Why Do We Love The Griffin IIC?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Today, we take a look at the history and specs behind the Griffin IIC.
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Some imagery from Pixabay
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Just remember as a Griffin pilot to always keep your left side to the enemy; that's supposed to be the bullet sponge side!
So the Wolverine IIC, I mean the er, um, Conjurer next?
Not next but soon.
@@MechanicalFrog I was wondering, in Mechwarrior 4: Mercenaries they got the Conjurer but as the Hellcat (Hellhound II) but named as the Hellhound (the first). Any chance that the Conjurer video will also be the Hellcat video?
So ... don't turn the other cheek
Clan streaks have a decent range: 4 8 12 instead of 3 6 9. They give the 2c2 a nice "medium" range punch. And you can really go for those 12-hex shots, since a miss costs you zero heat and zero ammo.
Yep. The C-Streaks are great for that. Go for the gold, hit on 12s!
Nice!
Just so long as they're the SRM streaks..... say.... would Streak ATM's be a good idea for new tech in the Ilklan era?
210 meters is a perfect jump distance, it gives you a very good to-hit bonus to make you absurdly evasive.
This was pointed out as a flaw in a something recently, whatever something only had 6 jump
@@tomarmadiyer2698 It's fine if it's 6/9/6 movement but if you have jump jets and can mount 7 but don't then it's a bad decision, since you wouldn't need to install a bigger engine for it.
@@scytheseven9173 you could go 6/9/7 with improved jjs
@@Spartaner251 but at that point it's better to go 5/8/7
Really love the "bargain bin" Clan 2C mechs. Very well designed and avoid the hubris of trying to do too much. Inexpensive, mobile, well armored for weight, and have respectable firepower at all ranges.
"They're just neat." - me.
I loved the og Griffin, a kinda well armored jumping mech with a ppc and lrm 10 was super useful in the early game and could get lethal as a sniper with some pretty cheap modifications. I had one pilot with 60 kills in just 30ish missions acting as a sniper, jumping up on hills or buildings for height advantage and pummeling enemies with ppc and later erppc. You can't sleep on that pierce/crit seeker combo!
the Griffin always had a place in most of my lances especially in Marik or Davion lances
The Griffin IIC is so charming, it rules. I think the standard Griffin’s bias for the right side only works in the niche scenario where you’re good at torso-twisting in the mechwarrior titles
Just seems a bit silly to me.
@@MechanicalFrog I agree, I’m reaching to find something nice to say about the placement lol
Even in Mechwarrior, you won't always be able to twist away, and designs with known weaknesses like that tend to get bullied by experienced players.
There are a few mechs you can exploit that behaviour, but it's usually a really bad idea to load most of your firepower on one side.
(I created a Catapult build for my friend in MWO that mounts Rocket Launchers in the pods and LB-10/Xs in the side torsos that baits people into trying to pop the boxes for ammo detonation, only to get brawled down. Called it the "Periphery-a-pult" because it mounted shotguns and fireworks.)
My favourite Griffin is still the Royal 2N version with an ERPPC, 2 SRM6, ECM and DHS.
The Royals sure are something.
Just wish they would make a miniature of it. IWM dropped the ball when they made the new metal sculpt. I think they could have added a 2 srm 6 to make the 2N
Some day... @@boneshaman8912
@@boneshaman8912 I'll look into sculpting this mech and get back with you when I have finished it.
What a sweet mech!
I’m just happy to have a Griffin that isn’t helpless within 3 hexes. The original cold be terrorized by a damn Locust.
Truth.txt
If you heard about the Griffin iiC V's ER large laser being in the head and the question of "why?" and before MechFrog finished giving the answer your brain went "laser in head-face laser-cyclops-xmen" and then immediately started playing the guitar rift from the 90s cartoon show...you had a good childhood 😁
Zap...
You really had fun with the narration for this video. I was not prepared to be grabbed in my sleeping bag and thrown against a tree.
I shouldn't re-watch Friday the 13th before writing scripts...
The olny mech not to receive this treatment because it was already perfect was the awesome
Awesome IIC would just be the Warhawk anyway.
I have my eye on the Griffin IIC VII. This mech seems to fit my play style perfectly.
Could be fun.
My beloved Nova Cats made a great Mach there.
Between the Griffin IIC and the Jenner IIC, the Nova Cats are in danger of being useful.
I think enough has been said about the Griffin 1N that I don't have much to add, except that the look has become incredibly iconic. I think all it really needs to do to make it more viable is to shuffle it's loadout in a way that it has a CT weapon and then it's golden. Which is something the IIC version does to great effect.
I really have to applaud the Clans on the Griffin IIC design. It takes the original and shores up it's weakness and gives it more firepower and speed, all while being fifteen tons lighter! And while it does loose some armor, it's still very well armored for it's tonnage. I also feel that all it's variants are at least ok, though I do feel the ones that keep the focus on the missiles are better.
Defiantly going to include this in my lineup next time I play clan casually.
Aff. Happy hunting!
I can forgive the flaws of the classic griffin given how early in the lore and in IRL it was designed
Fair.
The large laser in the CT is always a solid design choice. It's how I always modify my Zeus. As long as I have two legs and a midsection, I am a concern.
'Tis but a flesh wound...
Call the normal griffin mid again, I dare you lol. The trick to the weapons placement on the basic is to realize you have an entire mechs worth of shield on the other side that you can soak with. Twist away from foes and absorb punishment while trying to get into good positions to fire/physical attack. The griffins probably spookies in citytech fighting lighter mechs. It can jump with some of the best (and lightest) and will beat them into a bloody pulp if they dare to get too close.
I was about to point out this fact as well, though the technique works much better in the video games where you can fire and then twist.
It also sometimes results in substantially higher repair bills in campaign when the left arm goes bye bye.
@@imasspeons I'd argue it works better in tabletop myself, a human with point and click accuracy a can hit sliver sized shots with practice. The to hit charts in tabletop make the chance borderline impossible if you angle them about just right.
Though, I've spent most of my time playing BTMuxs back in the day. God I miss them lol.
@@fenny1578 this is a fair point.
That doesn't work in TT
@@justincase9282 It sure as heck used to, but I may be losing it in my old age. It's been a very long time indeed since I played normal TT. Megamek & Btmuxs are what I played almost exclusively since 2005.
Might be a good idea to make a "Frog" version of the Griffin IIC.
Easy.
Large Pulse Laser - RA
ATM-3 LT (3 tons of ammo in same torso)
Perfect fit.
ANOTHER WINNER, Frog! I've always felt it was a good idea to keep one or more of your primary weapons with "repeat" capabilities in your torso (Preferably center). Having a good laser in a place that will be with you to the end just made sense to me. Something that's confused me are the weights. NOTE: I understand it's a SCI-FI/FANTASY GAME - I get it... Anyway, these mechs are MASSIVELY HUGE war machines, several stories tall, thundering across the battlefield! 55 tons for the early Griffin??? All other mechs along the same lines of scale-to-weight ratios...? The modern M1A2 Abrams battle tank is 69.54 tons! It just feels to me like maybe they should amp-up the weight listings for real perspective... A nit-pick to be sure but, it still slaps me in the face every time. Also, I still feel that jump jets should be for light mech use only. Seeing a medium to heavy mech being hurled into the air from a standing position with no wings for lift is still cringe-inducing to me. Mechs are a bit HEAVY for that, aren't they? I agree, it's kinda' silly to say that for a universe where faster-than-light space travel is a common thing. Screw-it! It's a game; have fun!
I've rationalized the weight by suspending my disbelief concerning how metals are used in the future. ie: Magical future space technology.
@@MechanicalFrog Works for me!
One of the better looking IIC’s, probably my favorite. Idk what it is, it’s sleek yet boxy at the same time, and 4 LRM5’s is just… man it’s beautiful.
It's a good mix of form and function.
2:06 don't hold back, tell us how you really feel ☺.
Hah!
The Griffin IIC, or "What if the Whitworth slapped actually?"
Good times had by all.
What do you mean how I fire the small ER-Laser? Have you seen how many pigeons there are on a normal battlefield? And crows? And vultures? How do you keep them from shitting on your mech? What do you think the Small Laser is for? I'd prefer an impulslaser though... Maybe remove an LRM 5 for one.
O_o
ER Pulse is enticing, but Streak LRM is a turnoff.
Give a little, take a little, I suppose.
Of all the Force Packs coming up in the Mercenaries KS, the Clan Cavalry Star is the box I'm most looking forward to - and this is one of the reasons. Leave it to the Clans to make the Shadow Hawk actually useful, and the Griffin more than a middling sniper.
I am looking forward to two of each of those Kickstarter clan boxes.
Clan Cavalry Star may be what pushes me across the line to actually collect Clans, it's pure gold
The Griffin's layout actually makes alot of sense, as it's entire left side is ablative armour, with it's weapons, and explodey ammo, in the right... Keep the left facing the enemy, and it's less likely the important bits, and most of all the explodey bits, go boom...
1:20 Preach it! The Griffin's Achilles's Heel has been that right side torso, and why I try not to run any variant of the mech that has that lopsided hardpoint positioning. Beyond that, the other variants are really solid mechs, though for Mechwarrior friendly modifications I still prefer the Shadow Hawk and Hunchback family.
The IIC Griffin is basically what a successful Assassin would look like, it was built by people with actual skill (even if they are crazy space furries) instead of the cynical machinations of the Star League's military industrial complex. (by Blake is the stock Assassin dreadful)
I'm largely in agreement that the Prime and Variant 2 are the best with Variant 7 being not far behind. IMO, most variants of the Griffin IIC would benefit immensely from replacing the head-mounted Small Laser with a Clan TAG (or Light TAG) to help the missiles out and be a team player at the same time.
Again: ATMs on the lighter end of things is bad because of ammo longevity. SRMs and LRMs? Great ammo per ton. ATMs? Keep it away from anything under 50 tons, please. Not all New Clantech is strictly better. (at least they didn't try to cram a HAG onto any of the builds)
Griffin IIC as what the Assassin wishes it could be... going to ponder that one.
The Hunchback has pretty much the same weakness - sure, it's got a pair of arm-mounted medium lasers, but if you take out that RT, no matter what variant, you're left with a sole medium laser to fight with (since the RA is gone with the torso)
To an extent, that's true, since the Hunchback has the 1 primary weapon. For the Griffin, it technically has two, so there's really no excuse to not split the risk.@@HeadHunterSix
@@HeadHunterSix That is a fair point for most Hunchback models, though the MW5 and MWO have fits that double the arm energy hard points. (4SP and the 4N)
Those tend to fare better in the late Succession War and early Clan Invasion eras.
5:29 😂
;) Have to give the viewers time to digest.
This is one of my go-to 'mechs in tabletop, and it has nothing to do with the loadout. The Project Phoenix redesign of this machine is just freakin' awesome to look at! I like to pair a Griffin IIC-4 with a Phoenix Hawk and romp around the flanks. I love this series, btw. Just found it a couple of days ago. Looking forward to upcoming installments. I would love to hear your take on the Wasp and the Phoenix Hawk!
I think it is a good mech that has largely flown under the radar.
I'd have liked it a little heavier, but it does the initial job well.
The only chance I would have made on the initial design was placing the ERLL into the head.that way a random TAC won't kill it early.
agreed.
The thing I love about video games like MechWarrior Online is it gives you a real-time feel for how a Mech would perform. One-sided mechs like the Griff, Hunchie and Centurion allow you to sacrifice one side in order to protect all of your weapons on the other. It isn't always ideal, but sometimes you'll see a good pilot out there with all of his weapons active while the other side is red hot from taking hits.
I do get that as a strategy, but it feels like a solution concealing a problem.
I like it for my Hell's Horses force. Just the right mix of speed, style and poverty. It's the El Camino of mechs.
Hah. I love that comparison.
The Griffin is the best mech
-mech boomers
I didn't mind the original because it was a fairly weighty chonk at 55t and it had more varieties than you'd ever know what to do with. So a do-over at 40t didn't make much sense, even with clan tech you do tend to stretch armour further along with better weapons overall. But its not something you can really put side by side easily despite still being a Medium. In saying that, they're a good fast responder which you want in a generic medium battlefeld role and it handles most forms of cavalry-skirmishing pretty well, then continue doing that for a long time. Or until such time they get sick of your shit and blow your legs off.
For 55 tons, I want more.
Never understood Heavy lasers. They do not make sense.
There are just better lasers out there...
There are several viable options in this chassis, and the mech is a personal favorite.
It's a fun one.
Centurion pilots used to shield arming might like that 25'er
Meh.
Centurion pilots used to shield arming wouldn't want a Griffin, because for five more tons it's still weaker than a Centurion in every possible important way.
top video mate
bloody well done
Thanks a lot!
I have a theory that is a IIC variant for every SLDF/Hegemony battlemech, just that they exist in different numbers and different stages of development. There could easily be a Charger IIC, just that it only exists as some schematics in a database somewhere.
There are quite a few IICs...
@@MechanicalFrog Some would seem redundant like Catapult IIC, or the Assassin IIC. Then again the Clans did redesign the Matar into the Stone Rhino just to prove they could. I would not be surprised if some technicians saw the Blackjack Omni-mech and created the Blackjack IIC just to one-up the Spheroids.
I love the IIC mechs. I am currently setting up a combined Arms Cluster for my Clan seafox, with a Binary of second line mechs, a Binary of frontline/omnimechs and a Binary of elementare and vehicles.
The also make for great Additions to my mercenary Group for the ilclan era, now that you can justify them as battlefield salvage, domestic bild or purchase from Clan seafox. My Mercenary commander is enjoying his marauder IIC X, the falcon he took it from had no more use for it.
Absolutely!
Quality work and a quality mech.
It's a good one. Thanks!
I should take a closer look at the 2C machines. Haven't given them.much thought to this point.
They're quite fun.
2c mechs are just fantastic. I love the pheonix hawk 2c. Can't wait to here your opinion of it.
You will find out tomorrow!
griffon 2c can work it just takes clever angleing and torso twisting to ensure 3/4 of the enemy can olny hit the empty side thus giving you a shield.
Ok but that feels like compensating for a flaw that shouldn't exist.
ER Smol Laser is because that flameable grass needs to go and add more rolls to the table :D
pew pew pew...
The idea, I think, is to try to use your left side as a shield. On TT, you can park your mech somewhere with your LS facing the enemy twist torso to fire weapons with other PC games it's more of a keep that side the facing the enemy waiting to get hit twist fire and return.
Fair but still annoying to me.
@MechanicalFrog agree. If the dice gods are mad at you, they can still hit your RT and knock out all your weapons. If your opponent is faster or more careful, they can wait till you face them and alpha at the big missile box on your shoulder. I can definitely see your point. Then all you can do is punch or, in the case of MWO, become a meat shield.
The Griffin IIC is definitely an improvement on the original, and i really like the base version of it as the Clan ER Large Laser has more range and same damage output of an IS PPC.
From the variants, i find the MG version interesting for some infantry hunting, but wouldn´t pilot one myself, i´m not cruel enough for such a machine.
Some people just enjoy mowing down infantry more than others... ce la vie...
@@MechanicalFrog True words XD Celery!
Would love you to eventually cover the ZOIDS battlemechs like Antlion, Jaguar, Thunder Fox, or Trebaruna. I really adore all the more oddball designs and whish theyd get newer itterations or such maybe one day...
Hmm... a bit outside my wheelhouse.
@@MechanicalFrog thats understandable most of the oddball designs seem to have very little coverage which i find unfortunate seeings as i feel battletech has a lot of variety hats not seen that could attract a larger player base, always feelin like theres some untapped potential at least, stuff like the lich and Malak really helped push me towards trying the game out and ofc the Zoids heheh
Another IIC I jumped the gun on , haven't regretted it . Nice mech
. And the IronWind II C 4s I bought scale ok
I just saw the IW sculpt and it's pretty good.
Lighter, and STILL more powerful. Damn Clanners! *XD*
For a mech with that ability to move around the battlefield from jump hop to jump, he would certainly have had a clan large pulse laser put on his central torso.
In the central torso to maximize the survival of said weapon and total from the moment you jump you choose the face, there is no major problem in that it is in said central torso. In addition to the punch at any distance and its extra aim to correct even part of the problem of jumping, the fists are left free in case some surprise attacks can be made against the posterior torsos. Which is always an interesting option if you're facing a heavier mech.
With the Griffin 2C my biggest regret is that they had not left it in the standard tonnage, it could have been really fun.
But who am I to discuss the decisions of a clan that sometimes has visions about the future like the Nova Cat clan?
It is rather surprising that there isn't a single variant with an LPL.
ER Small laser supremacy \o/
pew pew pew
Yup the first and second are good. But, i prefer the look of the redesighed armour model... feels more Griffin.
They each have their charm.
If they had put both weapons on that side and built a mech sized riot shield (think the zaku in gundam) this would be forgiveable. But a lopsided mech is a dead mech
Was that a Jason X reference at 9:20?!? A frog of culture
Unfortunately for you, my Griffin IIC ISM relies upon Heavy Laser technology. Based upon the Griffin IIC 9 but not built by the Dracs or the Nova Cats (since the variant debuts in 3150 that kinda negates the cats), it mounts 4 Improved Heavy Medium Lasers (1 to each arm and side torso location), with a head-mounted ER Large Laser providing its sole long-range punch. The reason for the heat-heavy burden is it also mounts IS Triple-Strength Myomer - but no partial-wing unless I want to alter the loadout slightly.
I'm not ideologically opposed to the Heavy Laser. It's just funny to me that every 3060-70 variant had to have them.
This really is the phenix hawk in clan form. Tonnage speed and the change from medium lasers to lrm 5s. The range will dominate lights and the damage is enough, so its different but really doing the job better. It just needs to flamer that small laser to replace rhe phenix hawk mgs.
Very similar role.
Yeah, have to agree with pretty much everything said - both about the original design and all the IIC variants.
Wow, modern MegaMek is looking good. I might have to track it down again.
It's quite fun if you need a quick BattleTech fix and don't have a friend handy.
@@MechanicalFrogYeah, I've played it a lot off and on over the years. I remember being able to save designs in Heavy Metal and importing to MM, but I lost the installation disc a long time and a few computers ago - are there other methods for doing that now?
There is a built-in editor that allows you to save your own mechs. It's not super easy though, so one will need to search for the walkthrough. Making and saving them is easy, but getting them into the right folder for MegaMek to see them can be tricky.@@Brigand231
@@MechanicalFrog Cool, thanks, shouldn't be too hard if it's still the same location as it was before.
"Tell me how - how are you doing that?" 😂
"Why? Because they wanted to, that's why. Stop being so nosy." 🤣
@MechanicalFrog was on one this episode.
Also, he's probably not your dad.
Probably not...
@@MechanicalFrog - but maybe
We all made some mistakes in college so I can't rule anything out 100%
Good video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Only so long until the iic that is nothing like the original Especially with the CGL redesign
"soon..."
Soltic Roundfacer IIC
It only seeks peace.
Ive never been a fan of the Griffin personally but i did use it not so long ago and due to its underestimation it won the fight for me :-) i now have more respect for this tough mech...i prefer the IIC but still arent a fan :-) another great vid
Fair enough. Thanks for watching!
Nice vid, nice mech 👍
Commando IIC video any time soon?
I think we're going to hit all the IICs at some point...
@@MechanicalFrog Outstanding!
IICs are the best
Give me the original. But the Jade Falcon version is a good second
I need to try out the JF jumpy griffin.
Inspired by the VII; XL 6/9(12)/6, Supercharger, Endo, 7t Ferro, 12DHS, 2 Streak4 (1t A each), 4 ER MLasers, targeting computer, ECM, TAG. (BV2 2428)
Speedy and accurate. This works for me.
Having all of the weapkns on the right side of the mech was done with purpose. With a standard engine and the durability that provides, it allows crafty pilots to abuse torso twisting to give two whole hit locations worth of padding to use for survival betwen refires in much the same way that the centurion was designed, though ill take a centurion over a griffon any day because of the center torso medium lasers.
I tend to forgive the lighter mechs for having one-sided loadouts because when you're hit you're in trouble no matter what. It's less acceptable on a Hunchback.
@@MechanicalFrog doesn't the base hunchback have a laser in each hand and head? Besides, while in Mechwarrior it is indeed a death sentence having such a big hitbox, in TT hit locations are random so it really doesn't matter as much. Besides, even if the worst happens, the griffon still has access to punching, kicking and DFA. Rub some dirt in their eye.
I meant to say Griffin. Sorry. My mind is mush and cough medicine today.
@@MechanicalFrog fair enough. Still. While I dislike the griffon myself I UNDERSTAND the appeal of having a whole side of the mech you can use for absorbing hits of you're skilled enough to pull it off
A clan mech with battlefists. Me likey.
I knew I forgot something...
@@MechanicalFrog not like the clans used them to good effect, so you're good
Jade Falcons sure did. @@bthsr7113
Hey mom is wondering if you got your Vanilla Coke from the gas station yet it's been 22 something years.
The heavy lasers with the ER laser are just too hot. The best thing for the heavy mediums is if you replace the ER large from the stock variant like 2 max, spend the rest of tonnage on ammo, heat sinks, anything. I'd would want it in a lance but wouldn't personally pilot one
There definitely needs to be a heat sink or two added somehow.
I like the griffin IIC the 4 lrm 5s are excellent smoke dispensers in my experience.
Definitely some interesting possibilities with unique ammo.
dont have much to say, so ill say i have to agree with your rant in the beginning. its an easily corrected needless vulnerability
Glad I'm not alone.
Indeed, never put all your eggs in one basket.
"unless of course you've somehow firing that small laser every turn, in which case how? please tell me how how are you doing that" well you see mr frog, the seagulls have mistaken my missles for french fries
Edit: although in all do seriousness if they put this thing in the BattleTech video game then I could totally see someone firing every single weapon every turn and punching. I forget whether or not you can do that in the tabletop but that would likely be a reason why you'd consistently be overheating
I totally forgot the intense desire to eradicate the local flora and fauna.
I find interesting your opinion about the Griffin, given that it is my favorite Mech (even in its Roundfacer original version). To me it is THE 'Mech in terms of appearance, maybe due to how generic it looks to us today. The placing of the weaponry, though, is indeed quite silly given how BT handles damage. Future versions tend to be better than that. The IIC, though, is indeed quite the upgrade, swift and with interesting weapons.
ah Roundfacer my beloved 💕
There are definitely worse mechs out there. Just many more better.
@@MechanicalFrog That is sadly true. In Alpha Strike it is great, but in what pertains Classic BT or even the videogame, the Vindicator and the Wolverine as usually better picks for the same roles.
@@brothersgt.grauwolff6716 As a design it just works, right?
How is the Small Laser firing each turn?
My dude have you seen the bird flocks the Sphere has? I'll be damned if I let some Spheroid bird shit on my mech!
>Having a small laser and not firing it every single turn
Nice try, Fed.
The Griffin IIC is a solid unit and a general upgrade to the Griffin. Its faster, better armed, more accurate especially at close range. All that while staying reasonably priced, and very cheap compared to most Clan mechs.
One unit I really dislike the Whitworth, because its very slow for its weight and for a Medium mech. The Griffin IIC is everything the Whitworth should have been.
Oh Whitworth... we need to have a chat.
I still prefer the inner sphere 3050 original.
The GRF-3RG is a nasty short range brawler. Not so sure about slapping an XL engine onto the other 3050 era upgrades.
Heat management is for the weak.
(Sounds of my mech stackpoling in the distance)
I really hated the TRO artwork for this