Great to see these two pros just sit and chat . Answer questions from viewers. Such history. First time we have seen Ivan relaxed and laughing so comfortably with a peer. Let's have another round ,gentlemen. Thank you.!
Ivan! Please make “A conversation with Michael” an ongoing series for your podcasts. 🙏🙏🙏 this is the pinnacle or shall we say the deepest levels of the Rabbit Hole 😎
I had to go back many times to some parts of this video to review and process information. There is a lot of relevant information here. Best podcast ever.
Real dog people that are so gifted thank you guys so much for sharing your nuggets of golden wisdom on free platforms so that it’s accessible to everyone
This right here is the podcast you watch 3 or 4 times. Two great minds, what sets these guys apart….the way they think the way they understand dogs thank you for sharing all this knowledge and insight ❤
Such a powerful podcast. I beg you to please keep doing these podcasts so aspiring dog trainers have a high-quality, ehical source of material to access in order to hone their craft.
My Gandhi in dog behavior, Michael Ellis, just gets better and better. Feel privileged to have interacted and learned in person at his training facility in Fairfield. Thank you for being out there for responsible dog owners. 🙏🙏🙏
Excellent talk 100% agree with the medication approach you guys have for dogs. Natural healthy mind is the way to go. Respect to your contributions to the dog training and dogs’ welfare particularly for the REAL dogs……
It’s truly a reflex. The same way we lean around corners for balance. Once we have reflexively responded then conscious control steps in. To an extent this can be reprogrammed. This is how leash pressure can be leveraged to ultimately provide a men’s of motivation or guidance.
There is a clear difference to restraint vs opposition reflex. We may learn to accede or intensify in opposition to a restraint, and this again will be contextual.
Interesting and grateful as always for your time. Comment/question on the blue belt bit (around 2:10:00) I started with a blue belt trainer and now have a black belt trainer who is, like you say, busy and therefore conducts, quite rightly a respectable fee and I see him once a month but I think the blue belt trainers have their place. Usually more blue belt trainers available, more local, you can train more, you can learn from your own critical reflection on how you partook in the session even if that particular trainer isn't a full 100% match to your objectives- still better than rolling around with another white belt? thoughts? I actually still train with my blue belt trainer- I get a lot out of training together. Thank you both!
Perhaps you missed the whole point of the analogy, which is that a blue belt who is *pretending they know as much as higher belts are *extremely dangerous for the future of a student who has high goals.
Look up Hyperkenesis, this is actual dog ADHD. It can be diagnosed; it is apparently super rare. In other words, most of the time there is much hope that the dog can indeed be trained.
So true about genetics and play! My greyhound puppy loves to hide in the bushes, stalk the toy and then come flying out to pounce on it! He tugs up close too but he doesn't get as excited if he doesn't get to chase it.
Excellent conversation! I have a question. Do you think a dog can ever know they HAVE to do something or do you think they do the thing purely because they have a history of repetition in the behaviour that works for them so they are motivated to do that and not something else. Whether it has been reinforced with punishment - they do it because the alternative is not so nice - or they do it because they really want to. I prefer to train my dog to really want to do the thing. Having said that, I have recalled my dog where she thinks of coming near but not close enough, but comes if I use a more assertive serious voice (NOT angry).
I am once again late to this, but I get the barking (less so the whining) with an activity. My malinois does this with the start of a bikejor, but this is seeming to be over the top excitement. Rather that focus on the bark I just ensured she is aware that she has to wait until I am ready to go as well ("hike" in her case). When she didn't wait she had to come back for me with my bike in tow. I think it is the opportunity for the full out run that builds the excitement. I am not sure if this was the right move with her, but I am fortunate to have a very patient dog.
Okay, random thought about the idea of it being a reward to avoid a punishment. For humans, say you play a video game, and you fail because there was a trap on the level and you hit the trap. When you play again and learn to avoid the trap successfully, and you get the win, of course you feel a rush of satisfaction and success. Successfully navigating a previous failure point is what makes many games fun, and addicting. Not only that, but a human will remember each time they play that game, that they are successfully avoiding the trap that used to get them. Are dogs that different? This is the scenario that the conversation reminded me of.
Can the owner do it? That's the key. How much instruction did you provide for the owner, after you trained the dog? Or is the dog right back to where they were or worse after you left?
Regarding the personal vs impersonal consequences and the notion that dogs would “dislike” an owner or handler because they set a limit or gave a correction: Let’s not forget that dogs and packs are naturally/genetically built to give, and to take consequences - whether negative or positive - as communication in order to keep order and clarity in the lives of the dogs in the pack. Or the mother dog disciplining her puppies as they become boisterous 7 week old pups. Corrections are not taken personally at all, and they are not dealt out with hate or vehemence. It’s just to make a point. They can be best friends the next minute. Let’s also not forget how in school, we loved the professor or parent who was able to teach us in a great way, but also set limits/give negative consequences with clarity and finality (but without vehemence or guilt). We didn’t dislike the prof or parent; we understood and just tried harder to get it right next time, and respected the prof more. 👍
I think the food question was more about ditching the bowl (i.e. Using their meals to only do training) versus allowing them to eat out of the dish. Maybe not. Kind of hard to believe purposefully not feeding them.
For me Ivan, Michael Ellis and bart bellon are the top of the mountain I'd love to see bart bellon sit down with these 2 legends, barts style is much more cold then Ivan and Michael but very effective and the nepopo has become a bit of a cult it's self
The adhd question is awesome. I have have a hypothesis that Dog trainers probably all have adhd/ on the spectrum. Id say the same about dogs themselves. What spectrum are they on? trainers focus on the details most humans neglect but are important to the animals. trying to resonate with the animal on the frequency they are producing. which is different than having a screw loose or mental disorder. the process of diagnosis and treatment is horrible with humans. its better we don't associate those words with dogs in my opinion.
But if you only feed for work, you feed the same amount as usual, it's just that it is pieced out. Starve only one day so it works right away. Then straight back to 4 cups of food or whatever the dog would require for the day. NO difference in food intake, it's just spread out during the training for whatever reason the owner needs a behavior modification from the dog. Then the dog can also play better once he finds out that he is getting MORE freedom - for example, to be able to run free in the woods simply because he can be trusted to come back when called.
Why would people miss this podcast? This is the pinnacle of dog training
sadly most dog owners don't know that dog training exists!
Great to see these two pros just sit and chat . Answer questions from viewers. Such history. First time we have seen Ivan relaxed and laughing so comfortably with a peer. Let's have another round ,gentlemen. Thank you.!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wow. Great treat for us viewers when these two great trainers having another chat again.
Would not matter how long the video would be, i would listen to the entire thing still regardless 😁 these videos are gold! 😁
Ivan! Please make “A conversation with Michael” an ongoing series for your podcasts. 🙏🙏🙏 this is the pinnacle or shall we say the deepest levels of the Rabbit Hole 😎
I had to go back many times to some parts of this video to review and process information. There is a lot of relevant information here. Best podcast ever.
@@modelonulo thank you
Oh I’m saving this for my day off, very excited
Real dog people that are so gifted thank you guys so much for sharing your nuggets of golden wisdom on free platforms so that it’s accessible to everyone
oh men! sitting and having a good conversation about dogs and training. that's good!
best podcast ever
This right here is the podcast you watch 3 or 4 times. Two great minds, what sets these guys apart….the way they think the way they understand dogs thank you for sharing all this knowledge and insight ❤
Thank you both and host! (two of my fave trainers)Very awesome chat!
Such a powerful podcast. I beg you to please keep doing these podcasts so aspiring dog trainers have a high-quality, ehical source of material to access in order to hone their craft.
Always a must watch/listen thanks!!
Awesome
What a privilege to listen to these two dog people at the top of their field.
Never thought there would be a second round so soon!!! Awesome
Just started this up, last one was great.
This was one of the best podcasts I have seen. Such great insight and information. Thank you 🙏🏻 keep this type of content coming!
❤ loved this 🙏 could listen all day
You two are both brilliant and I just loved see and listening to you together. Thank you!
There was so much information in this! Amazing and thank you tons!
Excellent discussion! Thank you for giving your time!
Amaaazinggg! Thank you
Loved this thanks guy's!
My Gandhi in dog behavior, Michael Ellis, just gets better and better. Feel privileged to have interacted and learned in person at his training facility in Fairfield. Thank you for being out there for responsible dog owners. 🙏🙏🙏
So awesome!
Love this! Need lots more of this in depth content.
Good stuff Mike/Ivan. Miss you guys!
Excellent talk 100% agree with the medication approach you guys have for dogs. Natural healthy mind is the way to go. Respect to your contributions to the dog training and dogs’ welfare particularly for the REAL dogs……
Great chat!!!! Thanks to all...;-)
How'd I miss this (and your seminars in Harvard, MA)? OH YES; working and the birth of my son.
😊 love this Ivan! Keep up the great work!
2 Legends of dog training......
I need to watch this 10 times.
one of my favorite videos ive watched. great job do it again!
Haha Cameron Ford as the “Host” amazing, he is an amazing trainer
It’s truly a reflex. The same way we lean around corners for balance. Once we have reflexively responded then conscious control steps in. To an extent this can be reprogrammed. This is how leash pressure can be leveraged to ultimately provide a men’s of motivation or guidance.
There is a clear difference to restraint vs opposition reflex. We may learn to accede or intensify in opposition to a restraint, and this again will be contextual.
The "leash seminar" sounds really interesting. I hope you guys really do that.
Interesting and grateful as always for your time. Comment/question on the blue belt bit (around 2:10:00) I started with a blue belt trainer and now have a black belt trainer who is, like you say, busy and therefore conducts, quite rightly a respectable fee and I see him once a month but I think the blue belt trainers have their place. Usually more blue belt trainers available, more local, you can train more, you can learn from your own critical reflection on how you partook in the session even if that particular trainer isn't a full 100% match to your objectives- still better than rolling around with another white belt? thoughts? I actually still train with my blue belt trainer- I get a lot out of training together. Thank you both!
Perhaps you missed the whole point of the analogy, which is that a blue belt who is *pretending they know as much as higher belts are *extremely dangerous for the future of a student who has high goals.
@@IvanBalabanov Thank you- yes perhaps I did miss your meaning. Thank you for the clarification.
Look up Hyperkenesis, this is actual dog ADHD. It can be diagnosed; it is apparently super rare. In other words, most of the time there is much hope that the dog can indeed be trained.
Two, and the one in the background, the BEST!!
Nice room, very eye catching, nicely decorated. :)
Loved the Scent work conversation.
I came to hear Ellis and Ivan and I get the moderator flapping his gums.😂
@@armandhammer2235have a point. It wasn’t supposed to be
@@IvanBalabanovI went back. It's better later. Thanks.
So true about genetics and play! My greyhound puppy loves to hide in the bushes, stalk the toy and then come flying out to pounce on it! He tugs up close too but he doesn't get as excited if he doesn't get to chase it.
Excellent conversation! I have a question. Do you think a dog can ever know they HAVE to do something or do you think they do the thing purely because they have a history of repetition in the behaviour that works for them so they are motivated to do that and not something else. Whether it has been reinforced with punishment - they do it because the alternative is not so nice - or they do it because they really want to. I prefer to train my dog to really want to do the thing. Having said that, I have recalled my dog where she thinks of coming near but not close enough, but comes if I use a more assertive serious voice (NOT angry).
I am once again late to this, but I get the barking (less so the whining) with an activity. My malinois does this with the start of a bikejor, but this is seeming to be over the top excitement. Rather that focus on the bark I just ensured she is aware that she has to wait until I am ready to go as well ("hike" in her case). When she didn't wait she had to come back for me with my bike in tow. I think it is the opportunity for the full out run that builds the excitement. I am not sure if this was the right move with her, but I am fortunate to have a very patient dog.
Okay, random thought about the idea of it being a reward to avoid a punishment. For humans, say you play a video game, and you fail because there was a trap on the level and you hit the trap. When you play again and learn to avoid the trap successfully, and you get the win, of course you feel a rush of satisfaction and success. Successfully navigating a previous failure point is what makes many games fun, and addicting. Not only that, but a human will remember each time they play that game, that they are successfully avoiding the trap that used to get them. Are dogs that different? This is the scenario that the conversation reminded me of.
Can the owner do it? That's the key. How much instruction did you provide for the owner, after you trained the dog? Or is the dog right back to where they were or worse after you left?
There's such a strong message in the last 10 minutes. But if you only watch the last 10, you missed the message.
Ivan, step away from the wine, lol 😆
Regarding the personal vs impersonal consequences and the notion that dogs would “dislike” an owner or handler because they set a limit or gave a correction:
Let’s not forget that dogs and packs are naturally/genetically built to give, and to take consequences - whether negative or positive - as communication in order to keep order and clarity in the lives of the dogs in the pack. Or the mother dog disciplining her puppies as they become boisterous 7 week old pups. Corrections are not taken personally at all, and they are not dealt out with hate or vehemence. It’s just to make a point.
They can be best friends the next minute.
Let’s also not forget how in school, we loved the professor or parent who was able to teach us in a great way, but also set limits/give negative consequences with clarity and finality (but without vehemence or guilt).
We didn’t dislike the prof or parent; we understood and just tried harder to get it right next time, and respected the prof more. 👍
Wooow 😊.
I think the food question was more about ditching the bowl (i.e. Using their meals to only do training) versus allowing them to eat out of the dish. Maybe not. Kind of hard to believe purposefully not feeding them.
For me Ivan, Michael Ellis and bart bellon are the top of the mountain
I'd love to see bart bellon sit down with these 2 legends, barts style is much more cold then Ivan and Michael but very effective and the nepopo has become a bit of a cult it's self
two of the best trainers alive...bother wearing Crocs🤔🤔🤔
**rushes out to immediately buy a pair of Crocs
Michael watched me for 10 minutes as I crashed and burned at the last MRI trial😂😂😂😂 he did say we are entertaining
What? Two icons of dog training
👍
I'm Training for free for the love of the art and to gain experience something for nothing makes everyone happy,
The adhd question is awesome. I have have a hypothesis that Dog trainers probably all have adhd/ on the spectrum. Id say the same about dogs themselves. What spectrum are they on? trainers focus on the details most humans neglect but are important to the animals. trying to resonate with the animal on the frequency they are producing. which is different than having a screw loose or mental disorder. the process of diagnosis and treatment is horrible with humans. its better we don't associate those words with dogs in my opinion.
10:58 isn't this just part of negative reinforcement?
?😊❤❤😊❤😊😊😊
Re: selective breeding. Consider that the “average” horse could not compete in the Kentucky Derby.
Thank fucking god
Fantastic guests but the questions are absolutely stupid. Nonsense questions. Why didn't you just let them converse?
They chose the questions from their Social media feeds. I did as they requested and recorded the event and read the questions they picked.
But if you only feed for work, you feed the same amount as usual, it's just that it is pieced out. Starve only one day so it works right away. Then straight back to 4 cups of food or whatever the dog would require for the day. NO difference in food intake, it's just spread out during the training for whatever reason the owner needs a behavior modification from the dog. Then the dog can also play better once he finds out that he is getting MORE freedom - for example, to be able to run free in the woods simply because he can be trusted to come back when called.
01:00 MAGIC!!!!" Do I keep looking him in the eyes or Do I get prepared to catch the ball"?
👁️🥎?