Toilet Paper Makes THE BEST Black Powder? • Toilet Paper Makes THE... Toilet Paper Black Powder (Not All Brands Perform The Same) • Toilet Paper Black Pow...
I'm sitting on a glorified shipping container in Kuwait, waiting for a video to start on gunpowder made from toilet paper... oh God have mercy, is this really my life?!?? Yes, and loving every minute of it!
I work in a paper mill. We primarily produce standard 92 bright, 20lb test printer paper but we also run much thicker or thinner products of varying grades as needed. The thinner or fluffier you go the more soft wood is required (spruce/pine) to attain the required strength, thicker products like milk carton or construction paper require basically no soft wood and typically use a less refined grade of hardwood (primarily hybrid poplar, birch and maple). Also, whiteness is no measure of purity. Inert/fire retardant things like calcium carbonate and potash are commonly used to make paper look whiter. Even cheap brown toilet paper or hand towels are likely a better charcoal source than most other things since it is lightly refined but has no inert fillers/modifiers and it usually has little to no soft wood.
You made some excellent comments I wanted to add my 2 cents' worth: 1. Making charcoal over the hot coals in the wood stove works quite well and is more regulated than you think. The open pit and gas grill are difficult to regulate, gotta watch constantly. I tested my wood stove and with flames present the inside temp can be over 700 F, too hot for bp charcoal. When it is down to glowing coals, the temp is under 550 F and falls gradually, perfect range. I think it's a great way to easily and consistently make charcoal. Summer will be a problem, tho! 2. I also switched to brass balls due to what I discovered when I used lead media. For a year I was using 83 lead balls of 54 caliber but noticed my powder always weighed more after milling and my 54 cal balls were now about 42 cal. 83 balls (223 gr each) would originally weighed 1199 gm but now they weighed 817 gm. Media abrades media and over the year I lost 382 gm (0.842 lbs) of lead. Guess where that lead went. I got some water test strips off Amazon and a batch of my powder milled with the lead balls tested over 500 ppm of lead. So every time you shoot you are enveloping yourself in cloud of tiny lead particles. I would recommend everyone stop using lead media.
That's exactly what I thought was happening when he mentioned the cleanliness of the powder using brass. Lead being quite soft material is going to grind itself away over time.
@@exothermal.sprocket Like will grind like, so any media will wear itself down over time. You have to decide the lesser of evils of what you want shooting out your barrel. Lead is toxic af, ceramic will scour your bore and glass will sensitize your powder to friction. Since we have used jacketed bullets for over a century, I figure brass is the best option: nontoxic, has enough density to mill and won't harm your bore.
My fav part of your videos outside of all the useful info is you in the nicest way tell ppl to f*k off kindly by telling them to go make a video at the end. I'm a pyro here and love learning methods to make better BP
Alright , I’m pulling out all the strings on this one and I’m going to try a batch of tampon charcoal. I’ll have the results on a flow chart when the test is completed this weekend.
I just tried a batch with this really light wood that we get at my work. We get these crates in from Hungary and the support boards are like true 2x4’s they actually measure 2x4 and it’s a really light colored wood. I wish I knew what it was cause it makes excellent BP.
@@VladimirTheLeadHead if that's teak stockpile some in a sheltered place. when the time comes to make a new deck you'll be very happy. they made ship decks out of the stuff because of how good it is
If you read the Knight papers on Swiss manufacture, they feel that the creosote at 8% is ideal and contributes to the quality. They essentially place a measured amount of BP in acetone to extract the creosote out of the BP and pour it over absorbent packed glass tube to see it visually. Maybe the Scotts is lacking in many emollients (for skin feel) that the Cottonelle has that turn into a creosote in the finished product when the TP is chard. Thank you again for all your hard work. I just made a batch of charcoal on propane burner and collected a portion of the creosote in the condensed vapor to add it back to the finished product during pressing. If it works then I'll just have to find a way to remove the 10X liquid smoke smell, lol. On another note. I see a lot of requests for copy paper with contains 20-30% mineral filler or non-combustible ash like in your wood stove. You have proved or disproved stranger things. Maybe the 20-30% ash would create an outcome that no one would expect.
Those regional variations might be something to consider. Right now I'm using western red cedar and happy. Only single pucking and using 65 gr to get 1700 fps, so my economy isn't the best but it is consistent from batch to batch. Happy to get consistent results at this point. Keep up the science.
Guy i work with makes his own powder and is using double the volume to get the same velocity vs swiss.....however his shot to shot to shot velocity spread is in single digits as long as he cleans between shots so he's not bothered about the volume used
Interesting in your review of your technique for making muzzleloading propellent you mentioned purification of the nitrate. I just finished reading the book "Like Fire and Powder" by Grett Gibbons, and he devoted an entire chapter to this process. Seems quite involved, so I haven't tried it as of yet. Will be interesting to hear how you approach this. Looking forward to that full video. Thanks for what you do for the BP community.
At a paper mill, the lumber and process wood varied by season. The turpentine would overflow with some wood. Other times the soap was thick! Resins vs pure wood pulp. Our tp and tissues needed various chems and treatment variations to match the raw materials! The note papers and card papers were all effected by seasonal raw wood sources!
I agree! Thinner TP is not good, even if it is cheaper. As far as TP goes for cleanliness, Cottonelle got it right for a couple uses. So, if i heard correctly…you “might” have said, that swiss uses a variation of cottonelle where as goex uses a variation of scotts for charcoal?!?! Thanks for Jake for your awesome videos! I am really looking forward to watching your updated “antique muzzlelaoding propellent process”! Thank you sir!
The Cottonelle may vary regionally, since Georgia Pacific or whoever it is that is making it may have more than one paper mill. Most mills blend the wood that is used as the fiber source, for the best quality paper softwoods are greatly preferred, mills will accept hardwood for pulping but usually in small amounts - in whatever amount their engineers say can be accepted. The finest wood for fiber is fir and spruce, this worked out for them because before the mills were built eastern fir was basically a weed and was not considered to be good for much. Pine is good too and the mills will take however much is brought in. I grew up in a paper mill town and absorbed (lol) a bit of pulp and paper knowledge, and have worked in mills at times for outside contractors repairing stuff. Part of the pulping process is to remove all the lignin from the wood, leaving clean cellulose fiber, which is good for making charcoal. Since fir and spruce are already acceptable for making charcoal for bp, and eastern pine is already quite good in fact for that purpose, in hindsight it is not surprising tp can be a good carbon source. As to why cottonelle is better than Scotts, it may be that the particular mill that is making the rolls you are using is sold a lot of pine, or maybe if it is a West Coast mill one of the West Coast softwoods is particularly good. I live near a mill that makes tp and tissue paper, I don't know if the tp is sold out West or not.
I would have thought that the density of Scott's would have made better charcoal . I am really excited about the next charcoal test coming up . Thanks for another experimentation video that will help others in the future that are interested in this also .
I was not disappointed! Brilliant video and presentation, the usual sense of humor and, you're on a roll :) Sticking to the system that makes the findings matter - a flintlock as science equipment! In your early videos you were 90% as good as goex, now you're making crappy toilet paper shoot a tad better and tighter as goex! Your technique refines and that subscribe button chimes and chimes! "As good as Goex" is the benchmark but you're beyond - Really looking forward to seeing the procedure updates
A mate of mine manufactures toilet paper and paper hand towels , He told me theres all different blends , blends of Hard and soft woods, Recycled papers, different binders etc depending on if its Government supply paper thats like sandpaper on your arse or the super soft scented 3 ply..... He suggested to me, That washing the TP would help remove binders, perfumes etc etc...
@@williwonti it might require more work than practical since the thinner paper necessarily has a tighter fiber pattern. If willing to char it in several loose batches it might work. But ain’t nobody got time for that 😉
It appears that you are somewhere in the sw and wondering if you hav ever had to get rid of tumbleweeds they burn fast and so hot you have to back away. Maybe you could try them
I never considered how much difference the carbon source would make in the quality of black powder. I find your videos very interesting and it makes me want to try making my own powder. I have a lot to learn, haven't made BP since I was a teen and made my own firecrackers. lol Phil
Ok cotonell Is still the best choice as a source of charcoal at least until today, I'm agree to try to make the best BP as good as the best commercially available if not even better but at the same time cheaply enough. As always thanks for your videos!
Yes - 120 fps is considerable. This makes scientific sense since energy increases per the square of velocity - which means the last 100 fps you squeeze out of the powder is the 100 fps that contains the most energy, and the faster the bullet or ball flies the more energy will be packed into that 100 fps.
Once again, GREAT video informative. factual, and reliable. It is good to see that you can make very reliable black powder from a common source for charcoal. And I was going to rely on my supply of cedar, willow, silver maple, or aspen, but with a ready supply of bum wad, why bother, but not to use the recycled stuff. Thank you!
One thing to consider if you should choose to use bamboo. When Thomas Edison was searching for something to use for the filament in his electric light bulb he carbonized bamboo and those light bulbs lasted for many years.
You make shooting black powder look easy lol. Id be all about it, but my muzzleloader went with my ex, (I took back the KitchenAid mixer and gave it to my mom as a gift). Still I'm interested in making my own powder some day. I'm subbing.
Excellent content as always. I am looking forward to your complete video on making antique muzzleloading propellant. Thanks for putting these videos together.
Well you answered my question about kind of mixing grain sizes. Im going to rescreen my powder. Thank you so much. I have learned so much from you. Now I seem to be sharing this knowledge.
It would be interesting to know the consistency between several batches of Contenell purchased at different locations to determine if it’s a one off two thing. But of course all your productions are awesome. Inquiring minds want to know.
Really enjoying your channel. Appreciate the information. I shoot a lot of black powder, can reload, and now am learning how to cast bullets and look forward to giving small batch powder production a whirl (when I feel semi-confident I can do it safely). God bless.
I read once that ball milling actually forces the nitre and Sulphur into the pores of the charcoal when it is perfectly incorporated. I am not sure how true that is but it would make sense that a porous fiber would be easier to incorporate into than, lets say, Graphite which has no pores. Along these lines, maybe softwood activated charcoal would have the most pores and thus the best performance
Love your channel, it's interesting to me, even if homemade BP is a bridge too far for me. At least I know how now, thanks to you, if the supply ever dries up and I have no choice.
Can't wait...tried the Cottonelle Ultra ComfortCare and it was fast. Just way too expensive for anything other than a test which this is of course all about.
You could try making charcoal using: - Hemp fiber fabric; - Nettle fiber fabric. I don't know if it's true, but some say that the best black powder carbon should be made from nettle fiber.
We can go further. Different regions have different soil qualities for their trees. The more variables we know about, the more we can measure. This will ultimately optimize our process to make superior quality blackpowder.
Love your channel and content. Not surprised about the outcome because it was a thinner product so less material to be a carbon source. This doesn't pertain to this subject but have you tried some of the newer smokeless powders that manage fouling better in your duplex studies? Was curious about the end results as far as less flash and fouling. I have heard that if you use a drop tube that you get higher velocities and less fouling and smaller groups..... haha
I still think it goes back to lignin. Cottonelle is softer than Scott. The manufacturer has to have softer pulp with shorter fibers to have softer paper, whatever the wood supplied. That means less lignin. Also less anything else that is not carbon. Maybe look for the softest toilet paper possible, whatever brand that is.
some TP is made from mimosa tree or eucalyptus tree . two types of trees that are very fire hazardous and produce a lot of heat when they burn, which also causes them to burn quickly
Jake .I just tried your 77-13-10 formula FFFg made from Mulberry charcoal against my last batch of 75-15-10 +3% Dextrin FFg in my Pietta 1858 Army . Wow what a difference. My volume measure set for 33gr. gave 36.7gr. by weight avg. of 6 rds.with the new batch and 32.8 gr. with the Old formula . The new stuff compresses better in the cylinder leaving enough room for lube the Old barely fits. The real surprise was it's cleaner and much more powerful. I didn't have time to Chronograph them but the Old formula's Smoke and recoil were about the same as some paper cartridges I tried or comparison .The paper cartridges were loaded with 30gr. of FFg Grafs made by GOEX just before the Fire at the Factory. The new formula had less smoke and a much stiffer recoil. I'm going to make more tomorrow .Maybe I'll use up the old batch in my 12 ga. Reloads like I did the first batch I tried. Now what to do with all that Dextrin I made up. Maybe filler in my 12 ga. loads. I tried it to glue paper cartridges with (don't waste your time on that one it's awful).
As a plumber I can assure you that Scott and the Walmart generic of it are far better for aged pipes and less than optimal toilets, cottonelle and charmin are great for plumbers not so great for homeowners. I watched your video because I’m thinking about picking up some black powder weapons, but I like the idea of being able to produce my own powder. Still haven’t seen a reliable method of producing priming compound without the help of ordering materials. Interesting video though, I never thought that charcoal from different sources would matter.
Good muzzle/trigger control at 11:00 , I am trying to get better at shooting flinters myself, I have been doing caplock for some time but I want to become a better shooter and do well with flintlocks.
Potlatch papermill right next to it in Lewiston Idaho Blunt ammo factory or c.f. something both have been bought out in 2012 ish. Too thin is to thin. Can't wait to watch the final process. 🎉😊
Does anyone here see why I say...This is the BEST channel on this subject! And this man answers everyone that he has time for... let's make his subs go to the moon.
My chemical intuition tells me, that the cheapest, greyest toilet paper should work best, as it would be first, with the smallest amount of any additives, pure pulp, but, recycled pulp also means the smaller size of cellulose fibres (as they were broken multiple times, paper always end as toilet paper, as fibres are too short to be used for anything else). This means smaller carbon particles also mean more surface for a reaction when burning. I can be of course wrong, but it makes sense in my head. This also could explain why cottonel works so good.
Have you tried kitchen towel/ toilet paper made from virgin pulp. That is paper made from all new wood no recycled paper. As I understand they use some recycled paper in toilet paper. So it dissolve on its way in the sewerage system. Toilet paper is more hardwood pulp which is short fiber and therefore falls apart when wet. Paper towel Is softwood which is Longer fiber and therefore holds together better. I am not sure what is best for black powder soft or hard wood though. As I never have made any my self. But anyway if you google kitchen towel/ toilet paper virgin pulp you will come up with a lot of options you can order
Well that does it. Scotts is a better TP than a carbon source for rifles. Hahaha Yes, you use longer strips of 1-ply than you do with typical 2-ply, but in my personal experience it lasts longer per roll. JUTE TWINE ROPE or HEMP baler twine (untreated) is my next vote on carbon sources. Keep making the NONSUCK videos! Really enjoying this.
As mentioned before, the temperature that the carbon source is charred at determines the VOC content of the final carbon. It would be interesting to have a thermometer proper (k-type?) stuck in the can during your carbonizing process to gauge the temps it reaches to see if it matches the docs found on the subject.
As a guy in instrumentation - Type K thermocouples are bad for longevity (the first use is usually good but downhill from there particularly in reducing atmospheres). Type N are better for base metal melting temperatures but the best are Type S or R if your pockets are deep enough… When the S & R couples die you can make your girlfriend (and possibly your wife as well) some jewellery…
@@allangibson8494 Yeah, but it's a cost and availability thing. Temps won't get up in the 600c+ range as it would be way too hot for making proper charcoal so we really know it's in the 300-550c range. The question is really where in this range as that determines the VOC. Edit: Remember you need a instrument to read the probe as well, and since N is so new not that many instruments support it making them a lot more expensive.
@@1kreature Type N is a base metal thermocouple developed about thirty years ago for high temperature service. Type K was developed two centuries ago. It is just the default for the technically ignorant. It breaks down in reducing atmospheres and the nickel in it evaporates (as rather toxic nickel carbonyl gas). The NiSil/NichroSil type N avoids that failure mode. Type K is also piezoelectric (bending it changes its output until you anneal it by heating to 354C). So basically Type K is popular crap sold to the uninitiated. Below 800C the best accuracy is delivered by platinum RTD’s (Pt100’s) (but you need special high temperature ceramic cased versions above 400C). (0.1C accuracy vs 5C for thermocouples).
@@allangibson8494 I do not disagree at all. However, here we are making black powder and not really wanting to go into ultraprecision or spend any money on it. Then getting cheap, popular crap is good enough. A TH07 meter can be had for less than $12 including a K-type probe. The aging is not really an issue as it is too small to worry about (5-6F?) and we are simply looking for a 25c-50c step accuracy here. We just need to know where the charcoal is being produced at. Low or higher range of temps for "charcoal burning" as it determines the final VOC content and thus the most important properties of the powder including what byproducts are formed and how complete the burn is. Getting a n-type meter is not too hard and in fact you can get a cheap one for $24 or so, but it comes with 2 K-type probes. A N-type probe alone sets you back another $12 minimum and at that price you may get a dubious quality. K is so established that even the cheapest operators deliver a passable version for rough work like this.
What about paper towel ? Bounty or some other soft paper towel. Also, yes there are different paper pulps maple, recycled cardboard, aspen or poplar . Aspen/ poplar are widely used because of the fat regrowth rate. As i have drove around this country (USA) i have seen many errigated aspen groves.
Georgia pacific owns the scott brand as well as most other brands of paper products found in the USA , take a look at the packaging and the plant it was made at should be in print on the packaging that will give you a better idea of where it is made and from what fiber
What I can suggest: Just try to test chemical filter paper of different types. If so, you can control the carbon source because chemical filter paper types are strictly certified and you can get exact answer what is the main factor to improve the effectiveness.
I purchased a "new" paint can. It unfortunately had some sort of verathane coating inside. I'm trying to "Broil' that coating out. I have a collapsible Coleman® oven coming to use for charring store brand tissue which was the cheapest available. The only clue to the fiber source is "made from domestic and imported materials," I suspect Canada. Rather than propane to heat the oven, I might use a tray of charcoal briquets though I may be able to control the temperature better with propane.
Again, another great video and presentation! Somewhere along the line I would really like to see you do a test on BAMBOO TP. It is rather expensive but a source of a single fiber product. Thanks so much for continuing these awesome experiments on carbon sources!!
I am very interested to see further "research" with just the Cottenelle to try to judge consistency from batch to batch. I wouldn't be surprised if it did jump around as the base material may vary. I don't know how important consistancy is to paper pulp mills is, when it comes to TP. It would be nice to see very little variance, but I stand a bit skeptical. Thanks for sharing all your hard work. It is appreciated.
I recently took out my .32 Pedersoli Kentucky rifle the other day, and I was shocked at how filthy 3F Schutzen was. MUCH dirtier than what I've seen from 3F Goex, and I had heard before that Schutzen was supposed to be cleaner than Goex. That was the first time I'd ever used Schutzen before.
I’m thinking the softer the more the cell structure is broken down and the faster it will burn. But different kinds of wood will also make a difference. Ash wood burns fast and leaves only ashes no unburnt charcoal in my fireplace or wood stove. The btu’s for each variety might also have a bearing on your results.
You brought up a point that got me to thinking. When you mentioned max spreads you said it could be caused by different sized granules. Could one increase velocity by mixing some 4f in with 3f powder. I am still fairly new to this in a way so hopefully I don't get a lot of comments about asking a "dumb" question. Thanks.
My question is what makes the powder "clean"? I've made it from tp, cheap and Cottonelle and some from basswood. I don't have a press. The basswood was very powerful, 90 gr. Weighed seemed like 75 gr. Of blackhorn. 300 gr bullet, no drop at 100yds. All of it is light and filthy.
@Everythingblackpowder thanks for the reply. Not sure I'll be making enough to justify that. It is kind of addicting though. Just picked up a TC .50 so I have something to shoot. Love the videos!
I wish I still worked for the paper company I used to back until 2004, I would get you some of their thin paper that was made with pine pulp because that's the wood we used to make it.
I'm sitting on a glorified shipping container in Kuwait, waiting for a video to start on gunpowder made from toilet paper... oh God have mercy, is this really my life?!??
Yes, and loving every minute of it!
Kuwait, huh? You get around, my friend. I would love to hear the full story.
Bet you can't "Kuwait" to get home!
Life takes us all sorts of places
KNB suuuuucks. Fishing is good though
😂😂😂😂
I work in a paper mill. We primarily produce standard 92 bright, 20lb test printer paper but we also run much thicker or thinner products of varying grades as needed.
The thinner or fluffier you go the more soft wood is required (spruce/pine) to attain the required strength, thicker products like milk carton or construction paper require basically no soft wood and typically use a less refined grade of hardwood (primarily hybrid poplar, birch and maple).
Also, whiteness is no measure of purity. Inert/fire retardant things like calcium carbonate and potash are commonly used to make paper look whiter.
Even cheap brown toilet paper or hand towels are likely a better charcoal source than most other things since it is lightly refined but has no inert fillers/modifiers and it usually has little to no soft wood.
I like the idea of trying hand towels as a charcoal source. It might make some good BP.
Is there a difference in the ash content of brown paper vs bleached paper?😊
oh yeah those restroom towel rolls make fantastic powder!!!
The comment we have bee waiting for
This is starting to look like a self-defence scenario with a musket while stuck in a lavatory and out of powder.
You made some excellent comments I wanted to add my 2 cents' worth:
1. Making charcoal over the hot coals in the wood stove works quite well and is more regulated than you think. The open pit and gas grill are difficult to regulate, gotta watch constantly. I tested my wood stove and with flames present the inside temp can be over 700 F, too hot for bp charcoal. When it is down to glowing coals, the temp is under 550 F and falls gradually, perfect range. I think it's a great way to easily and consistently make charcoal. Summer will be a problem, tho!
2. I also switched to brass balls due to what I discovered when I used lead media. For a year I was using 83 lead balls of 54 caliber but noticed my powder always weighed more after milling and my 54 cal balls were now about 42 cal. 83 balls (223 gr each) would originally weighed 1199 gm but now they weighed 817 gm. Media abrades media and over the year I lost 382 gm (0.842 lbs) of lead. Guess where that lead went. I got some water test strips off Amazon and a batch of my powder milled with the lead balls tested over 500 ppm of lead. So every time you shoot you are enveloping yourself in cloud of tiny lead particles. I would recommend everyone stop using lead media.
That's exactly what I thought was happening when he mentioned the cleanliness of the powder using brass. Lead being quite soft material is going to grind itself away over time.
Thank you for your report.
@@exothermal.sprocket Like will grind like, so any media will wear itself down over time. You have to decide the lesser of evils of what you want shooting out your barrel. Lead is toxic af, ceramic will scour your bore and glass will sensitize your powder to friction. Since we have used jacketed bullets for over a century, I figure brass is the best option: nontoxic, has enough density to mill and won't harm your bore.
@@robertstump4740 Yep makes total sense.
Lead is toxic, mercury a lot more. Hahaha
My fav part of your videos outside of all the useful info is you in the nicest way tell ppl to f*k off kindly by telling them to go make a video at the end. I'm a pyro here and love learning methods to make better BP
Glad to hear it. Thank you
Alright , I’m pulling out all the strings on this one and I’m going to try a batch of tampon charcoal. I’ll have the results on a flow chart when the test is completed this weekend.
I'll read this monthly. Be sure to use rag paper for that flow chart, lol.
Heh
Only make it 3 days after the full moon…unless you want the no lag before bite label.
😂
Pulling out the strings? My vote is literally strings. Jute rope or hemp baler twine (untreated).
Waiting for dry bamboo charcoal BP. The inventors of BP had plenty of it. Just curious!
I just tried a batch with this really light wood that we get at my work. We get these crates in from Hungary and the support boards are like true 2x4’s they actually measure 2x4 and it’s a really light colored wood. I wish I knew what it was cause it makes excellent BP.
@@VladimirTheLeadHead probably birch or teak
@@VladimirTheLeadHead if that's teak stockpile some in a sheltered place. when the time comes to make a new deck you'll be very happy. they made ship decks out of the stuff because of how good it is
@@VladimirTheLeadHead , I am almost convinced it is Paulownia, there are alot of paulownia "forests" in Hungary and western Romania.
They didn't use bamboo charcoal. I actually have several ancient recipes. None of them use it.
If you read the Knight papers on Swiss manufacture, they feel that the creosote at 8% is ideal and contributes to the quality. They essentially place a measured amount of BP in acetone to extract the creosote out of the BP and pour it over absorbent packed glass tube to see it visually. Maybe the Scotts is lacking in many emollients (for skin feel) that the Cottonelle has that turn into a creosote in the finished product when the TP is chard. Thank you again for all your hard work. I just made a batch of charcoal on propane burner and collected a portion of the creosote in the condensed vapor to add it back to the finished product during pressing. If it works then I'll just have to find a way to remove the 10X liquid smoke smell, lol.
On another note. I see a lot of requests for copy paper with contains 20-30% mineral filler or non-combustible ash like in your wood stove. You have proved or disproved stranger things. Maybe the 20-30% ash would create an outcome that no one would expect.
Thank-you for all your efforts!
Those regional variations might be something to consider.
Right now I'm using western red cedar and happy.
Only single pucking and using 65 gr to get 1700 fps, so my economy isn't the best but it is consistent from batch to batch.
Happy to get consistent results at this point.
Keep up the science.
Guy i work with makes his own powder and is using double the volume to get the same velocity vs swiss.....however his shot to shot to shot velocity spread is in single digits as long as he cleans between shots so he's not bothered about the volume used
I am so looking forward to a start to finish process video!
Thanks to you all for the informative videos!👍
Interesting in your review of your technique for making muzzleloading propellent you mentioned purification of the nitrate. I just finished reading the book "Like Fire and Powder" by Grett Gibbons, and he devoted an entire chapter to this process. Seems quite involved, so I haven't tried it as of yet. Will be interesting to hear how you approach this. Looking forward to that full video. Thanks for what you do for the BP community.
Thank you
At a paper mill, the lumber and process wood varied by season. The turpentine would overflow with some wood. Other times the soap was thick! Resins vs pure wood pulp. Our tp and tissues needed various chems and treatment variations to match the raw materials! The note papers and card papers were all effected by seasonal raw wood sources!
I agree! Thinner TP is not good, even if it is cheaper. As far as TP goes for cleanliness, Cottonelle got it right for a couple uses. So, if i heard correctly…you “might” have said, that swiss uses a variation of cottonelle where as goex uses a variation of scotts for charcoal?!?! Thanks for Jake for your awesome videos! I am really looking forward to watching your updated “antique muzzlelaoding propellent process”! Thank you sir!
Thank you
The Cottonelle may vary regionally, since Georgia Pacific or whoever it is that is making it may have more than one paper mill.
Most mills blend the wood that is used as the fiber source, for the best quality paper softwoods are greatly preferred, mills will accept hardwood for pulping but usually in small amounts - in whatever amount their engineers say can be accepted. The finest wood for fiber is fir and spruce, this worked out for them because before the mills were built eastern fir was basically a weed and was not considered to be good for much. Pine is good too and the mills will take however much is brought in.
I grew up in a paper mill town and absorbed (lol) a bit of pulp and paper knowledge, and have worked in mills at times for outside contractors repairing stuff.
Part of the pulping process is to remove all the lignin from the wood, leaving clean cellulose fiber, which is good for making charcoal. Since fir and spruce are already acceptable for making charcoal for bp, and eastern pine is already quite good in fact for that purpose, in hindsight it is not surprising tp can be a good carbon source.
As to why cottonelle is better than Scotts, it may be that the particular mill that is making the rolls you are using is sold a lot of pine, or maybe if it is a West Coast mill one of the West Coast softwoods is particularly good. I live near a mill that makes tp and tissue paper, I don't know if the tp is sold out West or not.
I would have thought that the density of Scott's would have made better charcoal . I am really excited about the next charcoal test coming up . Thanks for another experimentation video that will help others in the future that are interested in this also .
YES ! ...please do a long full method of your latest production,with tips of what works and what does not
Working on it
Oh LAWD! I can hear her now, " Honey, where is all the Cottonell I bought?" Me, "Down range"
😂
I was not disappointed! Brilliant video and presentation, the usual sense of humor and, you're on a roll :) Sticking to the system that makes the findings matter - a flintlock as science equipment! In your early videos you were 90% as good as goex, now you're making crappy toilet paper shoot a tad better and tighter as goex! Your technique refines and that subscribe button chimes and chimes! "As good as Goex" is the benchmark but you're beyond - Really looking forward to seeing the procedure updates
Thank you
A mate of mine manufactures toilet paper and paper hand towels , He told me theres all different blends , blends of Hard and soft woods, Recycled papers, different binders etc depending on if its Government supply paper thats like sandpaper on your arse or the super soft scented 3 ply..... He suggested to me, That washing the TP would help remove binders, perfumes etc etc...
Agreed,bamboo would be very interesting!
Great video Jake. Just made Makers Mark for shoot sunday. The pucks were very dense. I also made Sassafras. Thanks for your info
I’m starting to speculate that the fluffier paper might char more completely. Since softer wood makes better powder. Love your videos 👍
This would hint that processing the paper or whathaveyou yourself somehow could replicate the fluffiness
@@williwonti it might require more work than practical since the thinner paper necessarily has a tighter fiber pattern. If willing to char it in several loose batches it might work. But ain’t nobody got time for that 😉
It appears that you are somewhere in the sw and wondering if you hav ever had to get rid of tumbleweeds they burn fast and so hot you have to back away. Maybe you could try them
I would love to see your methods of quality control so we can replicate better blackpowder with your kind of results.
Looking forward to the updated method video. It is very interesting seeing how different carbon sources perform.
I never considered how much difference the carbon source would make in the quality of black powder. I find your videos very interesting and it makes me want to try making my own powder. I have a lot to learn, haven't made BP since I was a teen and made my own firecrackers. lol Phil
Thanks for the video I've been making powder like your doing and taking your advice so thanks for the lessons I greatly appreciate it 👍👍👍👍👍
The glazing probably helps with the standard deviation of the velocity since it uniforms the grains.
Ok cotonell Is still the best choice as a source of charcoal at least until today, I'm agree to try to make the best BP as good as the best commercially available if not even better but at the same time cheaply enough. As always thanks for your videos!
Thank you
The cottonel is quite the discovery but I think its impressive that you are getting decent results from so many carbon sources
Thank you
Thanks for another great video. I look forward to seeing a video on your current methods of antique muzzle loading propellant.
Thank you
Yes - 120 fps is considerable. This makes scientific sense since energy increases per the square of velocity - which means the last 100 fps you squeeze out of the powder is the 100 fps that contains the most energy, and the faster the bullet or ball flies the more energy will be packed into that 100 fps.
I also use brass media for my tumbler. It is better than lead for sure.😊
Brass is best
Nice video and amazing flinch control.
Once again, GREAT video informative. factual, and reliable.
It is good to see that you can make very reliable black powder from a common source for charcoal. And I was going to rely on my supply of cedar, willow, silver maple, or aspen, but with a ready supply of bum wad, why bother, but not to use the recycled stuff.
Thank you!
Thank you
Thanks for your efforts on this it’s very helpful for those of us without the time and equipment to do this. Keep up the great work!
Thank you
One thing to consider if you should choose to use bamboo. When Thomas Edison was searching for something to use for the filament in his electric light bulb he carbonized bamboo and those light bulbs lasted for many years.
Looking forward to this one!
Im looking forward to the video on how to make the powder. Ive seen your others but a updated one will be nice.
Man I love your videos. I hope you continue putting out black powder content!!!
I proffer brass over lead for the same reason
You make shooting black powder look easy lol. Id be all about it, but my muzzleloader went with my ex, (I took back the KitchenAid mixer and gave it to my mom as a gift). Still I'm interested in making my own powder some day. I'm subbing.
Excellent content as always. I am looking forward to your complete video on making antique muzzleloading propellant. Thanks for putting these videos together.
Well you answered my question about kind of mixing grain sizes. Im going to rescreen my powder. Thank you so much. I have learned so much from you. Now I seem to be sharing this knowledge.
I have been using toilet paper for charcoal for making black powder rockets ever since I seen your last video. Seems to work great. 👍🏼
Thanks for all your Hard work!! and I know you love BP please keep on keeping on!!
It would be interesting to know the consistency between several batches of Contenell purchased at different locations to determine if it’s a one off two thing. But of course all your productions are awesome.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Really enjoying your channel. Appreciate the information. I shoot a lot of black powder, can reload, and now am learning how to cast bullets and look forward to giving small batch powder production a whirl (when I feel semi-confident I can do it safely).
God bless.
I'd love to see a video on your updated method and what you've learned over time. I think your videos are informative and fun to watch!
I read once that ball milling actually forces the nitre and Sulphur into the pores of the charcoal when it is perfectly incorporated. I am not sure how true that is but it would make sense that a porous fiber would be easier to incorporate into than, lets say, Graphite which has no pores.
Along these lines, maybe softwood activated charcoal would have the most pores and thus the best performance
Just charcoaled some Cottonelle. It’s some fluffy stuff!
My test of two ended up 20 grams each
Love your channel, it's interesting to me, even if homemade BP is a bridge too far for me. At least I know how now, thanks to you, if the supply ever dries up and I have no choice.
Thank you
Can't wait...tried the Cottonelle Ultra ComfortCare and it was fast. Just way too expensive for anything other than a test which this is of course all about.
You could try making charcoal using:
- Hemp fiber fabric;
- Nettle fiber fabric.
I don't know if it's true, but some say that the best black powder carbon should be made from nettle fiber.
We can go further.
Different regions have different soil qualities for their trees.
The more variables we know about, the more we can measure. This will ultimately optimize our process to make superior quality blackpowder.
Linen / flax would be really interesting as a carbon source… All of this charcoal experimentation is truly fascinating!
Love your channel and content. Not surprised about the outcome because it was a thinner product so less material to be a carbon source. This doesn't pertain to this subject but have you tried some of the newer smokeless powders that manage fouling better in your duplex studies? Was curious about the end results as far as less flash and fouling. I have heard that if you use a drop tube that you get higher velocities and less fouling and smaller groups..... haha
I am Impressed with that none Flinch!! your still my fav BP Brother! Bitchen right!!
Thank you
Another great video (imo) interesting thoughts on the variables in the paper making process that could affect the toilet paper charcoal quality.
I still think it goes back to lignin. Cottonelle is softer than Scott. The manufacturer has to have softer pulp with shorter fibers to have softer paper, whatever the wood supplied. That means less lignin. Also less anything else that is not carbon.
Maybe look for the softest toilet paper possible, whatever brand that is.
some TP is made from mimosa tree or eucalyptus tree .
two types of trees that are very fire hazardous and produce a lot of heat when they burn, which also causes them to burn quickly
Jake .I just tried your 77-13-10 formula FFFg made from Mulberry charcoal against my last batch of 75-15-10 +3% Dextrin FFg in my Pietta 1858 Army . Wow what a difference. My volume measure set for 33gr. gave 36.7gr. by weight avg. of 6 rds.with the new batch and 32.8 gr. with the Old formula . The new stuff compresses better in the cylinder leaving enough room for lube the Old barely fits. The real surprise was it's cleaner and much more powerful. I didn't have time to Chronograph them but the Old formula's Smoke and recoil were about the same as some paper cartridges I tried or comparison .The paper cartridges were loaded with 30gr. of FFg Grafs made by GOEX just before the Fire at the Factory. The new formula had less smoke and a much stiffer recoil. I'm going to make more tomorrow .Maybe I'll use up the old batch in my 12 ga. Reloads like I did the first batch I tried. Now what to do with all that Dextrin I made up. Maybe filler in my 12 ga. loads. I tried it to glue paper cartridges with (don't waste your time on that one it's awful).
As a plumber I can assure you that Scott and the Walmart generic of it are far better for aged pipes and less than optimal toilets, cottonelle and charmin are great for plumbers not so great for homeowners. I watched your video because I’m thinking about picking up some black powder weapons, but I like the idea of being able to produce my own powder. Still haven’t seen a reliable method of producing priming compound without the help of ordering materials. Interesting video though, I never thought that charcoal from different sources would matter.
Good muzzle/trigger control at 11:00 , I am trying to get better at shooting flinters myself, I have been doing caplock for some time but I want to become a better shooter and do well with flintlocks.
Thank you. It takes practice and I practice often
Potlatch papermill right next to it in Lewiston Idaho Blunt ammo factory or c.f. something both have been bought out in 2012 ish. Too thin is to thin. Can't wait to watch the final process. 🎉😊
I like single grain but ff smoke is fun.
Brilliant vid again sir! Thanks for sharing with us. 👏👏
Thank you
Does anyone here see why I say...This is the BEST channel on this subject! And this man answers everyone that he has time for... let's make his subs go to the moon.
Thank you
Fascinating project! Thank you for your presentation
My chemical intuition tells me, that the cheapest, greyest toilet paper should work best, as it would be first, with the smallest amount of any additives, pure pulp, but, recycled pulp also means the smaller size of cellulose fibres (as they were broken multiple times, paper always end as toilet paper, as fibres are too short to be used for anything else). This means smaller carbon particles also mean more surface for a reaction when burning. I can be of course wrong, but it makes sense in my head.
This also could explain why cottonel works so good.
The outer sheet is NOT a glue strip. It's water or steam sealed to the next layer. Only the cardboard core may have a water base glue.
Aspen charcoal, not processed into roll, makes a good powder. It's best around here, mountains S.W.
Or Cottonwood, very simular.
Just helping out the Algo. Thanks guys!
Have you tried kitchen towel/ toilet paper made from virgin pulp. That is paper made from all new wood no recycled paper. As I understand they use some recycled paper in toilet paper. So it dissolve on its way in the sewerage system. Toilet paper is more hardwood pulp which is short fiber and therefore falls apart when wet. Paper towel Is softwood which is Longer fiber and therefore holds together better. I am not sure what is best for black powder soft or hard wood though. As I never have made any my self. But anyway if you google kitchen towel/ toilet paper virgin pulp you will come up with a lot of options you can order
Well that does it. Scotts is a better TP than a carbon source for rifles. Hahaha
Yes, you use longer strips of 1-ply than you do with typical 2-ply, but in my personal experience it lasts longer per roll.
JUTE TWINE ROPE or HEMP baler twine (untreated) is my next vote on carbon sources. Keep making the NONSUCK videos! Really enjoying this.
As mentioned before, the temperature that the carbon source is charred at determines the VOC content of the final carbon.
It would be interesting to have a thermometer proper (k-type?) stuck in the can during your carbonizing process to gauge the temps it reaches to see if it matches the docs found on the subject.
As a guy in instrumentation - Type K thermocouples are bad for longevity (the first use is usually good but downhill from there particularly in reducing atmospheres).
Type N are better for base metal melting temperatures but the best are Type S or R if your pockets are deep enough…
When the S & R couples die you can make your girlfriend (and possibly your wife as well) some jewellery…
@@allangibson8494 Yeah, but it's a cost and availability thing. Temps won't get up in the 600c+ range as it would be way too hot for making proper charcoal so we really know it's in the 300-550c range. The question is really where in this range as that determines the VOC. Edit: Remember you need a instrument to read the probe as well, and since N is so new not that many instruments support it making them a lot more expensive.
@@1kreature Type N is a base metal thermocouple developed about thirty years ago for high temperature service.
Type K was developed two centuries ago. It is just the default for the technically ignorant. It breaks down in reducing atmospheres and the nickel in it evaporates (as rather toxic nickel carbonyl gas). The NiSil/NichroSil type N avoids that failure mode.
Type K is also piezoelectric (bending it changes its output until you anneal it by heating to 354C).
So basically Type K is popular crap sold to the uninitiated.
Below 800C the best accuracy is delivered by platinum RTD’s (Pt100’s) (but you need special high temperature ceramic cased versions above 400C). (0.1C accuracy vs 5C for thermocouples).
@@allangibson8494 I do not disagree at all. However, here we are making black powder and not really wanting to go into ultraprecision or spend any money on it.
Then getting cheap, popular crap is good enough. A TH07 meter can be had for less than $12 including a K-type probe. The aging is not really an issue as it is too small to worry about (5-6F?) and we are simply looking for a 25c-50c step accuracy here. We just need to know where the charcoal is being produced at. Low or higher range of temps for "charcoal burning" as it determines the final VOC content and thus the most important properties of the powder including what byproducts are formed and how complete the burn is. Getting a n-type meter is not too hard and in fact you can get a cheap one for $24 or so, but it comes with 2 K-type probes. A N-type probe alone sets you back another $12 minimum and at that price you may get a dubious quality. K is so established that even the cheapest operators deliver a passable version for rough work like this.
What about paper towel ? Bounty or some other soft paper towel.
Also, yes there are different paper pulps maple, recycled cardboard, aspen or poplar . Aspen/ poplar are widely used because of the fat regrowth rate. As i have drove around this country (USA) i have seen many errigated aspen groves.
Georgia pacific owns the scott brand as well as most other brands of paper products found in the USA , take a look at the packaging and the plant it was made at should be in print on the packaging that will give you a better idea of where it is made and from what fiber
Try this, for a consistent amount of the paper dilute it with asatone and see that the binder washes out.
I’m pretty sure the glazing process is for uniform burn rate. So fps and accuracy is more consistent.
What I can suggest: Just try to test chemical filter paper of different types. If so, you can control the carbon source because chemical filter paper types are strictly certified and you can get exact answer what is the main factor to improve the effectiveness.
I wonder if there is a binder in the high end paper that leaves behind a salt that affects the composition. Like a perchlorate or something
I purchased a "new" paint can. It unfortunately had some sort of verathane coating inside. I'm trying to "Broil' that coating out. I have a collapsible Coleman® oven coming to use for charring store brand tissue which was the cheapest available. The only clue to the fiber source is "made from domestic and imported materials," I suspect Canada. Rather than propane to heat the oven, I might use a tray of charcoal briquets though I may be able to control the temperature better with propane.
Again, another great video and presentation! Somewhere along the line I would really like to see you do a test on BAMBOO TP. It is rather expensive but a source of a single fiber product. Thanks so much for continuing these awesome experiments on carbon sources!!
You know what, I AM going to make my own darn video,.......but not about black power. You sir are what I consider an expert!
I am very interested to see further "research" with just the Cottenelle to try to judge consistency from batch to batch. I wouldn't be surprised if it did jump around as the base material may vary. I don't know how important consistancy is to paper pulp mills is, when it comes to TP. It would be nice to see very little variance, but I stand a bit skeptical. Thanks for sharing all your hard work. It is appreciated.
Something to think about, paper egg cartons are free and make charcoal also... and the French used 78 12 10 English used 76 14 10 mix...
thank you for doing the Scott toilet paper.
I recently took out my .32 Pedersoli Kentucky rifle the other day, and I was shocked at how filthy 3F Schutzen was. MUCH dirtier than what I've seen from 3F Goex, and I had heard before that Schutzen was supposed to be cleaner than Goex. That was the first time I'd ever used Schutzen before.
Printer paper is definitely worth a try.
I’m thinking the softer the more the cell structure is broken down and the faster it will burn. But different kinds of wood will also make a difference. Ash wood burns fast and leaves only ashes no unburnt charcoal in my fireplace or wood stove. The btu’s for each variety might also have a bearing on your results.
I appreciate that your attitude towards your audience seems to oscillate quickly between very patient and wildly condescending.
I guess they call me belligerent and fractious for a reason
@@Everythingblackpowder ha like Popeye said, “I yam, what I yam!”
You brought up a point that got me to thinking. When you mentioned max spreads you said it could be caused by different sized granules. Could one increase velocity by mixing some 4f in with 3f powder. I am still fairly new to this in a way so hopefully I don't get a lot of comments about asking a "dumb" question. Thanks.
I've learned so much about toilet paper recently.
Scotts is safer for septic tanks. That is the reason its so popular.
My question is what makes the powder "clean"? I've made it from tp, cheap and Cottonelle and some from basswood. I don't have a press. The basswood was very powerful, 90 gr. Weighed seemed like 75 gr. Of blackhorn. 300 gr bullet, no drop at 100yds. All of it is light and filthy.
The biggest thing that made my powder clean was switching to brass media
@Everythingblackpowder thanks for the reply. Not sure I'll be making enough to justify that. It is kind of addicting though. Just picked up a TC .50 so I have something to shoot. Love the videos!
I never considered that there could be a mix of surplus wood in the pulp that made TP, especially cheap TP. Makes sense though.
You have become the ‘go to guys’ for all us old gun nerds. Thanks.
Thank you
I'm really enjoying your series of Toilet Paper reviews.
I'd be interested in seeing different writing paper. From handmade premium stuff, to regular recycled, to the standard cheapest you can find.
I wish I still worked for the paper company I used to back until 2004, I would get you some of their thin paper that was made with pine pulp because that's the wood we used to make it.