Recently Solomon Nelson and Lyle McDonald did a 3 hour epic compilation summarizing many of the issues that I've also raised with Dr. Mike over the years. They did a great job with it! Lyle McDonald Critiques Mike Israetel's Fitness Advice and Bodybuilding Career th-cam.com/video/n1eLqbQPCz0/w-d-xo.html Also check out my books, they'll steer ya right! Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates)www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts) www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters) www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula Can check the site for full Tables Of Contents of each book. Appreciate the support!
I would be curious what you think of Matt Irving. He is a big proponent of intensity but, ONLY does arm work for medical reasons and has a great physique.
1:17 19 inch natural arms BTW, 🤨I would have thought those tren 🧪cycles would have netted capped front delts, guess not. 😏Barbell/kettlebell front raises.
It's not amnesia, is deliberate. Every fitness TH-camr or influencer does it. Can you imagine how boring and repetitive their videos would be if they just did the same exercises over and over again. The viewer is always looking for that new "miracle" exercise, the thing we've not already been doing, to "maximise" our results! When in reality, sticking to the basics and not overcomplicating it is the real way forward. But that doesn't make for great content does it? 😂
Dr. Mike is a really curious phenomenon. He obviously knows a lotta stuff and has brought huge awareness to basic important training principles with many really high quality videos. Nowadays I feel like he has said everything important and tries to make up new stuff and specific exercise executions that don't really make sense and that (should) contradict his own principles. Also yes, definitely some strange ego problem.
I think that's just an issue with fitness influencers in general you reach a point where you kinda have already said everything that need to be so you gotta do something to stay relevant
@boop733 You're right, It's more apparent in some and less in others. Most things have been said already, a lot is either trying to reinvent the wheel or criticising exactly that. (This video...)
He even tries to rename existing exercises and act like he came up with them, doing Lu Raises in a video and insistently calling them "Super ROM Lateral Raises".
he's been saying that for a while. he went to school for this stuff ya, but i feel like i need him to go more in depth about his opinion here. i want him to make a video and reference studies or some actual data on the topic or at least explain his rational. the fact he hasn't feels like such a missed opportunity
Mike has criticized so many people for not training "optimally" for hypertrophy when they're not even focusing on hypertrophy that it's about time he gets called out.
Right. His retarded ass was saying David Goggins needs to change his pullups for more gains. Then he critiques how athletes train even though he waddles when he walks.
Great response. The elbows forward on overhead extensions cue is probably the most concerning, the majority of lifters already mess up overhead extension technique and I’m sure this will just make things even worse. And then to do a JM style press where the shoulder flexes and elbow extends, it’s just so redundant.
I want to understand this because apparantly I dont. Always did them with elbows in and got great response in form of pump, soreness and growth exclusively in the long head and I always keep the elbows still. So up and in and only the forearm moves with a V attachment. Every time I did it with flared elbows with ropes and without I never got the same response. So is feeling overrated like in Preacher Curls? Cant really figure out where I am wrong with this movement. Appreciate any help with this
And to think dr Mike has said (correctly) that squats don’t work the hamstrings because they contract and extend, causing no change in muscle length during the movement… ridiculous
If anything I think I actually instictively lean back against the bench and open up even more at bottom of the range of motion lol (seated overhead extensions)
@@hoid1064don't forget how individual anatomy plays into this. Some people physically can't do arms in because of elbow pain or their shoulder socket now allowing much internal rotation. If you feel great with elbows in, that's totally fine and it doesn't really matter as long as you're not experiencing any pain. As for the preacher curl, that's because of the resistance profile being in an arc, making it much more difficult at the bottom like the T bar row. This is a good thing, and is why preacher curls are popular. The overratedness comes from all this optimization stuff probably contributing to 10% improvement while the 90% were achievable with normal curls and rows.
We can clearly see the difference in behavior between Jeff, who is humble, ready to learn, make compromises, listen, and trying to have honnest discussion about bodybuilding. And Mike just trying to show dominance and looking like a fool in the process
@@Ventryx That was in reference to his world record deadlift, not some random set to failure. That's the problem with what Mike says: it's not completely wrong, but it's completely out of place. That's because while there is a psychological significance to the last one or two percent of strength, it doesn't matter in a normal set to failure, because that last few percent of strength equates to maybe a tenth of a repetition. But it can make the difference between lifting 490 or 500 kg.
It's funny that you say that. I've found that even in GVS' critique, he agreed with most of what Dr. Mike said. I think at this point, minor differences in training are being over-emphasized. That's probably because clickbait gets views, so everyone has to use it. I doubt as many people would tune in to a "Dr. Mike/Jeff Nippard Arm Day- Minor Changes" video.
@@stratotele12i would agree...geoff did already suprisingly lot of anti mike vids haha...its kind of weird if you consider how much true bs is there...but maybe calling out obvious stuff isnt interesting anymore
I'm glad for rare people like you with staunch integrity, who always try to give information that is correct, in a helpful way. This is what everyone needs to get better. Keep it up mate
I was getting my food ready while already playing the video. The moment Mike said "Focussing on the long head of the triceps is massively overrated", I just completely stopped what I was doing and went "...huh?". Had to pause and play that s**t back, I mean... what is this man talking about...?
it's honestly true from my experience, you should obviously do overhead work at some point in your training but anything elbow extension will still work all three heads of the triceps very well. i just don't think overhead extensions are the end-all-be-all when it comes to growing your long head.
@@pouihurmen Putting your long head in the deep stretch is absolutely superior if you're trying to grow it. Which anyone who wants to grow their arms should do. Do other triceps exercises also work the long head? Yes, absolutely. But that's like saying pullups and rows work the biceps, so there's no need for dedicated biceps exercises. For quality triceps, get those elbows up there.
At tale of survival of the fittest in body building commentry. After many years of following your channels, where you are sort of a middle ground between the science and bro intuition, I've come to realize that you are one of the best channels out there. I'm almost 50, and am in now in peak condition, strongest I've ever been, and I've taken many lesson from many people but I've realized that quite bit has been from your channel. So I really do wish you continued success and growth in your channel. I love your vids of pushing hard on your sets. Something I try to do on my working set (I tend to pyramid up to a single working set to failure with negative or MYOS focusing on the negatives, full body, twice a week only) and then focus on recovery.
I just finished Solomon Nelson and Lyle McDonald 3 hour video about Dr.Mike and jumped straight into this one. So I was prepared for the "RIR" comment haha. great video as usual!
That 3 hour video was nuts! I've been watching a ton of Lyle's stuff these past few months and have learned SO MUCH it's unreal. I love that he exposes the bullshit while explaining his rationale
@@Issvor It's amazing how the whole "science based" community turned its back on Lyle. I watched an old research roundtable on Nippard's channel and I literally couldn't believe how much they used to glaze him when his name came up. A lot of them just stabbed him in the back it seems like
Glad but not at all surprised to hear this take by you. My impression is that Dr Mike has many insecurities and compensates by being overly critical towards people(that often are way more impressive than him) leaning on I Have The Best Science™. I started sympathizing more with him and actually really respected the honesty about his strong negative psychological side effects from steroid abuse but then I saw his video about Kyriakos Grizzly. Apart from disagreeing with a lot of his perspective on bodybuilding, his attitude in that video is what I dislike most about him; pretending like it's all in good fun while subtly putting down and insinuating things about an awesome guy that is what he is not - very comfortable with himself. Jeff did good 💪💪
@@UncommonSense Very true indeed. Not everything Grizzly does is full rom optimal, but that doesn't mean that it isn't optimal for his goals. His methods work for him because he is still stronger than 99% of the world's strongest men. But the final nail in the coffin for me was watching his philosophy channel.
@@Anwnssnsiziwjwwje Dude literally made a vid saying that different races have different levels of intelligence. He also said that one of his main philosophical influences is Ayn Rand, who basically tried to convince people that they are not being selfish enough. I am not against all the capitalist stuff and his hyper-optimism in future tech, but I cannot support this. His fitness channel is undeniably mostly good and I have benefitted from his content.
The fact that mike thinks going to failure is pure mental just shows he never really achieved true muscular failure but it was his brain stopping him every time.
A lot of experts say bullshit. Imo it could be a possibility but there's no evidence for his claim, ergo it's not true as far as we know.@HannibalKing-e7e
@HannibalKing-e7e You can clearly see he's been carried away by his emotions over the last few moths. He said he wants to k*ll people that leave negative comments under his videos. That's a clear indication of mental/emotional issues and insecurity, most likely exaggerated by the juice. Decide for yourself if you want to listen to such person.
Geoff your analysis here is as spot on as I have ever heard. I felt the same watching Mike’s video this week, and thought, I must be way off the mark.. “back pumps from bicep curls?”, “forget the long head” “no use in an arm day” what??? And his lying bicep curl intimates a rings movement, great for bulletproofing the tendon
Think of unsheathing your dual katanas mounted on your back in an X-shape when doing tricep extensions using ropes. I find this analogy to be better lol.
there's actually an overhead extension variation called the katana extension or katana something. same idea, but using both cables crossbody behind you instead of a rope with one cable directly behind you. just grab the cable by the ball thing with no attachment. and tbh idk if this would work on a cable crossover but you could try lol
There's probably some truth to Mike's claims of psychological fatigue being a factor, given the feats people have performed in stressful situations, but it seems to be muscular fatigue as the main factor. It doesn't seem to be neurological either because I can still tense my muscles after failure, and if you've ever been depressed (medically) you'll know what psychologically being unable to move your body feels like vs being physically unable to.
10:22 is absolute fire. Jeff almost directly calling Mike out and he gets such a cold response back. Love it. Also GVS thank you so much for delivering honest content, no other big channels seem to be doing this.
Isn't that just perfect evidence that all this slow light weight stretch bullshit is really just avoiding hard training? You can't call something an rpe 10 just because it hurts. If you can do 6 more reps on a bodybuilding movement just by "focusing harder", you're doing a warmup set
@@o-neilexactly, I actually tried this on a set of curls( I almost always take them to failure so I knew I did last time) I got really amped up going to a dark place ect and i got 2 more reps than the week before, I usually get 1-2 more reps on those curls week to week anyway so like best case I gained 1 rep by hyping myself up. If you gain like 6 reps then sorry you weren’t training to failure or frankly anywhere close to it, 6 reps from failure on a lot of lifts doesn’t even feel like you did anything.
Honestly you have come so far these last 3 years it is unbelievable the number of extra gains you unlocked by training hard and really focusing on specialization. Biceps are looking great and your triceps blow my mind for a natural.
19 inches! Holy damn! "Science-based" sounds like a downgrade compared to just regular based. You'd think a regular approach (for someone like Jeff Nippard) would include science but also personal experience, coaching experience, expert opinion, tradition, etc. Honing in on just the science sounds like a worse way of doing it. That "pull" cue for the long head is a cool one. I'm going to try that.
Yeah when I do an overhead extension I imagine that I'm unsheathing a pair of swords from my back, not trying to turn it into a close-grip behind the neck press.
@@keytonbush3925 not trying to be a mike fan boy but that is going to be how genetics works at the end of the day. Geoff is a genetic freak for arms clearly and has used his knowledge to help try and maximize that genetic potential
@@glennmayer469 Imo it's how steroids work. I don't like the steroid ogre look. It makes people look obese, even when they have unnaturally low bodyfat. Maybe GVS has better genes, but he also trains harder, and is natural, both of which I believe contribute to him looking better
Dr. Mike would have been right if he said the Long Head gets hit in movements like Lat Prayers and PULLOVERS. I don’t know how he missed that quite honestly. Also, I’ve actually found gymnastic rings to be seriously underrated for Tricep Growth, because you can really easily and safely mechanically dropset movements like a JM Press directly into Extensions and PJR Pullovers, and they’re pretty Lengthened-Biased.
Been watching a lot of Bugenhagen for 2-3 months and, I honestly hate this “science based” training shit now. Yes I understand it, you want the best bang for your buck, but sometimes just horse cocking the weight is the best thing to do. Who likes to train “science based” 24/7? 5 seconds on the eccentric and then 10 seconds on the concentric, there is no way you actually enjoy training. Just go out there and hoist some heavy weight with good form, that’s what needs to be said in the science based community. They’re too worried about getting “jacked” the fastest way, it’s NOT FAST, you have to learn to enjoy your time to the top. Also good to see Nippard training hard like how all the elite naturals do. Makes it wayyyy more enjoyable to watch too
I like this turnaround with Jeff. Might start watching his content again more. Yeah I dunno. I tried the science based workout shit for a while and barely got anywhere. I did like a 6 month period of intense intentional bulking and lifting like an animal and gained like 8 pounds of muscle. I definitely believe as long as you have good training knowledge and know how not to hurt yourself you can get far off of just lifting heavy ass weight. Also if you don't have the psychology to push yourself good luck (I'm always amazed how many reps I would see people from failure in the gym)
10:15 why is Mike gaslighting Jeff like that, he's just making stupid claims at this point, even though i started following RP way before they blew up like in late 2020, i'm slowly starting to take some of his advices with a grain of salt and cast a more critical eye on him especially with recent Solomon & Lyle McDonald vid
Haha I watched RP's video and thought "oh god I need GVS to respond to this" because I felt like there was so much wrong with it. One of the weirdest parts was when Jeff asked if people should have an arm day, and they said no and gave a not awful answer, but then Jeff asked about prioritizing them and Jared goes "you could make an argument that it would be even worse to have an arm day if you want to prioritize arms" LIKE WHAT
His logic for that actually made sense though, there’s nothing that says biceps and triceps recover at the same rate so they could have different “optimal” training frequencies
@@samcremin1486 Seriously, I swear people in this comment section just have terrible listening comprehension skill. They hear half a sentence and immediately let their gut reaction completely take over their logical reasoning. It's honestly quite pathetic.
@@kc12394 This whole thing is masturbation. Mike has gotten so big that its an industry to nitpick him without using your brain, while all his content is something where you are supposed to use your brain.
@@samcremin1486but biceps and triceps both recover faster than other muscles. So if you have let's say 2 upper days a week you can't get a 3rd one because your back and chest will be recovering. But you can get an arm day easily
Added 2 arm days based on your recommendations and my arms are growing way more than before. I think my arms in general suck and are pretty hard to grow, but I'm now seeing consistent progress following your program and hitting them more often and on their own.
The only major difference that has lead to increased growth for Mike in the last couple of years is upping the dose and using harsher compounds. As a consequence, his training is based primarily around these injury prevention concepts like exceedingly slow eccentrics and lighter weights. The reasoning then becomes that these training changes are therefore superior, when of course the key difference is his stronger gear use.
I'm done calling Mike Israetel a doctor. He has a PhD in proving bigger and faster athletes are bigger and faster.... to now suggest the triceps are getting lots of work in pull ups and rows, this is getting ridiculous. Worse content every video
@@dogguy5405 That's a bit too much...at least Mike does not lift fake weights. He also does not demonize any exercise as being "bad", rather it may just not be fit for a certain individual's anatomy.
@slee2695 yes, that's generally how it works. But progress is very slow. It's much better to believe this, as we see far too many young people with the mentality of: I'll start taking gear after a few years of lifting when I plateau
As a guy that trains for strength and power, but also takes my ancillary hypertrophy work reaaally seriously, I can attest that bar speed doesn't change that much when approaching failure. I have trained for years to learn to move heavy weight fast, so a lighter weight for 6+ reps I can kind of force-explode even when approaching mechanical failure. What noticeably gets worse really close to failure is the sticking point, but just as a momentary slow-down that gets harder and harder to overcome. Honestly I usually fail my hypertrophy sets because I can no longer control the eccentric (the bar or cable literally almost falls out of my hands) or I physically cannot complete a rep, but there's never really any noticeable increase in overall grind. Mike also used to train for strength for many years (I think before he hopped on gear) so maybe that plays a role?
Fully agree on the lying biceps curl. As a rockclimber who dabbled in gymnastics, they seem more like a 'progression lift' for pelican curls or straight arm work.
If it's only difficult within a couple degrees, then completely easy for 95% of the movement, you are pretty much doing an isometric, which is known to grow ZERO MUSCLE. These people are science based but not evidence based. There's no evidence exercises like that grow muscle, but there's science.
The more you interact with PhDs the less respect you have for them in general as you witness the atrocious gaps in their knowledge and cognitive biases that they have combined with the sheer arrogance of "call me Doctor."
@@zerrodefex True. People who get PhDs are not necessarily smart or knowledgeable (even about their own field). Most could not find a job after graduating and therefore had to do something else. Source: I am a PhD student.
A PhD means literally nothing. It just means someone did some random research into something. Doesn’t even mean they were ever right about anything or ever made anything work in real life
Someone said that Mike Isratel is turning into the new Jeff Cavaliere and its stuck to me since that he has absolutely no idea how to train naturals anymore. Its sad to see they might be right
If you're new to fitness and trust Mike based on his scientific branding and demeanor, you can fall for his act. But once you actually read from some people who don't bastardize sports science all the time, it becomes odd that he almost never cites specific studies for any of the numerous, numerous claims he makes. And that nobody in sports science is using all these terms like "Raw Stimulus Magnitude". What does that even actually mean? Seriously, Mike is much closer to the gym bro mindset than being a guy who focuses on science only (not that you need to be, but he certainly loves collecting the authority points constantly referring to science nets you).
The one that put me off immediately was when he claimed that body types do not exist and that it is scientifically proven to be the case I’m like mfer YOU have a bad body type yourself! Do you not have eyes!? But he does have eyes he’s just a very unauthentic disingenuous person.
The last straw for me with Dr Mike was when he was watching a video of John cena clearly doing trap 3 raises and then calling them front raises. Guy is lost in the sauce
Dr mike is an overhyped clown who lost his authenticity and makes funny faces tryna be edgy to boost his content. Jeff is over hated but seems like a good dude
As you said, hats off to Jeff, he’s really pushing those sets hard now. The really annoying thing with Dr. Mike is he kinda firmly planted his flag in the “stimulus to fatigue ratio” camp, such that it’s an ever-green reason for why he doesn’t train hard: “nah bro, any more reps and it would’ve been too much fatigue”. Rinse and repeat.
fellow big arm guy: Totally agree. The majority of my bicep work is for the long head with strict form (no swinging) hammer curls, multiple sets and rep ranges, plus drop sets, with each set to failure (where arms can no longer physically move). I then add in short head work with slow eccentric dumbbell (pinky up) preacher curls, to failure, multiple sets as well. For those I do one arm at a time, and finish on the last eccentric, so I can spot myself with the off arm.
My respect for Jeff has gone up over the years and gone down for Dr. Mike. It's a little disappointing because some of his advice is great, especially his older content.
I watched this video and then followed the rabbit hole (via comments) to Solomon Nelson's 3 hour video. I have been watching Mike Israetel's videos on RP for 6 months to a year - almost every day! I stopped listening to music while lifting and listened to Mike's lectures instead. Your video (and Solomon's video with Lyle) has me questioning a lot of things now. I'm tired of being grifted - but maybe that's more of a "me" problem than a "them" problem. Thanks for the video! 😵
You can't know what you don't know. Mike is good at luring in inexperienced lifters with his manner of speaking, he can talk about basic stuff and make it sound like it's something profound with his word selection and tone of voice. As you get more advanced it will be easier for you to see the bs, because you'll have an experience and theoretical knowledge to rely on.
Dude. The body moves how the body moves. Each individual based on their physiology will feel their named lifts differently and has to adjust accordingly. You atill have to learn the lifts and variation. Outside of that and knowing if something is safe enough or not, you dont need much rlse and certainly not these influencers, aside from ideas for lifting and safety. This back and forth drama and criticism of each other is actually meaningless as its only an ego booster for these folks.
You laugh, but when there IS axial load, there IS a degree of axial fatigue. Why wouldn't it be? Specially if the day before you back is sore from leg day of something.
Here's what I didn't understand about mike. He mentioned axial fatigue from cable curls and yet on Eugene Teo's channel they have a recent leg day routine where the have them do sumo deadlifts for glutes followed by rdl for hamstring and then hack squats for quads. I mean, with that much axial loading...you won't even be able to squat after doing those 2 hinge patterns.
Solomon Nelson made a 3hr documentary of why Mike Israetel is sadly not a reliable source of information for most lifters. A lot of the clips he used I had never seen before, and tbh I was kinda dumbfounded. Not only that but the level of shameless pride and arrogance really put me off Mike as a person. He seems to have major issues. We all have problems, but Mike's are very unashamedly public.
His comment about rows and pull ups working the long head got me super fucking confused. Upper body pulling is my strongest movement pattern and I have probably done thousands of pull ups, yet I HAD to work my triceps with a long head focus to bring them up both aesthetically and to help my press work.
This is why I don't care about someone's degree. I care about their results. Mike is always making snide comments about how he is "educated" but that's just an appeal to authority that people use when they don't have an argument or know what they're talking about.
@@marturomano What a pointless comment. The person you were replying to never said pull-ups and rows didn't hit the long head at all, so I don't see why you felt the need to tell them that pull-ups and rows do hit the long head.
I agree with Jeff. Either I can do the rep or I can't. But unlike these bodybuilding guys I never go to failure on purpose. But I do occasionally by accident so I know what it feels like. I get like 80% of the muscle growth without ever going beyond RPE8 on purpose so I prefer it. I never do isolation lifts at all. Never ever, just S/B/D, variants and some pulls.
6:40 It commented this on the video. The long head is bi-articular. If you let your elbows drop forward during the overhead tricep extension, you're reducing the stretch on the long head. Defeating the purpose of the exercise. It's shortening on one end while lengthening at the other.
Dude, Israetel has a philosophy channel and he literally just vomits things like Peterson. He has the mentality of 14 year old: www.youtube.com/@MikeIsraetelMakingProgress
So glad you tackle renaissance periodization. They say so much wrong stuff but no one wants to risk missing out on lucrative collabs with them because their TH-cam is so big. Really shows that GVS is real.
I have to disagree some on the reps in reserve topic. I do think it can be different depending on your state of mind. Our psychological state of our mind will heavily influence how many reps we can get. Heck, even level of overall restfulness / stress levels and things like is there enough readily available energy and or foods consumed prior will impact performance. Surely RIR can differ, sometimes dramatically, day to day. I feel like these strong disagreements on Mikes philosophy stem more from misunderstandings of his stance. For example, he’s stated and is pretty open in prior videos that he used to use the all out fully amped up training style but it ended up wrecking his body too much. This is the whole reason he is so big on finding ways to stimulate the muscle without tons of fatigue generation and I find his methods useful as someone who also has pushed beyond what my physical & mental health could maintain.
I’m not old enough to where it matters yet but I can’t imagine going to the gym and *not* training to failure on 90%+ of my exercises. It’s like the whole point of going.
The biggest way Mike had stimulated muscle growth is his copius amounts of gear. And I have never heard anyone say that RIR can’t differ day to day, it seems like you just constructed a strawman when peoples main point has been that Mike doesn’t train hard which is just true.
@newuser689 I was the same way, always going psychotically all out on my reps & sets. Joints and other signals from my body started to not be possible to ignore. Been over the years switching over to more focused workout techniques as RP suggests. Not saying the time spent going all out has no benefit, but I will say my best results have come more recent by increasing focus. If I’d known this in the past I would have likely started off the RP way. Certain connective tissues in my body are reminded regularly the abuse they went through. I’m nearly 36 by the way.
@@movestattoo4561 The implication being spoken of in this video is that there is only 1 rir, your either training hard or your not, at 1 rep in reserve or not. I think this is BS. There are ways to train hard that don’t stress connective tissue and generate as much overall fatigue. It’s a skill that needs to be trained and perfected over time. A good skill to have if you want to be in this game for the long-term. Unless your made of indestructible diamonds, in which case, carry on 🫡
Recently Solomon Nelson and Lyle McDonald did a 3 hour epic compilation summarizing many of the issues that I've also raised with Dr. Mike over the years. They did a great job with it!
Lyle McDonald Critiques Mike Israetel's Fitness Advice and Bodybuilding Career
th-cam.com/video/n1eLqbQPCz0/w-d-xo.html
Also check out my books, they'll steer ya right!
Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates)www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy
Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula
Can check the site for full Tables Of Contents of each book. Appreciate the support!
thinks this one deserves a solomon nelson shout out
@@m00nkiid good call, I'll add it in
I would be curious what you think of Matt Irving. He is a big proponent of intensity but, ONLY does arm work for medical reasons and has a great physique.
1:17 19 inch natural arms BTW, 🤨I would have thought those tren 🧪cycles would have netted capped front delts, guess not. 😏Barbell/kettlebell front raises.
@@GVS Thanks for the shoutout Geoffrey!
Dr. Mike's next video: "The Bicep Curls that EXPLODED My Chest!"
Pelican curls lol
I don't know who coined the term, but I think this is "lifting amnesia". Some guys seem to have forgotten what got them big arms in the first place.
It was fazlifts who coined it i think
The absolute goat, Faz from Fazlifts
Impression Management.
It's not amnesia, is deliberate.
Every fitness TH-camr or influencer does it. Can you imagine how boring and repetitive their videos would be if they just did the same exercises over and over again.
The viewer is always looking for that new "miracle" exercise, the thing we've not already been doing, to "maximise" our results! When in reality, sticking to the basics and not overcomplicating it is the real way forward. But that doesn't make for great content does it? 😂
@@tommymecousinlostmecar4165 I don't think Mike would forget what got him big arms I mean he probably injects daily
Dr. Mike is a really curious phenomenon. He obviously knows a lotta stuff and has brought huge awareness to basic important training principles with many really high quality videos.
Nowadays I feel like he has said everything important and tries to make up new stuff and specific exercise executions that don't really make sense and that (should) contradict his own principles. Also yes, definitely some strange ego problem.
I think that's just an issue with fitness influencers in general you reach a point where you kinda have already said everything that need to be so you gotta do something to stay relevant
@boop733 You're right, It's more apparent in some and less in others. Most things have been said already, a lot is either trying to reinvent the wheel or criticising exactly that. (This video...)
He even tries to rename existing exercises and act like he came up with them, doing Lu Raises in a video and insistently calling them "Super ROM Lateral Raises".
He bought into his own hype
I never thought he offered anything of value
Saying that rows hit the long head of your triceps "a ton" has to be one of the most bizarre shit I've heard this year. Wow. Just... Wow
Had to rewatch it a few times, yep.
he's been saying that for a while. he went to school for this stuff ya, but i feel like i need him to go more in depth about his opinion here. i want him to make a video and reference studies or some actual data on the topic or at least explain his rational. the fact he hasn't feels like such a missed opportunity
And that's a doctor saying that
Insane
Degree doesnt always mean that somebody is smart unfortunately
@@eutiger4789 he's less smart than a random white dude in China lol 😂
the guy who calls his arm workouts "bro days", explaining biomechanics to "science based" lifters
quite exquisite, and dare I say, based.
bias against science much?
Bias against charlatans who claims science @@ronintage
Much
@@ronintagedr Mike fangirl detected, opinion rejected
@@visebes9694 you literally have no idea what *any* of my positions are regarding *anything*, my dude
@@ronintage "I hecking love soyence!!!"
Mike has criticized so many people for not training "optimally" for hypertrophy when they're not even focusing on hypertrophy that it's about time he gets called out.
Right. His retarded ass was saying David Goggins needs to change his pullups for more gains. Then he critiques how athletes train even though he waddles when he walks.
Everyone is training for hypertrophy
I train for happiness @@KateWandless
@@thinkbuilder1780 you’d be happier if you grew and improved
@@KateWandless no I'm pretty happy with the way I do it
Great response. The elbows forward on overhead extensions cue is probably the most concerning, the majority of lifters already mess up overhead extension technique and I’m sure this will just make things even worse. And then to do a JM style press where the shoulder flexes and elbow extends, it’s just so redundant.
I want to understand this because apparantly I dont.
Always did them with elbows in and got great response in form of pump, soreness and growth exclusively in the long head and I always keep the elbows still.
So up and in and only the forearm moves with a V attachment.
Every time I did it with flared elbows with ropes and without I never got the same response.
So is feeling overrated like in Preacher Curls?
Cant really figure out where I am wrong with this movement.
Appreciate any help with this
And to think dr Mike has said (correctly) that squats don’t work the hamstrings because they contract and extend, causing no change in muscle length during the movement… ridiculous
@@hoid1064interested in this too
If anything I think I actually instictively lean back against the bench and open up even more at bottom of the range of motion lol (seated overhead extensions)
@@hoid1064don't forget how individual anatomy plays into this. Some people physically can't do arms in because of elbow pain or their shoulder socket now allowing much internal rotation. If you feel great with elbows in, that's totally fine and it doesn't really matter as long as you're not experiencing any pain.
As for the preacher curl, that's because of the resistance profile being in an arc, making it much more difficult at the bottom like the T bar row. This is a good thing, and is why preacher curls are popular. The overratedness comes from all this optimization stuff probably contributing to 10% improvement while the 90% were achievable with normal curls and rows.
I think people run out of stuff to talk about and just start making shit up
Mike is definitely at that stage now. When he did the 'take a month off from the gym' video he officially jumped the shark.
Athlean X syndrome
@@outlimboed he was at that stage a couple years ago
100%
Well at least half of his videos are just gay jokes anyway
Jeff dipping into Van Wyck flashbacks on that tricep extension
🤦🏾🤣😭😭
Brooooo 😂
We can clearly see the difference in behavior between Jeff, who is humble, ready to learn, make compromises, listen, and trying to have honnest discussion about bodybuilding. And Mike just trying to show dominance and looking like a fool in the process
Jeff want to do everything to learn and Mike want to learn nothing.
Jeff is a nice guy
@@gustavovalverde6226*good guy
i appreciate the cheeky bicep flex every 5-6 sentences
lmaoo
The sentences are there to punctuate the physique, make no mistake.
Idk if dr mike needs a therapist or what, but I dont need to put my mind in "violent war mode" to get to failure
😂
Yeah I prefer like what Eddie Hall says "I imagine that my kid is trapped under that bar."
was not is point tho was it
@@Ventryx That was in reference to his world record deadlift, not some random set to failure. That's the problem with what Mike says: it's not completely wrong, but it's completely out of place. That's because while there is a psychological significance to the last one or two percent of strength, it doesn't matter in a normal set to failure, because that last few percent of strength equates to maybe a tenth of a repetition. But it can make the difference between lifting 490 or 500 kg.
yeah what happened to putting on some rocky montage music and just training hard, not everything has to be about violent soviet union childhood days.
You were able to see the holes in Doug Brignole’s training philosophy, and you clearly see the holes in Mike Isratel’s. 💯📝📝📝
Thanks man, the truth eventually comes to light!
Damn the OG by himself, hey CJ
Wild OG Chris Jones spotted
The proportion of serious lifters respecting Dr. Mike is rapidly decreasing
his ego got to him
It's funny that you say that. I've found that even in GVS' critique, he agreed with most of what Dr. Mike said. I think at this point, minor differences in training are being over-emphasized. That's probably because clickbait gets views, so everyone has to use it. I doubt as many people would tune in to a "Dr. Mike/Jeff Nippard Arm Day- Minor Changes" video.
@@stratotele12i would agree...geoff did already suprisingly lot of anti mike vids haha...its kind of weird if you consider how much true bs is there...but maybe calling out obvious stuff isnt interesting anymore
He said himself that roids make you dumb
Mikes an idiot lol
Mike jizraetal has trained at level 4 and so he gets the pass. Once you’ve trained at level four will never be the same.
Huh?
I just turked all over my face, love your content Greg 👍
Shut up
Little Mike only plays lvl 4 for the camera lol.
Greg wtf are you going on about
I'm glad for rare people like you with staunch integrity, who always try to give information that is correct, in a helpful way. This is what everyone needs to get better. Keep it up mate
The one thing that unites GVS and Gregging my doucette is having beef with Dr. Mike
I was getting my food ready while already playing the video. The moment Mike said "Focussing on the long head of the triceps is massively overrated", I just completely stopped what I was doing and went "...huh?". Had to pause and play that s**t back, I mean... what is this man talking about...?
it's honestly true from my experience, you should obviously do overhead work at some point in your training but anything elbow extension will still work all three heads of the triceps very well. i just don't think overhead extensions are the end-all-be-all when it comes to growing your long head.
SCIENCE!
Gotta get that long head rock hard!
@@pouihurmen Putting your long head in the deep stretch is absolutely superior if you're trying to grow it. Which anyone who wants to grow their arms should do. Do other triceps exercises also work the long head? Yes, absolutely. But that's like saying pullups and rows work the biceps, so there's no need for dedicated biceps exercises. For quality triceps, get those elbows up there.
I think long head focused tricep work is slightly overrated but not because "pulling movements work it a ton".
My criteria for how close a person is to me is if I reply to them during arm supersets
guess I have no friends
At tale of survival of the fittest in body building commentry. After many years of following your channels, where you are sort of a middle ground between the science and bro intuition, I've come to realize that you are one of the best channels out there. I'm almost 50, and am in now in peak condition, strongest I've ever been, and I've taken many lesson from many people but I've realized that quite bit has been from your channel. So I really do wish you continued success and growth in your channel. I love your vids of pushing hard on your sets. Something I try to do on my working set (I tend to pyramid up to a single working set to failure with negative or MYOS focusing on the negatives, full body, twice a week only) and then focus on recovery.
Appreciate that and glad I could help!
Dr.Mike has lived long enough to see himself become the villain.
mmm, why do i find this cathartic
Arms are looking disgusting btw.
Thank you my friend!
I just finished Solomon Nelson and Lyle McDonald 3 hour video about Dr.Mike and jumped straight into this one. So I was prepared for the "RIR" comment haha. great video as usual!
You know the lore!
That video was so entertaining
That 3 hour video was nuts! I've been watching a ton of Lyle's stuff these past few months and have learned SO MUCH it's unreal. I love that he exposes the bullshit while explaining his rationale
Lyle grilled him pretty ruthlessly LOL
@@Issvor It's amazing how the whole "science based" community turned its back on Lyle. I watched an old research roundtable on Nippard's channel and I literally couldn't believe how much they used to glaze him when his name came up. A lot of them just stabbed him in the back it seems like
Mike lying out his ass when he knew he was wrong was hilarious
Narcissistic personality disorder
Glad but not at all surprised to hear this take by you. My impression is that Dr Mike has many insecurities and compensates by being overly critical towards people(that often are way more impressive than him) leaning on I Have The Best Science™. I started sympathizing more with him and actually really respected the honesty about his strong negative psychological side effects from steroid abuse but then I saw his video about Kyriakos Grizzly. Apart from disagreeing with a lot of his perspective on bodybuilding, his attitude in that video is what I dislike most about him; pretending like it's all in good fun while subtly putting down and insinuating things about an awesome guy that is what he is not - very comfortable with himself. Jeff did good 💪💪
@@UncommonSense Very true indeed. Not everything Grizzly does is full rom optimal, but that doesn't mean that it isn't optimal for his goals. His methods work for him because he is still stronger than 99% of the world's strongest men. But the final nail in the coffin for me was watching his philosophy channel.
@@Anwnssnsiziwjwwje Dude literally made a vid saying that different races have different levels of intelligence. He also said that one of his main philosophical influences is Ayn Rand, who basically tried to convince people that they are not being selfish enough. I am not against all the capitalist stuff and his hyper-optimism in future tech, but I cannot support this. His fitness channel is undeniably mostly good and I have benefitted from his content.
@@nitish2049 Damn maybe I should watch his philosophy channel, sounds good
@@nitish2049God damn. Wasn't expecting Dr. Mike to be racist.
@@nitish2049 Mike is right about that though
The fact that mike thinks going to failure is pure mental just shows he never really achieved true muscular failure but it was his brain stopping him every time.
true lmao mentality is not everything, i get it you can get all hyped up and crazy but you just won't magically surpass your body's capabilities.
shows he hasn't learned since the lyle mcdonald rebuttal
>his brain
You mean his trauma lol
A lot of experts say bullshit. Imo it could be a possibility but there's no evidence for his claim, ergo it's not true as far as we know.@HannibalKing-e7e
@HannibalKing-e7e You can clearly see he's been carried away by his emotions over the last few moths. He said he wants to k*ll people that leave negative comments under his videos. That's a clear indication of mental/emotional issues and insecurity, most likely exaggerated by the juice. Decide for yourself if you want to listen to such person.
Geoff your analysis here is as spot on as I have ever heard. I felt the same watching Mike’s video this week, and thought, I must be way off the mark.. “back pumps from bicep curls?”, “forget the long head” “no use in an arm day” what??? And his lying bicep curl intimates a rings movement, great for bulletproofing the tendon
Think of unsheathing your dual katanas mounted on your back in an X-shape when doing tricep extensions using ropes. I find this analogy to be better lol.
That'll work! (cooler too)
I will be mentally unsheating katanas for the rest of my life now lol
there's actually an overhead extension variation called the katana extension or katana something. same idea, but using both cables crossbody behind you instead of a rope with one cable directly behind you. just grab the cable by the ball thing with no attachment. and tbh idk if this would work on a cable crossover but you could try lol
You have to make a silent *tshing* sound erverytime while doing so @@lordoflobsters7254
Literally legendary queue right here
There's probably some truth to Mike's claims of psychological fatigue being a factor, given the feats people have performed in stressful situations, but it seems to be muscular fatigue as the main factor.
It doesn't seem to be neurological either because I can still tense my muscles after failure, and if you've ever been depressed (medically) you'll know what psychologically being unable to move your body feels like vs being physically unable to.
3:12 "sometimes getting head doesn't really matter" I have never felt so betrayed. unsubscribed.
Dr Mike is a very talented charlatan, I wasted a bunch of good lifting years listing to his advice. The Solomon Nelson vid was quite telling.
Thanks.
10:22 is absolute fire. Jeff almost directly calling Mike out and he gets such a cold response back. Love it.
Also GVS thank you so much for delivering honest content, no other big channels seem to be doing this.
Best takedown of Dr Mike yet. You have instant credibility since your arms totally dwarf his, and yet he’s on every drug on the planet.
the thing about ''goin to a place of war to get 5 more reps'' is ironically very very very unscientifically as it is unfalsifiable
Isn't that just perfect evidence that all this slow light weight stretch bullshit is really just avoiding hard training? You can't call something an rpe 10 just because it hurts. If you can do 6 more reps on a bodybuilding movement just by "focusing harder", you're doing a warmup set
@@o-neilexactly, I actually tried this on a set of curls( I almost always take them to failure so I knew I did last time) I got really amped up going to a dark place ect and i got 2 more reps than the week before, I usually get 1-2 more reps on those curls week to week anyway so like best case I gained 1 rep by hyping myself up. If you gain like 6 reps then sorry you weren’t training to failure or frankly anywhere close to it, 6 reps from failure on a lot of lifts doesn’t even feel like you did anything.
Honestly you have come so far these last 3 years it is unbelievable the number of extra gains you unlocked by training hard and really focusing on specialization. Biceps are looking great and your triceps blow my mind for a natural.
19 inches! Holy damn!
"Science-based" sounds like a downgrade compared to just regular based. You'd think a regular approach (for someone like Jeff Nippard) would include science but also personal experience, coaching experience, expert opinion, tradition, etc. Honing in on just the science sounds like a worse way of doing it.
That "pull" cue for the long head is a cool one. I'm going to try that.
Yeah when I do an overhead extension I imagine that I'm unsheathing a pair of swords from my back, not trying to turn it into a close-grip behind the neck press.
1:17 Geoffrey's triceps looks genuinely photoshopped if you freezeframe LMAO. If theres any dude Im trusting with arm advice its him.
Geoff, as a natural, just straight up has better, more aesthetic, arms than Mike, who is enhanced.
they’re absolutely insane. some baki lookin shit
Seems like he has bigger arms than famous old school bodybuilders like Steve Reeves and Reg Park
@@keytonbush3925 not trying to be a mike fan boy but that is going to be how genetics works at the end of the day. Geoff is a genetic freak for arms clearly and has used his knowledge to help try and maximize that genetic potential
@@glennmayer469 Imo it's how steroids work. I don't like the steroid ogre look. It makes people look obese, even when they have unnaturally low bodyfat.
Maybe GVS has better genes, but he also trains harder, and is natural, both of which I believe contribute to him looking better
Jared Feather: I think you get more of a stretch if you drop the scapula down.
Jeff Nippard: Source?
Great to have someone to put Dr Mike in his place he’s constantly glazed and he’s good but no prefect either, thanks Geoff 🙌
3:13 “Sometimes getting head doesn’t really matter”
-GVS, 2024
Complete lie, dear Geoffrey
Dr. Mike would have been right if he said the Long Head gets hit in movements like Lat Prayers and PULLOVERS. I don’t know how he missed that quite honestly.
Also, I’ve actually found gymnastic rings to be seriously underrated for Tricep Growth, because you can really easily and safely mechanically dropset movements like a JM Press directly into Extensions and PJR Pullovers, and they’re pretty Lengthened-Biased.
Been watching a lot of Bugenhagen for 2-3 months and, I honestly hate this “science based” training shit now. Yes I understand it, you want the best bang for your buck, but sometimes just horse cocking the weight is the best thing to do. Who likes to train “science based” 24/7? 5 seconds on the eccentric and then 10 seconds on the concentric, there is no way you actually enjoy training. Just go out there and hoist some heavy weight with good form, that’s what needs to be said in the science based community.
They’re too worried about getting “jacked” the fastest way, it’s NOT FAST, you have to learn to enjoy your time to the top.
Also good to see Nippard training hard like how all the elite naturals do. Makes it wayyyy more enjoyable to watch too
If you train like Dr Density, one becomes like dr density ( no source required )
I like this turnaround with Jeff. Might start watching his content again more. Yeah I dunno. I tried the science based workout shit for a while and barely got anywhere. I did like a 6 month period of intense intentional bulking and lifting like an animal and gained like 8 pounds of muscle. I definitely believe as long as you have good training knowledge and know how not to hurt yourself you can get far off of just lifting heavy ass weight. Also if you don't have the psychology to push yourself good luck (I'm always amazed how many reps I would see people from failure in the gym)
Bugez is roided up...try horsecocking weights as a natty
Milo is a strength guy too...he doesnt look good because he powerbuilds
NH exposed powerbuilding
I really thought that second to last extension was the final rep. Impressive that he got another one after that
YEP
10:15 why is Mike gaslighting Jeff like that, he's just making stupid claims at this point, even though i started following RP way before they blew up like in late 2020, i'm slowly starting to take some of his advices with a grain of salt and cast a more critical eye on him especially with recent Solomon & Lyle McDonald vid
Haha I watched RP's video and thought "oh god I need GVS to respond to this" because I felt like there was so much wrong with it. One of the weirdest parts was when Jeff asked if people should have an arm day, and they said no and gave a not awful answer, but then Jeff asked about prioritizing them and Jared goes "you could make an argument that it would be even worse to have an arm day if you want to prioritize arms" LIKE WHAT
His logic for that actually made sense though, there’s nothing that says biceps and triceps recover at the same rate so they could have different “optimal” training frequencies
@@samcremin1486 Seriously, I swear people in this comment section just have terrible listening comprehension skill. They hear half a sentence and immediately let their gut reaction completely take over their logical reasoning. It's honestly quite pathetic.
@@kc12394 This whole thing is masturbation. Mike has gotten so big that its an industry to nitpick him without using your brain, while all his content is something where you are supposed to use your brain.
@@samcremin1486but biceps and triceps both recover faster than other muscles. So if you have let's say 2 upper days a week you can't get a 3rd one because your back and chest will be recovering. But you can get an arm day easily
You didn't even see the video didn't you? What they said about the arm day makes perfect sense. Hell, people on this thread alone are alredy saying it
Added 2 arm days based on your recommendations and my arms are growing way more than before. I think my arms in general suck and are pretty hard to grow, but I'm now seeing consistent progress following your program and hitting them more often and on their own.
The only major difference that has lead to increased growth for Mike in the last couple of years is upping the dose and using harsher compounds. As a consequence, his training is based primarily around these injury prevention concepts like exceedingly slow eccentrics and lighter weights. The reasoning then becomes that these training changes are therefore superior, when of course the key difference is his stronger gear use.
I'm done calling Mike Israetel a doctor. He has a PhD in proving bigger and faster athletes are bigger and faster.... to now suggest the triceps are getting lots of work in pull ups and rows, this is getting ridiculous. Worse content every video
bro I swear Mike is the Athlean X of this generation
@@dogguy5405 Nah Athlean X at least cared about shoulders / elbows health, he literally says that in every facepull video lmfao.
@@dogguy5405 That's a bit too much...at least Mike does not lift fake weights. He also does not demonize any exercise as being "bad", rather it may just not be fit for a certain individual's anatomy.
19-inch arms natural is such a big flex... 😬
Natural...still making progress after 10 years...hmmm
@slee2695 yes, that's generally how it works. But progress is very slow.
It's much better to believe this, as we see far too many young people with the mentality of: I'll start taking gear after a few years of lifting when I plateau
@BionicGymBro i suppose...just the gains are so dramatic even as an advanced lifter...but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt
As a guy that trains for strength and power, but also takes my ancillary hypertrophy work reaaally seriously, I can attest that bar speed doesn't change that much when approaching failure.
I have trained for years to learn to move heavy weight fast, so a lighter weight for 6+ reps I can kind of force-explode even when approaching mechanical failure.
What noticeably gets worse really close to failure is the sticking point, but just as a momentary slow-down that gets harder and harder to overcome.
Honestly I usually fail my hypertrophy sets because I can no longer control the eccentric (the bar or cable literally almost falls out of my hands) or I physically cannot complete a rep, but there's never really any noticeable increase in overall grind.
Mike also used to train for strength for many years (I think before he hopped on gear) so maybe that plays a role?
So funny to see them actually start bickering. I don't think anyone's ever told Dr.mike that he's wrong
Mike responds to criticism with the emotional maturity of an thirteen year old narcissist.
Fully agree on the lying biceps curl. As a rockclimber who dabbled in gymnastics, they seem more like a 'progression lift' for pelican curls or straight arm work.
Yep exactly. Something to build you up gradually for a more advanced skill that is too risky to attempt initially.
If it's only difficult within a couple degrees, then completely easy for 95% of the movement, you are pretty much doing an isometric, which is known to grow ZERO MUSCLE. These people are science based but not evidence based.
There's no evidence exercises like that grow muscle, but there's science.
Mike "I have a phd in exercise science yet I don't know how the triceps works" Israetel.
The more you interact with PhDs the less respect you have for them in general as you witness the atrocious gaps in their knowledge and cognitive biases that they have combined with the sheer arrogance of "call me Doctor."
@@zerrodefex True. People who get PhDs are not necessarily smart or knowledgeable (even about their own field). Most could not find a job after graduating and therefore had to do something else. Source: I am a PhD student.
@d3f3kt57 Phd in what? Im a Phd lecturer
@@slee2695 chemical engineering
A PhD means literally nothing. It just means someone did some random research into something. Doesn’t even mean they were ever right about anything or ever made anything work in real life
I was in the Dr. Mike cult, thankfully I realized how mentally disturbed that man is and I tried his crazy volume mesocycles that was absolute shit.
Someone said that Mike Isratel is turning into the new Jeff Cavaliere and its stuck to me since that he has absolutely no idea how to train naturals anymore. Its sad to see they might be right
"I don't do an arm day" -Dr Mike
Well that certainly explains a lot.
Im almost at 16" congrats on 18.5 brother
Thanks and nice work!
Nice work!
I'm at 14.75, up from 14.375 a few months ago.
Damn you guys got massive dicks
@@aesop2733cock extensions to failure
I went from 7.5 to 8", jelqing really works
You just deepened my understanding of arm/shoulder biomechanics.....i need to get back to doing pullovers.
Thanks man👍🏽
Mike's an expert at excuse-making and gobble mouth terms.
If you're new to fitness and trust Mike based on his scientific branding and demeanor, you can fall for his act. But once you actually read from some people who don't bastardize sports science all the time, it becomes odd that he almost never cites specific studies for any of the numerous, numerous claims he makes.
And that nobody in sports science is using all these terms like "Raw Stimulus Magnitude". What does that even actually mean? Seriously, Mike is much closer to the gym bro mindset than being a guy who focuses on science only (not that you need to be, but he certainly loves collecting the authority points constantly referring to science nets you).
The one that put me off immediately was when he claimed that body types do not exist and that it is scientifically proven to be the case
I’m like mfer YOU have a bad body type yourself! Do you not have eyes!?
But he does have eyes he’s just a very unauthentic disingenuous person.
Highly recommended Solomon Nelson’s new video about Mike. Him and Lyle show the many contradictions Mike spews.
The last straw for me with Dr Mike was when he was watching a video of John cena clearly doing trap 3 raises and then calling them front raises. Guy is lost in the sauce
A lot of instances in the past few years where it's either.
a) ignorance
b) willful ignorance
Neither is a good look.
You DEFINITELY saw the Solomon Nelson/ Lyle McDonald video lol. Good though man Mike needs to be called out
They did a great job!
@@GVSThanks Geoffrey :)
Dr mike is an overhyped clown who lost his authenticity and makes funny faces tryna be edgy to boost his content. Jeff is over hated but seems like a good dude
As you said, hats off to Jeff, he’s really pushing those sets hard now. The really annoying thing with Dr. Mike is he kinda firmly planted his flag in the “stimulus to fatigue ratio” camp, such that it’s an ever-green reason for why he doesn’t train hard: “nah bro, any more reps and it would’ve been too much fatigue”. Rinse and repeat.
fellow big arm guy: Totally agree.
The majority of my bicep work is for the long head with strict form (no swinging) hammer curls, multiple sets and rep ranges, plus drop sets, with each set to failure (where arms can no longer physically move).
I then add in short head work with slow eccentric dumbbell (pinky up) preacher curls, to failure, multiple sets as well. For those I do one arm at a time, and finish on the last eccentric, so I can spot myself with the off arm.
My respect for Jeff has gone up over the years and gone down for Dr. Mike. It's a little disappointing because some of his advice is great, especially his older content.
Ok thats maybe thr hardest triceps isolation rep i've ever seen
I watched this video and then followed the rabbit hole (via comments) to Solomon Nelson's 3 hour video. I have been watching Mike Israetel's videos on RP for 6 months to a year - almost every day! I stopped listening to music while lifting and listened to Mike's lectures instead. Your video (and Solomon's video with Lyle) has me questioning a lot of things now. I'm tired of being grifted - but maybe that's more of a "me" problem than a "them" problem. Thanks for the video! 😵
I hope you enjoyed my video!
Watch alex leonidas, GVS, fazlifts, alec enkiri. Self experiment cautiously. You'll figure it out.
You can't know what you don't know. Mike is good at luring in inexperienced lifters with his manner of speaking, he can talk about basic stuff and make it sound like it's something profound with his word selection and tone of voice. As you get more advanced it will be easier for you to see the bs, because you'll have an experience and theoretical knowledge to rely on.
Dude.
The body moves how the body moves. Each individual based on their physiology will feel their named lifts differently and has to adjust accordingly.
You atill have to learn the lifts and variation.
Outside of that and knowing if something is safe enough or not, you dont need much rlse and certainly not these influencers, aside from ideas for lifting and safety.
This back and forth drama and criticism of each other is actually meaningless as its only an ego booster for these folks.
11:08 you can tell Jeff was a little insulted there
Can't blame him!
Axial fatigue on a cable curl LOLOLOLOL
You laugh, but when there IS axial load, there IS a degree of axial fatigue. Why wouldn't it be? Specially if the day before you back is sore from leg day of something.
@@marturomano are you on the spectrum?
Geoff has, as a natural, just straight up has better, more aesthetic, arms than Mike, who is enhanced.
Can't fight genetics
Super good points! I’m convinced at this point Mike is mostly influencer rather than expert.
When he started doing drama videos I knew he had jumped the shark.
Holy shit man you look so much bigger compared to before. Whatever you're doing is working
The slow implosion of Dr. Mike did he mention he's a doctor Israetel's credibility has been an awesome sight to behold.
I think Mike Isratel thinks how loud the trainee screams during a set is the main indicator for proximity to failure 😂😂
Lyle McDonald been at this for years, called him a potential excellent politician😂
Here's what I didn't understand about mike. He mentioned axial fatigue from cable curls and yet on Eugene Teo's channel they have a recent leg day routine where the have them do sumo deadlifts for glutes followed by rdl for hamstring and then hack squats for quads.
I mean, with that much axial loading...you won't even be able to squat after doing those 2 hinge patterns.
Love how Jeff straight up says that "psychological" talk from Mike is a bunch of BS
15:20 Goeff's hammer partials sent me 😂😂
Solomon Nelson made a 3hr documentary of why Mike Israetel is sadly not a reliable source of information for most lifters. A lot of the clips he used I had never seen before, and tbh I was kinda dumbfounded. Not only that but the level of shameless pride and arrogance really put me off Mike as a person. He seems to have major issues. We all have problems, but Mike's are very unashamedly public.
telling somebody who did workouts with John Meadows that they don't know true failure is hilarious 😂
His comment about rows and pull ups working the long head got me super fucking confused. Upper body pulling is my strongest movement pattern and I have probably done thousands of pull ups, yet I HAD to work my triceps with a long head focus to bring them up both aesthetically and to help my press work.
This is why I don't care about someone's degree. I care about their results. Mike is always making snide comments about how he is "educated" but that's just an appeal to authority that people use when they don't have an argument or know what they're talking about.
Watching you train is inspiring
Dr mike has said countless times that his arms were always lagging behind...this explains why
did doc just say “ pull-ups and rows hit the long head a ton” or am i hallucinating
I mean, they DO. But no, not a ton.
@@marturomano What a pointless comment. The person you were replying to never said pull-ups and rows didn't hit the long head at all, so I don't see why you felt the need to tell them that pull-ups and rows do hit the long head.
Absolutely loving the content!!. Been watching you for years, and the content has only become better.
I agree with Jeff. Either I can do the rep or I can't. But unlike these bodybuilding guys I never go to failure on purpose. But I do occasionally by accident so I know what it feels like. I get like 80% of the muscle growth without ever going beyond RPE8 on purpose so I prefer it. I never do isolation lifts at all. Never ever, just S/B/D, variants and some pulls.
Hey Jeff you’re Mass Effect program is S tier. Thank you for sharing your golden tidbits.
Dr Mike is a supposed expert but can’t reach failure? I could reach failure every day without even lifting.
6:40 It commented this on the video. The long head is bi-articular. If you let your elbows drop forward during the overhead tricep extension, you're reducing the stretch on the long head. Defeating the purpose of the exercise. It's shortening on one end while lengthening at the other.
Dang Geoff beefing with dr Mike is wild 🤯 keep up the great work :)
Now I wanna see an GVS/NH collab.
Dr mike turning into jordan peterson is not an arc I’ve ever wanted to see
Dude, Israetel has a philosophy channel and he literally just vomits things like Peterson. He has the mentality of 14 year old:
www.youtube.com/@MikeIsraetelMakingProgress
So glad you tackle renaissance periodization. They say so much wrong stuff but no one wants to risk missing out on lucrative collabs with them because their TH-cam is so big. Really shows that GVS is real.
I have to disagree some on the reps in reserve topic. I do think it can be different depending on your state of mind. Our psychological state of our mind will heavily influence how many reps we can get. Heck, even level of overall restfulness / stress levels and things like is there enough readily available energy and or foods consumed prior will impact performance. Surely RIR can differ, sometimes dramatically, day to day. I feel like these strong disagreements on Mikes philosophy stem more from misunderstandings of his stance. For example, he’s stated and is pretty open in prior videos that he used to use the all out fully amped up training style but it ended up wrecking his body too much. This is the whole reason he is so big on finding ways to stimulate the muscle without tons of fatigue generation and I find his methods useful as someone who also has pushed beyond what my physical & mental health could maintain.
I’m not old enough to where it matters yet but I can’t imagine going to the gym and *not* training to failure on 90%+ of my exercises. It’s like the whole point of going.
The biggest way Mike had stimulated muscle growth is his copius amounts of gear. And I have never heard anyone say that RIR can’t differ day to day, it seems like you just constructed a strawman when peoples main point has been that Mike doesn’t train hard which is just true.
@newuser689
I was the same way, always going psychotically all out on my reps & sets. Joints and other signals from my body started to not be possible to ignore. Been over the years switching over to more focused workout techniques as RP suggests. Not saying the time spent going all out has no benefit, but I will say my best results have come more recent by increasing focus. If I’d known this in the past I would have likely started off the RP way. Certain connective tissues in my body are reminded regularly the abuse they went through. I’m nearly 36 by the way.
@@movestattoo4561
The implication being spoken of in this video is that there is only 1 rir, your either training hard or your not, at 1 rep in reserve or not. I think this is BS. There are ways to train hard that don’t stress connective tissue and generate as much overall fatigue. It’s a skill that needs to be trained and perfected over time. A good skill to have if you want to be in this game for the long-term. Unless your made of indestructible diamonds, in which case, carry on 🫡
Honestly one of the best reaction videos I've ever seen and I have been lifting for a longgggg time