It doesn't matter if Kingpin was good or bad guy when it comes to "emasculating". The point is that he has an established character, which won't start grovelling. If he did start grovelling he won't be an interesting villain anymore, would he? No, it just make it boring and stupid - he wouldn't be a formidable villain if he started doing that in Daredevil. And they just did that to just play up diversity cards and reduce-the-white-man agendas.
@bigfellaswalkin3703 Maya both has superpowers AND is someone Wilson loves. She’s both of those things. Appreciate that you’ve at least seen Daredevil tho lol
@bigfellaswalkin3703 okay and that’s fine but do you see how these people are crafting a narrative? I don’t expect you to watch everything that comes out but that’s kinda how they lie to you. Convince you stuff happens that didn’t or misrepresent stuff that did
What we want? We want popular superheroes, anti heroes, villains tv shows, with tighter writing, bigger budgets, and shorter episodes. That's what real MCU fans want. Echo does not meet those requirements 😂
I love this comment because 1) you’re wrong. Millions disagree and most people I talk to say they want budgets to decrease because they’re inflated, and they also generally want longer, more fleshed out episodes (lol daredevil had incredibly long ones too) 2) if you wanted only popular characters you can kiss iron man, Guardians of the Galaxy, ant-man, Spiderverse, and a shitload of others goodbye. What a lame standard 3) you said nothing about the writing quality, the thing I *thought* we cared about above all else
@edgierthanthou tighter writing means better writing. Fans REAL ONE'S wanted something akin to phase 2-3 but in episodic form. A plot for an episode or two, a filler, then an epic 3rd act. This isn't rocket science, but activist hacks can't comprehend what the MAJORITY want.😅💯
@edgierthanthou I'm not sure what you mean? Are you implying I should take the time to get out of bed, open up the LT, and do an essay w/ perfect grammer at 1am?
@phatmantv no I’m not criticizing your grammar. Your grammar is fine and I wouldn’t care even if it wasn’t. I’m criticizing your understanding of writing media. Short scripts =/= good. Daredevil was very long and I get the impression you like that. The length of the script should serve the story, but the idea that all REAL fans only want SHORT SCRIPTS is wild lol.
Its cute to see someone defend the show Echo in so much passion that make me think "are we watching the same show?" but the fact the matter is Echo is a shit show get over it
@@edgierthanthou yeah it's not you like something really deplorable you just like bad Marvel contents and I'm already apathetic about it so it's fine let people like what they like
When you haven't even bothered to read up on the source material of kingpin or how he was originally a Spiderman villain or the fact that Netflix Daredevil gave us the best version of Kingpin ever, this is the sort of nonsensical videos you end up doing. And the worst part is that you've already been ratioed with your 1k views
Dude the quality of the entertainment coming out of disney is horrible. Thats the issue, from the first 3 phases to the 4th and 5th phase..... is terrible.
Uhhh that’s a very spurious claim. A LOT of it sucks, but phase 4 also has some of the MCU’s best stuff: Guardians of the Galaxy 3, half of WandaVision, plenty of Spider-Man. Echo is not some of the best, but it’s nowhere near the worst.
@raysure1345 what? I don’t really like the fight scenes in echo. I guess I liked the roller rink one a bit but not for the choreography Why are you assuming things?
Finally, someone who's defending Echo against these nonsensical criticisms. I'm someone who doesn't like the majority of Marvel movies, but I've surprisingly found a lot of solace in most of the Disney Plus shows as of late. I actually do consider Echo to be a masterpiece based on my own transcendent experience while watching and rewatching it, and I feel that the craftsmanship fully blossomed after Endgame. Supernatural stories centered around intergenerational healing seem to be consistently what I'm drawn to the most these past few years in general. They absolutely nailed it with Undone, Russian Doll, Ms. Marvel, and now Echo.
I’m 38. I learned how to read from comics. My whole life, I’ve been surrounded by these absolute dullards. Like.. none of them understand anything about the medium or storytelling AT ALL. This has always been Wilson Fisk; power and terror and force.. and the weakness inherent to being one man. It’s. The whole. Thing.
It’s infuriating because I seriously don’t even know why they like this character if he’s just generic strongman #556. He’s such an interesting character to engage with because of his inner failings and the ways he tries to morph them into some sort of cogent ideology
@@edgierthanthou seriously. His whole ass deal is being one human man trying to maintain a criminal empire in a world becoming increasingly populated by literal superheroes. What story do they honestly think he’s supposed to tell here?
@@edgierthanthou I know I’m mixing brands, but it’s that “live long enough to see yourself become the villain” shit. They all hear that and think it’s a good take as opposed to the guy who literally ends up becoming a villain showing you exactly where that thinking gets you.
@@edgierthanthou Well then I hope you prove it later down the road and show us that you can walk the walk as well as talk the talk. Because who knows you might find out that there is something that you and Ryan have in common.
Uh, I feel like I’m not the one who needs to prove it. I’ve already gone on people’s streams to debate them. If Ryan wants to chat, he’s welcome to ask. Of course we’d have stuff in common. He’s just bad at analysis.
@@edgierthanthou Unless it was Ryan's stream that doesn't prove anything for I do not care about those others for they are not the one that you called out. So invite him to chat or if he invites you then take it and then we will see where it goes and if you do not then you are all talk and that makes you look bad since you are the one calling him out in the first place. You have to prove yourself to your audience as well as new people coming in for most know who Ryan is and we do not know you(at least I do not). So back up your words and prove yourself to me(a possible sub) or do not.
@davidhacking-bonilla8325 I mean sure. I’m more making the point that people like to imply cowardice when a. Debating isn’t the standard for bravery and b. I’ve already done debates so I can assure you I’m not afraid of them Regardless yes I would talk to Ryan and said yesterday in a live discussion that I would love to
I'm a little stunned I got recommended someone with the same number of viewers as Logan Whitehurst (one of the most emotionally beautiful musicians I know despite his passing), but friend you hit the nail on the f*!@ing head. Like there's a lot of beauty in D'Onofrio's portrayal of kingpin. The fact that they brought back the white wall for echo was absolutely compelling. The man is one who has attained power by the most brutal means, but is incredibly fragile as a result of a life of trauma. It doesn't matter that the trauma defined him and made him a brutal crime lord in the end, it's still trauma, and he still suffers from it
Thanks! I agree that the nuance in his portrayal is legitimately what makes him so special and intriguing. He’s emotionally engaging enough that you feel bad when he fails even though you’re ultimately on Matt’s side. It’s really hard to do both of those things at once.
@michaelmaloy6367 I seriously think that’s an underrated element of this show, that there’s a seriously interesting moral dilemma at play. Matt and Fisk both are unhealthy people and there’s something so refreshing about the fact that the show never even questions that they’re right that a problem exists. Nobody tries to say “Hell’s Kitchen is great just the way it is”. It needs to be fixed AND the solution needs to be radical because the corruption exists at literally every level. Fisk is effective but he ultimately wants corruption in his favor. Matt has better goals but his methods are generally ineffective and held back by the fact that he doesn’t have a clear head.
oooh that's a fantastic take. Despite me being mad that in live action Fisk has switched from a spiderman villain to a daredevil villain, Fisk and Murdoch are kind of perfect mirrors. Not opposites, but reflections. I can't help but be excited for the born again series, especially because of the reshoots rather than in spite of. I have a lot of criticisms of marvel studios, but they genuinely get better with time and experience. I think stan would be proud of the current direction
The rewrites have given me a ton of hope too. The idea that they were going to move forward without Foggy and Karen was genuinely concerning, suggesting that they didn't understand why these characters were important to the story. The fact they listened to criticism was everything. I hope that he would be too, especially on the small-scale side of things.
I thought it was super clear that Kingpin is still a kid. He’s a big baby. And that’s next a diss to his character he hasn’t gotten over his childhood. I mean he still carries the hammer he used as a kid to kill his father. The color white literally represents his childhood. He’s a big baby lol.
Thus might be the dumbest comment i’ve ever read on this website. That’s literally what every show reviewer does dummy. They watch content from people more successful than them, then review it.
I loved the part where a noname youtuber with 1k subscribers creates a "reposnse" video to an established youtuber with 300k subscribers on his personal channel and pretends he doesn't know how the established youtuber's last name is pronounced. Clickbaity, scummy, pathetic. No wonder you liked Echo, I assume you also have liked the "influencer" reaction video where they praise Echo for ASL use during the fight scenes.
Well this is to be expected because Daredevil was a great series and it's now being torn to shreds to sell Echo a character no one cares about except a CEO who's getting it on with the actress
I just became your 1000th subscriber! Great video, you captured my sentiments about those "anti-woke" creators perfectly. Echo is a solid show and I enjoyed the portrayal of Kingpin immensely.
I can't stand Ryan Kinnel. At least Jeremy has the sliver of self-awareness that his content could be written by a Bot and its just a grift for money. I get the feeling from Ryan that he actually thinks he is doing something important and worthwhile.
It doesn't matter if Kingpin was good or bad guy when it comes to "emasculating". The point is that he has an established character, which won't start grovelling. If he did start grovelling he won't be an interesting villain anymore, would he? No, it just make it boring and stupid - he wouldn't be a formidable villain if he started doing that in Daredevil. And they just did that to just play up diversity cards and reduce-the-white-man agendas.
He grovels before Madame Gao and basically Vanessa in Season 1
madam gao is a superpowered crazy asian grandma, and vanessa is the love of his life. idk if thats enough of a difference@@edgierthanthou
@bigfellaswalkin3703 Maya both has superpowers AND is someone Wilson loves. She’s both of those things.
Appreciate that you’ve at least seen Daredevil tho lol
I will admit I did not watch echo though LMAO@@edgierthanthou
@bigfellaswalkin3703 okay and that’s fine but do you see how these people are crafting a narrative? I don’t expect you to watch everything that comes out but that’s kinda how they lie to you. Convince you stuff happens that didn’t or misrepresent stuff that did
TLDR, Disingenuous soyboy plays disingenuous defence for woke media
Daredevil is woke media?
What we want? We want popular superheroes, anti heroes, villains tv shows, with tighter writing, bigger budgets, and shorter episodes. That's what real MCU fans want. Echo does not meet those requirements 😂
I love this comment because 1) you’re wrong. Millions disagree and most people I talk to say they want budgets to decrease because they’re inflated, and they also generally want longer, more fleshed out episodes (lol daredevil had incredibly long ones too)
2) if you wanted only popular characters you can kiss iron man, Guardians of the Galaxy, ant-man, Spiderverse, and a shitload of others goodbye. What a lame standard
3) you said nothing about the writing quality, the thing I *thought* we cared about above all else
@edgierthanthou tighter writing means better writing. Fans REAL ONE'S wanted something akin to phase 2-3 but in episodic form. A plot for an episode or two, a filler, then an epic 3rd act. This isn't rocket science, but activist hacks can't comprehend what the MAJORITY want.😅💯
@phatmantv bro is this TH-cam comment your first time writing anything?
@edgierthanthou I'm not sure what you mean? Are you implying I should take the time to get out of bed, open up the LT, and do an essay w/ perfect grammer at 1am?
@phatmantv no I’m not criticizing your grammar. Your grammar is fine and I wouldn’t care even if it wasn’t.
I’m criticizing your understanding of writing media. Short scripts =/= good. Daredevil was very long and I get the impression you like that. The length of the script should serve the story, but the idea that all REAL fans only want SHORT SCRIPTS is wild lol.
Its cute to see someone defend the show Echo in so much passion that make me think "are we watching the same show?" but the fact the matter is Echo is a shit show get over it
1) nobody has justified this
2) I gave it a 7/10
@@edgierthanthou sure sure, hey this is the internet it's okay to like something other people didn't like
@rifamulya2185 surprising response but I suppose I agree
@@edgierthanthou yeah it's not you like something really deplorable you just like bad Marvel contents and I'm already apathetic about it so it's fine let people like what they like
When you haven't even bothered to read up on the source material of kingpin or how he was originally a Spiderman villain or the fact that Netflix Daredevil gave us the best version of Kingpin ever, this is the sort of nonsensical videos you end up doing. And the worst part is that you've already been ratioed with your 1k views
Dude you didn’t even watch the video. Stop lying
Dude the quality of the entertainment coming out of disney is horrible. Thats the issue, from the first 3 phases to the 4th and 5th phase..... is terrible.
Uhhh that’s a very spurious claim. A LOT of it sucks, but phase 4 also has some of the MCU’s best stuff: Guardians of the Galaxy 3, half of WandaVision, plenty of Spider-Man.
Echo is not some of the best, but it’s nowhere near the worst.
It was trash. Get over it
I love how none of you can justify this
@@edgierthanthou you probably think She Hulk is good also
Hahahaaa
@raysure1345 still can’t justify it lol. Stay mad.
@@edgierthanthou you are just mad that you don’t know what a good fight scene is
@raysure1345 what? I don’t really like the fight scenes in echo.
I guess I liked the roller rink one a bit but not for the choreography
Why are you assuming things?
Finally, someone who's defending Echo against these nonsensical criticisms. I'm someone who doesn't like the majority of Marvel movies, but I've surprisingly found a lot of solace in most of the Disney Plus shows as of late. I actually do consider Echo to be a masterpiece based on my own transcendent experience while watching and rewatching it, and I feel that the craftsmanship fully blossomed after Endgame. Supernatural stories centered around intergenerational healing seem to be consistently what I'm drawn to the most these past few years in general. They absolutely nailed it with Undone, Russian Doll, Ms. Marvel, and now Echo.
I’m 38. I learned how to read from comics. My whole life, I’ve been surrounded by these absolute dullards. Like.. none of them understand anything about the medium or storytelling AT ALL. This has always been Wilson Fisk; power and terror and force.. and the weakness inherent to being one man. It’s. The whole. Thing.
It’s infuriating because I seriously don’t even know why they like this character if he’s just generic strongman #556.
He’s such an interesting character to engage with because of his inner failings and the ways he tries to morph them into some sort of cogent ideology
@@edgierthanthou seriously. His whole ass deal is being one human man trying to maintain a criminal empire in a world becoming increasingly populated by literal superheroes. What story do they honestly think he’s supposed to tell here?
@caseymckenna7111 he may be a surrogate father figure for some of these folks if I’m honest
@@edgierthanthou I know I’m mixing brands, but it’s that “live long enough to see yourself become the villain” shit. They all hear that and think it’s a good take as opposed to the guy who literally ends up becoming a villain showing you exactly where that thinking gets you.
I would love to see you and Ryan have a debate unless you would rather sit behind your 1K subs and let them do your fighting for ya.
I wouldn’t “debate” Ryan but I’d 100% talk to him and raise disagreements
@@edgierthanthou Well then I hope you prove it later down the road and show us that you can walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
Because who knows you might find out that there is something that you and Ryan have in common.
Uh, I feel like I’m not the one who needs to prove it. I’ve already gone on people’s streams to debate them. If Ryan wants to chat, he’s welcome to ask.
Of course we’d have stuff in common. He’s just bad at analysis.
@@edgierthanthou Unless it was Ryan's stream that doesn't prove anything for I do not care about those others for they are not the one that you called out.
So invite him to chat or if he invites you then take it and then we will see where it goes and if you do not then you are all talk and that makes you look bad since you are the one calling him out in the first place.
You have to prove yourself to your audience as well as new people coming in for most know who Ryan is and we do not know you(at least I do not).
So back up your words and prove yourself to me(a possible sub) or do not.
@davidhacking-bonilla8325 I mean sure. I’m more making the point that people like to imply cowardice when a. Debating isn’t the standard for bravery and b. I’ve already done debates so I can assure you I’m not afraid of them
Regardless yes I would talk to Ryan and said yesterday in a live discussion that I would love to
I'm a little stunned I got recommended someone with the same number of viewers as Logan Whitehurst (one of the most emotionally beautiful musicians I know despite his passing), but friend you hit the nail on the f*!@ing head. Like there's a lot of beauty in D'Onofrio's portrayal of kingpin. The fact that they brought back the white wall for echo was absolutely compelling. The man is one who has attained power by the most brutal means, but is incredibly fragile as a result of a life of trauma. It doesn't matter that the trauma defined him and made him a brutal crime lord in the end, it's still trauma, and he still suffers from it
Thanks!
I agree that the nuance in his portrayal is legitimately what makes him so special and intriguing. He’s emotionally engaging enough that you feel bad when he fails even though you’re ultimately on Matt’s side. It’s really hard to do both of those things at once.
Yes
@michaelmaloy6367 I seriously think that’s an underrated element of this show, that there’s a seriously interesting moral dilemma at play. Matt and Fisk both are unhealthy people and there’s something so refreshing about the fact that the show never even questions that they’re right that a problem exists. Nobody tries to say “Hell’s Kitchen is great just the way it is”. It needs to be fixed AND the solution needs to be radical because the corruption exists at literally every level.
Fisk is effective but he ultimately wants corruption in his favor.
Matt has better goals but his methods are generally ineffective and held back by the fact that he doesn’t have a clear head.
oooh that's a fantastic take. Despite me being mad that in live action Fisk has switched from a spiderman villain to a daredevil villain, Fisk and Murdoch are kind of perfect mirrors. Not opposites, but reflections.
I can't help but be excited for the born again series, especially because of the reshoots rather than in spite of. I have a lot of criticisms of marvel studios, but they genuinely get better with time and experience. I think stan would be proud of the current direction
The rewrites have given me a ton of hope too. The idea that they were going to move forward without Foggy and Karen was genuinely concerning, suggesting that they didn't understand why these characters were important to the story. The fact they listened to criticism was everything.
I hope that he would be too, especially on the small-scale side of things.
Hello you make good points. People watch shows with different likes in them.
I thought it was super clear that Kingpin is still a kid. He’s a big baby. And that’s next a diss to his character he hasn’t gotten over his childhood. I mean he still carries the hammer he used as a kid to kill his father. The color white literally represents his childhood. He’s a big baby lol.
Yeah he’s certainly not a masculine ideal. He has strong feelings and trauma but no clue how to maturely express them.
KEK. Try creating content without invoking the names of more successful content creators. Not even watching your nonsense.
I think you meant to post this on Ryan’s channel
Thus might be the dumbest comment i’ve ever read on this website. That’s literally what every show reviewer does dummy. They watch content from people more successful than them, then review it.
Thanks for this video. I now know a video reviewer to avoid Anyone who starts a review with a blanket anti diversity statement is not worth my time
You mean “there’s a woman in this show” isn’t the kind of deep critique you’re looking for??????
No dude this guy is full of poop. He’s a woke zealot , the show is trash
Look at you arguing with every single comment. I'm sorry you grew up without a father and it shows, but be a little bit better than this.
Oml
I loved the part where a noname youtuber with 1k subscribers creates a "reposnse" video to an established youtuber with 300k subscribers on his personal channel and pretends he doesn't know how the established youtuber's last name is pronounced. Clickbaity, scummy, pathetic. No wonder you liked Echo, I assume you also have liked the "influencer" reaction video where they praise Echo for ASL use during the fight scenes.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m not familiar with every established TH-camr’s name pronunciation. He doesn’t exactly say it often.
@@edgierthanthou You literally just admitted seeing him say his own name. Disgraceful.
No?? Are you for real?
I’ve listened to his content and never heard him say his name, ergo he doesn’t say it often.
I loved the part where you attacked the creator instead of the points they were making. It’s almost like you have no arguments against him.
@@MixOnSight oh really? You call this an attack? Did I attack him by calling out slimy tactics he uses? Haha
Really enjoyed the video, I hope this gets to more audience
Waste of 15 minutes and worth 4 seconds... a kid wants to grow by relying on others' content, good luck! (& good luck attacking on every comment)
Hey a Ryan Kinel fan pretending to care about “relying on others’ content”!
who the hell is Ryan Kinel?@@edgierthanthou
@@ansarzaman5875 you clicked on a video correctly debunking Ryan Kinel without even knowing who he is?
Well this is to be expected because Daredevil was a great series and it's now being torn to shreds to sell Echo a character no one cares about except a CEO who's getting it on with the actress
Lol what nothing about daredevil was harmed by echo
slander
@notjfkjr me? Lol
@@edgierthanthouthey are using daredevil to shine spotlights to other characters. And the writers and stunts are not what Daredevil used to be
@raysure1345 the writing is not as good. This I agree on. However, it’s not harmful to the original story AND it doesn’t take away from it.
Do mention your pronouns. Let me guess "they/them"? 😄
Some observations. Echo shot Fisk in the comic books.
Fisk ended the echo show to embrace his toxic masculinity so they should be happy
We've passed the time in which we pretend to care about comic accuracy. Now it's all about the "girlboss"
I just became your 1000th subscriber! Great video, you captured my sentiments about those "anti-woke" creators perfectly. Echo is a solid show and I enjoyed the portrayal of Kingpin immensely.
Thanks! I appreciate you being here!
I hope that they can keep up this energy and refine it some more for Born Again
I can't stand Ryan Kinnel. At least Jeremy has the sliver of self-awareness that his content could be written by a Bot and its just a grift for money. I get the feeling from Ryan that he actually thinks he is doing something important and worthwhile.
Lol he does come across more emotional for sure