Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Christmas Webinar here Www.mythvisionpodcast.com/christmas I look forward to seeing what Dr. Ehrman goes into on December 5th all day! I will be there and hope to see you all there as well.
2:45 the Qur'an doesn't say Jesus was substituted with someone else the substitution theory has no support from Quran or ahadith it's just a belief which is used to fill in the gaps because Quran leaves the event ambiguous Maulana(Islamic scholar) Maududi writes in his exegesis of the Quran called Tafhimul Qur'an “The Qur'an is silent about the nature and the details of the matter” Sheikh Ahmad Deedat a prominent Islamic preacher said the Arabic words found in the Qur’an “shubiha lahum does not mean someone was substituted"
The Quran doesn’t say that somebody was crucified in the place of Jesus, it simply says that he wasn’t crucified and that it appeared to them as such. It’s open to interpretation
@Jesus Or Muhammad yeah I’m with you Galatians 1:8 speaks on if any angel deliver gospels other than this let him be cursed and as for Muhammad well Having male relative divorce his wife so Muhammad could marry him , having someone beheaded then widow marry him , receiving a revelation saying that God has 3 goddesses , killing people sex slaves , said if He delivered revelation not from God then let his aorta be cut,, he was later poisoned and died much later saying felt like his aorta cut in his own words and fishes revelations he was a false prophet so I’ll safely say that this is Muslims prophet Muhammad then they definitely NOT have the right version of Jesus 🤷🏻♂️
@Jesus Or Muhammad I'm curious, since you're basing your salvation on the writings of the Bible and specifically the NT, which is said to be inspired by God and some even say it is the verbatim word of God, I was just wondering whether you could tell us the full names of the four gospel writers Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
@@peacebeuntoyou8934 It is not known what the full names are, people in those days did not usually have last names, whatever the names are it does not change that what is written is written, the events of the New Testament came before the New Testament was written, so whoever wrote it does not change the events.
@@shanebell2514 It's not just that you don't have the Full names, you don't even have the actual authors' names. What you have is anonymous people writing under anonymous first names, something on which you're willing to stake your salvation. You can argue and bash Islam till the cows come home, out of ego, or pride, but it's not going to do you any good in the hereafter. It would be better for you to realise this sooner rather than later, but even later is better than never.
I Believe he understands more then he claims to know but he walks on eggshells fir fear of losing his audience. I just find it hard to believe a man as astute as Mr Ehrman has not done any or a basic reading on Islam and the Islamic prospective of Jesus. Over the years ive come to the conclusion that his views of who Jesus was according to the historical proofs they have is closer to the Muslim point of view then the Christian. This is a fact not just my opinion. I would like to also say ive been a fan of his for over 20 years.
@@EscapeRoomCleveland yh his audience is mainly of the atheist persuasion and i too believe there maybe some audience catering as well when I see him (a scholar) making huge blunders when speaks about the freakin basics of Islam.
@@EscapeRoomClevelandThis I agree with. He confused sources, I want to say the crucifixion substitute is Gos. Of Barnabas? Maybe? Regardless, I don't think he was being disingenuous, just has a lot of information to parse mid speech.
@@EscapeRoomClevelandmost of his audience are atheist and Muslims. Muslims buy his books more than anyone because he criticized Christianity. He no favorite of ours
@@EscapeRoomCleveland I don't think it's completely about his audience but more about his safety. Look at what they did to Salman Rushdie. When it comes to Izlam everyone filters their words carefully, the followers of Izlam are on free pass on being violent.
I remember in a conference when Bart was asked if he is going to study the Koran, and he answered that he is not crasy to study it. So now he is trying to avoid the point that islam see Jesus as a man and a prophete. On the other hand, bart he is not a specialist of islam or arabic, or Koran.
yeah Allah need GENIUS MUSLIM like u to call CP to SAVE ISLAM. Christian Prince th-cam.com/channels/7wffWCb-k1F7oEyGMR8TTg.html The Arabian Prophet th-cam.com/channels/OllN2W9yT4ZYaSgTkqzhhg.html
@@kurotsuki2827 You are right! Most of them read the Quran in English, French or other language. Having said that, the truth about Jesus is laid in the Quran. Allah said in the Noble Quran: There is nothing whatever like unto Him. This koranic verse is a bombshell for Trinity Doctrine. He also said about Himself: He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none whatsoever equal or comparable unto Him. If He sees everything, if He hears everything and if He controls everything, then He iss capable to what He said in the Quran. the most logical version about Jesus' death is Islamic one. I'm a Muslim Arab: شبه لهم (Shubbiha lahum) the translation in English to make appear and also to replace.
@@kurotsuki2827 1000000000% fact you nailed it they blindly except everything from there scholars without question. Jesus died according to the Quran he is not over 2000 years old alive in space or the cosmos like a astronaut!
Correction, the Quran never says someone else was crucified or substituted. The Quran simply says that he was no crucified that it appeared to them so. This means everyone thought he was crucified. No mention of a substitution or anything else. It also says they who claim he was crucified only follow conjecture. Case in point, EVERYONE IS STILL debating the crucifixion. Historically the Qurans statement is accurate.
@@apo.7898 One event vs existence of a person who lived for 60+ years, had more than 100k followers during his lifetime, has a continuous bloodline and has a tomb which is visited by millions annually
@@kashifkhan-yr8wi You should pay attention to what someone says before commenting. Muhammad either existed or he did not exist. The same is true about the crucifixion. Either it happened or it did not happen. If someone says 'it appeared to have havepened', they should explain how and why.
@Jesus Christ Is Lord you're just ignorant, you do realize arab christians in palestine pray to allah to right? They say allahu akbar and all that, to them allah is the father, so regardless of what you think about the prophets (Jesus and Muhammad S.A.W), you shouldn't disrespect allah like that, also, why he didn't preserve them previous books is simply because it wasn't promised, all the prophets came with their own miracles, Jesus healed and brought the dead etc, we believe all that as muslims btw, Muhammad S.A.W miracle was the Quran, as he couldn't write or read along with the promise of preservation as he's the last prophet and the quran is literally the word of God communicated to the prophet thro Angel Gabriel hence the preservation, the literature of the quran in arabic standards is the highest, my first language is arabic and even i search the meaning of words from the quran in the dictionary sometimes, the way it's written, the scientific facts, super relatable and everything about it couldn't have been made by a human period.
@@sharjeelxd9852 Isaiah 20:2-3 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. 3And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; Ezekiel 4:12 And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung (💩that cometh out of man, in their sight. XD
hey respect the dragon ballsZ believers We pray to the monkey king/SunWuKong/SonGoKu Our scriptures are journey to the west (old) & dragon balls Z (new)😄
With all my respect, Quran didn't copy Jesus stories from any gospel, and for example, a miracle that Jesus spoke when he was just born isn't mentioned in any book For sure there are some similarities, bcz we believe God sent many prophets with one msg, worship One God, from Adam, Moses, Jesus, then last Muhammad peace be upon them all
I heard that there is one book(by st.Thomas if im not mistaken) mentioned that but im not it is copied from it rather it confirms the accuracy of the Qur'an.
@@yagamilight6261 Arabian language wasn't even standardized like nowadays back before the Quran came, and only a handful of Arabians could read and write. Pretty impossible to copy a book from a different language at that time. Even if Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arab languages were Semitic languages, they're thousand years apart from each other and evolved separately.
The Quran states in 4:157: "But they neither killed nor crucified him-it was only made to appear so.", notice the phrase: "IT WAS ONLY MADE TO APPEAR SO", meaning Quran confirms that that's what people witnessed and believed to be what had happened. Hence, there is no contradiction between Quran and the "historic" Jesus, as far as the crucifixion is concerned. I don't understand how an intellectual like Bart Ehrman and others don't seem to understand such a simple concept. Secondly, there is no evidence that the infancy gospels were present in the Arabian peninsula in the 7th century, or anywhere else for that matter, in anyone's possession that is. We Muslims actually believe that this is the proof for Islam, rather then it being the case that Quran copied it from these gospels. Dr Ehrman says that the Quran copied it from these gospels, as if there is a proof for it, which there isn't, and it is only his assumption.
@Jesus Or Muhammad Can you show me where in the Quran or Hadith it says that someone else was put on the cross instead of Jesus? That's another thing Dr Erhman gor wrong that I forgot to mention. Nowhere does it say in the Quran that someone else was put on the cross instead of Jesus. Secondly, we do believe that Jesus was raised onto God and will return in a second coming, so that should answer your question about the tomb. Lastly, Jesus clearly and explicitly identifies the Father as "the only true god" in John 17. You Christians chose ambiguous verses of other people over clear statements of Jesus in the Bible and proclaim divinity. You don't have the concept of Trinity in the Bible, so you're deceiving your own self and blaming God. Can you tell me why you go against Jesus when he identifies the Father as the only true God in John 17?
The other guy is right, it makes no sense for god to make it look like Jesus was crucified when he wasn't. This is clearly one of the many things M just made up or plagiarized.
@@jesan733 That guy went on a rant on the idea that someone else was put on the cross in place of Jesus and I told him that's not something that we necessarily believe. The substitution theory was only a hypothesis put forth by some Islamic scholars as a possible explanation of what might have happened. This idea is not found in the Quran or Hadith. That guy replied to my comment with this: "So you admit its a problem if Quran says someone else was put on the cross instead of Jesus", which is quite silly, as was the rest of his reply, and so I ended the discussion there. However, I can discuss with you whether or not it makes sense that God made it look like Jesus was crucified and killed, but in reality saved him as is stated in the Quran. There are many reasons and evidences from the Bible itself for why it makes perfect sense that Jesus was not killed or crucified, but was saved by God. Here are a few of them: 1. Jesus was reluctant to die and he and his disciples were preparing for a fight. If his mission was to die on the cross for the sins of mankind as claimed Christians, there was no need to fight. "... and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." - [Luke 22:36]. 2. He begged God to save him. "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" - [Mathew 26:39]. 3. It makes more sense for God to accept his prayer then reject it. "...cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission." [Hebrews 5:7]. Also according to [John 11:42], we know that God always hears Jesus' prayers: "I knew that you always hear me.". Also read Psalms chapter 1, especially verse 1-8. What I've listed here are perhaps the best evidences that I know for why it makes perfect sense for Jesus to be saved by God and not be crucified or killed. Whether or not this happened in reality or not is a different discussion and there are plenty of evidences that I can share with you from the bible that indicate that Jesus was alive and didn't die on the cross.
@@sameerzahid3544 well, tbh both islamic version or christian version, it really doesn't make a sense for normal man like me the christian version will give you a question, like "then where is his body??" or "why is he crucified if he's the god?" the islamic version will give you a question, like "how does this possible if all of the witnesses are literally watching those event without knowing if it's faked?" or "why did the god deceiving those people?" so, as a normal man who believe in only one god. I'm a moslem btw Well, i don't know which one is actually correct, but as a moslem i would prefer the islamic version but this event is not something that we have to debate because NO ONE knows accurately except the god, the crucified man, and jesus himself also this event is happened way back in the past, more than 2000 years ago...there is no camera back then :( and yeah i agree with your opinion on god can do whatever he wants, so i literally have no idea what actually happened what i really don't know is why christians have trinity idea? a lot of people are knew that it was man made, it didn't even exists in early scriptures. but why? what are their motive of making this kind of idea?
I love that Bart is out promoting these webinars he's doing because he's been on all of my favorite TH-cam channels talking to people who otherwise wouldn't ever get a chance to dialogue with him. He's such an intelligent and interesting guy. In the last couple months he probably has been in 5x the amount of TH-cam content as the last couple years.
That's because he is becoming irrelevant and his supposed contradictions in the Bible have been debunked. He now has to put himself out there to the low hanging fruit that is actually gullible enough to believe what he says.
Mate he is not intelligent! The first thing he said was incorrect so how is he intelligent? It's all his opinions and no references or facts. Please just because some person has an option it doenst make him intelligent. Use your own brain and study what he is talking about and learn for yourself stop listening to lies and ignorant people because ultimately it makes you ignorant.
Muhammad (PBUH) was a military leader, but it’s not accurate to call him a warlord. He’s nothing like for example Genghis Khan, where they conquer and commit mass genocide. His early followers (E.G - Umar) would take land and liberate Coptic Christians/Jews from Roman occupation and same with Sasanians. They conquered land simply because they believed it was justice. Also it would’ve been better to expand on what the concept of God, between early Christians view and Islamic Theology. As the Professor previously said in Muslim podcast there’s elements of truth that Christ worshipped one God and was not viewed as a God, but referred to as Son of God in a Jewish context.
If someone has not read The Qur'aan or about the Life (Seerah of Muhammad the prophet peace be upon him should stay silent. As most speak about Muhammad out of ignorance.
True! Islam brought actual freedom for the people with the abolition of lending with interest, which was a way to get people to work for free in order to pay their ever-increasing debts, which was basically slavery. Islam finished with the practice. Reference: History of Debt, by David Graeber.
My friend they keep saying the same thing for so many years , they saying Mohammed was a warlord as they saying but the big mistake they keep doing is that they even didn’t read their own book which saying ( Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.), again we keep telling them read about our prophet Mohammed ( pbuh) first look to ((Islamic resource)) then choose whatever he was a warlord or no .
if Quran is the copy of the early scriptures it would not challenge mankind and the Jinn Kind to go and bring something like it imagen if i copy something from Charles Dickens and make a claim to the world to bring something like it or something close enough.
@@superanonymous467 see this is not the only claim that the Quran makes .. did the Quran consent scientists about the scientific facts that are mentioned in it since 1400 years ago ?? .. what you are missing here is the key word "independent" which means that Islam has it's own image (not actually a picture) of jesus far away from what christians believe what jesus was or did or claims to be.
@@KakashiBallZ he heard stories about a lot of people the Arabs use to tell stories around the camp fire all the times why Jesus?and why he never mixes up the stories between the Prophets?why Mohammed peace be upon him is telling us all the good things about Jesus Christ peace be upon him which Christian threatened him look Mohammed if you dont put the name of my Lord and savior in your Book i will not do Business with you?as a leader as a ruler of Arabia it is more beneficial for Mohammed pbuh to be friends with the Jews but he is telling the Jews Jesus Christ is a true messenger and a Prophet and his Mother is the Chosen one he is offending the Arabs also why would an Arab glorify a Jewish woman?besides the stories Christians believe in about Jesus Christ are either rejected in Islam or corrected what stories are you talking about?.
“So much about the circumstances of my becoming a Muslim. Since then I have been asked, time and again: ‘Why did you embrace Islam? What was it that attracted you particularly?’ and I must confess that I do not have any single satisfactory answer. It was not any particular teaching that attracted me, but the whole wonderful, inexplicably coherent structure of moral teaching and practical life-programme. I could not say, even now, which aspect of it appeals to me more than any other. Islam appears to me like a perfect work of architecture. All its parts are harmoniously conceived to complement and support each other; nothing is superfluous and nothing lacking; and the result is a structure of absolute balance and solid composure. Probably this feeling that everything in the teachings and postulates of Islam is ‘in its proper place’ had created the strongest impression on me. There might have been, along with it, other impressions as well which today it is difficult for me to analyze. After all, it was a matter of love; and love is composed of many things: of our desires and our loneliness, of our high aims and our shortcomings, of our strengths and our weaknesses. So it was in my case. Islam came over to me like a robber who enters a house by night; but, unlike a robber, it entered to remain for good.” [Islam at the Crossroads, p.11, by Muhammad Asad (a.k.a. Leopold Weiss)]
@@kendarwitz5071 Anyone who believes all that nonsense about being visited by an angels and such must be lacking in a lot of metal skills such a grasp of basic logic. You are to be pitied. I feel sorry for your condition, and I only hope that at some point reality will kick in and you will see things for what they really are.
@Jesus Or Muhammad That’s not what the Qur’an says - there’s absolutely no flying carpet anywhere in the Qur’an. What you’ve, irresponsibly, did: you’ve cut from whatever loathsome source(s) you did and, then, pasted it without ascertaining such misinformation. You’ve, probably, licked what you’ve cut-and-pasted, but you, really, need to learn how to chew and digest before you think you hit the jackpot. I understand you’re incapable to verify information especially if you’re driven, and all fogged out, by some sort of inherited animosity.
Not just prophet, but also the Virgin-born Messiah and messenger of God ❤️ The blessed son of Mary, who faithfully worshipped God and taught others to do the same
@@AmirRahim19 No.Jesus said " Me and Father are ONE" and " He who saw me ,has seen the Father ".Gospel isnt a concept.He is a being. Jesus said he has the WHOLE POWER ,and he did it by forgiving sinns.
And (remember) when ‘Îsâ (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allâh unto you, confirming the Taurât [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.1 But when he (Ahmad i.e. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) came to them with clear proofs, they said: "This is plain magic." Al Quran Chapter 61 verse 6 - Translation by Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan
If it confirms how does the Torah and gospel say Jesus will die and rise? This shows that the quran is in error concerning prophecy and historical accounts. Isaiah 53, gen 3:15, psalm 81. The whole new testament show Jesus died and rose
@@demanitorres5925 thank you for your question. The thing is for us muslims - when we refer to religious texts before we learn and study it we need to consider several factors. 1) is there a chain of narration and chronology to show when, where and the context of the verses were revealed. In in islam we literally have a chain of narration and these narrations are graded according to quality from the strongest link to the weakest link. (2) do we have these verses in the original language of the speaker that is the prophet who received this revelation? Are there copies memorised verbatim in the original language of the prophet? (3) how about original manuscripts that are carbon dated to around the era of the prophe5 he lived? And can we compare these ancient manuscripts to modern books and were there changes made or did it remain the same as it was revealed 1500 yesrs ago ( 4) Are there errors , inconsistents in the religious text? ( 5) How was the religious text compiled? Now i am sure you can understand why when i do research on the Quran vs research on the Bible the differences are obvious. The Quran in terms of the original language, prservation, chain of narration, carbon dating of ancient manuscripts and the fact that 1500 years it is the same Quran as of now, the same verses in the same language, about a few million people memorising in totality from the first chapter to final chapter...the Quran is able to meet these standards and more. When it comes to Bible these issues are not resolved and many many christians themselves who are experts and phDs in the bible acknowledge these issues. So if the Bible itself has so many issues - i feel it is now more a man made text and not the verbatim word of God. Thus refering to the Bible does not make sense to me since facts show that it does NOT reveal the original revelation that Prophet Jesus ( peace be upon him) but is just man made verses. You can refer to books written by Prof Jerald Dirks or other bible experts. To me the Quran meets all these standards and has no errors. In fact coming from a medical and science background i find some verses in the Quran amazing & scientifically accurate. The Quran is not a science textbook but a Book of Signs . But given the fact that the current text now in the Quran is exactly the same as 1500 years ago, we only have one version of the quran in Arabic and some verses i have read there is no way a bunch of illiterate pagan arabs can know that type of science 1500 years ago - to me its proof those verses are from the Creator. Plus the Quran is linguistically amazing and is consistent and accurate. The bible simply has too many, many mistakes especially if you go back to Greek language ...and Prophet Jesus spoke Aramaic ..hence again many things have been lost in translating from Aramaic to Greek and we dont have the aramaic manuscripts all lost in time. And to top it off - the jews do not accept the old testament verses used by the christians saying the version used by the christians dont match their holy books completely but there are changes made with verses omitted or re-written. Again the lack of preservation of the bible comes up..so i find difficult to accept the texts from the bible.
@@lilyrosesoul0077 there are more then 30 Arabic versions of the quran. Please stop lying. All u have to do is look up on TH-cam someone showing the different Arabic versions. As for science in the quran meteors shooting spirit beings or sperm coming from the backbone and ribs isn't scientifically. If we are looking at a historical analysis of Jesus the quran is not fit to tell history on Jesus as its written 600 plus years after his death. The fact that the quran denies his death even though its attested all throughout history shows its not hisiturcally accurate when referring to Jesus. Jesus spoke multiple languages, no where is Jesus limited to one language, its not uncommon for someone during that time to speak more then one language. He also spoke Hebrew aswell not just Aramaic. Please give me a supposed mistake or contradiction and I can use the resources I have and give you harmonization of the text. Anyways even if thr Bible had contradictions that puts the Quran at odds with itself, since the quran states allah gave the Torah and gospel down that would mean his words have changed. Either he wasn't strong enough to protect his word or he didn't care enough to protect his word. Also lets not forget allah according to the quran states he deceived those to beleive Jesus died. He is called the best of deceivers. You are following Satan unknowingly when you trust in the master deceiver. Look at the evidence of whether Jesus died or not and anyone with a honest heart towards truth will see that the quran was simply lying in surah 4 157
@@demanitorres5925 there is only 1 version of the quran in arabic. If you choose to get your information from islamicphobic websites then you will be getting the wrong information. If you choose to believe only wrong information about islam then you are already there. At least on my part i have done research from credible sources before making up my mind about which holy text has been preserved and actually going to bonafide sources instead of just regurgitating information from hate groups. Notice in my discussion i dont insult you or your faith, unlike you. Thats because in the Quran i am commanded to have a dialouge with non-believers based on grace and wisdom. Who else but God would command humans to behave in such a way? it takes courage to learn to read and think..if you feel comfortable please try learning islam from positive, clean sources. I shall share some links and info for you to check out if you wish. BUT if you have satisfied yourself that you prefer to remain as you without confirming for yourself about islam - thats ok. There is no such thing as forcing a person to believe and everybody has the freedom to choose - ultimately its your life and your soul.
@@demanitorres5925 21. Had We sent down this Quran on a mountain, you would surely have seen it humbling itself and rending asunder by the fear of Allah. Such are the parables which We put forward to mankind that they may reflect . 22. He is Allah, than Whom there is La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen (open). He is the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. 23. He is Allah than Whom there is La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the King, the Holy, the One Free from all defects, the Giver of security, the Watcher over His creatures, the All-Mighty, the Compeller, the Supreme. Glory be to Allah! (High is He) above all that they associate as partners with Him. 24. He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names . All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. Quran Chapter 57 verse 22 go 24
If the Quran has bits copied from the Bible (based on the similarity argument) then you must also agree that the bible has bits copied from the Torah (old testaments) by the exact same argument. We say that islam or the Quran does have similarities with the previous scripture because it has the exact same author. Hence explaining similarities between the Bible and Torah. However the Quran and Torah have way more similarities (especially when it comes to God and his oneness) than compared with the bible. That is very interesting and already says alot. Jews would anytime and anyday tell you that muslims are closer to them (in doctrine) than christians (trinitarians).
@Jesus Or Muhammad Like we already said. You are proving our point. If prophet Mohammed pbuh had heard stories and then retold them this would be the 'similarty argument'. This would apply in the exact same way to biblical Jesus who 'has heard stories from the jews and retold it but in the wrong way'. You cannot EVER attack islam without attacking your own scripture. The Prophet did not make a mistake vut you did. Did you forget to mention that the Quran says both scriptures have been CORRUPTED? Or did you conveniently leave that out? That means if the Prophet cited the Torah exactly as it is NOW he would have recited a CORRUPTED book and would be contradicting himself. Therefore he recited what he says was the actual message which is similar but not fully. So now you have a challenge. Who is telling the truth the Quran or current day Torah or Bible. To simply say well its the Bible or Torah is not an argument. You kust provide proof that the bible of today is the original scripture an secondly it is the word of God. First you have to establish the bible is the truth. The Quran can be proven to be the word of God in 2 different ways. 1 via the previous scriptures. But more importantly number 2. In and on itself. The Quran stands on itself and does not in any way shape or from lean on previous scripture except that which is mentioned in the Quran and was also mentioned in previous scriptures. Tell you what. You prove the bible is from God. We will prove the Quran is from God. What does not qualifiy as proof? - Bible (or Quran)saying it is the truth (circular argumentation). - Other scriptures and references - (first hand) accounts and testimonies as all religions have those and defeat eachother. Can you prove the bible is the word of God? Go!
@Jesus Or Muhammad Thats a great story. But not very interested. Its just a story. Different peoples have differenf stories. Some believe in santa. Thats very great. Now lets talk proof. Can you prove the Bible is from God without using other scriptures or testimonies? Simple question. All this talk but yet you have to establish that the bible is indeed from God first. While you just Simple skip this whole step and just take it to be so. We do understand logic when we see it. So give us some logic to prove the bible is from God or we will give you logic to prove the bible is not from God! Just to clarify. Since you don't seem to catch on. We believe there was once a book called the Bible or Injeel given to Prophet Jesus. We DO NOT believe that the current day bible is that book. So now you need to provide proof. Again: No using other scriptures. No testimonies and first hand accounts. No circular arguments (bible says so). Now go. We are waiting. To be fair you can of course ask us to prove the Quran is from God on a stand alone basis. We will provide!
@@theislamicjourney960 Yes the Bible is from God, Jesus miracles are proof of his divine nature. Muslims don’t understand why Jesus made himself the lamb for the sins of humanity. He proof his divinity by resurrecting himself from the dead after been crucified. The quran makes claims that have no grounds nor witnesses to it. Ask Jesus to show you the truth, and do it from the heart, he will reveal the truth to you. Hope you come to Jesus before it is too late.
@Jesus Or Muhammad The man asked you so many times to prove if the Bible we have to day is from God and you some how can't prove that, because you can't prove it. If Christianity means the one who follows Jesus Christ the son of Marry than We Muslims are more Christians than Christians them selves.
I personally have a ton of respect for Reza Aslan. Zealot was the first book that I had ever read about the historical Jesus. I have read several more books on the topic since and I don’t think that I agree with all of Aslan’s conclusions. However, Zealot was the book that made me interested in the historical Jesus in the first place. It was also that interest that lead me to MythVision Podcast! 😉
I think Mohammed as a prophet is more comparable to Moses rather than Jesus. The life of Jesus has much less aspects in terms of politics, struggle against powerful enemies, family life, nation establishment and leadership, emigration, daily life guidelines and delivering a detailed jurisprudence through an exhaustive holy book.
I disagree. Jesus and Moses were both under threat of death when they were born. Both went down to Egypt. Both had power over the elements, Muhammad couldn't do miracles says the Quran. Both Jesus and Moses fed the multitudes miraculously. Moses said the prophet would come from the Jews. Jesus said he was he who Moses spoke of. Even in death neither grave could be found but we know but we know where Muhsmmed is buried. All the prophets in the Old Testament came from the line of Isaac not Ishmael. God told Abraham the promises would be reckoned through Isaac not Ishmael. And who is the greater prophet? Jesus was born sinless. Muhammad sinned says the Qur'an. Jesus did many miracles, healed the sick, raised the dead, walked on water, calmed storms, fed the multitudes and all Muhammad did in the Qur'an is tell the Jews and Christians he couldn't do miracles. Where is Muhammad now? Waiting to cross a pole hoping he will be alright. He even got his followers to pray it would go well for him when he goes before Allah. Jesus confidently knew where he was going when he died. He committed himself to God as he breathed his last earthly breathe. Jesus is with God right now and is coming back to judge the world. Doesn't that tell who the greatest prophet is? Jesus fulfills over 300 Messianic Old Testament prophecies. You can't even find Muhsmmad in the Old or New Testaments. Muslims desperately try but he simply isn't there. I've read them numerous times and some of the Muslim suggestions are ridiculous.
@@denisHolySpirit Muhammad couldn't do miracles, nor Moses or Jesus. God made miracles and showed them through his prophets. Muhammad has arguably more miracles than any other prophet. Muhammad for example watered multitudes like Moses, and fed multitudes like Jesus, as recorded and witnessed by thousands in the trench battle. Moses never said that prophets will always come from jews. God is just and sent prophets to nations, including nations before Judaism. The graves of Moses and Jesus are well known in Palestine (the Khan Al Ahmar and the sepulcher, although Jesus is not buried there as he was raised). The promises were given to Abraham and his children. The claims that Jacob got these promises to himself and his children by defeating G_D or angel or by fooling his father are heretical claims to the least. Muhammad and all the prophets are sinless, although they may make unintentional mistakes. Like Quran, Bible says that about Jesus too. In spite of being confident about their rewards in heaven, Muhammad kept telling believers not to be arrogant and advised them to keep asking God to forgive their sins and to give them higher and higher places in paradise. While there are many prophecies and indications about Muhammad found in the bible, and many rabbis and pastors would tell you that and some of them I know converted to Islam, but I am still happy that you are exerting your effort to prove that Jesus was a prophet like Moses. BTW, prophets are humans not gods.
@Jesus Or Muhammad Yes I understand your point. The similarities I mentioned should not imply that the content of the holy books are the same. The Muslims understanding is that the original Torah was manipulated and distorted by people after Moses. You can easily find several historical, scientific and logical mistakes and contradictions in it. The main focus in the bible now is on stories and genealogical trees with very little on jurisprudence and hardly anything about life after death. Sometimes it even offends G_D. This is why God sent other prophets after Moses to re-direct people into the right way again. The Christian bible had a similar fate, except that the book revealed to Jesus is entirely lost. Quran's main focus is on jurisprudence and foundations of faith. Quran corrects some of the main stories in Torah wherever there can be a sermon or a lesson for us.
@Jesus Or Muhammad 1-with all respect, Jews can use your arguments against Christians too. 2-The fact that the Bible is manipulated is well known among scholars. In fact you don't even need to be a scholar to see the differences between current denomination, let alone the changes over the long history. 3- the main point I say is that Quran recognizes Jesus's gospels and Torah as books from god that are distorted later by people. If the message of Moses remains the same, there wouldn't be a need for Jesus or any new prophets after Moses. This is also why Quran is different from Torah as you mentioned.
In Islam there isn't too much specifically about Jesus to really do too much comparisons with like historical studies of Jesus(A). But yeah, being seen as not God makes more sense in general. For the crucifixion issue, it's basically a miracle in Islam. We believe it was made to appear as if it was Jesus being crucified but it wasn't him (potentially someone else was made to look like him). But there are a few interesting supporting points. The Bible says Jesus says something like "God why did you forsake me", which seemed out of character. And if he wasn't really crucified it might actually make the resurrection scenario make more sense where people were seeing him. Then there was also the point where someone who saw him couldn't recognize Jesus (potenial of Jesus swapping appearance with whoever was crucified). The Quran actually doesn't even bring up these points but interesting these things are found in the Bible. But since this is a miracle event not much else to really argue about. The clay bird getting life is pretty interesting too especially if there isn't much backing that it was well known in Arabia although I did hear there was actually an infancy gospel found with that event. Something to keep in mind is that Muhammad(S) was an illiterate man and there isn't much backing of him trying to study with Christians And then there are a few other things mentioned not from the Bible, so it just makes things more weird, why someone far away is just making up stories (e.g the Mary story). There is just too much bizarre things one would have to believe to consider Islam as being made up if one studied Islam and Mohammed.
Wow! It takes an unbiased and sensible person to break down this the way you did. The part where you said Muhammad was an illiterate just negates the man saying Muslims don't have access to Jesus other than Christian documents
@Jesus Or Muhammad Speaking of prophecy, do you know of any Muhammad made? I grew up in a family where both parents practised both religions and I studied both. I find there are more Muslims that know more about Christianity than Christians about Islam
@@p11361 it does as you said they were scripted. Stories are lost with time and even become inaccurate. Considering how he grew up he wasn't the type does too much story telling. I think you need to look into his life more for you to understand or better still study the Quran. It's very impossible to have a book over 1000 years old that is unchallenged and relevant in all aspects
@Jesus Or Muhammad does muhammad really contradict previous prophets? Really? A simple examination between abrahamic religion can tell you which stand odd about understanding of god. Judaism- god is 1 indivisible Christianity- god is 3 in 1 Islam- god is 1 indivisible
@@p11361 is the disciple present when the supposed 'cruxifixion' of jesus Even cruxifixion was supposed to be long excruciating death, but 'jesus' crucified and died on the same day.. Also when jesus supposed 'ressurection' when he goes to his disciple and ate broiled fish and honeycomb, the disciple were spooked but jesus rebuked them does the dead eat? It shows that the disciple only heard of jesus 'death' from hearsay not from their own eyes. This not included the contradiction of miracle of jonah and death of jesus yet, the so called 3 days and 3 nights..
When you study history of many other prophets before the Jesus (pbuh), then Islam makes far more sense. When Prophet Jonah was thrown into the ocean, he was supposed to be drown and dead but God saved him from near death. When Joseph was thrown into well, he was supposed to be drown in the well and dead, but God saved him from near death. Likewise Prophet Noah supposed to be drown in the flood water, but God save him from near death. Moses was chased by biggest military ever known to Moses, but God saved Moses from near death. Prophet Lot was forcefully escorted to safety and saved by angels, when wrath of God sent down upon Sodom and Gomorrah. Prophet Daniel supposed to be eaten by lions, but God saved him from near death. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) was chased by pagan-arabs but God saved him from near death. As per the Quran, Jesus was not killed nor he was crucified but it was made appeared to the enemies and God saved Jesus (pbuh) from humiliation, torture, nakedness and near death. Quran 4-157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- The God who created this infinite universe did not subject mercy and salvation upon crime against humanity in the killing blameless prophet of God and I believe God have power over everything where Prof Ehrman does not believe in miracles. Islam stands before the God and Islam is valid before the God.
@Jesus Or Muhammad How can stories in the Torah to be accurate, when T0rah is bad to core. soothing BBQ to the LORD. Leviticus 1-9, Leviticus 4-31, Leviticus 3-16, Genesis 8-21, Exodus 29-18. Deceiving an enemy was done by the God of Abraham in the OT. NT is human book, it did not exists when Jesus(pbuh) was around. God of Abraham never taught human red-liquid is needed for mercy and salvation and God disliked it.
@Jesus Or Muhammad _"who looked like Jesus was dead and placed in a tomb, both Jesus and the dead body of this person who looked like Jesus were both gone. "_ All human fabricated stories later developed to fit the theology and your theology itself violates God's majestic nature every corner you turn.
@Jesus Or Muhammad I have proved to you already corrupted state of T0rah, that is the reason why stories differ between the Quran and Torah yet the core theology between Torah and the Quran remain the same. Wasn't that your main point on your post on this threat. And then deceiving the enemies, which God does. And the God of Abraham never taught anyone to believe in human red-liquid for mercy and salvation.
@Jesus Or Muhammad _"You Muslims always says Allah's revelations are shit, like Torah and New Testament/Gospel. "_ Injeel was revealed to Jesus(pbuh), whereas books in the NT never did existed when Jesus was around. That is not rocket science to figure out. So books in the NT is not Injeel. So please don't tell me, your books in the NT is injeel, stop it.
@Jesus Or Muhammad _"If Allah made someone else look like Jesus on the cross, why was his dead body no longer in the tomb? "_ It was the mumbo jumbo was created by human authors, all made up stories.
Jesus was a man not God, both early Christians and Muslims agree. That is a very good starting point towards the real truth. May Allah guide us. آمين آمين يارب العالميـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــن
"It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is. And [thus it was that Jesus always said]: "Verily, God is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer; so worship [none but] Him: this (alone] is a straight way." And yet, the sects [that follow the Bible] are at variance among themselves [about the nature of Jesus" Quran [Maryam : 35-37]
Dr. Ehrman was absolutely PIVOTAL in my deconstruction of Christianity. I needed evidence to leave.. definitely found what I was looking for, thanks to this very wise man. I am a much happier person now that I’m out of that poisonous thinking. Thank you so much for having Dr. Ehrman on your show!
What was the fundamental evidence Dr Ehrman gave for you to leave your faith? Just curious as I know comments can be read different on the Internet to the meaning
@@ceej8582 On my view, Mary (levi tribe) married to Joseph (Yehuda tribe) is blatant bogus story' , for prohibited in Israeli Law Numbers 36:8 And every daughter, that possesseth an inheritance in any tribe of the children of Israel, shall be wife unto one of the family of the tribe of her father, that the children of Israel may enjoy every man the inheritance of his fathers.
"Dr. Ehrman was absolutely PIVOTAL in my deconstruction of Christianity." You can deconstruct human rights too using the same arguments. We are just dead atoms, there are no human rights, women rights, gay rights... go all the way in.
I haven’t had the chance to watch Dr. Ehrman’s webinar but I know it must be good. I’ve followed him for years and he is an excellent speaker and great scholar. I really like the way he present his views, very direct bun in a very honest and respectful way, and even hardened Christians and now Muslims for sure can listen to him and don’t feel offended but grateful to know that their beliefs are not what they were told, so they can reflect and think about them.
We believe that Quran is the true word of God. When God says in the Quran that he was not crucified it means that he was not crucified. Read the Quran and see if it’s actually the word of God and make your decision regarding what has happened to Jesus
@@Peanut888.. Submitting to only Almighty GOD which is one, and not associating any partner with Him. and Son of Mary (Peace be Upon Her) Jesus (Peace be Upon Him) is one of mightiest messengers with duty of spreading message of GOD which is "Submitting to only Almighty GOD which is one, and not associating any partner with Him." and was the duty of all messengers (Peace be Upon all of them).
From the outset, Drm Ehrman got the story of Jesus breathing life into birds and other miracles as an infant, and attributed that to the Quran. The Quran stated that Jesus spoke as a baby in defense of his mother's chastity when accused by her kilns of committing adultery. The Quran also stated at that time that is sent as a prophet to the children of Israel and the he IS GIVEN THE POWER TTO RAISE THE DEAD AND HEAL THE SICK AND OTHER MIRACLES., but those miracles came to pass later in the ministry of Christ, and NOTPERFORMED BY HIM AS INFANT. It is important to note that Jesus NEVER unequivocally and clearly stated that he was G_d. Also the doctrine of trinity and crucifixion came more than 200 years after the alleged crucifixion of Christ.
1. Jesus and the clay birds come from Gnostic writings dating centuries before Islam. 2. Jesus never said "I am God" but He did say "I am Son of God". Jesus also said He existed before the world was created, He accepted being worshiped and being called God. Jesus also said He is final judge etc all these claims hint at Jesus being divine. Jesus not saying "I am God" is such a weak argument to make. Anyone who reads the Gospels sees Jesus is clearly divine. 3. Trinity is mentioned first in the first century by Didache and in the second century by Polycarp, Ignatius etc. It's false that the trinity came 200 years later. Google trinitrianism in the church fathers. 4. You saying the crucifixion came 200 years after the crucifixion is just plain nonsense. We have the early Christian creed dating within 2 years after the crucifixion, then Paul's letters 15/20 years, then Mark's Gospel 30/40 years. We also have non-Christian sources confirmiing the crucifixion.
@@sneezystudios5856 I mistakenly added crucifixion to trinity when referring to the introduction of trinity into Christian theology. For a thorough discussion on Paul, trinity and the nature of Christ, please watch the following videos, by Christian, Jewish and Muslim scholars, debating and providing factual evidence, not mere conjecture. th-cam.com/video/6JU9J0XVlzQ/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/TZoC-iPb7uU/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/0zZUEgtBGjY/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/OmkwcGAt3XQ/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/AvPYCx38fTM/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/FWpqqqZn7Kg/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/dLJZaPMoZG4/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/oHVR4cZXwO0/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/LUTjEol6jRQ/w-d-xo.html Kind regards.
The Gospel of Thomas is where your Quran gets the breath of life into birds from. The defence of Mary's chastity comes from the Gospel of Mary Magdelene. More plagerisation from books that you say are corrupted. So why quote them? They were written CENTURIES before the Quran.
@@spiritof6986 my dear friend no one is saying that there were no scriptures before quran. Its just that the Holy Quran is the only book which is still in its pure form . And this is free from corruption.till date and inshallah beyond.
Bart: "Most Muslims don't realize stories in Quran can be found elsewhere written earlier" Fact: Islam considers the early followers of Jesus( ) to be Muslims as Jesus( ) was Muslim. Quran serves to preserve and validate New Testament and the previous Books in their uncorrupted form, not claim to be brand new. the need for this arose when New Testament and the other Books were corrupted, with the former being fiddled with by certain Jews and the Roman state. the Quran, from its point of revelation to its current state of preservation, precedes New Testament in being actually authentic to the teaching of Jesus( ) and being in a form that's just older in existence.
@Jesus Or Muhammad Please take some time to read the Quaran, all this info is in the Quaran. The prophets of Islam include: Adam, Idris (Enoch), Nuh (Noah), Hud (Heber), Saleh (Methusaleh), Lut (Lot), Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Yaqub (Jacob), Yusuf (Joseph), Shu’aib (Jethro), Ayyub (Job), Dhulkifl (Ezekiel), Musa (Moses), Harun (Aaron), Dawud (David), Sulayman (Solomon), Ilyas (Elias), Alyasa (Elisha), Yunus (Jonah), Zakariya (Zachariah), Yahya (John the Baptist), Isa (Jesus) and Muhammad. Peace be upon them all. In 25 Prophets of Islam you will learn: 1. That God is one. 2. About revelations mentioned in the Quran. 3. That the prophets were Muslims. 4. That Jesus was not the son of God. 5. Who committed the first murder. 6. About the similarity between Adam and Jesus. 7. What the Quran says about homosexuality. 8. Which prophet God spoke to direct. 9. The Quaran makes references to previous scripture to convey a message which was forgotten. Islam is not a new religion, it is the religion from when God made Adam. Your God is Our God because Muslims believe God created Adam and Eve and everything else on this earth and in the universe.
My understanding of the English Version of Qu'ran 157, is NOT that somebody else was Crucified, but that Jesus "APPEARED TO BE CRUCIFIED", necessarily indicating the presence of witnesses, but that the Crucifixion of Jesus "DID NOT HAPPEN". Which begs the questions, "HOW COULD THAT POSSIBLY BE, and WHO TOLD THEM THAT???" Psychologists claim to have proven, that "Mass Hallucination" cannot happen. --- But just within the last 20 years, a Concept has seeped into our Lexicon, called "Mandela Effect". --- Was there a "Mass Hallucination" of Nelson Mandela's death, or is it possible, that CREATOR's Universe, has the Power, to REVERSE TIME, under very RARE and EXTRAORDINARY circumstances? --- Is "Mandela Effect" so outrageous, that it is more unbelievable than being "raised from the dead"? As far as the SOURCE for this claim of a "Crucifixion Hallucination", could there be any Source, OTHER THAN "Gabriel"??? If not, WHO told Muhammad to have this ASTONISHING claim written down? My personal belief, is that Qu'ran 157 is CORRECT. The so-called "Crucifixion of Jesus", was a MANDELA EFFECT. But that's just me. Oh......and the "Holy of Holies" split in two, making the story I believe, to be even MORE unbelievable.
@@saheb-jg9nj and neither the Quran says jesus was raised up alive either key word right there. He is not over 2000 years old in space or the cosmos like a astronaut. Jesus died a natural death there is no second coming full stop its a pagan paulatine Christian belief.
@@saheb-jg9nj I've never said I'm Atheist. I am Agnostic. But I did once say in a video that I'm somewhere on the spectrum of Agnostic Atheist and Agnostic Deist.
Loved this as a Muslim its great to hear from scholars. Whilst bart may not know much about Islamic history he does have his opinions and that should be respected. During the time of Jesus there was many people living that was called Jesus. Barabas the man who was let go according to Christian scripture his first name was Jesus and barabas means son of God. Bart could be correct that a Jesus was crucified but he can never be certain it was THE Jesus as that name was very common.
@Jesus Or Muhammad that's your opinion and I respect that. I respect all opinions because everyone has one. If you knew even the basics of Islam you will see how ignorant your comment is but again. I will say that's just your opinion.
You keep repeating that Muhammad (PBUH) was a warlord military prophet. However, the earliest wars in Islamic history were defensive wars. So my question is, Is an aggressor a warlord? is defending yourself makes you a warlord? What is a warlord?
@MandelaFelix007 Actually, he wasn't. Many prophecies. I'll give you one. The conquest of Constantinople by the great commander Mehmet al-Fatih in 1453. This was one of the biggest military events in world history, and the Prophet ﷺ blessed its Commander and Army 800 years prior to its occurrence.
According to Gospel of Barnabas, Jesus was not crucified. Judas Iscariot (whose face was made to resemble his) replaced him on the cross, and Jesus was raised into heaven by God.
Maybe we forgot, Al Quran is the book from Allah. Words from Allah, of coz Allah knows more about Jesus then we do. May Allah shows the right path to all of us. 😊
Agreed with you. But base on the comments i have read here. the non-muslims here have not actually read a good translation of the Quran plus most of them refuse to believe that Quran has been preserved and not corrupted. So for the unbelievers here most of them will not have an open mind. In fact many of them are repeating misinformation about Islam.
@Kamal Razali If Jesus wasn't crucified and it was made to appear that he was crucified, then it is Allah's fault that Christianity exists today. Allah deceived the disciples of Jesus by making them believe that Jess was crucified and resurrected from the dead and they went about spreading his resurrection to the whole world? So Allah started Christianity?
@@itiswritten9423 that's such a stupid argument, "The biblical God killed all of humanity when he drowned the earth in water, He abused the poor man job because he was gambling satan, He told Moses to get the virgin women for himself, He told Moses to kill the children and women and men" Use smarter arguments instead of "Allah let this happen" Because he did, To test us, and all of humanity
@Jesus Or Muhammad I've seen your videos of these so called "Quran miracles debunked" You havened debunked anything, Everything you've said on their was of weak narration chains of hadith, wing translation, because Arabic is hard to translate for one word has couple of meaning,
@Jesus Or Muhammad I've got a degree in hadith science, What do you have? Nothing except hatred, You're not even a scientist, but then next your gonna say I am,
As a Muslim, it bothers me that Christians present Jesus as a savior who sacrificed himself for humanity only... He is not presented as a moral ideal in all fields for children and youth. Rather, we see a lack of respect for his person on the part of some.Christ and his companions must be presented as a perfect icon of morals and human values, and those who insult these icons must be criminalized.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Why would they be the perfect icons? Do you know about them? No. Christ can be an icon, and we know Muhammed SAW well than Christ. So, the following Muhammed SAW is the best.
Mr Bart says Jesus never claimed that He is God. Good point. By saying this He got closer to Islam and I hope if he will study more He can achieve being a Muslim
I respect Dr Bart Ehrman but I feel the quick concept that he hold that the Qur'an does not have historical access to Jesus is wrong, and this very flimsy excuse that they got it from the early Christians is also a weak response, rather than at least looking at the possibility that Qur'an has information that Bible does not have, To say that the gospel of Thomas mentions Jesus and clay birds is not evidence of copying as the Gospel of Thomas was not discovered until 1945. the Qur'an revealed 1,500 before it, it was found in Egypt. So Dr Ehrman should not ridicule the Qur'an so quickly he has proven that Prophet Muhammad (as) was aware of its existence and that it was written in Arabic otherwise how could he have known about it? or that his companions knew and were fluent in Greek and that they travelled to Egypt,
Bart is a scholar of the New Testament, big respect to him. But he’s not a scholar of the Quran or Islam, so I’m very interested to listen to what he has to say about the New Testament, asking him about the Islamic position is pointless.
@Jesus Or Muhammad you have a different Jesus than muslims do have, christianity has nothing to do with islam 2 different religion. Jesus of the muslims the spirit of god, the words of god whom will return to earth. Jesus of the muslims is with god the true god. your god you have already killed him 2000 year ago, witch god you believe in now is beyond me
@Jesus Or Muhammad your reaction has nothing in what i just said, you god was killed, so witch you believe in i don’t care’ ghe islam as i saud has nothing to do with christianity a total different religion it came 600 years or thousands years still a different religion that’s why i don’t understand the content why they looking what muslims do believe in, the muslim Jesus is different to what the christians have. Period
@Jesus Or Muhammad you fool i am mot a muslim i don’t care weathe the muslim god gave 100.000 or 1000000 mesrnger as you said or chicken, your gid was fake once he’s a father than a don than gids now what he’s the father let his don get killed by your people and promises you heaven what kind of god is this? Just a fake story so does all religion
What does a Muslim say about Jesus? So no one needs to be interviewed, every Christian should take the Qur'an and read it, the interviewers can mislead you but the Qur'an will not do that.
4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Allah let for 600 years grow up Christianity because of “cloning” Jesus. And for this they are mentioned in the Quran as unbelievers and go to hell… If one is a deceiver, then the Quran.
@@sofianee3580 Did we talk about the trinity right now? But anyway, you are welcome. And who told you Christian’s are not Monotheists? 😋 The Godhead in three Persons (trinity= three united) is even inside the Old Testament. Even in the first Verse of Genesis, God present himself during the creation as Multipersonal. And by his word he created. Father, his Ghost and The Word (Jesus). Genesis 1 The Beginning 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said,“Let there be light,” and there was light…. God Create and his Ghost was hovering over the Water. How many Persons do you see in this Verse? Just and Example, the Old Testament is full of evidence of three Persons as one god.
Dr. Ehrman is absolutely right in asserting that the Qur'an has no access to the historical Jesus. The only thing the Qur'anic narrator had access to was early Christian stories told and retold by Christian story-tellers. That was the very nature of a folkloric ancient culture. The only way one can find solace and certitude in their faith in the Qur'anic narration of the past prophets and events is by believing that it didn't have an earthly source and that the information came straight down from the heaven. The academics will, however, not buy into that and it will end up becoming a matter of personal conviction at length.
The hilarity is, because Bart said Jesus wasn't resurrected they jumped on that as proof Christianity was false and they loved Bart. However, they didn't listen long enough to realise Bart also discredited the Islamic version too!
This fellow is looking for historical Jesus in Gospels. Gospels are some books writen much later.They have no relevance in Quran, they are not divine. Corruption happened in Torah. Gospels may be corrupted as well, but that is different than the corruption in Torah. Jesus did not receive any revelation.
@@almazchati4178 what's the injil if not the gospels? And the earliest fragments of gospels are within a century of Jesus and the earliest complete set are from about the 2nd or 3rd century. The first completed Koran isn't till the mid 8th century. The Koran is an editing job.
@@josm1481 It is an Arabic word which is connotative with sickle. Jesus was sickling out various out growths around the teachings of Moses. Read Reza Aslan. Quran was completed during Prophet's life time, the last verse states that. It was written down under his supervision in several copies. It was reproduced by communal agreement. Mary was not a virgin. There were a lot of Christian converts to Islam, and they mistakenly identified these books as corrupted revelations. Injil is not a book.
@@josm1481 The earliest fragments of the Quran are within a few years of the Prophet Muhammad. The first completed Quran is within a century. This is something that Christian apologists can only dream of for the Bible.
@@issamedin306 no, that's a lie. The Koran is simply an editing job. The earliest fragments of what might be the Koran actually predate Uthman and many even most likely Muhammad. The earliest near complete Koran is from the middle to end of the 8th century, so over 100yrs after Muhammad supposedly lived.
I find Bart's statements very disturbing... You see, he repeatedly acknowledged that the Quran's views matched those of the early christians (which by itself is a blow to today's christians in their views about Jesus) and yet he still thinks the Quran got it wrong on the debatable issues and forgot that they are debateable and that the Quran could be correct about them just as well... He also repeatedly kept saying that Quran got its views from the early christians without any citation being known nor proof that he presents to his statements...He ignored the Quran saying that it came from God which could explain why it contradicts with so many corrupted christian views of today.. One minute he is saying with proof that the Quran is correct on Jesus in some aspects and then goes against it in others without proof to the accuracy of his own statements... He is also jokingly saying that the Quran under estimated Jesus and yet his own words earlier indicated that the Quran got so many very significant facts about Jesus correctly... This was not very professional of you this time Barty!! On the good side, he did admit that early christians didnt believe Jesus was a god and that he was a man and a Prophet... He needs to consider the case that what if the Quran was right in everything and not only the rather major things that it gets right in his own words...He needs to be more profesdional
Dr. Bart was a Christian thus still tainted by the 'Christian' thought. He will never say the Quran got Jesus correct and the Bible didn't, regardless of evidence or he will be crucified 'professionally' and intellectually. It is what it is.
@@tombushing4907 Your right... I just thought that when he kept exposing the contradictions in the bible and then agreeing with the Quran on duch significant points that he was so professional to a point where I was nearly sure that he will himself convert some day but then I got dissapointed and my dissapointed was mainly on the professionality side as he kindof fell out of my eye when he started playing word games instead of being professionally blunt like were used to see him as he any professional should be
@@damosoo4528 what do you mean by professionality? If inside your head you only know Christian x Islam, you're totally wrong. Leave Christian faith after know the "truth" doesn't mean Islam can provide him the true "truth". What he mean is Christian & Islam both wasn't the truth. Islam inherit some false gospel rejected by Christian and proven not match with history, right in to their holy book. Sorry for my bad english
@@TheColonelKlink "He is beside himself" or "He is out of his mind." Today, Jesus would have been prescribed antipsychotic medication. If that was the case two millennia ago, with him on a more stable mental footing, the entire fracas might have been avoided.
Islam has a prophet "Isa" but where does the name "Jesus or Yeshua" appears in the Quran. Are you talking about the same person or a reconstructed Jesus.?
Then God will say, “O Jesus son of Mary! Remember My Blessing upon thee, and upon thy mother, when I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, that you mightest speak to people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught thee the Book, the Wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel;” and how thou wouldst create out of clay the shape of a bird, by My Leave; and how though wouldst breathe into it, and it would become a bird, by My Leave; and thou wouldst heal the blind and the leper, by My Leave; and thou wouldst bring forth the dead, by My Leave; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from thee, when thou didst bring the clear proofs, and those disbelieved among them said, “This is naught but manifest sorcery.” And when I inspired the apostles to believe in Me and in My messenger, they said, “We believe. Bear witness that we are submitters.” (5:110-111) When the apostles said, “O Jesus son of Mary! Is thy Lord able to send down to us from Heaven a table spread with food?” [Jesus son of Mary] said, “Reverence God, if you are believers.” They said, “We desire to eat from it, so that our hearts may be at peace, and we may know that thou hast spoken truthfully unto us, and we may be among the witnesses thereto.” Jesus son of Mary said, “O God, our Lord! Send down unto us a table from Heaven spread with food, to be a feast for us - for the first of us and the last of us - and a sign from Thee, and provide for us, for Thou art the best of providers.” God said, “I shall indeed send it down unto you. But whoever among you disbelieves thereafter, I shall surely punish him with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any other in all the worlds.” (5:112-115) And when God said, “O Jesus son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind, “Take me and my mother as gods apart from God?” [Jesus son of Mary] said, “Glory be to Thee! It is not for me to utter that to which I have no right. Had I said it, Thou wouldst surely have known it. Thou knowest what is in my self and I know not what is in Thy Self. Truly it is Thou Who knowest best the things unseen. I said naught to them save that which Thou commanded me: “Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.” And I was a witness over them, so long as I remained among them. And Thou art Witness over all things. If Thou punisheth them they are indeed Thy servants, but if Thou forgiveth them, then indeed Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.” (5:116-118) There are many passages in the Quran to look at, if one wants to understand the role of Jesus in the eyes of the Prophet and early Islam. See in particular, and most easily, passages (e.g., 19:16-21; 3:45-47; 3:49) cited by Joseph Lumbard in his essay in the Study Quran, “The Quranic View of Sacred History and Other Religions” (particularly pages 1777-1782). See also some of the books he refers to, such as Quranic Christians (1981) by Jane McAuliffe, former Dean at Georgetown and now President of Bryn Mawr College, and Mahmoud Ayoub’s 1995 essay, “Jesus the Son of God: A Study of the Terms Ibn [offspring] and Walad [son] in the Qur’an and Tafsir [exegesis] Tradition.” John Kaltner’s book, Ishmael Instructs Isaac, remains valuable here too, as is a 2013 essay on Mary and Muhammed in the Journal of Ecumenical Studies by my Harvard doctoral student, Axel Takacs. One can also search through the detailed index of the Study Quran, which lists more than 50 references to Jesus, and many more in the commentaries. (Or try an A lot to read. Indeed, the multitude of such passages is part of the point: confronted with the mysteries of God and of ourselves, and guided by our traditions and Scriptures, there is still much room for study, close and complex reading; there is room for learning, in the face of the monumental ignorance tormenting us today. Violence wins in the short run, Truth in the long run. A humble contribution to this great work of learning is what my posts have been about, including this one. We are not doing theology in any completed sense in this study, but we are making ourselves the literate persons who will be capable of theologies worth reading. I am therefore encouraged by the many comments on my posts, particularly from those who read closely what I write. May the study continue, long after this fifth and last post is forgotten. Not wanting my always-too-long posts to be even longer, I had to choose one passage about Jesus to write about, and the passage cited above from Sura 5 (The Table Spread) seems beneficial and illuminating (even if I still recommend Sura 19 [Maryam], for which I also gave you audio links in my past post). Sura 5 is difficult, as it incorporates several different Christian and Muslim views of Jesus, and requires cross-reading with many other Quranic passages. The passage falls into three parts. Verses 110-111: God’s declaration to Jesus of what he has done for him, through him, both deeds such as we find in the Gospels, and the account of the miraculous clay birds we find in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. Even the people’s refusal to accept Jesus is in God’s hand, as is the divine protection of Jesus, kept from their hands. This is God’s direct address to Jesus, after addressing a wider group of prophets. Verses 112-115: The heavenly meal that God sends down, possibly after a Ramadan fast, showing to ambivalent disciples the effective intercessory power to Jesus. Verses 116-118: Jesus’ testimony, when questioned by God, that as God already knows; Jesus did not ask his listeners to worship him (and his mother) as deities apart from God, since his message is always, “Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.” The passage, nine verses, is accompanied by about five pages of small-print commentary, not to be skipped. Regarding verses 110-111, for instance, we learn of the Islamic tradition’s teaching on the Holy Spirit, as either the Archangel Gabriel, or the Spirit arising from God’s command, the “Spirit of the Holy.” Jesus is learned in all the sacred books; the “Book” may be taken as God’s Word, perhaps first of all the uncreated Quran, before its worldly revelation (see also 2:129, 3:3-4, 48ff.); his disciples are “submitters,” true “muslims.” Regarding 112-115: Even when these apostles believe, they also balk, and demand a sign, a meal from Heaven - or, it is because of their faith that they hunger for the meal from Heaven. Jesus can bring down this heavenly food; Jesus is the one to whom God will listen, whose requests God honors. Noting that Christian readers will see here hints of Jesus’ multiplication of the loaves (and, I would add, a distant gesture toward Jesus himself as the Bread from Heaven), the commentary notes that it also prompts in Muslim readers a sense that Jesus and his apostles were sharing a meal after a fast something like Ramadan; or, it is the Christian ‘id, joyful meal from Heaven, perhaps even the Eucharist, a meal of faith, grounded in the piety and obedience of Jesus.
Most of the comments the way presented here appear,want to portray that all religions have accepted JesusChrist, mother Mary and Christianity,except Muslims. As if jews have accepted Jesus Christ as God and Mary as mother of God.But what we find in Talmud ? However, we declare that jesus is the Messiah as chosen by God. His illustrious Mother Mary is also chosen by God.
I'm not religious but why would allah lie making Jesus look crucified, if so why did people like the other gospel claim he came back from the dead, what about the 12 disciples who died for Jesus, did they die for a lie cause god or Jesus himself lied creating Christianity leading billions to hell for giving god partners
According to Islam, Allah made Satan go astray, he is the creator of good and evil, and free will does not exist either 😶, apparently the Abrahamic God does not care much about anyone.
I think it's very unfair to reject the childhood stories of Jesus Christ only because it's not in the new testament, and we know very well what happened to the real followers (Jewish Christians) of Jesus Christ and James and how the enemies destroyed their manuscript.
It's not just because they're not in the New Testament, it's because the source manuscripts are of a much later date (centuries) than the canonical gospels, so they're assumed to be forgeries.
@@artf2651 bowing down was a common style of prayer used for thousands of years before Mohammed was born or before Jesus was born. Your connecting the two is meaningless.
The Quran says “ It was made to appear to them so” it doesn’t say some died instead of him. The question that Dr Herman did not explain, “ How can an illiterate man, living in a desert, who didn’t read or write, did not have direct access or knowledge of fragments of Thomas writings or Greek literature, know these information? Imagine him copying from Greek literature?! Stand to reason. The Quran came as a guardian over the old scriptures not to disprove them , rather to correct the changes made by men. So of course there are similarities since it’s from the same Allah.
The answer to the question is no. It's asking about a guy that has no history. Nothing written down nothing but stories. So you have story about a guy that told stories to 12 other guys that told stories. Then another guy comes around later with a new story that becomes the popular story even though he never met the guy who was dead long before this guys stories were made. Then 400 years later someone else makes a new story. If you were a judge and had to decide this in court you know the answer. Any other answer is belief in fairy tales.
This has been the single most controversial subject in the world. The Quran's miraculous mathematical code has now provided the final answer to this topic: (the number 19 is God's stamp) Jesus' soul was raised, i.e., he was put to death prior to the arrest and crucifixion of his body. Thus, his persecutors arrested, tortured, and crucified an empty body - Jesus was already gone to the world of souls (3:55, 4:157). [Quran 3:54] They plotted and schemed, but so did God, and God is the best schemer. [Quran 3:55] Thus, God said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes. [Quran 4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him. Mercifully, God has given our generation a living example of a person whose soul departed this world, but his body continued to live for 19 months. On November 25, 1984, doctors at the Humana Hospital of Louisville, Kentucky removed the diseased heart of Mr. William Schroeder and replaced it with a plastic and metal pump (THE NEW YORK TIMES, Monday, November 26, 1984). On the 19th day after this historic operation - Thursday, December 13, 1984 - Mr. Schroeder, the soul, the real person, departed this world. Mr. Schroeder died. But his body continued to function with the artificial heart implanted in his body. The world was told that he "probably suffered a stroke" (THE NEW YORK TIMES, December 14, 1984). Significantly, only one day before Mr. Schroeder's departure, he talked with President Ronald Reagan on national TV, and demanded that the Social Security Administration send his overdue check. He was perfectly alert. From the moment "he suffered a stroke," he did not recognize the day or time, nor his family members. In fact, Mr.Schroeder was no longer in this world. The Gospels state clearly that the arrested body of Jesus was oblivious to the events surrounding it: The chief priests, meanwhile, brought many accusations against Jesus. Pilate interrogated him again: "Surely you have some answer? See how many accusations they are leveling against you." But greatly to Pilate's surprise, Jesus made no further response. [ Mark 15:3-5 ] Herod was extremely pleased to see Jesus. From the reports about him he had wanted for a long time to see him, and he was hoping to see him work some miracles. He questioned Jesus at considerable length, but Jesus made no response. The chief priests and scribes were at hand to accuse him vehemently. Herod and his guards then treated him with contempt and insult. [ Luke 23:8-11 ] The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshly part. [Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3, 81] from THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY (Harper & Row, 1977, James M.Robinson, ed, Page 339). The facts that Mr. Schroeder's soul departed on the 19th day after the operation, and his body survived for 19 months, are uncanny reminders that God wanted the world to know the parallel between Schroeder's situation, and the proven account of Jesus' departure prior to the arrest, torture, and crucifixion of his soulless body. This is appendix 22 of Quran: the Final Testament by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, God's Messenger of the Covenant Peace.
Why read lies, when you can communicate directly with the Truth and receive God's Light, the Spirit of Truth, that leads men into all truths and opens their eyes to all deceit and lies.
@@arsenalfc7596 I find the same with Muslims and the Quran. For example God says that the Shahada is "There is no god but God". 3:18 Yet Muslims add a second Shahada with Muhammad. This is blatant idolatry. Example number 2, God clearly defines the four steps for wudu. Yet, Muslims typically have eight steps as if they know better than God. [7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe. Example number 3. God states: [72:18] The places of worship belong to God; do not call on anyone else beside God. Yet, we have Muslims who mention Abraham and Muhammad along side with God in the SALAT prayer of all places. Also, you'll here Muhammad's name in the ATHAN. This is shirk in it's most basic form and yet Muslims pollute their worship proudly. Muslims do not study the Quran and are polluted with the hadith and teachings of scholars, who are not authorized by God. This is Satan's famous trick. You see it with the Christians and Jews, why do you think Satan could not do it with the Muslims? Be a submitter to God alone. Forget the human component. They were the mailmen for God's message. It is the message that matters. Peace.
@@jefftaylor19 your whole arguments are funny syahada has muhammad pbuh thx to christian ppl and judaism who didnt believe him and so in order to become islam you need to accept him by saying these words (despite that every prophet is the same, theres no disctinction between them) sec we learn wudu by muhammad pbuh the way and all, like u said wash 4 parts of the body(face, hair, both legs and both arms) is a must meanwhile the others (ears, mouth etc) we called as sunnah, its not compulsory third mentioning muhammad pbuh and abraham pbuh in sholat is not equivalent to as worshipping but respecting them r u on drugs perhaps?
Maybe Dr Ehrman can explain how prophet Mogammad who was illiterate that could not read or write nor meet any Christians before the revelation of the Quran could have known such alot about Jesus (peace be upon him). Where did He, Mogammad ( Peace be upon him ) got this information about Jesus ( Peace be upon him) ? If Mogammad ( Peace be upon him ) were the author of the Quran then it would be strange that Jesus ( peace be upon him ) are mentioned almost 100% more than Mogammad ( Peace be upon him ) in the Quran. So the only conclusion that we can come to is that only the creator of Jesus ( peace be upon him ) revealed all the detail of Him ( Peace be upon him) to Mogammad ( Peace be upon him).
Waraqah Ibn Nawfal was the paternal first cousin of Khadija, and he was a Christian convert who used to write the Gospels in Arabic. When Muhammad got the first revelation, Waraqah told him he was a prophet. Waraqah died shortly after and the revelation was paused for a while. All of this information can be found in Sahih hadiths from Al Bukhari.
YAHSHUA, the one you call Jesus, is believed by Gnostics not to have died on the Cross, and others believe that Barabbas actually died in YAHSHUA's place.
Enjoyable to listen to. I like very much Bart Ehrman's enlightened views in search of the truth. I do disagree on his perception that the Quraan picks up info about Christianity on Jesus. If Quraan was the everlasting uncorrupted word of God as muslims believe, then it should carry the original version of all those historic events, period.
God does not change his words and teachings from religion to religion, so if some texts in the Qur’an coincide with other books, this does not mean that they are misquoted, but the source is one. Please tell everyone that your comments are just your personal opinion and not the leader of the Islamic religion so as not to mislead those looking for the truth. ﴿ قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ﴾ [ البقرة: 136] سورة : البقرة - Al-Baqarah - الجزء : ( 1 ) - الصفحة: ( 21 ) ﴿ Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)." ﴾
@Jesus Or Muhammadmy Qur’an does not concern him who married such-and-such a year, or who had sex with his daughter and begot her by whom Therefore, I agree with you that there are many things that are not mentioned in my Qur’an because they are things that have been distorted and that God did not consider until they are mentioned in my Qur’an. My Qur’an says that God sent prophets to all nations on earth, and he did not mention the stories of all these prophets, and he did not make prophets exclusively for the Children of Israel, because all people with God are equal, so the Hebrews, according to me, are not a basis for measurement at all. Had the names of these Hebrew prophets not been mentioned in the Qur’an, I would not have believed in them at all Because I did not see a sea splitting or dead people coming back to life, but I have the Qur’an, I advise you to read it
@Jesus Or Muhammad you wrote Torah says Quran is false Gospel says Quran is false Do you think that Muslims can deceive them like your followers tell them the Torah says and the Bible says and they believe you and they did not read it not even you I dare you to come up with words from the Torah or the Bible that originally spoke about the Qur’an I dare you to come up with words from the Torah or the Bible that God did not send prophets except to the Children of Israel only Provided that it be clear speech, like what is in the Qur’an, and not a set of incantations and riddles, like the ones with which you deceive people and explain them as you wish. And do not try to be proud of what does not belong to you at all. We in the Middle East have more Hebrew blood than you and the fake fabricated modern Israeli, and we are not proud of that.
@Jesus Or Muhammad I think that is a valid point which needs enlarging upon. Islams only “prophet” is Mohammad. Islam imposes itself into the historical account of the Bible. The way Muslims try to find Mohammad in the Bible as an example. The Quran is obviously insufficient so the need to find other sources to gain some sort of basis for Islam is needed.
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@Jesus Or Muhammad the only thing muslims qoute Bart in is the corruption of the Bible when it's being presented as Gods word . Why do you feel you have to lie to make a point against Muslims ?
@Jesus Or Muhammad yes they do and historically you have very little on the life of Jesus . Crucifixion was the best attested fact from the little you have and the Qur'an agrees that people thought he was. The Bible unfortunately is not reliable and cannot be the word of God. You can disagree ofcouse .
@Bhi fee According to the islamic tradition Jesus is not rasullullah. Rasullullah is Muhammed. Anyways, its true that only god can bring salvation. But the islamic view states that got has sent several prophets in the past like Moses, David, Jesus, Abraham, Muhammed among many others to bring their communities into salvation
@Bhi fee his tomb is known and can still be visited to this very day. The burial places of many of his companions as well as a few family members are known as well. So he is very much a real person.
@Bhi fee Greek historian Diodorus Siculus mentions about the city (well the shrine located in it to be more exact) in his works. 1'st century bc. Ptolemy also mentioned the city in the 2nd century as Macoraba . So... its clearly from before the 7th century.
And when I (Allâh) revealed to Al-Hawâriyyûn (the disciples) [of ‘Îsâ (Jesus)] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims." Al Quran Chapter 5 verse 111 - translation by Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan
_It's true and admittedly bart is an expert and scholar of New Testament he spent more than 30 years studying the NT scripture, but he is not a scholar of the quran in fact he does not understand the language of Quran or Arabic, for that he also needs 30 years to study about the quran and arabic language to qualify to comment fairly_
On thing I respect about Bart Erhman is that even though he left Christianity after discovering that the Bible was corrupt he is still loyal to his historical Christian belongings and too afraid to open the Quran and actually study it and do a scriptural criticism on it . He is just giving opinions from hearsay’s he is never opened the actual Quran clearly .
Bart did an interview with the Apostate prophets (ex Muslim ) on TH-cam and Muslims cut and edited the footage to make it look like he supported Islamic opinions . B In my opinion Bart needs to make it very clear that their perception of Jesus is not in line with history
@Jesus Or Muhammad And Muslims dont need any explanation from christians like you about who the actual Jesus was and who God really is and about which scripture is revelation....... keep your polytheistic trinity and your blood sacrifice to yourself Also what God chose to reveal in the Quran about Jesus and about his Blessed Mother Mary is more than enough for us!!
@Jesus Or Muhammad And i know you wanna believe in a false Apostle called Paul who never met Jesus and made up theology on his own , that is the definition of a false apostle who coorupted the message of jesus. The Christian faith was corrupted after Jesus went away. Jesus never claimed to be God and never taught about blood sacrifice and blood atonement. All the Gospels are forgeries and corrupted scriptures. Anyway, keep believing in your nonsense and live in your delusion and falsehood.
I think Bart Ehrman should stick to talking about where he has qualifications. He is seriously embarrassing himself with some ignorant things he has said today. Muslims copied the scriptures of the earlier Christians??? Big joke😂😂
I respect Bart, but definitely he does not have proper knowledge with wisdom ( Hidayah), that is the reason he is reluctant to accept Religion at all, though he always speak about Religion. If he does have proper knowledge and analogy about God Almighty, and Religion, he should know there is only One Creator, and does he think that One Creator of Heavens and Earth will give many Religions to His creation to fight ? Of course NOT. Since there is One God, there is One Religion, and all Holy Messengers, and Prophets came with same basic Message, and Religion, therefore definitely Scriptures will will give same common ingredients, for which Mr Bart is saying, Muslims copied from previous Scriptures. I hope if Mart is sincere and serious about Religion, since his entire life is around Religion, and same time he is reluctant to accept it, he will one day accept Truth, i.e. Islam. I pray for him, and all of us, may Allah (swt) give us all wisdom, and keep on path, who enjoy blessings of our Creator, Aameen. Remember me in your prayers brother Taofeeq, Jazak Allah Khairun.
Actually he's not very ignorant. It is very logical to think that. Islam borrowed a lot of stories from Christians and Jews. If you can't see that, then you are very delusional.
He is a professional historian of early Christianity - he has the highest qualifications. Why can't you be consistent and accept the facts? You people are hypocrites who love quoting Bart when his conclusions go against Christianity but you complete undermine him and reject his conclusions when they go against Islaam. Islaam = hypocrisy
@@demitrykhandree1774 Highest qualifications in Christianity not in Islam😂😂. When Ben Carson talks about the brain, I will shut up and listen but when he talks about the skin I will graciously pass because he is clearly not a skin specialist. This should be basic knowledge, don't embarrass yourself.
Yes they did. See publications such as "syriac millieu" by Joseph witztum and quran and bible by gs Reynolds. And how do YOU explain the similarities between the apocryphal sources and the quran ?
The Quran acknowledges that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not speak on his own whims or desires, but rather conveyed the message that was revealed to him by Allah (God). Here is a verse that highlights this principle: "Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed." (Quran 53:3-4) This verse from Surah Al-Najm (Chapter 53) affirms that the words spoken by the Prophet Muhammad were not based on his personal desires or inclinations. Instead, he received divine revelation that was communicated to him by Allah. The Prophet Muhammad's role was to convey the message faithfully, without adding or subtracting from it.
"Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve." (Quran 2:62) This verse emphasizes that belief in Allah, the Last Day, and righteous conduct are the key factors for earning reward and protection from fear and grief. It acknowledges that individuals from various religious backgrounds, including Jews and Christians, who hold these beliefs and demonstrate righteousness, will find acceptance with Allah
Dr. Bart D. Ehrman proved again that he is only an expert of The Bible, a great one actually. Because it is not new to claim that the stories about Jesus in the Qur'an are from the Bible. They have been claimed for centuries from the orientalists, and without any historical proof, as Ehrman does. Again, Islamic studies still being a big challenge for the Non Muslim Western scholars
@Jesus Or Muhammad Nice speach! As u said "Arabic book", at least we have it. ln which language is yours, mate? Did u get the point? Beside, Dr. Ehrman has made it clear that he is not a believer.
Al-Qur'an as a source of teachings is still more perfect than the best morals of Muslims, on the other hand the best morals of Christians are still better than the source of their teachings (the Bible), ... that means people are not able to create their own literary works like the Qur'an. a book with its linguistic formulas and can be memorized by millions of people, young and old, disabled and normal, male and female, ... but People will easily create teaching literature more credible and accurate than the Bible, and make assumptions and conjectures about divinity freely, on the basis of "what is important to believe"
The Quran includes narratives similar to those found in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, a text which is not part of the canonical Bible 🤣. This overlap suggests that the Quran may be affirming truths found in non-canonical sources, highlighting its role as a divine scripture meant to clarify and validate true events and teachings. According to this perspective, the Quran serves as a guide to discerning truth, distinguishing between authentic divine messages and other religious texts and interpretations.
@Jesus Or Muhammad ok so let’s say a chapter if it makes your day but to actually go in at a small technical “error” it’s a waste of time we could say it’s a biography to be honest but because I said book instead of “chapter” you dismiss to point of my comment. I’m guessing since your posturing and so adamant that you have read the Quran and the Bible? Which isn’t even the point of my comment, I see a burning desire to correct and intimidate with knowledge that you must have a narcissistic character come on I hope you saw the webinar because I don’t see why you would even click on this video and less on my comment and dismiss all I said.
@Jesus Or Muhammad oh I get it now you got offended when I said book instead of chapter Hmmm well If you didn’t know Muslims believe in the gospel from the Bible, Jesus virgin birth, his miracles also Jesus is also mention in the Quran more than Muhammad can so what I see is a person that believes the Bible is the inherent word of God. If you say there’s propaganda in the Quran also say there’s propaganda in the Bible.
The Infancy gospel of Thomas and its copycat story in the Koran makes Jesus look like a type of Disney's Fantasia's "Sorcerer's Apprentice" if you are familiar with the Micky Mouse portrayal of this character in that Walt Disney classic.Sort of cheapens the whole character of Jesus.
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@Jesus Or Muhammad There is a pattern with the New Testament that Christians do not know about and that is about new testament forgeries and deliberately misquoting jesus WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT, Bart Ehrman th-cam.com/video/dZp6C110s4Q/w-d-xo.html The Historical Jesus with Dr Dale Martin th-cam.com/video/YSNrTsBTH7Q/w-d-xo.html Forged | Bart Ehrman | Talks at Google th-cam.com/video/PF3nu4cYC78/w-d-xo.html Misquoting Jesus in the Bible - Professor Bart D. Ehrman th-cam.com/video/pfheSAcCsrE/w-d-xo.html
The stories of Jesus in Islam were taken from the infancy gospels not the orginal one. Now it's time for Muslims to stop debating with Christians whether Jesus is God or not because it is not going to help Islam.
Jesus as a prophet is a failed concept, and the fact that Allah faked his death on the cross doesn't make sense. It means that Allah deceived us into believing that Jesus was crucified(and therefore risen) knowing that it would create Christianity. So Allah who is wise and all knowing made the mistake of confusing people about Jesus's death so that the witnesses of his death believed in his death and made his sacrifice on the cross the angular stone of Christianity. So Allah created Christianity by deceiving the witnesses of the last moments of Jesus. According to Quran, not only Jesus failed to promote the unicity of God, in fact he misleaded people with his ambiguous words and his divine powers(the power to forgive sins for example) so that people believed he and God were one and that he was his son. Before Jesus people believed in the unique God but after him they believed in Trinity. So Allah who hates above all associationnism, sent us a prophet knowing that this prophet would be severly misunderstood so that his mission would end with the opposite of the desired effect, i.e. the worshipping of this prophet as God himself. Allah is all knowing, so he knew that Jesus would fail and that his failure would create christianity, so why he who forgives everything except associationism, knowingly created Christianity(shirk) and made it the first world's religion?
Why did God create Eve knowing that she would sin and bring death into the world? Why did God create Cain knowing that he would murder Abel and bring a curse on the Earth? IMO, God allows freedom of choice because it the only way to achieve Heaven on Earth. We should expect that Man will fail greatly as he learns the greatest Truth.
@@DanielHuman1996 I understand that God creates flawed humans because the great law of the universe is the Law of Evolution so that everything imperfect is on the road to perfection or greater expression of itself(that is the essence of life wich is the force that always pushes forward). What i don't understand is the logic behind the islamic view of Jesus as a prophet instead of son of god. They claim that Jesus is only a prophet but if that is true then Allah is the less clairvoyant or the worst communicator ever since all that this prophet produced is the belief in the trinity and therefore associationism, which the very jealous god of Islam abhors the most.
You are missing the point. We were given the free will to choose our own religion. It is not God’s fault neither God’s intervention in creating christianity a major religion. If you actually do your research you will come across the fact that no other prophet before Jesus claimed to be divine neither did anyone claimed that god had a son. If so then the Old Testament would have said so. Abraham, Moses and all other prophets (peace be upon them) has taught strict monotheism whereas christianity completely deviates from monotheism. I understand your point but you have to agree that the preservation of the New Testament is problematic. No one knows the true identity of the scholars who wrote the four canonical gospels. So how are you so sure that the New Testament indeed contains the exact teachings of jesus? P.S- Islam never claims that god deceived people to avoid the crucifixion of jesus. It says that god saved jesus from crucifixion and he shall return when the false messiah arrives.
What ever happened historically no one is sure 100% . Quran says there is one God. 148. Those who associated with Allah will say, "If Allah had willed, we would not have associated [anything] and neither would our fathers, nor would we have prohibited anything." Likewise did those before deny until they tasted Our punishment. Say, "Do you have any knowledge that you can produce for us? You follow not except assumption, and you are not but falsifying." 149. Say, "With Allah is the far-reaching argument. If He had willed, He would have guided you all."
Stunning Accuracy of Quranic History crucifixion of Jesus vs. crucifixion of isa court session is opened. judge: who are you? Jesus: Son of God.: i am the beginning and end isa: son of maryam; al lah knows the best, i was not there, someone looks like me was on the cross. judge: why you are crucified? Jesus: i am truth, way, the lamb of God. isa son of maryam: al lah knows best judge: where you are crucified? Jesus: Son of God.: cavary outside of jerusalem. isa: son of maryam: al lah knows the best . judge: when do you crucified? Jesus: Son of God.: AD 33 friday on passover 9am to 3pm isa: son of maryam; al lah knows the best judge: why you are crucifixied? Jesus: Son of God.: i am and father is one isa: son of maryam; al lah knows the best judge: how you are crucifixied? Jesus: Son of God.: on the cross isa: son of maryam:al lah knows the best judge: who are the witness of your crucifixion? Jesus: Son of God.: mother, daughters of jerusalem, the chief priests, disciples, roman soldiers. jews. isa: son of maryam: al lah knows the best judge: how long do you stay after the resurrection and before the ascension? Jesus: Son of God.: 40days isa: son of maryam: al lah knows the best judge: what are the last words before the ascension? Jesus: Son of God.:It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” isa: son of maryam:a l lah knows the best, i do not remember it was more than 600 years ago. judge: ladies and gentlemen you are the judge. make your verdict, thanks
This has been the single most controversial subject in the world. The Quran's miraculous mathematical code has now provided the final answer to this topic: (the number 19 is God's stamp) Jesus' soul was raised, i.e., he was put to death prior to the arrest and crucifixion of his body. Thus, his persecutors arrested, tortured, and crucified an empty body - Jesus was already gone to the world of souls (3:55, 4:157). [Quran 3:54] They plotted and schemed, but so did God, and God is the best schemer. [Quran 3:55] Thus, God said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes. [Quran 4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him. Mercifully, God has given our generation a living example of a person whose soul departed this world, but his body continued to live for 19 months. On November 25, 1984, doctors at the Humana Hospital of Louisville, Kentucky removed the diseased heart of Mr. William Schroeder and replaced it with a plastic and metal pump (THE NEW YORK TIMES, Monday, November 26, 1984). On the 19th day after this historic operation - Thursday, December 13, 1984 - Mr. Schroeder, the soul, the real person, departed this world. Mr. Schroeder died. But his body continued to function with the artificial heart implanted in his body. The world was told that he "probably suffered a stroke" (THE NEW YORK TIMES, December 14, 1984). Significantly, only one day before Mr. Schroeder's departure, he talked with President Ronald Reagan on national TV, and demanded that the Social Security Administration send his overdue check. He was perfectly alert. From the moment "he suffered a stroke," he did not recognize the day or time, nor his family members. In fact, Mr.Schroeder was no longer in this world. The Gospels state clearly that the arrested body of Jesus was oblivious to the events surrounding it: The chief priests, meanwhile, brought many accusations against Jesus. Pilate interrogated him again: "Surely you have some answer? See how many accusations they are leveling against you." But greatly to Pilate's surprise, Jesus made no further response. [ Mark 15:3-5 ] Herod was extremely pleased to see Jesus. From the reports about him he had wanted for a long time to see him, and he was hoping to see him work some miracles. He questioned Jesus at considerable length, but Jesus made no response. The chief priests and scribes were at hand to accuse him vehemently. Herod and his guards then treated him with contempt and insult. [ Luke 23:8-11 ] The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshly part. [Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3, 81] from THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY (Harper & Row, 1977, James M.Robinson, ed, Page 339). The facts that Mr. Schroeder's soul departed on the 19th day after the operation, and his body survived for 19 months, are uncanny reminders that God wanted the world to know the parallel between Schroeder's situation, and the proven account of Jesus' departure prior to the arrest, torture, and crucifixion of his soulless body. This is appendix 22 of Quran: the Final Testament by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, God's Messenger of the Covenant Peace.
Dr Bart need to understand why god allows suffering first then he can talk on religion and prophets. A talk with no belief is just sounds, no matter who you are... It is just sad but true
Because humans create suffering. We make the decisions and commit to them. We must take the onus for what we do. Agnostic by the by. Humans are responsible for everything that happens. Its humans that allow suffering and misery as we create it. So we need to blame ourselves and no one else. If we were better and more respectable to each other it would ease suffering.
@@miscalotastuff733 I agree that humans cause suffering, but there's plenty of suffering that humans are not responsible for, and why does God allow that? Agnostic what, theist or atheist?
In the Quran it says 2 things: - they boasted that they killed him - it only appeared to them as if Knowing that the pilates is only allowed to leave a city if the crucified is certified dead and adding the accounts that he wasnt in his tomb plus the fact he ate a fish when he met the apostels makes it seem as if the Quranic version is plausible
The problem with Bartt Erhman he is still attached in christian belief.But never see that those accusation about Quran was copied from those heretical influence or gnostic bible is being bias.Actualy he said it was base from other christian story even it is a myth. But have you all ever consider .That the bible claim as authoritative,by claim orthodox church ,who just pick codices or bible fitted to their triion dogma, can be a heretical from other early christian sources ,which is not trinitarianism.. Let me give you an example.Why the Ebionites was branded by the church fathers as hereticals? Because of their views that Jesus was an ordinary man and the fulfilment of Deut. 18:18? But biblicaly in the 4 canon Jesus was mentioned more often as the son of man and a prophet??? What about the many christian writings that was accused of being gnosticism or hereticals. Like the book of Thomas and Barnabas.A several writings under the name of John epistle. Thomas Mark Peter are they not part of the disciples who accquire the teaching of Jesus? Have you not consider why in many discovered of Johns epistle, are being accuse as heretias or gnostic bible.And only one book of John is being part of the canon? WHICH IS VERY OBVIOUS THAT THE CHURCH FATHERS OR THE CLAIM ORTHODOX CHURCH FORCEFULLY INSERTED THE DIVINITY OF JESUS ,THAT YOU MAY NEVER FIND IN ALL SYNOPTIC GOSPELS. That is something bias and unreal when mostly christian are accusing that Quran was copied to those heretical influence.Not knowing the bible itsel of the clalm orthodox church in many passage are supporting those accused hereticals codices. Let me give some of their belief about historical Jesus. Jesus is a prophet Jesus is a man. It all can be seen in the bible with fully understanding of biblical character that Jesus strongly affirmed. Let me give you some. Here is the strong evidence that Jesus cam able to decieve the eyes of all the people during his ministry to escape the crucifiction, same what he did in the alledged ressurection. And his disciples knew that he is a prophet not God that are the stand of the trinitarian.. Cleopas: Luke 24:18-19 (KJV) And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days? And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: Bible is very clear supporting those accused as hereticals..
of course Quran didn't talk a lot about Jesus, this will make it a Gospel. we Muslims have all the respect to prophet Jesus but we don"t believe he's divine or crossified
Islamic Jesus pbuh was a Muslim, a Mighty Prophet, Highly Revered Messenger and the Promised Messiah of God (Allah). This Great Prophet was sent ONLY to the "Lost Sheep of the House of Israel" and no one else. He brought the Gospel or Good News of the coming of the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter as the Last and Final Messenger unto all mankind, as was also prophesied in the Torah - Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah SAS.
@@theguyver4934 So how come Jews rejected him? Isn't it bizarre that non-Jews to whom he did not come claimed him? Hallelujah! Like all other Prophets, he was a Muslim, but was sent ONLY to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
49.95? For what? This guy was supposedly a distinguished scholar and devout Christian for a number of years and one day later on in life decides to become an atheist. His reasons for finally discarding Christianity were apparent and obvious when he was Christian. Why the ditching of Christianity then? Perhaps he gets more famous, more followers and becomes more interesting and able to charge for his services. Something seems disingenuous……
@@jimmybeam1550prove your point, it's just claims made by moslems, there is no Qur'an complete Qur'an from 7 century, so it's not possible to know if these is same Qur'an, all these stories about Muhmad was later inventions during abssaid era
"He [‘Îsâ (Jesus)] said: "Verily I am a slave of Allâh, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; Al Quran Chapter 19 verse 30. - Translation by Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan
We muslims believe that the Bible is not the same holy scripture revealed to Prophet Jesus ( peace be upon him) which was called the Injeel. In the Bible does not have a reference of the original text in Aramaic which was Prophet Jesus's language. There are continuity issues, copiers' errors issues, unknown authors, forgeries which regards to the Bible. The Quran was revealed as a way to correct these mistakes and guide humans in general. Moreover Prophet Jesus ( peace be upon him) was sent as a messenger to the Jewish faith - he was not teaching them anything new. If the "Bible" was not corrupted or changed then the old testatemant and old testatement should be the same - but there are glaring differences in theology , plus rabbis do not agree with the old testatement that christians / catholics have since some verses have been wrongly translated , or changed etc.
If we are going to discuss the contents of the bible we need to consider how it was compiled and that it should not have errors and contradictions. That is my concern. When i am learning something about a holy scripture - i need to be able to refer to the original text in its original language. I can do this for the quran. But not for the bible. You can read up books by Dr Jerald Dirks, Dr Dale Martin, Dr John Barton and Bart Erhman
@Jesus Or Muhammad if you truly believe your christianity is correct and the bible has not been corrupted why feel so defensive and frightened? Notice you attack via insults whereas i am polite. Your choice of words reflect the character of your religion. Plus you still did not address the facts regarding how the bible is compiled & its lack of preservation, errors and forgeries.
@Jesus Or Muhammad the bible was not the holy scripture revealed by Allah to Prophet Jesus peacebbe upon him. The various compiled versions of the bible were written by humans who change whatever Prophet Jesus shared to his disciples. Anyway its clear you lacked info about the errors in the bible, how it was not preserved properly and its contradictions. If you choose to follow a book with a lack of preservation & errors that is your choice. The bible is not the work of Allah but the work of humans ( who make mistakes) .Let us leave this matter to God who created you, me , Prophet Jesus( peace be upon him) and all the other Prophets ( peace be upon them) . God knows Best compared to all humans even you and me even prophet Jesus ( peace be upon him) who could not do anything accept by the Will of the Creator ( God).
The Quranic version makes the most sense. To think that the Creator would allow his holy Prophet Issa (Jesus) (PBUH) to be humiliated and tortured at the hands of heathens and greedy corrupt Jews, to be crucified as absolutely ridiculous. Every person will pay for their own sins.
If God knew people would turn Jesus into a God then why did he even send Jesus into the world in the first place or even make people think he was on the cross
@@A-man-in-the-box Why God sends prophets is due to man's corruption. The Jews became corrupt and sinful and thus Jesus (PBUH) was sent. A salvation to mankind at that time. The corrupt Jews tried their best to have him killed. They will try to kill him again when he returns.
@@A-man-in-the-box Don't put the onus on God. People are corrupt as corrupt as today's politician even more. Stop asking why did God do this or that, our logic cannot be applied to that of the Creator. Jesus was a man, with miracles for the period of time he came in. Other prophets had different miracles for their times and peoples that were sent to. The bible has been corrupted and biblical scholars say they are corrupted. Search for the truth.
@@silwan6784 then God is simply illogical to purposely mislead people then to punish them for eternity with fire… that’s evil not good that’s a man made God not the real God
@@A-man-in-the-box People have choices to make. Do your best to make the right choices. Choose the correct path and do not allow the glitter to take you from the path. Surround yourself with good people. One day you will feel at ease and peace. Good Luck on your journey.
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Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Christmas Webinar here Www.mythvisionpodcast.com/christmas
I look forward to seeing what Dr. Ehrman goes into on December 5th all day! I will be there and hope to see you all there as well.
what historical Jesus? Lol the only accounts of Jesus are in the New Testament and the Quran. The New Testament being littered with mistakes
@@SerrvantX all these stories, littered with mistakes, if taken literal.
2:45 the Qur'an doesn't say Jesus was substituted with someone else the substitution theory has no support from Quran or ahadith it's just a belief which is used to fill in the gaps because Quran leaves the event ambiguous
Maulana(Islamic scholar) Maududi writes in his exegesis of the Quran called
Tafhimul Qur'an
“The Qur'an is silent about the nature and the details of the matter”
Sheikh Ahmad Deedat a prominent Islamic preacher said the Arabic words found in the Qur’an
“shubiha lahum does not mean someone was substituted"
@@apostateimam1 do you understand your stupid claim now? The Christians Jesus is another Jesus. You completely ignored what you cant answer
@@ISAiah.42 completely different jesus? you mean physically two people?
The Quran doesn’t say that somebody was crucified in the place of Jesus, it simply says that he wasn’t crucified and that it appeared to them as such. It’s open to interpretation
True.. its open to interpretation
@Jesus Or Muhammad yeah I’m with you
Galatians 1:8 speaks on if any angel deliver gospels other than this let him be cursed and as for Muhammad well
Having male relative divorce his wife so Muhammad could marry him , having someone beheaded then widow marry him , receiving a revelation saying that God has 3 goddesses , killing people sex slaves , said if He delivered revelation not from God then let his aorta be cut,, he was later poisoned and died much later saying felt like his aorta cut in his own words and fishes revelations he was a false prophet so I’ll safely say that this is Muslims prophet Muhammad then they definitely NOT have the right version of Jesus 🤷🏻♂️
@Jesus Or Muhammad
I'm curious, since you're basing your salvation on the writings of the Bible and specifically the NT, which is said to be inspired by God and some even say it is the verbatim word of God, I was just wondering whether you could tell us the full names of the four gospel writers Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
@@peacebeuntoyou8934 It is not known what the full names are, people in those days did not usually have last names, whatever the names are it does not change that what is written is written, the events of the New Testament came before the New Testament was written, so whoever wrote it does not change the events.
@@shanebell2514
It's not just that you don't have the Full names, you don't even have the actual authors' names. What you have is anonymous people writing under anonymous first names, something on which you're willing to stake your salvation. You can argue and bash Islam till the cows come home, out of ego, or pride, but it's not going to do you any good in the hereafter. It would be better for you to realise this sooner rather than later, but even later is better than never.
Dr Bart can be said to be a Christian scholar but definitely NOT a Muslim scholar. I think he has a long way to go to understand Islam.
I Believe he understands more then he claims to know but he walks on eggshells fir fear of losing his audience. I just find it hard to believe a man as astute as Mr Ehrman has not done any or a basic reading on Islam and the Islamic prospective of Jesus. Over the years ive come to the conclusion that his views of who Jesus was according to the historical proofs they have is closer to the Muslim point of view then the Christian. This is a fact not just my opinion. I would like to also say ive been a fan of his for over 20 years.
@@EscapeRoomCleveland yh his audience is mainly of the atheist persuasion and i too believe there maybe some audience catering as well when I see him (a scholar) making huge blunders when speaks about the freakin basics of Islam.
@@EscapeRoomClevelandThis I agree with.
He confused sources, I want to say the crucifixion substitute is Gos. Of Barnabas? Maybe? Regardless, I don't think he was being disingenuous, just has a lot of information to parse mid speech.
@@EscapeRoomClevelandmost of his audience are atheist and Muslims. Muslims buy his books more than anyone because he criticized Christianity. He no favorite of ours
@@EscapeRoomCleveland I don't think it's completely about his audience but more about his safety. Look at what they did to Salman Rushdie. When it comes to Izlam everyone filters their words carefully, the followers of Izlam are on free pass on being violent.
I remember in a conference when Bart was asked if he is going to study the Koran, and he answered that he is not crasy to study it. So now he is trying to avoid the point that islam see Jesus as a man and a prophete. On the other hand, bart he is not a specialist of islam or arabic, or Koran.
yeah Allah need GENIUS MUSLIM like u to call CP to SAVE ISLAM.
Christian Prince
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The Arabian Prophet
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I mean 70% of muslims are not arabic speakers so they dont know much about the koran either
@@kurotsuki2827 You are right! Most of them read the Quran in English, French or other language. Having said that, the truth about Jesus is laid in the Quran. Allah said in the Noble Quran: There is nothing whatever like unto Him. This koranic verse is a bombshell for Trinity Doctrine. He also said about Himself: He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none whatsoever equal or comparable unto Him. If He sees everything, if He hears everything and if He controls everything, then He iss capable to what He said in the Quran. the most logical version about Jesus' death is Islamic one.
I'm a Muslim Arab: شبه لهم (Shubbiha lahum) the translation in English to make appear and also to replace.
@@kurotsuki2827 1000000000% fact you nailed it they blindly except everything from there scholars without question. Jesus died according to the Quran he is not over 2000 years old alive in space or the cosmos like a astronaut!
@@mohammedjamil2277 I'm not sure about your claim, I think in contrary the koran didn't explicitly mention Jesus's death, or am i wrong?
Correction, the Quran never says someone else was crucified or substituted. The Quran simply says that he was no crucified that it appeared to them so. This means everyone thought he was crucified. No mention of a substitution or anything else. It also says they who claim he was crucified only follow conjecture. Case in point, EVERYONE IS STILL debating the crucifixion. Historically the Qurans statement is accurate.
What do you think about the following statement:
"Mohammed did not exist. It only appeared to have existed."
Do you think it is accurate?
@@apo.7898 You’re comparing an event that has been disputed since the beginning vs the existence of a person.
@@wadisindhda7713 No.
@@apo.7898 One event vs existence of a person who lived for 60+ years, had more than 100k followers during his lifetime, has a continuous bloodline and has a tomb which is visited by millions annually
@@kashifkhan-yr8wi You should pay attention to what someone says before commenting. Muhammad either existed or he did not exist. The same is true about the crucifixion. Either it happened or it did not happen. If someone says 'it appeared to have havepened', they should explain how and why.
[3:59] Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, “Be,” and he was.
@Jesus Christ Is Lord jesus born isn't it?
@Jesus Christ Is Lord summum bukmun
@Jesus Christ Is Lord you're just ignorant, you do realize arab christians in palestine pray to allah to right? They say allahu akbar and all that, to them allah is the father, so regardless of what you think about the prophets (Jesus and Muhammad S.A.W), you shouldn't disrespect allah like that, also, why he didn't preserve them previous books is simply because it wasn't promised, all the prophets came with their own miracles, Jesus healed and brought the dead etc, we believe all that as muslims btw, Muhammad S.A.W miracle was the Quran, as he couldn't write or read along with the promise of preservation as he's the last prophet and the quran is literally the word of God communicated to the prophet thro Angel Gabriel hence the preservation, the literature of the quran in arabic standards is the highest, my first language is arabic and even i search the meaning of words from the quran in the dictionary sometimes, the way it's written, the scientific facts, super relatable and everything about it couldn't have been made by a human period.
@Jesus Christ Is Lord John 17:3 jesus says the only true God is the father 🤷♂️
@@sharjeelxd9852
Isaiah 20:2-3 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. 3And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;
Ezekiel 4:12 And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung (💩that cometh out of man, in their sight.
XD
The image of a guy in flat-brimmed DBZ hat saying “you’re the historical Jesus guy” to Dr. Ehrman is inexplicably hilarious to me
hey respect the dragon ballsZ believers
We pray to the monkey king/SunWuKong/SonGoKu
Our scriptures are journey to the west (old) & dragon balls Z (new)😄
Zero proof of the Jews before 950 BCE, but you never check Bible facts Rube. Kool-Aid is tasty, eh Cult Boy?
@@charleswu1485 Speaking in tongues, Pentecostal?
@@martinkent333 No, we don't use it, we use berus's method
@@martinkent333 may I ask? Are you a historian or rabbi?
With all my respect, Quran didn't copy Jesus stories from any gospel, and for example, a miracle that Jesus spoke when he was just born isn't mentioned in any book
For sure there are some similarities, bcz we believe God sent many prophets with one msg, worship One God, from Adam, Moses, Jesus, then last Muhammad peace be upon them all
I couldn't agree more
I heard that there is one book(by st.Thomas if im not mistaken) mentioned that but im not it is copied from it rather it confirms the accuracy of the Qur'an.
Ironically, Christians believe the first miracle for jesus that he turned water into wine , that shows you how corrupted bible is .
@@yagamilight6261 Arabian language wasn't even standardized like nowadays back before the Quran came, and only a handful of Arabians could read and write. Pretty impossible to copy a book from a different language at that time. Even if Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arab languages were Semitic languages, they're thousand years apart from each other and evolved separately.
@@alfianfahmi5430 Yeah,the copying assumptions is an absurd though of ignorance.
The Quran states in 4:157: "But they neither killed nor crucified him-it was only made to appear so.", notice the phrase: "IT WAS ONLY MADE TO APPEAR SO", meaning Quran confirms that that's what people witnessed and believed to be what had happened. Hence, there is no contradiction between Quran and the "historic" Jesus, as far as the crucifixion is concerned.
I don't understand how an intellectual like Bart Ehrman and others don't seem to understand such a simple concept.
Secondly, there is no evidence that the infancy gospels were present in the Arabian peninsula in the 7th century, or anywhere else for that matter, in anyone's possession that is. We Muslims actually believe that this is the proof for Islam, rather then it being the case that Quran copied it from these gospels. Dr Ehrman says that the Quran copied it from these gospels, as if there is a proof for it, which there isn't, and it is only his assumption.
@Jesus Or Muhammad Can you show me where in the Quran or Hadith it says that someone else was put on the cross instead of Jesus? That's another thing Dr Erhman gor wrong that I forgot to mention. Nowhere does it say in the Quran that someone else was put on the cross instead of Jesus.
Secondly, we do believe that Jesus was raised onto God and will return in a second coming, so that should answer your question about the tomb.
Lastly, Jesus clearly and explicitly identifies the Father as "the only true god" in John 17. You Christians chose ambiguous verses of other people over clear statements of Jesus in the Bible and proclaim divinity. You don't have the concept of Trinity in the Bible, so you're deceiving your own self and blaming God.
Can you tell me why you go against Jesus when he identifies the Father as the only true God in John 17?
@Jesus Or Muhammad Thank you for the discussion.
The other guy is right, it makes no sense for god to make it look like Jesus was crucified when he wasn't. This is clearly one of the many things M just made up or plagiarized.
@@jesan733 That guy went on a rant on the idea that someone else was put on the cross in place of Jesus and I told him that's not something that we necessarily believe. The substitution theory was only a hypothesis put forth by some Islamic scholars as a possible explanation of what might have happened. This idea is not found in the Quran or Hadith.
That guy replied to my comment with this: "So you admit its a problem if Quran says someone else was put on the cross instead of Jesus", which is quite silly, as was the rest of his reply, and so I ended the discussion there.
However, I can discuss with you whether or not it makes sense that God made it look like Jesus was crucified and killed, but in reality saved him as is stated in the Quran.
There are many reasons and evidences from the Bible itself for why it makes perfect sense that Jesus was not killed or crucified, but was saved by God. Here are a few of them:
1. Jesus was reluctant to die and he and his disciples were preparing for a fight. If his mission was to die on the cross for the sins of mankind as claimed Christians, there was no need to fight. "... and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." - [Luke 22:36].
2. He begged God to save him. "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" - [Mathew 26:39].
3. It makes more sense for God to accept his prayer then reject it. "...cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission." [Hebrews 5:7]. Also according to [John 11:42], we know that God always hears Jesus' prayers: "I knew that you always hear me.". Also read Psalms chapter 1, especially verse 1-8.
What I've listed here are perhaps the best evidences that I know for why it makes perfect sense for Jesus to be saved by God and not be crucified or killed. Whether or not this happened in reality or not is a different discussion and there are plenty of evidences that I can share with you from the bible that indicate that Jesus was alive and didn't die on the cross.
@@sameerzahid3544 well, tbh
both islamic version or christian version, it really doesn't make a sense for normal man like me
the christian version will give you a question, like "then where is his body??" or "why is he crucified if he's the god?"
the islamic version will give you a question, like "how does this possible if all of the witnesses are literally watching those event without knowing if it's faked?" or "why did the god deceiving those people?"
so, as a normal man who believe in only one god. I'm a moslem btw
Well, i don't know which one is actually correct, but as a moslem i would prefer the islamic version
but this event is not something that we have to debate
because NO ONE knows accurately except the god, the crucified man, and jesus himself
also this event is happened way back in the past, more than 2000 years ago...there is no camera back then :(
and yeah i agree with your opinion on god can do whatever he wants, so i literally have no idea what actually happened
what i really don't know is why christians have trinity idea?
a lot of people are knew that it was man made, it didn't even exists in early scriptures.
but why? what are their motive of making this kind of idea?
I love that Bart is out promoting these webinars he's doing because he's been on all of my favorite TH-cam channels talking to people who otherwise wouldn't ever get a chance to dialogue with him. He's such an intelligent and interesting guy. In the last couple months he probably has been in 5x the amount of TH-cam content as the last couple years.
Lookin skinny… got me worried a bit
Yeah, it's a good way to sell his webinars, isn't it ?
That's because he is becoming irrelevant and his supposed contradictions in the Bible have been debunked. He now has to put himself out there to the low hanging fruit that is actually gullible enough to believe what he says.
@@anarchorepublican5954 Exactly!
Mate he is not intelligent! The first thing he said was incorrect so how is he intelligent? It's all his opinions and no references or facts. Please just because some person has an option it doenst make him intelligent. Use your own brain and study what he is talking about and learn for yourself stop listening to lies and ignorant people because ultimately it makes you ignorant.
Muhammad (PBUH) was a military leader, but it’s not accurate to call him a warlord. He’s nothing like for example
Genghis Khan, where they conquer and commit mass genocide.
His early followers (E.G - Umar) would take land and liberate Coptic Christians/Jews from Roman occupation and same with Sasanians.
They conquered land simply because they believed it was justice.
Also it would’ve been better to expand on what the concept of God, between early Christians view and Islamic Theology. As the Professor previously said in Muslim podcast there’s elements of truth that Christ worshipped one God and was not viewed as a God, but referred to as Son of God in a Jewish context.
If someone has not read The Qur'aan or about the Life (Seerah of Muhammad the prophet peace be upon him should stay silent. As most speak about Muhammad out of ignorance.
True! Islam brought actual freedom for the people with the abolition of lending with interest, which was a way to get people to work for free in order to pay their ever-increasing debts, which was basically slavery. Islam finished with the practice.
Reference: History of Debt, by David Graeber.
My friend they keep saying the same thing for so many years , they saying Mohammed was a warlord as they saying but the big mistake they keep doing is that they even didn’t read their own book which saying ( Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.), again we keep telling them read about our prophet Mohammed ( pbuh) first look to ((Islamic resource)) then choose whatever he was a warlord or no .
@ph34r inovade their arrogant and ignorant of Muhammad peace be upon him, never read the Qur'aan or the Seerah and yet comment without knowledge.
@@giovannymendez9587 i guess people dont use their intellect!
The Quran has a whole chapter about Marry and Jesus .. so i would say that islam do provide an independent verification of jesus
if Quran is the copy of the early scriptures it would not challenge mankind and the Jinn Kind to go and bring something like it imagen if i copy something from Charles Dickens and make a claim to the world to bring something like it or something close enough.
Its just like made another story about marvel without the consent of the author. And claims that as canon. That how islam bullshit telling lies.
@@superanonymous467 see this is not the only claim that the Quran makes .. did the Quran consent scientists about the scientific facts that are mentioned in it since 1400 years ago ?? .. what you are missing here is the key word "independent" which means that Islam has it's own image (not actually a picture) of jesus far away from what christians believe what jesus was or did or claims to be.
Muhammad was a merchant so there's a 99.99999999% chance he heard about Jesus from Christians themselves...who cite the gospels.
@@KakashiBallZ he heard stories about a lot of people the Arabs use to tell stories around the camp fire all the times why Jesus?and why he never mixes up the stories between the Prophets?why Mohammed peace be upon him is telling us all the good things about Jesus Christ peace be upon him which Christian threatened him look Mohammed if you dont put the name of my Lord and savior in your Book i will not do Business with you?as a leader as a ruler of Arabia it is more beneficial for Mohammed pbuh to be friends with the Jews but he is telling the Jews Jesus Christ is a true messenger and a Prophet and his Mother is the Chosen one he is offending the Arabs also why would an Arab glorify a Jewish woman?besides the stories Christians believe in about Jesus Christ are either rejected in Islam or corrected what stories are you talking about?.
“So much about the circumstances of my becoming a Muslim. Since then I have been asked, time and again: ‘Why did you embrace Islam? What was it that attracted you particularly?’ and I must confess that I do not have any single satisfactory answer. It was not any particular teaching that attracted me, but the whole wonderful, inexplicably coherent structure of moral teaching and practical life-programme. I could not say, even now, which aspect of it appeals to me more than any other. Islam appears to me like a perfect work of architecture. All its parts are harmoniously conceived to complement and support each other; nothing is superfluous and nothing lacking; and the result is a structure of absolute balance and solid composure. Probably this feeling that everything in the teachings and postulates of Islam is ‘in its proper place’ had created the strongest impression on me. There might have been, along with it, other impressions as well which today it is difficult for me to analyze. After all, it was a matter of love; and love is composed of many things: of our desires and our loneliness, of our high aims and our shortcomings, of our strengths and our weaknesses. So it was in my case. Islam came over to me like a robber who enters a house by night; but, unlike a robber, it entered to remain for good.”
[Islam at the Crossroads, p.11, by Muhammad Asad (a.k.a. Leopold Weiss)]
You are clearly delusional, and haven't the power to see Islam for what it really is: A misogynistic, control mechanism.
@@musik102 How ignoramus!
@Jesus Or Muhammad You are a malicious blatant liar. There is certainly no magical flying carpet in the Qur’an. You’re a disgrace to Jesus.
@@kendarwitz5071 Anyone who believes all that nonsense about being visited by an angels and such must be lacking in a lot of metal skills such a grasp of basic logic. You are to be pitied. I feel sorry for your condition, and I only hope that at some point reality will kick in and you will see things for what they really are.
@Jesus Or Muhammad That’s not what the Qur’an says - there’s absolutely no flying carpet anywhere in the Qur’an. What you’ve, irresponsibly, did: you’ve cut from whatever loathsome source(s) you did and, then, pasted it without ascertaining such misinformation. You’ve, probably, licked what you’ve cut-and-pasted, but you, really, need to learn how to chew and digest before you think you hit the jackpot. I understand you’re incapable to verify information especially if you’re driven, and all fogged out, by some sort of inherited animosity.
I'm muslim and i love jesus, because he's my prophet❤
Not just prophet, but also the Virgin-born Messiah and messenger of God ❤️ The blessed son of Mary, who faithfully worshipped God and taught others to do the same
Muslims agree with all of that. Just not the divinity part
A" Prophet" who said" love you enemy " actualy a Statement against Islam.
All the Prophets place Jesus and Muhammad as light years above our concept of God.
@@AmirRahim19 No.Jesus said " Me and Father are ONE" and " He who saw me ,has seen the Father ".Gospel isnt a concept.He is a being.
Jesus said he has the WHOLE POWER ,and he did it by forgiving sinns.
And (remember) when ‘Îsâ (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allâh unto you, confirming the Taurât [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.1 But when he (Ahmad i.e. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) came to them with clear proofs, they said: "This is plain magic." Al Quran Chapter 61 verse 6
- Translation by Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan
If it confirms how does the Torah and gospel say Jesus will die and rise? This shows that the quran is in error concerning prophecy and historical accounts. Isaiah 53, gen 3:15, psalm 81. The whole new testament show Jesus died and rose
@@demanitorres5925 thank you for your question. The thing is for us muslims - when we refer to religious texts before we learn and study it we need to consider several factors. 1) is there a chain of narration and chronology to show when, where and the context of the verses were revealed. In in islam we literally have a chain of narration and these narrations are graded according to quality from the strongest link to the weakest link. (2) do we have these verses in the original language of the speaker that is the prophet who received this revelation? Are there copies memorised verbatim in the original language of the prophet? (3) how about original manuscripts that are carbon dated to around the era of the prophe5 he lived? And can we compare these ancient manuscripts to modern books and were there changes made or did it remain the same as it was revealed 1500 yesrs ago ( 4) Are there errors , inconsistents in the religious text? ( 5) How was the religious text compiled? Now i am sure you can understand why when i do research on the Quran vs research on the Bible the differences are obvious. The Quran in terms of the original language, prservation, chain of narration, carbon dating of ancient manuscripts and the fact that 1500 years it is the same Quran as of now, the same verses in the same language, about a few million people memorising in totality from the first chapter to final chapter...the Quran is able to meet these standards and more. When it comes to Bible these issues are not resolved and many many christians themselves who are experts and phDs in the bible acknowledge these issues. So if the Bible itself has so many issues - i feel it is now more a man made text and not the verbatim word of God. Thus refering to the Bible does not make sense to me since facts show that it does NOT reveal the original revelation that Prophet Jesus ( peace be upon him) but is just man made verses. You can refer to books written by Prof Jerald Dirks or other bible experts. To me the Quran meets all these standards and has no errors. In fact coming from a medical and science background i find some verses in the Quran amazing & scientifically accurate. The Quran is not a science textbook but a Book of Signs . But given the fact that the current text now in the Quran is exactly the same as 1500 years ago, we only have one version of the quran in Arabic and some verses i have read there is no way a bunch of illiterate pagan arabs can know that type of science 1500 years ago - to me its proof those verses are from the Creator. Plus the Quran is linguistically amazing and is consistent and accurate. The bible simply has too many, many mistakes especially if you go back to Greek language ...and Prophet Jesus spoke Aramaic ..hence again many things have been lost in translating from Aramaic to Greek and we dont have the aramaic manuscripts all lost in time. And to top it off - the jews do not accept the old testament verses used by the christians saying the version used by the christians dont match their holy books completely but there are changes made with verses omitted or re-written. Again the lack of preservation of the bible comes up..so i find difficult to accept the texts from the bible.
@@lilyrosesoul0077 there are more then 30 Arabic versions of the quran. Please stop lying. All u have to do is look up on TH-cam someone showing the different Arabic versions. As for science in the quran meteors shooting spirit beings or sperm coming from the backbone and ribs isn't scientifically. If we are looking at a historical analysis of Jesus the quran is not fit to tell history on Jesus as its written 600 plus years after his death. The fact that the quran denies his death even though its attested all throughout history shows its not hisiturcally accurate when referring to Jesus. Jesus spoke multiple languages, no where is Jesus limited to one language, its not uncommon for someone during that time to speak more then one language. He also spoke Hebrew aswell not just Aramaic. Please give me a supposed mistake or contradiction and I can use the resources I have and give you harmonization of the text. Anyways even if thr Bible had contradictions that puts the Quran at odds with itself, since the quran states allah gave the Torah and gospel down that would mean his words have changed. Either he wasn't strong enough to protect his word or he didn't care enough to protect his word. Also lets not forget allah according to the quran states he deceived those to beleive Jesus died. He is called the best of deceivers. You are following Satan unknowingly when you trust in the master deceiver. Look at the evidence of whether Jesus died or not and anyone with a honest heart towards truth will see that the quran was simply lying in surah 4 157
@@demanitorres5925 there is only 1 version of the quran in arabic. If you choose to get your information from islamicphobic websites then you will be getting the wrong information. If you choose to believe only wrong information about islam then you are already there. At least on my part i have done research from credible sources before making up my mind about which holy text has been preserved and actually going to bonafide sources instead of just regurgitating information from hate groups. Notice in my discussion i dont insult you or your faith, unlike you. Thats because in the Quran i am commanded to have a dialouge with non-believers based on grace and wisdom. Who else but God would command humans to behave in such a way? it takes courage to learn to read and think..if you feel comfortable please try learning islam from positive, clean sources. I shall share some links and info for you to check out if you wish. BUT if you have satisfied yourself that you prefer to remain as you without confirming for yourself about islam - thats ok. There is no such thing as forcing a person to believe and everybody has the freedom to choose - ultimately its your life and your soul.
@@demanitorres5925 21. Had We sent down this Quran on a mountain, you would surely have seen it humbling itself and rending asunder by the fear of Allah. Such are the parables which We put forward to mankind that they may reflect .
22. He is Allah, than Whom there is La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen (open). He is the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
23. He is Allah than Whom there is La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the King, the Holy, the One Free from all defects, the Giver of security, the Watcher over His creatures, the All-Mighty, the Compeller, the Supreme. Glory be to Allah! (High is He) above all that they associate as partners with Him.
24. He is Allah, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names . All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. Quran Chapter 57 verse 22 go 24
If the Quran has bits copied from the Bible (based on the similarity argument) then you must also agree that the bible has bits copied from the Torah (old testaments) by the exact same argument.
We say that islam or the Quran does have similarities with the previous scripture because it has the exact same author. Hence explaining similarities between the Bible and Torah. However the Quran and Torah have way more similarities (especially when it comes to God and his oneness) than compared with the bible. That is very interesting and already says alot. Jews would anytime and anyday tell you that muslims are closer to them (in doctrine) than christians (trinitarians).
@Jesus Or Muhammad Like we already said. You are proving our point. If prophet Mohammed pbuh had heard stories and then retold them this would be the 'similarty argument'. This would apply in the exact same way to biblical Jesus who 'has heard stories from the jews and retold it but in the wrong way'. You cannot EVER attack islam without attacking your own scripture.
The Prophet did not make a mistake vut you did. Did you forget to mention that the Quran says both scriptures have been CORRUPTED? Or did you conveniently leave that out? That means if the Prophet cited the Torah exactly as it is NOW he would have recited a CORRUPTED book and would be contradicting himself. Therefore he recited what he says was the actual message which is similar but not fully. So now you have a challenge. Who is telling the truth the Quran or current day Torah or Bible. To simply say well its the Bible or Torah is not an argument. You kust provide proof that the bible of today is the original scripture an secondly it is the word of God.
First you have to establish the bible is the truth. The Quran can be proven to be the word of God in 2 different ways. 1 via the previous scriptures. But more importantly number 2. In and on itself. The Quran stands on itself and does not in any way shape or from lean on previous scripture except that which is mentioned in the Quran and was also mentioned in previous scriptures.
Tell you what. You prove the bible is from God. We will prove the Quran is from God.
What does not qualifiy as proof?
- Bible (or Quran)saying it is the truth (circular argumentation).
- Other scriptures and references
- (first hand) accounts and testimonies as all religions have those and defeat eachother.
Can you prove the bible is the word of God? Go!
@Jesus Or Muhammad Thats a great story. But not very interested. Its just a story. Different peoples have differenf stories. Some believe in santa. Thats very great.
Now lets talk proof.
Can you prove the Bible is from God without using other scriptures or testimonies?
Simple question. All this talk but yet you have to establish that the bible is indeed from God first. While you just Simple skip this whole step and just take it to be so. We do understand logic when we see it. So give us some logic to prove the bible is from God or we will give you logic to prove the bible is not from God!
Just to clarify. Since you don't seem to catch on. We believe there was once a book called the Bible or Injeel given to Prophet Jesus. We DO NOT believe that the current day bible is that book.
So now you need to provide proof.
Again:
No using other scriptures.
No testimonies and first hand accounts.
No circular arguments (bible says so).
Now go. We are waiting.
To be fair you can of course ask us to prove the Quran is from God on a stand alone basis. We will provide!
@@theislamicjourney960 Yes the Bible is from God, Jesus miracles are proof of his divine nature. Muslims don’t understand why Jesus made himself the lamb for the sins of humanity. He proof his divinity by resurrecting himself from the dead after been crucified. The quran makes claims that have no grounds nor witnesses to it. Ask Jesus to show you the truth, and do it from the heart, he will reveal the truth to you. Hope you come to Jesus before it is too late.
@Jesus Or Muhammad you can't follow the commandments and Jesus your idol worshipping Jesus is against God's Commandments
@Jesus Or Muhammad The man asked you so many times to prove if the Bible we have to day is from God and you some how can't prove that, because you can't prove it. If Christianity means the one who follows Jesus Christ the son of Marry than We Muslims are more Christians than Christians them selves.
I personally have a ton of respect for Reza Aslan. Zealot was the first book that I had ever read about the historical Jesus. I have read several more books on the topic since and I don’t think that I agree with all of Aslan’s conclusions. However, Zealot was the book that made me interested in the historical Jesus in the first place. It was also that interest that lead me to MythVision Podcast! 😉
I think Mohammed as a prophet is more comparable to Moses rather than Jesus. The life of Jesus has much less aspects in terms of politics, struggle against powerful enemies, family life, nation establishment and leadership, emigration, daily life guidelines and delivering a detailed jurisprudence through an exhaustive holy book.
I disagree. Jesus and Moses were both under threat of death when they were born. Both went down to Egypt. Both had power over the elements, Muhammad couldn't do miracles says the Quran. Both Jesus and Moses fed the multitudes miraculously. Moses said the prophet would come from the Jews. Jesus said he was he who Moses spoke of. Even in death neither grave could be found but we know but we know where Muhsmmed is buried. All the prophets in the Old Testament came from the line of Isaac not Ishmael. God told Abraham the promises would be reckoned through Isaac not Ishmael.
And who is the greater prophet? Jesus was born sinless. Muhammad sinned says the Qur'an. Jesus did many miracles, healed the sick, raised the dead, walked on water, calmed storms, fed the multitudes and all Muhammad did in the Qur'an is tell the Jews and Christians he couldn't do miracles. Where is Muhammad now? Waiting to cross a pole hoping he will be alright. He even got his followers to pray it would go well for him when he goes before Allah. Jesus confidently knew where he was going when he died. He committed himself to God as he breathed his last earthly breathe. Jesus is with God right now and is coming back to judge the world. Doesn't that tell who the greatest prophet is?
Jesus fulfills over 300 Messianic Old Testament prophecies. You can't even find Muhsmmad in the Old or New Testaments. Muslims desperately try but he simply isn't there. I've read them numerous times and some of the Muslim suggestions are ridiculous.
@@denisHolySpirit Muhammad couldn't do miracles, nor Moses or Jesus. God made miracles and showed them through his prophets. Muhammad has arguably more miracles than any other prophet. Muhammad for example watered multitudes like Moses, and fed multitudes like Jesus, as recorded and witnessed by thousands in the trench battle. Moses never said that prophets will always come from jews. God is just and sent prophets to nations, including nations before Judaism. The graves of Moses and Jesus are well known in Palestine (the Khan Al Ahmar and the sepulcher, although Jesus is not buried there as he was raised). The promises were given to Abraham and his children. The claims that Jacob got these promises to himself and his children by defeating G_D or angel or by fooling his father are heretical claims to the least.
Muhammad and all the prophets are sinless, although they may make unintentional mistakes. Like Quran, Bible says that about Jesus too.
In spite of being confident about their rewards in heaven, Muhammad kept telling believers not to be arrogant and advised them to keep asking God to forgive their sins and to give them higher and higher places in paradise.
While there are many prophecies and indications about Muhammad found in the bible, and many rabbis and pastors would tell you that and some of them I know converted to Islam, but I am still happy that you are exerting your effort to prove that Jesus was a prophet like Moses. BTW, prophets are humans not gods.
@Jesus Or Muhammad Yes I understand your point. The similarities I mentioned should not imply that the content of the holy books are the same. The Muslims understanding is that the original Torah was manipulated and distorted by people after Moses. You can easily find several historical, scientific and logical mistakes and contradictions in it. The main focus in the bible now is on stories and genealogical trees with very little on jurisprudence and hardly anything about life after death. Sometimes it even offends G_D. This is why God sent other prophets after Moses to re-direct people into the right way again. The Christian bible had a similar fate, except that the book revealed to Jesus is entirely lost. Quran's main focus is on jurisprudence and foundations of faith. Quran corrects some of the main stories in Torah wherever there can be a sermon or a lesson for us.
@Jesus Or Muhammad 1-with all respect, Jews can use your arguments against Christians too.
2-The fact that the Bible is manipulated is well known among scholars. In fact you don't even need to be a scholar to see the differences between current denomination, let alone the changes over the long history. 3- the main point I say is that Quran recognizes Jesus's gospels and Torah as books from god that are distorted later by people. If the message of Moses remains the same, there wouldn't be a need for Jesus or any new prophets after Moses. This is also why Quran is different from Torah as you mentioned.
I forgot to mention, Vis Zak, Jesus didn't need to come with governing laws, politics etc because that was all in place with Mosaic law.
In Islam there isn't too much specifically about Jesus to really do too much comparisons with like historical studies of Jesus(A). But yeah, being seen as not God makes more sense in general.
For the crucifixion issue, it's basically a miracle in Islam. We believe it was made to appear as if it was Jesus being crucified but it wasn't him (potentially someone else was made to look like him). But there are a few interesting supporting points. The Bible says Jesus says something like "God why did you forsake me", which seemed out of character. And if he wasn't really crucified it might actually make the resurrection scenario make more sense where people were seeing him. Then there was also the point where someone who saw him couldn't recognize Jesus (potenial of Jesus swapping appearance with whoever was crucified). The Quran actually doesn't even bring up these points but interesting these things are found in the Bible. But since this is a miracle event not much else to really argue about.
The clay bird getting life is pretty interesting too especially if there isn't much backing that it was well known in Arabia although I did hear there was actually an infancy gospel found with that event. Something to keep in mind is that Muhammad(S) was an illiterate man and there isn't much backing of him trying to study with Christians
And then there are a few other things mentioned not from the Bible, so it just makes things more weird, why someone far away is just making up stories (e.g the Mary story). There is just too much bizarre things one would have to believe to consider Islam as being made up if one studied Islam and Mohammed.
Wow! It takes an unbiased and sensible person to break down this the way you did. The part where you said Muhammad was an illiterate just negates the man saying Muslims don't have access to Jesus other than Christian documents
@Jesus Or Muhammad Speaking of prophecy, do you know of any Muhammad made? I grew up in a family where both parents practised both religions and I studied both. I find there are more Muslims that know more about Christianity than Christians about Islam
@@p11361 it does as you said they were scripted. Stories are lost with time and even become inaccurate. Considering how he grew up he wasn't the type does too much story telling. I think you need to look into his life more for you to understand or better still study the Quran. It's very impossible to have a book over 1000 years old that is unchallenged and relevant in all aspects
@Jesus Or Muhammad does muhammad really contradict previous prophets? Really?
A simple examination between abrahamic religion can tell you which stand odd about understanding of god.
Judaism- god is 1 indivisible
Christianity- god is 3 in 1
Islam- god is 1 indivisible
@@p11361 is the disciple present when the supposed 'cruxifixion' of jesus
Even cruxifixion was supposed to be long excruciating death, but 'jesus' crucified and died on the same day..
Also when jesus supposed 'ressurection' when he goes to his disciple and ate broiled fish and honeycomb, the disciple were spooked but jesus rebuked them does the dead eat? It shows that the disciple only heard of jesus 'death' from hearsay not from their own eyes.
This not included the contradiction of miracle of jonah and death of jesus yet, the so called 3 days and 3 nights..
When you study history of many other prophets before the Jesus (pbuh), then Islam makes far more sense.
When Prophet Jonah was thrown into the ocean, he was supposed to be drown and dead but God saved him from near death.
When Joseph was thrown into well, he was supposed to be drown in the well and dead, but God saved him from near death.
Likewise Prophet Noah supposed to be drown in the flood water, but God save him from near death.
Moses was chased by biggest military ever known to Moses, but God saved Moses from near death.
Prophet Lot was forcefully escorted to safety and saved by angels, when wrath of God sent down upon Sodom and Gomorrah.
Prophet Daniel supposed to be eaten by lions, but God saved him from near death.
Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) was chased by pagan-arabs but God saved him from near death.
As per the Quran, Jesus was not killed nor he was crucified but it was made appeared to the enemies and God saved Jesus (pbuh) from humiliation, torture, nakedness and near death.
Quran 4-157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
The God who created this infinite universe did not subject mercy and salvation upon crime against humanity in the killing blameless prophet of God and I believe God have power over everything where Prof Ehrman does not believe in miracles.
Islam stands before the God and Islam is valid before the God.
@Jesus Or Muhammad How can stories in the Torah to be accurate, when T0rah is bad to core.
soothing BBQ to the LORD. Leviticus 1-9, Leviticus 4-31, Leviticus 3-16, Genesis 8-21, Exodus 29-18.
Deceiving an enemy was done by the God of Abraham in the OT.
NT is human book, it did not exists when Jesus(pbuh) was around.
God of Abraham never taught human red-liquid is needed for mercy and salvation and God disliked it.
@Jesus Or Muhammad _"who looked like Jesus was dead and placed in a tomb, both Jesus and the dead body of this person who looked like Jesus were both gone. "_
All human fabricated stories later developed to fit the theology and your theology itself violates God's majestic nature every corner you turn.
@Jesus Or Muhammad I have proved to you already corrupted state of T0rah, that is the reason why stories differ between the Quran and Torah yet the core theology between Torah and the Quran remain the same.
Wasn't that your main point on your post on this threat.
And then deceiving the enemies, which God does.
And the God of Abraham never taught anyone to believe in human red-liquid for mercy and salvation.
@Jesus Or Muhammad _"You Muslims always says Allah's revelations are shit, like Torah and New Testament/Gospel. "_
Injeel was revealed to Jesus(pbuh), whereas books in the NT never did existed when Jesus was around.
That is not rocket science to figure out. So books in the NT is not Injeel.
So please don't tell me, your books in the NT is injeel, stop it.
@Jesus Or Muhammad _"If Allah made someone else look like Jesus on the cross, why was his dead body no longer in the tomb? "_
It was the mumbo jumbo was created by human authors, all made up stories.
Jesus was a man not God, both early Christians and Muslims agree.
That is a very good starting point towards the real truth.
May Allah guide us.
آمين آمين يارب العالميـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــن
"It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
And [thus it was that Jesus always said]: "Verily, God is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer; so worship [none but] Him: this (alone] is a straight way."
And yet, the sects [that follow the Bible] are at variance among themselves [about the nature of Jesus"
Quran [Maryam : 35-37]
Dr. Ehrman was absolutely PIVOTAL in my deconstruction of Christianity. I needed evidence to leave.. definitely found what I was looking for, thanks to this very wise man. I am a much happier person now that I’m out of that poisonous thinking. Thank you so much for having Dr. Ehrman on your show!
Same
What was the fundamental evidence Dr Ehrman gave for you to leave your faith? Just curious as I know comments can be read different on the Internet to the meaning
@@ceej8582
On my view, Mary (levi tribe) married to Joseph (Yehuda tribe) is blatant bogus story' , for prohibited in Israeli Law
Numbers 36:8
And every daughter, that possesseth an inheritance in any tribe of the children of Israel, shall be wife unto one of the family of the tribe of her father, that the children of Israel may enjoy every man the inheritance of his fathers.
"Dr. Ehrman was absolutely PIVOTAL in my deconstruction of Christianity."
You can deconstruct human rights too using the same arguments. We are just dead atoms, there are no human rights, women rights, gay rights... go all the way in.
@@josepheridu3322 Your christian logic is weird and confounding to twist it anyway to avoid reality
I haven’t had the chance to watch Dr. Ehrman’s webinar but I know it must be good. I’ve followed him for years and he is an excellent speaker and great scholar. I really like the way he present his views, very direct bun in a very honest and respectful way, and even hardened Christians and now Muslims for sure can listen to him and don’t feel offended but grateful to know that their beliefs are not what they were told, so they can reflect and think about them.
We believe that Quran is the true word of God.
When God says in the Quran that he was not crucified it means that he was not crucified.
Read the Quran and see if it’s actually the word of God and make your decision regarding what has happened to Jesus
@@sailain It is not the word of God. Word of a human at best.
@@apo.7898 Read it and find out by yourself
I did. It was not. He was crucified.@@sailain
It's amazing how much Dr. Ehrman shaped my understanding of the historical Jesus. Thanks for having him on your channel
Seems you are looking for what you desire, but not truth.
@@SamirAliyev771 How? He said shaped my understanding not agreed with my understanding
@@SamirAliyev771 And what’s the truth?
@@Peanut888.. Submitting to only Almighty GOD which is one, and not associating any partner with Him.
and Son of Mary (Peace be Upon Her) Jesus (Peace be Upon Him) is one of mightiest messengers with duty of spreading message of GOD which is "Submitting to only Almighty GOD which is one, and not associating any partner with Him." and was the duty of all messengers (Peace be Upon all of them).
@@SamirAliyev771 well this contradicts the holy scriptures because this is NOT the message Jesus came to preach !
From the outset, Drm Ehrman got the story of Jesus breathing life into birds and other miracles as an infant, and attributed that to the
Quran. The Quran stated that Jesus spoke as a baby in defense of his mother's chastity when accused by her kilns of committing adultery. The Quran also stated at that time that is sent as a prophet to the children of Israel and the he IS GIVEN THE POWER TTO RAISE THE DEAD AND HEAL THE SICK AND OTHER MIRACLES., but those miracles came to pass later in the ministry of Christ, and NOTPERFORMED BY HIM AS INFANT. It is important to note that Jesus NEVER unequivocally and clearly stated that he was G_d. Also the doctrine of trinity and crucifixion came more than 200 years after the alleged crucifixion of Christ.
Nailed it 👌. Shall I copy paste.
1. Jesus and the clay birds come from Gnostic writings dating centuries before Islam.
2. Jesus never said "I am God" but He did say "I am Son of God". Jesus also said He existed before the world was created, He accepted being worshiped and being called God. Jesus also said He is final judge etc all these claims hint at Jesus being divine. Jesus not saying "I am God" is such a weak argument to make. Anyone who reads the Gospels sees Jesus is clearly divine.
3. Trinity is mentioned first in the first century by Didache and in the second century by Polycarp, Ignatius etc. It's false that the trinity came 200 years later. Google trinitrianism in the church fathers.
4. You saying the crucifixion came 200 years after the crucifixion is just plain nonsense. We have the early Christian creed dating within 2 years after the crucifixion, then Paul's letters 15/20 years, then Mark's Gospel 30/40 years. We also have non-Christian sources confirmiing the crucifixion.
@@sneezystudios5856 I mistakenly added crucifixion to trinity when referring to the introduction of trinity into Christian theology.
For a thorough discussion on Paul, trinity and the nature of Christ, please watch the following videos, by Christian, Jewish and Muslim scholars, debating and providing factual evidence, not mere conjecture.
th-cam.com/video/6JU9J0XVlzQ/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/TZoC-iPb7uU/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/0zZUEgtBGjY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/OmkwcGAt3XQ/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/AvPYCx38fTM/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/FWpqqqZn7Kg/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/dLJZaPMoZG4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/oHVR4cZXwO0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/LUTjEol6jRQ/w-d-xo.html
Kind regards.
The Gospel of Thomas is where your Quran gets the breath of life into birds from.
The defence of Mary's chastity comes from the Gospel of Mary Magdelene.
More plagerisation from books that you say are corrupted.
So why quote them?
They were written CENTURIES before the Quran.
@@spiritof6986 my dear friend no one is saying that there were no scriptures before quran. Its just that the Holy Quran is the only book which is still in its pure form . And this is free from corruption.till date and inshallah beyond.
Jesus as a zealot who fought the Romans is more in line with the messiah of the Jews who would be a warrior like king 🤴 David
Bart: "Most Muslims don't realize stories in Quran can be found elsewhere written earlier"
Fact: Islam considers the early followers of Jesus( ) to be Muslims as Jesus( ) was Muslim. Quran serves to preserve and validate New Testament and the previous Books in their uncorrupted form, not claim to be brand new. the need for this arose when New Testament and the other Books were corrupted, with the former being fiddled with by certain Jews and the Roman state.
the Quran, from its point of revelation to its current state of preservation, precedes New Testament in being actually authentic to the teaching of Jesus( ) and being in a form that's just older in existence.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
the real christian confusion about jesus comes from the fact that they think jesus was a westerner
@Jesus Or Muhammad Please take some time to read the Quaran, all this info is in the Quaran. The prophets of Islam include: Adam, Idris (Enoch), Nuh (Noah), Hud (Heber), Saleh (Methusaleh), Lut (Lot), Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Yaqub (Jacob), Yusuf (Joseph), Shu’aib (Jethro), Ayyub (Job), Dhulkifl (Ezekiel), Musa (Moses), Harun (Aaron), Dawud (David), Sulayman (Solomon), Ilyas (Elias), Alyasa (Elisha), Yunus (Jonah), Zakariya (Zachariah), Yahya (John the Baptist), Isa (Jesus) and Muhammad. Peace be upon them all. In 25 Prophets of Islam you will learn: 1. That God is one. 2. About revelations mentioned in the Quran. 3. That the prophets were Muslims. 4. That Jesus was not the son of God. 5. Who committed the first murder. 6. About the similarity between Adam and Jesus. 7. What the Quran says about homosexuality. 8. Which prophet God spoke to direct. 9. The Quaran makes references to previous scripture to convey a message which was forgotten. Islam is not a new religion, it is the religion from when God made Adam. Your God is Our God because Muslims believe God created Adam and Eve and everything else on this earth and in the universe.
@Jesus Or Muhammad exactly I have read the Quaran and the Hadith... it's just a bunch of circular reasoning and hype to justify Muhammad's atrocities.
The problem is the infancy gospels are written 300 years after jesus.
My understanding of the English Version of Qu'ran 157, is NOT that somebody else was Crucified, but that Jesus "APPEARED TO BE CRUCIFIED", necessarily indicating the presence of witnesses, but that the Crucifixion of Jesus "DID NOT HAPPEN".
Which begs the questions, "HOW COULD THAT POSSIBLY BE, and WHO TOLD THEM THAT???"
Psychologists claim to have proven, that "Mass Hallucination" cannot happen.
--- But just within the last 20 years, a Concept has seeped into our Lexicon, called "Mandela Effect".
--- Was there a "Mass Hallucination" of Nelson Mandela's death, or is it possible, that CREATOR's Universe, has the Power, to REVERSE TIME, under very RARE and EXTRAORDINARY circumstances?
--- Is "Mandela Effect" so outrageous, that it is more unbelievable than being "raised from the dead"?
As far as the SOURCE for this claim of a "Crucifixion Hallucination", could there be any Source, OTHER THAN "Gabriel"???
If not, WHO told Muhammad to have this ASTONISHING claim written down?
My personal belief, is that Qu'ran 157 is CORRECT. The so-called "Crucifixion of Jesus", was a MANDELA EFFECT. But that's just me.
Oh......and the "Holy of Holies" split in two, making the story I believe, to be even MORE unbelievable.
Very interesting، what you say about the Mandelas effect. But the story about the moon split never happened, is fake .
Really enjoying your videos (and I'm a big fan of Dr. Ehrman.)
You said one of the videos you were atheist?
@@saheb-jg9nj and neither the Quran says jesus was raised up alive either key word right there. He is not over 2000 years old in space or the cosmos like a astronaut. Jesus died a natural death there is no second coming full stop its a pagan paulatine Christian belief.
@@saheb-jg9nj I've never said I'm Atheist. I am Agnostic. But I did once say in a video that I'm somewhere on the spectrum of Agnostic Atheist and Agnostic Deist.
Loved this as a Muslim its great to hear from scholars. Whilst bart may not know much about Islamic history he does have his opinions and that should be respected.
During the time of Jesus there was many people living that was called Jesus.
Barabas the man who was let go according to Christian scripture his first name was Jesus and barabas means son of God.
Bart could be correct that a Jesus was crucified but he can never be certain it was THE Jesus as that name was very common.
@Jesus Or Muhammad that's your opinion and I respect that. I respect all opinions because everyone has one. If you knew even the basics of Islam you will see how ignorant your comment is but again. I will say that's just your opinion.
@@nazirimam997 Historical accounts attest that it was indeed Jesus that was executed.
@Jesus Or Muhammad jeez man leave people alone
@@nazirimam997 What is the basics of islam, tell me.
@@shanebell2514 -belief in god and his messengers(Except isa is not Jesus)
Dr Bart is doing his best to avoid Islam and his teaching about JESUS PEACE BE UPON HIM P
You keep repeating that Muhammad (PBUH) was a warlord military prophet. However, the earliest wars in Islamic history were defensive wars. So my question is, Is an aggressor a warlord? is defending yourself makes you a warlord? What is a warlord?
Caravan robbing isn't technically a defensive war. Thief is more accurate than warlord. 😀
Fraud mohmad is exposed by channels like nabi asli and Christian price
Bart is a New Testament Scholar.
He is not a Qur'anic Scholar...
The Jesus stories that Quran picks up, could really help understand the area where Quran originated from.
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was not a "warlord", he was a stateman who had legitimate rule over Madina.
then married a 6 years old Girl and had sex with her when she was 9 .
Actually he was. And what prophecy did he do to call him a prophet?
@MandelaFelix007 Actually, he wasn't.
Many prophecies. I'll give you one.
The conquest of Constantinople by the great commander Mehmet al-Fatih in 1453. This was one of the biggest military events in world history, and the Prophet ﷺ blessed its Commander and Army 800 years prior to its occurrence.
@@abdullahimusa9761 yes agreed very big historical prophecy. Every single criteria Muhammad have came to fruition.
Why would they,when Islam is a more recent religion than Christianity.
According to Gospel of Barnabas, Jesus was not crucified. Judas Iscariot (whose face was made to resemble his) replaced him on the cross, and Jesus was raised into heaven by God.
Fake gospel
Maybe we forgot, Al Quran is the book from Allah. Words from Allah, of coz Allah knows more about Jesus then we do. May Allah shows the right path to all of us. 😊
Agreed with you. But base on the comments i have read here. the non-muslims here have not actually read a good translation of the Quran plus most of them refuse to believe that Quran has been preserved and not corrupted. So for the unbelievers here most of them will not have an open mind. In fact many of them are repeating misinformation about Islam.
@Kamal Razali
If Jesus wasn't crucified and it was made to appear that he was crucified, then it is Allah's fault that Christianity exists today.
Allah deceived the disciples of Jesus by making them believe that Jess was crucified and resurrected from the dead and they went about spreading his resurrection to the whole world?
So Allah started Christianity?
@@itiswritten9423 that's such a stupid argument,
"The biblical God killed all of humanity when he drowned the earth in water, He abused the poor man job because he was gambling satan, He told Moses to get the virgin women for himself, He told Moses to kill the children and women and men"
Use smarter arguments instead of "Allah let this happen"
Because he did, To test us, and all of humanity
@Jesus Or Muhammad I've seen your videos of these so called
"Quran miracles debunked"
You havened debunked anything, Everything you've said on their was of weak narration chains of hadith, wing translation, because Arabic is hard to translate for one word has couple of meaning,
@Jesus Or Muhammad I've got a degree in hadith science, What do you have? Nothing except hatred, You're not even a scientist, but then next your gonna say I am,
As a Muslim, it bothers me that Christians present Jesus as a savior who sacrificed himself for humanity only... He is not presented as a moral ideal in all fields for children and youth. Rather, we see a lack of respect for his person on the part of some.Christ and his companions must be presented as a perfect icon of morals and human values, and those who insult these icons must be criminalized.
There are many Christians who believe in the injil and believe that Jesus pbuh was only a human and that God is not triune but one
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Why would they be the perfect icons? Do you know about them? No. Christ can be an icon, and we know Muhammed SAW well than Christ. So, the following Muhammed SAW is the best.
Mr Bart says Jesus never claimed that He is God. Good point. By saying this He got closer to Islam and I hope if he will study more He can achieve being a Muslim
I respect Dr Bart Ehrman but I feel the quick concept that he hold that the Qur'an does not have historical access to Jesus is wrong, and this very flimsy excuse that they got it from the early Christians is also a weak response, rather than at least looking at the possibility that Qur'an has information that Bible does not have, To say that the gospel of Thomas mentions Jesus and clay birds is not evidence of copying as the Gospel of Thomas was not discovered until 1945. the Qur'an revealed 1,500 before it, it was found in Egypt. So Dr Ehrman should not ridicule the Qur'an so quickly he has proven that Prophet Muhammad (as) was aware of its existence and that it was written in Arabic otherwise how could he have known about it? or that his companions knew and were fluent in Greek and that they travelled to Egypt,
Also where the heck does it say Jesus pbuh made clay bird as a baby, I though the only thing he did as a baby was speak.
Fact: Atheists ridicule Islam more than any Christian would. If Islam makes no sense to a Christian it makes even less sense to a non-thiest.
Bart is a scholar of the New Testament, big respect to him. But he’s not a scholar of the Quran or Islam, so I’m very interested to listen to what he has to say about the New Testament, asking him about the Islamic position is pointless.
@Jesus Or Muhammad you have a different Jesus than muslims do have, christianity has nothing to do with islam 2 different religion. Jesus of the muslims the spirit of god, the words of god whom will return to earth. Jesus of the muslims is with god the true god. your god you have already killed him 2000 year ago, witch god you believe in now is beyond me
@Jesus Or Muhammad your reaction has nothing in what i just said, you god was killed, so witch you believe in i don’t care’ ghe islam as i saud has nothing to do with christianity a total different religion it came 600 years or thousands years still a different religion that’s why i don’t understand the content why they looking what muslims do believe in, the muslim Jesus is different to what the christians have. Period
@Jesus Or Muhammad you fool i am mot a muslim i don’t care weathe the muslim god gave 100.000 or 1000000 mesrnger as you said or chicken, your gid was fake once he’s a father than a don than gids now what he’s the father let his don get killed by your people and promises you heaven what kind of god is this? Just a fake story so does all religion
@Jesus Or Muhammad neither do i
@Jesus Or Muhammad you should watch how the Bible led me to islam by yusha evans
What does a Muslim say about Jesus? So no one needs to be interviewed, every Christian should take the Qur'an and read it, the interviewers can mislead you but the Qur'an will not do that.
4:157
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Allah let for 600 years grow up Christianity because of “cloning” Jesus. And for this they are mentioned in the Quran as unbelievers and go to hell… If one is a deceiver, then the Quran.
@@lalo4154 Trinity came centuries after Jesus. The first christians were monotheistic
@@sofianee3580 Did we talk about the trinity right now? But anyway, you are welcome. And who told you Christian’s are not Monotheists? 😋
The Godhead in three Persons (trinity= three united) is even inside the Old Testament. Even in the first Verse of Genesis, God present himself during the creation as Multipersonal. And by his word he created. Father, his Ghost and The Word (Jesus).
Genesis 1
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said,“Let there be light,” and there was light….
God Create and his Ghost was hovering over the Water. How many Persons do you see in this Verse?
Just and Example, the Old Testament is full of evidence of three Persons as one god.
Christians don't need the Quran they have the Bible which is more than enough and I'm saying that as a Muslim
@@lalo4154 Christians believe in 3 gods
Dr. Ehrman is absolutely right in asserting that the Qur'an has no access to the historical Jesus. The only thing the Qur'anic narrator had access to was early Christian stories told and retold by Christian story-tellers. That was the very nature of a folkloric ancient culture.
The only way one can find solace and certitude in their faith in the Qur'anic narration of the past prophets and events is by believing that it didn't have an earthly source and that the information came straight down from the heaven. The academics will, however, not buy into that and it will end up becoming a matter of personal conviction at length.
Well, "experts' opinions" are also speculation after all.
Are the saints coming out of the grave a part of folklore. Matthew 27:52-53)
The hilarity is, because Bart said Jesus wasn't resurrected they jumped on that as proof Christianity was false and they loved Bart.
However, they didn't listen long enough to realise Bart also discredited the Islamic version too!
This fellow is looking for historical Jesus in Gospels. Gospels are some books writen much later.They have no relevance in Quran, they are not divine. Corruption happened in Torah. Gospels may be corrupted as well, but that is different than the corruption in Torah. Jesus did not receive any revelation.
@@almazchati4178 what's the injil if not the gospels?
And the earliest fragments of gospels are within a century of Jesus and the earliest complete set are from about the 2nd or 3rd century.
The first completed Koran isn't till the mid 8th century.
The Koran is an editing job.
@@josm1481 It is an Arabic word which is connotative with sickle. Jesus was sickling out various out growths around the teachings of Moses. Read Reza Aslan. Quran was completed during Prophet's life time, the last verse states that. It was written down under his supervision in several copies. It
was reproduced by communal agreement. Mary was not a virgin. There were a lot of Christian converts to Islam, and they mistakenly identified these books as corrupted revelations. Injil is not a book.
@@josm1481 The earliest fragments of the Quran are within a few years of the Prophet Muhammad. The first completed Quran is within a century. This is something that Christian apologists can only dream of for the Bible.
@@issamedin306 no, that's a lie. The Koran is simply an editing job. The earliest fragments of what might be the Koran actually predate Uthman and many even most likely Muhammad.
The earliest near complete Koran is from the middle to end of the 8th century, so over 100yrs after Muhammad supposedly lived.
Barth Ehrman is a Legend
Defeated by James White.
I find Bart's statements very disturbing... You see, he repeatedly acknowledged that the Quran's views matched those of the early christians (which by itself is a blow to today's christians in their views about Jesus) and yet he still thinks the Quran got it wrong on the debatable issues and forgot that they are debateable and that the Quran could be correct about them just as well... He also repeatedly kept saying that Quran got its views from the early christians without any citation being known nor proof that he presents to his statements...He ignored the Quran saying that it came from God which could explain why it contradicts with so many corrupted christian views of today.. One minute he is saying with proof that the Quran is correct on Jesus in some aspects and then goes against it in others without proof to the accuracy of his own statements... He is also jokingly saying that the Quran under estimated Jesus and yet his own words earlier indicated that the Quran got so many very significant facts about Jesus correctly... This was not very professional of you this time Barty!!
On the good side, he did admit that early christians didnt believe Jesus was a god and that he was a man and a Prophet...
He needs to consider the case that what if the Quran was right in everything and not only the rather major things that it gets right in his own words...He needs to be more profesdional
When he says early Christians he means early Christian gnostics
@@gingerbreadzak More likely self-purported christian gnostics, early or late.
Dr. Bart was a Christian thus still tainted by the 'Christian' thought. He will never say the Quran got Jesus correct and the Bible didn't, regardless of evidence or he will be crucified 'professionally' and intellectually. It is what it is.
@@tombushing4907 Your right... I just thought that when he kept exposing the contradictions in the bible and then agreeing with the Quran on duch significant points that he was so professional to a point where I was nearly sure that he will himself convert some day but then I got dissapointed and my dissapointed was mainly on the professionality side as he kindof fell out of my eye when he started playing word games instead of being professionally blunt like were used to see him as he any professional should be
@@damosoo4528 what do you mean by professionality? If inside your head you only know Christian x Islam, you're totally wrong. Leave Christian faith after know the "truth" doesn't mean Islam can provide him the true "truth". What he mean is Christian & Islam both wasn't the truth. Islam inherit some false gospel rejected by Christian and proven not match with history, right in to their holy book.
Sorry for my bad english
St Paul destroyed Christianity his idea and concept about relegion was completely different from semetic relegion jew and muslims
"He could've been a doctor." Mary
I like to imagine Jesus preaching to the multitude and saying, "She was so fat..."
And then someone in the crowd yelling back, "How fat?"
@@Simon.the.Likeable Mark 3:21 always gives me a chuckle
@@TheColonelKlink Kinda contradicts John 2:5 😉
Oy Vey!
@@TheColonelKlink "He is beside himself" or "He is out of his mind." Today, Jesus would have been prescribed antipsychotic medication. If that was the case two millennia ago, with him on a more stable mental footing, the entire fracas might have been avoided.
Islam has a prophet "Isa" but where does the name "Jesus or Yeshua" appears in the Quran. Are you talking about the same person or a reconstructed Jesus.?
Arabic name lol all the Prophets has Arabic names like Musa is Moses and Noah is Nuuh
Thats bcos u cant read arabic. Its "Isaa " i starts from larynx hard sounds like Y. And its definitely not jesus!
Jesus wouldn't have turned around if you called him at that time 🙄🤯
Then God will say, “O Jesus son of Mary! Remember My Blessing upon thee, and upon thy mother, when I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, that you mightest speak to people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught thee the Book, the Wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel;” and how thou wouldst create out of clay the shape of a bird, by My Leave; and how though wouldst breathe into it, and it would become a bird, by My Leave; and thou wouldst heal the blind and the leper, by My Leave; and thou wouldst bring forth the dead, by My Leave; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from thee, when thou didst bring the clear proofs, and those disbelieved among them said, “This is naught but manifest sorcery.” And when I inspired the apostles to believe in Me and in My messenger, they said, “We believe. Bear witness that we are submitters.” (5:110-111)
When the apostles said, “O Jesus son of Mary! Is thy Lord able to send down to us from Heaven a table spread with food?” [Jesus son of Mary] said, “Reverence God, if you are believers.” They said, “We desire to eat from it, so that our hearts may be at peace, and we may know that thou hast spoken truthfully unto us, and we may be among the witnesses thereto.” Jesus son of Mary said, “O God, our Lord! Send down unto us a table from Heaven spread with food, to be a feast for us - for the first of us and the last of us - and a sign from Thee, and provide for us, for Thou art the best of providers.” God said, “I shall indeed send it down unto you. But whoever among you disbelieves thereafter, I shall surely punish him with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any other in all the worlds.” (5:112-115)
And when God said, “O Jesus son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind, “Take me and my mother as gods apart from God?” [Jesus son of Mary] said, “Glory be to Thee! It is not for me to utter that to which I have no right. Had I said it, Thou wouldst surely have known it. Thou knowest what is in my self and I know not what is in Thy Self. Truly it is Thou Who knowest best the things unseen. I said naught to them save that which Thou commanded me: “Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.” And I was a witness over them, so long as I remained among them. And Thou art Witness over all things. If Thou punisheth them they are indeed Thy servants, but if Thou forgiveth them, then indeed Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.” (5:116-118)
There are many passages in the Quran to look at, if one wants to understand the role of Jesus in the eyes of the Prophet and early Islam. See in particular, and most easily, passages (e.g., 19:16-21; 3:45-47; 3:49) cited by Joseph Lumbard in his essay in the Study Quran, “The Quranic View of Sacred History and Other Religions” (particularly pages 1777-1782). See also some of the books he refers to, such as Quranic Christians (1981) by Jane McAuliffe, former Dean at Georgetown and now President of Bryn Mawr College, and Mahmoud Ayoub’s 1995 essay, “Jesus the Son of God: A Study of the Terms Ibn [offspring] and Walad [son] in the Qur’an and Tafsir [exegesis] Tradition.” John Kaltner’s book, Ishmael Instructs Isaac, remains valuable here too, as is a 2013 essay on Mary and Muhammed in the Journal of Ecumenical Studies by my Harvard doctoral student, Axel Takacs. One can also search through the detailed index of the Study Quran, which lists more than 50 references to Jesus, and many more in the commentaries. (Or try an A lot to read. Indeed, the multitude of such passages is part of the point: confronted with the mysteries of God and of ourselves, and guided by our traditions and Scriptures, there is still much room for study, close and complex reading; there is room for learning, in the face of the monumental ignorance tormenting us today. Violence wins in the short run, Truth in the long run. A humble contribution to this great work of learning is what my posts have been about, including this one. We are not doing theology in any completed sense in this study, but we are making ourselves the literate persons who will be capable of theologies worth reading. I am therefore encouraged by the many comments on my posts, particularly from those who read closely what I write. May the study continue, long after this fifth and last post is forgotten.
Not wanting my always-too-long posts to be even longer, I had to choose one passage about Jesus to write about, and the passage cited above from Sura 5 (The Table Spread) seems beneficial and illuminating (even if I still recommend Sura 19 [Maryam], for which I also gave you audio links in my past post). Sura 5 is difficult, as it incorporates several different Christian and Muslim views of Jesus, and requires cross-reading with many other Quranic passages. The passage falls into three parts. Verses 110-111: God’s declaration to Jesus of what he has done for him, through him, both deeds such as we find in the Gospels, and the account of the miraculous clay birds we find in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. Even the people’s refusal to accept Jesus is in God’s hand, as is the divine protection of Jesus, kept from their hands. This is God’s direct address to Jesus, after addressing a wider group of prophets. Verses 112-115: The heavenly meal that God sends down, possibly after a Ramadan fast, showing to ambivalent disciples the effective intercessory power to Jesus. Verses 116-118: Jesus’ testimony, when questioned by God, that as God already knows; Jesus did not ask his listeners to worship him (and his mother) as deities apart from God, since his message is always, “Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.”
The passage, nine verses, is accompanied by about five pages of small-print commentary, not to be skipped. Regarding verses 110-111, for instance, we learn of the Islamic tradition’s teaching on the Holy Spirit, as either the Archangel Gabriel, or the Spirit arising from God’s command, the “Spirit of the Holy.” Jesus is learned in all the sacred books; the “Book” may be taken as God’s Word, perhaps first of all the uncreated Quran, before its worldly revelation (see also 2:129, 3:3-4, 48ff.); his disciples are “submitters,” true “muslims.” Regarding 112-115: Even when these apostles believe, they also balk, and demand a sign, a meal from Heaven - or, it is because of their faith that they hunger for the meal from Heaven. Jesus can bring down this heavenly food; Jesus is the one to whom God will listen, whose requests God honors. Noting that Christian readers will see here hints of Jesus’ multiplication of the loaves (and, I would add, a distant gesture toward Jesus himself as the Bread from Heaven), the commentary notes that it also prompts in Muslim readers a sense that Jesus and his apostles were sharing a meal after a fast something like Ramadan; or, it is the Christian ‘id, joyful meal from Heaven, perhaps even the Eucharist, a meal of faith, grounded in the piety and obedience of Jesus.
Most of the comments the way presented here appear,want to portray that all religions have accepted JesusChrist, mother Mary and Christianity,except Muslims. As if jews have accepted Jesus Christ as God and Mary as mother of God.But what we find in Talmud ? However, we declare that jesus is the Messiah as chosen by God. His illustrious Mother Mary is also chosen by God.
I'm not religious but why would allah lie making Jesus look crucified, if so why did people like the other gospel claim he came back from the dead, what about the 12 disciples who died for Jesus, did they die for a lie cause god or Jesus himself lied creating Christianity leading billions to hell for giving god partners
According to Islam, Allah made Satan go astray, he is the creator of good and evil, and free will does not exist either 😶, apparently the Abrahamic God does not care much about anyone.
Reza Aslan abandoned Islam form years ago.
Smart man
No he didn´t, he went back to islam...sigh
@@nandinibandhini I retract my comment
@@nandinibandhini ok show me an evidence
@@ahmedamir4240 Evidence of what? He said it himself.
We dont get wrong about jesus because jesua already mention in quran ,
I think it's very unfair to reject the childhood stories of Jesus Christ only because it's not in the new testament, and we know very well what happened to the real followers (Jewish Christians) of Jesus Christ and James and how the enemies destroyed their manuscript.
It's not just because they're not in the New Testament, it's because the source manuscripts are of a much later date (centuries) than the canonical gospels, so they're assumed to be forgeries.
Finally, the great Derek Mythvision and the even greater, Dr. Barter Man!
As muslims we have our perspective about jesus peace be upon him. Bart Ehrman is entitled to his own opinion.
They picked up from christian sources..Not ALLAH!, LOL
Well Jesus said Alaha like the muslims,
that Bart left out
oo
and then he prayed bowing down
hehe
@@artf2651 ok? thats a praying style everyone uses and a language lol arabic christians would call God allah too
@@artf2651 bowing down was a common style of prayer used for thousands of years before Mohammed was born or before Jesus was born. Your connecting the two is meaningless.
@@artf2651 so....that means what? Non of that demonstrates if its true..lol. you got 2 do better
The Quran says “ It was made to appear to them so” it doesn’t say some died instead of him. The question that Dr Herman did not explain, “ How can an illiterate man, living in a desert, who didn’t read or write, did not have direct access or knowledge of fragments of Thomas writings or Greek literature, know these information? Imagine him copying from Greek literature?! Stand to reason. The Quran came as a guardian over the old scriptures not to disprove them , rather to correct the changes made by men. So of course there are similarities since it’s from the same Allah.
The answer to the question is no. It's asking about a guy that has no history. Nothing written down nothing but stories. So you have story about a guy that told stories to 12 other guys that told stories. Then another guy comes around later with a new story that becomes the popular story even though he never met the guy who was dead long before this guys stories were made. Then 400 years later someone else makes a new story. If you were a judge and had to decide this in court you know the answer. Any other answer is belief in fairy tales.
You're a sharp intellect /s
Finally someone using the brain.
For someone in your line of work ought to read the Quran at least that’s what reasonable people do.
This has been the single most controversial subject in the world. The Quran's miraculous mathematical code has now provided the final answer to this topic: (the number 19 is God's stamp)
Jesus' soul was raised, i.e., he was put to death prior to the arrest and crucifixion of his body. Thus, his persecutors arrested, tortured, and crucified an empty body - Jesus was already gone to the world of souls (3:55, 4:157).
[Quran 3:54] They plotted and schemed, but so did God, and God is the best schemer.
[Quran 3:55] Thus, God said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.
[Quran 4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.
Mercifully, God has given our generation a living example of a person whose soul departed this world, but his body continued to live for 19 months. On November 25, 1984, doctors at the Humana Hospital of Louisville, Kentucky removed the diseased heart of Mr. William Schroeder and replaced it with a plastic and metal pump (THE NEW YORK TIMES, Monday, November 26, 1984).
On the 19th day after this historic operation - Thursday, December 13, 1984 - Mr. Schroeder, the soul, the real person, departed this world. Mr. Schroeder died. But his body continued to function with the artificial heart implanted in his body. The world was told that he "probably suffered a stroke" (THE NEW YORK TIMES, December 14, 1984).
Significantly, only one day before Mr. Schroeder's departure, he talked with President Ronald Reagan on national TV, and demanded that the Social Security Administration send his overdue check. He was perfectly alert. From the moment "he suffered a stroke," he did not recognize the day or time, nor his family members. In fact, Mr.Schroeder was no longer in this world.
The Gospels state clearly that the arrested body of Jesus was oblivious to the events surrounding it:
The chief priests, meanwhile, brought many accusations against Jesus. Pilate interrogated him again: "Surely you have some answer? See how many accusations they are leveling against you." But greatly to Pilate's surprise, Jesus made no further response.
[ Mark 15:3-5 ]
Herod was extremely pleased to see Jesus. From the reports about him he had wanted for a long time to see him, and he was hoping to see him work some miracles. He questioned Jesus at considerable length, but Jesus made no response. The chief priests and scribes were at hand to accuse him vehemently. Herod and his guards then treated him with contempt and insult.
[ Luke 23:8-11 ]
The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshly part.
[Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3, 81] from THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY (Harper & Row, 1977, James M.Robinson, ed, Page 339).
The facts that
Mr. Schroeder's soul departed on the 19th day after the operation, and
his body survived for 19 months, are uncanny reminders that God wanted the world to know the parallel between Schroeder's situation, and the proven account of Jesus' departure prior to the arrest, torture, and crucifixion of his soulless body.
This is appendix 22 of Quran: the Final Testament by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, God's Messenger of the Covenant
Peace.
Why read lies, when you can communicate directly with the Truth and receive God's Light, the Spirit of Truth, that leads men into all truths and opens their eyes to all deceit and lies.
They dont even read their own books and we as muslims know the bible better than themselfs..
@@arsenalfc7596 I find the same with Muslims and the Quran. For example God says that the Shahada is "There is no god but God". 3:18 Yet Muslims add a second Shahada with Muhammad. This is blatant idolatry.
Example number 2, God clearly defines the four steps for wudu. Yet, Muslims typically have eight steps as if they know better than God.
[7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
Example number 3. God states: [72:18] The places of worship belong to God; do not call on anyone else beside God. Yet, we have Muslims who mention Abraham and Muhammad along side with God in the SALAT prayer of all places. Also, you'll here Muhammad's name in the ATHAN. This is shirk in it's most basic form and yet Muslims pollute their worship proudly. Muslims do not study the Quran and are polluted with the hadith and teachings of scholars, who are not authorized by God. This is Satan's famous trick. You see it with the Christians and Jews, why do you think Satan could not do it with the Muslims?
Be a submitter to God alone. Forget the human component. They were the mailmen for God's message. It is the message that matters.
Peace.
@@jefftaylor19 your whole arguments are funny
syahada has muhammad pbuh thx to christian ppl and judaism who didnt believe him and so in order to become islam you need to accept him by saying these words (despite that every prophet is the same, theres no disctinction between them)
sec we learn wudu by muhammad pbuh
the way and all, like u said wash 4 parts of the body(face, hair, both legs and both arms) is a must
meanwhile the others (ears, mouth etc) we called as sunnah, its not compulsory
third mentioning muhammad pbuh and abraham pbuh in sholat is not equivalent to as worshipping but respecting them
r u on drugs perhaps?
Maybe Dr Ehrman can explain how prophet Mogammad who was illiterate that could not read or write nor meet any Christians before the revelation of the Quran could have known such alot about Jesus (peace be upon him). Where did He, Mogammad ( Peace be upon him ) got this information about Jesus ( Peace be upon him) ? If Mogammad ( Peace be upon him ) were the author of the Quran then it would be strange that Jesus ( peace be upon him ) are mentioned almost 100% more than Mogammad ( Peace be upon him ) in the Quran. So the only conclusion that we can come to is that only the creator of Jesus ( peace be upon him ) revealed all the detail of Him ( Peace be upon him) to Mogammad ( Peace be upon him).
How many times can you type peace be upon him?
Waraqah Ibn Nawfal was the paternal first cousin of Khadija, and he was a Christian convert who used to write the Gospels in Arabic. When Muhammad got the first revelation, Waraqah told him he was a prophet. Waraqah died shortly after and the revelation was paused for a while.
All of this information can be found in Sahih hadiths from Al Bukhari.
Kindly correct Muhammad peace be upon him plz.
Thank you.
Guess what ! He was not illiterate! Read ur hadiths
It's Muhammad not mogammad
YAHSHUA, the one you call Jesus, is believed by Gnostics not to have died on the Cross, and others believe that Barabbas actually died in YAHSHUA's place.
Enjoyable to listen to. I like very much Bart Ehrman's enlightened views in search of the truth. I do disagree on his perception that the Quraan picks up info about Christianity on Jesus. If Quraan was the everlasting uncorrupted word of God as muslims believe, then it should carry the original version of all those historic events, period.
God does not change his words and teachings from religion to religion, so if some texts in the Qur’an coincide with other books, this does not mean that they are misquoted, but the source is one.
Please tell everyone that your comments are just your personal opinion and not the leader of the Islamic religion so as not to mislead those looking for the truth.
﴿ قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ﴾
[ البقرة: 136]
سورة : البقرة - Al-Baqarah - الجزء : ( 1 ) - الصفحة: ( 21 )
﴿ Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)." ﴾
@Jesus Or Muhammadmy Qur’an does not concern him who married such-and-such a year, or who had sex with his daughter and begot her by whom
Therefore, I agree with you that there are many things that are not mentioned in my Qur’an because they are things that have been distorted and that God did not consider until they are mentioned in my Qur’an.
My Qur’an says that God sent prophets to all nations on earth, and he did not mention the stories of all these prophets, and he did not make prophets exclusively for the Children of Israel, because all people with God are equal, so the Hebrews, according to me, are not a basis for measurement at all.
Had the names of these Hebrew prophets not been mentioned in the Qur’an, I would not have believed in them at all
Because I did not see a sea splitting or dead people coming back to life, but I have the Qur’an, I advise you to read it
@Jesus Or Muhammad you wrote Torah says Quran is false Gospel says Quran is false Do you think that Muslims can deceive them like your followers tell them the Torah says and the Bible says and they believe you and they did not read it not even you
I dare you to come up with words from the Torah or the Bible that originally spoke about the Qur’an
I dare you to come up with words from the Torah or the Bible that God did not send prophets except to the Children of Israel only
Provided that it be clear speech, like what is in the Qur’an, and not a set of incantations and riddles, like the ones with which you deceive people and explain them as you wish.
And do not try to be proud of what does not belong to you at all. We in the Middle East have more Hebrew blood than you and the fake fabricated modern Israeli, and we are not proud of that.
@Jesus Or Muhammad I think that is a valid point which needs enlarging upon. Islams only “prophet” is Mohammad. Islam imposes itself into the historical account of the Bible.
The way Muslims try to find Mohammad in the Bible as an example.
The Quran is obviously insufficient so the need to find other sources to gain some sort of basis for Islam is needed.
@@deepdemairy2846 that person name Jesus or Muhammad is in everyone’s comments doing the same thing spewing an agenda keep seeking the truth.
Do the Muslims have the correct version of anything?
The Gnostics nailed it, no pun intended. Know thyself.
Regarding The Crucifixion and Islam
th-cam.com/video/09-JthSnyic/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/jyaXKhK4Si4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/X5k0PshFHEo/w-d-xo.html
@Jesus Or Muhammad the only thing muslims qoute Bart in is the corruption of the Bible when it's being presented as Gods word .
Why do you feel you have to lie to make a point against Muslims ?
@Jesus Or Muhammad do you agree the Bible is corrupted according to Bart ?
@Jesus Or Muhammad th-cam.com/video/7O0KSNFPNrc/w-d-xo.html
@Jesus Or Muhammad yes they do and historically you have very little on the life of Jesus . Crucifixion was the best attested fact from the little you have and the Qur'an agrees that people thought he was.
The Bible unfortunately is not reliable and cannot be the word of God.
You can disagree ofcouse .
John 14:6 Jesus said to him I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
from this alone, i understand that Jesus is a prophet (and not god himself as many claims to be). İt doesnt cheapen or lessen his importance
Horus said exactly the same 3000 years BCE! How about that?
@Bhi fee According to the islamic tradition Jesus is not rasullullah. Rasullullah is Muhammed. Anyways, its true that only god can bring salvation. But the islamic view states that got has sent several prophets in the past like Moses, David, Jesus, Abraham, Muhammed among many others to bring their communities into salvation
@Bhi fee his tomb is known and can still be visited to this very day. The burial places of many of his companions as well as a few family members are known as well. So he is very much a real person.
@Bhi fee Greek historian Diodorus Siculus mentions about the city (well the shrine located in it to be more exact) in his works. 1'st century bc.
Ptolemy also mentioned the city in the 2nd century as Macoraba . So... its clearly from before the 7th century.
So, you ask a man who denies Christ if the Muslim interpretation is more accurate? What answer were you expecting to get?
And when I (Allâh) revealed to Al-Hawâriyyûn (the disciples) [of ‘Îsâ (Jesus)] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims." Al Quran Chapter 5 verse 111
- translation by Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan
You are saying Jesus was a Muslim?
Why then did Jesus say "I will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"?
Also Jesus drank wine.
@@TruthSeekerAll
Yes, Jesus drank wine. What is your problem with that?
@@itiswritten9423 only an alcoholic would say such a thing 🤮🤢
@@haj2961 so would he have turned water into wine, at a marriage ceremony 🍾 without tasting it?
Nice conversation. Thanks Derek and Bart Ehrman
_It's true and admittedly bart is an expert and scholar of New Testament he spent more than 30 years studying the NT scripture, but he is not a scholar of the quran in fact he does not understand the language of Quran or Arabic, for that he also needs 30 years to study about the quran and arabic language to qualify to comment fairly_
On thing I respect about Bart Erhman is that even though he left Christianity after discovering that the Bible was corrupt he is still loyal to his historical Christian belongings and too afraid to open the Quran and actually study it and do a scriptural criticism on it . He is just giving opinions from hearsay’s he is never opened the actual Quran clearly .
Isnt "Ehrman" a Jewish name? Now, please, tell us what Jews think of Jesus.
Bart did an interview with the Apostate prophets (ex Muslim ) on TH-cam and Muslims cut and edited the footage to make it look like he supported Islamic opinions . B
In my opinion Bart needs to make it very clear that their perception of Jesus is not in line with history
th-cam.com/video/Ryn8H9Z8lUk/w-d-xo.html
Enjoy it again
@Jesus Or Muhammad And Muslims dont need any explanation from christians like you about who the actual Jesus was and who God really is and about which scripture is revelation....... keep your polytheistic trinity and your blood sacrifice to yourself
Also what God chose to reveal in the Quran about Jesus and about his Blessed Mother Mary is more than enough for us!!
@Jesus Or Muhammad And i know you wanna believe in a false Apostle called Paul who never met Jesus and made up theology on his own , that is the definition of a false apostle who coorupted the message of jesus. The Christian faith was corrupted after Jesus went away. Jesus never claimed to be God and never taught about blood sacrifice and blood atonement. All the Gospels are forgeries and corrupted scriptures. Anyway, keep believing in your nonsense and live in your delusion and falsehood.
@Jesus Or Muhammad contradiction after contradiction oops...
I think Bart Ehrman should stick to talking about where he has qualifications. He is seriously embarrassing himself with some ignorant things he has said today. Muslims copied the scriptures of the earlier Christians??? Big joke😂😂
I respect Bart, but definitely he does not have proper knowledge with wisdom ( Hidayah), that is the reason he is reluctant to accept Religion at all, though he always speak about Religion.
If he does have proper knowledge and analogy about God Almighty, and Religion, he should know there is only One Creator, and does he think that One Creator of Heavens and Earth will give many Religions to His creation to fight ?
Of course NOT.
Since there is One God, there is One Religion, and all Holy Messengers, and Prophets came with same basic Message, and Religion, therefore definitely Scriptures will will give same common ingredients, for which Mr Bart is saying, Muslims copied from previous Scriptures.
I hope if Mart is sincere and serious about Religion, since his entire life is around Religion, and same time he is reluctant to accept it, he will one day accept Truth, i.e. Islam.
I pray for him, and all of us, may Allah (swt) give us all wisdom, and keep on path, who enjoy blessings of our Creator, Aameen.
Remember me in your prayers brother Taofeeq, Jazak Allah Khairun.
Actually he's not very ignorant. It is very logical to think that. Islam borrowed a lot of stories from Christians and Jews. If you can't see that, then you are very delusional.
He is a professional historian of early Christianity - he has the highest qualifications. Why can't you be consistent and accept the facts? You people are hypocrites who love quoting Bart when his conclusions go against Christianity but you complete undermine him and reject his conclusions when they go against Islaam. Islaam = hypocrisy
@@demitrykhandree1774 Highest qualifications in Christianity not in Islam😂😂. When Ben Carson talks about the brain, I will shut up and listen but when he talks about the skin I will graciously pass because he is clearly not a skin specialist. This should be basic knowledge, don't embarrass yourself.
Yes they did. See publications such as "syriac millieu" by Joseph witztum and quran and bible by gs Reynolds. And how do YOU explain the similarities between the apocryphal sources and the quran ?
The Quran acknowledges that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not speak on his own whims or desires, but rather conveyed the message that was revealed to him by Allah (God). Here is a verse that highlights this principle:
"Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed." (Quran 53:3-4)
This verse from Surah Al-Najm (Chapter 53) affirms that the words spoken by the Prophet Muhammad were not based on his personal desires or inclinations. Instead, he received divine revelation that was communicated to him by Allah. The Prophet Muhammad's role was to convey the message faithfully, without adding or subtracting from it.
"Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve." (Quran 2:62)
This verse emphasizes that belief in Allah, the Last Day, and righteous conduct are the key factors for earning reward and protection from fear and grief. It acknowledges that individuals from various religious backgrounds, including Jews and Christians, who hold these beliefs and demonstrate righteousness, will find acceptance with Allah
Dr. Bart D. Ehrman proved again that he is only an expert of The Bible, a great one actually. Because it is not new to claim that the stories about Jesus in the Qur'an are from the Bible. They have been claimed for centuries from the orientalists, and without any historical proof, as Ehrman does. Again, Islamic studies still being a big challenge for the Non Muslim Western scholars
@Jesus Or Muhammad Nice speach! As u said "Arabic book", at least we have it. ln which language is yours, mate? Did u get the point? Beside, Dr. Ehrman has made it clear that he is not a believer.
There is plenty of proof.
I love how subtly insulting Dr Bart is lol
Its not subtle.
Al-Qur'an as a source of teachings is still more perfect than the best morals of Muslims, on the other hand the best morals of Christians are still better than the source of their teachings (the Bible), ... that means people are not able to create their own literary works like the Qur'an. a book with its linguistic formulas and can be memorized by millions of people, young and old, disabled and normal, male and female, ... but People will easily create teaching literature more credible and accurate than the Bible, and make assumptions and conjectures about divinity freely, on the basis of "what is important to believe"
No, muslims are mostly much better than the quran. The quran is quite horrible.
Most muslims have morales way better than the quran and hadees , ur one of them ..
The Quran includes narratives similar to those found in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, a text which is not part of the canonical Bible 🤣. This overlap suggests that the Quran may be affirming truths found in non-canonical sources, highlighting its role as a divine scripture meant to clarify and validate true events and teachings. According to this perspective, the Quran serves as a guide to discerning truth, distinguishing between authentic divine messages and other religious texts and interpretations.
Derek has become such a pro!
I saw the webinar it was awesome 👏🏾 I found this video by trying to link the story of Mary in the infancy gospel to the book of Mary in the Quran!!
@Jesus Or Muhammad s many errors in your comment it’s unbelievable that you took your time to write gibberish
@Jesus Or Muhammad ok so let’s say a chapter if it makes your day but to actually go in at a small technical “error” it’s a waste of time we could say it’s a biography to be honest but because I said book instead of “chapter” you dismiss to point of my comment. I’m guessing since your posturing and so adamant that you have read the Quran and the Bible? Which isn’t even the point of my comment, I see a burning desire to correct and intimidate with knowledge that you must have a narcissistic character come on I hope you saw the webinar because I don’t see why you would even click on this video and less on my comment and dismiss all I said.
@Jesus Or Muhammad have you read Surat Mariam in the coran before you made your judgement ?
@Jesus Or Muhammad oh I get it now you got offended when I said book instead of chapter Hmmm well If you didn’t know Muslims believe in the gospel from the Bible, Jesus virgin birth, his miracles also Jesus is also mention in the Quran more than Muhammad can so what I see is a person that believes the Bible is the inherent word of God. If you say there’s propaganda in the Quran also say there’s propaganda in the Bible.
@@mofassy no I said trying to link the stories but there some similarities
The Infancy gospel of Thomas and its copycat story in the Koran makes Jesus look like a type of Disney's Fantasia's "Sorcerer's Apprentice" if you are familiar with the Micky Mouse portrayal of this character in that Walt Disney classic.Sort of cheapens the whole character of Jesus.
Regarding The Crucifixion and Islam
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@Jesus Or Muhammad There is a pattern with the New Testament that Christians do not know about and that is about new testament forgeries and deliberately misquoting jesus
WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT, Bart Ehrman
th-cam.com/video/dZp6C110s4Q/w-d-xo.html
The Historical Jesus with Dr Dale Martin
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Forged | Bart Ehrman | Talks at Google
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Misquoting Jesus in the Bible - Professor Bart D. Ehrman
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The stories of Jesus in Islam were taken from the infancy gospels not the orginal one.
Now it's time for Muslims to stop debating with Christians whether Jesus is God or not because it is not going to help Islam.
Yes
Jesus don't need to carry sword
Jesus as a prophet is a failed concept, and the fact that Allah faked his death on the cross doesn't make sense. It means that Allah deceived us into believing that Jesus was crucified(and therefore risen) knowing that it would create Christianity. So Allah who is wise and all knowing made the mistake of confusing people about Jesus's death so that the witnesses of his death believed in his death and made his sacrifice on the cross the angular stone of Christianity. So Allah created Christianity by deceiving the witnesses of the last moments of Jesus.
According to Quran, not only Jesus failed to promote the unicity of God, in fact he misleaded people with his ambiguous words and his divine powers(the power to forgive sins for example) so that people believed he and God were one and that he was his son. Before Jesus people believed in the unique God but after him they believed in Trinity. So Allah who hates above all associationnism, sent us a prophet knowing that this prophet would be severly misunderstood so that his mission would end with the opposite of the desired effect, i.e. the worshipping of this prophet as God himself. Allah is all knowing, so he knew that Jesus would fail and that his failure would create christianity, so why he who forgives everything except associationism, knowingly created Christianity(shirk) and made it the first world's religion?
Why did God create Eve knowing that she would sin and bring death into the world? Why did God create Cain knowing that he would murder Abel and bring a curse on the Earth? IMO, God allows freedom of choice because it the only way to achieve Heaven on Earth. We should expect that Man will fail greatly as he learns the greatest Truth.
@@DanielHuman1996 I understand that God creates flawed humans because the great law of the universe is the Law of Evolution so that everything imperfect is on the road to perfection or greater expression of itself(that is the essence of life wich is the force that always pushes forward).
What i don't understand is the logic behind the islamic view of Jesus as a prophet instead of son of god. They claim that Jesus is only a prophet but if that is true then Allah is the less clairvoyant or the worst communicator ever since all that this prophet produced is the belief in the trinity and therefore associationism, which the very jealous god of Islam abhors the most.
@@Maitatron baseless.. no offence.
You are missing the point. We were given the free will to choose our own religion. It is not God’s fault neither God’s intervention in creating christianity a major religion.
If you actually do your research you will come across the fact that no other prophet before Jesus claimed to be divine neither did anyone claimed that god had a son. If so then the Old Testament would have said so.
Abraham, Moses and all other prophets (peace be upon them) has taught strict monotheism whereas christianity completely deviates from monotheism.
I understand your point but you have to agree that the preservation of the New Testament is problematic. No one knows the true identity of the scholars who wrote the four canonical gospels. So how are you so sure that the New Testament indeed contains the exact teachings of jesus?
P.S- Islam never claims that god deceived people to avoid the crucifixion of jesus. It says that god saved jesus from crucifixion and he shall return when the false messiah arrives.
What ever happened historically no one is sure 100% . Quran says there is one God.
148. Those who associated with Allah will say, "If Allah had willed, we would not have associated [anything] and neither would our fathers, nor would we have prohibited anything." Likewise did those before deny until they tasted Our punishment. Say, "Do you have any knowledge that you can produce for us? You follow not except assumption, and you are not but falsifying."
149. Say, "With Allah is the far-reaching argument. If He had willed, He would have guided you all."
It’s not necessary that Bart‘a views are right, at the end of the day he is just a normal man.
Stunning Accuracy of Quranic History
crucifixion of Jesus vs. crucifixion of isa
court session is opened.
judge: who are you?
Jesus: Son of God.: i am the beginning and end
isa: son of maryam; al lah knows the best, i was not there, someone looks like me was on the cross.
judge: why you are crucified?
Jesus: i am truth, way, the lamb of God.
isa son of maryam: al lah knows best
judge: where you are crucified?
Jesus: Son of God.: cavary outside of jerusalem.
isa: son of maryam: al lah knows the best .
judge: when do you crucified?
Jesus: Son of God.: AD 33 friday on passover 9am to 3pm
isa: son of maryam; al lah knows the best
judge: why you are crucifixied?
Jesus: Son of God.: i am and father is one
isa: son of maryam; al lah knows the best
judge: how you are crucifixied?
Jesus: Son of God.: on the cross
isa: son of maryam:al lah knows the best
judge: who are the witness of your crucifixion?
Jesus: Son of God.: mother, daughters of jerusalem, the chief priests, disciples, roman soldiers. jews.
isa: son of maryam: al lah knows the best
judge: how long do you stay after the resurrection and before the ascension?
Jesus: Son of God.: 40days
isa: son of maryam: al lah knows the best
judge: what are the last words before the ascension?
Jesus: Son of God.:It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
isa: son of maryam:a l lah knows the best, i do not remember it was more than 600 years ago.
judge: ladies and gentlemen you are the judge. make your verdict, thanks
This has been the single most controversial subject in the world. The Quran's miraculous mathematical code has now provided the final answer to this topic: (the number 19 is God's stamp)
Jesus' soul was raised, i.e., he was put to death prior to the arrest and crucifixion of his body. Thus, his persecutors arrested, tortured, and crucified an empty body - Jesus was already gone to the world of souls (3:55, 4:157).
[Quran 3:54] They plotted and schemed, but so did God, and God is the best schemer.
[Quran 3:55] Thus, God said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.
[Quran 4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.
Mercifully, God has given our generation a living example of a person whose soul departed this world, but his body continued to live for 19 months. On November 25, 1984, doctors at the Humana Hospital of Louisville, Kentucky removed the diseased heart of Mr. William Schroeder and replaced it with a plastic and metal pump (THE NEW YORK TIMES, Monday, November 26, 1984).
On the 19th day after this historic operation - Thursday, December 13, 1984 - Mr. Schroeder, the soul, the real person, departed this world. Mr. Schroeder died. But his body continued to function with the artificial heart implanted in his body. The world was told that he "probably suffered a stroke" (THE NEW YORK TIMES, December 14, 1984).
Significantly, only one day before Mr. Schroeder's departure, he talked with President Ronald Reagan on national TV, and demanded that the Social Security Administration send his overdue check. He was perfectly alert. From the moment "he suffered a stroke," he did not recognize the day or time, nor his family members. In fact, Mr.Schroeder was no longer in this world.
The Gospels state clearly that the arrested body of Jesus was oblivious to the events surrounding it:
The chief priests, meanwhile, brought many accusations against Jesus. Pilate interrogated him again: "Surely you have some answer? See how many accusations they are leveling against you." But greatly to Pilate's surprise, Jesus made no further response.
[ Mark 15:3-5 ]
Herod was extremely pleased to see Jesus. From the reports about him he had wanted for a long time to see him, and he was hoping to see him work some miracles. He questioned Jesus at considerable length, but Jesus made no response. The chief priests and scribes were at hand to accuse him vehemently. Herod and his guards then treated him with contempt and insult.
[ Luke 23:8-11 ]
The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshly part.
[Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3, 81] from THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY (Harper & Row, 1977, James M.Robinson, ed, Page 339).
The facts that
Mr. Schroeder's soul departed on the 19th day after the operation, and
his body survived for 19 months, are uncanny reminders that God wanted the world to know the parallel between Schroeder's situation, and the proven account of Jesus' departure prior to the arrest, torture, and crucifixion of his soulless body.
This is appendix 22 of Quran: the Final Testament by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, God's Messenger of the Covenant
Peace.
So is everyone who says the Qur'an is right.
Dr Bart need to understand why god allows suffering first then he can talk on religion and prophets. A talk with no belief is just sounds, no matter who you are... It is just sad but true
In my experience it's the other way around
But could you maybe tell us why God allows suffering?
Because humans create suffering. We make the decisions and commit to them. We must take the onus for what we do. Agnostic by the by. Humans are responsible for everything that happens. Its humans that allow suffering and misery as we create it. So we need to blame ourselves and no one else. If we were better and more respectable to each other it would ease suffering.
@@miscalotastuff733 I agree that humans cause suffering, but there's plenty of suffering that humans are not responsible for, and why does God allow that?
Agnostic what, theist or atheist?
@@hiasirimias2423 agnostics are theists. Athiests are without biblical or religious belief. I still think all problems stem from humans.
In the Quran it says 2 things:
- they boasted that they killed him
- it only appeared to them as if
Knowing that the pilates is only allowed to leave a city if the crucified is certified dead and adding the accounts that he wasnt in his tomb plus the fact he ate a fish when he met the apostels makes it seem as if the Quranic version is plausible
Lol this man have -99% knowledge about Islam
Always great to see Dr. Barr
Bart*
Bart
War-lord military prophet?! This is a widely misinformed statement. Please educate yourself
It's true , how muhammad created biggest empire by war
@@hm4084
Revelation is nonsensical fan fiction, out of character with the Pauline epistles or the cherry picked 4 gospels.
The problem with Bartt Erhman he is still attached in christian belief.But never see that those accusation about Quran was copied from those heretical influence or gnostic bible is being bias.Actualy he said it was base from other christian story even it is a myth.
But have you all ever consider .That the bible claim as authoritative,by claim orthodox church ,who just pick codices or bible fitted to their triion dogma, can be a heretical from other early christian sources ,which is not trinitarianism..
Let me give you an example.Why the Ebionites was branded by the church fathers as hereticals? Because of their views that Jesus was an ordinary man and the fulfilment of Deut. 18:18?
But biblicaly in the 4 canon Jesus was mentioned more often as the son of man and a prophet???
What about the many christian writings that was accused of being gnosticism or hereticals.
Like the book of Thomas and Barnabas.A several writings under the name of John epistle.
Thomas
Mark
Peter are they not part of the disciples who accquire the teaching of Jesus?
Have you not consider why in many discovered of Johns epistle, are being accuse as heretias or gnostic bible.And only one book of John is being part of the canon?
WHICH IS VERY OBVIOUS THAT THE CHURCH FATHERS OR THE CLAIM ORTHODOX CHURCH FORCEFULLY INSERTED THE DIVINITY OF JESUS ,THAT YOU MAY NEVER FIND IN ALL SYNOPTIC GOSPELS.
That is something bias and unreal when mostly christian are accusing that Quran was copied to those heretical influence.Not knowing the bible itsel of the clalm orthodox church in many passage are supporting those accused hereticals codices.
Let me give some of their belief about historical Jesus.
Jesus is a prophet
Jesus is a man.
It all can be seen in the bible with fully understanding of biblical character that Jesus strongly affirmed.
Let me give you some.
Here is the strong evidence that Jesus cam able to decieve the eyes of all the people during his ministry to escape the crucifiction, same what he did in the alledged ressurection.
And his disciples knew that he is a prophet not God that are the stand of the trinitarian..
Cleopas:
Luke 24:18-19 (KJV) And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
Bible is very clear supporting those accused as hereticals..
of course Quran didn't talk a lot about Jesus, this will make it a Gospel.
we Muslims have all the respect to prophet Jesus but we don"t believe he's divine or crossified
Islamic Jesus pbuh was a Muslim, a Mighty Prophet, Highly Revered Messenger and the Promised Messiah of God (Allah). This Great Prophet was sent ONLY to the "Lost Sheep of the House of Israel" and no one else. He brought the Gospel or Good News of the coming of the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter as the Last and Final Messenger unto all mankind, as was also prophesied in the Torah - Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah SAS.
Jesus pbuh was a Jew
All prophets pbut of Allah swt are universal
@@theguyver4934 So how come Jews rejected him? Isn't it bizarre that non-Jews to whom he did not come claimed him? Hallelujah! Like all other Prophets, he was a Muslim, but was sent ONLY to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
@@dr.mobarakali255 - The Quran says that all prophets pbut and all books of Allah swt are universal
49.95? For what? This guy was supposedly a distinguished scholar and devout Christian for a number of years and one day later on in life decides to become an atheist. His reasons for finally discarding Christianity were apparent and obvious when he was Christian. Why the ditching of Christianity then? Perhaps he gets more famous, more followers and becomes more interesting and able to charge for his services. Something seems disingenuous……
I'm not a believer, but agree the dude is a bit of a hustler.
A man living 6 centuries after Jesus knows him better than Jesus's apostle ?
No Muhammad is illiterate, he doesn't know, Allah knows and reveals thru an illiterate, the revelations themselves, the Quran, is the miracle.
@@jimmybeam1550prove your point, it's just claims made by moslems, there is no Qur'an complete Qur'an from 7 century, so it's not possible to know if these is same Qur'an, all these stories about Muhmad was later inventions during abssaid era
"He [‘Îsâ (Jesus)] said: "Verily I am a slave of Allâh, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; Al Quran Chapter 19 verse 30. - Translation by Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan
We muslims believe that the Bible is not the same holy scripture revealed to Prophet Jesus ( peace be upon him) which was called the Injeel. In the Bible does not have a reference of the original text in Aramaic which was Prophet Jesus's language. There are continuity issues, copiers' errors issues, unknown authors, forgeries which regards to the Bible. The Quran was revealed as a way to correct these mistakes and guide humans in general. Moreover Prophet Jesus ( peace be upon him) was sent as a messenger to the Jewish faith - he was not teaching them anything new. If the "Bible" was not corrupted or changed then the old testatemant and old testatement should be the same - but there are glaring differences in theology , plus rabbis do not agree with the old testatement that christians / catholics have since some verses have been wrongly translated , or changed etc.
If we are going to discuss the contents of the bible we need to consider how it was compiled and that it should not have errors and contradictions. That is my concern. When i am learning something about a holy scripture - i need to be able to refer to the original text in its original language. I can do this for the quran. But not for the bible. You can read up books by Dr Jerald Dirks, Dr Dale Martin, Dr John Barton and Bart Erhman
Thanks for asking
@Jesus Or Muhammad if you truly believe your christianity is correct and the bible has not been corrupted why feel so defensive and frightened? Notice you attack via insults whereas i am polite. Your choice of words reflect the character of your religion. Plus you still did not address the facts regarding how the bible is compiled & its lack of preservation, errors and forgeries.
@Jesus Or Muhammad the bible was not the holy scripture revealed by Allah to Prophet Jesus peacebbe upon him. The various compiled versions of the bible were written by humans who change whatever Prophet Jesus shared to his disciples. Anyway its clear you lacked info about the errors in the bible, how it was not preserved properly and its contradictions. If you choose to follow a book with a lack of preservation & errors that is your choice. The bible is not the work of Allah but the work of humans ( who make mistakes) .Let us leave this matter to God who created you, me , Prophet Jesus( peace be upon him) and all the other Prophets ( peace be upon them) . God knows Best compared to all humans even you and me even prophet Jesus ( peace be upon him) who could not do anything accept by the Will of the Creator ( God).
How can there be a "correct" version for a man covered in mythology!
Jesus or Isa (As) was a real person!
@@tests2816 That means nothing! The historical Jesus is a mystery!
agree. silly.
The Quranic version makes the most sense.
To think that the Creator would allow his holy Prophet Issa (Jesus) (PBUH) to be humiliated and tortured at the hands of heathens and greedy corrupt Jews, to be crucified as absolutely ridiculous. Every person will pay for their own sins.
If God knew people would turn Jesus into a God then why did he even send Jesus into the world in the first place or even make people think he was on the cross
@@A-man-in-the-box Why God sends prophets is due to man's corruption. The Jews became corrupt and sinful and thus Jesus (PBUH) was sent. A salvation to mankind at that time. The corrupt Jews tried their best to have him killed. They will try to kill him again when he returns.
@@A-man-in-the-box Don't put the onus on God. People are corrupt as corrupt as today's politician even more. Stop asking why did God do this or that, our logic cannot be applied to that of the Creator.
Jesus was a man, with miracles for the period of time he came in. Other prophets had different miracles for their times and peoples that were sent to. The bible has been corrupted and biblical scholars say they are corrupted. Search for the truth.
@@silwan6784 then God is simply illogical to purposely mislead people then to punish them for eternity with fire… that’s evil not good that’s a man made God not the real God
@@A-man-in-the-box People have choices to make. Do your best to make the right choices. Choose the correct path and do not allow the glitter to take you from the path. Surround yourself with good people.
One day you will feel at ease and peace.
Good Luck on your journey.