I find it humorous that the marriage of Edward and Mary QofS was to unite the two nations with a male heir - and we got that from Mary’s son, without Edward!
The Rough Wooing is such a strange event because as Dr. Kat said, a lot of people died to ultimately change nothing. It would have been interesting to see what would’ve happened if Mary QofS had married Edward. If he had still died young without children, Mary had her own claim similar to Jane Grey’s but with the huge benefit of already being consort. Would the English people have left Mary QofS on the throne or fought for Mary Tudor? An interesting thought experiment!
Right? I'm very curious about where my ancestors stood on the whole thing. A lot of my ancestors immigrated to the colonies from England AND Scotland in the mid to late 1600s, so I know their families were living through all this.
Edward VI would’ve probably died before they could marry. I don’t think they would’ve married until Mary was at least 12, that would be December 1554, eighteen months after Edward’s death.
@@MsJaytee1975 Right, I didn't mean the immigrants themselves but their ancestors. I haven't traced back further than the arrival paperwork and ship records yet so I can't say how close they lived to important sites, etc.
This is such an interesting thought experiment. Both are fervent Catholics, and so there's no advantage either recusants or COE supports could hang onto. I think Jane Grey would still be deposed, because there was no real way she could have held on. The real differentiator would have been rather or not Mary Stewart was pregnant when Edward died. If so, then you have a regent situation while her pregnancy develops. If not, then you have the potential for civil war since at that point Mary Tudor was still out of the line of succession. There was no real civil war with Jane Grey because she didn't last long enough to have any support, nor was she really well known.
Excellent discussion! As someone of primarily Scottish and Welsh descent, with some English, I side with Scotland here. Of course, I’ve always felt keen empathy for poor Mary. She was a mess, but she honestly tried and was thwarted by evil men at almost every turn. 🏴🦄
It probably didn't help that she was raised in another country for another role. Seemed like that really worked against her being loved at home. I agree completely about her being thwarted by evil me.
Indeed but she did get the last laugh in the end via her son uniting the crowns of Scotland and England despite all the machinations of the men who set her up for execution to try to prevent just that.
Thank you, beautifully presented as ever. I do wonder what the two children involved knew about the whole sorry mess, and what they thought. I find the childhood betrothals of this period very weird.
How did you know I desperately wanted to know what “rough wooing” meant! Thank you for an excellent explanation. I’m always amazed at how a death or marriage or lack of a marriage moved history 🦁😍🦄👑🇬🇧
Team Scotland for this particular issue. However, how different the world might be if Edward VI and Mary of Scotland had actually married. They both might have lived to be old and their children might have united Scotland and England much earlier.
One of my favorite parts of history is the Scottish English conflicts. So glad I watched this as it was a section of that history I was unaware of. 🦄🏴
Mary Stuart most commonly referred to as Mary Queen of Scots led anything but a charmed life whose total downfall started long before her forced abdication The sins of the parents cast upon the child relegated her to the position as someone to be feared from birth. Hope quickly became threatened by fear and so her sad journey began. How often it became a Seymour as the enemy within. 👑
MARY QOS, it must be said, was the author of 97% of her own misery. She had the gentlest, most advantageous of rearings in the Court Of France; but Once she bounced into her own homeland-having on the dreadful advice of her Guise relatives-quartered her arms with those of England-a defiance which guaranteed a bristly "welcome" from Elizabeth I. who refused her safe passage thru England. This evoked a typical Marian melodramatic-quasi-martyr response .😢😫Not a promising beginning.💔
@@katharper655 I can’t argue with that, with the caveat she did not asked to be queen at one month of age. Those who were supposed to teach her the elements of good judgement created a Peter Pan ( a child who never emotionally grew up) same as many monarchs including HenryVIII. Most children learn at an early age two very useful life lessons. “kept your friends close and your enemies closer,” And “pick your friends wisely because you can’t puck your family.” All the privileged in the world only earned her one reward: being beheaded as a queen.
@@valeriebrown6079 With so many females being name Anne, Elizabeth, Catherine, Jane and Mary distinguishing each by title is a necessity to make genealogical connections especially when surnames were still used primarily for geographical and identity separation.
Another great video, Dr Kat! 👍Has anyone read Dorothy Dunnett's 'Lymond' books? The first, 'The Game of Kings,' is set during this time. It's a very good series.
👑 Possibly a bit off topic, but I keep trying to remember to say that I would be interested in a video about James Bothwell, 1st Duke of Orkney and 4th Earl of Bothwell. The story is always presented from the perspective of Mary, Queen of Scots, it might be illuminating to look at his story. Sad, though.
Good suggestion! I only know his part in Mary's story, & that he died in captivity in Denmark. I always forget he was 1st Duke of Orkney though, cos there was a re-creation of the title after his death, & it went to my very distant ancestor, Robert Stewart, an illegitimate son of James V, so he was also "1st Duke of Orkney", & it confuses me to see someone else with the exact same title.
A few topics that have crossed my mind lately- what is the history of English monarchs also claiming the crown of France, and when did the tradition of royal marriage for political alliance end and why do you think it stopped when it did? Thanks for your videos I always learn so much!
🦄I'm Team Scotland on this one. Imagine somebody forcing you to marry someone to the point where hundreds if not thousands of people are killed. Ridiculous and tragic! As another video idea, you mention the shift from Catholicism to Protestantism in Scotland during the late 1540s to the early 1560s. I think a deep dive into how that shift came to be would be worthy and you'd do a smash up, bang up job on it!
🌹🌹🌹Dr. Kat, your history videos are quite Brilliant! 🌟🌟🌟 You deliver with such enthusiasm and passion ; you make History Enjoyable and Relatable! Thank You! 💖 As for the Subject at hand ( the Rough Wooing).. the outcome seems to have been years of senseless Violence for an unattained purpose. I'll choose..🦄🦄🦄🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Great video! Thanks for connecting all the dots on English/Scottish border battles in the mid-16th century. 🦁💍🦄 P.S. If there's anything true about the falcon plucking, a marriage to Edward VI would probably have been yet another alternative tragedy for Mary, Queen of Scots.
I don't think it would've been a happy marriage either- Edward being a devout Protestant & Mary being a devout Catholic, & it seems like they were absolute opposites in personality too. Thankfully Mary's 1st marriage was to someone she knew & cared about- Edward, Darnley & Bothwell would've been an even worse list of husbands.
As a lover of folk ballads, I have always been interested in the goings-on between Scotland and England. The so-called "border ballads" are numerous. They sometimes describe heroic exploits, elopements, and incursions into opposing territories, particularly during the 15th and 16th centuries. Because of the ballads, I have always pictured the border as a kind of lawless yet romanticized no-man's land, like our American Wild West.
@@jasperhorace7147 Oh well, not much pleased Henry. He certainly wouldn’t have been pleased that his longed for son died at a young age, his daughter Mary wanted to take the country back to Catholicism and his second unwanted daughter had a whole age named for her and reigned longer than he did.
Dr. Kat, well done. The England/Scotland enmity extends back to the Roman occupation & incursions into Scotland. The rough wooing just reminds us that the English Crown bullied the Scots at every convenient political opportunity often to offset their own decisions like adopting a reform religion that raised security questions when traditional allies remained Catholic. Henry VIII pushed his neice QMS into arms of France. She would have to become Protestant to marry King Edward but would not have been able to hang on in England against claims of 2 English Tudor princesses unless she had Edward's son. And even then she would have needed English supporters like those who supported ER1. She didn't have the skils & cunning of the Tudor sisters or know when to convert. Royals were political pawns in a very dangerous dance. Most Americans are blind to the political & religious issues of this era because it preceded English colonization. But it does help explain why most Europeans are post-religion politically while US is still thrashing about with a religious minority. Thank you for helping us remember our collective history.
I spent a good bit of time today battling thistles (nasty little jerks, particularly so far out of their natural range), but I do have to side with Scotland on this one. They were underdogs in the European theater (or at least appear as such now), and Henry was such a...well, we know what he was.
👰♀️ An American by birth, I'll not formally choose a side at this time since my family roots are from both sides of Hadrian's wall (although I love a good tartan!!) It has always broken my heart the way this situation was handled.
Another fascinating video, England and Scotland two great nations with proud identity’s who still have the drive to assert themselves. Hope we are eventually on a path to mutual respect 💍 thank you again Dr Kat x
It’s also interesting that the crowns were never united and that both still remain. The monarch of England has the crown of England and is at the same time monarch of the Scots, in which role can wear the Scottish crown.
Thanks for this great video! I find these battles really fascinating, and that they even extended into Edward VI's reign, but never amounted to any results..
🦄🦁 I have ancestors on both sides, as well as Welsh and Irish. However, I feel a strong pull toward Scotland. I always wondered how the Scottish and French came to be so close. Do you have a video about that?
This has always been, to me, one of the big "What ifs" in history. What if Edward and Mary Queen of Scots had managed to get married? Of course Edward would still have passed away, and maybe they would have had an heir or not. What kind of Queen of England and Scotland would Mary have made? And what of the future we know of - such as the Battle of Culloden - what kind of alternate reality might have been? We all love our Elizabeth I, and can't imagine history without her, but I do wonder about this might-have-been scenario. It would have changed absolutely everything.
I find it humorous that the marriage of Edward and Mary QofS was to unite the two nations with a male heir - and we got that from Mary’s son, without Edward!
The Rough Wooing is such a strange event because as Dr. Kat said, a lot of people died to ultimately change nothing.
It would have been interesting to see what would’ve happened if Mary QofS had married Edward. If he had still died young without children, Mary had her own claim similar to Jane Grey’s but with the huge benefit of already being consort. Would the English people have left Mary QofS on the throne or fought for Mary Tudor? An interesting thought experiment!
Right? I'm very curious about where my ancestors stood on the whole thing. A lot of my ancestors immigrated to the colonies from England AND Scotland in the mid to late 1600s, so I know their families were living through all this.
Edward VI would’ve probably died before they could marry. I don’t think they would’ve married until Mary was at least 12, that would be December 1554, eighteen months after Edward’s death.
@@MsJaytee1975 Right, I didn't mean the immigrants themselves but their ancestors. I haven't traced back further than the arrival paperwork and ship records yet so I can't say how close they lived to important sites, etc.
This is such an interesting thought experiment. Both are fervent Catholics, and so there's no advantage either recusants or COE supports could hang onto. I think Jane Grey would still be deposed, because there was no real way she could have held on. The real differentiator would have been rather or not Mary Stewart was pregnant when Edward died. If so, then you have a regent situation while her pregnancy develops. If not, then you have the potential for civil war since at that point Mary Tudor was still out of the line of succession. There was no real civil war with Jane Grey because she didn't last long enough to have any support, nor was she really well known.
Thank you for covering this topic, Dr Kat!! My Scottish & English heritage are both grateful. 🦄🦁
Excellent discussion! As someone of primarily Scottish and Welsh descent, with some English, I side with Scotland here. Of course, I’ve always felt keen empathy for poor Mary. She was a mess, but she honestly tried and was thwarted by evil men at almost every turn. 🏴🦄
Most women were.
@@catgladwell5684which is one of the things that made Elizabeth so amazing
It probably didn't help that she was raised in another country for another role. Seemed like that really worked against her being loved at home. I agree completely about her being thwarted by evil me.
Indeed but she did get the last laugh in the end via her son uniting the crowns of Scotland and England despite all the machinations of the men who set her up for execution to try to prevent just that.
Thank you, beautifully presented as ever. I do wonder what the two children involved knew about the whole sorry mess, and what they thought. I find the childhood betrothals of this period very weird.
How did you know I desperately wanted to know what “rough wooing” meant! Thank you for an excellent explanation.
I’m always amazed at how a death or marriage or lack of a marriage moved history 🦁😍🦄👑🇬🇧
Mary, herself, said it best. "En ma fin, est mon commencement."
Yesss!! A great way to kick off my weekend with an epic historical tale!! I am excited!!
Maps, maps, MAPS! Thank you, Dr. Kat!
I'm glad you are enjoying the maps, thank you 😊
Loved this! I'd heard of different parts of the rough wooing but it's nice to have it all put together!!! 👑
Team Scotland for this particular issue. However, how different the world might be if Edward VI and Mary of Scotland had actually married. They both might have lived to be old and their children might have united Scotland and England much earlier.
🦄 ❤
I really appreciate the inclusion of the maps showing battle locations. I'm bad at British geography, and it's helpful. 🦄
Being an American I don't have a side but I do love learning about UK history. Great and thought provoking video as always.
I can trace ancestors to both places so yeah lol this American stays neutral as well
how can you not side with the Scots they were fighting for their indpeendanc e
One of my favorite parts of history is the Scottish English conflicts. So glad I watched this as it was a section of that history I was unaware of. 🦄🏴
🦄 Scotland! Seriously, as a lifelong history buff with an especial fascination for the Tudor era I greatly enjoy all of your videos.
Mary Stuart most commonly referred to as Mary Queen of Scots led anything but a charmed life whose total downfall started long before her forced abdication The sins of the parents cast upon the child relegated her to the position as someone to be feared from birth. Hope quickly became threatened by fear and so her sad journey began. How often it became a Seymour as the enemy within. 👑
MARY QOS, it must be said, was the author of 97% of her own misery. She had the gentlest, most advantageous of rearings in the Court Of France; but Once she bounced into her own homeland-having on the dreadful advice of her Guise relatives-quartered her arms with those of England-a defiance which guaranteed a bristly "welcome" from Elizabeth I. who refused her safe passage thru England. This evoked a typical Marian melodramatic-quasi-martyr
response .😢😫Not a promising beginning.💔
Mary is called Queen of Scots because the differences between the Scottish and English constitutions.
@@katharper655 I can’t argue with that, with the caveat she did not asked to be queen at one month of age. Those who were supposed to teach her the elements of good judgement created a Peter Pan ( a child who never emotionally grew up) same as many monarchs including HenryVIII. Most children learn at an early age two very useful life lessons. “kept your friends close and your enemies closer,” And “pick your friends wisely because you can’t puck your family.” All the privileged in the world only earned her one reward: being beheaded as a queen.
@@valeriebrown6079 With so many females being name Anne, Elizabeth, Catherine, Jane and Mary distinguishing each by title is a necessity to make genealogical connections especially when surnames were still used primarily for geographical and identity separation.
@@katharper655 I agree. For a woman who was reputed to be very intelligent, she really lacked common sense. 🇳🇿
Another great video, Dr Kat! 👍Has anyone read Dorothy Dunnett's 'Lymond' books? The first, 'The Game of Kings,' is set during this time. It's a very good series.
I always look forward to your videos and I'm never disappointed with your content.❤❤😍🥰
👑 Possibly a bit off topic, but I keep trying to remember to say that I would be interested in a video about James Bothwell, 1st Duke of Orkney and 4th Earl of Bothwell. The story is always presented from the perspective of Mary, Queen of Scots, it might be illuminating to look at his story. Sad, though.
Good suggestion! I only know his part in Mary's story, & that he died in captivity in Denmark. I always forget he was 1st Duke of Orkney though, cos there was a re-creation of the title after his death, & it went to my very distant ancestor, Robert Stewart, an illegitimate son of James V, so he was also "1st Duke of Orkney", & it confuses me to see someone else with the exact same title.
Thank you Dr. Kat for another wonderfully informative video! 🦄 👸 🤴 🦁
A few topics that have crossed my mind lately- what is the history of English monarchs also claiming the crown of France, and when did the tradition of royal marriage for political alliance end and why do you think it stopped when it did?
Thanks for your videos I always learn so much!
Another good one.
Thanks for explaining all of this. I love your videos, Dr. Kat.
I have 57% Scottish dna…I’d love more on the Scots….thank you for all your history …love it 🥰❤️
🦄I'm Team Scotland on this one. Imagine somebody forcing you to marry someone to the point where hundreds if not thousands of people are killed. Ridiculous and tragic!
As another video idea, you mention the shift from Catholicism to Protestantism in Scotland during the late 1540s to the early 1560s. I think a deep dive into how that shift came to be would be worthy and you'd do a smash up, bang up job on it!
Brilliant as always. What a great way to start the weekend! 🦁
Can't wait to see your website, Dr. Kat!🦁⚡️💍🦄
PS: TH-cam is actually notifying me every time a new video of yours is out 😊😊
Thanks! always love your super videos !! 🫅🦄🦁
Thank you so much!
All those lost lives and all that bad feeling, such a waste. 😢
🦄🦁I'm both Scottish and English hertiage - always enjoy your vidoes Dr. Kat
Another fascinating facet of history!
👑 always enjoy learning from you.
Thank you so so so much for putting the dates up on the screen!! My little ADHD brain actually processed things! 😁😆🐉🐲
💍
As always another amazing video. Thanks for sharing this with us!!
Hopefully everyone enjoys there day!!
Looking forward to your website. 🦄 🦁
🦁I do love you videos. I wish they were longer!🦁
I've come to the conclusion that had Mary and Edward married, both she and Jane Grey would have kept their heads
Enjoy your channel very much, thank you.
Seems like the treaties were not worth the paper they were printed on.
Thank you so much for your all your videos.
❤👑🌺
Another great presentation! 🦄
👑 interest how all the pieces fit together😊
Another great synopsis on the Rough Wooing! 😘
Very informative. Thank you. ❤❤❤😊😊😊
Love your content! Always makes My day😊😊😊❤❤❤❤
Wonderful as always! I would probably be on the English side but feel sorry for Mary. 🇬🇧
Rough wooing indeed!❤️
🌹🌹🌹Dr. Kat, your history videos are quite Brilliant! 🌟🌟🌟 You deliver with such enthusiasm and passion ; you make History Enjoyable and Relatable! Thank You! 💖
As for the Subject at hand ( the Rough Wooing).. the outcome seems to have been years of senseless Violence for an unattained purpose. I'll choose..🦄🦄🦄🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Really enjoyed this topic! Thanks for another great video.
🦁🤴💔👸🦄
Great video! Thanks for connecting all the dots on English/Scottish border battles in the mid-16th century. 🦁💍🦄 P.S. If there's anything true about the falcon plucking, a marriage to Edward VI would probably have been yet another alternative tragedy for Mary, Queen of Scots.
I very much agree with you on that.
I don't think it would've been a happy marriage either- Edward being a devout Protestant & Mary being a devout Catholic, & it seems like they were absolute opposites in personality too. Thankfully Mary's 1st marriage was to someone she knew & cared about- Edward, Darnley & Bothwell would've been an even worse list of husbands.
Another great read! ❤😎
So interesting - as always! 👍💕
I love your videos ❤Dr. Kat.
🦄 I find myself sympathetic to Scotland 🏴
Wonderful video Dr. Kat, Thanks 👑
Brilliant 🎉
As a lover of folk ballads, I have always been interested in the goings-on between Scotland and England. The so-called "border ballads" are numerous. They sometimes describe heroic exploits, elopements, and incursions into opposing territories, particularly during the 15th and 16th centuries. Because of the ballads, I have always pictured the border as a kind of lawless yet romanticized no-man's land, like our American Wild West.
Very interesting today!
It’s interesting that the perceived outcome came about years later when James Stuart became the heir of Elizabeth Tudor. 🤷🏻👑
Henry wouldn’t have been too pleased though. Didn’t he specifically exclude Margaret’s descendants from the English throne?
@@jasperhorace7147 Oh well, not much pleased Henry. He certainly wouldn’t have been pleased that his longed for son died at a young age, his daughter Mary wanted to take the country back to Catholicism and his second unwanted daughter had a whole age named for her and reigned longer than he did.
I love all your history!!!
As ever, a very enjoyable video, Dr. Kat! Very much looking forward to the new website.👑👑👑
Dr. Kat, well done. The England/Scotland enmity extends back to the Roman occupation & incursions into Scotland. The rough wooing just reminds us that the English Crown bullied the Scots at every convenient political opportunity often to offset their own decisions like adopting a reform religion that raised security questions when traditional allies remained Catholic. Henry VIII pushed his neice QMS into arms of France. She would have to become Protestant to marry King Edward but would not have been able to hang on in England against claims of 2 English Tudor princesses unless she had Edward's son. And even then she would have needed English supporters like those who supported ER1. She didn't have the skils & cunning of the Tudor sisters or know when to convert. Royals were political pawns in a very dangerous dance. Most Americans are blind to the political & religious issues of this era because it preceded English colonization. But it does help explain why most Europeans are post-religion politically while US is still thrashing about with a religious minority. Thank you for helping us remember our collective history.
Great video, as usual! Thanks!
Very timely given the talk about holding another referendum on Scottish independence🌹couldn't find a thistle so here's an English rose.
I love your videos! I can’t remember-have you done one about Anne Neville yet? If not, I’d love to see one!
Great topic!
Thanks!
Thank you! 🤩
Thank you so much Kat, you never disappoint🧑🌾🤴👸
Damn woman, I keep humming your intro ditty! Lol💕🐝💕🇺🇸
Your Channel is my favorite one! ❤💗🦄🦄
I spent a good bit of time today battling thistles (nasty little jerks, particularly so far out of their natural range), but I do have to side with Scotland on this one. They were underdogs in the European theater (or at least appear as such now), and Henry was such a...well, we know what he was.
I have heritage in both as well, thank you for all the interesting info! I watch every Friday, no matter what. ❤️🦁🦁🦄
👑. Love your videos!
Thanks again Dr. Kat! I had heard of the rough wooing but didn't know much about it, so definitely learned something new!🦁🦄
Great video - very informative! 🦄
😊 I love listening, and learning, on your channel!
🦄 Since I have a wee bit of Scottish blood (and a wee bit of Welsh, and quite a bit of Irish), I feel required to take the Scottish side. 😆
Love your channel!!!
💍 Another great video!
Fantastic video!
👰♀️ An American by birth, I'll not formally choose a side at this time since my family roots are from both sides of Hadrian's wall (although I love a good tartan!!)
It has always broken my heart the way this situation was handled.
Great explanations, as always 😁
Another fascinating video, England and Scotland two great nations with proud identity’s who still have the drive to assert themselves. Hope we are eventually on a path to mutual respect 💍 thank you again Dr Kat x
Cheers from the USA. 👑 🦁 🌈 👑 🦄 Both are pretty amazing.
This explains why Alfred in Batman: The Animated Series used the password "The Lion and the Unicorn" (which the villain thought was blather).
Great video.😊❤😊❤
❤love your channel!!
🦁🦄 another interesting topic. Thank you!
Terrible waste which only led to more trouble and tragedy. 😥
I can never resist posting a unicorn 🦄
It’s also interesting that the crowns were never united and that both still remain. The monarch of England has the crown of England and is at the same time monarch of the Scots, in which role can wear the Scottish crown.
Thanks for this great video! I find these battles really fascinating, and that they even extended into Edward VI's reign, but never amounted to any results..
My direct ancestors are the Stewart monarchs through James II all the way through Mary Queen of Scots and so on, so definitely 🦄
Another great history lesson, thanks so much!
🎊🎉😆🥳👏🙌 = All of the emojis that popped up when I typed "wooing."
I am currently reading about Elizabeth Stuart, The Winter Queen. English and Scottish monarchy equals dysfunction.
No more than any other monarchy in fact compared to the Russians - the British one is quite civilised and straightforward
👑⚔️👑 I'm surprised at how weak Henry's position appeared. Familial nothing, no pull. Still proved to be a dangerous game.
🦄🦁 I have ancestors on both sides, as well as Welsh and Irish. However, I feel a strong pull toward Scotland. I always wondered how the Scottish and French came to be so close. Do you have a video about that?
Because they're both mortal enemies of the English, I believe.
This has always been, to me, one of the big "What ifs" in history. What if Edward and Mary Queen of Scots had managed to get married? Of course Edward would still have passed away, and maybe they would have had an heir or not. What kind of Queen of England and Scotland would Mary have made? And what of the future we know of - such as the Battle of Culloden - what kind of alternate reality might have been? We all love our Elizabeth I, and can't imagine history without her, but I do wonder about this might-have-been scenario. It would have changed absolutely everything.
🦄🦄🦄 👸 🤴 🏴🏴🏴 💍 Thank you for your clear explanation of the Rough Wooing. Love waking up on Saturday to Dr Kat (🇦🇺)!