The Rolex Flipper Game Is OVER! - Watch Dealers’ Honest Market Update - August 2024
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
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Charlie (THWD)
But your whole channel is based on the idea of flipping?
Not really. There is a difference between flipperscum and a healthy second hand market.
He gets all his stock from those flipper scum!!!
Flipping for a quick profit just out of the AD support is over is what is being suggested…it remains to be seen.
Watch dealers buy and sell at market prices.
He was around when the grey market was built off of giving you discounts off retail. There’s a big difference between an established seller and someone jumping in during the hype.
The deal with Rolex was you buy it for retail and in around five years the prices on same new piece has risen such that the gray market will pay you what you spent. No big profit - but your money back if needed. So there is always a market for used watches. And your new price of today will be a bargain price in five years - as the new will be thousands more than your used watch. There is something nice about a brand new watch - unmolested and from an AD it will not be a copy.
I was offered a RG Daytona after 1 month wait which I declined and a YG Daytona the week-end after, which I declined as well. I had just bought a Panda Daytona in Japan the month prior. Then my brother got called for a 41 DJ, my wife for a Tiffany blue OP and myself again for a 36 DJ. My wife and I refused our calls and my brother bought his. I am waiting for the GMTs. Moreover, when I asked about trying an Oysterflex bracelet, they pulled out a WG black dial + diamonds Oysterflex Daytona from the back for me to try. I am 100% convinced their inventories are going up and watch lovers will start getting called again. Just sharing my experience from an AD in a smaller city in Canada. Good luck to all and hope you get the call!
Can’t wear them safely here in UK in the current environment enables by our uni party government policies.. The lux watch market is going south along with many other things here in UK.. including me ! This country is over…
@danbooker278.100% TRUTH.Two Tier STARMERFUHRER and LIEBOUR HAVE OR ARE DESTROYING OUR ISLAND AND IT'S OWN INDEGINOUS PEOPLE.GET LIEBOUR AND THAT TWOT IN BULL'S EYE 🎯
GOD save us not only the queen
Absolutely correct, I am looking to move in the next couple of years and I have started making plans.
It’s not that they don’t want the big pieces it’s that they can not afford the big pieces
Sweet kid Kino was right??😂
My take is that some of the collectors that hoarded models over the years will be forced to bring them to the grey market at a lower price to cash in for their next watch if indeed Rolex will squeeze customers to buy bigger pieces to get sport models more available. Also a hot take here, all rolex models are daily models your lifestyle makes it dailyable.
That could very well be the case, we will have to see what happens! 👌🏻
a 37k brand new was sold by you for 27 ? does that mean the buyer sold it 24k to you ?
A little less probably.
Gold Rolex dont sell because they are not even close to beeing worth 40k. I would even argue the steel watches are not worth the money anymore
Look up super clones. If Rolex keeps up this madness I’m seriously gonna consider getting a clone.
@@buridah328 shows your worth 😂
@@UserKR13 Agreed.
@@UserKR13 shows I value my time and money. Not some sheep who wastes years of his life waiting on a “wish list” just to buy a watch that’s in stock lol.
@@UserKR13 ladies and gentlemen, we found the moron who’s begging Rolex to take his money. Congratulations. You fully played yourself.
The flippers can still get a profit if they sell the watches themselves rather than get offered ridiculously lowball offers by grey dealers.
How do you authenticate these pieces? The super clones have been so good. Do you open the back and inspect the movement?
Have you seen a clone good enough to pass as authentic when seen up close? I have not even though I have seen many super clones.
@@HamishCarpenter Modded super clones are indistinguishable without opening the back. I assume any new supplier he checks the movement.
You won’t see super clones in solid gold!
@@zerosilver87 Have you seen one?
I missed the days where I can walk in a boutique and buy any Rolex sport models at a 25% discount. Gone are the days and I hated the flippers, for those who lost money flipping, Thank whichever God up there. I am a watch collector and I don’t sell any of the watches I bought as I enjoy wearing them.
Said it before and I appreciate your main revenue maker is Rolex , but surely its now time to mix up the content and discuss independent brands and other well known brands.
Only so many times you can discuss how popular a ghost is or pepsi....
But he ho its your channel and if its working then good luck , i just feel you would help it grow if you mixed things up a bit.
I’d like to see some more vacheron content
I agree with you. But there are two factors that I think they consider. One is views and I'm sure they did their research on how many views Rolex generates. Second is market information where Rolex is easy to price due to its wide availability. Other watches where you have single units for sale in certain variants in any country are hard to generalize. I don't think people watch for lower categories
Independent brands🧟♂️🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
It’s so boring, I’m literally fed up of looking at Pepsis, who cares anymore?
The finest counsel, it seems, is that which, like a gift unbidden, arrives without solicitation. Indeed, the most valuable pearls of wisdom are those we never thought to ask for😂
The Rolex scarcity myth is like the diamond scarcity myth - the truth of the matter is there’s more around than people want . Rolex have recently decided to build another factory , so surely Rolex are making moves to ensure this inflated pre owned prices will be a thing of the past going forward.
Personally I would not ever buy a Rolex over rrp
The prices are falling but they’re nowhere close to reasonable.
A BLNR on jubilee is still around 4k over retail. A date sub is around 2.5k over. Even a less desirable Roman numeral datejust is around 1k over.
None of these price falls matter if people cannot walk in and buy the watch they want at retail prices.
What Charlie did get right I feel was that the timeline for more normal availability is still a year or so away. There is so much precious metal junk out there and Rolex are seeing $$ before availability becomes normal again.
Very true, still quite a way to go yet! Thanks for watching! 🙌
Wait a minute if flipping is over then where is he getting his inventory from then?!?
🙄
2:30 he explains
Why do second hand car dealers exist ?
Guys do need to sell their cars at even a loss just like guys buying a porsche 911 new and then selling it two years later.
The AD's directly. You can't tell me they are not selling straight to the greys.
If you see less watches coming to the gray market it means there is less demand to buy watches, therefore it is not certain that gray market prices will go up as a result of the general reduced demand
Buy what you like as long as it's reasonable. Compared to Nautilus and AP ROs, Charlie's Rolex prices are quite reasonable and you don't have do the dance. I buy from both Grey market and ADs...just depends on the model. Don't make dumb financial decision and "over-buy", but you also only live once. Enjoy your life, responsibly of course! Cheers gents!
Definitely a great take there! That’s the way to do it 👍
Thanks for watching 🙏
Purchased a GMT batman from a grey dealer and instantly had concerns it was a super clone... It just didnt feel right. The clam popped out of the buckle on first wear. Returned for a refund. I'd never buy grey again having lost confidence if its not an AD watch.
Was the grey dealer in the UK?
@@razakhalid4265 Yes
@@razakhalid4265Did he tell you he was a dishonest watch dealer?
@@BufanMuayThai yes absolutely that was the first thing he said to me… 🛎️ end
@@JamesDenton-pi5hs There you go… Next time go with someone who tells you he’s an honest watch dealer
✊💦
Honest Watch dealer, you are a flipper, FFS. How do you source your new unworn watches....
If someone calls themselves that, then they’re probably not 😂
Honest Watch Dealer but tells you what watches to get from the AD to flip to the gray for more profit all at the expense of the collectors who actually will buy and wear the watch. How is that an "honest" watch dealer?
Would you say the chocolate dial oysterflex daytona is selling slower than the rest? If so, Why is that? Considering its the only dial that was actually discontinued.(PN was changed, not disc)
It has slowed down a bit recently, hard to say why, most likely due to current trends 👍
Charlie, another great and informative video, well done ⭐️⭐️⭐️ I’m just curious, why you never show the black dial/gold OF Daytona (2024 or older) and comment on whenever you talk about that range? Anyways, thanks for all those great videos and postings 👏👏👏
Thank you for watching mate glad you liked this one! When we next one in I will try to include it in the video 👌🏻
YOU are the Rolex flipper 🤣🤣🤣
Have to say I disagree with the flippers comment. I bought a pre-owned Sub from my AD earlier this year so do have spend history but confirmed I’d like to be considered for an alternative to the Sub; not a single contact since, despite me even popping in. Then you jump on Charlie’s site and there’s a June and Aug Batgirl ramped up by approx £6 on list price, how is that not evidence of flipping? There will be countless thousands of people who would love that watch at RRP to keep and wear yet nowhere near getting that call, despite spend history to still be given to people just using sites like LWC.
The best stock right now Charlie is datejust/Gmt/Subs and air kings etc
Yes the stainless steel models for sure 👍
Don’t lump a basic bitch AirKing in the Subs and GMTs.
Charlie you’re a sound guy but come on, you’re a grey market dealer yourself and now you’re low balling flippers and still making a healthy profit. The reality is that Rolex will be closing the loops holes in the next few years and it’s going to back to the 1990s where you can go in and buy a watch and people like Charlie will be out of business permanently. I don’t wish the demise of anyone’s business but this game is not sustainable. It’s dead and guys like Charlie will be out on their ear. Whatever happens Charlie don’t end up like Paul Thorpe and turn this channel into the Alt Right mouth piece 😂😂😂😂
I dont see it like this. A decent second hand market will never die if there is still the demand for the product. A second hand market will survive on margin based on reputation and service.It just means that margin will be below rrp as opposed to above rrp. No different than to say the majority of decent used car dealers. I don’t think Charlie has anything to worry about.
Unbelievable but true!
Well said my friend. Happy someone else sees Thorpe for what he is.
I disagree, there will always be a burgeoning used watch market but they may be selling Rolex watches at lower than MSRP, as it used to be back in the day. The greys will still take their margin it will be the initial buyer that will take the hit, same as selling any used product bought new.
Leave it to a loser lefty like you to turn a watch content video into a sleazy marxist shot at someone who is not a part of the video.
If you ever wonder why people hate sanctimonious leftist, have a look on the mirror.
I’m into the cars and house and the larger houses have dropped 40% off 2021 prices
The super cars and collectible cars have plummeted.
The lower end steel watch prices are artificially still high as are lower end of houses.
This is because people holding big houses and precious metal watches are selling buying cheaper homes n cheaper watches because of the interest rates on debt.
We have another 2-3 years of this at least because it’s taken 12 mths for most people to catch on😏
If your looking to invest buy gold and maybe property in about 12 mths.
Only buy a watch to wear right now 🙏
Perfect explanation
Yes the car and watch markets do generally go hand in hand.
Buying to wear and enjoy is the best way to go now 👌🏻
My AD still won’t offer me anything…
same
Be patient…. They will…
Hopefully you get the call soon mate!
I got 2 calls from 2 different AD’s in June. Picked up a bicolor GMT Master 2 CHNR and a Explorer 2 in white.
Do you have a buying history?
Just got my batman on a ~11k spend with the AD (bought a JLC Ultrathin a year previously); really shows that we're back in more normal times, I think.
How long was the wait? I'm also waiting for a batgirl
@@whitejodeci8926 Name down October, pickup august, about 10 months
My guess, from an accounting standpoint even if the ADs are private companies they are required to take losses on "unsold inventory" at year end.
Been tellling you for the last year the watch market is dead!
Finally was able to purchase a Daytona for a good price. Waited patiently for years and I’m so happy I waited!
Congratulations on your purchase mate, hope you wear it and enjoy it 🙌🏻💯
That meteorite daytona is amazing
Such a unique combination isn't it mate! A really rare, collectible, and stunning timepiece 👌
@@thehonestwatchdealermy dream watch mate
The market will have truly shifted when you can walk into an AD and pick up a steel Sub. The Sub is the bog standard flagship model.
It’s become a lot easier to get but we aren’t like the old days and may never return.
You are selling them left and right over retail and I’m sure still buying them slightly over retail. So, we haven’t seen a complete crash yet. Right now, we are actually still in a hyped up market compared to pre-2016/2017. I picked up my first steel Sub under retail and this was back in 2018… so the idea that market has magically gone back to pre-hype times just isn’t true.
Charlie, when do you think the Bruce Wayne is going to be available at Retail?
If the flipper market is over then when can we expect to buy a Daytona retail?
Basically just down to GMTs then for anyone who wants a watch that appreciates. Or the elusive steel Daytona.
Good luck getting a meteorite GMT for MSRP.
What do you mean “you cannot stock enough?” If you want to increase supply or reduce demand, raise prices…
I would not sell a watch now but have in the past ,before the bubble , profit is never a thing with me . I do not have a meteorite dial but I love the concept . I struggle with the price though!
Yes it’s best to buy what you like! If it turns a profit in the end, added bonus!
It’s the same boring few watches over and over, yawn, everybody is wearing them. Have started selling my Rolex pieces and getting into other brands I think I’ve had enough of the crown although I’d may keep 2-3 pieces. Great watches but can’t stand all the games and not sure if it’s an image I want to portray anymore or a brand I really want to be associated with. Not to mention personal safety and all the places where it’s no longer a good idea to rock a Rolex.
I don’t think I’m alone in my outlook on the brand and I’m a former Rolex fanboy and avid collector.
Bought a new ref ghost recently….. keep having that feeling I should have gone for the rose.
Incredible choice mate the Ghost is incredible, great one to go for 👌🏻
What’s going on with the price of white gold Datejust 41’s with a popular dial?
Still very sought after models, holding well 👍
5 Digit Gold Daytona’s continue to very healthy price rises..
What is a fair price for the 116520 withe dial, full set first random serial outcome ? Year 2010 .. Full set even original Bill... ???? Thank you in advance.
If you want to get in touch via the website we can certainly take a look for you.
Www.theluxurywatchcompany.com
Rolex is building three watch factories in Switzerland, which will start production for the market beginning in 2025. This means that the gap between supply and demand will no longer be as significant, making it much easier to purchase a watch from an authorized dealer, and the grey market will slow down.
I agree, the Rolex flipping game is currently on hold. As with every market cycle, there is a good time to be a buyer and then there is a good time to be a seller. Currently, its a buyers market with low to normal prices.
Low..? hardly😂
“Normal” is when TT etc. can be purchased 20-30% below retail.
We’ll get there for sure so keep the powder dry.
How is this gonna affect the Meteorite GMT?
I love it!! If you lose a few pounds (lord knows I need to do that LOL) so what? You presumably wore and ENJOYED the watch! Market is healing.
Yes the market is definitely shifting to buy to wear and enjoy 👌🏻
We will Be able to get discount on New Watches from AD soon - not all watches but some
The trends seem to suggest this could be a possibility soon 🙌🏻
The very fact you have a 'grey market' says everything you need to know about Rolex, and the dealers who exploit the situation.
There is a grey market for every customer good 😂
Honest John car sales
Honest Charle watch sales
There is no difference
Breguet was once an awaome brand, now it's not much of anything. Let's see where Rolex ends up.
Rolex will always be top dog when it comes to luxury watch sales. Their brand power/recognition is simply too strong especially amongst casuals.
How are you getting watches from sellers with all stickers on when Rolex allegedly won’t let you leave the store without them being removed? I know I’m probably missing something
It’s company policy to remove all factory seals and stickers, however, occasionally a couple are carelessly left on. With fully stickered watches that’s usually down to a historic relationship with a specific dealer 🙌🏻
Can’t keep up. Got one in stock. ?
Total crap
I put my name down for a batgirl, but i got my sub 2 months ago. Whats the usual wait time?
All depends on the specific AD and their stock and the relationship you have with them! But having previous spend history should help. However, typically it’s one steel sports model per year per client 🙌🏻💯
Another great vid, Charlie. Thanks!
Thank you mate I appreciate that! 🙏
Where is the talk on "Flipper Game is Over"?
It’s still got a way to go before we get back to the good old days of being able to get pretty much any model within a month at 10-20% discount. I think it’s coming but it will be Q3 2025 before we see that.
People are still paying £59k for a £29k watch??? Madness.
Can anyone help me to explain is Rolex Wimbledon 41 jubilee bracelet fluted bezel a good watch & does it holds its value on ROI
It will hold its value compared to other datejust models.
@@hershal8431 thank you 🙏
I have a 2024 one, it’s over value according to chrono 24, I bought it to wear not an investment, I got mine at rrp from Rolex ad though
Yes definitely one of the best Datejust’s to go and should hold value well 👌🏻
Put the money in index funds if you are looking for ROI. The watches are not an investment for a regular Joe.
As always enjoyed to watch your videos charlie
Thanks Junaid, I appreciate that!
So. Why are you still ripping people off on your website? I just looked at your prices and they are almost all above retail. Sod off. You talk a lot but you don't follow through.
LOWER YOUR PRICES to 10-15% below retail, take the hit where you overpaid, force sellers to to the same so you make a meager margin and do the right thing.
I had a call just today asking me if I wanted Daytona .. from the AD. These are easy to get. Two months on their list. I said "pass, I already bought one. But I will take a rainbow". .."we will keep it in mind and thank you for your custom".
It's time you do the right thing too.
what daytona was it
Saying "The Flipper game is over" while holding a Daytona that still today has a 100% profit to do this day is CRAzzyyy😂Still i understand your point. Thanks a lot for the videos.
You are very welcome mate, glad you enjoy the content and thanks for watching!
Looks like the watch market is shifting! 🔄
👌🏻
So… the end user shall buy the watch at retail, sell it to you, and take a loss of 15% so you can sell it for a profit. Got it👍🤓
The second hand dealer for in production models, is not needed. The sooner the end user realise this, the better.
Your superb oration can be perfected. Eg. 'fewer' not 'less' when you refer to units. We always look forward to your broadcasts. In Mongolia, the Rolex AD forced one to buy a gold Rolex if he offered you a Daytona. You had to buy a bi-metal watch for a slightly lesser desirable model.
Ah yes those are the typical AD games unfortunately 👎
Thanks for watching!
@@thehonestwatchdealer I admire your talent for business.
@@michaelturner7949 thanks Michael! 🙏
Stop the bs… you also participate to the flipper game, that’s the nature of your business 😂
Of course, he plays both sides.
Absolutely silly. You are not defining ‘flipper’ properly if you consider a good gray market dealer as a flipper.
He facilitates the flippers. How can he otherwise get brand new merch?
@@bigc208 obvious things are obviously not so obvious for certain people 😂
@@chrisgtx2630 Aparently. Without reliable middlemen, like Charlie, buying used luxury watches become risky business.🙂
What's the difference between the batman and batgirl?
Bracelet. Oyster on batman. Jubilee on batgirl
For me, one of the biggest issues in wearing a big piece like a solid gold Daytona or GMT is the risk. Sadly in the big UK, Italian, French and Spanish cities (and no doubt more), you are literally a walking target, plain and simple. I am aware of someone trying to steal a Rolex from someone on the stair case of a very nice hotel in Barcelona recently....inside the hotel !!! I genuinely think this is starting to have an impact, as there's little point in spending 35k+ on a watch that's just not safe to wear. When I go out in London for beers, I wear a G-Shock, not my Daytona, Deepsea or Sub.........it's a sad world.
ANOTHER INFORMATIVE CLIP WAS WONDERING IF YOU WOULD DO ONE ON AFTERMARKET RUBBER STRAPS AND WHICH BRANDS YOU WOULD RECOMMEND AS WAS THINKING OF GETTING ONE FOR MY EXPLORER 2 JUST TO BE A BIT DIFFERENT AND ALSO TO PROTECT THE STEEL STRAP AS I DAILY IT AND AM SO CONSCIOUS OF IT GETTING IT BADLY SCRATCHED
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
Thanks mate really appreciate that, glad you enjoyed the video!
Yes plenty of choice regarding aftermarket straps, great idea I will see what I can do
Is the pikachu yellow gold?
who cares
Yes
It sure is 👍
That chocolate Daytona is killer.
Stunning isn’t it! 👌🏻
@@thehonestwatchdealer indeed, my friend!
That is correct. A flipper is a business or individual immediately transacting new watches for profit.
A pre-owned market means truly worn and then sold months or years later. Selling new watches immediately is a flipper.
A business like this takes watches away from people who would like to buy a watch a retail. They are obtaining brand new watches. There is no other way to look at. They are part of the problem. Sorry
I am confused. You are a flipper correct?
4:25 some you sell for just over list... 8k sub selling for 11.4k...
Thank you for the video
You are very welcome mate 👍
I bought a full gold Blusey for 29k, from a dealer 5.5k under list. Happy days
Congratulations mate, stunning watch - enjoy it! 🙌
You offered me £150 over list, for a new unworn Bluesy, fully stickered. FFS, christ these people. The watch market is dead, and they grey market is on life support.
Maybe buy a watch to wear then
@@krugmeup2162 I have several . Thanks
you can walk in and buy one, I have two :D
Surprised he offered a penny over list tbh
@@stevereilly💯 tomorrow morning in any UK town
The Honest Watch Dealer content is one of the best on TH-cam. Really terrific stuff. Thank you.
Thank you mate I really appreciate that! 🙌
HWD… at 4.12… what brand is that Watchcase???
This is one of our own watch rolls.
You can find them on our website under ‘Merchandise’
Www.theluxurywatchcompany.com
I love these weekly videos, so informative
And you summed it up perfectly, buy what you like, and just wear it!!
Thanks mate I really appreciate that! Yes that is definitely the way to go! 👌🏻
That sun dust Daytona is incredible every time it’s featured here.
Such a great model isn’t it 👌🏻
Who in the right mind, buys a relatively new used Rolex watch at above recommended retail price? I'm not that desperate. I'd rather buy an Omega. Less bling and classier.
Normal people buy a Rolex and wear it, they don’t sell it after 12 months. If people stop buying as an investment and buy to wear the watch then the average age of a watch entering the grey market will be more like 5 or 10 years old.
yes, the watch market is dead! grey market dealers need to go back to selling discounted watches
Enjoyable video Charlie I agree flipping is over. It's a more sensible market now.
Glad to hear you’re enjoying the content mate, appreciate it! The market seems a much healthier place at the minute 🙌🏻💯
was able to pick up full set 126619LB for $13,700 below retail!
Congratulations mate, enjoy it! 🙌
Still no inventory in Canada authorized dealers. Grey market dealers have every watch imaginable at a 25-30% premium. Someone is feeding these grey market .
The Exhibition Only signs have been removed from the AD window. Good times!
@bobbydazzler1780 . REALLY 🤔🙏
This weekend i tried on a steel daytona, he asked me if id rather have the white or black one...... i would say we are finally out of the flipper game..... thank god
Ah incredible! Both great options 👌🏻 hopefully you get the call soon!
@@thehonestwatchdealer i told him id think about it..... dont know if i havent seen panda in person
@@michielroskam3877 ah yes make sure you see one in person beforehand 👍
There's no scarcity in the second hand market. Every second listing online is a Rolex lol
I want an Air King in the future, hopefully the AD’s will stop their silly games and just sell the watches that they have
If you find the right AD you will get the watch you want. It’s not hard at all to get an Air King from the AD.
Fingers crossed you can get one in the collection soon! 👍
Did you add a CoD hit marker sound at 10 seconds 😆😆
Melbourne Australia offered DJ 41 SS/G today 26/8
Best to pass on the bi-metal models! 👍
Prices won’t go up in the grey market. It’ll go back to how it was before, where you would buy a watch and 5 or 10 years later you could sell it for pretty much what you paid due to MSRP going up.
Is anyone being offered discounts yet on solid gold items. I've been waiting for a white gold oysterflex Daytona and just been offered white gold bracelet? Seems a few people are now being offered these.
Yes they are struggling to shift the full gold pieces! There has been stories of a few discounts, maybe more will start to be offered!
Would you take a full white gold, black dial or pass. Its not really what I want but its a nice watch.
😂.. here in Perth Australia too.. my AD finally “called” to let me know that I am Lucky to be offered the gold Sky champ on Oflex for a bargain $68600 !! 😅 $15k over grey .. NEXT!!!!
Ahh yes definite pass! 🙌
Nice clickbait video title and theme. Precious metal pieces have always had less demand and have always been easier to get your hands on from the AD. And yes, it's not news that these models have been flipped on the grey market / second hand market for below retail as people are still buying those to build their profile. Stainless steel sports models and usually the steel pieces have always been highly desirable and the demand has not dropped at all. "The market is just not there" - biggest lie, the respect and honesty has really walked out the door with this video.
…AD’s sold more bluesies back in 2003-2004 than 16610LV
TT Daytona was also super popular at the time they came with the 116523.
All said and done, what most can afford will be “voted” as the most popular, based on people not having the funds to get the top notch cool stuff.
If you can’t fly, it’s easier to claim it’s better on the ground.
35k for a sky dweller wrapped in rubber-is not only classless--but insane.
Ill buy the tokyo seamaster 👍