HEAD-To-HEAD - Flair Pro Vs Rok GC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- Putting the standard Flair and the Rock through some head to head tests with temperature stability, ease of cleaning, workflow pace, and shot quality. Check it out to see who will come out on top of these two popular hand pressed espresso machines.
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I think the reason you found the shot from the Rok to be worse than the Flair is simply heat management. With the Rok you have to run boiling water through the machine and pull blank shots 3 times and every time just leave the water in the brew chamber for 15 seconds or so. Doing that will stabilize everything in the machine and bring it all up to temp. If you do so, water coming of the shower screen should be between 199 and 202, which is perfect to me. I know that’s a little more work than average BUT you have less part to fiddle with and bring up to temp, compared to the Flair. Finally, and I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the Rok is much more aesthetically pleasing than the Flair and the fact that it has an actual portafilter is a plus. Just my opinion
I noticed that he uses a dosing funnel with the flair, but spent a ton of time fiddling with the rok without one. With a funnel the rok would be way more streamlined. The flair just seems more of a pain to use every day. Having to disassemble the thing every single time just looks annoying.
overall i think rok wins due to how easy it is to clean. Also, it actually makes a better shot if you let the water infuse with the coffee
I do believe flair is quicker if you make only 1 shot, but for some countries flair and rok are used for small coffee shop and flair is a hustle for making multiple shots as the brewing chamber is very hot and cooling it down is a problem
And rok has the portafilter which is easier to throw the puck and avoid heat from the portafilter due to the handle
You always deliver with the videos, it was the absolutely right decision to subscribe to you. I'm expecting many more to come!
Thank you my friend! I appreciate the support and the comment!
the aeropress funnel fits the rok portafilter perfectly
Great review covering what it is actually like to use the machines and the quality of the coffee, thank you. I'm looking to buy so this was really useful.
Great video! Thank you
Love our format , well done!
Love the Flair, but you've got to work to get the brewhead temp up to where it should. Two pre-heats usually needed. The newer pro heads are better designed for pre-heating, though it still takes two pours of boiling water to get it close or into the 190s where you start getting better extractions. As other posters have noted, there's no point in pulling the entire shot, unless you like watery espresso. I stop pulling as soon as it blondes out. The Flair is an effective ristretto machine if properly handled.
finally someone made this compare, i also try both too i thing for crema flair is undefeat again rok even using GC, only if you replace rok with metal chamber even pulling an old bean crema hold last longer
Great review! Just great! Plan on getting a Flair Pro soon, very excited.
That’s awesome! You won’t be disappointed!
For me I would rather buy the Rok because of the easy clean and yes the flair is fadter but I liked the workflow better with the Rok. Then I think that the espresso with the Rok could also improve when experiment more with the brewer. Thank you for your comparison nowI knowwhich one of them I wanna get.
the latest version 2012 of ROK GC have a thicker, better seal.
For ROK GC , always fill the water full in the water chamber, then press slower, but stop pressing when reach the target water qty (do not pressing until all water come out) , throw the rest water in second cup.
the speed when you pressing is affecting the brewtime.
adjust your pressing speed because we do not want the flow output going too fast. we want the brew time to have the enough time. if still feel too fast, lower the pressing power or... grind finer / add more dose to provide more coffee resistance in porta filter.
the more coffee resistance provided in the porta filter, means we must press harder.
In latest version, we could add a manometer. so we know the working brew pressure in real condition. it could reaching 12 bar.
can you make video?
Thank u~^^
Very cool. Thank you I’ve been torn between the two for a while. I’ve been leaning towards the flair and it looks like the pro is going in my letter to Santa this year!
-Joe
There's a right answer here, and you've found it.
The Flair Pro is definitely on a different level from the standard and I can’t recommend it enough.
1/ the rok chamber is also sealed when the piston is up just like flair piston in the chamber. 2/ you didn’t mention if you used the grinds of same coarseness or not. Different filter basket sizes need to use grinds of different coarseness. the same coarseness will produce thinner body on rok - that is expected, because rok filter basket is much bigger.
The chamber where the puck is would be sealed when in the upper position, but that’s what I suspect is the reason for the very slight difference between the Rok and Flair temperatures.
The coffee was a different coarseness. I dialed in each machine specifically because I was able to fit 16g in one and 17g in the other.
The Real Sprometheus you may want to check this out th-cam.com/video/2NVu7XdKUjo/w-d-xo.html -;)
@@user-tk8di2hc3b What upgades did he use on his Rok?
you give reliable and balance information about both products. I just bought rokpresso gc. I refer to james hoffman review before buying it. Sadly to say, the result is below from my personal expectation. The issue is there is no enough pressure.created by this device. Perhaps one may say I have no experience this field. Luckily, you say the truth of rokpresso. I haven't tested for flair yet. For those who want to taste the coffee below par...just bitter taste..one can choose rokpresso gc. Trying to looking around to get best manual brewing coffee device.
Thanks for the quick comparison. I imagine it takes some experimentation to get the most out of these lever machines. I use the ROK GC to make ristrettos with my Pharos grinder (20g in, 12g out). I can get pretty decent results, but not getting any crime to speak of ...(regardless of bean or freshness). But I have seen many videos of people getting good crime with the ROk (even older version). No idea how they tasted, though...
I think the Rok is likely better suited to ristretto shots. But the Flair tends to be better overall regardless of shot size.
The fiddle of getting the filter off the flair is a deal-breaker for me. I'm replacing my Presso (Rok)
As someone who owns both and has to use both in a kitchen so small i had to store them in a cupboard in another room i can say this:
The flair (or at least the classic which i have) may be quicker workflow once set up, but taking it's storage box from one room to another, emptying it, assembling it, using it, disassembling it, and then repacking it in a very specific order takes a lot long than just grabbing the ROK, using it, putting the portafilter back on then moving the whole is so much easier...I do find the flair produces better coffee more easily and reliably though.
I used the advanced techniques blog entry by Flair to correct the poor espresso shots on my RokGC. And now, all the shots are terrific!! Try it out ( waiting for an ims precision filter basket, to see if the RokGC shots improve even better)
Both are great choose what works for you.
Another win for the Flair is durability. I had the Rok for years and upgraded to a Flair (then later a Flair Signature Pro) largely because of this. Every non-metal part of my Rok was replaced at least once, and would often fail in dangerous ways. This might be better with the newer Rok, but however much I loved my Rok, I was happy to move to a device better made for multiple drinks per day.
In disagreement with some comments here, I've actually been quite pleased with the upgrades to the Flair. The Rok has depended on third parties to make things like bottomless portas and better tampers. While there has now been an official upgrade, it took years. The folks behind the Flair seem to be listening and rapidly releasing upgrades - things like bottomless portas, pressure gauges, improved baskets, etc.
How much does it cost for a fully upgraded Flair Signature Pro?
Was the Flair chamber preheated before use? Preheating makes a huge difference in quality with the Flair. Also, 160 seems a bit low for any kind of extraction, are you able to get good results with this temp?
Thanks for the review. Looking to buy one at the moment. Although your step of timing is way out, the Rok is much faster making multiple cups than the Flair is, by far. And of course the clean up. Also, you didn’t follow the rok advice which is to run a couple of pumps of boiling water through before the first cup to warm it up, which will make a massive difference to the result of the brew. And I did notice you pre warmed the flair head. So overall, your review is not objective and very biased.
I've been using the Robot. Have been very impressed. Quite quick to prep, easy to clean, and great shot. Only preheating I'm doing is placing the portafilter and basket in my boiling water while I grind.
Here’s a question. I have a vintage Caravel Arrarex which is a 1960’s hand lever-it comes completely apart and probably isn’t much bigger than Flair. It pulls amazing tiny shots. It can operate without electricity by just filling the reservoir with an electric kettle. Which would you prefer for nomadic life-style? (Flair looks great, albeit a hassle. Only thing is the temp. I don’t think it’s possible to pull a 93 C shot.)
How does the Cafelat Robot compare with these two espresso makers?
Is a stainless steel or copper or brass hot water chamber available for the Rok?
Can you use a standard Porta-Filter 58 mm basket with the ROK?
Awesome video, nice to see the signature base model in a review! I bought the pressure gauge kit and got an even better temperature handling. I use between 17.3g and 18.5g depending on the beans (Niche grinder) - therefore I have to do a bit more stomping before tampering :) but the results show a grater variety in taste! With the pressure gauge kit the opening and cleaning is also much easier, due to the pressure release, when the gauge is removed- all in all for me the flair wins in every category (to the shame of my ROK-colleague, who faced me in a 1:1 comparison) 😈
When do you use your different Flairs in everyday life?
Thanks Martin!
My Flairs tend to come out on the occasion I want to control pressure profiling or experiment with a coffee. My Mini is still my daily use machine, although I do love my Flairs.
Cool review, but I don't understand your temp stability test. Did you preheat as per instructions? I find with the Flair it holds heat very well due to the heavy stainless cylinder providing you preheat correctly. I've owned both and for me, the Flair is way more capable of producing great espresso. The Flair is also much safer to use although I believe ROK have improved the cylinder/piston material.
Yes, the gc chamber must be hot, and i use the upgrade shower seal and distribution tamper, it work great with the espresso has Tiger stripes on it
Thanks for watching! Yeah, I preheated both chambers for the same amount of time prior to testing each before and after. I did have the expectation that the the Flair would hold heat better, I’m sure there would be a clear winner if it was the Flair Pro since the brew head is so much heavier and thicker. Holds heat substantially better.
You’re correct though, I find the Flair to be the superior machine. But, that’s just my opinion. There are clearly some diehard Rok fans on here who disagree.
cool!
Hi Spro. Thx for the comparaison. I do have the Flair Signature but I can get my hand on a ROK New for 60 bucks. I have watch a video from a french dealer and they say that the ROK is crazy for making ristretto. The technique is quite suprising though as they push down the levers as crazy I mean really fast and they say to forget the usual espresso standards .... I am really curious about this now 🙂
I have both the Rok and the Flair Pro. I very much prefer the Flair, I can squeeze almost 24 grams of coffee into it and get super results. The recently purchased Lyn Weber HG-1 contributes greatly. Presently I am about to order the GC upgrade and bottomless portafilter for the ROK, it will be interesting to see how that goes. The devices are at two different locations and with different grinders so a direct comparison is not possible. In the UK the price difference is substantial, £149 for the Rok and £299 for the Flair Pro.
I havs rok with gc chamber, new 2020 filter seal, metal tamper and distribution tool, espresso work amazing, and it has Tiger stripes. Check on my video
Oh yeah the Flair Pro is an easy winner over the Rok. That’s why I used the standard Flair brew head for this comparison. Also because like you mentioned the cost difference is pretty substantial.
hello how are your coffees? I am deciding and leaning towards rok for easier workflow and coffee dose seems bigger? standard flair seems small. I put lot of coffee into aeropress. need to drink strong coffee....let me know your latest review or rok gc. thanks
7:16 I'm certain that your tamp with the coffee still going up the sides didn't do you any favors here
Great review, thank you for this.
No need for a second video on this but, what are your thoughts about flair base and pro models? Espresso quality wise, since considering the other parts, I'm assuming pro will win due to pressure gauge alone.
But does it actually produce a superior quality espresso?
I'm a hard advocate of the Flair Signature Pro.
The larger basket and the gauge alone eliminate a number of variables, and the more solid brew group gets a really nice preheat.
The other day I wanted to preheat it and I took it outside for something else and it stayed hot in the 37F weather for a decent amount of time.
When it all comes down to it, it's about priorities. Do you need a coffee scale? No, but it makes you more consistent. Do you need a pro? No, but it eliminates most of the issues addressed in the video and IMO most of the variables associated with espresso.
The Flair Pro and Standard are definitely pretty different. I would say overall the bigger portafilter, pressure gauge, and more temp stable brew head are the best features on it. I’d say the espresso from the pro just has more of that indescribable “cafe quality” feel to it, but that could just be in my head.
I get what you’re saying, no one likes to be nickel and dimed. I will say in defense of Flair they are kind of from a grass roots program so I’m sure they needed that extra capital to continuing to improve upon the design. My guess is Cafelat will likely come out with upgrades and whatnot down the line.
Not sure how you’re getting such poor shots from the Rok, tbh. I consistently get high-quality balanced shots that nail the tasting notes, have rich crema and great mouthfeel, and zero complaints! Sure, not every shot is perfect, but getting weak no-crema shots is not easy. Treat like a “real” espresso machine, dial it in accordingly, and quality shots will follow in short order. Good starting point is to find the grind setting that chokes it with an 18-19g dose, then back off a click or two from there and try again. If you’re not getting top-shelf shots from the Rok, it’s definitely user-focused, not the machine itself.
Damien Leer can you,please help me dial in my rock? I’m using fresh roasted beans, a conical burr, but everything coming out is sour.
Valerie Hird, grind is probably too coarse. Start by grinding finer, until you’re hitting your target yield within your target time range. If it’s still sour, either grind finer, or run the shot longer.
You need to preinfuse.
First i do 5 light pumps to preinfuse the coffee.. Then i count to 5-10 ( dark roast 5 and light roast 10 ) and then i pull the shot. PURE CREMA ON THE ROK.
Or look at the grinding settings .
I get really consistent good shots with my Rok as well. I pre-infuse for 15 seconds and finish the shot around 30 seconds, excellent crema, good mouth feel, steady stream if I tamp well, nice acidity etc.
Damien Leer what’s your extraction time?
P.S. what grinder were you using in this video?
RokGC had better water dispersion when you add puck screen which distribute pressure and water evenly similar to flair. And use metal tamp for it to be able to tamp it better than plastic one then using boiled water due to how fast it cool off. For 9 bar from beginning to end extraction you need lot of strength to do so but its put some strain to bayonet ring and porta ear. Because Rok had weak parts especially in bayonet ring and portafilter ear that you twist to tighten to group, you need to change that both first if you had option to do that, so you able to push it to the limit. For grind size if you already had experience with espresso machine before, try the grind size which you can choke your machine to 10-12 bar. Seems that grind size somehow suitable for rok presso GC. If you still using that clear chamber one, change that to newer black chamber one
Temp should be @ 180F. There is a technique to cleaning cleaning the flair... have pressure gauge attachment. Remove the pressure gauge, and you can easily separate the brewing elements. The new portafilter screen is much easier to remove, but you pushed the screen down INTO the portafilter. Just place the screen so its rim is sitting on the portafilter’s edge. Then, removing it for cleaning is so much easier.
The ease of use wins for me with ROK if you can dial in a good shot and have the right grinder...just a though on the workflow though...step 3 notice you rightly added a preheat shot in the rok....to get the temp stable...but did not on the flair....was this forgotten because it would add quite a bit of time overalll
Is the flair seal that you put on top of the puck supposed to go that fair in? I always put it on and the rubber is on top of the metal lip. Not like all the way inside. Am I doing it wrong?
Which also makes it easier to remove*
That’s a good question. Having the Flair Pro as well the screen rests on top of the grounds, so I was under the impression the standard screen is supposed to do the same thing.
The squad at Flair have watched the video and have yet to correct me on it, so there may be multiple ways of doing it.
The Real Sprometheus have the guys at rok seen the vid and given any pointers on how to make some proper shots? As I have seen a video with better shots than flair?
Don't forget the comparison of cleaning
I think he need to play with the rok more, my espresso with rok produce amazing shot, it has Tiger stripes too. Little upgrade rok comes with new 2020 filter seal, gc composite 2020, metal tamper and distribution tool. And it's amazing
Pakai chamber GC terbaru ya? Yang bawahnya udah rata dan shower screen tebal? Hasil ekstraksinya gimana?
I had the machine for about a month and feel like I got a pretty solid view on how each perform. Using an upgraded version would nullify the video because it’s supposed to be putting two machines of similar cost head to head.
@@insomniafuel000 nah iya, dengan yang versi 2020 kita bisa pake gilingan yg lebih halus karna filter seal nya lebih tebal jadi ga akan bocor biarpun Grind size lebih halus, hasil Extrasi lebih tebel menurut gw sih udah ok, cuman belum semepet compared dengan Flair pro.
@@Sprometheus yea i should try flair pro
@@Sprometheus no doubt ofr extraction result, flair is better than rok presso. But here in indonesia, for mid to low size coffee shop or coffee stall, they use a manual espresso, and rok presso provide the best workflow efficiency because the fortafilter thing. Imho
Love this comparison. Can you review the Flair Pro 2 vs Cafelat Robot?
Thank you, and it’s coming soon!
What is your rating of taste for FLAIR pro? Maybe you can determine some importance level for the parameters: shot: 0.55; T stability: 0.21; workflow pace: 0.13; ease of cleaning: 0,11.
I have both and the Flair absolutely smashes the Rok in all but one area. The Rok is easier to clean and pull multiple shots. Otherwise the coffee quality is massively better with the flair.
what would have the best workflow for serving multiple shots in one session? looks to me that the rok would have easier repeat workflow. since it finicky to work with the flair for successive multi shots.
that's what I am deciding as well. rok or flair. I like rok you can put more coffee, seem easier to clean, flair has better shot, but smaller dose, and hassle to clean...
I know this is an old video but I'm confused by your technique for the ROK - why did it take so long to load the filter basket? I use a funnel and it takes seconds but even without a funnel it shouldn't take 5 fills, which appears to be where you wasted the most time.
Try and get your hands on a Cafelat Robot, I think it will trump both these manual espresso machines.
Definitely trying to track one down locally before I drop $400 on it. But it’ll happen.
Tastewise Robot and Flair (even with the classic) are comparable, Rok is below both of them. The decision between Flair and Robot much more about portability (Flair wins), workflow (Robot wins), price (Flair wins), or parts availability in the long run (Robot wins).
Cool review, just one question, did you try different Espressos like lighter or darker roast?
Thanks Marcus! For this review I used the same coffee on both in an effort to keep things fair across the board, especially when it came to the espresso quality test.
Yay! My flair wins especially on shot quality! Thank you. Love the video itself. ( no bias there )
For small batch or personal use should i buy the flair or KF6002 (budget) espresso machine?
I’ve never used the KF6002, but it looks like it has a steam wand. Which the Flair doesn’t have. But I’m sure the Flair will most likely last longer, and possibly make better espresso.
@@Sprometheus ah ok i see, thanks for the reply. i've heard reviews that the steam wand from KF6002 isn't really that good so i guess i'll buy flair 😄
The flair is an awe full design to clean, to a point where it’s not worth it, also you didn’t appear to pre heat or pre-infuse, the rok specifically needs to preinfuse, apply pressure a third of the way then stop for a few seconds then continue
do you have both? I am deciding which one to get
Works amazing for the price and it’s cute and small
Cut the head off an old toothbrush and sand the remaining handle to a flat chisel or point makes a good lifting tool for flair basket
As you're using the flair with the standard group head, pressurised portafilter and no pressure gauge, isn't this a comparison of the flair classic/neo rather than the pro as the title states?
The manufacturers and the other Reviewers ran 220 F water through the ROK, 3x. When you review a machine, I think you should use it according to directions from the manufacturer or state why you're method is even better that suggested.
I have the Flair and so far I like it. My only problem is finding a grinder that works best for the Flair, any recommendations?
Robert Segura great choice! What grinder are you using now? I highly recommend a grinder that is purpose built for espresso. You need a high level of adjustment to properly dial in.
Try 1Zpresso, Minos, Mila2 these works best
@@Sprometheus I'm thinking of getting the Baratza Sette 30 or the 270, but the 270 is more money. I have also looked at the Rok Grinder and Orphan Espresso Lido 3, both of these are under $200.00. Thanks for the reply.
@@speakeasy_hann985 Thanks, I'll look them up.
@@robertsegura6451 Kinu M47, Helor 101, and Knock grinders are pretty good for espresso too. What grinders have you owned now?
Great review but add Celsius as well as it's only america with a backwards metric system
Subtract 32 and divide it in half.
Nice video. To be honest, I'll probably never get either one of these, but I enjoyed watching in use, if that makes any sense.
One question: Does espresso from a hand pull machine taste very different from espresso from a semi automatic machine?
Thanks Jason. I get you. To be honest no hand machine will ever replace a pump driven machine for me, but they are great for experimenting and traveling.
To answer your question I have to say the espresso quality on the Flair is pretty close to a machine. There is some kind of difference that’s really hard to describe. Slightly textural. Worth trying if you get a shot.
@@Sprometheus probably the temperature difference. a quality espresso machine is going to be pumping 190° water and your group heads going to be really hot. Whereas these machines as you pointed out are 160ish.
So you'll lose some of the larger starchy sugars that haven't been broken down by the roasting process. They really don't have much flavor they just add body. So if you're going to add milk anyway I don't think most people would notice.
Flair + Kruve Propel glass = yum! 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
It definitely is quite a pair!
How much is the retail price of the Flair?
Of course the Flair is quicker when the puzzle of pieces is pre assembled 🤔
😅 So very true.
I'd like to see making 3 in a row with all the parts included. The fair looks way complicated compared to the rok (presso)
I was wondering why preheating of the cylinder is necessary? What will happen if we don't preheat it?
It helps you maintain a higher heat when you put in your brew water. I’ve got a video coming out soon that will talk about how temperature of the brew water will effect the flavor (extraction) of your espresso.
@@Sprometheus Thanks, I'll watch the video.
Is your coffee grind not too fine? You seem very hard to press the ROK and Flair.
rokpresso are workhorse not only home use, it actually for some indonesian coffee riders around the street selling espresso or base drinks, sometime they make drifting style latte art in the corner using their mokapot base modification milk steamer, you should try pretty good lol
I don't know why so many Indonesians love Rok. Without modification, Rok is not that good. I think Rok did a very very good job on branding here in Indonesia especially for people who want to jumpstart low-budget coffee shops. I think Flair just can't penetrate the market so well like Rok did. I rarely see a coffee shop uses it
@@dwikafebrianto3016 it's the setup time for multiple shots. Just brewing for me the flair, for sure. Maybe a couple shots.
If I had to brew 10 20 30 shots, the rok all day. You just knock the Porta filter, add more coffee, pour more water and keep pressing. And the portafilter is basically what a barista would already be used to using. Makes a lot of sense.
The flare in a cafe would be very slow. You have to take the whole machine apart pop out all the filter thingies and there's lots of parts that can fall off and get lost.
@@JC-fj7oo There is a workaround for Flair. Just get several of its brew chambers, maybe 4 of them. And get better ckeaning them after use. I bet those 30 shots Rokpresso is for stocking purpose which will not be that fresh later but the customers don't complain I guess
@@dwikafebrianto3016 buying multiple machines isn't exactly a workaround.
if you want the best possible espresso for one or two people get the flair.
If you want to make a bunch of pretty good shots that are probably going in the milk anyway, get the Rok.
@@JC-fj7oo In case it isn't clear, I didn't mean that one should buy two or more Flairs. I mean just buy two to four of its brew chamber, you got me? It's like getting two or more portafilters. You're right tho, Rokpresso is efficient enough when it comes to stocking espressos
Years ago I was so close to buying a Rok, but from what I could see the shots weren’t great. Recently bought a Flair (standard) and am seriously considering passing on my PID’d Silvia and using the Flair exclusively!
Yeah the Rok just didn’t live up to the Flair in most respects. It absolutely creates a great shot. It isn’t going to take the counter space my Linea occupies any time soon, but it’s a great machine for sure.
@@Sprometheus You can't compare your Linea with his Silvia. Linea is pretty much a beast at home.
(mind the price diff. of ROK GC vs Flair Pro) was considering buyin a Flair Neo, Or The Rok GC , but am a cheap fuk yet, so I am still faking shots with my Aeropress. When I quit being a cheaper ass I am to get a ROK
Can the ROK be modified for a better quality coffee?
Doesn’t need to be modified, just dialled in and used properly like every espresso machine. This video is really not an exemplary use of the ROK.
Add puck screen might be help. Then grind a bit finer than standard espresso machine works
Everytime I see a head to head comparison about these two brands, I can’t help but feel there’s a certain bias towards the Flair. Like people aren’t even trying to get it right with the Rok, even after the GC update which solves a lot of 1st gen issues. I’ve seen longterm Rok users make amazing shots with it, not this subpar result that we see here. Makes me wonder if it’s also the case that the Rok isn’t being dialled in and used properly more often than not.
Well let’s for a moment say you’re correct. This just means the Flair is more user friendly and has a wider margin for error, which again in my book is a benefit of the Flair over the Rok.
I explicitly said that this is something I've noticed in more than one review, not just this one - no need for defensiveness. I actually enjoy your content, not to mention a lot of other commenters noted the same thing. If we had to be objective about user-friendliness, the Flair has way too many set up steps in comparison to the ROK and cleaning up is also finicky in comparison. Afaik dialling-in an espresso is necessary with any machine, so I don't see why it should be held against the ROK.
There are some homeworks for rok to be able as good as flair. And I found very few user in the west like US or EU which looking more info about its use harder. But for some start add puck screen, heavy metalic tamper, new hardened stainless portafilter, and non ori hardened bayonet ring then grind abit finer than standard espresso machine give you ability to be able to push it to the limit
It's flair pro or neo?
Pls, make the contest
How many shot in 1hour for all
Sharing my personal use extra tips for you guys, when pulling the flair i do not push the cylinder down at all, so you will have extra water into it then to remove the flair coffee puck i like to blow the portafilter spout and the pucks just comeout very easy everytime to clean it 😂
Great content as always.
Here are a few of my own thoughts on the two.
I have the Flair and I really want a handle for the portafilter.
I do wish the Rok had a pressure gauge. I know it's not necessary, once you have some practice you probably wouldn't use it as much anyway. But it's more for pressure profiling and ease of mind that I am at the pressure I want to be at.
One trick to get the shower screen out on the flair is to use your finger to push down closer to the edge on one side of it. This will raise the other side of the screen without you having to dig into the seal to get it out.
I'm curious to know what you mean when saying that the standard group head is a better comparison to the Rok. I have the standard version. To my knowledge the pro group head is larger so it holds more water and it also comes with a bottomless style "basket". The pro does also come with a pressure gauge it that's what you're referring to. I really like that they sold a separate pressure gauge kit for the classic version. If there's another difference, I'd love to know what it is.
I'm also very interested in the robot that James reviewed recently.
I don't use my Flair much but I'm glad I bought it.
Great tip on the shower screen removal. That’s how I would get out the screen on the Pro head since it doesn’t have the rubber seal.
So when I said it’s a better comparison it has a lot to do with the things you mentioned. Plus; it’s about the cost. The Rok and standard Flair a bit more comparable in terms of cost. But the pro head is heavier and more temp stable as well. Overall it’s a big upgrade from the standard in my opinion.
I also want to get my hands on that Robot!
but rok is more fun if you did some modification on it like most of indonesia user do and at the same not much to do on flair even classic ver crema is good
What modifications? I just got the rok, I liked the workflow better. I would like to hear what modifications are available for the rok.
@@chrisbeaneofficial check out @somedaysomehow_project at IG
@@chrisbeaneofficial yes you can just replace with metal chamber/plunger or add a gauge and custom more parts from the swingarms to brew head with 58mm portafilter with IMS/VST basket can be made for fun even engrave your name on it but a bit pricey !
Have you tried the robot?
I haven’t yet! I want to. It’s a goal on my Patreon for sure.
Rok GC or Tok GC?
You gotta try hugh leverpresso!
how is it? I was thinking about it, but waiting a month from korea is too long
@@martinkulik9466 I know, a bit of a pain but definetey worth it though!
@@t0niu why? it looks it's not very durable and saw not good reviews. you have rok to compare?
@@martinkulik9466 nope, i havent tried the rok and yes, it doesnt look very durable but ive been using it every day for almost 2 years and still rock and rolling. Its fair to say you will have to practice a bit to get a nice espresso but once you learn to use it properly its an absolute gem
Team Flair!
This comparison (with all its advantages and quality involved) does not fully represent the quality of espresso. If you use Rok, you will never get an espresso without a thick crema or as a sour drink. The test result represent insufficient experience with the Rok. Fresh coffee, selected variety (I use Kimbo Espresso Napoli), 16 grams of coffee, high-quality grind, double heating of the portafilter, cup and entire machine with boiling water, brewing time (15 seconds without pressure with the handles raised and up to 15 seconds of pressure), 20- 25 grams of espresso. When this becomes a routine, it always turns out to be 9+/10. “New version” piston upgrade is a must. All IMHO
I completely agree! It seems like this user is not nearly as dialed in with how to use to Rok. You can get beautiful, thick crema with tiger striping easily if you dial in your method. The pre-infuse here was not long enough and the tamp was sloppy IMO.
Also, I believe the "spurting" mentioned in this video is from the sprouted portafilter, not the pressure seal. My experience is that the Rok has a very consistent flow rate using a naked portafilter (which may not have been available when this video was made).
Aside from that, thanks for the video! Overall great and useful information.
What do you mean flair is 17g max?...
Espresso Quality: Portaspresso Rossa / Espresso Forge / Cafelat Robot / Flair > Rok
ROK has better customer service and will upgrade units even from 20 years ago.
Many more people in the world now use Celsius and not Fahrenheit. The only major country that uses Fahrenheit today is the United States, which has a population of around 0.35 billion as compared to the world population of around 7 billion.
Tell that to my analytics that shows over 50% of my views come from the US
Please put subtitles translating temperature from °F to °C.
not fair compare use the right tamper not a spoon :(( u tamp real good with flair
Doesn’t it bother you Americans when measuring water temperature in a scale that ISN’T Celsius? I mean, it’s literally based on boiling (and frozen) water. Seems like it would be worth the switch!
We're smart enough to do the math.
I prefer Flair as well..but I see unfair test on the workflow pace, u preheat rok, didn't preheat the flair.
And also the most disturbing test is the cleaning.
U can clean all the parts completely on the Flair. While on the rok, u can't. U just haven't tried to open up and see how dirty it can get inside the water chamber on the rok, and it is THE MOST PAIN IN THE ASS, you need to open it up like u open up some car machine on your own, u need screwdriver and all your fuckin day to open it clean it and ASSEMBLE it all BACK. The rok is a disgusting machine.
If you watch closely on the left hand side of the screen I preheat the chamber for the Flair. So no unfairness there.
Next up, what you mentioned falls into more of a maintenance realm, not a just a standard cleaning after a shot or two. I don’t backflush and take apart my group on my Mini after every shot. So that doesn’t really count as a part of the test.
Thanks for watching!
with ROK all you need to do is take out the silicon showscreen and wash the water chamber in a sink. Most of time there isn't much to wash. Not sure why your ROK got so dirty.
I had the roc before. Difficult machine and NEVER gave a good shot. Fortunately I was able to sell it. Good riddance! I will one day get the flair
Do people still think ‘tiger stripes’ matter?
Is there a video about that that explain the phenomena?
Imperial... God... as if...
the flair do preform more consistently than the rok
but the workflow point should not go to the flair.
it doesn't get any more easier or faster than the rok to pull a shot and clean it.
In the end the workflow depends on the person, but in timing it for me the Flair came out on top. But 40 seconds isn’t a huge amount of difference, and probably won’t change whether a person buys one or the other.
@@Sprometheus I found it weird that you'd pull apart the Flair on the counter top. I know it was partly for filming purposes, but it literally takes me 6-8 seconds in the sink. Wiggle/pull apart the portafilter at an angle and let the water fall in the sink... Why are you trying to catch it in a cup? The screen falls right out and then use the upside down tamper (also in the sink) to push out the piston, knocks grounds, quick rinse and done. Including knocking out the grounds it takes probably 12-18 seconds.
but the flair is sooo tedious to clean tho.....
You and another guy with glasses, just promoting the flair ....
The better is the one that makes the best coffee ,all others comparaison are null.
The best coffee is a very subjective thing and depends from person to person.
@@Sprometheus you know that moment when you drink your coffee and say "here's it,that kiss taste" and then, tomorrow, the taste is gone and it's not the same anymore but like magic two days later that lusty coffee taste came back and you keep cycling between, with same coffee bag.
Just not true. Workflow and costs are important. Size...
There's a reason I don't have a fully automatic industrial espresso machine in my kitchen.
There's also ease of use. I haven't had my coffee yet I need a machine that's easy to use.
How much space does it take up on the counter? Does it fold? Does it look nice on the counter? Or is it something that I'm going to put in a cabinet somewhere and forget about.
Is it easy to clean?
Can you do multiple shots?
There's a lot more that goes into it than just "quality of shot"
@@JC-fj7oo sure what you said is true but remember people are here kind wasting their time cause they already wasted lot of money on coffee beans and machines ( I have 6 pro coffee machines ) but I use what I call the best maker, it's forgiving machine so even you rush and kind do it wrong ,you end up with good coffee but other even you give time and try you best dial ,a little secret part in them keeps bad.
I have rok and i have not found a better taste for my cup. Worse and worse taste everyday.