Beautiful work, Ben. I am a re'TIRED' ASE master tech.which may or may not carry weight but, ponder this on water temp issue. I was in the truck fleet rental biz for years and unfortunately we had novices and unprofessional professionals that used our equipment so we had to make it annoying in order to make it as stupid proof as possible. I converted all new additions to the fleet with a WATER PRESSURE gauge, (you wouldn't need this but )with the radiator overboard tube routed to the lower left corner of the wind shield so as to blow steam/coolant in drivers face and a sticker that said " If you see steam or antifreeze here,safely pull over and shut down engine " It stopped our engine overheat problems dead. We Pilots watch our gauges, constantly, right ! To me the logic behind water pressure as apposed to temp is, if you have a sudden un-see- able coolant loss, your temp sensors can be rendered dry before they can send the temp spike and you will not realize it before the engine valves or piston crowns start to seize. Too low a water pressure - means a leak Too high a water pressure means your making steam.
So So correct in that Water Pressure is so important. How much does the pressure raise the boiling point? Well, it's about 2-3 degrees for every psi that we increase the pressure of the system. Ben Haas - Absolutely Awesome Craftsmanship. Im a lifelong artisan and I can your dedication to such a high level of skill and craftsmanship. You truly do have a 1 of a kind design and airframe for sure. Thanks for sharing your found information. So many hoard their found information and experience. Thank You !
@@randygoodspeed6460 I have just seen your question. The answer can be in several forms. So I'll go with the most intuitive. Yes ! when weighing the two at the same Horsepower to Hp rating the auto looses because of the reduction drives, coolant, radiators and the wt. of ducting, the drag of said ducting, hoses clamps ect. The way to beat the disadvantage is to go with an auto engine that is of the same size ( takes up the same space) but produces more horsepower. Now the penalty for doing that is the total weight on the ability of the wings to lift the wt. difference. The balance of the airplane moves to a heavier front end, that has to be compensated for by moving something to the rear of Center of Gravity (CG) like the battery for a start.
I am really impressed with your knowledge and technical skills. Unless I missed it, and I listened closely, I didn't hear how much horsepower you think you are putting out. Really impressed with your final results.
My hat is off to you mate! I can tell you have done some enormous hours of designing and troubleshooting to get such an amazing result. Kudos to you :)) My dad builds his own engine adaptor kits for race cars, so I have some appreciation of how engineering something from scratch is very challenging.
Boy oh Boy! What a great video. THANK YOU for taking the time to do it. I'm at 8000 ft elevation also (CHAMA, NM )and I have been really thinking hard about the 801. If I can't have a huge wingspan, I need a powerplant that's light enough with balls enough that I can afford!. I'm pouring concrete for my shop this May and then after that I'll start my 801. I really appreciate your info Ben. Be safe.
Wow what a beautiful machine you have created. I really enjoyed your explanations and your attention to detail. Beautiful aircraft. Amazing power plant. I agree the Holly mixture block is really slick 👍👀
This video, and your engine installation are works of art! I love the amount of material that you covered given the length of the video. Also, you spoke fast enough to not annoy people that are already on a similar page as you; there are plenty of superficial conversion videos out there, yours if for the serious.. Thank you!
DeHavilland DHC-3 Turbo Otter ! My favorite Airplane to fly of all time... The plane is paid for so I do just enough flying to cover Insurance, Fuel and Maint. I can see why the conversions look so tempting, cost is through the roof on aircraft power plants.
Are you the former MotoGP world champion? And you are flying a Turboprop Otter for real too? :) A lots of moto guy are into aircraft also that's cool. Sorry I'm french from Québec Canada so my english is maybe hard to understand lol
Very very nice. Amazing engineering on your part. I got stumped about icing until you said where you live. Since I use to live and fly out of Rock Springs, I know what you were talking about. Beautiful aircraft. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
I've researched a lot for auto conversions, I'm going to do a fuel injection j37a 300hp 285 torque in a long ez going with stock upgrade ignition system and aftermarket ignition system. I'm going to machine my own psru . I really like to see other people do this .1 thing look up Gary Spencer long ez he runs direct drive for 360 something all aluminum engine and goes 250mph and 200mph at cruise. 2 barrel carb set up. But no redrive ..he made the cam run in the 3500 rpm range. Very good set up sir. It's fun to be different and have something cool..I think anyway.
This is a good video, you're explaining everything and step by step. I can see that controlling temperature by restriction rings is more difficult that using a good thermostat, the driver pulley could be better by having stops at the sides. The ignition looks very reliable, the radiator is of good size, it doesn't need any fan. I would like to listen this motor runing. Post them the video of it. Thanks for sharing the knowledge and the expierence.
Thank you for the detail very informative those who follow you can learn from your trial & error you formulated everything, it seems you did not buy something prepared which shows a level of skill. Thanks for sharing.
Hi, I was able to watch the video once more. and you're explaining all these facts very well. I have experience in Ford and Chey small blocks, would say the Chevy small block will give you more clearence for a couling than a Ford engine. Chevy has the distributor in the back of the block. I don't say you did a bad work, instead, you did, and have to feel proud of it! If something has to be done, you do it! It is not going to a store and buy it! You're are doing a great work.
the engine is mounted backward in the plane. the belt drive connects where the bell housing bolts. and because the engine is mounted backward the ford front distributor ends up at the back.
Thanks very much for this video, neat airplane and very helpful indeed. Especially on the cooling side. I am fitting a 411 SBC to a Pitts Special. And have spent a lot of time (years) on investigating and finally building a couple of drives, a 4 inch Morse Chain and most recently, in process, a dual carbon fiber belt drive. In the process I found Jack Kane at EPI who has an excellent website on all matters gear reductions, auto conversions etc. Jack has developed some really extraordinary drives and has among many other things analyzed a failed belt drive system on an experimental helicopter. Highly recommend you check out his site. Lastly, Gates has an excellent program that is available on their website that sizes the belts and calculates tension pre-load of the drive based on RPM, gear ratio, horsepower, size of pulleys etc. On my drive the recommended pre-load of the belt is about 1800 lbs per belt 7200 foot pounds of torque 2 inch radius lower pulley. . The pre-load needs to exceed the pull tension at max power or severe loads occur where the belt tries to crawl over the teeth. It is a common practice to not tension the belts correctly with sometimes catastrophic, and very inconvenient failures. Thanks again and best of luck...Jerry
You can do aerobatic moves as long as you stay in positive G's... The motor has no idea it is upside down... For fully inverted flight all I would need to do is set it up with a dry sump oiling system.. Altho the carb would have to go and fuel injection replacing it.
I was surprised you didn't go with fuel injection considering all the work you have done just on your engine alone. But you sure have given me a ton of great info. Thank you.
Felicitaciones. Soy de Argentina y recién veo el video. Tengo dos preguntas. 1) Que relación tiene la reductora. 2) Como rindió el carburador Holley en los giros de izquierda y derecha.
a major concern about converting auto engines for a continuous duty is to evacuate the heat involved in power generating process I have no experience in aircratf engines but a good experience in marine conversion for automotive engines about any automotive engine can make a good marine engine as you pay a particular attention to cooling and you stay conservative on HP delivred on a continuous duty basis. few challenge not involved on aircraft is that all components of a gas marine engine must be explosion proof ( SAE J 1171) including air intake strainer, distributor, alternator and its regulator, starter and any electrical equipment in the venicity of the engine,provisions should be made to catch raw fuel if mechanical fuel pump fails, the exhaust must be cooled to avoid incandescence sometimes, it needs fabrication of water jacketed manifolts, exhaust risers and water injectors to mix exiting cooling water to engine exhaust when the engine used differs from standards.
ok i hear alotta people say MOTOR, but in TECH school we were taught to call them engines i never questioned my instructor, about that, but in the real world i notice only a handful really call them engines,( motor) must be old school if you can clearify i would really appreciate that cuz i like to learn more on a daily basis, plz no harsh remarks, by the way you did an awesome build.........
In my opinion, motor should refer to electric, engine to gas (and other non-electric designs like turbines and diesels). However, language is always changing and most people use it very imprecisely. No one ever calls an electric motor an engine, but the reality is that many people call gasoline engines motors. Maybe not ideal to us language geeks, but just the way it is.
Jay Williams Ford MOTOR Co., General MOTORS, Outboard Motor. LOL. Try reading Merrian-Websters Colligiate Dictionary. You'll know then. If you were in the motor business, you wouldn't want your motor called an engine. I'll take Webster's word on it.
Jay Williams you are getting yourself confused motor and engine are interchangeable when they fist stated building cars there were known as motor cars because the wheels would rotate and propel car foward .any machine that can cause rotation is refereed to as a motor gas ,diesel or electric , it does not matter an engine is more specific to a automobile than an aircraft in an aircraft it is referred to as a power plant
Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I'm confused. As a side note, you should really try using some punctuation and capitalization when you write. Cheers.
I hear the whole "motor is electric" think a lot, yet rockets are sometimes referred to as rocket-motors. Also all the car companies have "motor" in the name: Ford Motor Company, General Motors, Bavarian Motor Works, ect.
I have seen many nuts and bolts on all types of machines vibrate loose in my 30 plus years as a aircraft mechanic, some with disastrous results. Just because it has not happened does not mean it cannot. I was not being critical of your work, it looks to be outstanding. Reality is shit happens and safety wire and cotter pins are a second chance for shit not happen, especially in airplanes. Be safe.
Might not be fast sounds like it solid and safe you did a damn great job on your build I'm not a pilot would like to be though just don't have the disposable income lol enjoy watching you guys though
Nice walk through, thanks. Personally I would have gone with the 331 stroker instead of the 347. Some compromises have to be made in piston design and rod ratio to make the 347 work that make it a little less long lived than a 331.
+sugershakify I needed the extra torque and the longer stroke gives me that. No reason to buzz the motor higher to get more Horsepower. IMHO. I agree with your comment though, Thanks for the compliment..
what are the horsepower and torque numbers for your engine and set up? I'm curious as Iam looking at a Bearhawk kit and another aircraft and iam comparing engines and redrive set ups that others have and are using
Bravo sir ! I'm convinced an auto engine is the way to go , the price for a Lycoming is ridiculous ! It's an ancient design . WW2 planes were water cooled no prob , air boats have direct drive and reduction drive no prob.Modern engines do not need dual Ignition and carb heat .
We can thank the lawyers for the higher prices. The prices are out of this world! Although I do prefer a Lycoming or a Continental over all others though. I just trust them. I am a tech in the auto industry and I see way to many auto engine failures on the ground! , could not imagine one failing on takeoff! Scary..........certain auto engines are much better than others though. I would not use anything GM. They are losing v8s left and right losing cam bearing, cams, etc. Toyotas are very very well built, the Subarus are so so, still kinda scary. Hondas are acceptable. Forget about Ford or Chrysler!
great video Ben, thank you. You helped with my like project. Do you keep both MSD ignition controllers powered at same time, or selected one at a time? I was concerned having 2 controllers hooked up at same time may damage them over time, weather they were both powered or not, as they share same wiring.
Since there is only one set of plugs, I run just one box at a time... Ignition #1 one is powered through my main buss and ignition#2 is fed straight from the post on the battery using a dedicated wire.. That way if the entire electrical system fails, I can shut down the master contactor and still be able to fire the plugs through Ign#2... My typical starting sequence is to start the motor on Ign #2 and then during taxi out and while going though my checklist, I switch to Ign #1... The only hiccup I have seen is the MDS coil switcher, #8210 ( Massive Diode) is it seems to not like to run more then 250-275 hours .. It picks up a very slight misfire, which I assume is from the high energy being run through it... I now replace it at 225 hour intervals....
Great looking build and thank you for all the info, particularly the problems you found and overcame. I was tempted to ask why ford and not the generally cheaper chevy with more and cheaper aftermarket parts. Size matters though and that is a good reason. I still wonder why a carb and why not electronic ignition?
Is that redrive just a reduced gear belt drive like you would see on a harley? That bending of the lower sprocket mount is amazing. I have had moments like that on projects where you say to yourself. "My god, what have I gotten myself into" but great adjustments. I have to say, so much good engineering on this conversion. I am looking to do my own version of what viking engines does with the Honda turbo charged engine. Thank you sir for this video. Great workmanship and architecture.
looks great not real interested in fast mine will be more of a holiday unit i am working on something a project where i intend to use a chevy gen 4 fuel injected do you see any hang ups thanks
+40cleco I check all the fasteners often and in 11 years........ NONE have come loose.. I know A&P are trained to safety wire every thing but I deal in common sense and reality.... Thanks for your feedback sir...
+Ben Haas If all the nuts and bolts were safety wired, you wouldn't have to check em all so often. Isn't "common sense" something most everyone has? Even those A&P guys too?
flat amazing. i have a buick v6 turbo setup out of a grand national. i wonder if i buy an aluminum v6 block and stick all the turbo setup (alum intake as well) for weight. that would give me a turbo, fuel injection and lightweight. less hp than what you have, but fuel injection would be great. no tweaking with mixture (i think. i am just getting into this field and would rather have a car engine that IO). any ideas?
Didn’t realize that fixed slats were so draggy! Due to the air being guided over the top of the wing. The upside down wing which forms the tail, is that draggy? How did you come up with the idea of the 45 degree angle at the rear of the radiator housing? Impressive job u did, putting a water cooled engine in a plane is hard, but u did it!
+Kenneth Cohagen Great question.. A regular Lycoming 0-360 rated at 180 HP with all the accessories weighs 379 lbs.... That same engine with a constant speed prop weighs 456 lbs.. My set up is highly detuned to around 400HP and it has a carbon fiber prop that is inflight adjustable and runs on unleaded car gas instead of leaded aviation fuel weighs in at 437 lbs complete.. More the twice the power and is 22 lbs lighter. And , where I live, it is usually below zero f a few months out of the year and using engine coolant to run through my heater to keep the cockpit in the 80's is wonderful.
Hi @4:13, I was looking at your radiator design... I feel it a engineering flaw on the radiator design in itself. Outlet and inlet are both at ,what i call the bottom.or does this radiator mount 90 degrees of this shown video? this way there is a actual "bottom and a top as per say to this radiator.Great video sir and lots of detailed work,congrats on your sharing you great innovative thoughts and engineering. 100- 100 ty
Jackie Lam About 3500 hours.... I do my own engineering.... And , surprisingly, the entire plane cost less then a new Ford F-150 pick up..... IMHO... Not bad for a 4 seat, one of a kind aircraft..... I LOVE America....
Also I seen carpet cleaner with 4cyl vortec engines which they are great but the engines are industrial so I don't know if there it's a diference on those machines the positive blower needs a great amount of horse and torque but not the pressure washer pump it needs like around 11hp and 36ft of torque very low requirement to operate . Please let me know if it will work tanks
All that sweet engineering, and you use a Holley carb ? I would have used fuel injection, with barometric pressure input to the ECM. Let's see it fly !
+george kuersten Holley 2 barrel is needed to limit HP.. Kinda like a NASCAR restrictor plate.. Plane is designed for 180 or so HP and I don't want it to break in half any time soon.... Video of it flying.. th-cam.com/video/AOF6eT6FRmY/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the video, I found it very helpful. I am doing the 4.3 with the BAP redrive. You mentioned there were a few scares. What were they? Thanks again!
Com'on Ben we want to see her in the air. When?? really really can't wait to see her soar. BTW how about balancing and CG management" I'm sure that plane was designed around some sort of Rotex or a Kawasaki. How did you manged to hang an American V-8 up on the nose without an extensive CG calculation and relocation? Informative and encouraging video though, thanx for sharing
Hello Ben. I looked in the Gates catalog and realized that they did not recommend the use of this belt on aircraft. Did this belt give you any problems during your use? Thanks for the attention, it's for an academic job.
+nexx456 I originally plumbed and built the plane to accept the Delta Hawk Diesel motor.. Till they turned out to be vaporware... And yeah.... I can do just about anything....
Great Video! , Thank-you for taking the time to make it, is Belted Air still in business ? and how does one get ahold of a McNielly mixture control block? Thanks again
Mark Battista Thanks... it was ALOT of work but very satisfying.... Plane is 11 years old this week.. Over 500 hours and about 110,000 miles on it... For comparison , that is 4 times around the earth at the equator....
Hi I have a question I want to built a pressure washer that has to be super quiet because I have to work at night so I figure a 4cyl car engine like a 1.8 so do you think it's possible with out over heating the engine? I need 800 to 1000 rpm so my question it's if I have to change anything on the engine to make it work or not really please let me know what do you think a bout this I know it's different but this is my best solution I know at low rpm a car engine it has minimal mechanical noise ..
My first attempt at a very short take off was something I will NEVER do again.. Motor was still detuned to around 360 HP or so.. I was running a 84" diameter Ivo Carbon Fiber Prop. I lined up straight on the centerline, stood on the brakes, full flaps and hit the throttle... When I hit 4500 rpms I released the brakes and the plane rolled forward about 20 feet, airspeed indicator was still sitting on zero.. And up it went, to about 50 agl.. Instead of leveling off and building a bit of airspeed I continued to see how steep it would climb. About that time the plane rolled past 90 degrees... I instantly reduced power, pushed the nose over, went full aileron ( flaperon) to counter the roll and used full rudder.. Luckily I got is back somewhat level and didn't crash into the runway but kept it in ground effects to build speed... Ended up landing it before the end of the runway, taxied back to my hangar and sat there for a few minutes catching my breath.. Best analogy I can express is to take a model rubber band powered plane and hold the prop and the entire plane rotates instead of the prop... The leverage effect of a 84" diameter prop is more then I ever thought.. Also, consider the plane was pulled into the air by sheer power and it was hanging on the prop. At that low of an airspeed the ailerons were not getting enough flow to function and counter the roll. Things I changed.. 1- Prop went back and got cut down to 76" before the next flight. 2- I NEVER rotate till I see at least 20 mph on the ASI.. 3- I NEVER use flaps for takeoff anymore.. Since the 801 is a VERY good STOL plane.. Best example is to watch my Go Pro video with music... th-cam.com/video/-e7WFB0o4Zo/w-d-xo.html In it I did taxi to the runway at maybe 15 mph. once I got to the runway edge, I hit full throttle.. Notice it didn't need more then a couple of feet before becoming airborne..
Nunya Buizness a carbureted engine needs a little heat in the manifold sometimes, I'd say even more in an aircraft application, which a composite intake wouldn't provide. IMO wouldn't be worth shaving maybe a couple pounds, with probably adding fuel puddling and icing problems.
Ah I thought he was fuel injected. Well on a somewhat unrelated note It will be nice when direct injection technology reaches piston aviation engines. Solves the whole problem of fuel freezing in the intake runners.
Hello Ben, just can't stay away from watching your video, the reason might be that I'm watching my own dream,. Need to ask a ques, don't you think it would be better if you ran the alternator with a toothed belt instead of a v-belt?
Aryajet A toothed belt is not needed for a alternator as the drag is less then 2HP at full output and V belts provide more then enough traction to drive it.. The main reason is redundant drive for the water pump, I can stand to lose the Alt and even the vacuum pump and be able to limp to the closest airport,, The water pump is critical for staying in the air... If you look close, I purposely run two belts , one goes to the Alt and one goes to the vacuum pump, but BOTH drive the water pump. So if I break one belt, the other one will still drive the water pump. Good question though.
I don't understand why the plane is aerodynamically dirty, the cowling looks as streamline as it's air-cooled counter part. Could it be the airplane's design?
. The lower driver sprocket does have stops. The belt is guided by that so it stays on the top sprocket perfectly straight... You can hear the motor runnng by going to the other You Tube Video. . It helps if you listen to it on a deck top computer.... lap tops just don't have the sound quality to experience the true sound..IMHO.
I am 62 years old and I can say, I have never seen a better professor. You are a credit to mankind. I could watch and listen this all day. Thank you.
Beautiful work, Ben. I am a re'TIRED' ASE master tech.which may or may not carry weight
but, ponder this on water temp issue. I was in the truck fleet rental biz for years and unfortunately we had novices and unprofessional professionals that used our equipment so we had to make it annoying in order to make it as stupid proof as possible.
I converted all new additions to the fleet with a WATER PRESSURE gauge, (you wouldn't need this but )with the radiator overboard tube routed to the lower left corner of the wind shield so as to blow steam/coolant in drivers face and a sticker that said " If you see steam or antifreeze here,safely pull over and shut down engine " It stopped our engine overheat problems dead.
We Pilots watch our gauges, constantly, right !
To me the logic behind water pressure as apposed to temp is, if you have a sudden un-see- able coolant loss, your temp sensors can be rendered dry before they can send the temp spike and you will not realize it before the engine valves or piston crowns start to seize.
Too low a water pressure - means a leak
Too high a water pressure means your making steam.
So So correct in that Water Pressure is so important. How much does the pressure raise the boiling point? Well, it's about 2-3 degrees for every psi that we increase the pressure of the system.
Ben Haas - Absolutely Awesome Craftsmanship. Im a lifelong artisan and I can your dedication to such a high level of skill and craftsmanship. You truly do have a 1 of a kind design and airframe for sure. Thanks for sharing your found information. So many hoard their found information and experience. Thank You !
may be u cAN ANS ? car engines r not to heavy for a plan
@@randygoodspeed6460 I have just seen your question. The answer can be in several forms. So I'll go with the most
intuitive.
Yes ! when weighing the two at the same Horsepower to Hp rating the auto looses because of the reduction drives, coolant, radiators and the wt. of ducting, the drag of said ducting, hoses clamps ect.
The way to beat the disadvantage is to go with an
auto engine that is of the same size ( takes up the same space) but produces more horsepower. Now the
penalty for doing that is the total weight on the ability
of the wings to lift the wt. difference. The balance of the airplane moves to a heavier front end, that has to be compensated for by moving something to the rear
of Center of Gravity (CG) like the battery for a start.
Free TH-cam comedy detective movies
Good stuff.
I am really impressed with your knowledge and technical skills. Unless I missed it, and I listened closely, I didn't hear how much horsepower you think you are putting out. Really impressed with your final results.
My hat is off to you mate! I can tell you have done some enormous hours of designing and troubleshooting to get such an amazing result. Kudos to you :)) My dad builds his own engine adaptor kits for race cars, so I have some appreciation of how engineering something from scratch is very challenging.
Boy oh Boy! What a great video. THANK YOU for taking the time to do it. I'm at 8000 ft elevation also (CHAMA, NM )and I have been really thinking hard about the 801. If I can't have a huge wingspan, I need a powerplant that's light enough with balls enough that I can afford!. I'm pouring concrete for my shop this May and then after that I'll start my 801. I really appreciate your info Ben. Be safe.
Wow what a beautiful machine you have created.
I really enjoyed your explanations and your attention to detail. Beautiful aircraft. Amazing power plant.
I agree the Holly mixture block is really slick 👍👀
This video, and your engine installation are works of art! I love the amount of material that you covered given the length of the video. Also, you spoke fast enough to not annoy people that are already on a similar page as you; there are plenty of superficial conversion videos out there, yours if for the serious.. Thank you!
DeHavilland DHC-3 Turbo Otter ! My favorite Airplane to fly of all time... The plane is paid for so I do just enough flying to cover Insurance, Fuel and Maint.
I can see why the conversions look so tempting, cost is through the roof on aircraft power plants.
Are you the former MotoGP world champion? And you are flying a Turboprop Otter for real too? :) A lots of moto guy are into aircraft also that's cool. Sorry I'm french from Québec Canada so my english is maybe hard to understand lol
Very very nice. Amazing engineering on your part. I got stumped about icing until
you said where you live. Since I use to live and fly out of Rock Springs, I know what
you were talking about. Beautiful aircraft. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
Awesome build! I especially like the engine mounts well done.
Nice Build
The Chronological order
of your dialogue related too the build is awesome.
Thank You for taking the time.
I've researched a lot for auto conversions, I'm going to do a fuel injection j37a 300hp 285 torque in a long ez going with stock upgrade ignition system and aftermarket ignition system. I'm going to machine my own psru . I really like to see other people do this .1 thing look up Gary Spencer long ez he runs direct drive for 360 something all aluminum engine and goes 250mph and 200mph at cruise. 2 barrel carb set up. But no redrive ..he made the cam run in the 3500 rpm range. Very good set up sir. It's fun to be different and have something cool..I think anyway.
Ben, thank you so much for sharing! Please explain how you did the weight and balance on your airplane and what is the bore and stroke of the engine!
This is a good video, you're explaining everything and step by step. I can see that controlling temperature by restriction rings is more difficult that using a good thermostat, the driver pulley could be better by having stops at the sides. The ignition looks very reliable, the radiator is of good size, it doesn't need any fan. I would like to listen this motor runing. Post them the video of it. Thanks for sharing the knowledge and the expierence.
Thank you for the detail very informative those who follow you can learn from your trial & error you formulated everything, it seems you did not buy something prepared which shows a level of skill. Thanks for sharing.
Hi, I was able to watch the video once more. and you're explaining all these facts very well. I have experience in Ford and Chey small blocks, would say the Chevy small block will give you more clearence for a couling than a Ford engine. Chevy has the distributor in the back of the block. I don't say you did a bad work, instead, you did, and have to feel proud of it! If something has to be done, you do it! It is not going to a store and buy it! You're are doing a great work.
the engine is mounted backward in the plane. the belt drive connects where the bell housing bolts. and because the engine is mounted backward the ford front distributor ends up at the back.
Great at engineering and explaining things. Alot of people cannot do both. thank you.
Thanks very much for this video, neat airplane and very helpful indeed. Especially on the cooling side. I am fitting a 411 SBC to a Pitts Special. And have spent a lot of time (years) on investigating and finally building a couple of drives, a 4 inch Morse Chain and most recently, in process, a dual carbon fiber belt drive. In the process I found Jack Kane at EPI who has an excellent website on all matters gear reductions, auto conversions etc. Jack has developed some really extraordinary drives and has among many other things analyzed a failed belt drive system on an experimental helicopter. Highly recommend you check out his site. Lastly, Gates has an excellent program that is available on their website that sizes the belts and calculates tension pre-load of the drive based on RPM, gear ratio, horsepower, size of pulleys etc. On my drive the recommended pre-load of the belt is about 1800 lbs per belt 7200 foot pounds of torque 2 inch radius lower pulley. . The pre-load needs to exceed the pull tension at max power or severe loads occur where the belt tries to crawl over the teeth. It is a common practice to not tension the belts correctly with sometimes catastrophic, and very inconvenient failures. Thanks again and best of luck...Jerry
Excellent work brother! That's a clean looking bird. Does not seem like a kit at all.
Nice work and great explanation! I hope you are still enjoying the place and perhaps have upgraded quite a few things.
You can do aerobatic moves as long as you stay in positive G's... The motor has no idea it is upside down... For fully inverted flight all I would need to do is set it up with a dry sump oiling system.. Altho the carb would have to go and fuel injection replacing it.
I was surprised you didn't go with fuel injection considering all the work you have done just on your engine alone. But you sure have given me a ton of great info. Thank you.
Very informative, thank you for the details, the good/bad ideas, and advice !
Felicitaciones. Soy de Argentina y recién veo el video. Tengo dos preguntas. 1) Que relación tiene la reductora. 2) Como rindió el carburador Holley en los giros de izquierda y derecha.
a major concern about converting auto engines for a continuous duty is to evacuate the heat involved in power generating process
I have no experience in aircratf engines but a good experience in marine conversion for automotive engines
about any automotive engine can make a good marine engine as you pay a particular attention to cooling and you stay conservative on HP delivred on a continuous duty basis.
few challenge not involved on aircraft is that all components of a gas marine engine must be explosion proof ( SAE J 1171) including air intake strainer, distributor, alternator and its regulator, starter and any electrical equipment in the venicity of the engine,provisions should be made to catch raw fuel if mechanical fuel pump fails, the exhaust must be cooled to avoid incandescence sometimes, it needs fabrication of water jacketed manifolts, exhaust risers and water injectors to mix exiting cooling water to engine exhaust when the engine used differs from standards.
ok i hear alotta people say MOTOR, but in TECH school we were taught to call them engines i never questioned my instructor, about that, but in the real world i notice only a handful really call them engines,( motor) must be old school if you can clearify i would really appreciate that cuz i like to learn more on a daily basis, plz no harsh remarks, by the way you did an awesome build.........
In my opinion, motor should refer to electric, engine to gas (and other non-electric designs like turbines and diesels). However, language is always changing and most people use it very imprecisely. No one ever calls an electric motor an engine, but the reality is that many people call gasoline engines motors. Maybe not ideal to us language geeks, but just the way it is.
Jay Williams Ford MOTOR Co., General MOTORS, Outboard Motor. LOL. Try reading Merrian-Websters Colligiate Dictionary. You'll know then. If you were in the motor business, you wouldn't want your motor called an engine. I'll take Webster's word on it.
Jay Williams you are getting yourself confused motor and engine are interchangeable when they fist stated building cars there were known as motor cars because the wheels would rotate and propel car foward .any machine that can cause rotation is refereed to as a motor gas ,diesel or electric , it does not matter an engine is more specific to a automobile than an aircraft in an aircraft it is referred to as a power plant
Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I'm confused. As a side note, you should really try using some punctuation and capitalization when you write. Cheers.
I hear the whole "motor is electric" think a lot, yet rockets are sometimes referred to as rocket-motors. Also all the car companies have "motor" in the name: Ford Motor Company, General Motors, Bavarian Motor Works, ect.
Beautiful piece of work. Props to you sir!
Great knowledgeable commentary. Thanks
I have seen many nuts and bolts on all types of machines vibrate loose in my 30 plus years as a aircraft mechanic, some with disastrous results. Just because it has not happened does not mean it cannot. I was not being critical of your work, it looks to be outstanding. Reality is shit happens and safety wire and cotter pins are a second chance for shit not happen, especially in airplanes. Be safe.
Might not be fast sounds like it solid and safe you did a damn great job on your build I'm not a pilot would like to be though just don't have the disposable income lol enjoy watching you guys though
Nice walk through, thanks. Personally I would have gone with the 331 stroker instead of the 347. Some compromises have to be made in piston design and rod ratio to make the 347 work that make it a little less long lived than a 331.
+sugershakify I needed the extra torque and the longer stroke gives me that. No reason to buzz the motor higher to get more Horsepower. IMHO. I agree with your comment though, Thanks for the compliment..
Дружище ты сделал отлично, самолёт супер
what are the horsepower and torque numbers for your engine and set up? I'm curious as Iam looking at a Bearhawk kit and another aircraft and iam comparing engines and redrive set ups that others have and are using
Bravo sir ! I'm convinced an auto engine is the way to go , the price for a Lycoming is ridiculous ! It's an ancient design . WW2 planes were water cooled no prob , air boats have direct drive and reduction drive no prob.Modern engines do not need dual Ignition and carb heat .
We can thank the lawyers for the higher prices. The prices are out of this world! Although I do prefer a Lycoming or a Continental over all others though. I just trust them. I am a tech in the auto industry and I see way to many auto engine failures on the ground! , could not imagine one failing on takeoff! Scary..........certain auto engines are much better than others though. I would not use anything GM. They are losing v8s left and right losing cam bearing, cams, etc. Toyotas are very very well built, the Subarus are so so, still kinda scary. Hondas are acceptable. Forget about Ford or Chrysler!
tailspin What about using bike engines, like Hyabusa or similar?
Wow... wonderful video! Thoroughly enjoyed watching!
You answered more than some of my questions more like all of my questions LOL I really enjoyed your video
great video Ben, thank you. You helped with my like project. Do you keep both MSD ignition controllers powered at same time, or selected one at a time? I was concerned having 2 controllers hooked up at same time may damage them over time, weather they were both powered or not, as they share same wiring.
Since there is only one set of plugs, I run just one box at a time... Ignition #1 one is powered through my main buss and ignition#2 is fed straight from the post on the battery using a dedicated wire.. That way if the entire electrical system fails, I can shut down the master contactor and still be able to fire the plugs through Ign#2...
My typical starting sequence is to start the motor on Ign #2 and then during taxi out and while going though my checklist, I switch to Ign #1... The only hiccup I have seen is the MDS coil switcher, #8210 ( Massive Diode) is it seems to not like to run more then 250-275 hours .. It picks up a very slight misfire, which I assume is from the high energy being run through it... I now replace it at 225 hour intervals....
very nicely done, good choice of components, only question.. why not fuel injection?
Great looking build and thank you for all the info, particularly the problems you found and overcame. I was tempted to ask why ford and not the generally cheaper chevy with more and cheaper aftermarket parts. Size matters though and that is a good reason. I still wonder why a carb and why not electronic ignition?
It cost a pretty penny but you can have the leading edges of the prop married to titanium
Btw this thing is badass, and im a ford lover too
Is that redrive just a reduced gear belt drive like you would see on a harley? That bending of the lower sprocket mount is amazing. I have had moments like that on projects where you say to yourself. "My god, what have I gotten myself into" but great adjustments. I have to say, so much good engineering on this conversion. I am looking to do my own version of what viking engines does with the Honda turbo charged engine. Thank you sir for this video. Great workmanship and architecture.
I am packaging a LS3 right now. I am interested in the belted air redrive. Are you still around Ben?
Awesome video ........... very informative ............ INSPIRATIONAL ........... Thanks Ben Haas ........... Awesome Plane ...........
Very beautiful work. I know this is an older video. Hope she is still flying..
Did it ever run ?.
I got tired of waiting and skimmed through it ..
Very well done. Impressive. Woulld like to see it fly,
What a nice engine package. Can you (is it possible) have a "both" position for the dual MSD ignition?
Hi Ben, is that a Vans RV 7 - or RV 8...?? not talking about your Zenith buddy
What doe that set up weigh? Also , after your experience, do you think you would benefit from an electronic ignition?
looks great not real interested in fast mine will be more of a holiday unit i am working on something a project where i intend to use a chevy gen 4 fuel injected do you see any hang ups thanks
Didn’t notice you talking about it so can someone tell what system does he use for reduction gearing
Thanks. Great video. 🇺🇸🍀🇺🇸
Well done. Would have liked to have seen more safety wired hardware though.
Nice airplane, and nice workmanship. I would have all the nuts and bolts on that engine lockwired and/or cotter pinned.
+40cleco I check all the fasteners often and in 11 years........ NONE have come loose.. I know A&P are trained to safety wire every thing but I deal in common sense and reality....
Thanks for your feedback sir...
Fair enough.
+Ben Haas If all the nuts and bolts were safety wired, you wouldn't have to check em all so often. Isn't "common sense" something most everyone has? Even those A&P guys too?
+Kirby oh c'mon guys....common sense in aviation is only applicable in GA...not 121 or 135,,,ha ha
clever
Nice set up
the entire purpose of experimental aviation on display right here.
flat amazing.
i have a buick v6 turbo setup out of a grand national. i wonder if i buy an aluminum v6 block and stick all the turbo setup (alum intake as well) for weight. that would give me a turbo, fuel injection and lightweight. less hp than what you have, but fuel injection would be great. no tweaking with mixture (i think. i am just getting into this field and would rather have a car engine that IO).
any ideas?
Sounds like you have a good game plan.. Finding an aluminum block might be a bit difficult though. ??
ta performance out of phoenix make em to support 2k hp. nutting but a thing. =)
kewl plane tho.
Amazing wealth of information
Very informative, your film making is very good also.
Great job bro, very nicely done.
Didn’t realize that fixed slats were so draggy! Due to the air being guided over the top of the wing. The upside down wing which forms the tail, is that draggy? How did you come up with the idea of the 45 degree angle at the rear of the radiator housing? Impressive job u did, putting a water cooled engine in a plane is hard, but u did it!
How much does the 347 weigh compared to a conventional aircraft engine?
+Kenneth Cohagen
Great question..
A regular Lycoming 0-360 rated at 180 HP with all the accessories weighs 379 lbs.... That same engine with a constant speed prop weighs 456 lbs..
My set up is highly detuned to around 400HP and it has a carbon fiber prop that is inflight adjustable and runs on unleaded car gas instead of leaded aviation fuel weighs in at 437 lbs complete.. More the twice the power and is 22 lbs lighter.
And , where I live, it is usually below zero f a few months out of the year and using engine coolant to run through my heater to keep the cockpit in the 80's is wonderful.
Wonderfull... and consumption figures? I bet it is also much more economical than that old 40s tech from Lycoming or Continental.
Hi @4:13, I was looking at your radiator design... I feel it a engineering flaw on the radiator design in itself. Outlet and inlet are both at ,what i call the bottom.or does this radiator mount 90 degrees of this shown video? this way there is a actual "bottom and a top as per say to this radiator.Great video sir and lots of detailed work,congrats on your sharing you great innovative thoughts and engineering. 100- 100 ty
Excellent work!
Thanks..... It was ALOT of work....
Yes.. thats for sure. Time, engineering and money.
Jackie Lam
About 3500 hours.... I do my own engineering.... And , surprisingly, the entire plane cost less then a new Ford F-150 pick up..... IMHO... Not bad for a 4 seat, one of a kind aircraft.....
I LOVE America....
a v8 for airplane engine, very interesting, nice work
Mopar4life440 Thanks.
Also I seen carpet cleaner with 4cyl vortec engines which they are great but the engines are industrial so I don't know if there it's a diference on those machines the positive blower needs a great amount of horse and torque but not the pressure washer pump it needs like around 11hp and 36ft of torque very low requirement to operate . Please let me know if it will work tanks
All that sweet engineering, and you use a Holley carb ? I would have used fuel injection, with barometric pressure input to the ECM. Let's see it fly !
+george kuersten
Holley 2 barrel is needed to limit HP.. Kinda like a NASCAR restrictor plate.. Plane is designed for 180 or so HP and I don't want it to break in half any time soon....
Video of it flying..
th-cam.com/video/AOF6eT6FRmY/w-d-xo.html
You could build the ECM to flat rate to the original rating of the plane if the car engine is higher rated than the plane engine
How does the oil pickup when flying inverted?
Extensive machining experience and Haas for a last name ... I'll bet I know what brand of CNC machines you use ...
You need to put a 2JZ-GTE in that plane
Too long in it's dimensions, has to rev too high to make power.
What bore and stroke combination did you go with to get 347ci?
Thank you for the video, I found it very helpful. I am doing the 4.3 with the BAP redrive. You mentioned there were a few scares. What were they? Thanks again!
Com'on Ben we want to see her in the air. When?? really really can't wait to see her soar. BTW how about balancing and CG management" I'm sure that plane was designed around some sort of Rotex or a Kawasaki. How did you manged to hang an American V-8 up on the nose without an extensive CG calculation and relocation? Informative and encouraging video though, thanx for sharing
Aryajet
There are several videos with sound on the net.... Here is one of a low pass...
th-cam.com/video/AOF6eT6FRmY/w-d-xo.html
nice video, tell me, do you think a gearbox on a 150 horse 4 cylinder ford would work? Why do you use a belt?
nice job on the build
Hello Ben. I looked in the Gates catalog and realized that they did not recommend the use of this belt on aircraft. Did this belt give you any problems during your use?
Thanks for the attention, it's for an academic job.
You have done a fantastic job Sir :-)
Hello Ben, what you need is a diesel engine which could run ob biodiesel. Can you do it? How reliable are these engine at 20,000 ft ??
+nexx456
I originally plumbed and built the plane to accept the Delta Hawk Diesel motor.. Till they turned out to be vaporware...
And yeah.... I can do just about anything....
Any video of the plane flying?
i would like to try this setup on a seawind, whats your thoughts? thank you for sharing
Hi Ben...what engine would you recommend for the bearhawk? It's a 4 place high wing tail dragger.
K0BLR ... Lycoming O360.
Great Video! , Thank-you for taking the time to make it, is Belted Air still in business ? and how does one get ahold of a McNielly mixture control block? Thanks again
Thanks for the nice words....
Hello friend, what is the ratio of your engine reduction box?
Absolutely beutifull work.
Mark Battista
Thanks... it was ALOT of work but very satisfying....
Plane is 11 years old this week.. Over 500 hours and about 110,000 miles on it... For comparison , that is 4 times around the earth at the equator....
Where can I find a mcneely mixture block?
Hi I have a question I want to built a pressure washer that has to be super quiet because I have to work at night so I figure a 4cyl car engine like a 1.8 so do you think it's possible with out over heating the engine? I need 800 to 1000 rpm so my question it's if I have to change anything on the engine to make it work or not really please let me know what do you think a bout this I know it's different but this is my best solution I know at low rpm a car engine it has minimal mechanical noise ..
Good job. Seems like you went through an awful lot just to fly slow. Congrats on your machining skills.
Ben is it still flying and what are the performance numbers.
must have been frustrating trying to figure out the airflow on the radiator
well done, well thought out, very interesting
+Alan Besherse
Thanks Sir.... It is a fun toy, altho a bit overpowered..
Ben Haas how do you mean over powered? Is it unstable when advancing the throttle?
My first attempt at a very short take off was something I will NEVER do again.. Motor was still detuned to around 360 HP or so.. I was running a 84" diameter Ivo Carbon Fiber Prop.
I lined up straight on the centerline, stood on the brakes, full flaps and hit the throttle... When I hit 4500 rpms I released the brakes and the plane rolled forward about 20 feet, airspeed indicator was still sitting on zero.. And up it went, to about 50 agl.. Instead of leveling off and building a bit of airspeed I continued to see how steep it would climb.
About that time the plane rolled past 90 degrees... I instantly reduced power, pushed the nose over, went full aileron ( flaperon) to counter the roll and used full rudder.. Luckily I got is back somewhat level and didn't crash into the runway but kept it in ground effects to build speed... Ended up landing it before the end of the runway, taxied back to my hangar and sat there for a few minutes catching my breath..
Best analogy I can express is to take a model rubber band powered plane and hold the prop and the entire plane rotates instead of the prop... The leverage effect of a 84" diameter prop is more then I ever thought.. Also, consider the plane was pulled into the air by sheer power and it was hanging on the prop. At that low of an airspeed the ailerons were not getting enough flow to function and counter the roll.
Things I changed..
1- Prop went back and got cut down to 76" before the next flight.
2- I NEVER rotate till I see at least 20 mph on the ASI..
3- I NEVER use flaps for takeoff anymore.. Since the 801 is a VERY good STOL plane..
Best example is to watch my Go Pro video with music...
th-cam.com/video/-e7WFB0o4Zo/w-d-xo.html
In it I did taxi to the runway at maybe 15 mph. once I got to the runway edge, I hit full throttle.. Notice it didn't need more then a couple of feet before becoming airborne..
Abom79 has the knowledge and equipment to build the sprocket
I would like to know where I can buy a belt reduction gears for a propeller
Look for places that sell sprockets for superchargers....
I can machine them but the prices are alot higher since I am a one off prototype shop..
Would be cool if you switched from the aluminum intake to a composite intake to shave off even more weight.
Nunya Buizness a carbureted engine needs a little heat in the manifold sometimes, I'd say even more in an aircraft application, which a composite intake wouldn't provide. IMO wouldn't be worth shaving maybe a couple pounds, with probably adding fuel puddling and icing problems.
Ah I thought he was fuel injected. Well on a somewhat unrelated note It will be nice when direct injection technology reaches piston aviation engines. Solves the whole problem of fuel freezing in the intake runners.
Nunya Buizness ... Carburetor icing takes place in the throat of the carb, not in the intake runners.
Hello Ben, just can't stay away from watching your video, the reason might be that I'm watching my own dream,. Need to ask a ques, don't you think it would be better if you ran the alternator with a toothed belt instead of a v-belt?
Aryajet A toothed belt is not needed for a alternator as the drag is less then 2HP at full output and V belts provide more then enough traction to drive it.. The main reason is redundant drive for the water pump, I can stand to lose the Alt and even the vacuum pump and be able to limp to the closest airport,, The water pump is critical for staying in the air... If you look close, I purposely run two belts , one goes to the Alt and one goes to the vacuum pump, but BOTH drive the water pump. So if I break one belt, the other one will still drive the water pump. Good question though.
nice vid . but do you have how to vids?
I don't understand why the plane is aerodynamically dirty, the cowling looks as streamline as it's air-cooled counter part. Could it be the airplane's design?
Nice work!
Well done Sir!
VW air cooled love your plane
Hi brother, what kind of engines are this? I would like to write it because I do not know the translation of speech
. The lower driver sprocket does have stops. The belt is guided by that so it stays on the top sprocket perfectly straight...
You can hear the motor runnng by going to the other You Tube Video. .
It helps if you listen to it on a deck top computer.... lap tops just don't have the sound quality to experience the true sound..IMHO.