I've built a 40% Tesla power wall following these videos and using pulled apart old e-bike battery packs. Most were A-OK with burnt out controllers (brown on PCB backboard). It's set up for 12.6V (3 x 4.2v cells) using a 24V PV setup with a battery controller set to shut off of 12.5v to protect the lithium cells. Has now been running my 5,000L aquaponics setup for three months. 3 cell banks of 120 cells in each are still roughly in balance so no overcharging. Great info.
Good evening Jehu, as an additional level of safety you could possibly house each pack in a sealed battery box, link them together with tubing run to a radiator and use a non conductive cooling fluid (eg 3M Flourinert). This should allow you to maintain the batteries at an optimal temperature and in the event of a thermal runaway within a cell it should hopefully prevent it spreading to other cells within the pack.
That was another great video to watch ......I bought a electric car back in 2011 and I also own a newer Miata with 10 k miles on it ......I enjoy driving my E-Car so much that my Miata just sits in the garage, it has not been started in 2 years ;-( I would love to change it into a E-car .......Each time I watch your video's one side of my Brain says do it, the other side says wait, the tug of war gives me a head ache ...... Thanks for your great video's I learn a lot from them ........
A Miata is a good choice for a conversion because they are light and aerodynamic. EVWest even has a full kit they say can be done in a weekend or two. I've been eyeing their VW Bug kit, though I would of course use 18650 batteries Jehu style.
Bradah, You are so smart. Happy to see people like you at work... I have a 1972 Jimmy, lets convert it!!! I know, to heavy and I live in Maui. Elevation climb up the mountain would lose too much battery. LOL Maybe some day... Mahalo for you hard work and sharing. Aloha, Maui Side
I’ve learned a lot from your channel. It sparked my interest in solar and other ideas. It Probably takes more time but I really wish you would show your set up What your using how you set it up briefly. How you are testing current and voltage . What size or gauge fuse wire. Links to making the battery pack and bus wire Connections. That way we can test ourselves and branch of from there if we choose. Just a newbie opinion. Awesome ideas! Thank you for all the information so far!
Funny watching these old videos and comparing to your later videos and how much more comfortable you are speaking on camera. Also tha hiss in the background is now gone. And the Samba is well past the 100 mile mark. Keep up the good work.
Jehu...after watching last weeks video ,I was very disappointed.I felt like I was watching a reality evtv show with absolutely no direction in sight other than hobnobbing with other people in the EV field ,whom I will not mention at this time. Having said that...Bravo on this weeks show! Sometimes it`s the little discoveries that have biggest impact. Whether or not this was your idea or not (to use small wire as a fuse). You have clearly shown me something of value. and THAT my friends ,is what your videos should be about!!. again bravo!
Thanks Michael, Im not a total sell out just yet, unfortunately I need to figure out how to get this project to pay for itself so I can keep doing it and so I need leverage from more stablished players.
Very nice jehu, if this happens how will Tesla know, coz that isolated cell or module will decrease capacity of Full battery....same goes for our DIY power wall also? Is it to be physically inspected?
Hi Jehu. You sure have my brain spinning! I was always planning to make modules out of A123 26650 cells. But since they were sold to China, I don't trust their cells. Besides there were so many counterfeit sources selling them on Ebay, it just became impractical. So your work on 18650's is very inspiring. The plastic clips are great. Now that I see they cost you .30 each, it seems that machining a plate for each module side might be cheaper. It's ironic that the 1/8 watt resistor leads work so well. They are usually just tin plated copper. I'll measure the diameter and see what AWG they are equal to. I think the bus bar idea is solid. You wrote that you had almost a 50% rejection rate for your cells. I don't know what each pack cost you, but that's a lot of tossed cells. What I'll start doing is draw up in cad a one piece version of a cell holder out of material that is hopefully V0 fire rated. Delrin would be easy. Lexan too. I'll find out the costs. Maybe plywood ;). Have you measured any temperature rise in the cells after a long trip? I'm wondering about fan cooling for the cells. Those resistor leads will handle less amps the hotter they get. I have a spot welder I cannot wait to try and see how the resistor leads handle spot welding to a cell. Although bus bars are outside of my spot welders capability. We'll see. I've been doing EV's for 10 years and think you are doing great work!! I'm glad I found you!
Hi there; I am converting a Ford/Mercury Cougar with good old SLA. Your project is truly inspiring, 40 kwh of light batteries for the same price of my 10 kwh heavy pack! Thanks a lot for sharing, I am going to reconsider my design after watching your work. One of my problems with this kind of design is balancing: as cells came from different origin they will stray away with each charge/discharge. I don't think bottom balancing would work, and top balancing can be tricky which such pack. Lately I am pondering about the possibility of performing bulk charge and afterwards topping the cells with slow individual chargers. There is an RC charger, the BC168 which do that at 8A.
Thanks for the great library of videos, I'm learning a TON! Which episode would you recommend that I watch to see the detailed layout of the batteries and how they are connected. It looks like you are connecting all the cells in each module in parallel and effectively creating a giant 4.2v battery. I assume you then wire the giant 4.2v modules in series to increase the voltage?
That Sanyo 2600mah cell (pink with sky blue ring) charge so hot! I always remove it and let it cool down, then charge it again. it works until it get full without getting hot. I have tons of those
Hi, Your videos are great. I've got everything sorted in my head now I think to produce my powerwall. I have a question on this video though. I'm not sure you ever show it but what is the device you use to apply the load to the battery to test your fuse? I intend to perform a similar test but I'll be using 10A cells I think so doubling up this fuse wire would work out about right. Thanks
What is the maximum amperage rate that you can charge these cells without harming them? You have 150 cells in the module and how long does it take you to charge it? Thanks!
Hi man cool vid! I am wondering.. why do you have fuses on every plus pole? I mean, if you have for example, a pack with 10S20P, than you only need one fuse between all the parallel cells right? Like 20 pcs in this case. Is my thought correct..? I ask because I have weldtabs that fit perfectly between the cells, and I would only be soldering if I really need to..
Jehu love all your videos. Nice work. Question for you, I am upgrading a RV system to the 22s15p 57v Tesla/Smart pack. Looking for BMS or voltage monitoring solution the uses the 20 pin plug on this module. Your thoughts? Thanks Jehu
Mr Garcia, Great work, great concept, thanks for sharing. Question: What actually happens when a cell shorts? Does it have an internal breakdown causing it to discharge it's full 8 watts and thus blow the wire fuse? thanks! Shawn
A shorted cell is a big mystery to me, there are those that say cells can short out either in an open circuit form or a more traditional closed circuit. I have no idea if this theorytical or if this actually happens to batteries every day. but If it does happen and one cell shorts out, it would essentially become a conductor to short out 149 cells and their combined 900+ amps would incenerate said cell in seconds, starting a fire and thus a chain reaction with all adjacent cells.
I very much appreciate your work. Can you tell us how to make these EVs waterproof??Have u encountered the problem before?? Thanks, keep up the work,Vipul
Is the RevElectrics Powerlab your load for the fuse testing? I just looked it up, seems like an awesome tool for building and testing EV cells! Whats the brand and model of the blue charger/balancer?
I'm in the process of building myself a electric scooter. This electric scooter I think MacGyver would be proud of. I'm going to put it together with almost all recycled stuff even the motor. I almost got some motors and the guts of a powerful pro electric forklift for free but I wasn't fast enough on the response to the person that had it. So I decided to do it a different way.
I want to use a powerwall as either a backup to grid power in the event of an outage or a way to store power to take advantages of lower day rates. So my question is, do they make an inverter that will also correctly recharge the powerwall (18650 cells)?? If so can you share a link?
Hey, I watched the most of your videos now! Keep up the good work! It's a nice project! In this episode you explained that you need 4600 cells, wich costs you $1150?! Where did you get these batteries so cheap? I also have a question about the electric motor. As you probably know, the Tesla model S has a 416 hp electric enginge, and contains over 7000 18650 rechargable lithium batteries. The car also weights more then 2000 kilo. Altough the car is pretty heavy, it has a range for about 480km. Does the weight of the car, and the amount of hp effects the battery durability? For example: A car weights about 1000 kilo. (50% lighter then a Tesla Model S) The 200 hp electric engine and 3500 18650 cells are also 50% less then a Tesla model S. Do I still achieve the same range of 480 km (Or something near that)? I'm sorry for my bad English but this is the best way I could describe it. Regards, Herman
Thanks for watching. Im buying cells on ebay, watch Episode #12. Vehicle weight, motor size, driving stile, all that stuff affects life of the batteries. Range is determined by many factors, vehicle weight, aerodynamics, Battery size, system efficiency, and again Driving style. 50% less car with 50% less battery would yield comparable results but only if all other factors are identical.
Mr. Garcia, Thank you for the valuable input. Can I ask for a couple of sources from you, please; Where can I get pre-made S6 charge balancing wires and harness; and what about that black plastic 'carton' to hold the 18650 cells top and bottom? 3D printed? I need that setup for my off-grid solar home.
First of, thank you for all of your videos. It's really been helpful as I'm learning all of this. Now for the questions: 1) You solder your packs, but I've heard that's dangerous to the batteries and you should only spot weld. Is this a real problem, or is it not really an issue? 2) Do you connect up your parallel batteries together first, THEN put those in series, or put a bunch that are in series together in parallel - or does it even matter? Thanks!
Hey Jehu, do you remember what you were using to draw a load from the battery pack across the fuse? In the video, you were able to dial in the max amount of current. I have fuse wire I'm trying to dial in too. Thanks for the help!
how do i know if the wire fuse you used are the right ones for a tesla house battery? didnt you calculate the max 6amp draw for your samba? how would that effect a 12v bank with a 12v inverter? also do i need a special inverter or charge controller? i know this is your samba project but i think your viewer could use a little insight on how to charge and discharge them safely with solar or off grid means. you know what your doing am am hoping for some help. thanks.
I'm building a 36v battery 10s 10p what's gonna happen if I use nickel strips and not fuses, my controller is rated at 23amps max but I may change this to 30amps later, I have been using a 36v 10s 6p bottle battery and so far its been fine since buying new around 12 months ago, charging at 1amp to the full 42v, so really my question is should I use fuse wire and if not what's gonna happen, many thanks Brannen, I will be setting my alarm again for the next live stream being up at 4am in North Devon UK was worth it last time, a great show. I know its not new but getting my questions answered live form, someone, I respect living in California USA still even today, blows my mind.
A question please,great channelbythe way , so the power is carried through these wires to the bus bars it just doesn't look thick enough , great idea if it works, cheers.
great , thanks very much I really appreciate your reply is it just standard fuse wire , I will watch the vid again you might have put a link in , I love lithium ion and animals and ride with my chihuahua's on my electric bike :) , peace and good luck to you
budget minded, or wise/clever with resources. an idea, traction pack level components are $$. for less problem and cost, run a dedicated bank /pack /batt sized for all the "12v" systems (runninglites, cabincomforts, controlheads, etc) charge @48v drop down to 13to14volts. capacity of need for range. (prob been debated elsewhere) bear in mind, engineers have eng.dept budget, expectations, and paycheck. good for them and they deserve it. there is only so many of those positions to go around however. as always, your mileage may vary.
OK, so you wanted to be sure the wire fuse was ample to carry the highest anticipated motor load. But how did you arrive at knowing it was low enough to blow when the cell had a runaway short- how much current does a cell produce when shorted? 5C? cheers!
I've seen 15 amp out of these cells, the idea is that a short would blow the fuse anyway as the power needed to blow it would not be coming out of the shorted cell but into it from all the other 149 cells which are capable of 900+ amps
Hi Jehu, The fusible link works well but doesn't it present a couple other problems. If several cells short and the fuses blows it puts a strain an all the other fuses possibly causing them to all blow even though there isn't anything wrong with the remaining cells. It also means the capacity of that module lessens and it gets charged to a higher voltage when the pack as a whole is charged. So next you need a voltage reporting system for each module but eh, one problem at a time.
Less of a concern if the pack is easy to inspect. In a Tesla that's impossible, but in the eSamba, no prob. The cells in the old gas tank location might be harder to get to, but the ones in the floor will be a breeze to get a quick visual of all fuses. Easier and low cost compared to a real controller that could detect such things--maybe that's what Tesla has?
Yeah, cascade failure is a problem, but I think fusible links is a GREAT final failsafe, but I do think that there needs to be a primary fuse on clusters which SHOULD fail first, and only if it fails, will each cell pack's fusible link fail. The links failing is far better than all the cells going thermal runaway.
i have a question i haven't found an answer ... I am harvesting these laptop batteries for the cells but haven't really decided which particular project so Im basically charging/waiting/Discharging/recharging and getting capacities and voltages ... my question is that Im using 2 different chargers... I have the 1 amp charging circuits that charge to 4.2v so I can mass charge batteries and I also have a B6 AC v2 ( authentic) for charging and discharging... but it only charges batteries to 4.1v ... so now Im not sure which one to use to charge... on the other hand... these 1 amp charging circuits, do they add too much current into the cells? I see some cells 18650 have a max charge rate of .5amps... but then I see allot of people using these 1 amp chargers... ?
It says that he uses legs but that's not economical and a waste of resistors. I wonder if he could use thin gauge nichrome wire or similar. What gauge I wonder.
I know this a video from 2014 and Jehu in other videos says he prefers resistor wires for fuses, but I'm wondering if anyone has successfully used "5 amp fuse wire" as found on Aliexpress?
jehugarcia I tried to join batteries with the solder, but the solder doesn't sticks to the battery. You use some special?? The finish is perfect. Thanks in advance.
Hi I built a 1200 cell using old laptop batterys 20 modules 60 cells. Weighs 70 kilos with casing ectr. Im in the middle of building 20 x balancing circuits for charging in 1 long string 72v pack 84v fully charged. title of video is (how to build 1200 cell lithium battery pack). I bought a cheap spot welder off ebay. around 20,000 spot welds. im hoping to draw 200A without to much voltage sag or fireworks in the back lol. The strip i used to connect the batterys will melt at 10A if cell shorts. Cheers Gary
OK. Thanks. Have you considered actual fuse wire? It expensive, but might fuse quicker? I'm somewhat concerned about a high drain battery that is not completely shorted, but would create a drain on the pack and make a wire hot, but fuse a fuse wire. Just thinking.
HI, the first time I watched one of your videos links popped up for where to get the fuse wire and other components. they stopped popping up. Or am I Imagining it. What is the wire? I'm building a battery for my Farallon MKIII dive scooter. I have 98 cells in 7ea 14cell batteries for 25.9v Just need to get the plastic clips and fuse wire and I can assemble it. Thanks Tomas
+jehugarcia Hey, Thanks a bunch. Really enjoy your videos and projects. I'm really hopeful that the battery i'm putting together makes this old toy new again. Tomas
How did you get so many cheap 18650 cells? I can't find notebook batteries, that are as cheap as 0.25$/cell :/ I really like your work btw :) lg, couka
I know this is old but the cars were originally powered by electric cars... This was before Henry Ford and they were expensive as crazy. Think Tesla roadster price for a base model
4amps? Aren't lithium rated for 30amps? Why not set fuses to the cells max rather than overall system pull? It's less current but don't motors have surges under specific conditions?
Jehu, great video as usual. On average, how much is each cell including plastic holders and stuff costing you? I like your average guy approach to EV building. Keep this up I'll have to donate some cash...
Its hard to say at this time as each cell is costing me about 30 cents, but not all are keepers, Ive currently tested about 500 good cells and 600 cells that did not make the cut, so the cost is higher than 30 cents, the plastic clips are $30 per module so I'm looking at $900 in plastic.
jehugarcia Hey jehu, have a look at fasttech dot com for the plastic holders, if you ask for a quote there are price breaks. I just ordered 100 of the 10packs for $1.56US per pack shipped. If you buy a larger quantity it might go down further. SKU 1290405 I can't comment on the quality yet but I have some on order.
+J House it would increase your distance only a few miles but it would get interesting by bigger stops. 1m² will give you about 100W under perfect circumstances so 3m² would be realistic and that means you get 300 Watts per hour. I would say the samba needs about 10 kWh for rolling around, so you need to be 30 hous under sun to drive around for one hour. xD
ok let me show you what i am talking about. My intention is not to anger anyone. Telsa batt system is supposed to be more efficient which i dont agree with but for sure its a niche, why, the charging and cycling is extremely precise and critical for the life of the battery. The other thing...you used solder to connect those batt , the heat from the iron is going to damage your batts. But you can buy the batts welled for no additional charge in the config you want and use a decent cycler to charge. you can still incorporate the fuse also. in any case thanks for your time.
not really. Architects never build houses. Still because of them there are wonders in this world. I do want you to do it ...all i am saying ,think outside the conventional . Best wishes to you then.
David Hall On the contrary, many architects build houses. Most of them come from construction backgrounds, you can't just consult on a subject matter without actually getting your hands dirty at one time or the other. For example most architects often build their own homes, you only have to look at a show like Grand Designs, or Extreme Homes to see proof. I really admire Jehu and Elon for pursuing their dreams and actually MAKE something. David it seems to me like you think there is a better way, well as the old saying goes.. put up or shut up :) Lets see video proof of your better way.
thankyou for your response at least you do understand somethings. As i said before i am not putting down anyone i was at a wonder as to why they were going the direction they did, but it seem as if they were simply following.Someone gave them a super suggestion and the response to it was what i would characterize as negative main stream. The suggestion would solve they problem and put them on the map at the same time . This is why i dont have to build the house there are building . I am not a follower i would build a different house.
Unfortunately, I am from India and electric vehicles are still a distant dream and only one is available and only one that is available is super expensive to get hold of. I am also looking forward to convert my couple of vehicles to electric, that are typical gasoline/petrol engines, so was curious whether he is using the same transmission/gearbox from his old vw van. Thanks for your reply @Aaron Green, appreciate it.
A question for you. Take a tesla battery pack or just wire 7000 cells., put 1 stick of dynamite on it and run like hell. What is the force of explosion. What is the additive effect on blowing up a lot of amps. I am not a battery fan. They are dangerous as hell. Stuffing amps amps and even more. People here have no idea what 1 grade wire looks like. And why it is used.
I've built a 40% Tesla power wall following these videos and using pulled apart old e-bike battery packs. Most were A-OK with burnt out controllers (brown on PCB backboard). It's set up for 12.6V (3 x 4.2v cells) using a 24V PV setup with a battery controller set to shut off of 12.5v to protect the lithium cells. Has now been running my 5,000L aquaponics setup for three months. 3 cell banks of 120 cells in each are still roughly in balance so no overcharging. Great info.
Good evening Jehu, as an additional level of safety you could possibly house each pack in a sealed battery box, link them together with tubing run to a radiator and use a non conductive cooling fluid (eg 3M Flourinert). This should allow you to maintain the batteries at an optimal temperature and in the event of a thermal runaway within a cell it should hopefully prevent it spreading to other cells within the pack.
That was another great video to watch ......I bought a electric car back in 2011 and I also own a newer Miata with 10 k miles on it ......I enjoy driving my E-Car so much that my Miata just sits in the garage, it has not been started in 2 years ;-( I would love to change it into a E-car .......Each time I watch your video's one side of my Brain says do it, the other side says wait, the tug of war gives me a head ache ...... Thanks for your great video's I learn a lot from them ........
thanks for watching Mark
A Miata is a good choice for a conversion because they are light and aerodynamic. EVWest even has a full kit they say can be done in a weekend or two. I've been eyeing their VW Bug kit, though I would of course use 18650 batteries Jehu style.
Jehu, don't know much about EV's, but thought I would say you are doing a very nice job on your videos documenting your project.
Thanks for watching
Bradah, You are so smart. Happy to see people like you at work...
I have a 1972 Jimmy, lets convert it!!!
I know, to heavy and I live in Maui. Elevation climb up the mountain would lose too much battery. LOL
Maybe some day...
Mahalo for you hard work and sharing.
Aloha,
Maui Side
Maui Side
also reach out to your Hawaii electric car clubs
I’ve learned a lot from your channel. It sparked my interest in solar and other ideas. It
Probably takes more time but I really wish you would show your set up
What your using how you set it up briefly. How you are testing current and voltage . What size or gauge fuse wire. Links to making the battery pack and bus wire
Connections. That way we can test ourselves and branch of from there if we choose. Just a newbie opinion. Awesome ideas! Thank you for all the information so far!
Funny watching these old videos and comparing to your later videos and how much more comfortable you are speaking on camera. Also tha hiss in the background is now gone. And the Samba is well past the 100 mile mark. Keep up the good work.
este video tiene 9 años? joder este tio fue un pionero con las 18650 DIY
Jehu...after watching last weeks video ,I was very disappointed.I felt like I was watching a reality evtv show with absolutely no direction in sight other than hobnobbing with other people in the EV field ,whom I will not mention at this time.
Having said that...Bravo on this weeks show! Sometimes it`s the little discoveries that have biggest impact.
Whether or not this was your idea or not (to use small wire as a fuse). You have clearly shown me something of value. and THAT my friends ,is what your videos should be about!!.
again bravo!
Thanks Michael, Im not a total sell out just yet, unfortunately I need to figure out how to get this project to pay for itself so I can keep doing it and so I need leverage from more stablished players.
Very nice jehu, if this happens how will Tesla know, coz that isolated cell or module will decrease capacity of Full battery....same goes for our DIY power wall also? Is it to be physically inspected?
Thanks. Great video. Is it possible to use this as the battery back up for a solar system?
Hi Jehu. You sure have my brain spinning! I was always planning to make modules out of A123 26650 cells. But since they were sold to China, I don't trust their cells. Besides there were so many counterfeit sources selling them on Ebay, it just became impractical. So your work on 18650's is very inspiring. The plastic clips are great. Now that I see they cost you .30 each, it seems that machining a plate for each module side might be cheaper. It's ironic that the 1/8 watt resistor leads work so well. They are usually just tin plated copper. I'll measure the diameter and see what AWG they are equal to. I think the bus bar idea is solid. You wrote that you had almost a 50% rejection rate for your cells. I don't know what each pack cost you, but that's a lot of tossed cells. What I'll start doing is draw up in cad a one piece version of a cell holder out of material that is hopefully V0 fire rated. Delrin would be easy. Lexan too. I'll find out the costs. Maybe plywood ;). Have you measured any temperature rise in the cells after a long trip? I'm wondering about fan cooling for the cells. Those resistor leads will handle less amps the hotter they get. I have a spot welder I cannot wait to try and see how the resistor leads handle spot welding to a cell. Although bus bars are outside of my spot welders capability. We'll see. I've been doing EV's for 10 years and think you are doing great work!! I'm glad I found you!
I got to say man I love how you started this video
Hi there; I am converting a Ford/Mercury Cougar with good old SLA. Your project is truly inspiring, 40 kwh of light batteries for the same price of my 10 kwh heavy pack!
Thanks a lot for sharing, I am going to reconsider my design after watching your work.
One of my problems with this kind of design is balancing: as cells came from different origin they will stray away with each charge/discharge. I don't think bottom balancing would work, and top balancing can be tricky which such pack.
Lately I am pondering about the possibility of performing bulk charge and afterwards topping the cells with slow individual chargers. There is an RC charger, the BC168 which do that at 8A.
Thanks for the great library of videos, I'm learning a TON!
Which episode would you recommend that I watch to see the detailed layout of the batteries and how they are connected.
It looks like you are connecting all the cells in each module in parallel and effectively creating a giant 4.2v battery.
I assume you then wire the giant 4.2v modules in series to increase the voltage?
That Sanyo 2600mah cell (pink with sky blue ring) charge so hot!
I always remove it and let it cool down, then charge it again. it works until it get full without getting hot.
I have tons of those
Did you bang yet or no?
Very interesting and nice project! I am planning converting my dad's car to EV in the long future haha
Your work gives me good ideas. Thanks!
Hi,
Your videos are great. I've got everything sorted in my head now I think to produce my powerwall. I have a question on this video though. I'm not sure you ever show it but what is the device you use to apply the load to the battery to test your fuse? I intend to perform a similar test but I'll be using 10A cells I think so doubling up this fuse wire would work out about right.
Thanks
What is the maximum amperage rate that you can charge these cells without harming them? You have 150 cells in the module and how long does it take you to charge it?
Thanks!
Tesla charges the 85kwh pack at 135kw, in theory i should be able to charge my 40kwh pack at 70Kw rate
Hi man cool vid! I am wondering.. why do you have fuses on every plus pole? I mean, if you have for example, a pack with 10S20P, than you only need one fuse between all the parallel cells right? Like 20 pcs in this case. Is my thought correct..? I ask because I have weldtabs that fit perfectly between the cells, and I would only be soldering if I really need to..
Jehu
love all your videos. Nice work. Question for you, I am upgrading a RV system to the 22s15p 57v Tesla/Smart pack. Looking for BMS or voltage monitoring solution the uses the 20 pin plug on this module. Your thoughts? Thanks Jehu
nice video, do fuses need to be on the top and bottom of each cell?
Best episode yet!
thanks man
Ive been thinking about building a battery for my car audio needs. Nice video I will be doing some research asap.
Mr Garcia,
Great work, great concept, thanks for sharing. Question: What actually happens when a cell shorts? Does it have an internal breakdown causing it to discharge it's full 8 watts and thus blow the wire fuse?
thanks!
Shawn
A shorted cell is a big mystery to me, there are those that say cells can short out either in an open circuit form or a more traditional closed circuit. I have no idea if this theorytical or if this actually happens to batteries every day.
but If it does happen and one cell shorts out, it would essentially become a conductor to short out 149 cells and their combined 900+ amps would incenerate said cell in seconds, starting a fire and thus a chain reaction with all adjacent cells.
Excellent Ideas to working my dead battery recondition
How would you charge your battery pack from say solar panels or wind turbine? What charge controller would you use?
+omega1gun Sorry Im not familiar with solar charge controllers yet, Not yet anyways
Thanks for your clarification, it now makes sense.
i am trying to build a tesla house battery any advice would be appreciated.
I very much appreciate your work. Can you tell us how to make these EVs waterproof??Have u encountered the problem before?? Thanks, keep up the work,Vipul
Is the RevElectrics Powerlab your load for the fuse testing? I just looked it up, seems like an awesome tool for building and testing EV cells! Whats the brand and model of the blue charger/balancer?
+Kent Henry yeah the blue is an Imax6 j35.us/Ama-imax6-charger
I'm in the process of building myself a electric scooter. This electric scooter I think MacGyver would be proud of. I'm going to put it together with almost all recycled stuff even the motor. I almost got some motors and the guts of a powerful pro electric forklift for free but I wasn't fast enough on the response to the person that had it. So I decided to do it a different way.
I want to use a powerwall as either a backup to grid power in the event of an outage or a way to store power to take advantages of lower day rates. So my question is, do they make an inverter that will also correctly recharge the powerwall (18650 cells)?? If so can you share a link?
Hey,
I watched the most of your videos now!
Keep up the good work! It's a nice project!
In this episode you explained that you need 4600 cells, wich costs you $1150?!
Where did you get these batteries so cheap?
I also have a question about the electric motor.
As you probably know, the Tesla model S has a 416 hp electric enginge, and contains over 7000 18650 rechargable lithium batteries. The car also weights more then 2000 kilo. Altough the car is pretty heavy, it has a range for about 480km.
Does the weight of the car, and the amount of hp effects the battery durability?
For example:
A car weights about 1000 kilo. (50% lighter then a Tesla Model S)
The 200 hp electric engine and 3500 18650 cells are also 50% less then a Tesla model S. Do I still achieve the same range of 480 km (Or something near that)?
I'm sorry for my bad English but this is the best way I could describe it.
Regards,
Herman
Thanks for watching. Im buying cells on ebay, watch Episode #12.
Vehicle weight, motor size, driving stile, all that stuff affects life of the batteries.
Range is determined by many factors, vehicle weight, aerodynamics, Battery size, system efficiency, and again Driving style. 50% less car with 50% less battery would yield comparable results but only if all other factors are identical.
Great video, you are a great resource.
Mr. Garcia, Thank you for the valuable input. Can I ask for a couple of sources from you, please; Where can I get pre-made S6 charge balancing wires and harness; and what about that black plastic 'carton' to hold the 18650 cells top and bottom? 3D printed? I need that setup for my off-grid solar home.
www.usastore.revolectrix.com/Products_2/Cellpro-PowerLab-6-EC5-version_2
www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/2000301954.html
First of, thank you for all of your videos. It's really been helpful as I'm learning all of this.
Now for the questions:
1) You solder your packs, but I've heard that's dangerous to the batteries and you should only spot weld. Is this a real problem, or is it not really an issue?
2) Do you connect up your parallel batteries together first, THEN put those in series, or put a bunch that are in series together in parallel - or does it even matter?
Thanks!
Hey Jehu, do you remember what you were using to draw a load from the battery pack across the fuse? In the video, you were able to dial in the max amount of current. I have fuse wire I'm trying to dial in too. Thanks for the help!
how do i know if the wire fuse you used are the right ones for a tesla house battery? didnt you calculate the max 6amp draw for your samba? how would that effect a 12v bank with a 12v inverter? also do i need a special inverter or charge controller? i know this is your samba project but i think your viewer could use a little insight on how to charge and discharge them safely with solar or off grid means. you know what your doing am am hoping for some help. thanks.
hello sir,
Which type of protective,shrinking material is used after making of cell connection to withstand shocks and shock proof battery pack?
I'm building a 36v battery 10s 10p what's gonna happen if I use nickel strips and not fuses, my controller is rated at 23amps max but I may change this to 30amps later, I have been using a 36v 10s 6p bottle battery and so far its been fine since buying new around 12 months ago, charging at 1amp to the full 42v, so really my question is should I use fuse wire and if not what's gonna happen, many thanks Brannen, I will be setting my alarm again for the next live stream being up at 4am in North Devon UK was worth it last time, a great show. I know its not new but getting my questions answered live form, someone, I respect living in California USA still even today, blows my mind.
Oh and I use a BMS is this enough of a safeguard?
That is a much cleaner build using the wire. Is the wire anything special? Your soldering skills have greatly proved.
Wire is a 1/8 watt resistor legs, maybe 1/4 watt resistor wire blows at 10amps
jehugarcia
What type of wire is that & what gauge is it?
A question please,great channelbythe way , so the power is carried through these wires to the bus bars it just doesn't look thick enough , great idea if it works, cheers.
+Gavin FreedomLover Under normal operation each cell is only going to contribute 2A continuous, the wire can handle 6A for 10 seconds
great , thanks very much I really appreciate your reply is it just standard fuse wire , I will watch the vid again you might have put a link in , I love lithium ion and animals and ride with my chihuahua's on my electric bike :) , peace and good luck to you
budget minded, or wise/clever with resources. an idea, traction pack level components are $$. for less problem and cost, run a dedicated bank /pack /batt sized for all the "12v" systems (runninglites, cabincomforts, controlheads, etc) charge @48v drop down to 13to14volts. capacity of need for range. (prob been debated elsewhere) bear in mind, engineers have eng.dept budget, expectations, and paycheck. good for them and they deserve it. there is only so many of those positions to go around however. as always, your mileage may vary.
OK, so you wanted to be sure the wire fuse was ample to carry the highest anticipated motor load. But how did you arrive at knowing it was low enough to blow when the cell had a runaway short- how much current does a cell produce when shorted? 5C?
cheers!
I've seen 15 amp out of these cells, the idea is that a short would blow the fuse anyway as the power needed to blow it would not be coming out of the shorted cell but into it from all the other 149 cells which are capable of 900+ amps
Will you put a solar roof on the top up the battery while parked?
Have you tried using NiMH cells? I always wondered if those could be a cheaper option
I haven't really found cheap NiMH cells, the lower voltage means I have to use twice as many so they come out costing just as much or more .
I see, thanks
Why do you solder on the batteries? Is that not dangerous? Is it not better to spot weld for saftey?
Hi Jehu, The fusible link works well but doesn't it present a couple other problems. If several cells short and the fuses blows it puts a strain an all the other fuses possibly causing them to all blow even though there isn't anything wrong with the remaining cells. It also means the capacity of that module lessens and it gets charged to a higher voltage when the pack as a whole is charged. So next you need a voltage reporting system for each module but eh, one problem at a time.
Definately a challenge in our hands
Less of a concern if the pack is easy to inspect. In a Tesla that's impossible, but in the eSamba, no prob. The cells in the old gas tank location might be harder to get to, but the ones in the floor will be a breeze to get a quick visual of all fuses. Easier and low cost compared to a real controller that could detect such things--maybe that's what Tesla has?
Yeah, cascade failure is a problem, but I think fusible links is a GREAT final failsafe, but I do think that there needs to be a primary fuse on clusters which SHOULD fail first, and only if it fails, will each cell pack's fusible link fail. The links failing is far better than all the cells going thermal runaway.
Hiya: what did you use to put the load on the melt the wire?
i have a question i haven't found an answer ... I am harvesting these laptop batteries for the cells but haven't really decided which particular project so Im basically charging/waiting/Discharging/recharging and getting capacities and voltages ... my question is that Im using 2 different chargers... I have the 1 amp charging circuits that charge to 4.2v so I can mass charge batteries and I also have a B6 AC v2 ( authentic) for charging and discharging... but it only charges batteries to 4.1v ... so now Im not sure which one to use to charge... on the other hand... these 1 amp charging circuits, do they add too much current into the cells? I see some cells 18650 have a max charge rate of .5amps... but then I see allot of people using these 1 amp chargers... ?
Can you suggest a video that shows how to wire a balance lead on a 3 cell 5 parallel
Hi,
THank you for the video! Where are you finding these batteries for $0.25? From used laptops?
+Alex LePelch Ebay
seriously, why are you leaving out details.. what wire did you use?
+Paul Gdry id like to know too
I think he says somewhere that he cuts the leads/legs off of a 1/4w resistor.
Kurt Kowalski ya there is a link in the description it is for some 1/8 watt resistors
It says that he uses legs but that's not economical and a waste of resistors. I wonder if he could use thin gauge nichrome wire or similar. What gauge I wonder.
What wire do you use? Material? Diameter? Thanks
Another great episode!
Great video! Does anyone have any idea how much amperage those wires can take that Tesla are currently using on their own batteries?
20A on the modules I tested
I know this a video from 2014 and Jehu in other videos says he prefers resistor wires for fuses, but I'm wondering if anyone has successfully used "5 amp fuse wire" as found on Aliexpress?
Are you considering a spot welder or are you going to continue using solder
I think I'm going to stick with solder, I don't see the downsides to it.
jehugarcia
I tried to join batteries with the solder, but the solder doesn't sticks to the battery. You use some special?? The finish is perfect.
Thanks in advance.
Alberto Serrano nothing special, you need resin core solder, and plenty of heat 480 degrees F
Hi
I built a 1200 cell using old laptop batterys 20 modules 60 cells. Weighs 70 kilos with casing ectr. Im in the middle of building 20 x balancing circuits for charging in 1 long string 72v pack 84v fully charged. title of video is (how to build 1200 cell lithium battery pack). I bought a cheap spot welder off ebay. around 20,000 spot welds. im hoping to draw 200A without to much voltage sag or fireworks in the back lol.
The strip i used to connect the batterys will melt at 10A if cell shorts.
Cheers
Gary
I love the Samba!
your one smart dude and i thank you for your videos
Hi there, do you mind to give us the schema of the circuit? I can't understand how it's made.
Your fuse wire links to a resistor page. However, your video shows a spool. Where did you get your spool of fuse wire and what are it's specs?
That spool is solder, and the fuse wire are the legs of the resistors...
OK. Thanks. Have you considered actual fuse wire? It expensive, but might fuse quicker? I'm somewhat concerned about a high drain battery that is not completely shorted, but would create a drain on the pack and make a wire hot, but fuse a fuse wire. Just thinking.
I see you solder batteries instead of welding at 9:04, so far so good no issue with those cells isnt it?
Thanks for this video! Good info!
What flux did you use to get the solder to stick to the battery?
HI, the first time I watched one of your videos links popped up for where to get the fuse wire and other components. they stopped popping up. Or am I Imagining it. What is the wire? I'm building a battery for my Farallon MKIII dive scooter. I have 98 cells in 7ea 14cell batteries for 25.9v Just need to get the plastic clips and fuse wire and I can assemble it. Thanks Tomas
18650 Clips j35.us/18650-spacer-clips
Copper bar - j35.us/1NGpBo4
1/8 Watt resistor legs for fuse wire - j35.us/1k-Ohm-resistor
+jehugarcia Hey, Thanks a bunch. Really enjoy your videos and projects. I'm really hopeful that the battery i'm putting together makes this old toy new again. Tomas
cool
+jehugarcia Would I need to match up new batteries into sets based on amp hours?
yes
is that vsauce music?
Duy Zoro yes it is.
It's free music that vsauce happens to also use :)
where can i find this music?
Dude, you are the man.
Have you thought about using supper capacitors with your battery's as a stabilizer? Thy can reduce your weight and increase your range.
How did you get so many cheap 18650 cells? I can't find notebook batteries, that are as cheap as 0.25$/cell :/
I really like your work btw :)
lg, couka
+Die Bastler Werkstatt th-cam.com/video/Bk50IuWXg-c/w-d-xo.html
can you share what cable/wire that was? Diameter and material. i'm looking to build this into my e-bike as well.
+Chris Hoppe Its the Leg of a 1/8 watt resistor
I know this is old but the cars were originally powered by electric cars... This was before Henry Ford and they were expensive as crazy. Think Tesla roadster price for a base model
How many volts are you losing over that fuse at 5 amps?
4amps? Aren't lithium rated for 30amps? Why not set fuses to the cells max rather than overall system pull?
It's less current but don't motors have surges under specific conditions?
1c-5c max usually on 18650 cells, lipo chemistry can go up 100C
A spanish language version please !!! ... great work ... all your videos about electric conversión... cool passion !!!
Jehu, great video as usual. On average, how much is each cell including plastic holders and stuff costing you? I like your average guy approach to EV building. Keep this up I'll have to donate some cash...
Its hard to say at this time as each cell is costing me about 30 cents, but not all are keepers, Ive currently tested about 500 good cells and 600 cells that did not make the cut, so the cost is higher than 30 cents, the plastic clips are $30 per module so I'm looking at $900 in plastic.
jehugarcia
Hey jehu, have a look at fasttech dot com for the plastic holders, if you ask for a quote there are price breaks. I just ordered 100 of the 10packs for $1.56US per pack shipped. If you buy a larger quantity it might go down further. SKU 1290405 I can't comment on the quality yet but I have some on order.
Any hope of a solar panel on the roof to extend range further?
Nope, too big, too ugly and not enough to energy to be worth the trouble
+J House it would increase your distance only a few miles but it would get interesting by bigger stops. 1m² will give you about 100W under perfect circumstances so 3m² would be realistic and that means you get 300 Watts per hour. I would say the samba needs about 10 kWh for rolling around, so you need to be 30 hous under sun to drive around for one hour. xD
1 hour of sun per mile. 300Wh/mile
Really nice video
Excellent work :)
Thank you, great information!
where did you buy the batteries? not the ones from the laptops
Balqon.com
Where did he get the connectors for the li-ion cells?
that's sweat, keep up the beast projects
so, if you do it like this, you don't need nickel strips?
ok let me show you what i am talking about. My intention is not to anger anyone. Telsa batt system is supposed to be more efficient which i dont agree with but for sure its a niche, why, the charging and cycling is extremely precise and critical for the life of the battery. The other thing...you used solder to connect those batt , the heat from the iron is going to damage your batts. But you can buy the batts welled for no additional charge in the config you want and use a decent cycler to charge. you can still incorporate the fuse also. in any case thanks for your time.
Do it, Show us how its done, its easy to say do it better, doing it better is what separates the doers from the sayers.
not really. Architects never build houses. Still because of them there are wonders in this world. I do want you to do it ...all i am saying ,think outside the conventional . Best wishes to you then.
David Hall On the contrary, many architects build houses. Most of them come from construction backgrounds, you can't just consult on a subject matter without actually getting your hands dirty at one time or the other. For example most architects often build their own homes, you only have to look at a show like Grand Designs, or Extreme Homes to see proof. I really admire Jehu and Elon for pursuing their dreams and actually MAKE something. David it seems to me like you think there is a better way, well as the old saying goes.. put up or shut up :) Lets see video proof of your better way.
thankyou for your response at least you do understand somethings. As i said before i am not putting down anyone i was at a wonder as to why they were going the direction they did, but it seem as if they were simply following.Someone gave them a super suggestion and the response to it was what i would characterize as negative main stream. The suggestion would solve they problem and put them on the map at the same time . This is why i dont have to build the house there are building . I am not a follower i would build a different house.
someone has to build the house, my house your house, everyones, but if you're not willing you are going to live on one, someone else built.
Amazing! thanks for sharing!
Hello,
With only one motor what is the top speed? Can you reach 100km/h or 120km/h?
Thanks
sorry forget you are on miles! Can you reach 60 or 70 miles on high way?
yes 8000rpm
Running in the same gear box of the van or direct drive like Tesla's?
Ashok Revanna technically you could also use a one speed gear drive out of a Nissan Leaf, Ford Focus Electric, VW e-Golf, etc.
Unfortunately, I am from India and electric vehicles are still a distant dream and only one is available and only one that is available is super expensive to get hold of. I am also looking forward to convert my couple of vehicles to electric, that are typical gasoline/petrol engines, so was curious whether he is using the same transmission/gearbox from his old vw van. Thanks for your reply @Aaron Green, appreciate it.
The ideal way to do this would be to get a bunch of NCR18650GA cells. They are 238Wh/kg. Your reused cells can't be anywhere near that.
Would you be able to use transparent solar panels in some of the windows, might add a few miles ?
Oh boy did this lady learn a lot today. Gonna get my widdy biddy fortune into lithium futures or sompin'.
where did you get the holder for the batteries?
ebay
Hello,
Where to get these fuses please ?
A question for you. Take a tesla battery pack or just wire 7000 cells., put 1 stick of dynamite on it and run like hell. What is the force of explosion. What is the additive effect on blowing up a lot of amps. I am not a battery fan. They are dangerous as hell. Stuffing amps amps and even more. People here have no idea what 1 grade wire looks like. And why it is used.
Beatifull Kombi
Where are you getting all these cells ?
+Psycho Rc j35.us/Ebay-Laptop-Battery-Lot
where did you got that wire?
What awg of the fuse wire you using?
0.15mm
does anyone know where to get actual 5amp fuse wire?