I've been using Fiber transceivers for extending my cables over 100 ft. This seems to work reliably for me. That said, what a pain in the butt... I do wish the ATEM came in two flavors, HTMI or SDI (or both).
I’m not sure your information about running alpha information through HDMI being impossible is correct. I’ve seen people use Blackmagic Hyperdecks to run key and fill graphics on the ATEM mini using SDI to HDMI adapters. Does anyone else have any more information about this?
You’re right, and I wrote about this in the description after the video was published. You just can’t originate key and fill signals over HDMI- apologies for the confusion!
You make some really good points about the limitations of the BM ATEM extreme. One of them surprised me, though: are you sure that M1-based Mac mini can't use the Blackmagic Design UltraStudio Monitor 3G Playback Device to get a third monitor output? Another TH-camr with a rather prominent "Tech Savvy and Gospel Centric" channel seems to be claiming to the contrary. The only reason I bring it up is that people will be making purchase decisions on the basis of this information.
Thanks Charles. I always try and do the best research I can, and actually talked with Jake about that issue directly, but I may have misunderstood. If that’s the case, I’ll make an edit in the description
@@spencertrefzger9311 Thanks, I really appreciate your attention to detail. It will be very useful to know whether the M1-based Macs can have this rather major limitation removed with something as cheap at the Ultra Studio monitor. I'll keep a look out for your final conclusion on that one!
Yes the Ultrastudio mini-monitor can add a third video playback output. The new M1 macs are just limited to two display screens without strange work arounds to add more. But video playback cards from bmd are not “displays” they are video output devices.
I had a Atem Mini and just upgraded to the Extreme. Two questions: 1) I am having interference and noise on audio with Extreme but not with Mini. What am I doing wrong. Everything else works great with Extreme. 2) I also have Ultra Studio 4K. Do I need both the Atem Extreme and the Ultra Studio 4K.
I can’t say for sure but the dual inputs on the Extreme could be unbalanced, needing some grounding from a DI box. Second, not really- the Extreme can record directly out to a USB drive
The Television Studio HD ist totally outdated and I really don't understand why you still recommend it to your viewers. The Mini Extreme has scalers on all inputs, so it's totally hassle-free connecting any pastor's laptop (save $300 on a Decimator), 4 upstream keyers including the advanced chroma keyers from the Constellation, 2 DVEs and super source with four PIP layers and a background layer (!) for a total of 9 layers, compared to just 1 upstream keyer, 1 DVE on the Television studio HD. It's got built-in streaming (save >$500 on a Web Presenter HD or $400 on a Magewell Ultra Stream). And BTW: the ATEM Mini series can totally do alpha keying. Just connect your Decklink card using two micro converters for
This is a channel for churches, not upstart media companies. Those features are cool but largely irrelevant for this application. Plus you overlook that the TV Studio has 5 program outputs and a Multiview, making Aux feeds to other outputs like TVs way simpler. The Mini Extreme is great, it just has some limitations worth considering
@@ProfitandPixels We're a church, too. We currently use the Mini Pro and we're going going to switch to the Mini Extreme, once it's available. There are two main reasons why we chose the Mini over the Television Studio HD: 1) The thing streams to TH-cam by itself, no external encoding hardware or software needed. No fiddling with OBS, no Ecamm or anything. Starting the stream is as easy as pressing "On Air" on the ATEM. That way, it's extremely volunteer friendly. 2) It's got scalers on all inputs. That means, the pastor can just connect their laptop to show their slides without fiddling around with settings. "Please set your external display to 1920x1080 with 25 Hz refresh rate" - "25 What?" We're running SDI links from the cameras to the ATEM and also from the ATEM to the big screen TV sets we use instead of projectors. Converting from HDMI to SDI and vice versa is no big deal using BMD's micro converters. You have to convert from SDI to HDMI anyways when not using ulta-expensive SDI capable projectors. Why are we switching to the Mini Extreme? Mainly because we need a second upstream keyer for certain scenes. Second reason is that we can run our FoH screens through the ATEM and display the live video feed, if we so wish, which is not possible right now. The alternative to the Atem Mini would for sure not have been a Television Studio, but an entirely software based solution like OBS or vMix.
Some PTZ cameras can output directly to Cat6, but otherwise you’d need to convert HDMI to Cat6 and then back. This works well if you’ve already pulled cable or plan to
i would disagree......the atem mini pro DOES allow u to do lower thirds on a PNG file... so u kinda lost me on the alpha key thing....u didnt even talk about the supersource buttton OR the headphone jack!
Yes, any ATEM can load those through the Media Player, though you can only set 2 as shortcuts which means the rest are hard to access in real-time. It also means running graphics independent of ProPresenter, which I’m not a fan of because it’s inefficient. Sorry I didn’t talk about your favorite features!
@@spencertrefzger9311 thanks for the breakdown! I fully agree with what you have said about the media player and that you can't alpha key, but what about Chroma keying which 95% of the time is just as good? Seems to make more sense to output propresenter lower thirds into the ATEM rather than output the ATEM into propresenter. Is there something I'm missing?
Good questions! So, chroma keying works fine for 90% of churches, at least for the time being. And if we were just live-streaming, it could do just about every kind of graphic - just make sure the "key" color isn't actually in the graphic, and off you go. But a colored lower-third with green screen or black upper 2/3 doesn't work so well on FOH screens, so there's a compromise. A recent solution that's becoming more popular is to just keep the graphics inside PP7 the whole time, feed the video into it from the ATEM, and live-stream from there, saving the mess of keying and graphics cables altogether. Just trying to think long-term on its limitations, but it really is a great switcher option!
@@ProfitandPixels You can Alpha key using two HDMI in's via 2xSDI -> HDMI converters from a Hyperdeck - what is so special about PP7 that you can't feed a Fill and Key via two inputs and use the Luma keyer? I didn't understand the "You can't send Alpha channel via HDMI comment" - Thanks.
So I tested this, and you can take 2 SDI key and fill signals and run both through converters to HDMI using the new 3G Micro Converters. I had mistaken that alpha channels need to originate in SDI with thinking HDMI can’t carry them, which is false if using two separate cables/signals. I’m sorry for any confusion I caused!
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THANK YOU!!!!! Finally somebody mentioned the dual hdmi OUTPUTS!!!!! That’s all I wanted to hear
I've been using Fiber transceivers for extending my cables over 100 ft. This seems to work reliably for me. That said, what a pain in the butt... I do wish the ATEM came in two flavors, HTMI or SDI (or both).
Thank you for sharing, my space has 2000 meters wireless intercom and the introduction of tally, welcome.
Thanks. You mention the problem with graphics due to HDMI. Does the ATEM Extreme SDI model solve this issue?
Yes, but so do converters- check my updated description
That was really informative! Thank you!
I'd like to see an SDI Model come out for those who want SDI native. It would not make the unit anymore bulkier.
Agreed. I’m hoping an update for the TV Studio HD is in the works
If you buy Fiber Optic HDMi cable you can run it up to 100m and it's the same like SDI cable
True, but at $240 for a 50’ cable, SDI plus converters is a much more affordable route currently
I think fiber optic hdmi cables are great. They've come down a lot in price also. 300' for $120+tax. Don't know if they make 100m cables though
Don’t forget the headphone out! Trying to check sync is much easier now.
I’m not sure your information about running alpha information through HDMI being impossible is correct. I’ve seen people use Blackmagic Hyperdecks to run key and fill graphics on the ATEM mini using SDI to HDMI adapters.
Does anyone else have any more information about this?
You’re right, and I wrote about this in the description after the video was published. You just can’t originate key and fill signals over HDMI- apologies for the confusion!
Where the video on this?
You make some really good points about the limitations of the BM ATEM extreme. One of them surprised me, though: are you sure that M1-based Mac mini can't use the Blackmagic Design UltraStudio Monitor 3G Playback Device to get a third monitor output? Another TH-camr with a rather prominent "Tech Savvy and Gospel Centric" channel seems to be claiming to the contrary. The only reason I bring it up is that people will be making purchase decisions on the basis of this information.
Thanks Charles. I always try and do the best research I can, and actually talked with Jake about that issue directly, but I may have misunderstood. If that’s the case, I’ll make an edit in the description
@@spencertrefzger9311 Thanks, I really appreciate your attention to detail. It will be very useful to know whether the M1-based Macs can have this rather major limitation removed with something as cheap at the Ultra Studio monitor. I'll keep a look out for your final conclusion on that one!
Yes the Ultrastudio mini-monitor can add a third video playback output. The new M1 macs are just limited to two display screens without strange work arounds to add more. But video playback cards from bmd are not “displays” they are video output devices.
@@Churchfront Thanks, great info - I just ordered one.
Are we certain that the two HDMI outputs allow for multiview on one, and program/clean on the other?
Yes, they are both fully programmable outputs
@@ProfitandPixels can't find any information about that online!
Download the ATEM Mini manual, read page 21
Can we get multiview via usb type c??
I had a Atem Mini and just upgraded to the Extreme. Two questions: 1) I am having interference and noise on audio with Extreme but not with Mini. What am I doing wrong. Everything else works great with Extreme. 2) I also have Ultra Studio 4K. Do I need both the Atem Extreme and the Ultra Studio 4K.
I can’t say for sure but the dual inputs on the Extreme could be unbalanced, needing some grounding from a DI box. Second, not really- the Extreme can record directly out to a USB drive
@@ProfitandPixels Thanks but don’t really know what you mean by “dual inputs”.
The Extreme has two 3.5mm audio inputs, the Mini only has one. That lets you run a stereo signal in
@@ProfitandPixels Gotcha. That might be my problem because i only used one like the mini. Thanks so much.
@@markdoyon8752 they’re both stereo in each
For the graphics issue I'm just thinking outside the box but how about utilizing newtek NDI scan tool protocol
How works ?
Could you do a video on how to get a video feed from the switcher to pro presenter through a deck link duo
Hey Jeremy, I’ve got one in my training portal actually, email hello@churchvideoschool.com if you’re interested and I’ll get you access!
I've heard rumours about the Atem mini series getting NDI features in the future.
This would be the next logical step for the unit.
Even now from PC 1 with Propresenter has Ndi out to Another Pc 2 with OBS + hdmi out to Atem
Propresenter can send to a ( Ndi Decoder) but it will be an extra cost!
Can I connect an Atem Extreme to an Atem Television HD so that I have multiple outputs?
Technically, yes, if you have one lying around. If you don’t, getting a duplicator or matrix will be cheaper.
Preach brother!!!
Still black magic won't add T-bar 🥺🥺
They have a T bar on the full size models
The Television Studio HD ist totally outdated and I really don't understand why you still recommend it to your viewers. The Mini Extreme has scalers on all inputs, so it's totally hassle-free connecting any pastor's laptop (save $300 on a Decimator), 4 upstream keyers including the advanced chroma keyers from the Constellation, 2 DVEs and super source with four PIP layers and a background layer (!) for a total of 9 layers, compared to just 1 upstream keyer, 1 DVE on the Television studio HD. It's got built-in streaming (save >$500 on a Web Presenter HD or $400 on a Magewell Ultra Stream). And BTW: the ATEM Mini series can totally do alpha keying. Just connect your Decklink card using two micro converters for
This is a channel for churches, not upstart media companies. Those features are cool but largely irrelevant for this application. Plus you overlook that the TV Studio has 5 program outputs and a Multiview, making Aux feeds to other outputs like TVs way simpler. The Mini Extreme is great, it just has some limitations worth considering
@@ProfitandPixels We're a church, too. We currently use the Mini Pro and we're going going to switch to the Mini Extreme, once it's available. There are two main reasons why we chose the Mini over the Television Studio HD: 1) The thing streams to TH-cam by itself, no external encoding hardware or software needed. No fiddling with OBS, no Ecamm or anything. Starting the stream is as easy as pressing "On Air" on the ATEM. That way, it's extremely volunteer friendly. 2) It's got scalers on all inputs. That means, the pastor can just connect their laptop to show their slides without fiddling around with settings. "Please set your external display to 1920x1080 with 25 Hz refresh rate" - "25 What?" We're running SDI links from the cameras to the ATEM and also from the ATEM to the big screen TV sets we use instead of projectors. Converting from HDMI to SDI and vice versa is no big deal using BMD's micro converters. You have to convert from SDI to HDMI anyways when not using ulta-expensive SDI capable projectors. Why are we switching to the Mini Extreme? Mainly because we need a second upstream keyer for certain scenes. Second reason is that we can run our FoH screens through the ATEM and display the live video feed, if we so wish, which is not possible right now. The alternative to the Atem Mini would for sure not have been a Television Studio, but an entirely software based solution like OBS or vMix.
instead of SDI couldn't you just convert to Cat for the long runs?
You can. HDMI has more connection issues due to HDCP, so a lot of ppl prefer SDI for that reason
Instead of SDI can you just run Cat6 and captures to HDMI?
Some PTZ cameras can output directly to Cat6, but otherwise you’d need to convert HDMI to Cat6 and then back. This works well if you’ve already pulled cable or plan to
I’m running all m1 Mac computers at church and am able to run 6 screens out of pro presenter.
me 2
HDMI over Ethernet
i would disagree......the atem mini pro DOES allow u to do lower thirds on a PNG file... so u kinda lost me on the alpha key thing....u didnt even talk about the supersource buttton OR the headphone jack!
Yes, any ATEM can load those through the Media Player, though you can only set 2 as shortcuts which means the rest are hard to access in real-time. It also means running graphics independent of ProPresenter, which I’m not a fan of because it’s inefficient. Sorry I didn’t talk about your favorite features!
@@spencertrefzger9311 thanks for the breakdown! I fully agree with what you have said about the media player and that you can't alpha key, but what about Chroma keying which 95% of the time is just as good? Seems to make more sense to output propresenter lower thirds into the ATEM rather than output the ATEM into propresenter. Is there something I'm missing?
Good questions! So, chroma keying works fine for 90% of churches, at least for the time being. And if we were just live-streaming, it could do just about every kind of graphic - just make sure the "key" color isn't actually in the graphic, and off you go. But a colored lower-third with green screen or black upper 2/3 doesn't work so well on FOH screens, so there's a compromise. A recent solution that's becoming more popular is to just keep the graphics inside PP7 the whole time, feed the video into it from the ATEM, and live-stream from there, saving the mess of keying and graphics cables altogether. Just trying to think long-term on its limitations, but it really is a great switcher option!
@@ProfitandPixels You can Alpha key using two HDMI in's via 2xSDI -> HDMI converters from a Hyperdeck - what is so special about PP7 that you can't feed a Fill and Key via two inputs and use the Luma keyer? I didn't understand the "You can't send Alpha channel via HDMI comment" - Thanks.
So I tested this, and you can take 2 SDI key and fill signals and run both through converters to HDMI using the new 3G Micro Converters. I had mistaken that alpha channels need to originate in SDI with thinking HDMI can’t carry them, which is false if using two separate cables/signals. I’m sorry for any confusion I caused!