Is medieval BLACK ARMOUR better?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2024
- Blued and blacked armour was relatively popular in the late medieval period and Renaissance, but what are its strengths and drawbacks?
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#medieval #knight #armor
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If Monty Python is to be believed, it may confer increased resistance to pain.
All the ardest boys wear black.
And blood loss from multiple amputation.
Monty Python is always to be believed, It will have has been written.
Remember, Monty Python died for our sins.
@@ianchristian7949 It was JC (John Cleese) who died for our sins.
John Cleese: I'm not dead yet.
Quiet! You have joined the choir eternal.
@@silverjohn6037 I'm Dead.
Never underestimate the power of looking cool.
Must be desparate for views. This was never debated.
Lower views=dumb it down and put an idiot in it.
Or a traitor's armor.
Dark colored armor definitely looks more martial and badass. Shiny silvery armor is for storybooks and for the lady's to admire.
@@badlaamaurukehuWho let the 14 year old Reddit moderators out?
Showing wealth was Life insurance. In a pinch being worth a ransom could save your life
The greatest survival strategy in mideval battlefields was the ability to shout how high your ransom would be
Not all warfare was akin to the total warfare we're used to today. A battle was a place where powerful men sorted out disagreements in order to make new alliances in the future. It wasn't about winning for the sake of winning like warfare is done today. The way you dressed was your way of signalling to the other side, and to your own side, what kind of person you are and thus what type of outcome you would prefer. How long your side fought was your way of signalling how serious you were. Wearing shiny armor signaled that you care more about how things look or can be retold than the material outcomes of a battle. That showed the other side that you could be placated by agreements that made you look better on paper. Wearing black armor showed that you're practical and efficient and thus you will be more willing to gain a beneficial practical outcome to a battle even if its comes at the expense of your image.
To understand the world in the past and present, you need to see what's being signaled by clothing styles and behavior. Its about saying who you are and what you want without openly saying it. Its also about saying it to everyone when words can be altered depending on with whom one is conversing at the moment.
Perhaps it was life insurance in small local battles but not really in large wars. For example after learning crusaders executed Turkish prisoners Sultan Beyazid ordered all crusader prisoners to be executed as well. They used a known knight to identify nobles for ransom then nailed a 1.60 stick to the ground. Anybody taller than the stick was decided as an adult and sent to chopping block..
And or it makes you look like a cash cow for opportunistic enemies
@@ryelor123
Uh. While most of what you claim is true or probably so, I wouldn’t say that battles weren’t fought for victory because they absolutely were Warfare was as you said a method of settling dispute and in fact it still is : the winner is one who wins the dispute and gain something in the equation, may it be prestige, more lands or wealth
Considering the loser would either be at the mercy of his foe or, should he have retreated succesfully, have to concede something of importance to the victor, winning was indeed the goal
He neglected to mention the chief true advantage of blackened armor..."The Black Knight always triumphs!"
“Evil will always triumph because good is dumb!”
-Dark Helmet
The black Knight was always defeated in the end by the hero.
This reminds me of a old joke/tale here in italy, usually told in dialect.
It kind of goes like this:
*Guy1 telling the tale*
Once upon a time there were two knights, a black knight, a white knight.
The white Knight challenged the black one.
The black one managed to kill him.
Now, the white knight had 3 sons and all 3 decided to avenge their father so they challenged the black knight.
But the black knight was so badass he defeated all 3 of them together!
Now, those 3 sons had also 3 sons each so all 9 decided to challenge the black knight as well.
But the black knight was so badass he still managed to defeat all 9 of them together!
Now the sons' sons had also 3 sons each, so all 27-
*Guy2 interrupting*
Ok I get it, but what's the moral of the story?
*Guy1 telling the story*
DON'T YOU "FUCKING BOTHER/BE A PAIN IN THE ASS TO" THE BLACK KNIGHT!!!!
@@lupinthethird7059Like the classic: He who shits in the fountain drinks the same water?
And even when they lose, it's a draw
Yes because black armor with brass highlights simply looks amazing
You could use brass to show where you had been hit and survived.
Better than cleaning and polishing out the scores.
Mine is black with bronzed rivets and looks way cool!!
Get some black lacquer paint on there.
Bronze over brass, any day.
Black plate gold trim set 1200gp
Wearing such beautiful armour is a reminder that none shall pass.
With one you only get flesh wounds
Except flatulence
And you will always triumph! Or at least get a draw.
I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
@@boejiden1942 who made you king?
Another advantage of blackened armour is its slimming effect. After all, it is very important to remain stylish on the battlefield.
Without any historical evidence I think that black armour would be favoured by the young ones who wanted to make a name for themselves.
I am not just thinking of the Prince known as The Black Knight. Any who can afford it and want the ladies to know how good they are.
There would be many sword scars but each one is an opportunity to add a line of decoration hammered in.
Totally dude. It's all about style. Live fast, die young, and leave a good looking corpse!!
This isn't entirely untrue. Well fitting, colored armor suggests wealth, and wealth means you're more likely to end up as a hostage than dead. Good armor, aside from being literal armor, would also be a life insurance policy
Good points.
Look good you fight good 😊
I'm not a chemist, but I know a bit of the science behind it.
Iron has a couple common ions +2 and +3, I believe). Magnetite and rust are the two most common oxides of iron. Rust expands when it forms, which weakens the metal and causes it to flake off. Magnetite does not.
When you blue steel, you're converting the outside into magnetite, which is mostly done for aesthetics, but does offer added rust/scratch resistance.
It's worth noting that cold bluing (the paste you mentioned) doesn't create a very deep or protective finish, so it's best used for touching up a damaged finish.
As I understand it, historically it was done by burning pitch onto armor, and largely by less-affluent knights to reduce the necessary maintenance for their armor.
+2 or +3 armor, got it.
Linseed oil works too, it gives a more blueish color. At least with the temperatures I could reach with my cheap blowtorch. And it rubbed off over time (I blued a ring I wear daily)
Though I've only done this with nalbinding needles on a gas stove, is that related to the blue that steel turns when heated sufficiently, to like, 600 or so degrees Fahrenheit?
@@Ensensu2 As far as I know, it's similar. The principle is heating steel and rapidly exposing it to air to make it rust quickly. However, the flame of an oxygen torch or gas torch doesn't uniformly reach the entire surface and the temperature might be too high, which can affect the steel's treatment. That's why the method of briefly dipping steel in hot oil or a hot liquid chemical is mainly used.
Maybe scratch resistance could make glancing more likely.
Regarding heat and black armour: The people who did do the research were the gentlemen involved in making air-cooled cylinders, originally on aero-engines but adopted by British motorcycle manufacturers. They found that blackened metal loses heat faster than unfinished metal, both with steel and aluminium and even when that blackening agent is a film of paint. So, going by that, black armour should heat up in the sun quicker, but at the same time any good absorber of radiation is also a good radiator, so it'll cool down quicker too. That's all based on reading in old books, though, and experience has taught me that old books sometimes contain old bollocks, so bear that in mind.
the peak temperature should be the same either way. if left exposed to sunlight for a long time, it will probably not make much difference.
Black is the color to shed heat, but the scaling isn't right for the application.
Desert outerwear, though, has potential.
Iirc, the inverse is why polar clothes are white, to limit the thermal loss
That's why only idiots makes shiny car bottoms.
White uniforms nowadays are generally worn to keep the wearer from getting shot.
I used to wear black armour (helm and cuirass) for English Civil War battles, and can confirm that heat was not really an issue even on a hot summer day. Mostly the wool and linen soldier's jacket I wore underneath it was what trapped the heat and this happened even if you wore no armour, or had "silvery" polished steel. Going in just your shirt-sleeves with the armour was much cooler (heat-wise) but then the armour chafes more, and you have significantly less overall protection (always wear your soldiers' jacket and make sure you take water bottles in your side-pouches - a 2 hour battle can be quite gruelling!!). The metal armour re-radiated the heat esp. since black emits the heat just as readily as it absorbs it.
Till ten years ago I did a lot of Napoleonic and medieval reenactment. A friend of mine was an archer and was a very, very proud owner of a shiny, blued armour. You was even not allowed to point at it... So on the evening before he got married his house burned down. All he could save was his bride. Only his armour survived intact...however the chlorine fumes of the burning carpets in his house totally rusted the exposed surfaces in a very, very corroded and pitted way. Parts of the armour that were covered by other stuff were still shiny blue. We ended up painting the whole thing black...
Did you burn it down?
Matt's really trying to sell his armor, eh? Made an entire video to hype it up 🤣
Bro what I would do to have a shed full of swords and multiple armour pieces he’s living the dream well earned too
I like the idea until I think of all the time I'd have to spend maintaining them...
@@Robert399 you aren’t wrong tbf it’s a lot of blood sweat and tears maintain them to a good standard big responsibility but a massive privilege
The blackened armor will absorb heat faster than the bright armor; BUT it will shed heat faster. That's why the SR-71 was painted black. The engineers who worked on it discovered that, while light colors reflected heat they also retained that heat, whereas black absorbed heat quickly, it also shed it just as quickly.
might be why Bedouin robes are black
In Florida you can cook eggs on black armor, and bright armor you need sun glasses to look at it.
the break even point for black body radiation (what you're talking about) outweighing reflection doesn't happen until temperatures where you would be very, very dead
The SR-71 was not painted, but was built from titanium, a fairly black metal with better high temperature strength than iron or aluminum (common aircraft metals).
@@davidweihe6052 That's funny, all the titanium I've ever handled looked very similar to brushed aluminum.
Yes, the SR-71 was definitely painted matte black.
I’m reading Ian Mortimers book “1415 - Henry V’s Year of Glory” at the moment, and it covers the preparations of the French forces in Paris as the Burgundian Duke John the Fearless approached with his men. He says: “ … the provost of the merchants had prepared four thousand black padded jackets and four thousand axes with blackened blades …”. This was so they could kill the Burgundians without being seen if they tried to enter the city at night …
So it did improve night fighting (excuse the pun)? Was this a period or secondary source?
@@windalfalatar333 😄 It seems to be from a secondary source, Mortimer footnotes it as coming from page 209 of "John the Fearless: the Growth of Burgundian Power (1966)" by Richard Vaughan. I'm afraid I don't have that book, and am uncertain of Vaughan's source, but if anyone does please let us know!
By lucky chance, that page is available on Google Books! It is ultimately from a primary source, the “History of Charles VI” by Juvenal des Ursins. Vaughan includes more of the original text, where it begins with “It was rumoured”. Whether or not it was actually done I guess we’ll never know, but Juevenal lived through this period and was the son of a provost of the merchants of Paris (according to Wikipedia!), so was in a good position to be in the know. A literal ‘black op’ would be kept under wraps.
@@russellgant9001 So black equipment was being used for the sort of Spetznaz/SAS/Delta Force of the day, or at least by people who had commando style tactics in mind. Extremely interesting!!
@@windalfalatar333 It is interesting! On re-reading that snippet I'm getting the feeling that the 'ninja axemen' were primarily intended to execute any potential Burgundians or sympathisers already living in Paris in the event of an attack by John, which makes them even more sinister!
My house fire illustrated the protective value of blackening.
There was a dagger setting on a counter in my bedroom right under a skylight. The firefighters broke that to let smoke out, which drew a lot of the nasty chemical smoke from burning plastics and foams and fiberglass through there. I had made this dagger to have a polished blade and guard. Not highly polished, to 2000 or 3000, but I had blackened the guard. The method I had used was to get it to below glowing heat, not even a dull red, and 'paint' it with soybean oil, repeating this quite a few times. Yes, the same way you'd blacken a new cooking pan.
Well the smoke, steam, and firefighting chemicals turned the blade a most vivid orange while the blackened guard was perfectly fine besides the layer of soot on one side. Truly remarkable.
However, I had a sword near it that also had a blackened guard but faired much, much worse. I had blackened that one simply by bringing it to a dull red several times. It was not a polished surface first. The blade faired better because it was in a wooden (and linseed oiled) scabbard but the guard has some deep dark red rust now. (Most of the surfaces also were coated in linseed oil as my go to protectant.)
So there is one more anecdote around black oxides protecting from other oxidation.
Do you have a picture of the dagger? That seems super neat!
I live on a boat. My swords and knives are constantly trying to rust, but my blackened great helm never does...
Thus, for raiders living on boats, or anyone living somewhere rainy/humid blackened armor and weapons makes a lot of sense
Darkened armor would stand out a lot in a pack of silvery armor men. As your said, it might be a status thing, but the first idea that sprung into my mind was identification. It might make it easier to "locate the boss, keep close to him, protect him", or "follow your commander in battle". Bonus effect if there is another color on top of it (fancy plumes, golden stuff). On the flipside, it might attract the attention of plenty of enemy crossbowmen...
That's along the lines of what I was thinking, and I wonder if it wouldn't have been popular among mercenaries. People with the money for good armor who know it doesn't rust as bad, and bonus, you've now got the branding of armor that stands out.
You looked ferocious in that harness and it's a damn shame you're wanting to sell it.
Kinda makes one wonder what he is upgrading to ....
@@tonydalimata Completely gilded armour, from dark to outshining the sun!
As a physicist, I would expect blackened armor to be worse than polished steel, heat-wise, but that it wouldn't really matter. Radiative cooling is pretty poor, which is why we make thermoses with a vacuum cavity between the inside wall with your beverage and the outer wall connected to the environment -- no material in the cavity forces heat to happen only as radiation, not conduction or convection. The bigger effect for armor is the creation of air pockets. This is why multiple pane windows exist, igloos and snow caves can stay warm (the ice/snow has air in it, you would not want it to be completely compacted as purely solid H2O), and jackets/sweaters/gambesons keep us so warm. The harness plus whatever you have on underneath that is able to trap air and keep it from convecting away from the body is going to be the bigger contributor to deciding the equilibrium temperature; which matches with Matt's experience. I wouldn't be surprised if a person can tell the difference in temperature if they wear exactly the same armor and padding with the only difference being blackening. After all, you certainly can feel the difference when you swap a white shirt for a black shirt. However, I doubt it would be a substantial change given how much else you are wearing. It would be more like swapping a white parka for a black parka -- sure, you'll be warmer in the black parka and might even notice it on a hot, sunny day, but is that the difference between hypothermia and survival? Probably not.
One caveat is this is all discussing visible light, and I don't know how much the emissivity and albedo of steel may be changing in the infrared with polished to blackened steel. I'd guess it's not that much since steel isn't transparent in either frequency range (unlike glass that is transparent in visible but opaque in infrared), so the small change in albedo from the color change is probably as small as you'd expect it be from visible light alone.
I would imagine the difference is negligible and probably not noticeable, given how hot one gets while wearing any full set of armor.
The way I see it, the color only affects how much the armor plating can absorb heat from the outside while our problem is actually about dissipating heat from the body.
You will most likely be wearing an insulating layer between your body and the armor, so heat doesn't very effectively conduct either from the body to the armor or from the armor to the body. It's not airtight all around either, so you probably won't get the same effect as in let's say a black car standing in the sun, where the inside air just keeps getting hotter and can get much hotter than the outside air. If by just moving around, the air in the pockets between the armor and whatever you wear under it gets pushed out and replaced by outside air, then the armor plates themselves don't really even get to play much of a part in the heat exchange.
Another thing, this black finish still looks very shiny and reflective unlike let's say black clothes or black paint. Could it be that it appears black just because of all the colors getting mixed up and reflected as white light instead of acting more like a mirror?
None has mentioned the cooling effect of black body radiation, an effect that was known in period
@@mitcharcher7528 Quite possibly. I wouldn't be surprised if the change is too small to notice, but if you told me you could, I wouldn't be surprised either. People can be quite sensitive to changes, particularly in familiar environments and when they are looking for them.
@@romaliop For the shininess, we've got two things happening: one is the shine which is a surface effect, the other is the blackness which is a body effect. That is, for any object, when light hits it, two things happen: some light is reflected off of a surface and the rest gets transmitted through. The transmitted light may get absorbed and re-emitted outwards, re-emitted randomly (including in directions further inwards) or may be lost as the atoms don't de-excite but instead collide and transfer the absorbed radiant energy into kinetic energy. So a shiny black object is one with a high reflective index that also one with a high absorption that extinguishes the absorbed light. The coating or crystal state that makes the metal black could be reducing the reflectivity of the metal, but it's still comparable to the polished steel, so we're really changing the absorptive aspect of the metal.
"+Stealth at Night Armour"??? Take my Money Sir, this will go splendidly with my Bagpipes of Invisibility. Can't see anything possibly going wrong with that.
I'm curious as to how common painting armor was in Europe. It's reminiscent of lacquering samurai armor, because Japanese summers are dreadfully humid. A similar method of purposeful oxidization they used is called "sabitsuke", which was, and still is, often used to darken tsuba.
It was pretty common, and there are some great examples remaining.
Knyght Errant talked about it a bit in the video (about two minutes in):
m.th-cam.com/video/rdI6PoJXmZg/w-d-xo.html
I don't have experience with blued armor, but with carbon steel knives, the patina is a real bear to work with because if it gets rusty (and it often does), then you have to polish it off with steel wool, and that leaves a silvery spot with neither rust nor patina. Then you got to re-patina it with some vinegar or lemon juice soaked onto a towel.
I imagine that if you have a squire to polish your armor constantly, then a burnished silver look would be the easiest to work with. I doubt they had people to re-apply the patina constantly back then.
I have the exact opposite experience and am confused how your experience could happen, not to say I doubt your experiences with your own knives. Well aged knives with heavy patinas I own require far less oiling and care than others I have without a patina, which makes sense considering as is said in the video, patinas both historically and in the modern day are used to prevent rust.
@@applepiesapricots3109 I'm referring to kitchen knives.
I suspect you're referring to EDC knives. For those, yeah, that patina is usually going to be enough. Kitchen knives are more exposed, more akin to what armor goes through: wet for long periods of time, salt, acid etc.
If a natural patina is really all you need to prevent rust, then we wouldn't need stainless steel, would we?
@@theredbar-cross8515 No, I am referring to kitchen knives as well. There is a middle ground between "rust proof" and "not rust proof", in which blued steel and patinas stand, as well as most stainless steels technically as most can still rust under the right conditions, with the exclusion of cutting edge steels that use nitrogen instead of carbon. Stainless steels, bluing, and patinas all use the same physical mechanism to prevent corrosion -- forming a thin impermeable layer on the steel. In stainless's case, it's usually a thin layer of chromium that is sacrificially oxidized every time new material is scratched. In a patina's case, it is a layer of nonmagnetic magnetite. A chemical blue can be any number of things such as a copper selenide.
As I said before, I do not doubt your personal experiences, but do find them curiously in contrast to what I've seen some chefs say, some bushcraft people say, some blacksmiths say, some historians say, some gunsmiths say, some machinists say and what I've personally experienced in kitchen knives, wood axes, woodworking tools, etc.
The rust protection alone would be huge, especially when campaigning in damp climates. Even in summer, when marching through Britain or continental Europe, you're going to get rained on quite a bit. The less maintenance intensive your armour is, the better. And lets face it, it does look pretty bad ass!
sounds like an interesting test.
Blackened and polished vs Polished, vs White painted helmet
Testing for:
- temperature in sunlight
- rusting
- scratch damage
Yeah... not gonna be very positive. No wonder mostly kings used it. It's not just the cost, it's that they weren't gonna be moving much anyway 😂
A lot of historical pieces of armor were often painted to help curtail rust and corrosion from forming on its surface. I think that over time this paint would wear off and museums would remove the paint to restore and preserve the armor.
I like your videos a lot, Matt. You know a lot of stuff, you understand how complex things are, and you bring stuff at a correct pace to your audience. You don't rush things, nor embellish them and your show or whatever. It's simply just straightforward talking based on humble reflections of objective things and aspects of historical elements in your concerns. It gets light and relaxing on this very politicized and competitive environment we have today. Keep up like this.
Regards!
I really can't wait to hear about these new armor sets you're working on. So cool.
I do SCA fighting, and I can confirm that rust on mild steel is SUCH a pain! My legs are the only part I have to worry about and I'm already looking to replace them haha
If you use steel wool,
Scrub the rust off then try a lemon juice or vinegar wipe. It should blue it a little bit and help protect it some against rust.
The good old fashioned on that one is vinegar and coarse sand. Sand to act as a light abrasive and clean off the metal without scratching it, vinegar to loosen the oxide and keep it off.
I chemically blue/blacken most of the blades i make.
I chemically castrated my bollocks knife
I'm weirdly hyped over your new armour. Like I actually thought about at lunch today after seeing the community post yesterday(?). lmao
youre fun to listen to.
i also like the lack of jump cuts in your video, unlike a lot of youtubers who have a jump cut at the end of every sentence
0:30 Shoutout to my dude, Zack. Rockin' that banner.
I do firearms finish work and has many parallels with the finished talked about in the video. One thing I'd like to note is a method used called "rust blue". Most bluing/blackening these days are done by chemicals, but long before nitre salt a common practice was applying lemon juice/salt/water mixture over the steel to allow it to rust then boiling it in rain water. The deionized water converts the FE2O3 into FE3O4 and causes a dark blue to form. The loose material is brushed off with a fine steel bristle brush and then the process is repeated over and over until the color desired is achieved. Boiling rusted parts in rain water will have a similar effect of neutralizing the rust and help protect the parts. I've done a few Colt pistols this way with excellent results.
man you live the life keep up the awesome work!
My favorite armor is the 3/4 suits of the German "Black Riders," so named for their black or mostly black armor.
You've probably never heard of, Zawisza the Black of Garbów, of Sulima coat of arms (c. 1379 - 12 June 1428).
But you certainly know the Monty Python sketch where the sentence "The Black Knight always triumphs!"
Zawisza (zah-vee-sha) was Polish knight, nobleman, commander and diplomat. His nickname came from his custom-made, black armor he wore only when fighting against Christians; when he fought against the Ottomans, he wore shiny, mirror armor.
During his life, he was regarded as a model of knightly virtues and was renowned for winning multiple tournaments, he was known for his swordsmanship, pain tolerance and steadfastness, known as impossible to defeat in an equal fight, may have had a hand in popularizing black armor and also associating it with being invincible.
So, who knows, maybe even the Monthy Python sketch/joke about the Black Knight has this background? ;-)
i absolutely LOVE that helmet design, its gorgeous~
Thanks for the information in this video ⚔️ the black armor does look nice. I know you're a new set will be good as well 👍🏻
Didn't need 20 minutes for this, looks cool, done
The AD&D2E Arms and Equipment Guide said that dwarven leaders preferred to use black forged iron platemail. I'm curious about the look of blackened plate over silvery mail.
i had heard of some of those same drawbacks and still would have chosen black armor just because black knights are turbo awesome
Attention from the ladies.
What did Sir Lanchelot wear?
Very interesting, I've used the gun blacking chemical on vintage blades and axes when renovating them, it looks pretty good - but I'll mirror what you said, it looks different on a variety of steels, even on the same axe it would shade differently on various areas (obviously axes can contain different steels as a norm)
I wonder if it might be more difficult to track movements of someone in black armor compared to light colors. Some black things often appear as just as black blobs especially on quick glance.
I would think it would be easier to see the volumes as the reflections stand out more
With black armor you could get this famous name like Zawisza Czarny (Zawisza the Black)
He was called "Black" because of his hair color.
The main thing I like about black armour is how it makes guilding pop. I prefer silvery steel for plain metal, but if you're going to put silver or gold details on plate, the black provides such a great contrast. I've loved the look since I saw a beautiful suit on display at the Royal Ontario Museum as a kid.
Blued steel is my favorite look on armor and swords. The wear and tear on it looks awesome.
Blue steel?
👁️ 👄 👁️
I've enjoyed watching you at Tewkesbury the past few years, picking you out in your blackened armour ⚔️ A York, a York!
11:15 That certainly sound plausible, although didn't Edward the Black Prince wear black armour? That doesn't disprove the idea in general but it means black armour can't have been a complete faux pas.
I remember seeing a piece about desert nomads wearing black robes in the desert. It turns out that it does not make them hotter. I don't remember the reason why, but wearing a black robe in the full sun has advantages. I think the same probably applies to black armor as well. This was an interesting video. I'm impressed at the durability of the finish on your armor! My experience with firearms made me think it would be more like some bluing on guns; where even touching it can cause corrosion.
The darker fabrics are better at absorbing UV, protecting you from sunburn.
Intimidation?
Speaking of patina on steel, have any of you fellow antique sword enthusiasts noticed that different makers' swords tend to patina in distinct/recognizable ways? It's possible I'm imagining it, but it would make sense that 18th/early 19th century steel and methods would vary from maker to maker in consistent ways....Prosser blades and early Wilkinson blades look very different from each other but similar to other examples from the same maker! Once you introduce homogenous (modern) steel, the chrome and nickel-plating types used also seem to patina distinctly as well.....
17:17 black was not only a fairly expensive pigment for cloth coloring, the coloring process needed to be longer for saturation and was therefore more straining on the cloth. Black clothing needed to be repaired and replaced much more often than any other color, adding to the cost
What you say about dampness in Medieval houses and castles is very true. A common home would of course have a hearth but that heat would not necessarily reach all corners of the house, and a castle would have many rooms, with the armour probably stored in an unheated room. To prevent armour from rusting they might have oiled it very well and then wrapped in oily linen - and the chests in which they were stored also oiled or painted to prevent wood rot and mold. Surely people knew how to treat their stuff. Some cities even have ordinances for their citizens to have a minimum of armour, and they had occassional check-ups from a committee to see if the armour was kept in a good state and not be pawned off, on punishment of hefty fines.
What you gotta remember is that not all armour was high-end full plate tailor-made to the wearer, a lot of it, or rather the majority of it was sold in bulk and therefore most likely didn't have a polish of any kind, because polishing back then increased the price significantly, despite the fact that water-powered wheels automated the process somewhat. So it's safe to assume that most armour wasn't polished, but rather black straight from the forge or painted/coated.
I have an English civil war cuirass and morion which I used for re-enactments. I bought them 2nd-hand and were rusty when I bought them, so I painted them with satin black hammerite and then painted all the rivets in a bronze colour. It no longer rusts and looks freakin' awesome! Heat on a hot summer day is not really an issue. I was the company Ensign (so my character would have had a better salary than the common soldiery) so standing out from the crowd wasn't an issue either since I was up front and centre waving a big flag anyway and my job was to be noticed (as well as fighting).
The first thing that comes to mind for me is potentially being more difficult to see at a glance where the creases are in the armour and where the armour ends vs. highly polished silver finish, the black armour looking more like a single silhouette against whatever is worn underneath. I would imagine it would make it more difficult on a battlefield where everyone is tired (and possibly drunk) for an attacker to thrust around the armour or at its creases where it's the weakest.
Congrats Mat, that Landsknechte costume armor is going to look great on you
I have a cool officer 1796 LC sabre that's totally blackened with chemical gun bluing (a very shiny, glossy dark grey). It just looks very unique.
I really hope its Matt Easton the next time, quite fond of the guy if I may say so.
what I've been wondering about is case-hardening the steel plates in brigantine. Tod from Tod's Workshop did a video showing brigantine was not very effective at stopping arrows and bolts, but his armor targets weren't hardened and that technology was widely available. Bluing and the like would be great for warding off rust, but it wouldn't really add effectiveness as a protective layer.
style is key
A knight spends most of his time at peace so reputation is key
I don't have a copy of it to hand, but in Tacitus's Germania he describes a lot of the German tribes having wildly individual artwork on their shields, except for one bunch whose shields were all painted black. Imagine the fear they must've inspired in their neighbours. You could extend this to a medieval army. A mercenary outfit who solely wore blackened armour without ornamentation would be most unusual and remarked on, expanding thier reputation.
5 minutes of practical experience is worth more than 5 years of commentary by experts without any first hand experience.
I'd love a video about russeting armor!
The Milanese armors, possibly worn at Patay, were said to have breastplates of blue color, a result of a case hardening process on the iron or low carbon steel plate used. They were famously arrow proof, although it appears that the real reason that the British were so badly beaten is because of the shock tactics employed by the French vanguard which caught the English archers before they could complete preparation of their fighting position with stakes. The armored cavalry rode them down and killed as many as 2500 of them; archers were never intended to stand against heavy cavalry, they were supposed to be used in a combined arms system where they disrupted an enemy charge and supported the infantry with flank fires.
Oil blackening of steel has been about since steel was invented. It is easy to do and offers a degree of corrosion protection similar to painting. Any oil can work but vegetable oil is generally better. A badly scuffed helmet after a dent is beaten out can be reblackened in a campfire without ruining the temper. Any century old engineering handbook will give details on the various methods.
Imagine using modern coatings and having earth toned armor for skirmishes in forested areas. A nice camouflage made of OD green, Flat Dark Earth, and some shade of brown Cerakote covering the armor. An additional benefit is it's excellent rust protection.
Black Armour was a common among nercenary cavalry in the early modern era in Central Europe.
This "Schwarze Reiter" ( translation Black Riders) even got their name from their armour.
The other advantage of Black Armour is the psychic Impact if used collectively.
Everyone is wearing bright armour (nobility) or flashing colours (Landsknecht) but this one group is all black (Schwarze Reiter)
The example is from the 16th century.
In Hungary, a whole army was called black:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Army_of_Hungary
Everyone knows Silver armor = Good knights , Black Armor = Bad knights.. well at lease thats what they say in the movies.
black absorbs heat faster, but it also dissipates it faster. white absorbs it slower, but it also dissipates it slower, same thing for highly polished steel. maybe it helped especially if there was wind in those hot summer days you were fighting in. I remember someone made a video about this sort of thing a while ago.
For what i learned, medieval blackened armor or even dark blue armor had its colour by mixing carbon from coal that gave more flexibility making harder having fiber texture would move during impact, but not breaking and well tempered steel specially from a renowned armorsmith like well known Millanese and Nurembergians, would have best qualities, as darkened colour in armor made cheaper, kings would ask for carving royal house tapestry parts to be well recognized even in battlefield by nobles and kings.
the most rudimentary form of "blackening steel"/ "bluing" is repeated boiling oil dipping till a satin black color is present on the steel/iron etc. not sure if true but I've heard stories of those in "black armor" most likely being the oil dipped satin armor back then most likely being expensive or shown to represent difference/ not regular, some used this as a tactic in battle/ war to convey that they stood out among others for better or worse or to tell who's who on the field of battle
a rust protectant spray paint then I took some green and blue and it came out with this vein pattern that is really awesome I didn't even mean to do it
Cat urine gives steel the most incredible neon blue patina-would be hilarious to see an armor done with the technique (see nekonoshoben knife patina)
12:33 - "Ballistol" - C&Rsenal approves this product !
Now I want a set matte black armor
I have seen a video about the german black rider's. There they said that black armor was a much cheaper solution than high quality stainless steel.
Probably has been mentioned already at this point, but steel blue-ing is also often used to make parts more scratch and wear resistent, as the oxide layer has a much higher hardness then regular steel. As the oxide layer is extremely thin, this would probably not help to stop a sword or arrow, but certainly helps to maintain that glossy finish in another way besides rust protection, and slows down wear between moving parts.
I’m nearly 17 right now. I really hope that some day I’ll be in a good enough position to have such awesome armor
It would be cool to see people in blackened and silver armor next to eachother at night to say if there is any advantage in comoflage. Pure darkness, moonlight torch/candle light. Granted, it would require a good low-light camera to demonstrate the results.
I looove me a good ole patina!
* fondles Boker Atlas Brass with brass bead on the lanyard *
Advantage of Blackened Armor: Nobles steer clear of you.
Disadvantage of Blackened Armor: Guards tend to pull you over more.
@scholagladiatoria If I remember correctly, you talked a bit here and there about the videgame Kingdom Come Deliverance. Part two has been announced for release later this year. Will you have a look at it, and give us your two Cents about it?
First thing I can think of for black armor is that it might not get or show dye or tanning agents from cloth or leather that the armor was in contact with on it where a shiny silver armor might, and maybe less reflected glare into your own eyes from your armor.
Black Armor looks cool.
Discussion done.
If I remember right in Hema black armour particularly a black helmet signifies a Maester someone who has devoted years to training and is deemed fit to train others
That armor looks amazing 🥹
There is also worth mentioning that iron has two common oxides, iron(III) oxide and iron(II,III) oxide. The former is rust, red and very detrimental, and the latter is black. At room temperature and in the presence of humidity, most iron wilk just become rust, but HOW the oxidation occurs can be changed, and as explained, both heat and chemical reagents can force the formation of other non-rust oxides that function like a glaze or ceramic coating and that are actually protective to the metal.
No mention of browning iron and steel. [I pretty sure it's called browning in English, but I can't find any mention of the process in English, with a Google search, but plenty of in mentions in other languages.]
Browning was for centuries the standard treatment in Sweden to avoid rust on cannons and firearms. You can hardly find a Swedish made cannon that hasn't been (originally) browned, not browning cannons only happened when the production was rushed (then the much faster, but less good, methods of blackenig or bluening could be used instead). It was also done to most ax heads, and some other kinds of tools and blades, in non military use. I know browned cannons and other equipment, was sometimes confused with equipment made of copper, by people from some countries, so the process might not have been as common outside Scandinavia and the northern Slavic regions of Europe.
I've read of occasions when plate armour (intended to go into long time storage) was also browned at production. Can't remember the sources (30-40 years has passed since I was interested in that kind of stuff).
What it is, is a thick, highly pollished, non poruos, brown/redish, rust layer. It will protect perfectly for centuries, and is very durable during use (the surface inside the cannon continuously get polished by the explosions and cannonballs, so it will only get better with use).
There are three main methods.
First you roughen the surface. Then you can either treat it with chemicals ("brunering" in Swedish); or treat it with steam ("brungöring" in Swedish); or you can burry the part in the right kind of soil. Then you polish the surfaces to a shine, sometimes with fat. All the processes takes months or years to achieve. The processes with chemicals and steam, was very labour intensive and costly, and was done professionally, burrying in the ground was done by the end users themselves, after they had bought a new axhead or tool (it didn't require a lot of labour, just waiting for a couple of years).
Important to note that many chemical bluing agents run off mirror polishes without doing anything IME.
Looking cool gives a big confidence buff, and a confident fighter is a strong fighter
according to what they told me (source Stibbert armor museum in Florence) it actually existed an Italian leader of the 16th century, Giovanni delle Bande Nere, whose army carried black insignia and flags, for a Pope's mourning, and he had his armor darkened and ordered the armor for his army to be darkened, because he carried out night raids and one of these was against the famous knight bayard.
The blackened armour might actually be more comfortable in hot sun.
What people forget is that black objects both absorb and radiate heat more efficiently, meaning that they also cool down faster. Thus, if we have a situation where heat transfer is more efficient on the inside, say by having a bunch of moisture doing the transferring, it might radiate more heat out than it absorbs from the sun. It's also the case that the armour radiates heat in all directions, but it mainly absorbs heat from the direction of the sun. So if you increase the rate at which the armour absorbs/radiates, it's entirely possible that the net effect will be that it cools you down better.
I can't be certain that's how it shakes out, but it's certainly a possibility.
Can you do a video on how you store your armor? Just curious....
Did earlier armor before plate, be it chain, lamellar, segmented or what-have-you get blackened as well?
Since it's chemically blackened, would even blackened chainmail work, or would the rubbing of the links just remove the color over time?
Would heat blackening work better/worse?
Man, I wish I was the right size where that black armor would have a chance to fit.
The Nova episode had a thing about changing armor color with heat.
One advantage of samurai armor i always liked is the laquering. Less rust the better it also looks cool
have you done a video talking about all the details of your current armour? might be an idea before you sell it?
I think I have seen the Yorks, especially Edward the 4th be depicted in black armour while the lancasters are shwon in more steel/silve armour. But this might be a things based on Shakespears plays about the War of the Roses as propaganda for the queen at the time using the colour black as a pointer the unjust and vicious, coining perhaps the idea of the "Black Knight". But I have no proof what so ever for this. But it seems believable to me. Would be interested to see how shakespear describes them.
And personally the white york rose on black armour looks cool.