Good Game Design - Spelunky: Nothing Held Back (feat. GamingFTL)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มี.ค. 2016
- Spelunky is one of the best roguelikes I've played. It's stupidly hard, but that's part of what makes it fun! The difficulty and replayability help roguelikes stay engaging long after most other games. Let's talk about it!
Special thanks to GamingFTL for helping me out with this video! Check his channel out here: / gamingftl
Support snomaN Gaming on Patreon! / snomangaming
Intro animated by Pop Punk Game Time!
TH-cam: / poppunkgametime
Twitter: / poppunkgametime
Intro music - "Undertale Sucks" by animeistrash: animeistrash.bandcamp.com/alb...
Game footage:
Heavy Bullets, Darkest Dungeon, Dungeons of Dredmor, FTL: Faster Than Light, Don't Starve, Nuclear Throne, Downwell, Rogue Legacy, Spelunky, Risk of Rain, The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth, Super House of Dead Ninjas, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Paranautical Activity, Super Amazing Wagon Adventure
Music:
incompetech.com
Spelunky OST
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3:21 actual footage of everyone's first playthrough of Spelunky
True
I like how all the hidden items are Egyptian based, and then it's like "you get to travel to *hell* "
The whole game is a mish-mash of stuff from different cultures. Olmec is based on and named after the Olmec civilization. Moai heads are from the Rapa Nui people on Easter Island. Jiang Shi (the hopping zombie guys) are from east Asia. Kali and the Kapala are Hindu. Giant spiders are from Australia
@@faokie lol good point, I've never thought about that
Employer: So why should we hire you?
Me: I beat Yama in spelunky
I'm definitely putting the fact that I beat yama on my resume >:)
Eggyama?
A lot of the reasons for why I like Rogue-likes have been mentioned here. But one thing I like that, admittedly, may be personal to me, is when someone else new starts to play them. When you're experienced and you get to watch someone else go through the same trials, it evokes a real sense of nostalgia. There's also the best feeling of them saying "How did you know that?" When you tell them a secret that you actually thought was commonplace knowledge.
+Ryan “TheGenericHenchman” Calder Oh yeah! Northernlion for example is actually who got me INTO Binding of Isaac and Spelunky. Getting to watch other people strategize and execute helps you become better as well :)
snomaN Gaming Exact same story here ^w^
Randomly generated worlds each play and death permanence... so Minecraft on hardcore mode could be a rouge-like?
With some modifications, yes. But it's not quite there. Mojang should make some modifications to Hardcore mode.
Zion J what modifications?
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 I'll tell you about that in a couple days...
Willem yeah
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 Okay, took awhile to get around to it, but here it is: th-cam.com/video/l5e7HMT2F7M/w-d-xo.html
Your touched on one of the reasons I love roguelikes so much. That feeling of pure accomplishment you get when you finally beat the game, knowing that the game wasn't pulling any punches.
On top of that, Roguelikes have a devoted and creative community. It seems like most roguelike players have their own idea for a game or game mechanics kicking around in their head.
+Rogueliker Yeah there are so many different games out there and lots of variations, I love it!
I'm ashamed to say i never beat spelunky and I've died 1200 times
+Nayolfa That's about the level I was at when I beat Olmec for the first time. 95 hours.
+Nayolfa It took me FOREVER to beat it, a real slow crawl of improvement. But it's still really fun after over 1500 deaths
+snomaN Gaming Yeah, I just don't have enough time to constantly play it. Also love the new intro. Your work or did you commission it?
I commissioned it from Pop Punk Game Time, his info is in the description :) He did an awesome job!
I had no idea about any of the things he mentioned in the video, like the black market, I would just go deeper, and even then I didn't get far.
Having the music be in time with the Crypt of the NecroDancer gameplay satisfied me.
Such a great game!
Such a pain in the ass game, but i still love it
snomaN Gaming PLEASE DO DONT STARVE
When was the last time you seen them fing?
I bought Spelunky about a year ago and hated it (because I sucked at it and I was kinda dumb), but recently I decided to give it a second chance. My god am I glad I did. It has gone up the ranks to one of my favourites because of one change in playstyle: don't play to win. Play to have fun. Play to see how far you can get. If you go in and think "I'm gonna win this time!" You'll just be dissapointed when you die. Congratulate yourself for every new level you reach! That is why I now love Spelunky.
because finally breaking the wall after throwing yourself at it for the millionth time is the best feeling in the world
+InEdibleCake Yeah absolutely, I agree!
I love spelunky because, even if you can't buy the full game, the demo never gets boring
Torrent?
also spelunky classic
@@zamininc3223 but if you torrent it you won't support the dev
@@joelebruno If you can't buy the game, and have to keep replaying the demo, you won't support the dev either. So might as well torrent
@@happymolecule8894 this logic's kinda ass dawg
This came out so well, great job Snowman! Glad to have been a part of it. I could never finish Spelunky but it kept me entertained me for MANY hours with friends.
+Gaming Faster than Light! Thanks for helping out Josh! Yeah it is a really really fun game despite being so hard lol
+snomaN Gaming Hey man love the new intro
+Mitchell Waldroup Ikr his intro looks more sharp and official.
3:47
As Lizardman teleports and insta-kills you as you enter the level.
(At job interview)
“I see you have good experience in this job field.”
“Did you see the part where I put beat hell in spelunky 22 times.”
“You’re hired!”
I like rogue-likes because I love challenging games. That feeling you get when you beat them is so great that I just can't stop coming back to it.
+Alranican Same for me, I think I am really just drawn to the difficulty
Ikr, it feels so good when you beat spelunky/spelunky 2
I love the items in rogue likes, the combinations of sets makes each different run fun and interesting, even after you're a master.
Great video! I love your Good Game Design Series. Can't wait for the next one.
My favorite thing about roguelikes has got to be difficulty and replayability. Replayability the most, because memorizing an enemy's placement is easy, and the player could probably fight them or run past it, but the procedurally generated levels force you to memorize their attack patterns more, instead of environment and enemy placement. It's focus is more on the enemy and action than the environment. Reflexes have to be faster because you dont know if an enemy is around the corner or not.
+Sokkawolf Yeah that's why I like them too :) thank you, glad you enjoyed
Nuclear Thone displays this principal VERY well.
+Tony Taco Yeah thats a good one! Chaotic, but good :)
This series has been great from the beginning and continues to be excellent. Keep it up! :)
+britishdantheman Thank you so much that means a lot :)
I've really been enjoying diving in all these videos man. As a Game Designer senior from the Savannah College of Art and Design, these are really great refreshers to all the principles and concepts I've learned while in school.
Great video. One thing I would add to the prerequisites for roguelikes is that the lack or near lack of tutorial adds to the engagement, rather than detracts from it.
Not a complaint, but would have loved to have seen more about Don't Starve. Perhaps a GGD video dedicated to Don't Starve?
+Josh Wilson That game is pretty fun, I never got very good at it though haha! I still suck. Maybe someday when i get better at it :P
sweet new intro sir, and a wonderful video. love the whole good game design idea, always cool to see what game you consider fitting this category.
+Rainy Days Thanks :) Glad you like it, I have lots of ideas still to come. It's really fun to put together
Spelunky is one of my all time favs it's replay value is out of the roof
Haven't kept up with your videos lately. I really like the new intro. It feels so professional.
+MelvaCross Hehe thanks! I love it
YOUR CHANNEL IS AWESOME!!! I am very surprised you don't have 1000000... you are so much better than any other gaming youtuber i have ever seen.... and i have literally almost seen every gamingtuber
Hehe thank you that means a lot :D
You Are Welcome, You deserve it man
I love rougelikes because the potential for UNPARALLELED POWER is ever present. The game dangles incredible toys that fundamentally alter the way you play, not just the numbers, just out of reach. Like the upgrade items in Risk of Rain or the all powerful jet pack in Spelunky.
It's like looking up in a sandbox game and seeing jet planes while riding around in a shopping cart, it gives you a goal to dream about and when you get that reward dangled in front of you, it's all the sweeter.
+thatrandombloak Yeah thats a great example, it definitely has the POTENTIAL to make you OP, but not always. Thats cool
honestly i love just how it goes from really freakin hard but then after a while you get used to it adjusted to its quirks and stuff like the shop keepers how you fear them but later on you know their ai and you feel confident robbing them stuff like that
Cool, no pun intended. Got a slick new intro, and you've updated your assets as well. Nice. I've never tried Spelunky, but it looks fun.
As for roguelikes, it encourages you to be better at them. No hand holding here, just your wits and skills at your disposal. Rogue Legacy is a great example.
I can say I have never heard of the genre of games before. So thanks!
I’m happy that roguelikes. Especially Spelunky(one of my favorite video games ever) are getting the recognition they deserve
The secret Splunky ending gave a Cave Story vibe.
WOOOT I love these. I've watched the others at least twice each.
+Raul Gonzalez Nice! Much more to come, glad you liked it :)
-excited clapping-
The both principles you've mentioned is also what makes a roguelike for me too.
- Randomly Generated
- Death Permanence
I'd also add that the randomly generated content must include a nice and varied character evolution each time you play, as the collectibles on Binding of Isaac.
Well, roguelikes are the true ASCII turn-based dungeon crawlers.
The game this video was about are actually called "roguelites"
This is a fairly controversial topic in the roguelike community. Some people believe that Spelunky and Isaac and FTL etc deserve to be called roguelikes, and others believe that they need to be in their own separate related genre called roguelites.
Arkouda Chien Goddamnit, I had a whole comment written for this but instead of posting it when I pressed "post" it closed my menu...
Oh well, it basically said that every game that you can call a roguelite is a game with roguelike as a subgenre i.e. Spelunky is not a roguelike, it's a roguelike *platformer*/roguelite.
Rogue-likes are not rogue-clones. What you speak off are clones of rogue.
New intro is so sick man. Interesting video. I feel like rogue likes are the genres I have least experience with so I enjoyed learning
+CrayTrey Thanks man :) Yeah you should play some ;)
Love the Wet Fur level music at the end. Best song in the game!
A reason why I enjoy this genre is something interesting: Unlockables.
I love playing through games and unlocking stuff; It creates the idea that I am growing as a player for the game in question. And it just feels satisfying when I get everything that was locked before.
+Orenjiboy135 Yes I agree, and this game does that very well too! Like the shortcuts and filling out your notebook
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Boyz. Y'all got to the super secret HYPE! I loved this video and y'all did a great job describing exactly why Roguelikes are so fun.
+PerrydactylShow Ayyy thanks Perr
Another great video dude, gotta say that i have spent way too many hours on The Binding of Isaac continuously saying "Just one more run."
Keep it up :)
+SnoopingTurtle Yeah man that's a close second for my fav roguelike probably!
+snomaN Gaming Sno that's obviously the best one check your privilege
having the permadeath mechanic means every playthrough is short and sweet. it also means more randomness can be forgiven in design, which makes the game more fun rather than less fair.
+Charlie Jindra Yeah that is true. In a regular game the randomness could be cheap or annoying, but because each death is mostly inevitable anyway, it just because funny! lol
+snomaN Gaming I always loved Roguelikes. I started out with Magicite then went on to Isaac, Roguelands and then Spelunky. I love them because I love hard, random, frustating (but not cheep) games. They never get old.
I love this game so much it was tough at first but now I can do hell runs almost every try it's just become fluent from practice. I'm so happy spelunky 2 is coming out I can't wait.
Finally! Some appreciation for this gem.
I love roguelikes for the amazing stories that you create playing them. a lot of roguelikes have so many pieces that its amazing for emergent storytelling. Though thats more true of actual roguelikes (grid-based, turn-based, permadeath, RNG, etc) to roguelites or diet-roguelikes as i prefer to call them.
I used to play the game called the Enchanted Cave at school when I was done with all my work or if we had free time. I was able to just go into the cave like a pro, now what upgrades to look for and what times to go back to the village. My favorite part was the story though. Each time you came back from exploring the cave, the NPCs around the town would have something else to say. Slowly the town loses more and more people to the caves.
*sees video*
*clicks, advertisement plays*
*hums spelunky opening theme...*
I love roguelikes because they are brutal and make me cry
Forever ago i had an idea for a rogue-like, but i didn't know the word at the time. So i kept describing it to people and they thought it sounded terribly hard. A couple years, later I've shelved the idea in my mind and come across FTL a game with perma-death, hard enemies and exploration. This blew the dust off that mantel shelve and sent the idea hurtling back down onto my head. Now that i know the term, i can actually describe it to p-eople without them thinking it's terrible.
I've noticed that some rogue-like games have different sections to constrict themselves from making every enemy appear in the first one e.g Spelunky with the mines, jungle, ice caves, temple and hell. Also, there is a limit to how random it gets and Spelunky is a symbol with different 'sections' of the level having a random ground formation from the sample set.
Roguelikes are the best. I've played so much Isaac, and yet I still discover new things everytime.
"I FINALLY BEAT MY MOM!... WAIT THERE IS ANOTHER BOSS?!"
i enjoyed this video & your voice is soothing , hoping your other vids are just as well-made :) subbed
+Kurt Pace Thank you so much that means a lot :)
Gothic+Risen series is another great example of this principle.
5:57 there’s something about the way he says “randomly placed, every time” that makes me think of buying something with a literal briefcase full of cash, and he’s showing me the stuff and explaining just how many thousands of Tyrian snails went into this specific vial of dye. “Hand-ground, every time.”
I like roguelikes and roguelites because the randomization keeps them from getting stale and overly-repetitive. It's a new adventure every time!
I like rogue games because i usually get sad when i finish a game that i REALLY LOVE, but spelunky is my most favorite game, and ill never get tired of it, because there's a lifetime worth of stuff to do
I like roguelikes because they remind me playing games at the arcade when I was a child
Yeah they do kinda have that feel huh? Luckily we have infinite coins ;)
This video got me into rougelikes. thx snoman gaming
I just found your channel through youtube recommendation and man, I love it so hard already haha
I LOVE roguelikes. I discovered the genre with FTL and Rogue Legacy, instant addict.
And what I love the most in roguelikes are the stories. Every run is a new story, full of different events and craziness. Every day I have a Shiren story to tell. FTL is the most interesting for this, like every run is a captain trying to survive in deep space. And I love the death. Make the story meaningful and... lovable.
But seriously man, play Shiren the Wanderer. Shiren is the roguelike masterpiece for me with mindblowning interactions and possibilities. And it has some crazy hard shopkeepers too haha
Here in the western there is 3 localized games. Try the DS or the Vita ones.
Whats best about rougelikes is the stress that gets placed on you when you make it far as a beginner, because you dont want to die and start over its the knowledge of immediate restart that makes getting far worth it
Infinite replayability and a real feeling of accomplishment... That's why I love roguelikes.
Your new intro tune is so much better than the old one!
+SaL your PaL I love it! The song is by animeistrash
I know I'm really late to say this, but I'm lovin' the new intro, man!
I failed so hard at Spelunky when I tried it out... Nonetheless, great video!
+Nathan Wooten Haha thanks! Glad you enjoyed :D I love the new intro too
Whenever I end up dying from a run with a jetpack and nearly all the items, I take a break and when I come back I feel like playing this game again
My favorite Roguelike has been Rogue Legacy. I loved the feeling of getting the perfect roll on a character, and then feeling like I was just "in the flow" as I perfectly made my way through the castle. It's that feeling of "flow" that really does it for me with any roguelike.
I just love games that aren't necessarily long but still have a lot of hours in them just from mastering every aspect of them until what you once thought was impossible can now be done with your eyes closed.
+J Cruz Yeah the length comes from playing it over and over again, almost like the old NES games but its much more fair and fun :)
the pressure improves imersion. you have to think like an adventurer, you have to think like a spaceship captain
Great video. The short time 1 hour thing only really applies to action roguelikes which are played in one sitting, and not the old turn based ones which take tens of hours and allow you to save and come back to them.
+Mr Wendal Yeah this is true, some let you save progress but the ones that take around that long interest me longer :)
Thanks for the video
Awesome video! i think that the approach of Dark Souls in terms of game design is really similar, it takes some elements of roguelikes (it is hard, all enemies will fairly kick your ass) and combines that with the "raising difficulty" element, giving you this feeling of "i will do it like this now, and i will not fail in that"...only to see yourself dying a hundred times until you make the perfect move.
+Naiko Yeah! It is similar in some regards. I think I just like hard games lol
Binding of Isaac, and Spelunky are my go to games. I agree, I really like that feeling of improvement.
+Pajama Senpai I could play those games forever, they're so great
5:35 - Let's call it "Jagan Eye".
Maybe, it's not natural, but it give you what you need.
i forgot your channel existed, nice video
Another thing I love about Spelunky is that everything that hurts you, can hurt the enemys to, (except other enemys, which makes sense).
Actually no, the plant you find in the jungle can and will eat other enemies,
Not true the shop keeper's shot gun wipes out every breathing thing on the map until I get a lucky bomb or he kills himself on spikes.
the stories! like miraculous comebacks and slim saves. And myriad of ridiculous deaths. Like that time I was still in the mines and took the idol and runned for the exit. The ball opened a single block hole in the level above from which a spider fell on top of the spines next to me. It's blood spilled on some explosives, which went off and killed me. Took me a while to figure out what happened.
I watched thé gamedesign #1 and I was like, I hope hé got more videos about gamedesign c: !! :D
+GakuseiChatto Haha yeah, there's a lot more :) and more to come!
+snomaN Gaming yesss! thanks a lot!
Reason 1: They're the perfect example of why "length by difficulty" isn't inherently bad. I still haven't beaten- for example- DoomRL, but I'm totally cool with that since it's not like I'm going through the same stuff each time.
Reason 2: Their difficulty ultimately stems from how much you understand what different items do and how different objects interact with each other. NetHack is probably the best example of this, since it accounts for basically everything you could possibly do, leading to an almost unreasonably large number of potential actions you can take in a given situation.
+Amorix Yeah awesome points!
*sees annotation in upper left corner*
*wishes he had internet fast enough to experience it*
I love it when rogue likes have an upgrade system like Rogue Legacy, when you can finally blast through an area and yet still have to grow to fight the bigger bosses. Much like darksouls where you can upgrade your gear to improve while also improving as a player
One of the most important things roguelike design offers is investment and meaningful decisions. Because you can't simply reload, you are making permanent decisions you have to live with. Runs are more emotional, with more painful defeats and glorious victories.
A good roguelike will also offer a lot of room for growth and Mastery. In FTL, for example, you'll die repeatedly before you ever win once - on Easy. But get good enough and you can win virtually every time on Hard.
+DarkTwinge Yep, I love that that can be a design philosophy and still be "good design" lol, but it is! And it feels amazing when you do beat it!
A game that I like that although is not really a rouge like but has a rouge like feature, (perma-death) is realm of the mad god (abbreviated as rotmg), it's a mmo rpg where you get loot, and you get to choose between 14 fairly unique classes with different playstyles. Although it is f2p with in app purchases, almost anything you buy can be obtained In someway such as trading or defeating bosses. I would recommend it to anyone, although I highly discourage spending any actual money on the game.
Why do I like rogue-likes? I thought about it a lot, came up with a lot of different answers. I think the biggest one is that I love survival narratives. Wilderness survival is my favorite genre of books, I love movies that get it right, and I love when I get that same feeling from games. Don't Starve is one of my all time favorites. Specifically I love the feeling of total mastery over the environment, granted exclusively through your own knowledge and experience... and then testing that knowledge when a random dice roll tries to take it all away.
I am actually a fan of the Rogue-Like with kinda-checkpoints. Like in Spelunky, where you can restart a set of stages rather than the entire game. I enjoy a good challenge but I don't want to have to grind.
+X816 Productions Yeah, so its really interesting how Spelunky does it. It gives you the option to start lower if you want, but your encouraged to start from the top because you'll get better items early on to help in the later levels (and it's the only way to get the Hell ending). Binding of Isaac for example, doesn't give you the option at all, but theres SO MANY items and variants that it's kept fresh anyway. Cool stuff
Derek Yu said in his book that he designed the Jungle to be the hardest level, and its the more intense music later in the game that makes those levels feel more difficult.
Having played Spelunky 2, I'm confident I could go back and absolutely crush this game.
I play both of them. Man after playing Spelunky 2, Spelunky seems much easier.
I've only played Isaac but oh ma glob it's great! I feel like there is an endless amount of content and that I always have a chance of having a great run! Just today I got an contract from below in floor one, loads of damage boosts, an item that made me shoot o-shaped lasers and an item that tripled the amount of lasers I shot at one time, I beat Mom's heart in about 25 seconds!
+That Nerd Specifically Yeah Isaac is pretty phenomenal, content forever
I've really only played spelunky, but keep coming back for the crazy ways you can die. One time, my friend shot a ufo, which activated a mine, blew up, and shot the mine over to him, which blew up. XD!!!
Roguelikes and newer Roguelites/likelikes are Fiero machines; they are like having a whole game that's all a boss battle. the permadeath creates the learn practice master loop which is the fundamental mechanic needed to create hard fun.
+Qwerty Charlie Yeah I love that it encourages you to learn everything about your foes if you want to succeed, and when the stakes are that high it really feels great when you beat it
This semester we're studying roguelikes and roguelites so i have made an attempt to at least finish one so i went back to FTL and started playing Hardcore Diablo 3. honestly the release you get when you win a fight or escape the sector is huge once you really get into it. Diablo is especially affected once you add the permadeath and make it a roguelite.
wow. that made me come back to spelunky!
+Butter The YoSheik Yeah I actually got back into it while recording this too haha! I'll open it up for a quick game now and then
just one more game....... i will win this time.....
oh my god its the music from the smash brothers documentary. It came from the m2k episode, I remember that series so well lmao
“Which will allow you to enter the secret area, called hell!”
Me: has PTSD to cave story’s true ending
I love this game.
Thanks for watching another episode of 'gasp' Game Design. Stay frosty, my friends!
+Cyberbrickmaster1986 lol
Nice Work! :)
+The Veesh Hey thanks :D
Hey snowman three questions:
- Favorite game?
- Job?
- Ever made a game yourself before?
-Oh boy, favorite game? DKC2 probably!
-I am a youth minister full time, and just do TH-cam when I can
-I've made a few games in Game Maker for a college class, but nothing special :)
Wait what's a Junior Minister?
Youth minister sorry if i offended u :(
Honestly, I love roguelikes because the absurd amount of loot. That’s why I loved spelunky
It’s a lot like the OG Ghosts n Goblins titles where even if you don’t make all that much progress you wanna keep on trying.. It’s quite addictive.. Although the general feel of it is more like another game I used to play called Montezumas Revenge.. Only done as a rogue like..
Can you do a series like "What went wrong..." and do various games that you feel don't achieve these principles? my personal recommendation is to start with Necropolis
this reminds me of what's with games
Great channel! Have you seen our collab (How To Design Good Mario Maker Levels)?
To me, Rougelikes has the best medium specific narrative potential. Scripted stories in games offer little else than a movie does, but every playthrough of a Roguelike provides an unique story: "I was running away from a bunch of golems and fell down a hole. Well, the golems fell down with me, and the dragon waiting down there started eating them, giving me the tine to sneak by and get even lower in the dungeon". That unique moment wouldn't have had even close to the same impact had it happenen in a scripted game.
It like chess every move counts
It makes you think more obout you choises
When I played that game the first few times, I thought I'd never get through in one run without shortcuts. And for the final shortcut, I was like "oh my god I have to carry the golden key through all these levels?" Now that seems like one of the easier tasks. xD