The people that say “you don’t need sheilders and healers just dodge” truly believe that people who use them have no skill. Problem is, as you’ve stated it, genshin isn’t even that much about skill , most of the combat is team building, knowledge and rng so I don’t agree with them they’re just going to end up playing reset impact
@@_butter.cup_ it depends on every player account, a whale with C6R5 can do it solo without taking any damage, though i have no idea how many runs he did that, as for the rest of us mortals healer and shielder is very welcome
I'm one of those believing in dodging, but this still doesn't apply to every piece of content. For bossfights with predictable attack patterns you can comfortably get away with just dodging, but the bullshit onslaughts of heralds and those rngbeasts with poorly telegraphed attacks and bus-sized collision boxes are nowhere easy to "just dodge" even for skilled players. Only sith deal in absolutes
@@_butter.cup_ Its not necessary and I do 36* without a dedicated healer / shielder but I would never recommend. Going for kokomi and Zhongli when they come around
Those "just dodge" arguments tend to forget that you have to see the moves to be able to dodge. The fight with those brick beasts you don't only just fight them but struggle with the camera as well. They keep pushing you to the wall so the wall camera is right inside your organ. And when you roll the camera to the other side, it's blocked by those animals' big body that love to jump around randomly. Even when you have i-frame using burst they can still push you. And also, when you're squeezed tight into the wall, you can't switch to taller characters cause your head is considered to be stuck in the wall for some reason
I completed this abyss with ease, Used the same character as I always do ,some team involving- raiden and melt ganyu, then I tried the run in my friend's account as he requested, it was hell ,literally impossible to complete the first part without kazuha, and for the second part its so much hard to do it without zhongli , took me like 1+ hour to complete this floor, there is no way to dodge and the number of combos those mofos hit is annoying af and the stamina draining part in the first floor omfg, fyi he had c3 r1 raiden and a well build account and yet I struggled, impossible for a casual f2p to complete this
The issue in the abyss is that the difficulty doesn't measure your skills as a player (dodging, aiming, stacking combos) . Rather it challenges you to complete the challenge in an absurdly short time with the nuances of enemies hiding/invulnerability, which is way too random at times, having thick shields with only one counter, etc and only measures the numbers in your characters.
There idea of hard is having a lot of hp or specific elements to gatekeep powerful build units. Respectfully, likes who builds Thoma? But, he is required to clear last floor effectively.
@@hesuperpro6732 did use him once previous cycle but hes not required. Aginst the lectors and the thunder bird, sunfire hutao with xiangling worked just fine. Actulally, it was better than the Thoma team. The only issue being yiu have to restart the entire thing to rebuild for ch3.
@@hesuperpro6732I main Thoma for a Burgeon team, and even then I could completely floor 12 without getting frozen every two seconds. And as a Thoma main, I am offended.
just the nature of gachas, only a handful are skill base. vast majority are rng + grind base progression to increase player retention and encourage buying microtransactions.
I definitely think that Hoyo is trying to keep the whales spending money on the game. If the Abyss gets too easy for a C5 Raiden main they're not gonna buy the primos for a C6.
There is also a huge problem with this Abyss. Its the fact that a lot of enemies have shields that can be broken by certain elements (some faster, while others slower). The issue with it lies on what characters a player has. Everyone has a different experience in playing Genshin. Some have good units, some have not. Others have the right units to play against these, while other don’t have such. Some have extremely good build (like artifacts and weapons), some don’t have.
Thats true because it's so painful to level a large roster off caratter i bet only a thiny Minority of players can clear abyss. Like i can clear it whit 0 star and it takes me an hour off attempt while i saw people on stream getting perfect clears at first attempt's
@@harfi212 Could it be my fault? Likely. What about everyone else who have pulled characters they liked and are strong in their own right, but cannot use them because the Abyss restricts them from using those characters? Is it also their fault? No. The problem that I listed isn’t about me specifically.
@@harfi212 the problem is that floor 12 of the abyss should not be only accessible to the tryhard meta players. you should not need all those characters this person listed just to clear floor 12. That is absurd. They should add floor 13+ or other content for those. They're making floor 12 feel like a floor 15 which only pleases a super small minority of players, while locking many others out of what used to be reasonable. The requirements for clearing it in time played, characters built, etc, is only rising. And faster than many players can keep up with.
Oh man, I remember clearing floor 12 for 0 stars once in my life just for the achievement. To be fair, I barely had 2 functioning teams at the time but I feel like I'd have an even worse time if I tried it now, even though I've much better built units. Which is why I'm kind of frustrated there isn't a middle ground somewhere. Floor 12 is a headache but overworld enemies die in one shot.
I feel like people also forget that not everyone's been playing for over a year either. I started a couple months ago and just now actually started to be able to put together some teams with really good synergy with good artifacts. If the teams that I've spent a bunch of time building just plain won't work in the abyss because the boss shields don't take damage from my main damage element, then I'm screwed unless I build up certain other characters, which is annoying considering how much investment you need to put into a single character just to get them up to par with the upper floors of the abyss. I get that Spiral Abyss is "Endgame content" but it's honestly seeming more like a "Build this team comp or you're screwed" kind of place.
indeed. The harder abyss content should have been more floors without primos. Everyone would be happy. Tryharders can try hard, whales can whale, casuals can casual and casuals who have played a reasonable amount of time and built up a decent collection can take their extra primos from floor 12 without slamming their heads against the wall for 5 hours+. Even me as someone who has played since launch, semi-casually, struggles to complete it with 36 stars simply because none of my 3 best teams work well against the lector shields. You're not just punished for not having built enough characters, you are punished for not having built THE RIGHT characters. This is very much against how genshin markets itself. I refuse to build bennett as its just not a fun character to me, but meanwhile he is almost mandatory. Just an example. The thing is, they are cranking up the floor 12 difficutly more and more so that now it feels like a floor 14 or 15 compared to how it was before. They should just add more floors instead. They lock primos out of reach for a huge amount of players. And the requirements are ridiculous; playing a game for a year and not being able to clear this kind of thing is a joke of a design. And players going on about AI manipulation and other "totally obvious gane knowledge things you should know that is being tested here" don't realize that the game teaches you this nowhere but is then punishing players for not only not having built enough/specific characters even after a longer time of playing, but also for things they never teach. It is horrible design^2. The tryhards should have their fun, sure, but meanwhile the fun (and reasonableness) is being sucked out for everyone else. More floors or actual meaningful end-game content are the only solutions here to keep more players happy. Can never please everyone, but they are going in a dangerous and frankly absurd direction.
The problem with abyss nowadays is just about the proper character to use, elements plus investment you put into your team. Good example is floor 12-1-2, you gotta bring cryo, dendro, and pyro at the same team, which makes your team synergies decrease by alot because not everyone has every character build up
As a Dark Souls enthusiast and a F2P AR 60 Genshin player, I can confidently say that there are some moments in abyss that are harder than anything you’ll find in Dark Souls. But that’s because Genshin doesn’t do difficulty fairly or fun like Dark Souls does. Genshin wants you to whale.
Cuz genshin isn't skill based, like Dark Souls. You can beat any DS at SL1, but you won't be beating abyss with lvl 1 teams. It's designed to make you spend money with characters and weapons
To be fair, take dark souls and make it so that you only have 90 seconds to beat a boss, and now all bosses have elden ring levels of aggression so they never stop attacking and dont give any room to counter attack and then youll have genshin's current design for the enemies in the abyss
Genshin is not a skill check, is more of a knowledge and luck check, where the luck part makes the biggest impact (because artifacts and constellations) but it becomes less of an issue the more you spend on characters/weapons
@@chrismonge3215 the more you spend on *the correct* characters. I have played since the beginning, most of my resources have gone into cryo, electro and hydro characetrs because I like them so much. I dont play dudes either (and even if I did bennett would be bottom of my list tbh), so while I have very nice investment in like 3 teams, all of them are hard-stopped in just that one room. Luckily, while figuring out a working composition with what I had built for the baptist (and keeping them alive long enough to get there) was a challenge, it was reasonable and I cleared that. But the lectors in 12-1-2 are just way too specific and unforgiving and your damage matters nothing once the shields come out (but before that it does, of course. I tried 2 of my pyro chars but the damage didnt cut it to get to the shields part fast enough). I cleared it with 36 stars once with luck and the cycle after I couldnt do it. But I spend about 6 hours resetting in the first cycle and 5 in the second. Even if youve played long and invested a lot, if its not in the *correct* characters, you are still screwed. It did not used to be this way. They make floor 12 feel like floor 15. They should have added more floors with less meaningful rewards than primogems, then those who want to test their accounts can happily do so. Instead theyre working hard at driving away and locking out lots of players who are new/could have fun here but now dont/used to have fun but now dont.
@@DiaborMagics i agree they could add floors and make them like 10 primogems each that way if it's passed up it doesn't feel like too big of a FOMO trip. Hoyo listened when it came to limited time combat events. they used to put primos on the hardest difficulty and now it's all ore up there with the primos as the easiest reward. Some players still go for max points because it's fun to them. the casuals could just go in there, do 9-12 and skip the 13-15. Abyss is pretty much a flex/leaderboard content anyways and most players don't care for it. They just want the primos. If there isn't primos, casuals prob won't touch it with a ten ft pole.
The healer take was real back in the day. Healers and Shielders were useless, unless if you were dogshit at the game. But nowadays, the current enemies are massive hitboxes and collision boxes with lingering properties with massive damage. You literally can't dodge everything because of both RNG and bad enemy design. I miss the old days of no healers in Abyss. Rifthounds were just the first mistake out of many.
I mean, we still have to worry about humongous hp bars that keep getting bigger and bigger, so healers while useful, still dont help much in doing max stars, hell, a lot of compa still use no healers or even shielders, lmao
@xLuis89x Oh, for sure. Sub DPS are still reigning supreme, but Healing Supports also became viable rn. You just need 1 Healing Support. The last 2 should be Sub-DPS and DMG Buff Support.
I only wish they add more floors in the abyss or every reset is to floor 1, not up the difficulty, they said it anxiety inducing to add more floor but instead make floors harder while the rewards remain the same. Good job HYV
@@pontoancora The rewards are one of the motive to progress further and it make the moment more "rewarding" otherwise other game won't make rewards corresponding to the difficulty or effort it took, also if not true then why they bother to give us rewards in the first place? Heh even Honkai impact have ranks abyss which give more rewards the more effort you took and every ranks you move forward are worth and proud since the rewards doesn't necessarily mean primos. As one of the earliest player who play since beta and always 36 stars since the second abyss till now, it doesn't make the moment sound special like other games
@@pontoancora Agree to disagree, I agree to that we play games for fun but the fun part isn't the concept in abyss. You can play any other contents and it's can also be more fun than abyss. If it is indeed for fun only it won't even have time restrictions. It's for "Optimizing your characters and team" which it can also be fun to mess around or hell to build and it can't be control as RNG. That why I can't fully agree to that. and as I mentions, The reward doesn't necessary mean Primogems, it can be anything like banners or decorations or even both like the predecessor, Honkai Impact, whose gave both banners or decorations to commemorate the moment you've been through which is super dope and make it special. Also sorry if I what said sound offensive or stuff, It's been a pleasant conversation so far!
Honestly I kinda wish they had a difficulty setting besides the world lvl, because I love hard games like elden ring and I really love the combat in genshin but the overworld is just disappointing. Its still fun to go around and explore, but it would be more fun if there was something to make it challenging even if it doesn't increase the primo rewards, like botw's master mode for example.
the difficulty level of floor 12 Abyss is what i want in overworld lmao but at least the less annoying ones i also wish they add more mechanics that you have to use in combat besides switching characters and casting E Q or normal attack so that the combat gets slightly more complex
@@pontoancora for you yeah, but other people want an actually challenging game yk. I find it boring when I can kill every single overworld mob in half a second.
As a Honkai 3rd vet, this isn't new as it's similarly named mode tends to favor specific teams each "cycle", though it has an additional "dynamic difficulty" to it (it's not unusual to do great with a strong team only to get an amped up cycle that needs your weakest team) It also brings to mind the arena, which has a similar insistence at the high end. GI's abyss going a similar way wouldn't be surprising. But the difficulty "increasing engagement" is plausible as among other things it's in part to keep the highest end players occupied so they don't jump over to another game out of boredom. I've seen MMOs do similar things at the end of a patch cycle.
There are no artifacts on honkai, and skill matters a lot more over there, since you actually have to dodge and the enemies have actual mechanics, not just high hp + time wasting "mechanics" like burrowing nonstop while becoming immune to cc and damage
The difference is that there's no stamina bar in Honkai. You're not artificially forced to tank hits or waste time walking, and Honkai's skill is largely how well you can execute your rotations with precise timing. You're also not facing getting stunlocked/one-shotted like in Genshin since the game actually balances around not having a healer or shielder, and most superstring floors don't have overly precise requirements like this current abyss. Do they exist? Yes, but usually it's not as big of an issue as it typically has several requirements, and partially meeting them will usually result in you at least not loosing your score and lowering your rewards up until Nirvana, and no one advices based on Nirvana, because that's the skilled+gigawhale difficulty that barely rewards you more than red lotus. edit: Also, superstring is structured differently from the abyss. You're not clearing everything at once. You select the boss directly once it's unlocked. Also, even when you hit a wall, you're wasting, at most, 3 days. For some godforsaken reason Hoyoverse decided that having one enemy lineup for a month and a half at a time is just fine in genshin, so that increases frustration in enemies with specific requirements.
one way to kinda put a band-aid on the issue is just to make a floor 13, I think. They can keep the absurd difficulty, but also maintain a middle ground. They do this for some combat-oriented events where to get full scores/reward, you really need to be incredibly good at the game and are willing to spend. I don't see why they can't implement this same principle to the Abyss.
Because it's not fair to create something solely for people who spend a lot. While creating a game with a fan base you need to think about EVERYONE, not just a few people who do extra stuff not required (spending money) because they make the abyss annoying but manageable with 4* teams, the abyss is end game content and is technically not something one needs to do at all costs, if they ever do a new abyss floor it will surely be because of the lore and they will keep it "balanced" for everyone.
If the abyss is too annoying I will just quit I don't restart, if I die easily I quit 😂 I can full stars the abyss before tho but not in the recent ones with too many annoying enemies
@@palmsaysstuffwdym for people that spend a lot? Even f2ps that have been playing for months to over a year could 36* the abyss up until the recent BS enemies A new floor honestly would benefit everyone, including f2p newer players, because then the jump from floor 11 to 12 wouldnt be so extreme. From floor 11 to 12 basically youre going from max world level to absurdity, for an example Wenut with 600k hp (i think i dont recall the exact HP) in the world, while the one on the abyss had 3 million HP, plus 55% damage resistance that could only be lowered to 30% for less than 10 seconds, basically you had 10 seconds (up to 20 seconds if you had enough time to do 2 rotations) to do 4 million damage
It's crazy! I feel bad for all the new players that reach this height, because I remember when Abyss was good and I wasn't anywhere near floor 12. Now that I am, I can't even 3 star one chamber due to the new mob upgrade. Especially with characters at lvl 90.
@@isaacarmendes3031 I agree and disagree because the level at which we were competing in the abyss at the beginning is much different than what we are competing at now. Due to that, the power scaling has changed with the plethora of characters we are pulling for. In that aspect, there is a power difference that many older players in the abyss can see compared to now. But I get what you're saying.
I'm not a new player but I never got 36 stars. I wanted to try it now see what the fuss was about and so far I got to the last chamber but sadly it's too tight of a DPS check.
@@pontoancora And that's not a bad thing. The abyss should increase in difficulty, but in what department of difficulty is the concern here. If all it is is more HP and buffs against certain elements then I can't agree with the methods. I would love different aspects added to abyss, aiding the fights we already have.
I think the whole "you don't need healers/shielders" and "shielders/healers are a waste in your team" was commonly said in the older abysses -- which I can agree to since they were much easier than the today's abyss. Rarely did I worry about dying back then -- I was more worried about clearing the floor in time. But enemies now, like the consecrated beasts, are thick as hell and do hella more damage so bringing a shielder/healer is definitely useful. I haven't really seen anyone say shielders/healers are a waste for this abyss cycle
People are confusing "Hard" with "annoying", just look at Magu Kenki versus the WolfLord, Magu Kenki is hard, the WolfLord is super annoying. Why? Because of player control. Magu Kenki is a test of reflexes and timing, although it can dash away from the player, the pattern from this dash is predictable and you can account this in your strategy, he does a lot of damage, but that damage is in easily identifiable bursts that you can dodge if you have good enough reflexes... Magu Kenki is good, specially the version where there's the anemo and cryo versión and you have to fight all three, that's hard... THAT'S GOOD. The Wolford isnt hard, it's just badly designed, his damage Windows are short, there's now way to dodge or even shield his damage, so there's restrictions as to the team you have to build. His invulnerable half of the fight.... And much, much more... The WolfLord isn't hard... IT'S ANNOYING. With that being said, the reason this abyss has made so many people angry to the point of literally quitting (Myself including) is that for the first time, hoyoverse has made something that is not only annoying, but it's also hard, which is just stupid. Now you have people at ar 60, with multiple 5 star, who only form of content is the spiral abyss reset every 15 days, who literally don't care about any new 5 star or event because our account is already cracked... And you give us the worst abyss yet?!? Don't get this wrong, this abyss isn't for the whales, or the casuals, this abyss is for no-one... And it made me realize the sad truth that genshin is never gonna be as good as I want it to be... Which is why I'm quitting until Fontaine comes out.... It's just not worth it man...
To me the 3 Herald were like that it was a nightmare XD lucky i did it just to find my self blocked at the last chamber j didn't knew about the last boss so i bringed my monopyro diluc team XD
Probably to late to give this advice. For 12-1-2, I used Hutao/Xiangling/Ganyu/Zhongli and consistently cleared it in time. Use Ganyu burst to keep the hydro mage and herald frozen, and use her E to CC. The dmg check is not very high, so Hutao/Xiangling can easily deal enough dmg. Melting the shield with those 2 is also easy as well.
@@supachaitengtakul5183 oh, did you? did you use 3 five star units to clear content that was clearable with 4 stars a year ago? Whats your refinement rank of staff of homa?
Yeh it's true that i got frustrated by this Abyss but it actually forced me to use a different team comp than my usual 2 to 3 teams. I fully believe a f2p player can beat this abyss of they have been playing for atleast 1 and a half year. So the feeling after beating is is pretty rewarding tho. I found a new team. And i actually like the combat in genshin anyway so it's ok according to me if they keep the difficulty at this level. Although i know a patch will inevitably come where i won't be able to clear the abyss and then maybe I'll understand the masses. For now I'm doing just fine.
@@Destiny_sm ya it's really not worth it. Only go for it if you think you can beat it. If you are struggling with like 2 min off the timer don't do it for 50 primos.
I've been playing for a year so we'll see in half a year if I can 36* abbyss for a first time 🤣I doubt it cuz it seems like they will just keep cranking the abbyss up and up (and I'm not even fully f2p since welkin and bp, but it's still, abbyss seems impossible)
One thing I'd like to say on my behalf. I honestly think the Baptist is a good one, because he may have shields, but he stays in one place, correct element destroys shields like a bubble and his health bar is laughably small. All the other heralds or lectors have overinflated hp and their shields do not really care that much about your element, as long as it's not the same. You should either have to have a team with good dps or a bit weaker team, that counters certain mechanics/elements.
It's definitely the toughest abyss, I basically just barely make the 3star threshold with c0 5 stars and mostly 4 star weps. Big shout-out to ayaka this abyss too, melt ayaka stonks on the rise
Ayaka good this abyss? All the cryo shields had me consciously choose to not use her. again. Even though shes my favorite character hands down. Though, I have never used melt ayaka before and pyro is my worst built element to begin with (and I dont use dudes, so no bennett)
@@xLuis89x yes I use Kazuha with my ayaka team, like most players. You can go with other teams that don't have kazuha. I passed with one team using venti for example.
if you dodge TOO much and don't hit the enemies enough , its a DPS loss. thats a perfect time to use a shielder or a character with interruption resistance. i dont think people get that if your carry or damage dealers are dying or dodging too much to actually do damage, then they arent doing anything LOL. sometimes bringing a shielder IS the meta option, and i think people forget that meta is an acronym for Most Effective Tactic Available. if not dodging consecrated beasts and whaling on them is more effective, bring a shielder
This. So many people forget about that. I was never interested in zhongli bc I never ran my hu tao with a shielded and did fine, but now I’m running her with tankfei and jeez the difference of hu tao with a shield vs none is crazy. It’s so much easier to just do your combos instead of me running around trying to dodge everything, which just ends up with me having to reset because I’m not doing any damage. And dodging wastes time, if you dodge too much you’ll have to reset your rotation and wait for hu tao’s skill CD again. In this abyss however, I literally have to dodge or else I’ll just die. And this is coming from a c1 hu tao haver.
I said this before in another video and I will say it again. This Version of Abyss has been way too specific and strict. But I will add I am not here to learn Herald, Lectors, Consecrated Beasts Behavior to save some time. I want the Primogems and clearing it as best to my ability. It's good to boast about it, but all I am here for is the Reward and an Hour or so of My Time. If I had to chase and dance around, deal with double health, Shielded Abyssal Enemies and Beasts two or three times that will dance around and get the perfect Position to get All 9* on Floor Twelve for the next two hours or so just to not get past 3 Minute Mark almost precisely. *Ohohoho, frick-a-this, hahahahah, wow.* I can get 60 Primos the next day for that. I haven't spend top-up and Welkin for this game, never will. I have 36* the previous Abyss before, not all of them, but this Version of Abyss is very Specific, nothing more and nothing less on my end.
I agree, they're just making it more and more annoying, time-wasting and squeeze all the fun out of it. It's just no longer fun. It's still possible to clear if you reset enough, minmax enough and pray for RNG to bless you after the 5th, 10th, or whatever, 20th reset if you're unlucky or a bit less skilled/blessed with characters or artifacts. It's still possible but... what little fun it had left has been squeezed out imo. They should either stop with at least half the time wasting (stuns, ragdolling, freezing, waves, spacing enemies out far apart, etc), or bump the time limit to 5 minutes like other floors, or maybe 4. It now boils down to investment and luck... and patience. Reset, reset, reset, reset, reset...... reset... isn't fun. The fact that enemies need to align properly, your attacks don't miss because of teleports, burrowing and whatnot and that you dont get frozen because you just dodged and cant dodge again right away just makes it a reset check that is for a large part out of your hands. It's terribly designed and the opposite of fun :/ EDIT: I'm like you mostly in it for the primos, though there used to be some fun to be had. And there still is in some f12 cycles and at least floor 11 and below. Another thing they could do is wind back floor 12 a more reasonable difficulty (make it less annoying) and add a 13th bonus floor that give you maybe some mora and exp books, but no primos. And make that the super annoying one. Then at least the seemingly few who like how it is can enjoy that and no one has to feel in any way pressured to reset for hours to get the primos (just letting them go if you miss 1 or 2 stars is hard for some)... the funny thing is they dont want to add more end-game content because they dont want to create anxiety in their players but thats exactly what theyre doing for droves of abyss players who are just starting to turn away from it more and more now. Not to mention new players who cant even clear it after more than a year of playing, which is crazy.
@@pontoancora I partialy agree. They should make floor 13 and rewards should be talents and mora and books. Then it could be at this level. They should also fckng cahnge that If I beat floor 11 or 12 I get reward for floors 9 and 10.
@@pontoancora It's fine to disagree, to each their own. I think they make it super annoying, you think it's funny. What IS funny is how everyone experiences it differently :P
Or maybe adopt the previous event mechanics. Earn x points to gain 3 stars Its up to you what and how difficult it will be by configuring hp, time limit, resistances, add on powers etc. Current power ups on your chars is minimal to non existing (only crit rate/dmg are what i can call buff as of the moment)
I am a light spender and only started optimizing my builds (not necessarily rotations) recently despite having played casually since launch. I have many characters and a handful of 5 star weapons. I don't use any guy characters because I don't want to - so bennett, hydroboi, zhongli and kazuha are out. Some of the characters I see most recommended (just use kazuha! people will say, like everyone has him, etc. ) Previous abyss was super annoying but I felt a great sense of satisfaction when I finally got the 36 stars. Normally I would just take my 30-33 and leave. It play the game to have fun. the abyss becomes more and more annoying - and I did not want to deal with that. Until I got bored and was like: I want to make the characters I love good. The previous abyss was a lot more nightmarish than if you look a year back, or more, back then I would 'accidentally' 36 star the abyss sometimes without meaning to. Or, get 33 stars and feel like 36 stars would be easy enough in an extra attempt or 2. The current abyss cycle??? Oh my god, it's so incredibly annoying, I can't see how anyone finds it fun - I'm sure some do, I just can't see it. I did manage to 36 star it, but it took me trying different compositions and resetting and stuff for hours on end. My favorite characters that are the best built don't work nearly as well in this one most of the time, the whole reason for me to even attempt the abyss is to use them in a more difficult setting - ok and I want the primogems now that I know I can do it.... most of the time. This cycle had me almost throw in the towel. Ayaka, Keqing, Mona, Nilou are my favorite characters. The many cryo shields shut down the freeze and niloubloom teams, it expects you to use pyro (and according to some, anemo, though I couldnt for the life of me make the swirls with jean and sucrose work) and those are my 2 worst built elements hands down. I almost never use anemo and pyro because most of the characters or playstyles interest me less. I had to carefully plan different teams to clear chamber 3, then chamber 2, then chamber 1 with 3 stars. And to get to chamber 3 with a sup-optimal team for chamber 1, I had to survive - this meant resetting a billion times. Stun, freeze, multiple attacks, dead. Again. Again. Again. Again. I found myself frozen and/or stunned for multiple seconds sometimes, enough for HP to go from 100% to 0% on most characters, heck even kokomi died TWICE and she has over 40k HP. Indeed, they make the abyss more annoying, more time-wastey, more damage spongey, add more waves, put them farther apart, etc. I can't see how a full free to play semi-casual player could do this without god roll artifacts, a lot more knowledge of the game than me despite being so casual, godlike skills (which can still be bypassed by ways you explained in the video, I mean, you cant forever) and the best RNG during his abyss run, or a billion resets. I actually had fun last cycle once I found my zone and got 36 stars, because I did it twice then and it was just fun. The current abyss cycle is just no fun at all. I got 36 stars, but I'm not happy, I'm just annoyed at what it took to get there. Just for some 50 primos and not even being able to use most of my favorite characters. I totally get they will make you use different teams. I have 3 completely different super strong (to me) teams with some characters I can swap in and out of them even, when I need to. And then I also have a slew of characters that are decent and can probably work with a bit more investment. And I don't think my Yanfei and Xiangling are horrible, but their DPS definitely was lacking compared to what was required to bring HP down fast enough to leave time for the slow-as-sh*t shield breaking they also have to do, all while dodging, iframing, trying not to die. Laylas and Kiraras shield both are pretty good, but they do break here. And in a lot of cases, characters get oneshot. I may escape a frozen state or stunlock, or get back up on my feet after having been flung across the room, only to switch to a character with more hp that gets killed instantly. The same cycle has started again and I got 2-2-3 stars in my first full run, but it took me about 20-30 resets to even arrive in chamber 3 with everyone I needed against the babtist still alive. The baptist isn't that hard, if you have the proper setup, but that requires a pretty wide array of characters AND you need to get to him without any dying. Room 2 will be okay I think, It was last time. But the 1st one with the 3 heralds is an absolute NIGHTMARE. And I just don't know if I can be assed to reset another million times to get it done. It's not worth it for the fun factor because it's no fun, it's not worth it for the 50 primos, because that's pocket change compared to how difficult it is and its not even 1/3rd of a pull and its also not worth it to test my favorites characters with - because most just don't work for it. Sorry for the essay, but yeah, that is my experience as a light spender who has only recently (say, 2 months or so) started diving into more efficient character building (but I did have some decent builds, chars and weapons already) - though I have seen some people do damage using characters I don't use that gets me drooling, but I won't use what I don't want to use. And I know, that is a restriction places upon myself. But it's still a game we play for fun and the whole point is: I don't think the challenge is fair and fun anymore. I feel like only the more hardcore players, veterans who have played and farmed for longer, or higher spenders can still do it and a lot of them even seem to agree this time that it's just insanely annoying, strict and time wastey.
I am normally good at dodging but in this 3.7 Abyss floor 12 cycle, it's impossible to be able to dodge everything. Since you can only dodge twice in a row and have to wait for internal cooldown to dodge again. And there are 3 Heralds and then 2 Beasts at the same time, it's possible enough to dodge one of them, but you'll be guaranteed to get hit by the 2nd enemy. Some form of healer or shielder are must have, even with only Xingqiu as defensive support in the team is simply just good enough to help you to survive.
I do think the git gud statement does apply to people with multiple meta five stars not clearing. They do just need to understand builds and team comps better. Nahida for example trivializes floor 2 when paired with suitable four star supports. As for people without meta five star comfort options? Yea I can see the concern with annoying enemies.
Yeah zhongli = don't worry too much about getting one shot nor about getting pushed around all over the place like a ping pong ball Kazuha: damage, I see every crit using account using him in the abyss and then say "you don't need as much damage, they are not that tanky 🤓🤓🤓 Nahida: premium dendro character Kuki? Vital in a lot of electro / dendro EM related teams, me as a day 1 player haven't got a single copy of her
Games are made for you to lose stress and anxiety not gain them even more . If you are a f2p player like me just think that there is no such thing as floor 12 and the Abyss ends at floor 11.
reminds me of enkonomiya. One of the challenges made you fight three of the.... vishaps? and before that i never struggled with any content. Sure, spiral abyss of course. But other open world content was a breeze. This was the first and only time outside the abyss in which i genuinely got shown that I'd need to spec into my ayaka more. And to a further extent some pyro characters to make the strayer domain easier. It wasn't that the wall was hit, it's that it happened without any forewarning. Even bosses i managed just fine for the most part without changing artifacts. Not to mention that having characters, and having good artifacts, weapons, talent levels, levels and supports are never guaranteed. Which is the biggest harm in being a gacha game. Because you never know what items your players have you either have to make the items near redundant or screw over people who don't have all the good stuff yet.
That Enkonomiya's quest was the most difficult, true, I even had to trick the vishaps to jump off the rock into the "abyss", my team was too underpowered. But there is also another overworld place - the last quest in the Tatara Tales - where I had to co-op and we still had several attempts to clear the two waves of Fatuis and Mirror Maidens. If I had the Hyperbloom team at that time, I would probably had no issues. Same goes for Masanori, I had to invest into my team after meeting him.
True game design is when the game teaches you skills you can polish and master by the end. The game doesnt really teach you i frames nor does it say, have a tell for enemies when theyre going to do something (mostly the annoying ads) like when the whooper flower is going to dive underground, give it a tell so the players can plan around. Punishing the player for random action the enemies do isnt satisfying. When the player gets the aha with mechanics like how in sekiro, every fight you have teaches you skills you use and hone that plays a role when you finally face the end boss. All those experiences come together and improve you. And its within the game. Not something like keqing mains had to dig underground mechanics for. Mihoyo still hasnt learned that entirely. Its cool its trying to force more diverse teams, but the diversity is a small pool of units already used a lot.
I think the worst aspect about genshin is definitely the lack of good in-game tutorials and gameplay explanations. For example, I've had many friends join at many different times and just get so lost in character and game mechanics. Watching prof. Zajeff is not a tutorial, like yeah not all things TC are essential to know but I feel like basic concepts of the game and the mechanics of specific characters should be more obvious for newbs and not require watching hours of youtube or chatting in TC servers. This also is why I'll talk to genshin friends new and old and they'll get blown away by some mechanic they didn't know about. The early game tutorials are really bad imo and after dendro, they should have added more in Sumeru. Its really obvious if your a veteran who makes an alt at some point that even now with a much shorter time to lvl up, the difficulty spikes and the miserably getting my butt kicked early game isn't even difficult with basic game knowledge and its just wild that there not better in game systems to teach players, so theres not lvl 45, or even 50 players esp new ones who lvled up in months not years who have played 100s of hours but got no game knowledge from it and just miserably get kicked around in the OW and early abyss with no clue how farm, build, or put teams together. Let alone get how reactions work or mechanical stuff or nuances of specific characters. On top of the fact new players/accounts *do* have it harder with less resources they also have no tutorial to learn what took us years. Doesn't help that a lot of people go in thinking it a waifu sim and then get upset cause they thought they could throw literally anything together and clear even with low investment and skill (actual ppl I know) or that if they are new they can't build every character yet.
This is the first abyss where I have the ability to clear it but I intentionally decide to leave it at 34 stars because I'm not having fun trying to get 36. It's just a big pain.
While I understand the frustrations with increasing mechanical and numerical difficulty with Abyss floor 12 (and it's undeniable that Sumeru rotations have been harder). I think the design problems that are at fault aren't what lies on the surface. "it feel like it's designed for a specific set of units" - yes, but those units are aggravate/tazer core (Beidou Fischl) and Xiangling core (XL Bennett). 4-stars from 1.0. I can definitely see how players get confused when the developers release SSR after SSR that end up being astonishingly mediocre or even awful in combat, while fairly accessible units continue to dominate. The fact that people continue finding ways to succeed in abyss with those old reliables instead of shiny new 5-stars is a very confusing design for a gacha game and I can totally see unsuspecting players getting baited into going for the wrong thing. "Overworld is too easy in comparison" - yes, this is true. This is by design. The game's primary appeal, or at least as the devs see it, lies in casual, story, and overworld content. Not a lot of players even engage with Spiral Abyss and the rewards it gives are disproportionately low (compared to endgame modes in many other mobile games) when compared with other content such as events. It's almost as if the developers don't really care if you beat Spiral Abyss or not. It's kind of just there because, well, a gacha game has got to have it. "Zhongli usage means more than half people aren't very good at the game" - it kind of does though. You'll be surprised but most video game players aren't good at video games, nor do they beat games to 100% completion as a rule. And this is totally okay! That's why there's room to talk about skill expression even in a game as simple as Genshin Impact. This isn't to shame people because it's not like the game tells you that by stacking Xingqiu and Beidou's ultimates you can achieve massive ~70% incoming damage reduction. And finally to address diving enemies - we've had mechanically challenging abyss rotations before. The very first one back in 1.0 was a nightmare, with freeze effect that drained your stamina, dreaded whopperflowers, as well as Fatui shield check that at the time was actually a challenge not dissimilar to what you have to do today to deal with Baptist or the Lectors. This isn't some kind of new addition that they just cooked up, it's just kind of the same concept scaled up for the times. Anyway, 3.8 will be easier. If you're not having fun, just skip a rotation, there's no shame in that and 120 gems definitely aren't worth the sweat and tears if you're not having fun.
*150 primos. But nope, still not a good abyss in any way whatsoever. No one should have to restart 20 times, and change teams for every specific floors every time, just to get all 36 stars.
@@Sergmanny46 Depends on which teams you're using. I ran Sucrose driving Aggravate Beidou-Fischl with Millellith Yaoyao on the first half and Nahida driving Burgeon Thoma feat. Bennett on the second side. I only reset 12-3-1 twice because the second Hydro reptile kept 2-shotting my Fischl with its ranged slashes the moment it spawned, but after adjusting my strategy (a.k.a. holding Beidou's skill instead of using Fischl's burst to apply Electro to the second wave), I had no need for further resets or team change on my first clear.
I agree with most of this. I dislike fighting the whopper flowers because they burrow a lot and the consecrated beasts because they move a lot and move you a lot but I have to disagree with the herald/lector type enemies. They do reward team building, rotations and timing a lot. Tbh this specific point, at least in part, is probably a matter of people's attachments to their favourite characters. While it is a shame you can't use someone like Itto or Eula very well against these enemies, a lot of people like myself don't mind using other characters, it's part of the fun for me. For new players, it can be pretty rough as their roster isn't versatile enough but I wouldn't call this a negative thing.
@@pontoancoraeula against those whopperflowers and against those machines that become untargettable all the time? Also they are pretty far apart most of the time as well
My first 36 stars were in patch 1.1 and I can say that abyss is just abysmal ( :) ) for me nowadays. I have long ago decided to stick with 30-33 stars and it has saved me a lot of nerves
@@lavion8090 nope you're wrong. Try to beat this with only dendro traveler as you dendro unit cuz thats my only built dendro unit. I dont have any 5 star dendros. Its impossible. I can ALWAYS 36* but now i cant
Another problem with the abyss is the rewards. The levels gets harder and harder each time it updates but the reward is still 150 primos (not even one pull). You have to three star the round or else you’re getting less than that. Wasting all that time and energy for minimal rewards feels unaccomplished and tiring
this is in my top 3 most favorite abyss cycles ever 1. the abyss national team (hydro herald, cryo and electro lectors cycle) 2. the 12-3 20 rifthounds cycle 3. this abyss freeze team cycle I will always prefer this abyss cycle over the Ruin Serpent, Golden Wolflord, and the Setekh Wenut, ALL DAY EVERYDAY. The consecrated beasts are the most well designed Sumeru enemies since, guess what, they actually do DMG and have sick movesets, instead of the Jadeplume Terrorshroom who just flails and collapses after getting hit by electro, the ASIMON matrix who is an invisible tsundere who does no DMG, and the Setekh Wenut who is the ultimate tsundere buffed with 40% elemental resistance in the abyss. 😂
Wow so you like it when you spent months maybe years building your characters and making that work useless? And you like not doing anything but spam the space bar? Rifthound i can agree tho just use a healer and you're good
I agree here too. It feels closer to that time I first 36 starred, try harding for 6 months, learning strats, builds, gimmicks (tf Bennett). A year in and it became just a thing to do for primos and mats. This was very fulfilling and forced me to think, use different team comps, had to change build to higher er due to shields, tried burgeon for the first time. Yanfei ftw! Now I'm exploring other off meta teams just to try. More to do now, and fairly excited about it.
Disagree on everything except one thing: The gold flying wolf, ruin serpent and the setekh wenut. Those 3 abominations shouldn't ever return to the abyss.
Serpent and Wenut also have some set of characters like nahida , yae , yelan etc that can make runs more smoothly so it all came down to do you have this and that characters or else keep retrying for better result . It's the same as this abyss but i consider this abyss being more restrictive and enemies do a lot of damage too . For my 3 years old account , i can comfortable go though this abyss because i have many characters and good artifacts but i don't think it's possible for majority of players who play about a year under
So like they shouldn't nerf the abyss but buff the shit out of the open world, I'm a for it man, have some bullshit consecrated beast jump out of nowhere and fuck up my character, that would be amazing. Like just buff up there damage agro range with like 50% more, maybe 200% on an AR60+ difficulty and bamn, it's easy. Although they'll have to make changes so running away isn't as easy, like not being able to open the Map or just being trapped in the boss room until your characters fall
@@Crusader-yq1bf well I don't think they should increase the drop rate in domains or Primogems drop rates, but I don't see a reason for not having higher drop rates for open world enemies and bosses. Considering their inflated health bar. Besides like they could have a requirement like having atleast 6 stars in last 2 abyss cycles to even activate the highest world level, and if you can't maintain the abyss performance you'd get demoted.
@@itsame7491 I just want people to feel forced to go into it if they genuinely aren't looking for that kind of a an experience. Maybe an achievement for doing 400 commissions on that difficulty would be fine.
@@Crusader-yq1bf I understand, that's why a I don't want more tedious end game like simulated universe in HSR. I just want to have some semblance of challenge in the core gameplay again, without having to nerf myself to hell. This is why proper player tailoring is necessary and being only able to access the highest level after you have proved yourself in some way like the abyss should be mandatory.
That Abyss was hell for me and I have C2 Raiden. Low spender btw. Building Raiden is a bit bothersome since you need a ton of ER and good crit split. She's probably my hardest hitting character, yet it's kinda useless when you can't hit the enemies, they're scattered or they have shields. I generally get 33 stars because the last 50 primo ain't worth it, but that Abyss I stopped at 30. And I struggled for those. This Abyss I finally got 36 stars with ease
a lot of whales not even play the abyss. why would they do that? that 100 primo is useful just for us the low spenders or f2p. why hoyo is abandon us? this game was really fun, but now i just feel i burned out. just do some artifacts or other things if its avaible. the events are boring, if sometime i want to pull on a character it come with high pity and a lot of time i loose the 50/50. the artifacts system is just horrible. the only interesting thing is the abyss, what is just got harder and harder with every patch. i dont wanna abandon this game cuz i playing a long time and i want to see what comes next, but... if not coming any new region or story or archon quest is just boring. yeah i really burned out now.
I don't think your burnout is from Hoyoverse specifically. Burnout happens, it's normal. Just take a break, it's okay! That's what I do when I feel a little defeated.
Artifact RNG is the main problem, as f2p AR60(1.0 player) who got 89mil mora and making my acc ded out of boredom, the fact to get perfect artifacts as f2p takes about 2-4 months of artifact grinding, then requirements for the artifact will be like: -Main Stat -Sub Stat Complete(all 4s) -Sub Stat require Crit Rate and Crit DMG -Sub Stat Flawlessly Upgraded Crit Rate or Crit DMG(As in you get 40% Sub Stat Crit Rate/Crit Dmg) not required(depends): -Sub Stat that has 2 HP%/+ or DEF%/+ and ATK+ = bad Sub Stat rest sub stat depends, but it might be very bad if it did not aim for Crit Rate/Crit Dmg Me: dead inside waiting for God Characters 10.0 that One Shots like "Heavenly Principles - Unknown God" lol xD, archons depends now
i've been 36*ing abyss for over a year and have all the characters (except for two), most of which are built. what's a bit disappointing to me is that i can't play abyss with different teams. i have to use the same type of compositions due to restrictions, like shields and time loss if you don't group enemies. kazuha hasn't had a break in a minute. i also hate enemies who phuck you against the wall (the beasts) or come at you every which way that the only way to dodge them is if you completely ran away from the fight (the abyss mfs). i love when i get frozen and can't use my skill 3 times in a row! great gameplay :D i agree with the overworld and abyss being on two different levels. i wish overworld was a bit harder, and abyss more practical. i have a friend who has been playing for a year and has worked really hard to build two solid teams with good stats, just for it to not work with abyss at all. abyss is what i look forward to the most, but i don't feel the same joy i used to. i dunno..
8:44 Not only that. But some characters deal LESS damage if they dodge, even lower if the enemies are very aggressive and force you to dodge more often, so you spend 40% of the time dodging, and thus ONLY 60% of the time attacking. So if you wanna avoid Dodging altogether, you can just use Zhongli, whose shield is still basically unbreakable when built well enough, so you can attack non-stop
I miss the 3.7 spiral abyss ngl. And, the reason why people say get good is because, there are some skills involved in the abyss. I stopped playing the game during jan of this year due to a burnout and came back after I heard how difficult the 3.7 abyss was and I wanted to challenge myself to see if I could still do it after not farming for 6 months (I have a horizontally invested account and I am a day one player). It took some resets to 36 stars it because I had to tackle chamber by chamber with different comps. I eventually learnt that just by standing behind the hydro beast and constantly hugging him would make the grouping and ragdolling alot more managable. He also concidentally body blocks the dendro beast from hitting you. Which is nice. I also took benette out of my team and put yaoyao as my healer and played an aggravate comp instead so I don't get one shotted by their atk combos which helped me insanely in terms of how much damage I was taking. And that is a level 70 yaoyao with level 1 talents, so honestly, it seems disingenuous to completely dismiss skill issues. Because there are ways to mitigate damage by just playing smartly in that abyss and running units that won't get you vaped or burgeoned by the beasts. Which I reckon is why alot of the players felt that the damage was undodgeable. Because the same thing happened to me. I was just getting one shotted by the beasts when I'm on benette's circle. And it's only later that I realized, Benette was the issue because of the pyro cleanse he gives you. Floor 12-1-2 was pretty easy with the international comp since you can just swirl the cryo onto the hydro guy and then use xl and benette to melt away the cryo shields. And 12-3-2 the bishap's shield is pretty weak so it isn't much of an issue as long as you have the right elements (again, benette xl xq is really good here and they have been around day 1 and are available to get from the shop so there are no excuses for f2ps/low spenders to not build them if they actually care about doing the abyss). But I can also understand it may be frustrating for players who invested vertically, anti-meta players, or newer players that do not have the right elements to break the shields on the heralds. But honestly, other than that, I think most of the crucial characters for that abyss are 4 stars, so it's not really that much of a whale catering content and more of a investment and teambuilding knowledge check to see if you've invested in the right units (and that's where meta becomes really helpful because it tells you which units are worth your limited resources if you're an f2p/low spender) In terms of the zhongli argument that you've made, yeah. I completely agree with that, if you can use zl and still have enough dps to meet the checks then go ahead and use him. He makes the game very comfortable to play. But the issue arises is that, when a player don't have enough dps to meet the checks, then zl quickly becomes a character that they would wanna replace in their team, and that's when dodging and deciding which hits can and cannot be taken becomes important (which is also skill issue). No one is saying to not use healers or shielders, but I do believe that lots of other healers can offer so much more to your comp than zl, such as kuki for hyperbloom or yaoyao for aggravate, and they work perfectly fine as solo sustain as long as you don't face tank all the hits like you would with zl and they take abit more skill to utilize. And even no healer/sheilder comps such as sucrose taser, actually have sustain, in the form of damage reduction from beidou and xq's burst and xq also heals at the end of his e duration, that's why sacrificing a unit for a dedicated healer is not recommended, because the comp already offers enough damage mitigation for you to not run another healer/shielder in most cases to maximize dps if that is what the player needs to beat the timer. And if you really need a heal, prototype amber sucrose could also work. Idk, all in all, I liked the 3.7 abyss. Having a more difficult abyss gives me a goal and reinvigorates my interest for the game. Now I'm back and farming xp books so i can finally 90/90 my electro units to maximize my aggravate damage (since i was playing with a 80/90 beidou and fischl when that abyss came out). But I do think, they could've put that as a floor 13 instead with lesser rewards so people don't mald over not completing it. But personally, spiral abyss is the most entertaining aspect of the game for me, and it is the reason why I play and build characters, so I enjoyed the challenge.
i usually challenge aeonblight drake to test my team rotation. If the team can clear it with 1 rotation (for single target focus team) + some skills (multi/ mob team) or fewer without major enegy issue, its mean the team enough for abyss
Remember they say this game doesn't have end game content but at least it is F2P friendly ? Oh man, didn't age well. Now it's Whale focus AND still not having end game content
As a Hardcore player whose been getting 36* since patch 1.3 & someone who makes content on the Abyss, let me share my two cents on why Abyss is really difficult: 1. Enemies that stall (I-frame or straight up unhittable) 2. Enemies with Elemental Shield that take forever to break (Lectors & Heralds) (Thus, Elemental Check) 3. Enemies which move to one end of a chamber far away from you 4. Enemies that are spawned 3 miles away from each other (CC/Crowd Control check) 5. Chambers with multiple waves of enemies that won't spawn the next wave unless the previous one has been dealt with 6. Overworld Bosses placed in the Abyss with a forced mechanic/move (Aeonblight Drake w/ instant flight or ASIMON w/ invisibility) 7. Enemies with moves that can basically stun-lock you & delete your character afterwards Abyss has only gotten more difficult because the Enemy Design is getting progressively worse plus the Artificially Induced Difficulty from the way the enemies are positioned & spawned. I truly miss the times when we only had Ruin Guards & the Primo Geovishap in the Abyss since they were pretty well-designed for how straightforward their mechanics are.
As someone with high ping that goes up and down regularly as I play, the idea of perfectly timing a dodge is impossible, if my ping remains at one number I can do the dodge according to the lag but when it goes up and down all the time predicting the lag is impossible. So a shield or healer is necessary for me. I have been able to clear the most recent abyss cycles (as f2p) but it did take some resetting and going through a second time with different teams to get the best options.
I think the *no need a healer or no need a shielder* argument has been put out of context too much. TenTen made his point when saying *zhongli is not that good* it's because, a shielder is just a shielder. Unless if you hyper invest on your team, having a shielder might be a dps loss. Therefore, it would be better for you to go for more dmg buffer or anything else that could help you meet the dps check. If only abyss is not a time-attack, then yes, people would clearly value healer and shielder (assuming the enemies are just going to oneshot you) For this abyss however, the problem lies with: You need to survive and you need to be fast. This also address as of why abyss is a poorly designed *endgame* content. Again, if we can fight these mfs without having to care about the time, I am sure the majority of players would appreciate it. Anyway nice Insight and your pov on the state of the current abyss. Personally I love it, but I understand the frustration of players about it. To me, this is the right difficulty not because of my pride but because I love challenge. I don't care about the extra 50 primogems, what is worth is the challenge it gives me.
It’s not just the Abyss; the enemies’ design are also poorly done. They’re designed to either waste time, to be too passive, or spongy, not to actually fight/kill you, and this is done right down to the mere Hilichurl. The only Exceptions are the Lawachurls and Axe-wielding Mitachurls, which I think are the best designed enemies in Genshin. Consecrated Beasts are just sponges designed to waste time on top of their aggressiveness, which is mostly made to stun and throw around the character.
Yeah TenTen’s opinion on Zhongli aged poorly. Zhongli is not “just a shielder“ he’s the best shielder and gives good buffs and his ult is way more useful than people realize. Losing 5 seconds on abyss clear but halving the time you spend overall is why people use Zhongli. People don’t wanna speedrun abyss to flex their time, they just want primos.
@@pepperpig649 try and read my whole comments thoroughly. It's not about the speedrunning, it's about meeting the dps-check that is required. And putting zhongli there, with your team not having enough dmg to clear abyss in time, won't do much. Hence why the argument *he is just a shielder* is there Other units give greater buffs to boost your dmg. Zhongli gives comfort, that's what he has. His *burst* animation is too long and unless you build him dmg, it's not that useful. Again if you hyper-invest on your units, using zhongli will benefit you. That's the point he was making
You’re missing my point. You’ll have to reset multiple times without reliable defensive units causing you to spend more time trying to clear it. Zhongli is most usually not the problem in the equation that leads to you not being able to clear it in time. Dodging is also a dps loss if you didn’t know and vs enemies like in chamber 3 first half floor 12 it doesn’t matter if you dodge you’ll die anyways so you’ll be stuck to quickswappy teams to eyeframe AND EVEN THEN you’ll probably die anyways because the enemies attack every millisecond staggering you. Go look at the usage rate. Zhongli sits at 60% and this data comes from f2p to leviathans. Zhongli doesn’t only shield, he decreases enemy resistance by 20% and gives you 20% atk with artis. His own personal damage is also not bad while he can basically lock small to medium large enemies in place with a 10 second cooldown. YOU CAN NEVER GET HIT AFTER USING ZHONGLI ULT TO EYEFRAME ON SMALL TO MEDIUM LARGE ENEMIES. If people really cared for squeezing a tiny bit of extra damage then why zhongli 20-30 times more used than sucrose? I don’t even have Zhongli. But to say he’s “just a shielder = dps loss 🤓” is the cringiest shit ever.
@@pepperpig649 Plus, those meta nerds seem to forget Zhongli's shield has a 15% res shred to everything. So... he's technically improving your dps by a whopping 15%, 100% of time, on top of giving you survivability, and no need to dodge which IS an actual dps loss for characters that don't like to get interrupted (Ganyu, Yoimiya, Xiao, etc etc). Take that, dps slavewhores/speedrunners.
Another issue is just how hard artifacts are to get. As someone who has spent money on genshin and has been playing for a year (no resin refreshes) and farms artifacts basically everyday I'm not building talents, I still haven't been able to build the most optimal things on every character. If the game worked on knowledge then every artifact piece I get would have perfect rolls and substats.
I have what you could call an abyss ritual I do every abyss. Since about 1.4 or so, vape diluc and melt ganyu have been my go to's (consistent 36 stars). First 36 star clear of every new abyss is with them, partly for the ritual and partly to see the difficulty of each new abyss. This abyss was the first one in a while I had to back out, switch the team sides, and go back in to clear a specific chamber in floor 12. I died to more BS and cheese this abyss than any other, this abyss was just badly designed imo. Edit: I also do abyss mainly for the challenge/the stars, so this one sucked extra hard for me. Sorta f2p, spent money to get diluc skin but nothing else.
I 36-starred this season's Abyss with 2 c0 5star units, and I'm f2p: 1st half: Xingqiu, Sucrose, Fischl, Beidou 2nd half: Nahida, Bennett, Xiangling, Ayato Beidou destroys aoe content, especially when there's 2 enemies. Her c1 shield is sturdy enough with her and Xingqiu's damage reduction stacking. Aggrevate is an alternative that should work if you need Xingqiu on the 2nd side, so you can replace him with a dendro too. For the 2nd side, Nahida is just there for shields, and is replaceable. Ayato is also replaceable by Childe or Yelan. Xingqiu would also work here if you want to take him from the 1st side. Also, I don't own Zhongli.
I'm so freaking mad Xingqiu is required for abbyss, not even Bennet and Xiangling or Kazuha have this staying power, I know it's probably just me but I got so tired of him being a necessity
@@Szczurzyslawa He's a necessity because no other hydro characters except 5* are dps class. Barbara? Healer, and arguably the worst in the game. Mona? Debuffs enemies, not really built for damage. Although can work as nuke/freeze teams. Kokomi? 5* Barbara. Candace? Let's not talk about that. Nilou? Too niche/restrictive. The only ones left that can be used for dps are coincidentally 5* characters. Tartaglia, Ayato, Yelan. Also tazer team not that good for 12-3-1. Tried it, couldn't kill the 4 beasts with enough time for second half. And no, my artifacts are decent, but I refuse to slave myself grinding artifacts for 1 year to get ones that are barely marginably better. 250 cv in all 3 of them except Sucrose, she only needs EM (and she has 900+).
@@Sergmanny46 Yeah, people really don't feel the lack of hydro 4* because theres so many hydros in general but they're all 5* and that's pretty whack to me.
@@Szczurzyslawa What's not whack is that you can actually guarantee yourself a 5* hydro character if you're patient and disciplined with your primos. The same cannot be said about 4*. For example you can spend 300 pulls and not get a single Xingqiu, but 28 Dionas and 3 Kukis. Luckily for you not all is lost. You can still get Xingqiu from the shop twice a year (March and September), so you still have plenty of time to passively get 34 starglitter to get him. His sword though... you'll need a bit of luck yes, but you can either use favonius sword or sapwood blade as replacements.
@@Sergmanny46 As someone who didn't get a single Faruzan in 90 pulls I'd know so yeah but tbh it IS whack it's harder to get 4* in this game than 5* With swords it's not that easy cuz my fav is taken by Kazuha and sapwood by Benny, and yeah Xq will be in the shop eventually, but if I lack wishes for a certain 5* I want no glitter will be left. But yeah, those very few and inbetween 4* are actually gettable
I think this video showed me that without my C2 Nahida, I prob. wouldn't of been able to clear this with 36* Floor 1 First half: Nilou/kokomi/nahida/beizhu (yes a fully 5*team with broken c2 nahida) to have as much time possible for 2nd half. second half: Kazuha/Ganyu/xiangling/benny: Lots of burst action here. i needed INSANE ER to do this team properly. xiangling had 275er, benny 250, ganyu 200er. xD this was legit the only team i had that can do this within 1min 45-2min Floor 3 First half: Raiden EM, C2 Nadhia, C1 yelan, Kokomi (with r5 sac wep. sac wep is required as the conc beasts move u so much that u need to recast ur jellyfish all the time for repositions. kokomi is pretty much required as you need to try to keep in her ult form for interrupt resistance and an absolute tank/healer/hydro application for critting hyperblooms. If these conc beasts werent hydro/dendro, they would explode instantly to this dmg) --still takes me 1min and 20seconds to beat it :/ 2nd half: Ayaka/xinqiu/xiangling/benny: without having 1min and 30ish seconds for this phase. my benny/xiangling/xinqiu dont do enough dmg for less than 1min clears like ive seen others on youtube. You need to be in FULL energy for team to even work. Ayaka needs to burst hydro and get lots of dmg in. side note, i do have Mist splitter xD. this was my fastest team. My kazuha sucks currently. but without my crazy hyperbloom/nilou bloom teams with c2 nahida, i rly dont have any other team to give me so much time to break the shields. You need massive dmg dealers for the first half.
I think this Abyss is great, and I also think the abyss should only get harder, with the assumption C0 5 Stars and C4-6 4 Stars are still able to full clear. Even if it reaches a point I can't clear it anymore that just means I need to build into different teams and units, it gives value to other characters that were not being played on my account. We need a place that can challenge the players and that place is currently only the Abyss as of now. Abyss should not be an easy means to get free 600 primos. That's my opinion.
The crux of the issue isn't the abyss being hard but rather why is it hard. When talking about difficulty there are 2 main forms. The lazy form which only increases the stats and number of enemies, and the creative form which adds more mechanics. The problem with this abyss is that it does much much more in the way of increasing stats rather than adding mechanics. When a player states they want a hard fight they don't mean a bullet sponge that one-shots them if their pinky toe is too far forward. What they mean is a fight that has meaningful mechanics that the player will have to deal with. Mechanics are not just dodging, they are certain actions the player has to make in order to avoid being affected, this takes into account player placement, enemy placement, any interactable objects, and what phase the boss/enemy in question is currently at. This form of difficulty can only work when ALL players have access to the same opportunities, this is a gacha game therefore not all players have access to everything. Additionally players don't like being pigeonholed into a specific character or element, this is because not everyone has enough recourses to build more characters and artifact sets. People want to use the characters they like not just use the only character that is effective. No one wants the abyss to be easy, they want it to be challenging in a good way like adding a boss with actual mechanics not just increasing the stats of all enemies. Also fun fact the consecrated beast has more HP than the entire Tartaglia boss fight this is a problem that should be addressed, but Hoyoverse most likely will not fix it but rather just make it worse in future patches.
@@wushutwist4234 you said it yourself, this is a Gacha and not ALL players have access to the same opportunities (Characters, Elements, Gears, etc.) Even if hoyo added these mechanical challenges, only some players will be able to clear while leaving no room for the others to actually having a chance since they just don't have the things to overcome the mechanics. Sounds worse in my opinion. But I'm here to understand people's views, if the fact enemies are becoming too tanky, can 1 shot our characters (especially in bennet's ult lmao), smart enough to run to stall for time 🤣 in a time challenge, placed in synergistic elemental compositions to freeze, burn, vape, overload our characters to oblivion aren't really mechanical difficulties. Then what would you suggest they do to make it what players want, while keeping the abyss fair and accessible to many accounts?
@@theRaika I may have worded it incorrectly but I was referring to just increasing the stats of an enemy when I said it only works when players have access to everything. The bigger problem here is the genshin was not made to satisfy players like me who want mechanical challenge rather than statistical challenge. Mechanical challenge can be overcome by skill, but at a certain point statistical challenge will be impossible to clear for players who have not grinded for 2+ years. The challenge players want is mechanical challenge, this is almost impossible to satisfy because there is not enough time in-between spiral abyss resets to create new mechanics for multiple bosses. My preferred way to handle this want for difficulty is to first have 1 team, this solves a small problem that players face because not everyone has the time or resources to build 2 teams of characters. I would then add 3 world bosses and 1 weekly boss in a sort of boss rush mode. When creating a mode like this you need to give every boss a new mechanic or 2 so that the fight does not feel stale. You also need to increase the stats of those bosses so that they cannot be killed too quickly, increasing enemy stats is only lazy when it is the only form of difficulty that was added. Lastly instead of make it a time attack mode I would instead add specific challenges to that boss like "Don't get hit for x seconds", this solves the problem of the abyss also being a DPS check. However this solution is not without flaws, first this requires every boss to get new mechanics which in a 2 week time frame is impossible. In order for this to work the abyss needs to be overhauled so that all bosses do have new moves and mechanics specific to the abyss prior to implementing this. Second this type of mode is not everyone's cup of tea, while I would like this mode not everyone would. Needless to say the current style of abyss is fine, but at this rate newer players will have a hard time even clearing the abyss let alone 36 star it. If there are any flaws that I have missed feel free to let me know.
Its only 150 Primos so its not really bothering me that much anyway. That may be because of the fact that im fairly new and i havent even explored most of Inazuma and Sumeru. This brings me to the conclusion that the only people bothering are the ones that already cleared every content in the game. So the solution is not to hyper-adjust the Abyss rather than bringing actual meaningful and fun endgame content to the table. The playerbase just has to clearly voice their opinions instead of crying over a meaningless treadmill endgame.
Well infact i have the same argument for the "u dont ne to bring healer/shielder, just dodge it" this abyss is just out my brain. But the fact that i xan clear it back then is also a sign that its still clear able. My team was baizhu fischl beidou with multiple reset like 50-90 😭
The fact that people can clear the recent abyss with decent investment vs the people with same investment or more cant is just really a skill issue. I see people even streamers crying while having whale accounts lmao. Atleast we see now who people wrote "anxiety" in the surveys.
I used Kazuha, Childe, Bennett, and Xiangling on one team, and Nilou, Nahida, Kirara, and Xingqiu on the other. Had retry for the middle part and swap the teams, Nilou is amazing vs the Thunder Manifestation btw. Got 36 stars.
Before the 3.7 abyss I didn't use zhongli I just pull for him to complete my archon collection and a backup if I don't feel like dodging in the abyss but when the 3.7 abyss came out I have to use zhongli for my hyperbloom Raiden and replace xq with zhongli just to survive. And the 4 Concentrated beast, I have to restart so many times bcuz either it's that they want to group or just very hard to dodge atks. And I hate that you need a specific element to clear the floor like in the second half there are abyss herald that needs pyro to clear, so I usually just don't 3 star on the first run and just come back to 3 star the first chamber. And also having specific characters to have easier clearing time, I don't if this is true but why is second half seems easier if you have yoimiya.
The thing is, for me at least, Hoyoverse (more specifically, the Genshin team) gave up on the game. Genshin is an incredibly complex and complete game, they just dont care about it. This abyss shows it, its is not abou how much money you can gorge the game with, cuz it is neither hard nor competitive enough to need it, if one ACTUALLY play the game, grind their characters and have some knowledge around the game's system, they can face roll through everything, they don't need c6r5 characters to do so. Hoyoverse is too scared to listen to the ones actually playing the game because they are scared of "shoo-ing" the casuals. This game was too popular to begin with, and they became hyper fixated on keeping the numbers high, disregarding the ones that actually care about the game. Casuals wont be loosing anything by not playing the actual endgame the people that actually want to see the game grow want, they don't play enough to have the right to care. Now hoyo is trying to keep the long term players that became saturated with the company's lack of attention towards their opinions, but they dont want to make the casuals mad by introducing content that they wouldn't bother to play anyway. How they do it? With increasingly infuriating abyss cycles that portray this false idea of difficulty by plopping enemy formations that have the sole task of stall and make us think "maybe I could've done it if i payed to have so and so thing, or maybe if i invested more time I could've made it". They know what they're doing and they do so because they don't need to care about the game's actual players. That is my opinion on the hole "abyss" situation.
" they dont want to make the casuals mad by introducing content that they wouldn't bother to play anyway." - genshin tcg in a nutshell. All jokes aside, I feel that enemies that burrow underground or have s isn't inherently "bad" so to speak, but everything just boils down to the fact that we are being restricted by a 3 minute timer. Had there been alternate win conditions introduced, such as protecting the monolith, or even something like "do not take more than a cumulative 20000hp in damage (hp subtracting skills excluded)", then the abyss would be MUCH more enjoyable for everyone (but of course, we all know that's not gonna happen). In a nutshell, I feel that the very fundamental gameplay of the abyss isn't enjoyable/tolerable enough because it always passively coerces/tempts you into spending on banners, which objectively upgrades your characters and aren't some optional cosmetic upgrade. No wonder games like honor of kings still reigns over genshin by a mile in the chinese market
Bro, even with my best teams, I couldn't even clear the Abyss Floor 12 with zero stars (let alone nine), because I keep getting frozen every two seconds, which got me killed multiple times.
You can't keep the same rewards since launch with this huge difficulty spike and expect people to not complain. It's not really worth the effort. I pretty much one and done it. Unless there was an obvious mistake I can reset, I'm plowing through regardless how many stars I have.
I stopped caring about the abyss in about 1.6. I just skip floor 12 all together. 150 primos isn't worth my sanity. I already have a full time job. I play this game to relax and chill, not stress on the meta and hard grind artifacts all day.
I don't mind the enemy lineup. I don't mind the assembly of the element. I don't mind bosses with a lot of HP and oneshot abilities. These are all things I can build my teams around and aside from the random roll of gatcha artifacts, it's ultimately just a matter of time. I carefully chose my 2 teams to entertain me, they can handle multiple and single enemy, they can break any shield. But what bothers me is the random stupid movement of the enemies, when they randomly jump around the whole arena without any pattern. Even though I can handle abyss and I'm already at the stage where I don't care about the number of stars but the shortest possible time, these random attacks and movement is the only thing that can't be controlled and prepared for, which means that the game lacks any skill, which you are building. Not only control of characters, but also their readiness, choice of artifact (everyone from TH-cam knows which artifact is best for whom, but everyone has limited artifacts and the point is not to make one character strong, but to have two balanced teams, between which you distribute the power of the artifacts and teams work), weapons, team building. It's all part of the skill and then it's broken by an idiot enemy with no intelligence who randomly jumps to the other side of the arena just because. I hate it so much.
The thing driving me mad about this abyss is that I know I have everything I need to beat it but since I don't have a solid freeze comp, I can only get 35/36 stars, despite trying for genuine hours. There is a difference between difficult and ridiculous. The consecrated beast floor is ridiculous and this fight genuinely punishes anyone who doesn't have a viable freeze comp because theyre not just tanky and hit hard, they're also extremely mobile. That's not to say other teams cannot beat floor 12-3 but when it starts becoming a problem that you dont have specific characters, that's when theres an issue. It's encouraged (if you dont have cracked freeze comp...) you stay by the gator and fight by a wall so the tiger can just follow you but that's not even a secure strategy because the gator will quite literally ungroup and cartwheel across the arena for no reason at all, despite you being right next to it. To top it all off, the gator is quite actually sluggish and moves towards you in a slower rate than the tiger who will just run towards you. Like it is IMPERATIVE that both beasts are burned down at the same time. So, when one of the beasts AI makes it so it's going to move itself (AND EVEN THE PLAYER SOMETIMES) out of place, now a fight that was simply difficult suddenly becomes annoying and not fun.
I believe that the people complaining about this abyss also complain that their is no incentive to play other characters and healers an shielder at not need so it is more a whale thing and not for f2ps
When I came back from work at like 9pm after a rough day, saw the abyss reset, cleared floors 9-11 in a little under 30 minutes and spent another 1 and half on floor 12 only to leave with 2 stars. That's when I stopped caring about this rotation. I don't got the time to care like that.
You know shits gotten real when even pc players who has objectively better controls have a hard time clearing abyss and genshin was supposed to be designed for mobile in the first place. Abyss just needs to have alternative win conditions other than having to beat a floor in 3 minutes for full rewards.
Watching this after 3.8 abyss dropped. I am just like you, low spender. I was able to clear EVERY abyss until the 3.7 one. I think i had whopping 270 restarts before i just gave up for my sanity..i am willing to say that even Welnut abyss was better than this was.. Thank god that 3.8 abyss is like a breeze in the wind, fun and just enough hard to keep me going
The keyword for abyss nowadays is “stalling impact”. I did 36* abyss with a 10+ retries and i am not proud of it. But here’s the catch, imagine doing abyss on mobile. It stalls and it loads forever. Then someone will say to you to “get good”.
I think either the community, or the game needs to know what it wants the abyss to be. Is it endgame content? Is it supposed to scale smoothly or raise in spikes? Who is supposed to be able to clear it and who's supposed to know they shouldn't be able to anyways and try at their own risk. I think if that's settled this debate can move further in some way. Because right now what the community wants the abyss to be is not what the abyss currently is.
I can confirm... It's really about getting good. My friend said he couldn't clear. So I logged into his account and cleared it within 2 attempts not even realising the one of the characters wasn't equipped Why this abyss 12 is challenging is that you require a wide variety and very specific characters to 9* it consistently. You also need planning and positioning and a bit of luck in the top half.
Doing Slave Knight Gale SL1 hitless is just easier that doing abyss 12. Genshin as a game is so easy but if you want to meet the damage requirements of abyss you have to grind artifacts and books like crazy. I have no time (or money) to do that so I just do not touch floor 12 lately.
I am player sence 1.3 and now finally i felt comfortable enough to try floor 12 and i have most “metah” characters i don’t have ayaka ayato nahida yae miko kazuha. But i have raiden yelan ganyu hu tao itto and some others i think. But the harolds are just painaful i don’t mind the hp or the attacks but the shields are so STRONG for no reason
I think that not being able to clear the abyss should not be seen as a negative thing, it should be seen as an opportunity to improve your account and try different things, but it's difficult to get players to see it that way after 2 years of clearing the abyss with an under leveled account. I like the current difficulty (2y Welkin only player). It makes you want to build different characters that fit certain archetypes and shows you what elements/characters are missing in your account, taking into account that now enemies are using elemental reactions on you and aim CC you. If you don't want to put the effort, then that's your decision and it's respectable too because Genshin is a PVE game after all. Being able to clear the abyss 2-3 months after starting an account IMP only hurts the longevity of the game because there's nothing else to aspire to after that. Of course, I respect and understand different the points of view, specially the casual players that want to clear but cannot because of the difficulty level.
I also think players shouldn’t care about clearing abyss, but you know who does care about people wanting to clear no matter the cost? Hoyoverse/Mihoyo Like any gacha game, Hoyo utilizes FOMO to get people to spend money on the game, and the abyss is one good example of this as they design the floors to sell characters and weapons. Wanting greater difficulty and thinking people should see the abyss as an opportunity to improve your account can easily translate to giving in to the predatory nature of the game, even if one can’t afford to, cause that does easily happen when gacha games constantly sells you a solution. But I guess people that whine about lack of difficulty in Genshin are willing to support predatory practices since their enjoyment of the game is the only thing that matters.
Ngl, I'd rather hear someone say "git gud" because hearing someone say "skill issue", most of the time the people that say that have c6 r5 characters. What? so its a skill issue that I'm not a whale in this game?
You know, I am very torn on how I feel about this abyss. Have been playing since 1.5 and getting consistent 36 stars for the longest time. Been struggling on this one for a long time now. While I do agree that a challenging abyss is a good thing, this shit just isn't fun. Hoyoverse has this warped understanding of difficulty being inversely proportional to fun which shouldn't even be the case. The design of the frost heralds, consecrated beasts and others is beyond irritating and just eats at any enjoyment you can get from this game. In the end, the devs will just be smirking and saying like "this is what you asked for" no b*tch it definitely isn't! This isn't meaningful endgame! Sorry about the rant but this is truly beyond frustrating.
If abyss is too easy people wont be motivated to build more characters and play more in order to beat floor 12. If it was too easy then there wouldnt be much reason to spend much time on the game other than when a new event/quest or update is released.
If it's too hard I'm not motivated either because what's the point? Of years of building characters and grinding artifacts and even dumping some moderate amount of money and then getting abbyss like this and not being able to clear it?? You don't need to even touch gacha to sweep the overworld so yeah, it's very demotivating
@@Szczurzyslawa If you spent years building your characters then you should be able to 36 star it unless you you did silly things like make a hyper carry Amber and did not think about meta comps. I mean I only ever spent about $80 on this game and I was able to clear it with many different teams. You should have characters like Xingqiu, Bennett, and Xiangling all built right? Add that to Nahida and it makes the bottom floor super easy. Top floor can be beaten but whatever meta team you want like aggravate, spread, freeze, taser, mono geo, etc.
@@AzureDrag0n1 Personally I've been playing for "only" a year but I still do not have Xingqiu and building Xiangling seems impossible because half a year of grinding emblem domain didn't drop me a single ER sands. But my gf has been playing since Xiao release, she has all the meta units besides Nahida (bad luck), all well built doing chonky damage and she still cannot 36*
@@Szczurzyslawa Why did you not buy Xingqiu in the shop? It should be an auto buy every time he shows up and he shows up 2x a year. I am trying to think what could have been worth picking up the past year over the 2 Nahida banners and I can not think of anything. Probably only Yelan and her banner had Xingqiu and Beidou while the earlier Nahida banner had Bennett. The other Nahida banner had Kuki.
@@AzureDrag0n1 Because when you start a new game 1. you don't know which units are strong/broken 2. you don't know that you even have to bother with buying 4* from the shop because you're used to them dropping like crazy in other gachas (while in genshin getting specific 4* is hell) 3. you don't have enough glitter for quite some time and you might just miss the window when he's available I also just don't like his personality so that's on me, but legitimately I've never had glitter on me when he was in the shop anyway. Only unit I ever did have enough for was Beidou whom I got via shop to C2 when I was more concious of the game mechanics so I could help her with AoE dmg. When I started playing I tried to get Kazuha but 80 pity was not enough, then I threw literally 1 wish for Venti and he came home. Later I got indeed Nahida, Yae, Nilou, and lucky early 50-50 win for Yoimiya. Also A LOT of people do not think of banners who is "worth" picking up, they go for their beloved faves, especially in first half year of playing from what I've seen.
Example would be like this, I played during launch and it took awhile for me to clear a 36 star, the best part about it is I didn't practice it at all and just cleared it in one swoop because I ignored floor 12, then eventually tried as I obtain the chars I wanted, but ever since 2.0 later somethin, I gave up I didn't have the patience, cause it kept power creeping the chars I wanted, and prevents my favorite ones not do it well, specifically Eula and C6noelle, yeah Eula can clear it, but not as comfortable as the other 5 star unit, and it didn't really click on me cause I actually play games that have different "hardmode" in mind, it was Tera online, tho haven't cleared all of the HM dg, but I never tried more than 3 tries on the abyss, while on Tera we would spend more than half a day learning one dg, the reason is it had its actual purpose for grind unlike genshin you are rewarded one with incomplete pull for the last floor every 4weeks? while in tera its daily thing for mmorpg, but the most important part is you can tell what hard mode difference really is than normal, in genshin the way they made it hard is by either increasing enemy counts, spreading them far apart or just slap a riduculus amount of hp, Tera hard mode vs normal meant there will be a lot of changes to attack pattern and strategy because bosses gain new kinds of attack, one dungeon that I really like was called grotto of lost souls, in normal mode there are no oneshots, while in hardmode almost every special attack/skill or mech will delete you, but thats not all, the bosses tend to gain 3 or more new attack that you have to learn on hardmode, some even wipes the entire team as punishment for one player dying or make it harder for the team to complete a mech or the dg itself due do dps check, which what I was hoping for in genshin when they first introduced hypostasis symphony, yes both different game, but same concept for endgame content, yeah tera is dead but that game is 10 yrs old, my point is I never really like the idea of just buffing hp and multiplying them to make it hard, hypostasis and other similar event should have been the abyss way of doing hard modes, not putting dozens of hilichauls like they are from a different continent, tera has dps checks too, not just mashing things and avoiding shit, you actually need to learn at most 10 skill rotations average per character to do minimum damage required or more, as for power creeping I get that they had to do some of them or they won't sell, but the difference in abyss right now is just way off than what it was for the same amount of reward.
Spiral abyss simply gets harder so it could make you feel that you need new units asap so you could spend money on pulls. This is a gatcha game, Which is the greediest form of game and most of all, Is a business designed to extract as much money as possible from you.
The problem with the abyss is not the enemy difficulty but in many cases enemies that makes you waste your time having extremely little margins for making damage and when the enemy is not wasting your time they become a sponge damage that makes an insane damage even one shotting your team and in case you want to improve your damage you need better artifacts or worse, constellations. People that say "BuT YoU cAn UsE 4 StArS" let me tell you, even for some of those 4 stars in order to get the best result you need a specific weapon that is locked behind a paywall or hours of infinite grinding if not a timed weapon that ran during a limited time event (I'm looking at you, Festering Desire)
The thing with new Abyss its not fun or engaging or challenging anymore. It's just pure frustration. At first i was very excited for new abyss to test my characters limits. But not this time. I just don't thing its worth my time. Everything about this Abyss is pure rng and dmg sponge with stalling mechanics Which makes me question. Should i even bother with meta ? Why bother getting weapons or meta characters if Abyss is nothing but rng fueled frustration?
The biggest issue with the new mob design is their attacks don’t have icd on the damage instances and their incompetent hitbox design. If you dash the rolling attack of the crocodile, your model is still physically getting dragged with it even though youre invulnerable for a few frames, but you will still end up dying as soon as the s end. 2-3 second windows of attacks that tick every split second when your dodge window is half a second is retarded design.
I don't try for abyss tbh. I just get the stars up to floor 11 and just try floor 12. My acc is very good, most my characters have above average builds but i totally skipped sumeru characters so everything that is obviously made to be defeated by dendro is really hard for my teams. Also the whole enemies being immune for most of the fight while on a timer challenge is so absurd i stopped trying
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The people that say “you don’t need sheilders and healers just dodge” truly believe that people who use them have no skill. Problem is, as you’ve stated it, genshin isn’t even that much about skill , most of the combat is team building, knowledge and rng so I don’t agree with them they’re just going to end up playing reset impact
These are the people that reset 100 times because they decided not to play healer or shields
@@_butter.cup_ it depends on every player account, a whale with C6R5 can do it solo without taking any damage, though i have no idea how many runs he did that, as for the rest of us mortals healer and shielder is very welcome
@@pepperpig649 I used to talk to someone who was convinced of this mindset. The kicker was that they could never get more than 33 stars
I'm one of those believing in dodging, but this still doesn't apply to every piece of content. For bossfights with predictable attack patterns you can comfortably get away with just dodging, but the bullshit onslaughts of heralds and those rngbeasts with poorly telegraphed attacks and bus-sized collision boxes are nowhere easy to "just dodge" even for skilled players. Only sith deal in absolutes
@@_butter.cup_ Its not necessary and I do 36* without a dedicated healer / shielder but I would never recommend. Going for kokomi and Zhongli when they come around
Those "just dodge" arguments tend to forget that you have to see the moves to be able to dodge.
The fight with those brick beasts you don't only just fight them but struggle with the camera as well. They keep pushing you to the wall so the wall camera is right inside your organ. And when you roll the camera to the other side, it's blocked by those animals' big body that love to jump around randomly. Even when you have i-frame using burst they can still push you.
And also, when you're squeezed tight into the wall, you can't switch to taller characters cause your head is considered to be stuck in the wall for some reason
Louder for the people in the back
@@xLuis89x What do you mean?
@@qpht7409 They just meant they agreed with you and the 'people at the back' are those who don't understand the things he pointed out.
@@MARLONCABRERA-StudentMode Thanks for clarifying. I didn't know the term. I'm not English speaker
I completed this abyss with ease, Used the same character as I always do ,some team involving- raiden and melt ganyu, then I tried the run in my friend's account as he requested, it was hell ,literally impossible to complete the first part without kazuha, and for the second part its so much hard to do it without zhongli , took me like 1+ hour to complete this floor, there is no way to dodge and the number of combos those mofos hit is annoying af and the stamina draining part in the first floor omfg, fyi he had c3 r1 raiden and a well build account and yet I struggled, impossible for a casual f2p to complete this
The issue in the abyss is that the difficulty doesn't measure your skills as a player (dodging, aiming, stacking combos) . Rather it challenges you to complete the challenge in an absurdly short time with the nuances of enemies hiding/invulnerability, which is way too random at times, having thick shields with only one counter, etc and only measures the numbers in your characters.
There idea of hard is having a lot of hp or specific elements to gatekeep powerful build units. Respectfully, likes who builds Thoma? But, he is required to clear last floor effectively.
@@hesuperpro6732 did use him once previous cycle but hes not required. Aginst the lectors and the thunder bird, sunfire hutao with xiangling worked just fine. Actulally, it was better than the Thoma team. The only issue being yiu have to restart the entire thing to rebuild for ch3.
@@hesuperpro6732I main Thoma for a Burgeon team, and even then I could completely floor 12 without getting frozen every two seconds. And as a Thoma main, I am offended.
Don't forget the stupid freeze res, element res on the enemies
just the nature of gachas, only a handful are skill base. vast majority are rng + grind base progression to increase player retention and encourage buying microtransactions.
I definitely think that Hoyo is trying to keep the whales spending money on the game. If the Abyss gets too easy for a C5 Raiden main they're not gonna buy the primos for a C6.
who tf stopped at C5 of all constellations
@@aiezar that was just an “example”. If you don’t know what an example means then walk away. Don’t insult someone
I love the two reply under this commenf
@@Someone-zn4dh ong lmao.
Imagine going higher than C3 Raiden
There is also a huge problem with this Abyss. Its the fact that a lot of enemies have shields that can be broken by certain elements (some faster, while others slower). The issue with it lies on what characters a player has. Everyone has a different experience in playing Genshin. Some have good units, some have not. Others have the right units to play against these, while other don’t have such. Some have extremely good build (like artifacts and weapons), some don’t have.
Thats true because it's so painful to level a large roster off caratter i bet only a thiny Minority of players can clear abyss. Like i can clear it whit 0 star and it takes me an hour off attempt while i saw people on stream getting perfect clears at first attempt's
You literally listed all the meta character, if you a try hard meta player and don't pull for those chara. Its your fault
@@harfi212 Could it be my fault? Likely. What about everyone else who have pulled characters they liked and are strong in their own right, but cannot use them because the Abyss restricts them from using those characters? Is it also their fault? No. The problem that I listed isn’t about me specifically.
@@harfi212 the problem is that floor 12 of the abyss should not be only accessible to the tryhard meta players. you should not need all those characters this person listed just to clear floor 12. That is absurd.
They should add floor 13+ or other content for those. They're making floor 12 feel like a floor 15 which only pleases a super small minority of players, while locking many others out of what used to be reasonable. The requirements for clearing it in time played, characters built, etc, is only rising. And faster than many players can keep up with.
@@harfi212 It's a gacha game - luck is a giant factor in whether or not folks got the right characters.
Oh man, I remember clearing floor 12 for 0 stars once in my life just for the achievement. To be fair, I barely had 2 functioning teams at the time but I feel like I'd have an even worse time if I tried it now, even though I've much better built units. Which is why I'm kind of frustrated there isn't a middle ground somewhere. Floor 12 is a headache but overworld enemies die in one shot.
I feel like people also forget that not everyone's been playing for over a year either. I started a couple months ago and just now actually started to be able to put together some teams with really good synergy with good artifacts. If the teams that I've spent a bunch of time building just plain won't work in the abyss because the boss shields don't take damage from my main damage element, then I'm screwed unless I build up certain other characters, which is annoying considering how much investment you need to put into a single character just to get them up to par with the upper floors of the abyss.
I get that Spiral Abyss is "Endgame content" but it's honestly seeming more like a "Build this team comp or you're screwed" kind of place.
indeed. The harder abyss content should have been more floors without primos. Everyone would be happy. Tryharders can try hard, whales can whale, casuals can casual and casuals who have played a reasonable amount of time and built up a decent collection can take their extra primos from floor 12 without slamming their heads against the wall for 5 hours+.
Even me as someone who has played since launch, semi-casually, struggles to complete it with 36 stars simply because none of my 3 best teams work well against the lector shields. You're not just punished for not having built enough characters, you are punished for not having built THE RIGHT characters. This is very much against how genshin markets itself.
I refuse to build bennett as its just not a fun character to me, but meanwhile he is almost mandatory. Just an example.
The thing is, they are cranking up the floor 12 difficutly more and more so that now it feels like a floor 14 or 15 compared to how it was before. They should just add more floors instead. They lock primos out of reach for a huge amount of players. And the requirements are ridiculous; playing a game for a year and not being able to clear this kind of thing is a joke of a design.
And players going on about AI manipulation and other "totally obvious gane knowledge things you should know that is being tested here" don't realize that the game teaches you this nowhere but is then punishing players for not only not having built enough/specific characters even after a longer time of playing, but also for things they never teach. It is horrible design^2.
The tryhards should have their fun, sure, but meanwhile the fun (and reasonableness) is being sucked out for everyone else. More floors or actual meaningful end-game content are the only solutions here to keep more players happy. Can never please everyone, but they are going in a dangerous and frankly absurd direction.
The problem with abyss nowadays is just about the proper character to use, elements plus investment you put into your team. Good example is floor 12-1-2, you gotta bring cryo, dendro, and pyro at the same team, which makes your team synergies decrease by alot because not everyone has every character build up
As a Dark Souls enthusiast and a F2P AR 60 Genshin player, I can confidently say that there are some moments in abyss that are harder than anything you’ll find in Dark Souls.
But that’s because Genshin doesn’t do difficulty fairly or fun like Dark Souls does. Genshin wants you to whale.
Cuz genshin isn't skill based, like Dark Souls.
You can beat any DS at SL1, but you won't be beating abyss with lvl 1 teams.
It's designed to make you spend money with characters and weapons
To be fair, take dark souls and make it so that you only have 90 seconds to beat a boss, and now all bosses have elden ring levels of aggression so they never stop attacking and dont give any room to counter attack and then youll have genshin's current design for the enemies in the abyss
Genshin is not a skill check, is more of a knowledge and luck check, where the luck part makes the biggest impact (because artifacts and constellations) but it becomes less of an issue the more you spend on characters/weapons
@@chrismonge3215 the more you spend on *the correct* characters.
I have played since the beginning, most of my resources have gone into cryo, electro and hydro characetrs because I like them so much. I dont play dudes either (and even if I did bennett would be bottom of my list tbh), so while I have very nice investment in like 3 teams, all of them are hard-stopped in just that one room.
Luckily, while figuring out a working composition with what I had built for the baptist (and keeping them alive long enough to get there) was a challenge, it was reasonable and I cleared that. But the lectors in 12-1-2 are just way too specific and unforgiving and your damage matters nothing once the shields come out (but before that it does, of course. I tried 2 of my pyro chars but the damage didnt cut it to get to the shields part fast enough).
I cleared it with 36 stars once with luck and the cycle after I couldnt do it. But I spend about 6 hours resetting in the first cycle and 5 in the second.
Even if youve played long and invested a lot, if its not in the *correct* characters, you are still screwed. It did not used to be this way. They make floor 12 feel like floor 15. They should have added more floors with less meaningful rewards than primogems, then those who want to test their accounts can happily do so. Instead theyre working hard at driving away and locking out lots of players who are new/could have fun here but now dont/used to have fun but now dont.
@@DiaborMagics i agree they could add floors and make them like 10 primogems each that way if it's passed up it doesn't feel like too big of a FOMO trip. Hoyo listened when it came to limited time combat events. they used to put primos on the hardest difficulty and now it's all ore up there with the primos as the easiest reward. Some players still go for max points because it's fun to them. the casuals could just go in there, do 9-12 and skip the 13-15. Abyss is pretty much a flex/leaderboard content anyways and most players don't care for it. They just want the primos. If there isn't primos, casuals prob won't touch it with a ten ft pole.
The healer take was real back in the day. Healers and Shielders were useless, unless if you were dogshit at the game.
But nowadays, the current enemies are massive hitboxes and collision boxes with lingering properties with massive damage. You literally can't dodge everything because of both RNG and bad enemy design.
I miss the old days of no healers in Abyss. Rifthounds were just the first mistake out of many.
Rifthounds are a great enemy on paper, until u fight them and they take knockback strong enough to send them into the Honkai franchise
@@Boricosa them being knockedback is only one of many issues with them, and tbh, their running away is the worst part.
I mean, we still have to worry about humongous hp bars that keep getting bigger and bigger, so healers while useful, still dont help much in doing max stars, hell, a lot of compa still use no healers or even shielders, lmao
@xLuis89x Oh, for sure. Sub DPS are still reigning supreme, but Healing Supports also became viable rn. You just need 1 Healing Support. The last 2 should be Sub-DPS and DMG Buff Support.
Not just them but also dodge has cooldown.
I only wish they add more floors in the abyss or every reset is to floor 1, not up the difficulty, they said it anxiety inducing to add more floor but instead make floors harder while the rewards remain the same. Good job HYV
they literally make their current 'endgame' content anxiety inducing xD great job indeed :P
Are you playing only for the rewards?
@@pontoancora The rewards are one of the motive to progress further and it make the moment more "rewarding" otherwise other game won't make rewards corresponding to the difficulty or effort it took, also if not true then why they bother to give us rewards in the first place? Heh even Honkai impact have ranks abyss which give more rewards the more effort you took and every ranks you move forward are worth and proud since the rewards doesn't necessarily mean primos. As one of the earliest player who play since beta and always 36 stars since the second abyss till now, it doesn't make the moment sound special like other games
@@tatsuyamaimetang7752 to me the real reward are good gameplay. I don't care for primogens, I care for a fun time playing a game.
@@pontoancora Agree to disagree, I agree to that we play games for fun but the fun part isn't the concept in abyss. You can play any other contents and it's can also be more fun than abyss. If it is indeed for fun only it won't even have time restrictions. It's for "Optimizing your characters and team" which it can also be fun to mess around or hell to build and it can't be control as RNG. That why I can't fully agree to that. and as I mentions, The reward doesn't necessary mean Primogems, it can be anything like banners or decorations or even both like the predecessor, Honkai Impact, whose gave both banners or decorations to commemorate the moment you've been through which is super dope and make it special.
Also sorry if I what said sound offensive or stuff, It's been a pleasant conversation so far!
Honestly I kinda wish they had a difficulty setting besides the world lvl, because I love hard games like elden ring and I really love the combat in genshin but the overworld is just disappointing. Its still fun to go around and explore, but it would be more fun if there was something to make it challenging even if it doesn't increase the primo rewards, like botw's master mode for example.
the difficulty level of floor 12 Abyss is what i want in overworld lmao but at least the less annoying ones
i also wish they add more mechanics that you have to use in combat besides switching characters and casting E Q or normal attack so that the combat gets slightly
more complex
@@jacklast no. Just no.
How the heck am i supposed to kill an oceanid with 70 lvl characters.
@@Lovelyyetlonely thats why they suggested it being a setting😅
Nah overworld don't need to be challenge. Abyss need to.
@@pontoancora for you yeah, but other people want an actually challenging game yk. I find it boring when I can kill every single overworld mob in half a second.
As a Honkai 3rd vet, this isn't new as it's similarly named mode tends to favor specific teams each "cycle", though it has an additional "dynamic difficulty" to it (it's not unusual to do great with a strong team only to get an amped up cycle that needs your weakest team)
It also brings to mind the arena, which has a similar insistence at the high end.
GI's abyss going a similar way wouldn't be surprising.
But the difficulty "increasing engagement" is plausible as among other things it's in part to keep the highest end players occupied so they don't jump over to another game out of boredom. I've seen MMOs do similar things at the end of a patch cycle.
There are no artifacts on honkai, and skill matters a lot more over there, since you actually have to dodge and the enemies have actual mechanics, not just high hp + time wasting "mechanics" like burrowing nonstop while becoming immune to cc and damage
@@xLuis89xskill issue
The difference is that there's no stamina bar in Honkai. You're not artificially forced to tank hits or waste time walking, and Honkai's skill is largely how well you can execute your rotations with precise timing. You're also not facing getting stunlocked/one-shotted like in Genshin since the game actually balances around not having a healer or shielder, and most superstring floors don't have overly precise requirements like this current abyss. Do they exist? Yes, but usually it's not as big of an issue as it typically has several requirements, and partially meeting them will usually result in you at least not loosing your score and lowering your rewards up until Nirvana, and no one advices based on Nirvana, because that's the skilled+gigawhale difficulty that barely rewards you more than red lotus.
edit: Also, superstring is structured differently from the abyss. You're not clearing everything at once. You select the boss directly once it's unlocked. Also, even when you hit a wall, you're wasting, at most, 3 days. For some godforsaken reason Hoyoverse decided that having one enemy lineup for a month and a half at a time is just fine in genshin, so that increases frustration in enemies with specific requirements.
@@pontoancora amazing rebuttal, you enlightened me
one way to kinda put a band-aid on the issue is just to make a floor 13, I think. They can keep the absurd difficulty, but also maintain a middle ground. They do this for some combat-oriented events where to get full scores/reward, you really need to be incredibly good at the game and are willing to spend. I don't see why they can't implement this same principle to the Abyss.
I fully agree with this solution
Because it's not fair to create something solely for people who spend a lot. While creating a game with a fan base you need to think about EVERYONE, not just a few people who do extra stuff not required (spending money) because they make the abyss annoying but manageable with 4* teams, the abyss is end game content and is technically not something one needs to do at all costs, if they ever do a new abyss floor it will surely be because of the lore and they will keep it "balanced" for everyone.
That's floor 12
If the abyss is too annoying I will just quit
I don't restart, if I die easily I quit 😂 I can full stars the abyss before tho but not in the recent ones with too many annoying enemies
@@palmsaysstuffwdym for people that spend a lot? Even f2ps that have been playing for months to over a year could 36* the abyss up until the recent BS enemies
A new floor honestly would benefit everyone, including f2p newer players, because then the jump from floor 11 to 12 wouldnt be so extreme. From floor 11 to 12 basically youre going from max world level to absurdity, for an example Wenut with 600k hp (i think i dont recall the exact HP) in the world, while the one on the abyss had 3 million HP, plus 55% damage resistance that could only be lowered to 30% for less than 10 seconds, basically you had 10 seconds (up to 20 seconds if you had enough time to do 2 rotations) to do 4 million damage
It's crazy! I feel bad for all the new players that reach this height, because I remember when Abyss was good and I wasn't anywhere near floor 12. Now that I am, I can't even 3 star one chamber due to the new mob upgrade. Especially with characters at lvl 90.
If they are new players the abyss isn't for them yet. Once they get mote knowledge in the game the abyss will definitely be on their reach
@@isaacarmendes3031 I agree and disagree because the level at which we were competing in the abyss at the beginning is much different than what we are competing at now. Due to that, the power scaling has changed with the plethora of characters we are pulling for. In that aspect, there is a power difference that many older players in the abyss can see compared to now. But I get what you're saying.
@@1AnimegirlLoverI'm happy that the Abyss is harder now
I'm not a new player but I never got 36 stars. I wanted to try it now see what the fuss was about and so far I got to the last chamber but sadly it's too tight of a DPS check.
@@pontoancora And that's not a bad thing. The abyss should increase in difficulty, but in what department of difficulty is the concern here. If all it is is more HP and buffs against certain elements then I can't agree with the methods. I would love different aspects added to abyss, aiding the fights we already have.
I think the whole "you don't need healers/shielders" and "shielders/healers are a waste in your team" was commonly said in the older abysses -- which I can agree to since they were much easier than the today's abyss. Rarely did I worry about dying back then -- I was more worried about clearing the floor in time. But enemies now, like the consecrated beasts, are thick as hell and do hella more damage so bringing a shielder/healer is definitely useful. I haven't really seen anyone say shielders/healers are a waste for this abyss cycle
People are confusing "Hard" with "annoying", just look at Magu Kenki versus the WolfLord, Magu Kenki is hard, the WolfLord is super annoying. Why? Because of player control.
Magu Kenki is a test of reflexes and timing, although it can dash away from the player, the pattern from this dash is predictable and you can account this in your strategy, he does a lot of damage, but that damage is in easily identifiable bursts that you can dodge if you have good enough reflexes... Magu Kenki is good, specially the version where there's the anemo and cryo versión and you have to fight all three, that's hard... THAT'S GOOD.
The Wolford isnt hard, it's just badly designed, his damage Windows are short, there's now way to dodge or even shield his damage, so there's restrictions as to the team you have to build. His invulnerable half of the fight.... And much, much more... The WolfLord isn't hard... IT'S ANNOYING.
With that being said, the reason this abyss has made so many people angry to the point of literally quitting (Myself including) is that for the first time, hoyoverse has made something that is not only annoying, but it's also hard, which is just stupid.
Now you have people at ar 60, with multiple 5 star, who only form of content is the spiral abyss reset every 15 days, who literally don't care about any new 5 star or event because our account is already cracked... And you give us the worst abyss yet?!?
Don't get this wrong, this abyss isn't for the whales, or the casuals, this abyss is for no-one... And it made me realize the sad truth that genshin is never gonna be as good as I want it to be... Which is why I'm quitting until Fontaine comes out....
It's just not worth it man...
maguu kenki isn't hard, it just takes 50 years to become vulnerable
@@icekiller1594still better than corrosion puppies
This Abyss 12-3-1 is literally a one hit KO floor, I just give up on it.
Not at all.
Not at all bruh
To me the 3 Herald were like that it was a nightmare XD lucky i did it just to find my self blocked at the last chamber j didn't knew about the last boss so i bringed my monopyro diluc team XD
Probably to late to give this advice. For 12-1-2, I used Hutao/Xiangling/Ganyu/Zhongli and consistently cleared it in time. Use Ganyu burst to keep the hydro mage and herald frozen, and use her E to CC. The dmg check is not very high, so Hutao/Xiangling can easily deal enough dmg. Melting the shield with those 2 is also easy as well.
@@supachaitengtakul5183 oh, did you? did you use 3 five star units to clear content that was clearable with 4 stars a year ago?
Whats your refinement rank of staff of homa?
Yeh it's true that i got frustrated by this Abyss but it actually forced me to use a different team comp than my usual 2 to 3 teams. I fully believe a f2p player can beat this abyss of they have been playing for atleast 1 and a half year. So the feeling after beating is is pretty rewarding tho. I found a new team. And i actually like the combat in genshin anyway so it's ok according to me if they keep the difficulty at this level. Although i know a patch will inevitably come where i won't be able to clear the abyss and then maybe I'll understand the masses. For now I'm doing just fine.
Literally me. Well said man
Honestly the amount of stress this abyss brought me, feels not even worth it atp.
@@Destiny_sm ya it's really not worth it. Only go for it if you think you can beat it. If you are struggling with like 2 min off the timer don't do it for 50 primos.
I've been playing for a year so we'll see in half a year if I can 36* abbyss for a first time 🤣I doubt it cuz it seems like they will just keep cranking the abbyss up and up (and I'm not even fully f2p since welkin and bp, but it's still, abbyss seems impossible)
@@Szczurzyslawa good Luck 🤞
One thing I'd like to say on my behalf. I honestly think the Baptist is a good one, because he may have shields, but he stays in one place, correct element destroys shields like a bubble and his health bar is laughably small.
All the other heralds or lectors have overinflated hp and their shields do not really care that much about your element, as long as it's not the same.
You should either have to have a team with good dps or a bit weaker team, that counters certain mechanics/elements.
I think they just need to introduce further floors of the abyss and destitute the difficulty jumps more evenly.
no need for more floors, if they gonna add a content ,add an endgame
It's definitely the toughest abyss, I basically just barely make the 3star threshold with c0 5 stars and mostly 4 star weps.
Big shout-out to ayaka this abyss too, melt ayaka stonks on the rise
Ayaka good this abyss? All the cryo shields had me consciously choose to not use her. again. Even though shes my favorite character hands down. Though, I have never used melt ayaka before and pyro is my worst built element to begin with (and I dont use dudes, so no bennett)
@DiaborMagics first half is great with ayaka freeze team
@@pontoancoradamage doko?
And don't tell me you use kazuha, lmfao
@@xLuis89x yes I use Kazuha with my ayaka team, like most players. You can go with other teams that don't have kazuha. I passed with one team using venti for example.
if you dodge TOO much and don't hit the enemies enough , its a DPS loss. thats a perfect time to use a shielder or a character with interruption resistance. i dont think people get that if your carry or damage dealers are dying or dodging too much to actually do damage, then they arent doing anything LOL. sometimes bringing a shielder IS the meta option, and i think people forget that meta is an acronym for Most Effective Tactic Available. if not dodging consecrated beasts and whaling on them is more effective, bring a shielder
This. So many people forget about that. I was never interested in zhongli bc I never ran my hu tao with a shielded and did fine, but now I’m running her with tankfei and jeez the difference of hu tao with a shield vs none is crazy. It’s so much easier to just do your combos instead of me running around trying to dodge everything, which just ends up with me having to reset because I’m not doing any damage. And dodging wastes time, if you dodge too much you’ll have to reset your rotation and wait for hu tao’s skill CD again. In this abyss however, I literally have to dodge or else I’ll just die. And this is coming from a c1 hu tao haver.
I said this before in another video and I will say it again. This Version of Abyss has been way too specific and strict.
But I will add I am not here to learn Herald, Lectors, Consecrated Beasts Behavior to save some time. I want the Primogems and clearing it as best to my ability. It's good to boast about it, but all I am here for is the Reward and an Hour or so of My Time.
If I had to chase and dance around, deal with double health, Shielded Abyssal Enemies and Beasts two or three times that will dance around and get the perfect Position to get All 9* on Floor Twelve for the next two hours or so just to not get past 3 Minute Mark almost precisely.
*Ohohoho, frick-a-this, hahahahah, wow.* I can get 60 Primos the next day for that. I haven't spend top-up and Welkin for this game, never will. I have 36* the previous Abyss before, not all of them, but this Version of Abyss is very Specific, nothing more and nothing less on my end.
I agree, they're just making it more and more annoying, time-wasting and squeeze all the fun out of it. It's just no longer fun.
It's still possible to clear if you reset enough, minmax enough and pray for RNG to bless you after the 5th, 10th, or whatever, 20th reset if you're unlucky or a bit less skilled/blessed with characters or artifacts.
It's still possible but... what little fun it had left has been squeezed out imo.
They should either stop with at least half the time wasting (stuns, ragdolling, freezing, waves, spacing enemies out far apart, etc), or bump the time limit to 5 minutes like other floors, or maybe 4.
It now boils down to investment and luck... and patience. Reset, reset, reset, reset, reset...... reset... isn't fun.
The fact that enemies need to align properly, your attacks don't miss because of teleports, burrowing and whatnot and that you dont get frozen because you just dodged and cant dodge again right away just makes it a reset check that is for a large part out of your hands. It's terribly designed and the opposite of fun :/
EDIT: I'm like you mostly in it for the primos, though there used to be some fun to be had. And there still is in some f12 cycles and at least floor 11 and below. Another thing they could do is wind back floor 12 a more reasonable difficulty (make it less annoying) and add a 13th bonus floor that give you maybe some mora and exp books, but no primos. And make that the super annoying one. Then at least the seemingly few who like how it is can enjoy that and no one has to feel in any way pressured to reset for hours to get the primos (just letting them go if you miss 1 or 2 stars is hard for some)... the funny thing is they dont want to add more end-game content because they dont want to create anxiety in their players but thats exactly what theyre doing for droves of abyss players who are just starting to turn away from it more and more now. Not to mention new players who cant even clear it after more than a year of playing, which is crazy.
@@DiaborMagics Disagree. The harder, the funnier
@@pontoancora I partialy agree. They should make floor 13 and rewards should be talents and mora and books. Then it could be at this level. They should also fckng cahnge that If I beat floor 11 or 12 I get reward for floors 9 and 10.
@@pontoancora It's fine to disagree, to each their own. I think they make it super annoying, you think it's funny.
What IS funny is how everyone experiences it differently :P
Or maybe adopt the previous event mechanics.
Earn x points to gain 3 stars
Its up to you what and how difficult it will be by configuring hp, time limit, resistances, add on powers etc.
Current power ups on your chars is minimal to non existing (only crit rate/dmg are what i can call buff as of the moment)
I am a light spender and only started optimizing my builds (not necessarily rotations) recently despite having played casually since launch. I have many characters and a handful of 5 star weapons. I don't use any guy characters because I don't want to - so bennett, hydroboi, zhongli and kazuha are out. Some of the characters I see most recommended (just use kazuha! people will say, like everyone has him, etc. )
Previous abyss was super annoying but I felt a great sense of satisfaction when I finally got the 36 stars. Normally I would just take my 30-33 and leave. It play the game to have fun. the abyss becomes more and more annoying - and I did not want to deal with that. Until I got bored and was like: I want to make the characters I love good.
The previous abyss was a lot more nightmarish than if you look a year back, or more, back then I would 'accidentally' 36 star the abyss sometimes without meaning to. Or, get 33 stars and feel like 36 stars would be easy enough in an extra attempt or 2.
The current abyss cycle??? Oh my god, it's so incredibly annoying, I can't see how anyone finds it fun - I'm sure some do, I just can't see it.
I did manage to 36 star it, but it took me trying different compositions and resetting and stuff for hours on end. My favorite characters that are the best built don't work nearly as well in this one most of the time, the whole reason for me to even attempt the abyss is to use them in a more difficult setting - ok and I want the primogems now that I know I can do it.... most of the time. This cycle had me almost throw in the towel. Ayaka, Keqing, Mona, Nilou are my favorite characters. The many cryo shields shut down the freeze and niloubloom teams, it expects you to use pyro (and according to some, anemo, though I couldnt for the life of me make the swirls with jean and sucrose work) and those are my 2 worst built elements hands down. I almost never use anemo and pyro because most of the characters or playstyles interest me less.
I had to carefully plan different teams to clear chamber 3, then chamber 2, then chamber 1 with 3 stars. And to get to chamber 3 with a sup-optimal team for chamber 1, I had to survive - this meant resetting a billion times. Stun, freeze, multiple attacks, dead. Again. Again. Again. Again. I found myself frozen and/or stunned for multiple seconds sometimes, enough for HP to go from 100% to 0% on most characters, heck even kokomi died TWICE and she has over 40k HP.
Indeed, they make the abyss more annoying, more time-wastey, more damage spongey, add more waves, put them farther apart, etc. I can't see how a full free to play semi-casual player could do this without god roll artifacts, a lot more knowledge of the game than me despite being so casual, godlike skills (which can still be bypassed by ways you explained in the video, I mean, you cant forever) and the best RNG during his abyss run, or a billion resets.
I actually had fun last cycle once I found my zone and got 36 stars, because I did it twice then and it was just fun.
The current abyss cycle is just no fun at all. I got 36 stars, but I'm not happy, I'm just annoyed at what it took to get there. Just for some 50 primos and not even being able to use most of my favorite characters.
I totally get they will make you use different teams. I have 3 completely different super strong (to me) teams with some characters I can swap in and out of them even, when I need to. And then I also have a slew of characters that are decent and can probably work with a bit more investment. And I don't think my Yanfei and Xiangling are horrible, but their DPS definitely was lacking compared to what was required to bring HP down fast enough to leave time for the slow-as-sh*t shield breaking they also have to do, all while dodging, iframing, trying not to die.
Laylas and Kiraras shield both are pretty good, but they do break here. And in a lot of cases, characters get oneshot. I may escape a frozen state or stunlock, or get back up on my feet after having been flung across the room, only to switch to a character with more hp that gets killed instantly.
The same cycle has started again and I got 2-2-3 stars in my first full run, but it took me about 20-30 resets to even arrive in chamber 3 with everyone I needed against the babtist still alive. The baptist isn't that hard, if you have the proper setup, but that requires a pretty wide array of characters AND you need to get to him without any dying.
Room 2 will be okay I think, It was last time. But the 1st one with the 3 heralds is an absolute NIGHTMARE. And I just don't know if I can be assed to reset another million times to get it done. It's not worth it for the fun factor because it's no fun, it's not worth it for the 50 primos, because that's pocket change compared to how difficult it is and its not even 1/3rd of a pull and its also not worth it to test my favorites characters with - because most just don't work for it.
Sorry for the essay, but yeah, that is my experience as a light spender who has only recently (say, 2 months or so) started diving into more efficient character building (but I did have some decent builds, chars and weapons already) - though I have seen some people do damage using characters I don't use that gets me drooling, but I won't use what I don't want to use. And I know, that is a restriction places upon myself. But it's still a game we play for fun and the whole point is: I don't think the challenge is fair and fun anymore. I feel like only the more hardcore players, veterans who have played and farmed for longer, or higher spenders can still do it and a lot of them even seem to agree this time that it's just insanely annoying, strict and time wastey.
I am normally good at dodging but in this 3.7 Abyss floor 12 cycle, it's impossible to be able to dodge everything. Since you can only dodge twice in a row and have to wait for internal cooldown to dodge again. And there are 3 Heralds and then 2 Beasts at the same time, it's possible enough to dodge one of them, but you'll be guaranteed to get hit by the 2nd enemy.
Some form of healer or shielder are must have, even with only Xingqiu as defensive support in the team is simply just good enough to help you to survive.
I do think the git gud statement does apply to people with multiple meta five stars not clearing. They do just need to understand builds and team comps better. Nahida for example trivializes floor 2 when paired with suitable four star supports.
As for people without meta five star comfort options? Yea I can see the concern with annoying enemies.
Yeah zhongli = don't worry too much about getting one shot nor about getting pushed around all over the place like a ping pong ball
Kazuha: damage, I see every crit using account using him in the abyss and then say "you don't need as much damage, they are not that tanky 🤓🤓🤓
Nahida: premium dendro character
Kuki? Vital in a lot of electro / dendro EM related teams, me as a day 1 player haven't got a single copy of her
@@xLuis89x rip lol try spending money next time she’s around
Games are made for you to lose stress and anxiety not gain them even more .
If you are a f2p player like me just think that there is no such thing as floor 12 and the Abyss ends at floor 11.
reminds me of enkonomiya. One of the challenges made you fight three of the.... vishaps? and before that i never struggled with any content. Sure, spiral abyss of course. But other open world content was a breeze. This was the first and only time outside the abyss in which i genuinely got shown that I'd need to spec into my ayaka more. And to a further extent some pyro characters to make the strayer domain easier. It wasn't that the wall was hit, it's that it happened without any forewarning. Even bosses i managed just fine for the most part without changing artifacts.
Not to mention that having characters, and having good artifacts, weapons, talent levels, levels and supports are never guaranteed. Which is the biggest harm in being a gacha game. Because you never know what items your players have you either have to make the items near redundant or screw over people who don't have all the good stuff yet.
That Enkonomiya's quest was the most difficult, true, I even had to trick the vishaps to jump off the rock into the "abyss", my team was too underpowered. But there is also another overworld place - the last quest in the Tatara Tales - where I had to co-op and we still had several attempts to clear the two waves of Fatuis and Mirror Maidens. If I had the Hyperbloom team at that time, I would probably had no issues. Same goes for Masanori, I had to invest into my team after meeting him.
True game design is when the game teaches you skills you can polish and master by the end. The game doesnt really teach you i frames nor does it say, have a tell for enemies when theyre going to do something (mostly the annoying ads) like when the whooper flower is going to dive underground, give it a tell so the players can plan around. Punishing the player for random action the enemies do isnt satisfying. When the player gets the aha with mechanics like how in sekiro, every fight you have teaches you skills you use and hone that plays a role when you finally face the end boss. All those experiences come together and improve you. And its within the game. Not something like keqing mains had to dig underground mechanics for. Mihoyo still hasnt learned that entirely. Its cool its trying to force more diverse teams, but the diversity is a small pool of units already used a lot.
I think the worst aspect about genshin is definitely the lack of good in-game tutorials and gameplay explanations. For example, I've had many friends join at many different times and just get so lost in character and game mechanics. Watching prof. Zajeff is not a tutorial, like yeah not all things TC are essential to know but I feel like basic concepts of the game and the mechanics of specific characters should be more obvious for newbs and not require watching hours of youtube or chatting in TC servers. This also is why I'll talk to genshin friends new and old and they'll get blown away by some mechanic they didn't know about. The early game tutorials are really bad imo and after dendro, they should have added more in Sumeru. Its really obvious if your a veteran who makes an alt at some point that even now with a much shorter time to lvl up, the difficulty spikes and the miserably getting my butt kicked early game isn't even difficult with basic game knowledge and its just wild that there not better in game systems to teach players, so theres not lvl 45, or even 50 players esp new ones who lvled up in months not years who have played 100s of hours but got no game knowledge from it and just miserably get kicked around in the OW and early abyss with no clue how farm, build, or put teams together. Let alone get how reactions work or mechanical stuff or nuances of specific characters. On top of the fact new players/accounts *do* have it harder with less resources they also have no tutorial to learn what took us years. Doesn't help that a lot of people go in thinking it a waifu sim and then get upset cause they thought they could throw literally anything together and clear even with low investment and skill (actual ppl I know) or that if they are new they can't build every character yet.
This is the first abyss where I have the ability to clear it but I intentionally decide to leave it at 34 stars because I'm not having fun trying to get 36. It's just a big pain.
While I understand the frustrations with increasing mechanical and numerical difficulty with Abyss floor 12 (and it's undeniable that Sumeru rotations have been harder). I think the design problems that are at fault aren't what lies on the surface.
"it feel like it's designed for a specific set of units" - yes, but those units are aggravate/tazer core (Beidou Fischl) and Xiangling core (XL Bennett). 4-stars from 1.0. I can definitely see how players get confused when the developers release SSR after SSR that end up being astonishingly mediocre or even awful in combat, while fairly accessible units continue to dominate. The fact that people continue finding ways to succeed in abyss with those old reliables instead of shiny new 5-stars is a very confusing design for a gacha game and I can totally see unsuspecting players getting baited into going for the wrong thing.
"Overworld is too easy in comparison" - yes, this is true. This is by design. The game's primary appeal, or at least as the devs see it, lies in casual, story, and overworld content. Not a lot of players even engage with Spiral Abyss and the rewards it gives are disproportionately low (compared to endgame modes in many other mobile games) when compared with other content such as events. It's almost as if the developers don't really care if you beat Spiral Abyss or not. It's kind of just there because, well, a gacha game has got to have it.
"Zhongli usage means more than half people aren't very good at the game" - it kind of does though. You'll be surprised but most video game players aren't good at video games, nor do they beat games to 100% completion as a rule. And this is totally okay! That's why there's room to talk about skill expression even in a game as simple as Genshin Impact. This isn't to shame people because it's not like the game tells you that by stacking Xingqiu and Beidou's ultimates you can achieve massive ~70% incoming damage reduction.
And finally to address diving enemies - we've had mechanically challenging abyss rotations before. The very first one back in 1.0 was a nightmare, with freeze effect that drained your stamina, dreaded whopperflowers, as well as Fatui shield check that at the time was actually a challenge not dissimilar to what you have to do today to deal with Baptist or the Lectors. This isn't some kind of new addition that they just cooked up, it's just kind of the same concept scaled up for the times.
Anyway, 3.8 will be easier. If you're not having fun, just skip a rotation, there's no shame in that and 120 gems definitely aren't worth the sweat and tears if you're not having fun.
Most reasonable take I've seen all day.
*150 primos. But nope, still not a good abyss in any way whatsoever. No one should have to restart 20 times, and change teams for every specific floors every time, just to get all 36 stars.
@@Sergmanny46 Depends on which teams you're using.
I ran Sucrose driving Aggravate Beidou-Fischl with Millellith Yaoyao on the first half and Nahida driving Burgeon Thoma feat. Bennett on the second side.
I only reset 12-3-1 twice because the second Hydro reptile kept 2-shotting my Fischl with its ranged slashes the moment it spawned, but after adjusting my strategy (a.k.a. holding Beidou's skill instead of using Fischl's burst to apply Electro to the second wave), I had no need for further resets or team change on my first clear.
I agree with most of this. I dislike fighting the whopper flowers because they burrow a lot and the consecrated beasts because they move a lot and move you a lot but I have to disagree with the herald/lector type enemies. They do reward team building, rotations and timing a lot.
Tbh this specific point, at least in part, is probably a matter of people's attachments to their favourite characters. While it is a shame you can't use someone like Itto or Eula very well against these enemies, a lot of people like myself don't mind using other characters, it's part of the fun for me. For new players, it can be pretty rough as their roster isn't versatile enough but I wouldn't call this a negative thing.
just use a freeze team for first half
@@KurokishiYT Yes that is a team I tried, and it worked. I still dislike fighting whopper flowers and consecrated beasts.
You can use itto or eula on first side
@@pontoancoraeula against those whopperflowers and against those machines that become untargettable all the time? Also they are pretty far apart most of the time as well
@@xLuis89x just learn how to manipulate them to go to the same point. People do that since the first abyss.
My first 36 stars were in patch 1.1 and I can say that abyss is just abysmal ( :) ) for me nowadays. I have long ago decided to stick with 30-33 stars and it has saved me a lot of nerves
This abyss isnt a dps check. Its a character check. You have this character? You win. You dont? You lose
Element* check
@@lavion8090 nope you're wrong. Try to beat this with only dendro traveler as you dendro unit cuz thats my only built dendro unit. I dont have any 5 star dendros. Its impossible. I can ALWAYS 36* but now i cant
@@luukthegamer if you're talking about the hydro herald, it's apparently better to use cryo against it if you don't have Nahida
@@tokanada so something like ganyu melt?
@@luukthegamermore like kaeya&rosaria with benny and xl, I don't know if you'd be able to aim THAT much
Another problem with the abyss is the rewards. The levels gets harder and harder each time it updates but the reward is still 150 primos (not even one pull). You have to three star the round or else you’re getting less than that. Wasting all that time and energy for minimal rewards feels unaccomplished and tiring
I love this current abyys. But tbh this abyys difficulty is another level. Should be floor 13 at this point.
this is in my top 3 most favorite abyss cycles ever
1. the abyss national team (hydro herald, cryo and electro lectors cycle)
2. the 12-3 20 rifthounds cycle
3. this abyss freeze team cycle
I will always prefer this abyss cycle over the Ruin Serpent, Golden Wolflord, and the Setekh Wenut, ALL DAY EVERYDAY.
The consecrated beasts are the most well designed Sumeru enemies since, guess what, they actually do DMG and have sick movesets, instead of the Jadeplume Terrorshroom who just flails and collapses after getting hit by electro, the ASIMON matrix who is an invisible tsundere who does no DMG, and the Setekh Wenut who is the ultimate tsundere buffed with 40% elemental resistance in the abyss. 😂
Wow so you like it when you spent months maybe years building your characters and making that work useless? And you like not doing anything but spam the space bar?
Rifthound i can agree tho just use a healer and you're good
Agree with you right there. I prefer these kinds of abyss where I get raged everytime i got one hit ko'd. This is challenging
I agree here too. It feels closer to that time I first 36 starred, try harding for 6 months, learning strats, builds, gimmicks (tf Bennett). A year in and it became just a thing to do for primos and mats.
This was very fulfilling and forced me to think, use different team comps, had to change build to higher er due to shields, tried burgeon for the first time. Yanfei ftw!
Now I'm exploring other off meta teams just to try. More to do now, and fairly excited about it.
Disagree on everything except one thing: The gold flying wolf, ruin serpent and the setekh wenut. Those 3 abominations shouldn't ever return to the abyss.
Serpent and Wenut also have some set of characters like nahida , yae , yelan etc that can make runs more smoothly so it all came down to do you have this and that characters or else keep retrying for better result . It's the same as this abyss but i consider this abyss being more restrictive and enemies do a lot of damage too . For my 3 years old account , i can comfortable go though this abyss because i have many characters and good artifacts but i don't think it's possible for majority of players who play about a year under
So like they shouldn't nerf the abyss but buff the shit out of the open world, I'm a for it man, have some bullshit consecrated beast jump out of nowhere and fuck up my character, that would be amazing. Like just buff up there damage agro range with like 50% more, maybe 200% on an AR60+ difficulty and bamn, it's easy.
Although they'll have to make changes so running away isn't as easy, like not being able to open the Map or just being trapped in the boss room until your characters fall
Calm down there. An optional Cataclysm WL would be cool but make sure you don't get any better rewards from it (keyword optional).
@@Crusader-yq1bf well I don't think they should increase the drop rate in domains or Primogems drop rates, but I don't see a reason for not having higher drop rates for open world enemies and bosses. Considering their inflated health bar.
Besides like they could have a requirement like having atleast 6 stars in last 2 abyss cycles to even activate the highest world level, and if you can't maintain the abyss performance you'd get demoted.
@@itsame7491 I just want people to feel forced to go into it if they genuinely aren't looking for that kind of a an experience.
Maybe an achievement for doing 400 commissions on that difficulty would be fine.
@@Crusader-yq1bf I understand, that's why a I don't want more tedious end game like simulated universe in HSR. I just want to have some semblance of challenge in the core gameplay again, without having to nerf myself to hell.
This is why proper player tailoring is necessary and being only able to access the highest level after you have proved yourself in some way like the abyss should be mandatory.
That Abyss was hell for me and I have C2 Raiden. Low spender btw. Building Raiden is a bit bothersome since you need a ton of ER and good crit split. She's probably my hardest hitting character, yet it's kinda useless when you can't hit the enemies, they're scattered or they have shields. I generally get 33 stars because the last 50 primo ain't worth it, but that Abyss I stopped at 30. And I struggled for those. This Abyss I finally got 36 stars with ease
a lot of whales not even play the abyss. why would they do that? that 100 primo is useful just for us the low spenders or f2p. why hoyo is abandon us? this game was really fun, but now i just feel i burned out. just do some artifacts or other things if its avaible. the events are boring, if sometime i want to pull on a character it come with high pity and a lot of time i loose the 50/50. the artifacts system is just horrible. the only interesting thing is the abyss, what is just got harder and harder with every patch. i dont wanna abandon this game cuz i playing a long time and i want to see what comes next, but... if not coming any new region or story or archon quest is just boring. yeah i really burned out now.
I don't think your burnout is from Hoyoverse specifically. Burnout happens, it's normal. Just take a break, it's okay! That's what I do when I feel a little defeated.
It seems a you problem, not the game. Take your time and comeback after
Artifact RNG is the main problem, as f2p AR60(1.0 player) who got 89mil mora and making my acc ded out of boredom, the fact to get perfect artifacts as f2p takes about 2-4 months of artifact grinding, then requirements for the artifact will be like:
-Main Stat
-Sub Stat Complete(all 4s)
-Sub Stat require Crit Rate and Crit DMG
-Sub Stat Flawlessly Upgraded Crit Rate or Crit DMG(As in you get 40% Sub Stat Crit Rate/Crit Dmg)
not required(depends):
-Sub Stat that has 2 HP%/+ or DEF%/+ and ATK+ = bad Sub Stat
rest sub stat depends, but it might be very bad if it did not aim for Crit Rate/Crit Dmg
Me: dead inside waiting for God Characters 10.0 that One Shots like "Heavenly Principles - Unknown God" lol xD, archons depends now
i've been 36*ing abyss for over a year and have all the characters (except for two), most of which are built. what's a bit disappointing to me is that i can't play abyss with different teams. i have to use the same type of compositions due to restrictions, like shields and time loss if you don't group enemies. kazuha hasn't had a break in a minute.
i also hate enemies who phuck you against the wall (the beasts) or come at you every which way that the only way to dodge them is if you completely ran away from the fight (the abyss mfs). i love when i get frozen and can't use my skill 3 times in a row! great gameplay :D
i agree with the overworld and abyss being on two different levels. i wish overworld was a bit harder, and abyss more practical. i have a friend who has been playing for a year and has worked really hard to build two solid teams with good stats, just for it to not work with abyss at all. abyss is what i look forward to the most, but i don't feel the same joy i used to. i dunno..
8:44 Not only that. But some characters deal LESS damage if they dodge, even lower if the enemies are very aggressive and force you to dodge more often, so you spend 40% of the time dodging, and thus ONLY 60% of the time attacking.
So if you wanna avoid Dodging altogether, you can just use Zhongli, whose shield is still basically unbreakable when built well enough, so you can attack non-stop
if anything this made me not wanna touch chamber 12 at all bc it just feels like a total drag atp
It is. The extra 50 primos from 33 to 36 stars is not worth it, never was never will be.
They should've just added floor 13, that would at least be fair. Instead, they turned floor 12 into floor 13
players would complain regardless
super well done video man, and very nicely said. I am giving up on the abyss too. Why subject myself to that when I can just go play diablo 4
I miss the 3.7 spiral abyss ngl. And, the reason why people say get good is because, there are some skills involved in the abyss. I stopped playing the game during jan of this year due to a burnout and came back after I heard how difficult the 3.7 abyss was and I wanted to challenge myself to see if I could still do it after not farming for 6 months (I have a horizontally invested account and I am a day one player).
It took some resets to 36 stars it because I had to tackle chamber by chamber with different comps. I eventually learnt that just by standing behind the hydro beast and constantly hugging him would make the grouping and ragdolling alot more managable. He also concidentally body blocks the dendro beast from hitting you. Which is nice. I also took benette out of my team and put yaoyao as my healer and played an aggravate comp instead so I don't get one shotted by their atk combos which helped me insanely in terms of how much damage I was taking. And that is a level 70 yaoyao with level 1 talents, so honestly, it seems disingenuous to completely dismiss skill issues. Because there are ways to mitigate damage by just playing smartly in that abyss and running units that won't get you vaped or burgeoned by the beasts. Which I reckon is why alot of the players felt that the damage was undodgeable. Because the same thing happened to me. I was just getting one shotted by the beasts when I'm on benette's circle. And it's only later that I realized, Benette was the issue because of the pyro cleanse he gives you.
Floor 12-1-2 was pretty easy with the international comp since you can just swirl the cryo onto the hydro guy and then use xl and benette to melt away the cryo shields. And 12-3-2 the bishap's shield is pretty weak so it isn't much of an issue as long as you have the right elements (again, benette xl xq is really good here and they have been around day 1 and are available to get from the shop so there are no excuses for f2ps/low spenders to not build them if they actually care about doing the abyss).
But I can also understand it may be frustrating for players who invested vertically, anti-meta players, or newer players that do not have the right elements to break the shields on the heralds. But honestly, other than that, I think most of the crucial characters for that abyss are 4 stars, so it's not really that much of a whale catering content and more of a investment and teambuilding knowledge check to see if you've invested in the right units (and that's where meta becomes really helpful because it tells you which units are worth your limited resources if you're an f2p/low spender)
In terms of the zhongli argument that you've made, yeah. I completely agree with that, if you can use zl and still have enough dps to meet the checks then go ahead and use him. He makes the game very comfortable to play. But the issue arises is that, when a player don't have enough dps to meet the checks, then zl quickly becomes a character that they would wanna replace in their team, and that's when dodging and deciding which hits can and cannot be taken becomes important (which is also skill issue). No one is saying to not use healers or shielders, but I do believe that lots of other healers can offer so much more to your comp than zl, such as kuki for hyperbloom or yaoyao for aggravate, and they work perfectly fine as solo sustain as long as you don't face tank all the hits like you would with zl and they take abit more skill to utilize.
And even no healer/sheilder comps such as sucrose taser, actually have sustain, in the form of damage reduction from beidou and xq's burst and xq also heals at the end of his e duration, that's why sacrificing a unit for a dedicated healer is not recommended, because the comp already offers enough damage mitigation for you to not run another healer/shielder in most cases to maximize dps if that is what the player needs to beat the timer. And if you really need a heal, prototype amber sucrose could also work.
Idk, all in all, I liked the 3.7 abyss. Having a more difficult abyss gives me a goal and reinvigorates my interest for the game. Now I'm back and farming xp books so i can finally 90/90 my electro units to maximize my aggravate damage (since i was playing with a 80/90 beidou and fischl when that abyss came out). But I do think, they could've put that as a floor 13 instead with lesser rewards so people don't mald over not completing it. But personally, spiral abyss is the most entertaining aspect of the game for me, and it is the reason why I play and build characters, so I enjoyed the challenge.
things to do in fllor 12 in genshin:
1.leave
i usually challenge aeonblight drake to test my team rotation. If the team can clear it with 1 rotation (for single target focus team) + some skills (multi/ mob team) or fewer without major enegy issue, its mean the team enough for abyss
Remember they say this game doesn't have end game content but at least it is F2P friendly ? Oh man, didn't age well. Now it's Whale focus AND still not having end game content
As a Hardcore player whose been getting 36* since patch 1.3 & someone who makes content on the Abyss, let me share my two cents on why Abyss is really difficult:
1. Enemies that stall (I-frame or straight up unhittable)
2. Enemies with Elemental Shield that take forever to break (Lectors & Heralds) (Thus, Elemental Check)
3. Enemies which move to one end of a chamber far away from you
4. Enemies that are spawned 3 miles away from each other (CC/Crowd Control check)
5. Chambers with multiple waves of enemies that won't spawn the next wave unless the previous one has been dealt with
6. Overworld Bosses placed in the Abyss with a forced mechanic/move (Aeonblight Drake w/ instant flight or ASIMON w/ invisibility)
7. Enemies with moves that can basically stun-lock you & delete your character afterwards
Abyss has only gotten more difficult because the Enemy Design is getting progressively worse plus the Artificially Induced Difficulty from the way the enemies are positioned & spawned.
I truly miss the times when we only had Ruin Guards & the Primo Geovishap in the Abyss since they were pretty well-designed for how straightforward their mechanics are.
As someone with high ping that goes up and down regularly as I play, the idea of perfectly timing a dodge is impossible, if my ping remains at one number I can do the dodge according to the lag but when it goes up and down all the time predicting the lag is impossible. So a shield or healer is necessary for me. I have been able to clear the most recent abyss cycles (as f2p) but it did take some resetting and going through a second time with different teams to get the best options.
I think the *no need a healer or no need a shielder* argument has been put out of context too much. TenTen made his point when saying *zhongli is not that good* it's because, a shielder is just a shielder. Unless if you hyper invest on your team, having a shielder might be a dps loss. Therefore, it would be better for you to go for more dmg buffer or anything else that could help you meet the dps check. If only abyss is not a time-attack, then yes, people would clearly value healer and shielder (assuming the enemies are just going to oneshot you)
For this abyss however, the problem lies with: You need to survive and you need to be fast. This also address as of why abyss is a poorly designed *endgame* content. Again, if we can fight these mfs without having to care about the time, I am sure the majority of players would appreciate it.
Anyway nice Insight and your pov on the state of the current abyss. Personally I love it, but I understand the frustration of players about it. To me, this is the right difficulty not because of my pride but because I love challenge. I don't care about the extra 50 primogems, what is worth is the challenge it gives me.
It’s not just the Abyss; the enemies’ design are also poorly done.
They’re designed to either waste time, to be too passive, or spongy, not to actually fight/kill you, and this is done right down to the mere Hilichurl.
The only Exceptions are the Lawachurls and Axe-wielding Mitachurls, which I think are the best designed enemies in Genshin.
Consecrated Beasts are just sponges designed to waste time on top of their aggressiveness, which is mostly made to stun and throw around the character.
Yeah TenTen’s opinion on Zhongli aged poorly. Zhongli is not “just a shielder“ he’s the best shielder and gives good buffs and his ult is way more useful than people realize.
Losing 5 seconds on abyss clear but halving the time you spend overall is why people use Zhongli. People don’t wanna speedrun abyss to flex their time, they just want primos.
@@pepperpig649 try and read my whole comments thoroughly. It's not about the speedrunning, it's about meeting the dps-check that is required. And putting zhongli there, with your team not having enough dmg to clear abyss in time, won't do much. Hence why the argument *he is just a shielder* is there
Other units give greater buffs to boost your dmg. Zhongli gives comfort, that's what he has. His *burst* animation is too long and unless you build him dmg, it's not that useful. Again if you hyper-invest on your units, using zhongli will benefit you. That's the point he was making
You’re missing my point. You’ll have to reset multiple times without reliable defensive units causing you to spend more time trying to clear it. Zhongli is most usually not the problem in the equation that leads to you not being able to clear it in time. Dodging is also a dps loss if you didn’t know and vs enemies like in chamber 3 first half floor 12 it doesn’t matter if you dodge you’ll die anyways so you’ll be stuck to quickswappy teams to eyeframe AND EVEN THEN you’ll probably die anyways because the enemies attack every millisecond staggering you. Go look at the usage rate. Zhongli sits at 60% and this data comes from f2p to leviathans. Zhongli doesn’t only shield, he decreases enemy resistance by 20% and gives you 20% atk with artis. His own personal damage is also not bad while he can basically lock small to medium large enemies in place with a 10 second cooldown. YOU CAN NEVER GET HIT AFTER USING ZHONGLI ULT TO EYEFRAME ON SMALL TO MEDIUM LARGE ENEMIES.
If people really cared for squeezing a tiny bit of extra damage then why zhongli 20-30 times more used than sucrose?
I don’t even have Zhongli. But to say he’s “just a shielder = dps loss 🤓” is the cringiest shit ever.
@@pepperpig649 Plus, those meta nerds seem to forget Zhongli's shield has a 15% res shred to everything. So... he's technically improving your dps by a whopping 15%, 100% of time, on top of giving you survivability, and no need to dodge which IS an actual dps loss for characters that don't like to get interrupted (Ganyu, Yoimiya, Xiao, etc etc).
Take that, dps slavewhores/speedrunners.
Another issue is just how hard artifacts are to get. As someone who has spent money on genshin and has been playing for a year (no resin refreshes) and farms artifacts basically everyday I'm not building talents, I still haven't been able to build the most optimal things on every character. If the game worked on knowledge then every artifact piece I get would have perfect rolls and substats.
I have what you could call an abyss ritual I do every abyss. Since about 1.4 or so, vape diluc and melt ganyu have been my go to's (consistent 36 stars). First 36 star clear of every new abyss is with them, partly for the ritual and partly to see the difficulty of each new abyss. This abyss was the first one in a while I had to back out, switch the team sides, and go back in to clear a specific chamber in floor 12. I died to more BS and cheese this abyss than any other, this abyss was just badly designed imo.
Edit: I also do abyss mainly for the challenge/the stars, so this one sucked extra hard for me. Sorta f2p, spent money to get diluc skin but nothing else.
I 36-starred this season's Abyss with 2 c0 5star units, and I'm f2p:
1st half: Xingqiu, Sucrose, Fischl, Beidou
2nd half: Nahida, Bennett, Xiangling, Ayato
Beidou destroys aoe content, especially when there's 2 enemies. Her c1 shield is sturdy enough with her and Xingqiu's damage reduction stacking. Aggrevate is an alternative that should work if you need Xingqiu on the 2nd side, so you can replace him with a dendro too.
For the 2nd side, Nahida is just there for shields, and is replaceable. Ayato is also replaceable by Childe or Yelan. Xingqiu would also work here if you want to take him from the 1st side.
Also, I don't own Zhongli.
I'm so freaking mad Xingqiu is required for abbyss, not even Bennet and Xiangling or Kazuha have this staying power, I know it's probably just me but I got so tired of him being a necessity
@@Szczurzyslawa He's a necessity because no other hydro characters except 5* are dps class. Barbara? Healer, and arguably the worst in the game. Mona? Debuffs enemies, not really built for damage. Although can work as nuke/freeze teams. Kokomi? 5* Barbara. Candace? Let's not talk about that. Nilou? Too niche/restrictive. The only ones left that can be used for dps are coincidentally 5* characters. Tartaglia, Ayato, Yelan.
Also tazer team not that good for 12-3-1. Tried it, couldn't kill the 4 beasts with enough time for second half. And no, my artifacts are decent, but I refuse to slave myself grinding artifacts for 1 year to get ones that are barely marginably better. 250 cv in all 3 of them except Sucrose, she only needs EM (and she has 900+).
@@Sergmanny46 Yeah, people really don't feel the lack of hydro 4* because theres so many hydros in general but they're all 5* and that's pretty whack to me.
@@Szczurzyslawa What's not whack is that you can actually guarantee yourself a 5* hydro character if you're patient and disciplined with your primos. The same cannot be said about 4*. For example you can spend 300 pulls and not get a single Xingqiu, but 28 Dionas and 3 Kukis.
Luckily for you not all is lost. You can still get Xingqiu from the shop twice a year (March and September), so you still have plenty of time to passively get 34 starglitter to get him. His sword though... you'll need a bit of luck yes, but you can either use favonius sword or sapwood blade as replacements.
@@Sergmanny46 As someone who didn't get a single Faruzan in 90 pulls I'd know so yeah but tbh it IS whack it's harder to get 4* in this game than 5*
With swords it's not that easy cuz my fav is taken by Kazuha and sapwood by Benny, and yeah Xq will be in the shop eventually, but if I lack wishes for a certain 5* I want no glitter will be left. But yeah, those very few and inbetween 4* are actually gettable
I think this video showed me that without my C2 Nahida, I prob. wouldn't of been able to clear this with 36*
Floor 1
First half: Nilou/kokomi/nahida/beizhu (yes a fully 5*team with broken c2 nahida) to have as much time possible for 2nd half.
second half: Kazuha/Ganyu/xiangling/benny: Lots of burst action here. i needed INSANE ER to do this team properly. xiangling had 275er, benny 250, ganyu 200er. xD this was legit the only team i had that can do this within 1min 45-2min
Floor 3
First half: Raiden EM, C2 Nadhia, C1 yelan, Kokomi (with r5 sac wep. sac wep is required as the conc beasts move u so much that u need to recast ur jellyfish all the time for repositions. kokomi is pretty much required as you need to try to keep in her ult form for interrupt resistance and an absolute tank/healer/hydro application for critting hyperblooms. If these conc beasts werent hydro/dendro, they would explode instantly to this dmg) --still takes me 1min and 20seconds to beat it :/
2nd half: Ayaka/xinqiu/xiangling/benny: without having 1min and 30ish seconds for this phase. my benny/xiangling/xinqiu dont do enough dmg for less than 1min clears like ive seen others on youtube. You need to be in FULL energy for team to even work. Ayaka needs to burst hydro and get lots of dmg in. side note, i do have Mist splitter xD. this was my fastest team. My kazuha sucks currently.
but without my crazy hyperbloom/nilou bloom teams with c2 nahida, i rly dont have any other team to give me so much time to break the shields. You need massive dmg dealers for the first half.
I think this Abyss is great, and I also think the abyss should only get harder, with the assumption C0 5 Stars and C4-6 4 Stars are still able to full clear.
Even if it reaches a point I can't clear it anymore that just means I need to build into different teams and units, it gives value to other characters that were not being played on my account.
We need a place that can challenge the players and that place is currently only the Abyss as of now.
Abyss should not be an easy means to get free 600 primos. That's my opinion.
You are totally right
Do those 600 primos go any further than they did at launch? They need to up the rewards to compensate for the difficulty spike
The crux of the issue isn't the abyss being hard but rather why is it hard. When talking about difficulty there are 2 main forms. The lazy form which only increases the stats and number of enemies, and the creative form which adds more mechanics. The problem with this abyss is that it does much much more in the way of increasing stats rather than adding mechanics. When a player states they want a hard fight they don't mean a bullet sponge that one-shots them if their pinky toe is too far forward. What they mean is a fight that has meaningful mechanics that the player will have to deal with. Mechanics are not just dodging, they are certain actions the player has to make in order to avoid being affected, this takes into account player placement, enemy placement, any interactable objects, and what phase the boss/enemy in question is currently at.
This form of difficulty can only work when ALL players have access to the same opportunities, this is a gacha game therefore not all players have access to everything. Additionally players don't like being pigeonholed into a specific character or element, this is because not everyone has enough recourses to build more characters and artifact sets. People want to use the characters they like not just use the only character that is effective. No one wants the abyss to be easy, they want it to be challenging in a good way like adding a boss with actual mechanics not just increasing the stats of all enemies.
Also fun fact the consecrated beast has more HP than the entire Tartaglia boss fight this is a problem that should be addressed, but Hoyoverse most likely will not fix it but rather just make it worse in future patches.
@@wushutwist4234 you said it yourself, this is a Gacha and not ALL players have access to the same opportunities (Characters, Elements, Gears, etc.)
Even if hoyo added these mechanical challenges, only some players will be able to clear while leaving no room for the others to actually having a chance since they just don't have the things to overcome the mechanics. Sounds worse in my opinion.
But I'm here to understand people's views, if the fact enemies are becoming too tanky, can 1 shot our characters (especially in bennet's ult lmao), smart enough to run to stall for time 🤣 in a time challenge, placed in synergistic elemental compositions to freeze, burn, vape, overload our characters to oblivion aren't really mechanical difficulties.
Then what would you suggest they do to make it what players want, while keeping the abyss fair and accessible to many accounts?
@@theRaika I may have worded it incorrectly but I was referring to just increasing the stats of an enemy when I said it only works when players have access to everything. The bigger problem here is the genshin was not made to satisfy players like me who want mechanical challenge rather than statistical challenge. Mechanical challenge can be overcome by skill, but at a certain point statistical challenge will be impossible to clear for players who have not grinded for 2+ years. The challenge players want is mechanical challenge, this is almost impossible to satisfy because there is not enough time in-between spiral abyss resets to create new mechanics for multiple bosses.
My preferred way to handle this want for difficulty is to first have 1 team, this solves a small problem that players face because not everyone has the time or resources to build 2 teams of characters. I would then add 3 world bosses and 1 weekly boss in a sort of boss rush mode. When creating a mode like this you need to give every boss a new mechanic or 2 so that the fight does not feel stale. You also need to increase the stats of those bosses so that they cannot be killed too quickly, increasing enemy stats is only lazy when it is the only form of difficulty that was added. Lastly instead of make it a time attack mode I would instead add specific challenges to that boss like "Don't get hit for x seconds", this solves the problem of the abyss also being a DPS check.
However this solution is not without flaws, first this requires every boss to get new mechanics which in a 2 week time frame is impossible. In order for this to work the abyss needs to be overhauled so that all bosses do have new moves and mechanics specific to the abyss prior to implementing this. Second this type of mode is not everyone's cup of tea, while I would like this mode not everyone would. Needless to say the current style of abyss is fine, but at this rate newer players will have a hard time even clearing the abyss let alone 36 star it. If there are any flaws that I have missed feel free to let me know.
Its only 150 Primos so its not really bothering me that much anyway. That may be because of the fact that im fairly new and i havent even explored most of Inazuma and Sumeru. This brings me to the conclusion that the only people bothering are the ones that already cleared every content in the game. So the solution is not to hyper-adjust the Abyss rather than bringing actual meaningful and fun endgame content to the table. The playerbase just has to clearly voice their opinions instead of crying over a meaningless treadmill endgame.
Bro this is so accurate..dear lord the get good mentality..😅.. someone has to tell this.. ❤️
Well infact i have the same argument for the "u dont ne to bring healer/shielder, just dodge it" this abyss is just out my brain. But the fact that i xan clear it back then is also a sign that its still clear able.
My team was baizhu fischl beidou with multiple reset like 50-90 😭
the meta changed from "just get good" to "just topup".
Are you saying 60 percent of players aren't good?
Yes
The fact that people can clear the recent abyss with decent investment vs the people with same investment or more cant is just really a skill issue. I see people even streamers crying while having whale accounts lmao. Atleast we see now who people wrote "anxiety" in the surveys.
I used Kazuha, Childe, Bennett, and Xiangling on one team, and Nilou, Nahida, Kirara, and Xingqiu on the other. Had retry for the middle part and swap the teams, Nilou is amazing vs the Thunder Manifestation btw. Got 36 stars.
Before the 3.7 abyss I didn't use zhongli I just pull for him to complete my archon collection and a backup if I don't feel like dodging in the abyss but when the 3.7 abyss came out I have to use zhongli for my hyperbloom Raiden and replace xq with zhongli just to survive. And the 4 Concentrated beast, I have to restart so many times bcuz either it's that they want to group or just very hard to dodge atks. And I hate that you need a specific element to clear the floor like in the second half there are abyss herald that needs pyro to clear, so I usually just don't 3 star on the first run and just come back to 3 star the first chamber. And also having specific characters to have easier clearing time, I don't if this is true but why is second half seems easier if you have yoimiya.
The thing is, for me at least, Hoyoverse (more specifically, the Genshin team) gave up on the game. Genshin is an incredibly complex and complete game, they just dont care about it. This abyss shows it, its is not abou how much money you can gorge the game with, cuz it is neither hard nor competitive enough to need it, if one ACTUALLY play the game, grind their characters and have some knowledge around the game's system, they can face roll through everything, they don't need c6r5 characters to do so. Hoyoverse is too scared to listen to the ones actually playing the game because they are scared of "shoo-ing" the casuals. This game was too popular to begin with, and they became hyper fixated on keeping the numbers high, disregarding the ones that actually care about the game. Casuals wont be loosing anything by not playing the actual endgame the people that actually want to see the game grow want, they don't play enough to have the right to care. Now hoyo is trying to keep the long term players that became saturated with the company's lack of attention towards their opinions, but they dont want to make the casuals mad by introducing content that they wouldn't bother to play anyway. How they do it? With increasingly infuriating abyss cycles that portray this false idea of difficulty by plopping enemy formations that have the sole task of stall and make us think "maybe I could've done it if i payed to have so and so thing, or maybe if i invested more time I could've made it". They know what they're doing and they do so because they don't need to care about the game's actual players. That is my opinion on the hole "abyss" situation.
" they dont want to make the casuals mad by introducing content that they wouldn't bother to play anyway." - genshin tcg in a nutshell. All jokes aside, I feel that enemies that burrow underground or have s isn't inherently "bad" so to speak, but everything just boils down to the fact that we are being restricted by a 3 minute timer. Had there been alternate win conditions introduced, such as protecting the monolith, or even something like "do not take more than a cumulative 20000hp in damage (hp subtracting skills excluded)", then the abyss would be MUCH more enjoyable for everyone (but of course, we all know that's not gonna happen). In a nutshell, I feel that the very fundamental gameplay of the abyss isn't enjoyable/tolerable enough because it always passively coerces/tempts you into spending on banners, which objectively upgrades your characters and aren't some optional cosmetic upgrade. No wonder games like honor of kings still reigns over genshin by a mile in the chinese market
Bro, even with my best teams, I couldn't even clear the Abyss Floor 12 with zero stars (let alone nine), because I keep getting frozen every two seconds, which got me killed multiple times.
You can't keep the same rewards since launch with this huge difficulty spike and expect people to not complain. It's not really worth the effort.
I pretty much one and done it. Unless there was an obvious mistake I can reset, I'm plowing through regardless how many stars I have.
I stopped caring about the abyss in about 1.6. I just skip floor 12 all together. 150 primos isn't worth my sanity. I already have a full time job. I play this game to relax and chill, not stress on the meta and hard grind artifacts all day.
I don't mind the enemy lineup. I don't mind the assembly of the element. I don't mind bosses with a lot of HP and oneshot abilities. These are all things I can build my teams around and aside from the random roll of gatcha artifacts, it's ultimately just a matter of time. I carefully chose my 2 teams to entertain me, they can handle multiple and single enemy, they can break any shield. But what bothers me is the random stupid movement of the enemies, when they randomly jump around the whole arena without any pattern. Even though I can handle abyss and I'm already at the stage where I don't care about the number of stars but the shortest possible time, these random attacks and movement is the only thing that can't be controlled and prepared for, which means that the game lacks any skill, which you are building. Not only control of characters, but also their readiness, choice of artifact (everyone from TH-cam knows which artifact is best for whom, but everyone has limited artifacts and the point is not to make one character strong, but to have two balanced teams, between which you distribute the power of the artifacts and teams work), weapons, team building. It's all part of the skill and then it's broken by an idiot enemy with no intelligence who randomly jumps to the other side of the arena just because. I hate it so much.
The thing driving me mad about this abyss is that I know I have everything I need to beat it but since I don't have a solid freeze comp, I can only get 35/36 stars, despite trying for genuine hours.
There is a difference between difficult and ridiculous. The consecrated beast floor is ridiculous and this fight genuinely punishes anyone who doesn't have a viable freeze comp because theyre not just tanky and hit hard, they're also extremely mobile. That's not to say other teams cannot beat floor 12-3 but when it starts becoming a problem that you dont have specific characters, that's when theres an issue. It's encouraged (if you dont have cracked freeze comp...) you stay by the gator and fight by a wall so the tiger can just follow you but that's not even a secure strategy because the gator will quite literally ungroup and cartwheel across the arena for no reason at all, despite you being right next to it. To top it all off, the gator is quite actually sluggish and moves towards you in a slower rate than the tiger who will just run towards you. Like it is IMPERATIVE that both beasts are burned down at the same time. So, when one of the beasts AI makes it so it's going to move itself (AND EVEN THE PLAYER SOMETIMES) out of place, now a fight that was simply difficult suddenly becomes annoying and not fun.
I believe that the people complaining about this abyss also complain that their is no incentive to play other characters and healers an shielder at not need so it is more a whale thing and not for f2ps
When I came back from work at like 9pm after a rough day, saw the abyss reset, cleared floors 9-11 in a little under 30 minutes and spent another 1 and half on floor 12 only to leave with 2 stars.
That's when I stopped caring about this rotation. I don't got the time to care like that.
You know shits gotten real when even pc players who has objectively better controls have a hard time clearing abyss and genshin was supposed to be designed for mobile in the first place. Abyss just needs to have alternative win conditions other than having to beat a floor in 3 minutes for full rewards.
Watching this after 3.8 abyss dropped. I am just like you, low spender. I was able to clear EVERY abyss until the 3.7 one. I think i had whopping 270 restarts before i just gave up for my sanity..i am willing to say that even Welnut abyss was better than this was..
Thank god that 3.8 abyss is like a breeze in the wind, fun and just enough hard to keep me going
The keyword for abyss nowadays is “stalling impact”. I did 36* abyss with a 10+ retries and i am not proud of it. But here’s the catch, imagine doing abyss on mobile. It stalls and it loads forever. Then someone will say to you to “get good”.
FRRRR
I think either the community, or the game needs to know what it wants the abyss to be.
Is it endgame content? Is it supposed to scale smoothly or raise in spikes? Who is supposed to be able to clear it and who's supposed to know they shouldn't be able to anyways and try at their own risk.
I think if that's settled this debate can move further in some way.
Because right now what the community wants the abyss to be is not what the abyss currently is.
Nah man, the only reason i'd even attempt this abyss would be if they upped the primo reward. This is NOT worth only 150
I can confirm... It's really about getting good.
My friend said he couldn't clear. So I logged into his account and cleared it within 2 attempts not even realising the one of the characters wasn't equipped
Why this abyss 12 is challenging is that you require a wide variety and very specific characters to 9* it consistently. You also need planning and positioning and a bit of luck in the top half.
So people ask for harder abyss or end game and you guys complain when the harder content comes around? Get a grip
Doing Slave Knight Gale SL1 hitless is just easier that doing abyss 12. Genshin as a game is so easy but if you want to meet the damage requirements of abyss you have to grind artifacts and books like crazy. I have no time (or money) to do that so I just do not touch floor 12 lately.
Also spiral abyss is not a meaningfull lategame. As long as you invested enough you can do it more or less mindlesly. As every other thing in genshin.
0:20 You just named both kinds of characters? This is like saying, yeah my friends are mainly either boys or girls.
hoyo heard players say genshin was too easy so they added this (my theory)
I hope you are right. I want more of that
I am player sence 1.3 and now finally i felt comfortable enough to try floor 12 and i have most “metah” characters i don’t have ayaka ayato nahida yae miko kazuha. But i have raiden yelan ganyu hu tao itto and some others i think. But the harolds are just painaful i don’t mind the hp or the attacks but the shields are so STRONG for no reason
I think that not being able to clear the abyss should not be seen as a negative thing, it should be seen as an opportunity to improve your account and try different things, but it's difficult to get players to see it that way after 2 years of clearing the abyss with an under leveled account. I like the current difficulty (2y Welkin only player). It makes you want to build different characters that fit certain archetypes and shows you what elements/characters are missing in your account, taking into account that now enemies are using elemental reactions on you and aim CC you. If you don't want to put the effort, then that's your decision and it's respectable too because Genshin is a PVE game after all. Being able to clear the abyss 2-3 months after starting an account IMP only hurts the longevity of the game because there's nothing else to aspire to after that. Of course, I respect and understand different the points of view, specially the casual players that want to clear but cannot because of the difficulty level.
I also think players shouldn’t care about clearing abyss, but you know who does care about people wanting to clear no matter the cost?
Hoyoverse/Mihoyo
Like any gacha game, Hoyo utilizes FOMO to get people to spend money on the game, and the abyss is one good example of this as they design the floors to sell characters and weapons. Wanting greater difficulty and thinking people should see the abyss as an opportunity to improve your account can easily translate to giving in to the predatory nature of the game, even if one can’t afford to, cause that does easily happen when gacha games constantly sells you a solution. But I guess people that whine about lack of difficulty in Genshin are willing to support predatory practices since their enjoyment of the game is the only thing that matters.
Ngl, I'd rather hear someone say "git gud" because hearing someone say "skill issue", most of the time the people that say that have c6 r5 characters. What? so its a skill issue that I'm not a whale in this game?
I had to completely change Xiangling into an EM Build just to complete it... Just Thoma doesn't cut it.
You know, I am very torn on how I feel about this abyss. Have been playing since 1.5 and getting consistent 36 stars for the longest time. Been struggling on this one for a long time now. While I do agree that a challenging abyss is a good thing, this shit just isn't fun. Hoyoverse has this warped understanding of difficulty being inversely proportional to fun which shouldn't even be the case. The design of the frost heralds, consecrated beasts and others is beyond irritating and just eats at any enjoyment you can get from this game. In the end, the devs will just be smirking and saying like "this is what you asked for" no b*tch it definitely isn't! This isn't meaningful endgame!
Sorry about the rant but this is truly beyond frustrating.
If abyss is too easy people wont be motivated to build more characters and play more in order to beat floor 12. If it was too easy then there wouldnt be much reason to spend much time on the game other than when a new event/quest or update is released.
If it's too hard I'm not motivated either because what's the point? Of years of building characters and grinding artifacts and even dumping some moderate amount of money and then getting abbyss like this and not being able to clear it?? You don't need to even touch gacha to sweep the overworld so yeah, it's very demotivating
@@Szczurzyslawa If you spent years building your characters then you should be able to 36 star it unless you you did silly things like make a hyper carry Amber and did not think about meta comps. I mean I only ever spent about $80 on this game and I was able to clear it with many different teams. You should have characters like Xingqiu, Bennett, and Xiangling all built right? Add that to Nahida and it makes the bottom floor super easy. Top floor can be beaten but whatever meta team you want like aggravate, spread, freeze, taser, mono geo, etc.
@@AzureDrag0n1 Personally I've been playing for "only" a year but I still do not have Xingqiu and building Xiangling seems impossible because half a year of grinding emblem domain didn't drop me a single ER sands. But my gf has been playing since Xiao release, she has all the meta units besides Nahida (bad luck), all well built doing chonky damage and she still cannot 36*
@@Szczurzyslawa Why did you not buy Xingqiu in the shop? It should be an auto buy every time he shows up and he shows up 2x a year. I am trying to think what could have been worth picking up the past year over the 2 Nahida banners and I can not think of anything. Probably only Yelan and her banner had Xingqiu and Beidou while the earlier Nahida banner had Bennett. The other Nahida banner had Kuki.
@@AzureDrag0n1 Because when you start a new game
1. you don't know which units are strong/broken
2. you don't know that you even have to bother with buying 4* from the shop because you're used to them dropping like crazy in other gachas (while in genshin getting specific 4* is hell)
3. you don't have enough glitter for quite some time and you might just miss the window when he's available
I also just don't like his personality so that's on me, but legitimately I've never had glitter on me when he was in the shop anyway. Only unit I ever did have enough for was Beidou whom I got via shop to C2 when I was more concious of the game mechanics so I could help her with AoE dmg.
When I started playing I tried to get Kazuha but 80 pity was not enough, then I threw literally 1 wish for Venti and he came home. Later I got indeed Nahida, Yae, Nilou, and lucky early 50-50 win for Yoimiya. Also A LOT of people do not think of banners who is "worth" picking up, they go for their beloved faves, especially in first half year of playing from what I've seen.
Example would be like this, I played during launch and it took awhile for me to clear a 36 star, the best part about it is I didn't practice it at all and just cleared it in one swoop because I ignored floor 12, then eventually tried as I obtain the chars I wanted, but ever since 2.0 later somethin, I gave up I didn't have the patience, cause it kept power creeping the chars I wanted, and prevents my favorite ones not do it well, specifically Eula and C6noelle, yeah Eula can clear it, but not as comfortable as the other 5 star unit, and it didn't really click on me cause I actually play games that have different "hardmode" in mind, it was Tera online, tho haven't cleared all of the HM dg, but I never tried more than 3 tries on the abyss, while on Tera we would spend more than half a day learning one dg, the reason is it had its actual purpose for grind unlike genshin you are rewarded one with incomplete pull for the last floor every 4weeks? while in tera its daily thing for mmorpg, but the most important part is you can tell what hard mode difference really is than normal, in genshin the way they made it hard is by either increasing enemy counts, spreading them far apart or just slap a riduculus amount of hp, Tera hard mode vs normal meant there will be a lot of changes to attack pattern and strategy because bosses gain new kinds of attack, one dungeon that I really like was called grotto of lost souls, in normal mode there are no oneshots, while in hardmode almost every special attack/skill or mech will delete you, but thats not all, the bosses tend to gain 3 or more new attack that you have to learn on hardmode, some even wipes the entire team as punishment for one player dying or make it harder for the team to complete a mech or the dg itself due do dps check, which what I was hoping for in genshin when they first introduced hypostasis symphony, yes both different game, but same concept for endgame content, yeah tera is dead but that game is 10 yrs old, my point is I never really like the idea of just buffing hp and multiplying them to make it hard, hypostasis and other similar event should have been the abyss way of doing hard modes, not putting dozens of hilichauls like they are from a different continent, tera has dps checks too, not just mashing things and avoiding shit, you actually need to learn at most 10 skill rotations average per character to do minimum damage required or more, as for power creeping I get that they had to do some of them or they won't sell, but the difference in abyss right now is just way off than what it was for the same amount of reward.
Spiral abyss simply gets harder so it could make you feel that you need new units asap so you could spend money on pulls. This is a gatcha game, Which is the greediest form of game and most of all, Is a business designed to extract as much money as possible from you.
The problem with the abyss is not the enemy difficulty but in many cases enemies that makes you waste your time having extremely little margins for making damage and when the enemy is not wasting your time they become a sponge damage that makes an insane damage even one shotting your team and in case you want to improve your damage you need better artifacts or worse, constellations. People that say "BuT YoU cAn UsE 4 StArS" let me tell you, even for some of those 4 stars in order to get the best result you need a specific weapon that is locked behind a paywall or hours of infinite grinding if not a timed weapon that ran during a limited time event (I'm looking at you, Festering Desire)
floor 12 second half is hard
until i switch my usual DPS with Diluc
the big abyss lector at the end doesnt get the chance to do anything other than taking the damage like a champ
1:48 talking about that with a eula gameplay hurts me and every eula main );
I totally agree with this video
The thing with new Abyss its not fun or engaging or challenging anymore. It's just pure frustration. At first i was very excited for new abyss to test my characters limits. But not this time. I just don't thing its worth my time. Everything about this Abyss is pure rng and dmg sponge with stalling mechanics
Which makes me question. Should i even bother with meta ? Why bother getting weapons or meta characters if Abyss is nothing but rng fueled frustration?
3:30 FOR SOME REASON no one is telling people that they can run into a wall to prevent consecrated beasts from moving everywhere
Skill issue tho 🤓🤓🤓
@@xLuis89x Nope
Cringe camera ankles
The biggest issue with the new mob design is their attacks don’t have icd on the damage instances and their incompetent hitbox design.
If you dash the rolling attack of the crocodile, your model is still physically getting dragged with it even though youre invulnerable for a few frames, but you will still end up dying as soon as the s end.
2-3 second windows of attacks that tick every split second when your dodge window is half a second is retarded design.
I don't try for abyss tbh. I just get the stars up to floor 11 and just try floor 12. My acc is very good, most my characters have above average builds but i totally skipped sumeru characters so everything that is obviously made to be defeated by dendro is really hard for my teams. Also the whole enemies being immune for most of the fight while on a timer challenge is so absurd i stopped trying