Hi Arum. Nice work on the videos. Great analysis and observations. And yes the things you spotted which could be better were spot on. We worked on those things too. The great thing about rowing is that’s it constant search for elusive perfection. Never possible to reach it though is it? That’s why we keep coming back to the river time and time again.
You have done an outstanding job Tony! Syncing force curves with experienced rowers in such a short time is very difficult. Would you be up for an interview/relaxed chat?
Hi Tony and Aram, is w\there anyhere online where you can see a full version of the VIII final? I can only find highlights on youtube (unless the VIII managed a blistering 4 mins!!). Cheers, Scott
As a rower and a (volunteer Level II) coach of adult novices in a small club, I am LOVING your videos. I'm "just" a master rower who helps with growing our club after the Learn to Row by coaching a group of 15-20 new rowers, so I, myself, have a lot to learn about rowing AND coaching. I'm learning and appreciating so much from the way you present the concepts and point out excellent examples. Thanks!
I was driving down the motorway in my town (only around 50k people). And had this race streaming on my car holder. I couldn't believe that we took the gold. 100% underdogs and even at the start the commentators were dubious. Thanks Aram for the breakdown. I'll be sending this to our Master's WhatsApp group chat as they are out in a mixed 8 tomorrow morning!
"Blitzschnell beim Setzen und alle Ruhe nach dem Ausheben": Das sanfte Einsetzen des Blattes und spritzfreie, unmittelbare Druckaufnahme und sauberes Ausbeben mit aller Zeit der Welt danach sind schon ein Genuss für' s Auge.
I saw these videos on youtube too, and was instanly amazed. Would be cool to do a video with the coach and talk about his insights on coaching and how he got the 8 to row like this. Dont know if its possible tho
We watched this vid at rowing camp, at about 9 at night, after a full day, and afterwards all we could remember is "Not trying to be a fanboy", but on rewatch, great vid!
I was and never have been a fan of a pronounced "stop" at the finish but the late Derek Drury who was one of the best coaches the UK had used it a lot. This video has made me modify my view somewhat in that I still would not recommend a stop but more of a slow down and gather. The "steam train" start has always been a favourite of mine (as the likes of Kieran, Rich, Will and Charles will testify) and this video is the best I have ever seen and that includes the best East Germany could produce in the 70s plus or minus. My only observation is that I would not mind backsplash and getting the blade in before pushing with the leg drive a LITTLE bit earlier than some in the crew. That is the only thing I would comment on were I (in a virtual world) given the chance to comment on them. I have sent this video to three of my clubs with a recommendation to have a look especially for novices. You must as a novice have an image in mind and what better than that from an Olympic gold medal crew that can actually row well rather than relying on erg power and physiology. All these oarsmen also competed for some months in singles and all gave Mr Bond a good run for his money by the end even the engine room! Chris George
Hi Chris (ex DUBC?). Slow and gather is correct. It's certainly not a pause. I have very little time for that too. Our sport is one of flow on a fluid, therefore we should mirror that and be fluid as well.
@@tonyoconnor8690 Yup! that is the one from 1965 to 1969. Still go over two or three times a year when I get the chance Will miss the Liffey Sculling Ladder time trial this year as in full time training for IM, Headed off to SA for November 21st BTW I was really impressed with your podcast and think BR could learn a lot by using part time non-professional coaches like John West and Rusty Williams as they did a few decades ago much to their benefit. Would loved to have been a fly on the wall in the recent board meetings of BR!
Chris, I have taken the view in recent years that it’s doesn’t matter what you do provided you do it together regards finish pause/flow. However, you don’t pause at 36spm so unless very experienced/talented (like these guys!) I always encourage same speed away as they come in.
PS Tony... managed to qualify in SA and got back just in time (flew out on the Monday immediately after the prize giving) Am self isolating and LF testing every day (all negative) along with three PCR tests spread out over 12 days.
Thank you for the great video. I uesed to row nearly ten years and still miss it. At some time of the video the boat is shaking from left to right, cause they are not all pulling with theeir hands on the same level. What would be your advice to learn rowing on the same level of hands to keep the boat stable. Another question. A lot of people are always discussing that an eight should never "stomp" in water. Meaning that the top of the boat should be always keept over the water. What do you think of that therory? Thank you in advance!
With good technique and synchronization you gain tenths of a second, with good strength and physical condition you gain whole seconds. A cordial greeting.
It depends on the level of your athletes. There comes a point where the physique is maxed out and / or physical advantages over others are difficult to gain.
Hey Aram I have a question, at Juniors im always taught get all body length before you break the knees, but when I watch elite rowers, their body although it gets early length continues to move through the slide. Is this concept being talked about at juniors exaggerated so people get more early length, or should you really be rowing full length before you break the knees. Also how do you balance talking about weight on the feet before quaterslide and also neutral pressure on the foot plate on the slide
Aram, you mentioned that beginners should set their shoulders square to the gunwales of the boat at the finish, but where do you stand on the idea that as they become stronger and more experienced they should draw the outside shoulders 'around the pin' before finishing with the arms? Also, watching this crew one of the more remarkable things I see is the ability of 6 seat (Phil Wilson) to communicate the rhythm from the stern pair back to the rest of the crew. It's almost like he's a 2nd 7 seat backing up the stroke. He very connected throughout the drive, and he does a great job of isolating the stern pair from the noise coming from further back by the big men putting down the watts. Are those kind of 'unique' crew dynamics common at elite level in your experience?
Hi Seán, this NZ Eight is something special, something you do not see very often. My personal impression is that those (frequent) position and even rigging changes created or at least helped to create a unified understanding of rhythm and forcecurves. Although the latter were most likely not synced to the max, as this is very difficult to do if hip mobility is an issue, it was still better than with most other teams. What Tony did that most other coaches do not dare to do was to keep the upper body swing a central element of the drive phase. While this can lead to forcecurves becoming even less coherent, the emphasize on late and punctuated upper body swing (closer to Tokyo) has brought an unbeatable advantage over UK and GER. (I might be completely wrong with my assumption, though.) Concerning the shoulder motion at the finish: personally, I prefer less shoulder motion. At such a late stage of the drive, the boat speed is too high and the blade angle to high to create a significant effect. The shoulder is more a transfer element of force than an active lever. Imho...
Aram, I was in NZ crews some time ago, so biased maybe, but want to say there are real gems in your analysis that strike home so much for fast sweep rowing
They don’t pause at the finish. The handle never stops moving. At those who interpret it as pausing are doing it wrong. It’s becoming a norm in US rowing and you lose the rhythm as a result.
J’adore , je comprend à voir les exercices pour les avoir pratique dans ma jeunesse , dommage que je comprend pas la langue , mais c’est très intéressant à montrer lors de séances vidéo pour dés club 👏👏
In the past you praised the delayed body opening of some sweep boats as very efficient: th-cam.com/video/e_5aVnWfHbk/w-d-xo.html. This crew (as do others) opens the body simultaneously with the leg drive, which creates a strong early drive. Has your perspective changed or would you consider this as a style option?
Hi Christian, no. I am still of the same opinion. If you watch Tony's footage closer to the Olympics, I have the impression that a later and more punctuated upper body swing had been emphasized.
Hi Arum. Nice work on the videos. Great analysis and observations. And yes the things you spotted which could be better were spot on. We worked on those things too. The great thing about rowing is that’s it constant search for elusive perfection. Never possible to reach it though is it? That’s why we keep coming back to the river time and time again.
Really enjoying all the footage you’ve been posting
You have done an outstanding job Tony! Syncing force curves with experienced rowers in such a short time is very difficult.
Would you be up for an interview/relaxed chat?
@@AramTraining Sure thing Arum
Awesome! Let us connect! Could you send a quick e-mail to info@aramtraining.com?
Hi Tony and Aram, is w\there anyhere online where you can see a full version of the VIII final? I can only find highlights on youtube (unless the VIII managed a blistering 4 mins!!). Cheers, Scott
As a rower and a (volunteer Level II) coach of adult novices in a small club, I am LOVING your videos. I'm "just" a master rower who helps with growing our club after the Learn to Row by coaching a group of 15-20 new rowers, so I, myself, have a lot to learn about rowing AND coaching. I'm learning and appreciating so much from the way you present the concepts and point out excellent examples. Thanks!
I was driving down the motorway in my town (only around 50k people). And had this race streaming on my car holder. I couldn't believe that we took the gold. 100% underdogs and even at the start the commentators were dubious.
Thanks Aram for the breakdown. I'll be sending this to our Master's WhatsApp group chat as they are out in a mixed 8 tomorrow morning!
This is one of these great moments we will remember for a very long time
"Blitzschnell beim Setzen und alle Ruhe nach dem Ausheben": Das sanfte Einsetzen des Blattes und spritzfreie, unmittelbare Druckaufnahme und sauberes Ausbeben mit aller Zeit der Welt danach sind schon ein Genuss für' s Auge.
I saw these videos on youtube too, and was instanly amazed. Would be cool to do a video with the coach and talk about his insights on coaching and how he got the 8 to row like this. Dont know if its possible tho
Would love to
In case you aren't aware, Tony has done more than one podcast since the olympics. Very worth checking out
Go and listen to his pod cast
@@cameronogilvie3364 thanks ill look it up
We watched this vid at rowing camp, at about 9 at night, after a full day, and afterwards all we could remember is "Not trying to be a fanboy", but on rewatch, great vid!
I loved the fluidity in the movement regardless of whether the rate is sub 20 or 40 plus. Water is fluid the movement needs to match that
My philosophy completely Adrian!! Water flows so we should flow.
One unit moving in perfect, effortless-looking unison.Very impressive.
Congratulations, Aram and Tony. Incredible work! Thanks a lot for this video!!!
I rowed against Tony Hurt and his '76 NZ team in Syracuse.
Excellent analysis as always!
Sam sent us here
I was and never have been a fan of a pronounced "stop" at the finish but the late Derek Drury who was one of the best coaches the UK had used it a lot. This video has made me modify my view somewhat in that I still would not recommend a stop but more of a slow down and gather. The "steam train" start has always been a favourite of mine (as the likes of Kieran, Rich, Will and Charles will testify) and this video is the best I have ever seen and that includes the best East Germany could produce in the 70s plus or minus. My only observation is that I would not mind backsplash and getting the blade in before pushing with the leg drive a LITTLE bit earlier than some in the crew. That is the only thing I would comment on were I (in a virtual world) given the chance to comment on them. I have sent this video to three of my clubs with a recommendation to have a look especially for novices. You must as a novice have an image in mind and what better than that from an Olympic gold medal crew that can actually row well rather than relying on erg power and physiology. All these oarsmen also competed for some months in singles and all gave Mr Bond a good run for his money by the end even the engine room!
Chris George
Hi Chris (ex DUBC?). Slow and gather is correct. It's certainly not a pause. I have very little time for that too. Our sport is one of flow on a fluid, therefore we should mirror that and be fluid as well.
@@tonyoconnor8690 Yup! that is the one from 1965 to 1969. Still go over two or three times a year when I get the chance Will miss the Liffey Sculling Ladder time trial this year as in full time training for IM, Headed off to SA for November 21st BTW I was really impressed with your podcast and think BR could learn a lot by using part time non-professional coaches like John West and Rusty Williams as they did a few decades ago much to their benefit.
Would loved to have been a fly on the wall in the recent board meetings of BR!
Chris, I have taken the view in recent years that it’s doesn’t matter what you do provided you do it together regards finish pause/flow. However, you don’t pause at 36spm so unless very experienced/talented (like these guys!) I always encourage same speed away as they come in.
PS Tony... managed to qualify in SA and got back just in time (flew out on the Monday immediately after the prize giving) Am self isolating and LF testing every day (all negative) along with three PCR tests spread out over 12 days.
Review the Athens 2004 USA M8+!
You should have a look at the final the fawley cup at Henley 2021 Tideway scullers vs Windsor Boys
I actually laughed out loud when you said "and I like that house" 😂
It is beautiful :)
Tony O'Conner is my uncle
Do you think rowing with feet out helps to teach the minimization/correct amount/timing of back swing?
Great video thanks
We stared nearly all our rows feet 2km of feet out.
Thank you for the great video. I uesed to row nearly ten years and still miss it. At some time of the video the boat is shaking from left to right, cause they are not all pulling with theeir hands on the same level. What would be your advice to learn rowing on the same level of hands to keep the boat stable. Another question. A lot of people are always discussing that an eight should never "stomp" in water. Meaning that the top of the boat should be always keept over the water. What do you think of that therory? Thank you in advance!
Do the u23 m4+ and m4-please
Hamish’s catch is the best ever known in rowing history!
Please make a video on best strategy for 500m race
@11:16 “nobody leaning back too much”
Ok, yet Hamish famously leans back as far as one can, so what does “too much “ mean?
He is still connected to his foot stretchers, meaning he still applies force effectively
oarsome!
You go slowly.with one and at the beginning and then the 2.all is technical effort...timing 2-2
With good technique and synchronization you gain tenths of a second, with good strength and physical condition you gain whole seconds.
A cordial greeting.
It depends on the level of your athletes. There comes a point where the physique is maxed out and / or physical advantages over others are difficult to gain.
Hey Aram I have a question, at Juniors im always taught get all body length before you break the knees, but when I watch elite rowers, their body although it gets early length continues to move through the slide. Is this concept being talked about at juniors exaggerated so people get more early length, or should you really be rowing full length before you break the knees.
Also how do you balance talking about weight on the feet before quaterslide and also neutral pressure on the foot plate on the slide
Love your work man ! Amazing analysis that will help us for sure during our long boat season in France. I am going to share it to my teammates !
Aram, you mentioned that beginners should set their shoulders square to the gunwales of the boat at the finish, but where do you stand on the idea that as they become stronger and more experienced they should draw the outside shoulders 'around the pin' before finishing with the arms?
Also, watching this crew one of the more remarkable things I see is the ability of 6 seat (Phil Wilson) to communicate the rhythm from the stern pair back to the rest of the crew. It's almost like he's a 2nd 7 seat backing up the stroke. He very connected throughout the drive, and he does a great job of isolating the stern pair from the noise coming from further back by the big men putting down the watts. Are those kind of 'unique' crew dynamics common at elite level in your experience?
Hi Seán, this NZ Eight is something special, something you do not see very often. My personal impression is that those (frequent) position and even rigging changes created or at least helped to create a unified understanding of rhythm and forcecurves. Although the latter were most likely not synced to the max, as this is very difficult to do if hip mobility is an issue, it was still better than with most other teams. What Tony did that most other coaches do not dare to do was to keep the upper body swing a central element of the drive phase. While this can lead to forcecurves becoming even less coherent, the emphasize on late and punctuated upper body swing (closer to Tokyo) has brought an unbeatable advantage over UK and GER. (I might be completely wrong with my assumption, though.)
Concerning the shoulder motion at the finish: personally, I prefer less shoulder motion. At such a late stage of the drive, the boat speed is too high and the blade angle to high to create a significant effect. The shoulder is more a transfer element of force than an active lever. Imho...
Aram, I was in NZ crews some time ago, so biased maybe, but want to say there are real gems in your analysis that strike home so much for fast sweep rowing
Hey, thank you very much for taking the time to write me. Very much appreciated
Thank you for the clear explanation. Amazing! Do you know how much is the spread they use?
Unfortunately not.
most boats still have like a small but semi noticeable this boat is literall all the same person 😂 they move exactly together
They don’t pause at the finish. The handle never stops moving. At those who interpret it as pausing are doing it wrong. It’s becoming a norm in US rowing and you lose the rhythm as a result.
You made similar comments about the fluidity of the St Paul’s 2018 VIII at Henley?
J’adore , je comprend à voir les exercices pour les avoir pratique dans ma jeunesse , dommage que je comprend pas la langue , mais c’est très intéressant à montrer lors de séances vidéo pour dés club 👏👏
1:41 ‘I’m not tryna be a fanboy’
Very nice Aram , for me This the 80's rowing style and I love it , very good analysis , thx Aram this is a nice work and amazing for the rowing school
Much appreciated
Its a waltz. 1234
In the past you praised the delayed body opening of some sweep boats as very efficient: th-cam.com/video/e_5aVnWfHbk/w-d-xo.html. This crew (as do others) opens the body simultaneously with the leg drive, which creates a strong early drive. Has your perspective changed or would you consider this as a style option?
Hi Christian, no. I am still of the same opinion. If you watch Tony's footage closer to the Olympics, I have the impression that a later and more punctuated upper body swing had been emphasized.
Fastest national* eight
Would you know a faster one?
Is that Whatsisname at 2?
Hamish bond?
@@julianthomson541 He is at 7
@@tommasoantoni5202 what are you on about? Hamish is clearly in 2 seat. You need to get your eyes checked🤣
I have rowed next to these guys at maadi
Same bro