I was reading the written interview of an indigenous writer from South America, whose name I can’t remember, but he was asked which was his favorite indigenous novel, and his answer probably was the thing that triggered my thoughts about unrooting art from its cultural origin, he responded: ‘Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen’
I really enjoyed your response. You correctly identified the problem with the idea of the Great American Novel and why I made a list of 25 and didn't pick one. In part my point was to highlight the impossibility of picking a single novel to represent the US "experience" by listing books that I think say something important about the United States from a diverse group of authors. We agree on this completely I think. I do not agree with your statement that there is nothing that is inherently American. The US like every other nation has its own unique history and culture that has developed from its national experiences. Every country has this which is one reason why people travel and one reason why I think it is important to read books from as many countries as possible. Globalization has not eliminated that yet and I hope that it never does. You probably noticed that many of the books on my list center on slavery and its aftermath in the United States. While of course many countries practiced slavery, no two countries did so in the exact same way or brought it to an end in the exact same way or handled the integration of the formerly enslaved into their society in the exact same way. The way the US did those things is unique to the US and has created racial problems that are still affecting American society in ways that are inherently American. The same is true for the ways in which the US has dealt with immigrants, its indigenous population, territorial expansion etc. Other countries deal with or have dealt with the same issues but none in the exact same way that the US has. So to me our history has produced experiences and a culture that are and continue to be inherently American. This is, of course, also true for Ireland, Thailand, Botswana, and every other nation. The term American is applied to things and people from the United States because the word America is a part of the official name of the country -- The United States of America. It seems arrogant and my defense of it perhaps jingoistic, but there really is no other word that works to describe people or things from the United States (United Statesian is awkward).
Brian from Bookish acknowledged that he borrowed the idea from Greg at Supposedly Fun whose podcast two days earlier is called, Reacting to The Atlantic’s Great American Novels List which is also worth looking at. BTW, I am inherently American and Mr. Grix comes off as a know-it-all (or maybe snob) in telling us what we are or what we aren't because he's read some books.
“It is bad when one thing becomes two. One should not look for anything else in the Way of the Samurai. It is the same for anything that is called a Way. Therefore, it is inconsistent to hear something of the Way of Confucius or the Way of the Buddha, and say that this is the Way of the Samurai. If one understands things in this manner, he should be able to hear about all Ways and be more and more in accord with his own.” ― Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai
I love how you bring discussion to Booktube. You're right about that it's an impossible task to choose a Great American Novel and also probably that notion is going to become obsolete in the near future (if globalization continues) but I just think that people do it in a fun way. In addition, what each person chooses as the Great American Novel says a lot about them. Of course it's ridiculous but it's nice to try to find a piece of fiction that can show and explain what it is to be American, also because many have written a novel with that in mind, to see what can they add or what is their take on that matter. Just think about the realist novels from many countries in Europe. For lots of them the novel was at its peak and some wanted to try to encapsulate a moment in time, to show characters from different social classes, ages and genders and their circumstances at that moment in time on that country,. Those can be consider "Great (whatever the country) Novel". By the way, as a spanish native speaker myself watching your video gave me a lot of confidence that maybe I can do something similar in the future. Being argentinian I don't think I can choose a novel that truly represents us (I still have to read many), also because I think it's a land of amazing short story writers and it would be difficult for a short story to truly represents what Argentina is and how argentines are. I'm going to think about it. Hugs from Spain!
Thank you! You’re right, I still think that if one is aware of that then the exercise of making a list like this can be very fun and interesting. As for Argentina, maybe the greatest book could be a short story Anthology! hahaha
@@materiagrix Yes, it’s interesting that Borges, one of our greatest short story writers, usually is not on the Latin American section in libraries and if you read it, you’ll understand why (please do, he’s amazing). If I have to choose someone recent that can really capture our culture is of course Mariana Enriquez. Her three short story collections and her novel “Nuestra parte de noche” explore many horrors that have to do specifically with our country and our taranna (great Catalan word I've learned that means mindset). Yes, people from everywhere can enjoy her writing (and be scared) but they probably have to look up many things to truly understand. To read her while I’m living abroad definitely put me in contact with my country and culture. Have you read her?
@@incandenzabookclub Oh I have read Borges! I love his Fictions and Libro de Arena but I also read his complete poetry and I plan on reading the Aleph this year. But I can’t recall having read Mariana Enriquez, I’ll check her out!
"It's quite reductionist to think about the Great Novel when it comes to a nation." I think it's also a heck of a lot of fun. I wish we'd see more lists from around the world rather than critiques of the experiment.
I agree with everything you said except for the second half of your last sentence. I think the creation of those lists and their critique can live together and even fees on each other. I simply did not do a list of my own because there’s only one American novel I can recall having read that felt to me like it could be a contender for that title, and this is of course a commentary on my own ignorance rather than the quality of American Literature. If anything my proposal of dividing the Great American novel in centuries and specific regions would increase the number of lists.
@@materiagrix I'm not against the critiques of the experiment as a whole; I'm just bored by them. The faults in the system are widely known already and indeed are mentioned in nearly every list video that I've seen. I just think lists of the The Great Spanish (Bolivian / Icelandic / Nigerian) novels would be so much more interesting than standalone critiques of the American attempt.
That's an interesting idea. I think definitely culture by nation boundaries is not he most intelligent way, but rather culture is more like spectrum, something like a gray zone which is mixed with different cultures near it.
@@materiagrix Indeed, that's absolutely true. With globalisation and internet access ideas are no longer confined to one place. I did missed that point. But I also believe that there is a negative part to it. Internet has a potential of homogenising the human experience across the globe. A sort of mass culture that can shadow other local cultures. There is a particular set of books and media that everyone just pretend to like and love even though they don't really enjoy it ( all the book in booktok that only comes for a trend and then everyone starts hating them afterwards). Experience becomes uniform through it. So yeah what you are saying about in this video is true. Using a single book to express all sort of diverse cultures is just wrong
I see the validity of your points, but there is diversity in the subject. While I agree in the fact it's difficult to differenciate art from its cultural background, I also believe its technical qualities are pretty objective on themselves. I am Argentinian and two of our greatest writers are Jorge Luis Borges and Juan José Saer. Borges lacks written novels but Saer has a few very well praised. I only read by him "Cicatrices" and didn't like it.
Oh I agree with that, I would love for people to make videos about the objective best novel of their country. But when people say ‘The Great American Novel’ they are not referring to the quality of the novel but to how much it represents the American values and characteristics of its people, that is what I am questioning.
Howdy duder: this is ,frankly, too wordy... paucis pallabras , let the world slide sessa!( Christophero Sly duder)...Great works of imagination can give to every reader whatever he is capable of taking from it...( regardless of length) don't take this the wrong way o my brother I'm cool with you... messing' with you...peace all the best
I do hate the phrase "great american novel" bc the novels we talk about traditional come from one POV and America (as with many countires) is made up of a diverse group of peoples!! These peoples are usually not represented in these "great american novels"
I was reading the written interview of an indigenous writer from South America, whose name I can’t remember, but he was asked which was his favorite indigenous novel, and his answer probably was the thing that triggered my thoughts about unrooting art from its cultural origin, he responded:
‘Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen’
Grix: “… there’s no one great Spanish novel…”
Don Quixote: *intensifies*
I really enjoyed your response. You correctly identified the problem with the idea of the Great American Novel and why I made a list of 25 and didn't pick one. In part my point was to highlight the impossibility of picking a single novel to represent the US "experience" by listing books that I think say something important about the United States from a diverse group of authors. We agree on this completely I think.
I do not agree with your statement that there is nothing that is inherently American. The US like every other nation has its own unique history and culture that has developed from its national experiences. Every country has this which is one reason why people travel and one reason why I think it is important to read books from as many countries as possible. Globalization has not eliminated that yet and I hope that it never does. You probably noticed that many of the books on my list center on slavery and its aftermath in the United States. While of course many countries practiced slavery, no two countries did so in the exact same way or brought it to an end in the exact same way or handled the integration of the formerly enslaved into their society in the exact same way. The way the US did those things is unique to the US and has created racial problems that are still affecting American society in ways that are inherently American. The same is true for the ways in which the US has dealt with immigrants, its indigenous population, territorial expansion etc. Other countries deal with or have dealt with the same issues but none in the exact same way that the US has. So to me our history has produced experiences and a culture that are and continue to be inherently American. This is, of course, also true for Ireland, Thailand, Botswana, and every other nation.
The term American is applied to things and people from the United States because the word America is a part of the official name of the country -- The United States of America. It seems arrogant and my defense of it perhaps jingoistic, but there really is no other word that works to describe people or things from the United States (United Statesian is awkward).
You hit all the points. Great comment.
Brian from Bookish acknowledged that he borrowed the idea from Greg at Supposedly Fun whose podcast two days earlier is called, Reacting to The Atlantic’s Great American Novels List which is also worth looking at. BTW, I am inherently American and Mr. Grix comes off as a know-it-all (or maybe snob) in telling us what we are or what we aren't because he's read some books.
“It is bad when one thing becomes two. One should not look for anything else in the Way of the Samurai. It is the same for anything that is called a Way. Therefore, it is inconsistent to hear something of the Way of Confucius or the Way of the Buddha, and say that this is the Way of the Samurai. If one understands things in this manner, he should be able to hear about all Ways and be more and more in accord with his own.”
― Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai
I love how you bring discussion to Booktube. You're right about that it's an impossible task to choose a Great American Novel and also probably that notion is going to become obsolete in the near future (if globalization continues) but I just think that people do it in a fun way. In addition, what each person chooses as the Great American Novel says a lot about them.
Of course it's ridiculous but it's nice to try to find a piece of fiction that can show and explain what it is to be American, also because many have written a novel with that in mind, to see what can they add or what is their take on that matter.
Just think about the realist novels from many countries in Europe. For lots of them the novel was at its peak and some wanted to try to encapsulate a moment in time, to show characters from different social classes, ages and genders and their circumstances at that moment in time on that country,. Those can be consider "Great (whatever the country) Novel".
By the way, as a spanish native speaker myself watching your video gave me a lot of confidence that maybe I can do something similar in the future. Being argentinian I don't think I can choose a novel that truly represents us (I still have to read many), also because I think it's a land of amazing short story writers and it would be difficult for a short story to truly represents what Argentina is and how argentines are. I'm going to think about it. Hugs from Spain!
Thank you! You’re right, I still think that if one is aware of that then the exercise of making a list like this can be very fun and interesting. As for Argentina, maybe the greatest book could be a short story Anthology! hahaha
@@materiagrix Yes, it’s interesting that Borges, one of our greatest short story writers, usually is not on the Latin American section in libraries and if you read it, you’ll understand why (please do, he’s amazing).
If I have to choose someone recent that can really capture our culture is of course Mariana Enriquez. Her three short story collections and her novel “Nuestra parte de noche” explore many horrors that have to do specifically with our country and our taranna (great Catalan word I've learned that means mindset). Yes, people from everywhere can enjoy her writing (and be scared) but they probably have to look up many things to truly understand. To read her while I’m living abroad definitely put me in contact with my country and culture. Have you read her?
@@incandenzabookclub Oh I have read Borges! I love his Fictions and Libro de Arena but I also read his complete poetry and I plan on reading the Aleph this year. But I can’t recall having read Mariana Enriquez, I’ll check her out!
@@materiagrix I love his short stories but I still haven't read his poetry. I will though.
@@incandenzabookclub The poetry is good but more cryptic, it is meant to be a slower read, and reread :)
"It's quite reductionist to think about the Great Novel when it comes to a nation."
I think it's also a heck of a lot of fun. I wish we'd see more lists from around the world rather than critiques of the experiment.
I agree with everything you said except for the second half of your last sentence. I think the creation of those lists and their critique can live together and even fees on each other. I simply did not do a list of my own because there’s only one American novel I can recall having read that felt to me like it could be a contender for that title, and this is of course a commentary on my own ignorance rather than the quality of American Literature. If anything my proposal of dividing the Great American novel in centuries and specific regions would increase the number of lists.
@@materiagrix I'm not against the critiques of the experiment as a whole; I'm just bored by them. The faults in the system are widely known already and indeed are mentioned in nearly every list video that I've seen. I just think lists of the The Great Spanish (Bolivian / Icelandic / Nigerian) novels would be so much more interesting than standalone critiques of the American attempt.
That's an interesting idea. I think definitely culture by nation boundaries is not he most intelligent way, but rather culture is more like spectrum, something like a gray zone which is mixed with different cultures near it.
I agree, except that I don’t think proximity is relevant anymore since the birth of the internet
@@materiagrix Indeed, that's absolutely true. With globalisation and internet access ideas are no longer confined to one place. I did missed that point.
But I also believe that there is a negative part to it. Internet has a potential of homogenising the human experience across the globe. A sort of mass culture that can shadow other local cultures. There is a particular set of books and media that everyone just pretend to like and love even though they don't really enjoy it ( all the book in booktok that only comes for a trend and then everyone starts hating them afterwards). Experience becomes uniform through it.
So yeah what you are saying about in this video is true. Using a single book to express all sort of diverse cultures is just wrong
I see the validity of your points, but there is diversity in the subject. While I agree in the fact it's difficult to differenciate art from its cultural background, I also believe its technical qualities are pretty objective on themselves. I am Argentinian and two of our greatest writers are Jorge Luis Borges and Juan José Saer. Borges lacks written novels but Saer has a few very well praised. I only read by him "Cicatrices" and didn't like it.
Oh I agree with that, I would love for people to make videos about the objective best novel of their country. But when people say ‘The Great American Novel’ they are not referring to the quality of the novel but to how much it represents the American values and characteristics of its people, that is what I am questioning.
Howdy duder: this is ,frankly, too wordy... paucis pallabras , let the world slide sessa!( Christophero Sly duder)...Great works of imagination can give to every reader whatever he is capable of taking from it...( regardless of length)
don't take this the wrong way o my brother I'm cool with you... messing' with you...peace all the best
I do hate the phrase "great american novel" bc the novels we talk about traditional come from one POV and America (as with many countires) is made up of a diverse group of peoples!! These peoples are usually not represented in these "great american novels"