Jesus himself. The Israelites didn’t know anything about Jesus for His time to come to earth was not come yet. To them even if He appeared in human form would still be considered an Angel.
God gave the Law to Moses to let the children of Israel Know that they were SINNERS and therefore CONDEMNED TO ETERNAL DAMNATION. God Himself made it clear to them that they had to fulfill all the LAW and all the FESTIVITIES and CEREMONIES that He Himself prescribed to them. Furthermore, not fulfilling one them is the same as not fulfilling THE LAW AS A WHOLE. All the festivities and ceremonies that were HOLY were also considered to be A SABBATH.
The SDA fool themselves into believing they follow the HOLY SCRIPTURES to the letter while DENYING the New Testament as a WHOLE.
Being a Christian is not about worshiping a particular day of the week, it’s not about fulfilling the LAW OF MOSES for no one can do so. Being a Christian is about following the teaching and sample of Jesus, it’s about being like HIM, it’s ultimately DOING WHAT JESUS DID “DWJD”.
The Seventh Day of Rest was given by GOD to ISRAEL FOR ALL THEIR GENERATIONS SO THAT THEY WILL REMEMBER THEY WERE BROUGHT OUT OF EGYPT. It was never prescribed to the Christians for THEY WERE NOT BROUGHT OUT OF EGYPT.
Even more so, the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL “BROKE” the FIRST COVENANT that God Himself did with THEM in mount HOREB OR SINAI over and over again. That’s why God sent the PROPHETS to STRAIGHTEN THEM OUT. However, they never listened to them but instead they STONED THEM TO DEATH. for that reason God Himself told the PROPHET ISAIAH that HE/GOD was going to make a NEW COVENANT with the SONS OF ISRAEL, a COVENANT DIFFERENT FROM THE FIRST ONE, NOT WRITTEN IN STONES BUT RATHER WITHIN THEIR HEART. By that God meant A COVENANT OF FAITH. What is faith? Simple, BELIEVING WHOLEHEARTEDLY IN HIM WHO IS INVISIBLE KNOWING THAT HIS WORD AND PROMISES WILL BE FULFILLED, something the PEOPLE OF ISRAEL HAS NEVER BEEN ABLE TO DO. Why is that? Simple, because BY FAITH NOAH BUILT THE ARCH AND SAVED HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY, BY FAITH ABRAHAM LEFT HIS LAND AND HOME AND BLINDLY WENT TO THE “PROMISED LAND”, BY FAITH HE/ABRAHAM TOOK HIS SON ISAAC AND WAS WILLING TO SACRIFICE HIM WHILE KNOWING THAT GOD WAS GOING TO PROVIDE THE “SACRIFICE LAMB” which in due time BECAME FLESH IN THE PERSON OF JESUS WHOM BECAME THE “SACRIFICE LAMB” WHO TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD “ONCE AND FOR ALL” thus FULFILLING WHAT WAS SAID AND WRITTEN OF HIM THROUGH THE “LAW OF MOSES” and the entire Old Testament therefore putting AND END TO THE OLD COVENANT AND PLACING IN ITS PLACE THE NEW COVENANT IN “HIS BLOOD”. The OLD COVENANT WAS SEALED WITH THE BLOOD OF A LAMB which was a shadow of what was to come. That LAMB was a symbol of Jesus Christ, the LAMB THAT TAKES AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD ONCE AND FOR ALL. Jesus SEALED THE NEW COVENANT IN HIS BLOOD AT THE LAST SUPPER thus ABOLISHING FOREVER THE OLD COVENANT. Jesus Himself stated that THE BREAD HE BROKE WAS A METAPHOR/SYMBOL OF “HIS BODY” WHICH WOULD BE BEATEN UP AND BROKEN FOR ALL OF US. THE WINE WAS A METAPHOR/SYMBOL OF “HIS BLOOD” WHICH WOULD BE SPILLED TO CLEANSE US ALL FROM OUR SINS. He told His disciples “DO THIS IN MY MEMORY TILL I RETURN”, FOR HE WHO PARTAKES OF THIS “HOLY CEREMONY” WILL BE SAVED. While doing this, the believer and follower of Jesus Christ ACKNOWLEDGES THAT HE/SHE ACCEPTS THESE TWO SYMBOLIC ELEMENTS OF SALVATION “BY FAITH”. This is why Jesus told Thomas: YOU BELIEVE BECAUSE YOU HAVE SEEN. BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE AND YET HAVE NOT SEEN. IT’S BY FAITH/BELIEVING AND NOT BY WORKS, KEEPING AND A WORSHIPING A DAY OF THE WEEK, DOING AND OBSERVING A WHOLE BUNCH OF FESTIVITIES AND CEREMONIES THAT ARE NO LONGER REQUIRED, OR BY DOING ANY LABOR WHATSOEVER TO PROBE AND PRESENT YOURSELF WORTHY AND BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE GOD’S EYES AND PRESENCE.
As human beings WE’RE UNWORTHY OF GOD’S PARDON AND FORGIVENESS THUS WE’RE CUT SHORT FROM HIS PRESENCE. HOWEVER, HE/GOD GAVE US A WAY TO REMOVE ALL OF OUR INIQUITIES AND PRESENT OURSELVES WORTHY AND JUSTIFIED BEFORE HIS EYES AND PRESENCE. THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIVE THAT IS THROUGH HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON JESUS CHRIST. THE ONLY WAY TO BE CLEANSED FROM OUR SINS AND INIQUITIES IS BY BEING COVERED BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THE LAMB/JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF.
Neither Jesus nor any of his followers ever preached THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE LAW OF MOSES AS A WAY OF SALVATION. THERE’S NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT REGARDING THAT AS A MATTER.
As for Sunday keeping and the trinity IT’S SOMETHING FOUND WITHIN THE NEW TESTAMENT. IT WAS THE DISCIPLES WHO STARTED TO GET TOGETHER THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK TO “BREAK THE BREAD AND DRINK WINE” JUST AS IT WAS STATED BY JESUS AT THE “LAST SUPPER”. Why the first day of the week? Simp, it was ON THIS DAY THAT THE LORD JESUS WAS “RESURRECTED FROM THE DEATH” JUST AS HE PROMISED HIS DISCIPLES. The Catholic Church has nothing to do with this as falsely taught by the SDA.
The HOLY SPIRIT WAS GIVEN TO THE DISCIPLES AS JESUS PROMISED HE WOULD DO. Why? Simple, IT’S “THE SEAL” BETWEEN JESUS AND HIS FOLLOWERS. THE SABBATH WAS “THE SEAL” BETWEEN GOD AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL SO THAT THEY WOULD REMEMBER “THEY WERE BROUGHT OUT OF EGYPT”. THE “HOLY SPIRIT” IS “THE SEAL” BETWEEN JESUS AND HIS “FOLLOWERS AND/OR FLOCK”. CHRISTIANS DON’T NEED TO OBSERVE THE “OLD COVENANT” FOR IT IS A COVENANT OF DEATH. HE WHO OBSERVES THAT NEEDS TO ABIDE BY IT WHOLEHEARTEDLY TO THE LETTER. HOWEVER, NOBODY CAN’T. ISRAEL COULDN’T AND FAILED MISERABLY TIME AND TIME AGAIN. NITHER CAN WE FOR WE WILL FAIL LIKEWISE. THE OLD COVENANT IS A BURDEN. THE NEW COVENANT ON THE OTHER HAND IS QUITE THE OPPOSITE FOR ALL THE BURDEN IS LIFTED FROM US BY JESUS. JESUS DID WHAT ISRAEL AND US CANNOT DO. HE WAS SINLESS AND FULFILL THE OLD COVENANT TO THE END THUS MAKING IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO GO BACK TO THE FATHER. HE FULFILLED EACH AND EVERY COMMANDMENT, SOMETHING ISRAEL NEEDLESS TO SAY COULDN’T DO AND NITHER CAN WE. JESUS CAME TO FULFILL ALL THAT IN OUR PLACE SO THAT WE DON’T HAVE TO STRUGGLE WITH IT AND THUS SET US FREE FROM ALL THAT BURDEN. This is the TRUTH THAT THE “SDA” FAIL TO SEE AND UNDERSTAND AND THUS PREFER TO TIE THE YOKE AROUND THEIR NECK AND THEREFORE BE “PRISONERS AND SLAVES” TO THEIR SINS AND INIQUITIES RATHER THAN FREELY ACCEPT THE GIFT OF LIFE AND FORGIVENESS THAT LORD JESUS HIMSELF GIVES US THROUGHOUT HIS SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS. “FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH” BUT LIFE ETERNAL AND EVERLASTING IS GIVEN TO US THROUGH JESUS. ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS ACCEPT THE GIFT HE FREELY GIVES US AND BELIEVE WHO HE SAID HE IS/WAS. That’s all we need to do “BELIEVE” AT HEART AND WITHOUT ANY DOUBT. That’s exactly what the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FAILED TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE. IT’S THE REASON THEY WERE CONDEMNED TO ROAM AND WANDER AROUND THE DESERT FOR FORTY YEARS. THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL HAD AND STILL HAVE A BIG TIME LACK OF FAITH IN GOD. BECAUSE OF THEIR LACK OF FAITH AND THEIR SINS AND INIQUITIES PASSED DOWN TO THEM BY ADAM IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN, that God GAVE THEM THE LAW. TO PROBE TO THEM THEY WILL BE CONDEMNED AND THEY WILL NEVER BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE HIS EYES AND HIS PRESENCE.
TO BE “SAVED FROM OUR SIN” IS NOT A MATTER OF “OBEDIENCE” BUT A MATTER OF “FAITH”.
Finally, all the teachings of HELLEN WHITE are nothing more than HERESY AND A BUNCH OF LIES, IT’S THE WORK OF THE DEVIL HIMSELF TO KEEP ALL THESE “SDA” PEOPLE BLIND FROM THE TRUTH JUST AS HE’S DONE WITH THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL.
“HE WHO HAS EYES SEE AND HE WHO HAS EARS HEAR”.
Shouting does *not* work. It does *not* draw people together, either.
Exactly what is your BEEF with the Adventist church?!?!?!?!
Your claims that the SDA believers do not accept Jesus as their Savior *is incorrect.*
ItzCaseyKC, you obviously didn’t read my message I previously posted. Just as an insight, I might not be an Adventist but I know the church from the inside. I did my two last years of high school at an Adventist School and got to see what they believe in. And just for the record, isn’t true that the Adventist Church believes that Jesus didn’t complete his work at the cross but right now supposedly He’s in the Holy Tabernacle finishing his cleansing and purifying it?
That’s what Ellen White taught but is nowhere in the Bible or the New Testament. It’s totally and completely unbiblical. One more thing, isn’t true as well that the Adventist Church believe they can predict and know when Jesus will return, all of this based upon the book of Daniel? Jesus Himself said that: “no one knows of the day (date) and time of his return. Nor the angels in heaven or even the sun of man (Jesus Himself) but only the Father that’s in heaven seated upon the throne”.
I suggest you read your Bible entirely from beginning to end (Genesis - Revelation). It will be surprising to see the TRUTH unfold before your very eyes. Only then you will understand God’s plan for humankind as a whole. Last but not least, read the message I previously posted. Have a good day and may God bless you and remove the veil from your eyes. Amen.
@@ODVR68
Ummm. The part of predicting when Jesus was to return was in the early Miller movement. After 1844, the key people realized that it was the heavenly sanctuary that was to be cleansed, not the earth.
That is the phase Jesus is doing right now. It's also called the Judgement period, to which we are in right now. Soon though, it will end and Jesus will stand and declares in Rev. 22:10, 11 where John was told this for our understanding, "And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."
In order to determine who is saved and those who cannot be, there first must be a judgment. It's just like what our penal system was likened to. God will one day soon declare mankind's probation to be closed and those who are unwilling to be saved will then be declared lost.
After that, the plagues will hit with a severe gale force along with all sorts of "natural disasters" when that time comes, or vise versa. Either way, there *has to be* a judgment before justice is meted out.
ItzCaseyKC, as I said in the beginning, the Adventist Church denies the work of Jesus on the cross for Jesus Himself said: “He who believes in me will be saved” not “He who follows the Law of Moses” will be saved. He’s work on the cross was to cleanse you, me and everybody from our sins. No one can fulfill the Law of Moses and the First Covenant but Jesus alone. You think that by going to Church on Saturday you will be presentable and righteous before God. Saturday has never been the 7th day as described by the Bible as no where in the Holy Scriptures is stated as such. Again, the Adventist’s doctrine is satanic and you still believe in that. You’re condemned to spend eternity in hell. I’m not doing so but you’re doing it to yourself and you’re denying that Jesus died for your sins once and for all. You think of yourself as being perfect but you’re not. You may keep thinking like that but your going to find out the hard way when He comes back:
Galatians 3:11-14 “But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith”.
Galatians 3:19-29 “Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Now a mediator is not a mediator for one, but God is one.
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterward be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise”.
Romans 4:20 “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin”.
What is faith then?
Hebrews 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”.
Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him”.
How does faith come?
Romans 10:17 “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”.
Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by faith are ye saved through faith: and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast”.
As for the New Covenant, Jesus Himself put in place at the Last Supper.
Matthew 26:26-28 “And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples and said, Take eat, this is my body.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the “new testament”, which is shed for many for the remission of sins”.
The same is stated in:
Mark 14:22-24
Luke 22:19-20
1 Corinthians 11:24-26
The New Covenant was made in the Spirit and not on the letter (written) for it kills.
2 Corinthians 3:6 “Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament (Covenant); not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life”.
Jesus is the Mediator of the New Covenant.
Hebrews 12:24 “And to Jesus the mediator of the New Covenant”, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel”.
Even more so. If the First Covenant given to Moses had been perfect, there would have been no need for a Second Covenant:
Hebrews 8:7, 13 “ For if that First Covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second (Second Covenant)”.
“In that He saith, A New Covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away”.
Jesus is not in the sanctuary cleansing and purifying it for He came to cleanse us all from our sins, we human beings. He offered Himself once and for all; He was the ultimate sacrifice:
Hebrews 10: 12, 14 “But this man (Jesus), after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God”.
“For by one offering He (Jesus) hath perfected forever them that are sanctified”.
Last but not least, Jesus disciples gathered on the first day of the week.
Acts 20:7 “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continue his speech until midnight “.
Furthermore:
1 Corinthians 16:2 “Upon the first day of the week let everyone of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come”.
I can go on forever proving you with the Holy Scriptures that your wrong and that the teachings of Ellen White is a big time heresy, a doctrine of Satan Himself.
It’s up to you which you choose to believe but according to the Scriptures, people at the Adventist Church are putting the yoke around their neck by their own choice for they don’t scrutinize the Holy Scriptures.
Hope you have a good day and may God bless you and by the power of the Holy Spirit remove the veil from your eyes. Amen.
@@ODVR68
You are very mistaken in what the Adventist believe in. Wherever you got your information from, it is faulty, my friend.
I’m an Adventist. This is a lie! We believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!
One God th-cam.com/video/xvNam-GMxEs/w-d-xo.html
Bobbi, even Jesus told the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Spirit). My question is... how is that not a union of three, which many call the Trinity?!
ItzCaseyKC I think because we go strictly by the Bible, God word, they are trying to discredit the church. We don’t care what man says is ok, tradition, but by the word only.
@@bobbic3027 Uh huh, it sounds like it.
We find various mention of a triune God. *IF* people want to call them the Trinity, I don't have a problem with that. *IF* they choose to use the word "triune God" that's ok also.
Many feel that just because the Catholic church was the ones who up with that phrase, then it must be evil. There is always going to be something good we can take away from other faiths when it coincides with scripture.
Many common folks don't know what the original language is saying, and merely go by what the English version says. Sometimes, English leaves alot to be desired when it comes to understanding what scripture says.
I don't profess to know Hebrew or Greek, however, there are volumes of reference material out there... including programs that one can download & install on their computers that can help one's understanding of our KJV Bible. It's out there in cyber-world waiting for us to avail ourselves of their information.
The fact that the Holy Spirit is *a real Person* even without a form as we know it to be... instead of some persona, or mere breath, that comes from the essence of our heavenly Father.
Jesus said in Mat. 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
I'll stop now.
1) Many non-Trinitarians believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit too. Trinitarians merely insist on a certain interpretation of the nature of God. So you saying that Adventists believe in exactly what you stated isn't even enough to make them Trinitarians. This is not such a simple matter. There's a lot of nuance to this which is why Christians have debated for two millennia about the topic of what the Bible actually says about it.
2) The old pastor is not speaking about if all or some Adventists *now* believe in the Trinity. He is talking about history and only of a specific part of the global church community. Even Adventists historians readily admit as a fact that many of the first Adventists, the so-called pioneers, were not Trinitarians.
3) I don't understand why or how acknowledging that historically there has been variation in Adventist beliefs would discredit the Church. Ellen White has written quite a lot about the idea of *present truth* which implies that there is a constant reformation going on. I'd find it a bigger problem if the first Adventists had claimed that the church knows the whole truth and is infallible as that would make it impossible for the church to learn anything new or to reform.
ODVR68
I didn't read all of your rant because the first paragraph shows that you know nothing about what the SDA believe.
I'm not going to bother trying to educate you because you have such a twisted view that nothing would convince you that you are wrong and if you wanted to know there are all kinds of resources where you could learn.
A thumbs down! lol proof some can't handle the truth!
This pastor ignored the Bible and the writings of Ellen g white? Ellen g white believed in the Holy Spirit as a person! All you have to do is look at her writings!
Where in the Bible and SOP can you read that the Holy Spirit is a person? Does it have a face, body blood and bones like a person? 1John 5:7 talks about power not a being/person. John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
We have to know who we worship and praise and glorify my friend!
Is so clear that you don't believe in the IOP!
Umm. I'm adventist and we think ellen white was a crack pot. Don't forget the adventist church split up and the 7th day Adventists are one off shoot not the entirety of Adventists.
@@valentinvillegas7312
Valentin,
How do you harmonize the 5 or 6 statements always used by Trinitarian and tritheists to "prove" that what EGW meant by "third person" means a 3rd divine being with the hundreds, literally hundreds of quotes that say there otherwise?
All of Ellen's quotes MUST harmonize or she is instantly a false prophet and we should not accept that for one second!
Here is just a sampling of quotes that must be harmonized:
"The Lord is soon to come. We want that complete and perfect understanding that the Lord alone can give. It is not safe to catch the Spirit from another. We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ."
Letter 66, 1894, par. 18
"Christ the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father, one in nature, in character and purpose, -- the ONLY being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ , the Father wrought in the creation of ALL heavenly beings."... "Sin originated with him [Satan], who NEXT to Christ had been honored of God."
GC p. 492-493 Read PP pg. 34.1 for another very similar quote to the GC one. It says God the Father had a co-worker (singular, not 2 co-workers). Re-Read Zech 6:12&13. How many were involved in the counsel of peace?
"The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency, that through His grace we might be complete in Him."
14MR p. 84
"Christ is to be known by the blessed name of Comforter. ""And I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world can not receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but he know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comforters: I will come to you".
John 14:16-18 quoted by Ellen.
She makes it super plain that Jesus Himself is the Comforter. He comes to you, not another being, a supposed 3rd divine being who never experienced humanity or overcame sin. Only Jesus can succor us.
"The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ; it is His representative."
13MR 313.3, 1895
"Remember the words of Christ, remember that He is an unseen presence in the person of the Holy Spirit(Jonh 14:18,21,23 quoted by EGW.
DG, 185.2, 1897
So would it not be practicing spiritualism and going against SDA doctrine on the state of the dead to say that the Spirit of the Father or the Son is detached and separate from Them? If the Holy Spirit were an actual 3rd God being, would He have a spirit? Holy Spirit isn't a name. The Holy Spirit can not be prayed to or worshipped, it doesn't have a seat on the throne, it doesn't have a crown, it is only present in the counsels of heaven because it is a part of the Father and the Son. It doesn't have a rank. Lucifer was 3rd in rank and now Gabriele is.
How do you answer these questions?
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What kind of "Adventist" thinks Ellen White is a "crackpot"?