As a Black Adventist and a social worker who is radical in my thinking, this is is absolutely timely and everyone in our church from the General Conference on down to our local churches should hear this!!!! Our church has a legacy, a history, and a tradition of abolition and social justice and we must not lose that as we spread the Gospel and meet the needs of the most marginalized among us. Thank you!
Thank you for this podcast Lineage and Bro Burton. This is truly humbling and heartwarming to see our pioneers defending both religious and civil liberties. May we too, today, speak out against injustices that are plaguing our societies. Thank you once again
Could I include this conversation? Me; Did Ellen happen to say; Sabbath started from Sinai; Yet IS a Genesis practice, if we want it to be? An Adventist deacon; What I think she is saying is that it was written down at Sinai but even then the Sabbath commandment contains a direct reference to creation, making it a Genesis concept even if not referred to with the word Sabbath. Me; Obviously starting with either Noah; or Abe; or maybe even Joe? Or would you say with Adam and Eve? Him; I believe with Adam and Eve. Me; Noah didn't seem to say a word. Him; Not specifically, that I am aware of. Honestly I never looked at his life from that perspective. Given that he was chosen of God I have no problem believing that he kept it. Me; Im sorry but; Paul was also chosen of God. As Col 2:16-17 is also a Sabbath command. Is Nehemiah; chosen of God? Him; Absolutely. Me; Well then; Noah being a person of God; doesn't at all mean he kept Sabbath. Especially since Neh 9:13-14 says he didn't. Him; Made known does not necessarily mean introduced. Remember that the children of Israel just spent 400 years in Egypt and hadn't been totally faithful. That's why the Ten Commandments were put in writing and given to Moses. Before then the law was not in writing on tablets of stone. Me; Im going to have to insist; what precisely does Made known in N 91314 mean? I don't want; Does not necessarily mean. Seems to me; that does mean Sabbath was introduced. I would prefer to think you'll keep up with this discussion. After I insert this; somebody just might take your side; for all I know. Him; Remember the Sabbath Day.... Based on the manna story (don't collect it on the Sabbath) the Sabbath was instituted prior to Sinai. So, if you will, made known means remember, or reminded. Me; Can we agree that Remember; means since Sabbath 1st shows up; Ex 16:23? I can agree; Made known, is similar to Remember. Im not sure; Reminded, is an appropriate word; unless Remember is the same as Reminded; since the 1st showing as of Ex 16:23. Any time in Genesis; is only Sabbath "Reaching". Him; You may consider it reaching but I do not. You will never get me to agree that that the Sabbath was not a creation item. It says so right in the commandment. Me; If by commandment; you mean the 4th?; it would help if there was more of a signal that Remember means since creation; where the word doesn't exist; and does exist as of Ex 16:23; which any Adventist clearly cannot deny. And at the most; Ex 20:11 is God's declaration of Sabbath; for what is only a Genesis idea; and not man's command; because all of biblical Sabbath history is very duly noted, and yes should be taught about; yet what Paul meant by the final Sabbath command, is my primary concern. Him; Not sure what you mean with Paul's final Sabbath command. Me; Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Him; I believe we have been over this ground before. The issue Paul was addressing had to do with Gentiles having to keep Jewish traditions. One of those was the Sabbaths created by the various feasts. These were the Sabbaths Paul was addressing. Me; And if Paul isn't saying; Don't concern about Sabbath, then Sabbath really should be a bible word in later books; much less in Revelation. I guess Sabbath might be a Heb 4:9 word in the Nkjb; or depending on what modern day translation 1 has. And once again; Sabbath should be a Revelation word; and no it's not; if your Col 2:16-17 interpretation is correct? Him; The whole issue is that the Sabbath is not just a word, it is a principle and a blessing given by God at creation. Simply because the word isn't included in every book of the Bible is not evidence that it doesn't exist. I believe it exists in every book of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Me; If Sabbath is a very bible word; where the word obviously exist; then Sabbath should be a bible word where it clearly doesn't. You will find out later; I will ask "God" on accountability day; Why isn't Sabbath a Genesis or Revelation word; as Adventists believe it is? And I would expect a solid answer. I say; if Sabbath were that much of a bible word; then I should see Revelation saying, Sabbath! And I DON'T! And you don't think gathering for Sabbath; can't become a "Cult"? Which means everybody believes they are being absolutely obedient; ... And I've even heard extremely few confessions for Sunday? And Adventists also seem to make light of Col 2:16-17; expressing your attitude and conclusions about Sabbath (I'm trying not to fall apart here; trying to get my wordings right) ... Trying to explain my conclusions further; is getting more difficult. While other concerns are still about Ellen as a true or actually false prophet, as Adventists claim an easy answer on her; ... As I also think modern day bibles are counterfeit; ... As I'm now even "Reaching" on trying to explain my conclusions further. If you believe your keeping the 10 C.; why don't you keep the death commandments? Him; The death commandments were put into place when God was leading the Children of Israel directly. Death still applied as a result of murder. You will recall that Christ didn't apply the death penalty with the woman caught in adultery in John 8. I still believe that the death penalty is appropriate for certain murder convictions. Me; And my other concerns? Him; I believe we have addressed those as to what my opinion is. You know what my opinion on the Sabbath is as well as what Paul wrote about it. Me; Yes Paul wrote about Sabbath; yet didn't command it; or enforce it Him; Yet he kept it. Why would he need to command it when the command already existed? Me; I've been attending your church avidly for over a year. Do you think I'm Adventist? Him; It's not my decision to make. Your first step in determining that would be to see if you agree with the 28 fundamental beliefs of the Adventist church. Since accepting Ellen White as a true prophet is one of them, I'm thinking you still might have a hard time with being defined as a SDA. Me; Can you answer about Acts 18:6? After that we have a strange Acts 20:7. And my point is; Paul cannot really be defined as a Sabbatarian. Him; Not sure what you mean with Acts 18:6. For 20:7 remember that Paul and the Jews measured days from sunset to sunset. The first day of the week would have started at Sabbath evening upon sunset. Then why did he spend his time speaking to me Jews in the synagogue everywhere he went? The Sabbath was the day they all gathered. Given that he was a trained Pharisee I would suggest you saying he was not a Sabbatarian is on shaky ground. You couldn't not be a Sabbatarian and be a Pharisee. Me; This is after/ as of his final time with Sabbatarians. Acts 18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles. Not really any shaky ground at all. A trained Pharisee only means a bible expert. Him; And in those days Bible experts were Sabbatarians. And in going to the Gentiles, how does that make him a non Sabbatarian? Check your history. No one was a Sunday keeper in Paul's time. In Christianity that doesn't come into play until Constantine. Me; Actually; this is what I tell my buddy at my job. He's a Sabbatarian who has; like you, admitted L 231121 means Sunday. I'm history. I'm the next "Justin Martyre". Constantine didn't actually do anything. I said so! You only think he did. Him; It only means Sunday when it fell on Sunday. Feast celebrations didn't always start on the same day. And regardless of what you might say Constantine was pretty critical to the modern day Christian view of the day of worship. Me; Are 2 different days; "Holy" in Ex 12:16? What's its for doesn't matter. Lev 2321 says a time/ day of "Holy"ness. For which day? Not Sabbath. 2 different days are described. At this time; it's clearly your choice. Who's word you going to take? Constantines ; or mine? If you pick his; to override even your own confession on Sunday; then that's your choice. I feel perfectly safe at my exclusive KJB church for eternity sake. And you can ask later on; What happened to Jesse? On accountability day. Any further communications; go ahead. Him; You have some interesting beliefs, my friend. And, on a point we do agree on, God is the ultimate judge. Me; I guess we could say; your church made me this way. Along with my church.
💗❤️🔥❤️🔥 Silence is the language of God❣️🌹 All else is poor translation -Rumi …Neither shall they say, Lo here or Lo there. The kingdom of God is within you. -Luke 17:21 Seek ye first The kingdom of God and His righteousness, and… Matt. 6:33 bee Still and know… -Holy Bible ❤️🔥❤️🔥💗 May we find the peace within. That peace that passes understanding. ☮️☮️☮️
Interesting that Mr. Burton never backed up his opinions on "social justice" with any biblical passage. During most of his rant, he sounded more like a BLM activist and not like a follower of Christ, who told us: " My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight...." (John 18:36). Keep in mind that Christ left this lesson for us when He was schooling on the topic of justice a super tyrant and oppressor, who represented at that moment all the power and brutality of the original beast, imperial Rome. As Christians, our role model in every single aspect is Christ Almighty, and not the pioneers of the SDA church and their political views. In the same way that the pioneers were abolitionist, they were also segregationists, responsible in part for the current separation of conferences in the church (Black Conference, etc). Let's keep our focus and efforts in our real mission as church, which is very clear and specific: Matthew 28: 19-20.
Let them spy on us, souls will be saved even this way. The Lord has thousands of ways to draw people to Himself that will never occur to us. Imagine someone tapping you on the shoulder, in heaven, and they say, "we were spying on the church and that's why I am here."
Brother's this needs to be a video Right Now, fundraiser ? youtube channel EvenAtTheDoors has all kinds of information on Haiti's Wars , All you Brother's Minds Will be ground moving for GOD JESUS CHRIST
As a Black Adventist and a social worker who is radical in my thinking, this is is absolutely timely and everyone in our church from the General Conference on down to our local churches should hear this!!!! Our church has a legacy, a history, and a tradition of abolition and social justice and we must not lose that as we spread the Gospel and meet the needs of the most marginalized among us. Thank you!
Thank you for this podcast Lineage and Bro Burton. This is truly humbling and heartwarming to see our pioneers defending both religious and civil liberties. May we too, today, speak out against injustices that are plaguing our societies. Thank you once again
This episode was such an eye opener! Thank you for recording it
Superb. Thank you. This has given me hope in Adventism, and hope in the Gospel. May Christ be exalted. Literally gave me chills.
🙌🏽🙌🏽
This is by far my favourite episode, may God continue to bless your ministry.
Informative as!!! Wow! So glad I heard this.
Very informative and educational. I learned a lot of new things I did not know about.
Very insightful, thank you
Brilliant!
Interesting. Very good.
Could I include this conversation?
Me;
Did Ellen happen to say; Sabbath started from Sinai; Yet IS a Genesis practice, if we want it to be?
An Adventist deacon;
What I think she is saying is that it was written down at Sinai but even then the Sabbath commandment contains a direct reference to creation, making it a Genesis concept even if not referred to with the word Sabbath.
Me;
Obviously starting with either Noah; or Abe; or maybe even Joe?
Or would you say with Adam and Eve?
Him;
I believe with Adam and Eve.
Me;
Noah didn't seem to say a word.
Him;
Not specifically, that I am aware of. Honestly I never looked at his life from that perspective. Given that he was chosen of God I have no problem believing that he kept it.
Me;
Im sorry but; Paul was also chosen of God. As Col 2:16-17 is also a Sabbath command.
Is Nehemiah; chosen of God?
Him;
Absolutely.
Me;
Well then; Noah being a person of God; doesn't at all mean he kept Sabbath.
Especially since Neh 9:13-14 says he didn't.
Him;
Made known does not necessarily mean introduced. Remember that the children of Israel just spent 400 years in Egypt and hadn't been totally faithful. That's why the Ten Commandments were put in writing and given to Moses. Before then the law was not in writing on tablets of stone.
Me;
Im going to have to insist; what precisely does Made known in N 91314 mean?
I don't want; Does not necessarily mean. Seems to me; that does mean Sabbath was introduced.
I would prefer to think you'll keep up with this discussion. After I insert this; somebody just might take your side; for all I know.
Him;
Remember the Sabbath Day.... Based on the manna story (don't collect it on the Sabbath) the Sabbath was instituted prior to Sinai. So, if you will, made known means remember, or reminded.
Me;
Can we agree that Remember; means since Sabbath 1st shows up; Ex 16:23?
I can agree; Made known, is similar to Remember.
Im not sure; Reminded, is an appropriate word; unless Remember is the same as Reminded; since the 1st showing as of Ex 16:23.
Any time in Genesis; is only Sabbath "Reaching".
Him;
You may consider it reaching but I do not. You will never get me to agree that that the Sabbath was not a creation item. It says so right in the commandment.
Me;
If by commandment; you mean the 4th?; it would help if there was more of a signal that Remember means since creation; where the word doesn't exist; and does exist as of Ex 16:23; which any Adventist clearly cannot deny.
And at the most; Ex 20:11 is God's declaration of Sabbath; for what is only a Genesis idea; and not man's command; because all of biblical Sabbath history is very duly noted, and yes should be taught about; yet what Paul meant by the final Sabbath command, is my primary concern.
Him;
Not sure what you mean with Paul's final Sabbath command.
Me;
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Him;
I believe we have been over this ground before. The issue Paul was addressing had to do with Gentiles having to keep Jewish traditions. One of those was the Sabbaths created by the various feasts. These were the Sabbaths Paul was addressing.
Me;
And if Paul isn't saying; Don't concern about Sabbath, then Sabbath really should be a bible word in later books; much less in Revelation.
I guess Sabbath might be a Heb 4:9 word in the Nkjb; or depending on what modern day translation 1 has.
And once again; Sabbath should be a Revelation word; and no it's not; if your Col 2:16-17 interpretation is correct?
Him;
The whole issue is that the Sabbath is not just a word, it is a principle and a blessing given by God at creation. Simply because the word isn't included in every book of the Bible is not evidence that it doesn't exist. I believe it exists in every book of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.
Me;
If Sabbath is a very bible word; where the word obviously exist; then Sabbath should be a bible word where it clearly doesn't. You will find out later; I will ask "God" on accountability day; Why isn't Sabbath a Genesis or Revelation word; as Adventists believe it is? And I would expect a solid answer. I say; if Sabbath were that much of a bible word; then I should see Revelation saying, Sabbath! And I DON'T! And you don't think gathering for Sabbath; can't become a "Cult"?
Which means everybody believes they are being absolutely obedient; ... And I've even heard extremely few confessions for Sunday?
And Adventists also seem to make light of Col 2:16-17; expressing your attitude and conclusions about Sabbath (I'm trying not to fall apart here; trying to get my wordings right)
... Trying to explain my conclusions further; is getting more difficult.
While other concerns are still about Ellen as a true or actually false prophet, as Adventists claim an easy answer on her; ... As I also think modern day bibles are counterfeit; ... As I'm now even "Reaching" on trying to explain my conclusions further.
If you believe your keeping the 10 C.; why don't you keep the death commandments?
Him;
The death commandments were put into place when God was leading the Children of Israel directly. Death still applied as a result of murder. You will recall that Christ didn't apply the death penalty with the woman caught in adultery in John 8. I still believe that the death penalty is appropriate for certain murder convictions.
Me;
And my other concerns?
Him;
I believe we have addressed those as to what my opinion is. You know what my opinion on the Sabbath is as well as what Paul wrote about it.
Me;
Yes Paul wrote about Sabbath; yet didn't command it; or enforce it
Him;
Yet he kept it. Why would he need to command it when the command already existed?
Me;
I've been attending your church avidly for over a year. Do you think I'm Adventist?
Him;
It's not my decision to make. Your first step in determining that would be to see if you agree with the 28 fundamental beliefs of the Adventist church. Since accepting Ellen White as a true prophet is one of them, I'm thinking you still might have a hard time with being defined as a SDA.
Me;
Can you answer about Acts 18:6? After that we have a strange Acts 20:7.
And my point is; Paul cannot really be defined as a Sabbatarian.
Him;
Not sure what you mean with Acts 18:6. For 20:7 remember that Paul and the Jews measured days from sunset to sunset. The first day of the week would have started at Sabbath evening upon sunset.
Then why did he spend his time speaking to me Jews in the synagogue everywhere he went? The Sabbath was the day they all gathered. Given that he was a trained Pharisee I would suggest you saying he was not a Sabbatarian is on shaky ground. You couldn't not be a Sabbatarian and be a Pharisee.
Me;
This is after/ as of his final time with Sabbatarians.
Acts 18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
Not really any shaky ground at all.
A trained Pharisee only means a bible expert.
Him;
And in those days Bible experts were Sabbatarians. And in going to the Gentiles, how does that make him a non Sabbatarian? Check your history. No one was a Sunday keeper in Paul's time. In Christianity that doesn't come into play until Constantine.
Me;
Actually; this is what I tell my buddy at my job.
He's a Sabbatarian who has; like you, admitted L 231121 means Sunday.
I'm history. I'm the next "Justin Martyre".
Constantine didn't actually do anything. I said so! You only think he did.
Him;
It only means Sunday when it fell on Sunday. Feast celebrations didn't always start on the same day. And regardless of what you might say Constantine was pretty critical to the modern day Christian view of the day of worship.
Me;
Are 2 different days; "Holy" in Ex 12:16?
What's its for doesn't matter.
Lev 2321 says a time/ day of "Holy"ness.
For which day? Not Sabbath. 2 different days are described.
At this time; it's clearly your choice. Who's word you going to take? Constantines ; or mine? If you pick his; to override even your own confession on Sunday; then that's your choice. I feel perfectly safe at my exclusive KJB church for eternity sake.
And you can ask later on; What happened to Jesse? On accountability day. Any further communications; go ahead.
Him;
You have some interesting beliefs, my friend. And, on a point we do agree on, God is the ultimate judge.
Me;
I guess we could say; your church made me this way.
Along with my church.
💗❤️🔥❤️🔥 Silence is the language of God❣️🌹 All else is poor translation
-Rumi
…Neither shall they say, Lo here or Lo there. The kingdom of God is within you.
-Luke 17:21
Seek ye first The kingdom of God and His righteousness, and…
Matt. 6:33
bee Still and know…
-Holy Bible
❤️🔥❤️🔥💗
May we find the peace within. That peace that passes understanding. ☮️☮️☮️
🙏🙏🙏
Can you do a lineage on Martin Luther
And his theses?
th-cam.com/video/1ygYbSOpylI/w-d-xo.html - Already done :)
I think they already have, check their video list
👍
Not exactly agreeing with the BLM and CRT push from this guy. I’m Adventist but I disagree with him on that.
Interesting that Mr. Burton never backed up his opinions on "social justice" with any biblical passage. During most of his rant, he sounded more like a BLM activist and not like a follower of Christ, who told us: " My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight...." (John 18:36). Keep in mind that Christ left this lesson for us when He was schooling on the topic of justice a super tyrant and oppressor, who represented at that moment all the power and brutality of the original beast, imperial Rome.
As Christians, our role model in every single aspect is Christ Almighty, and not the pioneers of the SDA church and their political views. In the same way that the pioneers were abolitionist, they were also segregationists, responsible in part for the current separation of conferences in the church (Black Conference, etc).
Let's keep our focus and efforts in our real mission as church, which is very clear and specific: Matthew 28: 19-20.
Regional conferences did not exist until the 1940's 100 years after 1844. So this was not pioneer actions
I withdrawn my support for Lineage Journey. I think that sums up my opinion of Mr Burton’s opinions.
Let them spy on us, souls will be saved even this way. The Lord has thousands of ways to draw people to Himself that will never occur to us. Imagine someone tapping you on the shoulder, in heaven, and they say, "we were spying on the church and that's why I am here."
Brother's this needs to be a video Right Now, fundraiser ? youtube channel EvenAtTheDoors has all kinds of information on Haiti's Wars , All you Brother's Minds Will be ground moving for GOD JESUS CHRIST