I mean discounting what comes from the EW alliance raids, Crystal Tower is really fucking relevant to 14s story, and Ivalice is one of the longest side stories in the game because of the inclusion if Bozja. Maybe not 14 original, but they are hardly irrelevant lorewise like Neir is.
@@Enderlinkpawnu Meanwhile, Shadows of Mhach/Sky Pirates gave us lore on an Ancient Civilization that was NOT Allag for once as well as insight into Voidsent.
One of the headcanons I have for why Eden Titan has a car phase is that during that conversation with Ryne about "Okay, tell me all about Titan!" the WoL mentions "Well, he hit like a truck" and Ryne, who's taking notes furiously jots down "...has a truck"
Ok, I love this idea. but explain sexy Ramuh? Because that side eye from Thancred and Urianger at WoLD made me wonder if s/he started embellishing a weeee bit. Or has some...interesting tastes lmao
@@lathyrusloon One of the mechanics in Ramuh Ex is that he puts a 60 second Seduce on party members. I don't know why they chose that particular stun to be Seduce, but the base is there.
Fun fact: Those flying white things at the portal raid Garrett refers to as sting rays were thought to be birds by the majority. And then it was revealed that the main antagonist is Mitron, the aquatic expert in the Convocation of 14. So those were actually some kind of a fish (I think the artbook has some info on those) and kudos to Garrett for looking at it and not thinking it was a bird.
A big part of the side conversations in Elpis are how everyone is taken by the idea of making things fly and putting wings on everything, especially fish. Which is a funny call back
Kyle's editor's aside really hit the right detail. You gotta remember that the sundered Ascians were people at one point that the paragons had to dig up. Gaia is her own person, she just happened to have the soul of someone important. It doesn't make her that person but the link is there. It goes to show you how strongly Mitron felt because he basically raised up Gaia to Ascian status by pure willpower.
This also basically tells us how all the Sundered Ascians work. If something happens to a Sundered Ascian like what Ardbert did to Logrif and Mitron, the Unsudered Ascians will just go looking for another Shard of the original Convocation member to replace them. Hell, Logrif and Mitron even mention that they've likely ALREADY been replaced by the time of the Eden Raids. Any of those nameless Ascians you have fought in the past (or that Baelsar and Thancred claim to have fought and beaten) could have been their replacements. Odds are the Mitron and Gaia you met in the Eden Raids aren't even the same shards as the Mitron and Logrif that Emet-Selch tasked with making Darkness dominant on the Thirteenth. Meanwhile, as denigrating as Mitron is about the Sundered Worlds, I very much get the impression that he doesn't give two shits about Zodiark. Or at the very least, Zodiark is very much a lower priority for him than getting his girlfriend back. Add Fandaniel to the mix who every much has no interest in rejoining Zodiark at all, and I very much get the impression that these guys only went along with the whole Rejoining thing because the Unsundered Ascians told them to. The Sundered obeyed only because the Unsundered were much more powerful than them and straying from the party line means being killed and replaced with another shard. And that puts Ellidibus' statement that the Sundered Ascians by themselves couldn't hope to pull of the Rejoining... because Ellidibus knows damn well many if not all of the Sundered Ascians don't care about Rejoining the Shards to the Source. Nabriales of course was a full supporter of the Rejoining. Or only said he was (Ascians are all theater kids seems like), It could well be that Nabrales was just virtue signaling, ie saying all the "Right Things" just so the Unsundered don't punish him for being less than enthusiastic about the Rejoining. How would the Unsundered know? Keep in mind that they all have the Echo and can thus see past events without having to be present at the time they happened.
Yeah, he nailed it. The sundered souls go into the life stream, then eventually pop back out into a new person that could be anyone. The first's lifestream is tiny since most of it was crystallized by the wave of light just like the planet so her 100 year turnaround may be normal or she may have come back before and died again between the flood and the present.
@@noppornwongrassamee8941 Keep in mind that only the red masked Ascians are previous members of the Convocation. Black Masked Ascians (which are most likely the ones Thancred beat during the early parts of 5.3) are replaceable minions as far as I am aware.
@@TheIvoryDingo I think it's fairly possible that all the black masks are also probably specifically former sundered individuals (not to say Convocation members of course) while not every person in the present day may be what is essentially a former individual reincarnated It wouldn't surprise me if some people who awoke to the Echo and were granted the blessing of light from Hydaelyn (not necessarily Warriors of Light) even turned around later after being approached directly by Ascians and joined the ranks for the black masked Ascians. I guess sort of like Unukalhai to Elidibus except perhaps followers of a different Overlord
@@NajaSide That's my theory too. I think anyone with the Echo is a reincarnation of a soul that lived before the Sundering, while those without the Echo are individuals who were born out of the lifestream after the Sundering. The red masks would be reincarnations of the Convocation specifically (although as Emet-Selch hints, perhaps not always), while the black-masked would be those with the Echo, but not members of the convocation. Emet-Selch's ability to see the colour of souls would allow him to find those convocation members. Not sure if he would also be needed to find people with the Echo, or if they have some cult ritual where the final step is basically "die", and only those with the Echo would survive as incorporeal immortal Ascians.
Something you might have missed: During the shiva fight, Ryne switch between a Ice form (looking like shiva) and a light form. The light form is similar to the painting of Hydaelynn that Emet showed you in qitana ravel
Not only that, she does a sundering kick from the painting to kick off her phase transition where you are forced to protect mini Mothercystals and stop a second flood of light.
It's never fully explained explicitly, but the difference between Nabriales being just defeated by the WoL in ARR 2.5 (in immediately reviving himself) and Loghrif being killed by Ardbert in the past (and being sent to the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream and reincarnated as a mortal nearly a century later) isn't because Nabriales faced us initially in a physical body of flesh but rather because Nabriales' soul was still able to retreat to The Rift (i.e. the purple spooky Ascian-space with the Zodiark statue we've seen the red-mask Asians have their meetings in and where Elidibus tried to banish the WoL to in the Seat of Sacrifice trial fight) and bounce back nearly instantaneously, while Loghrif (for whatever reason, maybe where Ardbert fought Mitron and Loghrif cut them off from accessing The Rift) was unable to have her soul retreat to The Rift and instead perished in a more conventional manner, with her soul being sent to the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream to be eventually reincarnated like a normal mortal soul. If you guys ever finish Eureka in your spare time, there is some side-lore that states that Krile's grandfather Galuf Baldesion and his allies were able to achieve a similar victory against another sunderred-Ascian called Emmerololth (back when the Isle of Val suddenly disappeared), where Emmerololth got defeated in a manner where she wasn't able to retreat to The Rift to revive instantaneously and instead got sent to the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream upon their death. Also while Gaia could potentially traverse The Rift to travel to The Source and different shards (aside from the 13th/World of Darkness) she would have to give up her current physical body like Emet-Selch, other Ascians, and Ardbert and the WoDs had to do in the past. Which Gaia isn't likely in any hurry to do soon.
Also, the entire point of us using White Auricite to defeat the Ascians is specifically to trap their soul here and _prevent_ them from retreating to the Rift, so we can overwhelm and destroy their souls (well, "destroy" in the sense of breaking the bond of that soul with reality and sending it to the Lifestream) with a flood of aether.
Eden raids: Raid set 1: Interesting premise, tying into 'how are we dealing with the rest of the problems going on in the world?' and hints at future story Raid set 2: yeah yeah there's magic stuff but right now we're having too much fun watching the party daughter awkwardly ask out a goth because turns out she's into that Raid set 3: ...wait the villain want's to break up the party daughter's first awkward teenage relationship? HE MUST DIE.
In terms of Mitron/Gaia: Kyle basically has the right of it: Shards are born and raised to an Ascian. 5.3 pointed out the crystals used to elevate the souls of the Convocation and that its done by the unsundered. So you kill the body of a Sundered Ascian, the soul is freed from the body. Depending on how heavy the blow, the soul is sent back to the Lifestream, to be reborn. Once reborn, they can be re-elevated to Ascian status by an Unsundered (at least until 5.3) As to why Mitron warped and didnt Nabriales, my theory has been: Ardbert is a WoL shard, but only a single one from the First. The WoL killing Nabriales/Emet is 8/14ths and 9/14ths respectively due to rejoinings. Therefore, it makes sense the WoL is hitting a LOT harder with the Blade of Light than Ardbert.
Generally when you kill Ascien, their soul escapes to the void. White auracite can prevent this by trapping the soul long enough to give the killing blow. Mitron was warped because his world was being tipped towards light, considering the Asceins plan was to have Ardbert tip it, he and his crew must have been building up the light and struck him so powerfully it killed Logrif without them have it a chance to escape and twisting Mitron. Ardent was a giant walking light bomb that got set off early.
@@siyreanthis has since been confirmed by the Encyclopedia Eorzea III! Ardbert’s Axe of Light was way stronger than it should have been because of the realm’s imbalance towards Light. Loghrif took the brunt of it and died, but Mitron was warped by the light and influenced by Ardbert’s desire to “destroy all darkness.”
I also want to say, while there are a lot of Easter Eggs for FF8 in the Eden series, the vast majority of them are contextualized into the FF14 story, and I think this is where FF14 shines. Where the names or visuals of things may be easter eggs, but also fit the narrative they are in, or at least don't muddy the waters. Doesn't matter that the final shot of Eden is an almost 1 for 1 of the FF8 flower scene, it's by itself a gorgeous and beautiful transition, fitting the narrative perfectly, AND also is a wonderful homage to another game. FF14 has been described as a love letter to the franchise, and we see that love performed and expressed exquisitely in these moments.
A bit fun fact (and spoilers for FFVIII): Eden is based on FFVIII and the big bad there is Ultimecia, or her Japanese spelling is “Arutemishia”. And guess what, Artemis is “Arutemisu” in Japanese spelling A really cool way to tie things up that may not be as apparent to English players since Ultimecia and Artemis have very different spellings
@@chriskarpetas Deeper than that, the entirety of the Eden's Promise tier is a recreation of the final boss sequence of FFVIII. E9 is phase 1 (the sorceress), E10 is phase 2 (the beast, Griever), E11 is phase 3 (the junctioned boss), E12 is phase 4 (Ultimecia's more complete fusioned form), and E12S is the final phase (Ultimecia's final form).
How many Minfilias existed before Ryne broke the cycle? Assuming 100 years, average age of death being 18, dying in battle? At least 6. Maybe more, if they died before they could pick up a blade. Ran'jit could easily have watched anywhere from 3 to 6 of those girls die before Ryne. No wonder he was so broken.
That's possible but it's more likely that souls aren't rapidly reborn upon death. Considering the lifestream exists and the rate of death to birth is never one to one, most likely there is something akin to a queue, and that the freshly dead may be in transit for quite a while before finding a new body to inhabit. Such that Gaia is likely the first incarnation of Lohgrif since her passing 100ish years ago. And Minfilia is a bad (but understandable) comparison because that wasn't her going through the process of rebirth, it was the passing of a vessel (and it's host soul) and transference to a new one. The only reason her new vessel had to grow up and be retrained is because Minfilia refused to compromise their autonomy any further. Had she been so compelled she may have been able to forcibly shape her hosts in the same fashion ascians can. But that last part isn't certain as her nature might have only appeared similar to an ascian, it needn't necessarily have the same properties.
I don't think it's been officially stated but from what we've seen souls kinda chill or gestate in the lifestream until they are reborn as a new life and this time can vary.
Or she just didn't reincarnate immediately? Like... For all souls there is a time that they spend in the aetherial sea. Our enemies aren't reborn instantly.
@@ericbright1742 The general agreement is around 6 because Minfilia is willfully reincarnating herself, then awakening as herself within the new reincarnations. The new girls are reincarnations of her but much like with the ascians they are unique individuals and personalities who get replaced when their past life awakens within them.
My headcanon on the titan car is its fused with the 2nd boss of the gymlit dark in our head, since that boss's thing was basically digging, and it kinda has the same mechanical parts as eden titan. for the cloud of darkness, since she is scatatch sized and we see a lot of void ark visuals in her fight i can only presume our warrior mixed the cloud with scatatch
My theory as to what happened is this: Beating an Ascian normally just pops their soul out of their body. They retreat to the Abyss and then return to possess another. This is part of the 'elevation' that the Unsundered can impart to them upon raising them to their former office. Hitting them with a Blade of Light CAN be fatal... but only if they take the hit. With Lahabrea, he bailed back to the Abyss after the first hit popped him out of Thancred. The function of the White Auracite is to 'pin' the Ascian soul to force them to take the hit (Nabriales and Igeyorhm). Emet-Selch broke free of the Auracite, but rather than dodge he tried to overpower the Warrior of Light, and thus took the full force of all of the Lightwarden light to the face. With Mitron and Loghrif, I suspect they couldn't dodge in time (Given Ardbert's Blade of Light was more powerful, being empowered by FIVE Warriors of Light). Loghrif took the hit to protect Mitron and was destroyed and re-entered the pool of reincarnation, where Mitron survived but his body was warped into Eden, trapping him.
1:50 LOL! I have learned over two decades ago to only really engage in meaningful discussion about a mainline FF game with its respective fans. What a FF game should be literally changes from person to person and even then that person's definition might change with each passing day. This discourse existed SINCE FINAL FANTASY 2. *2!!!* My heart goes out to you guys, you can't escape that whole shit show since you're putting your videos out there for the world to see. Good luck, brothers.
E12 has the most triumphant music transition i find in all of the non-MSQ content. The raid series as a whole really shows off how powerful ff8's motifs were, even if ff8 isnt my favorite game.
In the ARR power point that Minfilia and Urianger give as for the need for White Auracite, they talk about how Ascians will escape their bodies into the rift when they are defeated. The White Auracite traps them long enough to hit them with enough aether to disperse their aether, effectively killing them and their aether is returned to the Aetheral Sea. However, we see that in Heavensward with GigaPope, he just blasts Lahabrea with enough aether from Nidhogg's eye to straight up kill him before he can escape after we weaken him with our fight. Similar to Emet with the Axe of Light that was formed from all the Lightwardens. So with Gaia, she was straight killed by Ardbert and crew's Blade of Light and returned to the Aetheral Sea to be reborn but Mitron was corrupted by it. Basically they blew away half of Ascian Prime and the other half was infected by the light and became Eden. At least that's how I interpreted it.
Minor correction: King Thordan ate Lahabrea's soul, because he's a primal and primals consume aether. So its true that he didn't trap him in auracite, but he did prevent his escape in a different way.
@@ZedPower Well sure, but I saw it as he killed him and as his aether dispersed he absorbed it before it could flow back into the aetheral sea. Basically he had to pop the water balloon of his corporeal form to absorb his aether.
man, i am so, *so* glad you loved eden so much!! it's still probably my favorite raid series to date (still chewing on the EW one mentally but i think eden still wins out). the fights, the music, the story--all of it is just *chefs kiss* to go a bit deeper on the references aspect of the raids...as a fan of FF8 (there are dozens of us!), i knew i was probably always going to love eden at least on a surface level. but i was honestly so pleased that the team working on this took parts of 8 and made them work with a story they wanted to tell using 14's lore and characters! i think any time 14 takes a reference to the other games in the series and makes it important for a reason unique to 14's world (like crystal tower and alexander), it is infinitely better than simply going "hey, want to fight a train?". don't get me wrong, i love the train fight! but eden feels like way more than just the devs going "hey, remember FF8? the game with the gunblade?", and as a fan of *both* it makes me happy. it feels less like a moment where people who didn't play certain FF games are left out--it feels like they told a really cool story and for people who *know* the references, there's just a little bit more there as a cherry on top. seeing garrett go "i didn't play that FF game" in past videos when talking about such references really reminded me that some of these references are still so well done and not just shoe-horned in, so it doesn't feel like something is flying over your head. i am so, so glad eden was so well told even outside of the pieces from FF8 that it uses.
Nabrieles didn’t rez himself so much as he just pulled himself back together. He was still the same shard that was found by the Unsundered at some point. That’s we needed to trap him in White Auracite or some other containment method such as the Crystal Tower or Ascalon. Gaia on the other hand, as the Loghriff that helped bring about the flood had that soul fragment destroyed and returned to the aethereal sea (they don’t really explain how the First’s WoL did this). That destroyed fragment will eventually be reborn. Our Gaia is another fragment of Loghriff that was born naturally on the first. Perhaps the same fragment as the one that was destroyed, perhaps not. The main difference is that Loghriff as seemingly killed properly which means another shard needed to be found and ascended using the memory crystals, while Nabrieles wasn’t properly killed the first time and therefore he just rebuilt his form using creation magic. After Nabrieles is properly dealt with due to Moenbryda’s sacrifice, he like Gaia would need to have another shard of him found an ascended.
they do actually explain how the firsts wol did kill them, they were stronger in the light than out wol not to mention there were 5 of them, so much so that they used enough to warp a being of darkness into a being of pure light
@@GamestMesa Oh, I got that. I’m more talking about the fact that Loghriff didn’t just mutate as well or reform instantly like other Ascians when not trapped somehow, but I guess you could argue that since Mitron held the light, and 5 WoL are pretty strong, that fragment of Gaia was just completely overwhelmed.
32:34 essentially what happened to Gaia was, she properly died, returned to the aetherial sea and eventually reincarnated. The Ascians need a certain level power remaining to allow them to cheat death and the manner she died left her too weak to employ her trick.
So regarding the "Ascian death" talk without any spoilers: Ascians can either be killed temporarily or permanently. Temporary=Current body destroyed but can respawn quickly. See: Lahabrea end of 2.0, Nabriales first death, Emet getting shot by Varis etc. Permanently=Killed in a way that completely obliterates them and their soul cannot manifest itself again and is instead sent into the Aetherial Sea to be properly reborn. See: Every Ascian that we've defeated completely. I don't think it's ever fully specified but I think when Ardbert defeated the Ascian Prime of Mitron and Loghriff it was Loghriff that has taken the blunt of the attack and died permanently to be reborn, while the rest of the attack couldn't fully finish off Mitron but instead warped him into a sin eater.
I love how this raid makes it canon that our WoL has brain damage because some of those summon memories were... ooh boy. Also regarding tie-ins, both Alexander and Omega were literally the key to unlocking time travel in Shadowbringers.
He doesn't have brain damage , he doesn't know how to summon properly when he's not using his later cheat code. Summoning things take a lot of mental power and practise something we haven't done nearly enough by that point.
Actually the reason the primals we summon aren't accurate portrayals is tackled in a few places, but most potently from our time exploring Amaurot. As speculated before fighting Emet-Selch, summoning as we've known it stems from the ancient's creation magics. And in our interactions with them in Amaurot we learn that even for them it takes careful focus and control as even errant thoughts can alter the final product, sometimes drastically. We have absolutely no practice at this, are working with other amateurs, utilizing a poorly understood living machine. That we achieved the approximations we did is genuinely miraculous lol.
thats fitting given what our earlier primal-based egi creations were a Summoner until we get them proper in EW (right after Eden no less). that and the WoL is hinted to have a certain degree of trauma as well as memory issues, possibly from concussions... and aforementioned trauma
@@tenjenkspoilers for endwalker . . . . . . . . . . the fact the wol is so good at it kind of, to me, alludes to/foreshadows our connection to azem and to the world unsundered. we end up fully utilizing *actual creation magics* (not our star summoning) to open the path to meteion by summoning the elpis flowers. granted, emet and hythlos souls help, but all they really can do is provide their aether. the technique is the same as summoning a primal; but we're arguably the first person to ever do it post sundering without the use of additional crystals and extra wills (ysayle as shiva is closeish but she still required the belief in her from the heretics)
This raid and 5.3 are the main reasons I tried out FFXIV for the first time! They are sooo good! I remember seeing the FFXIV tweet out about Ryne and Gaia holding hands in the art and thinking it was so cute! Ryne and Gaia is one of my favorite relationships in the game and I hope we get to see them again! 🥺
LMAO Same! Gaia has Daria voice in my head too. I'm the oldest in my FC at 37. No one knows what I'm talking about when I said this to them. Poor kids will never understand lol
Ryne is the Oracle of Light, channeling the Light on a world that was 99% Light, further empowered by Eden itself, the first Sin Eater and then further buffed by Mitron's Ascion power. I don't think Ryne could have pulled all that off on any of the other reflections/source, or if the First hadn't been in its flooded stated.
To be fair, the true "power" of the Warrior of Light is really hard to gauge. There aren't a lot of devastating hits we have canonically taken. Most of the devastating hits that would reduce us to the consistency of chunky salsa we either dodge, deflect, find some way to evade, or have to burn a limit break to endure. Probably our biggest feats so far are: blocking the Susano sword, tanking that shot before the 5.3 trial, and the LB4 from the same trial we had to LB3 in response to. The game shows us our greatest power is that classic anime trope of tilting your head to the side and having the strike ruffle your hair as it blows past you. Time and again, it also shows if a shot actually lands, it _hurts._
@@ericbright1742 That's what I love about FF14, honestly. It's all very BYOB (or "Bring Your Own Backstory"), and perhaps the only reason they're the "best of the best" is because they're willing to fight like no one fights and help others like no one helps. They're powerful not because they're unbreakable, but because they're still good no matter how many times they break. The world needs more stories like that. :D
They should just make raids mandatory at this point IMO Future MSQ instalments would benefit greatly from being able to draw on them as more than just passing remarks.
Especially since people REALLY want to see Gaia in the MSQ, what with her being tied into the restoration of the First so heavily and the youth festival they keep mentioning at the end of Eden and on other occasions
ryne and gaia being (imo, at least) canon makes more sense when you think about how, in general, the romances in ff14 dont generally take a front stage/are that "explicit", even when theyre obviously intended by the devs. like, the only explicit couples i can think of are ones who are already married (ie the chais). even runar and yshtola are left vague, even though the intent is obviously that runar is in love with yshtola (and maybe reciprocated). given that the ff8 scene in question that the end of eden mirrors is an explicitly romantic scene between the male and female leads of that game, i feel pretty confident in saying ryne and gaia are, canonically speaking, romantically involved. i would say it goes beyond "fan reading" and into "dev intended to be romantic". if one of them was a man, i doubt there would be *anyone ever* saying they just seem them as friends. as a gay person myself, eden being so a. important b. beautifully written as a love story between two girls is a huge reason i have such an affinity for this game (and hope to see more lgbtq characters in the future!)
yeah this really doesn't feel like "we want to keep it vague because gay", romance is not like super front and center in the game in general and even with the implied straight pairings it is still very vague so it's more "this is just how the game handles romance"
Until the devs say something is "canon" its left up in the air like their discussions on Venat and Zenos, this so people can headcanon anything not explicit which mainly comes down to romantic interest as to not piss anyone off. So until devs say the relationship is canon we have the "roomates" memes so people can headcanon shit like polyamory or whatever else they want to self insert their WoLs into.
@@kinkarcana1293 i just want to say that "nothing is canon unless the devs say it is outside of the game" is the most insane opinion you could possibly have on media i think. like this is genuinely so funny and an insane amount of gymnastics to do to reject the fact that these two girls are, in fact, romantically interested in each other, because it is so completely obvious from the text. your reading comprehension skills must be killer
@@kinkarcana1293 nobody is headcanoning anything with ryne and gaia btw because theyre teenagers and the wol has been shown to be old enough to drink and order alcohol at a bar so.
@deepseametro what are you talking about? Teens play this game as well and its a fantasy world where kids can ostensibly drink at any age. Stop forcing you headcanon on others.
Ryne wasn't just Shiva when she kicked our ass she was also channelling "Hydaelin" with the Light aspect in the fight as well. Represented by her outfit matching the mural, the 'Stomp' and the mini-Mothercrystals.
Eden isn't just themed on references to FFVIII, but also Illusion of Gaia. The overall story arc is identical and that final shot of Eden, all lush and green with the big tree in the back, is literally the box art for IoG.
funny trivia about the voidwalker, the artist who designed it said they thought they were designing a mount at first, so the monster part of the model was more horizontal like a plane, but then when he realized it was supposed to be a boss they adapted it to be like how it is now!
also Ryne chose to try Shiva because light and ice are related alignments with powers over stasis, she thought she could relate to Shiva's story too but it over whelmed her. Her other forms in that fight are her idea of Hydaelyn too from the cave drawings. She gets more outfits in the higher difficulty version
im so glad i stumbled upon this video when looking for ppl discussing the eden raids because i really love them. and ive now caught up on your guys playthrough from arr to ew and its just been so great to listen to you both talk about the story, characters, game etc. thank you. o7
Sadly. We are to the point now where two people can’t just be friends any longer. Omg two people are hanging out, they must be Fing! Let’s ignore the story and symbolism the game is presenting and just head cannon the shit out of it.
@@rllove016148 I agree. Both my wife and I went through Eden and neither of us came out of the other end thinking they were a romantic couple. My wife even went back and rewatched some of the cutscenes afterwards and was like "This isn't how two women interact with each other that are romantically inclined." Also Ryne is very much underage and Gaia is not, so if people really wanna go that direction, that opens up a lot of cans of worms both implications about the writer and how people are looking at it.
@@rllove016148 That does seem like what you're about, yes. Do pay a bit more attention to the symbolism in the future. Ideally quietly, and out of sight.
@@EternaltheGrey Sorry no can do. Also, the symbolism there was as I already interpreted. Nothing was there to imply or support yours and anyone elses head canon.
The Eden raids are indeed great. From the WoL conjuring some pretty wild Primal designs to confronting the Ascian that Emet mentioned during his speech in Mount Gulg, not to mention the amount of FFVIII references - if you told me that this could've easily been a part of the MSQ I would have no doubt believe that it is true. The one for one shot of the FFVIII ending with Ryne finding Gaia is still one of my favorite moments in the game.
Great Video as always. All the Eden aside, the trend of greek god names for the convocation (Hades, Artemis, Gaia), and greek names in general (Hythlodaeus), the community at this point started pondering, if Azem is our title, what is our unsundered's original name. So, knowing your own Warriors of Lights, Tuna and Val, what would your unsundered names be?
I believe the official explanation to the titan car is "Kobolds and Goblins are pretty similar, right?" You can hear the connection best by comparing the Goblins "Metal" theme from Alexander and Titan's theme.
did anyone ever tell you guys how big Coffee Biscuits were? it was the big thing to craft for money via crafting levequests so you could grind out the "honest gillionaire" achievement/title, something about all the ingredients being easy? they nerfed it near the end of post-shadowbringers, and they nerfed it to give 1337 gil instead of whatever it was
The items for the coffee biscuits were three readily gatherable items (upland wheat -> flour at lv 71, garden beets -> sugar at lv 73, coffee beans at lv 78) in relatively small quantities that could be crafted with very quick macros and low-investment gear; I never actually did it but I did have some friends who did it religiously.
Coffee biscuit spam was how I got my Honest Gillionaire achievement. It was very easy to gather the ingredients casually via retainer, which I think was key.
I'm really surprised neither of you mentioned that in the end Eden became a tree. I've always thought it was a nice capstone to the inspiration they pulled from.
Fun note about the Cloud of Darkness design thing. The Crystal tower Cloud of Darkness is designed as she appeared in the original Final Fantasy 3 game, while the Eden raid version is designed as she appeared in the arena crossover fighting games, Dissidia. The Eden version even has a number of attacks that pull from her moveset in Dissidia that weren't in FF3.
Gaia's character designer is Tetsuya Nomura, which Garret maybe know as the Kingdom Hearts' director and character designer, also character deigner of FF10, and lots of other FF characters
I could see how the Shiva fight may have ended the WoL. She’s basically a manifestation of the power hydaelen used to give you your power to stave off corruption. If there would be a power to overpower the warrior of light, would it not say… be an excess of light? The very thing that made them strong in the first place. I hope we get more fights that push the WoL to their canonical edge like this.
They don't bring it up, but an interesting motive for needing ice would be to make it rain. Even with clouds, it won't rain until a warm front hits a cold front.
*Scene recreates 1:1 an important FF8 between Squall and Rinoa* *A version of whats basically Squall and Rinoa's love theme plays in the scene* *They are brought back to a field of flowers in front of the gayest crystal ever deviced* "Ryne and Gaia sure are good friends"
The last fight of Eden's Promise made me cry. It was an incredibly heart breaking experience to go through, and it still makes me emotional running that fight. Part of it is the loss of identity that Gaia is experiencing with the destruction of her memories and part of it is the desperation that Ryne feels trying to save this person, who may be the third most important person in her life -- even more so than you are, from self-destruction, identity loss, and removal of empathy. Ryne's desperation, Gaia's desperation in not wanting to lose her memories, and our desperation in trying to keep them safe just significantly amped the emotions of this fight. Kudos to the storywriters, the translation team, and the combat design team. If any of these elements had been any less contributing to the story, tone, and impact of the dungeon, the emotional response wouldn't have been quite so cathartic.
Actualy, Ryne was shiva AND HYDELIN during that fight, most people don't notice but when she goes from armor to the veil, that's changing from shiva to hydelin, iirc her enrage is the severing blow that split the source
Someone may have told you guys this already, but the multi-breast thing on E12 is actually likely a reference to classical depictions of Artemis of Ephesus, the Anatolian goddess later co-opted into the Greek goddess Artemis, in sculpture--if you look up Artemis of Ephesus statues you'll see the resemblance. This obviously ties in with Mitron's true name, but also with Eden's whole FF8 theming in general, as the last boss of FF8, Ultimecia, is transliterated as アルティミシア in katakana, phonetically identical to how you would spell Artemisia, the queen of Halicarnassus named for Artemis, which arguably may have been the original intent prior to localization. Ultimecia's boss theme, The Extreme, even plays in the savage-only second phase of E12. It's a neat little art history nod in the boss's design.
Eden took note of everything that worked in Previous Raid Naratives, like the ones you mention, like crystal towers too in my opinion, and really stuck the landing. It's not perfect, and i do have a lot of minor and not so minor complaints. But i still loved it. And i genuinely feel So Bad for anyone who didn't do the Eden raids along side Shadowbringer.
The Cloud of Darkness was specifically modeled after one of the base versions of Dissidia's take on it. The minion you get for the Cloud from World of Darkness had also referenced this model despite the boss being based more on the FF3 version. After the time I put into Dissidia, I was pretty happy to see it get a cameo.
In regard to Gaia being young, what I can tell is that sundered Ascians have 'normal' lifespans. If they realize their power, they can better control body-hopping or retaining memories if they do become reborn. Unsundered seem to not have issues with this, though they may need to body hop as the need be. Whatever the explanation, Gaia seems to have always had trouble retaining her original memories with every reincarnation, even when the other ascians downloaded them for her.
Someone may have already mentioned this, but after completing Eden be sure to visit the room at the top floor of the Catenaries (the apartments to the left of the Pendants).
About coffee biscuit, I don't know if dev pull that up as a reference to what player did back in ShB or it's just coincident. For those who didn't played or reached ShB at that time, coffee biscuit leve quest was very popular back then, due to relatively easy to get material and it's an x3 leve quest. Each week people can make money from it atleast 1-1.5 m from an hour or so of crafting. It kinda get meme'd on about who's keep eating coffee biscuit or how much coffee biscuit is in Crystarium's storage. (It was nerfted in 6.0 by reduce reward for every x3 leve quest to 1/3)
So as I understand it, Asians work like this. The Ascians we met before Gaia were all disembodied spiirts/souls, kinda like how the Scions were on the First. Sometimes they'll inhabit a host body like Lahabrea did with Thancred and Ellidibus did with Arrbert's old body. Killing Ascians the normal way - aka breaking their body - doesn't kill the Ascian per se, it just evicts them from their body (or it sometimes doesn't, see Ellidibus in Zenos' body). An Ascian evicted in this way can retreat to some shadow realm (which is NOT the realm of death) from which they can return to the regular living world any time they want. We get to see the Shadow Realm when Ellidibus tries to trap us there during his Trial. To properly kill an Ascian, you have to do it one of two ways. Either hit them with overwhelming amounts of aether, or drain them dry of aether (as with Primals and the Crystal Tower). The White Auracite as explained when it's introduced is just there to hold the Ascian soul in place long enough to do either one, ie, preventing them from retreating to the Shadow Realm. And even then, properly killing an Ascian just sends them into the reincarnation cycle as seen with Gaia and Emet's cameo during the Ellidibus fight. Although it's never explained in so many words, I THINK the reason Ascians don't properly die when disembodied is because their souls are still holding on to loads of aether which fuels their ability to remain among the living. Both methods of properly killing an Asian deprives them of the extra aether, either by shattering their hold on it via the "hit them with loads of aether" method, or straight up depriving them of it using the "drain them of aether" method. But how does the first method work you ask? Shouldn't hitting an Ascians with lots of aether replenish their supply? Well think of it like this: Humans need water to live. To make sure you stay alive, you carry a jug of water with you wherever you go. If I hit you with say...a jet of water from a fire hose powerful enough to knock you over, how well do you think you can hang on to that jug? Same deal with Ascians and aether; either the Ascian's hold on their extra aether is knocked loose by the overwhelming aether, or they drain themselves dry shielding themselves from the attack. Either way, they're run out of the aether they're using to prevent themselves from dying. PS: As I understand it, Ascians travel across worlds in soul only. Someone like Emet-Selch only looks the same as he did on the Source, because he found a body on the First to inhabit and rehaped it (clothing included) to look like his body on the Source. If Gaia were to travel to the Source or other Shards using Ascian methods, she'd have to leave her corporeal body behind. Ardbert and company used the same methods, and their physical appearance on the Source worked in the same way as the Scions physically appearing in the First; they were disembodied souls only despite acting like they had corporeal bodies. Gra'ha Tia and the WoL were truly the first ones to travel between Shards with their corporeal bodies.
Yeah the game makes a joke about the WoL getting too many blows to the head, but I think the REAL reason the primals are different is because Eden/Mitron's power is all about corrupting memories! The game never outright says it, but that's what I put together.
The discussion between Urianger and Ryne was different in the context they were using tho. In that as the oracle of darkness, they felt that while it was unlikely the girl was an Ascian (having shown no signs of being one), she could be a servant of Zodiark. The emet bit was more of a dramatic personality reference
Also, randomly, one thing I don't think came across too well in the dialogue for the Shiva fight, but I believe part of the reason Ryne felt the need to *become* Shiva was because of how we described meeting Ysayle and how she became Shiva. And as Ysayle's misconceptions about Shiva colored her interpretation of the primal, Ryne's misconceptions of Shiva - and the relation between ice and light - did the same, which is why her white robes look like the cave paintings of Hydaelyn.
The Eden Storyline was truly what opened my eyes to the side content being worth it’s salt. Given it was the first raid series I sunk my teeth into after doing the MSQ current, it holds a special place in my heart. I only pray Ryne and Gaia get more attention in the future.
"Ryne overpowering the WoL with the power of Shiva". Not just Shiva. Ice + Light. She spends the fight alternating between two outfits/forms. Check out her second outfit again and cross reference with a suspicious cave painting after the Qitana Ravel dungeon.
Editing is on point like always, I hope they seriously make these quests mandatory since we may be seeing gaia in the msq sooner than later. Fingers crossed they give this raid the crystal tower treatment *edit* gaia being in msq speculation is not a spoiler btw! I just want her in msq lol one can only hope
Great video, as always! Will look forward to you guys revisiting these topics once you are current. In the meantime, thanks again for wonderful Wednesday!
I lost my mind about the Eden raid when we learned that the reason the flood came about wasn't just that the WoLs defeated an ascian...it was because of Ardbert's burning desire to bring about a victory for light. And his will in that moment was literally impressed upon Mitron to the point that he was filled with light and twisted physically, much like someone who is overexposed to A PRIMAL'S INFLUENCE, TEMPERED but it was a super powered speed run. Lost. My. Mind. Because if Ardbert can do it, so can we.
Glad to see you enjoy Eden! I've seen the story be pretty divisive. There was a group that dismissed it as too fluffy or felt like it was too juvenile since it was about teen girls. I thought it was nice character development and conclusion to Ryne's arc in the expansion.
So, here's the thing about the memory stuff. We have good evidence that _other_ beings have summoned primals in ways that look NOTHING like the original inspiration. Specifically, we've seen an image (a poster) of what Bahamut originally looked like, a poster that shows all of the members of the First Brood. He had completely different horns, and _golden_ scales, and FEATHERS, and while he was definitely meatier than his siblings, he was still a noodle. So if his mate, who summoned Elder Primal Bahamut _specifically_ because she wants vengeance for his death...and yet he looks so severely different. Summoning is an inherently imprecise art and results in products that don't match up with the memories you draw upon.
@@Amovetv which fountain? It's been awhile since I did E12S- I only know about the bull testes thing because I needed something to lookup while we wiped.
I mean, Gaia could've been just the latest rebirth of the soul that was Loghrif, either it took her 100-ish years to be reborn or she's been reborn several times and only this time she got into contact with Mitron as the latter got more of himself back, it's hard to tell exactly what Arbert and co used to completely kill Loghrif as the Ascian she was back then though. Nabriales was only defeated first and came back at once, maybe all Ascians got some kind of anchor that keeps them connected to the rift and keeps them around even when they're defeated, or they just escape shortly before the real killing blow like a kind of... soul dodge🤔, Nabriales only stopped coming back after he was killed properly while stuck in the white auracite.
Crystal Tower was a mostly unimportant side story itself and took 3 expansions later to feel important. Other 8 and 24 man raids could definitely still become more significant in future MSQ or raids.
This is my take on the situatio; I think the warping of Mitron happened because they didnt have white auricite, causing the light axe actually reaspected and essentially tempered mitron instantly, warping him into eden the first sineater, essential a light aspected voidsent made from an entity with the power of creation, even if a fraction. Whne minfillia came and stopped the flood it brought a bit of darkness back to the world, rebalancing it slightly and awakening mitron's mind. During this tine Gaia was being stuck in a cycle of reincarnation. When we came, every little thing we did added more darkness, waking mitron up more. When we defeated Eden prime he had gained the strength to override and puppet Gaia, when we summoned a primal of darkness, there was enough of a balance to fully awaken him.
In the scene where Mitron talks to Logrif in the past, Mitron implies (from what I understand) that Logrif, as the Oracle of Darkness, was meant to be Zodiark's Heart, but something happened to her. She might have died in the Final Days or from something else, and Elidibus was chosen as the next best candidate.
My theory isn't that our memory is bad, but that we can't help but think alsp of 'similar' encounters as we think of these primals. Like how Ramuh is an amalgamation of Ramuh, Ranjit, and Ixion. Those were all powerful, lightning-weilding encounters. So I think Wden grabs not just the one thing we're trying to think of, but surrounding, related memories too.
Ascians dont "die" unless you trap them with auracite and hit them with a blade of light. When they DO die they're not 'destroyed', their soul just goes to the lifestream where they're dead like anyone else who dies. Any soul in the lifestream can end up being reborn.
i highly recommend going into the savage version e12 when you get the chance! it's considered noncanon, but you get some really cool what ifs to sit upon and ponder as well as, in my opinion, one of the most enjoyable savage fights i've ever done. shits full of mechanics that are incredibly satisfying to pull off correctly! also recommend going into the savage of e8 as well, if you want some Extra Shiva Food as well as some mechanics that will truly make you want to bash your head into a wall (in a good way).
All of the 12 part full-party & alliance raids are arguably important to the overarching story. ALL OF THEM. If yall didn't do the Omega raids, you're missing out for Endwalker.
I kinda hope if/when they make Eden mandatory and we see Ryne and Gaia in the MSQ Ryne will have discovered that she retained the ability to transform into Shiva if provided with enough aether. Big Endwalker spoiler (it's been out for a while at time of writing but still) but we found out that Zenos was able to transform into Shinryu after merging with it in the past. I know the circumstances aren't EXACTLY the same but following the same sort of logic Ryne should be able to do the same with Shiva, right? Except have her retain control and make it like a cool gunbreaker Shiva or something.
For those that didn't play FF VIII, some of the major themes of FF VIII are memories and... love. FF VIII was, I believe, the first one that had a love song with vocals in the soundtrack (Does the FF VI Opera count?). I do wish they would be BRAVE and hard confirm the Ryne/Gaia relationship, but considering all the references there really is no question in my mind how the writers and devs intended us to read into their dynamic. Giant rainbow pride crystal or no.
Also in regards to Cloud of Darkness - the entire original crystal tower raid is an homage to FF3. I didn't play it (maybe I will someday), but my understanding is Cloud of Darkness was the final boss of FF3 and her concept art looks more like this version, though her in game sprite in FF3 more resembled the crystal tower boss (though realistically, if you could look behind the, well, cloud... I am sure the rest of her model would resemble this anyway). The crystal tower, Xande, Doga, Unei and a bunch of the bosses and trash were all in FF3.
Came for the coffee biscuits. Stayed for the rainbow crystal.
Same.
This is perfect. Yuri forever.
filling the First with gay-aspected aether
Head Canon everywhere!!! It's like the Zombie Apocalypse. There's no escape!
"Alliance raids don't matter, they're made up." Let's remember this one.
"How about I write an epilogue to an entirely different story?"
~ Yoko Taro, Probably?
I’ve been biting my tongue for f-ing months just so I don’t say something that spoils what’s to come in Endwalker for them
I mean discounting what comes from the EW alliance raids, Crystal Tower is really fucking relevant to 14s story, and Ivalice is one of the longest side stories in the game because of the inclusion if Bozja. Maybe not 14 original, but they are hardly irrelevant lorewise like Neir is.
@@Enderlinkpawnu Meanwhile, Shadows of Mhach/Sky Pirates gave us lore on an Ancient Civilization that was NOT Allag for once as well as insight into Voidsent.
It’s okay, we love seeing him eat his own words 😂
One of the headcanons I have for why Eden Titan has a car phase is that during that conversation with Ryne about "Okay, tell me all about Titan!" the WoL mentions "Well, he hit like a truck" and Ryne, who's taking notes furiously jots down "...has a truck"
Ok, I love this idea. but explain sexy Ramuh? Because that side eye from Thancred and Urianger at WoLD made me wonder if s/he started embellishing a weeee bit. Or has some...interesting tastes lmao
Instructions unclear, summoned Titan with a big dumptruck.
@@lathyrusloon One of the mechanics in Ramuh Ex is that he puts a 60 second Seduce on party members.
I don't know why they chose that particular stun to be Seduce, but the base is there.
"Watching my shy teenage daughter awkwardly try to score a date with hot goth girlfriend" the raid is mandatory story true and real.
You know that's not what the raid actually is, don't you? I mean, seriously... lmao
@@rllove016148You know that is a joke, do you? I mean, seriously... lmao
Did you just call your daughter's date hot?
Yikes
Fun fact: Those flying white things at the portal raid Garrett refers to as sting rays were thought to be birds by the majority. And then it was revealed that the main antagonist is Mitron, the aquatic expert in the Convocation of 14. So those were actually some kind of a fish (I think the artbook has some info on those) and kudos to Garrett for looking at it and not thinking it was a bird.
They look like birds initially, but if you look closely their faces are on the underside, like rays.
My first though was they look like paper shikigami, which pretty much always get used in swarms whenever they show up in anime.
@@metalsirene1 I actually thought so too. With a mixture of "maybe that's an origami" xD
A big part of the side conversations in Elpis are how everyone is taken by the idea of making things fly and putting wings on everything, especially fish. Which is a funny call back
Kyle's editor's aside really hit the right detail. You gotta remember that the sundered Ascians were people at one point that the paragons had to dig up. Gaia is her own person, she just happened to have the soul of someone important. It doesn't make her that person but the link is there. It goes to show you how strongly Mitron felt because he basically raised up Gaia to Ascian status by pure willpower.
This also basically tells us how all the Sundered Ascians work. If something happens to a Sundered Ascian like what Ardbert did to Logrif and Mitron, the Unsudered Ascians will just go looking for another Shard of the original Convocation member to replace them. Hell, Logrif and Mitron even mention that they've likely ALREADY been replaced by the time of the Eden Raids. Any of those nameless Ascians you have fought in the past (or that Baelsar and Thancred claim to have fought and beaten) could have been their replacements. Odds are the Mitron and Gaia you met in the Eden Raids aren't even the same shards as the Mitron and Logrif that Emet-Selch tasked with making Darkness dominant on the Thirteenth.
Meanwhile, as denigrating as Mitron is about the Sundered Worlds, I very much get the impression that he doesn't give two shits about Zodiark. Or at the very least, Zodiark is very much a lower priority for him than getting his girlfriend back. Add Fandaniel to the mix who every much has no interest in rejoining Zodiark at all, and I very much get the impression that these guys only went along with the whole Rejoining thing because the Unsundered Ascians told them to. The Sundered obeyed only because the Unsundered were much more powerful than them and straying from the party line means being killed and replaced with another shard. And that puts Ellidibus' statement that the Sundered Ascians by themselves couldn't hope to pull of the Rejoining... because Ellidibus knows damn well many if not all of the Sundered Ascians don't care about Rejoining the Shards to the Source. Nabriales of course was a full supporter of the Rejoining.
Or only said he was (Ascians are all theater kids seems like), It could well be that Nabrales was just virtue signaling, ie saying all the "Right Things" just so the Unsundered don't punish him for being less than enthusiastic about the Rejoining. How would the Unsundered know? Keep in mind that they all have the Echo and can thus see past events without having to be present at the time they happened.
Yeah, he nailed it. The sundered souls go into the life stream, then eventually pop back out into a new person that could be anyone. The first's lifestream is tiny since most of it was crystallized by the wave of light just like the planet so her 100 year turnaround may be normal or she may have come back before and died again between the flood and the present.
@@noppornwongrassamee8941 Keep in mind that only the red masked Ascians are previous members of the Convocation. Black Masked Ascians (which are most likely the ones Thancred beat during the early parts of 5.3) are replaceable minions as far as I am aware.
@@TheIvoryDingo I think it's fairly possible that all the black masks are also probably specifically former sundered individuals (not to say Convocation members of course) while not every person in the present day may be what is essentially a former individual reincarnated
It wouldn't surprise me if some people who awoke to the Echo and were granted the blessing of light from Hydaelyn (not necessarily Warriors of Light) even turned around later after being approached directly by Ascians and joined the ranks for the black masked Ascians. I guess sort of like Unukalhai to Elidibus except perhaps followers of a different Overlord
@@NajaSide That's my theory too. I think anyone with the Echo is a reincarnation of a soul that lived before the Sundering, while those without the Echo are individuals who were born out of the lifestream after the Sundering. The red masks would be reincarnations of the Convocation specifically (although as Emet-Selch hints, perhaps not always), while the black-masked would be those with the Echo, but not members of the convocation.
Emet-Selch's ability to see the colour of souls would allow him to find those convocation members. Not sure if he would also be needed to find people with the Echo, or if they have some cult ritual where the final step is basically "die", and only those with the Echo would survive as incorporeal immortal Ascians.
Something you might have missed: During the shiva fight, Ryne switch between a Ice form (looking like shiva) and a light form. The light form is similar to the painting of Hydaelynn that Emet showed you in qitana ravel
Just remember to look away when she's changing clothes.
Only from Ice to Light.
Light to Ice freezes the floor.
@ericbright1742 no worries, Thancred threw a flash bang.
Not only that, she does a sundering kick from the painting to kick off her phase transition where you are forced to protect mini Mothercystals and stop a second flood of light.
It's never fully explained explicitly, but the difference between Nabriales being just defeated by the WoL in ARR 2.5 (in immediately reviving himself) and Loghrif being killed by Ardbert in the past (and being sent to the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream and reincarnated as a mortal nearly a century later) isn't because Nabriales faced us initially in a physical body of flesh but rather because Nabriales' soul was still able to retreat to The Rift (i.e. the purple spooky Ascian-space with the Zodiark statue we've seen the red-mask Asians have their meetings in and where Elidibus tried to banish the WoL to in the Seat of Sacrifice trial fight) and bounce back nearly instantaneously, while Loghrif (for whatever reason, maybe where Ardbert fought Mitron and Loghrif cut them off from accessing The Rift) was unable to have her soul retreat to The Rift and instead perished in a more conventional manner, with her soul being sent to the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream to be eventually reincarnated like a normal mortal soul.
If you guys ever finish Eureka in your spare time, there is some side-lore that states that Krile's grandfather Galuf Baldesion and his allies were able to achieve a similar victory against another sunderred-Ascian called Emmerololth (back when the Isle of Val suddenly disappeared), where Emmerololth got defeated in a manner where she wasn't able to retreat to The Rift to revive instantaneously and instead got sent to the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream upon their death.
Also while Gaia could potentially traverse The Rift to travel to The Source and different shards (aside from the 13th/World of Darkness) she would have to give up her current physical body like Emet-Selch, other Ascians, and Ardbert and the WoDs had to do in the past. Which Gaia isn't likely in any hurry to do soon.
Also, the entire point of us using White Auricite to defeat the Ascians is specifically to trap their soul here and _prevent_ them from retreating to the Rift, so we can overwhelm and destroy their souls (well, "destroy" in the sense of breaking the bond of that soul with reality and sending it to the Lifestream) with a flood of aether.
Eden raids:
Raid set 1: Interesting premise, tying into 'how are we dealing with the rest of the problems going on in the world?' and hints at future story
Raid set 2: yeah yeah there's magic stuff but right now we're having too much fun watching the party daughter awkwardly ask out a goth because turns out she's into that
Raid set 3: ...wait the villain want's to break up the party daughter's first awkward teenage relationship? HE MUST DIE.
Thancred! Get the white auracite!
In terms of Mitron/Gaia:
Kyle basically has the right of it: Shards are born and raised to an Ascian. 5.3 pointed out the crystals used to elevate the souls of the Convocation and that its done by the unsundered.
So you kill the body of a Sundered Ascian, the soul is freed from the body. Depending on how heavy the blow, the soul is sent back to the Lifestream, to be reborn. Once reborn, they can be re-elevated to Ascian status by an Unsundered (at least until 5.3)
As to why Mitron warped and didnt Nabriales, my theory has been: Ardbert is a WoL shard, but only a single one from the First. The WoL killing Nabriales/Emet is 8/14ths and 9/14ths respectively due to rejoinings.
Therefore, it makes sense the WoL is hitting a LOT harder with the Blade of Light than Ardbert.
Generally when you kill Ascien, their soul escapes to the void. White auracite can prevent this by trapping the soul long enough to give the killing blow. Mitron was warped because his world was being tipped towards light, considering the Asceins plan was to have Ardbert tip it, he and his crew must have been building up the light and struck him so powerfully it killed Logrif without them have it a chance to escape and twisting Mitron. Ardent was a giant walking light bomb that got set off early.
@@siyreanthis has since been confirmed by the Encyclopedia Eorzea III! Ardbert’s Axe of Light was way stronger than it should have been because of the realm’s imbalance towards Light. Loghrif took the brunt of it and died, but Mitron was warped by the light and influenced by Ardbert’s desire to “destroy all darkness.”
I also want to say, while there are a lot of Easter Eggs for FF8 in the Eden series, the vast majority of them are contextualized into the FF14 story, and I think this is where FF14 shines. Where the names or visuals of things may be easter eggs, but also fit the narrative they are in, or at least don't muddy the waters.
Doesn't matter that the final shot of Eden is an almost 1 for 1 of the FF8 flower scene, it's by itself a gorgeous and beautiful transition, fitting the narrative perfectly, AND also is a wonderful homage to another game. FF14 has been described as a love letter to the franchise, and we see that love performed and expressed exquisitely in these moments.
Lahabrea once said. “The Hammer of Darkness must needs be brought down upon the shield of Light.”
Cool that in Eden that line gets to truly happen.
I think it was asked and it just turned out to be a coincidence. I love how even their coincidences manage to make sense lore wise
A bit fun fact (and spoilers for FFVIII):
Eden is based on FFVIII and the big bad there is Ultimecia, or her Japanese spelling is “Arutemishia”.
And guess what, Artemis is “Arutemisu” in Japanese spelling
A really cool way to tie things up that may not be as apparent to English players since Ultimecia and Artemis have very different spellings
Also, phase 2 of Eden - 12 Savage is literally Ultimecia, when you look at what the mechanics are, Time Dilation stuff included
@@chriskarpetas Deeper than that, the entirety of the Eden's Promise tier is a recreation of the final boss sequence of FFVIII. E9 is phase 1 (the sorceress), E10 is phase 2 (the beast, Griever), E11 is phase 3 (the junctioned boss), E12 is phase 4 (Ultimecia's more complete fusioned form), and E12S is the final phase (Ultimecia's final form).
I think Gaia died a few times without waking up, which explains her age. The first isn't safe, after all.
How many Minfilias existed before Ryne broke the cycle?
Assuming 100 years, average age of death being 18, dying in battle? At least 6. Maybe more, if they died before they could pick up a blade.
Ran'jit could easily have watched anywhere from 3 to 6 of those girls die before Ryne. No wonder he was so broken.
That's possible but it's more likely that souls aren't rapidly reborn upon death. Considering the lifestream exists and the rate of death to birth is never one to one, most likely there is something akin to a queue, and that the freshly dead may be in transit for quite a while before finding a new body to inhabit. Such that Gaia is likely the first incarnation of Lohgrif since her passing 100ish years ago.
And Minfilia is a bad (but understandable) comparison because that wasn't her going through the process of rebirth, it was the passing of a vessel (and it's host soul) and transference to a new one. The only reason her new vessel had to grow up and be retrained is because Minfilia refused to compromise their autonomy any further. Had she been so compelled she may have been able to forcibly shape her hosts in the same fashion ascians can. But that last part isn't certain as her nature might have only appeared similar to an ascian, it needn't necessarily have the same properties.
I don't think it's been officially stated but from what we've seen souls kinda chill or gestate in the lifestream until they are reborn as a new life and this time can vary.
Or she just didn't reincarnate immediately? Like... For all souls there is a time that they spend in the aetherial sea. Our enemies aren't reborn instantly.
@@ericbright1742 The general agreement is around 6 because Minfilia is willfully reincarnating herself, then awakening as herself within the new reincarnations. The new girls are reincarnations of her but much like with the ascians they are unique individuals and personalities who get replaced when their past life awakens within them.
My headcanon on the titan car is its fused with the 2nd boss of the gymlit dark in our head, since that boss's thing was basically digging, and it kinda has the same mechanical parts as eden titan.
for the cloud of darkness, since she is scatatch sized and we see a lot of void ark visuals in her fight i can only presume our warrior mixed the cloud with scatatch
Well if I recall koji fox said it's from our mental association of kobold and titan. Our fights with the illuminati and their tanks stuff
My theory as to what happened is this:
Beating an Ascian normally just pops their soul out of their body. They retreat to the Abyss and then return to possess another. This is part of the 'elevation' that the Unsundered can impart to them upon raising them to their former office.
Hitting them with a Blade of Light CAN be fatal... but only if they take the hit. With Lahabrea, he bailed back to the Abyss after the first hit popped him out of Thancred. The function of the White Auracite is to 'pin' the Ascian soul to force them to take the hit (Nabriales and Igeyorhm). Emet-Selch broke free of the Auracite, but rather than dodge he tried to overpower the Warrior of Light, and thus took the full force of all of the Lightwarden light to the face. With Mitron and Loghrif, I suspect they couldn't dodge in time (Given Ardbert's Blade of Light was more powerful, being empowered by FIVE Warriors of Light). Loghrif took the hit to protect Mitron and was destroyed and re-entered the pool of reincarnation, where Mitron survived but his body was warped into Eden, trapping him.
1:50
LOL! I have learned over two decades ago to only really engage in meaningful discussion about a mainline FF game with its respective fans. What a FF game should be literally changes from person to person and even then that person's definition might change with each passing day. This discourse existed SINCE FINAL FANTASY 2. *2!!!* My heart goes out to you guys, you can't escape that whole shit show since you're putting your videos out there for the world to see. Good luck, brothers.
E12 has the most triumphant music transition i find in all of the non-MSQ content. The raid series as a whole really shows off how powerful ff8's motifs were, even if ff8 isnt my favorite game.
Same, but the soundtrack on it is some of Uematsu's best work, IMO.
I like how you specify "non-MSQ content", because otherwise I'd have to have words. :) Words like "Royal Menagerie".
In the ARR power point that Minfilia and Urianger give as for the need for White Auracite, they talk about how Ascians will escape their bodies into the rift when they are defeated. The White Auracite traps them long enough to hit them with enough aether to disperse their aether, effectively killing them and their aether is returned to the Aetheral Sea. However, we see that in Heavensward with GigaPope, he just blasts Lahabrea with enough aether from Nidhogg's eye to straight up kill him before he can escape after we weaken him with our fight. Similar to Emet with the Axe of Light that was formed from all the Lightwardens. So with Gaia, she was straight killed by Ardbert and crew's Blade of Light and returned to the Aetheral Sea to be reborn but Mitron was corrupted by it. Basically they blew away half of Ascian Prime and the other half was infected by the light and became Eden. At least that's how I interpreted it.
This is the best, most clear explanation I’ve found in these comments. It needs more 👍 👍
Minor correction: King Thordan ate Lahabrea's soul, because he's a primal and primals consume aether. So its true that he didn't trap him in auracite, but he did prevent his escape in a different way.
@@ZedPower Well sure, but I saw it as he killed him and as his aether dispersed he absorbed it before it could flow back into the aetheral sea. Basically he had to pop the water balloon of his corporeal form to absorb his aether.
man, i am so, *so* glad you loved eden so much!! it's still probably my favorite raid series to date (still chewing on the EW one mentally but i think eden still wins out). the fights, the music, the story--all of it is just *chefs kiss*
to go a bit deeper on the references aspect of the raids...as a fan of FF8 (there are dozens of us!), i knew i was probably always going to love eden at least on a surface level. but i was honestly so pleased that the team working on this took parts of 8 and made them work with a story they wanted to tell using 14's lore and characters! i think any time 14 takes a reference to the other games in the series and makes it important for a reason unique to 14's world (like crystal tower and alexander), it is infinitely better than simply going "hey, want to fight a train?". don't get me wrong, i love the train fight! but eden feels like way more than just the devs going "hey, remember FF8? the game with the gunblade?", and as a fan of *both* it makes me happy. it feels less like a moment where people who didn't play certain FF games are left out--it feels like they told a really cool story and for people who *know* the references, there's just a little bit more there as a cherry on top.
seeing garrett go "i didn't play that FF game" in past videos when talking about such references really reminded me that some of these references are still so well done and not just shoe-horned in, so it doesn't feel like something is flying over your head. i am so, so glad eden was so well told even outside of the pieces from FF8 that it uses.
Nabrieles didn’t rez himself so much as he just pulled himself back together. He was still the same shard that was found by the Unsundered at some point. That’s we needed to trap him in White Auracite or some other containment method such as the Crystal Tower or Ascalon.
Gaia on the other hand, as the Loghriff that helped bring about the flood had that soul fragment destroyed and returned to the aethereal sea (they don’t really explain how the First’s WoL did this). That destroyed fragment will eventually be reborn. Our Gaia is another fragment of Loghriff that was born naturally on the first. Perhaps the same fragment as the one that was destroyed, perhaps not.
The main difference is that Loghriff as seemingly killed properly which means another shard needed to be found and ascended using the memory crystals, while Nabrieles wasn’t properly killed the first time and therefore he just rebuilt his form using creation magic. After Nabrieles is properly dealt with due to Moenbryda’s sacrifice, he like Gaia would need to have another shard of him found an ascended.
they do actually explain how the firsts wol did kill them, they were stronger in the light than out wol not to mention there were 5 of them, so much so that they used enough to warp a being of darkness into a being of pure light
@@GamestMesa Oh, I got that. I’m more talking about the fact that Loghriff didn’t just mutate as well or reform instantly like other Ascians when not trapped somehow, but I guess you could argue that since Mitron held the light, and 5 WoL are pretty strong, that fragment of Gaia was just completely overwhelmed.
32:34 essentially what happened to Gaia was, she properly died, returned to the aetherial sea and eventually reincarnated.
The Ascians need a certain level power remaining to allow them to cheat death and the manner she died left her too weak to employ her trick.
So regarding the "Ascian death" talk without any spoilers:
Ascians can either be killed temporarily or permanently. Temporary=Current body destroyed but can respawn quickly. See: Lahabrea end of 2.0, Nabriales first death, Emet getting shot by Varis etc.
Permanently=Killed in a way that completely obliterates them and their soul cannot manifest itself again and is instead sent into the Aetherial Sea to be properly reborn. See: Every Ascian that we've defeated completely.
I don't think it's ever fully specified but I think when Ardbert defeated the Ascian Prime of Mitron and Loghriff it was Loghriff that has taken the blunt of the attack and died permanently to be reborn, while the rest of the attack couldn't fully finish off Mitron but instead warped him into a sin eater.
I love how this raid makes it canon that our WoL has brain damage because some of those summon memories were... ooh boy.
Also regarding tie-ins, both Alexander and Omega were literally the key to unlocking time travel in Shadowbringers.
He doesn't have brain damage , he doesn't know how to summon properly when he's not using his later cheat code. Summoning things take a lot of mental power and practise something we haven't done nearly enough by that point.
Actually the reason the primals we summon aren't accurate portrayals is tackled in a few places, but most potently from our time exploring Amaurot. As speculated before fighting Emet-Selch, summoning as we've known it stems from the ancient's creation magics. And in our interactions with them in Amaurot we learn that even for them it takes careful focus and control as even errant thoughts can alter the final product, sometimes drastically. We have absolutely no practice at this, are working with other amateurs, utilizing a poorly understood living machine. That we achieved the approximations we did is genuinely miraculous lol.
thats fitting given what our earlier primal-based egi creations were a Summoner until we get them proper in EW (right after Eden no less). that and the WoL is hinted to have a certain degree of trauma as well as memory issues, possibly from concussions... and aforementioned trauma
@@tenjenkspoilers for endwalker
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
the fact the wol is so good at it kind of, to me, alludes to/foreshadows our connection to azem and to the world unsundered. we end up fully utilizing *actual creation magics* (not our star summoning) to open the path to meteion by summoning the elpis flowers. granted, emet and hythlos souls help, but all they really can do is provide their aether. the technique is the same as summoning a primal; but we're arguably the first person to ever do it post sundering without the use of additional crystals and extra wills (ysayle as shiva is closeish but she still required the belief in her from the heretics)
This raid and 5.3 are the main reasons I tried out FFXIV for the first time! They are sooo good! I remember seeing the FFXIV tweet out about Ryne and Gaia holding hands in the art and thinking it was so cute!
Ryne and Gaia is one of my favorite relationships in the game and I hope we get to see them again! 🥺
LMAO Same! Gaia has Daria voice in my head too. I'm the oldest in my FC at 37. No one knows what I'm talking about when I said this to them. Poor kids will never understand lol
Ryne is the Oracle of Light, channeling the Light on a world that was 99% Light, further empowered by Eden itself, the first Sin Eater and then further buffed by Mitron's Ascion power. I don't think Ryne could have pulled all that off on any of the other reflections/source, or if the First hadn't been in its flooded stated.
To be fair, the true "power" of the Warrior of Light is really hard to gauge. There aren't a lot of devastating hits we have canonically taken. Most of the devastating hits that would reduce us to the consistency of chunky salsa we either dodge, deflect, find some way to evade, or have to burn a limit break to endure.
Probably our biggest feats so far are: blocking the Susano sword, tanking that shot before the 5.3 trial, and the LB4 from the same trial we had to LB3 in response to.
The game shows us our greatest power is that classic anime trope of tilting your head to the side and having the strike ruffle your hair as it blows past you. Time and again, it also shows if a shot actually lands, it _hurts._
@@ericbright1742 That's what I love about FF14, honestly. It's all very BYOB (or "Bring Your Own Backstory"), and perhaps the only reason they're the "best of the best" is because they're willing to fight like no one fights and help others like no one helps. They're powerful not because they're unbreakable, but because they're still good no matter how many times they break. The world needs more stories like that. :D
@@birdjericho Sometimes, the world needs someone who is willing to be that stubborn asshole when the cause is right and just.
They should just make raids mandatory at this point IMO
Future MSQ instalments would benefit greatly from being able to draw on them as more than just passing remarks.
And they might get some fuckin' voicework, too!
Especially since people REALLY want to see Gaia in the MSQ, what with her being tied into the restoration of the First so heavily and the youth festival they keep mentioning at the end of Eden and on other occasions
ryne and gaia being (imo, at least) canon makes more sense when you think about how, in general, the romances in ff14 dont generally take a front stage/are that "explicit", even when theyre obviously intended by the devs. like, the only explicit couples i can think of are ones who are already married (ie the chais). even runar and yshtola are left vague, even though the intent is obviously that runar is in love with yshtola (and maybe reciprocated).
given that the ff8 scene in question that the end of eden mirrors is an explicitly romantic scene between the male and female leads of that game, i feel pretty confident in saying ryne and gaia are, canonically speaking, romantically involved. i would say it goes beyond "fan reading" and into "dev intended to be romantic". if one of them was a man, i doubt there would be *anyone ever* saying they just seem them as friends. as a gay person myself, eden being so a. important b. beautifully written as a love story between two girls is a huge reason i have such an affinity for this game (and hope to see more lgbtq characters in the future!)
yeah this really doesn't feel like "we want to keep it vague because gay", romance is not like super front and center in the game in general and even with the implied straight pairings it is still very vague so it's more "this is just how the game handles romance"
Until the devs say something is "canon" its left up in the air like their discussions on Venat and Zenos, this so people can headcanon anything not explicit which mainly comes down to romantic interest as to not piss anyone off. So until devs say the relationship is canon we have the "roomates" memes so people can headcanon shit like polyamory or whatever else they want to self insert their WoLs into.
@@kinkarcana1293 i just want to say that "nothing is canon unless the devs say it is outside of the game" is the most insane opinion you could possibly have on media i think. like this is genuinely so funny and an insane amount of gymnastics to do to reject the fact that these two girls are, in fact, romantically interested in each other, because it is so completely obvious from the text. your reading comprehension skills must be killer
@@kinkarcana1293 nobody is headcanoning anything with ryne and gaia btw because theyre teenagers and the wol has been shown to be old enough to drink and order alcohol at a bar so.
@deepseametro what are you talking about? Teens play this game as well and its a fantasy world where kids can ostensibly drink at any age. Stop forcing you headcanon on others.
I love love love LOVE Eden. It and Werlyt are so dear and close to my heart. Great video! I can't wait until the Weryt break down too!
The sorrows, ohhhhhh the sorrows...
Ryne wasn't just Shiva when she kicked our ass she was also channelling "Hydaelin" with the Light aspect in the fight as well. Represented by her outfit matching the mural, the 'Stomp' and the mini-Mothercrystals.
"Wait they're STARTING with Eden?!" NO BUT FOR REAL. That was my reaction precisely.
Eden isn't just themed on references to FFVIII, but also Illusion of Gaia. The overall story arc is identical and that final shot of Eden, all lush and green with the big tree in the back, is literally the box art for IoG.
funny trivia about the voidwalker, the artist who designed it said they thought they were designing a mount at first, so the monster part of the model was more horizontal like a plane, but then when he realized it was supposed to be a boss they adapted it to be like how it is now!
The heartbeat-esque thumping at the start of E12 is basically hardwired to make me cry
also Ryne chose to try Shiva because light and ice are related alignments with powers over stasis, she thought she could relate to Shiva's story too but it over whelmed her. Her other forms in that fight are her idea of Hydaelyn too from the cave drawings. She gets more outfits in the higher difficulty version
im so glad i stumbled upon this video when looking for ppl discussing the eden raids because i really love them. and ive now caught up on your guys playthrough from arr to ew and its just been so great to listen to you both talk about the story, characters, game etc. thank you. o7
I love how Garret said he went from seeing the "Oh they're dating" as Fan Theory every time they did the Eden streams, to being a Shipper himself now.
Sadly. We are to the point now where two people can’t just be friends any longer. Omg two people are hanging out, they must be Fing! Let’s ignore the story and symbolism the game is presenting and just head cannon the shit out of it.
@@rllove016148 Same energy as the people who said Samwise and Frodo were gay.
@@rllove016148 I agree. Both my wife and I went through Eden and neither of us came out of the other end thinking they were a romantic couple. My wife even went back and rewatched some of the cutscenes afterwards and was like "This isn't how two women interact with each other that are romantically inclined." Also Ryne is very much underage and Gaia is not, so if people really wanna go that direction, that opens up a lot of cans of worms both implications about the writer and how people are looking at it.
@@rllove016148 That does seem like what you're about, yes. Do pay a bit more attention to the symbolism in the future. Ideally quietly, and out of sight.
@@EternaltheGrey Sorry no can do. Also, the symbolism there was as I already interpreted. Nothing was there to imply or support yours and anyone elses head canon.
The Eden raids are indeed great. From the WoL conjuring some pretty wild Primal designs to confronting the Ascian that Emet mentioned during his speech in Mount Gulg, not to mention the amount of FFVIII references - if you told me that this could've easily been a part of the MSQ I would have no doubt believe that it is true.
The one for one shot of the FFVIII ending with Ryne finding Gaia is still one of my favorite moments in the game.
Great Video as always.
All the Eden aside, the trend of greek god names for the convocation (Hades, Artemis, Gaia), and greek names in general (Hythlodaeus), the community at this point started pondering, if Azem is our title, what is our unsundered's original name.
So, knowing your own Warriors of Lights, Tuna and Val, what would your unsundered names be?
I believe the official explanation to the titan car is "Kobolds and Goblins are pretty similar, right?"
You can hear the connection best by comparing the Goblins "Metal" theme from Alexander and Titan's theme.
I love the way u two been gping trough the game the payoff and the after thoughts u made are the best
did anyone ever tell you guys how big Coffee Biscuits were? it was the big thing to craft for money via crafting levequests so you could grind out the "honest gillionaire" achievement/title, something about all the ingredients being easy? they nerfed it near the end of post-shadowbringers, and they nerfed it to give 1337 gil instead of whatever it was
The items for the coffee biscuits were three readily gatherable items (upland wheat -> flour at lv 71, garden beets -> sugar at lv 73, coffee beans at lv 78) in relatively small quantities that could be crafted with very quick macros and low-investment gear; I never actually did it but I did have some friends who did it religiously.
Not only that, they revamped the whole levequest reward system
Coffee biscuit spam was how I got my Honest Gillionaire achievement. It was very easy to gather the ingredients casually via retainer, which I think was key.
I'm really surprised neither of you mentioned that in the end Eden became a tree.
I've always thought it was a nice capstone to the inspiration they pulled from.
Fun note about the Cloud of Darkness design thing.
The Crystal tower Cloud of Darkness is designed as she appeared in the original Final Fantasy 3 game, while the Eden raid version is designed as she appeared in the arena crossover fighting games, Dissidia. The Eden version even has a number of attacks that pull from her moveset in Dissidia that weren't in FF3.
She was designed by Nomura.. it all makes so much sense now...
Gaia's character designer is Tetsuya Nomura, which Garret maybe know as the Kingdom Hearts' director and character designer, also character deigner of FF10, and lots of other FF characters
I could see how the Shiva fight may have ended the WoL. She’s basically a manifestation of the power hydaelen used to give you your power to stave off corruption. If there would be a power to overpower the warrior of light, would it not say… be an excess of light? The very thing that made them strong in the first place. I hope we get more fights that push the WoL to their canonical edge like this.
They don't bring it up, but an interesting motive for needing ice would be to make it rain. Even with clouds, it won't rain until a warm front hits a cold front.
*Scene recreates 1:1 an important FF8 between Squall and Rinoa*
*A version of whats basically Squall and Rinoa's love theme plays in the scene*
*They are brought back to a field of flowers in front of the gayest crystal ever deviced*
"Ryne and Gaia sure are good friends"
The last fight of Eden's Promise made me cry. It was an incredibly heart breaking experience to go through, and it still makes me emotional running that fight. Part of it is the loss of identity that Gaia is experiencing with the destruction of her memories and part of it is the desperation that Ryne feels trying to save this person, who may be the third most important person in her life -- even more so than you are, from self-destruction, identity loss, and removal of empathy. Ryne's desperation, Gaia's desperation in not wanting to lose her memories, and our desperation in trying to keep them safe just significantly amped the emotions of this fight. Kudos to the storywriters, the translation team, and the combat design team. If any of these elements had been any less contributing to the story, tone, and impact of the dungeon, the emotional response wouldn't have been quite so cathartic.
Thank you, I was waiting for this coverage! Just you wait about Void Ark and the Ivalice raids... You'll see just how required they are~
Actualy, Ryne was shiva AND HYDELIN during that fight, most people don't notice but when she goes from armor to the veil, that's changing from shiva to hydelin, iirc her enrage is the severing blow that split the source
Someone may have told you guys this already, but the multi-breast thing on E12 is actually likely a reference to classical depictions of Artemis of Ephesus, the Anatolian goddess later co-opted into the Greek goddess Artemis, in sculpture--if you look up Artemis of Ephesus statues you'll see the resemblance. This obviously ties in with Mitron's true name, but also with Eden's whole FF8 theming in general, as the last boss of FF8, Ultimecia, is transliterated as アルティミシア in katakana, phonetically identical to how you would spell Artemisia, the queen of Halicarnassus named for Artemis, which arguably may have been the original intent prior to localization. Ultimecia's boss theme, The Extreme, even plays in the savage-only second phase of E12. It's a neat little art history nod in the boss's design.
Eden took note of everything that worked in Previous Raid Naratives, like the ones you mention, like crystal towers too in my opinion, and really stuck the landing.
It's not perfect, and i do have a lot of minor and not so minor complaints. But i still loved it. And i genuinely feel So Bad for anyone who didn't do the Eden raids along side Shadowbringer.
The Cloud of Darkness was specifically modeled after one of the base versions of Dissidia's take on it. The minion you get for the Cloud from World of Darkness had also referenced this model despite the boss being based more on the FF3 version. After the time I put into Dissidia, I was pretty happy to see it get a cameo.
In regard to Gaia being young, what I can tell is that sundered Ascians have 'normal' lifespans. If they realize their power, they can better control body-hopping or retaining memories if they do become reborn. Unsundered seem to not have issues with this, though they may need to body hop as the need be. Whatever the explanation, Gaia seems to have always had trouble retaining her original memories with every reincarnation, even when the other ascians downloaded them for her.
Someone may have already mentioned this, but after completing Eden be sure to visit the room at the top floor of the Catenaries (the apartments to the left of the Pendants).
About coffee biscuit, I don't know if dev pull that up as a reference to what player did back in ShB or it's just coincident. For those who didn't played or reached ShB at that time, coffee biscuit leve quest was very popular back then, due to relatively easy to get material and it's an x3 leve quest. Each week people can make money from it atleast 1-1.5 m from an hour or so of crafting. It kinda get meme'd on about who's keep eating coffee biscuit or how much coffee biscuit is in Crystarium's storage.
(It was nerfted in 6.0 by reduce reward for every x3 leve quest to 1/3)
The giant rainbow crystal also gives very roommate energy.
So as I understand it, Asians work like this.
The Ascians we met before Gaia were all disembodied spiirts/souls, kinda like how the Scions were on the First. Sometimes they'll inhabit a host body like Lahabrea did with Thancred and Ellidibus did with Arrbert's old body.
Killing Ascians the normal way - aka breaking their body - doesn't kill the Ascian per se, it just evicts them from their body (or it sometimes doesn't, see Ellidibus in Zenos' body). An Ascian evicted in this way can retreat to some shadow realm (which is NOT the realm of death) from which they can return to the regular living world any time they want. We get to see the Shadow Realm when Ellidibus tries to trap us there during his Trial.
To properly kill an Ascian, you have to do it one of two ways. Either hit them with overwhelming amounts of aether, or drain them dry of aether (as with Primals and the Crystal Tower). The White Auracite as explained when it's introduced is just there to hold the Ascian soul in place long enough to do either one, ie, preventing them from retreating to the Shadow Realm. And even then, properly killing an Ascian just sends them into the reincarnation cycle as seen with Gaia and Emet's cameo during the Ellidibus fight.
Although it's never explained in so many words, I THINK the reason Ascians don't properly die when disembodied is because their souls are still holding on to loads of aether which fuels their ability to remain among the living. Both methods of properly killing an Asian deprives them of the extra aether, either by shattering their hold on it via the "hit them with loads of aether" method, or straight up depriving them of it using the "drain them of aether" method.
But how does the first method work you ask? Shouldn't hitting an Ascians with lots of aether replenish their supply? Well think of it like this: Humans need water to live. To make sure you stay alive, you carry a jug of water with you wherever you go. If I hit you with say...a jet of water from a fire hose powerful enough to knock you over, how well do you think you can hang on to that jug? Same deal with Ascians and aether; either the Ascian's hold on their extra aether is knocked loose by the overwhelming aether, or they drain themselves dry shielding themselves from the attack. Either way, they're run out of the aether they're using to prevent themselves from dying.
PS: As I understand it, Ascians travel across worlds in soul only. Someone like Emet-Selch only looks the same as he did on the Source, because he found a body on the First to inhabit and rehaped it (clothing included) to look like his body on the Source. If Gaia were to travel to the Source or other Shards using Ascian methods, she'd have to leave her corporeal body behind. Ardbert and company used the same methods, and their physical appearance on the Source worked in the same way as the Scions physically appearing in the First; they were disembodied souls only despite acting like they had corporeal bodies. Gra'ha Tia and the WoL were truly the first ones to travel between Shards with their corporeal bodies.
Yeah the game makes a joke about the WoL getting too many blows to the head, but I think the REAL reason the primals are different is because Eden/Mitron's power is all about corrupting memories! The game never outright says it, but that's what I put together.
I dunno if anyone’s pointed it out but Gaia’s designer is also the man behind the entirety of Kingdom Hearts.
I think he also had a hand in the plot too. Whole thing is Nomura AF
@@Yvanne 1000%.
Here the main thing is that Nomura has created NUMEROUS goth women in games.
@@tenjenk He literally made Organisation 13... an entire org of goths..
19:55 A giant beaver as the Oracle of Wood is making my inner teenager giggle inappropriately.
Ayyy the gal pals’ story vid out right before the end of pride month good timing lol
Was on the final 3 raids for this series when this video dropped. Went and completed the series so I could watch the video without spoiling myself XD
Still disappointed that we didn’t get Titan’s ATV as a mount
The discussion between Urianger and Ryne was different in the context they were using tho. In that as the oracle of darkness, they felt that while it was unlikely the girl was an Ascian (having shown no signs of being one), she could be a servant of Zodiark. The emet bit was more of a dramatic personality reference
Also, randomly, one thing I don't think came across too well in the dialogue for the Shiva fight, but I believe part of the reason Ryne felt the need to *become* Shiva was because of how we described meeting Ysayle and how she became Shiva. And as Ysayle's misconceptions about Shiva colored her interpretation of the primal, Ryne's misconceptions of Shiva - and the relation between ice and light - did the same, which is why her white robes look like the cave paintings of Hydaelyn.
Okay, I'm...stunned there was no talk about the Hydaelyn connections in the Ryne Shiva fight. O_O
The Eden Storyline was truly what opened my eyes to the side content being worth it’s salt. Given it was the first raid series I sunk my teeth into after doing the MSQ current, it holds a special place in my heart. I only pray Ryne and Gaia get more attention in the future.
"Ryne overpowering the WoL with the power of Shiva". Not just Shiva. Ice + Light. She spends the fight alternating between two outfits/forms.
Check out her second outfit again and cross reference with a suspicious cave painting after the Qitana Ravel dungeon.
Editing is on point like always, I hope they seriously make these quests mandatory since we may be seeing gaia in the msq sooner than later. Fingers crossed they give this raid the crystal tower treatment *edit* gaia being in msq speculation is not a spoiler btw! I just want her in msq lol one can only hope
Great video, as always! Will look forward to you guys revisiting these topics once you are current. In the meantime, thanks again for wonderful Wednesday!
After you do savage, i wanna see you recap that and all its... "differences"
It takes the story... to the... "extreme"
I saw a joke before where the Warrior of Light asks Urianger (I think) how many wheels Titan had and Urianger jokingly answers "four".
This raid gave me my favorite line in shadowbringers:
"He's half men, half beard and another half beard for good mesure"
I lost my mind about the Eden raid when we learned that the reason the flood came about wasn't just that the WoLs defeated an ascian...it was because of Ardbert's burning desire to bring about a victory for light. And his will in that moment was literally impressed upon Mitron to the point that he was filled with light and twisted physically, much like someone who is overexposed to A PRIMAL'S INFLUENCE, TEMPERED but it was a super powered speed run. Lost. My. Mind. Because if Ardbert can do it, so can we.
Glad to see you enjoy Eden! I've seen the story be pretty divisive. There was a group that dismissed it as too fluffy or felt like it was too juvenile since it was about teen girls. I thought it was nice character development and conclusion to Ryne's arc in the expansion.
So, here's the thing about the memory stuff. We have good evidence that _other_ beings have summoned primals in ways that look NOTHING like the original inspiration. Specifically, we've seen an image (a poster) of what Bahamut originally looked like, a poster that shows all of the members of the First Brood.
He had completely different horns, and _golden_ scales, and FEATHERS, and while he was definitely meatier than his siblings, he was still a noodle.
So if his mate, who summoned Elder Primal Bahamut _specifically_ because she wants vengeance for his death...and yet he looks so severely different.
Summoning is an inherently imprecise art and results in products that don't match up with the memories you draw upon.
Eden 12 is based off of the model of Artemis of Ephesus.
Fun Fact, the "boobs" on the front are not breasts, they are bull testes.
Have you seen the fountain?
@@Amovetv which fountain?
It's been awhile since I did E12S- I only know about the bull testes thing because I needed something to lookup while we wiped.
Just two lesbians, saving the world with their giant rainbow crystal
I mean, Gaia could've been just the latest rebirth of the soul that was Loghrif, either it took her 100-ish years to be reborn or she's been reborn several times and only this time she got into contact with Mitron as the latter got more of himself back, it's hard to tell exactly what Arbert and co used to completely kill Loghrif as the Ascian she was back then though.
Nabriales was only defeated first and came back at once, maybe all Ascians got some kind of anchor that keeps them connected to the rift and keeps them around even when they're defeated, or they just escape shortly before the real killing blow like a kind of... soul dodge🤔, Nabriales only stopped coming back after he was killed properly while stuck in the white auracite.
My favorite raid story as well. Glad you enjoyed and awesome vid!
Crystal Tower was a mostly unimportant side story itself and took 3 expansions later to feel important. Other 8 and 24 man raids could definitely still become more significant in future MSQ or raids.
This is my take on the situatio; I think the warping of Mitron happened because they didnt have white auricite, causing the light axe actually reaspected and essentially tempered mitron instantly, warping him into eden the first sineater, essential a light aspected voidsent made from an entity with the power of creation, even if a fraction. Whne minfillia came and stopped the flood it brought a bit of darkness back to the world, rebalancing it slightly and awakening mitron's mind. During this tine Gaia was being stuck in a cycle of reincarnation. When we came, every little thing we did added more darkness, waking mitron up more. When we defeated Eden prime he had gained the strength to override and puppet Gaia, when we summoned a primal of darkness, there was enough of a balance to fully awaken him.
In the scene where Mitron talks to Logrif in the past, Mitron implies (from what I understand) that Logrif, as the Oracle of Darkness, was meant to be Zodiark's Heart, but something happened to her. She might have died in the Final Days or from something else, and Elidibus was chosen as the next best candidate.
Eden was the most powerful summon in ff8. The music that was playing 11:43 is also from ff8
i love the ending thoughts of this video guys, happy pride month
My theory isn't that our memory is bad, but that we can't help but think alsp of 'similar' encounters as we think of these primals. Like how Ramuh is an amalgamation of Ramuh, Ranjit, and Ixion. Those were all powerful, lightning-weilding encounters. So I think Wden grabs not just the one thing we're trying to think of, but surrounding, related memories too.
Idk if Emet will be back... But he is the king of the Underworld, after all... ;)
Very late but the Mitron plan is an evil mirror of Alexander love ending, which is neat
Ascians dont "die" unless you trap them with auracite and hit them with a blade of light. When they DO die they're not 'destroyed', their soul just goes to the lifestream where they're dead like anyone else who dies. Any soul in the lifestream can end up being reborn.
Lost Stars was a great book
i highly recommend going into the savage version e12 when you get the chance! it's considered noncanon, but you get some really cool what ifs to sit upon and ponder as well as, in my opinion, one of the most enjoyable savage fights i've ever done. shits full of mechanics that are incredibly satisfying to pull off correctly!
also recommend going into the savage of e8 as well, if you want some Extra Shiva Food as well as some mechanics that will truly make you want to bash your head into a wall (in a good way).
All of the 12 part full-party & alliance raids are arguably important to the overarching story.
ALL OF THEM.
If yall didn't do the Omega raids, you're missing out for Endwalker.
I kinda hope if/when they make Eden mandatory and we see Ryne and Gaia in the MSQ Ryne will have discovered that she retained the ability to transform into Shiva if provided with enough aether. Big Endwalker spoiler (it's been out for a while at time of writing but still) but we found out that Zenos was able to transform into Shinryu after merging with it in the past. I know the circumstances aren't EXACTLY the same but following the same sort of logic Ryne should be able to do the same with Shiva, right? Except have her retain control and make it like a cool gunbreaker Shiva or something.
For those that didn't play FF VIII, some of the major themes of FF VIII are memories and... love. FF VIII was, I believe, the first one that had a love song with vocals in the soundtrack (Does the FF VI Opera count?).
I do wish they would be BRAVE and hard confirm the Ryne/Gaia relationship, but considering all the references there really is no question in my mind how the writers and devs intended us to read into their dynamic. Giant rainbow pride crystal or no.
Also in regards to Cloud of Darkness - the entire original crystal tower raid is an homage to FF3. I didn't play it (maybe I will someday), but my understanding is Cloud of Darkness was the final boss of FF3 and her concept art looks more like this version, though her in game sprite in FF3 more resembled the crystal tower boss (though realistically, if you could look behind the, well, cloud... I am sure the rest of her model would resemble this anyway).
The crystal tower, Xande, Doga, Unei and a bunch of the bosses and trash were all in FF3.
Shadowkeeper fight created one of my raid static's best memes: "The shadow is the new ass!"