Great video as always. Do you have one where you go into the finer points of weight distribution for different points of sail? It was interesting to see you calling out when to move forward and back in this video. If not that may be an idea for a future episode of Joyrider TV. I'm still learning!
The bow of the 16 is sharp and digs deep into the water. this allows it to act as a dagger board, which helps the boat track laterally while sailing upwind if you move forward and sink the bow in. The more you need to pinch to hold your lane, the deeper you want to sink the bow. Downwind, you don't really need that additional lateral resistance; the rudders provide plenty on their own. Additionally, the boat has a greater tendency to nosedive downwind, so you need to go weight back and pop the bow out a bit to counter that. At higher downwind speeds, you are planing harder, so you don't care as much about sacrificing waterline because you definitely won't be displacing and a small planinng surface is adequate at those speeds. Also, moving forward rakes the rig up, powering the boat up, which is desirable when you have a lower/closer angle of attack on the sails, and moving back rakes the rig back, depowering as you build apparent wind with your greater/broader angle of attack... Basically, high performance boats experience a higher apparent wind speed when they are going downhill, because the boatspeed vector adds to the true wind vector, so the need to depower becomes greater. of course, in light winds, when the boat cannot plane downwind, you once again want to sink the bow knuckle deep in the water, to power up the rig and extend the waterline for optimal displacement
@@JoyriderTV Such a simple change... KIS (keep it simple) is always the best. It is always better when you changed something and get a result than when suddenly it got better and no one knows why, because then you also don't know what you did when it does NOT work anymore.
A high speeds in the 16 and 18, have you ever heard your rudders "sing?" Yes they can. When not perfectly aligned (and the rudders never are) rapid vibrations occur and a high pitch noise results. When I hear them sing I know I'm going really fast. What about you and the other fine folks that visit this channel? kind regards,
When taking the "ultimate photograph" from the tiller cam (at the 1:45 mark), it appears that you may need a cod piece. Preferably one made out of plastic or metal (for protection).
The 16s seem to be extremely touchy on the rudder. Does e.g. the Tiger have the same issue? Except the out-of-shape rudder on the problem boat I do not hear you discussing that on the biggies.
And as usual a nerdy thought comparing boats with planes: A daggerboard cat has a long narrow "wing" that creates the lift, and the "airflow" (waterflow) is pretty smooth behind such a wing, so a smooth wake towards the rudder. There is a vortex forming from the air/water streaming from the high-pressure leeward side to the low-pressure windward side, but that is only at the tip, and I could imagine that this vortex is below the tip of the rudder. Enter Hobie 16. Its hull shape is more like a delta wing. A delta wing is very long and the wingspan is narrow, and the wind creates lift mainly by a (comparably to a narrow-wing) large angle of attack, that causes a LARGE vortex to form along the leading edge of the wing (same principle, the compressed air from under the wing streams over to the low pressure above the wing). Same could be with the Hobie 16 hull: The hull has to work as daggerboard, but the dimensions are reversed: how deep is the immersed part of the hull? 30 cm? and 4 meters long. I could imagine that because of this large length a delta-wing like vortex forms that creates the required lift, and the rudders lie right in the wake of this vortex. Consistent hydrodynamics in such a dynamic area (of a corkscrew-like movement o the water, and nothing else is a vortex) is surely touchy. And when you lay rudder, the changing angle of attack of the hull drastically changes the size and strength of the vortex, making it even harder. Amazing that this all was invented by more or less blind guess and works so well - when a master has the feel for the perfect adjjustment.
Still my question: Why don't you mirror Simon's Hobie 16 chat videos on your channel? Granted, they are a little dry, but he says a lot of interesting things that surely many would find interesting. Maybe spiced up with an intro from you and from time to time some dynamic Hobie 16 sailing clips.
@@JoyriderTV does it make the steering feel heavy or slow the boat down? I get a lot of weather helm on my H16 on the port tack and hardly any on starboard tack. Could that be rudder stall ? How do you get rid of it? Thanks Joe!!!
I used to work for Dean Froome in Kailua Hawaii at his Hobie dealership in the early ‘80s. Great times!
Might think about fitting a footstap for the rear foot. Really helps to keep your footing. And you can still get out if you pitchpole.
That must have been just after his starring role in Sharing the wind.
Amazing.
re:footstrap - i'll talk about why i don't in the Q+A
This summer i had a lot of fun sailing the hobie 16. The last days i switched to the topaz 16 which i liked very much as far as the handling felt.
Nice. I still haven't tried the Topaz.
Insane! Love it!
🤩
Wow great day of sailing, you really enjoyed
🤩
Great video as always. Do you have one where you go into the finer points of weight distribution for different points of sail? It was interesting to see you calling out when to move forward and back in this video. If not that may be an idea for a future episode of Joyrider TV. I'm still learning!
The bow of the 16 is sharp and digs deep into the water. this allows it to act as a dagger board, which helps the boat track laterally while sailing upwind if you move forward and sink the bow in. The more you need to pinch to hold your lane, the deeper you want to sink the bow. Downwind, you don't really need that additional lateral resistance; the rudders provide plenty on their own. Additionally, the boat has a greater tendency to nosedive downwind, so you need to go weight back and pop the bow out a bit to counter that. At higher downwind speeds, you are planing harder, so you don't care as much about sacrificing waterline because you definitely won't be displacing and a small planinng surface is adequate at those speeds.
Also, moving forward rakes the rig up, powering the boat up, which is desirable when you have a lower/closer angle of attack on the sails, and moving back rakes the rig back, depowering as you build apparent wind with your greater/broader angle of attack... Basically, high performance boats experience a higher apparent wind speed when they are going downhill, because the boatspeed vector adds to the true wind vector, so the need to depower becomes greater.
of course, in light winds, when the boat cannot plane downwind, you once again want to sink the bow knuckle deep in the water, to power up the rig and extend the waterline for optimal displacement
@@emmetsmith6402 thanks! Good explanation.
Here's upwind - th-cam.com/video/o0rCWYr3zAo/w-d-xo.html
and downwind - th-cam.com/video/EUrv7q57PC8/w-d-xo.html
wow! that a very fast mashine. i love hobie 16)))
Me too!
very good sound quality this time Just enough wind noise to "feel" the speed. Any reasons for that? (to know what to do right next time)
I've changed my approach - camera under the rash vest for the right balance of wind noise with appropriate clarity.
@@JoyriderTV Such a simple change...
KIS (keep it simple) is always the best.
It is always better when you changed something and get a result than when suddenly it got better and no one knows why, because then you also don't know what you did when it does NOT work anymore.
A high speeds in the 16 and 18, have you ever heard your rudders "sing?"
Yes they can. When not perfectly aligned (and the rudders never are) rapid vibrations occur and a high pitch noise results. When I hear them sing I know I'm going really fast. What about you and the other fine folks that visit this channel? kind regards,
it always happens to me, even at medium speed, its an agreable sound
Our 16s don't sing. The best songs came from the Tigers Daggerboards when they first came out. On the race course it was like an out of tune choir!
Love the new camera! No gloves for you? All the sailing you do you must have hands of steel!
Yeah, due to sailing a lot gloves are nor required.
When taking the "ultimate photograph" from the tiller cam (at the 1:45 mark), it appears that you may need a cod piece. Preferably one made out of plastic or metal (for protection).
the is a cod piece!
Can you make a video on the aero?
I'll see what i can do.
Great video again, where are you sailing from.
Wildwind, Vassiliki, Lefkas, Greece
Hi. Does in Vasiliki is possible to rent a catamaran?
not this year due to COVID regulations
At what angle vs the wind are you riding on this course more less?
Around the beam reach or slightly lower.
So the wind is hitting the boat side on.
You stole my crew ;-)
Ha! She's very good.
The 16s seem to be extremely touchy on the rudder. Does e.g. the Tiger have the same issue? Except the out-of-shape rudder on the problem boat I do not hear you discussing that on the biggies.
There is much less load on the bigger cat rudders due to more hull in the water.
@@JoyriderTV Good one...
And as usual a nerdy thought comparing boats with planes:
A daggerboard cat has a long narrow "wing" that creates the lift, and the "airflow" (waterflow) is pretty smooth behind such a wing, so a smooth wake towards the rudder.
There is a vortex forming from the air/water streaming from the high-pressure leeward side to the low-pressure windward side, but that is only at the tip, and I could imagine that this vortex is below the tip of the rudder.
Enter Hobie 16.
Its hull shape is more like a delta wing.
A delta wing is very long and the wingspan is narrow, and the wind creates lift mainly by a (comparably to a narrow-wing) large angle of attack, that causes a LARGE vortex to form along the leading edge of the wing (same principle, the compressed air from under the wing streams over to the low pressure above the wing).
Same could be with the Hobie 16 hull:
The hull has to work as daggerboard, but the dimensions are reversed: how deep is the immersed part of the hull? 30 cm? and 4 meters long.
I could imagine that because of this large length a delta-wing like vortex forms that creates the required lift, and the rudders lie right in the wake of this vortex.
Consistent hydrodynamics in such a dynamic area (of a corkscrew-like movement o the water, and nothing else is a vortex) is surely touchy.
And when you lay rudder, the changing angle of attack of the hull drastically changes the size and strength of the vortex, making it even harder.
Amazing that this all was invented by more or less blind guess and works so well - when a master has the feel for the perfect adjjustment.
Still my question: Why don't you mirror Simon's Hobie 16 chat videos on your channel? Granted, they are a little dry, but he says a lot of interesting things that surely many would find interesting. Maybe spiced up with an intro from you and from time to time some dynamic Hobie 16 sailing clips.
What is rudder stall?
when you get an air pocket at the rudder that feels like you're dragging a bucket.
It's caused by sideways movement of the rudder blade.
@@JoyriderTV does it make the steering feel heavy or slow the boat down? I get a lot of weather helm on my H16 on the port tack and hardly any on starboard tack. Could that be rudder stall ? How do you get rid of it? Thanks Joe!!!
I was wondering if you got a boat that doesn’t belong to joyrider club? What is you’re own personal boat that you sail on?
I own a Tornado. If I didn't have access to the fleet here I would also buy a Hobie 16.
Why do you sheet in in a gust? You are supposed to do the opposite...
Ha! Yes, generally the opposite is a better idea.
On these speed runs I'm trying to get as much power as possible.
Why do you use both rudders for speed runs?
That's a great question for this week's q+a
Сам в шлеме, а девушку не жалко))
She decided that she didn't want one - I always offer. Safety is the most important.