Aligning the propeller shaft and gearbox - Project Brupeg Ep.319
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ย. 2023
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We are sorry for another delayed episode, thank you for your patience!
This week the mounts go on the gearbox and motor and we align the gearbox to the propeller staft. It doesn't go as planned (of course... it's a boat!).
After four days, Dame and Birk get it aligned but it's still not right. Thanks to Daniel for some help and Dame worked out why.
We introduce you to one of our favourite TH-cam channels and while we get the iffy shaft sorted look forward to getting the exhaust and a bunch of other pre-launch jobs done.
Thank you for your untiring support, we love and appreciate it!
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I am always uplifted and inspired by how determined you are and how hard you all work. Even more inspiring are the relationships you share with each other. I'm sure it can't be easy with all the stresses involved. Thank you for being a shining beacon of humanity!
Thank you for taking the time to show the details for proper alignment in the engine room. I find this fascinating. Cheers.
Another champion episode, so admire your grit and determination to do things right, thank you team 👏👏
I love that "All Millimeters Shifter" on the bung tap.
What a pleasure to see your progression, Well done to all of you.
So much information shared about engine/gearbox/prop shaft alignment. For Dame, even when aligned, it's still not perfectly aligned. Almost there. Jobs within jobs. Boat life. Amazing the difference when the engine bay is cleaned out and fully repainted.
Nine ...9 years .... wow and outstanding ! 59.2 K Subscribers .... you deserve al least 100K, your content is good and the sense of humour and enthusiastic never say die attitude you display is inspiring and entertaining. Looking forward to the boat going in the water.
Comment about Jason being tired - your resilience never ceases to amaze me. Kia Kaha whanau.
You've come a long way Damien and the boat is looking great, and your not too far away from a launch either. Looking forward to that day. To see the smile on your face from all the hard work you've all done.
One small step for
Brupeg ,
One massive step for Dam
I love the sound of clicky-click-click (the torque wrench). Progress mates. Love when the Project BruPeg notification sounds. Cheers to the crew.
1Starts at 20lps!! must have BIG nuts to get tightened ☺
Great update 2x👍
Great work! … And… Good on You Guys for mentioning Henk-Jan
Cats do love a cardboard box!
Until you try to build something for the cat out of them... Then they don't want anything to do with them
Daminan, it is great to see you working so har to get the things in alignment. What I have learned from a long life as an engineer is, that no two shafts can be in alignment when separate parts are assembled. So always use a coupling that compensates for the malalignment. The coupling also prevents shockwaves and bendingforces from the main axle from ending into and harming the gearbox.
Great dial in. Most people would be accepting once within 0.05 mm. But your so right, it's your baby brupeg & a good dial in & machining will set its mood.
There has to be a lauch day. As always the ocean is another story safe use of power equipment. Probably some procedural info needs writing up from mechanical to electrical for crew & those things that we all forget.
Absolutely
G'day Crew...
Alignments hard by the yard ,
but by the inch it's a sinch .
Nice job Damo, almost there now.
Respect....!
Thanks Craig. Feel like we are getting there. Got the adapter remachines and took out 12thou of run out! Might actually be able to get the numbers to work now
Here you guys have for a beer or 2!
Thank you so much!
I'm here with you from the beginning, what an achievement! Congratulations, can't wait seeing you afloat.
Your trust in the gearbox was sweet, but damn I was holding my breath when you started turning the gearbox shaft by hand… until you knew it was perfect! So relieved it’s just the adapter plate! Hugs all round!
Love watching your logic and brain process...Keep going....
I’ve literally been watching paint dry…………..and I absolutely love it fair play to yee painting on yeer bellies guys and 9 years of hardwork and dedication,progress and entertainment along the way hats off to yee and thanks 👊😀👍
Thanks so much Tommy
Looks so good to see the engine and transmission sitting where they belong. Glad you found the source of the misalignment.
Dear Jess and Damian,
Willeke but in special I found this vlog very interesting because lining the gearbox with the propeller shaft is crucial for a long life of the gearbox and the same is valid for the propeller shaft itself and even for the engine in a way. You’ve solved this perfectly as well as a watertight tank under the gearbox. Brupeg is again a step closer for launching and your “to do list” is becoming shorter and shorter. We wish you all the luck of the world in getting Brupeg ready for launching and send you love from the Netherlands
I went to one tenth of a mm and she seems nice and smooth but your going to be perfect, very nice.
Thats good to know, thanks for that info
BTW, regarding torquing: Learned from a car mechanic that the reason they torque to "tight" (ca 90Nm) and then do a fixed number of degrees is because it proved to be more accurate when you have high torque specs (for example head or flywheel bolts).
Which made me a bit sad because I had hoarded an old beefy torque wrench /(because it'd come in handy one day), and when I finally thought I'd be able to use it, the spec's just wanted a specific number of degrees instead of an insanely oversized torque wrench :P
ca = approximately (circa)
How 56 mins can fit into what seems like 15 mins (with minimal cat) is amazing. Usually only cat vids with
Amazing progress.. Can't wait to see the culminating of all the effort on launch day!!
That chart you showed at 45:23 shows measurements in mils (thousandths or an inch), not mm. So your tolerance of 0.1 mm or less is 3.0 mils which is good for 900 RPM.
It is a shame when other's work is not up to standard. Install your corrected adapter and torque all the bolts THEN check for runout. If all is good THEN do your alignment. Take this time to scrape the outside edge of the shaft flange clean. You can use 3:00, 6:00 and 9:00 for the co-axial alignment if all 3 numbers match.
Such a pleasure to watch. You guys are competent and kind.
It helps me through the heavy times of my own project. Thanks!
Ahh… my morning fix, thank you!
Make sure you do the final adjustment after you put it in the water. That is where it is going to sit for the most part of its life. On the hard the boat might have hogged a bit and with all the cutting and welding putting unknown stresses on the hull. to make it easier, clock 3 and 9 then set 12 to what 3&9 are. The chart you were referring to is imperial. It looked like there was some crap imbedded on the faces of the gearbox coupling and the adapter plate. It is a lot of playing around to get it %100 but it is well worth it for piece of mind when a thousand miles from nowhere.
well hope the adapter gets sorted without much grief nice to get the engine checked off the old to do list stay safe all
As a machinist I was always conscious of runout.
If a lathe guy doesnt pay attention to runout it can make the mill guys job a nightmare.
Since I did both the lathe work and the mill work I was really conscious of runout.
Even if the part didnt have to be true to function I still made a point of making everything as perfect as could possibly get it.
Sign of a good machinist to make it perfect regardless of the part.
@@ProjectBrupeg
Yeah.....I've been accused of being anal retentive on more than one occasion.
Nice work 👍
Looking good guys!
Something to keep in mind Damion, painted surfaces do not work well together. In tine those surfaces if bolted together will loosen up in a short amount of time. Hope this advice will help you guys.
Completely agree , whenever I’m building mounts they get a light dusting of zinc primer then the mating surfaces and also where the heads of bolts go get masked up so the rest of mount can be painted.
Probably the only job on a boat that gives me ptsd every time. But when you get it right and its not shaking the welds apart its a good feeling.
So close !, to get a 100% alignment its worth waiting a week or so, great job
Amazing progress! Love love love to see Jess using the helmet ❤Cheers from Southern California USA
Making faces parallel on a lathe is actually pretty simple.
Having a test indicator rather than a dial indicator is the key especially when you have a through hole in the center of the part. If it doesnt have a through hole you can make one,or you can bore out some soft jaws and you can easily hold .001 surface parallel.
But yeah a surface grinder would be the easiest way to go.
It’s relatively easy to get faces parallel on lathes because that geometry relies on the accuracy of the lathe and it’s related wear factors. What’s not as easy is concentricity of various cylindrical components if repositioning is required between setups.
@@davidhtims
Even a clapped out lathe will give you parallel faces with a fresh set of bored soft jaws.
Concentricity is easy if you have a Buck Chuck but those are far from cheap.
And again using a set of freshly cut soft jaws really help.
You can also wack the master jaws with a brass hammer to get parts to line up on an old chuck that has a worn out scroll and master jaws.
It’s a lot of work now, but we’ll worth it in the long term.
You prob have finished this but maybe this might help if you haven’t. Always adjust height of engine and GB first then as you make sideways adjustment this will not effect the height. You only need 180 deg rotation of dial gauge 3 points 90 deg apart is all you need. Get engine position first then push shaft back to it. Don’t pour chock fast till it’s in the water. You will need sole plates unde engine mount feet. Has anyone done chock fast calculations for this installation. I am only 500m away if you want me to come and chat about it.
Wicked episode. Two steps forward, 1 back.
Well done champ - once that adaptor is trued up all should be well - Kind Regards
You guys are brilliant. 🇨🇦
Thanks Bill
Fantastic
Now that I've seen your bilges, your dinghy and you cleaning your bung out I think I know you much better now. :)
Props on spending time to allign with your biggest fan!
We are a boat that’s powered by our fans
Love watching you guys it’s great learning how to do the stuff you do
I’ve been watching the resto from the start Brupeg has come along way from what she was after sinking.
I think you should pull the prop shaft back 3mm or so, depending on the adapter plate spigot length, to keep them apart still for checking runout. Measure exactly how far the prop needs to come forward and use feeler gauges with a shim to set that distance between the coupling faces, then adjust your angle and runout with feeler gauges and dial indicator. Slide prop shaft forward and you should be finished. If you set them up apart with the prop in final position, as you bring motor/gearbox back, the height will change and you’ll have to do it all over again.
you guys are amazing!!!!!
At last a cracking episode well done all
I have never done this before but understand what you are aiming at and can see a few variables at play. Particularly after reading through the comments. I think that guys who are hitting the sweet spot you are after are probably masters in some sort of clock-guage dark arts thingy. They may be worth the $$ they earn and thus save for owners... Nice vid again, thanks Jess. The non welding fratenity will be stoked :)
Wow! You guys really flogged engine alignment, too bad you didn’t get it finished.
Yip, sometimes that happens when everytime you spin the gearbox to measure it the numbers change because a part wasn’t machined correctly.
I’m really glad to see Dame taking the time to get the engine / gearbox and the prop shaft aligned perfectly. After everything is aligned perfectly, and the mount compound is poured,
How long does it need to for complete cure, and will there be any compression over time of the compound?
Thanks Bart. Around 18hrs for full cure and zero compression
It must be some amazing stuff!
I’m old, back when dirt was new, we aligned engines with steel shims. The really thin ones, 18 gauge, would rust out about every couple of years.
I really enjoy watching y’all learn as you go. So with the oil tank, is it for when the engine oil is changed, so multiple oil dumps can be stored before pumping out? Or is it like an oil cooler for the engine?
Bet ya never thought Brupeg would have such an absolutely awesome drive system! ⚓😎
As a professional machinist, i concur with being onto it to the n'th degree, that flange could've done alot of damage at different points in time to components that have varying failure points (seals, bearings, fasteners, etc.). Thanks for sharing, Cheers from the Pine Tree State, Joel
Curtis @ Cutting Edge Engineering is not a million miles from you and it would make a great TH-cam collaboration!!
Actually reached out to him a while back and he ignored us. So we’ll just carry on and get the job done
Good job all.
Kicking goals there.. or seeing as you are Kiwis, running in tries? (I donno) but great :)
Oh Sea Dee ...... Catch Excellence.. Love it ;)
Yes, Henk-Jan. the odds of both oil heat exchangers essentially crapping out at the same time
Hype! new vid!
@12:00 Love @12:44 he kills the moment hahahaha
I’m no expert with this stuff. But the engine, gear box and the work you showed us looks the business. Love your work. Please don’t be bashful about a second go fund me if you get stuck. People will support you or they will not. But the process you have made with the funds you were given has changed the project. You project is not for six weeks, I hope it is for six years or longer. I was tentatively in my first giving. Now I realise I should have trusted you more. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much for your faith in us. And thank you for your donation for the engine and gearbox. Can’t wait to get them bolted down, it feels so close now
Hi both, been a while since I’ve seen in touch. As usual I float back to the surface. Suggestion, why not use a shim that can absorb the vibrations? All the best both.
you should put locking nuts on adjusting bolts in front
Absolutely. Set the adjustment, then lock it in.
I assume he is going to grout it, he explicitly said he is going to grout the transmission mounts, e.g. @44:30 "I want to get my dam in for the Chock Fast", I'd think he do the front mount too, the end of the one screw in the center is providing minimal bearing surface for long term operation, fine for static alignment but not so much for a running diesel engine bouncing through heavy seas.
Thought. Instead of messing up the paint work adding two "push" gearbox alignment fittings, can you just build two "pull" gizmos, that can hook over a convenient edge, or only require small non strategic welds away from the mounting surfaces.
Forget converting to steam - there should be some warp drives going spare now that Star Trek: Picard has ended.
best show on youtube atm :)
Way back in the day ( about 30 years ago ) Survey insisted on Intumescent 2 pac in the engine room, guess who Dad got to do that job 😵💫
Why not a flex coupling between the flanges, easier and noise damping.
For this engine it’s around 10k to flex mount, as we are community funded by our Patreons that’s just not an option for us.
@36:35 Why don't you put the gauge base on the propshaft that isn't moving measuring the engine shaft?
Would it achieve the same thing and tell you run out and make it easier to read - less issues with space?
I'm not a sailor - zero experience - just armchair interested in method :)
Enjoy watching your content.
Cheers.
look add Aquadrive antivibration system. No aligning and vibration problems.
If money were no issue that would be great. However it’s around 10k for a flex mount system for this vessel.
That’s a real engineers woodsaw..
YEA BOY , NO8 WIRE STYLE
Hello, just wondering if Margo and Carlos plan on returning in the future? Was cool seeing the big crew knocking tons of projects out.
Margaux’s visa was up and she went back to France. Carlos was an awesome guy but he wasn’t quite the right fit
Shame there's no room what so ever for a yoke between the prop shaft and reduction gears. Other way to align shafts is to remove or slide the prop flang back so you have that messurement shaft to shaft. 🤔🤔Flanges will never align. Take a secondary messurerment off the bildge brackets and ceiling to realinge the shafts. Once the prop flange is reinstalled. An over head cross lazer is a big help narrowing engine gear box and prop alignment.👉👉We do the same for pump to electric motor alignments in the U.S. Navy. Another trick for tight spaces install a flex coupling between the prop and gear box. To make up the difference and done.
check propshaft coupling run out before reassembly this will throw out alingnment also as to properly face align couplings you need to measure the same point on each coupling as you rotate both together
Day-me-yen will this boat ever?
Yeah we are really sorry about that, we wish we could go much faster but we are grateful and lucky to have so much amazing support, and we are looking forward to what this project can create in the future for everyone. Doing this on a shoestring budget and working as hard as we can is a slow process and we can’t wait to be launched because our costs will go right down and we will be able to do more for the community. Thanks for your feedback, hope your having a nice day. Jess
I am glad you are doing the alignment to this degree of accuracy (I would have done the same) , check if the grub screw on the prop shaft flange is good and can hold hard reverse thrust, should you need to power away from rocks you wouldn't dream of the shaft slipping out when you need it most. I love your level of patience and accuracy y-all. I wish you many years of good voyages and good health .
Jess must be a trades person with the molestation of you while you where under the motor painting and couldn’t escape quickly lol
Lots of hoops to jump through, getting it aligned. There must be a really good reason why you won't put a flexible / compliant joint in between the gearbox and the shaft. I'm sure it's been mentioned in a previous episode, but i forgot. Was it the required torque spec, or the available space to put it?
It was the 10k price tag for the flex coupling and three mounts sized to the engine
@@ProjectBrupeg oof, yeah, that's a good reason. 😅
Are you going to fit a vibration meter so you can monitor your awesome work? You know. sipping your morning coffee with the overlay on the big screen wondering what sort of vibes the surrounding vessels are contaminating you with.
How about pushing the shaft up until the two disk are just touching then rotating the shaft so the two surfaces hone themselves to a perfect fit?
47:34 - Regarding the pivot point for the alignment being "too far" forward, is it possible to swap the transmission mounts port->starboard and starboard->port and move the pivot point backwards that way? Not sure if everything would line up, but if so, that would shift the points back from where they are now.
Is there a plan to install a line cutter at the propeller?
Question is the bolt holes in flange and thread bolt holes are probably off by more than what you are trying to get. Get It close and get the boat in the water
Bolts are just to clamp it. Alignment is a seperate thing. It must be aligned correctly and then clamped in that position using the bolts
What about thermal expansion of the shaft line ? Wondering if it is significant. Maybe necessary to offset in the cold state so that it becomes aligned in the hot state. You would need to know what the vertical growth is expected to be.
The shaft is axially constrained by the gear box, the only "alignment" shaft expansion would affect would be the sand seal. That might be why he compressed the O-ring by 3mm? But I'd expect the shaft tube and shaft to be at a similar temperature, the shaft might be a little hotter, but I bet it not a huge amount more.
Does your alignment take into account any thermal expansion of the engine and gearbox - or can the shaft just be pushed and pulled that small amount without problems?
No account taken for heat as the temps remain low. Our stern tube is oil cooled to the temp of seawater. But if expansion does happen the shaft can just move backwards a few thou
Rotate the Face of the Dial Gauge to Zero it!
Alignment looks good was it checked when you turn the propeller shaft?
Never seen such a complicated way of line a box to a shaft. And I have done 100s over the years
Advice is welcome
Why is it so difficult? Usually, alignment is important and difficult to fit into, so why don't you connect the axes with Universal Join?
A damper bush/donut ,is something like that suitable to use on the driveline?most vehicle drivelines have one or two ,maybe not having insulated mounts is giving you some extra stress in the alignment .
Normally on commercial boats they don’t rubber mount. Solid is the standard method. That said it’s possible to do but costs around 10k for us to go that way
? Q how do you know that the flang on the prop is a perfect circle any off-set will throw out any measurements taken...should the surface be paint free ? A brilliant show ..
Yes the surface needs to be paint free to get an accurate reading. The outer diameter of the prop coupling will have been machined true when it was made it’s it’s practically impossible for it to go oval after that process. So yes it’s possible but unlikely to be out of round
Does the gearbox manufacturer manual give you thermal expansion figures to take into account when doing the gearbox alignment? Spent many years "misaligning" things so when up to temperature the are in alignment. I like the effort your putting in to getting it right. Been there where something out of your control is causing a bad alignment. Really frustrating.
Will need to check on that.
Just wondering why you’re not using the waist oil to produce heat and thrust.
I found the price for everything cheaper in Bundaberg than in Gladstone
Damian this might help .. im a fitter and turner get this in your head 1000 divided by 25.4 mm = 39.37 so 1 mm = 0.0394 thou mate just remember this instead 1mm = 40 thou this makes shifting the decimal point easy so 1/10 of a mm = 0.004 thou [4 thou ] make 1/100 mm =0.0004 thou or less than 1/2 thou so each mark on that metric dial is less than 1/2 thou … its funny I’ve asked young engineers how many thou in a inch there basic come back I only know metric come on I edge them im basically telling you the answer … haha buddy I’ve found digital verniers these day good enough for most turning work we didnt have digital ones when I did my apprenticeship but if you buy a good pair say mitoyo brand $300 there great for 1/2 thou even that accuracy you moving into realms of surface grinders and temp controlled environments Ive used 1mm =40 though all my turning life and never came unstuck some old machines lathes are only imp scaled I’ve just held my mouth the right way approaching the 40 thou good enough turning metric on a imp lathe … ask a young engineer how many tho in a inch you be dumbfounded how many can’t answer that easy question the normal answer is I only know metric hahaha ..
Ps an average hair on your head is 4 thou some ppl thinner by 1 some ppl thicker by 1 Ive never measured a bees dick but hell a bees dick must be accurate all old machinists use that measurement hahahaha you can see a fly shit on paper so out a fly shit is sometimes not good enough ..
1mm =40 also makes drill selection easy too 1/2 inch =500 thou 1/4 inch = 250 thou 1/8 = 125thou 1/16 =0.0625 thou 1/32 =0.03125 thou 1/64 = 0.0155 [close enough ] im sure you see the pattern I’ve done the young guys are amazed I can pick up a imperial drill and quickly in my head tell them to 1/2 mm accuracy what that imperial drill is … give me a 3/4 drill at a hardware store sorry I haven’t got a 3/4 ok give me a 19 mm close enough hahaha 19 x 40 = 760 ,,, my 40 is slightly big hey 19 x 3937 = 0.748 how much closer than a fly shit must one be ..you be pulling your imperial drill set out looking for that 10.25 tapping drill before you know it …. This is what I do. In my head ok im looking for a 10.25 mm drill 10.25 x40 is 410 thou I know this is already a fly shit big in my conversion .375 is 3/8th too small but if I add 1/32 to 3/8th .375 +.031 = .406 so a 10.25 drill for tapping now becomes imp drill 13/32 or you could even go up a 1/64 and still be ballpark 27/64th …. Please pass this onto the young ones explain the hair on your head is 4 thou 1mm = 40 thou just a fly shit big 1000thou in a inch 1 inch 1/2 inch =500 1/4 =250 1/8th =125 and so forth engineering and its conversions and tolerances made easy … of course the easiest converter for metric to imp and spot on is your digital verniers dial the number lock them off and push the button the fractional size is as previously explained bit of practice you do it all in your head and amaze your friends ..