The main oil gallery on a N series is 5/8 inch diameter and on the T series the main oil gallery is 3/4 inch diameter for more oil to cool the pistons and as you said the larger oil cooler is there to keep temperatures under control and a very good talk about 53 series history and development thank you Detroit Garage well done. The dyno should be fun.
@joemaser9122 is the main oil galley straight and accessible? Would it be possible or beneficial to hone the galley on an N block larger ? Or is the casting to thin ? ( probably questions I could answer myself if I were to disassemble and inspect mine ...but it is running and stored off sight currently)
@@greywuufThe first N I turboed I discovered the difference and decided to open up the N oil passage I figured Detroit had a reason so I made a 11/16 drill bit long enough to drill the length of the block. You must check the block to make sure there's enough metal so as not to drill out the side of the casting
Good job and thank you. I run a 4-53N in my old USN utility boat which now serves as an USCG Auxiliary Patrol Facility. Always wondered if slapping a turbo on would be helpful. Now I know better. Cudos for putting a DD4-53 into a F350!
My girlfriends dad's boat has a 4-53n that has over 40k hours on it, sank twice, never had the head off, and original injectors. Runs perfectly, I believe rated around 130hp.
Thank you for this video. I've been around a lot of N's and remember maybe one T but never looked at the inside of a silver. I'm smarter after watching! Lol . This kind of educational video is great. Thank you again.
Really great video! So interesting all the little differences to keep in mind. I have a 451 valveless engine in a road grader. I'd sure love to learn more about them!
Thanks for the great video. Nice to see the difference on the 453's. The GMC's in the late 70's with the 453T's were horrible. Noisy, stunk of diesel, leaked oil, bad power band. But the 453T's were replaced by the Detroit 8.2L Fuel Pincher. What a disaster.
As usual very informative and entertaining video! Learned a lot and had many questions answered. I’m learning what i may want to do in the future through you! I have a 453N that I would like to throw a turbo on, just to keep hills from being an issue and killing my speed. If I could push 5 psi or so and use a similar blower bypass to the one you built, keep the N blower and higher compression pistons for cold starting ability, I’d be happy…for a while at least. I’d be intrigued to know what parts you would throw at a bare 53 series block to build “the ultimate” engine, taking the best aspects from the different series. Keep up the great work, much appreciated!
Thanks, that should work well for an N engine.:) I'm building a Silver Series 4-53T to be the ultimate engine. I'll also be dyno testing the different blowers, injectors and turbos so I can get the the best performing engine possible.:)
Look forward to the results! I’d love to have the space and funds to buy parts and try stuff…but the wife just gives me that look all wife’s do when you spend money on “projects”, so my wife should be thankful for you, as you will save her some of the trouble of scowling at me every time a heavy box with greasy finger prints shows up at the front door.
great stuff, thanks as always for sharing. a coupla questions, if you have a moment, please - what is different with your modified cam, running in the Ford? - how does the amended pressure setting changes things, with your modified blower bypass? - would you consider doing a similar tear-down, of a Bivens 8V96, for us all to learn about the magic modifications? )
The cam is a V7 high lift cam that's been ground with a different profile I bought from Leid Diesel. The profile they've used is a closely kept secret that they won't share. I'm told that combined with the tall port liners give the engine more air combined with the N blower.:) I'm build the next Silver back to Detroit specs to see how well it runs compared to my engine.:) The blower bypass opens at 10 psi turbo boost and works very well. I've tried 5-6 psi opening pressures, but wasn't clean burning at the 5-6 psi, so 10 is very clean. Engine makes 12 psi boost and with the water meth on 16.:) Again I'll be running comparison test on the dyno to see which blower works best for the larger injectors. If I could find a cheap Bivens 8V96, I'd maybe do a teardown, but they're almost impossible to find. The 8V92, and Bivens 8V96 are just too large for my use.:)
In addition to the mentioned differences, didn't T blowers also have revised rotor to rotor and rotor to housing clearances to accommodate higher temperatures and larger rotor flex?
Yes, the clearances are great for the T blowers. When using an N Blower on a T engine the rotors need to be shaved a little to increase the clearances.:)
Is the bypass valve the same on all Detroit engines i.e 53 to 92? How do you know if it's working or not? I would love to see you take one apart and rebuild it if that's a thing.
The valves are pretty much the same. Very simple unit and really nothing to rebuild. Can be tested using vacuum and also on the engine by comparing airbox pressure to turbo boost. When the valve opens the airbox pressure should fall and be close to the turbo boost.:)
It would be nice to section a cracked cylinder head with a bandsaw to see if it's possible to machine dogbones in. Might be a good mod. The reason I mention it, Wayne on Ol2Stroker last week was showing the world's only common rail 8V92 and they stressed it in racing and it failed. Its heavily modified. Anyhow, after solving one problem they cracked a cylinder head (or both) and I said in the comments, "You overcome one power limiting factor - the Detroit injection system only to find the cylinder heads are now the weak spot. Hot rodding that." "He replied, we have a plan." We'll have to wait I suppose since the vid was only a few days ago (but there might be a lead time in his vids so who knows?). After you showed the dogbone in the head surface, I can't help but wonder if it's possible now and that might be how they solve cracking at very high power outputs. (I'm saving this comment in Word to repost just in case lol)
Is it possible to correspond with you directly somehow? ...I have a similar old project truck ( 52 gmc 630) and would like some input on a few of the project goals and how i plan to achieve them. I value your input as you have a similar situation to mine here in Alaska as far as parts and weather and general expectations. As far as range and being remote and possibly a little farther from roadside assistance
I have only seen one on TH-cam with a whipple supercharger, no updates that I can find on the performance. Here's the link: th-cam.com/video/iQ0F-tFruYE/w-d-xo.html
The blow by on turboed Ns is the piston the oil drain back holes in the top oil ring groove let turbo boost from the airbox blow into the crankcase drive pins or rivets can be driven into the drain back holes to prevent the blowby problem. The wide oil ring in the top groove is another way to control blowby on the N,T combination the piston skirts and oil ring package is a good piston to look at to see the changes on T engines to stop blow-by and.oil consumption
@@joemaser9122 no i found the 92 to be a pig of an engine,worked on a fleet of domino buses with the 6v92 and allison autos,there were 3 different revisions of the v92 blower drive and they a;ll snapped like carrots or stripped the splines,the deluxe coach fleet had a mix of 8v71's and 6v92TA and TTA and the 8v71's used to have to pull over and sit cos they were to far ahead of shedule LOL,and it still made the kalbarri-perth run 2 hours ahead of time LOL,i clocked them at 160km/h on a few occaiasions
Compared to the 1970's or 1980's.........turbo's have progressed a a lot to where they are now. Generally speaking, the compressor sections pump more boost at lower temperatures......it can be as much as 50% more air density.
Very true, I'm going to be testing the stock Garrett, then compare it to a modified garrett and then new turbo's. I'm running a new compressor wheel 59mm on my Silver and love it.:)
Finally got to try to fire up my 4-53N and had no luck ....the rack was stuck on two injectors ....and those same two injectors were also stuck, or rather they depressed and stuck once i rolled the engine over. Odd thing those injectors are both C50's cyl 1 and 3 .....cylinders 2 and 4 freed up and they are both N50's. Is there any reason two run mismatched injectors and better yet is there good reason not too?
Probably missed matched because they didn’t have a set of 4 of either injectors, so they just used what they had. I’ll check the manual in the morning and see what mm the c50 is compared to n50’s. Probably the same fueling. I’ve run across this on one engine, but really don’t recommend running mismatched injectors. Having said that I testing 2 7A77’s and 2 7E75’s on the dyno to see if I can notice any difference.
OK I checked the N50 vs C50 and they deliver the same fuel, so almost identical. The plunger stroke is slightly different, but not enough that Jimmy would know. Who ever swapped the C50's with the N50's knew this.:) P.S. They also share the same tips.:)
@detroitgarage9430 thank you for that info. Last question you wouldn't happen to know the timing dimension on those would you ? .... I am assuming the standard 1.48x ?
Aggghhhhh!. Soaked my stuck injectors over night in fresh diesel. Pulled em out cleaned all the passages with carb cleaner. And rapped the first one with a soft faced hammer. Popped up and freed the rack. A little lube and worked it by hand and good to go. On to the second one .... rapped it twice with a soft face hammer and the top "follower" portion broke into 3 pieces ...the flat that the rocker contacts.
The main oil gallery on a N series is 5/8 inch diameter and on the T series the main oil gallery is 3/4 inch diameter for more oil to cool the pistons and as you said the larger oil cooler is there to keep temperatures under control and a very good talk about 53 series history and development thank you Detroit Garage well done. The dyno should be fun.
Thanks Joe, something else I never knew.:)
@joemaser9122 is the main oil galley straight and accessible? Would it be possible or beneficial to hone the galley on an N block larger ? Or is the casting to thin ? ( probably questions I could answer myself if I were to disassemble and inspect mine ...but it is running and stored off sight currently)
@@greywuuf Possibly, I'll have a peek and see.
@@greywuufThe first N I turboed I discovered the difference and decided to open up the N oil passage I figured Detroit had a reason so I made a 11/16 drill bit long enough to drill the length of the block. You must check the block to make sure there's enough metal so as not to drill out the side of the casting
Good job and thank you. I run a 4-53N in my old USN utility boat which now serves as an USCG Auxiliary Patrol Facility. Always wondered if slapping a turbo on would be helpful. Now I know better. Cudos for putting a DD4-53 into a F350!
Thanks and thanks for watching.:)
the only issue you would have in a marine application would be the valves and seats
My dad used a 4-53 Detroit diesel in his 1954 clam boat. He owned it for nearly thirty years and didn’t have a single problem with it.
Awesome, love hearing those kind of stories.:)
My girlfriends dad's boat has a 4-53n that has over 40k hours on it, sank twice, never had the head off, and original injectors. Runs perfectly, I believe rated around 130hp.
Good stuff, keep it up brother!
Thanks.:)
Thank you for this video. I've been around a lot of N's and remember maybe one T but never looked at the inside of a silver. I'm smarter after watching! Lol . This kind of educational video is great. Thank you again.
Thanks and thanks for watching.:)
Really great video! So interesting all the little differences to keep in mind. I have a 451 valveless engine in a road grader. I'd sure love to learn more about them!
Thanks, the 51 series is a sweet engine.:) Never seen one in person, just videos. Must sound nice in the grader.:)
Thanks for the great video. Nice to see the difference on the 453's. The GMC's in the late 70's with the 453T's were horrible. Noisy, stunk of diesel, leaked oil, bad power band. But the 453T's were replaced by the Detroit 8.2L Fuel Pincher. What a disaster.
Yeah the 8.2 was nasty.:)
@@detroitgarage9430 Not in a pickup that's were all 8.2 should have went in Chevy pickups and they would have owned market share
As usual very informative and entertaining video! Learned a lot and had many questions answered. I’m learning what i may want to do in the future through you! I have a 453N that I would like to throw a turbo on, just to keep hills from being an issue and killing my speed. If I could push 5 psi or so and use a similar blower bypass to the one you built, keep the N blower and higher compression pistons for cold starting ability, I’d be happy…for a while at least. I’d be intrigued to know what parts you would throw at a bare 53 series block to build “the ultimate” engine, taking the best aspects from the different series. Keep up the great work, much appreciated!
Thanks, that should work well for an N engine.:) I'm building a Silver Series 4-53T to be the ultimate engine. I'll also be dyno testing the different blowers, injectors and turbos so I can get the the best performing engine possible.:)
Look forward to the results! I’d love to have the space and funds to buy parts and try stuff…but the wife just gives me that look all wife’s do when you spend money on “projects”, so my wife should be thankful for you, as you will save her some of the trouble of scowling at me every time a heavy box with greasy finger prints shows up at the front door.
Thank you so much for sharing this. Makes me feel as though I can use most of what I have ( '76 453N) without courting disaster to bad.
I'm glad it's helpful.:) Thanks for watching.:)
Awesome video as always very informative!
Thanks.:)
Excellent, great information thank you.
Thanks, and thanks for watching.:)
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for the info.
great stuff, thanks as always for sharing.
a coupla questions, if you have a moment, please
- what is different with your modified cam, running in the Ford?
- how does the amended pressure setting changes things, with your modified blower bypass?
- would you consider doing a similar tear-down, of a Bivens 8V96, for us all to learn about the magic modifications? )
The cam is a V7 high lift cam that's been ground with a different profile I bought from Leid Diesel. The profile they've used is a closely kept secret that they won't share. I'm told that combined with the tall port liners give the engine more air combined with the N blower.:) I'm build the next Silver back to Detroit specs to see how well it runs compared to my engine.:) The blower bypass opens at 10 psi turbo boost and works very well. I've tried 5-6 psi opening pressures, but wasn't clean burning at the 5-6 psi, so 10 is very clean. Engine makes 12 psi boost and with the water meth on 16.:) Again I'll be running comparison test on the dyno to see which blower works best for the larger injectors. If I could find a cheap Bivens 8V96, I'd maybe do a teardown, but they're almost impossible to find. The 8V92, and Bivens 8V96 are just too large for my use.:)
In addition to the mentioned differences, didn't T blowers also have revised rotor to rotor and rotor to housing clearances to accommodate higher temperatures and larger rotor flex?
Yes, the clearances are great for the T blowers. When using an N Blower on a T engine the rotors need to be shaved a little to increase the clearances.:)
Is the bypass valve the same on all Detroit engines i.e 53 to 92? How do you know if it's working or not? I would love to see you take one apart and rebuild it if that's a thing.
The valves are pretty much the same. Very simple unit and really nothing to rebuild. Can be tested using vacuum and also on the engine by comparing airbox pressure to turbo boost. When the valve opens the airbox pressure should fall and be close to the turbo boost.:)
*Detroit School*
It would be nice to section a cracked cylinder head with a bandsaw to see if it's possible to machine dogbones in.
Might be a good mod.
The reason I mention it, Wayne on Ol2Stroker last week was showing the world's only common rail 8V92 and they stressed it in racing and it failed. Its heavily modified.
Anyhow, after solving one problem they cracked a cylinder head (or both) and I said in the comments, "You overcome one power limiting factor - the Detroit injection system only to find the cylinder heads are now the weak spot. Hot rodding that."
"He replied, we have a plan."
We'll have to wait I suppose since the vid was only a few days ago (but there might be a lead time in his vids so who knows?).
After you showed the dogbone in the head surface, I can't help but wonder if it's possible now and that might be how they solve cracking at very high power outputs.
(I'm saving this comment in Word to repost just in case lol)
Great vid
Thanks.:)
Is it possible to correspond with you directly somehow? ...I have a similar old project truck ( 52 gmc 630) and would like some input on a few of the project goals and how i plan to achieve them. I value your input as you have a similar situation to mine here in Alaska as far as parts and weather and general expectations. As far as range and being remote and possibly a little farther from roadside assistance
Sure, you can email me at emerald310@gmail.com or call me @ 778-477-1745.:)
I always wondered about putting a radius on the liner ports to let the air in better?
Yeah, that's why I went with the tall port liners on my Silver in my truck. Going to see how the short port liners do.:)
@@detroitgarage9430 Time to put a liner on the flow bench inside a part of a block
Do you know of anyone who has installed a screw compressor in place of the roots blower?
I have only seen one on TH-cam with a whipple supercharger, no updates that I can find on the performance. Here's the link: th-cam.com/video/iQ0F-tFruYE/w-d-xo.html
Very good Thanks
I'd love a 4-53 Silver Series in little S10 single-cab.
Now that would be a fun project.:)
The blow by on turboed Ns is the piston the oil drain back holes in the top oil ring groove let turbo boost from the airbox blow into the crankcase drive pins or rivets can be driven into the drain back holes to prevent the blowby problem. The wide oil ring in the top groove is another way to control blowby on the N,T combination the piston skirts and oil ring package is a good piston to look at to see the changes on T engines to stop blow-by and.oil consumption
Thanks Joe.:)
It would be fun to convert 4-53 to common rail like Wayno's friend did to crusty fat cab
That would be a sweet setup.:)
yeah the blower drives were a problem on engines such as the 6v53 turbo
Andrewsmart the blower drive can be up dated as the 92 series to prevent the blower drive from being an issue
@@joemaser9122 no i found the 92 to be a pig of an engine,worked on a fleet of domino buses with the 6v92 and allison autos,there were 3 different revisions of the v92 blower drive and they a;ll snapped like carrots or stripped the splines,the deluxe coach fleet had a mix of 8v71's and 6v92TA and TTA and the 8v71's used to have to pull over and sit cos they were to far ahead of shedule LOL,and it still made the kalbarri-perth run 2 hours ahead of time LOL,i clocked them at 160km/h on a few occaiasions
Is there a stand alone controller to run the 5r110 in your superduty?
There are, but it's better to run the Ford PCM/TCM and tune with HPTuners. That's what I did and it works like factory.
@@detroitgarage9430 that's awesome. Last I checked (years ago) there were no options for that. I'd love one behind my 7.3
@@craiga9492 They're a really nice trans.:)
@@detroitgarage9430 they certainly. I have one in my superduty but the 6.0 isnt as nice
HP-what percent of aftermarket parts you are using are chinesium?
All the parts are US made either genuine Detroit (used) or new FP parts. Foe the Turbo's the compressor wheel and bearings are Chinese.:)
good info..
Thanks.:)
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Compared to the 1970's or 1980's.........turbo's have progressed a a lot to where they are now. Generally speaking, the compressor sections pump more boost at lower temperatures......it can be as much as 50% more air density.
Very true, I'm going to be testing the stock Garrett, then compare it to a modified garrett and then new turbo's. I'm running a new compressor wheel 59mm on my Silver and love it.:)
U don't happen to have the rotor part number. I have a blower off a N 4-53 that looks like yours. One rotor froze and cracked. Rest of it looks fine
Yes the N rotor part number is 5139298.:)
Nice info on these motors. I think the turbine measurements are in mm and not inches.
Yes, mm's.:) Maybe I said inches in the video, but yes mm's.:)
Finally got to try to fire up my 4-53N and had no luck ....the rack was stuck on two injectors ....and those same two injectors were also stuck, or rather they depressed and stuck once i rolled the engine over. Odd thing those injectors are both C50's cyl 1 and 3 .....cylinders 2 and 4 freed up and they are both N50's. Is there any reason two run mismatched injectors and better yet is there good reason not too?
Probably missed matched because they didn’t have a set of 4 of either injectors, so they just used what they had. I’ll check the manual in the morning and see what mm the c50 is compared to n50’s. Probably the same fueling. I’ve run across this on one engine, but really don’t recommend running mismatched injectors. Having said that I testing 2 7A77’s and 2 7E75’s on the dyno to see if I can notice any difference.
OK I checked the N50 vs C50 and they deliver the same fuel, so almost identical. The plunger stroke is slightly different, but not enough that Jimmy would know. Who ever swapped the C50's with the N50's knew this.:) P.S. They also share the same tips.:)
@detroitgarage9430 thank you for that info. Last question you wouldn't happen to know the timing dimension on those would you ? .... I am assuming the standard 1.48x ?
Aggghhhhh!. Soaked my stuck injectors over night in fresh diesel. Pulled em out cleaned all the passages with carb cleaner. And rapped the first one with a soft faced hammer. Popped up and freed the rack. A little lube and worked it by hand and good to go. On to the second one .... rapped it twice with a soft face hammer and the top "follower" portion broke into 3 pieces ...the flat that the rocker contacts.
@@greywuuf 1.47" for the C injectors and 1.46 for the N injectors.:) I'd just use 1.47" and that would work well.:)
Dimpling port it like golf Ball
Had blower drive gears fail alot on 353 slack in teeth noise broke teeth on backhoes old 190 Dynahoe
Thanks, I've been lucky so far.:)
Good video
Thanks.:)
I think the t was more like 85 horsepower. Not 185
The industrial 4-53T is 175 HP and the Silver T was 185 HP. The N was rated at 108-130 HP.:)
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