Always interesting to hear your personal thoughts on armour. The issue I have is that my Milanese harness is much heavier than my Gothic plate, so it's an unfair comparison! One day, you'll have to come over here and try the armour on a real horse!
Veagirs have entered the chat. King Yaroglek is this a provocation? “Kingdom of Veagirs has declared war against kingdom of Swadia”. King Harlaus let’s have a 7 day feast!
I prefer the gothic style, because it always looks more slim and in my personal opinion a little bit more elegant, but same as you, I love both stiles. And I’m of course also a bit biast because I am from south Germany, but even if I was English, French or Polish, I think I would still prefer Gothic, just because I love the combination of the slim armour style and the fluting.
I'm Polish and yes i prefer gothic/germanic style armour when it comes to later style armours but for our most popular period for reenactors - we call it Grunwald battle period (1400-1410) its brigandine + short face bascinet (we call them monkey face, those flat ones, the ones with cones on facemask they get hit with shield and that snaps your head in a bad way).
Gothic Style for me. One more thing about fluting - it not only makes the structure stronger (by increasing the stiffness of hte metal) it also adds angles which could cause weapons to to hit at angles that also could encourage the hit to slide of or waste a lot of energy in less damaging ways.
There's a reason modern armors are not "fluted". Flutings are shot traps. They guide the blow against a 90° surface, where it can cause the max damage.
@@neutronalchemist3241 modern weaponry and modern body armour also is not comparable to medieval armour and medieval weaponry. If a crossbow bolt would it a fluting, instead of hitting at a 90° against the armour, the bolt would 1) waste energy due to getting redirected and 2) still not hit at a 90° angle. Especially since the breast plate itself is still rounded. The flutings itself aren't straight but flare out, so even there is no 90° Angle Modern body armour also usually isn't full plate, but kevlar or ceramic plates... not really flutable
@@jeroylenkins1745 in medieval times that actually is accurate. Looking really nice on the battlefield? You might have money to pay a ransom. And that might make the difference between being captured and being killed.
@@undertakernumberone1 I didnt' say "body armour". Vehicle armors too are made to avoid shot traps. If a spear point hit any part of the fluting, is diverted where it can do the most damages, becaus the same flutings avoid it to glance off.
The Gothic style armour sometimes had a sliding rivet to give similar mobility as the leather strap. Fluting is the fashion of the cloth garments worn by nobility, extra folds/fluting is more fabric is more wealth. The greaves are not filtered because fashionable tight stockings are smooth
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You'll probably find the biggest difference to be mobility in the arms and shoulders between gothic and milanese. The gothic is less protective and more mobile, especially the common floating style of arms and elbows where each piece is separate and tied to your arming coat / base garment. The milanese is more protective and, in my opinion, better suited for horseback due to the larger pauldrons and arm armor being a single solid assembly. (source: I've worn a full suit of each style)
One thing to add: there are depictions of Italian knights with their shoulders taken off but their arms in place fighting on foot in Fiore's manual. Knyght Errant points this out as probably a compromise to increase mobility when not charging on horseback and feeling the need for very high levels of protection.
Prefer the Gothic one. I specifically like the Lorenz Helmschmied styles of Gothic armor, the ones with less fluting. Not that I don't like fluting, but I really like the smooth look of the armor with some fluting here and there.
I personally prefer the aesthetic of the Gothic plate armour, but I still like the Italian. What is your opinion on other styles like Italian All'antica armour (both 15th and 16th century), 15th century German Kasten-brust armour (the predecessor of the Gothic stile of armour), 16ht century Maximilian armour, 16th century Italian style and others?
I like the late 14th century styles with closely fitted jupons and with the loose, wide sleeved, colourful robes (or gowns), especially with the decoratively cut dagging. I like the things they did with fabric & velvet facings on their armour through the 15th century through western Europe and some of the elaborate coats they wore over their armour. Big fan of the Central and Eastern European coats with the feathery like dagging they wore over the armour. I like the Kasten-Brust, they look silly as hell. Especially like them without the backplate, with just long faulds or mail at the front over one of those fancy German coats.
The German stuff has that distinctive teutonic aesthetic that tickles me the right way. In terms of practicality, I doubt the difference is really that significant.
As I’m living in a historically German area (Czech Republic), I’d be wearing gothic armour which I’m absolutely ok with. As you said, the tastes have changed. I’d always liked the Italian type and especially barbuta helmet but now it’s just meh. I have definitely become ze knight of ze Heilige Römisches Reich.
Aesthetically, I like the Gothic style armour more - except for one part: the helmet. The Milanese style cross helm is way more pleasing to my eye than a Gothic style helmet that leaves the lower head completely exposed.
Depends on the period... by the turn of 1500 German harness was such that I would prefer it every time. But Italian harness up to about 1480 or so was usually superior in terms of protection. Fewer gaps, tighter articulation, etc. Germans had a strong preference for floating arm harness, smaller pauldrons, shorter faulds, and sallets for a long time. But Italian white harness had VERY few gaps, and they covered them quite obsessively with chain. They also had better helms available. The solid articulation of the arms withstood blows better than floating couters, and they regularly pinned on reinforcements to their harness against lance strikes.
American here, I like both, but I slightly prefer the Gothic style to the Italian. Both are obviously gorgeous, but I love how the fluting looks, and gothic armor seems to be generally slimmer and less bulky. However, I'm an avid enjoyer of Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, so that might be giving me a bit of a bias there.
The milanese style for me... and no, its not just because i am from the southern milanese area, it just looks so good. Also, i think it would just fit extremely well if you managed to go to the blacksmith. I just like how the shoulder plates look, the chest plate and everything. Oh, also i would totally use a spadone with it, hehehe.
Great video as always. That Milanese armour looks really really nice. I watched a great lecture by Dr Tobias Capwell where he compared his milanese armour with is gothic set, it seems the gothic philosophy was to make a well rounded and versitile armour, whilst the Italian philosophy was to have a harness that was as protective as possible for heavy cavalry warfare, but could be configured for foot combat as heavy or even light infantry fighting.
A video about the different widespread regional armour styles of the High Middle-Ages would be pretty interesting. Comparing the Gothic and Milanese styles to other European and non-European ones. Would really like to know what is/was out there, but don't really have the time to research this myself.
No, I honestly can't decide. I like both styles. Can't even say one is more fitting for a darker setting than the other, since the more smooth style of the italian armor reminds me off early berserk and certain scenes in the later half of the Excalibur movie. I just love them both.
Personally I've always been partial to the gothic armor style but if I needed the extra maneuverability I would go for the northern Italian and now that you mention that the leather strap on the front is so difficult to damage I find out like that even more than I used to because I always thought those leather straps on the exterior were always a definite weak spot thanks for letting me know differently
You are not the TH-camr I watch the most, but by far you are my favourite. Watching you is always so wholesome and just feels so fantastic (in themrs like diving into a fantasy world). You do a great job!
I like the smoothness of Italian, but the symmetry of the Gothic. I personally prefer English in the 1st half of the 15th century. A style I'd love to see recreated though is Iberian, despite the fishtail plackart and elbow/ knee fans looking a bit like fantasy spike armour.
English armour is absolutely the best. Reaching it's zenith with Henry VIII's tournament armour. Every joint covered by articulating plates, no weakpots, and prominent codpiece to house big balls.
@@EvidensInsania They have a few suits of his at the museum in Vienna. Suits made in Germany and Austria for him, from when he was a boy, teen, and adult. They are spectacular.
The gothic fluting strikes me as a bit of a trade off. The fluting adds stiffness (in one direction), but also, something for blows to catch on. Again, in one direction. The fluting would, probably divert/channel strikes and stabs along the line a bit. But with the unpredictability of combat, sometimes it would certainly aid a blow not glancing off. Which brings me to what I see as the only real downside of an external piece of leather. A stab/arrow hitting the (relatively small) patch of leather, has almost no chance of deflecting. It is a pretty small target, and of course, adds a leather layer, but really, the being cut isn't a significant downside. Even if you cuit the front and back, the top half would sit on your shoulders, and the lower on your hips. It might aid mobility.
I use armor styles most often in concept art for my games rather than as something I purchase for myself (maybe I'll be able to afford that someday), but in that context I have tried to blend different historical styles to create new cultural aesthetics, and I've had mostly positive results with that so far, though some designs have required more iterations than others.
My guess is: For stylistic comparison, the Italian, Milanese-style armour wins; whereas, for practical purposes, the German, Gothic-style armour wins. Germans are engineers, and Italians are artists, after all. 😅
I love the video man. One thing I wish you had touched on is to do with the fluting. I used to be a smith and knew a lot of armorers, and they held the contention that the flutes also serve to catch and direct blades away from critical areas. That's why you tend to see flutes terminate in the shoulders and hips, to direct thrusts and strikes around the body and mitigate the risk of them sliding up the armor into gaps, such as under the gorget or the armpits. On the same note, they did contend that the flutes had a tendency to catch blunt implements easier, capturing the strike and more of the energy in the process, but I'm unsure of any empirical testing that's been done on that principle
I love the gothic styling as it just looks so gorgeous! The one exception is that I love Milanese pauldrons. I'd love to get Milanese style pauldrons that have been styled gothic for a gothic set
I remember reading a writer in the Age of Pike and Shot (may have been Machiavelli but I could be wrong) actually commenting on the Arquebus (their words not mine) and saying how in the right hands 'it could even break the front strap of armour' which probably implies its a difficult thing to do. Thanks for helping that remark make sense.
A great video again. The problem with your right shoulder plate occurs, because it's strip is to long. Compare it around 10:30 with the other shoulder.
Hope you enjoy your time in the States. Always love seeing you clad in armor. Just looks right. I'm with the Milanese for said reasons of a lot of folks, Utilitarian look.
As someone who is rebuilding my armor I was wondering if you or anyone out there has any suggestions for period art work for ideas. The style and time period I was thinking about was the Norman conquest of southern Italy in the early 12th century. Was hoping to find the name of a few medieval effigies of Normans in Italy or Sicily to start the ball rolling. Thank you and great video. But when you finish the gothic you need to answer the real important question which does your lady like you in most.
Try to find this book in pdf format: Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era 1050-1350: Western Europe and the Crusader States by David Nicolle, it is a compendium of drawings covering most sources for what you want.
I love how that gothic looks on you.. Ok it's not just me... U also brought it up... I thought it seemed very nice... I didn't realize it fit just right
A very informative Video Metatron. Thanks a lot for it. Although I Austrian and not italian I would prefer the italian style of armor in theory. It looks better to me. Not that the gothic style looks bad but I prefer the looks of the Milanese style. Never have worn any armor in real life though so I cannot say which one I would prefer to wear for real because i cannot tell which one would be more comfortable to wear for me. I hope this is going to change at some point in the future when I have some money left to start building my own armor. Would be really interested in doing it. Just for the looks thumps for italian. Concerning the protective value both types should do the pretty well I think.
Being from south germany, i would buy gothic but i dont prefer it to the italian style. Fluting is still popular in south germany with the barrels of hunting rifles. It gives them a premium look and due to a bigger surface makes them cool off faster.
I really like both styles although i am more into Renaissance armor starting at 1500. But soly judging from a historical perspective, Milanese armor is much more protective than gothic armor. Even guys back then admitted that, Dante Aligeri for example said that the italian knights on the battlefield were far more protected than their german counterparts. But saying this, you also have to keep in mind, that milanese armor is horse combat optimzed. It is much heavier and much more enclosing (escpecially the armet) than the gothic harnesses. So on an horse, milanese is the way to go, but on foot or when doing other warfare associated things (camping, marching etc.) gothic armor is not better in a certain way, but more comfortable to wear. So to sum up, milanese armor is outstanding on horse back, gothic armor is a jack of all trades.
I believe that German armor in the 16th century generally didn't have flutes on the greaves is because they were mimicking the fashion at the time & smooth hosiery would be on the calves. The majority of the armor was fluted to look like the common fashion of the time which had a lot of slits and pleats in the fabric.
Fascinating as always - in my opinion the Gothic armour looks fantastic and yes, it does fit you better, but I think it looks better on you too. Gothic armour FTW lol
Who else but the Metatron could bring us such quality and genius content? He’s simply the best creator ever on TH-cam and we should all bow to his greatness! So bow!!! Bow before your king! Do it!
... do something together with Lloyd! he has an awesome gothic harness! ( ... apart from the helmet. A classic sallet would have been so much better.) I like the gothic style best. Like Emperor Maximilian's gothic harness in the Hofjagd- und Rüstkammer in Vienna.
@Metatron If you visit Philly, after you run up the Rocky steps at the Philadelphia museum of art, go in the building and see the Kretzschmar von Kienbusch collection of Italian and German, field, joust, and horse armor
I personally think a German gothic suit of armor because of German always being known for craftmanship and just i think it looks cooler and basic stuff
That Milanese suit is gorgeous, but I think I prefer the less cluttered and more symmetrical Gothic style, seeing as I'm less likely to be on horseback.
I've always liked Milanese armor: it has a utilitarian look, something worn by someone who might actually end up fighting in a place where people might be shooting at him. Gothic plate is very pretty, but it also looks more like a show piece than something people would actually end up using in combat. Like, if Gothic Plate got hit by a lance, I get the feeling the damage would be much more visible, even if protection isn't affected.
Why do you think so much gothic armour has survived? It's because it's users did a lot more standing around in castles looking pretty rather than actual fighting. Whereas English armour, the supreme plate armour has very few surviving examples because of all the wars it was used in.
Hi Metatron. Thanks for the video. It looks to me like the right spaulder is hanging a little lower than the left, which is why it is getting stuck on the breastplate.
Have you ever seen Tobias "Toby" Capwell's black armor? It is amazing! I doubt I'll ever but a full harness but if I do I'll certainly be tempted to get the whatever style armor I choose in blue or black!
I like both! And being able to see both is super cool! But, I'm actually biased. I have learned to love the aesthetic of the first 3/4s of the fourteenth century, before the advent of full "white harness."
For the decoration i prefer the gothic armor, but for the shoulder plates i prefer the asymetrical italien version. Maybe it's because i'm half German and half Italian.
I totally prefer the German gothic armor…it is so pretty! On the other hand, I think sitting a horse will make you realize that the torsion give in your Italian Armor might be very important…
10:01 'plate likes to go inside the armor' part lol 😆. I like the appearance of the Gothic armor because I laughed at the minor technicality. But Italian is sturdier for combat definitely.
I personally prefer the Gothic style for the simple benefits of full body coverage and incredible body flexibility ergonomics. Some of the more personal sets can also get very creative about making sure there are no holes in the armor and keeping full or almost full mobility, and YES it looks SUPREMELY bad ass! 👍👍
I appreciate the Italian stylings and especially the rationale behind behind the asymmetry, but I just prefer the gothic. Idk if it’s a subconscious thing of it being called gothic or me being German or whatever, but I just like it
@@brandonkohler6677 i highly doubt it. at that time the plate armor was made to stop early bullets, and that required very high grade steel at the time. by the time the US steel production became good enough for armor we were well past using infantry plate armor, though we did end up using trauma plates made of steel (and the US did have some of the best).
I'd personally prefer the gothic style. I think the fluting particularily on some of the later gothic pieces is beautiful and I love the german style of gothic sallet.
I prefer the gothic style armor. Mainly due to the aesthetics because of the fluting and the brass accents on other examples from what I have seen. Only problem I have with the style is that the pauldrons are a bit small in my opinion ie it does not look like it gives the best coverage or protection for the shoulder area.
Looking at the pauldrons and the issues you're having with them, i think the right side pauldron is actually being held quite a lot lower and that's causing the issue with it trying to slip underneath the breastplate. If you raised it up i think it would solve the problems without you needing to do any alterations to the breastplate or its fitting.
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Thumbnail: Armour, pizza and beer
Me: Pizza and beer?
Actual video: Armour
Me: 🥺😭
😎🏆👍🏾
14:41 swanky!
th-cam.com/video/tFjA96sldwU/w-d-xo.html Zac Evans made a reply to you about your pauldron issue on how to fix it.
Where can i buy a armor here in europe ??? i life in the Netherlands.
Always interesting to hear your personal thoughts on armour. The issue I have is that my Milanese harness is much heavier than my Gothic plate, so it's an unfair comparison! One day, you'll have to come over here and try the armour on a real horse!
That would be my honour, sir knight! Thank you for the invitation! Honestly the fact that the Queen still hasn't knighted you is beyond me.
I want that collaboration even more than my own armour
why you no post? I'm subbed haven't seen you for long time
@@FlyingAxblade_D20 who, me? sadly I'm super busy with work launching Evil Genius 2 on consoles, so no time free.
@@ModernKnight what? i thought you were guy trotting on horses, so sorry
The Milanese style looks like the armour of a hero, the South German gothic style looks like the armour of a Villain and I love it. 👌🏻
Gothic looks like the classic knight in Shining Amour you mean.
Veagirs have entered the chat. King Yaroglek is this a provocation?
“Kingdom of Veagirs has declared war against kingdom of Swadia”. King Harlaus let’s have a 7 day feast!
@@undertakernumberone1 mayyyyyyybe, depends on the point of few, I guess.
@@davefekete7187 if it isn’t my brave champion Dave Xiongnu, right In Time for the feast.
@@Philipp.of.Swabia but sir you just lost Dhirim…XD
I prefer the gothic style, because it always looks more slim and in my personal opinion a little bit more elegant, but same as you, I love both stiles. And I’m of course also a bit biast because I am from south Germany, but even if I was English, French or Polish, I think I would still prefer Gothic, just because I love the combination of the slim armour style and the fluting.
More butter m'lord
When is the next feast my lord?
@@digiorno1142 if it isn’t my brave champion Digiorno 11, I still remember how we captured Grunwalder castle, what a glorious day.
@@sowianskizonierz2693 I see you carry a Nobleman’s banner, but I don’t recognize your face.
I'm Polish and yes i prefer gothic/germanic style armour when it comes to later style armours but for our most popular period for reenactors - we call it Grunwald battle period (1400-1410) its brigandine + short face bascinet (we call them monkey face, those flat ones, the ones with cones on facemask they get hit with shield and that snaps your head in a bad way).
Gothic Style for me.
One more thing about fluting - it not only makes the structure stronger (by increasing the stiffness of hte metal) it also adds angles which could cause weapons to to hit at angles that also could encourage the hit to slide of or waste a lot of energy in less damaging ways.
There's a reason modern armors are not "fluted". Flutings are shot traps. They guide the blow against a 90° surface, where it can cause the max damage.
@@neutronalchemist3241 modern weaponry and modern body armour also is not comparable to medieval armour and medieval weaponry.
If a crossbow bolt would it a fluting, instead of hitting at a 90° against the armour, the bolt would 1) waste energy due to getting redirected and 2) still not hit at a 90° angle. Especially since the breast plate itself is still rounded. The flutings itself aren't straight but flare out, so even there is no 90° Angle
Modern body armour also usually isn't full plate, but kevlar or ceramic plates... not really flutable
Plus it looks really nice. Never underestimate the value of LCF* in a military situation.
*Looking Cool Factor
@@jeroylenkins1745 in medieval times that actually is accurate. Looking really nice on the battlefield? You might have money to pay a ransom. And that might make the difference between being captured and being killed.
@@undertakernumberone1 I didnt' say "body armour". Vehicle armors too are made to avoid shot traps.
If a spear point hit any part of the fluting, is diverted where it can do the most damages, becaus the same flutings avoid it to glance off.
The Gothic style armour sometimes had a sliding rivet to give similar mobility as the leather strap.
Fluting is the fashion of the cloth garments worn by nobility, extra folds/fluting is more fabric is more wealth.
The greaves are not filtered because fashionable tight stockings are smooth
The fact that you mention the sliding rivet on gothic armor suggests that it might be more important than what metatron thinks
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it's not that the gothic cuirasse is tight, it's simply that it was never designed to be used in tandem with pasta.
Since I'm a German, I prefer the Gothic style. It looks elegant and badass at the same time. Like many other German military clothing too. 😉
German swords are awesome too In my opinion messers are among the most beautiful and functional swords I have seen
@@jacobnugent8159 And "Gassenhauer" and "Flamberger" ;)
I have reasons to like both. But I would also go with the Gothic-Style. I would say it's mostly the helmet that I like.
You'll probably find the biggest difference to be mobility in the arms and shoulders between gothic and milanese. The gothic is less protective and more mobile, especially the common floating style of arms and elbows where each piece is separate and tied to your arming coat / base garment. The milanese is more protective and, in my opinion, better suited for horseback due to the larger pauldrons and arm armor being a single solid assembly. (source: I've worn a full suit of each style)
That varies. There also were gothic arm-and shoulder plates provided full coverage.
Yep that's correct. Italians with floating elbows. The majority of Italian are articulated, and Gothic are floating. Pros and cons for each type.
One thing to add: there are depictions of Italian knights with their shoulders taken off but their arms in place fighting on foot in Fiore's manual. Knyght Errant points this out as probably a compromise to increase mobility when not charging on horseback and feeling the need for very high levels of protection.
Prefer the Gothic one. I specifically like the Lorenz Helmschmied styles of Gothic armor, the ones with less fluting. Not that I don't like fluting, but I really like the smooth look of the armor with some fluting here and there.
I personally prefer the aesthetic of the Gothic plate armour, but I still like the Italian. What is your opinion on other styles like Italian All'antica armour (both 15th and 16th century), 15th century German Kasten-brust armour (the predecessor of the Gothic stile of armour), 16ht century Maximilian armour, 16th century Italian style and others?
I like the late 14th century styles with closely fitted jupons and with the loose, wide sleeved, colourful robes (or gowns), especially with the decoratively cut dagging. I like the things they did with fabric & velvet facings on their armour through the 15th century through western Europe and some of the elaborate coats they wore over their armour. Big fan of the Central and Eastern European coats with the feathery like dagging they wore over the armour.
I like the Kasten-Brust, they look silly as hell. Especially like them without the backplate, with just long faulds or mail at the front over one of those fancy German coats.
The German stuff has that distinctive teutonic aesthetic that tickles me the right way. In terms of practicality, I doubt the difference is really that significant.
As I’m living in a historically German area (Czech Republic), I’d be wearing gothic armour which I’m absolutely ok with.
As you said, the tastes have changed. I’d always liked the Italian type and especially barbuta helmet but now it’s just meh. I have definitely become ze knight of ze Heilige Römisches Reich.
It pains me to say, but the Gothic style is my favourite. It is just so gorgeous, same for gothic architecture
Aesthetically, I like the Gothic style armour more - except for one part: the helmet. The Milanese style cross helm is way more pleasing to my eye than a Gothic style helmet that leaves the lower head completely exposed.
Late but gothic has it every time for me when it is blued and brassed, but in the white it is a far closer call
I didn't even know there was a difference before now. Very interesting your channel always teach even an avid history consumer like myself something.
Depends on the period... by the turn of 1500 German harness was such that I would prefer it every time.
But Italian harness up to about 1480 or so was usually superior in terms of protection. Fewer gaps, tighter articulation, etc.
Germans had a strong preference for floating arm harness, smaller pauldrons, shorter faulds, and sallets for a long time.
But Italian white harness had VERY few gaps, and they covered them quite obsessively with chain. They also had better helms available. The solid articulation of the arms withstood blows better than floating couters, and they regularly pinned on reinforcements to their harness against lance strikes.
I prefer the Gothic armour, I really love the elegance and sleekness, along with the fluted accents across the breast and back plates. Great Video!
American here, I like both, but I slightly prefer the Gothic style to the Italian. Both are obviously gorgeous, but I love how the fluting looks, and gothic armor seems to be generally slimmer and less bulky.
However, I'm an avid enjoyer of Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, so that might be giving me a bit of a bias there.
Finally, I can compare the two. Always leaned toward Gothic, let’s see if that changes :)
Did it change? :)
@@INSANESUICIDE Was interesting to see them compared, but I def still prefer gothic. May be open to change in the future though
The milanese style for me... and no, its not just because i am from the southern milanese area, it just looks so good.
Also, i think it would just fit extremely well if you managed to go to the blacksmith. I just like how the shoulder plates look, the chest plate and everything.
Oh, also i would totally use a spadone with it, hehehe.
I am also biased towards the Milanese style armor exactly for the reasons you stated. Plus, the pauldrons are nice decoration on their own!
Great video as always. That Milanese armour looks really really nice.
I watched a great lecture by Dr Tobias Capwell where he compared his milanese armour with is gothic set, it seems the gothic philosophy was to make a well rounded and versitile armour, whilst the Italian philosophy was to have a harness that was as protective as possible for heavy cavalry warfare, but could be configured for foot combat as heavy or even light infantry fighting.
Those are some really nice pieces of armour! Great job too!
A video about the different widespread regional armour styles of the High Middle-Ages would be pretty interesting. Comparing the Gothic and Milanese styles to other European and non-European ones. Would really like to know what is/was out there, but don't really have the time to research this myself.
No, I honestly can't decide. I like both styles. Can't even say one is more fitting for a darker setting than the other, since the more smooth style of the italian armor reminds me off early berserk and certain scenes in the later half of the Excalibur movie. I just love them both.
Personally I've always been partial to the gothic armor style but if I needed the extra maneuverability I would go for the northern Italian and now that you mention that the leather strap on the front is so difficult to damage I find out like that even more than I used to because I always thought those leather straps on the exterior were always a definite weak spot thanks for letting me know differently
I hate how movies make it seem like wearing Armor is completely useless. Swords and arrows went through like it was nothing which is so bs. lol
You are not the TH-camr I watch the most, but by far you are my favourite. Watching you is always so wholesome and just feels so fantastic (in themrs like diving into a fantasy world). You do a great job!
Milanese for the win! It looks both utilitarian and nice.
Milanese for when you're going to church. Gothic when you're going to the club.
@@scratchy996 and for battle? both lol
As I said about your former video, Gothic style wins the looks contest, but I would prefer a Milanese harness if my hide were to be protected by it.
Personally I think the Gothic style looks (slightly) better, still both are very nice 👍🏽
I like the smoothness of Italian, but the symmetry of the Gothic. I personally prefer English in the 1st half of the 15th century. A style I'd love to see recreated though is Iberian, despite the fishtail plackart and elbow/ knee fans looking a bit like fantasy spike armour.
English armour is absolutely the best. Reaching it's zenith with Henry VIII's tournament armour. Every joint covered by articulating plates, no weakpots, and prominent codpiece to house big balls.
I'm the exact opposite lol: I prefer the fluting but I love the asymmetric pauldrons.
@@EvidensInsania They have a few suits of his at the museum in Vienna. Suits made in Germany and Austria for him, from when he was a boy, teen, and adult. They are spectacular.
@@Bombur888 I like assymetric pauldrons too but in case of these two in above video, Gothic looks better
I used to like the German gothic styles of 15th century armor but i dont anymore, im more into the milanese armor now
The gothic fluting strikes me as a bit of a trade off. The fluting adds stiffness (in one direction), but also, something for blows to catch on. Again, in one direction. The fluting would, probably divert/channel strikes and stabs along the line a bit. But with the unpredictability of combat, sometimes it would certainly aid a blow not glancing off.
Which brings me to what I see as the only real downside of an external piece of leather. A stab/arrow hitting the (relatively small) patch of leather, has almost no chance of deflecting. It is a pretty small target, and of course, adds a leather layer, but really, the being cut isn't a significant downside. Even if you cuit the front and back, the top half would sit on your shoulders, and the lower on your hips. It might aid mobility.
I use armor styles most often in concept art for my games rather than as something I purchase for myself (maybe I'll be able to afford that someday), but in that context I have tried to blend different historical styles to create new cultural aesthetics, and I've had mostly positive results with that so far, though some designs have required more iterations than others.
My guess is: For stylistic comparison, the Italian, Milanese-style armour wins; whereas, for practical purposes, the German, Gothic-style armour wins. Germans are engineers, and Italians are artists, after all. 😅
I love the video man. One thing I wish you had touched on is to do with the fluting. I used to be a smith and knew a lot of armorers, and they held the contention that the flutes also serve to catch and direct blades away from critical areas. That's why you tend to see flutes terminate in the shoulders and hips, to direct thrusts and strikes around the body and mitigate the risk of them sliding up the armor into gaps, such as under the gorget or the armpits. On the same note, they did contend that the flutes had a tendency to catch blunt implements easier, capturing the strike and more of the energy in the process, but I'm unsure of any empirical testing that's been done on that principle
I like the Gothic type more.
I'm italian but that Gothic armor is just perfect, i love it.
I am glad there are different styles of armour. I like them both. And it is a hard thing to pick a favourite.
I well watch when you get the full suit for comparison. Thanks.
I love the gothic styling as it just looks so gorgeous! The one exception is that I love Milanese pauldrons. I'd love to get Milanese style pauldrons that have been styled gothic for a gothic set
I remember reading a writer in the Age of Pike and Shot (may have been Machiavelli but I could be wrong) actually commenting on the Arquebus (their words not mine) and saying how in the right hands 'it could even break the front strap of armour' which probably implies its a difficult thing to do. Thanks for helping that remark make sense.
Viking Berserker
vs
Aztec Jaguar Warrior
Having to witness both of these armors designs exist together are perfection to me IMHO. Gothic, Milanese, and even Maximillian are gorgeous too.
A great video again. The problem with your right shoulder plate occurs, because it's strip is to long. Compare it around 10:30 with the other shoulder.
Have u made a video on Roman Knights Clibanarii, Cataphracts etc? Why Romans didn't use that kind of armors ?
Hope you enjoy your time in the States. Always love seeing you clad in armor. Just looks right. I'm with the Milanese for said reasons of a lot of folks, Utilitarian look.
I am, and always will be, a sucker for gothic style plate
As someone who is rebuilding my armor I was wondering if you or anyone out there has any suggestions for period art work for ideas. The style and time period I was thinking about was the Norman conquest of southern Italy in the early 12th century. Was hoping to find the name of a few medieval effigies of Normans in Italy or Sicily to start the ball rolling. Thank you and great video. But when you finish the gothic you need to answer the real important question which does your lady like you in most.
Try to find this book in pdf format: Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era 1050-1350: Western Europe and the Crusader States by David Nicolle, it is a compendium of drawings covering most sources for what you want.
@@jean-pascalesparceil9008 Thanks that is a good start and ideas for fashion of the Courts of Southern Italy of the same time period.
i mix and match both italian and german. german chest legs bevor and sallet. Italian pauldrons gauntlets and vambraces.
A very interesting video. I'll have to think a bit more on which armour my characters will use when I work on my project. Thanks @Metatron
I love how that gothic looks on you..
Ok it's not just me... U also brought it up...
I thought it seemed very nice... I didn't realize it fit just right
Love the massive look of the Milanese. The gothic set is pretty incredible as well, though.
Farseer as in Aeldari?
@@bequakynskagroupie3751 Yes! I’m a 40k guy. I don’t play eldar but love the title.
A very informative Video Metatron. Thanks a lot for it. Although I Austrian and not italian I would prefer the italian style of armor in theory. It looks better to me. Not that the gothic style looks bad but I prefer the looks of the Milanese style. Never have worn any armor in real life though so I cannot say which one I would prefer to wear for real because i cannot tell which one would be more comfortable to wear for me. I hope this is going to change at some point in the future when I have some money left to start building my own armor. Would be really interested in doing it. Just for the looks thumps for italian. Concerning the protective value both types should do the pretty well I think.
Being from south germany, i would buy gothic but i dont prefer it to the italian style. Fluting is still popular in south germany with the barrels of hunting rifles. It gives them a premium look and due to a bigger surface makes them cool off faster.
I prefer the Milanese slightly over the Gothic but they both look pretty cool and they both look like they’d offer great protection.
I personally prefer the "simpler" more clean look of the milanese armor personally
I really like both styles although i am more into Renaissance armor starting at 1500. But soly judging from a historical perspective, Milanese armor is much more protective than gothic armor. Even guys back then admitted that, Dante Aligeri for example said that the italian knights on the battlefield were far more protected than their german counterparts. But saying this, you also have to keep in mind, that milanese armor is horse combat optimzed. It is much heavier and much more enclosing (escpecially the armet) than the gothic harnesses. So on an horse, milanese is the way to go, but on foot or when doing other warfare associated things (camping, marching etc.) gothic armor is not better in a certain way, but more comfortable to wear. So to sum up, milanese armor is outstanding on horse back, gothic armor is a jack of all trades.
I believe that German armor in the 16th century generally didn't have flutes on the greaves is because they were mimicking the fashion at the time & smooth hosiery would be on the calves. The majority of the armor was fluted to look like the common fashion of the time which had a lot of slits and pleats in the fabric.
Italian Armor. Biased also... but I just think it looks much more visually appealing.
Fascinating as always - in my opinion the Gothic armour looks fantastic and yes, it does fit you better, but I think it looks better on you too. Gothic armour FTW lol
Very interesting, thanks.
Who else but the Metatron could bring us such quality and genius content? He’s simply the best creator ever on TH-cam and we should all bow to his greatness! So bow!!! Bow before your king! Do it!
Ahah you crack me up every time the big One. Thank you Always for your nice comments and support.
Metatron, I always enjoy your content and you mediterranean passion as a neighbour. Keep up the good work. :)
... do something together with Lloyd! he has an awesome gothic harness! ( ... apart from the helmet. A classic sallet would have been so much better.) I like the gothic style best. Like Emperor Maximilian's gothic harness in the Hofjagd- und Rüstkammer in Vienna.
I also like both but the gothic style is my thing, i like how it looks less "round" and very elegant
I adore fluting.
But also, late 14th to early 15th century armor.
Chef's kiss.
@Metatron If you visit Philly, after you run up the Rocky steps at the Philadelphia museum of art, go in the building and see the Kretzschmar von Kienbusch collection of Italian and German, field, joust, and horse armor
I prefer the Gothic armour. It is so attractive and has such nice lines.
I personally think a German gothic suit of armor because of German always being known for craftmanship and just i think it looks cooler and basic stuff
You should go for full gothic set. 😎
That Milanese suit is gorgeous, but I think I prefer the less cluttered and more symmetrical Gothic style, seeing as I'm less likely to be on horseback.
That being said, I like the brigandine the most.
Specifically, fluting increases rigidity, like in a Campbell's soup can.
Which might be relevant if you are caught in the pincers of a giant enemy crab. But probably not on a medieval battlefield.
@@MinSredMash it can be relevant when you're hit by a lance... or a warhammer...
Aaaand he had to show us his Widowmaker collector's figure while educating us about beautiful armor...this guy's got real class!
I've always liked Milanese armor: it has a utilitarian look, something worn by someone who might actually end up fighting in a place where people might be shooting at him. Gothic plate is very pretty, but it also looks more like a show piece than something people would actually end up using in combat. Like, if Gothic Plate got hit by a lance, I get the feeling the damage would be much more visible, even if protection isn't affected.
The problem with fluting is that flutings are shot traps. They guide the blow against a 90° surface, where it can cause the max damage.
Why do you think so much gothic armour has survived? It's because it's users did a lot more standing around in castles looking pretty rather than actual fighting. Whereas English armour, the supreme plate armour has very few surviving examples because of all the wars it was used in.
Hi Metatron. Thanks for the video. It looks to me like the right spaulder is hanging a little lower than the left, which is why it is getting stuck on the breastplate.
Have you ever seen Tobias "Toby" Capwell's black armor?
It is amazing! I doubt I'll ever but a full harness but if I do I'll certainly be tempted to get the whatever style armor I choose in blue or black!
Capwell's armour if the undeniable proof that the English style of plate armour is the best.
I love Gothic armour because it looks like the armour some kind of badass villain would wear
I like both! And being able to see both is super cool!
But, I'm actually biased. I have learned to love the aesthetic of the first 3/4s of the fourteenth century, before the advent of full "white harness."
For the decoration i prefer the gothic armor, but for the shoulder plates i prefer the asymetrical italien version. Maybe it's because i'm half German and half Italian.
I totally prefer the German gothic armor…it is so pretty! On the other hand, I think sitting a horse will make you realize that the torsion give in your Italian Armor might be very important…
10:01 'plate likes to go inside the armor' part lol 😆. I like the appearance of the Gothic armor because I laughed at the minor technicality. But Italian is sturdier for combat definitely.
I love the gothic but I like the pauldrons of the Milanese style more
Some nice board games on your shelf there. Mysterium is a regular Christmas game for us the last few years. Memoir 41 is a clasisc game.
I personally prefer the Gothic style for the simple benefits of full body coverage and incredible body flexibility ergonomics. Some of the more personal sets can also get very creative about making sure there are no holes in the armor and keeping full or almost full mobility, and YES it looks SUPREMELY bad ass! 👍👍
I appreciate the Italian stylings and especially the rationale behind behind the asymmetry, but I just prefer the gothic. Idk if it’s a subconscious thing of it being called gothic or me being German or whatever, but I just like it
"i am Italian so i might be biased."
yep, which is why i prefer the US plate armor, with a second place going to Gothic.
Nothing beats US plate armor!
On that thought tough, the early British explorers did bring plate armor... I wonder if any of it was ever made here.
@@brandonkohler6677 i highly doubt it. at that time the plate armor was made to stop early bullets, and that required very high grade steel at the time. by the time the US steel production became good enough for armor we were well past using infantry plate armor, though we did end up using trauma plates made of steel (and the US did have some of the best).
@@jamoecw Yeah, you're probably right.
Usually i'd say German for functionality, Italian for style, but here it's like both for both.
I currently have a 14th century style harness being made. Love the look of some Gothic plate, but it's out of my present price range.
The thumbnail of this vid has got to be the best thumbnail i've ever seen.
Personally I prefer gothic one, exactly because of this badass look you mentioned. Also I love sallet for some reason.
I'd personally prefer the gothic style. I think the fluting particularily on some of the later gothic pieces is beautiful and I love the german style of gothic sallet.
Admit it! Gothic makes you look slimmer, and that's the reason why you like it as you get older ;D
Your my favorite history TH-camr but I don't know why just something about you
Thanks I appreciate!
I prefer the gothic style armor. Mainly due to the aesthetics because of the fluting and the brass accents on other examples from what I have seen. Only problem I have with the style is that the pauldrons are a bit small in my opinion ie it does not look like it gives the best coverage or protection for the shoulder area.
Looking at the pauldrons and the issues you're having with them, i think the right side pauldron is actually being held quite a lot lower and that's causing the issue with it trying to slip underneath the breastplate. If you raised it up i think it would solve the problems without you needing to do any alterations to the breastplate or its fitting.
Gothic style armor is cool