I thought you were going to talk about waiting for the hot end to cool so you don't get jams. Or making sure the stepper drivers are powered down so a transient doesn't kill a stepper driver. The shutdown command flushes the write cache to the mass storage device. As a speedup Unix and most other operating systems will delay writing to the disk device in order to speed up access to the device. On mainframes (called cloud servers these days) this hardly ever matters because the mainframes are never turned off. Before the shutdown command was invented the operator would do three commands to flush the cache. sync;sync;haltsys. The first sync would schedule the write and the second sync would force it to happen. The haltsys is self explanatory. But this should never happen because the cache flush should take place within a few milliseconds after the disk system is detected to be idle. Marlin would not typically have an OS and would not cache writes to the mass storage device which is why this would not be an issue there. The OS could be hardened up to help prevent this if the people distributing it understood the final purpose. It is a rare enough thing that they don't bother and don't even understand the issue. Another possibility is that the flash memory found in SD and micro SD cards have a finite number of write cycles. Typically this will be somewhere between 10000 and 100000 writes and when that limit is reached then the device can no longer store info. Another issue with Flash memory is that it has a limit on how long it can retain data. If you write some data and then put the device in a safe place it will not be reliably readable in somewhere between 5 and 20 years. Modern Solid State Drives can have wear leveling algorithms that will detect failing flash cells and work around it. I have also read they will refresh themselves if powered on to push off the inevitable but I have no idea how you would prove that a particular device actually does this. SD and micro SD cards do not have enough smarts in them to do this refresh. Improperly designed hardware where a write could be accidently be triggered as the power goes down. In the old days you would always spin down the drives and remove the media (floppy disk or hard disk platter) before removing the power to prevent corruption.
Qidi printers are "supposed" to be able to be just powered off, but yes, it's always better to shut them down, just like a laptop or desktop PC, you don't just kill the power. BTW QIDI will tell you that you need to buy a new eMMC card, you don't, all you need is the adaptor to plug the eMMC that is already in your printer into a USB port, the images are on the QIDI site for free download. The reason that Marlin printers can be just turned off is because they don't have a secondary MCU such as a Pi connected to them often, you can add a Pi but the printer board itself doesn't need shutting down first. Klipper printers all need a secondary MCU like a Pi, or in the case of ones like the QIDI it's an all in one board that includes the MCU, so they always cope better with a graceful shutdown. You're not a dumbass, it's only obvious once you know :)
Oops. I've been hitting the switch on my rooted K1 Max for over a year and it never occurred to me I should be powering it down through Klipper. That's a bone-head move on my part because I should know better. I always go through the software shutdown on my older printers running Octoprint because I zoinked one of my Raspberry Pi's flipping the switch. Thanks for sharing.
I don't run Klipper on my N3P. There is no such down process other than flipping the main power switch. I do allow the printer to cool before doing this.
3D printers with Klipper installed run a web service. You can access a UI called Fluidd/Mainsail via a web browser on your pc or phone when connected to the same network. Of course, this only works if the printer is connected via wifi or ethernet.
I don't know what Neptune 4 you have. But the Neptune 4 have a super cap for the power loss detection, And this interrupt for the power loss will also trigger a filesystem sync. For me, I'm always just turn off my Neptune 4 just with the switch. But I wait just 5-10sec after the printer is idle before I switch it off. (Haven't any problem with a corrupt file system)
Not every printer has this (though mine do) but I've literally never used the feature and have had zero issues. For you to have so many issues seems more like a user error, hate to say it. Not sure what you're doing, but that isn't normal. At all. Also I run my two main printers on their own IoT plug. It monitors the power consumption and when it drops below a set amount (I think I made it 15w, but somewhere near there) for a set amount of time (think it's ten minutes), it cuts off. It gives the printer time to properly cool before the power is cut if I'm not going to be doing more prints right away. And also time to clear the bed and start another print if I am.
I've learned a lot about printers from your "dumb" mistakes, so I guess thanks for letting me know what I am doing is also dumb. I know have to find a way to automate the shutdown process instead of just turning off the smart switch.
It's beyond my ability. Coding not my bag. But... could one install a simple push button switch that when pressed would send a shutdown signal to klipper and then trigger the actual shutdown process within the OS? It could even double as an emergency off switch. But just press the button and klipper would react as if you went through the menu. Possible?
I couldn’t find a shutdown option on my K1 Max so maybe they don’t have that feature and you just flip the switch and pray it boots up properly the next time? 🤷♂️🙏
![Toybox 3D printer. 1-Touch Kid-Friendly Childrens Toy Printer [544]](/img/n.gif)
It all depends on the storage medium on the main board. eMMC memory will not corrupt, sd card will.
I thought you were going to talk about waiting for the hot end to cool so you don't get jams. Or making sure the stepper drivers are powered down so a transient doesn't kill a stepper driver.
The shutdown command flushes the write cache to the mass storage device. As a speedup Unix and most other operating systems will delay writing to the disk device in order to speed up access to the device. On mainframes (called cloud servers these days) this hardly ever matters because the mainframes are never turned off. Before the shutdown command was invented the operator would do three commands to flush the cache. sync;sync;haltsys. The first sync would schedule the write and the second sync would force it to happen. The haltsys is self explanatory. But this should never happen because the cache flush should take place within a few milliseconds after the disk system is detected to be idle. Marlin would not typically have an OS and would not cache writes to the mass storage device which is why this would not be an issue there. The OS could be hardened up to help prevent this if the people distributing it understood the final purpose. It is a rare enough thing that they don't bother and don't even understand the issue.
Another possibility is that the flash memory found in SD and micro SD cards have a finite number of write cycles. Typically this will be somewhere between 10000 and 100000 writes and when that limit is reached then the device can no longer store info. Another issue with Flash memory is that it has a limit on how long it can retain data. If you write some data and then put the device in a safe place it will not be reliably readable in somewhere between 5 and 20 years. Modern Solid State Drives can have wear leveling algorithms that will detect failing flash cells and work around it. I have also read they will refresh themselves if powered on to push off the inevitable but I have no idea how you would prove that a particular device actually does this. SD and micro SD cards do not have enough smarts in them to do this refresh.
Improperly designed hardware where a write could be accidently be triggered as the power goes down. In the old days you would always spin down the drives and remove the media (floppy disk or hard disk platter) before removing the power to prevent corruption.
In some iterations of screen you may be able to find the host shutdown option in the system menu.
Good to know, cause I just got the SV08 in the mail and I haven't seen that anywhere. Thanks
Qidi printers are "supposed" to be able to be just powered off, but yes, it's always better to shut them down, just like a laptop or desktop PC, you don't just kill the power. BTW QIDI will tell you that you need to buy a new eMMC card, you don't, all you need is the adaptor to plug the eMMC that is already in your printer into a USB port, the images are on the QIDI site for free download. The reason that Marlin printers can be just turned off is because they don't have a secondary MCU such as a Pi connected to them often, you can add a Pi but the printer board itself doesn't need shutting down first. Klipper printers all need a secondary MCU like a Pi, or in the case of ones like the QIDI it's an all in one board that includes the MCU, so they always cope better with a graceful shutdown. You're not a dumbass, it's only obvious once you know :)
Oops. I've been hitting the switch on my rooted K1 Max for over a year and it never occurred to me I should be powering it down through Klipper. That's a bone-head move on my part because I should know better. I always go through the software shutdown on my older printers running Octoprint because I zoinked one of my Raspberry Pi's flipping the switch. Thanks for sharing.
Have you figured it out yet, I have the same setup
@@Camaro45th Nope. Everything I've found so far says just flip the switch on a rooted K1 Max.
I don't run Klipper on my N3P. There is no such down process other than flipping the main power switch. I do allow the printer to cool before doing this.
What do you mean go to the backend before you turn off the printer?
3D printers with Klipper installed run a web service. You can access a UI called Fluidd/Mainsail via a web browser on your pc or phone when connected to the same network. Of course, this only works if the printer is connected via wifi or ethernet.
I don't know what Neptune 4 you have.
But the Neptune 4 have a super cap for the power loss detection,
And this interrupt for the power loss will also trigger a filesystem sync.
For me, I'm always just turn off my Neptune 4 just with the switch.
But I wait just 5-10sec after the printer is idle before I switch it off.
(Haven't any problem with a corrupt file system)
Not every printer has this (though mine do) but I've literally never used the feature and have had zero issues. For you to have so many issues seems more like a user error, hate to say it. Not sure what you're doing, but that isn't normal. At all.
Also I run my two main printers on their own IoT plug. It monitors the power consumption and when it drops below a set amount (I think I made it 15w, but somewhere near there) for a set amount of time (think it's ten minutes), it cuts off. It gives the printer time to properly cool before the power is cut if I'm not going to be doing more prints right away. And also time to clear the bed and start another print if I am.
Well I learned something new. I've always just flipped the switch.
Never even thought of doing this but at the same time I haven’t had any issues
TBH same here
You turn it off? But then how do you print 24/7?
I finally took a vacation after 4 years. 😂👍
dont forget the heat spike in the hotend melting the teflon in threr
I switch mine off at the plug via alexa! Oops! But great for switching on and starting a print while away!
I've learned a lot about printers from your "dumb" mistakes, so I guess thanks for letting me know what I am doing is also dumb. I know have to find a way to automate the shutdown process instead of just turning off the smart switch.
It's beyond my ability. Coding not my bag. But... could one install a simple push button switch that when pressed would send a shutdown signal to klipper and then trigger the actual shutdown process within the OS? It could even double as an emergency off switch. But just press the button and klipper would react as if you went through the menu. Possible?
click bait, didn't say how to turn off printer
I think on Bambu the only choice is to just turn it off
My K1 Max appears that way as well. 🤔🤷♂️
It's like Taylor Swift said. It's me, I'm the problem.
You're supposed to turn off your printer? For safety reasons?
I leave mine on like all the time 99%
got creality K1 few days ago and this thing bother me.. but i didn't find any mention that is incorrect so i turn off every time when i done printing
I couldn’t find a shutdown option on my K1 Max so maybe they don’t have that feature and you just flip the switch and pray it boots up properly the next time? 🤷♂️🙏
@@OuterRimArmorer The option exist on a rooted printer with mainsail.
Sitting here crying in Marlin.
I remember the marlin days. I think I still have one in a box here somewhere. 🤔
Its a computer..... duh.