I was both a military and law enforcement sniper. I am a relitively new to PRS and I get my butt kicked every time I go to a match, some times by a kid who was not alive when I was operational. You are spot on, they are two very different animals.
Based solely on shooting capabilities, the average PRS competitor can outshoot most military/LEO Snipers🫢 Obviously there’s more associated with the job as a sniper than shooting, but in reality, it’s just a small part of the job title. Mike is right. Associating that title with competitive plinking is simply a misunderstanding of that duty. I will attest, that competitive shooting only makes a sniper better when applying that individual skill set. it’s simply more training from a different perspective, but an applicable one.
I'm a PRS shooter. I have zero land nav, recon, or any other field training. I also shoot a 25 lbs stormtrooper white 6 BRA. Comparing our sport to being a sniper is like comparing catching butterflies to lacrosse because they both use nets.
Surprisingly, many snipers say that shooting was maybe 10% of what they did. I think the fascination that some competitors may have is because what they envision a sniper to be isn't real. They see a sniper as someone very skilled at precision rifle, when in reality, that is not always the case. There are some phenomenal shooters who were snipers. Likewise, I've seen some really good PRS competitors smoke sniper matches. I think we all just need to focus on what we want to be better at.
A sniper is a couple things. A team sent to gather battlefield information and relaying said info to higher. A team that has the ability to place long range precision fire. A team to provide over watch. A hunter of gunman. None of those line up with a PRS match. PS There’s no such thing as a sniper rifle. There is however a sniper’s rifle.
.....that's like trying to incorporate hunting & longrange competition shooting aswell.....totally different, OR, if one does, incorporating longrange competition & sniping would be the same.
I smile and chuckle at this rant because prior to PRS and where “sand socks” “would never be used” in the field. This goes back to “bag wars” and how in the PRS we game the game. The hard part is that the majority of people who see what we do when we game the game and try to explain it……they say we are in a “sniper” competition. To a degree we are complicit in that many of our targets are “humanoid” shapes and as such it would appear that we are shooting at humans. Going all the way to the NorCal guys have a VERY unique target that is two different bullseye targets (one above another) so they are not using a standard IPSC
I feel like the word "sniper" should be taken out of the precision rifle world due to its negative view of the general public. "Sniper" is just like "asalt rifle" and it will end this sport.
Spot on, Mike. Those that make stages like that have never been a sniper. Like the old saying goes, "If you remember the 60's, your weren't there..." 😂
No gear restrictions on a long stage with hand feeding was NOT hard. See a dude lose a box mag on a hunt. Sniper buddy in training was given 1 mag and 2 rounds, lost it. You're right, the MD shouldn't try to justify why he made a weird stage, but it wasn't a hard stage. Complaining about it all weekend, then on the internet while also saying "prs is shooting under the hardest conditions" then complaining about a hard condition is just silly. Hearing Morgun King complain about a true PRS stage with a tank trap and claiming a leaf occluded his view and wanted the stage thrown out. That's dumb. It's NH. It's a cool range. Probably our best range, that's no longer available for PRS after this match. Yeah the MD is rough in areas, but now there's a whole group of shooters that don't get to shoot PRS in their home state anymore because the "pros" bitched and complained the whole time. Thanks guys!
I NEVER dreamed I would hear such a logical & well said debate on the side you are speaking of,.....I appreciate both sides, if well said, & I don't argue either side because both sides have valid points so I see it pointless, with the exception, people should not think they are something they are not, & that is true about attending an NRL Hunter competition, that should NOT make ANYONE think they can go out & shoot at game at longrange - that is hunting, NOT a longrange target to engage to see if you can hit it.....PRECISELY WHY more & more states are discussing the possibilities of making laws against it. Anyway, thanks fer sharing a good video on an interesting topic.
I think where you miss the mark is that PRS was born out of the some of the same critical shooting skills less field craft as sniping or designated marksman classification. Certainly PRS has taken on a life of its own, yet some commonalty when continue to exist. No hate though, make that metal ding!
IDPA went that way a long time ago too. "Scenario, you're at a pie eating contest with your gun on the table, when suddenly you notice the audience is full of 8 guys trying to kill the contestants. 3 head shots each, near to far."
Yeah yeah, EVERYONE is a sniper nowadays...., They walk into a gun store and buy a 6.5 creedmoor off the shelf, slap on a scope with knobs and dials...now they are Special Green Seal Delta Beret Team Operator Force-! I'M just a dude that likes to shoot-! And challenge myself to learn and get better. I don't care for trophies...I do it for my own personal means.
I love prs shooting. It’s a fun game. I sit in an office all day. It gets me outside around some amazing fun people. It’s a challenging fun sport. I don’t want it to be a serious tactical setting. If prs became this I would move on to something else.
PRS Is about shooting tiny targets a long way away. A Snipers job is to kill people. His job sometimes requires shooting tiny targets a long way away. Its an important distinction.
On your mag point, many LE still use a 700 with a 4 round trap door internal mag. So single feeds are still important. Not hatin on your content, I get where you are coming from and agree. Although I always liked those kind of stages and the hostage stages only because it was my bread and butter as a LE "sniper" (now retired). I don't even like associating the word with LE as it's a discredit to mil guys that really EARN that title. I did find humor in watching the stress on other competitors when they did those stages. I shoot prs some as a form of stress relief lol. I get ya tho, I could talk for hours on it.
Yes but they don’t have an empty magwell fo drop rounds out of either. Single feed on those is much easier and I would argue if you left a mag in you could replicate it effectively.
Oddly enough I haven't heard anyone I know say or post on social media such things. But that's only the people I associate with. Not saying there aren't people that say/post such things. What cracks me up is when people say "Oh man, shit ever hits the fan I'm with you" Why? I'm just a dude that likes to shoot and learn new things and try to improve myself. That's it. I'm nobody special. Go find someone else to bug during the zombie apocalypse because you're not getting any of my beer or twinkies.
You said "retarded", my third favorite word; at least. I hate the use of "sniper" as well. I like the term "rifleman", I'm trying to be a well rounded rifleman.
I am not sure what the point of the rant really is other than to have something to complain about. Synonyms of sniper are marksman and sharpshooter. Would sharpshooter or marksman not apply to a PRS competitor? Why not sniper then? Truly what is the harm of making PRS stages interesting with a story? Reguardless of the story being technically right or wong I think it is cool when a MD takes the time to try and give the shooter more than just mechanics. You sound like the guy at the range giving someone the business for using magazine and clip interchangeably. I just read about Pat Benatar not singing "Hit me with you best shot" because of school shootings this rant sounds like a lefty nit picking Symantecs.
LOL The mental gymnastics you’re doing to make that connection is laughable. SNIPER = a person who has been trained and graduated a course to employ tactics to shoot people. Sharpshooter/marksman= people skilled in shooting They are not the same.
The point is associating the two makes you sound uneducated in both arenas. The point is to not try to make the PRS something that it's not. Motocross is not Moto GP. CrossFit is not the Mr. Olympia. Your rant sounds like someone that couldn't make the team and Mike's words infiltrated your safe space.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 How so? From a operational perspective a marksman or a designated marksman have a similar role to sniper. I do not consider competitive precision shooters "snipers" as they are not shooting human targets, but being able to strike human sized or smaller targets at distance from sometimes odd and concealed positions seems pretty sniper like to me. I just think you are making something out of what should be nothing. When I show friends and family videos of competitions in almost all cases someone will say something about it looking like what a sniper does....but you do you.
@@PhalanxArms I am well aware of my skill with a rifle and my limitations. A team member I am not. Just like I am not offended by your comment you should not be offended or feel disrespected when someone uses the word "sniper" in context to PRS.
@@chipherrick5121 Using the word sniper in PRS, or any other form of precision shooting, is disrespectful to those who have actually trained to be snipers. Shooting is about one-tenth of what a sniper trains to do. That's like saying, "I put out a BBQ fire with my garden hose today. I'm a firefighter now!" It's really just about respecting an honorable position.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
I was both a military and law enforcement sniper. I am a relitively new to PRS and I get my butt kicked every time I go to a match, some times by a kid who was not alive when I was operational. You are spot on, they are two very different animals.
Based solely on shooting capabilities, the average PRS competitor can outshoot most military/LEO Snipers🫢
Obviously there’s more associated with the job as a sniper than shooting, but in reality, it’s just a small part of the job title. Mike is right. Associating that title with competitive plinking is simply a misunderstanding of that duty.
I will attest, that competitive shooting only makes a sniper better when applying that individual skill set. it’s simply more training from a different perspective, but an applicable one.
I'm a PRS shooter. I have zero land nav, recon, or any other field training. I also shoot a 25 lbs stormtrooper white 6 BRA. Comparing our sport to being a sniper is like comparing catching butterflies to lacrosse because they both use nets.
Surprisingly, many snipers say that shooting was maybe 10% of what they did.
I think the fascination that some competitors may have is because what they envision a sniper to be isn't real. They see a sniper as someone very skilled at precision rifle, when in reality, that is not always the case.
There are some phenomenal shooters who were snipers. Likewise, I've seen some really good PRS competitors smoke sniper matches.
I think we all just need to focus on what we want to be better at.
A sniper is a couple things. A team sent to gather battlefield information and relaying said info to higher. A team that has the ability to place long range precision fire. A team to provide over watch. A hunter of gunman. None of those line up with a PRS match.
PS There’s no such thing as a sniper rifle. There is however a sniper’s rifle.
.....that's like trying to incorporate hunting & longrange competition shooting aswell.....totally different, OR, if one does, incorporating longrange competition & sniping would be the same.
I smile and chuckle at this rant because prior to PRS and where “sand socks” “would never be used” in the field. This goes back to “bag wars” and how in the PRS we game the game.
The hard part is that the majority of people who see what we do when we game the game and try to explain it……they say we are in a “sniper” competition. To a degree we are complicit in that many of our targets are “humanoid” shapes and as such it would appear that we are shooting at humans. Going all the way to the NorCal guys have a VERY unique target that is two different bullseye targets (one above another) so they are not using a standard IPSC
I feel like the word "sniper" should be taken out of the precision rifle world due to its negative view of the general public. "Sniper" is just like "asalt rifle" and it will end this sport.
Spot on, Mike. Those that make stages like that have never been a sniper. Like the old saying goes, "If you remember the 60's, your weren't there..." 😂
No gear restrictions on a long stage with hand feeding was NOT hard. See a dude lose a box mag on a hunt. Sniper buddy in training was given 1 mag and 2 rounds, lost it. You're right, the MD shouldn't try to justify why he made a weird stage, but it wasn't a hard stage. Complaining about it all weekend, then on the internet while also saying "prs is shooting under the hardest conditions" then complaining about a hard condition is just silly.
Hearing Morgun King complain about a true PRS stage with a tank trap and claiming a leaf occluded his view and wanted the stage thrown out. That's dumb.
It's NH. It's a cool range. Probably our best range, that's no longer available for PRS after this match. Yeah the MD is rough in areas, but now there's a whole group of shooters that don't get to shoot PRS in their home state anymore because the "pros" bitched and complained the whole time.
Thanks guys!
I NEVER dreamed I would hear such a logical & well said debate on the side you are speaking of,.....I appreciate both sides, if well said, & I don't argue either side because both sides have valid points so I see it pointless, with the exception, people should not think they are something they are not, & that is true about attending an NRL Hunter competition, that should NOT make ANYONE think they can go out & shoot at game at longrange - that is hunting, NOT a longrange target to engage to see if you can hit it.....PRECISELY WHY more & more states are discussing the possibilities of making laws against it. Anyway, thanks fer sharing a good video on an interesting topic.
I think where you miss the mark is that PRS was born out of the some of the same critical shooting skills less field craft as sniping or designated marksman classification. Certainly PRS has taken on a life of its own, yet some commonalty when continue to exist. No hate though, make that metal ding!
IDPA went that way a long time ago too. "Scenario, you're at a pie eating contest with your gun on the table, when suddenly you notice the audience is full of 8 guys trying to kill the contestants. 3 head shots each, near to far."
Yeah yeah, EVERYONE is a sniper nowadays...., They walk into a gun store and buy a 6.5 creedmoor off the shelf, slap on a scope with knobs and dials...now they are Special Green Seal Delta Beret Team Operator Force-!
I'M just a dude that likes to shoot-! And challenge myself to learn and get better. I don't care for trophies...I do it for my own personal means.
You’re not wrong
When Red Dawn happens, I would prefer to be called a gorilla sniper fighter, but until then, I’m just a guy with a rifle that cost 10x what it should.
A tru Guerilla has a plain Hunting rifle
@@mrs.vasquezz well that might be true, but I would not get rid of a rifle that shoots in the .1s consistently.
@@JacobTerherst ?
@@mrs.vasquezz group size in inches at 100 yards
@@JacobTerherst no gun shoots a .1 inch lmao
I love prs shooting. It’s a fun game. I sit in an office all day. It gets me outside around some amazing fun people. It’s a challenging fun sport. I don’t want it to be a serious tactical setting. If prs became this I would move on to something else.
100% Mike. This is similar to the argument with (the old) IDPA vs USPSA. Is it a game or "tactical" training? It's a game, we keep score.
PRS Is about shooting tiny targets a long way away. A Snipers job is to kill people. His job sometimes requires shooting tiny targets a long way away. Its an important distinction.
Mike - You have to know, the next match you go to, will have a stage called "Lilly's Sniper Shit".. right? (wink)
Awww yisss. 😂
Paging Prentice Wink
USPSA is not CQB either.
Note taken, do not use the word "Sniper" around the Lillys. Congrats on your 5th place at Alder Brook 👍
On your mag point, many LE still use a 700 with a 4 round trap door internal mag. So single feeds are still important. Not hatin on your content, I get where you are coming from and agree. Although I always liked those kind of stages and the hostage stages only because it was my bread and butter as a LE "sniper" (now retired). I don't even like associating the word with LE as it's a discredit to mil guys that really EARN that title. I did find humor in watching the stress on other competitors when they did those stages. I shoot prs some as a form of stress relief lol. I get ya tho, I could talk for hours on it.
Yes but they don’t have an empty magwell fo drop rounds out of either. Single feed on those is much easier and I would argue if you left a mag in you could replicate it effectively.
Oddly enough I haven't heard anyone I know say or post on social media such things. But that's only the people I associate with. Not saying there aren't people that say/post such things.
What cracks me up is when people say "Oh man, shit ever hits the fan I'm with you" Why? I'm just a dude that likes to shoot and learn new things and try to improve myself. That's it. I'm nobody special. Go find someone else to bug during the zombie apocalypse because you're not getting any of my beer or twinkies.
Iove the Hat!
IMHO If you have not and never have or will cap a human in the dome at 800yd plus you are NOT a sniper! Period, end of story!
You aren't wrong at all, and you know my current and former occupation
You said "retarded", my third favorite word; at least. I hate the use of "sniper" as well. I like the term "rifleman", I'm trying to be a well rounded rifleman.
Why care what people say?
Rock chucks are scared of me. Does that count as being a sniper. Lol 😆 🤣
I am not sure what the point of the rant really is other than to have something to complain about. Synonyms of sniper are marksman and sharpshooter. Would sharpshooter or marksman not apply to a PRS competitor? Why not sniper then? Truly what is the harm of making PRS stages interesting with a story? Reguardless of the story being technically right or wong I think it is cool when a MD takes the time to try and give the shooter more than just mechanics. You sound like the guy at the range giving someone the business for using magazine and clip interchangeably. I just read about Pat Benatar not singing "Hit me with you best shot" because of school shootings this rant sounds like a lefty nit picking Symantecs.
LOL The mental gymnastics you’re doing to make that connection is laughable. SNIPER = a person who has been trained and graduated a course to employ tactics to shoot people.
Sharpshooter/marksman= people skilled in shooting
They are not the same.
The point is associating the two makes you sound uneducated in both arenas. The point is to not try to make the PRS something that it's not. Motocross is not Moto GP. CrossFit is not the Mr. Olympia. Your rant sounds like someone that couldn't make the team and Mike's words infiltrated your safe space.
@@longrangewiththelillys1221 How so? From a operational perspective a marksman or a designated marksman have a similar role to sniper. I do not consider competitive precision shooters "snipers" as they are not shooting human targets, but being able to strike human sized or smaller targets at distance from sometimes odd and concealed positions seems pretty sniper like to me. I just think you are making something out of what should be nothing. When I show friends and family videos of competitions in almost all cases someone will say something about it looking like what a sniper does....but you do you.
@@PhalanxArms I am well aware of my skill with a rifle and my limitations. A team member I am not. Just like I am not offended by your comment you should not be offended or feel disrespected when someone uses the word "sniper" in context to PRS.
@@chipherrick5121 Using the word sniper in PRS, or any other form of precision shooting, is disrespectful to those who have actually trained to be snipers. Shooting is about one-tenth of what a sniper trains to do. That's like saying, "I put out a BBQ fire with my garden hose today. I'm a firefighter now!" It's really just about respecting an honorable position.