I loved your thoughts on this show! I was thinking to myself that it was an interesting juxtaposition (I think that's the word) that Martha was so outwardly and publically abusive whereas the producer was so behind closed doors, secretly abusive. Even the way he abused Donny was kept mostly as a secret from Donny himself because the producer would abuse him when Donny was under the influence of drugs leaving Donny with vague and fuzzy details about what happened vs with Martha where he had a play by play /oral history of all their conversations and her voicemails.
I feel that the very moment where Donny is realising that he can't report Martha when he's been keeping silent on Darrien is the strongest beat of the show. It's when everything clicks. I think Marshall says something about this in the video too- it's a great moment. But you're right to continue the comparison past that... the juxtaposition of the end should be raised too. How Martha gets sent away but Donny goes back to Darrien and, presumably, gets sucked into his charisma again. Martha is easier to bring to light. And it's a horrifically downbeat ending that reinforces how secret abuse is so tenacious and damaging. The real story behind who this was in Gadd's life and what happened to them both was something I googled for - I came up with nothing and I think it's still in the dark somewhat, still an ongoing secret?
@@Stress-Free-K I don't know and I tried to search for some explanation, some interview where Gadd explains it or says what happened in the long run... Is he still in touch with him? He's obviously still shielding his name. I guess Gadd feels complicit in what happened to him. Maybe he went back because of what he said earlier about continuing to work at the bar during the Martha stuff... because he didn't want to be seen to give up?
I would also add that it doesn't matter whether these actions are conscious or not. Accidentally, Terry was a psychotherapist and handled the situation. But after all, many people have no knowledge of human defense mechanisms or addictions. We don't have to be a specialist to put limits on others. From the point of view of boundaries, it doesn't matter if someone is aware of what they are doing or not. Because even if he isn't, should people allow someone to flood them with their emotions and problems and create functional chaos in their lives?
@@maxiamberville Teri knew what he was going through and what he needed to do for his safety, but ultimately just couldn’t be a part of it anymore. Unfortunate but a good takeaway to give the audience and Donny himself. Actions have consequences, even if your actions make perfect sense to you at the time.
I actually liked the last scene with the bartender offering him a drink on the house. To me, it felt like a moment when he Donny could maybe come to realise that he didn't invite Martha in or do a wrong thing in giving her that cup of tea - it is a basic case of human compassion, something anybody could have done for somebody else. Great analysis in any case! Thoroughly enjoyed this :)
@@Sassssky actually, yup. Once he followed HER home, he'd completely f*cked up imo. In fact, in the beginning of the series, I was thinking it could be a gendered thing a lot: women are taught, and/or learn the hard way, to be wary of men, and men who have stalky vibes are socially known to be potentially dangerous; I couldn't help but think "if the genders were reversed, there's no way a girl would do X".
In my interpretation of the series finale, Donny doesn't discover that he has become Martha, but rather he understands that Martha became a stalker due to possible childhood abuse. Her only mechanism of protection was her stuffed animals, and she saw the people she became obsessed with as those stuffed animals that protected her, not allowing anyone to take them away or to separate from her.
@@TylerMooreMusic I am sure there wont be a sequel. But the story is never over. One thing is that her obesity is never explored. She could have suffered from eating disorders, which made her so psychotically possessive. She could have therapy in prison and lose a lot of weight (the actor has), which will mean her possessive and ocd jealously will also go. There is still another story there.
@@Globaldave1970 again in my opinion only if there is a real story there with whoever the real stalker is... which given your pov i hope she does get that release but making a show if it happens seems kind of messed up and inappropriate... this story definately goes on and thats the point but we dont need to see the follow up in a second season
This show completely validated my experience with being assaulted. I couldn’t just leave the man who did that to me alone. I couldn’t believe I was a victim. Why did I keep talking to him? This was the first time I’ve seen the after math of assault mirror mine. I needed this show.
Reality doesn't follow the clean cut resolutions you see in media. They're satisfying to watch, sure. But in reality it's messy and shit and full of mistakes.
There is a movie called Trust where a high school girl was assaulted by a middle-aged man that tricked her, yet she was heartbroken when he ignored her after the assault. It was a very good yet very sad movie.
I feel the same way!! I was actually jealous when he moved on to someone else, I felt like I was constantly trying to get in his good graces, hoping he’d abuse me again so I could feel like I meant something to someone because I felt worthless without him (which is what he wanted). And it’s taken me YEARS to not feel guilty about that. I love seeing so many people see this side of SA survival, and it validates my imperfection choices and mindset as a result of my SA.
What makes this show special is that it breaks the "perfect victim" mold. There's a pressure on victims to be perfect people, to be kind gentle souls that the world wronged, to have fought back, to have reported their victims, and if they didn't it was for some nobler cause. Victims are scared. Victims self preserve before they think of others. Victims can have diminished senses of empathy. Victims often have bad judgement. People who are in dangerous, life ruining situations cannot be the best people, even if they are good people. That doesn't make them not victims. The only way to validate real victims is to depict us as people. People who have been abused often put themselves in similar but seemingly safer situations. It can be to feel in control or to understand it and make sense of it. I've done it too. I'm glad this show talked about the aspects of abuse that aren't talked about.
Yes! Love this interpretation. There really is such an emphasis on being the perfect victim. Like if you're not perfect then in some way shape or form you deserved it/asked for it/chose it. And it's such a malignant force that keeps people from talking about their experiences.
The police expect victims to be perfect...and many victims won't go near them due to that. Being revictimised by the establishment is common, to this very day.
As a therapist and a victim of SA, his behavior after abuse is textbook. Victims of SA have had their boundaries destroyed, and it can take years of work to re-establish them. The show demonstrates him going into Freeze mode, but also fawn mode. These two fight/flight responses are less known, because historically we've only studied men not women, and they're more common for women to go into (because normally they aren't in a position to physically fight the threat). As a society we don't yet acknowledge how much trauma rewires our brains, how entrenched traumatic responses go. We've seen grooming and SA on TV plenty, what I found most powerful on this show was him opening up to his parents, his Dad being able to be open with him and the intergenerational healing.
I read Lonely Boy by Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols and he was abused by his stepfather. He talks about attracting the attention of the local paedophile afterwards - the same as Gadd talks about being fly paper for weird people. He also talks about having gay encounters afterwards in his teens but knowing he was straight and also becoming a sex addict. All these phenomena are visited in Baby Reindeer.
I also liked how there wasn't really a happy ending where Donny just overcomes the trauma and everything is good but it's something he still needs to work on. Even though he had the support of his family and job opportunities at the end he still freezes in front of Darrien showing how damaging abuse can be
This show TRIGERRED me so bad. As a SA survivor, I saw a lot of behaviors that I still do today, and made me realize how I’m hurting myself more. Quarter life crisis 🥹
I thought it was really meaningful how they portrayed Donny's bad decsions after trauma (going back to an abuser, drowning himself in drugs and sex, sleeping with Martha, etc) because I feel like a lot of people don't understand how badly trauma can affect how you make decisions. I always see people say "Why didn't the victim just leave or call the police" as if its ever that simple - I'm happy they showed the details of how the trauma affected Donny. And I hope media like this makes others more empathetic about trauma.
When he froze while she groped him I immediately knew that feeling, and how he beat himself up for not doing anything afterwards. The same thing happened to me in jail, someone grabbed me and took something out of my hand and i just froze. It’s such a hard feeling to describe, it’s like all the blood in your brain just leaves and goes to your chest, everything is on high alert, your heart is pounding and for the life of you- you just cannot move, like you’re stuck and it’s painful. I loved this show for that, haven’t seen the freeze response portrayed so accurately
It’s way more intense than normal disassociating , spot on description Freeze is my go to survival response when it comes to humans, it’s trapping and terrifying and worst of all feels so shameful afterwards 😢 So thankful to the show for showing it so realistically, some people still only think of “fight or flight” without knowing freeze and fawn exist too
I didn’t mind the scene where Donny was offered tea, although I agree it was a little on the nose. I didn’t interpret it as him becoming Martha, I thought it was to show that actually that’s a normal act and not one that solicits obsession or should have had the results it did, so it sort of absolves him of blame a bit Edit - not that he needs absolving of blame, I mean in his own head
I like to think it’s a realization of.. in your lowest lows, when you’re so vulnerable, even a stranger, “seeing you” can be so profoundly comforting. I think he has a moment of understanding what she was feeling. Not justifying her actions, but understanding what drove her crazy? Idk just an interpretation
I saw it as him finally understanding Martha. There’s parts in the show where he’s cataloguing all of her messages and even printing it out on the walls of his room and it takes up all the wall. That scene where he’s offered the tea on the house while he’s listening to her describe how she reminded him of the only thing that kept her safe in her childhood, it made it seem like he finally got the answer he was looking for, like he finally understood Martha’s reasoning.
@@BJkoolness i thought same. He talked about how Martha made him feel with all her compliments. Now he's in Martha's view of that first encounter. She was down and a stranger showed her kindness and made her feel better and that's most powerful when you really need to be lifted up
What really, really hurt was during the last episode when Donny went back to his abuser and agreeing to getting back into his world.. that didn't go in the direction I was hoping for and it very much broke my heart to see Donny not being able to escape the cycle of abuse
I feel like the ending was more of a way to show that him offering her a cup of tea which led to her stalking him wasn’t actually his fault. because someone else did the same thing for him, so he is not to blame for Martha stalking him, because what he did was normal and in a way, I feel like it’s such a beautiful wrapup for his story because throughout his monologue, he kept wondering if it was his fault that she started stalking him and then in the end the show is literally showing us that it wasn’t his fault.
Hahaha yeah while I felt bad for Donny, I was so with her when she broke up with him. It was the right call for her own mental health, and she wasn't in a position where she could really help him anyway. In the interview about the real story, Richard was also like yeah the real "Teri" was the voice of reason in my life, would always call me on my bullsh*t, should've listened to her better.
@@KarlSnarks yea I couldn’t stand seeing her get hurt anymore from Martha or Donny. I feel for him but he just was in no position for a relationship at that point.
I thought the ending was perfect. At that moment, he realized why Martha called him Baby Reindeer. And with all the episodes he's been through, he was there sitting and crying with no money to pay for the beer. Then this bartender offered him kindness, he understood what Martha had been through off-screen (we only saw a glimpse of it in his Google search). In short, I didn't think the last scene was to suggest Donny was to become Martha. He was only to understand that this has been all normal for any unlucky human being to become. The highest form of empathy really. This is probably how he could relive it all on-screen again.
As a survivor, a lot of times ive wished I could let people see my past to show what I cant bring to words. This show was exactly that. The way he spoke the trauma out loud is so powerful and made me want to learn to do the same.
I worked as a manager and forensic examiner of a sexual assault and rape centre. The road he went on with Martha is so real. The whole trying to understand his sexuality and the abuse he suffered is so real. I have dealt with so many people who suffered trauma from stalking and sexual assault/rape. She is a victim of her abuse and her disassociation is so well done. Both the actors who played Donny and Martha are absolutely brilliant. It's a dark and difficult series to watch but is also so real. It's even better acted than " it's a sin". Deals with grooming very well and is a master piece of television. If you found it uncomfortable.......know it is actually real for some.
The fact that episode 4 is where it is is nothing short of brilliant from a storytelling perspective. After 3 episodes of feeling frustrated, angry and scared of Martha, we get an episode where perhaps a larger evil takes over and I ended up missing Martha and that, regardless of her flaws, her actions are from a relatively good place and she never meant to hurt Donny intentionally, whereas Darrien's intentions were insidious from the get go. It was actually a relief seeing Martha back following this episode.
I understand your point of view, but I do not agree: Martha is a ticking time bomb and potentially dangerous. The fact that she starts having fantasies of zipping his chest open so she can live inside of him, after a random act of kindness, is a huge red flag to me. Not to mention the high level of manipulation she displays telling him this as a matter of making a joke. After all he’s a comedian…🥶
The main character reminded me of a lovely man I met many years ago. I really liked this guy but he had a deep deep sadness that was caused by abuse from his own father and others. I had a choice to be there for him and try to love him and support him, or walk away for my own sanity. It was like looking into a deep dark hole of depression (which I hadn't experienced) and choosing the light instead. I walked away from this tortured sweet man for my own well being. I often think of him and question if that was the right thing to do. This series was brutal but so so needed in this wounded and traumatised world. 10 out of 10.
Donny has deep-rooted shame from multiple traumas (intergenerational, sexual etc.), which is a self destructive emotional driver that coloured his responses to his abusers & his dysfunctional behaviour within his relationships. It draws attention to the importance of getting help…and how complex these matters are.
Absolutely, I agree! I would say even draws attention to the importance of those we see as Marthas, or even Darriens, of the world getting the right help and accountability for actions, too. There aren’t perfect victims or perfect human monsters. Because as humans, we are capable of this wide spectrum of experiences and choices. When we have quality support and resources, we start to know oneself, learn skills and coping tactics, and understand others deeply. We are less likely to hurt others around us with our unresolved trauma, like Teri was hurt. I feel it even touches on how many of our current typical systems for reporting and seeking help fail us. They fail both victims and the perpetrators. It touches on how abuse that abusers experience can be an explanation for their baggage and motivations, but not an excuse for all their choices made. I didn’t think the ending was on the nose. I thought it raised more of the right questions about victimhood, abuse, empathy, and all their sticky threads. The series does this while it maintains that every case is unique. There is a sense of thoughtful perspective and comic relief that is hard to find around these topics.
Your recommendation for it ending with Donny counter stalking Martha in prison would not send the same message - Donny isn’t obsessed with Martha as a person, he is obsessed with the validation she gives him. How she makes him feel about himself. That’s why he arranged all her voicemails according to various categories, so that when he is seeking to relive a specific emotion or need another hit of validation he can choose the one that’s gonna give him the appropriate dopamine hit he needs in the moment. He’s just obsessed with the idea of being fawned over. And interestingly, people who have survived a lot of trauma have higher levels of cortisol. He seeks out the dopamine hit in order to offset his cortisol levels temporarily. Which makes it even more prevalent that at this stage of his life/ recovery he is not capable of a genuine connection or healthy love
I think Donny's role can't be understated. The level of self pity you could see in his expression when performing. You can't pretend things like that. It wasn't acting. He was living his trauma's. And that's really the thing that hooked me at first. I believed his look before i even knew anything about the production. It's a wonderful thing when you just happen to stumble onto a masterpiece like this as it's rooting itself into the culture's awareness. That's what makes this completely unique. Just how much of it is real being transfered onto a story.
Everyone praises Teri, but I realy didn't like her. She claimed she was a therapist, but she never once felt or acted like one. She was almost cruel at moments with her sassiness and lack of empathy. If they told us she had literally any job, I wouldn't care - but it takes more than just saying "I can help, I'm a therapist" if you never actually act like one. A lot of professions really do encompass your personality, I'm a kindergarten teaching and I feel my personality reflects that. Idk I just never vibed with her. She went to his comedy show with her friends just to mock him, doesn't seem like an empathetic therapist
I think it was in large part an acknowledgement of how Donny treated her as a trans woman. It's difficult to understand if you're not seen as a "socially invalidating" partner for someone to have, but while her reaction was imperfect, it was justified. As Teri stated in their last few arguments, it's taken a long time for her to be able to walk outside the door as herself, and to have a partner who validates her in private but couldn't bear how it would reflect on HIM to be dating her is confusing and hurtful and an old, tired, worn out story for a lot of women for various reasons, race, weight, gender, etc. She didn't have the full story and acted to restore her own pride. Which I think is very human, and while I don't know if her actions were fitting for a therapist, even talking to him at all after the initial lying and hiding was not necessary for her. She didn't have to stay at any of these points. I really loved Teri as a character, and she felt so real to me because she wasn't just a pseudo-Mother Theresa with an endless wellspring of love and patience. Even therapists are human and a key part of being a therapist is teaching people how to set boundaries when someone in their life is hurting them. This is a really long and somewhat unnecessary ramble but that's what I understood of her, and I really did like the depth of her character and how you could feel she's probably been in similar situations so many times and chose to do better for herself.
My take on his failure to work for Teri…this won’t be popular…the abuse Donny suffered sexually at the hands of a male was driving his inconsistent attraction to Teri. Donny was actually validating Teri’s masculinity.
This show was great. All the actors were so great. The fact that he was brave enough to share his story and to be so truthful, good or bad, with the decisions he made throughout his life is so powerful. I really felt like I was on a journey with him. It had everything, tragedy, love, confusion, joy, pain and comedy. It was really well done and I'm happy I stumbled upon it..... sent from my Iphhon 🤣🤣
i haven't experienced sa, but a lot of people i love have. this show opened my eyes and made me understand the trauma responses of sa victims. i begrudgingly used to think angrily of them for not leaving sooner, for not speaking up sooner but i realise now how difficult that truly is. i appreciate this show for touching on taboo subjects in a controversial yet real and honest way. i think richard gadd deserves all the awards in the world
I dont think it was a 'ohh ive become martha'. I saw it as the end if his compulsion and obsession to truly know martha and how her own compulsions and obsessions caused her to fixated and stalk someone who showed her kindness at her lowest. He had spent weeks studying her, listening to her voicmails and covering his bedroom with notes on her to try and understand. That last scene was him graduating from the crash course of martha. Loved this series and great review by the way. Ill look out for a follow-up video from you. On another note I would have loved to see this as a stage play, any idea if there is a video on it as a play? Also has anyone seen the viral video of his breakdown?
Great point! In regards to your bottom paragraph, I’d love to see stage play but can’t find anywhere I did read in an article, should’ve mentioned in video that the viral video moment didn’t happen in real life, instead of the viral video moment, the stage play of this show was what got him famous! Hope that helps!
@@marshallstannus @nordette I don't understand why I can't find a recording of the play (Monkey see Monkey Do). I would have thought that Gadd would have it available for download somewhere to cash in on the Netflix release or that Netflix would have bought it too! Anyone ever find a link to it, please post...
@@marshallstannusI think if anything the final scene was adapted from real life Richards own mind at the time of the incidents. Because videos of his old stuff have circulated with similar set designs etc so Richard is putting himself in that situation again through donny. It can also be seen as a substitute for the "one man one show" concept it originates from
The show does a brilliant job at showing how abuse thrives in the gray area of politeness and care. abusers will chip away at your boundaries by playing on your empathy and your dreams. How they groom you, how you play into it because it’s flattering, how when they cross the line you’re already overwhelmed and they know exactly how to manipulate you. Healing from trauma means there are two realities, yours and the abuser. You can twist the facts, you can over every detail but the fact that remains is the abuser hurt you. The abuser may never agree, never apologize, the world may never protect their next victim. When things are gray, when you aren’t the perfect victim. Are you allowed to hurt, allowed to tell your story, and own your truth. The only way forward is to accept that their are multiple truths, AND you were hurt. And it was wrong.
I agree that the parallel in the end to the roles being reversed was too obvious, but-- and let me know if I'm the only one here -- interpreted the look he gave the bartender to almost be a look of him realizing that he did nothing wrong by being kind to her, and him offering her a cup of tea didn't invite her to uproot his entire life. I thought his look back at the bartender was a look of realization, "I'm not as much like Martha as I thought I was." I also love how everyone feels differently about the ending to this show!
Finally, I found a channel that did a reasonable breakdown of this show, thank you. It is one of the few shows that portray deep-embedded emotions creeping within humans that blur the line between the good and the bad and what loneliness and trauma do to a human in seek of validation and assurance. In the end, the strong family bond brought a ray of hope with him clearing his chest out by letting the tears flow in front of his parents. But the emptiness might linger inside, always, one just has to cover it with other choices.
This was one of the shows that stick with you for weeks. My heart aches for what Donny went through. And how Richard was able to act out his lived experiences, just made it all too insanely real to me. When I watched the series there were no videos on it yet and I’m so glad to be able to dissect this others… because man.. I don’t think I can rewatch it ever again
The ending is as deep as the viewer is inclined to see. As it's the inversion of the start of the story. At the end. What goes around comes around. It's brilliant. Carl Jung, one of my favourite quotes of his "judgement is the inversion of morality". I would also add that the scene was saturated in humility as it recognises his act of kindness in the beginning, shouldn't be dismissed because of his experiences. As everyone suffers. It is such a mature and compassionate work of art. We need more of this, speaking to the higher aspects of the human spirit as it tackles some of the darkest aspects. How goodness and the wisdom of goodness shines through the darkness. It is so good. I thoroughly enjoyed this series. It really is a work of art.
I really hope you have a part 2. This was one of those blue moon shows you find. I just put on episode 1 to have something on, and at the end of each episode I was holding my face going “ooooohhhh lord” and hitting play next. It goes into territory that has almost never been explored in popular media and I would say it’s pretty groundbreaking in that respect. It had me evaluating some of my own choices and my own history of trauma in a way that felt non judgmental and constructive, and the show was just so entertaining. Great video mate
Thanks so much for this lovely comment! I think I’m going to have to do a part two and really get into the nitty gritty, as long as you’re happy with less footage used for copyright! Thanks for the great comment mate
OMG I screamed that someone watched this too. Wow, I don’t think I have seen a more uncomfortable show. But not a bad uncomfortable a necessary uncomfortable. Great conversations to have after.
Really amazing show. Don't know if you get Law & Order SVU, but over and over again. They explain that victims sexual violence are not always perfect. They do things that look counter-intuitive. But that's part of the abuse. That Donny is so sympathetic to Martha is maddening. Still it's very helpful to see that messiness and appreciate it's his way of coping in crazy situation.
I don’t think he deliberately continued to lead her on. Initially he acted out of sympathy and/or pity for her. When he tried to let her down and end it her mental state immediately switched and his response was to do what ever he had to and he tried not to hurt her. He was caught in a trap. At the end where he was listening to her messages again.. he did in a way miss her, he said that. This took place over 6 years. And finally we know he’s ok now because he is a real person who is now thriving because of his brutally honest telling of this time in his life.
I found this series really impactful. I relate a lot to his realisation that his empathy is a result of his own self hatred..... I have collected wounded souls all my life and of course I have abuse in my background... I am so glad this series is out there
I watched this series last night. I loved it. One of the things I took away from it, was everyone around him seemed to have some kind of trauma or needed some kind of therapy. Excellent writing.
I had a "Martha" in my life but on a less dangerous level. She would comment on nearly all of my posts, copied all of my interests, and even wanted to buy matching outfits. She was seriously overwhelming and creepy, and people in my life warned me about her, but I was at such a low point due to trauma that I let her take over my life. I hated myself for giving away so much of my time to her, but I felt such overwhelming pity and also indulged in the attention I lacked growing up. She always said what a kind person I was, so if I ignored her, I felt like that wouldn't be true. She would act like I was selfish for not answering the phone immediately, even on special occasions which she always seemed to sabotage. She had taken my most valued trait, my empathy, and used it against me. She also pushed me to reveal and repeat my deepest traumas, bringing me to a low place week after week to keep my self esteem low enough to respond to her validation. After I finally confronted her about her behavior, she blocked me, only to pop up again wanting to reconnect. I wished her well but didn't engage. But I did spend months watching TH-cam videos about stalkers and codependents, trying to understand exactly what I had been through. It all felt like a terrible addiction which didn't serve either of us, and I can genuinely say that I am much better off on the other side of it. However, I am more closed off from people, worried that being too kind might invite the next "Martha" in.
this show is a masterclass of subtext. So much is said without actually being said. Though this show and the characters are brutally honest about their emotions and trauma. I think my favourite scenes are those where the facial expressions of the characters give a whole monologue of what the character is feeling without uttering a single word and sometimes they only last a minute or a few seconds.
This is an extremely depressing biopic. At the same time, perhaps this is an important series to watch for anyone who has been abused in this way. For those who suffer with self-esteem, for victims living this life with self-loathing. It is not an enjoyable watch, but it's useful to gain understanding in abuse, mental illness, and the repercussions it has. I wish Richard Gadd well, and continued healing. Hopefully he is being very good to himself. As for the stalker, also a victim of abuse, I hope she is getting serious professional mental health help, and on her way to healing as well. This world we live in is frightening. The natural beauty of life is under grave threat.
Great job breaking this show down! It was fantastic and so provocative. It's one of those shows that you instantly want to get other people's take on. I hope it ends up reaching a wide audience. I'm now subscribed!
Even though we can judge Donny's actions of being terrible, we all know for a fact that we have done terrible things that no one is willing to admit to. Whether it was due to someone or something from the past, instincts, or simply something out of character, everyone had to apologize for bringing sadness or shame. This show was so enjoyable to me because no character was perfect, no glossy abs and shiny hair and bright characters like in every young adult fiction show on Netflix. Similarly to Marath's writing, this show was raw, unfiltered, and unmistakably real.
Your video is exactly the discussion I wanted to have after watching the series. You touched on everything I wanted to talk to friends about. Thank you so much for this excellent overview!
He loved hating himself more than loving Terri...that resonated with me. It was about self loathing as much as it was about Martha, sexual confusion and stalking.
Was looking for a bit of a breakdown of the show since I don't really like watching TV and came across this video. Really liked your analysis of it and gave me a general sense of the themes of the show, thanks!
The quietness and awkwardness in the show makes you feel like you’re there living it. In certain uncomfortable scenes it’s dead silent in the background makes you feel the awkwardness and emotional pain.
I enjoyed!!! I didn’t expect to like this show as much as I did. Having been the victim of the solved myself it helped me make sense of a lot of things. I enjoyed your thoughts on it and your breakdown. You’ve definitely gotten a subscriber here.
As an ED Fringe Festival Fan I so regret that I haven't seen this One Man show live. Im sure this would have been a stunning performance! What an amazing show this was! blown away and flabbergasted how good this was. Took me by surprise. First I was annoyed by the weakness of the Main character and how he could let that all happen, but it all makes completely sense when you hear his story in episode 4 and 6 when he has his monologue on stage. Powerfull, shocking, funny, weird, sad, moving all at the same time. Life is stranger than fiction! You really can say here, when life gives you lemons make lemonade out of it. He truly turned his misery and trauma into something amazing with this story, with he now gets global success and admiration. Best Mini-Series in years. Im sure this will become the next Fleabag! I think the ending was clever too puting him in the same spot as martha was in the beginning. Makes it even more understandable how quick u can end up on the side of the pitied one and why he felt for her in the first place.
It's an incredible series. Wow. It was so hard to watch some of it, Richard was incredible in it. I'm blown away that the guy who experienced this is the main character xx
Really love how the show really makes you think, def a huge mind F**k & really makes you think. Glad that he was comfortable enough this day & age to share his experience.
I have heard things about this series but had yet to really consider watching it until I watched most of your video (I paused 12 min in) gonna go binge Baby Reindeer be back!! ✌🏾
love your review! i agree w you strongly, with the critism at the ending too. i've been searching video talking about this show since i watched it but suprised tehre arent many
really appreciate your take on this! i’ve just finished watching the show today and honestly am still parsing through my thoughts, it was so heavy at moments and I can tell it’ll stick with me for a while. would love to hear your opinion further in a part 2!
I went to watch this show after just hearing your intro,it was so good! I only got four episodes in, I couldn't finish ep4- it really got to me, but it's insane to know he was storytelling his own abuse and as$ault... truly passionate and powerful show. I hope someday I'll be able to finish it lol
In my opinion the final scene wasnt supposed to be the show saying him and Martha are the same, but actually showing how theyre different. I feel like that scene shows Donny "I didnt invite this, no matter what I mightve done to lead her on I didnt deserve all the bad things shes done to me."
You did a brilliant job of articulating what I imagine is on the tip of everyone’s tongue since watching this show. I thought everything you said was spot on. So many relatable, human moments to this show.
@@marshallstannus since watching the show it’s been stuck in my head like a favorite song and I’ve been struggling to put into words how and why it was so impactful for me AND YOUR VIDEO JUST GAVE ME ANSWERS!!! Thank you for your thoughtful critical analysis. Really appreciated buddy 🙂
Episode 4 was extremely relatable. Why did I continue to let him in my house? Continue to play games with him? Continue to eat lunch with him at school? Do I only have interest in the people I do because of him? It felt like he asked me what I’ve been through and wrote an episode that parallels it.
What an important series and review about trauma. Esp the freeze and fawn aspects of trauma. Everyone talks about fight or flight. Our society expects that trauma response. Freeze and fawn lead to more complicated and complex places and discussions. Thank you.
Great insights, Marshall. Really appreciate to see you go in-depth with their characterizations and motives in the series. Donny Dunn and Martha Scott are multi-dimensional characters. Or multi-faceted characters. Can’t tell which is which, but whatever. Anyway, it’s incredible how they (I mean, Donny) isn’t playing around with the victim mentality mindset. He knows deep down he has flaws. Like for instance, he keeps rewinding Martha’s voicemails and he returned to his abuser’s place, which is telling us all that Donny isn’t as squeaky clean of a human being others would likely want him to be. Victims are supposed to be portrayed as innocent, but that isn’t really the point of the show. Like cake, eeveyone’s got layers to them. You’ve got to unveil them one by one. Per episode, you feel as if you’re in their shoes somehow and feel the conflicting emotions, thoughts, and feelings that come with being a flawed but still fairly intellectual person.
I can relate a lot to wondering if your orientation is due to abuse.. and not understanding why you repeatedly go back to an abuser and become attached to someone that uses and hurts you. I've never seen anything that felt so real and relatable. It was incredible to see this story on screen. Heart torn and mind blown. P.s. I am female also! I'm glad you mentioned it's a human experience
I think this show is a great insight into how abuse changes people in ways that aren’t always favorable to others narratives. So many people live in shame and it’s something that’s encouraged to experience alone and is unique to that one person. Trauma thrives even with therapy, community, and familial support. I’m glad that you highlighted the fact that this story shouldn’t be solely about a man’s perspective.
I think the lyrics to the song ( I started to cry which started the whole world laughing) addresses his being aware of becoming famous because of his trauma 😢
Thanks, watching the intro got me bing-ing Baby Reindeer. I cringe so much in the first episode, but also feel bad for both sides, way deep down. His kindness, at one point, really starts to feel cruel because he knows what it propels. You can blame the circumstances all you want, but if your inaction hurts you and people around you, then part of it is your fault too. I am not undermining any of his abuse, but throughout the story you really feel that self loathe has turn him into a drama junkie. It feel bad for him, but it's also frustrating how he let down so many people in the process. ps. Donny gaining fame from his honest, traumatic breakdown just reminded me of Black Mirror and it's just depressing.
Marshall your points are on point. This series was poignant incredible truly visceral. I was about to dump Netflix but this single handly changed my mind. This was brave this was the best of British. Over to you America beat that
I think your thoughts are very valid and I have to say, watching ep. 4 made me think the very questions Donny asked himself... Because I am to blame what happened back then, and it was my fault to the certain extent. And why did I go back. I hope one day both Donny and I can forgive ourselves. Baby Rendeer is really really good tv with great actors. I hope this will start different kinds of conversation we aren't really having. About stalking, I find it cruel that people really stalked the actor's friends and "found the real Martha", like... that wasn't the point.
Yeah this show was so good!!!! I couldn’t turn it off & had to watch all at once & for some1 that watches everything on Netflix & prime that’s saying a lot. I couldn’t believe it was really about him IRL!!!! So good!!! Thanks again & gods bless every1
18:34 I really liked your point that while it is good to focus on men for once, we don’t want to forget that women experience this too. I read a comment by a female trauma survivor on another video and she said that Donny exhibits freeze and fawning which are two trauma responses that are much less studied that fight and flight precisely because the former are more common among women and the latter are more common among men
It is sad that I don't know anyone in real life who is willing to watch this and I need to find random people on TH-cam to talk to... but hey, it's great you are there! I'm rewatching now... I am guessing that people purposefully avoid talking about what this show is about to sucker people into watching it? It starts off as a comedic psychological thriller and that is mainly how it's being pitched in trailers and reviews. But this is a framework that is generally accessible that makes the true story about abuse a kind of Trojan Horse within it. When I talk about this to people, I go straight to episode 4 as I don't want to lie to people about how serious this show is. And surprise surprise, no one wants to watch it after I say this...
Yeah really interesting I think for me I definitely thought the first 4 episodes were fantastic, peaking with episode 4/5 The last two slightly let me down. I agree with you it’s a Trojan horse however I think the surprise pay off of episode 4 is incredibly satisfying, and it’s almost worth watching the initial episodes again with the knowledge of what happened to him prior. It’s hard because I do think I could recommend the first 3 episodes to most people and they’d enjoy, but the last 4 I can’t🤷🏻♀️ I’ve recommended it to people plenty but only people I know can already handle the worst of what this show features, rather than just based on the initial tone of the first few! Thanks for watching!
The levels to this. And the fact that Richard gifted us with all good, bad and the ugly. He gave us all the shame. It’s why it’s so good/ because it’s so dark. He was so vulnerable and brave/ and to be able to write it into a script, act it- holy shit!!
Please do a follow up. The last scene was indeed imperfect. I was longing and waiting through the whole last episode to see how it ended. Perhaps this was how it really ended for Richard. I’m still processing.
I think at the end when he’s given the free drink it’s not to show how they’re similar but how they’re different. How I interpreted it is that when he gets this free drink from the bartender he realises that it’s truly just an innocent and kind act, and that when he did it for Martha, the stalking and everything that came after it was not his fault essentially, and that him giving her the cup of tea and showing kindness should not be at all blamed for how she acted
I loved your thoughts on this show! I was thinking to myself that it was an interesting juxtaposition (I think that's the word) that Martha was so outwardly and publically abusive whereas the producer was so behind closed doors, secretly abusive. Even the way he abused Donny was kept mostly as a secret from Donny himself because the producer would abuse him when Donny was under the influence of drugs leaving Donny with vague and fuzzy details about what happened vs with Martha where he had a play by play /oral history of all their conversations and her voicemails.
What a wonderful insight
Couldn’t agree more! I’ve pinned the comment
@@marshallstannusthank you 😊
I feel that the very moment where Donny is realising that he can't report Martha when he's been keeping silent on Darrien is the strongest beat of the show. It's when everything clicks. I think Marshall says something about this in the video too- it's a great moment. But you're right to continue the comparison past that... the juxtaposition of the end should be raised too. How Martha gets sent away but Donny goes back to Darrien and, presumably, gets sucked into his charisma again. Martha is easier to bring to light. And it's a horrifically downbeat ending that reinforces how secret abuse is so tenacious and damaging.
The real story behind who this was in Gadd's life and what happened to them both was something I googled for - I came up with nothing and I think it's still in the dark somewhat, still an ongoing secret?
So why do you think baby reindeer went back to work for the producer? Can it still be called abuse if the drugs return?
@@Stress-Free-K I don't know and I tried to search for some explanation, some interview where Gadd explains it or says what happened in the long run... Is he still in touch with him? He's obviously still shielding his name. I guess Gadd feels complicit in what happened to him. Maybe he went back because of what he said earlier about continuing to work at the bar during the Martha stuff... because he didn't want to be seen to give up?
I loved that Donny didn’t win Teri back. Losing someone as a consequence to your actions is a necessary lesson in life.
I would also add that it doesn't matter whether these actions are conscious or not. Accidentally, Terry was a psychotherapist and handled the situation. But after all, many people have no knowledge of human defense mechanisms or addictions. We don't have to be a specialist to put limits on others. From the point of view of boundaries, it doesn't matter if someone is aware of what they are doing or not. Because even if he isn't, should people allow someone to flood them with their emotions and problems and create functional chaos in their lives?
It is NOT a necessary life lesson 😢💔
Nah, it is.
@@maxiamberville Teri knew what he was going through and what he needed to do for his safety, but ultimately just couldn’t be a part of it anymore. Unfortunate but a good takeaway to give the audience and Donny himself. Actions have consequences, even if your actions make perfect sense to you at the time.
@@DastardlyDavid69every thing that happens in our lives are life lessons, Otherwise how do we learn. 🤷♀️
@@annafattore1273 If mistakes are life lessons then I am the smartest man in the world :(
I actually liked the last scene with the bartender offering him a drink on the house. To me, it felt like a moment when he Donny could maybe come to realise that he didn't invite Martha in or do a wrong thing in giving her that cup of tea - it is a basic case of human compassion, something anybody could have done for somebody else.
Great analysis in any case! Thoroughly enjoyed this :)
Yeah it was all the other stuff he did do that was his problem....
@@Sassssky actually, yup. Once he followed HER home, he'd completely f*cked up imo. In fact, in the beginning of the series, I was thinking it could be a gendered thing a lot: women are taught, and/or learn the hard way, to be wary of men, and men who have stalky vibes are socially known to be potentially dangerous; I couldn't help but think "if the genders were reversed, there's no way a girl would do X".
Totally agree!
Was a good way to bring the show back around to mirror the start and end the show
One free drink maybe. But. A free drink. Every. Single. Day. Anyone would assume someone liked them at that point.
In my interpretation of the series finale, Donny doesn't discover that he has become Martha, but rather he understands that Martha became a stalker due to possible childhood abuse. Her only mechanism of protection was her stuffed animals, and she saw the people she became obsessed with as those stuffed animals that protected her, not allowing anyone to take them away or to separate from her.
Excellent. You have nailed it there. Could be room for a sequel when she comes out of prison.
@@Globaldave1970 please no lol no offence i just hope they leave the show as is, based on the true story and with that perfect ending
@@TylerMooreMusic I am sure there wont be a sequel. But the story is never over. One thing is that her obesity is never explored. She could have suffered from eating disorders, which made her so psychotically possessive. She could have therapy in prison and lose a lot of weight (the actor has), which will mean her possessive and ocd jealously will also go. There is still another story there.
@@Globaldave1970 again in my opinion only if there is a real story there with whoever the real stalker is... which given your pov i hope she does get that release but making a show if it happens seems kind of messed up and inappropriate... this story definately goes on and thats the point but we dont need to see the follow up in a second season
@@Globaldave1970 what's with the modern obsession with sequels? The story is perfect as it is.
This show completely validated my experience with being assaulted. I couldn’t just leave the man who did that to me alone. I couldn’t believe I was a victim. Why did I keep talking to him? This was the first time I’ve seen the after math of assault mirror mine. I needed this show.
Reality doesn't follow the clean cut resolutions you see in media. They're satisfying to watch, sure. But in reality it's messy and shit and full of mistakes.
Take love sweetheart and I hope you don't keep blaming yourself. There are so many shit people in this world. Heal soon 💞
There is a movie called Trust where a high school girl was assaulted by a middle-aged man that tricked her, yet she was heartbroken when he ignored her after the assault. It was a very good yet very sad movie.
Need to see more of this, to shut up claims that it didn't happen if you still engage with that person in any way.
I feel the same way!! I was actually jealous when he moved on to someone else, I felt like I was constantly trying to get in his good graces, hoping he’d abuse me again so I could feel like I meant something to someone because I felt worthless without him (which is what he wanted). And it’s taken me YEARS to not feel guilty about that. I love seeing so many people see this side of SA survival, and it validates my imperfection choices and mindset as a result of my SA.
What makes this show special is that it breaks the "perfect victim" mold. There's a pressure on victims to be perfect people, to be kind gentle souls that the world wronged, to have fought back, to have reported their victims, and if they didn't it was for some nobler cause.
Victims are scared. Victims self preserve before they think of others. Victims can have diminished senses of empathy. Victims often have bad judgement. People who are in dangerous, life ruining situations cannot be the best people, even if they are good people. That doesn't make them not victims. The only way to validate real victims is to depict us as people.
People who have been abused often put themselves in similar but seemingly safer situations. It can be to feel in control or to understand it and make sense of it. I've done it too. I'm glad this show talked about the aspects of abuse that aren't talked about.
Yes! Love this interpretation. There really is such an emphasis on being the perfect victim. Like if you're not perfect then in some way shape or form you deserved it/asked for it/chose it. And it's such a malignant force that keeps people from talking about their experiences.
The police expect victims to be perfect...and many victims won't go near them due to that. Being revictimised by the establishment is common, to this very day.
As a therapist and a victim of SA, his behavior after abuse is textbook. Victims of SA have had their boundaries destroyed, and it can take years of work to re-establish them. The show demonstrates him going into Freeze mode, but also fawn mode. These two fight/flight responses are less known, because historically we've only studied men not women, and they're more common for women to go into (because normally they aren't in a position to physically fight the threat). As a society we don't yet acknowledge how much trauma rewires our brains, how entrenched traumatic responses go.
We've seen grooming and SA on TV plenty, what I found most powerful on this show was him opening up to his parents, his Dad being able to be open with him and the intergenerational healing.
I read Lonely Boy by Steve Jones of the Sex Pistols and he was abused by his stepfather. He talks about attracting the attention of the local paedophile afterwards - the same as Gadd talks about being fly paper for weird people. He also talks about having gay encounters afterwards in his teens but knowing he was straight and also becoming a sex addict. All these phenomena are visited in Baby Reindeer.
I also liked how there wasn't really a happy ending where Donny just overcomes the trauma and everything is good but it's something he still needs to work on. Even though he had the support of his family and job opportunities at the end he still freezes in front of Darrien showing how damaging abuse can be
This show TRIGERRED me so bad. As a SA survivor, I saw a lot of behaviors that I still do today, and made me realize how I’m hurting myself more. Quarter life crisis 🥹
I thought it was really meaningful how they portrayed Donny's bad decsions after trauma (going back to an abuser, drowning himself in drugs and sex, sleeping with Martha, etc) because I feel like a lot of people don't understand how badly trauma can affect how you make decisions.
I always see people say "Why didn't the victim just leave or call the police" as if its ever that simple - I'm happy they showed the details of how the trauma affected Donny. And I hope media like this makes others more empathetic about trauma.
Can someone explain to me why did he decide to go back to Darrien? I really couldn't wrap my head around that.
When he froze while she groped him I immediately knew that feeling, and how he beat himself up for not doing anything afterwards. The same thing happened to me in jail, someone grabbed me and took something out of my hand and i just froze. It’s such a hard feeling to describe, it’s like all the blood in your brain just leaves and goes to your chest, everything is on high alert, your heart is pounding and for the life of you- you just cannot move, like you’re stuck and it’s painful. I loved this show for that, haven’t seen the freeze response portrayed so accurately
Thank you for your comment! Yeah this is really tough and totally get what you’re saying!
God Bless 🙏🏾🩷, im so sorry. may God protect over you & your family Amen 🙏🏾🩷
"all the blood in your brain just leaves and goes to your chest" omg you put that perfectly. EXACTLY
It’s because, in that moment, your brain and body have decided that that is your best bet to survive what is happening. 😢
It’s way more intense than normal disassociating , spot on description
Freeze is my go to survival response when it comes to humans, it’s trapping and terrifying and worst of all feels so shameful afterwards 😢
So thankful to the show for showing it so realistically, some people still only think of “fight or flight” without knowing freeze and fawn exist too
I didn’t mind the scene where Donny was offered tea, although I agree it was a little on the nose. I didn’t interpret it as him becoming Martha, I thought it was to show that actually that’s a normal act and not one that solicits obsession or should have had the results it did, so it sort of absolves him of blame a bit
Edit - not that he needs absolving of blame, I mean in his own head
I like this perspective. Thanks for sharing.
i thought it was perfect. The level of complexity and detail in that reflection only goes as deep as the viewer is inclined to see.
I like to think it’s a realization of.. in your lowest lows, when you’re so vulnerable, even a stranger, “seeing you” can be so profoundly comforting. I think he has a moment of understanding what she was feeling. Not justifying her actions, but understanding what drove her crazy? Idk just an interpretation
I saw it as him finally understanding Martha. There’s parts in the show where he’s cataloguing all of her messages and even printing it out on the walls of his room and it takes up all the wall. That scene where he’s offered the tea on the house while he’s listening to her describe how she reminded him of the only thing that kept her safe in her childhood, it made it seem like he finally got the answer he was looking for, like he finally understood Martha’s reasoning.
@@BJkoolness i thought same. He talked about how Martha made him feel with all her compliments. Now he's in Martha's view of that first encounter. She was down and a stranger showed her kindness and made her feel better and that's most powerful when you really need to be lifted up
What really, really hurt was during the last episode when Donny went back to his abuser and agreeing to getting back into his world.. that didn't go in the direction I was hoping for and it very much broke my heart to see Donny not being able to escape the cycle of abuse
Agreed with this.
He wasn’t going back to be abused. He has upgraded to abusing others.
@@Cardsmaster right, he do be climbing that corporate ladder
Agreed. It broke my heart to see Donny go back. I was screaming "Nooooooo!" at the screen.
He just wanted to confront his abuser to show that abuser had no power of him. He takes his power back. He never saw the abuser again.
I feel like the ending was more of a way to show that him offering her a cup of tea which led to her stalking him wasn’t actually his fault. because someone else did the same thing for him, so he is not to blame for Martha stalking him, because what he did was normal and in a way, I feel like it’s such a beautiful wrapup for his story because throughout his monologue, he kept wondering if it was his fault that she started stalking him and then in the end the show is literally showing us that it wasn’t his fault.
I love love loved Teri! And I’m so glad she got out of that situation!!
Hahaha yeah while I felt bad for Donny, I was so with her when she broke up with him. It was the right call for her own mental health, and she wasn't in a position where she could really help him anyway. In the interview about the real story, Richard was also like yeah the real "Teri" was the voice of reason in my life, would always call me on my bullsh*t, should've listened to her better.
@@KarlSnarks yea I couldn’t stand seeing her get hurt anymore from Martha or Donny. I feel for him but he just was in no position for a relationship at that point.
@@brizzleyoh Yeah exactly
Teri is a he
I thought the ending was perfect. At that moment, he realized why Martha called him Baby Reindeer. And with all the episodes he's been through, he was there sitting and crying with no money to pay for the beer. Then this bartender offered him kindness, he understood what Martha had been through off-screen (we only saw a glimpse of it in his Google search).
In short, I didn't think the last scene was to suggest Donny was to become Martha. He was only to understand that this has been all normal for any unlucky human being to become. The highest form of empathy really. This is probably how he could relive it all on-screen again.
As a survivor, a lot of times ive wished I could let people see my past to show what I cant bring to words. This show was exactly that. The way he spoke the trauma out loud is so powerful and made me want to learn to do the same.
Me too ❤
I worked as a manager and forensic examiner of a sexual assault and rape centre. The road he went on with Martha is so real. The whole trying to understand his sexuality and the abuse he suffered is so real. I have dealt with so many people who suffered trauma from stalking and sexual assault/rape. She is a victim of her abuse and her disassociation is so well done. Both the actors who played Donny and Martha are absolutely brilliant. It's a dark and difficult series to watch but is also so real. It's even better acted than " it's a sin". Deals with grooming very well and is a master piece of television. If you found it uncomfortable.......know it is actually real for some.
The fact that episode 4 is where it is is nothing short of brilliant from a storytelling perspective. After 3 episodes of feeling frustrated, angry and scared of Martha, we get an episode where perhaps a larger evil takes over and I ended up missing Martha and that, regardless of her flaws, her actions are from a relatively good place and she never meant to hurt Donny intentionally, whereas Darrien's intentions were insidious from the get go. It was actually a relief seeing Martha back following this episode.
Fantastic point, I couldn’t agree more!
I love that Donny doesn’t paint himself as a perfect victim. He admits he made it worse and wasn’t always a good guy.
Good take
I understand your point of view, but I do not agree: Martha is a ticking time bomb and potentially dangerous. The fact that she starts having fantasies of zipping his chest open so she can live inside of him, after a random act of kindness, is a huge red flag to me. Not to mention the high level of manipulation she displays telling him this as a matter of making a joke. After all he’s a comedian…🥶
The main character reminded me of a lovely man I met many years ago. I really liked this guy but he had a deep deep sadness that was caused by abuse from his own father and others. I had a choice to be there for him and try to love him and support him, or walk away for my own sanity. It was like looking into a deep dark hole of depression (which I hadn't experienced) and choosing the light instead. I walked away from this tortured sweet man for my own well being. I often think of him and question if that was the right thing to do. This series was brutal but so so needed in this wounded and traumatised world. 10 out of 10.
Walking away was absolutely the right thing to do. Hope that other person found the light on their own.
Donny has deep-rooted shame from multiple traumas (intergenerational, sexual etc.), which is a self destructive emotional driver that coloured his responses to his abusers & his dysfunctional behaviour within his relationships. It draws attention to the importance of getting help…and how complex these matters are.
Absolutely, I agree! I would say even draws attention to the importance of those we see as Marthas, or even Darriens, of the world getting the right help and accountability for actions, too. There aren’t perfect victims or perfect human monsters.
Because as humans, we are capable of this wide spectrum of experiences and choices. When we have quality support and resources, we start to know oneself, learn skills and coping tactics, and understand others deeply. We are less likely to hurt others around us with our unresolved trauma, like Teri was hurt. I feel it even touches on how many of our current typical systems for reporting and seeking help fail us. They fail both victims and the perpetrators. It touches on how abuse that abusers experience can be an explanation for their baggage and motivations, but not an excuse for all their choices made.
I didn’t think the ending was on the nose. I thought it raised more of the right questions about victimhood, abuse, empathy, and all their sticky threads. The series does this while it maintains that every case is unique. There is a sense of thoughtful perspective and comic relief that is hard to find around these topics.
This was a masterpiece. I will be disappointed it if doesn't get a lot of awards.
I agree! Particularly the actress for Martha and for writing on episode 4!
Should win all the awards.
It definitely has to. The actors were so good
I haven’t had a show or movie effect me like this since requiem for a dream. This thing left me speechless
Same
Thank you!!! Yes! It was the same thing! I couldn't put my finger on it. But yes!
Wowww same!
Then see "Lof mér að falla" ("Let me fall") directed by Baldvin Zophoníasson
@@maxiambervillenoted!
I’m still surprised it’s a Netflix show didn’t think they would make a show so dark, an absolute rollercoaster of emotions throughout
The earlier seasons of YOU are also crazy dark and have a lot of stalking and emotional abuse and obsession. Just portrayed from the stalkers POV
Netflix made black mirror, the most disturbing show ever
@@TheKharliabee omg duh how did I forget literally one of my fave shows
@@r0ckmom yeah I really enjoyed the first season, I think it kinda went downhill after unfortunately
Richard Gadd has that awkward indie guy vibe.. Netflix loves that aesthetic if you haven't noticed in the past 10 years.. :T
Your recommendation for it ending with Donny counter stalking Martha in prison would not send the same message - Donny isn’t obsessed with Martha as a person, he is obsessed with the validation she gives him. How she makes him feel about himself. That’s why he arranged all her voicemails according to various categories, so that when he is seeking to relive a specific emotion or need another hit of validation he can choose the one that’s gonna give him the appropriate dopamine hit he needs in the moment. He’s just obsessed with the idea of being fawned over. And interestingly, people who have survived a lot of trauma have higher levels of cortisol. He seeks out the dopamine hit in order to offset his cortisol levels temporarily. Which makes it even more prevalent that at this stage of his life/ recovery he is not capable of a genuine connection or healthy love
I think Donny's role can't be understated. The level of self pity you could see in his expression when performing. You can't pretend things like that. It wasn't acting. He was living his trauma's. And that's really the thing that hooked me at first. I believed his look before i even knew anything about the production.
It's a wonderful thing when you just happen to stumble onto a masterpiece like this as it's rooting itself into the culture's awareness. That's what makes this completely unique. Just how much of it is real being transfered onto a story.
Everyone praises Teri, but I realy didn't like her. She claimed she was a therapist, but she never once felt or acted like one. She was almost cruel at moments with her sassiness and lack of empathy. If they told us she had literally any job, I wouldn't care - but it takes more than just saying "I can help, I'm a therapist" if you never actually act like one. A lot of professions really do encompass your personality, I'm a kindergarten teaching and I feel my personality reflects that. Idk I just never vibed with her. She went to his comedy show with her friends just to mock him, doesn't seem like an empathetic therapist
I think it was in large part an acknowledgement of how Donny treated her as a trans woman. It's difficult to understand if you're not seen as a "socially invalidating" partner for someone to have, but while her reaction was imperfect, it was justified. As Teri stated in their last few arguments, it's taken a long time for her to be able to walk outside the door as herself, and to have a partner who validates her in private but couldn't bear how it would reflect on HIM to be dating her is confusing and hurtful and an old, tired, worn out story for a lot of women for various reasons, race, weight, gender, etc. She didn't have the full story and acted to restore her own pride. Which I think is very human, and while I don't know if her actions were fitting for a therapist, even talking to him at all after the initial lying and hiding was not necessary for her. She didn't have to stay at any of these points. I really loved Teri as a character, and she felt so real to me because she wasn't just a pseudo-Mother Theresa with an endless wellspring of love and patience. Even therapists are human and a key part of being a therapist is teaching people how to set boundaries when someone in their life is hurting them. This is a really long and somewhat unnecessary ramble but that's what I understood of her, and I really did like the depth of her character and how you could feel she's probably been in similar situations so many times and chose to do better for herself.
My take on his failure to work for Teri…this won’t be popular…the abuse Donny suffered sexually at the hands of a male was driving his inconsistent attraction to Teri. Donny was actually validating Teri’s masculinity.
I totally agree. I felt much the same way about the character of Teri
This show was great. All the actors were so great. The fact that he was brave enough to share his story and to be so truthful, good or bad, with the decisions he made throughout his life is so powerful. I really felt like I was on a journey with him. It had everything, tragedy, love, confusion, joy, pain and comedy. It was really well done and I'm happy I stumbled upon it..... sent from my Iphhon 🤣🤣
Martha was so mesmerizing. What a talented actress. The switch between her emotions were so unsettling and yet magnetic, i couldn’t keep my eyes off
i haven't experienced sa, but a lot of people i love have. this show opened my eyes and made me understand the trauma responses of sa victims. i begrudgingly used to think angrily of them for not leaving sooner, for not speaking up sooner but i realise now how difficult that truly is. i appreciate this show for touching on taboo subjects in a controversial yet real and honest way. i think richard gadd deserves all the awards in the world
also ngl i agree with the points made on the last episode, but also... how else could he have possibly ended it? idk
I dont think it was a 'ohh ive become martha'. I saw it as the end if his compulsion and obsession to truly know martha and how her own compulsions and obsessions caused her to fixated and stalk someone who showed her kindness at her lowest. He had spent weeks studying her, listening to her voicmails and covering his bedroom with notes on her to try and understand. That last scene was him graduating from the crash course of martha.
Loved this series and great review by the way. Ill look out for a follow-up video from you. On another note I would have loved to see this as a stage play, any idea if there is a video on it as a play? Also has anyone seen the viral video of his breakdown?
Great point!
In regards to your bottom paragraph, I’d love to see stage play but can’t find anywhere
I did read in an article, should’ve mentioned in video that the viral video moment didn’t happen in real life, instead of the viral video moment, the stage play of this show was what got him famous! Hope that helps!
@marshallstannus thanks so much. lol I thought that part was real as well was wondering why I couldn't find it 😆
@@marshallstannus @nordette I don't understand why I can't find a recording of the play (Monkey see Monkey Do). I would have thought that Gadd would have it available for download somewhere to cash in on the Netflix release or that Netflix would have bought it too!
Anyone ever find a link to it, please post...
@@marshallstannusI think if anything the final scene was adapted from real life Richards own mind at the time of the incidents. Because videos of his old stuff have circulated with similar set designs etc so Richard is putting himself in that situation again through donny. It can also be seen as a substitute for the "one man one show" concept it originates from
Your comment on that last scene being Donny graduating from the school of Martha was *chefs kiss* perfect
The show does a brilliant job at showing how abuse thrives in the gray area of politeness and care.
abusers will chip away at your boundaries by playing on your empathy and your dreams.
How they groom you, how you play into it because it’s flattering, how when they cross the line you’re already overwhelmed and they know exactly how to manipulate you.
Healing from trauma means there are two realities, yours and the abuser. You can twist the facts, you can over every detail but the fact that remains is the abuser hurt you. The abuser may never agree, never apologize, the world may never protect their next victim.
When things are gray, when you aren’t the perfect victim. Are you allowed to hurt, allowed to tell your story, and own your truth.
The only way forward is to accept that their are multiple truths, AND you were hurt. And it was wrong.
Dude, you could not have articulated that review any better! I literally binged it all yesterday! Such a brave man
Thank you so much!!
I agree that the parallel in the end to the roles being reversed was too obvious, but-- and let me know if I'm the only one here -- interpreted the look he gave the bartender to almost be a look of him realizing that he did nothing wrong by being kind to her, and him offering her a cup of tea didn't invite her to uproot his entire life. I thought his look back at the bartender was a look of realization, "I'm not as much like Martha as I thought I was." I also love how everyone feels differently about the ending to this show!
I loved the ending. I loved that it wrapped it up nicely with a bow at the end but still leaving a some room for interpretation.
Finally, I found a channel that did a reasonable breakdown of this show, thank you. It is one of the few shows that portray deep-embedded emotions creeping within humans that blur the line between the good and the bad and what loneliness and trauma do to a human in seek of validation and assurance. In the end, the strong family bond brought a ray of hope with him clearing his chest out by letting the tears flow in front of his parents. But the emptiness might linger inside, always, one just has to cover it with other choices.
So well put!
My god
Your comments are so true. I 🫡 sir. This was unbelievable series. Their were so many levels of the true human experience
I am thinking of doing a breakdown myself
This was one of the shows that stick with you for weeks. My heart aches for what Donny went through. And how Richard was able to act out his lived experiences, just made it all too insanely real to me. When I watched the series there were no videos on it yet and I’m so glad to be able to dissect this others… because man.. I don’t think I can rewatch it ever again
The ending is as deep as the viewer is inclined to see. As it's the inversion of the start of the story. At the end. What goes around comes around. It's brilliant.
Carl Jung, one of my favourite quotes of his "judgement is the inversion of morality".
I would also add that the scene was saturated in humility as it recognises his act of kindness in the beginning, shouldn't be dismissed because of his experiences. As everyone suffers.
It is such a mature and compassionate work of art. We need more of this, speaking to the higher aspects of the human spirit as it tackles some of the darkest aspects.
How goodness and the wisdom of goodness shines through the darkness.
It is so good. I thoroughly enjoyed this series. It really is a work of art.
I really hope you have a part 2. This was one of those blue moon shows you find. I just put on episode 1 to have something on, and at the end of each episode I was holding my face going “ooooohhhh lord” and hitting play next. It goes into territory that has almost never been explored in popular media and I would say it’s pretty groundbreaking in that respect. It had me evaluating some of my own choices and my own history of trauma in a way that felt non judgmental and constructive, and the show was just so entertaining. Great video mate
Thanks so much for this lovely comment!
I think I’m going to have to do a part two and really get into the nitty gritty, as long as you’re happy with less footage used for copyright! Thanks for the great comment mate
I stayed in bed entire day watching series...❤❤❤❤
OMG I screamed that someone watched this too. Wow, I don’t think I have seen a more uncomfortable show. But not a bad uncomfortable a necessary uncomfortable. Great conversations to have after.
It was very pinful to watch. At times I had to catch my breath. It trully was a masterpiece. The acting was incredible too.
Really amazing show. Don't know if you get Law & Order SVU, but over and over again. They explain that victims sexual violence are not always perfect. They do things that look counter-intuitive. But that's part of the abuse. That Donny is so sympathetic to Martha is maddening. Still it's very helpful to see that messiness and appreciate it's his way of coping in crazy situation.
I don’t think he deliberately continued to lead her on. Initially he acted out of sympathy and/or pity for her. When he tried to let her down and end it her mental state immediately switched and his response was to do what ever he had to and he tried not to hurt her.
He was caught in a trap.
At the end where he was listening to her messages again.. he did in a way miss her, he said that. This took place over 6 years.
And finally we know he’s ok now because he is a real person who is now thriving because of his brutally honest telling of this time in his life.
I really hope this show wins all awards. What an awesome series. Well done x
I found this series really impactful. I relate a lot to his realisation that his empathy is a result of his own self hatred..... I have collected wounded souls all my life and of course I have abuse in my background... I am so glad this series is out there
I watched this series last night. I loved it. One of the things I took away from it, was everyone around him seemed to have some kind of trauma or needed some kind of therapy.
Excellent writing.
We all do…
I had a "Martha" in my life but on a less dangerous level. She would comment on nearly all of my posts, copied all of my interests, and even wanted to buy matching outfits. She was seriously overwhelming and creepy, and people in my life warned me about her, but I was at such a low point due to trauma that I let her take over my life. I hated myself for giving away so much of my time to her, but I felt such overwhelming pity and also indulged in the attention I lacked growing up. She always said what a kind person I was, so if I ignored her, I felt like that wouldn't be true. She would act like I was selfish for not answering the phone immediately, even on special occasions which she always seemed to sabotage. She had taken my most valued trait, my empathy, and used it against me. She also pushed me to reveal and repeat my deepest traumas, bringing me to a low place week after week to keep my self esteem low enough to respond to her validation. After I finally confronted her about her behavior, she blocked me, only to pop up again wanting to reconnect. I wished her well but didn't engage. But I did spend months watching TH-cam videos about stalkers and codependents, trying to understand exactly what I had been through. It all felt like a terrible addiction which didn't serve either of us, and I can genuinely say that I am much better off on the other side of it. However, I am more closed off from people, worried that being too kind might invite the next "Martha" in.
this show is a masterclass of subtext.
So much is said without actually being said. Though this show and the characters are brutally honest about their emotions and trauma. I think my favourite scenes are those where the facial expressions of the characters give a whole monologue of what the character is feeling without uttering a single word and sometimes they only last a minute or a few seconds.
This is an extremely depressing biopic. At the same time, perhaps this is an important series to watch for anyone who has been abused in this way. For those who suffer with self-esteem, for victims living this life with self-loathing.
It is not an enjoyable watch, but it's useful to gain understanding in abuse, mental illness, and the repercussions it has. I wish Richard Gadd well, and continued healing. Hopefully he is being very good to himself.
As for the stalker, also a victim of abuse, I hope she is getting serious professional mental health help, and on her way to healing as well.
This world we live in is frightening. The natural beauty of life is under grave threat.
Great job breaking this show down! It was fantastic and so provocative. It's one of those shows that you instantly want to get other people's take on. I hope it ends up reaching a wide audience. I'm now subscribed!
it definitely gives End of the F****** World vibes. the pacing was also great!
Even though we can judge Donny's actions of being terrible, we all know for a fact that we have done terrible things that no one is willing to admit to. Whether it was due to someone or something from the past, instincts, or simply something out of character, everyone had to apologize for bringing sadness or shame. This show was so enjoyable to me because no character was perfect, no glossy abs and shiny hair and bright characters like in every young adult fiction show on Netflix. Similarly to Marath's writing, this show was raw, unfiltered, and unmistakably real.
Your video is exactly the discussion I wanted to have after watching the series. You touched on everything I wanted to talk to friends about. Thank you so much for this excellent overview!
He loved hating himself more than loving Terri...that resonated with me. It was about self loathing as much as it was about Martha, sexual confusion and stalking.
I can’t believe you parsed this so quickly. I’m still unpacking it after yesterday.
Was looking for a bit of a breakdown of the show since I don't really like watching TV and came across this video. Really liked your analysis of it and gave me a general sense of the themes of the show, thanks!
The quietness and awkwardness in the show makes you feel like you’re there living it. In certain uncomfortable scenes it’s dead silent in the background makes you feel the awkwardness and emotional pain.
this is a profoundly real take on trauma, I loved this show. so hard to watch but so real , nothing like it out there
Great acting by all but the women who played Martha took the show. She was brilliant.
I enjoyed!!! I didn’t expect to like this show as much as I did. Having been the victim of the solved myself it helped me make sense of a lot of things. I enjoyed your thoughts on it and your breakdown. You’ve definitely gotten a subscriber here.
I watched it all yesterday. Blown away. It reminds of the stunning Australian film- Roy Holsdotter live.
This is one of the best new things I've watched in a long time
It's beautiful watching an amazingly performed and written and intricately nuanced and deeply opening vulnerability series
As an ED Fringe Festival Fan I so regret that I haven't seen this One Man show live. Im sure this would have been a stunning performance! What an amazing show this was! blown away and flabbergasted how good this was. Took me by surprise. First I was annoyed by the weakness of the Main character and how he could let that all happen, but it all makes completely sense when you hear his story in episode 4 and 6 when he has his monologue on stage. Powerfull, shocking, funny, weird, sad, moving all at the same time. Life is stranger than fiction! You really can say here, when life gives you lemons make lemonade out of it. He truly turned his misery and trauma into something amazing with this story, with he now gets global success and admiration. Best Mini-Series in years. Im sure this will become the next Fleabag! I think the ending was clever too puting him in the same spot as martha was in the beginning. Makes it even more understandable how quick u can end up on the side of the pitied one and why he felt for her in the first place.
It's an incredible series. Wow. It was so hard to watch some of it, Richard was incredible in it. I'm blown away that the guy who experienced this is the main character xx
Really love how the show really makes you think, def a huge mind F**k & really makes you think. Glad that he was comfortable enough this day & age to share his experience.
I have heard things about this series but had yet to really consider watching it until I watched most of your video (I paused 12 min in) gonna go binge Baby Reindeer be back!! ✌🏾
This story was so good! I really hope people watch and just process this. Like this is what life can do, and there isn't always a "We got em" moments
SPLENDID series!! It gave some of the same CHILL that Match Point did (the second time around, as a FULL GROWN adult)
What's crazy is how well he played his part. I hope he took care of himself during filming.
Fantastic review ! I’m obsessed watched it hungover and wow did it sober me up 😂👌🏻 so much to think about.
love your review! i agree w you strongly, with the critism at the ending too. i've been searching video talking about this show since i watched it but suprised tehre arent many
really appreciate your take on this! i’ve just finished watching the show today and honestly am still parsing through my thoughts, it was so heavy at moments and I can tell it’ll stick with me for a while. would love to hear your opinion further in a part 2!
OOOOO I ACTUALLY DID ONE! And I’m working on a part 3 as we speak!
Thanks so much btw
I went to watch this show after just hearing your intro,it was so good! I only got four episodes in, I couldn't finish ep4- it really got to me, but it's insane to know he was storytelling his own abuse and as$ault... truly passionate and powerful show. I hope someday I'll be able to finish it lol
I haven't seen a more accurate presentation of s3xual trauma since Irréversible or Lilya-4-Ever
In my opinion the final scene wasnt supposed to be the show saying him and Martha are the same, but actually showing how theyre different. I feel like that scene shows Donny "I didnt invite this, no matter what I mightve done to lead her on I didnt deserve all the bad things shes done to me."
You did a brilliant job of articulating what I imagine is on the tip of everyone’s tongue since watching this show. I thought everything you said was spot on.
So many relatable, human moments to this show.
Thank you so much! This means a lot!
@@marshallstannus since watching the show it’s been stuck in my head like a favorite song and I’ve been struggling to put into words how and why it was so impactful for me AND YOUR VIDEO JUST GAVE ME ANSWERS!!! Thank you for your thoughtful critical analysis. Really appreciated buddy 🙂
Episode 4 was extremely relatable. Why did I continue to let him in my house? Continue to play games with him? Continue to eat lunch with him at school? Do I only have interest in the people I do because of him? It felt like he asked me what I’ve been through and wrote an episode that parallels it.
What an important series and review about trauma. Esp the freeze and fawn aspects of trauma. Everyone talks about fight or flight. Our society expects that trauma response. Freeze and fawn lead to more complicated and complex places and discussions. Thank you.
Great insights, Marshall. Really appreciate to see you go in-depth with their characterizations and motives in the series. Donny Dunn and Martha Scott are multi-dimensional characters. Or multi-faceted characters. Can’t tell which is which, but whatever. Anyway, it’s incredible how they (I mean, Donny) isn’t playing around with the victim mentality mindset. He knows deep down he has flaws. Like for instance, he keeps rewinding Martha’s voicemails and he returned to his abuser’s place, which is telling us all that Donny isn’t as squeaky clean of a human being others would likely want him to be. Victims are supposed to be portrayed as innocent, but that isn’t really the point of the show. Like cake, eeveyone’s got layers to them. You’ve got to unveil them one by one. Per episode, you feel as if you’re in their shoes somehow and feel the conflicting emotions, thoughts, and feelings that come with being a flawed but still fairly intellectual person.
Brilliant comment
Thank you
I can relate a lot to wondering if your orientation is due to abuse.. and not understanding why you repeatedly go back to an abuser and become attached to someone that uses and hurts you.
I've never seen anything that felt so real and relatable.
It was incredible to see this story on screen.
Heart torn and mind blown.
P.s. I am female also! I'm glad you mentioned it's a human experience
What a brilliant take on this series
I was just searching on Netflix this weekend, Decided to watch and I was blown away! The ending was perfect! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
The zoom in during your back scratch made me LOL
I think this show is a great insight into how abuse changes people in ways that aren’t always favorable to others narratives. So many people live in shame and it’s something that’s encouraged to experience alone and is unique to that one person. Trauma thrives even with therapy, community, and familial support. I’m glad that you highlighted the fact that this story shouldn’t be solely about a man’s perspective.
Expected this video to have 20k likes and only realised halfway through you were a smaller creator! Such a good take
GREAT show, uncomfortable, intense, controversial and honest. I really suffered while and after I watched it.
Perfectly summed up. I watched this back to back and cried when he said he hated himself more than he could love. Oh, I can relate.
I really this loved this series, it was very well done.
I think the lyrics to the song ( I started to cry which started the whole world laughing) addresses his being aware of becoming famous because of his trauma 😢
Thanks, watching the intro got me bing-ing Baby Reindeer. I cringe so much in the first episode, but also feel bad for both sides, way deep down. His kindness, at one point, really starts to feel cruel because he knows what it propels. You can blame the circumstances all you want, but if your inaction hurts you and people around you, then part of it is your fault too. I am not undermining any of his abuse, but throughout the story you really feel that self loathe has turn him into a drama junkie. It feel bad for him, but it's also frustrating how he let down so many people in the process.
ps. Donny gaining fame from his honest, traumatic breakdown just reminded me of Black Mirror and it's just depressing.
Marshall your points are on point. This series was poignant incredible truly visceral. I was about to dump Netflix but this single handly changed my mind. This was brave this was the best of British. Over to you America beat that
Some of the best character development in years. Also, totally agree with your fleabag comparison balancing cringe and sentimentality in similar ways
I think your thoughts are very valid and I have to say, watching ep. 4 made me think the very questions Donny asked himself... Because I am to blame what happened back then, and it was my fault to the certain extent. And why did I go back. I hope one day both Donny and I can forgive ourselves. Baby Rendeer is really really good tv with great actors. I hope this will start different kinds of conversation we aren't really having.
About stalking, I find it cruel that people really stalked the actor's friends and "found the real Martha", like... that wasn't the point.
Yeah this show was so good!!!! I couldn’t turn it off & had to watch all at once & for some1 that watches everything on Netflix & prime that’s saying a lot. I couldn’t believe it was really about him IRL!!!! So good!!! Thanks again & gods bless every1
18:34 I really liked your point that while it is good to focus on men for once, we don’t want to forget that women experience this too. I read a comment by a female trauma survivor on another video and she said that Donny exhibits freeze and fawning which are two trauma responses that are much less studied that fight and flight precisely because the former are more common among women and the latter are more common among men
It is sad that I don't know anyone in real life who is willing to watch this and I need to find random people on TH-cam to talk to... but hey, it's great you are there! I'm rewatching now...
I am guessing that people purposefully avoid talking about what this show is about to sucker people into watching it?
It starts off as a comedic psychological thriller and that is mainly how it's being pitched in trailers and reviews. But this is a framework that is generally accessible that makes the true story about abuse a kind of Trojan Horse within it. When I talk about this to people, I go straight to episode 4 as I don't want to lie to people about how serious this show is. And surprise surprise, no one wants to watch it after I say this...
Yeah really interesting
I think for me I definitely thought the first 4 episodes were fantastic, peaking with episode 4/5
The last two slightly let me down.
I agree with you it’s a Trojan horse however I think the surprise pay off of episode 4 is incredibly satisfying, and it’s almost worth watching the initial episodes again with the knowledge of what happened to him prior.
It’s hard because I do think I could recommend the first 3 episodes to most people and they’d enjoy, but the last 4 I can’t🤷🏻♀️
I’ve recommended it to people plenty but only people I know can already handle the worst of what this show features, rather than just based on the initial tone of the first few!
Thanks for watching!
I kept trying today to tell people about it. My words never hit the mark. So, I hear you.
The levels to this. And the fact that Richard gifted us with all good, bad and the ugly. He gave us all the shame. It’s why it’s so good/ because it’s so dark. He was so vulnerable and brave/ and to be able to write it into a script, act it- holy shit!!
Please do a follow up. The last scene was indeed imperfect. I was longing and waiting through the whole last episode to see how it ended. Perhaps this was how it really ended for Richard. I’m still processing.
I think Richard’s “acting” was so great and magnificent, because he was re-enacting his traumas. That’s why he delivered.
I think at the end when he’s given the free drink it’s not to show how they’re similar but how they’re different. How I interpreted it is that when he gets this free drink from the bartender he realises that it’s truly just an innocent and kind act, and that when he did it for Martha, the stalking and everything that came after it was not his fault essentially, and that him giving her the cup of tea and showing kindness should not be at all blamed for how she acted
donny's dating record is absolutly disgusting and made me puke while the stalking thing was an interesting story!
his experience with the police was very relatable for many women
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts