DC vs DCC--Which Is Right For You (181)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- Ever since I started writing about DCC back in 1994 I have been regularly asked DC vs DCC, which is right for me? And there are still some situations where DC power is a useful option. However being biased a bit, I strongly recommend DCC for anyone planning to build a model layout where they want to run more than one train at a time. In this video I show you how DC power works for controlling anything from one to three or even more trains at the same time. So come on along and see what you're missing.
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The thing that I was told was that with DC, you are controlling / driving the TRACK; unlike DCC, where you are controlling / driving the locomotive.
I'm glad that you don't/didn't make me feel like an idiot from the get go. I've retired within the last 5 years and I have some experience with model trains but not a ton. I'm starting over in a new single level home with a new N scale layout and TH-cam is filled with people telling me how I can use my jmri, nce, dcc, digitrax systems ... and have my layout going in less than five minutes. Thanks for some basics.
Thanks Larry, I can see just how complicated DC wiring can be, glad I went over to DCC. Keep safe. Enjoy your Spring.
You have just shown me the exact reasons why I changed my operating system from DC to DCC. I had loads of problems with running more than two trains when I used DC!! Over the years, the majority of my locomotives are now using either a Hornby TTS Sound chip or a normal digital chip.
Larry don't forget MRC tech 6.
In the 80's I build quite a few "SWACK" kits . It was from an article in a RR Mag. Kits were available from the group in a California club those name I'm sorry to say I came remember. It was DC You could unplug and walk around with throttles. I changed the plugs to telephone jacks from RCA radio jacks . I had 5 power packs and 5 jacks at all eight control panels. You would use rotary switches on panels for each block and you would plug into the power pack you were assigned for each panel as you walked around. It worked great I loved the throttles 3 buttons forward reverse and emergency stop. Hold down button voltage went up push "rev " button and voltage went down until relay tripped and changed polarity . The only thing I didn't have was sound. Many-a-time I said to myself while trying to install a decoder " all of this for a horn? ".
Good video !!!
My one experience operating on a large DC layout was Sam Powell’s S scale one in Rockville or Gaithersburg MD. At the time my club had CTC16 command control so DC cab control was alien to me and most in the group. Al I can remember is everyone wanting to know “who has my train”? I was happy to get back to the club layout and command control. The Reed brothers had an interesting system with color coded pushbutton switches that matched the color on the walk around throttle. That made it easier to keep track.
I built one from the plan in RMC but I purchased the unpopulated PC board.
I’ve been using DCC for nine years now. I started with a Hornby Western Master digital train set. The King class is now fitted with a Hornby TTS sound chip.
The things you’ve just shown me are the very reasons why I changed from DC to DCC!! Add to that the fact that you can purchase sound locomotives and that you can control two or more locomotives at the time!!
Cost was a big factor with staying DC. But when I decided to go dcc it will be fairly easy to integrate it into my layout.
Yes, converting a big fleet can get expensive. Back about 10 years ago I never anticipated using sound decoders, partly due to the cost and secondarily the issues of fitting large decoders and speakers. However costs have gone down a bit (considering inflation), sounds have improved significantly, decoders have gotten a lot smaller, and sugar cube speakers have made impossible installations possible. Now it sounds odd not to have sound decoders.
Nice job Larry, I appreciate the videos you share with the You-niverse. Totally understand scaling back to once per week. I would rather you scale back than burn yourself out while trying to meet a deadline that DOES NOT EXIST. way more important to share and get the right message out than say something on time. Love the channel, keep posting, and take all the time you need. By the way, I did miss you on Monday!
Right now, I’ve been using DCC for nine years.
I actually started model railroading with a Hornby Western Master digital train set. The King Class locomotive has the Hornby TTS sound chip.
Like many of us lifelong modelers, I have a collection of favorite locomotives that would be very difficult to convert. So, I’m building my layout with some tracks completely separated lines for DC, but blended in to the overall layout. I won’t have to do much if any blocking for DC, but just use a separate power pack for each separate line. Most will be DCC, but the DC operations will run to both some unique stations, such as logging and a mill and also a couple of towns served by DCC lines. But I’m not planning any intersecting tracks to avoid complications and problems. I hope this works out. Seems like it will, but I haven’t heard others mention this "solution."
I know of clubs that have that arrangement successfully. You might want to put in a dead interchange track between the DC and DCC loops so cars can be shunted between them. Just be careful of using lighted passenger cars as they can electrically bridge isolation gaps. Have fun with it.
@@TheDCCGuy Do you know of open forums or anyone on TH-cam who has implemented dead interchange track?
I'm probably using the wrong search words, but trying to find anything about dead interchanges on either the wider internet or here on TH-cam appears to be in the same league as finding hen's teeth.
Thank you.
@@cavanaghcreative_YT I have no idea what a dead interchange track is. Also when you add a comment please start your instead of posting under someone else’s, I had to dig down quite a while to find this one.
@@TheDCCGuy My apologies. Thank you for responding.
I gave this a lot of thought a while ago when I was planning my next build, and I came to the conclusion that DCC is right when, for instsance, you have a yard layout where you want to do complex movements with a small number of trains, and DC is adequate when you have a running line with few switches and simple movements, like a circular multi-line track and a train on each line. But neither really works if you want a 10-platform terminus station, fast and slow up and down lines (4 lines) running into 6 approach lines, 4 platforms occupied, 4 trains on their way in and 4 trains on their way out, lots of double-slips and around 40 colour light signals. I concluded that the only practical answer was to do it as the real railway does: break it into insulated blocks, microchip the blocks (whereas DCC microchips the trains) and get the microchips to detect where the train is in the block (IR detectors), set the signals and control the train speed. The computer would tell the block chips what to do, and also tell other microcontrollers which change the switches what route to set.
This isn't DC, in that it's not voltage controlled. The chips in DCC use PWM (pulse width modulation) to control the current and therefore the speed, and these chips do the same. So it's a bit like DC in that the control is at the track block level, and a bit like DCC in that the control is distributed. I'm still building it, but if it all works . . . . . .
First, I recognized the last layout you showed as one from several Kalmbach layout books. I always liked that one because it is be enough to be interesting, and yet not so big as to require a crew every time it would be operated.
As for DC vs DCC, at this point in time the only reasons for DC are:
Very small, simple layouts;
minimum number of trains running at one time;
having a collection of older engines which would be very difficult, if not impossible to convert to DCC.
As for DCC:
Simplified operating complex and/or large layouts;
ease of running multiple trains at one time;
by using accessory decoders no need for control panels (everything can be controlled by the controller);
better operation of sound equipped locomotives;
ability to speed match dissimilar locomotives to be able to run them together (more on this below).
Speed matching is one of the best features of DCC. By changing the operating characteristics through the CV's I can be different locomotives, whether different brand, type (steam/diesel/electric), and decoders to smoothly run together. For example, a young friend of mine who is a member of our club has a pair of EMD SD70ACe diesels that he wanted to run together. One is from Bachmann with their value-sound SoundTraxx Tsunami decoder, the other is a Walthers Mainline model with the ESU LokSound Essential Sound Unit (E.S.U.) decoder. Out of the boxes these two locomotives could not run together because of the completely different nature of both the decoders and the motors. The Bachmann had a top speed of over 90 scale miles per hour (SMPH) while the Walthers topped out of just over 70 SMPH. Also, they had very different acceleration/deceleration settings. After adjusting the various CV's these two engines now run fine together. There is no way to do this with straight DC locomotives.
Yes, that might be a very old plan. My version of the book is actually the third. I think the first was written by Linn Westcott back in 1959. Then Andy Sperando took over after Linn died and did a version, and then when Andy was terminally ill with cancer MR tasked me with the job of updating it. It changed names each time but some figures carried over with revisions.
Thanks Larry, 🐾🚂 BearCreek RR, KY.
Larry Thanks for all you do 98%of my loco's are DC I'm selecting my fav's to install decoders F7 AB ABBA'S boy the pwred B's is where I try tk fig.a less expensive Constance
Larry, I saw one of your videos where you had a "Command Control" system that predates dcc. Have you done a video on the birth of dcc and the doomed and failed systems the came before dcc. The " VHS / BETA" saga of model railroading. I really enjoyed the video where you talked about Digitrax brilliant early strategy. Thanks, Stingray Steve
Steve I am afraid you and I would be the only viewers. Videos like that, including this one get very few views and I avoid doing them.
Always been DC and will always be DC. DCC offers too many problems and too many headaches. For DC wiring is straight forward and easy to set up blocks. New DCC "stuff" is just too expensive. I hardly ever run two trains at the same time. On my old layout I had two separate mainlines with controllers for each mainline. Cheers from W Rusty Lane K9POW in eastern Tennessee
Good video. Here is a basic question. If I buy a DCC locomotive that might not be available in DC, can I merely remove the DCC decoder thing and does that make the locomotive DC at that time? Thank you.
Yes, but you might disable the lights by doing that unless you can figure out the wiring. In many cases the decoder is actually built onto the circuit board that normally is wired directly to everything from the lights to the motor and a smoke unit in some steam locos. In others the decoder may just plug on and could be replaced by a dummy plug. Be aware that most decoders allow the loco to be operated on a DC powered layout so you don’t really need to remove the decoder, plus you still may get most of the sounds.
Larry, Thank you so much for all the wonderful videos. Very recently back into model trains inspired by your tutorials( Childhood hobby in the 70s ) Where did you get your trusty roller tool? Its hard to tell in the videos but does it say"Hornaby" on the handle? I want one. Thanks, Stingray Steve.
I assume you mean the one I use to press my roadbed and track/turnouts when gluing them? It came from an art supply store but I bet Amazon has them.
also is it possible to have a switch that allows you to change the track one DC controller connects to so you can have one DC controller for multiple tracks
Watch video #333
also tracks will be 50 foot loops around garage.will there be a power issue to tracks being that long?
im currently building my second layout ....im wanting to do multiple trains but not interested in switches ....wanting to use seperate track for each loco..or even 2 trains per track..whats the best set up?i prefer dc because iots cheaper but want to buy a few dcc trains so i can have sound.any advice will help..thanks
is it possible to have a dc and dcc train at the same time with one dc throttle and the dcc controller on the same track
Not on the same track.
I have a suggestion for you when incorporating your computer into the presentation. Make your "Arrow" as large as you can and change the color as a white arrow outlined in black, against a white background is very hard for the viewer to see. Thanks for reading :-)
Yes, I thought I had it set large but for some reason it always seems smaller later.
If I wanted to have the capability to run either DC or DCC on the same layout at different times, do I need to install 4 DPDT switches one on each of my power districts to isolate the DC signal from back feeding into the Digitrax PM42 Quad Power Manager board?
That question has never come up but I would ere on the safe side and do it. Besides you would need a switch for each block just to be able to switch from DCC to DC.
Thanks Larry. I always appreciate your detailed information and taking the time to answer my questions.
Hi Larry. I sent you a question on another video about using something that was compatible with my NCE and my Kato switches. Thought I'd ask you about NCE switch Kats.
Wouldn't this be a viable way to go. In fact I think 1 switch kat can power a double crossover. I'd like to hear what you think about what I've learned. I hope it's the way to go!!
I really respect your knowledge on this matter. It would take a load off my mind since I already have the NCE Power Cab. Thanks again...Mark
That’s an option and Digitrax also makes stationary decoders for Kato Unitrack and there probably are others that I am forgetting right now.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks so much for getting back tome so fast. I really enjoy watching your videos! I'm slowly starting to feel like things are starting to come together.
It's been a little overwhelming having to figure out how everything has to go together. You've given me a good start. It's comforting to know there's someone that really
cares enough to reach out to people that are looking to enjoy the hobby as much as you do!! This one item in my bucket list that I'm looking to complete. Thanks...Mark
how many trains can run on dcc? I wanna run at the same time 40 trains
The limit is different from one DCC system to another a d depends on its internal memory and processor capacity, so check your manuals. Now in theory 40 trains with say 80 or so locos would be possible for some of the top of the line command stations. The biggest issue would be how many amps those locos pulled. Command stations and boosters are now available up to about 8 amps each you could have 2 or 3 of the big ones a day have enough power spread across multiple operating blocks. I suggest you watch my video #112 on power management as well as the associated videos which covers this issue.
Can H0e locomotives be controlled by DCC or are they too small for the decoders and can you get them DCC fitted?
I would expect you could squeeze a mobile only decoder in them but I have never seen one. There are a lot of extremely small decoders available these days. The problem is they would be so light that power pickup might be an issue unless you are very scrupulous about keeping the wheels and track clean and maybe add a little extra weight.
DC is the easiest
$3 in 1897 = $115.08 today
Bro I don’t understand any of this. 😃
I have a 12’X14’ basement layout and I run it on DC with dual cab control. It’s about 20 years old and has had all the bugs ironed out. I run my trains sequentially so two train overlap is not an issue. I have considered DCC, but now that I’m retired the cost to convert would be prohibitive for me. I do sometimes envy the sound guys. I used to operate on a DCC layout and was often frustrated by the short circuit shut downs and all the standing around discussing DCC programming and such.
Anyway, great video, just wanted to let you know that DC works great for me!
Sounds like the ideal situation for a DC layout. And as I showed at the beginning you can run sound decoder equipped locos on a DC layout and still get the sounds, just no real control over them. Although I thunk that BLI offers some type of sound controller that actually can be used with DC power on the track.
I've decided not to use Dc or Dcc, but instead to pull the trains along with clear filament and make train noises verbally. My wife thinks it's silly until I told her how much money I'm saving
I know people that rather do that than accept dcc..
A friend that works for one of the prominent dcc company’s told me when he went to one of the big model railroad shows and he told me better than 50% of people asked for the “jumpers” to run dc instead of dcc. He asked why? They said they just dont understand it and fight it all the way and gave up on it.