thanks for this. My mother was a christian scientist and didn't believe in disease. my family "respected her beliefs" when she found a teeny, tiny lump on her breast that could have easily been removed with surgery. Instead of doing that, she decided to heal it with Christian Science. she lied to her family and told us she had taken care of it. She did nothing but read christian science literature as her lump get bigger and the cancer spread. All the while keeping her family completely in the dark about what was going on with her. she continued this in the face of stage 4 cancer, believing that a "deeper understanding of christian science" would heal her. These beliefs were so strong that even when I would urge her to get treatment she refused and told me that *my* belief that she had cancer would prevent her healing. Which is why she didn't tell anyone until it was too late. Christian science didn't heal her. And the people in this religion that she loved so much abandoned her at her time of need. Her last few months were spent in pain and suffering because she refused even the most basic pain medications. No friends or anyone from the church visited her. She barely talked to me or anyone in the family. She just read her christian science literature and called her practioner (christian science "healer") who also abandoned her shortly before her death saying she was too steeped in "materia medica" (aka modern medicine) because she had taken some morphine for pain. She died at age 59. Christian science is a dangerous belief system. It should NOT be respected. It needs to be challenged, especially when there are children involved. It makes me feel really sad to realize how much neglect is steeped into this religion. Thanks for letting me post this novel... clearly I needed to get this out.
Your story fills me with twisted spite and sorrow. My own mom is a practicing Christian Scientist, and she... got pretty unhealthy. Autoimmune disease, of all sorts of kinds... Scar tissue in lungs... Not eating... She was wasting away in front of us and seemed blissfully ignorant and perfectly resigned to her new fate. I am not sure how she has made the recovery that she has made, but... it is painful, sympathetically and empathetically, to hear about your mother. I was worried I was going to see the same thing happen to my mom... The thing for us was that there was no real treatment. They could throw NSAIDS at her and antibiotics but it was really just a formality... Our medical system is an abysmal failure when it comes to complicated, deep diagnosis... I honestly had more confidence that a shaman would do better for her than a doctor with what I was hearing from her care providers. Somehow she is getting better. I an grateful to have pretty open communication with her and I believe that her letting her family in her bubble, with encouragements that didn’t always line up with her interpretations of “proper christian science” may have kept her foot in the door for actually trying to get better. Hearing about your mom... And especially about that fucking snake practitioner. I am sorry. Having been raised a Christian Scientist myself and exploring a number of other beliefs as well before becoming atheist at 15, I would have a number of choice words to positively lambast that piece of shit and his fucking excuse for spirituality. I know a couple of very good, wholesome Christian Scientists who I think model their religion very well and very moderately, but I think that more often than not people either just naturally turn to medicine anyway (in our house there wasn’t even a question - if shit happened, doc visit. For the kids, spiritual healing was reserved for an upset stomach), or they go the blissfully-ignorant route... that invites you to hate a part of the person that you love as you watch them fade, smiling, into the abyss. No. WAKE THE FUCK UP, I want to say to them. Even the founder of their religion Christian Science would crucify them (figuratively) for their inaction. Reading a god damned book and hiding from the truth is not what it was meant to be. My interpretation from my own study and rigorous bible/S&H study in group with a locally highly-respected teacher was that really CS was meant to be closer to a secular religion of meditation or prayer, even the founder says “don’t do nothing” and that she thought making a religion about her study was completely misguided. If one is dying while commitedly practicing exclusively CS as a treatment, then WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING CONSTITUTES “NOTHING.” I want to spitefully scream it into the face of those people. However, the desire to do so is replaced by a defeated sorrow, because if one can’t get through to another, who wants to then force their will on their ailing loved one? It feels like there is no way out. I hope that you can forgive yourself wholly. It is of the utmost importance, and it’s always what our lost loved ones want. It is not wrong to reflect, as life goes by, on how things may be handled differently. It is good to learn from these experiences and use them to bring good into the world, as painful as they are... but first and foremost, our loved ones want us to love ourselves, and forgive ourselves. I know your mom would want the same for you, as mine would have wanted from me if she had passed. To do so... I would try, I think, but I am very grateful I have not lost my mother like this because I known it would be hard. I hope you have found it to be within your reach... For you, I send you an internet hug. I would rather no one would have to say goodbye to their mother for such an enraging and defeating reason. I hope that the sensible Christian Scientists out there can stir the pot a little bit, and say loudly to one another, “Hey: there is nothing wrong with medical treatment. It’s literally a part of our literature. If you are sick, and not getting better, GET HELP. Christian Science, you can work on all your life. If you’re watching yourself lose a battle with cancer or autoimmune disorder though, for the sake of your family, your friends, and yourself... GET HELP. If it isn’t working for you, stop beating a dead horse and FUCKING HANDLE IT. Ignorance and neglect are not a part of God’s plan for you. Responsibility and self-love are and if you are forgoing treatment and losing, then self-love and responsibility ask of you to re-evaluate, find help, accept the help, and you can continue your study, but do not do nothing.” Best wishes to you and your family. I hope you can all find healing, and that you keep up your strength and fill your heart with love.
There is no endorsement of “Christian” science in the Bible. Your mother was deluded by ignorant fanatics. We have been provided with doctors for the healing of sickness, why should not a Christian accept that gift? The woman who touched Jesus and was healed in the New Testament first saw doctors to treat her condition, when they could do nothing, she came to him.
Zoe Bird I also apologise however, as I did not know that Christian Science is an actual twisted branch of Christianity. Normal Christians do not believe in Christian-based science, just science, which really doesn’t not contradict our belief system apart from certain debated aspects.
.... sorry about your loss and your mothers delusion....it is easier to fool somebody than to convince them that they are wrong... believers in nonsense would sooner be dead then wrong... i wise man told me you have to Be wrong first to Be ‘right ‘..... Christian Science is a oxymoron.... if there was a hell, well you know the rest.
Can you help me understand this? Can I respect a person who has the OPINION that 'women should have no rights' for example? I believe that I can't respect the person due to their opinion. I don't know if I am understanding correctly?
@@V_2077 man this is really hard. caring for people can actually entail to not care for people that cause harm. Thoughts and beliefs aee not intrinsic tho so there is a small chance to "save the human and kill the monster"
I believe that we should respect people who have done no harm to others. We shouldn’t respect some who have done harm verbally, psychologically, physically, etc with intent because they have harmed others that are a part of your reality and have gone against human morality, thus not being able to earn respect.
Respecting a person with harmful opinions is ignorant. Why would I respect a person whose opinion is, for instance, that homosexual couples shouldn't adopt children when that is objectively a helpful thing. Similiar opinions also spread hate against a minority that deserves none in the first place. If the person doesn't respond by correcting themselves and their view when faced with facts disproving their statement, what reason is there to respect that ?
How does one get accepted by people when they're never accepted in by people for their beliefs? For example you have 101 people looking at a coloured paper, 50 say that the page is black, 50 say that the page is white, but one says it is green. And all 3 parties disagree with each other. What should the individual do?
If someone honestly thinks that what they believe is true, they should also think that it would hold up to scrutiny. To deny someone questioning your beliefs you also to deny your beliefs.
@@ianmcelmurry2882 how come you are still christian? if you are looking for an argument that can debunk god, there isn't one because religious people will always find an excuse. you should realize that god has no arguments FOR his existence. the only argument they have is just that he is above all logic and blah blah blah, thats just the dumbest excuse ever
Christians actually need people like these to develop in their faith, because without foundations to fall back on when being under scrutiny, your entire worldview falls
What really broke me was second grade at a lunch table. I went to a Catholic school for grades k-5, so we had just gotten back from religion class (church but framed in a classroom). We were talking about the lesson of how if you don’t believe in Jesus you go to hell, and one of my friends says, “so my dad is going to hell?” (His dad was extremely nice and helped out a ton at the school but was still atheist) the table went quiet and everyone was to justify it. I still remember that moment to this day.
yea I hate that kind of belief...I personally believe that you can choose a religion that matches up with your moral code, so that you'd do the most amount of good in your life, and live peacefully Because just blindly having faith in the religion that you simply 'believe' in isn't the best for the person or the people around their life
I remember as a child i would purposely mention that I don’t believe in god just to make other kids mad and say I will go to hell, even from my friends. I was a weird child.
My perspective of god is that people don’t choose some things in their life. If you are a psychopath by nature you won’t be judged by a sin that you don’t have control of. God want his morals to be followed, but there is various ways to interpret himself. That is why you don’t put a symbol in gods name, people will interpret its appearance in different ways and all of them are right. When you don’t believe in god you still believe in something, we can’t as humans think about the “non existence” or death, so i think you go towards what you believe, being heaven a place of “peace”, and peace is different for everyone. So atheists won’t go to hell, well, at least no if they followed the simple morals and were a good person when alive.
@@whisperywind314 Ohhh that's an interesting belief! I agree with you on how it differs from person to person, since God would sometimes wire our brains differently.
@@whisperywind314 you can believe in something without perceiving it. I can neither perceive an eternity in heaven nor an eternity of nothing so to me god and death have an equal chance of being real. I just choose to believe in the one that sounds more peaceful to me which is death. I dont understand nothingness but i think when i die i will be nothing. The electrons that moved throughout my body will disperse and I’ll just be dead
I think a lot of people use the phrase "respect my beliefs" to mean "respect my right to believe these things", which is a different concept but one I'm much more willing to work with.
This, exactly. And in addition to that: "Respect my right not to engage with your attempts to convert me." I believe in the Big Bang, the theory of evolution, etc., but I have evangelical Christian family members who believe various forms of Creationism, "Original Sin," etc. I "respect their beliefs" in the sense that they can make a Facebook post about something religious, and I *DON'T* feel compelled to debate and argue them out of their beliefs. That's it. I wouldn't want them making it *their* goal to persuade me of *their* beliefs, either.
People are the same with free speech. Freedom of beliefs is not freedom from having your beliefs criticised - it is simply the freedom to choose what to believe without legal intervention. If you believe that I will suffer eternal torture because I require proof of your god(s), then I will criticise that belief. Freedom of speech is not freedom from having your words criticised - it is simply the freedom to choose what to say without legal intervention. If you say racial slurs and/or queerphobic slurs, I will criticise those words. I firmly believe that freedom of speech and belief are two of the most important human rights, simply because it creates change as a natural element in culture and society. But that does not mean I endorse racism or religion.
@@elise205 I realize that, as legal principles eg. in the US First Amendment, these only apply to *legal* repercussions and *legal* intervention. But I disagree that they should stop there. The government isnʼt the only group that can totally mess up your life and shouldnʼt actually do it. If you can get fired for your religious views, then you donʼt actually have religious freedom in practice. If your landlord can evict you if you speak out about some controversial political position, you donʼt actually have freedom of speech in practice. Just today I learned that a blogger I like just deleted his blog because the NYT wants to write an article about it, and they plan to use his real name instead of the pseudonym he uses. The *government* doesnʼt care what he says, but his employer, customers, and Internet randos who hate his blog enough to want to send him death threats do. In practice, he does not actually have freedom of speech under his real name. Sure, you should be able to criticize peopleʼs beliefs and words; thatʼs what this video is about. But saying that freedom of speech and religion are only legal ideas, instead of also being moral principles, goes too far in the other direction. You can believe what you want. I can criticize your belief. But I should not fire you for it, or evict you, or dox you; itʼs not enough that I just refrain from arresting you. *That* is what I mean by being willing to respect your right to hold a belief, and it is just as important as being able to criticize the belief itself.
If you had authority and somebody ridiculed you, your reaction would be the same as anybody else’s reaction in that situation. The book Animal Farm by George Orwell explained that most people would eventually become just as bad as the bad rulers they overthrew beforehand.
Ridiculing isn't something good, the only reason why we accept Ridiculing is that because it might be valid criticizm and not hate speech, but we don't know therefore we treat it as valid criticizm. Not all rediculing is productive and good.
@@omerkaya545 I just like the statement because I think everything should be able to be made fun of. Depending on the circumstances, *everything* can be part of a joke.
I've always liked the phrase "Your right to swing your arms ends at my face." Religious freedom is good, no one is arguing against that, but the moment what you believe directly or indirectly harms someone, it deserves no respect.
That's why I always say: I have no respect or tolerance for a religion that doesn't respect one's humanity. We're animals and have emotions and instincts. So saying Lust and pre marriage sex is sin is ignorant of human nature as a species. Marriage isn't natural, it's a made up social construct thus has no merit of judgement or right to.
If your God wants us, mere imperfect mortals, to suffer on Earth and eternally in death, for the crime of doubting and erring. Then I'll gladly put my faith in the Devil, after all, he only punishes sinners.
@@VillackDeSage If you are going to criticize then do it properly. The devil is no punisher, in fact him and his angels get the worst of Hell's tortures. All your choice is, is to live without God and that is what it is.
In first grade a girl who heard that my family wasn’t religious came up to me at recess and said/yelled “Do u know who made the world, these classrooms, everything? God! My grandma didn’t believe in God and now she’s down under, burning and screaming, but nobody can hear her! You’re gonna end up like her!” and i cried lol. It especially sucked bc i already feared that my family and i were going to hell due to being brought up surrounded (it felt like) by christianity
@@harryz81 I know you THINK people challenging you is them stating something as fact but the adults are talking and you should take childish arguments to the short table.
@@NotSoSerious69420 Having childish arguments was on your mind first, it is likely your insecurity. How would you know if anything he said challenges my beliefs? You can't read minds, you twit.
@@NotSoSerious69420 come on a child can think of a better reply than that, the guy is stating his opinions as fact same as religious people which makes him as bad as them.
@@anasmohamed6013 if you’re unable to see the difference between this guy and religious people, I’m sorry, but you’re not very smart. Stating something ≠ implying it’s a fact. He just states stuff never implies it’s factual in fact never implies much of anything, gives you the information and his own personal conclusions but it’s ultimately up to you.
Personally, when I say I respect someone’s beliefs, it’s shorthand for ‘I respect your right to believe what you want’. I’ve always thought that this was what everyone meant by that.
And where it's shorthand for 'respecting a right to hold my beliefs’, I respect that right. But it isn't always shorthand. Very often, as discussed in this video, it's used to communicate that others need to capitulate in some way to an individual's belief - eg observe their ideological taboos. That's where I draw the line.
@@TheraminTrees Me too. I do not bend the knee to magical sky daddies of any kind. I hold human dignity to be sacred but not the dignity of any religion to be sacred.
Why should you have a right to believe in things everyone already knows to be false by any sane and normally developed person? I mean like come on, if you are a Flat Earther, you couldn't even use your damn phones and internet without relying technology made using the knowledge that Earth is indeed flat. Giving free license to believe anything without knowledge on subject is dangerous. We should, to an extent, respect science and experts, although to constantly allow freedom of opinion and debate between ideas. Most religions, today, are the equivalent of believing in Flat Earth - utterly outdated, obsolete and replaced by better ideas already. Atheism is the future
@@tj-co9go i mean, i kinda agree but i kinda don't, if it's something that actively causes problems, like faith healing, fake psychics, or flat earthers then yes they don't deserve respect, but if it's simply someone's belief cause it just gives them hope or a meaning, i dont think theres anything wrong with that i totally agree with the science and experts part tho, science denial is a very big problem with these kinds of religions although if the religious person is attacking your beliefs or claiming that they are true, then they are actively setting themselves up for criticism, there's no way to pull the "respect my beliefs" card there
it's more than that. respecting one's beliefs means not eating pork in front of a muslim, not making sexual jokes in front of a priest, etc. you don't have to go out of your way to make a positive environment for them but you should do you best to avoid making a negative environment.
@@gigawooper2733 people that don't abide by the rule are naturally excluded. In North Korea, the belief of a single person supported by a giant corrupt system of oppression is pushed down the throat of every living innocent citizen. Classic dictatorship
Back in the day your videos helped me realise I was being abused, I ended my marriage and I am now a happy person in a happy relationship, you helped save my life, thank you
@@krasinmarinovo, they’re just being respectful, cus some people are sensitive to that stuff. It’s funny how the modern conservative interpretation of sympathy or accommodation is “woke” or “trying to avoid cancel culture,” and how it’s infected the minds of normies and even many non-conservatives. I will admit that there is a kind of terrible “pile-on” culture on social media, but “cancel culture” in the way you probably mean doesn’t exist.
I realize that this video has nothing to do with "We should hate others for their religion" but rather just "we should feel free to criticize each other"
I’m atheist but I had a lot of friends of different religions. Most of them were pretty relaxed, but I remember 3 instances where I felt horror towards what beliefs people could possibly hold. 1. My mom has a severe mental illness where she’s tormented by voices and paranoia all moments of her life. My middle school Mormon friend told me that we should all be happy because she “chose” this path. She explained that people are given a choice before birth: live “normally” and try to work your way into heaven, or choose to take “the easy path” where she is guaranteed a spot in heaven. I’ve never before been so livid. My mom used to have more of her mind when I was in kindergarten and I remember her as loving, kind, and happy. Only 5-10 years later she spends her days screaming and breaking furniture, fearing that someone is hiding inside and trying to hurt us. To call that a “choice”, and the fucking “easy path” on top of that… I couldn’t believe it. It’s such a horrific sight and I can’t imagine how terrifying every day feels for her. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy and my “friend” expected me to cheer and celebrate about it. 2. My first sleepover with my best friend (Muslim) was also deeply uncomfortable. Everything was going amazing until we got ready for bed. We were about to sleep and she starts to cry. I go to comfort her and she tells me that she can’t stand the fact that I’ll burn in hell for all of eternity. I didn’t know what to say. I think I said something non-committal, but she doubled down and explained in detail how I am guaranteed to experience all the pain forever after I die because I’m not Muslim. She kept saying stuff like “you don’t understand, it’s eternal pain forever. There’s no escape and you’ll burn only to be burned even more. Forever and ever. Even when you regret it, your soul will never be able to leave”. I was so unnerved at the sheer certainty in her words and how it sounded like a mix of desperation, fear, and concern. The tone she used in her voice still haunts me. We were in elementary/middle school at the time. I could tell that she cared about me, but this was the only way she could express that. She was just a kid. Why did someone say that to her? 3. This was when I was older (and in that sense I find it more concerning). I was in high school and one of my Christian friends learned that I was atheist (I don’t really talk about it). She went up to me asking why I don’t follow the Bible. I said that I think the Bible contains some good morals, but it’s also a very old book with very old values and beliefs. She responded “How do you know right from wrong without a moral compass? What’s stopping you from killing people?” That scared me a bit. I didn’t think I had to explain that most people have basic human empathy. I said that I don’t hit people because I wouldn’t want to be hit by others. I hesitantly said the same applies for murder. If I think it sucks being killed, then I think it would be a pretty shitty thing for me to do to someone else. She still was confused. “Why don’t you just go steal and kill? You believe there’s no punishment for it. Why not do it?” Well, firstly, there’s the police. But also, I… never felt the need to kill someone??? It’s not something I’ve secretly hoped I could do… and I still think it would suck getting murdered. But she continued to ask why I didn’t just go kill people. It almost sounded like the Bible was the only thing stopping her from murder. I felt there was something off about not doing something just because something told her to, and she didn’t consider why it’s said to be wrong in the first place. I felt a little nervous around her since then.
The reasons I don't kill people: 1- I am not a psychopath 2- I don't believe in an afterlife. I believe that if I kill someone, that person will just cease to exist, leaving the whole wonderful life they could've lived completely wasted, and ruining the lives of all the people who loved them, with no hope that they'll ever meet again 3- I have no reason to kill anyone 4- The police are not forgiving 5- I would puke 6- It's hard to kill people 7- I would have to go outside and touch grass And more! :D If the ONLY thing stopping a person from killing people is a fear of eternal punishment... Um... yeah, might wanna get that checked out.
I'm so sorry for your mother's condition, and to call that "the easy way", even if it may have been some misguided attempt to cheer you up, was just...wrong. The second story makes me feel so sad for that girl, you can clearly see a kind-hearted nature clashing against an abhorrent aspect of a belief system, and suffering greatly for that. As for the last one, that's genuinely terrifying: at best, that person is so walled off from any other belief system except their own that they seriously think no moral compass exists except their own, and at worst...well, if all that's keeping a person from murdering another human being is the threat of eternal damnation, then that person is not far from someone who kills in their god's name, for if only your god is keeping you from murder, what happens when I convince you that your god is absolutely ok with the murder of certain people? Just plain horrifying
There are religious people who CAN be tolerant to others, believing in their religion without putting others down. But... the religions are not like this, yes.
@@radschele1815 True, I too was like that before becoming agnostic, but behaving like that is, ironically, to go against the dictates of some religions. Mine in particular was catholicism because I live in Italy and it is omnipresent here, although many small town priests (like the priest of my own little town) advocate for moderation and respect for people of other beliefs in their sermons. Still, after I found out the contradictions and dogmas of strict catholicism (like some of those spoken about in the video), I left that faith and started searching for my own morality. It's just...if I don't recognize myself 100% in all the beliefs of a belief system, I cannot be a part of it, I'm not the type of person that can ignore hateful claims in the name of a greater picture
@Ju 1. Since you asked me to prove it i assumed that was the case 2. Scratch the word perfect from the sentence. 3. Id like you to prove to me what you believe 4. Its pretty much impossible to prove a topic such as the existence of god through text
I had a vegan people flashback xD. But ye it sounds dumb. Unless your contemplating what food to make cause many religions have specific things banned and stuff.
actually I would love it if a random stranger came to me and asked me what's my religion this would be a great opportunity to share and discuss my beliefs and morals with someone who is to me a blank page, someone that I don't have any pre judgements about. This conversation could be a learning point for both of us even if one of us wins, that doesn't necessarily make the other accept the winner's beliefs because beliefs are so deep that you cannot hope to change them in one day, but this conversation would lead to each one of us broadening their horizon and researching more. Small talk is boring and I would take a religious argument over it anytime
If your religion villainizes you for leaving the faith, questioning the belief system, punishes you for exploring other belief systems you should know it is a cult. the sooner you leave it the better.
This reminds me of Islam. If you're unlucky you can get killed for leaving it. In Iran , Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia the government will do it. It is actual Islamic law to kill apostates. And questioning the religion is caused by the devil and jinns. Some of these people are taught that it is dangerous to enter a church.
The thing that makes me sad is that many churches have stigmatized doubts and questioning, when those are perfectly reasonable things that most Christians go through. There's a point in many young adults' lives where they start trying to figure out who they are and what role they're to play in this world. When that happens, they have to question faith a lot, because it's transitioning from their parents', friends', or peers' religion to their own, and they have to really figure out what that means. Many Christians are scared of that, scared of those questions, because when there aren't educated Christians around to answer those questions, they can start to move away from the faith. But moving away from the faith is ALSO natural for many Christians. It's something a lot of them go through. Unfortunately some never come back from it. Thanks for reading my contribution to the series of novels in this comment section.
that's what i like about Buddhism: all paths lead to nirvana. the problem is is that a lot of people are denied enlightenment, either by others or their willful ignorance, and it causes a lot of despair inwardly and outwardly. there are certain sects of religion that are more humanitarian whilst keeping the core message of, essentially, "be a good person," but i desperately wish they would be louder than the more authoritarian sects. i believe such humbleness is respectable, but even then, if it helps their sanity to pick their battles, they also need to know when to actually take on those challenges at all cost.
@@harrietr.5073no it can’t. A religion that isn’t a cult would not think less of you for leaving and trying a different religion. Does you religion do these things?
only thing is that i wouldn’t call religion “thinking freely” as indoctrination prods people to follow it mainly out of fear, guilt and pressure from relatives. If someone’s actually went the extra mile and looked into it deeply, it would put them in conflict with other followers who have different outlooks. So what’s the point in identifying with a misunderstood ideology. Religion, political and social ideologies, nationalism and status divisions all need to go into the bin. The root of all these rigid thought structures is essentially selfishness and that shit’s wack.
@@shalom5978 I'm not so sure, I often see people getting offended on behalf of their beliefs. Not only religious beliefs, mind you. I think many might equivocate respecting the right to have an idea with respecting the idea.
@@soonsuicidal You respect the person, not their opinion. If someone's belief system can be dangerous or is flawed and you see holes in it, it's okay to point that out. It's not disrespectful to let someone know when they are wrong
Jan Sitkowski good for you for keeping your nose where it belongs but just because you don’t do something doesn’t mean you are the norm for your group. There are street preachers who literally make it their job to yell at people, who just want to live their lives without persecution, claiming that they themselves are being persecuted. This is no straw man, I’ve heard this from people in real life as well on TH-cam.
Jan Sitkowski that isn’t a strawman, I’ll admit I am making a huge generalization but it isn’t a strawman. A strawman is when you purposefully build the argument of the other side poorly and proceed to knock it down
Jan Sitkowski I agree that we need mutual respect but most Christians I’ve encountered (school in the south can be considered a hell for non-straight non-Christian students) are staunchly against your sentiments going out of their way to call gays fags, “you’re going to hell” and the like. As you said, winners write the history books, but it can also be said about the loudest part of a group doesn’t necessarily have to be the biggest, the loudest Christians tend to not be kind and are getting more attention than they should. I’m sorry for any information I get wrong or logical fallacies I’ve used, I generally don’t use rhetorical devices or have arguments
Jan Sitkowski I live in America, home of the idiots, and have more experience with their brand of Christianity. I'm sorry for any projection of any American issues on you, it is interesting to hear about differences in these sorts of things between countries.
@ Polish Catholicism is pretty blatantly bigoted here in the states where there is much cultural and racial diversity. My girlfriend's family has attended a mostly Polish Catholic church for years and years and even they are treated like they don't belong because they're not Polish like most of the others that attend.
People deserve respect until they prove otherwise. Ideas deserve no respect ever. Ideas are not people. Religion is an idea, subject to debate, ridicule, and falsifiability.
To say a religion is just an idea is wrong. To a non believer like myself maybe, but a religion becomes a part of a person it effects how they thing move and act if i say i hate the religion of Islam i might as well be saying to any believers i hate how you think and live your life. To believers there is no room for debate ridicule or fallibility.
@@uchihaitachifan00666 How deeply their beliefs are has little to do with responsibility on my part, other than showing them the same courtesy I would show anyone else. Religion as a social weapon doesn't impress me.
respect is earned, not given. you're utterly naive if you openly believe that every other person you meet has the intent of respect when it comes to interacting with you if only because you can't help it.
How are you to respect someone's actions if you are not privy to their intentions? If a Christian helps an old lady across the road, maybe that person wasn't trying to get into heaven but just being a decent human being. And if they were just being a decent human being and you witnessed them helping someone and thought, "they're just trying to get to heaven," that is a projected meaning, not the real intention. Next time you have a need of help, and there's no one to help you, consider yourself unlucky, not damned to hell.
Every video of yours that I watch, I find myself thinking, “that’s exactly what I want to say”. I wish I had the ability to express these realities as clearly as you do. Thank you.
Same dude. I'm so good at explaining this to the mirror in words that aren't even real but when I try to verbalize it to theists, they start shouting before I even get the chance and I mainly just forget what I'm talking about.
It may seem kind of random, but this sentiment reminds me of a quote from God and The State by Michael Bakunin (An antitheist from the late 19th century). "Does it follow that I reject all authority? Far from me such a thought. In the matter of boots, I refer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals, or railroads, I consult that of the architect or engineer. For such or such special knowledge I apply to such or such a savant. But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the savant to impose his authority upon me. I listen to them freely and with all the respect merited by their intelligence, their character, their knowledge, reserving always my incontestable right of criticism and censure. I do not content myself with consulting authority in any special branch; I consult several; I compare their opinions, and choose that which seems to me the soundest. But I recognize no infallible authority, even in special questions; consequently, whatever respect I may have for the honesty and the sincerity of such or such an individual, I have no absolute faith in any person. Such a faith would be fatal to my reason, to my liberty, and even to the success of my undertakings; it would immediately transform me into a stupid slave, an instrument of the will and interests of others."
Saying “I respect your beliefs,” has always been a way for me to curtly say, “It’s not my place nor interest to change your mind and I want to diffuse what could easily become an unnecessary and exhausting verbal conflict,”. People are welcome to believe whatever they want so long as they don’t push it onto me.
Huh, thats odd. As a Christian when I say "I respect your beliefs" to Atheists, Islams, Jews, or others who do not believe some or all of the things I do, I actually do respect their beliefs because everyone should actually mean what they say, and sometimes I don't respect others beliefs and im okay if someone doesn't respect mine, aslong as they respect the fact that I have the right to believe in what I wish
When I was a kid another kid in our church got terminal cancer. It was awful. He suffered horribly before he died. At one point, just before he passed some women from the church visited his mother to inform her that her son was sick because her husband drank on weekends. This shocking, sadistic behavior was the beginning of the end of my participation in a system that I never thought made sense, anyway.
So you are either an American Protestant or a Muslim. Every other religion (espicially roman catholics, true (=European) protestants and russian ortodox would also drink during the week and laugh at anyone who claims alcohol were bad..
Matricx700 They are both Abrahamic religions and command a bunch of things, like advocating for Slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). There a radical Christian groups in the Congo which are pretty much Christian Al Queda
When I see people laughing that islam believiers trying to make islam pro lgbt+ and pro feminism I just think they hypocrites because that's exactly how christians look like when they try to do that
couldnt agree with you more, considering that atheism is a bigger threat to christianity than islam is. but christians simply do not have the balls to criticise athiesm, you know why? because science is completely logical. christians have nothing to criticise about atheism.
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@@mabros26 The war between Christian and Athiesm is long over. Athiesm won. The new emerging war of this century is the war of Islam. 21st century Muslims are the 19th century Christians.
It’s amazing ppl in here are talking about Christianity lol… there the weakest most non violent ppl… Islam on the other hand, Even Judaism… That’s another story
@Kqnashi No...? Religion was made to answer the big question, "why does the world exist?" Sure, some religion act more like moral codes, like buddhism, but most religions are not like that. Religion being used as a weapon is not the intention of religion
I was raised in the JW cult even after a year of being out I'm still trying to get my critical thinking to a good place. This video really helps putting things into perspective.
I'm sorry for you. That is a terrible self esteem crushing cult. Only a sick person would invent a religion that prohibits holidays, birthdays, and fun.
That is not easy. More than anything, find people to be around. Don’t isolate yourself. After being out, you may find great strength in relationships where you can be honestly yourself! You are not alone, and you will find that life will blossom for you if you continue to be honest
There are a lot of really meaningful ex JWs making TH-cam content, it's really inspiring to see the individual stories and how they have grown and changed so much
When I was little I was Catholic, my parents were atheists but they believed it was wrong to impose any beliefs on me. So from friends and extended family, I was pushed to be catholic, I was committed to it, I loved god. When I was around 12 I started to realize that I was not straight. I was horrified because no matter how good I had been that meant I was going to hell. I went through a rebellious phase because "If I'm going to hell might as well earn it". Now I'm an atheist I still keep TRADITIONS that I like such as Christmas and even praying before I eat but instead of thanking god just acknowledge being thankful. If there is a god and an afterlife there is no way to know about it for sure, I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I'm not gonna make this life hell in hopes that in an afterlife that may or may not exist I will have favorable treatment.
This world could have been better if religious people embraced and welcomed LGBT people into their religions. God is for everyone. Not all gays go to hell.
@@AmenProletar this argument goes two ways, your belief and my own belief that the same would apply if religion never existed in the first place. Even if you feel offended by this, the idea would be true. The deeper idea in all of this is while this is a specific example of being gay, you could replace any relatively minor sin that is actively ridiculed by religion, and to suggest that religion should simply just tolerate them now rather than recognizing that this shouldve never happened in the first place and yet religion has historically unfairly ostracized those who act in these ways and it would be more efficient to suggest that religion should not and shouldve not existed rather than religion being more tolerant, especially so when multiple religions do this, not just yours.
Sorry to hear about your loss of faith. However, we still pray. Know, God has grace for homosexuals, as he does for all people who sin as you, and for us (trust, you are no special case among a world of thieving men). This said, homosexual behavior is not something our Lord encourages (like every other sin that the "straight" still commit). Only, to be right in your spirit, serve your humanity as best you can in spite of your faults. For, as humans we are defined less by our sins and more by how we repent for them. God bless you
It took until quarantine for me to final come to terms that I'm an atheist, but the seeds were sewn when I was a child and my father would openly talk about my loving grandparents being destined for hell simply because they weren't sure whether or not god existed. His own parents. I can't begin to imagine.
I went from a period of atheism to currently being agnostic. My strategy is to become a theist before dying. That's why I live fairly and cautiously so that I don't die an accidental death.
@@N0Xa880iUL rolling the cosmic dice before death, eh? Better pick a religion that only cares about your character when it's time for you to go. Although what's the point, there are so many religions to pick, not mentioning the ones that don't exist anymore or yet. You're pretty much bound to choose the wrong one, so it makes more sense to just do what you think is good right now.
@@freddy4603 You're right. I don't know what I'm doing. Life got to me. I'm to focus my efforts on making my life and of those around me better, than think about some unseen outcome.
@@N0Xa880iUL You’re strategy is to become theist before dying? What? Lmfao If whatever version of religion you believe in works that way then this really solidified to me that religious folks are nothing more but narcissists. Imagine going to this so-called heaven and meeting a bunch of shitt¥ people who are there because they believe in the billionth version of a god. Sounds like hell to me
I’m an ex muslim and it’s so frustrating because i can’t even say it out loud in real life. I live in ksa, a muslim country to some extents I suppose, and it’s so suffocating because my family and everyone I’m surrounded by is muslim and in Islam there’s a death penalty for apostates (people who leave the religion). There are many things wrong about this religion I have no idea how over a billion people are blinded by it.. many scientific mistakes and when it comes to morals, it has none. It literally doesn’t respect anyone who has another belief and even orders to kill those who don’t believe in their god. I do not respect this religion nor do I respect the apologists of it. Once I’m just a little older I’ll leave everything behind and start my own life. I’ve already cut off my friends because I know they wouldn’t accept me after I left islam so I hope I’ll be able to meet more amazing people in the future.
I wish you the best, I hope you’re somewhere safe now. I also wish you were the type of person people listened to to actually hear what is in that horrific book, what laws there are in Islamic countries (defacto or otherwise) and why it’s a toxic plague on millions of people..
One issue I always had with the understanding that "Not being part of a religion means you have no moral obligation to be ethical and/or righteous", which is inherently just flawed. Is it truly sincere and righteous if you're being a good person solely because you will be punished otherwise? Or vice versa, are you going through whatever ritual, prayer or action your belief requires just because you're promised a reward at the end? Do we as humans NEED a constant threat of eternal suffering, or a carrot at the end of the stick to be bit more selfless and act with respect to others' right to live?
This conclusion is the end of the road when you go all the way to ignore the moral obligations of religion. If there isn't an afterlife, if there is no God, and we simply "fade" into a void, then why bother being a good person? As in, what is the root cause for such behavior? You could come from the biological angle and say we humans are social animals and as such the cooperation with other beings is beneficial to our success, personal and as a species. You would naturally help your family, right? But at the same time, we're also competing for resources, even if under new parameters and perspectives. So what reasons do you really have to help someone you don't know? One step further, why do we determine some things are crimes? Why do we all inherently agree (almost all, unfortunately) that taking a life away is wrong? Or abusing a child? Or doing anything that you inherently deem immoral? Where does these rules emerge from? Are they completely arbitrary? If they are, what is stopping us from completely changing them? Once again, you can go down the psychology and sociology roads and say that these are more beneficial to us as a species. Protect the young, preserve life, even if those are not directly related to you. But remove that "arbitrary" standard and you fall back to things like rule of the strongest. The extreme end of this way of thinking usually leads to nihilism, in which there's no point in life but for it to end, and as such, why bother with anything? Not to say you can't live your life selflessly without attributing this behavior to religion. Directly, of course. Many of our unwritten rules come from a distant past where the religion was the law. There are good people outside of the boundaries of faith in whatever religion you may think of. The core of that question, imho, is the source of your morality. There are two famous ideas about the human nature. One says we are inherently evil, and the other say we are inherently good. The Bible says we were made good and perfect, but got corrupted by sin. I won't enter into the part of doing "good deeds" out of fear because that's another discussion altogether, but as for that debate, the point in question is the source of your morality
@@sparking023 You are making a mistake of believing that morality is inherently religious. There are lots of different philosophy devoted to trying to define morality. What is good vs what is evil. Honestly I don’t think we will ever reach a true understanding of it. However, this doesn’t mean that we can’t see how acting within certain behavioral norms benefits us. These normas are what we as a society has deemed acceptable behaviour. Considdering humans are very social creatures it is nessecery for us to act in a way that doesn’t just benefit the individual, but also one that benefits the social group. The social group doesn’t benefit from arbitrary killing, nor do you. If arbitrary killing is allowed then we are in danger of being arbitrarily killed, and we don’t want that. So we get together and decide as a group that this type of behaviour is unacceptable. Those are the basics. A lot of rules and prinsiples run on the same lines. We have laws against stealing because I don’t want someone to steal from me, and neither does annyone els. Now along the way ve have developed other characteristics that go together with the characteristics of the social creatures that we are. This is empathy. We have the abillity to immagine what it is like to be in another person’s situation, and to feel their pain to an extent. This helps us build bonds and creat a stronger society. A stranger isn’t just a stranger, but could be us if we werent as luck. We help them because our empathy makes us feel bad when we someone els struggling. This isn’t arbitrary as you claim, but the foundation for why we have built society in the ways that we have. It’s going back to the idea of the puddle looking around and thinking, «oh wow this hole that I exist in must have been made for me. It fits me in exactly the right way, and holds me compleatly.» This puddle is making the mistake of thinking that the hole it is in was made for it, when the reality is that the puddle conformes to the contours of the hole. Same thing with your line of reasoning. You are assuming that our societies where we tend to create the same sets of principals springs from the fact that we all share the same moral, when the reaity is that we all create our societies first and then try to define why we made the rules we did by retroactively fitting morality on to them as an explenation. I mean if we knew morality first then why are we still debating what morality even is millennia after we made these rules? No you don’t need God to explain why we help others in the least.
@@MissCaraMint sorry if I didn't make myself completely clear. I didn't mean to say all morality stems from religion, what I was trying to get at is *which source,* if you can call it that, any kind of moral rule comes from. Be it the social contract, or the examples you have laid in here, they all have some sort of reasoning as their basis. But when you exclude God, or any other high power for that matter, from the equation, and being your line of reasoning to the extreme, which I believe I mentioned, you end with what we would consider amoral behavior. If someone is strong enough to take something, why shouldn't they? Yes, this person will most likely make enemies, but what if they can protect themselves. And that doesn't necessarily has to apply on the individual level. Would you take a life to protect your family? Would you undermine one group in favor of other? Why is it that we look down upon the colonialism times where entire nations ruled over others? I agree that to this day we discuss morality and I don't think I've discarded the validity of this discussion or any philosophies regarding it. It wasn't the intention. But often that venue of debate comes to a point where the decisions feel a little arbitrary. Yes, not killing your neighbor is beneficial to your immediate and long term survival and success, and so is cooperation, and other interactions in society, but what is it that makes you extend the same benefit to people who you have nothing to gain from? Is it a form of guaranteeing support in a possible future? My frame of reference is the Bible, and quite often it is the one that gets criticized, and fair enough, let's discuss this. That's why I came here anyway. The main difference between a moral "code" based on a religion and one that is not is basically the source. Point in case, the Bible dictates what is ethical and righteous, and what is foul and evil. You can reach the same conclusions outside of the religion just fine, the same way many people practice charity regardless of them being religious or not. The only difference is how we "justify" them.
@@sparking023 No morality is something we have invented to explain behaviour we value. As our understanding of the world and others has improved, our idea of morality has become more complex. In short the sourse of morality is humanity. Not God.
I used to date a Christian and it’s a huge issue that so much of their identity is entangled with their religion that is seems they just can’t live without it. It made me realize that, at least in my case, atheists aren’t compatible with Christians in relationships because you fundamentally disagree on your sense of reality and therefore the logic or morality you use to make decisions. I specifically remember him saying he’s never had to question his morality, because it’s all in the Bible, and yet he would still pick and choose what parts of the Bible to overlook in order to make Christianity more palatable in modern society.
Funny enough as a Christian I would actually agree that a fundamental difference in perception of reality and decision-making would make a relationship fall apart...not to mention, how do you raise your children? That's a pretty major decision. I'd guess where both of us agree is that one shouldn't rush into a relationship without carefully examining those things and considering what the fallout down the line would be.
So what are atheist morals grounded on? Literally on the „Zeitgeist“. What is true and moral today can be wrong and immoral in 30 years. And most atheists aren‘t questioning their morals for the time being either. Even though atheists can‘t stop to emphasize they are more logical or closer to science, they really aren‘t.
Beliefs are an interesting thing. Even when you KNOW they're false, they have a way of sticking with you. Like a gut feeling that your capacity for reason isn't right... Something unconscious within you WANTS to believe. Beliefs, I think, answer a need within one's personality, they're constitutive of one's worldview. I thought I didn't have any irrational beliefs for the longest time, until after a lot of work on myself I realised that what was making me feel recurring emotional unease and anxiety were, in fact, false beliefs about myself undermining my self-confidence. And even after realising that, it took me a while to get rid of that, something within me always went "maybe I really AM worthless"
@@nerysghemor5781 Yeah. I wouldn’t want to have a spouse that discourages or stops our kid from going to church or receiving baptism or the other sacraments. That is if I/we would decide to have one at all. And when it comes to marriage I’d feel it wrong to get married without a priest.
This is exactly why i will never date a religious person. Not out of hate or discrimination, but how could we possibly share a life that we perceive in such a different way?
Guys, guys, don't complain about the religious ads. He's getting paid and the advertisers did nothing but waste 5 seconds of our life. That's a small price to pay for viewing his video.
When I was little, my mom bought me this cute pink bible that was meant for young girls. One of the passages was about how wrong it was to be attracted to the same gender, and it brought me to tears. I had never met a gay person at that point, but I was overwhelmed with the sympathy that gay people would go to hell for loving someone. I went to my mom, and asked her why God would allow this. All she said was “Why do you care? Do you think you’re gay?” I didn’t realize I was gay at the time, so I was just struck with such disappointment and sadness that my mom would have such a destructive and dismissive thing to say. I was about 10, and that’s about when I started to dread going to church. I felt out of place, like my moral compass made me less than everyone else there. Now, I’m agnostic, but it’s very hard for me to believe in any of today’s major religions when they are so sadist and adopt such a superiority complex. I’m hoping that someday religion becomes less of a taboo topic and that we can discuss it openly with people.
I tried to explain to a friend of mine in highschool that I was agnostic when she tried to invite me to church. As a former christian, I told her all the problems that I saw apperent in the bible that lead me to my beliefs. Despite bringing up genuine counter points to her beliefs, she finally told me "how can you have morals if you don't believe in anything?" Really, she was just trying to tell me that there was no way I could have morals that actually mean anything if I don't believe in her specific god. It was an extremely manipulative way to try and convince me that I was a bad person and the only way to become good, or gain genuine "morals", was to become christian. It was honestly very insulting and I'm glad I'm not her friend anymore...
@@HeraldOD It really depends on if they believe in divine command theory or not. It basically says that god is always good because he himself imparted morality upon humans. Morality is essentially an extension of his nature. or opposed to this theory, god created morality and is above it. He himself does not have to follow moral laws because he is god. (This actually justifies a lot of things that god does in the bible but there aren't a lot of Christians who believe it I've noticed lol) or there's the objectivism theory, which says that wrong and Right exist outside of god and are innate and provable. This basically says that morality is independent from god. I don't remember what the second theory is called, but some people have a psuedo-combination of the second theory and last theory. Some people also think that humans have a divine directive where morals are innately implanted into us by god, which is how many people across societies have overlapping morals regardless of their religion. my ex friend in question believed in the divine command theory, so there really was no way I could justify my morals to her because in her mind, morality was dependent on the existence of her god.
I haven't watched your channel in years. Not because I don't love your content, but I think TH-cam just fell out of my bandwidth. This video just came up in my recommended videos, immediately watched it, and was immediately reminded of how important your content was in my early 20s in deconverting from Christianity. instruction manual for life was like a final blow to a crack that had been forming in my belief for years, and literally brought me to tears, and atheism as congruence and transition to atheism helped solidify my thoughts and identify the processes occuring within my mind. I know this video is years old, but I saw that you're still coming out with content, and that makes me incredibly happy.
A preacher says to a computer scientist: "You will go to hell when you die unless you accept Jesus Christ!" The computer scientist responds: "Don't you know that goto statements are bad programming practice?!"
@John Doe Oh my god another one. You can't deny, they can create nightmares. I swear, half of what you learn of ti-basic is all of the ways to never have to use a goto statement.
@John Doe I never said you did! I was just recounting when I first discovered a memory leak, before I knew what they were. And then sifting through incomprehensible code that you have to jump across constantly to understand to find the open block. Or how just having a long enough program and making it go far enough through the code to get to the called lbl that it bogs the whole thing down... What can I say... I was 12, they handed me this crazy lookin thing that does a bunch of stuff and I figured "Let's make it do ALL of the things!" XD I'm surprised I remember. But as soon as I saw 'goto' it shot me back in time almost 20 years. I almost quit. And then I got some shooter game compiled in assembly... and tried again to replicate some parts of it in basic. And that's when I realized I had to learn about the magic of assembly. And then... I longed for the simple days of ducking goto's lol
@Ska Noob in programming, but goto is a function used in coding, and is pretty much the easiest way to do most things, is the first thing that most people learn and you would be amazed by the amount of stuf that you can do with just goto commands, the thing is, it only works for amateur and really short code, it easily bleeds on to the rest of the commands, mess with the cache, makes the machine work o ton more than needed, is redundant, and there's always a more specific comand for whatever you're trying to do that will do said things several times better and without problems, you can think of it as facebook, has tons of functions in it but there's a better app for almost every single one of them, it's just that they are more focused on a single thing so most people just stick with facebook so they don't have to learn to use each one, even though in the end making facebook work properly is almost as hard if not worse. Long story short, you don't want to hire a programmer that submits their code full of nothing but goto.
As a theist, I completely agree. The second I saw the title I thought, "Yes. Finally someone's saying it". I don't care that's it's from the perspective of an atheist. There are some beliefs, most I'd say, that aren't worth respecting. I definitely respect the hell out of this video.
What a way to be contradictory, first you say that you agree with what is said on the video and then you go on to say that "there are SOME beliefs that aren't worth respecting", admiting by definition that some others, or at least one, are worth it (I suspect that yours falls in that category), this leaves me thinking that either you didn't understand a single thing of what this video is about or that you did but you are a hypocrite
@SedDeSangre For the rest of the thread; when I say "Christian" or "Christianity", I'm referring to a belief I would roughly define as: "Following the Bible." If a belief is suggested to be christian, but is outlined as disgusting to God in the Bible, it is not Christian. If you've experienced a so-called "christian" stating something as fact with no Biblical standing then they're misrepresenting. If anyone thinks that the Bible has views we should not tolerate, or that the Bible contradicts something I claim in this thread, then I'd be more than happy to discuss it. The critique of Christianity is separate from the topic of the video: That there are some beliefs not worth respecting. I can definitely see that whoever made the video is taking jabs at Christianity, most likely claiming that it is not to be respected, but I still respect and agree with the notion that certain ideas shouldn't be respected. He outlines some things that certain theists might do to try to gain a following, but none of any of them are Christian values. From an atheist's' point of view, the quotation, "If they're based on unsubstantiated phenomenal and fallacious arguments, I don't [have any rethinking to do]," might sounds like an anti-Christian statement. But considering Christianity has substance and arguments and historical evidence, even if these things are not always utilized, this statement is extremely pro-God. Obviously, when a book that appears to be a Bible is on display as he talks about unrespectable claims, it's to be taken as anti-Christian. Without the imagery, however, "illogical views do not require mental traffic" is an extremely pro-Christian take. He also put up the phrase "He's real to me" on the wall. If anyone were to believe this - that God's reality is subjective - they'd be wrong. It's Biblically inaccurate to suggest that God is real to some and not others. Again, not really anti-Christian at face value. I think he was more so arguing that God's not real at all, but still. He attributed a quote to the straw man theist, saying, "If you let me make my truth claims unchallenged, I'll let you make yours." Again, any Christian that thinks this way probably hasn't read a page. If you can't be challenged on your views, do you really understand them? I don't think(?) I need to go over the 'become un-criticize-able by instilling fear" argument. It has nothing to do with Christianity in any sense. If you think I haven't provided enough in this thread to counter this idea, let me know. He goes over the idea of a parent using power to instill religious beliefs. "At which end of the spectrum would you put a parent who threatens to burn its children to declining to worship it?" If this is how a parent passes their religion to their child, their religion is most certainly not founded in Biblical teachings. The Israelites were called to "utterly destroy" nations due to the fact that they were literally burning children - a view that is undeserving of respect. "The most urgent cases are the ones who threaten violence when questioned, resisted, or ridiculed." Again, threatening violence when questioned is not substantiated in the Bible. Seeing as the topic is on parents, I think this verse appropriate: Deuteronomy 6:20-21, ESV: "When your son asks you in time to come, 'What is the meaning of the testimonies and the statutes and the rules that the Lord our God has commanded you?' then you shall say to your son, 'We were Pharaoh's slaves in Egypt. And the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand...." - The proper way to respond to questions is to tell the truth. No violence and no "I'm not sure, I just believe." (That being said, if you're not sure why you believe, it's significantly better than not believing. You should just know why.) The next piece of emotional blackmail the creator of the video talks about is guilt, saying "My beliefs give me comfort - can't you just leave them alone?" - If Christianity was just a belief system to ease the pain of suffering, it would be much more sunshine and rainbows. If the point was to comfort you on your deathbed, why preach of Hell? Why preach that it is a Christian's role to take on suffering? One of the most important lines in the Bible is in Matthew 16:24. "Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me...' " - When Jesus was to be crucified he was made to carry his cross up a hill. It is to say that suffering is linked with following Jesus. If the goal was to believe something that would make you happy about the suffering in life, it would be better to say: "Kick your feet up and eat grapes all day. Do not deny yourself, but instead do whatever sexually perverted, gluttonous, evil things you desire. Everyone is going to heaven when they die anyways." At this point we're only 6 minutes into the 22 minute long video. To summarize what I'm trying to say: The video itself might present itself as anti-Christian, but from what I can gather the individual ideas of the video, if they were to be taken at face value, are not at all criticizing Christianity. I wanted to explain why the points made are not anti-Christian, even if the video might come across that way, but I think I'll stop here. If there is something I've missed - something specifically critiquing a Biblical view, or any other point someone would like to challenge me on, feel free.
@densch123 At the same time, to disrespect a person for one part of their personality is pretty iffy innit? A christian guy can be kind and respectful and not try to convert you, while an atheist can be a cunt. There's a lot more to take into account than just belief when you're judging how much you should respect someone
I tend to lose some respect I would otherwise have had for someone as a result of their religious beliefs... it is hard to take someone seriously if they are a committed believer in something so unbelievable.
densch123 this comment right here is the reason why religious people rather be with a imaginary but at least mindful one than a bit of a judgmental asshole like this.
@densch123 what the FUCK does pedophilia have to do with that? In what way is believing in a God, ANYWAY at ALL comparable to pedophilia? Explain that to me. On another note, believing in a god and believing in a floating sausage are not comparable, science does not disprove the existence of a god, but it sure as hell disproves the existence of a flying sausage or whatever the hell you are on about. Science says NOTHING about the supernatural, period, it does not disporve or prove anything about divinity or existence of a god. And if science truelly does disprove the existence of God, how about you, idk, show some examples of principles of science that dosprove the existence of a God, considering you're the one making the claim here.
People forget, or maybe just never learned in the first place, that respect is earned, not intrinsic. It doesn't matter if you're a peasant, a doctor, a police officer, a soldier, a senator, a king, a president, etc. you must earn respect with your every action and word. Respect isn't about *what* you are, respect is about *WHO* you are. This includes respecting a belief. It doesn't matter if it's a belief in the Christian God or you genuinely believe in a god someone just made up 5 seconds ago, that belief has to stand up to the facts or it isn't deserving of respect.
@@Groggle7141If you admire someone just because they hold a position of power over you, you're very liable to be convinced to do terrible things in the name of that being. Actions should always be judged first and foremost.
There are two types of respect. Respect as a person (basic human respect) which we must give to everyone and respect as an authority which must be earned by exhibiting expertise in a field or knowledge or skill. You'll find people that use the phrase "you don't respect me so I won't respect you" to actually mean "you don't respect me as an authority so I won't respect you as a human".
“It is impious to say, ‘I respect every religion.’ This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven.” - Fr. Michael Müller
No angels, no Jesus, no god or god's, no Yahweh. Christian "faith" is defined as belief with no evidence. Religious faith is vacuous and for the gullible. But, even if faith was at all a reliable pathway to the truth - which it is not - any faith based truth is undermined by the book on which the faith is founded. The book is ridiculous, often badly written, sometimes well, but obviously, fiction. Genesis creation is obviously wrong from the very first line and is based upon other Middle Eastern myths of the time. Life on Earth before the sun? Earth created at the same time as the heavens, "In the beginning", Really? The Earth was formed 4.6 billion years ago, the heavens, 13.8 billion. The Israeli government sent archeologists to find evidence of the Exodus, and couldn't. No record of Mosses or a large Hebrew presence in Egypt at the time. Was Mosses a mythical creation? It looks like it. The most important Jewish documents, the ten commandments, destroyed by an incompetent god, who didn't ensure their preservation. It's all fiction. Apparently, not until their god told them not to murder/kill, did the Jews know it was wrong. And yet the ten commandments are revered as the ultimate morality. What nonsense. No Egyptian record of Joseph and the famine. Noah's flood wasn't noticed by the Egyptians and Chinese, that you'd have thought would have been recorded. The Egyptians and Chinese carried on their cultural practices as before. The Chinese never looked like Middle Eastern immigrants and their unique writing endured when they should have been wiped out. And, there is no evidence whatsoever of the children of Noah, filling the world. We homo sapiens are out of Africa, with finds of our species dating back 230,000 years. Not the 6,000 the bible alludes to. The line of Pharaohs continued. Indeed, at the time of the global flood the three great pyramids of Gaza where being built either side of and during the alleged time of the flood, and yet, construction was not interrupted and no skills lost, despite everyone drowning. Is that because it's all a fiction? And, mummification was not interrupted and skills were not lost by the flooding and the almost complete extermination of life. It's as if it's all been made up, god and all. And, after witnessing the flood and allegedly filling the rest of the empty Earth, with lands empty of people, there is no evidence they took their Yahweh religion, customs, culture or language with them and replaced the Egyptian gods or the South American gods of the Inca and Aztec civilisations with Yahweh. And, Yahweh didn't make it as near as India, where they had their own religious practices. Confucius, in China, predated Jesus, and the Yahweh god never made an appearance in China at all. The whole bible appears to be a fiction, creating a god that was similar to, but more powerful than adjacent Middle Eastern gods. A case of my dad's bigger than your dad mentality. But it's fake. Again, the bible is inconsistent with our knowledge of the world but, can be seen to have been a fiction composed by a purely Earth based, local to the Middle East, ignorant tribe. In Genesis there was water without the sun. There was day and night without the sun. The musings of an ignorant tribe who didn't have access to a real god, clearly. Adam and Eve and their children would have had to have had an incestuous relationship to reproduce. And, this story contradicts the fossil record, the DNA record and, the proven evolutionary record. Especially fossils such a australopithecus afarentis, 3.2 million years ago, homo-erectus, 2 million years in existence, and neandathal, some 500,000 years on this planet, and many others. Indeed, the DNA record also contradicts the Noah bottleneck of human and animal genetic diversity. Adam and Eve's creation is told twice and differently. There is no Egyptian record of the wiping out of the chasing army when the Red Sea parted. No one can tell us in what year the son of god was crucified or born with any certainty. No independent reports of the dead rising up and walking about. I think every scribe and religious committee would have recorded such a demonic miracle. But, nothing. Because it was a fiction, like the rest of the book, like the god at its centre. There was no census in any year that Jesus was likely born, another fiction. The closest census was in 6 AD/CE, ten years after the death of Herod the Great, who was meant to have been alive, hunting down kids to kill. Good to know that god couldn't think of any method of keeping Jesus safe, for example, by stopping the three kings from telling Herod about a new king of the Jews. Blood thirsty story, but, it's not true. Helps to give Christians a persecution complex. Jesus's visit to Herod Antipas was inserted by a later gospel writer to justify how a poor hated Jewish criminal called Jesus allegedly received a purple cloak, normally so expensive that no person receiving a death sentence would have been given an expensive cloak just to be ruined, to what any Roman would have considered a low life. A low life Jew made to look like a king bigging himself up for his gullible followers. But, it's all fiction. The Barabus character was placed in the story to symbolise a scapegoat analogy and to distance the new Jewish sect from the old Jewish fanatics who were at war with Rome. Even the name Barabbus was fictional and clearly meant to reinforce the blood sacrifice narrative. Barabbus means, son of the teacher, or, son of the father. Both the same type, Barabbus and Jesus, both sons of the father. But, the Jews blood sacrificed the good goat and set the bad goat free. So that god could sacrifice himself to himself to forgive the sin he created in the Garden of Eden. Allegedly. And, there is no record of such a prisoner freedom release thing by Pilot. Pilot was a brutal governor, he wouldn't have entertained being told who to release by these terrible Jews. The gospels were written to distance the new Christian Jews from the Jews who were in rebellion against Rome. The Christians blamed the Jews for the death of their god son, exclaiming that they had nothing to do with the Jewish murderers who were not only against Rome but against the Christians as well. That stitch up led to thousands of years of resentment against the Jews and ultimately to the deaths of 6 million Jews by the Catholic Hitler and supported by the Pope at the time. Jesus's journey to Bethlehem and back is inconsistent between the gospels. The town of Nazareth didn't exist. It was an incorrect translation of Nazarene, which means something like chosen one. It was Constantine's wife who traveled to Judea to find Nazareth and found what she exclaimed to be Nazareth and plonked a church on the site. That was 300 years later, not in the time of this Jesus. There are many major inconsistencies in the gospels, especially regarding the resurrection. No one recorded the crucifixion at the time of Jesus. The religious can't even pin down the year. The number of witnesses changes between the gospels. Judas was a made up person who name is meant to be a stand in for Jews: Judah. As was Jesus's trial that was meant by the gospel writers to blame the Jews for the death of a mythical Jesus so as to distance the bad, Roman hating Jews, from the new Christian sect, so some new wave Christian Jews could escape from the wrath of Rome. It was a political narrative. And, people say that the New Testament has a message of love. It doesn't. The first gospel was written in about 70 AD/CE, when Rome was furious with the constant Jewish rebellions, ending with the complete destruction of the Temple in 70 AD/CE and the Roman obliteration of the radicals at Masala. The gospels were a means of distancing the Jews who wanted out from the Jews who were fighting the Romans. It was a political survival treaty. The story of a virgin birth is nonsense. And later, Mary seems to forget in the gospels she had been told her son was a god son. The virgin birth was not uncommon at this time for gods from other cultures. No one during the life of Jesus recorded his existence. The gospels were written 40-100 years post the alleged death of this Jesus. Jesus's death, is not believable, which, if it happened at all or, he existed at all, was also a farce, as he would only have been up on the cross for about 9 hours, not long enough to die from crucifixion as it was designed to cause a long painful death. Usually taking as much a five days. No independent record of the star of Bethlehem. Nowhere. No record of the sky darkening over the whole Earth for three hours, not in Rome, Athens, Babylon, Persia, Egypt or China. No one has proved god actually exists. Prayer works no better than random chance. The god of love will send most people to hell. Especially those with any wealth. Today, in the West most people are wealthy compared to most in the ancient Middle East. Jesus, apparently, to his followers told them to sell everything and not bother with plans as he was soon returning to bring heaven to Earth. Yet, we are still waiting, two thousand years later. I think he's not coming? The Earth is not the centre of the solar system. The solar system is in a spiral arm of one of trillions of similar galaxies in the observable universe. Given the above, and very much more, the bible is completely flawed. "faith" without evidence is, completely undermined by the evidence. If the bible doesn't stand up to even passing scrutiny, then it's god claims should be rejected as part of its fiction.
O.K. So the best thing to do is to respect NO religion. Or how about I re-phrase it this way I respect Artichokes as much as Asphalt. I dislike Grapefruit as much as Christian Rock Music. Or since what you are quoting does not mention one single tangible thing: I dislike invisible yellow unicorns as much as I dislike 300lb invisible ogres from the 9th dimension. Oh, and on the griping hand, if God and the Devil actually DID exist, I can assure that I would in fact be on the side the Devil. He fought against a tyrant who gleefully drowned innocent children and allowed a drunk and his family of incest loving pervs to go on a boat trip.
Well of course I do since sometimes the "virtue" and "honesty" of some people can be way more inhuman and cruel than the "devil" and "dishonesty" that they say to stand against. Like that shitty priest in my neighborhood who kept raping children, fully protected by the church of course. Or the Muslim family who killed their own daughter for refusing a forced marriage and then chopped up hid the pieces of her body.
I will respect anyone’s belief system as long as they don’t pose a danger to anyone, including themselves, they don’t claim some false superiority, they don’t insult anybody else and if the beliefs don’t go against facts. Example of a belief I wouldn’t respect: “Sarah is evil and will go to hell because she wears makeup. Makeup was made by the devil and will turn her unlawful and promiscuous. I am better and more worthy than Sarah because I don’t wear makeup and attend church more often than Sarah.” Example of a belief I would respect: “I believe that there is a higher power, and that there is an afterlife. I believe this because it is a valid possibility that I have faith in and that offers me hope and comfort in my life. My faith also helps me to be a good person and to think more of my actions. I believe that behaving immorally or deliberately and repeatedly causing pain to others means sacrificing your place in this afterlife, or prolongs the time before you may be worthy of entering it” Note that the second list of beliefs is open minded and rational, does not rely on ignoring basic facts, and does not express a view of superiority other than that people who do wrong should face consequences, which is a belief that most people subscribe to (at least in part) anyway. You can still disagree with the second perspective as much as you want, but their beliefs are a whole lot more respectable.
The comparisons was nice. Reminds me of my muslim family esp my sweet grandmom, whos their drinking her tea and bread watching some news and praying when its up. At the end of the world, we all want peace and happiness. It be wrong of me or anyone, to take that beautifully thing away. Even if might not be even truth in the afterlife, people belive in what they belive in. Mby for years or only a month. We never know when is our time, so lets cherish it brothers and sisters. Our ancestors would be disappointed for the mess we did, but aswell proud of how far we have come :) Peace
@@OzCroc I get you, and i don't respect people who don't like anime. Mby 80% respect but not 100. Man of culture needs to like greatness wherever it from.
I'm from an extremely christian family, unfortunately, and i'll tell you how THEY justify people going to hell. As with most things, it is "the devil's fault". They say that all people goto hell when they die, regardless, but god / jesus will save the believers and instead take them to heaven. So by their rationale, hell is something that just happens and god is under no obligation to save or protect you unless you have spent your life serving him.
My grandmother holds that exact belief. And guess what? Since my dad left, my mom couldn't afford to pay the bills so we had to MOVE IN WITH MY GRANDMOTHER. Apart from being a nutty christian who has admitted that she has prayed that I would break my arm because I don't go to church, she's just a terrible person in general. She never admits when she's wrong unless it's on her own sick terms, she always has to blame us for something so that she can paint someone else as the villain instead of her, she's a HUGE hypocrite, because when her husband was still alive he used to forget the keys in the door which was a big sin according to her, but she has now started to do the _exact_ same things as he. My mother has tried pointing out this hypocrisy to her, but she's not having any of it. She was the one that forced my mom to marry my dad, they never loved each other and always argued almost everyday, for us children to listen to as we grew up. She's the reason I never really had a father who could guide and coach me and my brother so we could become men. She's the reason my big sister has depression and always doubts herself, because my parents would scold her like hell for the smallest thing when she was the only child. We believe our grandmother has mental issues, but she doesn't want to get it checked out because such doctors are "the work of the devil". She's the one who ruined our chances to have good childhoods, and our parents to have good lives, and now we need to live with her, saying "hi" in the morning and "goodnight" at bedtime, pretending that everything is just dandy. Fuck that. What does all this have to do with religion? I have no fucking clue. I just really needed to get this off my chest.
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Except for the fact that it is God that has created the universe and thus hell. So he is surely responsible for people ending up there. How do they justify that?
Ehhh... correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they then saying that unbelievers can't help it because satan made them not believe but they could have if they had chosen to do what they couldn't because satan prevented them to? o_O In any case they are definitely saying that people choose to go to hell and they deserve it. Just in a manipulative, sugar coated, rationalizing way.
I'm a Christian. I feel bad for you. It sucks to grow up in a situation like that. I was lucky to live in a family where we were all given the opportunity to believe what we wanted. After years of believing in atheism I came to the conclusion that the Christian faith was the right one. My father was saved a few years later. We still to this day disagree on some things ( his veiws lean towards a slightly more gnostic belief). It's great. We debate and rationalize our positions for hours sometimes. I feel bad for anyone who had a belief system forced on them. Even when I evangelise I prefer to provide someone with the relevant information that God has given me and let them make that decision. Our right to choice is among the most important to me. And I will respect that right even if I ultimately don't respect your beliefs. But I do expect you to respect my right to have that belief even if you don't respect the belief. My respect is not to your belief, but instead to your right. Religion is a funny thing, such beautiful things have been made through it, yet the same is true for tragedies. Ultimately I think we should think about the tenants of the faith when considering where we stand. My lack of respect for other religions for example comes from a time when I studied these beliefs and couldn't find the right answer. For others it's because of a sense of otherness. The important thing is that when considering these things we have to remember that even though there is only one answer to the question of why are we here, we have to respect each other's RIGHT to choose. Even if their choice is wrong. That doesn't mean I can't give them my two cents, it just means that they have to make the decision themselves. Choice is ultimately tied deeply with Christianity, it was Adam's choice that damned us, Jesus's choice that gave us a chance, and ultimately our choice to except that gift.
I was always raised with my parents telling me I could believe in or not believe in what I want, as long as it didn't bring harm to anyone. Eventually I went to live with my grandmother and the more religious side of my family. They would take me to church and I would always cry and get severe panic attacks. My family thought that I was "feeling god." I was not, I was afraid. I was afraid of abandonment and being out-casted by my family for not fitting their beliefs or standards because that's what the church told me. Being in a room with hundreds of people that would disapprove of who you are and what you don't believe in if they found out is a mind fuck.
You sound like a baby. I can't imagine you trying to stand up for yourself in University and telling all the weirdos there that there are only 2 genders. You'd probably have an anxiety attack from everyone yelling at you. No one ever was going to threaten to hurt you or get you fired/kicked out of school for saying you don't believe in God except maybe a spanking from granny. Church is comfy, the only annoying part about it is people wanting you to conform to the basic narrative and you simply say no. Meanwhile real society wants you to conform to calling a man with lipstick a she and if you don't you go to jail.
@@johntheoddity6791 You need a thicker skin if you want to survive this life. If Church was such a traumatic experience for you, I can't imagine you existing outside of a hugbox. That goes for others too who have these weird almost overly dramatic stories about feeling threatened while going to Church.
WillowThe Oddity I can tell you that we have non-believers attend our church as they go along with their family. Not one time has someone been outcast. If anything, those people are reached out to and welcomed to simply be there.
@@theuberlord7402 While that may be entirely true, and your position in this regard may be entirely benevolent, the argument you're presenting is basically "This hasn't happened to me or people around me, therefor your experience is invalid". I've never been a church goer, but my family is, and I've no issue with going to church with them when the need for my support arises. Our churches are generally very gentle places, and so I've never had any negative experiences either. But I know of many who have, and plenty of people practice their religion with an iron fist, demanding their children believe or be smacked around until they do. I can absolutely understand where Willow's fear would come from, as a child who is suddenly shoved into a room full of people who, while they may or may NOT judge them for their beliefs, present a completely different and terrifying ideology to what they're accustomed to. Being forced to sit in a room full of people singing praises to something you disagree with is plenty of reason to have a nervous breakdown, even adults can suffer this response. TLDR; It's great that your church is welcoming and outreaching. Not all of them are, and fear needn't be rational to a child.
They are created by man to organize the methods of applying the spiritual neliefcand in most cases: to control and manipulate. Religion vs spiritual Individual practice in belief does not require a Religion.
I don't know why you love it, because it's wrong. This is postmodern atheist historical revisionism. Religious cults were mandatory to social cohesion for the overwhelming majority of human civilization. This guy is absolutely railing against religion in the most biased manner possible. This is not clear judgement, this is atheistic bigotry, in the same vein that a vegan calls meat eaters murderers.
As someone who was dangerously close to becoming a hateful, conservative Christian as a teenager, I’m constantly baffled by (and grateful for) how far I have personally come in my journey with mental freedom / independence throughout my life. My parents never agreed on religion. My mom wasn’t really cemented in her spiritual beliefs- but my dad was STRICTLY Christian and conservative. Where my mom gave my sister and I all sorts of toys, from action figures to baby dolls to dinosaurs, my dad began dressing us up and taking us to church as soon as he could manage it. I have early memories of being in itchy, uncomfortable church clothing and trying to sit still in my seat while loud organ music blared overhead, so many tense holiday dinners with even stricter relatives. Church “school”, where we sat for hours and learned about “real” history- and, since I was the older sibling, I was often granted the “privilege” of attending the adult church services with my dad. As I got older, and observed my dad, I wanted only to impress him. I pretended to have the same favorite color, pretended to know why he liked Ted Cruz or Mitt Romney, and pretended to know why he didn’t trust immigrants, non-Christians, or gay people. I prayed every night, a ritual that became increasingly more obsessive as I added the name of every person I knew to the list, lest they be left out and forever damned to burn in Hell. God, I even insulted my own mother about it once. I’ll never forget the look of pain and shock on her face when I told her, in ignorant rage, that she was “just a Catholic” who didn’t understand how the world worked. I was around 9 at the time. When gay marriage was legalized, I saw the news report on TV. I was around 15, just about to move across the country and start high school- and I was angry. In my eyes, “those people” had won, and this victory for them was an attack on good, righteous Christians like me and my dad. During those years under my dad’s influence, I became bitter, cynical, and fearful of others. I hated myself, as well, and subconsciously forced down any thoughts that didn’t align with my dad’s beliefs. When our family moved states around 2016, I entered high school as a conservative Christian. We found a new church, and I sat obediently for each service as I’d always done. Then, I started to meet new people. Namely, queer people. A girl I’d recently become friends with made a comment about her being gay one day, and I remember freezing, thinking- Oh, god, she’s one of *them*. I was bitter, hateful, fuming, and all because of how I’d been raised. She was a perfectly normal, lovely person, and I was immediately blinded by rage. Days (or weeks?) later, I have a dream where I’m kissing a girl. I’m AFAB, which is something I have not stated online for almost 10 years until now, so for me, this was objectively gay. When I woke up that morning, I was overcome with the most disarming sense of peace I’d ever felt before. The girl in my dream had been pretty, the setting had been serene and beautiful, and I FINALLY was able to ask myself… What was ever so bad about this? From that point, I began to question everything. My mind was buzzing with curiosity and wonder at the reality that I’d been missing out on a whole world of beautiful human experience that was no less “pure” than any heteronormative idea I’d ever been fed before. I learned I was bisexual (pansexual, more accurately), and then, a few years later, when I graduated, realized I was also transgender. A complete 180 from the angry, fearful teenager I had started to turn into. Now, when people say things are “woke”, I don’t take it as an insult, but I feel sad for them. They’re still stuck in that state I was trapped in for so long, hating themselves and others while lying to themselves all the while.
There are three things to take into consideration when it comes to believing things: 1) The belief 2) The believer 3) The right to believe And whether or not respect is due to these things boils down to simply: 1) Never 2) Sometimes 3) Always
@@bencrossley647 Because the right to believe is important regardless of the belief in question. I support people's right to believe genocide is a proper path, so long as they're not hurting anyone. No one has the right to limit thought.
@@bencrossley647 because without freedom of thought no ideas can be challenged, all ideas must be challenged or you wind up with dogma. That's just the baseline, of course.
My family abused me in the name of Islam since my childhood. They said theyre gonna kick me out of the house if I dont believe and I was only 15 years old when this happened
dude are you sure they knew what they were believing in for real? Because someone that really knows what islam is wouldn't enforce their beliefs because that is what kur'an literally tells them to do (Simply) : Do not enforce religion because it will turn them away, (Not exactly same but that is what the point of one of the paragraph written.)
@@ahmetsalihsavas7745 You probably haven't realized but most people practicing religion pick and choose what they want to believe in anyway, it's impossible to find someone following all the teaching word by word. Plenty of religious conservative are quick to yell "god hates gay" blah blah while ignore the "loves thy neighbor" part, aren't they?
This reminds me of the time when I said I didn’t like a food. My older sibling then made a rant about how other people do like it and that I shouldn’t invalidate their opinions. It doesn’t matter if I like it or not, other people do, so I shouldn’t state my own opinion. Ironically, their rant was all contradictory in the end by invalidating my opinion. When I told them that they called me worthless. It’s strange how they could get so mad over me not liking tomatoes.
Now, I was raised a christian, in fact I was an usher in the church. Loved it there, most of the time (because it was a small and very personal church with good people). But eventually I realized my beliefs didn't align with the church. I was drifting towards athiesm. I told this to my grandma, who I would later find out is an absolute nut, actually. And she never asked me 'why', hardly wanted to listen to why actually. She just said "I pray that you'll find your way back", as if she wanted me to just disregard anything I may have learned or figured out that dissuaded me, instead just blindly turning back to religion. At the time I didn't think much of it, but as the years have passed I realize that wasn't just her own blindness, but a very deliberate attempt to have me pull the wool over my OWN eyes. I love her to no end, but thinking about how that interaction kind of hurts, that she questions my intelligence like that.
The short version of my story is that I am a Christian but find myself at odds with several things, including hell itself. Initially, I only watched and read sources that painted all atheists in a super negative, anti-intellectual light, but as I am inclined to do, I wanted both sides and found myself here. The deeper I dig, the more nuanced things become.
the wadge of sin is death for all have sinned and fallen short to the glory of God if God gave us what we deserve were all going to hell jesus came to save us from our sins God gave us free will to chose either evil or good because he wants true love committing one sin is punishable by death yet God is giving us time to repent God is holy holy holy nd he is good and good hates evil all murderers deserve hell but God is so good that even liars go to hell jesus lived a perfect life he was even tempted by lucifer yet he didn't commit any sin he was the perfect sacrifice jesus didn't have to die in the cross if we are not sinners
I am a Christian as well, and I think it's good to investigate. :-) One thing I would also suggest to you is to broaden the scope of your research beyond Western (i.e. Protestant and Catholic) sources and also take in what the Eastern Orthodox Church has to say too, as some of their positions on things like Hell and "original sin" can be fundamentally different from those of the West.
I’m also christian, and I believe that, in a debate or otherwise any kind of judgement or decision, one should consider both sides from both side’s perspectives.
@Max Sharpe fair point, the generalisation I made was too far reaching. I would still suggest that for every adult joining religion later in life there are more who leave it, but I have no actual proof outside my life experiences, which are no more valid than anyone elses.
I would imagine we could get some hints of an answer from some of the European countries as they have slow down some religious indoctrination. My very personal experience is that it just may be so. I was indoctrinated into catholicism and it took a long time to get rid it. My wife comes from an Atheist family. We decided not to bring our children into Religion and be as truthful as possible. Science has been a big theme for us. What I discovered was how much christianism has penetrated our public schools, it's nearly in everything that has to do with the English language and my kids had no concept of any of it. They had no clue whatsoever about Noah, the pope, the talking snake, the bible, and on and on. They would ask question and I would tell them what the stories were, treated as mythology. Once I related the stories, they were always baffled! many times laughing in disbelief. One day my teenager daughter asked me about this Jesus birth thing. (Both of my kids have been schooled in sexual education without religious entanglements) I started explaining the story and then, she, suddenly had enough, her eyes were wide opened in disbelief; she rolled her eyes like I never seen before and just walked out on me. No thanks, no thanks she uttered as she walk out. She has refused to talk about it, I would really like to know why the reaction. I believe, without basis, that when you bring up young minds early into Science, into the reality of the natural world, into facts of the factual kind (not the alternative one), perhaps there are aspects to the natural world that just make common sense and that to convince you of an insane proposition you may need more than just a ludicrous story. I cannot say that my kids will not be religious one day, what I can say is that it would be very surprising and if they do, it will not be because their parents indoctrinate them.
@@doctorwhy6504 I was schooled in Ireland and it's very difficult to get a secular education over here. Most every school teaches Catholicism, but the funny thing is that it doesn't have the same pervasiveness as it used to, despite that, and I think it's because parents don't force it anymore (mine didn't)
My parents used to make me go to church with them when I was young. The pastor's wife once told a story about how she got sick for several days after watching a soap opera, and only stopped being sick once she stopped watching the soap opera. She believed that God had decided to punish her for sin of self-indulgence, for engaging in pleasure that wasn't strictly religious. Within the same sermon, they laughed at other Christians who believed that drinking soda and who believed that owning nice pieces of jewelry and watches were both sins of self-indulgence. All of those examples really made me question why having those small amounts of comfort and pleasure would be bad, why they thought that they would be punished, why the god that they said created them wouldn't want them to have any joy in their lives. It was one of the contradictory points that solidified my disbelief in a god- that this god who wanted his creations to be happy and healthy, didn't want them to be happy and healthy.
they're mostly stupid anyway... what kind of dimwit thought that if D happened after A it automatically means A is the cause of D..? They should redo their whole education, and this time, actually pay attention. What a joke of an adult.
@@lastyhopper2792 "Correlation implies causation," is a really easy fallacy to fall into for Christians, it seems. My parents are pretty smart people, I'd say, but sadly they believe some wild stuff and ignore some rational stuff. My mom, who aced all of her history and science classes, once repeatedly screamed at me, "you're a liar!" because I mentioned that snakes used to have legs. She believes the story of the global flood and Noah's ark. My dad, also a straight A student, doesn't believe in climate change. He believes the story of Adam and Eve. Their religious education has made them into irrational, ignorant people. So I agree, change up the study style, or maybe switch schools 🤠 (Sorry for the long rant 😅)
@@Adasvers I'm not sure what make, model, and year of Bible my parents' church had, but their interpretations were definitely out there. I think every denomination thinks that about every other denomination though lol
@@lastyhopper2792 that implied they had an education. some people do not get the luxury of an education and instead get indoctrinated into believing everything their church says.
The most frustrating part for me: knowing that even if everyone in the world watched this video, it still wouldn’t change or free any minds from religion. But it’s crucial to never stop trying, even if people are stuck in their ways. Thank you for this.
Yeah, no. You’re acting like religion is a barrier keeping people from being “enlightened” or whatever, which is evident from the fact you say “free any minds from religion”. Most of the stories I saw in these comments were definitely bad and shouldn’t have happened, but they are exceptions and not the rule and I say that as a Christian. None of what you’re told in these comments happens to 90% of Christian’s.
You say this as if religion-Christianity in particular-weren't responsible for the massive development of science, the establishment of schools and hospitals, the initiation of the abolitionist movement, the ethical and moral progress of societies, and the improvement of relationships and mental health. This is all information that can be gathered from scholarly sources such as books and research papers. I highly suggest you look more into it before assuming that religion is something to be "freed" of.
If someone asks you if their significant other is beautiful/sexy... Just respond with, "I can totally see what you see in them, and I'm so glad you're happy"
Except that's a lie... i speak honestly and don't have to lie for anyone's sake. I've been asked that qwestion once by my best friend and i said look man i don't see what you're seeing but I'm not the one dating her... you are, my opinion has no value to your relationship
Little detail but as a disabled person I appreciate the inclusion of a wheelchair user in you models!! As well as just this video as a whole, I never knew how to word how I felt about this and you did it flawlessly!
@@xhylus4374 ofc but ive seen people that go agains the society just bc they dont are "included" in every single media, all programs, everything. i mean that cant be it right? maybe is smth more complex?
@@sarunightamber701 how is the idea of enjoying seeing someone you can relate to anything but just that. How is this lost on you? Or are you being obtuse on purpose?
When I asked my grandpa for if I should be sent to hell for being atheist, his response was “I hope God gives you a 2nd chance to repent your rejection of him”. I could easily tell how uncomfortable he was with the concept of hell. EDIT: looking back, it made more sense that he didn’t like me being in hell. I cont know why I said concept here…
@@emtheslav2295 As much as I agree with the videos premise, might I insert some insight? The modern beliefs of regulations and moderation are nigh identical to the pasts beliefs of being judged, the question is should you ALWAYS have a second chance or not? Some studies show being entirely irregular (with your health excreta) leads to regular issues (with the same thing). The same premise applies to ones evident "damnation." Now for the question, in modern times, it is somewhat completely your fault for a problem, and some weight should be put on those around you aka society (like in societal issues). meanwhile the older method puts the entirety of a fault on your savoir and/or yourself directly. You should always be given a second chance in both methods... somewhat. It's really only a matter of need, because the inevitable pushes the need for second chances and it is human to believe in the inevitable.
Without ability to criticize beliefs, we risk leaving people trapped in the bronze age, where they may risk corporal punishment for not bowing and groveling to an unseen narcissist. Not criticizing can also lead to personal stagnation, and even death.
Technically most Bronze Age religions were polytheistic, ritual-based (as opposed to doctrinal or scriptural based) religions which were specific to particular cultures and/or states. And very few had punishments for NOT believing. After all, it would be really dumb for an Egyptian whose favoured god was Ptah, to punish a Hathor devotee for not worshipping Ptah. Religious based persecution only seems to start when scriptural doctrines, and the belief that 'my god(s) is/are the ONLY god(s)' enter the equation.
My favourite religion is Quakerism (bearing in mind I'm an atheist myself), I've always found the idea of a religion without dogma fascinating. My understanding is that within Quakerism no measure of belief is required, one's relationship with God is *entirely* personal and may well involve agnostism or outright atheism. What is important is a) community and b) living by humanist values. It seems more like an active philosophy than a religion in the traditional sense.
@@paultapping9510 Hmmm... Idk. It's just something that i thought of when i first read this thread. Sorry if i hurt anyone. I should be more careful. :/
Hi. Even as a Christian, I do not understand why God does what He does. However, are you as smart as God? Do you have all wisdom, knowledge, and morality as to decide what is true, good, and reasonable? Is not true that your life (like every other human being's) is plagued with faulty judgments and bad moral decisions? How, then, can we pretend to possess the wisdom of the ages? If you don't, why do you trust your own opinion, seeing how you lack wisdom, knowledge, and morality? Yet, Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshiloh "However, are you as smart as God?" Hi. You have the wrong question. Am I as smart as the bible? Certainly so. It's not god that says this happens or is justified. It's the bible saying god says so. Until the bible can be demonstrated as the word of god, then it only makes sense to treat it for what it can be proven to be. "Do you have all wisdom, knowledge, and morality" No, and neither does your Bible. It's teachings are demonstrably bad for some people. "How, then, can we pretend to possess the wisdom of the ages?" I don't. I possess the wisdom of hind-sight and centuries of scientific advancement. Something which is massively demonstrable, unlike the Bible. "If you don't, why do you trust your own opinion" Because I make sure that my opinion aligns with what is demonstrable, and thus produces consistently accurate results, by all testable measure. Sadly, when the bible is put up to the same tests, it fails massively and appears completely out-of-touch with any of it's unique teachings.
@@kenshiloh Our brains are wired in a very specific way. We only react in the way that we do because of what we have experienced. Everything we do is for a reason, and with that logic we are condemned to our fates from the moment we are born. If you are born in a horrible place lacking any form of justice, whether moral or lawful, and you turn out like your environment propped you up to be, is it just to burn your soul for eternity when your god himself would have foreseen these events? Are you comfortable with the fact that it is entirely possible for something out of your control to happen and for you to spiral into a different, nastier person who gets sent to hell? Seeing all of the past, present, and future *everywhere and anytime* is the very definition of omnipotence, of being god. Your god would have seen the terrible monstrosity that humankind turned out to be, he would have seen every single individual in the planet's entire story, he would have seen us writing on this comment section about his existence and methodology. He would have seen it all from the very beginning. Yet, he still condemns us as though we are not his creations, who he propped up to turn out like this. If he made us in his image, I truly fear for what sort of narcissistic, sociopathic God we might have. Truly considering all of this, how can you say that your god is truly holy, all-knowingly wise, and just?
This reminds me of when I went to a pregnancy center for STD testing, only finding out after I booked my appointment it was a Christian facility. I got my results from the midwife there and had a conversation with her (as much as I would have preferred to just leave after getting my results, I felt rude doing so in spite of what I am about to say). It was...quite the conversation. She knew I was gay because the questions had asked about the sex of partners and such, and the conversation essentially boiled down to "I don't agree with you being gay, but I hope you respect that belief [that I don't respect you]. I think God sent you here on purpose." People throughout my life have told me that I need to respect other people's beliefs, but why would I respect the beliefs of someone who resents and hates the existence I did not choose? No, I won't respect racist people's beliefs just because they're family. No, I won't respect homophobes, transphobes, or misogynists. They do not deserve respect. I will respect beliefs that deserve respect-and condemning other people but still "respecting" them is not something worthy of respect. Also, thank you for the graphics in this. People in wheelchairs, a (probably) gay couple, etc. It's nice to see this stuff done without it being made a big deal of. Of course, I'm making a deal of it now, but only to show how much that stuff means to people.
It's also a state of cognitive dissonance because they are basically saying "I don't respect(agree with) your existence but I agree with your existence (because of god)" which is such an obvious contradiction.
@@diamond852 It depends on what we're discussing. "Disagreeing" with LGBTQ people existing is disrespectful. Telling us we're "wrong" or "broken" is not okay and is immoral. Homophobia, transphobia, racism, xenophobia, sexism-they're all one in the same. It's a little grey when it comes to religion, of course. If you "disagree" with a religion or a religious organization in that you simply don't believe in it, that's not an issue. If you "disagree" with them in that you think people who subscribe to those beliefs should be harmed or are disgusting and blasphemous, "heretical" and worthy of disrespect, execution, forced conversion, etc. then that's an issue. Now, if a particular religious organization or even religion (though a whole religion being like this is less common than a particular church, temple, group, etc.) preaches hate and you don't respect it for that reason, that's also another story. I hope I explained that well. If I didn't, do let me know.
@@sammysammyson sometimes the Christians taking littarely to a book outdated for our society are left behind. You happened to meet one of our kind with the inability to understand the basics of our modern world which has evolved past the primitivity of our anscestors and giving us new ideals to question. Sorry you had to experience such an example of stupidity and outright inability to differentiate millenia old texts from modern society and evolved understandings of said texts passages. Have a good day and I hope such stupidity never falls upon you for that would be a shame (shame not only upon the religious like myself but upon humanity)
As a Christian, this video was very humbling, and also constructive. The case made against the notion that Christian belief deserves respect (or any other religion for that matter) simply because it would be more convenient for the Christian was made all the more potent by what (I'm guessing) is the underling motivation for arguing this point in the first place: to equip others with a defense against an overbearing religious rhetoric which demands respect and even honor, while itself giving nothing of the sort. That said, I want to offer some thoughts on the bible quotations and the interpretations of them. I hope this won't come off as pedantic or that I indulge in the "overbearing religious rhetoric" so often employed by people like me. Rather, I hope these thoughts will be in keeping with this spirit: "To increase the frequency of moral behavior throughout the world requires that we think; that we question and reason and discuss; that we gather good information about the needs, the benefits and the harms involved in a given situation; and that we're willing to review our assessments as new, relevant information emerges." (14:29-14:46) Thus, my main point is that it seems that nearly all, though I hesitate to generalize, of the theology presented in this video is very conservative and fundamentalist. Furthermore, though I don't think this was the intent by any means, but the bible quotations and references don't support the thesis of this video well given the wider context those passages therein. 1. Deuteronomy 13: 5 & 15 (8:20ish) This passage does in fact command execution for the worship of other gods, BUT this only applies to the Israelites. This passage is referring exclusively to the people of Israel (who had previously made a covenant to follow Yahweh), prohibiting Israelites to worship any other god but Yahweh. It does not however extend to non-Israelites who have no covenant of loyalty. To understand Deuteronomy, it is crucial to understand that the entire book is a public oration by Moses to the people of Israel, of the entire covenant between Yahweh and Israel. In the Ancient Near East, covenants, not uncommonly, contained mortal consequences for breaking certain articles of that covenant. For the Israelites, Yahweh makes it clear that worshiping other gods is the most severe breach of this covenant. Anyone is free to interpret the Bible however they please, but it would be misleading to present this passage as a Christian (or Jewish) command to kill ALL those who don't worship Yahweh. 2. 2 John Ch1: v9-11 (8:29ish) Unlike Deuteronomy, 2 John is (predictably) a letter from John to a fledgling house church. This letter is mostly addressing John's concern for the rise of deceptive Christians. We see this in verse 7, just two lines earlier. "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh." (Trs. NASB2020) John is worried about this vulnerable church. This is not a command from Jesus or Yahweh. This is a suggestion from John not to allow these people into their "...house or welcome them." (v10) To my knowledge there is no command in the Bible by Jesus or Yahweh, to shun or disrespect or to be otherwise inhospitable to non-Christians. Though, I'll be the first to admit that Christians can be some of the least welcoming to difference or discomfort. 3. Matthew Ch 25: v41 & John Ch 3: v18 I'll address these together as they were used together to make the single point that Christians believe that those who don't believe in their religion are condemned to hell. This is a very complex topic and one that Christians and non-Christians alike should handle with great humility and caution. Anyone, Christian or otherwise who confidently lays out an "official" theology of hell should be observed with equal skepticism. To be clear, I don't think it is the intent of this video to lay out such a theology. The main point here is that Dante's Inferno is great literature and very bad theology. Hell in the bible is first and foremost a metaphor, and this is not some fringe progressive Christian stance, but one commensurate with historic Christian orthodoxy (I recommend reading N.T. Wright for this). Hell in the Old Testament is always translated from the Hebrew word Gehenna (or Ben-Hinnom). This is a real place near Jerusalem, it's a valley; the Valley of Ben-Hinnom (later, when the near east was Greekified Gehenna became Hades). This very real valley was the trash dump of Jerusalem, and many scholars think that before the Babylonian Exile it was on fire 24/7. Additionally, during some of the darkest periods of Ancient Israel's history, wayward kings of Israel would sacrifice children to other gods, which Yahweh specifically said he abhors. When Jesus refers to Gehenna, he describes it a place of total darkness and blazing fire. See the problem? It can't be total darkness and full of fire at the same time. These can't be literal descriptions of some subterranean torture chamber because the language of Gehenna is already a metaphor as are Jesus' descriptions. The post-mortem destination of non-Christians is ambiguous in the Bible, and for good reason. It's just not the point of Jesus teachings. His agenda just is not to announce the promise of a "good place" for all those who know the secret password (praying that they believe John 3:16) and the promise of a "bad place" for all those who don't hear about the password before they die. For a better explanation read "Surprised by Hope" by N.T. Wright or his smaller work "Simply Christianity" To wrap up, my goal with all of this is not to provide a bullet-proof rebuke of TheraminTrees' presentation of Christian Theology. Let me say that again, I'm not trying to prove him wrong. I actually really agree with his overall thesis, and I especially agree that we should be VERY SKEPTICAL of anyone who goes around claiming that their belief system employs "execution, social rejection, and ultimately eternal torture" for those who don't agree with them. That is why I want to encourage everyone, including theraminTree to be take the long way 'round this topic. I tried to do that by providing examples of just how complex biblical passages are and to show just how enmeshed the Bible is in its historic, cultural, linguistic, and interpretive context. There are plenty of awful things done by people who adamantly claim that their actions are informed by the Bible or Jesus. They are a not a good source of Christian theological study, though they are a source of very real suffering for many many people. Grace and peace, Timothy
Indeed, and I find it sad that a lot of Christians behave this way with unbelievers and believers themselves. I thank you for your humility to address this video for it's righteous's perspective. God bless you !
We're pretty confident that Moses never existed, and we know for a fact that the Jews were never enslaved in Israel. That was manufactured whole cloth.
@@GenesisTheKitty well yeah, the Bible is not a history book. Pretty much all of the old testament is just legends or metaphors telling you how to live your life and be a good person
@@rredy I would not describe the old testament as telling anybody to be a "good" person. The morals of the old testament are questionable at best and explicitly genocidal at worst. Even if we say the homophobia is a mistranslation, the old testament is still comprised of deeply sadistic texts. The God of the old testament tortured Job and took everything from him just to win a bet with the devil. The God of the old testament wiped out all but 8 people from the face of the Earth due to their "wickedness" even though he's supposed to be omnipotent and could have easily prevented it from being necessary. The God of the old testament decrees that women who become pregnant by their rapist should be forced to marry them. The God of the old testament punishes children for the sins of their fathers, a good example being when king David gets another man's wife pregnant and God causes the woman to miscarry as a punishment to DAVID. To be fair to that specific point, the entire religion is built on the idea that a couple of our ancestors a long time ago did something God told them not to and now we deserve to suffer for it, so punishing the child for the sins of the father is at the very core of the faith, but I find it to be quite distasteful.
"If you're claiming any Gods exist, then you're making a truth claim, about a reality of which I'm a part and it's your burden to substantiate it." Bravo! Seriously, that sums up so much, so well. That one is added to my list of all-time favorite quotes.
Exactly, since as babies the first thing we realize is there is a world, and our first belief is we can learn something about the world (and) universe. They need to show evidence that a god exists, because they claim to understand reality more than someone who just witnesses the world as it is. This of course, doesn't address the mentality of the person, some people have much empathy, and others feel very little for others, they have apathy. So there is a difference in people..based on their mentality, people usually abuse empathy ... as you can see by the news head ''feminist says we need to stop using facts, and start using emotions as weapons and the authority'' People who don't understand emotions then collapse into such a mentality will assume they are oppressed or demons are haunting them or god hates them etc..etc..etc. and that's when you got so many people converting to religion or brainwashed into it. it's all psychology and body language, paranoia..hypersensitivity.. etc..etc..etc.
How about millions of people trough out history claiming to have experienced it? Just crazy people right? All of them describing the experience in very similar ways, some even giving you road maps to experience it yourself? Can you substantiate how much you love your kids? This is the problem with Atheism, it's 100% materialistic and therefore denies any part of reality that is not overtly materialistic, so they also have have to believe that emotions for example are not part of reality, which is a completely warped world view. Where does consciousness come from? Can you prove you have consciousness? No? Guess you're a robot then. Can you substantiate your belief that death is a bad thing? Or are you just taking that on faith? So many places where Atheism is just a flawed world view that lacks any kind of philosophy, and it clearly shows in it's lack of imagination. Without imagination we will stagnate as a people and a society, and that makes Atheism little more than a death cult who worships the material. I can't prove to you that I think or feel, hell, I can't even prove I'm real and not just a simulation. And neither can you, your whole idea of "reality" might not even exist if we're going by the evidence. Which makes your whole argument of "a reality that I'm a part of" worthless since you can't even substantiate this reality or that you're a part of it, you could just be something I'm dreaming, or I can be something you're dreaming, and there is no real way to substantiate any of it.
*"I would rather believe that my grandmother who loved me dearly ceased to exist after her death as a conscious entity than spending an eternity being tormented in your God's hell for her sopposed crime of not believing in said higher power...with the former end result her humanity is preserved in my memory".* - by an aethist believer
@@sixgm227 And so do you believe I and other nonbelievers deserve eternal damnation? Do you agree with YOUR God that is a just fate, to be consigned to an existence of unending horror?
So if God is not right, there must be non existence in the afterlife, since we can imagine only His afterlife and the only alternative is nonexistent. We are still too attached to monotheism.
@@mavrospanayiotis I'm skeptical of ANY religion or any ideology that makes claims of an afterlife with ZERO evidence to back such up. Sure we may not be able to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no life after death but neither does that mean there HAS to be an afterlife. We simply don't know, but what we do know is that religions like Christianity or really any belief systems certainly can't claim whatever they think happens is the truth, well they can but no one has to believe in all that to live a long happy life.
@@navilluscire2567 i believe in all religions or, at least, in any "sacred experience" that consciousness offers. The fact that many people have not such experiences (or at least they just ignore them as hallucinatory) is clearly not a problem: their experience is just different and they deserve respect for their conclusions vased on their experience. Yet "non believing" in a modern western way is deeply rooted in monotheism; its essence is not about what particular god you worship but its exclusive relationship with the truth and believing that the trusth of others os just lies, ignorance, misconception etc. That's why i restarted my thought system with accepting sacred/mystical experiences as true, unless they bring privilege to some people, are forced to others, proclaim to be the only real thing. For atheism instead i accept the simple fact that not everyone can or should feel compelled to know everything or everybody... if you never met a sacred/mystical experience that is part of your being and cannot be brought against you as some wrongdoing.
I'm a Christian. I really enjoyed your video. I question my faith all the time, I try to learn more. It's the only healthy way to follow a religion. Blindly obeying is always shallow. I'm fine with others not respecting my beliefs. From your perspective, I'm probably the most ignorant guy alive. I accept that reality. Totally understandable.
For a bit of context, I deserve hell as much as you do. I believe in Jesus, which I believe saves me from that fate. Unfortunately, many Christians act entitled, like they somehow earned their own salvation or something. That's stupid.
Iron sharpens iron, mate. I've found one of the best ways to affirm my faith is to answer criticism honestly, finding strength through difficult questions. You can do the same. All we need is in the bible. I love you, and I'll pray for you.
@@jimijenkins2548 Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Before getting baptised, what held me back was uncertainty. I thought if I did enough research, I’d disprove God, which I didn’t want to do. Upon doing more research, I confirmed my beliefs. I made sure not to blindly accept, too. I’m reading snd trying to analyse some of Lee Stobel’s stuff. Edit: when you do research, you can never be 100% sure of anything. Keep analysing. If you choose to believe in God, you will receive the Holy Spirit that gives you certainty. Of course, that does not mean stop questioning. It is never healthy to do that. But just because evidence against God has been presented, does not mean there is none that support God. There is more than you realise. God gave it to us. Study apologetics and do NOT avoid science.
may i ask you a question as a muslim? there is something i need to know. did you feel any guilt or any negative feelings when you first questioned your faith? because i feel like most religious people teach each other to not question their faith because that could mean we're questioning God or something like that.
Growing up in the UK, we're taught that all personal beliefs (especially religious) must be given unconditional respect, and for a long time I took this as a given. I was never religious myself, but I viewed any criticism of religion as taboo. Three years ago, this video helped me realise how flawed and problematic that view is. It really changed how I think about religion and beliefs in general. Thank you for making it.
As a child, my parents had a very power-based parenting style where they would punish me for questioning Christianity. Some of these included, "Why does God make good people go through pain?" "Why do bad actions get rewarded in life? What does God do about this?" Instead of answering it, they punished me and said I was sinful. But I still wanted answers so I turned to one of my pastors and he said that I should not question it. Finally I went to my trusted Christian friend, and to my surprise he gave an answer to almost every question I had "Being a good person is almost always going to be painful. It is easier to take the easier route, but that is not what God wants us to do. Doing the right thing will always hurt in some way, but it will influence the people around us and encourage them to do better." Even the few questions he didn't have a definite answer for, he encouraged me to seek further for answers and to come to my own conclusions (which I eventually did). He encouraged me to open up my own small worship circle at a different Church where people were free to ask questions and give answers to each other and not have their curiosity shot down. Tl;Dr: Had my questions about Christianity shot down by parents and pastor, but got answers from friend which encouraged me to do the same for others. P.S. If you ever have questions about your religion, you have a right to ask those questions and to draw your own conclusion. It also might reinforce and strengthen your belief like it did for me.
Wow you had a horrible experience with Christianity, when I was Christian one of our church school teachers said “you should challenge your beliefs” and that we shouldn’t believe in something without giving it some thought first
Good for you man, I’m glad you had a friend that could honestly care about you. These questions are fair and shouldn’t be shot down, which is in contrast to what my friend in the video believes happens exclusively in religion. I’m happy that you are sure of your salvation
Oh wow I was expecting another horror story but I have been very pleasantly surprised. I'm very glad you built your faith up on God's will and you will be blessed for it
@Lex Bright Raven yeah its hard to open the blinds and face truth.. "people are lying to me about my religion and refuse to tell me the truth, so i ended up trusting my religion more without looking for real answers."
As a Christian, I appreciate living in a secular society because my beliefs are often challenged which can be difficult but healthy. It feels like people in very religious societies can become numb to thinking and just accept whatever since there are no major deviating opinions. By being challenged we could either deduce that we are wrong, refuse to listen, or strentghen our beliefs and seek to understand them better. It is not fun being ridiculed, but I prefer that to a totalitarian society where no critizism is allowed.
I was at a study on the gospel of John this past weekend, and it ended up in a discussion about gay rights for some reason. It was almost a half and half split about people believing gay relationships were good vs a sin, but we all agreed that regardless of what you believe about it, we have no right to take away that option from others, as God gave us free will. It was very refreshing to see a civil discussion that was on such a hotly debated topic in Christianity and no one insulted each other for their beliefs or interpretations, and I believe that is how challenging discussions should happen, with both sides in the room and not trying to speak over each other. Challenges are important, but far too often end up in one side getting bullied by the other.
Well said. Unfortunately, the most totalitarian, evil, manipulative, societies are atheist. As listened to the this speaker when ever he made a claim about religion I could not help but think about atheistic China, the Soviet Union, Pol Pot's Cambodia and North Korea.
@@fortheloveofnoise Of course. But that's a hard discussion to have in a youtube comment section. But this explains eloquently why alt-right poltical views should not be respected.
I definitely agree. But in the last few years I've learned quite a lot about politics and history. And when it comes to US/Western politics and political history it gets a bit tricky. Much like religion/superstition, there's been a significant amount of intentional manipulation of historical people, places, and events. Especially regarding labor history, or our 'peoples' history. As Karl Marx once said, “The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production..” This is now more true than ever seeing as how just six (6) corporations own/control more than 90% of our media (TV, radio, newspapers, periodicals, etc.) In just the last four years I have discovered more about our history than I had previously known (or thought I knew) in more than 30 years on this planet. If anyone experiences a negative internal reaction to just hearing the name Marx, this is in part what I'm talking about. But of course it's much more than this. As Erik mentioned, it's not easy to have this conversation in a YT comment section. There's been a deliberate effort to obfuscate much of the labor struggles of US workers, and of others around the world. You may have heard of some of these efforts (like the C|A's own 'Congress for Cultural Freedumb.') But I hadn't until very recently. It's extremely insidious to say the least. And it infects every corner of political science/history in the US. I've already taken up too much space here. But in case you're still reading, I'll end it with something from someone who's work helped me and others better understand this history: "History is given to us by the 'conquerors' or 'winners.' And if we ever do hear from the conquered or 'losers,' it is through carefully-tuned filters." -Dr Michael Parenti
@@ericklauridsen9353 also leftist Muslim forced acceptance. Literally what the video is about, we should not be forced to respect Muslims beliefs for any reason
When our daughter was about 8 a boy at school asked her if she believed in God. She said "No" and he said "I'm going to beat you up." A true Christian.
Hello! I’d like to apologize to you for a comment I made on this video perhaps 2 or a 1 year ago, that was a time where i was heavily religious and I felt offended by this video, I was stupid back then(still perhaps am now) and I have changed my views because of videos like this, for that I thank you.
Let’s look at it this way…even though you were under a spell, some part of you was seeking truth even if you didn’t even know it. Coming upon that truth rocked you to your core. But here you are now with eyes wide open! Be glad!
Ideas should *_all_* be criticized. Every single idea ever (including this one) should be held under the microscope for close inspection. Any parts of it that don't check out should be changed or tossed out. Even after close scrutiny, it should always remain open for further examination. religion is no different. The problem is with religions that (like the vast majority of mainstream religions) claim to be written by God himself and so are flawless and need no revisement, they've put themselves into a bind. They can't just throw out a part of it because that would be admitting it wasn't flawless, and so couldn't have been written by a perfect being.
@WHY YOU ARE AN IDIOT Oh wow. You actually believe the earth doesn't have a core? Next you'll be saying it's flat and gravity is a hoax created by the world's governments for some unknowable reason. And newsflash, not only atheists believe in modern science. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together does.
@WHY YOU ARE AN IDIOT _you act like atheism is different they believe in a bunch of stuff they can't prove lol they actually believe a core exist inside the earth lol_ 1. Atheism isn't a 'they'. Learn to grammar. 2. 'They' are also millions of theists and even theistic scientists, so go fuck yourself. 3. Atheism is a rejection of a claim, not a belief. 4. Atheists believe all kinds of different things, including but not limited to: spirits, flat earth with no core, reptilian conspiracies. 5. With the right tools it's easy to prove that the earth has a core. You just need to have some knowledge about wave propagation to be convinced by the methods used to prove that the earth has a core and to know what the densities are at various depths and you apparently have none of it. 6. If physical evidence is the best evidence than you should reject your god. The bible proves that your god is either not loving or non existent. A loving being wouldn't make belief in something you can't prove a requisite for paradise, nor would it demand worship like the biblical god does in both the old and new testament. A loving god would see that these things would slow down progress by taking away the focus from the actual world and it would see the dangers in making yourself vulnerable to charlatans in these ways. So you're either a coward, worshiping a maniac or a backwards idiot, or both.
I am a former Christian that recently came out as a lesbian. Imagine my grief, having to deal with my mother praying against my very nature. I haven’t even told her I stopped believing completely, and she just thinks I’ll walk happily back into a doctrine that believes there is something wrong with me wanting a girlfriend/wife.
@@cl0p38 things are much better now than they were. I don’t expect to see her at a wedding if I ever get married, but not nearly as bad as before, thank you.
@@Tinkify16 at least in your country you can marry if you want. In my country it is prohibited, and homosexual couples can't even adopt a kid, because if you want to adopt a kid you have to be married. And I live in europe.
@@kpisti680 I’m sorry these are things that other countries have to deal with. In reality, we only just got to this threshold in 2018 when our former President Obama legalized gay marriage. But it’s still barely a win, because they continue to try to take our rights back. Everyday is a fight, and we are trying to fight not just for ourselves, but for everyone else everywhere.
@@Tinkify16 don't let the difference in belief separate you from your mother If your mother is truly a Christian then she would not let your worldy choices separate you both And you too even if you don't believe anymore the fact that you are created by a being of Love shouldn't stop you from spreading Love You probably needed that break from Religious stop if its affecting you negativly
when i first find out there were 3 Billion people who believed i should be killed for being an atheist and when i said "you all crazy" they replied with "hey respect my beliefs!". this is as if a murder said "you will die" and you say "i am innocent what did i do?" they reply with "hey respect me" respect someone who is going to kill me?
i dont want to come off as mean but I'm genuinely curious where you got this idea that Christians think you should be killed for being an athiest. I'm certain that if you talked to any genuine ones they would not say that
You're making an incredibly huge generalization by saying "3 Billion people who believed I should be killed for being an atheist." That is not at all what Christianity teaches, and if any so-called Christian has ever given you that impression, then I'm sorry on their part, for that is not how Christians-or anyone for that matter-should be talking to anyone. No, you shouldn't be killed because you're atheist. The truth is, all of us should be killed, because we're all sinners. But God loves us sinners so much that He came down in the flesh to take the hit for us even though we deserved it, pay the price for us even though we deserve to pay it, and free us of our punishment, therefore reconciling both justice and love on what is now known as the cross. Please reconsider Christianity and look at channels like InspiringPhilosophy and Give Me An Answer, I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised by how logical theism is, logical enough to warrant some of the most brilliant scholars' faith. God bless you.
@@kpisti680 Of course. I have lost part of my respect for some people for things about their beliefs. Still treat them like human beings, but I judge them silently and am a lot more wary of them around me in case they want to metaphorically stab me on the back
I have many good friends who are theists. I may respect my friend's honor, his valor, his courage, his generosity, his sincerity, his commitment, his family values, his honesty and much more regarding his personality, but I do not respect his theist beliefs.
I respect people's beliefs only if the belief does no harm. I have no issues with people believing there is a god, or an afterlife. But, you must apply your beliefs in a way that has minimal impact on others, regardless of what you think of them.
Beliefs don't deserve respect unless they hold up to open scrutiny as neutral at worst. Beliefs shape behavior. Even if not affecting people immediately, they shape actions until they do. But don't downplay the person. As someone once said, "Respect people, not beliefs."
Either they are purely kind to themselves and all others. Or they practice self harm, religion causes them to ignore science and reason. Or they are complete dicks, acting hateful because "god tells them to"
but even "respectful" beliefs that are wrong can still lead to problems in society when you ACT upon those beliefs. And all beliefs you believe to be true, are beliefs that will ultimately effect your actions. Now, that doesnt mean you have to be HOSTILE towards other people, but you should still point out inconsistencies when they appear. You shouldnt just let poor ideas or beliefs slide by without criticism. People still have a right TO those wrong beliefs, but you should still criticize them where they appear. (and obviously in the right time and place, its not always the right time to argue beliefs im not saying to just do it whenever or anything).
@@eragon78 Fair point, yet again we have to ask what beliefs could be harmful. And even then, if somebody sees a belief as harmful when it isn't. That could cause problems.
I quite agree. One should grant a reasonable, small amount of basic respect initially. After that the person's words and deeds then should either diminish this respect or enhance and grow it further. Beliefs, ideas and ideologies SHOULD absolutely be scrutinized thoroughly.
finalfantasy8911 There actually IS a logical reason why the default position should be to extend a BASIC LEVEL of respect. That's the key term here. I didn't say the default should be to extend all of your respect. Respect is mostly earned, no question about that. What I mean with a "basic level of respect" is common courtesy, and civility. The logical reason for that is that we live in a society, not in a bubble and if we want such society to have a basic level of peace, civility and harmony, by default you give people some initial level of respect and then build from that "earned respect". That's what I mean. By default you shouldn't "respect" everything someone says or does, that respect is earned, but you also don't cut someone off who's standing in a line just because you feel like it either. Maybe this clarifies a bit more what I was referring to.
Hey, how you going about deciding which humans deserve your respect is up to you, but no idea ever deserves respect. If someone asks you to respect an idea, they are asking you to not criticize it, which only makes sense if you want to believe something that is not true.
"The earth isn't a globe for me and flat for you" "Where would you place a parent who threatens to burn a child who doesn't worship them" SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!
I regret forgetting this lesson, but I had a teacher, and she explained to us that in some ancient cultures, some namely ones were in areas between China and Korea, India, and Central Africa, and in some Aboriginal groups in Australia, wiser folks strictly monitored different belief systems (their teachings), and the people that resulted from them (aggressive, docile, stable, unstable, conquerers, peacemakers, arrogant, humble etc). That for their needs, different regimes within the culture, would teach their children based off of their beliefs of different systems, the belief systems that suited them for their needs. So if a belief system or philosophical teachings/reasonings resulted in kinder and more docile people, someone might construe it as weak, particularly during times of war, and would seek a belief system or philosophical set that would result in more aggressive, violent, or angry people. Or vice versa. There was even fights within families what children should be taught and followed (ex the teachings of Buddha vs Genghis Khan). Only colonialism hit these countries (India, Africa, Australia), or devastating invasions that wiped out the cultural traditions (Japanese, Chinese invasions), and this, for the most part, went down the drain. But it's interesting that religions that has a long history resulting in violent or intolerant people such as Christianity or Muslimism are not conceived as such despite the overwhelming history behind it.
This is giving me "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your *informed* opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant." vibes and I love it. Respect the person, not the opinion/belief. The quote is from Harlan Ellison btw. He was quite the douche but the quote is fucking golden. EDIT: I think at this point I should add the fact that I posted this nearly a year ago. I'm a teen. I change a lot from month to month, because I'm growing. I don't really stand by what I said this comment, but I also like reading the replies, so I'm not gonna delete it.
technically everyone is entitled to everything, but other people are also entitled to react to that in any which way. The very notion of being "entitled" to something is quite stupid. There is only what happens and what doesn't.
"it gives me hope for internal conflict" really touched me. you genuinely want them to learn and grow. you genuinely think about who they are, why they think this way, how they can improve. i always wanted more of this in my life. this is my first time watching you, but i adore what youre doing already. dehumanization like this seems to have seeped its way into normal life, even without any religious context, the kind of fallacies that lead people to believe that one should be eternally tortured for something that tends to be ultimately harmless are still at large. it seriously makes me sort of lose hope in having a social life at all. but its these little sparks of hope, hope that theres more understanding people out there, that keep me going. thank you.
@@profile1172 What makes sense, makes sense. No matter through which medium the information is presented to you. As all mediums can be fabricated, you must find the truth. Go read your newspapers or something lmao
I'm a Christian but despite that, I agree 100% with the assertion that all beliefs should to be subject to criticism. Without criticism, how is it possible to determine what you actually believe? Athiest or religious, I think asking questions about what you believe is the most important thing you can do, and having others present you with difficult questions is a gift
I had a really smart priest tell me the same thing once: It's GOOD to question your faith and beliefs, because it helps you figure out precisely what it is that you believe, and by extension what/who matters to you. I was still Catholic at the time, so I asked him "but what if that makes me lose my faith?" and he responded that ultimately, that would be ok because being a good person is more important than being a good christian. Now, that answer was probably technically sacrilegious but I thought it was brilliant lol. After all, I think that's basically the point of spirituality/religion anyway! (I mean I know a lot of religions _say_ that belief in the "right" God is a big deal, but if God is real, and is as loving as he is purported to be, then God would never turn a good person away from heaven just because they didn't believe the right thing... that would not be loving at all. Otherwise, there are a lot of issues, to say the least. For example, what about all the people that existed before Jesus was even born? Are they just royally screwed? Those poor Mesopotamians never even had a chance 😂 ) edit: fun fact -- that priest was one of the few married Catholic priests on earth! He was a Lutheran priest, realized he wanted to be Catholic but also really loved his wife, so he had to get permission from the Pope lol. Kinda weird they make exceptions for that, but I'm glad they do!
I am a firm believer that shielding oneself from criticism to try to cling to a faith of an individually weak foundation is among the more stark forms of stagnation as a person.
@@idontwantahandlethoughI'm a convert to Catholicism. It's actually standard to offer protestant converts that are already married, but feel the call to become priests, to be married priests. The prohibition of marriage for priests is not a moral issue, but a pragmatic issue, so there's really no contradiction.
19:10 To a theist, a lack of heaven could be considered hell. I’ve heard multiple Christians say that the “torture” in hell is simply god’s absence. And to that I say: “like my current life?”
I saw something like this on a video by a guy who goes by the pseudonym Inspiring Philosophy on TH-cam when he was addressing the subject of hell. He was like placing your priority on anything else besides God is hell itself and I found that problematic. Infact there are so many things wrong with that video but I can't verbalize them in words, I wish someone can help me articulate my thoughts on that video in words.
No because in your current life you have people around you that can help you and you still have a chance to be with God. once you die, you can't just change your mind. If you go to hell then you will be forever without even the tiniest sliver of hope, love, or peace.
Lack of heaven/god is hell for them, but not for you. I think it's a bit of a misunderstanding between those theists and you. To you, no heaven and no god is your normal life. This absence of heaven or god is something neutral. To them, no heaven or god would be losing a big part of their life, and losing a reward they had been promised since their early childhood that protected them from fearing death. It would be losing a part of their identity that might comfort them. It would be a loss. So they would see it as a negative instead of a neutral. So that leads to a situation where they're sorry for you and you're just like "what? I'm fine!" It seems like they don't understand that if they lost their belief in god, they could just base their happiness and identity on other things, and be just as fulfilled, because they've been taught there's no way anything will fulfill you more than their god.
@@MythicBeanProductions we do not need a chance to be with your god. We do not believe he exists. We do not believe hell exists. We have no need to live in fear of something that isn't proven to exist. Simple as that. Your idea of what will happen to us when we die doesn't really affect us you know... Doesn't "help" either.
It's funny that religion only works as long as you never question it until its too late. I attended several religious schools as a young kid and they'd have you singing hymns and attending church. I _was_ a Christian until I was around 7-8. Then I regurgitated some crap I heard about rainbows being God's gift to my mum and she explained what they really were, and I just ended up questioning everything else too. Soon I realised that nothing I was being taught made sense. I was the only atheist I knew of in the entire school and the other kids kept asking me why I didn't believe. I hate that they resort to indoctrinating children from such young ages. Unfortunately that education is the standard in my country of birth.
I wish that was my upbringing. Imagine if your Dad beat you for blasphemy for asking questions about prisms and rainbows, and mum and family still go to church, and insist it's all real, and any questions are met with punishment for backtalking and blasphemy. Now, add in the entire small town community.
yeah this is the problem with religions. they never got updated and new knowledge never got retconned into the teachings. you can weave God into the big bang theory, adam and eve doesn't have to be homo erectus or be the first ape ancestor ever. science can be woven into bible teachings to help expand knowledge and strengthen belief. islamic golden age gave birth to many inventors because they're curious about the world yet their faith to Allah are still as strong
I used to be radically anti religious, but as I got older and my understanding of the world increase I began to realize that a system of beliefs like a religion is only as good as the people who take part in those beliefs. As such I choose to support those who give their beliefs a good name while decrying those who give their beliefs a bad name because it is my opinion that those who give the system of beliefs a bad name are ruining it for those who don't or those who could potentially find fulfillment in them but are turned away by bad people. Now lets see if my views line up with this video or whether I need to reconsider them.
did you reconsider? i personally am an agnostic/ light atheist. idk if there is a god or not but there is no evidence for one so there is propably no god. even if we know that there is a god i would propably not pray to him. in my opionion people should keep their believes to themself. you dont have to show it or tell other people about your believes. dont indoctrinate children let them chose when they are older and when they ask you what you think you can tell them.
Sean I can really respect that view! It is frustrating personally how some people’s actions discredit my beliefs to the secular person, but at the same time no one is perfect, which is one of the first things Christianity needs one to recognize. There is a balance ofcourse, and no one gets away with anything, but the concepts of forgiveness and grace, such as any theoretical understanding, takes time to comprehend
Loltimex, I would like to suggest this. Remember, those with beliefs believe that it is the absolute truth. Even though ones understanding and knowledge grows over time, we believe that what we believe is the natural state of the world. Your point of view states that the natural state of the world is “probably” without a god. So my point is, from my perspective that is not a natural/true view, yet you suggest raising children with the “neutral” view of not believing anything. But to the believer, not believing anything IS an indoctrination in of itself. The nature of all biengs is for the older and experienced to pass on to the less experienced, seen in the case of children and their parents. There is NO neutral view; our function is to pass of what we believe is true, just like you would teach a child not to eat poisenous or rotten foods.
@@Cbawls if a belief can't be changed no matter how much evidence disproves or conflicts with it, I'm not convinced its a good belief. I do wonder how many people would still believe in God if we definitely knew he didn't exist, or how many would deny his existence if we proved him to exist. Even then, how many people would change their lifestyle one way or another? I think if God was proved to exist, thiests' tendencies of supremacy and violence would be exaggerated, while if we proved his non existence athiests would just be casually arrogant. As we, honestly, sometimes can be already.
"But we have to acknowledge that this is exactly the kind of thinking that got us into this hellish place, making up whatever we want to believe" thanks for this one. I always struggled defending against people who don't follow certain peace's of religion.
Descartes already did that. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, especially when there is no one now living who can claim intellectual equivalence with Descartes.
if we challenged every belief we would have no time to eat or sleep. Should we start double checking every scientist's work to see for ourselves if they were right? Or should we trust and have faith that the education system is producing sound scientist's.
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thanks for this. My mother was a christian scientist and didn't believe in disease. my family "respected her beliefs" when she found a teeny, tiny lump on her breast that could have easily been removed with surgery. Instead of doing that, she decided to heal it with Christian Science. she lied to her family and told us she had taken care of it. She did nothing but read christian science literature as her lump get bigger and the cancer spread. All the while keeping her family completely in the dark about what was going on with her.
she continued this in the face of stage 4 cancer, believing that a "deeper understanding of christian science" would heal her. These beliefs were so strong that even when I would urge her to get treatment she refused and told me that *my* belief that she had cancer would prevent her healing. Which is why she didn't tell anyone until it was too late.
Christian science didn't heal her. And the people in this religion that she loved so much abandoned her at her time of need. Her last few months were spent in pain and suffering because she refused even the most basic pain medications. No friends or anyone from the church visited her. She barely talked to me or anyone in the family. She just read her christian science literature and called her practioner (christian science "healer") who also abandoned her shortly before her death saying she was too steeped in "materia medica" (aka modern medicine) because she had taken some morphine for pain. She died at age 59. Christian science is a dangerous belief system. It should NOT be respected. It needs to be challenged, especially when there are children involved. It makes me feel really sad to realize how much neglect is steeped into this religion.
Thanks for letting me post this novel... clearly I needed to get this out.
Your story fills me with twisted spite and sorrow. My own mom is a practicing Christian Scientist, and she... got pretty unhealthy. Autoimmune disease, of all sorts of kinds... Scar tissue in lungs... Not eating... She was wasting away in front of us and seemed blissfully ignorant and perfectly resigned to her new fate. I am not sure how she has made the recovery that she has made, but... it is painful, sympathetically and empathetically, to hear about your mother. I was worried I was going to see the same thing happen to my mom... The thing for us was that there was no real treatment. They could throw NSAIDS at her and antibiotics but it was really just a formality... Our medical system is an abysmal failure when it comes to complicated, deep diagnosis... I honestly had more confidence that a shaman would do better for her than a doctor with what I was hearing from her care providers. Somehow she is getting better. I an grateful to have pretty open communication with her and I believe that her letting her family in her bubble, with encouragements that didn’t always line up with her interpretations of “proper christian science” may have kept her foot in the door for actually trying to get better. Hearing about your mom... And especially about that fucking snake practitioner. I am sorry. Having been raised a Christian Scientist myself and exploring a number of other beliefs as well before becoming atheist at 15, I would have a number of choice words to positively lambast that piece of shit and his fucking excuse for spirituality. I know a couple of very good, wholesome Christian Scientists who I think model their religion very well and very moderately, but I think that more often than not people either just naturally turn to medicine anyway (in our house there wasn’t even a question - if shit happened, doc visit. For the kids, spiritual healing was reserved for an upset stomach), or they go the blissfully-ignorant route... that invites you to hate a part of the person that you love as you watch them fade, smiling, into the abyss. No. WAKE THE FUCK UP, I want to say to them. Even the founder of their religion Christian Science would crucify them (figuratively) for their inaction. Reading a god damned book and hiding from the truth is not what it was meant to be. My interpretation from my own study and rigorous bible/S&H study in group with a locally highly-respected teacher was that really CS was meant to be closer to a secular religion of meditation or prayer, even the founder says “don’t do nothing” and that she thought making a religion about her study was completely misguided. If one is dying while commitedly practicing exclusively CS as a treatment, then WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING CONSTITUTES “NOTHING.” I want to spitefully scream it into the face of those people. However, the desire to do so is replaced by a defeated sorrow, because if one can’t get through to another, who wants to then force their will on their ailing loved one? It feels like there is no way out. I hope that you can forgive yourself wholly. It is of the utmost importance, and it’s always what our lost loved ones want. It is not wrong to reflect, as life goes by, on how things may be handled differently. It is good to learn from these experiences and use them to bring good into the world, as painful as they are... but first and foremost, our loved ones want us to love ourselves, and forgive ourselves. I know your mom would want the same for you, as mine would have wanted from me if she had passed. To do so... I would try, I think, but I am very grateful I have not lost my mother like this because I known it would be hard. I hope you have found it to be within your reach... For you, I send you an internet hug. I would rather no one would have to say goodbye to their mother for such an enraging and defeating reason. I hope that the sensible Christian Scientists out there can stir the pot a little bit, and say loudly to one another, “Hey: there is nothing wrong with medical treatment. It’s literally a part of our literature. If you are sick, and not getting better, GET HELP. Christian Science, you can work on all your life. If you’re watching yourself lose a battle with cancer or autoimmune disorder though, for the sake of your family, your friends, and yourself... GET HELP. If it isn’t working for you, stop beating a dead horse and FUCKING HANDLE IT. Ignorance and neglect are not a part of God’s plan for you. Responsibility and self-love are and if you are forgoing treatment and losing, then self-love and responsibility ask of you to re-evaluate, find help, accept the help, and you can continue your study, but do not do nothing.”
Best wishes to you and your family. I hope you can all find healing, and that you keep up your strength and fill your heart with love.
My condolences
There is no endorsement of “Christian” science in the Bible. Your mother was deluded by ignorant fanatics. We have been provided with doctors for the healing of sickness, why should not a Christian accept that gift? The woman who touched Jesus and was healed in the New Testament first saw doctors to treat her condition, when they could do nothing, she came to him.
Zoe Bird I also apologise however, as I did not know that Christian Science is an actual twisted branch of Christianity. Normal Christians do not believe in Christian-based science, just science, which really doesn’t not contradict our belief system apart from certain debated aspects.
.... sorry about your loss and your mothers delusion....it is easier to fool somebody than to convince them that they are wrong... believers in nonsense would sooner be dead then wrong... i wise man told me you have to Be wrong first to Be ‘right ‘..... Christian Science is a oxymoron.... if there was a hell, well you know the rest.
"Respect is earned, never commanded."
-Some drunk guy I met on public transportation
Wisdom whether drunk or sober :-)
Wise ol drunkards
Common decency is given as a default but it can easily be lost.
Respect is something a person has to earn
They say a drunk mind is a sober heart
""Respect is earned, never commanded."
-Some drunk guy I met on public transportation"
-Some high guy I met in a youtube comment section
my philosophy teacher once said: respect people, not opinions.
Can you help me understand this? Can I respect a person who has the OPINION that 'women should have no rights' for example?
I believe that I can't respect the person due to their opinion.
I don't know if I am understanding correctly?
@@V_2077 man this is really hard. caring for people can actually entail to not care for people that cause harm. Thoughts and beliefs aee not intrinsic tho so there is a small chance to "save the human and kill the monster"
I believe that we should respect people who have done no harm to others. We shouldn’t respect some who have done harm verbally, psychologically, physically, etc with intent because they have harmed others that are a part of your reality and have gone against human morality, thus not being able to earn respect.
Respecting a person with harmful opinions is ignorant. Why would I respect a person whose opinion is, for instance, that homosexual couples shouldn't adopt children when that is objectively a helpful thing. Similiar opinions also spread hate against a minority that deserves none in the first place. If the person doesn't respond by correcting themselves and their view when faced with facts disproving their statement, what reason is there to respect that ?
How does one get accepted by people when they're never accepted in by people for their beliefs? For example you have 101 people looking at a coloured paper, 50 say that the page is black, 50 say that the page is white, but one says it is green. And all 3 parties disagree with each other. What should the individual do?
If someone honestly thinks that what they believe is true, they should also think that it would hold up to scrutiny. To deny someone questioning your beliefs you also to deny your beliefs.
As a Christian I absolutely agree with this, I’m consistently trying to listen to atheist speakers and such attempting to debunk Christianity.
@@ianmcelmurry2882 how come you are still christian? if you are looking for an argument that can debunk god, there isn't one because religious people will always find an excuse. you should realize that god has no arguments FOR his existence. the only argument they have is just that he is above all logic and blah blah blah, thats just the dumbest excuse ever
Christians actually need people like these to develop in their faith, because without foundations to fall back on when being under scrutiny, your entire worldview falls
Unless it’s a civil rights issue, no one should have to accept someone questioning their human rights
@@thebuilder5271 Human rights deserve protection and codification. They are not supposed to be violated.
What really broke me was second grade at a lunch table. I went to a Catholic school for grades k-5, so we had just gotten back from religion class (church but framed in a classroom). We were talking about the lesson of how if you don’t believe in Jesus you go to hell, and one of my friends says, “so my dad is going to hell?” (His dad was extremely nice and helped out a ton at the school but was still atheist) the table went quiet and everyone was to justify it. I still remember that moment to this day.
yea I hate that kind of belief...I personally believe that you can choose a religion that matches up with your moral code, so that you'd do the most amount of good in your life, and live peacefully
Because just blindly having faith in the religion that you simply 'believe' in isn't the best for the person or the people around their life
I remember as a child i would purposely mention that I don’t believe in god just to make other kids mad and say I will go to hell, even from my friends. I was a weird child.
My perspective of god is that people don’t choose some things in their life. If you are a psychopath by nature you won’t be judged by a sin that you don’t have control of.
God want his morals to be followed, but there is various ways to interpret himself. That is why you don’t put a symbol in gods name, people will interpret its appearance in different ways and all of them are right.
When you don’t believe in god you still believe in something, we can’t as humans think about the “non existence” or death, so i think you go towards what you believe, being heaven a place of “peace”, and peace is different for everyone.
So atheists won’t go to hell, well, at least no if they followed the simple morals and were a good person when alive.
@@whisperywind314 Ohhh that's an interesting belief! I agree with you on how it differs from person to person, since God would sometimes wire our brains differently.
@@whisperywind314 you can believe in something without perceiving it. I can neither perceive an eternity in heaven nor an eternity of nothing so to me god and death have an equal chance of being real. I just choose to believe in the one that sounds more peaceful to me which is death. I dont understand nothingness but i think when i die i will be nothing. The electrons that moved throughout my body will disperse and I’ll just be dead
“Respect my beliefs”
“Ok, but then you have to respect my right to criticize those beliefs if I deem them to be dangerous”
or if I feel like it
this comment explains it all.
Now the question is do I have to respect this comment.
Just a question, how do you personally deem someone believing in god as dangerous?
@@threemashup2662 If they advocate for the death of non-believers, or persecution of those who oppose their ideology.
I think a lot of people use the phrase "respect my beliefs" to mean "respect my right to believe these things", which is a different concept but one I'm much more willing to work with.
This, exactly. And in addition to that: "Respect my right not to engage with your attempts to convert me." I believe in the Big Bang, the theory of evolution, etc., but I have evangelical Christian family members who believe various forms of Creationism, "Original Sin," etc. I "respect their beliefs" in the sense that they can make a Facebook post about something religious, and I *DON'T* feel compelled to debate and argue them out of their beliefs. That's it.
I wouldn't want them making it *their* goal to persuade me of *their* beliefs, either.
thank you for this comment, i feel it was necessary
This is exactly what I was thinking!
People are the same with free speech.
Freedom of beliefs is not freedom from having your beliefs criticised - it is simply the freedom to choose what to believe without legal intervention. If you believe that I will suffer eternal torture because I require proof of your god(s), then I will criticise that belief.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from having your words criticised - it is simply the freedom to choose what to say without legal intervention. If you say racial slurs and/or queerphobic slurs, I will criticise those words.
I firmly believe that freedom of speech and belief are two of the most important human rights, simply because it creates change as a natural element in culture and society. But that does not mean I endorse racism or religion.
@@elise205 I realize that, as legal principles eg. in the US First Amendment, these only apply to *legal* repercussions and *legal* intervention. But I disagree that they should stop there. The government isnʼt the only group that can totally mess up your life and shouldnʼt actually do it.
If you can get fired for your religious views, then you donʼt actually have religious freedom in practice. If your landlord can evict you if you speak out about some controversial political position, you donʼt actually have freedom of speech in practice.
Just today I learned that a blogger I like just deleted his blog because the NYT wants to write an article about it, and they plan to use his real name instead of the pseudonym he uses. The *government* doesnʼt care what he says, but his employer, customers, and Internet randos who hate his blog enough to want to send him death threats do. In practice, he does not actually have freedom of speech under his real name.
Sure, you should be able to criticize peopleʼs beliefs and words; thatʼs what this video is about. But saying that freedom of speech and religion are only legal ideas, instead of also being moral principles, goes too far in the other direction.
You can believe what you want. I can criticize your belief. But I should not fire you for it, or evict you, or dox you; itʼs not enough that I just refrain from arresting you. *That* is what I mean by being willing to respect your right to hold a belief, and it is just as important as being able to criticize the belief itself.
„No authority is beyond ridicule“
I like that
There is an asterisk on that rule. Except our authority. If you ridicule our authority, we ridicule you
If you had authority and somebody ridiculed you, your reaction would be the same as anybody else’s reaction in that situation. The book Animal Farm by George Orwell explained that most people would eventually become just as bad as the bad rulers they overthrew beforehand.
@@ΑθανάσιοςΚΥΡΙΑΚΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ-θ7γ what authority?
Ridiculing isn't something good, the only reason why we accept Ridiculing is that because it might be valid criticizm and not hate speech, but we don't know therefore we treat it as valid criticizm. Not all rediculing is productive and good.
@@omerkaya545
I just like the statement because I think everything should be able to be made fun of.
Depending on the circumstances, *everything* can be part of a joke.
I've always liked the phrase "Your right to swing your arms ends at my face." Religious freedom is good, no one is arguing against that, but the moment what you believe directly or indirectly harms someone, it deserves no respect.
I've never heard this phrase before but I really like it. Thank you for introducing me to it.
@@mistyhusk No problem, lmao.
Religious freedom is bad. People shouldn't have the right to believe falsehoods
That's why I always say: I have no respect or tolerance for a religion that doesn't respect one's humanity.
We're animals and have emotions and instincts.
So saying Lust and pre marriage sex is sin is ignorant of human nature as a species. Marriage isn't natural, it's a made up social construct thus has no merit of judgement or right to.
Honestly even swinging an arm right in front of anyone and not hitting them can be considered assault depending on the Intent.
The belief that someone should be infinitely tortured for a finite crime is unquestionably immoral.
Thats not the point. The point is to either choose God or to be without God.
@@theopaul931 And be infinitely tortured by your finite decision if you choose wrong.
If your God wants us, mere imperfect mortals, to suffer on Earth and eternally in death, for the crime of doubting and erring.
Then I'll gladly put my faith in the Devil, after all, he only punishes sinners.
@@VillackDeSage If you are going to criticize then do it properly. The devil is no punisher, in fact him and his angels get the worst of Hell's tortures. All your choice is, is to live without God and that is what it is.
@@theopaul931 Right, but to be without god is to be condemned, right?
In first grade a girl who heard that my family wasn’t religious came up to me at recess and said/yelled “Do u know who made the world, these classrooms, everything? God! My grandma didn’t believe in God and now she’s down under, burning and screaming, but nobody can hear her! You’re gonna end up like her!” and i cried lol. It especially sucked bc i already feared that my family and i were going to hell due to being brought up surrounded (it felt like) by christianity
Yeah this is what religion does
Ahh what ‘love’ god shows us humans :) I hope you’re better she sounds like an absolute...
@My Brand oh I thought she was older than OP
r/thathappened
I'm sorry, but what 6 year old would go around saying that, pfft.
@@mangled_babe it's really possible tho-
I have legit seen kids up to least 11 years old tell people that
This guy’s ability to articulate his deep thoughts so clearly is such an incredible talent
Not really when he's had hours to piece together his sophistry/opinions and asserts them like they're fact.
@@harryz81 I know you THINK people challenging you is them stating something as fact but the adults are talking and you should take childish arguments to the short table.
@@NotSoSerious69420 Having childish arguments was on your mind first, it is likely your insecurity. How would you know if anything he said challenges my beliefs? You can't read minds, you twit.
@@NotSoSerious69420 come on a child can think of a better reply than that, the guy is stating his opinions as fact same as religious people which makes him as bad as them.
@@anasmohamed6013 if you’re unable to see the difference between this guy and religious people, I’m sorry, but you’re not very smart. Stating something ≠ implying it’s a fact. He just states stuff never implies it’s factual in fact never implies much of anything, gives you the information and his own personal conclusions but it’s ultimately up to you.
Personally, when I say I respect someone’s beliefs, it’s shorthand for ‘I respect your right to believe what you want’. I’ve always thought that this was what everyone meant by that.
And where it's shorthand for 'respecting a right to hold my beliefs’, I respect that right. But it isn't always shorthand. Very often, as discussed in this video, it's used to communicate that others need to capitulate in some way to an individual's belief - eg observe their ideological taboos. That's where I draw the line.
@@TheraminTrees Me too. I do not bend the knee to magical sky daddies of any kind. I hold human dignity to be sacred but not the dignity of any religion to be sacred.
Why should you have a right to believe in things everyone already knows to be false by any sane and normally developed person? I mean like come on, if you are a Flat Earther, you couldn't even use your damn phones and internet without relying technology made using the knowledge that Earth is indeed flat. Giving free license to believe anything without knowledge on subject is dangerous. We should, to an extent, respect science and experts, although to constantly allow freedom of opinion and debate between ideas. Most religions, today, are the equivalent of believing in Flat Earth - utterly outdated, obsolete and replaced by better ideas already. Atheism is the future
@@tj-co9go i mean, i kinda agree but i kinda don't, if it's something that actively causes problems, like faith healing, fake psychics, or flat earthers then yes they don't deserve respect, but if it's simply someone's belief cause it just gives them hope or a meaning, i dont think theres anything wrong with that
i totally agree with the science and experts part tho, science denial is a very big problem with these kinds of religions
although if the religious person is attacking your beliefs or claiming that they are true, then they are actively setting themselves up for criticism, there's no way to pull the "respect my beliefs" card there
it's more than that. respecting one's beliefs means not eating pork in front of a muslim, not making sexual jokes in front of a priest, etc. you don't have to go out of your way to make a positive environment for them but you should do you best to avoid making a negative environment.
Let's be real, the true meaning of "respect each other's beliefs" is "don't make life a living hell for others based on belief."
Goes both ways, absolutely agree. People can believe whatever they wish, as thoughts are a freedom we will have forever, hopefully
@@gamertardguardian1299 (North Koreans excluded)
@@gigawooper2733 people that don't abide by the rule are naturally excluded. In North Korea, the belief of a single person supported by a giant corrupt system of oppression is pushed down the throat of every living innocent citizen. Classic dictatorship
@@gigawooper2733 I mean, you can still think whatever you want. You just can't say it out loud there
a christian and a muslim saying that they respect each others beleifs means that they agree to disagree
Back in the day your videos helped me realise I was being abused, I ended my marriage and I am now a happy person in a happy relationship, you helped save my life, thank you
That's amazing dude! (Note: I do not associate dude with gender or sex)
@@TechnicalTacticianbro you seem like you are very afaid to get cancelled
@@krasinmarinov Never underestimate the mob man. I don't want crosses burning in my yard. Cancel culture is like the new kkk.
@@krasinmarinovo, they’re just being respectful, cus some people are sensitive to that stuff. It’s funny how the modern conservative interpretation of sympathy or accommodation is “woke” or “trying to avoid cancel culture,” and how it’s infected the minds of normies and even many non-conservatives. I will admit that there is a kind of terrible “pile-on” culture on social media, but “cancel culture” in the way you probably mean doesn’t exist.
@@ultron3065 yea you right
I realize that this video has nothing to do with "We should hate others for their religion" but rather just "we should feel free to criticize each other"
Yeah
HI SODLIER TF2!!!
Yes. And it's good that you're realized this😊
Thanks for the importance of being honest and open with our beliefs, soldier from TF2.
Why would you think this video is about spreading hate?
I’m atheist but I had a lot of friends of different religions. Most of them were pretty relaxed, but I remember 3 instances where I felt horror towards what beliefs people could possibly hold.
1. My mom has a severe mental illness where she’s tormented by voices and paranoia all moments of her life. My middle school Mormon friend told me that we should all be happy because she “chose” this path. She explained that people are given a choice before birth: live “normally” and try to work your way into heaven, or choose to take “the easy path” where she is guaranteed a spot in heaven. I’ve never before been so livid.
My mom used to have more of her mind when I was in kindergarten and I remember her as loving, kind, and happy. Only 5-10 years later she spends her days screaming and breaking furniture, fearing that someone is hiding inside and trying to hurt us. To call that a “choice”, and the fucking “easy path” on top of that… I couldn’t believe it. It’s such a horrific sight and I can’t imagine how terrifying every day feels for her. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy and my “friend” expected me to cheer and celebrate about it.
2. My first sleepover with my best friend (Muslim) was also deeply uncomfortable. Everything was going amazing until we got ready for bed. We were about to sleep and she starts to cry. I go to comfort her and she tells me that she can’t stand the fact that I’ll burn in hell for all of eternity. I didn’t know what to say. I think I said something non-committal, but she doubled down and explained in detail how I am guaranteed to experience all the pain forever after I die because I’m not Muslim. She kept saying stuff like “you don’t understand, it’s eternal pain forever. There’s no escape and you’ll burn only to be burned even more. Forever and ever. Even when you regret it, your soul will never be able to leave”. I was so unnerved at the sheer certainty in her words and how it sounded like a mix of desperation, fear, and concern. The tone she used in her voice still haunts me. We were in elementary/middle school at the time. I could tell that she cared about me, but this was the only way she could express that. She was just a kid. Why did someone say that to her?
3. This was when I was older (and in that sense I find it more concerning). I was in high school and one of my Christian friends learned that I was atheist (I don’t really talk about it). She went up to me asking why I don’t follow the Bible. I said that I think the Bible contains some good morals, but it’s also a very old book with very old values and beliefs. She responded “How do you know right from wrong without a moral compass? What’s stopping you from killing people?”
That scared me a bit. I didn’t think I had to explain that most people have basic human empathy. I said that I don’t hit people because I wouldn’t want to be hit by others. I hesitantly said the same applies for murder. If I think it sucks being killed, then I think it would be a pretty shitty thing for me to do to someone else.
She still was confused. “Why don’t you just go steal and kill? You believe there’s no punishment for it. Why not do it?”
Well, firstly, there’s the police. But also, I… never felt the need to kill someone??? It’s not something I’ve secretly hoped I could do… and I still think it would suck getting murdered. But she continued to ask why I didn’t just go kill people. It almost sounded like the Bible was the only thing stopping her from murder. I felt there was something off about not doing something just because something told her to, and she didn’t consider why it’s said to be wrong in the first place. I felt a little nervous around her since then.
The reasons I don't kill people:
1- I am not a psychopath
2- I don't believe in an afterlife. I believe that if I kill someone, that person will just cease to exist, leaving the whole wonderful life they could've lived completely wasted, and ruining the lives of all the people who loved them, with no hope that they'll ever meet again
3- I have no reason to kill anyone
4- The police are not forgiving
5- I would puke
6- It's hard to kill people
7- I would have to go outside and touch grass
And more! :D
If the ONLY thing stopping a person from killing people is a fear of eternal punishment... Um... yeah, might wanna get that checked out.
I'm so sorry for your mother's condition, and to call that "the easy way", even if it may have been some misguided attempt to cheer you up, was just...wrong.
The second story makes me feel so sad for that girl, you can clearly see a kind-hearted nature clashing against an abhorrent aspect of a belief system, and suffering greatly for that.
As for the last one, that's genuinely terrifying: at best, that person is so walled off from any other belief system except their own that they seriously think no moral compass exists except their own, and at worst...well, if all that's keeping a person from murdering another human being is the threat of eternal damnation, then that person is not far from someone who kills in their god's name, for if only your god is keeping you from murder, what happens when I convince you that your god is absolutely ok with the murder of certain people? Just plain horrifying
There are religious people who CAN be tolerant to others, believing in their religion without putting others down.
But... the religions are not like this, yes.
I too think it would suck to be murdered
@@radschele1815 True, I too was like that before becoming agnostic, but behaving like that is, ironically, to go against the dictates of some religions. Mine in particular was catholicism because I live in Italy and it is omnipresent here, although many small town priests (like the priest of my own little town) advocate for moderation and respect for people of other beliefs in their sermons. Still, after I found out the contradictions and dogmas of strict catholicism (like some of those spoken about in the video), I left that faith and started searching for my own morality. It's just...if I don't recognize myself 100% in all the beliefs of a belief system, I cannot be a part of it, I'm not the type of person that can ignore hateful claims in the name of a greater picture
All beliefs should be challenged. No one should have a free pass just because they're afraid to prove their point
This.
God is real and the big bang is rubbish
Paganism is pretty chill, well from what I've researched so far.
@Ju Bruh I was atheist too , But if you really look into science especially Biology you will see how perfectly designed it is.
@Ju 1. Since you asked me to prove it i assumed that was the case
2. Scratch the word perfect from the sentence.
3. Id like you to prove to me what you believe
4. Its pretty much impossible to prove a topic such as the existence of god through text
I literally got an ad before this saying"I want you to imagine standing in front of Allah" wtf. Hell no
Oh I got the same ad
I got that one as well. I have gotten it a ridiculous amount of times
I got a legalizing weed ad
Same
I got the same ad too and I never had an ad like this before! Can advertisers choose videos to put their ads in or something?
"Whats your religion?"
"Who the hell starts a conversation like that we just met"
I had a vegan people flashback xD.
But ye it sounds dumb. Unless your contemplating what food to make cause many religions have specific things banned and stuff.
actually I would love it if a random stranger came to me and asked me what's my religion this would be a great opportunity to share and discuss my beliefs and morals with someone who is to me a blank page, someone that I don't have any pre judgements about. This conversation could be a learning point for both of us even if one of us wins, that doesn't necessarily make the other accept the winner's beliefs because beliefs are so deep that you cannot hope to change them in one day, but this conversation would lead to each one of us broadening their horizon and researching more.
Small talk is boring and I would take a religious argument over it anytime
@@yahiawalid188 Average rebbitor
Every catholic person, specially at a job interview like not even my name
Yup, that's what happen in a religious country.
If your religion villainizes you for leaving the faith, questioning the belief system, punishes you for exploring other belief systems you should know it is a cult. the sooner you leave it the better.
This reminds me of Islam. If you're unlucky you can get killed for leaving it. In Iran , Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia the government will do it. It is actual Islamic law to kill apostates.
And questioning the religion is caused by the devil and jinns. Some of these people are taught that it is dangerous to enter a church.
The thing that makes me sad is that many churches have stigmatized doubts and questioning, when those are perfectly reasonable things that most Christians go through. There's a point in many young adults' lives where they start trying to figure out who they are and what role they're to play in this world. When that happens, they have to question faith a lot, because it's transitioning from their parents', friends', or peers' religion to their own, and they have to really figure out what that means.
Many Christians are scared of that, scared of those questions, because when there aren't educated Christians around to answer those questions, they can start to move away from the faith. But moving away from the faith is ALSO natural for many Christians. It's something a lot of them go through. Unfortunately some never come back from it.
Thanks for reading my contribution to the series of novels in this comment section.
that's what i like about Buddhism: all paths lead to nirvana. the problem is is that a lot of people are denied enlightenment, either by others or their willful ignorance, and it causes a lot of despair inwardly and outwardly.
there are certain sects of religion that are more humanitarian whilst keeping the core message of, essentially, "be a good person," but i desperately wish they would be louder than the more authoritarian sects. i believe such humbleness is respectable, but even then, if it helps their sanity to pick their battles, they also need to know when to actually take on those challenges at all cost.
... Well it can also be a religion and not a cult, and it can still have that.
@@harrietr.5073no it can’t. A religion that isn’t a cult would not think less of you for leaving and trying a different religion. Does you religion do these things?
instead of saying you respect someone else's beliefs, a better phrase would be to say you respect their right to believe it and think freely.
I feel like that's what people mean when they say that.
Aye.
only thing is that i wouldn’t call religion “thinking freely” as indoctrination prods people to follow it mainly out of fear, guilt and pressure from relatives. If someone’s actually went the extra mile and looked into it deeply, it would put them in conflict with other followers who have different outlooks. So what’s the point in identifying with a misunderstood ideology. Religion, political and social ideologies, nationalism and status divisions all need to go into the bin. The root of all these rigid thought structures is essentially selfishness and that shit’s wack.
@@davids5724 Of course, that's an extremely surface-level understanding of the nature of religion.
@@shalom5978 I'm not so sure, I often see people getting offended on behalf of their beliefs.
Not only religious beliefs, mind you.
I think many might equivocate respecting the right to have an idea with respecting the idea.
You don’t need to respect someone’s beliefs unconditionally to respect them as a human and respect what is important to them.
Yes!
I am confused.
@@soonsuicidal You respect the person, not their opinion. If someone's belief system can be dangerous or is flawed and you see holes in it, it's okay to point that out. It's not disrespectful to let someone know when they are wrong
I don't have to respect them as a human either lol. Our species is garbage.
The last part of your sentence muddled your statement.
“You should respect my beliefs” respect mine then
“Why won’t you shut up about your religion?” shut up about yours
What goes around comes around.
Jan Sitkowski good for you for keeping your nose where it belongs but just because you don’t do something doesn’t mean you are the norm for your group. There are street preachers who literally make it their job to yell at people, who just want to live their lives without persecution, claiming that they themselves are being persecuted. This is no straw man, I’ve heard this from people in real life as well on TH-cam.
Jan Sitkowski that isn’t a strawman, I’ll admit I am making a huge generalization but it isn’t a strawman. A strawman is when you purposefully build the argument of the other side poorly and proceed to knock it down
Jan Sitkowski I agree that we need mutual respect but most Christians I’ve encountered (school in the south can be considered a hell for non-straight non-Christian students) are staunchly against your sentiments going out of their way to call gays fags, “you’re going to hell” and the like. As you said, winners write the history books, but it can also be said about the loudest part of a group doesn’t necessarily have to be the biggest, the loudest Christians tend to not be kind and are getting more attention than they should.
I’m sorry for any information I get wrong or logical fallacies I’ve used, I generally don’t use rhetorical devices or have arguments
Jan Sitkowski I live in America, home of the idiots, and have more experience with their brand of Christianity. I'm sorry for any projection of any American issues on you, it is interesting to hear about differences in these sorts of things between countries.
@ Polish Catholicism is pretty blatantly bigoted here in the states where there is much cultural and racial diversity. My girlfriend's family has attended a mostly Polish Catholic church for years and years and even they are treated like they don't belong because they're not Polish like most of the others that attend.
to me, it can be put as simply as "I do not respect your beliefs because your beliefs do not respect me"
My beliefs do respect and call for me to be nice to you even if you hate me
@@JoshBeck-z5m Well good for you.
@user-ud6ru4gu4e didn't your beliefs start a series of wars because opposing religions merely existed?
@@drewwallingsford6768 no, hypocrites started wars, do not confuse us with those we hate above all others.
@@drewwallingsford6768 and I doubt you would say the same thing to a Muslim.
People deserve respect until they prove otherwise. Ideas deserve no respect ever. Ideas are not people. Religion is an idea, subject to debate, ridicule, and falsifiability.
Obviously.
To say a religion is just an idea is wrong. To a non believer like myself maybe, but a religion becomes a part of a person it effects how they thing move and act if i say i hate the religion of Islam i might as well be saying to any believers i hate how you think and live your life. To believers there is no room for debate ridicule or fallibility.
@@uchihaitachifan00666 How deeply their beliefs are has little to do with responsibility on my part, other than showing them the same courtesy I would show anyone else. Religion as a social weapon doesn't impress me.
respect is earned, not given. you're utterly naive if you openly believe that every other person you meet has the intent of respect when it comes to interacting with you if only because you can't help it.
How are you to respect someone's actions if you are not privy to their intentions? If a Christian helps an old lady across the road, maybe that person wasn't trying to get into heaven but just being a decent human being. And if they were just being a decent human being and you witnessed them helping someone and thought, "they're just trying to get to heaven," that is a projected meaning, not the real intention. Next time you have a need of help, and there's no one to help you, consider yourself unlucky, not damned to hell.
Every video of yours that I watch, I find myself thinking, “that’s exactly what I want to say”. I wish I had the ability to express these realities as clearly as you do. Thank you.
Same dude. I'm so good at explaining this to the mirror in words that aren't even real but when I try to verbalize it to theists, they start shouting before I even get the chance and I mainly just forget what I'm talking about.
I feel the same way sir
@@Shalalalala_666 that's because they fear their pipe dreams collapse on them
ikr he has my exact same ideology lmao
That's work right there
Favourite quote of all time now: "No authority is beyond ridicule."
It may seem kind of random, but this sentiment reminds me of a quote from God and The State by Michael Bakunin (An antitheist from the late 19th century). "Does it follow that I reject all authority? Far from me such a thought. In the matter of boots, I refer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals, or railroads, I consult that of the architect or engineer. For such or such special knowledge I apply to such or such a savant. But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the savant to impose his authority upon me. I listen to them freely and with all the respect merited by their intelligence, their character, their knowledge, reserving always my incontestable right of criticism and censure. I do not content myself with consulting authority in any special branch; I consult several; I compare their opinions, and choose that which seems to me the soundest. But I recognize no infallible authority, even in special questions; consequently, whatever respect I may have for the honesty and the sincerity of such or such an individual, I have no absolute faith in any person. Such a faith would be fatal to my reason, to my liberty, and even to the success of my undertakings; it would immediately transform me into a stupid slave, an instrument of the will and interests of others."
@@johnmccrae2932 Based Anarchist
@@juicebox9465 Thanks lmao. I think this one is second only to "If God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him."
@@johnmccrae2932 You mean make extinct.
I formerly had an occupation that had "high authority" and learned much from a dude saying "Dave, I don't give a fuck what you think."
The idea of "I don't respect your ideas and I don't require you to respect mine" is just such a beautiful one.
Saying “I respect your beliefs,” has always been a way for me to curtly say, “It’s not my place nor interest to change your mind and I want to diffuse what could easily become an unnecessary and exhausting verbal conflict,”. People are welcome to believe whatever they want so long as they don’t push it onto me.
so kind of like 'agree to disagree'?
people are NOT allowed to believe what they want. there is no god. source: the size of my 🅱enis
Defuse. Not diffuse.
@@mrosskne They actually both work in this situation
Huh, thats odd. As a Christian when I say "I respect your beliefs" to Atheists, Islams, Jews, or others who do not believe some or all of the things I do, I actually do respect their beliefs because everyone should actually mean what they say, and sometimes I don't respect others beliefs and im okay if someone doesn't respect mine, aslong as they respect the fact that I have the right to believe in what I wish
When I was a kid another kid in our church got terminal cancer. It was awful. He suffered horribly before he died. At one point, just before he passed some women from the church visited his mother to inform her that her son was sick because her husband drank on weekends.
This shocking, sadistic behavior was the beginning of the end of my participation in a system that I never thought made sense, anyway.
ikr? also pinned comment
What the fuck. I'm sorry
lol imagine what kind of fucked up person believes they're doing the right thing when they do shit like this
So you are either an American Protestant or a Muslim. Every other religion (espicially roman catholics, true (=European) protestants and russian ortodox would also drink during the week and laugh at anyone who claims alcohol were bad..
@@Ribulose15diphosphat what's your point? If they had harassed her about something other than alcohol it would have been reasonable?
I found some Christians will not accept any Criticism but are very quick to criticise Islam for example. Very one sided.
Which is especially strange considering they're more similar than different...
Matricx700 They are both Abrahamic religions and command a bunch of things, like advocating for Slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). There a radical Christian groups in the Congo which are pretty much Christian Al Queda
When I see people laughing that islam believiers trying to make islam pro lgbt+ and pro feminism I just think they hypocrites because that's exactly how christians look like when they try to do that
couldnt agree with you more, considering that atheism is a bigger threat to christianity than islam is. but christians simply do not have the balls to criticise athiesm, you know why? because science is completely logical. christians have nothing to criticise about atheism.
@@mabros26 The war between Christian and Athiesm is long over. Athiesm won. The new emerging war of this century is the war of Islam. 21st century Muslims are the 19th century Christians.
Freedom of religious belief is not a concept that protects your religion from being criticized, it’s precisely the opposite.
you like kissing boys dont you
It’s amazing ppl in here are talking about Christianity lol… there the weakest most non violent ppl…
Islam on the other hand, Even Judaism… That’s another story
you like kissing boys, dont you?
@Kqnashi
No...? Religion was made to answer the big question, "why does the world exist?"
Sure, some religion act more like moral codes, like buddhism, but most religions are not like that.
Religion being used as a weapon is not the intention of religion
@@QUBIQUBEDanswering the big question is the comfort that religion brings
I was raised in the JW cult even after a year of being out I'm still trying to get my critical thinking to a good place. This video really helps putting things into perspective.
I'm sorry for you. That is a terrible self esteem crushing cult. Only a sick person would invent a religion that prohibits holidays, birthdays, and fun.
That is not easy. More than anything, find people to be around. Don’t isolate yourself. After being out, you may find great strength in relationships where you can be honestly yourself! You are not alone, and you will find that life will blossom for you if you continue to be honest
I’m currently escaping, and these videos help me as well.
There are a lot of really meaningful ex JWs making TH-cam content, it's really inspiring to see the individual stories and how they have grown and changed so much
@@Silver77cyn awesome it's well worth it . Really sustain some bruises along the way emotionally but freedom is definitely the true Paradise .
When I was little I was Catholic, my parents were atheists but they believed it was wrong to impose any beliefs on me. So from friends and extended family, I was pushed to be catholic, I was committed to it, I loved god. When I was around 12 I started to realize that I was not straight. I was horrified because no matter how good I had been that meant I was going to hell. I went through a rebellious phase because "If I'm going to hell might as well earn it". Now I'm an atheist I still keep TRADITIONS that I like such as Christmas and even praying before I eat but instead of thanking god just acknowledge being thankful.
If there is a god and an afterlife there is no way to know about it for sure, I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I'm not gonna make this life hell in hopes that in an afterlife that may or may not exist I will have favorable treatment.
This world could have been better if religious people embraced and welcomed LGBT people into their religions. God is for everyone. Not all gays go to hell.
@@AmenProletar this argument goes two ways, your belief and my own belief that the same would apply if religion never existed in the first place. Even if you feel offended by this, the idea would be true. The deeper idea in all of this is while this is a specific example of being gay, you could replace any relatively minor sin that is actively ridiculed by religion, and to suggest that religion should simply just tolerate them now rather than recognizing that this shouldve never happened in the first place and yet religion has historically unfairly ostracized those who act in these ways and it would be more efficient to suggest that religion should not and shouldve not existed rather than religion being more tolerant, especially so when multiple religions do this, not just yours.
Sorry to hear about your loss of faith. However, we still pray. Know, God has grace for homosexuals, as he does for all people who sin as you, and for us (trust, you are no special case among a world of thieving men). This said, homosexual behavior is not something our Lord encourages (like every other sin that the "straight" still commit). Only, to be right in your spirit, serve your humanity as best you can in spite of your faults. For, as humans we are defined less by our sins and more by how we repent for them. God bless you
@@hoboking8398 Well-said!
You won't be condemned to damnation for being gay, as long as you stay on a righteous path you will be welcomed into heaven.
It took until quarantine for me to final come to terms that I'm an atheist, but the seeds were sewn when I was a child and my father would openly talk about my loving grandparents being destined for hell simply because they weren't sure whether or not god existed. His own parents. I can't begin to imagine.
I went from a period of atheism to currently being agnostic.
My strategy is to become a theist before dying. That's why I live fairly and cautiously so that I don't die an accidental death.
@@N0Xa880iUL rolling the cosmic dice before death, eh? Better pick a religion that only cares about your character when it's time for you to go. Although what's the point, there are so many religions to pick, not mentioning the ones that don't exist anymore or yet. You're pretty much bound to choose the wrong one, so it makes more sense to just do what you think is good right now.
@@freddy4603 You're right. I don't know what I'm doing. Life got to me. I'm to focus my efforts on making my life and of those around me better, than think about some unseen outcome.
@@N0Xa880iUL Pascals Wager
@@N0Xa880iUL You’re strategy is to become theist before dying? What? Lmfao
If whatever version of religion you believe in works that way then this really solidified to me that religious folks are nothing more but narcissists. Imagine going to this so-called heaven and meeting a bunch of shitt¥ people who are there because they believe in the billionth version of a god. Sounds like hell to me
I’m an ex muslim and it’s so frustrating because i can’t even say it out loud in real life. I live in ksa, a muslim country to some extents I suppose, and it’s so suffocating because my family and everyone I’m surrounded by is muslim and in Islam there’s a death penalty for apostates (people who leave the religion). There are many things wrong about this religion I have no idea how over a billion people are blinded by it.. many scientific mistakes and when it comes to morals, it has none. It literally doesn’t respect anyone who has another belief and even orders to kill those who don’t believe in their god. I do not respect this religion nor do I respect the apologists of it.
Once I’m just a little older I’ll leave everything behind and start my own life. I’ve already cut off my friends because I know they wouldn’t accept me after I left islam so I hope I’ll be able to meet more amazing people in the future.
Damn bro. I hope you can make it out to a safer environment one day
@@rishei4748 thank you for your kindness!
I wish you the best in the future
I wish you the best, I hope you’re somewhere safe now.
I also wish you were the type of person people listened to to actually hear what is in that horrific book, what laws there are in Islamic countries (defacto or otherwise) and why it’s a toxic plague on millions of people..
Good luck bro, I hope you make it 🤞
One issue I always had with the understanding that "Not being part of a religion means you have no moral obligation to be ethical and/or righteous", which is inherently just flawed. Is it truly sincere and righteous if you're being a good person solely because you will be punished otherwise? Or vice versa, are you going through whatever ritual, prayer or action your belief requires just because you're promised a reward at the end?
Do we as humans NEED a constant threat of eternal suffering, or a carrot at the end of the stick to be bit more selfless and act with respect to others' right to live?
Some people, yes
This conclusion is the end of the road when you go all the way to ignore the moral obligations of religion. If there isn't an afterlife, if there is no God, and we simply "fade" into a void, then why bother being a good person? As in, what is the root cause for such behavior?
You could come from the biological angle and say we humans are social animals and as such the cooperation with other beings is beneficial to our success, personal and as a species. You would naturally help your family, right? But at the same time, we're also competing for resources, even if under new parameters and perspectives. So what reasons do you really have to help someone you don't know?
One step further, why do we determine some things are crimes? Why do we all inherently agree (almost all, unfortunately) that taking a life away is wrong? Or abusing a child? Or doing anything that you inherently deem immoral? Where does these rules emerge from? Are they completely arbitrary? If they are, what is stopping us from completely changing them?
Once again, you can go down the psychology and sociology roads and say that these are more beneficial to us as a species. Protect the young, preserve life, even if those are not directly related to you. But remove that "arbitrary" standard and you fall back to things like rule of the strongest.
The extreme end of this way of thinking usually leads to nihilism, in which there's no point in life but for it to end, and as such, why bother with anything? Not to say you can't live your life selflessly without attributing this behavior to religion. Directly, of course. Many of our unwritten rules come from a distant past where the religion was the law. There are good people outside of the boundaries of faith in whatever religion you may think of.
The core of that question, imho, is the source of your morality. There are two famous ideas about the human nature. One says we are inherently evil, and the other say we are inherently good. The Bible says we were made good and perfect, but got corrupted by sin.
I won't enter into the part of doing "good deeds" out of fear because that's another discussion altogether, but as for that debate, the point in question is the source of your morality
@@sparking023 You are making a mistake of believing that morality is inherently religious. There are lots of different philosophy devoted to trying to define morality. What is good vs what is evil. Honestly I don’t think we will ever reach a true understanding of it. However, this doesn’t mean that we can’t see how acting within certain behavioral norms benefits us. These normas are what we as a society has deemed acceptable behaviour. Considdering humans are very social creatures it is nessecery for us to act in a way that doesn’t just benefit the individual, but also one that benefits the social group. The social group doesn’t benefit from arbitrary killing, nor do you. If arbitrary killing is allowed then we are in danger of being arbitrarily killed, and we don’t want that. So we get together and decide as a group that this type of behaviour is unacceptable. Those are the basics. A lot of rules and prinsiples run on the same lines. We have laws against stealing because I don’t want someone to steal from me, and neither does annyone els. Now along the way ve have developed other characteristics that go together with the characteristics of the social creatures that we are. This is empathy. We have the abillity to immagine what it is like to be in another person’s situation, and to feel their pain to an extent. This helps us build bonds and creat a stronger society. A stranger isn’t just a stranger, but could be us if we werent as luck. We help them because our empathy makes us feel bad when we someone els struggling. This isn’t arbitrary as you claim, but the foundation for why we have built society in the ways that we have. It’s going back to the idea of the puddle looking around and thinking, «oh wow this hole that I exist in must have been made for me. It fits me in exactly the right way, and holds me compleatly.» This puddle is making the mistake of thinking that the hole it is in was made for it, when the reality is that the puddle conformes to the contours of the hole. Same thing with your line of reasoning. You are assuming that our societies where we tend to create the same sets of principals springs from the fact that we all share the same moral, when the reaity is that we all create our societies first and then try to define why we made the rules we did by retroactively fitting morality on to them as an explenation. I mean if we knew morality first then why are we still debating what morality even is millennia after we made these rules? No you don’t need God to explain why we help others in the least.
@@MissCaraMint sorry if I didn't make myself completely clear. I didn't mean to say all morality stems from religion, what I was trying to get at is *which source,* if you can call it that, any kind of moral rule comes from. Be it the social contract, or the examples you have laid in here, they all have some sort of reasoning as their basis.
But when you exclude God, or any other high power for that matter, from the equation, and being your line of reasoning to the extreme, which I believe I mentioned, you end with what we would consider amoral behavior.
If someone is strong enough to take something, why shouldn't they? Yes, this person will most likely make enemies, but what if they can protect themselves. And that doesn't necessarily has to apply on the individual level. Would you take a life to protect your family? Would you undermine one group in favor of other? Why is it that we look down upon the colonialism times where entire nations ruled over others?
I agree that to this day we discuss morality and I don't think I've discarded the validity of this discussion or any philosophies regarding it. It wasn't the intention. But often that venue of debate comes to a point where the decisions feel a little arbitrary. Yes, not killing your neighbor is beneficial to your immediate and long term survival and success, and so is cooperation, and other interactions in society, but what is it that makes you extend the same benefit to people who you have nothing to gain from? Is it a form of guaranteeing support in a possible future?
My frame of reference is the Bible, and quite often it is the one that gets criticized, and fair enough, let's discuss this. That's why I came here anyway. The main difference between a moral "code" based on a religion and one that is not is basically the source. Point in case, the Bible dictates what is ethical and righteous, and what is foul and evil. You can reach the same conclusions outside of the religion just fine, the same way many people practice charity regardless of them being religious or not. The only difference is how we "justify" them.
@@sparking023 No morality is something we have invented to explain behaviour we value. As our understanding of the world and others has improved, our idea of morality has become more complex. In short the sourse of morality is humanity. Not God.
I used to date a Christian and it’s a huge issue that so much of their identity is entangled with their religion that is seems they just can’t live without it. It made me realize that, at least in my case, atheists aren’t compatible with Christians in relationships because you fundamentally disagree on your sense of reality and therefore the logic or morality you use to make decisions. I specifically remember him saying he’s never had to question his morality, because it’s all in the Bible, and yet he would still pick and choose what parts of the Bible to overlook in order to make Christianity more palatable in modern society.
Funny enough as a Christian I would actually agree that a fundamental difference in perception of reality and decision-making would make a relationship fall apart...not to mention, how do you raise your children? That's a pretty major decision. I'd guess where both of us agree is that one shouldn't rush into a relationship without carefully examining those things and considering what the fallout down the line would be.
So what are atheist morals grounded on? Literally on the „Zeitgeist“.
What is true and moral today can be wrong and immoral in 30 years.
And most atheists aren‘t questioning their morals for the time being either.
Even though atheists can‘t stop to emphasize they are more logical or closer to science, they really aren‘t.
Beliefs are an interesting thing. Even when you KNOW they're false, they have a way of sticking with you. Like a gut feeling that your capacity for reason isn't right... Something unconscious within you WANTS to believe. Beliefs, I think, answer a need within one's personality, they're constitutive of one's worldview. I thought I didn't have any irrational beliefs for the longest time, until after a lot of work on myself I realised that what was making me feel recurring emotional unease and anxiety were, in fact, false beliefs about myself undermining my self-confidence. And even after realising that, it took me a while to get rid of that, something within me always went "maybe I really AM worthless"
@@nerysghemor5781 Yeah. I wouldn’t want to have a spouse that discourages or stops our kid from going to church or receiving baptism or the other sacraments. That is if I/we would decide to have one at all. And when it comes to marriage I’d feel it wrong to get married without a priest.
This is exactly why i will never date a religious person. Not out of hate or discrimination, but how could we possibly share a life that we perceive in such a different way?
Guys, guys, don't complain about the religious ads.
He's getting paid and the advertisers did nothing but waste 5 seconds of our life. That's a small price to pay for viewing his video.
It seems 5 seconds is your limit
I've never heard Kath and Kim discussing what they're having for dinner described as religious dogma before...
The world o stop time!!!!! WRYYYYYYYY
Thank you for your wise words, Dio.
marry me, dio
When I was little, my mom bought me this cute pink bible that was meant for young girls. One of the passages was about how wrong it was to be attracted to the same gender, and it brought me to tears. I had never met a gay person at that point, but I was overwhelmed with the sympathy that gay people would go to hell for loving someone. I went to my mom, and asked her why God would allow this. All she said was “Why do you care? Do you think you’re gay?” I didn’t realize I was gay at the time, so I was just struck with such disappointment and sadness that my mom would have such a destructive and dismissive thing to say. I was about 10, and that’s about when I started to dread going to church. I felt out of place, like my moral compass made me less than everyone else there. Now, I’m agnostic, but it’s very hard for me to believe in any of today’s major religions when they are so sadist and adopt such a superiority complex. I’m hoping that someday religion becomes less of a taboo topic and that we can discuss it openly with people.
Clueless child doesn't understand scripture and chooses to be a sodomite.
@@QTwoSixincel asshole speaks like an attention grabbing reddit page title
@@QTwoSix Better than choosing to be a lobotomite
@@QTwoSix god never explained why he dosent like gay people, what is there to understand?
@@QTwoSixplease have your annual teenage power complex somewhere else
15:11 A good person doesn't need heaven to do good... They simply do..
Well said.
And what makes you think you are “good”?
@@blazecaller8486
How do you realize that?
Who tells you what is right and wrong?
@@azmhyr : we have this thing called 'a conscience'
It's what primarily dtove me away from religion
@@azmhyr all humans inherently know the basics of right and wrong. It's human nature.
I tried to explain to a friend of mine in highschool that I was agnostic when she tried to invite me to church. As a former christian, I told her all the problems that I saw apperent in the bible that lead me to my beliefs. Despite bringing up genuine counter points to her beliefs, she finally told me "how can you have morals if you don't believe in anything?"
Really, she was just trying to tell me that there was no way I could have morals that actually mean anything if I don't believe in her specific god.
It was an extremely manipulative way to try and convince me that I was a bad person and the only way to become good, or gain genuine "morals", was to become christian.
It was honestly very insulting and I'm glad I'm not her friend anymore...
I see this argument often, accusing atheists of not being moral. How would one go about countering it?
@@HeraldOD
It really depends on if they believe in divine command theory or not.
It basically says that god is always good because he himself imparted morality upon humans. Morality is essentially an extension of his nature.
or
opposed to this theory, god created morality and is above it. He himself does not have to follow moral laws because he is god. (This actually justifies a lot of things that god does in the bible but there aren't a lot of Christians who believe it I've noticed lol)
or
there's the objectivism theory, which says that wrong and Right exist outside of god and are innate and provable. This basically says that morality is independent from god.
I don't remember what the second theory is called, but some people have a psuedo-combination of the second theory and last theory.
Some people also think that humans have a divine directive where morals are innately implanted into us by god, which is how many people across societies have overlapping morals regardless of their religion.
my ex friend in question believed in the divine command theory, so there really was no way I could justify my morals to her because in her mind, morality was dependent on the existence of her god.
@@sweetkittykat2000 Thanks for the reply!! this clarifies a lot.
You sound like a garbage friend
@@reggiestickleback7794 ironic.
I'll never stop reading this channel's name as The Ramen Trees.
Now I can’t unsee it
Bruh
You have finally decoded the code!!
How else would you read it
I will never stop being a tree
I haven't watched your channel in years. Not because I don't love your content, but I think TH-cam just fell out of my bandwidth. This video just came up in my recommended videos, immediately watched it, and was immediately reminded of how important your content was in my early 20s in deconverting from Christianity. instruction manual for life was like a final blow to a crack that had been forming in my belief for years, and literally brought me to tears, and atheism as congruence and transition to atheism helped solidify my thoughts and identify the processes occuring within my mind. I know this video is years old, but I saw that you're still coming out with content, and that makes me incredibly happy.
A preacher says to a computer scientist: "You will go to hell when you die unless you accept Jesus Christ!"
The computer scientist responds: "Don't you know that goto statements are bad programming practice?!"
As a computer programmer, I had to like that comment.
@John Doe Oh my god another one. You can't deny, they can create nightmares. I swear, half of what you learn of ti-basic is all of the ways to never have to use a goto statement.
@John Doe I never said you did! I was just recounting when I first discovered a memory leak, before I knew what they were. And then sifting through incomprehensible code that you have to jump across constantly to understand to find the open block. Or how just having a long enough program and making it go far enough through the code to get to the called lbl that it bogs the whole thing down...
What can I say... I was 12, they handed me this crazy lookin thing that does a bunch of stuff and I figured "Let's make it do ALL of the things!" XD
I'm surprised I remember. But as soon as I saw 'goto' it shot me back in time almost 20 years. I almost quit. And then I got some shooter game compiled in assembly... and tried again to replicate some parts of it in basic. And that's when I realized I had to learn about the magic of assembly.
And then... I longed for the simple days of ducking goto's lol
To be pedantic, the "unless" keyword actually turns it into an IF statement:
IF(!Accept_Jesus_Christ)
THEN Hell();
@Ska Noob in programming, but goto is a function used in coding, and is pretty much the easiest way to do most things, is the first thing that most people learn and you would be amazed by the amount of stuf that you can do with just goto commands, the thing is, it only works for amateur and really short code, it easily bleeds on to the rest of the commands, mess with the cache, makes the machine work o ton more than needed, is redundant, and there's always a more specific comand for whatever you're trying to do that will do said things several times better and without problems, you can think of it as facebook, has tons of functions in it but there's a better app for almost every single one of them, it's just that they are more focused on a single thing so most people just stick with facebook so they don't have to learn to use each one, even though in the end making facebook work properly is almost as hard if not worse.
Long story short, you don't want to hire a programmer that submits their code full of nothing but goto.
As a theist, I completely agree. The second I saw the title I thought, "Yes. Finally someone's saying it". I don't care that's it's from the perspective of an atheist. There are some beliefs, most I'd say, that aren't worth respecting. I definitely respect the hell out of this video.
You’re an atheist yet you are obsessed with Christianity. This why I can’t stand being around people like you. Smh just worry about yourself
@SedDeSangre "subscribe" lmao 😂
The word ‘subscribe’ was genuinely used before youtube, my man, the phrase ‘subscribing to a belief’ has been around for ages 😅
What a way to be contradictory, first you say that you agree with what is said on the video and then you go on to say that "there are SOME beliefs that aren't worth respecting", admiting by definition that some others, or at least one, are worth it (I suspect that yours falls in that category), this leaves me thinking that either you didn't understand a single thing of what this video is about or that you did but you are a hypocrite
@SedDeSangre
For the rest of the thread; when I say "Christian" or "Christianity", I'm referring to a belief I would roughly define as:
"Following the Bible." If a belief is suggested to be christian, but is outlined as disgusting to God in the Bible, it is not Christian. If you've experienced a so-called "christian" stating something as fact with no Biblical standing then they're misrepresenting. If anyone thinks that the Bible has views we should not tolerate, or that the Bible contradicts something I claim in this thread, then I'd be more than happy to discuss it.
The critique of Christianity is separate from the topic of the video: That there are some beliefs not worth respecting.
I can definitely see that whoever made the video is taking jabs at Christianity, most likely claiming that it is not to be respected, but I still respect and agree with the notion that certain ideas shouldn't be respected.
He outlines some things that certain theists might do to try to gain a following, but none of any of them are Christian values.
From an atheist's' point of view, the quotation, "If they're based on unsubstantiated phenomenal and fallacious arguments, I don't [have any rethinking to do]," might sounds like an anti-Christian statement. But considering Christianity has substance and arguments and historical evidence, even if these things are not always utilized, this statement is extremely pro-God. Obviously, when a book that appears to be a Bible is on display as he talks about unrespectable claims, it's to be taken as anti-Christian. Without the imagery, however, "illogical views do not require mental traffic" is an extremely pro-Christian take.
He also put up the phrase "He's real to me" on the wall. If anyone were to believe this - that God's reality is subjective - they'd be wrong. It's Biblically inaccurate to suggest that God is real to some and not others. Again, not really anti-Christian at face value. I think he was more so arguing that God's not real at all, but still.
He attributed a quote to the straw man theist, saying, "If you let me make my truth claims unchallenged, I'll let you make yours." Again, any Christian that thinks this way probably hasn't read a page. If you can't be challenged on your views, do you really understand them?
I don't think(?) I need to go over the 'become un-criticize-able by instilling fear" argument. It has nothing to do with Christianity in any sense. If you think I haven't provided enough in this thread to counter this idea, let me know.
He goes over the idea of a parent using power to instill religious beliefs. "At which end of the spectrum would you put a parent who threatens to burn its children to declining to worship it?" If this is how a parent passes their religion to their child, their religion is most certainly not founded in Biblical teachings. The Israelites were called to "utterly destroy" nations due to the fact that they were literally burning children - a view that is undeserving of respect. "The most urgent cases are the ones who threaten violence when questioned, resisted, or ridiculed." Again, threatening violence when questioned is not substantiated in the Bible. Seeing as the topic is on parents, I think this verse appropriate: Deuteronomy 6:20-21, ESV: "When your son asks you in time to come, 'What is the meaning of the testimonies and the statutes and the rules that the Lord our God has commanded you?' then you shall say to your son, 'We were Pharaoh's slaves in Egypt. And the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand...." - The proper way to respond to questions is to tell the truth. No violence and no "I'm not sure, I just believe." (That being said, if you're not sure why you believe, it's significantly better than not believing. You should just know why.)
The next piece of emotional blackmail the creator of the video talks about is guilt, saying "My beliefs give me comfort - can't you just leave them alone?" - If Christianity was just a belief system to ease the pain of suffering, it would be much more sunshine and rainbows. If the point was to comfort you on your deathbed, why preach of Hell? Why preach that it is a Christian's role to take on suffering? One of the most important lines in the Bible is in Matthew 16:24. "Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me...' " - When Jesus was to be crucified he was made to carry his cross up a hill. It is to say that suffering is linked with following Jesus. If the goal was to believe something that would make you happy about the suffering in life, it would be better to say: "Kick your feet up and eat grapes all day. Do not deny yourself, but instead do whatever sexually perverted, gluttonous, evil things you desire. Everyone is going to heaven when they die anyways."
At this point we're only 6 minutes into the 22 minute long video. To summarize what I'm trying to say: The video itself might present itself as anti-Christian, but from what I can gather the individual ideas of the video, if they were to be taken at face value, are not at all criticizing Christianity. I wanted to explain why the points made are not anti-Christian, even if the video might come across that way, but I think I'll stop here.
If there is something I've missed - something specifically critiquing a Biblical view, or any other point someone would like to challenge me on, feel free.
I don’t automatically respect religious people just because they are religious. However, I also don’t automatically disrespect them.
@densch123 At the same time, to disrespect a person for one part of their personality is pretty iffy innit? A christian guy can be kind and respectful and not try to convert you, while an atheist can be a cunt. There's a lot more to take into account than just belief when you're judging how much you should respect someone
I tend to lose some respect I would otherwise have had for someone as a result of their religious beliefs... it is hard to take someone seriously if they are a committed believer in something so unbelievable.
densch123 this comment right here is the reason why religious people rather be with a imaginary but at least mindful one than a bit of a judgmental asshole like this.
@densch123 what the FUCK does pedophilia have to do with that? In what way is believing in a God, ANYWAY at ALL comparable to pedophilia? Explain that to me.
On another note, believing in a god and believing in a floating sausage are not comparable, science does not disprove the existence of a god, but it sure as hell disproves the existence of a flying sausage or whatever the hell you are on about. Science says NOTHING about the supernatural, period, it does not disporve or prove anything about divinity or existence of a god. And if science truelly does disprove the existence of God, how about you, idk, show some examples of principles of science that dosprove the existence of a God, considering you're the one making the claim here.
densch123 That has nothing to do with the religion though uwu.
People forget, or maybe just never learned in the first place, that respect is earned, not intrinsic. It doesn't matter if you're a peasant, a doctor, a police officer, a soldier, a senator, a king, a president, etc. you must earn respect with your every action and word. Respect isn't about *what* you are, respect is about *WHO* you are.
This includes respecting a belief. It doesn't matter if it's a belief in the Christian God or you genuinely believe in a god someone just made up 5 seconds ago, that belief has to stand up to the facts or it isn't deserving of respect.
Respect is different than admirable.
@@Groggle7141If you admire someone just because they hold a position of power over you, you're very liable to be convinced to do terrible things in the name of that being. Actions should always be judged first and foremost.
There are two types of respect. Respect as a person (basic human respect) which we must give to everyone and respect as an authority which must be earned by exhibiting expertise in a field or knowledge or skill.
You'll find people that use the phrase "you don't respect me so I won't respect you" to actually mean "you don't respect me as an authority so I won't respect you as a human".
@@SonataMarzialeWell said!
I'd rather not be respected then go to hell.
“It is impious to say, ‘I respect every religion.’ This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven.” - Fr. Michael Müller
Catholic truth, timeless as always.
No angels, no Jesus, no god or god's, no Yahweh.
Christian "faith" is defined as belief with no evidence. Religious faith is vacuous and for the gullible.
But, even if faith was at all a reliable pathway to the truth - which it is not - any faith based truth is undermined by the book on which the faith is founded. The book is ridiculous, often badly written, sometimes well, but obviously, fiction.
Genesis creation is obviously wrong from the very first line and is based upon other Middle Eastern myths of the time. Life on Earth before the sun? Earth created at the same time as the heavens, "In the beginning", Really? The Earth was formed 4.6 billion years ago, the heavens, 13.8 billion.
The Israeli government sent archeologists to find evidence of the Exodus, and couldn't.
No record of Mosses or a large Hebrew presence in Egypt at the time. Was Mosses a mythical creation? It looks like it.
The most important Jewish documents, the ten commandments, destroyed by an incompetent god, who didn't ensure their preservation. It's all fiction.
Apparently, not until their god told them not to murder/kill, did the Jews know it was wrong. And yet the ten commandments are revered as the ultimate morality. What nonsense.
No Egyptian record of Joseph and the famine.
Noah's flood wasn't noticed by the Egyptians and Chinese, that you'd have thought would have been recorded. The Egyptians and Chinese carried on their cultural practices as before. The Chinese never looked like Middle Eastern immigrants and their unique writing endured when they should have been wiped out.
And, there is no evidence whatsoever of the children of Noah, filling the world. We homo sapiens are out of Africa, with finds of our species dating back 230,000 years. Not the 6,000 the bible alludes to.
The line of Pharaohs continued. Indeed, at the time of the global flood the three great pyramids of Gaza where being built either side of and during the alleged time of the flood, and yet, construction was not interrupted and no skills lost, despite everyone drowning. Is that because it's all a fiction?
And, mummification was not interrupted and skills were not lost by the flooding and the almost complete extermination of life. It's as if it's all been made up, god and all.
And, after witnessing the flood and allegedly filling the rest of the empty Earth, with lands empty of people, there is no evidence they took their Yahweh religion, customs, culture or language with them and replaced the Egyptian gods or the South American gods of the Inca and Aztec civilisations with Yahweh.
And, Yahweh didn't make it as near as India, where they had their own religious practices. Confucius, in China, predated Jesus, and the Yahweh god never made an appearance in China at all. The whole bible appears to be a fiction, creating a god that was similar to, but more powerful than adjacent Middle Eastern gods. A case of my dad's bigger than your dad mentality. But it's fake.
Again, the bible is inconsistent with our knowledge of the world but, can be seen to have been a fiction composed by a purely Earth based, local to the Middle East, ignorant tribe.
In Genesis there was water without the sun. There was day and night without the sun. The musings of an ignorant tribe who didn't have access to a real god, clearly.
Adam and Eve and their children would have had to have had an incestuous relationship to reproduce. And, this story contradicts the fossil record, the DNA record and, the proven evolutionary record. Especially fossils such a australopithecus afarentis, 3.2 million years ago, homo-erectus, 2 million years in existence, and neandathal, some 500,000 years on this planet, and many others.
Indeed, the DNA record also contradicts the Noah bottleneck of human and animal genetic diversity.
Adam and Eve's creation is told twice and differently.
There is no Egyptian record of the wiping out of the chasing army when the Red Sea parted.
No one can tell us in what year the son of god was crucified or born with any certainty.
No independent reports of the dead rising up and walking about. I think every scribe and religious committee would have recorded such a demonic miracle. But, nothing. Because it was a fiction, like the rest of the book, like the god at its centre.
There was no census in any year that Jesus was likely born, another fiction. The closest census was in 6 AD/CE, ten years after the death of Herod the Great, who was meant to have been alive, hunting down kids to kill. Good to know that god couldn't think of any method of keeping Jesus safe, for example, by stopping the three kings from telling Herod about a new king of the Jews. Blood thirsty story, but, it's not true. Helps to give Christians a persecution complex.
Jesus's visit to Herod Antipas was inserted by a later gospel writer to justify how a poor hated Jewish criminal called Jesus allegedly received a purple cloak, normally so expensive that no person receiving a death sentence would have been given an expensive cloak just to be ruined, to what any Roman would have considered a low life. A low life Jew made to look like a king bigging himself up for his gullible followers. But, it's all fiction.
The Barabus character was placed in the story to symbolise a scapegoat analogy and to distance the new Jewish sect from the old Jewish fanatics who were at war with Rome.
Even the name Barabbus was fictional and clearly meant to reinforce the blood sacrifice narrative. Barabbus means, son of the teacher, or, son of the father. Both the same type, Barabbus and Jesus, both sons of the father. But, the Jews blood sacrificed the good goat and set the bad goat free. So that god could sacrifice himself to himself to forgive the sin he created in the Garden of Eden. Allegedly.
And, there is no record of such a prisoner freedom release thing by Pilot. Pilot was a brutal governor, he wouldn't have entertained being told who to release by these terrible Jews.
The gospels were written to distance the new Christian Jews from the Jews who were in rebellion against Rome. The Christians blamed the Jews for the death of their god son, exclaiming that they had nothing to do with the Jewish murderers who were not only against Rome but against the Christians as well. That stitch up led to thousands of years of resentment against the Jews and ultimately to the deaths of 6 million Jews by the Catholic Hitler and supported by the Pope at the time.
Jesus's journey to Bethlehem and back is inconsistent between the gospels.
The town of Nazareth didn't exist. It was an incorrect translation of Nazarene, which means something like chosen one. It was Constantine's wife who traveled to Judea to find Nazareth and found what she exclaimed to be Nazareth and plonked a church on the site. That was 300 years later, not in the time of this Jesus.
There are many major inconsistencies in the gospels, especially regarding the resurrection. No one recorded the crucifixion at the time of Jesus. The religious can't even pin down the year.
The number of witnesses changes between the gospels.
Judas was a made up person who name is meant to be a stand in for Jews: Judah. As was Jesus's trial that was meant by the gospel writers to blame the Jews for the death of a mythical Jesus so as to distance the bad, Roman hating Jews, from the new Christian sect, so some new wave Christian Jews could escape from the wrath of Rome. It was a political narrative. And, people say that the New Testament has a message of love. It doesn't.
The first gospel was written in about 70 AD/CE, when Rome was furious with the constant Jewish rebellions, ending with the complete destruction of the Temple in 70 AD/CE and the Roman obliteration of the radicals at Masala. The gospels were a means of distancing the Jews who wanted out from the Jews who were fighting the Romans. It was a political survival treaty.
The story of a virgin birth is nonsense. And later, Mary seems to forget in the gospels she had been told her son was a god son. The virgin birth was not uncommon at this time for gods from other cultures.
No one during the life of Jesus recorded his existence. The gospels were written 40-100 years post the alleged death of this Jesus.
Jesus's death, is not believable, which, if it happened at all or, he existed at all, was also a farce, as he would only have been up on the cross for about 9 hours, not long enough to die from crucifixion as it was designed to cause a long painful death. Usually taking as much a five days.
No independent record of the star of Bethlehem. Nowhere.
No record of the sky darkening over the whole Earth for three hours, not in Rome, Athens, Babylon, Persia, Egypt or China.
No one has proved god actually exists.
Prayer works no better than random chance.
The god of love will send most people to hell. Especially those with any wealth. Today, in the West most people are wealthy compared to most in the ancient Middle East.
Jesus, apparently, to his followers told them to sell everything and not bother with plans as he was soon returning to bring heaven to Earth. Yet, we are still waiting, two thousand years later. I think he's not coming?
The Earth is not the centre of the solar system. The solar system is in a spiral arm of one of trillions of similar galaxies in the observable universe.
Given the above, and very much more, the bible is completely flawed. "faith" without evidence is, completely undermined by the evidence.
If the bible doesn't stand up to even passing scrutiny, then it's god claims should be rejected as part of its fiction.
Amen brother
O.K. So the best thing to do is to respect NO religion.
Or how about I re-phrase it this way
I respect Artichokes as much as Asphalt. I dislike Grapefruit as much as Christian Rock Music.
Or since what you are quoting does not mention one single tangible thing:
I dislike invisible yellow unicorns as much as I dislike 300lb invisible ogres from the 9th dimension.
Oh, and on the griping hand, if God and the Devil actually DID exist, I can assure that I would in fact be on the side the Devil. He fought against a tyrant who gleefully drowned innocent children and allowed a drunk and his family of incest loving pervs to go on a boat trip.
Well of course I do since sometimes the "virtue" and "honesty" of some people can be way more inhuman and cruel than the "devil" and "dishonesty" that they say to stand against.
Like that shitty priest in my neighborhood who kept raping children, fully protected by the church of course.
Or the Muslim family who killed their own daughter for refusing a forced marriage and then chopped up hid the pieces of her body.
I will respect anyone’s belief system as long as they don’t pose a danger to anyone, including themselves, they don’t claim some false superiority, they don’t insult anybody else and if the beliefs don’t go against facts. Example of a belief I wouldn’t respect: “Sarah is evil and will go to hell because she wears makeup. Makeup was made by the devil and will turn her unlawful and promiscuous. I am better and more worthy than Sarah because I don’t wear makeup and attend church more often than Sarah.” Example of a belief I would respect: “I believe that there is a higher power, and that there is an afterlife. I believe this because it is a valid possibility that I have faith in and that offers me hope and comfort in my life. My faith also helps me to be a good person and to think more of my actions. I believe that behaving immorally or deliberately and repeatedly causing pain to others means sacrificing your place in this afterlife, or prolongs the time before you may be worthy of entering it” Note that the second list of beliefs is open minded and rational, does not rely on ignoring basic facts, and does not express a view of superiority other than that people who do wrong should face consequences, which is a belief that most people subscribe to (at least in part) anyway. You can still disagree with the second perspective as much as you want, but their beliefs are a whole lot more respectable.
@My Brand anti maskers go against the facts, and pose a danger to others, so I don’t respect their beliefs. Reread my comment.
The comparisons was nice. Reminds me of my muslim family esp my sweet grandmom, whos their drinking her tea and bread watching some news and praying when its up.
At the end of the world, we all want peace and happiness. It be wrong of me or anyone, to take that beautifully thing away. Even if might not be even truth in the afterlife, people belive in what they belive in. Mby for years or only a month. We never know when is our time, so lets cherish it brothers and sisters. Our ancestors would be disappointed for the mess we did, but aswell proud of how far we have come :)
Peace
I will not respect anyone who is stupid enough to believe in religion
@@OzCroc I get you, and i don't respect people who don't like anime. Mby 80% respect but not 100. Man of culture needs to like greatness wherever it from.
So you wouldn't be offended if someone believes you deserve to go to hell and suffer eternal torture? Alright, then.
How very openminded of you.
I'm from an extremely christian family, unfortunately, and i'll tell you how THEY justify people going to hell.
As with most things, it is "the devil's fault".
They say that all people goto hell when they die, regardless, but god / jesus will save the believers and instead take them to heaven.
So by their rationale, hell is something that just happens and god is under no obligation to save or protect you unless you have spent your life serving him.
My grandmother holds that exact belief. And guess what? Since my dad left, my mom couldn't afford to pay the bills so we had to MOVE IN WITH MY GRANDMOTHER.
Apart from being a nutty christian who has admitted that she has prayed that I would break my arm because I don't go to church, she's just a terrible person in general.
She never admits when she's wrong unless it's on her own sick terms, she always has to blame us for something so that she can paint someone else as the villain instead of her, she's a HUGE hypocrite, because when her husband was still alive he used to forget the keys in the door which was a big sin according to her, but she has now started to do the _exact_ same things as he. My mother has tried pointing out this hypocrisy to her, but she's not having any of it.
She was the one that forced my mom to marry my dad, they never loved each other and always argued almost everyday, for us children to listen to as we grew up. She's the reason I never really had a father who could guide and coach me and my brother so we could become men. She's the reason my big sister has depression and always doubts herself, because my parents would scold her like hell for the smallest thing when she was the only child.
We believe our grandmother has mental issues, but she doesn't want to get it checked out because such doctors are "the work of the devil".
She's the one who ruined our chances to have good childhoods, and our parents to have good lives, and now we need to live with her, saying "hi" in the morning and "goodnight" at bedtime, pretending that everything is just dandy. Fuck that.
What does all this have to do with religion? I have no fucking clue. I just really needed to get this off my chest.
Except for the fact that it is God that has created the universe and thus hell. So he is surely responsible for people ending up there. How do they justify that?
Ehhh... correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they then saying that unbelievers can't help it because satan made them not believe but they could have if they had chosen to do what they couldn't because satan prevented them to? o_O
In any case they are definitely saying that people choose to go to hell and they deserve it. Just in a manipulative, sugar coated, rationalizing way.
So why did god create the devil?
I'm a Christian. I feel bad for you. It sucks to grow up in a situation like that. I was lucky to live in a family where we were all given the opportunity to believe what we wanted. After years of believing in atheism I came to the conclusion that the Christian faith was the right one. My father was saved a few years later. We still to this day disagree on some things ( his veiws lean towards a slightly more gnostic belief). It's great. We debate and rationalize our positions for hours sometimes. I feel bad for anyone who had a belief system forced on them. Even when I evangelise I prefer to provide someone with the relevant information that God has given me and let them make that decision. Our right to choice is among the most important to me. And I will respect that right even if I ultimately don't respect your beliefs. But I do expect you to respect my right to have that belief even if you don't respect the belief. My respect is not to your belief, but instead to your right. Religion is a funny thing, such beautiful things have been made through it, yet the same is true for tragedies. Ultimately I think we should think about the tenants of the faith when considering where we stand. My lack of respect for other religions for example comes from a time when I studied these beliefs and couldn't find the right answer. For others it's because of a sense of otherness. The important thing is that when considering these things we have to remember that even though there is only one answer to the question of why are we here, we have to respect each other's RIGHT to choose. Even if their choice is wrong. That doesn't mean I can't give them my two cents, it just means that they have to make the decision themselves. Choice is ultimately tied deeply with Christianity, it was Adam's choice that damned us, Jesus's choice that gave us a chance, and ultimately our choice to except that gift.
How many people come into these comments hoping for a good argument, and instead open their mind farther. This is a great video.
This was very powerful as someone who came from a religious family… the constant guilt tripping and “dehumanization” is real.
Judging by your profile pic, maybe you should've stayed religious
@@Litkeen it’s always the weirdo with no profile pic… don’t be weird I was 16 in this pic
@@StoneColdShortyif you dont like you dont have to wear it
@@Litkeencope
@@Litkeen and stay in a religion notorious for dehumanizing women? Yeah I don't think that would've been in her best interest cornball.
I was always raised with my parents telling me I could believe in or not believe in what I want, as long as it didn't bring harm to anyone. Eventually I went to live with my grandmother and the more religious side of my family. They would take me to church and I would always cry and get severe panic attacks. My family thought that I was "feeling god." I was not, I was afraid. I was afraid of abandonment and being out-casted by my family for not fitting their beliefs or standards because that's what the church told me. Being in a room with hundreds of people that would disapprove of who you are and what you don't believe in if they found out is a mind fuck.
You sound like a baby. I can't imagine you trying to stand up for yourself in University and telling all the weirdos there that there are only 2 genders. You'd probably have an anxiety attack from everyone yelling at you.
No one ever was going to threaten to hurt you or get you fired/kicked out of school for saying you don't believe in God except maybe a spanking from granny. Church is comfy, the only annoying part about it is people wanting you to conform to the basic narrative and you simply say no. Meanwhile real society wants you to conform to calling a man with lipstick a she and if you don't you go to jail.
@@johntheoddity6791 You need a thicker skin if you want to survive this life. If Church was such a traumatic experience for you, I can't imagine you existing outside of a hugbox.
That goes for others too who have these weird almost overly dramatic stories about feeling threatened while going to Church.
The Outlander 14 Man you’re a moron.
WillowThe Oddity I can tell you that we have non-believers attend our church as they go along with their family. Not one time has someone been outcast. If anything, those people are reached out to and welcomed to simply be there.
@@theuberlord7402 While that may be entirely true, and your position in this regard may be entirely benevolent, the argument you're presenting is basically "This hasn't happened to me or people around me, therefor your experience is invalid". I've never been a church goer, but my family is, and I've no issue with going to church with them when the need for my support arises. Our churches are generally very gentle places, and so I've never had any negative experiences either. But I know of many who have, and plenty of people practice their religion with an iron fist, demanding their children believe or be smacked around until they do. I can absolutely understand where Willow's fear would come from, as a child who is suddenly shoved into a room full of people who, while they may or may NOT judge them for their beliefs, present a completely different and terrifying ideology to what they're accustomed to. Being forced to sit in a room full of people singing praises to something you disagree with is plenty of reason to have a nervous breakdown, even adults can suffer this response.
TLDR; It's great that your church is welcoming and outreaching. Not all of them are, and fear needn't be rational to a child.
"Religions haven't stood the test of time. They've cheated the test of time."
Holy shit, I love this. Im so writing this down.
They are created by man to organize the methods of applying the spiritual neliefcand in most cases: to control and manipulate.
Religion vs spiritual
Individual practice in belief does not require a Religion.
I don't know why you love it, because it's wrong. This is postmodern atheist historical revisionism. Religious cults were mandatory to social cohesion for the overwhelming majority of human civilization. This guy is absolutely railing against religion in the most biased manner possible. This is not clear judgement, this is atheistic bigotry, in the same vein that a vegan calls meat eaters murderers.
As someone who was dangerously close to becoming a hateful, conservative Christian as a teenager, I’m constantly baffled by (and grateful for) how far I have personally come in my journey with mental freedom / independence throughout my life.
My parents never agreed on religion. My mom wasn’t really cemented in her spiritual beliefs- but my dad was STRICTLY Christian and conservative. Where my mom gave my sister and I all sorts of toys, from action figures to baby dolls to dinosaurs, my dad began dressing us up and taking us to church as soon as he could manage it. I have early memories of being in itchy, uncomfortable church clothing and trying to sit still in my seat while loud organ music blared overhead, so many tense holiday dinners with even stricter relatives. Church “school”, where we sat for hours and learned about “real” history- and, since I was the older sibling, I was often granted the “privilege” of attending the adult church services with my dad.
As I got older, and observed my dad, I wanted only to impress him. I pretended to have the same favorite color, pretended to know why he liked Ted Cruz or Mitt Romney, and pretended to know why he didn’t trust immigrants, non-Christians, or gay people. I prayed every night, a ritual that became increasingly more obsessive as I added the name of every person I knew to the list, lest they be left out and forever damned to burn in Hell.
God, I even insulted my own mother about it once. I’ll never forget the look of pain and shock on her face when I told her, in ignorant rage, that she was “just a Catholic” who didn’t understand how the world worked. I was around 9 at the time.
When gay marriage was legalized, I saw the news report on TV. I was around 15, just about to move across the country and start high school- and I was angry. In my eyes, “those people” had won, and this victory for them was an attack on good, righteous Christians like me and my dad.
During those years under my dad’s influence, I became bitter, cynical, and fearful of others. I hated myself, as well, and subconsciously forced down any thoughts that didn’t align with my dad’s beliefs.
When our family moved states around 2016, I entered high school as a conservative Christian. We found a new church, and I sat obediently for each service as I’d always done.
Then, I started to meet new people. Namely, queer people. A girl I’d recently become friends with made a comment about her being gay one day, and I remember freezing, thinking- Oh, god, she’s one of *them*. I was bitter, hateful, fuming, and all because of how I’d been raised. She was a perfectly normal, lovely person, and I was immediately blinded by rage.
Days (or weeks?) later, I have a dream where I’m kissing a girl. I’m AFAB, which is something I have not stated online for almost 10 years until now, so for me, this was objectively gay.
When I woke up that morning, I was overcome with the most disarming sense of peace I’d ever felt before. The girl in my dream had been pretty, the setting had been serene and beautiful, and I FINALLY was able to ask myself…
What was ever so bad about this?
From that point, I began to question everything. My mind was buzzing with curiosity and wonder at the reality that I’d been missing out on a whole world of beautiful human experience that was no less “pure” than any heteronormative idea I’d ever been fed before. I learned I was bisexual (pansexual, more accurately), and then, a few years later, when I graduated, realized I was also transgender. A complete 180 from the angry, fearful teenager I had started to turn into.
Now, when people say things are “woke”, I don’t take it as an insult, but I feel sad for them. They’re still stuck in that state I was trapped in for so long, hating themselves and others while lying to themselves all the while.
There are three things to take into consideration when it comes to believing things:
1) The belief
2) The believer
3) The right to believe
And whether or not respect is due to these things boils down to simply:
1) Never
2) Sometimes
3) Always
That's right
If you should never respect the belief, why would you want the right to belief?
@@bencrossley647 Because the right to believe is important regardless of the belief in question. I support people's right to believe genocide is a proper path, so long as they're not hurting anyone. No one has the right to limit thought.
Northern Wind Why is it important?
@@bencrossley647 because without freedom of thought no ideas can be challenged, all ideas must be challenged or you wind up with dogma. That's just the baseline, of course.
My family abused me in the name of Islam since my childhood. They said theyre gonna kick me out of the house if I dont believe and I was only 15 years old when this happened
You caused fitnah upon your family, they must do something
Oh my, sorry that happend. Are you feeling better now? I live in a Muslim country, so I kinda understand your pain.
bruh
dude are you sure they knew what they were believing in for real?
Because someone that really knows what islam is wouldn't enforce their beliefs because that is what kur'an literally tells them to do (Simply) : Do not enforce religion because it will turn them away, (Not exactly same but that is what the point of one of the paragraph written.)
@@ahmetsalihsavas7745
You probably haven't realized but most people practicing religion pick and choose what they want to believe in anyway, it's impossible to find someone following all the teaching word by word.
Plenty of religious conservative are quick to yell "god hates gay" blah blah while ignore the "loves thy neighbor" part, aren't they?
This reminds me of the time when I said I didn’t like a food. My older sibling then made a rant about how other people do like it and that I shouldn’t invalidate their opinions. It doesn’t matter if I like it or not, other people do, so I shouldn’t state my own opinion. Ironically, their rant was all contradictory in the end by invalidating my opinion. When I told them that they called me worthless. It’s strange how they could get so mad over me not liking tomatoes.
fuck tomatoes
Whoa whoa whoa, you should've lead with the not liking tomatoes part. That's truly horrendous
Wait did you just say you don’t like tomatoes? They were right, you deserve hell sorry.
Not liking tomatoes?!
Sound like heresy to me…
I declare eternal war upon you!
@@Bazingler Whats even funnier is that I’m Italian. My whole family calls me “the worst Italian ever”.
Now, I was raised a christian, in fact I was an usher in the church. Loved it there, most of the time (because it was a small and very personal church with good people). But eventually I realized my beliefs didn't align with the church. I was drifting towards athiesm. I told this to my grandma, who I would later find out is an absolute nut, actually. And she never asked me 'why', hardly wanted to listen to why actually. She just said "I pray that you'll find your way back", as if she wanted me to just disregard anything I may have learned or figured out that dissuaded me, instead just blindly turning back to religion. At the time I didn't think much of it, but as the years have passed I realize that wasn't just her own blindness, but a very deliberate attempt to have me pull the wool over my OWN eyes. I love her to no end, but thinking about how that interaction kind of hurts, that she questions my intelligence like that.
The short version of my story is that I am a Christian but find myself at odds with several things, including hell itself. Initially, I only watched and read sources that painted all atheists in a super negative, anti-intellectual light, but as I am inclined to do, I wanted both sides and found myself here. The deeper I dig, the more nuanced things become.
the wadge of sin is death
for all have sinned and fallen short to the glory of God
if God gave us what we deserve were all going to hell
jesus came to save us from our sins
God gave us free will to chose either evil or good because he wants true love
committing one sin is punishable by death yet God is giving us time to repent
God is holy holy holy nd he is good and good hates evil
all murderers deserve hell but God is so good that even liars go to hell
jesus lived a perfect life he was even tempted by lucifer yet he didn't commit any sin he was the perfect sacrifice
jesus didn't have to die in the cross if we are not sinners
I am a Christian as well, and I think it's good to investigate. :-) One thing I would also suggest to you is to broaden the scope of your research beyond Western (i.e. Protestant and Catholic) sources and also take in what the Eastern Orthodox Church has to say too, as some of their positions on things like Hell and "original sin" can be fundamentally different from those of the West.
It's brave and commendable to challenge everything, it's the sure way to grow.
I’m also christian, and I believe that, in a debate or otherwise any kind of judgement or decision, one should consider both sides from both side’s perspectives.
Both sides are very nuanced but neither side understands the opposition’s nuance, however, both think they do.
If we waited until people were in their late teens or twenties before we told them about religion, I imagine there would be a lot more atheists
YES
@BRITISH MAN COLONIZE this seems to imply that once people have developed their critical thinking skills they see religion for what it is.
@Max Sharpe fair point, the generalisation I made was too far reaching. I would still suggest that for every adult joining religion later in life there are more who leave it, but I have no actual proof outside my life experiences, which are no more valid than anyone elses.
I would imagine we could get some hints of an answer from some of the European countries as they have slow down some religious indoctrination. My very personal experience is that it just may be so. I was indoctrinated into catholicism and it took a long time to get rid it. My wife comes from an Atheist family. We decided not to bring our children into Religion and be as truthful as possible. Science has been a big theme for us. What I discovered was how much christianism has penetrated our public schools, it's nearly in everything that has to do with the English language and my kids had no concept of any of it. They had no clue whatsoever about Noah, the pope, the talking snake, the bible, and on and on. They would ask question and I would tell them what the stories were, treated as mythology. Once I related the stories, they were always baffled! many times laughing in disbelief. One day my teenager daughter asked me about this Jesus birth thing. (Both of my kids have been schooled in sexual education without religious entanglements) I started explaining the story and then, she, suddenly had enough, her eyes were wide opened in disbelief; she rolled her eyes like I never seen before and just walked out on me. No thanks, no thanks she uttered as she walk out. She has refused to talk about it, I would really like to know why the reaction. I believe, without basis, that when you bring up young minds early into Science, into the reality of the natural world, into facts of the factual kind (not the alternative one), perhaps there are aspects to the natural world that just make common sense and that to convince you of an insane proposition you may need more than just a ludicrous story. I cannot say that my kids will not be religious one day, what I can say is that it would be very surprising and if they do, it will not be because their parents indoctrinate them.
@@doctorwhy6504 I was schooled in Ireland and it's very difficult to get a secular education over here. Most every school teaches Catholicism, but the funny thing is that it doesn't have the same pervasiveness as it used to, despite that, and I think it's because parents don't force it anymore (mine didn't)
My parents used to make me go to church with them when I was young. The pastor's wife once told a story about how she got sick for several days after watching a soap opera, and only stopped being sick once she stopped watching the soap opera. She believed that God had decided to punish her for sin of self-indulgence, for engaging in pleasure that wasn't strictly religious. Within the same sermon, they laughed at other Christians who believed that drinking soda and who believed that owning nice pieces of jewelry and watches were both sins of self-indulgence.
All of those examples really made me question why having those small amounts of comfort and pleasure would be bad, why they thought that they would be punished, why the god that they said created them wouldn't want them to have any joy in their lives. It was one of the contradictory points that solidified my disbelief in a god- that this god who wanted his creations to be happy and healthy, didn't want them to be happy and healthy.
they're mostly stupid anyway... what kind of dimwit thought that if D happened after A it automatically means A is the cause of D..?
They should redo their whole education, and this time, actually pay attention. What a joke of an adult.
Their reading an alternate universe version of the Bible.
@@lastyhopper2792 "Correlation implies causation," is a really easy fallacy to fall into for Christians, it seems.
My parents are pretty smart people, I'd say, but sadly they believe some wild stuff and ignore some rational stuff. My mom, who aced all of her history and science classes, once repeatedly screamed at me, "you're a liar!" because I mentioned that snakes used to have legs. She believes the story of the global flood and Noah's ark. My dad, also a straight A student, doesn't believe in climate change. He believes the story of Adam and Eve. Their religious education has made them into irrational, ignorant people. So I agree, change up the study style, or maybe switch schools 🤠
(Sorry for the long rant 😅)
@@Adasvers I'm not sure what make, model, and year of Bible my parents' church had, but their interpretations were definitely out there. I think every denomination thinks that about every other denomination though lol
@@lastyhopper2792 that implied they had an education. some people do not get the luxury of an education and instead get indoctrinated into believing everything their church says.
The most frustrating part for me: knowing that even if everyone in the world watched this video, it still wouldn’t change or free any minds from religion. But it’s crucial to never stop trying, even if people are stuck in their ways. Thank you for this.
It was theramin trees and youtubers like him, that helped me break away. Actually, I believe this was one of the first videos of his I saw.
Yeah, no. You’re acting like religion is a barrier keeping people from being “enlightened” or whatever, which is evident from the fact you say “free any minds from religion”. Most of the stories I saw in these comments were definitely bad and shouldn’t have happened, but they are exceptions and not the rule and I say that as a Christian. None of what you’re told in these comments happens to 90% of Christian’s.
You say this as if religion-Christianity in particular-weren't responsible for the massive development of science, the establishment of schools and hospitals, the initiation of the abolitionist movement, the ethical and moral progress of societies, and the improvement of relationships and mental health. This is all information that can be gathered from scholarly sources such as books and research papers. I highly suggest you look more into it before assuming that religion is something to be "freed" of.
@@tripulr What does the bible say about slavery?
It would definitely change the minds of some 10-18 year olds who have yet to hear an outsider perspective.
If someone asks you if their significant other is beautiful/sexy... Just respond with, "I can totally see what you see in them, and I'm so glad you're happy"
I thought the same thing
@@dumbautisticmutt 🙌🏻
Jodie Foster is my beautiful
Except that's a lie... i speak honestly and don't have to lie for anyone's sake. I've been asked that qwestion once by my best friend and i said look man i don't see what you're seeing but I'm not the one dating her... you are, my opinion has no value to your relationship
The best response in most scenarios would be to say "no" and walk away😎
Little detail but as a disabled person I appreciate the inclusion of a wheelchair user in you models!! As well as just this video as a whole, I never knew how to word how I felt about this and you did it flawlessly!
i dont get why ppl need recognition, asking srsly
@@sarunightamber701 its nice to be included in things.
@@xhylus4374 ofc but ive seen people that go agains the society just bc they dont are "included" in every single media, all programs, everything. i mean that cant be it right? maybe is smth more complex?
@@sarunightamber701 how is the idea of enjoying seeing someone you can relate to anything but just that. How is this lost on you? Or are you being obtuse on purpose?
@@sarunightamber701 my guy, i hate forced representation just like you, but damn bro can't minorities have ANYTHING???
When I asked my grandpa for if I should be sent to hell for being atheist, his response was “I hope God gives you a 2nd chance to repent your rejection of him”. I could easily tell how uncomfortable he was with the concept of hell.
EDIT: looking back, it made more sense that he didn’t like me being in hell. I cont know why I said concept here…
your grandpa is a good man.
He was uncomfortable with the idea of you in it 💀
@@danfoxdude looking back, that makes more sense.
@@emtheslav2295 As much as I agree with the videos premise, might I insert some insight? The modern beliefs of regulations and moderation are nigh identical to the pasts beliefs of being judged, the question is should you ALWAYS have a second chance or not? Some studies show being entirely irregular (with your health excreta) leads to regular issues (with the same thing). The same premise applies to ones evident "damnation." Now for the question, in modern times, it is somewhat completely your fault for a problem, and some weight should be put on those around you aka society (like in societal issues). meanwhile the older method puts the entirety of a fault on your savoir and/or yourself directly. You should always be given a second chance in both methods... somewhat. It's really only a matter of need, because the inevitable pushes the need for second chances and it is human to believe in the inevitable.
@@danfoxdudeLmao
But he was still believing in it's existence
Without ability to criticize beliefs, we risk leaving people trapped in the bronze age, where they may risk corporal punishment for not bowing and groveling to an unseen narcissist. Not criticizing can also lead to personal stagnation, and even death.
Technically most Bronze Age religions were polytheistic, ritual-based (as opposed to doctrinal or scriptural based) religions which were specific to particular cultures and/or states. And very few had punishments for NOT believing. After all, it would be really dumb for an Egyptian whose favoured god was Ptah, to punish a Hathor devotee for not worshipping Ptah.
Religious based persecution only seems to start when scriptural doctrines, and the belief that 'my god(s) is/are the ONLY god(s)' enter the equation.
My favourite religion is Quakerism (bearing in mind I'm an atheist myself), I've always found the idea of a religion without dogma fascinating. My understanding is that within Quakerism no measure of belief is required, one's relationship with God is *entirely* personal and may well involve agnostism or outright atheism. What is important is a) community and b) living by humanist values. It seems more like an active philosophy than a religion in the traditional sense.
So in other words it’s a make-believe system where you are God and decide what’s right and wrong?
@@shadelightss lol, like literally every religion? Yes.
@@paultapping9510 This quakerism thing just sounds like fancy way to say that you only believe in yourself.
@@spaghettiisyummy.3623 does it? Seems like a very silly false dichotomy you've set up there.
@@paultapping9510 Hmmm... Idk.
It's just something that i thought of when i first read this thread.
Sorry if i hurt anyone.
I should be more careful. :/
I could never understand how any amount of finite bad can justify an eternity of punishment.
Yeah, Christianity is WILD.
Hi. Even as a Christian, I do not understand why God does what He does. However, are you as smart as God? Do you have all wisdom, knowledge, and morality as to decide what is true, good, and reasonable? Is not true that your life (like every other human being's) is plagued with faulty judgments and bad moral decisions?
How, then, can we pretend to possess the wisdom of the ages? If you don't, why do you trust your own opinion, seeing how you lack wisdom, knowledge, and morality? Yet, Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshiloh "However, are you as smart as God?"
Hi. You have the wrong question. Am I as smart as the bible? Certainly so.
It's not god that says this happens or is justified. It's the bible saying god says so. Until the bible can be demonstrated as the word of god, then it only makes sense to treat it for what it can be proven to be.
"Do you have all wisdom, knowledge, and morality"
No, and neither does your Bible. It's teachings are demonstrably bad for some people.
"How, then, can we pretend to possess the wisdom of the ages?"
I don't. I possess the wisdom of hind-sight and centuries of scientific advancement. Something which is massively demonstrable, unlike the Bible.
"If you don't, why do you trust your own opinion"
Because I make sure that my opinion aligns with what is demonstrable, and thus produces consistently accurate results, by all testable measure. Sadly, when the bible is put up to the same tests, it fails massively and appears completely out-of-touch with any of it's unique teachings.
@@kenshiloh Our brains are wired in a very specific way. We only react in the way that we do because of what we have experienced. Everything we do is for a reason, and with that logic we are condemned to our fates from the moment we are born. If you are born in a horrible place lacking any form of justice, whether moral or lawful, and you turn out like your environment propped you up to be, is it just to burn your soul for eternity when your god himself would have foreseen these events? Are you comfortable with the fact that it is entirely possible for something out of your control to happen and for you to spiral into a different, nastier person who gets sent to hell? Seeing all of the past, present, and future *everywhere and anytime* is the very definition of omnipotence, of being god. Your god would have seen the terrible monstrosity that humankind turned out to be, he would have seen every single individual in the planet's entire story, he would have seen us writing on this comment section about his existence and methodology. He would have seen it all from the very beginning. Yet, he still condemns us as though we are not his creations, who he propped up to turn out like this. If he made us in his image, I truly fear for what sort of narcissistic, sociopathic God we might have. Truly considering all of this, how can you say that your god is truly holy, all-knowingly wise, and just?
@@cringespotted8355 This.
This reminds me of when I went to a pregnancy center for STD testing, only finding out after I booked my appointment it was a Christian facility. I got my results from the midwife there and had a conversation with her (as much as I would have preferred to just leave after getting my results, I felt rude doing so in spite of what I am about to say).
It was...quite the conversation. She knew I was gay because the questions had asked about the sex of partners and such, and the conversation essentially boiled down to "I don't agree with you being gay, but I hope you respect that belief [that I don't respect you]. I think God sent you here on purpose."
People throughout my life have told me that I need to respect other people's beliefs, but why would I respect the beliefs of someone who resents and hates the existence I did not choose? No, I won't respect racist people's beliefs just because they're family. No, I won't respect homophobes, transphobes, or misogynists. They do not deserve respect. I will respect beliefs that deserve respect-and condemning other people but still "respecting" them is not something worthy of respect.
Also, thank you for the graphics in this. People in wheelchairs, a (probably) gay couple, etc. It's nice to see this stuff done without it being made a big deal of. Of course, I'm making a deal of it now, but only to show how much that stuff means to people.
It's also a state of cognitive dissonance because they are basically saying "I don't respect(agree with) your existence but I agree with your existence (because of god)" which is such an obvious contradiction.
Do you think there's a difference between the terms 'agree with' and 'respect'?
@@diamond852 It depends on what we're discussing.
"Disagreeing" with LGBTQ people existing is disrespectful. Telling us we're "wrong" or "broken" is not okay and is immoral. Homophobia, transphobia, racism, xenophobia, sexism-they're all one in the same.
It's a little grey when it comes to religion, of course. If you "disagree" with a religion or a religious organization in that you simply don't believe in it, that's not an issue. If you "disagree" with them in that you think people who subscribe to those beliefs should be harmed or are disgusting and blasphemous, "heretical" and worthy of disrespect, execution, forced conversion, etc. then that's an issue. Now, if a particular religious organization or even religion (though a whole religion being like this is less common than a particular church, temple, group, etc.) preaches hate and you don't respect it for that reason, that's also another story.
I hope I explained that well. If I didn't, do let me know.
@@sammysammyson sometimes the Christians taking littarely to a book outdated for our society are left behind. You happened to meet one of our kind with the inability to understand the basics of our modern world which has evolved past the primitivity of our anscestors and giving us new ideals to question. Sorry you had to experience such an example of stupidity and outright inability to differentiate millenia old texts from modern society and evolved understandings of said texts passages. Have a good day and I hope such stupidity never falls upon you for that would be a shame (shame not only upon the religious like myself but upon humanity)
"It's nice to see this stuff done without it being made a big deal of."
*cough* Netflix *cough*
As a Christian, this video was very humbling, and also constructive. The case made against the notion that Christian belief deserves respect (or any other religion for that matter) simply because it would be more convenient for the Christian was made all the more potent by what (I'm guessing) is the underling motivation for arguing this point in the first place: to equip others with a defense against an overbearing religious rhetoric which demands respect and even honor, while itself giving nothing of the sort.
That said, I want to offer some thoughts on the bible quotations and the interpretations of them. I hope this won't come off as pedantic or that I indulge in the "overbearing religious rhetoric" so often employed by people like me. Rather, I hope these thoughts will be in keeping with this spirit: "To increase the frequency of moral behavior throughout the world requires that we think; that we question and reason and discuss; that we gather good information about the needs, the benefits and the harms involved in a given situation; and that we're willing to review our assessments as new, relevant information emerges." (14:29-14:46)
Thus, my main point is that it seems that nearly all, though I hesitate to generalize, of the theology presented in this video is very conservative and fundamentalist. Furthermore, though I don't think this was the intent by any means, but the bible quotations and references don't support the thesis of this video well given the wider context those passages therein.
1. Deuteronomy 13: 5 & 15 (8:20ish)
This passage does in fact command execution for the worship of other gods, BUT this only applies to the Israelites. This passage is referring exclusively to the people of Israel (who had previously made a covenant to follow Yahweh), prohibiting Israelites to worship any other god but Yahweh. It does not however extend to non-Israelites who have no covenant of loyalty. To understand Deuteronomy, it is crucial to understand that the entire book is a public oration by Moses to the people of Israel, of the entire covenant between Yahweh and Israel. In the Ancient Near East, covenants, not uncommonly, contained mortal consequences for breaking certain articles of that covenant. For the Israelites, Yahweh makes it clear that worshiping other gods is the most severe breach of this covenant. Anyone is free to interpret the Bible however they please, but it would be misleading to present this passage as a Christian (or Jewish) command to kill ALL those who don't worship Yahweh.
2. 2 John Ch1: v9-11 (8:29ish)
Unlike Deuteronomy, 2 John is (predictably) a letter from John to a fledgling house church. This letter is mostly addressing John's concern for the rise of deceptive Christians. We see this in verse 7, just two lines earlier. "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh." (Trs. NASB2020) John is worried about this vulnerable church. This is not a command from Jesus or Yahweh. This is a suggestion from John not to allow these people into their "...house or welcome them." (v10) To my knowledge there is no command in the Bible by Jesus or Yahweh, to shun or disrespect or to be otherwise inhospitable to non-Christians. Though, I'll be the first to admit that Christians can be some of the least welcoming to difference or discomfort.
3. Matthew Ch 25: v41 & John Ch 3: v18
I'll address these together as they were used together to make the single point that Christians believe that those who don't believe in their religion are condemned to hell. This is a very complex topic and one that Christians and non-Christians alike should handle with great humility and caution. Anyone, Christian or otherwise who confidently lays out an "official" theology of hell should be observed with equal skepticism. To be clear, I don't think it is the intent of this video to lay out such a theology. The main point here is that Dante's Inferno is great literature and very bad theology. Hell in the bible is first and foremost a metaphor, and this is not some fringe progressive Christian stance, but one commensurate with historic Christian orthodoxy (I recommend reading N.T. Wright for this).
Hell in the Old Testament is always translated from the Hebrew word Gehenna (or Ben-Hinnom). This is a real place near Jerusalem, it's a valley; the Valley of Ben-Hinnom (later, when the near east was Greekified Gehenna became Hades). This very real valley was the trash dump of Jerusalem, and many scholars think that before the Babylonian Exile it was on fire 24/7. Additionally, during some of the darkest periods of Ancient Israel's history, wayward kings of Israel would sacrifice children to other gods, which Yahweh specifically said he abhors. When Jesus refers to Gehenna, he describes it a place of total darkness and blazing fire. See the problem? It can't be total darkness and full of fire at the same time. These can't be literal descriptions of some subterranean torture chamber because the language of Gehenna is already a metaphor as are Jesus' descriptions. The post-mortem destination of non-Christians is ambiguous in the Bible, and for good reason. It's just not the point of Jesus teachings. His agenda just is not to announce the promise of a "good place" for all those who know the secret password (praying that they believe John 3:16) and the promise of a "bad place" for all those who don't hear about the password before they die. For a better explanation read "Surprised by Hope" by N.T. Wright or his smaller work "Simply Christianity"
To wrap up, my goal with all of this is not to provide a bullet-proof rebuke of TheraminTrees' presentation of Christian Theology. Let me say that again, I'm not trying to prove him wrong. I actually really agree with his overall thesis, and I especially agree that we should be VERY SKEPTICAL of anyone who goes around claiming that their belief system employs "execution, social rejection, and ultimately eternal torture" for those who don't agree with them. That is why I want to encourage everyone, including theraminTree to be take the long way 'round this topic. I tried to do that by providing examples of just how complex biblical passages are and to show just how enmeshed the Bible is in its historic, cultural, linguistic, and interpretive context. There are plenty of awful things done by people who adamantly claim that their actions are informed by the Bible or Jesus. They are a not a good source of Christian theological study, though they are a source of very real suffering for many many people.
Grace and peace,
Timothy
Indeed, and I find it sad that a lot of Christians behave this way with unbelievers and believers themselves. I thank you for your humility to address this video for it's righteous's perspective. God bless you !
I can't believe that I read something if this quality in a youtube comment section lol
We're pretty confident that Moses never existed, and we know for a fact that the Jews were never enslaved in Israel. That was manufactured whole cloth.
@@GenesisTheKitty well yeah, the Bible is not a history book. Pretty much all of the old testament is just legends or metaphors telling you how to live your life and be a good person
@@rredy I would not describe the old testament as telling anybody to be a "good" person. The morals of the old testament are questionable at best and explicitly genocidal at worst. Even if we say the homophobia is a mistranslation, the old testament is still comprised of deeply sadistic texts.
The God of the old testament tortured Job and took everything from him just to win a bet with the devil.
The God of the old testament wiped out all but 8 people from the face of the Earth due to their "wickedness" even though he's supposed to be omnipotent and could have easily prevented it from being necessary.
The God of the old testament decrees that women who become pregnant by their rapist should be forced to marry them.
The God of the old testament punishes children for the sins of their fathers, a good example being when king David gets another man's wife pregnant and God causes the woman to miscarry as a punishment to DAVID.
To be fair to that specific point, the entire religion is built on the idea that a couple of our ancestors a long time ago did something God told them not to and now we deserve to suffer for it, so punishing the child for the sins of the father is at the very core of the faith, but I find it to be quite distasteful.
"If you're claiming any Gods exist, then you're making a truth claim, about a reality of which I'm a part and it's your burden to substantiate it."
Bravo!
Seriously, that sums up so much, so well. That one is added to my list of all-time favorite quotes.
Exactly, since as babies the first thing we realize is there is a world, and our first belief is we can learn something about the world (and) universe.
They need to show evidence that a god exists, because they claim to understand reality more than someone who just witnesses the world as it is.
This of course, doesn't address the mentality of the person, some people have much empathy, and others feel very little for others, they have apathy.
So there is a difference in people..based on their mentality, people usually abuse empathy ... as you can see by the news head ''feminist says we need to stop using facts, and start using emotions as weapons and the authority''
People who don't understand emotions then collapse into such a mentality will assume they are oppressed or demons are haunting them or god hates them etc..etc..etc. and that's when you got so many people converting to religion or brainwashed into it.
it's all psychology and body language, paranoia..hypersensitivity.. etc..etc..etc.
I agree, as soon as I heard him say that I thought "yeah, that is true"
Unless you are part of a religion that dgaf if anyone else believes in which case I am under no burdens to prove shit.
How about millions of people trough out history claiming to have experienced it? Just crazy people right? All of them describing the experience in very similar ways, some even giving you road maps to experience it yourself? Can you substantiate how much you love your kids? This is the problem with Atheism, it's 100% materialistic and therefore denies any part of reality that is not overtly materialistic, so they also have have to believe that emotions for example are not part of reality, which is a completely warped world view. Where does consciousness come from? Can you prove you have consciousness? No? Guess you're a robot then. Can you substantiate your belief that death is a bad thing? Or are you just taking that on faith? So many places where Atheism is just a flawed world view that lacks any kind of philosophy, and it clearly shows in it's lack of imagination. Without imagination we will stagnate as a people and a society, and that makes Atheism little more than a death cult who worships the material. I can't prove to you that I think or feel, hell, I can't even prove I'm real and not just a simulation. And neither can you, your whole idea of "reality" might not even exist if we're going by the evidence. Which makes your whole argument of "a reality that I'm a part of" worthless since you can't even substantiate this reality or that you're a part of it, you could just be something I'm dreaming, or I can be something you're dreaming, and there is no real way to substantiate any of it.
*Demands material evidence for an immaterial concept by definition*
CHECKMATE!
*TIPS FEDORA*
*"I would rather believe that my grandmother who loved me dearly ceased to exist after her death as a conscious entity than spending an eternity being tormented in your God's hell for her sopposed crime of not believing in said higher power...with the former end result her humanity is preserved in my memory".*
- by an aethist believer
And id rather die as a believer than a non believer in any case , doesnt apply for you
@@sixgm227
And so do you believe I and other nonbelievers deserve eternal damnation? Do you agree with YOUR God that is a just fate, to be consigned to an existence of unending horror?
So if God is not right, there must be non existence in the afterlife, since we can imagine only His afterlife and the only alternative is nonexistent. We are still too attached to monotheism.
@@mavrospanayiotis
I'm skeptical of ANY religion or any ideology that makes claims of an afterlife with ZERO evidence to back such up. Sure we may not be able to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no life after death but neither does that mean there HAS to be an afterlife. We simply don't know, but what we do know is that religions like Christianity or really any belief systems certainly can't claim whatever they think happens is the truth, well they can but no one has to believe in all that to live a long happy life.
@@navilluscire2567 i believe in all religions or, at least, in any "sacred experience" that consciousness offers. The fact that many people have not such experiences (or at least they just ignore them as hallucinatory) is clearly not a problem: their experience is just different and they deserve respect for their conclusions vased on their experience. Yet "non believing" in a modern western way is deeply rooted in monotheism; its essence is not about what particular god you worship but its exclusive relationship with the truth and believing that the trusth of others os just lies, ignorance, misconception etc. That's why i restarted my thought system with accepting sacred/mystical experiences as true, unless they bring privilege to some people, are forced to others, proclaim to be the only real thing. For atheism instead i accept the simple fact that not everyone can or should feel compelled to know everything or everybody... if you never met a sacred/mystical experience that is part of your being and cannot be brought against you as some wrongdoing.
I'm a Christian. I really enjoyed your video. I question my faith all the time, I try to learn more. It's the only healthy way to follow a religion. Blindly obeying is always shallow. I'm fine with others not respecting my beliefs. From your perspective, I'm probably the most ignorant guy alive. I accept that reality. Totally understandable.
For a bit of context, I deserve hell as much as you do. I believe in Jesus, which I believe saves me from that fate. Unfortunately, many Christians act entitled, like they somehow earned their own salvation or something. That's stupid.
Iron sharpens iron, mate. I've found one of the best ways to affirm my faith is to answer criticism honestly, finding strength through difficult questions. You can do the same. All we need is in the bible. I love you, and I'll pray for you.
@@jimijenkins2548 Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Before getting baptised, what held me back was uncertainty. I thought if I did enough research, I’d disprove God, which I didn’t want to do. Upon doing more research, I confirmed my beliefs. I made sure not to blindly accept, too. I’m reading snd trying to analyse some of Lee Stobel’s stuff.
Edit: when you do research, you can never be 100% sure of anything. Keep analysing. If you choose to believe in God, you will receive the Holy Spirit that gives you certainty. Of course, that does not mean stop questioning. It is never healthy to do that. But just because evidence against God has been presented, does not mean there is none that support God. There is more than you realise. God gave it to us. Study apologetics and do NOT avoid science.
you are a good human, I’m proud of you
may i ask you a question as a muslim? there is something i need to know. did you feel any guilt or any negative feelings when you first questioned your faith? because i feel like most religious people teach each other to not question their faith because that could mean we're questioning God or something like that.
Growing up in the UK, we're taught that all personal beliefs (especially religious) must be given unconditional respect, and for a long time I took this as a given. I was never religious myself, but I viewed any criticism of religion as taboo. Three years ago, this video helped me realise how flawed and problematic that view is. It really changed how I think about religion and beliefs in general. Thank you for making it.
As a child, my parents had a very power-based parenting style where they would punish me for questioning Christianity. Some of these included, "Why does God make good people go through pain?" "Why do bad actions get rewarded in life? What does God do about this?" Instead of answering it, they punished me and said I was sinful.
But I still wanted answers so I turned to one of my pastors and he said that I should not question it.
Finally I went to my trusted Christian friend, and to my surprise he gave an answer to almost every question I had "Being a good person is almost always going to be painful. It is easier to take the easier route, but that is not what God wants us to do. Doing the right thing will always hurt in some way, but it will influence the people around us and encourage them to do better." Even the few questions he didn't have a definite answer for, he encouraged me to seek further for answers and to come to my own conclusions (which I eventually did).
He encouraged me to open up my own small worship circle at a different Church where people were free to ask questions and give answers to each other and not have their curiosity shot down.
Tl;Dr: Had my questions about Christianity shot down by parents and pastor, but got answers from friend which encouraged me to do the same for others.
P.S. If you ever have questions about your religion, you have a right to ask those questions and to draw your own conclusion. It also might reinforce and strengthen your belief like it did for me.
Wow you had a horrible experience with Christianity, when I was Christian one of our church school teachers said “you should challenge your beliefs” and that we shouldn’t believe in something without giving it some thought first
Good for you man, I’m glad you had a friend that could honestly care about you. These questions are fair and shouldn’t be shot down, which is in contrast to what my friend in the video believes happens exclusively in religion. I’m happy that you are sure of your salvation
Oh wow I was expecting another horror story but I have been very pleasantly surprised. I'm very glad you built your faith up on God's will and you will be blessed for it
@Lex Bright Raven yeah its hard to open the blinds and face truth.. "people are lying to me about my religion and refuse to tell me the truth, so i ended up trusting my religion more without looking for real answers."
@@belphemmore3802 what if you’re wrong?
As a Christian, I appreciate living in a secular society because my beliefs are often challenged which can be difficult but healthy. It feels like people in very religious societies can become numb to thinking and just accept whatever since there are no major deviating opinions. By being challenged we could either deduce that we are wrong, refuse to listen, or strentghen our beliefs and seek to understand them better. It is not fun being ridiculed, but I prefer that to a totalitarian society where no critizism is allowed.
Well said.
I was at a study on the gospel of John this past weekend, and it ended up in a discussion about gay rights for some reason. It was almost a half and half split about people believing gay relationships were good vs a sin, but we all agreed that regardless of what you believe about it, we have no right to take away that option from others, as God gave us free will. It was very refreshing to see a civil discussion that was on such a hotly debated topic in Christianity and no one insulted each other for their beliefs or interpretations, and I believe that is how challenging discussions should happen, with both sides in the room and not trying to speak over each other. Challenges are important, but far too often end up in one side getting bullied by the other.
@@joylox Well said
It is hard sometimes. In school I’ve often been bullied for my Beliefs as a Christian. It is good to strengthen my beliefs though.
Well said. Unfortunately, the most totalitarian, evil, manipulative, societies are atheist. As listened to the this speaker when ever he made a claim about religion I could not help but think about atheistic China, the Soviet Union, Pol Pot's Cambodia and North Korea.
This applies to more than just religion. This boils down to any sort of personal belief or perspective.
Political party affiliation being a big one.
@@fortheloveofnoise Of course. But that's a hard discussion to have in a youtube comment section. But this explains eloquently why alt-right poltical views should not be respected.
He does bring up other things as well not just religion...
I definitely agree. But in the last few years I've learned quite a lot about politics and history. And when it comes to US/Western politics and political history it gets a bit tricky. Much like religion/superstition, there's been a significant amount of intentional manipulation of historical people, places, and events. Especially regarding labor history, or our 'peoples' history. As Karl Marx once said, “The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production..” This is now more true than ever seeing as how just six (6) corporations own/control more than 90% of our media (TV, radio, newspapers, periodicals, etc.)
In just the last four years I have discovered more about our history than I had previously known (or thought I knew) in more than 30 years on this planet. If anyone experiences a negative internal reaction to just hearing the name Marx, this is in part what I'm talking about. But of course it's much more than this. As Erik mentioned, it's not easy to have this conversation in a YT comment section. There's been a deliberate effort to obfuscate much of the labor struggles of US workers, and of others around the world. You may have heard of some of these efforts (like the C|A's own 'Congress for Cultural Freedumb.') But I hadn't until very recently. It's extremely insidious to say the least. And it infects every corner of political science/history in the US.
I've already taken up too much space here. But in case you're still reading, I'll end it with something from someone who's work helped me and others better understand this history: "History is given to us by the 'conquerors' or 'winners.' And if we ever do hear from the conquered or 'losers,' it is through carefully-tuned filters." -Dr Michael Parenti
@@ericklauridsen9353 also leftist Muslim forced acceptance. Literally what the video is about, we should not be forced to respect Muslims beliefs for any reason
When our daughter was about 8 a boy at school asked her if she believed in God. She said "No" and he said "I'm going to beat you up." A true Christian.
thats not a Christian thing to do, thats just an immature kid
@@lookiamabot He was no doubt echoing his "Christian" parents.
hh
To the boy it was like finding someone who does not support the local NHL team.
He must've had nice parents
Hello! I’d like to apologize to you for a comment I made on this video perhaps 2 or a 1 year ago, that was a time where i was heavily religious and I felt offended by this video, I was stupid back then(still perhaps am now) and I have changed my views because of videos like this, for that I thank you.
Mere Christianity - CS Lewis , listen to it on youtube
Let’s look at it this way…even though you were under a spell, some part of you was seeking truth even if you didn’t even know it. Coming upon that truth rocked you to your core. But here you are now with eyes wide open! Be glad!
You are a big man.
We rarely see people like you, people who are willing to admit to their mistakes.
As others have written in the comments "Respect is not commanded, it is earned" and people like you deserve respect, a lot of it
Ideas should *_all_* be criticized.
Every single idea ever (including this one) should be held under the microscope for close inspection. Any parts of it that don't check out should be changed or tossed out.
Even after close scrutiny, it should always remain open for further examination.
religion is no different.
The problem is with religions that (like the vast majority of mainstream religions) claim to be written by God himself and so are flawless and need no revisement, they've put themselves into a bind. They can't just throw out a part of it because that would be admitting it wasn't flawless, and so couldn't have been written by a perfect being.
@Adriel Ramos jesus did existed his is in roman census you are one of the reason why people can't take atheist seriously.
@Adriel Ramos Yeshua maybe an uncommon Hebrew name is highly possible than they meet many man with that name.
Most historians agree that he existed in some form, but he probably wasn’t in any way magical or related to god.
@WHY YOU ARE AN IDIOT
Oh wow. You actually believe the earth doesn't have a core?
Next you'll be saying it's flat and gravity is a hoax created by the world's governments for some unknowable reason.
And newsflash, not only atheists believe in modern science. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together does.
@WHY YOU ARE AN IDIOT _you act like atheism is different they believe in a bunch of stuff they can't prove lol they actually believe a core exist inside the earth lol_
1. Atheism isn't a 'they'. Learn to grammar.
2. 'They' are also millions of theists and even theistic scientists, so go fuck yourself.
3. Atheism is a rejection of a claim, not a belief.
4. Atheists believe all kinds of different things, including but not limited to: spirits, flat earth with no core, reptilian conspiracies.
5. With the right tools it's easy to prove that the earth has a core. You just need to have some knowledge about wave propagation to be convinced by the methods used to prove that the earth has a core and to know what the densities are at various depths and you apparently have none of it.
6. If physical evidence is the best evidence than you should reject your god. The bible proves that your god is either not loving or non existent. A loving being wouldn't make belief in something you can't prove a requisite for paradise, nor would it demand worship like the biblical god does in both the old and new testament. A loving god would see that these things would slow down progress by taking away the focus from the actual world and it would see the dangers in making yourself vulnerable to charlatans in these ways. So you're either a coward, worshiping a maniac or a backwards idiot, or both.
I am a former Christian that recently came out as a lesbian. Imagine my grief, having to deal with my mother praying against my very nature. I haven’t even told her I stopped believing completely, and she just thinks I’ll walk happily back into a doctrine that believes there is something wrong with me wanting a girlfriend/wife.
That's sad. Hope you can make things better with her
@@cl0p38 things are much better now than they were. I don’t expect to see her at a wedding if I ever get married, but not nearly as bad as before, thank you.
@@Tinkify16 at least in your country you can marry if you want. In my country it is prohibited, and homosexual couples can't even adopt a kid, because if you want to adopt a kid you have to be married. And I live in europe.
@@kpisti680 I’m sorry these are things that other countries have to deal with. In reality, we only just got to this threshold in 2018 when our former President Obama legalized gay marriage. But it’s still barely a win, because they continue to try to take our rights back. Everyday is a fight, and we are trying to fight not just for ourselves, but for everyone else everywhere.
@@Tinkify16 don't let the difference in belief separate you from your mother
If your mother is truly a Christian then she would not let your worldy choices separate you both
And you too even if you don't believe anymore the fact that you are created by a being of Love shouldn't stop you from spreading Love
You probably needed that break from Religious stop if its affecting you negativly
when i first find out there were 3 Billion people who believed i should be killed for being an atheist and when i said "you all crazy" they replied with "hey respect my beliefs!". this is as if a murder said "you will die" and you say "i am innocent what did i do?" they reply with "hey respect me" respect someone who is going to kill me?
i dont want to come off as mean but I'm genuinely curious where you got this idea that Christians think you should be killed for being an athiest. I'm certain that if you talked to any genuine ones they would not say that
You're making an incredibly huge generalization by saying "3 Billion people who believed I should be killed for being an atheist." That is not at all what Christianity teaches, and if any so-called Christian has ever given you that impression, then I'm sorry on their part, for that is not how Christians-or anyone for that matter-should be talking to anyone. No, you shouldn't be killed because you're atheist. The truth is, all of us should be killed, because we're all sinners. But God loves us sinners so much that He came down in the flesh to take the hit for us even though we deserved it, pay the price for us even though we deserve to pay it, and free us of our punishment, therefore reconciling both justice and love on what is now known as the cross. Please reconsider Christianity and look at channels like InspiringPhilosophy and Give Me An Answer, I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised by how logical theism is, logical enough to warrant some of the most brilliant scholars' faith. God bless you.
"I shouldn't respect you for what you believe I should respect you for simply being human"
But someone can lose that respect if they believe in a system that doesn't respect others
@@kpisti680 Of course. I have lost part of my respect for some people for things about their beliefs. Still treat them like human beings, but I judge them silently and am a lot more wary of them around me in case they want to metaphorically stab me on the back
Only good human
I agree, especially with Pope Francis' emphasis on dialogue in general, even on religion, which can be a sensitive topic in some occasions.
I have many good friends who are theists. I may respect my friend's honor, his valor, his courage, his generosity, his sincerity, his commitment, his family values, his honesty and much more regarding his personality, but I do not respect his theist beliefs.
I respect people's beliefs only if the belief does no harm. I have no issues with people believing there is a god, or an afterlife. But, you must apply your beliefs in a way that has minimal impact on others, regardless of what you think of them.
Beliefs don't deserve respect unless they hold up to open scrutiny as neutral at worst. Beliefs shape behavior. Even if not affecting people immediately, they shape actions until they do. But don't downplay the person. As someone once said, "Respect people, not beliefs."
The issue is, some religious people can "do it wrong"
Either they are purely kind to themselves and all others. Or they practice self harm, religion causes them to ignore science and reason. Or they are complete dicks, acting hateful because "god tells them to"
but even "respectful" beliefs that are wrong can still lead to problems in society when you ACT upon those beliefs.
And all beliefs you believe to be true, are beliefs that will ultimately effect your actions. Now, that doesnt mean you have to be HOSTILE towards other people, but you should still point out inconsistencies when they appear. You shouldnt just let poor ideas or beliefs slide by without criticism. People still have a right TO those wrong beliefs, but you should still criticize them where they appear. (and obviously in the right time and place, its not always the right time to argue beliefs im not saying to just do it whenever or anything).
@@eragon78 Fair point, yet again we have to ask what beliefs could be harmful. And even then, if somebody sees a belief as harmful when it isn't. That could cause problems.
People deserve respect, but ideas never do. Any idea that is not subjected to the harshest possible criticism is an idea that is not worth having.
+Paul T Sjordal I think a default position should be to extend a basic level of respect, but respect is also earned.
I quite agree. One should grant a reasonable, small amount of basic respect initially. After that the person's words and deeds then should either diminish this respect or enhance and grow it further.
Beliefs, ideas and ideologies SHOULD absolutely be scrutinized thoroughly.
finalfantasy8911 There actually IS a logical reason why the default position should be to extend a BASIC LEVEL of respect. That's the key term here. I didn't say the default should be to extend all of your respect. Respect is mostly earned, no question about that. What I mean with a "basic level of respect" is common courtesy, and civility. The logical reason for that is that we live in a society, not in a bubble and if we want such society to have a basic level of peace, civility and harmony, by default you give people some initial level of respect and then build from that "earned respect". That's what I mean. By default you shouldn't "respect" everything someone says or does, that respect is earned, but you also don't cut someone off who's standing in a line just because you feel like it either. Maybe this clarifies a bit more what I was referring to.
rationalmartian That's precisely what I meant!
Hey, how you going about deciding which humans deserve your respect is up to you, but no idea ever deserves respect. If someone asks you to respect an idea, they are asking you to not criticize it, which only makes sense if you want to believe something that is not true.
"The earth isn't a globe for me and flat for you" "Where would you place a parent who threatens to burn a child who doesn't worship them" SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!
I wanna live in the void of your videos where objects, structures and eyeless people arise from nowhere.
I like the place
same
Yeah lol
I regret forgetting this lesson, but I had a teacher, and she explained to us that in some ancient cultures, some namely ones were in areas between China and Korea, India, and Central Africa, and in some Aboriginal groups in Australia, wiser folks strictly monitored different belief systems (their teachings), and the people that resulted from them (aggressive, docile, stable, unstable, conquerers, peacemakers, arrogant, humble etc). That for their needs, different regimes within the culture, would teach their children based off of their beliefs of different systems, the belief systems that suited them for their needs. So if a belief system or philosophical teachings/reasonings resulted in kinder and more docile people, someone might construe it as weak, particularly during times of war, and would seek a belief system or philosophical set that would result in more aggressive, violent, or angry people. Or vice versa. There was even fights within families what children should be taught and followed (ex the teachings of Buddha vs Genghis Khan). Only colonialism hit these countries (India, Africa, Australia), or devastating invasions that wiped out the cultural traditions (Japanese, Chinese invasions), and this, for the most part, went down the drain. But it's interesting that religions that has a long history resulting in violent or intolerant people such as Christianity or Muslimism are not conceived as such despite the overwhelming history behind it.
muslimism????? islam?????????????????
sorry i was ignorant. i looked it up and muslimism is a real word and not you not knowing what islam is
@@soupstoreclothinghahaha, at least you looked it up
This is giving me "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your *informed* opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant." vibes and I love it. Respect the person, not the opinion/belief.
The quote is from Harlan Ellison btw. He was quite the douche but the quote is fucking golden.
EDIT: I think at this point I should add the fact that I posted this nearly a year ago. I'm a teen. I change a lot from month to month, because I'm growing. I don't really stand by what I said this comment, but I also like reading the replies, so I'm not gonna delete it.
Well, yes, but he is not informed. He cherry picks some groups to support his atheism, and cannot investigate his own misplaced moral compass.
YES
@@smartgenes1 Then show us how your earth drowning God is any better?
technically everyone is entitled to everything, but other people are also entitled to react to that in any which way. The very notion of being "entitled" to something is quite stupid. There is only what happens and what doesn't.
That’s the biggest nothing burger of a statement I’ve ever read. You didn’t disprove anything
"it gives me hope for internal conflict" really touched me. you genuinely want them to learn and grow. you genuinely think about who they are, why they think this way, how they can improve. i always wanted more of this in my life. this is my first time watching you, but i adore what youre doing already.
dehumanization like this seems to have seeped its way into normal life, even without any religious context, the kind of fallacies that lead people to believe that one should be eternally tortured for something that tends to be ultimately harmless are still at large. it seriously makes me sort of lose hope in having a social life at all. but its these little sparks of hope, hope that theres more understanding people out there, that keep me going. thank you.
I don't think my entire life philosophy has ever been more succinctly summarized.
Sounds edgy
@@nothingbutsomething158 edgy but correct
@@astradewoodvale159 guys its correct cuz youtube said so. Gen z summed up
@@profile1172 What makes sense, makes sense. No matter through which medium the information is presented to you. As all mediums can be fabricated, you must find the truth.
Go read your newspapers or something lmao
@@profile1172 Perhaps it would be more credible to you if it was written in a parchment?
I'm a Christian but despite that, I agree 100% with the assertion that all beliefs should to be subject to criticism. Without criticism, how is it possible to determine what you actually believe? Athiest or religious, I think asking questions about what you believe is the most important thing you can do, and having others present you with difficult questions is a gift
A gift, sure, but only if you are willing to reexamine them yourself.
If not, you'll just be causing yourself and others a lot of frustration.
I had a really smart priest tell me the same thing once: It's GOOD to question your faith and beliefs, because it helps you figure out precisely what it is that you believe, and by extension what/who matters to you. I was still Catholic at the time, so I asked him "but what if that makes me lose my faith?" and he responded that ultimately, that would be ok because being a good person is more important than being a good christian. Now, that answer was probably technically sacrilegious but I thought it was brilliant lol. After all, I think that's basically the point of spirituality/religion anyway! (I mean I know a lot of religions _say_ that belief in the "right" God is a big deal, but if God is real, and is as loving as he is purported to be, then God would never turn a good person away from heaven just because they didn't believe the right thing... that would not be loving at all. Otherwise, there are a lot of issues, to say the least. For example, what about all the people that existed before Jesus was even born? Are they just royally screwed? Those poor Mesopotamians never even had a chance 😂 )
edit: fun fact -- that priest was one of the few married Catholic priests on earth! He was a Lutheran priest, realized he wanted to be Catholic but also really loved his wife, so he had to get permission from the Pope lol. Kinda weird they make exceptions for that, but I'm glad they do!
I am a firm believer that shielding oneself from criticism to try to cling to a faith of an individually weak foundation is among the more stark forms of stagnation as a person.
@@idontwantahandlethoughI'm a convert to Catholicism. It's actually standard to offer protestant converts that are already married, but feel the call to become priests, to be married priests. The prohibition of marriage for priests is not a moral issue, but a pragmatic issue, so there's really no contradiction.
@@Dragonmoon98Agreed and that pertains to atheists as well.
19:10
To a theist, a lack of heaven could be considered hell. I’ve heard multiple Christians say that the “torture” in hell is simply god’s absence. And to that I say: “like my current life?”
I saw something like this on a video by a guy who goes by the pseudonym Inspiring Philosophy on TH-cam when he was addressing the subject of hell. He was like placing your priority on anything else besides God is hell itself and I found that problematic.
Infact there are so many things wrong with that video but I can't verbalize them in words, I wish someone can help me articulate my thoughts on that video in words.
No because in your current life you have people around you that can help you and you still have a chance to be with God. once you die, you can't just change your mind. If you go to hell then you will be forever without even the tiniest sliver of hope, love, or peace.
@@MythicBeanProductions Why cant you change your mind.....Evidence please.
Lack of heaven/god is hell for them, but not for you. I think it's a bit of a misunderstanding between those theists and you.
To you, no heaven and no god is your normal life. This absence of heaven or god is something neutral.
To them, no heaven or god would be losing a big part of their life, and losing a reward they had been promised since their early childhood that protected them from fearing death. It would be losing a part of their identity that might comfort them. It would be a loss. So they would see it as a negative instead of a neutral.
So that leads to a situation where they're sorry for you and you're just like "what? I'm fine!" It seems like they don't understand that if they lost their belief in god, they could just base their happiness and identity on other things, and be just as fulfilled, because they've been taught there's no way anything will fulfill you more than their god.
@@MythicBeanProductions we do not need a chance to be with your god. We do not believe he exists. We do not believe hell exists. We have no need to live in fear of something that isn't proven to exist. Simple as that. Your idea of what will happen to us when we die doesn't really affect us you know... Doesn't "help" either.
It's funny that religion only works as long as you never question it until its too late. I attended several religious schools as a young kid and they'd have you singing hymns and attending church. I _was_ a Christian until I was around 7-8. Then I regurgitated some crap I heard about rainbows being God's gift to my mum and she explained what they really were, and I just ended up questioning everything else too. Soon I realised that nothing I was being taught made sense. I was the only atheist I knew of in the entire school and the other kids kept asking me why I didn't believe.
I hate that they resort to indoctrinating children from such young ages. Unfortunately that education is the standard in my country of birth.
I wish that was my upbringing. Imagine if your Dad beat you for blasphemy for asking questions about prisms and rainbows, and mum and family still go to church, and insist it's all real, and any questions are met with punishment for backtalking and blasphemy. Now, add in the entire small town community.
@@godgetti I was indeed lucky to have a firmly unreligious family. My extended family is _heavily_ religious, though, as is much of Northern Ireland.
yeah this is the problem with religions. they never got updated and new knowledge never got retconned into the teachings. you can weave God into the big bang theory, adam and eve doesn't have to be homo erectus or be the first ape ancestor ever. science can be woven into bible teachings to help expand knowledge and strengthen belief. islamic golden age gave birth to many inventors because they're curious about the world yet their faith to Allah are still as strong
Anytime a Christian begins hating on the Lgbtq community, I always bring up God's Gift :)
I used to be radically anti religious, but as I got older and my understanding of the world increase I began to realize that a system of beliefs like a religion is only as good as the people who take part in those beliefs. As such I choose to support those who give their beliefs a good name while decrying those who give their beliefs a bad name because it is my opinion that those who give the system of beliefs a bad name are ruining it for those who don't or those who could potentially find fulfillment in them but are turned away by bad people. Now lets see if my views line up with this video or whether I need to reconsider them.
did you reconsider?
i personally am an agnostic/ light atheist. idk if there is a god or not but there is no evidence for one so there is propably no god. even if we know that there is a god i would propably not pray to him.
in my opionion people should keep their believes to themself. you dont have to show it or tell other people about your believes. dont indoctrinate children let them chose when they are older and when they ask you what you think you can tell them.
@@xloltimex38 An agnostic is just an atheist without balls. Say you’re an atheist, like a man!
Sean I can really respect that view! It is frustrating personally how some people’s actions discredit my beliefs to the secular person, but at the same time no one is perfect, which is one of the first things Christianity needs one to recognize. There is a balance ofcourse, and no one gets away with anything, but the concepts of forgiveness and grace, such as any theoretical understanding, takes time to comprehend
Loltimex, I would like to suggest this. Remember, those with beliefs believe that it is the absolute truth. Even though ones understanding and knowledge grows over time, we believe that what we believe is the natural state of the world. Your point of view states that the natural state of the world is “probably” without a god. So my point is, from my perspective that is not a natural/true view, yet you suggest raising children with the “neutral” view of not believing anything. But to the believer, not believing anything IS an indoctrination in of itself. The nature of all biengs is for the older and experienced to pass on to the less experienced, seen in the case of children and their parents. There is NO neutral view; our function is to pass of what we believe is true, just like you would teach a child not to eat poisenous or rotten foods.
@@Cbawls if a belief can't be changed no matter how much evidence disproves or conflicts with it, I'm not convinced its a good belief. I do wonder how many people would still believe in God if we definitely knew he didn't exist, or how many would deny his existence if we proved him to exist. Even then, how many people would change their lifestyle one way or another?
I think if God was proved to exist, thiests' tendencies of supremacy and violence would be exaggerated, while if we proved his non existence athiests would just be casually arrogant. As we, honestly, sometimes can be already.
"But we have to acknowledge that this is exactly the kind of thinking that got us into this hellish place, making up whatever we want to believe" thanks for this one. I always struggled defending against people who don't follow certain peace's of religion.
No belief should go unchallenged. If no-one else is challenging what we believe, then we should challenge it ourselves.
Descartes already did that. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, especially when there is no one now living who can claim intellectual equivalence with Descartes.
Sounds like something someome below Descartes would say, Jason ;p
@@youtubeguy3174 That's me! The lowest of the low.
I think it is a good rule of thumb to challenge your own ideas at least twice as much challenging others.
if we challenged every belief we would have no time to eat or sleep. Should we start double checking every scientist's work to see for ourselves if they were right? Or should we trust and have faith that the education system is producing sound scientist's.