Awesome video, we took this a step further. You can set your Alexa routing so that any alarm set will trigger the pump. We use a tankless and it takes about 2:15 to get the system all the way up to temperature. The effect is by the time you acknowledge the alarm and get to the shower, it is ready to go. Have fun with that if you try it. We also have our bathroom timer fans set to trigger it as well. We turn the fan on in the evening when our kids are prepping for bed and the shower is hot by the time they go to use it.
@@danschaller1628 with the automation intelligence we can avoid a lot of CO2 emissions. Normally people use the toilet 🚽 half an hour before showers 🚿, I re-route the pipes with electric valves and Alexa so the toilet 🚽 is filled with the cold water standing in the hot water pipes. Once the toilet 🚽 receives hot water, the pipes are re-routed to their normal configuration. Then you have instant hot water at the shower. No pump ⚙️ needed. I read the idea from a gentleman in Australia 🇦🇺. Using Alexa to make the system more effective was my addition to his idea.
I have a Grundfos recirculating pump that was installed in 2005. It was original construction so I have the dedicated line. It must make a difference because I have instantaneous hot water so I don’t have to “preheat” it. I have an analog timer that is sooooo outdated. I am surprised Grundfos doesn’t have a phone app to control the system. I too run the system with a smart plug (Kasa). I don’t have the auto shut-off so I may look into the Wyze. As far as electricity usage goes, Grundfos claims it uses the same amount of electricity as a 25 watt light bulb (yes it’s more than most LED bulbs but far less electricity usage than some people realize although I would never let it run all the time).
@@westfield90 Without being an expert, I would suggest that it is a small consideration since it isn’t exactly “cold” water being sent back to the water heater, it’s just colder than the valve’s minimum temp to stay closed. It would therefore take less energy to reheat than the actually cold new water from the municipal supply or a well.
My setup looks exactly just like yours. I also timed mine and it takes around 40 seconds without pump and 30+ seconds with pump in a low flow shower head where the valve is not installed, only saving a mere 10 seconds. i run the pump about 15 to 30 minutes before i shower. doesnt seem to make much of a difference. what am i doing wrong? do i need to install a second valve in the master bathroom where i take a shower?
If you live in an older home with multiple remodels, and you are not certain which fixture is the furthest from the water heater.... can you guess? Or, can you place multiple sensors?
_Can you use the timer Plug and the Wyze Plug at the same time? The timer is programmed for a certain time every day Wyze Plug for time outside of that schedule (when the timer is off) _Connect both devices to electricity & get two Extension Cord male/female from each device to the bottom of ELEGRP 6-Outlet Extender with Central Anchor, 3-Prong Grounded Wall Tab, Multiple Outlet Extender with 6 Electrical Outlets, ETL Listed Then connect the pump to the top of ELEGRP 6-Outlet Extender with Central Anchor, 3-Prong Grounded Wall Tab, Multiple Outlet Extender with 6 Electrical Outlets, ETL Listed _Can you use the timer Plug and the Remote Control Outlet 500ft~1000ft Ultra Long Range 15A Wireless Switch at the same time? The timer is programmed for a certain time every day Remote Control Outlet 500ft~1000ft Ultra Long Range 15A Wireless Switch for time outside of that schedule (when the timer is off) _Connect both devices to electricity & get two Extension Cord male/female from each device to the bottom of ELEGRP 6-Outlet Extender with Central Anchor, 3-Prong Grounded Wall Tab, Multiple Outlet Extender with 6 Electrical Outlets, ETL Listed Then connect the pump to the top of ELEGRP 6-Outlet Extender with Central Anchor, 3-Prong Grounded Wall Tab, Multiple Outlet Extender with 6 Electrical Outlets, ETL Listed _I think you can use the Wyze Plug and the Remote Control Outlet 500ft~1000ft Ultra Long Range 15A Wireless Switch at the same time with the same setting? _I think you can use only the Remote Control Outlet 500ft~1000ft Ultra Long Range 15A Wireless Switch on demand? _The question can it work all the time without the digital timer, the answer I think yes because it worked with the Wyze Plug, and I think it will work with all these scenarios. The default time parameters are 5 minutes on and 15 minutes off It is better to go for 25 or 45 minutes setting Maximum system pressure 145 psi (10 bar). Flow rate: 0 - 3 [gpm] gallon per minute Flow, Q: max. 6.3 gpm (0 - 1.4 m3/h) The flow limits are based on predefined pipe diameters and flow limits Pipe diameters & flow limits 1/2" 1.5 gpm) 3/4" (2.3 gpm) 1" (3.8 gpm). _This one (digital timer) is similar to the one with an analog timer Comfort System (Includes timer, valve and hose kit) _This one with Separate digital timer Grundfos Model UP 15-10 SU7P/TLC - product number 99452459 The other one with an analog timer (both are the same) Grundfos Model UP 15-10 SU7P/TLC - Product number 595916 Grundfos Model UP 15-10 SU7P/DTLC - Product number 595916 Other Product number 99521972 (Digital Timer) 595926 (Comfort Valve/Grundfos XL Valve) 599390 (Flex Hose Kit) Comfort Valve Temperature sensor will close when the water reach temperature 102 °F, this will force the pump to stop circulating hot water to the cold water line. Reduce the flow for water in pipe can reduce accelerated corrosion You could make a video about that :)
HI Dan, great video. I have a question - that little comfort valve that is under the sink. Can i get multiple valves and put them in every bathroom and just use one device attached to the tank?
Thank you for the video. Since hot water recirculates into the cold water pipe, once you open the cold faucet, isn't the hot water comes out of it and you need to wait for cold water to start flowing out? Or it happens quickly?
We moved out of the home over a year ago. So, I don't know if there are any new issues. We ran it multiple times a day and never had any problems with it. Our new home came with a recirculating instant hot water heater. However, if I ever live in a home presenting the same long wait time for hot water with a tank water heater, I would install another Grundfos recirc pump. I was definitely happy with our experience with it.
I installed pump ofer the weekend the question now is should i leave it on all day or on schedule i have it on wyze plug so far thank you for your opinion
Dan,hello, WE LIVE IN NORTH NJ, YEARS AHO, I FOUNF THIS IN A SUPPLY HOUSE FOR MY TRADE GRUNDSOS it only came with the pump & 1 bypass fitting,I had to buy my hoses, so I USED IT IN MY LAV ON THE 2ND FLOOR,SO BASIN,TUB & shower, so I wrote GRUNDFOSS, they sent me the second bypass,so I installed it on the 1st floor lav,so the kitchen also gained from that,,,, nowadays the mbox comes with pump,bypass& 2 hoses, gee no wonder, from complaints I guess, I set my timer,off @ 3am -6 am, works like a champ. I could also connect an AQUASTAT, IN SERIES. WITH THE PUMPSTRAPPED ONTO PIPING, SO IT WOULD STOP ON THAT,INSTEAD OF TIMER, 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Howdy Dan.. do you know if Joey had to remove water heater Heat Traps for this installation? For myself, I'm pretty sure I would have to deal with those, and all comments so far are leaning toward, 'won't work with heaters that have heat traps installed :-(
I'm thinking of getting one of these. Do you feel the same about it today as you did when you posted this video? Also, are you saying you have to run the pump for 15 minutes before getting in the shower, in order to get hot water from the shower in 30 seconds? If so, I get that it saves water (compared to just letting the shower run until it warms up), but it seems self-defeating in terms reducing startup time. Maybe I'm missing something.
My wife and I are still happy with this recirculation system. I see your concern about having to wait 15 minutes. However, we are very comfortable with using a voice command while still laying in bed to activate the pump and after finally crawling out of bed, using the bathroom, and brushing my teeth, the timing works well to save some water. It just really annoys me to stand there for minutes with the water running down the drain waiting for the hot water. I have talked with other people with this same pump and have heard everything from they leave it running nonstop, and the example they use the standard timer and have it start well before they wake in the morning and let it run for hours. If you don't want to wait for however long yours will take to hit that "sweet spot" of time for near instant hot water, I'd use some of these other ideas instead of the voice control that I use. One last thought...not sure if it really matters but I have thoughts that running the pump for many hours, or all the time, unnecessarily wastes electricity.
@@danschaller1628 Thanks for the reply. I think our needs are generally predictable enough that we can set the timer to run the pump for a couple of hours in the morning and evening and that will cover most of out use. We'll just have to experiment. On another note, I've heard that when the hot water line is primed, the cold water line is now warm-hot, since it's been returning the hot water to the water heater, and now you have to wait for cold water to fill the line if you want any. Any comments on that phenomenon?
Why use the expensive thermo-valve? Why not instead let the pump sit at the far between hot and cold and let it pump for a few minutes right before you need hot water? I added a check valve for good measure. I used a cheap shower fan timer with 1 minute resolution. Clicking on 2 minutes once is enough to get the hot water from the hot water tank to the shower end. Gonna give the Alexa tip a try. Starting it by voice when jumping out of bed sounds cool (or hot, haha).
The valve came with the pump so I wasn't aware of its individual price, and never had problems with it so didn't need to buy a replacement. Always interesting to see different mods!
It does recirculate it back to the water heater through the cold water lines. Check out the official Grundfos video depicting the operation at th-cam.com/video/Jd0IsylW4Cc/w-d-xo.html
I’m currently a apprentice and I’m trying to figure out if you are able to put the pump on the hot water supply ? To me it just makes sense you need a return line and tie into the hot water tank (recruit inlet) and have the pump there ? Hope that makes sense and someone can help me out.
@@evandelzotto443 dedicated loop is the correct way, if you put a pump on the hot side the velocity of the water changes, I have seen hammering, balancing valves fail,and smells from hot contaminate the cold. Dedicated loop return can be throttled down and wont increase velocity of water leading to corrosive damage.
So the box says ‘saves money’. So you are saving money by not wasting water for waiting for it to get warm. But aren’t you wasting a fortune in your gas by having the water heater constantly be heating the water. Clearly I’m missing something.
Good point and very relevant if one leaves the pump on constantly. I'm running the pump an average of 30-60 minutes each day and have seen no real spike in the use of electricity or propane (power for the pump and propane for the water heater). I changed the duration of my voice activated outlet (pump time) from 15 min to 30 minutes since it gives me a bigger window of time to make it to the shower after I activate it.
Pros and cons of this system. The pro is of course you get hot water instaneously. The con is that hot water does get into the cold side which is your potable water. Unless you keep you water heater tank in tip top condition you will be drinking that water also. In other words the hot and potable cold side are not separated and your potable water might get contaminated by the hot water.
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pZbsSDRrmXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Awesome video, we took this a step further. You can set your Alexa routing so that any alarm set will trigger the pump. We use a tankless and it takes about 2:15 to get the system all the way up to temperature. The effect is by the time you acknowledge the alarm and get to the shower, it is ready to go. Have fun with that if you try it. We also have our bathroom timer fans set to trigger it as well. We turn the fan on in the evening when our kids are prepping for bed and the shower is hot by the time they go to use it.
All the home automation options nowadays are making life soooo much easier on us! Thanks for the tips and ideas!
@@danschaller1628 with the automation intelligence we can avoid a lot of CO2 emissions.
Normally people use the toilet 🚽 half an hour before showers 🚿, I re-route the pipes with electric valves and Alexa so the toilet 🚽 is filled with the cold water standing in the hot water pipes. Once the toilet 🚽 receives hot water, the pipes are re-routed to their normal configuration. Then you have instant hot water at the shower. No pump ⚙️ needed.
I read the idea from a gentleman in Australia 🇦🇺. Using Alexa to make the system more effective was my addition to his idea.
@@danschaller1628you need just 1 mixing valve in the farthest sink
Thanks already had one of these smart timers, great idea!
Like how its piped in with no unions.
I have a Grundfos recirculating pump that was installed in 2005. It was original construction so I have the dedicated line. It must make a difference because I have instantaneous hot water so I don’t have to “preheat” it. I have an analog timer that is sooooo outdated. I am surprised Grundfos doesn’t have a phone app to control the system. I too run the system with a smart plug (Kasa). I don’t have the auto shut-off so I may look into the Wyze. As far as electricity usage goes, Grundfos claims it uses the same amount of electricity as a 25 watt light bulb (yes it’s more than most LED bulbs but far less electricity usage than some people realize although I would never let it run all the time).
But aren’t you wasting a fortune by having your water heater constantly be warming up cold water that the pump is sending back to the water heater?
@@westfield90 Without being an expert, I would suggest that it is a small consideration since it isn’t exactly “cold” water being sent back to the water heater, it’s just colder than the valve’s minimum temp to stay closed. It would therefore take less energy to reheat than the actually cold new water from the municipal supply or a well.
@@jaw982
Does the recirculation pump increase the hot water pressure and flow ?
@@ajarivas72 not that I can tell. I have turned it on and off when the shower or sink was running and I don’t sense any flow or pressure fluctuations.
@@danschaller1628 thanks a lot for your answer.
My setup looks exactly just like yours. I also timed mine and it takes around 40 seconds without pump and 30+ seconds with pump in a low flow shower head where the valve is not installed, only saving a mere 10 seconds. i run the pump about 15 to 30 minutes before i shower. doesnt seem to make much of a difference. what am i doing wrong? do i need to install a second valve in the master bathroom where i take a shower?
Can I use this pump for Tankless water system
If you live in an older home with multiple remodels, and you are not certain which fixture is the furthest from the water heater.... can you guess? Or, can you place multiple sensors?
That cord isn't combustible?
Im planning to install pump without return line
_Can you use the timer Plug and the Wyze Plug at the same time?
The timer is programmed for a certain time every day
Wyze Plug for time outside of that schedule (when the timer is off)
_Connect both devices to electricity & get two Extension Cord male/female from each device to the bottom of
ELEGRP 6-Outlet Extender with Central Anchor, 3-Prong Grounded Wall Tab, Multiple Outlet Extender with 6 Electrical Outlets, ETL Listed
Then connect the pump to the top of
ELEGRP 6-Outlet Extender with Central Anchor, 3-Prong Grounded Wall Tab, Multiple Outlet Extender with 6 Electrical Outlets, ETL Listed
_Can you use the timer Plug and the Remote Control Outlet 500ft~1000ft Ultra Long Range 15A Wireless Switch at the same time?
The timer is programmed for a certain time every day
Remote Control Outlet 500ft~1000ft Ultra Long Range 15A Wireless Switch for time outside of that schedule (when the timer is off)
_Connect both devices to electricity & get two Extension Cord male/female from each device to the bottom of
ELEGRP 6-Outlet Extender with Central Anchor, 3-Prong Grounded Wall Tab, Multiple Outlet Extender with 6 Electrical Outlets, ETL Listed
Then connect the pump to the top of
ELEGRP 6-Outlet Extender with Central Anchor, 3-Prong Grounded Wall Tab, Multiple Outlet Extender with 6 Electrical Outlets, ETL Listed
_I think you can use the Wyze Plug and the Remote Control Outlet 500ft~1000ft Ultra Long Range 15A Wireless Switch at the same time with the same setting?
_I think you can use only the Remote Control Outlet 500ft~1000ft Ultra Long Range 15A Wireless Switch on demand?
_The question can it work all the time without the digital timer, the answer I think yes because it worked with the Wyze Plug, and I think it will work with all these scenarios.
The default time parameters are 5 minutes on and 15 minutes off
It is better to go for 25 or 45 minutes setting
Maximum system pressure 145 psi (10 bar).
Flow rate: 0 - 3 [gpm] gallon per minute
Flow, Q: max. 6.3 gpm (0 - 1.4 m3/h)
The flow limits are based on predefined pipe diameters and flow limits
Pipe diameters & flow limits
1/2" 1.5 gpm)
3/4" (2.3 gpm)
1" (3.8 gpm).
_This one (digital timer) is similar to the one with an analog timer
Comfort System (Includes timer, valve and hose kit)
_This one with Separate digital timer
Grundfos Model UP 15-10 SU7P/TLC - product number 99452459
The other one with an analog timer (both are the same)
Grundfos Model UP 15-10 SU7P/TLC - Product number 595916
Grundfos Model UP 15-10 SU7P/DTLC - Product number 595916
Other Product number
99521972 (Digital Timer)
595926 (Comfort Valve/Grundfos XL Valve)
599390 (Flex Hose Kit)
Comfort Valve Temperature sensor will close when the water reach temperature 102 °F, this will force the pump to stop circulating hot water to the cold water line.
Reduce the flow for water in pipe can reduce accelerated corrosion
You could make a video about that
:)
HI Dan, great video. I have a question - that little comfort valve that is under the sink. Can i get multiple valves and put them in every bathroom and just use one device attached to the tank?
That’s a good question. I really don’t know the answer but don’t see the need if you place the valve at the furthest sink away from your water heater.
Thank you for the video. Since hot water recirculates into the cold water pipe, once you open the cold faucet, isn't the hot water comes out of it and you need to wait for cold water to start flowing out? Or it happens quickly?
Never really noticed an issue with it. The cold was always quick and seemingly uninterrupted by the recirc pump.
Any pump issues if it runs continuously for say an hour or more a day?
We moved out of the home over a year ago. So, I don't know if there are any new issues. We ran it multiple times a day and never had any problems with it. Our new home came with a recirculating instant hot water heater. However, if I ever live in a home presenting the same long wait time for hot water with a tank water heater, I would install another Grundfos recirc pump. I was definitely happy with our experience with it.
Dan Schaller ordering Alexa around !!!!!!!!!!! SMART !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do i need to add any extra valves or piping? Great video
NO new return line used with this pump but it does come with a valve that I installed under the sink to recirculate the water.
Do you know if i should drain water heater? Thank you for yor reply
@@josesosa1628 I’m not a plumber but I’d say no. Of course it can’t hurt to drain it to give it a cleaning if installing the pump.
I installed pump ofer the weekend the question now is should i leave it on all day or on schedule i have it on wyze plug so far thank you for your opinion
Dan,hello, WE LIVE IN NORTH NJ, YEARS AHO, I FOUNF THIS IN A SUPPLY HOUSE FOR MY TRADE GRUNDSOS it only came with the pump & 1 bypass fitting,I had to buy my hoses, so I USED IT IN MY LAV ON THE 2ND FLOOR,SO BASIN,TUB & shower, so I wrote GRUNDFOSS, they sent me the second bypass,so I installed it on the 1st floor lav,so the kitchen also gained from that,,,, nowadays the mbox comes with pump,bypass& 2 hoses, gee no wonder, from complaints I guess, I set my timer,off @ 3am -6 am, works like a champ. I could also connect an AQUASTAT, IN SERIES. WITH THE PUMPSTRAPPED ONTO PIPING, SO IT WOULD STOP ON THAT,INSTEAD OF TIMER, 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Are those water pumps hot to the touch?
It was warm when operating.
Howdy Dan.. do you know if Joey had to remove water heater Heat Traps for this installation?
For myself, I'm pretty sure I would have to deal with those, and all comments so far are leaning toward, 'won't work with heaters that have heat traps installed :-(
Don’t recall ever seeing heat traps on the old water heater. No sign of them now.
@@danschaller1628 Hmm.. thanks Dan.. Happy Christmas!
@@steven.h0629
Does the recirculation pump increase the hot water pressure and flow ?
@@ajarivas72 No, this system design only works while all outlets (faucets) are closed.
@@steven.h0629 Thank you for your kind replay. I appreciate it.
Great analysis. Thanks
I'm thinking of getting one of these. Do you feel the same about it today as you did when you posted this video? Also, are you saying you have to run the pump for 15 minutes before getting in the shower, in order to get hot water from the shower in 30 seconds? If so, I get that it saves water (compared to just letting the shower run until it warms up), but it seems self-defeating in terms reducing startup time. Maybe I'm missing something.
My wife and I are still happy with this recirculation system. I see your concern about having to wait 15 minutes. However, we are very comfortable with using a voice command while still laying in bed to activate the pump and after finally crawling out of bed, using the bathroom, and brushing my teeth, the timing works well to save some water. It just really annoys me to stand there for minutes with the water running down the drain waiting for the hot water. I have talked with other people with this same pump and have heard everything from they leave it running nonstop, and the example they use the standard timer and have it start well before they wake in the morning and let it run for hours. If you don't want to wait for however long yours will take to hit that "sweet spot" of time for near instant hot water, I'd use some of these other ideas instead of the voice control that I use. One last thought...not sure if it really matters but I have thoughts that running the pump for many hours, or all the time, unnecessarily wastes electricity.
@@danschaller1628 Thanks for the reply. I think our needs are generally predictable enough that we can set the timer to run the pump for a couple of hours in the morning and evening and that will cover most of out use. We'll just have to experiment. On another note, I've heard that when the hot water line is primed, the cold water line is now warm-hot, since it's been returning the hot water to the water heater, and now you have to wait for cold water to fill the line if you want any. Any comments on that phenomenon?
Why use the expensive thermo-valve? Why not instead let the pump sit at the far between hot and cold and let it pump for a few minutes right before you need hot water? I added a check valve for good measure. I used a cheap shower fan timer with 1 minute resolution. Clicking on 2 minutes once is enough to get the hot water from the hot water tank to the shower end.
Gonna give the Alexa tip a try. Starting it by voice when jumping out of bed sounds cool (or hot, haha).
The valve came with the pump so I wasn't aware of its individual price, and never had problems with it so didn't need to buy a replacement. Always interesting to see different mods!
no thermal expansion tank installed???
Yes there is one installed but it’s just out of view on the right area on top of the heater. You can see the pipe heading vertical to it.
thanks
So since you don’t need a dedicated line, does the hot side push the cold back to the heater from the valve?
It does recirculate it back to the water heater through the cold water lines. Check out the official Grundfos video depicting the operation at th-cam.com/video/Jd0IsylW4Cc/w-d-xo.html
What is the model number????
We had the type UP15-10SU7P/TLC installed.
I can't wrap my brain around a system without a return line to hot tank.
Watch this video and notice the diagram of the hot/cold water pipes and how it circulates. th-cam.com/video/Jd0IsylW4Cc/w-d-xo.html
And no expansion tank ,no clearance to combustibles.
I’m currently a apprentice and I’m trying to figure out if you are able to put the pump on the hot water supply ? To me it just makes sense you need a return line and tie into the hot water tank (recruit inlet) and have the pump there ? Hope that makes sense and someone can help me out.
@@evandelzotto443 dedicated loop is the correct way, if you put a pump on the hot side the velocity of the water changes, I have seen hammering, balancing valves fail,and smells from hot contaminate the cold. Dedicated loop return can be throttled down and wont increase velocity of water leading to corrosive damage.
Master plumber
Considering maybe a timer switch in my bath remodel to turn it on.
Does the pump need to be plugged into an outlet on a dedicated circuit?
Just a regular outlet with constant power.
Get rid of the PVC piping on your relief valve. Use copper.
Looks like cpvc which is rated for hot water.
So the box says ‘saves money’. So you are saving money by not wasting water for waiting for it to get warm. But aren’t you wasting a fortune in your gas by having the water heater constantly be heating the water. Clearly I’m missing something.
Good point and very relevant if one leaves the pump on constantly. I'm running the pump an average of 30-60 minutes each day and have seen no real spike in the use of electricity or propane (power for the pump and propane for the water heater). I changed the duration of my voice activated outlet (pump time) from 15 min to 30 minutes since it gives me a bigger window of time to make it to the shower after I activate it.
@@danschaller1628
Does the recirculation pump increase the hot water pressure and flow ?
Pros and cons of this system. The pro is of course you get hot water instaneously. The con is that hot water does get into the cold side which is your potable water. Unless you keep you water heater tank in tip top condition you will be drinking that water also. In other words the hot and potable cold side are not separated and your potable water might get contaminated by the hot water.
No expansion tank.
It's just out of view on the right top area. No unions required when put together with copper pipes.