What coffee machine to buy in 2023? ($1000-$3000)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2022
- 1:26 Rancilio Silva V6 www.ranciliogroup.com/rancili...
1:50 Rancilio pro/pro x www.ranciliogroup.com/rancili...
2:30 Lelit Anna / Grace / Anita / Victoria / Kate / Elizabeth lelit.com/coffee-machines/
6:16 E61
6:55 Profitec/ECM / Rocket / Isomac / Bezzera / La Pavoni www.profitec-espresso.com/en rocket-espresso.com/ baristawarehouse.com.au/colle... www.bezzera.it/en/home au.lapavoni.com/
14:15 Ascaso Dream Pid www.ascaso.com/div-espresso-c...
15:08 Steel Duo Pid www.ascaso.com/div-espresso-c... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
A few months ago we bought an Expobar Minore IV for the staff room at school. Dual boiler, PID and 7 second pre-infusion allows it to make excellent espresso and the steam pressure and quality have been great. We put about 1 to 2 kg of beans through it a week and it has been a beast so far. Super happy with the machine.
Fantastic machine, definitely good for use in an office environment where you can leave it running all day as it gets used throughout. The wait time to heat up (20-30min) can be a long time for the home user (although you could just use a timer to set it to turn on before you get up). Thanks for sharing! 👌
expobar are awesome
my first espresso machine was Breville Barista Express also with build in grinder and I had zero issue with moister or heat. So I don't really agree that may be a issue!
What a great video Ryd. This is my price range and you have covered a few that I’m looking at as my upgrade. The Ascaso Steel Duo is probably top of the list, primarily because it passes the aesthetic test for my wife but has all the features I am looking for.
We have our first child coming in Jan though so for now I’m getting by with my crappy Breville machine
Oh congrats on your child my friend! They are the best things in the world. I have two and I think the first 10-12 years were absolutely amazing (teenagers are a little hard 😂).
Hey the Breville will do just fine, run it until it dies and take your time but just make sure you have a good back-up option for in-between machines cos Mumma gonna need those coffees! 😂❤️🤗
I loved this video. Thank you mate, from Brisbane, Australia!
Thank you!
Thank you for this video! I am not a barista and I was so confused which machine to choose 🙈 I finally understood the difference between the Lelit models, which one fits me and why! Thank you again! 👍
You're welcome!
Fantastic video! I like your films very much. You do a fantastic job. Thank you!
Thanks for the awesome video. Just left work and listened to this on my way home. Happy Holidays to you sir’
Thank you JC! Glad I could be of service. 👌👌
Enjoy your holidays! 🎉
Love this video Ryd!
Thanks Antonio! 👌👌
great video - so much information!
Thank you kind sir! 🤗🙌 These comments are the most rewarding!
After realizing that my Gaggia Classic Evo has f**kin teflon coating in the boiler (and I bought it thinking it was stainless steel, as advertised), I decided to get ECM Classika PID. Really looking forward for it to arrive!
Liking your vids! I know you’re talking Aus $$$ but not sure if you could’ve included here the Lelit MaraX running for $1700 USD with its classic E61 group head and wood accent looks amazing. I bought the Ascaso DUO PID v2 a couple of months ago for $1600 USD- got the black one with walnut accent and by the looks alone I was in love. Even my wife-was impressed by the looks of it but unfortunately it came to me faulty (steaming issues) so I sent it back all disappointed and decided to go with the Lelit MaraX and I love it in black with the maple wood accents. I’m really loving the tactile experience of the E61 group and it’s making amazing espresso - while it doesn’t have a degree by degree PID control on the exterior however it does have an internal dual PID and one can select 3 temperature sets for dark, medium and light roast. Plus MaraX has some unique feature that allows you to prioritize temperature for brewing or steaming- pretty neat! I’m of course already experienced prepping the puck for a good extraction learned my way using Breville Barista Express! Cheers
Same here. Had the breville infuser and moved up to the Mara x and it was a huge jump in quality of espresso. Love the machine so far.
Hi Ryde, No mention of the Thermoblock design in the Ascaso. Would love your thoughts. It is a sweet looking machine but worried about longevity vs e61 and thermoblock vs dual boiler usage.
This is a great rundown thanks! I've been looking at this price range and I reckon the Ascaso Steel Duo PID is the way I'm headed - looks great, passes the wife test, not another giant chrome box, dual boiler. Happy!
Yes people forget that you have to pass the partners eye test because they won't let you have it on the kitchen bench if it's ugly! 😂
It's not really a dual boiler machine, it is dual thermoblock AFAIR, but Ascaso says their technology is good enough to produce great brew stability, don't know about steam power though, that cannot be as powerful as some machines with higher pressure large steam boilers due to simple physical limitation of heating power hmm
@@OYeahan Merci pour ces renseignements. Je pensais que c'était aussi une double chaudière. Mon choix était la ascaso, la Lelit Elizabeth ou la nuova simonelli mood. Je sais pas le quel est meilleur. Utilisation Espresso/latte art .
J'étais parti pour la mara x mais le temps de chauffe ma refroidi.
En tout cas la ascaso est magnifique.
@@Irfan-vn5gfwell I don't know about Simonelli, but I guess Lelit Elizabeth would heat up a bit faster than MaraX, and what is unique about Elizabeth is that the max steam boiler temperature can be set really high, so you can get high steaming power and reduced milk dilution. If I get money back for my broken Sage Dual Boiler, I'm considering buying some other machine, and I am considering something a bit higher class so it would last me a few years. Lelit Bianca in black trim looks very interesting and has an acceptable price, but I discovered that for 23% more I could also have Crem One Profiler, which has more modern features, looks very interesting and could possibly produce more repeatable results using programmable features. IDK about build quality vs Lelit, and the atypical pump they are using though.
Just another data point for all. I had a Rancilio Silvia and it lasted exactly 10 years minus one week. It was a mostly reliable machine and it definitely leveled up my espresso making skills from the cheaper machines I had used prior. I look forward to getting one with a heat exchange boiler so I can brew and steam at the same time, at the cost of double the price.. but worth it I'm a latte addict.
Yesss. Thanks for sharing!
Great video! One thing to mention is I have had an Ascaso steel pro for 10 years and as much as I like the machine their customer support is the worse I have experienced. I even live in Spain where their factory is a 30 min drive away, so in theory it should be a breeze. I am thinking of upgrading to a dual boiler machine but now I would avoid buying another Ascaso based only on their poor service as I can't get my steamer fixed by the same people who make it. Thanks for your video, I love listening to your straightforward advice. I'm now considering 2 of the machines you recommended, so very useful 🙌
That's shocking to hear! Thanks for sharing and I think it's so important to know because most people only care about appearance and money but maintenance is a big thing. This definitely knocks them down a bit on my list.
I have an ascaso grinder and they are pretty much ghosts if you have questions 😂and finding info online was pretty much non existent. I don't think I don't think I would buy an espresso machine from them. Especially I thought maybe it was a snobbing usa thing that there wasn't customer service but seeing you are so close and it was the same is very enlightening 😆
So glad I read these comments. I was about to pull the trigger on the steel duo. I guess the search will have to continue
I've just recently produced a new series with better machines that might help you in your search. 🤞👌
th-cam.com/video/DyPViqFakY8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Lxq9S_VIjmtRh7i-
Nice video well explained.
I feel like 1000-3000 is a huge price difference. Usually people who are in the market for 1000 dollar machines arent in the market for anything over 1500 dollar machines let alone 2 to 3000 dollar ones. Better off making 3 different videos for each price point.
I get it, but i also think it helps show what you’re getting at each range.
Agree. But! The difference between 1K and 2K is much more than 2k-3k. (Obviously first is 100% increase and second is 50% increase)
Hey Ryd, I loooove your content! Keep smashing it !
Question for you, what do you think about the Quick Mill Pippa? I’ve seen some good reviews on it and it’s in this price range of machine you are reviewing.
What are your personal thoughts on it? Cheers !
Love your honest videos, I’m sure it’s hard to toe that line of not being too brutal and keeping it tasteful and respectful- This is exactly my price range and have done soooo much research (prob too much) I’ve got things narrowed down to two machines and am hoping you can help me decide. Either the Profitec Go or the Breville dual boiler. I really like the German/ Italian influence of the Go but also really like the dual boiler of the Breville. Any suggestions??
Thanks for your comment! 🙌
With the Breville ask yourself this: Would I be majorly disappointed if this machine only lasts for 3 years and would I be willing to pull it apart to fix it?
The Profitec is the better quality by far, but the Breville will give you ease of use on day one but it's a gamble on how long it will last and they are fiddly and time consuming but cheap to fix if you can do it yourself.
The Profitec is packed full of features and the PID will help massively with consistent shots, but a thing to consider with the GO is that if you're making more than one coffee at a time you have to switch back and forth between shot and steam which can slow down your workflow. However, it's probably going to hold value way more than the Breville long term and if you decide to upgrade in less than 5 years you'll get some money back for it, whereas you might just end up throwing out the Breville.
Tough decision but either way, on day one I think each one will make you very happy!
Great video! I've learned quite a bit myself and had already settled on the Ascaso Steel Duo Pid. Looks the best in its price range and also seems to be the best for me. Just need to save for a month or two.....
Thanks! Yes I believe in the Ascaso although I've gotten a bit of flack for saying its good. There are a lot of people who have had negative experiences with them and granted, they were not great back in the early 2000s, but they've worked hard to fix those. But let me know how you go!
I have Jura Z10 fully automatic, but looking for something more advanced coffee machine from prosumer market. May someone recommend some good options? I'm looking for advance model for home that still easy to use and preferable the machine that will not need so long time to heat up.
Profitec pro 300D or Lelit Elizabeth? I don’t like where the switches are placed on the profitec on the bottom, unless water can’t from the boiler and steam wand cant get inside.
Hi Coach - I am hearing that some people are likening the Ascaso Steel Duo to the Breville dual boiler? What would you say to that? Also - whilst I'm hear do you have a view on the bellezza bellona machine?
I love this video, thank you Ryd! As a former barista I was looking for anything that could bring a quality espresso to my home. With a la marzocco being much too expensive but filmy plastic machines not offering the same reliability or quality, this video introduced me to some amazing machines!
So glad I could help you, Britt! Yeh there are some great little machines out there and if you have barista experience you can really get awesome results. Let us know how you go with your choice.
Great video Ryd. I am fairly new to this and am looking to upgrade from my Breville Oracle as i am struggling with the inconsistent quality of espresso as well as the steam wand is not the best. Quick question for you (& others), are there any places in Melbourne that do home barista training sessions? Being new to this and a home enthusiast, I am keen to further my skills and learn what i am doing wrong in a hands on environment rather than just trying to figure it out via TH-cam training. Appreciate any suggestions. I feel I need this before making a decision on which way on how to spend my $3K budget (ie E61 or not).
Thanks Ash! Yeh there's quite a few places around Melbourne that you'll be able to upskill. But five senses training will be my preference down there g.co/kgs/fJjZDU
And then go see Coffee Machine Technologies at Lygon street in Carlton and tell them I sent you from TH-cam and they will look after you (I don't get anything in return btw) coffeemachinetechnologies.com.au/contact-us/#carlton
Also, don't forget to budget for a grinder (Eureka mignon or Fellow Opus when it comes out). Stick to the coffee machine brands I mentioned though. All the best! 👌
Your thaugths on the Quickmill Sunny? Thermoblock for coffee combined with a boiler for steam and pressure profiling option...
Yes great question! I actually don't have a lot of experience with Quick Mill but they look nice and by all accounts seem like a reliable Italian brand that's been around for 70+ years. Next year I'll try and get my hands on them more and give them a proper review. But if you're looking at one, I think they should go fine. 🙌
Looking at the Profitec 600 for my first🤷🏽♂️ way cool🤙🏽
You'll love it! 🙌🙌
What do you think between the Profitec Pro 300 and the Ascaso Steel DUO PID?
Nowadays, I wouldn't buy anything without PID Brew temperature control. Warm up time may be important to know ("Can I wait 15 min for the HX/E-61 to and group head to come up to temp.", "Can I get pre-infusion from a non-plumbed E61 machine?" (
I'm looking at the Lelit Grace and the Crossland CC1v2 at the moment, with a sidewards glance towards the Victoria as well.
What's your take on the Crossland?
I've never got hold of a Crossland, I'm not sure if they sell them in Australia actually. Lelit are always good, I would get the Victoria over the Grace because the size of the portafilter is 58mm and that's the standard size and makes it much easier to buy accessories for (precision baskets, tampers, distribution tools etc)
Hi Ryd, yes here in Canada as well the Breville Dual Boiler is exorbitantly overpriced. It's going for CAD $2,400 equivalent to AUS $2,600.
Thanks for the great content.
Crazy! I just don't get it. It's one of the best cheap machines here (short term at least) why do they price themselves out of the market elsewhere? It's no way worth it compared to what that money can get.
The Appartmento in the states is about $1800, and the Rancilio is more pricy. So Lelit Victoria, Profitec Go/300/500, Rocket Appartmento, Rancilio Pro X. Here is where we need a diagram of what the internals are. Who has a copper or SSteel boiler, who is using the Gicard controller or not, Who is including a group head temp ? And such nice details like the Profitec ability to turn off the steam boiler, as 80+% many of us just do an espresso in the AM. Maybe knowing which is vibration pump or is isolated quiet vs a rotary? You did miss the Astoria, like Gloria, and you also missed Nuovo Simoneli Oscar and Musica, and you might have covered maybe some that are more found on 2nd hand markets like Pasquinni, or Livia 90, and what pitfalls they may have vs newer machines. Also, I see DeLonghi being talked about like Breville, and why these machines are temporary stepping stones to a good machine.
Dear Ryd, Thank you so much for the Video. I know, all of us asking you for advice, what to buy and this is of course, because you have such an incredible overview about those machines. Okay, here it comes (once again). ;)
I started (like probably many of us) with the DeLonghi Dedica EC685 (and the Mignon Specialita Grinder).
I only drink Espresso (probably 1-2 per day, only, no milk steaming needed) and I am looking for the next big step.
Some machines are come closer for the decision to buy:
- Ascaso Dream PID
- Profitec Go 100 PID
- ECM Puristika/Classika
- Quickmill Orione 3000
- Lilit Grace/Anna
Can you maybe say something about the shot-quality of Ascaso Dream and Profitec Go 100. The price-differences are huge, but maybe it is worth it.
I really would like your opinion and this will probably support my decision-making process. ;)
Thanks a lot! Phillip :)
Hey Phillip! Sorry for the delayed response.
If you're only drinking black coffee and you never need the steam wand it might be worthwhile looking into the Flair 58 electric or a La Pavoni lever. These will produce amazing espressos and don't cost a bunch. If you don't like the idea of manually extracting your coffee you should look into the Meticulous espresso machine. It's still in Kickstarter but it looks like it will be a game changer!
If it's between Profitec and Ascaso, I'd always go Profitec. 👌
@@Rydecoffeecoach Thanks a bunch. I will look into it. :)
We have an ECM technika in work. The place runs 24/7 365. The reliability is unreal. That machine takes a flogging. Ive been there since 2016 and its been out of service once that im aware of.
That is incredible! Yeh ECM and Profitec (essentially the same company) is definitely great quality.
Silvia Pro X dollar for dollar seems to be a great machine. Its 1k+ less than most dual boilers. And you give up a rotary pump and polished stainless. Not a bad deal
Does not have a rotary pump
Looking for suggestions. I personally like the Ascaso Steel Duo as well as the ECM Synchronika. Money aside is there a reason to not get one over the other?
On looks alone I love the Ascaso but for reliability and quality of build I would choose ECM everyday. It's just not as sexy looking but if Money isn't an issue, you can get it customised with powdercoated panels and timber accents and then it's ECM everyday of the week!
I'm learning and new but I know profitec go is PID at least us version and I'm leaning towards that one
It's a great little machine. I love the fact it comes in lots of different colours too, because the stainless steel is getting a little old now.
Really struggling to decide between Profitec 400, Lelit Mara X, and Rocket Apartamento… I think both profitec and lelit have newer features than Apartamento although I love the look of the Rocket the best and the build of profitec seems extremely high quality. I know a few people who love their lelit though very much…
I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. They are all solid machines. Go with the one you are going to love the look of on your bench top and the features you are going to use the most. 👌
If i were you . I would have gone with Rocket... Lelit mara x feet are flimsy . Its drip tray is also difficult to take out and fix back
Thanks for this information, really useful!
I just got to offers and I want to read your opinion. I'm having a deal fot the La Pavoni Cellini Classic Cilindro Grinder at the same price that a Rancilio Silvia Pro X + Sage Smart Pro.
I like a lot the features on the Rancilio but a better Grinder can help me more.
Can you help me with this difficult decision?
Hmmm tough decision. It comes down to personal preference, but if it was me, I'd be buying the Silvia pro X and then seeing if you can stretch your budget for a Fellow Opus or the new baratza Espresso grinder (or even the new Timemore 64mm espresso grinder that's on Kickstarter and due to arrive in June. )
The sage grinder is fine anyway but if you can stretch the budget just a bit more I think you'll be completely set up🙌🙌👌
Thanks for the vid mate, I’m in the market for something in this price range. I was told to get a Wega W Mini - do you know that one?
Oh yeh the Wega's are a great workhorse machine. They aren't the most advanced machines but I have worked on Wega's for many years and they rarely fail. Definitely can't go wrong with the Mini.
Hi Ryde, I have had a UK made Fracino Cherub for the last 19 years that never made me a proper shot of espresso and brought unit back to the guy I got it from and serviced and cleaned and all multiple times and still same and he fobbed me off with crema isnt everything answer ??, So had enough and want to buy new one price no problem but confused with
different machines Profitec, ECM, Rocket, Nuovo Simonelli Musica Lux, Bellezza, Bezzara, and Vibbieme, Expobar and Lelit, and different ranges from €1250 to €4000 and more in all stages so if you can narrow down to best choices would help much, Thanks, Mike
Love your videos! Great information.
Open Question, Advice wanted:
Looking to buy 1st Home Espresso Maker and Grinder. Will be used everyday a few times a day. Wanted to stick with Italian Made if possible. Budget $3000 US Dollars Max / wanted to spend less if I can. Hoping it lasts many years and looks good too. Single Boiler? Heat Exchange? Double Boiler?
Rocket? Rancilio? San Remo Cube? Lelit? Gaggia? Any other brands to consider? Where to buy?
Thanks so much all! Appreciate the help!
This is (unfortunately) the million dollar question. It comes down to so many factors. What is important to you? Looks? Convenience/ease of use? Features that let you explore coffee even further?
The grinder is more important to your overall quality of coffee so I would definitely start there: Look at Eureka Mignon (something like a Silenzio is a good start) or if you have the budget, the Timemore Sculptor 78s
Then look at you remaining budget.
Profitec Go is great little cheaper machine that will last a long time, has some good basic features to help with consistency, is convenient and can match your kitchen colours.
If I was starting out and had your budget, thats where I'd go and still have some change left over. These should last you 15+ years or until you decide to upgrade.
A Breville Dual Boiler is about 2700 AUD in the US. If I had one shipped to me it would be the wrong voltage.
Yeh I underestimated how badly Breville would rip off the US market. I thought the US would be much cheaper since everything else always is purely due to the size of the market vs Aus.
Good evening!What do you recommend me to buy: Profitec go vs Lelit PL91T victoria?
Ooh tough choice! I love both and they both have similar functions. I prefer the look and feel of the GO and so I personally lean towards that but I'm sure you'll be happy with either! 👌
Hello form Quebec, Canada. I find you videos very informative, thank you. I was wondering what you think about the BELLUCCI ARTISTA.
Hi there! 🙌 Yes these machines are great too. Love the extra gauge on the brew head to give you much more information about your extraction pressure.
Rancilio Silvia is excellent, but needs temperature surfing or a PID for consistently good results.
PS My spontaneous answer to your opening question "which machine to buy" was "all of them"... mmm.
😂😂 yes, I don't think you can ever have enough 😉 like a garage full of cars, except you use them all the time!
Ryd, you mentioned not leaving beans in the hopper (especially overnight). Does this include fully-automatic machines like the Delonghi Prima Donna Elite? Can you let the machine grind the beans for each dose?
Interesting point! I would probably still take them out overnight if it's not too hard. I don't think single dosing is practical but maybe you can just put enough in there for the day? It's just overtime, the coffee will develop faster in the hopper as they aren't perfectly sealed.
Thanks @@Rydecoffeecoach I’ll do that in future. I’m getting mine serviced as the grinder needed replacing. I appreciate the quick reply. Great channel!
Any chance of giving a hint on the 3k-6k range? Im new to the espresso game but Im thinking of a Profitec 500 or Lelit Bianca with an Oro grinder.
Got a 3-6k video coming out soon 👍
But to give you a teaser I do look at Profitec so if you're considering one it's a great machine, great quality. Just choose the features and design you want and go for it. The Lelits are also great machines but in my opinion not as beautiful as some of the other machines in this range. I also look at Decent which just falls under the $6k budget.
@@Rydecoffeecoach In context, my wife loves espressos while I love the sweet lattes and both of us would probably drink 2-4 drinks a day. To me, that would mean dual boiler w/ PID. Profitec 600 ($2400 USD) checks those boxes (I said 500 previously but I typo'd that one) but I really dont care about the classic look of an espresso machine in which a decent DE1PRO ($3500 USD) is more my style. (Me being a computer geek type.) This would be my first espresso machine but I strongly believe in buy once cry once and let me skill of lattes/espressos raise up to a machine and not upgrade it when my skill level grows. Would you still recommend a Decent DE1PRO ($3500) over the Profitec 600 ($2400 usd) or something comparable?
Btw... tyvm for the reply. Very much appreciated!
Hi Ryd, Awesome video. Do you have a video on fully automated machines? Our Jura eva5 after 14 years old is starting to slow down. Have been looking at Phillips 5400 and Gaggia Magenta Prestige. They are similar in prices and tech. Just wondering if you have looked into these 2 machines. Value your feedback.
Hey there! Thanks for reaching out. I would definitely go Gaggia over the Phillips, Gaggia is a fantastic espresso machine manufacturer and while I don't have as much experience with fully automatics I would trust Gaggia. But also, why not stick with Jura? They make excellent fully automatics and you've already had one last 14 years which is amazing for these machines.
@@Rydecoffeecoach The Jura or Saeco model that does what Gaggia and Phillips does is out of my price range and I am looking for something compact too. The Gaggia Magenta is a good size similar to the Jura I have now. The phillips 5400 is little bigger.
If I could ask another question. I don't know your background and if you can answer. I think I have decided in the Profitec Go. From what I have read online, in the US it is priced the same as the Casa V. I am in Sydney. you have the Australia prices in the video. The difference in price is actually $540. Can we expect the price to drop within this year?
I might be wrong with the pricing as I just grab them off different websites so some might have been on special. I would look for the best deal but I doubt the prices will come down at all unless it's a sale or something.
@@Rydecoffeecoach Ok thank you. That is what I thought.
For the Money the Victoria has features which even more expensive Machine don't have
I was choosing a coffee machine with the budget of 1-3k AUD. I just want a cost effective machine that makes 3 cups of latte a day. Breville Dual Boiler is no brainer at price of $950 AUD. The cheapest Italian dual boiler is Lelit Elizabeth at $2550AUD, that is almost 3 times of the Breville dual boiler. In 15 years of time, I can replace the Breville 3 times and still ahead of Italian machines, if taking Italian machine servicing cost into consideration. I will be using
Yep, the Breville DB is great for that exact reason. You just have to temper your expectations about the lifetime of it. Some will last 5 others will go in 3. But if you are handy you can actually replace the orings yourself, it just takes patience and time.
@@Rydecoffeecoach I think perceived short life-span of Breville has something to do with demographic of its owners. I.e. Breville knows its customers so well that she puts notice “no milk into water container” on water-filling port. With this type of customers, the machine will have a tough life which means tap water, receive no service, no maintain, run to the ground. Italian machines wouldn’t have much longer life in the hands of these customers. On the other hand, I look after my machine. Last machine is $200 Chinese thermal block no-name machine for 8 years. Getting replaced because multiple seals went bad and no replacement part available. I believe Breville will last many years with its better spare part availability.
Where do you find out the dual boiler at 950 ?
Dans ces prix il y a aussi la nuova simonelli MOOD. qu'en pense tu? Comparer a la Elisabeth et ascaso steel duo pid ??
Lelit Elizabeth would be the best of those.
Can you comment on the Lilet Marra X?
I can do you one better! 🙌☺️
th-cam.com/video/ULIick8O-Fk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=CP-LQRNZNvBKilWZ
Hello!
Thanks for your great videos.
I want an espresso machine for a small cafeteria, under $1500, that can make 60-100 cups a day and doesn't weigh too much.
What would you recommend me?
Honestly, any of the single group machines will probably be very frustrating to try and make 100 coffees on.
The best thing you could try is a 2 group Wega Atlas. They are cheap (even cheaper second hand) and reliable well built machines.
I just don't think home machines are good in this area and even the ones that are $5k+ still only have a single group and you'll want to have the ability to do 4 shots a minute if you need.
How important is it to have a PID? Is there a workaround? I am looking at the ECM Casa V.
Back in the day before we had PIDs, I just used to flush the group head until the boiling water dissipated and then run my shots. It's definitely doable without a PID but you'll need to learn to temp surf your machine so your shots are consistent. The PID just makes the temperature much more stable and means your shots will be way more consistent.
@@Rydecoffeecoach Thank you for your response. I am very much ignorant of all this and I think I will go with a PID but if I could ask; without a PID, this temp surfing, are really just experimenting to determine the right time to pull a shot? Meaning, we are measuring the water temp with a thermometer. Flushing the group head, in order to add cold water from the tank, in order to reduce the temp if it is too hot, or just waiting until the machine increases the temp, if it is too cold? I saw a thermometer strip on the group head, on one video. I was thinking, that the goal of this type of experimentation, is to determine what temp you need on the group head, to equal the right water temp?
Awesome video! So informative, thank you!
Any chance you know which machine is shown in the picture when you begin talking about E61 machines? Around 06:32 ?
Thank you! Yes it's a Belleza Inizio, I'm fairly sure. I don't know a lot about the machine other than its German engineering (moved to Italy when they joined the VEA group).
Great video! I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a quick mill Pippa or pegaso. Would love to know what you think of this brand.☺️
Quick Mill are a great Italian brand too that's been around 75 years so definitely worth it. 👌
What would you recommend between the profitec 500 or 600 and the silvia pro x?
Profitec Pro 600
@@shotowong8866 what about lelit bianca v3?
I really like the profitec pro 600, its only a little more than the 500 but you get the temp stability of dual boilers. With the E61 machines the only thing that holds me back is heat up time.
Honestly if it wasnt the pro500 or 600 i think i would go with the BDB.
I dont know man. I cant decide. Going back and forth alot... i need to pull the trigger on one already.
I entertain family alot and need to be able to make back to back drinks as well as my daily fix..
Help me out bro...lol
Ok you'll never regret buying the Profitec Pro 600, it's an amazing machine and will last you 15+ years. Heat up time is only about 10 mins so isn't bad really. It looks beautiful and you can always get it pimped out with timber handles and knobs. If you're into the pressure profiling you can add that too for a bit extra.
The BDB is the quick and nasty best machine. You'll make amazing coffees quickly and easily...until you can't. It fails in a snap 🫰 (hopefully you get 5 years out of it, I've had many fail within 3). If you're in Australia it's cheap, everywhere overseas seems to be ridiculously expensive and I don't recommend it there.
Remember you also need to budget for a grinder and if you're getting a Profitec then a good sidekick is the Eureka Mignon Silenzio or one from their range.
Hope this helps. 👌
@@Rydecoffeecoach thank bro, ya it helps. The bdb is expensive here in the U.S for what it is I think.
@@ShrednESP, what did you buy in the end?
Anna costs 370€ in Greece
Grace 600-700€
Victoria 850€
Mara X 1300€
Elizabeth 1300€
Bianca 2400€
Thanks for sharing! That's even cheaper than Australia making Lelit a great option for under $1k too.
@@Rydecoffeecoach yes it's vfm in Europe ... I got lelit Mara x from a German site for 950€ .
Logistics and taxes made prices extremely unstable worldwide...
@@user-gi1rf8ij2shey! What site did you use? 😊
Wait, Profitec Go in coral red, mustard, or baby blue match your kitchen? Not unless you live in Miami's Architectural District. But great rundown. I went with the Casa V as an upgrade from my 18 year old Silvia. Casa V has all a ton of small, meaningful upgrades from Silvia which wrote the book on home espresso. But it still manages to keep it simple, avoiding the unnecessary PID, programmable preinfusion, and a screen. Those things just say, "I'm a nerd, and I don't trust my instincts to brew great espresso without a computer to time my shots" Haha, that's my take anyway. Show me a machine with nothing but AC high voltage wiring, and I'll show you one that will be reliable a lot longer. Just sold my aging Silvia on to someone getting into nerding out on expresso with their first serious machine. Try that with an 18 year old Breville with a built in robotamper.
😅 maybe I'll build a baby Blue kitchen and have one of the Coral Go to contrast. 🤣 It'll be a conversation starter at the very least.
18 years is amazing! You must feel like a proud parent seeing it go off to it's next family. The people that say that Brevilles last are of their heads.
"High school kids doing a research paper..." If only!!😂
What do you think about la pavoni expo 2015 ?
Yeh it's a great lever machine and I love the classic design. I'm not a huge lever expert but everyone loves them. 👌 I've got a video coming up about it in the next couple of weeks.
Good morning from Scotland
I had a Sage Oracle some years ago, I paid £1500, don’t know what that is in AU dollars. It was replaced by Sage after a year, it kept tripping my power every time I went to descale it, Sage asked me to have my socket checked, which I did by a qualified electrician, it was the machine that was faulty. I eventually upgraded to a La Marzocco Linea Mini, biggest mistake I have ever made, I have owned it for 20 months, sadly out of the 20 months it has been broken down for 4 of these months. It has had a new board put in, temperature censor fitted also and an engineer out at my home to fix it also. Sadly on Christmas Eve morning (last week) it put all my power off in the house, checked trip switches, sure enough it was the machine socket, machine won’t heat up at all. La Marzocco closed till the 9th of January, by the time it’s all fixed out by La Marzocco, I’m expecting the machine to be away till at least February!, worst machine I have ever owned.
Thank you for the great video, hope you have a very Happy New Year.
Kind regards from Scotland
Johnny
Hey Johnny! Thanks for sharing. Yeh the Oracle is not a good machine despite the price. I also never loved the built in grinder which causes a lot of headaches (including tripping). I think the experience with LM is really unfortunate but I do hope it's just a one off fault.
I would seriously ask for a partial refund and demand the LM linea Micra which is cheaper and looks better for the most part.
Good luck! Let me know how you fare.
@@Rydecoffeecoach Thank you for your kind words, I am going to seek legal advice on Friday of this week to see how I stand with this machine. According to a friend who has a business, I should be asking for a replacement machine, probably by the time this is all sorted out, that will be about 5 months in my 20 month ownership that the machine has been unusable.
Kind regards,
Johnny
P.S. I will let you know how I get on with LM.
@@Rydecoffeecoach good evening Ryd, you asked me to let you know the outcome of my problematic Linea Mini. I have been given a brand new black Linea Mini, it arrived today, I really can’t believe the difference in the noise when I brew a coffee. My other machine was very loud when you flicked the paddle over, geez this one is so quiet, can’t believe the quietness in the new machine, just got my faulty machine to pack up tomorrow, LM arranging a courier for the uplift.
Thank you so much for your advice, I really mean that Ryd.
Kind regards from Scotland 🏴,
Johnny
Hey Ryd, Rancilio Pro X or Rocket espresso Giotto timer Evolucione R
This is my next level machine and I want for a long period
$1940 x $2850 worth extra money?
Also I have a Longom mini coffee Grinder
Oooh such a tough one. Firstly, you won't be disappointed with either machine and they both will last a lifetime. The Dual boiler.on the Rancilio X is super nice, however for looks I do love the Rockets but you do pay more for the name.
Also, not to make it harder but I have fallen in love with the Lelit Bianca with pressure profiling and timber finishes. For its price it's the best bang for buck and a great machine. The Profitec 500 e61 and the 600 dual boiler are also worth considering.
At the end of the day, it's personal preference and features that YOU are going to want. All of these machines are great and you can go wrong with any of them. 🤗👌
Hi Ryd. Is it possible for you to review some of the fully automatic coffee machines including the Jura s8 and z10 on the variety and quality of the coffees they produce and how often they need to be cleaned and the cost of the cleaning products required for cleaning.
Merry Christmas.
Regards
Steve
I will try to do some next year but the automatics aren't my specialty so I'll have to do some research and get my hands on some of them.
I still don’t understand the difference between E61 compared to the simpler versions . I a, more interested about the quality of the coffee …does a normal espresso machine cost 1000 euros can give me the same quality like a more expensive one ?
E61 is just a very popular design that's still being used 60years later. It accidentally introduced preinfusion because of the lever too which is a bit of fun.
But to answer your question about quality of coffee, if your beans are high grade specialty coffee and you've got a great grinder (more important than the machine), then your €1000 machine will be excellent for coffee. The benefits you get from more expensive machines are: great control over your extraction, other features like PID, convenient functions, profiling, data analysis, easier and better milk, durability, easier to make coffee, better tasting coffee consistently etc.
I can make awesome coffee from a $50 machine if I can use a great grinder and excellent coffee beans.
Ascaso Steel Duo PID Coffee Machine vs Profitec 300 or 400 all seem within about 100$ AUD of each other. Which would you do? Have watched this video a few times and struggling to decide between them? Cheers
Dave
Its so tough isnt it, Dave?!
Know that whatever you decide you'll be happy. My personal choice would be the Profitec 400 just because its such good engineering so its going to last and be reliable forever. The Ascaso is the most beautiful of them all (I am over chrome machines these days) but I keep hearing people getting lemons even though they fixed their tech a few years back.
Good luck with your decision!
@@Rydecoffeecoach Thanks Ryd - appreciate the quick reply. 😃
Im stuck trying to choose a machine, my budget is between 1500 aud to 2000 so I don’t know which one is can drop the best shots
Do you have a grinder already? If not, that should be a big consideration. The better the grinder the better your coffee, most machines are good enough to make great coffee but if you don't get a decent grinder you can't fix a bad coffee machine.
If 1-2k is machine budget I would definitely consider a Lelit Victoria or Profitec Go, or La Pavoni (new ones drop in December and should be just under $2k).
@@Rydecoffeecoach I have the Rancilio Rocky grinder, do you think is worth to wait for the new la pavoni ?
Thank you for this video.
What would you recommend in terms of price / performance?
In Germany the profitec pro 600 is about 1850€, lelit bianca v3 2000€ and the rocket Appartamento 1250€.
US Dollars / Euro are quite the same. Thank you!!!
I'd probably choose the Bianca for the extra $200. It is packed with everything: Dual boiler, profiling the works! 👌
It seems the price of the Sage/Breville Dual Boiler is unique to Australia and not the other way around.
So strange! It should be relatively priced all around the world.
@@Rydecoffeecoach They're an Australian brand though aren't they? I wonder if that plays into the international pricing?
the rancilio pro / x have cool touch wands? are you sure about that?
No sorry, I must have said it without thinking. It's wrong, no cool touch wands there sorry.
@@Rydecoffeecoach no worries, mate. Do you know if someone sells after market cool touch wands for the Rancilio? that would also be an idea for a vid. What can you do to a rancilio to really pimp it out ^^
Correct. No 'cool touch' wands at the Rancilios. But then: Not necessary and maybe not even wanted.
I strongly prefer this great steam wand of the Pro X to any of the 'poor man's no-burn' wands with an inner teflon tube. Couple of reasons (see elsewhere)
@@user-ns4em5sk9b i bought the rancilio x pro and i am super happy with it. and yes if i can avoid teflon i will. i have not burned myself once so far and i dont see it happaning as long as i dont act stupid
Why u did not mention VBM ?
Yep VBM is another good manufacturer. I had to skip over a lot of Italian e61 manufacturers just because they are all pretty reliable and it comes down to personal preference. But yes, thanks for pointing VBM out too. 👌
dear guru, I’ve got a small,
Food and treats. We want to sell upto to 500-100 cups a day. What do you recommend? Under 1000 dollars
作为兰奇里奥silvia pro x中国总代，感谢分享，非常全面~
This is our second K-Classic. We had our first one for many years, so when we had to replace it, we wanted nothing else but this exact th-cam.com/users/postUgkxBrV-RbF5Nk0Rlt9i15aao-YMzqzTG8Vf model. We use it for about three people everyday in the morning. The taste and quick brew is one of the reasons we like it so much. There are so many choices of brands of coffee that we would grab what was on sale and test the different brands from there. I would definitely recommend trying different brands of coffee to find the ones you like the most because there are brands that quite frankly taste horrible.
What about Profitec Go?
Yeh definitely. I thought I had included it. But it might have been left off the list.
Interesting watch thanks. With the Porfitec and ECM comments totally agree. Superbly built machines. I would tend to choose the ECM over the Profitec for fit and finish. The ECM is the slightly more premium one over the Profitec slightly modern tech. Having looked at nearly all the range between Lelit Mara X, Profitec P400 and 500 PID, and various ECM and Rocket Apartamento TCA… the one I chose was the ECM Mechanika Slim VI Heritage. Partly on looks, partly,on the build quality but mostly for the super reliable and strong performing E61 which does have a three way PID. I really struggle to see why anyone likes the Rancilio options… they don’t look or feel anything like the ECM, Profitec, or Rocket options
Great insight, thanks for adding! Yeh I think the ECMs beat the Rancilio but I still have a love for them and people just love the look too.
Do we understand that we are talking about 300% price range difference? For me it sounds like do I want 3 units of $1000 machine or 1 for $3000.
You can't really look at it like that. Like cars, you need to work out what functions are most important to you and then look at other factors like design, reliability, footprint, power consumption. These all range in price and so getting 3 machines for $1k that don't let you do preinfusion or don't let you do milk and extractions simultaneously, or only last 2 years, won't work.
Never buy or recommend an E61 machine without a grouphead thermometer.
Temperatur stability is always an issue here, especially (but not only) on HX (heat exchanger) models.
I don't see why anybody in 2023 would want to buy into that hassle besides for visual appearance. But to each his own (pain or joy)😀
Perhaps. I used to temp surf all the time when I was younger (and PIDs didn't exist for coffee machines). It's not really the worst to have but I do get your point of view. 👌
Lelit Victoria vs Profitec GO?
Tough one! I think the Go edges out the Lelit in this case. But mainly for design and the Eco mode. I prefer powder coating over chrome.
❤
A lot of confusing information when you talked about ECM and Profitec. You mentioned Profitec focuses on dual boilers while ECM focuses on E61... but that statement doesn't make any sense. For starters, both brands offer plenty of E61 grouphead models as well as dual boiler models. But beyond that, E61 is a style of grouphead whereas "dual boiler" refers to the type of heating element for the water. E61 groupheads are compatible with dual boilers (as well as heat exchangers and single boilers), so I'm not sure what you were trying to say there.
You also cited the Profitec Pro 300 as an E61 model, but even in the photo you provided, the 300 clearly does not use an E61 grouphead. AFAIK the Profitec Pro 400 model is the cheapest Profitec model offering an E61 grouphead.
Yeh you're right and I appreciate your comment. I tried to cover too much in the one section and was just trying to help people distinguish between the brands but I think from recording to editing it got lost. I probably just rushed it but Im about to make a new video series for machines, so I'll fix it in that. 👌
Hi mate, I buy an Sage Bambino plus for 250 euro and change my 7 years old Saeco Poemia 😁
Wow! 7 years is a great life for the Saeco machines. I'm not sure there are many stories like that though. Traditionally, they last only 2-3 years. Maybe 5 if you're lucky. (7 if you're extremely lucky! 😂)
@@Rydecoffeecoach Yes. Many great stories. I start using pre ground coffee and I finish with a nice manual grinder and using fresh beans.
For info. Got expobar office leva. 4 years in , been re built twice, I mean almost every component. Finicky if you know your coffee. No one can even talk to the a...e where got it from. Well known fact. Over heats from day 1. The cup tray is too hot to touch right now. 3rd pressure stat in lowest setting n still at 1.3 n climing. Disave charged me shipping there n shipping return, with a bonus egregious arrogance. Now decided on tbe apartmento which was the other choice es at thetime I got this piece of utter rubbish.
Then again the viviem domobar junior looks good too. Anything other tban expoobar.
Thanks for sharing your experience! 👌
appartamento for 3k AUD? that only costs 1.6k USD in the US. The appartamento is off the table.
How is it that the prices vary so drastically? I'm sure it's all about marketing and what machines sell the most in each country. I still think the Rocket is value at $3k but if you can get it for $1.6usd then it's even better value!
@@Rydecoffeecoach I got profitec pro 400 for 1.6k USD. I think it has more control over the coffee. The preset temperature and pressure in Appartamento is not accurate. I try to convince people leave Appartamento
ECM classic & Profitec Pro 300 are not similar in price in Mar 2023 now. ECM for $2300 AUD and the Pro 300 for $2900
Thanks for that. It does make it harder to justify the Profitec.
Very different machines though. Pro 300 is dual boiler, ECM Classik is single boiler. Pro 300 is not an E61 group either, so heats up 2-3 times faster
Quite some mistakes in this video. Like, the Po 300 for sure not a E61 brew head.
I’m glad it wasn’t just me lol when the pro600 picture came up as a heat exchanger I had to stop the video
Up to 3k? Buy a Decent DE1 Pro. The rest are mere toys in comparison.
Ranchilio 6 is the one to buy, all you have to do is buy a PID kit which cost and modify it yourself and it costs ridiculously less than the Silvia Pro X
Why would you buy a pid kit when the Lelit Elizabeth already has that?
@@devotedpickleball Because the Elizabeth is much more expensive?
Pro x any day of the week. Like comparing the bottom of the range car with the top of the range. Sure both will get you to your destination but one has all the bells and whistles and the base model doesn’t. Also the add on pid kits often look horrible and spoil the aesthetic imo. Add to that the pro x dual boiler and pre infusion. It’s a great machine, In fact both are ☺️
I don’t wanna have to modify it
Why, because thats the one you bought? Yea I dont think so.
wow $1000 AUD for BDB is a steal...paid $1500 USD for mine which is $2200 AUD!!!
Yeh that's crazy how different the prices are around the world. Whereabouts are you located?
@@Rydecoffeecoach California USA, I wish we had the same pricing lol
I think you’re better off grinding your teeth on the Gaggia Classic Pro for a couple of years, then graduating up to the Lelit PID Bianca.
Yeh I do agree, however you'd be amazed at how many people want convenience and ease of use over having the steep learning curve to achieve better coffee.
True, especially these days, no Jedi spirit left, The Force is no more... 😁 Thanks for your reply m8 ✌😊 Pierre from 🇨🇦 @@Rydecoffeecoach
@@flyerbluedog we gotta bring back the force! 🔫
Where's the Gaggia Classic! Will last 20 years plus and costs $650 aud!
Yep totally agree! I put the Gaggia classic in my other video of the only machines to buy under $1k. 👌
@@Rydecoffeecoach yeah I just realised that this is over $1k my bad! Keep up the good work mate 🙏
The Ascaso Dream also known as the Ascaso Nightmare. (Because they break down easy)
Yes they had a lot of issues in the early 2000 models but I've been assured that these are fixed in later models (but maybe they aren't...)
@@Rydecoffeecoach
Almost all that are offered second hand have a broken temperature gauge. A friend and espressomachine repair specialist says they are rubbish.
@@Conservator. does your friend have an opinion on the steel duo?
Id to pick the full metal La Pavoni but it treats new owners horribly.
They just got bought by Smeg which gives me some concern about the direction of the company. My experiences with Smeg machines are that they are waaaay expensive and not good. Let's hope they don't crash the brand.
Rancilio Pro models don’t have cool touch wands.
Oh did I say that? Whoops! Mistake sorry. Thanks for pointing that out. 👌👌
Correct. No 'cool touch' wands at the Rancilios. But then: Not necessary and maybe not even wanted.
I strongly prefer this great steam wand of the Pro X to any of the 'poor man's no-burn' wands with an inner teflon tube. Couple of reasons (see elsewhere)
i'll just stick to my stovetop and aeropress.
Nothing wrong with that! 🙌
German precision? I have one antithetical word: Audi. I could add VW, BMW, Mercedes versus Toyota, Honda, etc.
Chrome is much better