8 months ago I bought the Hellcat Pro. After some shopping around and videos like this, decided my first pistol-mounted red dot will be a Vortex Defender. For last several years had Red and green dots mounted on all 5 of my long guns.
I have installed a few of those and I like them. You get a Pic Rail mounting base; ability to fit regular size and micro guns, and best of all, labelled mounting hardware kits for use on all popular guns. And the price is right, too!
Hopefully you get a longer lifespan outta the Vortex then I did my Viridian RFX 35 and Primary Arms RS-10. Both failed in the 750-1000 rounds ballpark. Love that SF, looking to add that model to my Canik family.
Thanks HR, I like vortex optics a lot. I have two vortex scopes on two of my hunting rifles and also my binoculars I use for hunting are vortex……all have worked extremely well for me.
excellant vid, I had a viper that just shit the bed, Vortex ,as usual, is replacing it, no questions with a defender as the no longer have the Viper,venom. Can't wait to put it on my Prodigy, after getting a new mounting plate ofcourse
Thanks hrfunk. I like the up/down button setup on this optic, versus the two side-by-side tiny buttons typical on my Holosuns. The textured front edge and lens setback are great for folks like me who run the slide off the optic all the time and not just for 1-handed manipulations. It's really easy to smudge the front lens on optics with a proud or flush lens. You can still see the dot through smudges, but a clean sight picture is a sight picture free of distraction. The lack of indexing clicks on the windage/elevation adjusters might make zeroing very slow going for first-time users, with a lot of back and forth on each adjustment. I'd bet you sorted it with no difficulty, though. The more pistol RDSs one zeroes the more one gets a sense of how much movement is needed.
I think that’s true for optics use in general. I use a mathematical formula for zeroing my optics, and I’m usually on by two or three rounds (depending upon several variables). When there’s no calculable click values (1 MOA, .5 MOA, etc), I can’t use the formula. That’s kind of annoying. I had the defender zeroed in about 7 or 8 rounds, but there was still more trial and error than I care for.
@@hrfunk Thank you. I've only had to do index-free dialing/adjusting on the very first scope I had as a kid, way back when. I remember a lot of back and forth until I figured out how much dial turn equaled how much reticle movement. It was some sort of basic 4x scope, which I'd mounted on a Crosman 760 air rifle. And you're right, same process with RDS or scopes generally. It does seem a bit easier on scopes since it's turning a knob, vs turning a tiny screw on an RDS. Turning a tiny screw and counting parts of revolutions without a click index is, for me, a bit tougher than figuring out how much I've turned a knob, where I can use a clockface index.
At 77 in June, MY issue (not a “universal truth”) is iron sights are better for ME to ranges approximating 15 yards, but red dots are preferable at 20 yards and beyond. However, I am sure those numbers will further degrade with time. Since I believe my likely, lawful defensive scenarios won’t exceed 10 or 12 yards, for now I’ll remain in the iron sight brigade. In addition, it seems likely that the reliability, durability, size, functionality and cost of red dots will decline, as competition and production rates increase; therefore, I suspect that around 2025, I’ll switch to them.
For me, I think part of the issue comes down to a desire to maintain accuracy in my shooting at greater distances. Perhaps, that's not as critical for me now as it was in the past, but I'm not yet ready to let go of it.
Good morning HR. Nice review, looks like a good red dot from Vortex. That shim plate could be useful on other sights if it's available separately. Nice that they include the cover, I had to get one separately for my Holosun 507.
Looks like Vortex has done many things right with the Defender - big improvement over the Viper and Venom optics. However, a 14-hour auto-off is excessive, considering it has a motion sensor for instant on. BTW, I appreciate that you used the terms "dominant" and "non-dominant" hand, rather than "strong hand" and "weak hand" that so many others use.
Sounds like a nice budget friendly optic. My only gripe is the 14 hour run time. If it has shake awake technology, I wonder why Vortex decided to go with 14 hours.
I just picked one up i wanted the 6 MOA but all they had was the 3 MOA after using it i really like the 3 MOA and i really like the big window i can find the red dot a lot easier then other red dots its a keeper for me on my Ruger Max 9 the VIP warranty and Vortex reputation was a plus for buying the only thing i dont like about the optic is the 14 hour dot staying on before it goes into sleep mode but the battery compartment is on the top so its very easy to change out when needed.
Vortex makes good optics and I have the Sparc & Sparc II red dots on rifles. While they lack the later refinements such as motion detection on, they are quite capable. The one criticism I would have with the Vortex Defender is the 14 hour auto-off function. That's much too long and I prefer the 10 minutes that my Holosun red dots offer. I look forward to your range videos. I just checked the Vortex website and they show the Defender with a MSRP of $349.99.
@@hrfunk Sir, you are correct. Optics Planet has them at $249 and with your discount code it's even better. Thank you. I also think a programmable power down function would be nice. Why Vortex chose 14 hours mystifies me.
I'm admittedly a fan of Vortex optics, even though I don't currently have one in my collection. I'm hoping to acquire a new scope from them later this year for a particular rifle I'm rebuilding. If EDC was a thing where I am, I'd definitely be giving this one a long, hard look.
Hmmm The new Taurus 856 Defender Toro has issues with some dot Optics not having enough adjustability to actually zero I suspect we'll see more and more dots coming from the factory with those little 1° adapter plates
I used to use a Vortex Venom but the battery life was about three months. It was demoted to my Ruger Mk IV where it does provide better service. I am sceptical that the Defender will be much better. I hope it does. I do like my Vortex rifle optics. On a related topic one of my optic mounting screws on my Shield Plus sheared off. I wonder if anybody else has experienced that. I have heard about mounting screws failing on 10mm but I am surprised that happened with a 9mm
I had a previous Vortex red dot that I was very unimpressed with. This one, on the other hand, I like (so far). I’ll have to let you know about the battery life.
I guess it makes perfect sense, but I had never consciously realized that an MOA was 1/60th of 1 degree. Goes to show that sometimes you don't even know what you don't know!
Nice looking little sight. More competition in the market is always a good thing. I’m starting to get better with pistol dots and actually shot a faster time in the last Steel Challenge with the Sig/Delta Point combo than I did with my Beretta 92FS. I’m a long way from carrying a dot pistol, but competing with it is giving me enough incentive to actually want to play with one. Great video as always!
Another great review 👏 my girsan Mc1911 uses the "doctor" footprint. Do you know If this vortex will fit that footprint. The red dot it came with isn't the best quality.
@hrfunk definitely will. Whenever I do a trigger job on a 1911 I always tap around the gun with a dead blow hammer safety off. Just those few light taps made the red dot it came with completely off to the left🤣🤣
@hrfunk what I figured. I really want a holosun but they don't make an optic that will fit my footprint. Guy on the forums had a cnc machine shop make a plate but was $200 to have the plate made.
@@richardwilliams9815 You can get Docter to HS 507/ RMR pattern plates. The pattern Springfield uses for its XDM optics-ready pistols is Docter, and the Springfield Hex & Dragonfly optics use the same pattern as Docter. So at a minimum, the Springfield plate for Holosun 507 / Trijicon RMR pattern would work. I've got a 507 Holosun on a Springfield XDM using the Springfield plate, and I seem to recall having a few commercial options for the same pattern plate. If you search the internet you should find a few machine shops selling Docter to RMR pattern plates.
I always was a fan of the 'shake awake' feature until I've seen how it is often implemented. If the motion sensor breaks from recoil, the connection to the led is also lost and that's it for the rds. No motion sensor, one failure point avoided. Though vortex has good service record and unlimited lifetime guarantee. I wonder if that's world wide (probably not possible by jurisdiction).
@@hrfunkwearing safety glasses, then safety glasses with cheaters incorporated, have become prescription transition/progressive everyday wear now. I remain grateful.
"Unlimited warranty" That worrys me, makes me think QC issues are standard for this 250$ dot. I know a guy on youtube who went thru 3 Strike Eagles for his suppressed R700 and THAT led to a rolloercoaster of scope brands who've all obviously suffered from having to use cheaper materials during covid just to meet their supply and demand quota. Wasn't just Vortex. Dude settled on a Leupold begrudgingly.
I’ve looked at these a lot. Problem is battery life. I hear people getting 3 months out of a battery. Why they did their “shake awake” to turn off after 14 hours is crazy. Basically means it never goes off. If they would have at least done 1 hour it could have saved some batteries at night. Was really holding for more out of it.
The battery on mine has lasted since I produced this video 5 or 6 months ago. Then again, I don’t use the pistol/sight all that much. It would have been nice if they had made the sight programmable so the user could set the duration for the sight to sleep.
I heard the dots can actually disappear in the lower third of the glass. Did you detect this problem or can you mimic it? It’s what’s keeping me from buying it.
@@hrfunk if you have an enclosed emitter it's much easier to clean, and stops any debris from negatively impacting your red dot and significantly easier to see the red dot. I tried Holosun 507K and 507c and noticed how easily the open emitter got debris inside and negatively impacted the red dot but when I tried out the EPS and 509T, how much easier it was to clean and also see and acquire the red dot.
14 hour run time is a deal breaker with a shake to wake optic. Makes no sense, they should make it 10 minutes and gain a lot of battery. The way it is now if you use your firearm at all it will never shut off.
@@hrfunk The pulsing of the dot is noticeable, more so on low settings. A lower refresh rate may be used to achieve less battery usage of a smaller battery or can also used to adjust brightness. watch?v=IRExMI2YAnA&t=220
This optic has the worst parallax of any reddot I have ever used. Absolutely terrible. I don’t get why most reviews never speak of this. I bought mine based on semi decent reviews but this one does not get a pass after using it.
8 months ago I bought the Hellcat Pro. After some shopping around and videos like this, decided my first pistol-mounted red dot will be a Vortex Defender. For last several years had Red and green dots mounted on all 5 of my long guns.
I have installed a few of those and I like them. You get a Pic Rail mounting base; ability to fit regular size and micro guns, and best of all, labelled mounting hardware kits for use on all popular guns.
And the price is right, too!
Hopefully you get a longer lifespan outta the Vortex then I did my Viridian RFX 35 and Primary Arms RS-10. Both failed in the 750-1000 rounds ballpark. Love that SF, looking to add that model to my Canik family.
I’ll have to let you know. Mine only has about 50 rounds on it right now.
Thanks HR, I like vortex optics a lot. I have two vortex scopes on two of my hunting rifles and also my binoculars I use for hunting are vortex……all have worked extremely well for me.
Just had this installed yesterday. Can’t wait to try it out. Great video!
Thank you!
Thank you, Howard, this was a good video and I rather like the Defender.
For $250, it's a pretty good optic.
excellant vid, I had a viper that just shit the bed, Vortex ,as usual, is replacing it, no questions with a defender as the no longer have the Viper,venom. Can't wait to put it on my Prodigy, after getting a new mounting plate ofcourse
Thanks hrfunk. I like the up/down button setup on this optic, versus the two side-by-side tiny buttons typical on my Holosuns.
The textured front edge and lens setback are great for folks like me who run the slide off the optic all the time and not just for 1-handed manipulations. It's really easy to smudge the front lens on optics with a proud or flush lens. You can still see the dot through smudges, but a clean sight picture is a sight picture free of distraction.
The lack of indexing clicks on the windage/elevation adjusters might make zeroing very slow going for first-time users, with a lot of back and forth on each adjustment. I'd bet you sorted it with no difficulty, though. The more pistol RDSs one zeroes the more one gets a sense of how much movement is needed.
I think that’s true for optics use in general. I use a mathematical formula for zeroing my optics, and I’m usually on by two or three rounds (depending upon several variables). When there’s no calculable click values (1 MOA, .5 MOA, etc), I can’t use the formula. That’s kind of annoying. I had the defender zeroed in about 7 or 8 rounds, but there was still more trial and error than I care for.
@@hrfunk Thank you. I've only had to do index-free dialing/adjusting on the very first scope I had as a kid, way back when. I remember a lot of back and forth until I figured out how much dial turn equaled how much reticle movement. It was some sort of basic 4x scope, which I'd mounted on a Crosman 760 air rifle.
And you're right, same process with RDS or scopes generally. It does seem a bit easier on scopes since it's turning a knob, vs turning a tiny screw on an RDS. Turning a tiny screw and counting parts of revolutions without a click index is, for me, a bit tougher than figuring out how much I've turned a knob, where I can use a clockface index.
At 77 in June, MY issue (not a “universal truth”) is iron sights are better for ME to ranges approximating 15 yards, but red dots are preferable at 20 yards and beyond. However, I am sure those numbers will further degrade with time. Since I believe my likely, lawful defensive scenarios won’t exceed 10 or 12 yards, for now I’ll remain in the iron sight brigade. In addition, it seems likely that the reliability, durability, size, functionality and cost of red dots will decline, as competition and production rates increase; therefore, I suspect that around 2025, I’ll switch to them.
For me, I think part of the issue comes down to a desire to maintain accuracy in my shooting at greater distances. Perhaps, that's not as critical for me now as it was in the past, but I'm not yet ready to let go of it.
Why not have both? Use the irons at short distances and the dot when there is little light or if it's a bit further out.
Thanks for the nice review. It looks like an interesting red dot. I wonder how the 6 MOA version compares to red dots with the circle and the dot?
I'm not sure. I can say the 3 MOA version seems to work pretty well.
Good morning HR. Nice review, looks like a good red dot from Vortex. That shim plate could be useful on other sights if it's available separately. Nice that they include the cover, I had to get one separately for my Holosun 507.
Thanks John. So far, I'm pretty favorably impressed with this sight. I might try to shoot a little more with it today.
Looks like Vortex has done many things right with the Defender - big improvement over the Viper and Venom optics. However, a 14-hour auto-off is excessive, considering it has a motion sensor for instant on. BTW, I appreciate that you used the terms "dominant" and "non-dominant" hand, rather than "strong hand" and "weak hand" that so many others use.
Thanks. I prefer that terminology too.
Sounds like a nice budget friendly optic. My only gripe is the 14 hour run time. If it has shake awake technology, I wonder why Vortex decided to go with 14 hours.
I don’t know.
I just picked one up i wanted the 6 MOA but all they had was the 3 MOA after using it i really like the 3 MOA and i really like the big window i can find the red dot a lot easier then other red dots its a keeper for me on my Ruger Max 9 the VIP warranty and Vortex reputation was a plus for buying the only thing i dont like about the optic is the 14 hour dot staying on before it goes into sleep mode but the battery compartment is on the top so its very easy to change out when needed.
I don’t use mine a lot, but when I do, it’s been a good sight. I’m glad you like yours too.
Great review HR! Thanks! Enjoyed it?
Thank You for your Honest Review(s) and critical analysis while not being critical of the subject. Question: Does it fit the Hellcat?
I believe it does. Unfortunately, my Hellcat is not an optics ready version. So, I cannot test it to find out for certain.
Vortex makes good optics and I have the Sparc & Sparc II red dots on rifles. While they lack the later refinements such as motion detection on, they are quite capable. The one criticism I would have with the Vortex Defender is the 14 hour auto-off function. That's much too long and I prefer the 10 minutes that my Holosun red dots offer. I look forward to your range videos. I just checked the Vortex website and they show the Defender with a MSRP of $349.99.
Check the price on Optics Planet.I would have liked a programmable auto-power down to allow users to set it wherever they like.
@@hrfunk Sir, you are correct. Optics Planet has them at $249 and with your discount code it's even better. Thank you. I also think a programmable power down function would be nice. Why Vortex chose 14 hours mystifies me.
I'm admittedly a fan of Vortex optics, even though I don't currently have one in my collection. I'm hoping to acquire a new scope from them later this year for a particular rifle I'm rebuilding. If EDC was a thing where I am, I'd definitely be giving this one a long, hard look.
Hmmm
The new Taurus 856 Defender Toro has issues with some dot Optics not having enough adjustability to actually zero
I suspect we'll see more and more dots coming from the factory with those little 1° adapter plates
I used to use a Vortex Venom but the battery life was about three months. It was demoted to my Ruger Mk IV where it does provide better service. I am sceptical that the Defender will be much better. I hope it does. I do like my Vortex rifle optics.
On a related topic one of my optic mounting screws on my Shield Plus sheared off. I wonder if anybody else has experienced that. I have heard about mounting screws failing on 10mm but I am surprised that happened with a 9mm
I had a previous Vortex red dot that I was very unimpressed with. This one, on the other hand, I like (so far). I’ll have to let you know about the battery life.
I guess it makes perfect sense, but I had never consciously realized that an MOA was 1/60th of 1 degree. Goes to show that sometimes you don't even know what you don't know!
Glad i found your channel, nice video
Thank you! I am glad you found it too.
Nice looking little sight. More competition in the market is always a good thing. I’m starting to get better with pistol dots and actually shot a faster time in the last Steel Challenge with the Sig/Delta Point combo than I did with my Beretta 92FS. I’m a long way from carrying a dot pistol, but competing with it is giving me enough incentive to actually want to play with one. Great video as always!
I think I’m getting better with them too. This one combined with the Mete pistol seems to work very well for me.
Another great review 👏 my girsan Mc1911 uses the "doctor" footprint. Do you know If this vortex will fit that footprint. The red dot it came with isn't the best quality.
I'm sorry. I don't know. If you contact Vortex, they might be able to provide an answer.
@hrfunk definitely will. Whenever I do a trigger job on a 1911 I always tap around the gun with a dead blow hammer safety off. Just those few light taps made the red dot it came with completely off to the left🤣🤣
@@richardwilliams9815 That's too bad. I can't imaging it would have withstood recoil for long.
@hrfunk what I figured. I really want a holosun but they don't make an optic that will fit my footprint. Guy on the forums had a cnc machine shop make a plate but was $200 to have the plate made.
@@richardwilliams9815 You can get Docter to HS 507/ RMR pattern plates. The pattern Springfield uses for its XDM optics-ready pistols is Docter, and the Springfield Hex & Dragonfly optics use the same pattern as Docter. So at a minimum, the Springfield plate for Holosun 507 / Trijicon RMR pattern would work. I've got a 507 Holosun on a Springfield XDM using the Springfield plate, and I seem to recall having a few commercial options for the same pattern plate.
If you search the internet you should find a few machine shops selling Docter to RMR pattern plates.
Vortex is full of nice surprises! 👍
I always was a fan of the 'shake awake' feature until I've seen how it is often implemented. If the motion sensor breaks from recoil, the connection to the led is also lost and that's it for the rds. No motion sensor, one failure point avoided. Though vortex has good service record and unlimited lifetime guarantee. I wonder if that's world wide (probably not possible by jurisdiction).
I don’t know. That is probably a question for their customer service.
I’ll watch this video for educational purposes and out of respect to your hardwork HR, but steel sites for this jarhead.
I still prefer them too, but these days my eyes don't like them as much as they used to.
@@hrfunkwearing safety glasses, then safety glasses with cheaters incorporated, have become prescription transition/progressive everyday wear now. I remain grateful.
Why limit your capability
@@valqueenofValhalla if it can fail, get in my way, or slow me down, I’ve already lived without.
Looks good and not likely to snag, nice sight picture, fairly compact.
Thx for the review 👍 🎯 I'm still weighing RDS 🤔 carry on 🔫 🇺🇲
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for great video.
"Unlimited warranty" That worrys me, makes me think QC issues are standard for this 250$ dot. I know a guy on youtube who went thru 3 Strike Eagles for his suppressed R700 and THAT led to a rolloercoaster of scope brands who've all obviously suffered from having to use cheaper materials during covid just to meet their supply and demand quota. Wasn't just Vortex. Dude settled on a Leupold begrudgingly.
DO YOU PREFER RED OR GREEN DOT AND WHAT MOA?
I really don't have a color preference. So far, I like the 3 MOA.
I’ve looked at these a lot. Problem is battery life. I hear people getting 3 months out of a battery. Why they did their “shake awake” to turn off after 14 hours is crazy. Basically means it never goes off. If they would have at least done 1 hour it could have saved some batteries at night. Was really holding for more out of it.
The battery on mine has lasted since I produced this video 5 or 6 months ago. Then again, I don’t use the pistol/sight all that much. It would have been nice if they had made the sight programmable so the user could set the duration for the sight to sleep.
I heard the dots can actually disappear in the lower third of the glass. Did you detect this problem or can you mimic it? It’s what’s keeping me from buying it.
I haven't noticed that while actually using the pistol/sight. I would have to pull it out of the safe to see if it occurs when not shooting.
Always get an enclosed emitter.
Why?
@@hrfunk if you have an enclosed emitter it's much easier to clean, and stops any debris from negatively impacting your red dot and significantly easier to see the red dot.
I tried Holosun 507K and 507c and noticed how easily the open emitter got debris inside and negatively impacted the red dot but when I tried out the EPS and 509T, how much easier it was to clean and also see and acquire the red dot.
I’ve been using the open emitter versions for years without a problem.
@@hrfunk well, we conceal carry everyday and for those who has open emitters they have many issues as previously mentioned.
Does your optic have any refresh rate problems? I've heard that the dot has some flickering problems.
None that I can detect.
Can the scope be mounted on a Tarsus 99
Only if it has an optics mounting platform.
Never understood why it has a 14 hour timer. Should have been 3 hour max
I’m not sure why they didn’t make it programmable for different durations.
14 hour run time is a deal breaker with a shake to wake optic. Makes no sense, they should make it 10 minutes and gain a lot of battery. The way it is now if you use your firearm at all it will never shut off.
I’m not sure what they were thinking with that.
I'm not buying one until Vortex fixes the crappy refresh rate.
What's wrong with it? I didn't notice any issues with the one I am using.
@@hrfunk Hoplopfheil has a video on the optic where he shows this problem.
@@hrfunk
The pulsing of the dot is noticeable, more so on low settings. A lower refresh rate may be used to achieve less battery usage of a smaller battery or can also used to adjust brightness.
watch?v=IRExMI2YAnA&t=220
Thanks. All I can say is I didn’t notice any issues with the sight in the video. Maybe my eyes aren’t sophisticated enough to detect that problem.
It’s a non issue on mine
🙂👍
This optic has the worst parallax of any reddot I have ever used. Absolutely terrible. I don’t get why most reviews never speak of this. I bought mine based on semi decent reviews but this one does not get a pass after using it.
I can’t speak for anyone else who reviewed it, but I never noticed that issue with mine. It’s been a good optic for me.