Thanks for this video, really insightful! You mentioned in most organizations, there is a lack of focus on outcomes since business tend to focus on impact while developers tend to focus on outputs/delivery. Who do you think should have the responsibility of focusing on outcomes?
Great question! Who should be responsible? I tend to think everyone should be :-) Developers would need to leave their output-centric bubble and think more about how the output translates into outcome.... while business leaders would also need to think in those terms to help steer/prioritise the work So I think everyone *should*.... but.... since it's not the case in most organisations, I would say Coaches, Scrum Masters and Product Owners are best placed to introduce this and help the org bridge that gap. Hope this helps!
Thanks! There are always going to be dislikes, whenever someone push himself "out there"... I don't care about thumbs down. As a feedback mechanism, it's rather poor as you have no context, no explanation...
Good question! I think verification is about checking that you did works as intended... i.e. what most people think when you say the word "testing". "Building the thing right" as I call it sometimes. Validation is about "building the right thing", so checking that, the thing we just built has the effect (or outcome) we wanted to see with users.
Yes, although if I wanted to be pedantic about the language here, I would say that you're still validating the output... And you do that by measuring the actual outcome and comparing that to the expected or target outcome
Thanks for the great question! So, in my head, we have 2 types of outcome (maybe something that's not so clear in the video): (1) people/org do something different (behaviour change) (2) people/or do something better (performance change) And (2) can often lead to (1) long term, but this is often unintended/unpredictable.
Nice video. But you should add examples and categories of outcomes. You mentioned customer satisfaction that would be a change in attitude. And you mentioned change in user behaviour or even more precise, user behavior changing in an intended direction. And provide some examples of types of professionals that measure and optimize such outputs like user interface designers, ergonomics, even marketing (their goal is to change the perception of a product or brand among the target user group and buyer group).
Great question! I think business value is too vague as a term... Because defining what is valuable for the business is quite abstract. Which business? Yours or the end-users/customers? That's why I often talk about output, outcome and impact. These are more precise terms for me to use. Having said that, I would say that, yes, outcome, in practice, is what is meant by "value" in most agile context. Though if you had the term "business", then it makes for sense yo equate it to impact.
@@TheAgileBroadcast I am a pragmatist, I expect different views from different personas; Engineer, Product Manager, Finance, Customer, and of course Agile Coach.
@@BRunner12 I think in this for all of them maximising outcomes for minimum output makes them happy: Engineers: less of their effort is wasted PM: Their customers are happy quickly Finance: less output == costs less money, but for the same outcomes = efficient use of resources for the same return = very happy Customer: gets their desired outcome earlier Agile Coach: doesn't actually get anything out of it except the satisfaction of making their team more efficient. (I'm a dev, not an Agile Coach btw)
"you extroverted people"? Really? That's the most productive and constructive comment you could think of? How about bringing some actual arguments instead of just insulting people? Having said that, here is something constructive to reflect on: yes, I do think a lot of agile practices can feel very extrovert- friendly, and agile folks should include the more introverted people with them. But, it's good for introverts to grow and practice more extroverted behaviours, just like extroverted people should learn to focus on introverted attitudes.
Well done, simple, logical, concise. Excellent presentation!
Thank you for sharing such clear vision for output and outcome, very much understandable 👍🏻
Brilliant video. Thanks for your simplicity and effective.
Wow this video sums up output - outcome - impact concept clearly. Thank you for sharing
Got the content exactly what I need, thanks for detailed explanation in lay man terms :)
thank you, that was very helpful - especially the Scope/Time/Customer Satisfaction part
Glad it helped!
Thank you this was very insightful.
Thanks for this video, really insightful! You mentioned in most organizations, there is a lack of focus on outcomes since business tend to focus on impact while developers tend to focus on outputs/delivery. Who do you think should have the responsibility of focusing on outcomes?
Great question!
Who should be responsible? I tend to think everyone should be :-) Developers would need to leave their output-centric bubble and think more about how the output translates into outcome.... while business leaders would also need to think in those terms to help steer/prioritise the work
So I think everyone *should*.... but.... since it's not the case in most organisations, I would say Coaches, Scrum Masters and Product Owners are best placed to introduce this and help the org bridge that gap.
Hope this helps!
Hi, very well explained. Thank you
Bravo David, aurais tu une version en Français ?
Je viens de voir qu'il y a une traduction 😜
Il y a une traduction?? Automatique faite par YT j'imagine avec des sous-titres?
@@TheAgileBroadcast En effet, je l'ai sur mon portable en français (même si je te comprends bien en anglais 😜)
I liked it and enjoyed it. As always, thanks for your efforts David. Long time no see 😁
Hey, long time no see indeed... life has been busy which meant not much time for making videos ;-( Hopefully more coming soon!
Golden video!
Excellent. Short and sweet. I dont know why there are dislikes
Thanks! There are always going to be dislikes, whenever someone push himself "out there"...
I don't care about thumbs down. As a feedback mechanism, it's rather poor as you have no context, no explanation...
Also David, what do you think about the relationship between output and verification from one side and outcome and validation from a second side?
Good question! I think verification is about checking that you did works as intended... i.e. what most people think when you say the word "testing". "Building the thing right" as I call it sometimes.
Validation is about "building the right thing", so checking that, the thing we just built has the effect (or outcome) we wanted to see with users.
@@TheAgileBroadcast yes, that was my observation. Verification is associated with Outputs, whereas validation is associated with outcomes.
Yes, although if I wanted to be pedantic about the language here, I would say that you're still validating the output... And you do that by measuring the actual outcome and comparing that to the expected or target outcome
Amazing vídeo
Thanks for sharing! When you say a behavioral change, is that just one type of outcome or do we always want to aim for a behavioral change?
Thanks for the great question!
So, in my head, we have 2 types of outcome (maybe something that's not so clear in the video):
(1) people/org do something different (behaviour change)
(2) people/or do something better (performance change)
And (2) can often lead to (1) long term, but this is often unintended/unpredictable.
Nice video. But you should add examples and categories of outcomes. You mentioned customer satisfaction that would be a change in attitude. And you mentioned change in user behaviour or even more precise, user behavior changing in an intended direction. And provide some examples of types of professionals that measure and optimize such outputs like user interface designers, ergonomics, even marketing (their goal is to change the perception of a product or brand among the target user group and buyer group).
No, this was not the intention here. Could be a different video in the future though
Simply the best
Just came across this when i try to look for outcome roadmap.
May i know is the outcome = business value the same?
Great question! I think business value is too vague as a term... Because defining what is valuable for the business is quite abstract. Which business? Yours or the end-users/customers?
That's why I often talk about output, outcome and impact. These are more precise terms for me to use.
Having said that, I would say that, yes, outcome, in practice, is what is meant by "value" in most agile context. Though if you had the term "business", then it makes for sense yo equate it to impact.
Thank you
Scope and Time are a fail but Outcome is Positive might equal bankrup
Maybe, but that's besides the point. Running out of money is a constant risk and has nothing to do with how good or bad your product might be.
I agree it is for an Agile Coach....
What does that mean exactly?
@@TheAgileBroadcast I am a pragmatist, I expect different views from different personas; Engineer, Product Manager, Finance, Customer, and of course Agile Coach.
@@BRunner12 I think in this for all of them maximising outcomes for minimum output makes them happy:
Engineers: less of their effort is wasted
PM: Their customers are happy quickly
Finance: less output == costs less money, but for the same outcomes = efficient use of resources for the same return = very happy
Customer: gets their desired outcome earlier
Agile Coach: doesn't actually get anything out of it except the satisfaction of making their team more efficient.
(I'm a dev, not an Agile Coach btw)
I'm currently being dragged through "agile" by my employer, and I have to say that you extroverted people have truly lost your minds.
"you extroverted people"? Really? That's the most productive and constructive comment you could think of?
How about bringing some actual arguments instead of just insulting people?
Having said that, here is something constructive to reflect on: yes, I do think a lot of agile practices can feel very extrovert- friendly, and agile folks should include the more introverted people with them. But, it's good for introverts to grow and practice more extroverted behaviours, just like extroverted people should learn to focus on introverted attitudes.
How can i contact you? If you dobt mind, can you share your linkedin profile? Your videos are great :) thank you
Thanks! You can find a link to my linkedin on the banner (bottom right corner) of the main channel page.
@@TheAgileBroadcast Thanks 😊😊