I was tempted to put more into this video, but unfortunately I was ill for most of last week, so it's not as "full" of sources as it normally would be. That's why I said I'll do some follow-up videos on this topic in the future. Let me know what you think about all this. It's honestly a new concept to me too - I had never thought to see the Third Reich in this way before.
Ever since I criticized YT for allowing propaganda like "the dumbest story ever told" etc. my comments always get buried. Anyway, pls make a video about the Reichstag Fire some day.
Ever heard of the world of Kreig or the Cult of Sacrifice? Otherwise. I can't help but notice more similarities with other Socialist ideologies. Just different interpretations to the same end.
@@calumdeighton If you go there it actually gets really deep - and dark and it can't be discussed here. Anyway, I can drop some hints. You know about the Thule Society and the dark and occult obsessions of many prominent National Socialists. Well, "plain" socialism basically also has a "Thule Society", it's just not called that, but essentially it's the same with the same type of symbolism. Ever wondered why all these socialist groups use the symbols they use? Well, they actually all represent the same planetary deity and are deeply Pagan. And as "neo-pagans" if you will they of course also have certain rituals that require certain sacrifices and sometimes they of course also have big rituals that require big sacrifices...
BJ was getting BJs from his next wife while almost certainly on coke. The whole of Westminster is a drugs den. Let's see in 10 years of excess deaths. All around the world. From what I am hearing it will be in next generation.
You can see this depicted over and over again in the film Downfall. All those who commit suicide at the end aren't doing so to avoid punishment, but because they genuinely believed that there was no reason for continued existence if the Reich were to perish. They saw the end of the Reich as the end of history, and they didn't want to experience what world would exist past it. They really saw themselves as the last Elf on a hill surrounded by a sea of Orcs.
That explains why the fanatics kept fighting, why live in a world when you'll be ruled by alleged subhumans? National Socialism was a death or glory ideology.
A quote I remember from Hitler gave me a clue as to why they continued to fight. Addressing Germany's mounting casualties as the war turned against them he said: "What is life? The individual must die anyway. Life is the nation." Chilling when you think about it's logical conclusion. Thanks Tik
My Great Grandfather fought on the Eastern Front. The main reason that the regular soldiers continued to fight instead of just surrendering was to buy time for the civilians, especially if your own family was among them, to flee from the Red Army. Those who were caught were in many cases simply murdered. Quite a few relatives of mine died that way.
Did the Russians send them to be gassed to death at concentration camps? Or did the Russian death squads have them dig their own graves before shooting them?
And there was always that counterbalance of the threat of being killed by your own gestapo, sandwiching you with the tender mercies of surrender to the Red Army gives very little opportunity but to stand and fight.
@@theholyinquisition389 I wouldn't expect anything else. When waging war, after pillaging your enemy's land, the key is to win, so he cannot return the favour. Germany failed, and so paid the price.
When I wrote my final paper in university I looked at "reason for fighting in the war" of German soldiers in WW1 and WW2. And I agree with you: in countless letters home soldiers wrote about the necessity to continue fighting/struggling as not doing so would automatically lead to toal and utter destruction of Germany. As you said this is the glue that kept things together. And it glued all these other points together. One interesting other point I'd like to make here: the believe in destiny. Frederick II., King of Prussia during the 7-years war, was on the brink of defeat when the Russian Tzarina died and her son made peace with Prussia, being a great admirer of Frederick. The death of her was often called "the wonder of the House of Brandenburg". It had become somewhat of a national myth in Germany. The idea that destiny would once again come to safe Germany (Prussia = Germany, another myth) was compelling especially knowing that president Roosevelt was very ill. In fact when he died Goebbels told Hitler "The Tzarina just died!"...
And they were right...Just remember the Morgenthau Plan he devised in 1944 for the post-war Germany...total destruction of the German industry, reducing it to a small farm country with most of its 1939 territories annexed by its neighboring countries. More than enough to make every German citizen fight to the last bullet.
@@jedbex7070 - Yes, and I see the same everywhere...Just look at the USA...look at the UK...look at France...at Russia....the whole world is in chaos and turmoil ! It's the sign of our times. The human society is in a process of violent change for the better. Things will improve drastically in no more than 10 years.
@@jedbex7070 Ich denke nicht, dass die Gedanken des deutschen Volkes und der deutschen Soldaten falsch waren. The so-called Versailles Peace Treaty of 1919 did not seek to create peace in Europe, but rather to humiliate the Germans and ruin the German Empire. Even the extremely harsh conditions of the “peace treaty” were not enough for the French. With the occupation of the Ruhr in 1923, they wanted to deal the German Reich an economic death blow and annex the German Rhineland. Several attempts by the German Reich government to bring about an understanding with France and to make the reparation payments affordable were rejected by France. French hatred knew no bounds. He created political chaos and mass poverty in Germany and thus supported the rise of National Socialism. I am not a supporter of National Socialism and its ideology, but the fight against “Versailles” was justified. According to general legal opinion, a contract based on the lie of war guilt and under which the German signature was extorted is invalid. Freikorps ahead th-cam.com/video/ZYHZzVayPpg/w-d-xo.html There were various reasons for the German soldiers' perseverance in the Second World War. The soldiers were certainly aware that the victors wanted to destroy Germany and make the German population fair game. The British and American bombing raids on German cities had the primary goal of killing the German civilian population. The Red Army invaded the German Reich looting, raping and murdering. After the war, around 15 million Germans were expelled from their homeland under brutal circumstances. Around 3 million lost their lives. The fears of the Wehrmacht soldiers were subsequently confirmed. The fact that Germany did not disappear completely from the map certainly had to do with the break of the unequal alliance between the Western Allies and the Soviets and the subsequent Cold War. Now the Germans in East and West were sought-after allies by their respective occupying powers. This gave German post-war policy freedom. All German cities looked like Berlin th-cam.com/video/VgDmDKkTn20/w-d-xo.html One of my great-uncles was a young pilot in the German Air Force. His last mission was in East Prussia at the beginning of 1945. It was clear to him that the war could no longer be won. It was also clear to him that he would not return from this mission alive. It was a kamikaze mission. His motivation was to stop the Soviet invaders and allow the German civilian population to escape west. His body lies somewhere in East Prussian soil. His grave is in my heart.
TIK is one of the only history channels that doesn't have overwhelmingly loud audio in their videos, and has a way of doing these videos in which, even when my mind is overstimulated or stressed, I can put the videos on in the background and relax. Thank you once again, TIK! Even in occasional disagreement, you give me a relaxing, passive learning source for my everyday entertainment.
Agree with you...but I have a curious question to ask...Considering TIK's English, what country do you think he is from ? I'm not quite sure but I would bet he is Irish.
I think it's right that ideology plays a large part in how Germany ended the war. However the fact that Himmler who was more committed to many of these ideas compared to even Hitler, was attempting to negotiate with the allies would contradict this. I would say the main motivation for many millions to fight, given how quickly people turned against nazism in defeat, was the threat of the Soviets. The eastern front was a long list of war crimes on both sides and i definitely think the view of many within Germany was to keep pushing on both fronts with the hope of forcing a more positive ceasefire from the west. Potentially protecting themselves from Nuremberg and their place in power.
I'm not denying that it all fell apart in the final days or weeks, but even then Himmler seeking peace with the West could be explained by seeing the Soviets as the bigger threat. There was also the idea that the "Anglo-Saxon" nations would join with Germany to fight the Soviets. So this isn't necessarily a counter to the case.
@@TheImperatorKnight And it wasn't an impossible outcome. Certainly Churchill wanted such a thing. I wonder how history might have changed without Roosevelt favoring Stalin as he did. Bloodier short term but the possibilities seem endless.
If you consider that >90% of the Germans captured at Stalingrad died and never returned home, you have a good reason to keep fighting (not saying that I approve of it).
@@balazslengyel6950 Tik has covered that this high death rate was an exemption likely caused by malnutrition. The overall PoW death was closer to 30%. Not great, but not an automatic death sentence. I think their lack of surrender was more likely due to them anticipating retribution for the crimes they know they did.
To me, the reason why Germany kept fighting is understandable through the lense of Optimistic Nihilism. After a certain point, there's no point in giving up, so why even try quitting? I gave up years ago, but I eventually gave up on giving up so now here I stand just flowing through life with no real drive to continue, nor quit. Perhaps the Wehrmacht had a similar philosophical crisis.
That's a very interesting take on this matter. If you don't mind me asking, have you never found anything you could really believe in? Not necessarily politics, but anything else?
OK et pour le cas japonais ? Pourquoi le Japon a continué le combat après la capitulation allemande alors que le Japon n'avait plus de marine de guerre, plus de matière première, plus d'usine, plus de marine marchande, sa population civile et militaire en quasi famine ? Kml
@@michaelkovacic2608 I believe in love. That one day, I'll find someone. This has always been my dream, to become a father. Though, I'm 21 and have never been on an actual date, I still find joy in the prospect of raising a family and leaving a legacy that proves that I actually existed. This, coupled with my duty to protect my mother and brother are what keep me going.
I find it weird that this has become lost knowledge. I well remember in Jr High and HS back in the 70s this concept of the "national struggle" and the fundamental belief of the average German that life had no meaning outside National Socialism being taught. In fact, it was often taught as part of a fuller discussion on why such ideologies were so dangerous. We were introduced to Bonhoeffer, among others so that we could understand how group identity based thinking leads directly to such outcomes. But then the education system committed suicide...
Same here... one particular history teacher i had was very good and tried to give us the unbiased objective truth but sadly its all one sided today..Public education has outgrown its purpose... IT NEEDS TO DIE.. homeschool your kids folks and get them to watch actual proper historians and learn them to think critically.
It's gone out of fashion academically because there's plenty of evidence to suggest that few True Believers remained in the last year or so of the war. Terror, traditional Prussian militarism, fear of Soviet vengeance - many factors informed German resistance. The great irony is that at the end it was foreign SS who were Hitler's last defenders, while German armies streamed westward.
Kampf can also be translated as 'battle' which is a more intense form of the concept. The Germans didn't see this as mere a 'struggle' but more as a a 'battle' for their very existence/ Translating kampf to struggle downplays what they were actually thinking..
@@niknitro8751This. This constant translation as "struggle" misses the point and leads to unclear and unnecessarily complex explanations. It just describes social darwinism. As the central organizational principle, that human civilization rests upon. Hitler explained different traits of the German people as a whole by them being a mixture of different influences from other, "high value" European people (e.g. German "Gemütlichkeit" coming from the Alpine race, German artistic geniuses coming from the part of German "blood" which had mixed with the Mediterranean peoples etc. AND toughness being attributable to the "Nordic" component. As he painted a scenario in which the Germans as people would be completely destroyed via cultural and genetic dilution over time, because of being supposedly the last "uncorrupted" European civilization currently able to counter the threats he identified, this was his ideological reason to strike first. Anticipating a scenario in which all the "corrupted" would turn on them, he reasoned the very future of (western) civilization was resting on their shoulders and that they had to, at least for the duration of the imminent age of decisive battles and fight for survival, increase the Nordic "component" and preach toughness etc. Jews were identified to be the ultimate problem and thus had to "go". Were the German people to simply give up, that would mean annihilation, even over a long, "false" period of peace (along with European/general civilization) and/or if they lost, they would prove to be unfit for survival by their own rules, and thus deserve to perish. Ideologicallly it was impossible to just stop fighting.
As a german i think my ancestors fought on because they didnt want to have a new 1918 with all bad consequences which followed. They fought on in the hope to get a fair peace treaty instead of unconditional surrender when the allied home front collapses because of too high losses.
@@markmewordz6860 no. See Tik’s video on this subject; I believe it is contained within the reasons for the NSDAP coming to power discussion. The War Guilt clause was a total myth insofar that it promoted German guilt for the war. However, the propaganda to the German people was such that the clause seemed as if it did in fact cause Germany to concede guilt. As such, you may be correct.
As a German I know my ancestors fought on because they are very courageous and game. They never let anything get them down. Having lived in canada for many years I can really see the difference. Most canadians are lazy, immoral and have no inner strength. They are held back and bogged down by the "7 deadly sins". But canadians become very jealous and angry when Germans outclass them and outperform them, which happens all the time.
"Enjoy the war, the peace will be terrible!" Or in German: "Genieße den Krieg der Frieden wird furchtbar sein!" Is a gallows humor quote I've often seen attributed to the Germans toward the end of the war. Thought provoking and constructive video, as always!
Fear of being Imprisoned by the Soviets and the notion that Germany had capitulated in the First world war whilst "on the verge of Victory" contributed to soldiers fighting long after there was any reasonable hope of Victory. Hitler's conviction that he had been saved by divine providence during operation Valkyrie, and his belief that the war could be won by a superweapon also didn't help.
That last belief would have been correct if the Third Reich had been on the verge of producing an atomic bomb. The threat to Britain would have been enough for a negotiated peace in the West at least.
Fear is never a good motivator. Fear of being killed by Soviets vs fear of getting killed by Soviets. Nope. They were men. They decided to stand and fight till the end.
@Andy Manning..You make a persuasive argument there bothe of you... but I think like many things in reality it's not that simple... its more probably a combination of factors which lead to the germans fighting to the death... misinformation, fanatical devotion to the reich...and fear of bieng caught by Soviets and what they'd do to them when caught...also probably some were motivated into it with promises of extra food or fame after if the reich had won.......That's just my thoughts although the may not be right.
A contributing factor could have been a case of the entire German society suffering from the sunk cost fallacy: they had a few good years of huge, impressive victories and, as a gambler who has already lost a lot of money after having a few successes in the past, they couldn't pull out of the war and cut their losses. It is generally difficult to cut the losses. In other words: so much was sacrificed, that "those sacrifices couldn't have been in vain, therefore the struggle must continue".
there was no option for nazi germany to rest on their victories and ride into the sunset. never. the moment hitler became kanzler, it was germany against the rest of the world. restless victory or defeat, and not so because of hitler.
You just described most wars. Look at the US Civil War, for example. Could have all ended at Bull Run in 1861 but then you get Shiloh, and Antietem, and Gettysburg, and the Wilderness and so forth. Deaths in the hundreds of thousands and destruction of entire cities by 1865. And combatants raised with similar ideological beliefs. But ever greater hatred and fanaticism until the struggle cannot be maintained no matter how much you hate the enemy.
I think that Hitler's biggest life purpose was to avenge the defeat of WW1 and many Germans couldn't stomach a similar event, so they kept fighting because they were not going to admit defeat without being forced to. The belief that WW1 was not lost on the battlefield probably drove this.
I had seen the quote before how Hitler thought if Germany couldn't win the war it ought to not exist anymore, but that didn't explain why everyone else kept fighting. This makes so much more sense now. Thanks TIK.
ok, now the only detail missing would be the Gerrrman rrroling RRRR. The hardest sound to make for a native speaker of English, maybe (it´s just as hard the other way round)
This whole video felt like a "well duh" for me. As a German I kept thinking that your conclusion is kind of obvious, it's what almost all speeches I'm aware of are about. It's the core of the national socialist ideology to fight until the end. The total war speech and all lay it out I think. My understanding of this question was originally shaped by a story about my grandfather. In 1944 was helped avoiding the Gestapo by a SS-guy from his village that himself voluntarily was on his way to the eastern front. The circumstances aren't as important as the SS-guys reasoning for going there (previously working in KZ Flossenbürg). "They will never forgive us this". In my understanding of the sentiment at the time this left him two options: 1. be weak and await his fate or 2. be strong and fight until the end. He didn't go east to win the war at that point, he went there to fight and presumably knowing he'd die.
the annoying as a german is the stupid arrogance where people get educated by how the nazis Indoctrinated and think they are immune and then go blindly doing everything the state wants from you. seriously most people focus way more on nazi bad then follow another cult leader who changed his magic tricks a bit . this is the downfall of religion that are just replaced with politcal Ideology that cannot be questioned
Dear TIK. As a son of a former Officer in Spanish Blue Division sent to fight in Eastern Front, I can support your argument. My father went to “struggle” against Communism. The Spaniards who stayed in Berlin after the Blue Division was sent home were there to “struggle”. Death was unimportant (!!). If Fascist Spaniards fought so hard to be part of History, imagine Nazi Germans.
"People should know when they are conquered." Would you Quintus? Would I?" ---- Gladiator. Most historians never heard a shot fired in anger. They look at topics in history as a beginning, a middle and an end. They ask the same question about Lee after Gettysburg, The British after Saratoga, The Japanese after Guadalcanal. Why did they keep on fighting? But then are in awe of The Yankees after Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, The Romans after Cannae, The Soviets after Minks and Smolensk. History is made up of what men were and seldom goes as they had planned. They were living this not reading about it fifty years later. You might as well ask why Joe Louis got up off the canvas in the fourth round after Max Schmeling knocked him down. Well Joe lost that fight so why did he go eight more rounds? Why didn't he realize with a time machine that he was going to lose? Microcosm but same idea on a grander national scale like war.
Oh, I think soldiers know when things aren't going their way and getting worse. When your food ration keeps shrinking, when ammunition supply slows to a trickle, when you are being shelled day and night and continually retreating, when you realize that you only know the names of a third or fewer of the fellow soldiers in your unit, when you realize that your commanders don't even bother trying to lie to you about the dire tactical and strategic situation, etc. etc. etc. Yes, the soldier knows full well that his side is doomed. No sentient soldier would have failed to understand the situation.
@@chuckschillingvideos Yes, I do not think that was up for debate in his video or in my statement. The question was why did they keep fighting if they knew all that. Yes solider know when the war has turned against them. "The prevailing words were lets just take as many as we can to the grave with us." Sgt. Hans Herbst 116th Panzer Div. "They call it The Fatherland in their terminology. So you are going to fight a hell of a lot harder than you would under normal circumstances. I was really amazed at the tenacity of them, it was terrible the amount of resistance they were putting up. They knew they were going to be killed. You knew they were going to be killed but they fought on anyway." John Hale Sherbrooke Fusiliers. Both men are veterans of the battle of the Hochwald Gap 1945. You are fighting for the man next to you and in some weird sense the unique personal idea that you have as your home. Not ideals you can put into words. Not for the stinking party, the culture of the west or for the leader. As one Confederate put it when asked by is Yankee captors why he was still fighting in late 1864. "Cause you are down here and we don't want you here." Men like that and men like the Germans in 1945 can not be conquered only killed, at great cost.
Well, the Soviets is different case, no one offered them surrender... Barbarossa proposed occupation of country up to Urals. Plan Ost would made slavs German slaves. It also started with Mein Kampf. Also Soviets after Smolensk still had massive reserve, Kiev was not fallen yet. And battle for Smolensk wasn't an easy walk, it was 2 moths of bloodbath. So nothing was decided yet. If Soviets lost Stalingrad than it would be decided...
@@alexzero3736 You mean the Russian people would have just stopped fighting is they had lost Stalingrad? That being said then why did the German's keep fighting after Stalingrad? I was talking about about soldiers not the guys in charge, not the arm chair generals and not historians with what ifs. The Soviets were in the same position in 1941-1942 as the Germans in 1943-1945 being offered unconditional surrender is the same as not even offering your opponent to surrender.
This video expands our understanding. As you stated, the answer was in front of us all the time but we didn't see it--until you put it together. The 'cult' not only explains the continued German struggle in the face of defeat, but also the underlying psyche for starting the war in the first place. Really, it appears that Lebensraum, etc. were really rationalizations.
This video reminded me back when I used to read Martin Armstrong's blog. He always wrote about how the Germans were never conquered by Rome. By not being Romanized thru defeat. They kept what made them Germans. Arguably until the pacification after WW2. Maybe more so in West Germany then in East. But am no expert there.
Lebensraum wasn't JUST a rationalization... it was a genuine motive... reason. A rationalization is generally something that happens AFTER doing something. Not before. It's something that people do in order to try to justify something that they have ALREADY decided to do, at the least. It's the "cult" thing... but don't treat that like something stupid or silly. That's some POWERFUL crap, Jim... VERY similar to opioids. Humans are HERD animals... and we are hard-wired for it... to WANT it... and generally-speaking, to NEED it... and yes, that applies to atheists, too, among others, but ESPECIALLY to anyone who is inclined to be or become (or remain) a socialist. If you call it a "cult", people are far too likely to just dismiss it... and think that THEY are immune to it, because THEY are too smart... which is BS. The psychology of it is EXACTLY the same thing that causes people to join TEAMS... and yes, GANGS... and, yes, MOBS... and, yes, to "gather 'round the water cooler" and discuss their favorite new TV show or movie... it's "bonding" over a shared interest, belief, etc. The "vaccine" isn't being smart. You don't need to be very smart. What you DO need to prevent it, is to just be AWARE... and to be argumentative, or disagreeable, or individualistic enough to say 'no'. The more "agreeable" a person is, the more likely they are to fall for it, in particular, THIS "cult"... socialism, for EXACTLY that reason... which is also the reason that they treat someone like J K Rowling as a TRAITOR, rather than simply someone who disagrees with them... because JKR "betrayed" the "cult" of modern feminism... when she basically said that trans-women can't be a "part of her cult/herd/tribe of women".
@@BaronEvola123 Okay... I can deduce that you hate bankers... but bankers generally DON'T like wars. Wars tend to be BAD for their business, and EXTREMELY high risk. Their assets tend to get blown up for one thing. They get labeled as "bourgeoisie" for another thing, and then get introduced to that certain "madame" which is really sharp for another... or a firing squad or hangman's noose as in the Russian Revolution. For yet another thing, wars tend to cause inflation... which is bad for their existing cash-on-hand, since it devalues existing currency. And revolutions are even worse than external wars. Bankers like STABILITY... and there is nothing LESS stable than a revolution.
I had a relative from Rastenburg. At age 14-15 he was told that he had to fight to the death or he will be killed by his German superiors. It is hard to imagine him fighting in the last battles for Berlin.
Honestly, this is hard to believe. My grandpa wanted to volunteer at age 15 to defend his homeland that is now part of Poland. But they sent him home. There were many volunteers like him. And noone needed to be convinced at gun point.
@@brownie830419 I did not write that he had to be convinced at gunpoint. He did not need to be told anything but the older superiors wanted to be emphatic and make sure that the most that could fight would fight. No, Werner Fenske was fearless. I knew him well and he was a very kind man. I'm glad that you mentioned the age. 15 rings a bell more than 14. But many even younger fought. He died in Florida. I was not notified of his death. I once had the birthdays of many of my German relatives. My grandfather born in 1896 kept a record of his nieces, nephews and other relatives. I put his telephone book in the garbage. It had all of the birthdays of people that no longer exist. Werner worked for British Airways and was well liked. His last post on Facebook was in 2013.
what great insight. all of your vids are at minimum entertaining, beyond that they are informative and most importantly thought provoking. Your vids have led to significant discussions between me and my friends and family. Thank you for your hard work.
Hi TIK, in my opinion the reason why the soldiers and civilians fight on especially after the invading of Russia is much more simpler. I once asked my grandpa the same question 30 years ago. He said that after 41/42 ever the lowest ranking soldier have heard, watched or even participarted in one of the attrocities commited by the Wehrmacht, Party and SS. They knew that there will be no mercy from the Allied and especially from the Russians who seeked for revance. So all they could do, is to fight on for their own lives and that of their families at home. In my opinion that is also the reason why so many high ranking officers fought to the end. Only in the last 1-2 month when it was clear that the allies do not shoot POWs on the spot and the Wehrmacht soldiers found out that they could blame the SS and the Generals could blame the Nazis for all the attrocities to stay alive, mass surrendering starts at the West front.
so there u have it form the horses mouth. I have talked with many German Vets of WW2 and they all say the same thing. That is that they all were afraid of what would happen after all they had done and seen. I talked to one man 40 yr ago who said they all knew men or men who knew men, who had gotten out of camps the Russians sent them to so they knew what awaited them. After the western allies landed in France many I talked to said they tried very hard to get some place to surrender the them rather then to die on the Eastern front or be taken their and live in one of those camps that were just as bad as the ones the Germans set up. It is funny what u can get an old man to tell u if u spend a little time in a bar with him buying the drinks and just talking to him on trooper to another. Yes I am a trooper (VN '70, !01st) So what they were doing was fighting for their lives not ideology Just to say but when u look at so called men of letters they all see life as a struggle either man v man or man v sin I say dont give them any time none of them really know anything of life and what the common man struggles for What does the common man struggle for? An easy one. To stay alive nothing more then to just live and do so with some comfort Not much do we ask for just some
I agree with that point. Also the German soldier was having his family, his wife, daughter or girlfriend on his mind. What would happen to them, if the hordes from the East will get them? That also explains why defections and surrenders of German soldiers were so much more common on the western than on Eastern front. They knew that the Russians would be merciless, as Wehrmacht and the SS were cruel in the SU.
@@winstonsmith8482 Maybe, but what the Nazis did with the Jews, Forced Labour, the Slavs etc. was not even comparable and the German soldiers knew deep in their heart that it was ethicaly & moral much much worse what they did.
I’ve always gone with the fear of reprisal, protection of the homeland, and the fact that the allies were demanding unconditional surrender. Hitler did say if he couldn’t get the oil he needed in 1942 he’d need to end the war but couldn’t end it if it was to be unconditional. But this - though incredibly obvious when said - barely gets a look in for the most part so this has definitely shifted my focus. Fascinating as always.
Well I can talk from my family point of view that came from Silesia that now belongs to Poland. The main reason to fight on was to protect your homecountry from 1944 onwards - as far as i can tell from my relatives and their stories. The russians raped and murdered a lot of people and the last thing you do is just surrender and say: ok take my home, and everything I have. Its a mixed feeling of hope and fear and I would guess for the normal person back then the propaganda and the fact that you didnt know exactly how the war was going. All the people in the town were my grandparends grew up were absolutely shocked when they heard that the Red Army was coming near as they tought the front was stable and there was no real threat.
As a ww2 nerd and someone interested in the vast perspectives and information about the said war, this channel is a gold mine for someone like me and I've invested lots of my time into this channel and the return investment has been well worth it.
Wow, this is eye opening. You see, I live in Europe and speak multiple European languages. I worked with multiple German and Swiss companies as well as with Anglosaxons, and it always struck me how different these cultures behave. Now I see that a big portion of it is inherited from previous regimes.
On a tangent... Saddam Hussein's told his FBI interrogator that his favorite book was "The Old Man and the Sea" by Hemingway, precisely because he was so enamoured with the idea of "struggle", and that was a factor in why he didn't cut a deal that could have saved his life way before 2003. This video reminded me of that and might be worth for TIK to make a video about.
TIK your work is actually so fantastic. I love the depth at which you go. Other history channels, while fine & serviceable most of the time, really don't end up being all that fulfilling.
Very interesting to see you come up with a psychological answer on this one, as this field is, imho, often overlooked in military/political analysis. I think it could also provide some interesting insight to understand the industrial revolution paradox (i.e. the fact that it brought great political turmoil despite an overall enrichment of the population). That Mosley video you did recently was really nice yet I feel a few more explanations could be provided by including the whole 'death of god' parameter into it. Anyways, love your work, and hope you're doing well Regards
for years now ive explained germanies collapse so quickly after hitler self deleted as because "the spell was broken". it was clear hitler was a cult leader that had beguiled a nation. this pretty much confirms what ive been saying all along. it makes so much sense now. thanks for your research on the matter.
Wrong conclusion. It was because they were fighting the Red Army. You do not surrender to the Red Army. Do you even know how they got that name? Not a gram of honor or chivalry between them. Thsts how. You dont surrender to an enemy like that. You fight them to the death.
@@ryanparker4996 im talking about german resistance in the light of obvious defeat. it didnt stop until hitlers end broke the spell. thats why so many units gave up the fight finally.
I've been following you for a year now and have watched most of your videos over the course of that time. However, your more recent videos attempting to explain National Socialism and it's philosophy has been quite the adventure. I find myself viewing this series several times and have ordered many of the books you've suggested. Needless to say, you have opened my eyes to a whole new way of understanding this topic, and for that I think you. Moreover, I am sharing this knowledge with others with mixed results and for some, I (we) have peeked their interest.
History usually rhymes, too. You can also see this with NHS doctors and nurses. They knew that they had participated in a lie, and that their compliance had imposed great harm on others. It started back in March 2020 when oldies who were deemed 'bed blockers' were euthanized for the greater social good. Then came the arm-spearing (code). They must have known that the damage caused by the Britney Spears & the Boosters was far worse than Conjob-19, but by this stage they were already in double-down mode. Like Hitler, Conjob-19 was also a cult.
I've had this thought for a while now, as I've been watching your videos for about a year or two and contemplating the current state of the world, and this seems to be bone-chillingly correct: "The line between ideology and religion is incredibly thin." Sounds like something a philosopher would say. If anyone knows if one such had said or wrote something along these lines previously, please let me know so I can give credit in the future.
Look at the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The motivations of Putin and his adherents only are comprehensible if one understands their view of "Russian civilization". He is not a madman, just a true believer in nonsense.
Compare and contrast with Japan's worship of its Emperor and belief that their triumph was ordained by heaven. MHV's interview of D. M. Giangreco several years ago was a real eye-opener to me. They were willing to lose 40 million people (half the population of the Home Islands)--mostly underequipped civilians impressed into service--in order to kill a million GIs, because they truly believed that America's will would break and they would get most of what they wanted at the armistice table. And the only reason Hirohito surrendered was because his internal police had warned that if half the population died, there was a non-zero chance the other half would revolt and overthrow the whole dynasty. The first Bomb wasn't enough: it was the *second* Bomb, together with US propaganda that there were hundreds more Bombs ready to go (there weren't) that *bluffed* Hirohito into taking his secret golden parachute (that the dynasty would be allowed to continue despite the unconditional surrender) and running for the exit, despite a number of generals wanting to fight to the last civilian.
It was the impact of the atomic bombs along with the invasion by the Soviet Union that split the War Cabinet and put the decision to the Emperor, who decided to surrender.
Its also the mindset of other cultures. Living to a ripe old age in a rocking chair on the porch is not a universal value. The idea the country can and should go on in perpetuity is not universal. Our shrines and temples are in marble and stone - permanent. The primary shrine at Iza in Japan is torn down and rebuilt every 20 years. Sure enough tearing down one Japan allowed another to grow.
@@jackee-is-silent2938 _'... along with the invasion by the Soviet Union'_ The Soviets invaded Manchuria by ground. The bulk of the Japanese army were in China and not in Manchuria. Manchuria (and Korea) was held mostly by the Kwantung Army, a far weaker force than the IJA. The best troops of the Kwantung Army had been sent to the Pacific earlier. The Soviets shared Sakhalin with Japan, and ground operations into the south began 11 Aug. On 16 August, a Soviet coast guard ship, four minesweepers, two transports, six gunboats, and nineteen torpedo boats *docked* in Port Toro in the south. The first landing on the Kuril Islands came on 18 August _after_ Japan accepted the terms of surrender. This invasion surprised the Japanese force there who thought the War was over, and it ended up being a bit of a debacle for the Soviets, who took heavy casualties after the Japanese regrouped at Battle of Shumshu. Further, 5 of the 16 landing craft were sunk by Japanese artillery fire. On 1 September, elements of the 87th Rifle Corps were landed by torpedo boats, mine trawlers, and transports on Kunashir and Shikotan in the southern Kuril Islands. The problem the USSR faced was it lacked amphibious landing ships in the quantity required and, and more importantly, know-how. The USSR didn't have much of a navy and its wartime experience was land and air operations. The US transferred 30 large infantry landing craft, each capable of carrying approx 200 men to the USSR - 6000 men. Despite having this new capability, the USSR was a novice in amphibious assault such as that conducted by the Allies at Normandy and the US in the Pacific. An invasion of Japan's home islands would require mass landings well supported by naval barrage and air supremacy. In August 1945 the Soviets lacked the ability to pull this off. Supreme Council for the Direction of the War, aka 'the Big Six', was made up of the Prime Minister Admiral (retired) Suzuki, Minister of Foreign Affairs Togo, Minister of the Army General Anami, Minister of the Navy Admiral Yonai, Chief of the Army General Staff General Umezu, and Chief of the Navy General Staff Admiral Toyoda. This was a subset of the Cabinet. It split 3-3 on 9 Aug - Suzuki, Togo, and Yonai for. Prior to the vote Suzuki, fearing it would be exceedingly difficult to secure unanimity, requested and obtained the Emperor's assurance of an Imperial decision in the event of a deadlock. After the vote Suzuki informed the emperor that consensus was impossible and requested that Hirohito express his views. In the wee hours of 10 Aug the Emperor stated that he was in complete accord with the views of the pro-surrender group and then proceeded to give his reasons. To continue the war would be suicidal, he said, adding that to end the war on this occasion was the only way to save the nation from destruction. He then pointed to the record of the military. The Emperor said it was apparent that their performance had fallen far short of the plans and promises expressed, pointing out that although he had been assured many times in the past that victory was certain, it had not been realised. He then detailed the military's recent failures, for example fortifications along the Kujukuri-Hama coast were past the promised completed date. This flattened the pro-war camp. The meeting ended at 0230 and the _entire_ cabinet reconvened at 0300. Those who had not met the Emperor were informed of his decision. The full Cabinet unanimously agreed to Togo's surrender message and signed the necessary document of approval. In the morning both Anami and Toyoda warned their subordinates against any attempts to subvert the surrender. _'The Japanese Government is ready to accept the terms enumerated in the joint declaration which was issued at Potsdam on July 26th, 1945, by the heads of the Governments of the United States, Great Britain, and China, and later subscribed by the Soviet Government,_ *with the understanding that the said declaration does not comprise any demand which prejudices the prerogatives of His Majesty as a Sovereign Ruler.'* The last bit was to cause some problems. The Allies' response on 12 Aug included: 'From the moment of surrender the authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government to rule the State shall be subject to the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers who will take such steps as he deems proper to effectuate the surrender terms.' Interpretations by the Japanese varied greatly. General Umezu and Admiral Toyoda spoke to the Emperor and asked that he reconsider. He refused. Anami wanted clarification from the Allies. Suzuki waffled. On 13 August, the Japanese ambassador to Sweden cabled the Foreign Office. He reported that the US had resisted heavy pressures by the Soviet Union and China for outright removal of the Emperor. With this info, Togo informed his colleagues that if Japan continued to delay, the hardliners on the Allied side would prevail and the Emperor would be removed. But, if they accepted the US message, Japan under the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers, an American, would best ensure the Emperor's future. Suzuki backed the surrender. A meeting of the full Cabinet convened. The majority backed surrender. On 14 Aug the US dropped leaflets over Japanese cities that revealed the surrender talks. The public had been kept in the dark. The pro-surrender camp informed the Emperor of this development and the danger it posed by giving the extremists a powerful weapon with which to oppose the Emperor's will to sue for peace. It was imperative, therefore, that the Emperor declare war be ended immediately lest he might lose control of the armed forces in the field. The Emperor readily agreed. Later in the morning the Emperor met with his leading generals and admirals, but not Anami, Umezu, and Toyoda, and informed them of his decision to surrender and his expectation they support it. The Cabinet convened later at 1100. The three holdouts were asked to speak. They restated their opposition. The Emperor then spoke, saying that his decision of 10 Aug was unchanged. It was feared the three holdouts might resign, but none did. The Cabinet next spent several hours over the draft surrender message, the Imperial Rescript of Surrender. During this time the Emperor recorded his surrender message to the nation, to be broadcast on 15 Aug. The Imperial Rescript of Surrender was finished and signed at 2300 on 14 Aug. It was ordered to be proclaimed, but printing problems delayed this until 15 Aug. Promulgation of the Rescript was telegrammed to the four Allied Governments through the facilities of the Swiss Government.
@@gagamba9198most of Japanese industry at that time was in Manchuria There were even plan to continue the struggle there It is one of the reason for Ichigo besides trying to knock chinese out of the war With Manchuria collapse and ussr entering+ the bomb, all of the plan of continue struggle was thrown out of the water. They didn't really expect or want ussr to enter the war, bc that would allow the continuous struggle in china. Tho nearly the end there is still a pro war coup attempted to stop surrender
The biggest problems with Germany and Japan is that they put their faiths in a single human, and humans are flawed, thus they never carried on the fight otherwise they would have wore down the allies and actually won undoubtedly so. Basically Japs and Germs were neo-jihadists/crusaders but instead of a God they had their emperor and fuhrer, which made them clearly inferior in sustaining a lasting struggle.
I think you are correct to say that Germany fought to the bitter end because, among other reasons, many believed that defeat would mean that the Allies (all of them, Western and Eastern) would treat the German people as the Germans treated all those they defeated. They expected to be slaughtered and enslaved, mostly correctly in the East, mostly incorrectly in the West.
Not that the western allies didnt *want* to do it. The americans had their famous morgenthau plan which was literally identical to generalplan ost, and every allied nation including denmark and the netherlands got a share of german slaves for "reparations"
It's about personal ego. Leaders that can't accept defeat, and ordinary people showing loyalty. It's human emotions making you blind from rational thinking
An excellent video. Too often people overlook the ideological and religious reasons behind people's actions in discussions of war, even though that's at least as important as the material and strategic side of the question.
Part of that is that very often the ideological and/or religious 'reasons' are, in fact, excuses for what they wanted to do anyway. This is a reminder that that isn't always the case.
Actually the post war Jewish Morgenthau Plan was to exterminate 1/3 of the German population and to return it to an agrarian state. And it partially succeeded for at least 2 years after the war when the Germans were hungrier then than during the war. Fortunately by 1948 the policy had ended, and once the US realized that Stalin was their real enemy, they began to help Germany economically to become a bulwark against the Soviet threat.
It also helped that the alliance between stalin, FDR and jewish magnates broke down when FDR died and stalin backstabbed the jews with the doctors plot, neccessitating his assassination. Otherwise, roosevelts US may have very well just handed everything to stalin.
In my interpretation, Germany's bid for surrender was rejected by the allies who favored total warfare, i.e. the unconditional defeat of Nationalist Socialist Germany, so there wouldn't be another nebulous armistice. The allies didn't want any reason for a future generation of Germans to believe they were robbed of victory. So the allies did reject the Nationalist Socialist Germany's peace advances.
@@actuallyKriminell While that may be true for starting a war, it isn't a plausible reason to stop a war. It was understood by the allied politicians that the WWI armistice was nebulous and an excuse for the rise of Hitler's Germany. So allied politicians rejected all peace feelers and opted for unconditionally warfare. Bankers don't look beyond their balance sheets.
Interesting reason indeed, after watching plenty of your videos i did come to a conclusion before you uploaded this video, that the reason they kept fighting till the end couldn't be just military "stick to tanks" kinda of deal, but figuring out the reason was still too hard to come up myself
I couldn't have come up with this myself without looking at a combination of different sources - James Lindsay's lectures on Gnosticism, actual National Socialist literature, and then Carlos Videla's book (which may also be a Nazi book, I can't tell). So if I hadn't gone down this route of trying to figure out roots of National Socialist ideology, there's no way I would have found this either. It seems that a lot of the answers to the questions we have about the stuff in WW2 aren't answered on the battlefield. They're not answered logically. It lies in the ideology.
@@TheImperatorKnight makes me feel kinda stupid honestly for not looking at the ideologies specially nazies more than the basic stuff and just assuming the battlefield is the key answer to everything else, even though its been in front of our noses whole this time...
Part of the reason is what Hitler did BEFORE the invasion... back in the 30's. He demonized the Slavs (like he did to the Jews). This explains a huge part of the reason that the EF was so much more brutal than the WF... and even aside from the history of brutality, the reason (one) that they simply COULD NOT bring themselves to surrender to the Bolsheviks/Slavs, unless there was no other option but death... or permission from the leader(s) of their "herd". BTW, the IJA and IJN had done MUCH the same thing to their own soldiers when it came to Americans and Chinese... and thus the similarity in the brutality (Bataan Death March, the "R" of Nanking, etc.), REFUSAL TO SURRENDER, etc. Americans were "weak", "pathetic", "inferior", "the enemy", etc... things which were quite similar to what AH said about the Jews and Slavs.
I know you are not german but you keep saying "Volk", in german V is pronounced as F, so Volk is pronounced just like the english word "folk", Which incidently is also where the english word comes from.
@@TheImperatorKnight Fair enough, its just a bit ironic because its the same word and meaning in both german and english, they just used a different letter.
Eh. I wouldn't bother. V is not always read like an F (think "Virus"), and it will just confuse English speakers. I have to think back to the first grade where we learned when to use the "Vogel V", and not the F. Pretty sure it would be the same for an english speaker learning German. :)
@@Vitross I can say Folk or Volk, but the different letter throws me off. It's a V, not an F, and so I read it as a V, not an F, and then have to mentally correct it from a V to an F, which makes me not give a V, which is secretly an F. 😂
You should read the Morganthau plan,of what should happen to the German nation after the war,and discussed by Stalin,Truman,and Churchill,at the Potsdam Conference ,when they collectively carved up Germany !
Yes and it had been leaked so Germany was well aware of its genocidal agenda . They also knew from the Holodomor famine genocide and Katyn Wood massacres that they must fight or their families would be murdered . Unconditional Surrender effectively meant that that fighting and losing were better than surrendering . Millions of German women were raped and murdered and 2 million German soldiers killed in the Rhine camps by the Americans and French . The Germans had no choice but to fight whatever the odds against them .
In my own words, "Life is a perpetual struggle, a cross that must be bore to the bitter end." Great video. It's a nice way to put a bow on the idea of why it took marching to the Gates of Berlin to reach VE-Day.
Hey there TIK. Love to see your still making videos after getting burnt out with Stalingrad. Take all the time you want, I know I’ll keep coming back for whatever you make because it is always well thought out and explained in great detail. Historians need to take a page or two from your repertoire ❤
Thanks for this TIK. I find your arguments in this video plausible and indeed convincing, as in your other videos. They certainly stimulate me to think about complex historical issues.
19:30-19:45 Its not about shifting historic paradigm or the ideologies of our vanquished adversaries, its about the tanks we stuck to along the way... Top notch as always TIK.
do you think that atleast to the average soldier below the rank of major, the fact that superior weapons like the Tiger II, Panther, V2 and Me 262 were being introduced, helped to fight on. I've read in many memoirs that soldiers had the idea that germany just needed time, and that the wunderwaffe would turn the tide if germany held out for long enough. I'd personally guess that this idea would stick to the average soldier in a similar way that many modern ideas like reducing personal carbon emissions to help save the air around us stick to the average person. Both nonsensical but still fundamentally logical if you don't think critically.
Oh yeah kinda like today, we just need to get the latest tech to the Ukrainians and they will win! Lol, seriously though the sentiment is certainly similar. From my understanding it's primarily been an artillery war, and russia can just make more. We are putting faith in tech and the Slavic peoples ability to use said tech. When the utility is in artillery this amounts to a faith in the newest and best weapons. When in reality it's tech that has existed for nearly 150 years, which is winning.
Definitely this. I'm reading Antony Beever's 'Arnhem' and it's filled with anecdotes of Wehrmacht soldiers terrorising Dutch civilians that they'll all be done for once they start mass producing V1 and V2 rockets - and that they'll turn the tide in no time. Despite being in full retreat on the eastern front and having lost almost all their heavy equipment in the west at Falaise, the typical german Landser was in high spirits. I think this is something that people just can't understand about the latter stages of the war. I wonder if we look at the last year of the war with too much hindsight. Why did the soviet troops fight on when the germans were at the gates of Moscow? Why did they fight on at Arnhem or Anzio? Why did the British keep fighting after Dunkirk? What about the Ukrainians in Mariupol last year? Operational Inertia probably plays a big part too: it's easier to keep doing what you've been doing than completely change your point of view.
According to interviews of german ww2 veterans some of them claim the reason to keep on fighting late for them in the war was hope for something. i.e. hope for reaching a stalemate, hope for slowing down the soviets in the east, hope for evacuating civilians, hope for better terms etc. Even some lower rank soldiers expressed their hope for those wonder weapons in some cases. Seems very unlikely that all or almost all soldiers were into the super darwinistic eat or get eaten/ morals are for the weak ideology especially towards the end of the war. Also the somewhat common jokes about Hitler and other party leaders don't really imply blind faith all over the place into the 'cult'. This video has some interesting thoughts but TiK is a bit careless when he is generalizing too much.
I agree with this - several recent books on Intelligent Design (opposed to Darwinian evolution) have pointed out that Darwin was popular in Germany (eg, embroyologist Ernst von Haeckel, and many others) have that Darwin's 'struggle for existence' and 'survival of the fittest' was inherent in the 'Origin of Species' and 'The Descent of Man' and that he borrowed this from Malthus to make his theory sound more intellectually respectable.
Man, in the 1970s...most of my teachers were WWII vets, they didn't go into in depth detail but say like my 4th grade teacher Mr. Linden taught history so he would say my unit fought here, terrible battle if history was covering that battle.
Fabulous video. I like how you are never afraid to correct yourself or amend your position after getting new info or i sight. I think that is the mark of a true scholar.
I like that you're reading Voegelin. He's often one of my go to writers to understand modern political phenomenon. I struggle calling this type of cult mentality a religion. That may be my own bias, since I'm religious, but I sincerely struggle to find religions that tell you "not to think". All the major abrahamic religions, and a lot of the eastern ones, give you a framework to individually interpret the world. Modern political ideology shuns thinking individually altogether in favor of some sort of collective actualization guided by the enlightened leader. Simplifying it: God wants to change and elevate the man; ideology wants the man to disappear, absorbed by a collective consciousness embodied by the leader. It's a man created god and the definition of what we Christians would call idolatry.
I've only just really discovered Voegelin, so I'm behind the curve a little. But yes, it's good stuff. The one book I've used so far is not an easy read though!
Great video TIK. Just finished this. I have to say that this is a spot on mark to this question. I have more than relatability to this feeling. This has become more of a religious conversation and rightfully so, I can say that there are still very many that subscribe to this world-religious-historical view. It’s hard to dispute German war propaganda when today many of their narratives, at least on the fundamental level, are validated. It’s hard to even find a different world view once you open up this pandora box. Regardless of your own personal views I enjoy the objective discussion.
I'm liking your comment on the basis of the acknowledgement that Nazism is a religious movement. I'll be honest, I thought the religious aspects of National Socialism were just an added extra to maybe convince some Christians that they were on the same team. However, I now realise that the religious elements are actually central to the whole thing. This is an actual cult. From the symbols, to the "mesmeric" speeches, the rambling sermon that is Mein Kampf, the "stand fast" orders, the Volkssturm, the Volksgemeinschaft, the working towards the Führer, the way that Hitler's disciples were all spellbound by him... It all just makes sense when you see Hitler as a cult Leader (a Führer). - "It’s hard to dispute Germany war propaganda when today many of their narratives, at least on the fundamental level, are validated." I don't necessarily agree with this part. You have to realise that there's no such thing as "volk" or "races", or any of this nonsense. You're an individual, not a group. Nazi propaganda may seem validated, but only if you buy into the idea of "Volk" or "race". If you don't, then the narrative crumbles.
Whenever I encounter these nazi propagandist starting about white genocide or replacement I ask them what are you doing to help your race. If they were really part of the white race they would be working hard at school to get lots of money to fund a large tradition family to maintain the white race and would be encouraging their friends and family to do likewise. Like the nazi say do ask what your race can do for you but what you can do for your race. Up to now I have never encountered a nazi or a white racialist who lives this lifestyle. They act like other individuals in the west. They play video games, watch TH-cam, drink and eat. Instead of earning lots of money, rasing a family, exercising their body and mind so they are pure and strong.
@@alg7115 "However it's a bit daft to say races don't exist. And It seems a bit ideologicaly dogmatic." I'm not a race. Are you a race? Even if The Race existed, it's irrelevant. I'm an individual, and you're an individual. We are not the same. There are no groups, only individuals. Stop thinking as if you're part of something bigger because you're not. The fact that you think you're part of a monolithic group that doesn't exist is the "dogmatic ideology" you should be criticizing.
Excellent. Once again, you add a piece to the history puzzle that we haven't really thought of. My father, who witnessed 'The Reich', always told me that the Germans fought on from guilt. They knew what they had done - in the East, they had, as Stephan Fritz tells us, carried out a deliberate and systematic 'war of extermination'. Hence the struggle (sic) against the forces of the USSR. But the war in the west (in 1940) was not without its depredations. They knew there would be a reckoning. Or that's what Dad thought at least. Guilt and fear - powerful motivations, if you want to add them to the pot. But that doesn't explain the homefront fight. Good video, well done.
It was the Russians who carried out systematic war of extermination just like what they are doing in the Ukraine today Stalins war of extermination by Hoffman should be read by all interested in that war
Excellent account. It is interesting how similiar the germans were to the japanese in how they fought. Both had a performative aspect to their combat and as a result were extremely tenecious. Both treated combat as almost as performance art. The japanese fought as if their ancestors were watching, the germans for future generations of aryans. If you are interested i can provide refernces.
Bravo, TIK. You are leveling up your game at an astounding pace. I am guessing the circular hand motion at the end of the video is related to the Ouroboros and the Hermetic belief of "As above, so below." If not intentional, you're definitely on the correct path philosophically speaking. Voegelin is a good source on this subject, and if you came to these conclusions without reading Peikoff's "The Cause of Hitler's Germany", then that'd be another bravo required. As you say, it's a cult and most of the cultists are unaware of it. They've been tricked, thus the myriad of historical references to Hitler having "had them in his spell" or "hypnotizing" the people. A good way to understand the trick or the "spell" is to understand the polysemy going on. Polysemy is when a word has multiple meanings, i.e: "I'm going to play outside." and "I'm going to see a play tonight." Same word, different meaning, based on context. What Hitler is doing is *conceptual* polysemy. The word "volk" was understood to mean "people" in a general context, "German folk". This is how most understood it. Hitler meant it in a particular context however, a National Socialist ideological context. This context can be referred to as Hermetic, gnostic, Marxist, progressive, etc. It essentially means a certain subset of people who have a particular gnostic view of the world. They have "nous" or "mind", essentially that they are awake to the way reality truly is, or as it's referred to in the West today: they're woke. The Hitler speech quotes you chose were well selected. Try replacing the word "folk" with the word "folx" and the language and meaning are near identical. Replace "Volksgemeinschaft" with "Folxgemeinschaft" and you get something very similar (though situated in a different context). In the name of "equity" in America for example, you get segregation based on skin color to protect the "folx". "Communities of color" in modern Western parlance *is* an equivalent to Volksgemeinschaft. "Safe spaces for trans folx" in modern Western parlance *is* an equivalent to Volksgemeinschaft. They are the Volk/folx, they have the "nous" or "mind" or are "awakened" (i.e: woke). That's the trick (well, one of them). That's the slight of hand, the conceptual polysemy. The average person doesn't think like a crazy person. When you're trying to point out how crazy people think, the reaction of the average person is to say "No, that's crazy, you're crazy, no one thinks like that." When you're discussing "unconditional surrender", it's the Volk that view it as the end of the Volk, that they will be extinguished. Not that they will be sent to Siberia or sterilized but that the Volk will be defeated which they consider to be the death of their "Volk", a specific subset of human beings who have true knowledge of how the world works. Today, you hear the same claim from "trans folx", claiming there will be a "trans genocide" - they mean the "way of life" of their "volk" will be extinguished, they will cease to "be". Conceptual polysemy, again. Makes it very easy to trick people. I'd also like to point out that the quote you use referring to "world history" has gnostic roots as well in Hegelianism. The Hegelians claim to know how "History" (capital H) unfolds, how you get from point A to point B, in a scientific manner. "Otherwise world history will have lost it's meaning." is Jodl saying what amounts to "Our theory of reality and how History unfolds and how we reach Heaven on Earth will have lost it's meaning". It would be the undoing of the Volk, their cult-religion being decimated. Keep up the great work :)
I haven't read that book, but I'll pick it up. Thank you for the recommendation! And yes, I agree with the rest of your comment, and hadn't heard of the concept of polysemy before.
@@TheImperatorKnight Thanks for taking the time to respond! I think it's a book you'll have a bit of a hard time putting down once you get your hands on it, so I hope you thoroughly enjoy it. I greatly appreciate the time, effort and energy you put into your work and I believe it's going to be far more valuable in the years to come. Keep on the path you're on and I think things will work out very well for you!
As a kid I learned about ww2 and didn’t think much of it, as an adult with what’s going on with Ukraine it truly shocks me how horrible war is, I could not imagine how my grandparents got through ww2 and didn’t let it effect them with all the bombings of Sheffield they went through.
I don't think that there is necessarily an inherent contradiction between soldiers fighting to avoid retribution/punishment and the struggle for the volk as a whole. One tactic widely used by cults is to implicate all of the members, through direct action or by association, in the unsavory/illegal activities of the cult. Every German soldier fighting on the eastern front knew about the Commissar Order. Even if they didn't participate directly in those atrocities, they knew that they were collectively guilty and would be punished for the actions of their fellow soldiers. The struggle of the individual and the struggle of the volk therefore became one and the same.
I'm just commenting for engagement. I don't have much to add. I always figured the "stab in the back" was sufficient for the military and the populace to not want to commit the same crime they had hated for nearly three decades. Thanks for the video
I've been watching james lindzey video's about CRT and other wokish topics and some of your videos are lining up with his content. i recognize that true things will line up by different actors without any communication. but i'm curious if you've watched any of his content?
Yes I have. I've got his book on Race Marxism too, and I hope he makes a book on Gnosticism. I've been looking into it myself, and it's a revelation. Seeing Hitler's Movement as a religion or cult of Volk-Struggle actually makes everything fall into place. The "hypnotic" speeches, the Volkssturm, the SS Aryan religion, the symbolism, the marches, the "Madman Hitler" card, the "stand fast" orders, the "irrationality".... It all lines up.
@Christ's Kingdom is Coming! "Hitler reportedly always kept a copy of Blavatsky's writings by his bedside and was greatly influenced by her writings" I've not heard this before. Do you have a source for this information?? - "The Thule society as well as the Vrill likely held Gnostic beliefs among others. If this is the case, then these Ideas have very much influenced Hitler's world view and helped shape the man he became." Yeah, but Hitler didn't enter the Thule. Some of the ideas may have originated from that, but it can't all be blamed on that because the evidence doesn't support the conclusion that Hitler was directly influenced by the Thule.
I will sum up the question of "why did the Nazis keep fighting" very briefly and succinctly here. Think of your most deeply-held beliefs and principles. The ones you hold most dear and most define who you are as a person. Now imagine you're fighting a war against people who hold beliefs that are the exact opposite of yours, and your side is losing that war. You're losing so bad that your defeat is inevitable. So your choice is, surrender and live your life in compliance with a set of beliefs and principles that fly in the face of the ones you hold most dear, or keep fighting for what you believe in. I think you get my point.
This is a great video - and I think it gets at the heart of the matter, but for many in Germany - the White Rose and the Confessing Church movement - they understood this in a very real way very early on... I am glad you are reading Voegelin and hope you will find him useful, especially regarding Heraclitus.
It's not pronounced VOLK. The German volk is pronounced the same way and has a similar meaning as the English term FOLK. Although folk is reference to family or community, while volk refer to people or nation.
The memoirs of Sepp Allersberger explain in detail why German units kept fighting and didn't surrender - they couldn't, the Reds wouldn't let them. At the same it is how other commentators have said, going down fighting meant damage control and buying time.
I can't believe the answer was staring us in the face. I've read plenty on the Nazi's and their ideology, but I didn't quite make the connection with the fact that the Volk was the most important thing to Hitler and the idea of the thousand-year Reich. This would explain why Hitler killed himself and why he took his wife and dogs with him as well. Suicide by just German civilians on the east side of the Elbe Line was very high and millions of others fled the advancing Soviets. One of the largest land evacuations was held in the final months of the war. Combined with the fact that the US, Britian, and France were treating POW's and civilians far better than the Soviets.
I’ve only been able to make it to the 7-min mark. Do you cover the Morgenthau Plan? Do you cover the publicity Kaufman’s book ‘Germany Must Perish’ got in the early 40’s, both in the USA & Germany?
He didnt. Its much easier for allied apologists to just pretend like "they were brainwashed" instead of admitting the allies were waging a self declared war for german extinction.
They weren’t lambs they believed in something that just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean they’re wrong I mean look at the world know who’s to say who things would of went..
Well done on coming to this realization! I greatly respect a person like yourself who is so persistently able to challenge his core beliefs, do research whilst reducing bias as much as possible, and ultimately discern the objective truth - or at least - something notably closer to that truth. The fact that people like you exist in this world quite honestly gives me reassurance that all hope is not lost for this world. On my part, I’ve long since known (or guessed, rather) that the Nazis fighting to their death was due to cultish fanaticism due to their (false) worldview, but this was admittedly just a guess rather than a well-researched opinion on my part. Despite my relative ignorance, I was reflecting how this realization was so easy for me to grasp when clearly it is not so for others. Perhaps my general ignorance of the true realities and numbers of waging war ironically aided in me arriving at this conclusion, simply because - as I have a much reduced grasp of the realities of Germany’s position in its final days than you - my estimation of the irrationality of continuing the fight is much less than someone who truly understands the gravity of Germany’s situation by that point? I am curious what you think about this. Probably each person’s backgrounds no matter how educated results in certain “blind spots” in different areas. I certainly can think of one or two such past blind spots in my life too 😂 Two questions: 1. I imagine your existing videos have largely addressed the hopelessness of Germany’s situation in 1945 but clearly my true comprehension of such realities is still wanting. If you have any specific recommendations as to videos to rewatch or other resources, I would be eager to know them. 2. I have always wondered if Hitler’s suicide should be interpreted as him as “giving up” or if rather it should more be interpreted as a man - who deluded so many into his cult - ultimately fell prey to his own delusion and thus his suicide might have been rationalized (not that such a term can be truly applied to a suicidal person) as a sort of “sacrifice” to thus deliver his followers from their struggle and usher in heaven on earth. Is there any evidence to support the mentality Hitler took towards ending his life? Not that we should generally want to dwell too much on an evil, deranged man’s thoughts but at the same time, I think it very much DOES benefit humanity if we can understand cult behavior so as to try to prevent it in the future. As always, my greatest respect.
Citino is an excellent historian and his books are a great read. But as you point out, the Soviet/German war was of a different nature and there was a case of “true-believership” on the German side. (By that I mean a religious faith of some sort in Hitler and his person and struggle.) Moreover, fighting till the end was a part of both typical German history and part of the “special lesson” they felt they learned from doing the opposite in the First World War. Hitler’s mission and Nazism itself was just an encapsulation of that belief and Hiller himself was a frequent harkener back to the virtual miracle that saved Frederick the Great from a heretofore almost victorious alliance against him. But you are correct that Hitler had codified all this around a distinctly German “chosen people” and “nation”. (Which ought to say something about why the Jews were considered public enemy number one.)
Do you think the events following WW1 cast a shadow in people's minds ? Better to die than go through that humiliation again ? It was very much within living memory.
> The REAL Reason Germany Kept Fighting For the same reason that the USSR continued to fight in 1941-42, Japan in 1945 and Russia today. People continue to fight even in the most senseless and doomed wars as long as the totalitarian/authoritarian state can force them to fight (with any means). Because for totalitarian rulers, winning or losing a war is a matter of their survival, not as a political system, but as human beings. That is why Germany in 1918 and France in 1940 did not fight to the end - their political system was different and their political elite did not expect a guaranteed scaffold. Man continues to fight because he is "atomized" in totalitarian state. He's always "alone". Even if you do not want to fight, you have no one to tell it to, since any of your old combat comrades can be an informer and hand you over to the "commissar". And this is guaranteed torture, prison camp labor or death for you and repression for your family. Therefore, no matter how strange it may sound, voluntary surrender or desertion for a soldier of a totalitarian country is much more dangerous than the fighting itself. So you literally have to fight to the end to have any hope of surviving. That is why the workers of Japan and Germany continued to work dutifully in their factories after the devastating bombings and fire tornadoes. Because you can hide from Allied bombs, but there is no escape from Tokkō or the Gestapo.
I applaud your thinking outside the box as it were - embracing a more philosophical, esoteric understanding that contributes to the underlying reasons why Germany kept fighting. Being a philosophy nut and majoring in it at university as well as studying German history ( especially ontology, existentialism and romanticism ) I can see for myself the Zeitgeist that evolved and existed in continental Europe since the enlightenment - the new ideas and concepts like Darwinism, Nationalism, Communism that had been straining to break free. The liberal revolutions of 1848 are a sign that these ideas were attempting to find a place in society. The idea of struggle as the very essence of life itself was written about extensively, notably Goethe, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and others which the Nazi’s adopted and co-opted into their own loose ideals.
Too simplistic, if it were true then the 20 July plotters would not have planned to make peace with the Western Allies as soon as possible. Although, they may have thought to continue the war with Russia, it would not have worked. No, the reason answer to why most soldiers fought on, was because they were fighting for their fellow soldiers, their friends! Their band of brothers!
Yep. Just browsed through many posts and this was the only mention that without that piece of blind (bad) luck history would have been very different. Left unmentioned in this video is the fact their were many military leaders trying to end the war.(well, until they all got shot). Didn't fit into the argument I guess.
Brother, it was posted 2 minutes ago and it's 20 minutes long... how can you write such a comment? 😅 P.S. And to clarify, I just recently subscriced to this channel and I've binged-watched more than a dozen videos, I really like this channel and all that, but still...
I was tempted to put more into this video, but unfortunately I was ill for most of last week, so it's not as "full" of sources as it normally would be. That's why I said I'll do some follow-up videos on this topic in the future. Let me know what you think about all this. It's honestly a new concept to me too - I had never thought to see the Third Reich in this way before.
Ever since I criticized YT for allowing propaganda like "the dumbest story ever told" etc. my comments always get buried. Anyway, pls make a video about the Reichstag Fire some day.
Ever heard of the world of Kreig or the Cult of Sacrifice?
Otherwise. I can't help but notice more similarities with other Socialist ideologies. Just different interpretations to the same end.
@@calumdeighton If you go there it actually gets really deep - and dark and it can't be discussed here. Anyway, I can drop some hints. You know about the Thule Society and the dark and occult obsessions of many prominent National Socialists. Well, "plain" socialism basically also has a "Thule Society", it's just not called that, but essentially it's the same with the same type of symbolism. Ever wondered why all these socialist groups use the symbols they use? Well, they actually all represent the same planetary deity and are deeply Pagan. And as "neo-pagans" if you will they of course also have certain rituals that require certain sacrifices and sometimes they of course also have big rituals that require big sacrifices...
BJ was getting BJs from his next wife while almost certainly on coke. The whole of Westminster is a drugs den.
Let's see in 10 years of excess deaths. All around the world. From what I am hearing it will be in next generation.
Why did Hitler keep saying a thousand year Reich? He's saying it's eventually going to fail? Why wouldn't he say something like the permanent Reich?
You can see this depicted over and over again in the film Downfall. All those who commit suicide at the end aren't doing so to avoid punishment, but because they genuinely believed that there was no reason for continued existence if the Reich were to perish. They saw the end of the Reich as the end of history, and they didn't want to experience what world would exist past it. They really saw themselves as the last Elf on a hill surrounded by a sea of Orcs.
That explains why the fanatics kept fighting, why live in a world when you'll be ruled by alleged subhumans? National Socialism was a death or glory ideology.
...and the Joo clownworld we live in now proves they were right.
you can see this depicted today in Ukraine fighting Russia to the last man despite them knowing they will lose in the end
@@josephstalin6647 actually... Your down syndrome leader is playing that game which has no outs.
@@josephstalin6647
Cope
A quote I remember from Hitler gave me a clue as to why they continued to fight. Addressing Germany's mounting casualties as the war turned against them he said:
"What is life? The individual must die anyway. Life is the nation."
Chilling when you think about it's logical conclusion. Thanks Tik
My Great Grandfather fought on the Eastern Front. The main reason that the regular soldiers continued to fight instead of just surrendering was to buy time for the civilians, especially if your own family was among them, to flee from the Red Army. Those who were caught were in many cases simply murdered. Quite a few relatives of mine died that way.
Did the Russians send them to be gassed to death at concentration camps? Or did the Russian death squads have them dig their own graves before shooting them?
And there was always that counterbalance of the threat of being killed by your own gestapo, sandwiching you with the tender mercies of surrender to the Red Army gives very little opportunity but to stand and fight.
@@obsidianjane4413 The ordinary people didn't care about the Gestapo too much. The real threat was always the Russians.
@@theholyinquisition389 I wouldn't expect anything else. When waging war, after pillaging your enemy's land, the key is to win, so he cannot return the favour. Germany failed, and so paid the price.
No, they believed in the cult. We saw this recently during Conjob-19 - like Hitler, Conjob-19 was also a cult.
When I wrote my final paper in university I looked at "reason for fighting in the war" of German soldiers in WW1 and WW2. And I agree with you: in countless letters home soldiers wrote about the necessity to continue fighting/struggling as not doing so would automatically lead to toal and utter destruction of Germany. As you said this is the glue that kept things together. And it glued all these other points together.
One interesting other point I'd like to make here: the believe in destiny. Frederick II., King of Prussia during the 7-years war, was on the brink of defeat when the Russian Tzarina died and her son made peace with Prussia, being a great admirer of Frederick. The death of her was often called "the wonder of the House of Brandenburg". It had become somewhat of a national myth in Germany. The idea that destiny would once again come to safe Germany (Prussia = Germany, another myth) was compelling especially knowing that president Roosevelt was very ill. In fact when he died Goebbels told Hitler "The Tzarina just died!"...
And they were right...Just remember the Morgenthau Plan he devised in 1944 for the post-war Germany...total destruction of the German industry, reducing it to a small farm country with most of its 1939 territories annexed by its neighboring countries. More than enough to make every German citizen fight to the last bullet.
I wouldn’t say the Germans are wrong. Have you seen the state of Germany?
@@jedbex7070 - Yes, and I see the same everywhere...Just look at the USA...look at the UK...look at France...at Russia....the whole world is in chaos and turmoil ! It's the sign of our times. The human society is in a process of violent change for the better. Things will improve drastically in no more than 10 years.
@@jedbex7070Germanistan.
Mashallah 🤲
@@jedbex7070
Ich denke nicht, dass die Gedanken des deutschen Volkes und der deutschen Soldaten falsch waren.
The so-called Versailles Peace Treaty of 1919 did not seek to create peace in Europe, but rather to humiliate the Germans and ruin the German Empire. Even the extremely harsh conditions of the “peace treaty” were not enough for the French. With the occupation of the Ruhr in 1923, they wanted to deal the German Reich an economic death blow and annex the German Rhineland. Several attempts by the German Reich government to bring about an understanding with France and to make the reparation payments affordable were rejected by France. French hatred knew no bounds. He created political chaos and mass poverty in Germany and thus supported the rise of National Socialism.
I am not a supporter of National Socialism and its ideology, but the fight against “Versailles” was justified. According to general legal opinion, a contract based on the lie of war guilt and under which the German signature was extorted is invalid.
Freikorps ahead
th-cam.com/video/ZYHZzVayPpg/w-d-xo.html
There were various reasons for the German soldiers' perseverance in the Second World War. The soldiers were certainly aware that the victors wanted to destroy Germany and make the German population fair game. The British and American bombing raids on German cities had the primary goal of killing the German civilian population. The Red Army invaded the German Reich looting, raping and murdering. After the war, around 15 million Germans were expelled from their homeland under brutal circumstances. Around 3 million lost their lives. The fears of the Wehrmacht soldiers were subsequently confirmed. The fact that Germany did not disappear completely from the map certainly had to do with the break of the unequal alliance between the Western Allies and the Soviets and the subsequent Cold War. Now the Germans in East and West were sought-after allies by their respective occupying powers. This gave German post-war policy freedom.
All German cities looked like Berlin
th-cam.com/video/VgDmDKkTn20/w-d-xo.html
One of my great-uncles was a young pilot in the German Air Force. His last mission was in East Prussia at the beginning of 1945. It was clear to him that the war could no longer be won. It was also clear to him that he would not return from this mission alive. It was a kamikaze mission. His motivation was to stop the Soviet invaders and allow the German civilian population to escape west. His body lies somewhere in East Prussian soil. His grave is in my heart.
TIK is one of the only history channels that doesn't have overwhelmingly loud audio in their videos, and has a way of doing these videos in which, even when my mind is overstimulated or stressed, I can put the videos on in the background and relax.
Thank you once again, TIK! Even in occasional disagreement, you give me a relaxing, passive learning source for my everyday entertainment.
Agree with you...but I have a curious question to ask...Considering TIK's English, what country do you think he is from ? I'm not quite sure but I would bet he is Irish.
@@rainbowseeker5930 Do you mean what country is TIK from? He's 100% english.
@@Ickie71 - Thank you...I would have sworn his accent was Irish.
I think it's right that ideology plays a large part in how Germany ended the war.
However the fact that Himmler who was more committed to many of these ideas compared to even Hitler, was attempting to negotiate with the allies would contradict this.
I would say the main motivation for many millions to fight, given how quickly people turned against nazism in defeat, was the threat of the Soviets.
The eastern front was a long list of war crimes on both sides and i definitely think the view of many within Germany was to keep pushing on both fronts with the hope of forcing a more positive ceasefire from the west.
Potentially protecting themselves from Nuremberg and their place in power.
Honestly, Himmler was an absolute lunatic. I would expect him to be at the extreme end of any ideology, as long as he got to see the world burn.
I'm not denying that it all fell apart in the final days or weeks, but even then Himmler seeking peace with the West could be explained by seeing the Soviets as the bigger threat. There was also the idea that the "Anglo-Saxon" nations would join with Germany to fight the Soviets. So this isn't necessarily a counter to the case.
@@TheImperatorKnight And it wasn't an impossible outcome. Certainly Churchill wanted such a thing. I wonder how history might have changed without Roosevelt favoring Stalin as he did. Bloodier short term but the possibilities seem endless.
If you consider that >90% of the Germans captured at Stalingrad died and never returned home, you have a good reason to keep fighting (not saying that I approve of it).
@@balazslengyel6950 Tik has covered that this high death rate was an exemption likely caused by malnutrition. The overall PoW death was closer to 30%. Not great, but not an automatic death sentence.
I think their lack of surrender was more likely due to them anticipating retribution for the crimes they know they did.
To me, the reason why Germany kept fighting is understandable through the lense of Optimistic Nihilism. After a certain point, there's no point in giving up, so why even try quitting? I gave up years ago, but I eventually gave up on giving up so now here I stand just flowing through life with no real drive to continue, nor quit. Perhaps the Wehrmacht had a similar philosophical crisis.
Idk civilians in Germany would probably find a point in surrendering
That's a very interesting take on this matter. If you don't mind me asking, have you never found anything you could really believe in? Not necessarily politics, but anything else?
What idiot like you is just gonna surrender moron? It’s like DIEversity it has never worked throughout history.
OK et pour le cas japonais ? Pourquoi le Japon a continué le combat après la capitulation allemande alors que le Japon n'avait plus de marine de guerre, plus de matière première, plus d'usine, plus de marine marchande, sa population civile et militaire en quasi famine ?
Kml
@@michaelkovacic2608 I believe in love. That one day, I'll find someone. This has always been my dream, to become a father. Though, I'm 21 and have never been on an actual date, I still find joy in the prospect of raising a family and leaving a legacy that proves that I actually existed. This, coupled with my duty to protect my mother and brother are what keep me going.
I find it weird that this has become lost knowledge. I well remember in Jr High and HS back in the 70s this concept of the "national struggle" and the fundamental belief of the average German that life had no meaning outside National Socialism being taught. In fact, it was often taught as part of a fuller discussion on why such ideologies were so dangerous. We were introduced to Bonhoeffer, among others so that we could understand how group identity based thinking leads directly to such outcomes.
But then the education system committed suicide...
Same here... one particular history teacher i had was very good and tried to give us the unbiased objective truth but sadly its all one sided today..Public education has outgrown its purpose... IT NEEDS TO DIE.. homeschool your kids folks and get them to watch actual proper historians and learn them to think critically.
It's gone out of fashion academically because there's plenty of evidence to suggest that few True Believers remained in the last year or so of the war.
Terror, traditional Prussian militarism, fear of Soviet vengeance - many factors informed German resistance.
The great irony is that at the end it was foreign SS who were Hitler's last defenders, while German armies streamed westward.
The education system didn't commit suicide, socialists and communists took it over, and many other levers of most governments in the western world.
We saw this recently during Conjob-19 - like Hitler, Conjob-19 was also a cult.
If you write the history of the past, you control the future.
Kampf can also be translated as 'battle' which is a more intense form of the concept. The Germans didn't see this as mere a 'struggle' but more as a a 'battle' for their very existence/ Translating kampf to struggle downplays what they were actually thinking..
its not battle but rather fight.
Der Kampf is the fight. To fight is kämpfen. Battle is Schlacht in German.
Agreed. It´s both "struggle" and "fight" at the same time
they weren't wrong you know. nowadays there are almost no german kids in german schools...
@@crayclips980kampf means all 3 battle,fight, and struggle just depends on the situation and how and when it’s used
@@niknitro8751This. This constant translation as "struggle" misses the point and leads to unclear and unnecessarily complex explanations. It just describes social darwinism. As the central organizational principle, that human civilization rests upon. Hitler explained different traits of the German people as a whole by them being a mixture of different influences from other, "high value" European people (e.g. German "Gemütlichkeit" coming from the Alpine race, German artistic geniuses coming from the part of German "blood" which had mixed with the Mediterranean peoples etc. AND toughness being attributable to the "Nordic" component. As he painted a scenario in which the Germans as people would be completely destroyed via cultural and genetic dilution over time, because of being supposedly the last "uncorrupted" European civilization currently able to counter the threats he identified, this was his ideological reason to strike first. Anticipating a scenario in which all the "corrupted" would turn on them, he reasoned the very future of (western) civilization was resting on their shoulders and that they had to, at least for the duration of the imminent age of decisive battles and fight for survival, increase the Nordic "component" and preach toughness etc. Jews were identified to be the ultimate problem and thus had to "go". Were the German people to simply give up, that would mean annihilation, even over a long, "false" period of peace (along with European/general civilization) and/or if they lost, they would prove to be unfit for survival by their own rules, and thus deserve to perish. Ideologicallly it was impossible to just stop fighting.
As a german i think my ancestors fought on because they didnt want to have a new 1918 with all bad consequences which followed. They fought on in the hope to get a fair peace treaty instead of unconditional surrender when the allied home front collapses because of too high losses.
I think you are right about, didn't want to repeat 1918.
You have a good point friend. Article 231 at Versailles was totally unconscionable.
@@markmewordz6860 no. See Tik’s video on this subject; I believe it is contained within the reasons for the NSDAP coming to power discussion.
The War Guilt clause was a total myth insofar that it promoted German guilt for the war. However, the propaganda to the German people was such that the clause seemed as if it did in fact cause Germany to concede guilt. As such, you may be correct.
As a German I know my ancestors fought on because they are very courageous and game. They never let anything get them down. Having lived in canada for many years I can really see the difference. Most canadians are lazy, immoral and have no inner strength. They are held back and bogged down by the "7 deadly sins". But canadians become very jealous and angry when Germans outclass them and outperform them, which happens all the time.
I am certain there are as many reasons as there were soldiers. Struggle is surely part of it.
"Enjoy the war, the peace will be terrible!"
Or in German: "Genieße den Krieg der Frieden wird furchtbar sein!"
Is a gallows humor quote I've often seen attributed to the Germans toward the end of the war.
Thought provoking and constructive video, as always!
70 odd years later I think they were right.....
@@alg7115 Wrong. Germany today has the strongest economy in Europe, thus peace did good to Germany.
@@dragosstanciu9866 That economy is currently being deindustrialized while they can't do anything.
@@dragosstanciu9866 the parades got worse tho
@@baceniracun4494 Deindustrialized? How so?
Fear of being Imprisoned by the Soviets and the notion that Germany had capitulated in the First world war whilst "on the verge of Victory" contributed to soldiers fighting long after there was any reasonable hope of Victory.
Hitler's conviction that he had been saved by divine providence during operation Valkyrie, and his belief that the war could be won by a superweapon also didn't help.
That last belief would have been correct if the Third Reich had been on the verge of producing an atomic bomb. The threat to Britain would have been enough for a negotiated peace in the West at least.
Fear is never a good motivator. Fear of being killed by Soviets vs fear of getting killed by Soviets. Nope. They were men. They decided to stand and fight till the end.
@@aleksazunjic9672 great point,yet Millions did surrender,even to the Red`s
Had germany made an atomic bomb , even after D Day , they might just have been able to negotiate a peace
@Andy Manning..You make a persuasive argument there bothe of you... but I think like many things in reality it's not that simple... its more probably a combination of factors which lead to the germans fighting to the death... misinformation, fanatical devotion to the reich...and fear of bieng caught by Soviets and what they'd do to them when caught...also probably some were motivated into it with promises of extra food or fame after if the reich had won.......That's just my thoughts although the may not be right.
A contributing factor could have been a case of the entire German society suffering from the sunk cost fallacy: they had a few good years of huge, impressive victories and, as a gambler who has already lost a lot of money after having a few successes in the past, they couldn't pull out of the war and cut their losses. It is generally difficult to cut the losses. In other words: so much was sacrificed, that "those sacrifices couldn't have been in vain, therefore the struggle must continue".
there was no option for nazi germany to rest on their victories and ride into the sunset. never. the moment hitler became kanzler, it was germany against the rest of the world. restless victory or defeat, and not so because of hitler.
I totally agree. I think it is that simple.
You just described most wars. Look at the US Civil War, for example. Could have all ended at Bull Run in 1861 but then you get Shiloh, and Antietem, and Gettysburg, and the Wilderness and so forth. Deaths in the hundreds of thousands and destruction of entire cities by 1865. And combatants raised with similar ideological beliefs. But ever greater hatred and fanaticism until the struggle cannot be maintained no matter how much you hate the enemy.
@@MonsieurMoustachio "it was germany against the rest of the world" - you forgot that Germany had many allies. Also many nations were neutral.
@@wendelloreilly8676 The South weren't the aggressors in the Civil War.
I think that Hitler's biggest life purpose was to avenge the defeat of WW1 and many Germans couldn't stomach a similar event, so they kept fighting because they were not going to admit defeat without being forced to. The belief that WW1 was not lost on the battlefield probably drove this.
Very interesting take on the topic. Feel free to dive further into this topic. Thanks for the reference. I appreciate it.
Wow its you😮
I had seen the quote before how Hitler thought if Germany couldn't win the war it ought to not exist anymore, but that didn't explain why everyone else kept fighting. This makes so much more sense now. Thanks TIK.
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate Tik's "evil voice"?
My dude should voice an evil henchman in an animated movie!
You know, if anyone wants to hire me for such a role, I would do it.
I did notice the subtle distinction between Madman Hitler Voice and Just Plain Evil Goering Voice
Not just the voice his eyes take on a different shade of evil.
his "national socialist" voice is fantastic and makes me laugh every time he does it
ok, now the only detail missing would be the Gerrrman rrroling RRRR. The hardest sound to make for a native speaker of English, maybe (it´s just as hard the other way round)
This whole video felt like a "well duh" for me. As a German I kept thinking that your conclusion is kind of obvious, it's what almost all speeches I'm aware of are about. It's the core of the national socialist ideology to fight until the end. The total war speech and all lay it out I think.
My understanding of this question was originally shaped by a story about my grandfather. In 1944 was helped avoiding the Gestapo by a SS-guy from his village that himself voluntarily was on his way to the eastern front. The circumstances aren't as important as the SS-guys reasoning for going there (previously working in KZ Flossenbürg). "They will never forgive us this". In my understanding of the sentiment at the time this left him two options: 1. be weak and await his fate or 2. be strong and fight until the end. He didn't go east to win the war at that point, he went there to fight and presumably knowing he'd die.
the annoying as a german is the stupid arrogance where people get educated by how the nazis Indoctrinated and think they are immune and then go blindly doing everything the state wants from you. seriously most people focus way more on nazi bad then follow another cult leader who changed his magic tricks a bit . this is the downfall of religion that are just replaced with politcal Ideology that cannot be questioned
Yup, I feel the same way (also German). I can imagine though that foreigners can't get behind this as easily.
the normal soldiers fought for other reasons, while the SS fought for nazism
Very interesting.
@@weybye91 l think so too.
The quote from Fury I think is the best. When one of the characters asks why they keep fighting, and another answers "Wouldn't you?"
I hate when people use the word “cult” to describe an ideology they don’t agree with.
ikr, imagine calling pluto-, I mean, democracy "a cult".
Dear TIK. As a son of a former Officer in Spanish Blue Division sent to fight in Eastern Front, I can support your argument. My father went to “struggle” against Communism. The Spaniards who stayed in Berlin after the Blue Division was sent home were there to “struggle”. Death was unimportant (!!). If Fascist Spaniards fought so hard to be part of History, imagine Nazi Germans.
May God forgive them, facing death without fear is a great good deed.
"People should know when they are conquered." Would you Quintus? Would I?" ---- Gladiator. Most historians never heard a shot fired in anger. They look at topics in history as a beginning, a middle and an end. They ask the same question about Lee after Gettysburg, The British after Saratoga, The Japanese after Guadalcanal. Why did they keep on fighting? But then are in awe of The Yankees after Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, The Romans after Cannae, The Soviets after Minks and Smolensk. History is made up of what men were and seldom goes as they had planned. They were living this not reading about it fifty years later. You might as well ask why Joe Louis got up off the canvas in the fourth round after Max Schmeling knocked him down. Well Joe lost that fight so why did he go eight more rounds? Why didn't he realize with a time machine that he was going to lose? Microcosm but same idea on a grander national scale like war.
But this is just too high for people who want those REAL answers, you know...
Oh, I think soldiers know when things aren't going their way and getting worse. When your food ration keeps shrinking, when ammunition supply slows to a trickle, when you are being shelled day and night and continually retreating, when you realize that you only know the names of a third or fewer of the fellow soldiers in your unit, when you realize that your commanders don't even bother trying to lie to you about the dire tactical and strategic situation, etc. etc. etc. Yes, the soldier knows full well that his side is doomed. No sentient soldier would have failed to understand the situation.
@@chuckschillingvideos Yes, I do not think that was up for debate in his video or in my statement. The question was why did they keep fighting if they knew all that. Yes solider know when the war has turned against them. "The prevailing words were lets just take as many as we can to the grave with us." Sgt. Hans Herbst 116th Panzer Div. "They call it The Fatherland in their terminology. So you are going to fight a hell of a lot harder than you would under normal circumstances. I was really amazed at the tenacity of them, it was terrible the amount of resistance they were putting up. They knew they were going to be killed. You knew they were going to be killed but they fought on anyway." John Hale Sherbrooke Fusiliers. Both men are veterans of the battle of the Hochwald Gap 1945.
You are fighting for the man next to you and in some weird sense the unique personal idea that you have as your home. Not ideals you can put into words. Not for the stinking party, the culture of the west or for the leader. As one Confederate put it when asked by is Yankee captors why he was still fighting in late 1864. "Cause you are down here and we don't want you here." Men like that and men like the Germans in 1945 can not be conquered only killed, at great cost.
Well, the Soviets is different case, no one offered them surrender... Barbarossa proposed occupation of country up to Urals. Plan Ost would made slavs German slaves. It also started with Mein Kampf.
Also Soviets after Smolensk still had massive reserve, Kiev was not fallen yet. And battle for Smolensk wasn't an easy walk, it was 2 moths of bloodbath. So nothing was decided yet. If Soviets lost Stalingrad than it would be decided...
@@alexzero3736 You mean the Russian people would have just stopped fighting is they had lost Stalingrad? That being said then why did the German's keep fighting after Stalingrad? I was talking about about soldiers not the guys in charge, not the arm chair generals and not historians with what ifs. The Soviets were in the same position in 1941-1942 as the Germans in 1943-1945 being offered unconditional surrender is the same as not even offering your opponent to surrender.
This video expands our understanding. As you stated, the answer was in front of us all the time but we didn't see it--until you put it together. The 'cult' not only explains the continued German struggle in the face of defeat, but also the underlying psyche for starting the war in the first place. Really, it appears that Lebensraum, etc. were really rationalizations.
This video reminded me back when I used to read Martin Armstrong's blog. He always wrote about how the Germans were never conquered by Rome. By not being Romanized thru defeat. They kept what made them Germans. Arguably until the pacification after WW2. Maybe more so in West Germany then in East. But am no expert there.
Lebensraum wasn't JUST a rationalization... it was a genuine motive... reason.
A rationalization is generally something that happens AFTER doing something. Not before. It's something that people do in order to try to justify something that they have ALREADY decided to do, at the least.
It's the "cult" thing... but don't treat that like something stupid or silly.
That's some POWERFUL crap, Jim... VERY similar to opioids.
Humans are HERD animals... and we are hard-wired for it... to WANT it... and generally-speaking, to NEED it... and yes, that applies to atheists, too, among others, but ESPECIALLY to anyone who is inclined to be or become (or remain) a socialist.
If you call it a "cult", people are far too likely to just dismiss it... and think that THEY are immune to it, because THEY are too smart... which is BS.
The psychology of it is EXACTLY the same thing that causes people to join TEAMS... and yes, GANGS... and, yes, MOBS... and, yes, to "gather 'round the water cooler" and discuss their favorite new TV show or movie... it's "bonding" over a shared interest, belief, etc.
The "vaccine" isn't being smart. You don't need to be very smart.
What you DO need to prevent it, is to just be AWARE... and to be argumentative, or disagreeable, or individualistic enough to say 'no'.
The more "agreeable" a person is, the more likely they are to fall for it, in particular, THIS "cult"... socialism, for EXACTLY that reason... which is also the reason that they treat someone like J K Rowling as a TRAITOR, rather than simply someone who disagrees with them... because JKR "betrayed" the "cult" of modern feminism... when she basically said that trans-women can't be a "part of her cult/herd/tribe of women".
Said as if the banking cartels weren't the driving force behind all wars and revolutions, starting with the French Revolution.
@@BaronEvola123 ??????
@@BaronEvola123 Okay... I can deduce that you hate bankers... but bankers generally DON'T like wars.
Wars tend to be BAD for their business, and EXTREMELY high risk.
Their assets tend to get blown up for one thing. They get labeled as "bourgeoisie" for another thing, and then get introduced to that certain "madame" which is really sharp for another... or a firing squad or hangman's noose as in the Russian Revolution.
For yet another thing, wars tend to cause inflation... which is bad for their existing cash-on-hand, since it devalues existing currency.
And revolutions are even worse than external wars.
Bankers like STABILITY... and there is nothing LESS stable than a revolution.
I had a relative from Rastenburg. At age 14-15 he was told that he had to fight to the death or he will be killed by his German superiors. It is hard to imagine him fighting in the last battles for Berlin.
Rastenburg? Now it's in Poland no?
@@bunnystrasse Now it is. Kętrzyn
Town in Poland
Honestly, this is hard to believe. My grandpa wanted to volunteer at age 15 to defend his homeland that is now part of Poland. But they sent him home. There were many volunteers like him. And noone needed to be convinced at gun point.
@@brownie830419 I did not write that he had to be convinced at gunpoint. He did not need to be told anything but the older superiors wanted to be emphatic and make sure that the most that could fight would fight. No, Werner Fenske was fearless. I knew him well and he was a very kind man. I'm glad that you mentioned the age. 15 rings a bell more than 14. But many even younger fought. He died in Florida. I was not notified of his death. I once had the birthdays of many of my German relatives. My grandfather born in 1896 kept a record of his nieces, nephews and other relatives. I put his telephone book in the garbage. It had all of the birthdays of people that no longer exist. Werner worked for British Airways and was well liked. His last post on Facebook was in 2013.
@@bunnystrasse Rastenburg, East Prussia
This town is now known as Kętrzyn and is located in the Masurian Lake District of northeastern Poland.
what great insight. all of your vids are at minimum entertaining, beyond that they are informative and most importantly thought provoking. Your vids have led to significant discussions between me and my friends and family. Thank you for your hard work.
Hi TIK, in my opinion the reason why the soldiers and civilians fight on especially after the invading of Russia is much more simpler.
I once asked my grandpa the same question 30 years ago. He said that after 41/42 ever the lowest ranking soldier have heard, watched or even participarted in one of the attrocities commited by the Wehrmacht, Party and SS. They knew that there will be no mercy from the Allied and especially from the Russians who seeked for revance. So all they could do, is to fight on for their own lives and that of their families at home.
In my opinion that is also the reason why so many high ranking officers fought to the end. Only in the last 1-2 month when it was clear that the allies do not shoot POWs on the spot and the Wehrmacht soldiers found out that they could blame the SS and the Generals could blame the Nazis for all the attrocities to stay alive, mass surrendering starts at the West front.
so there u have it form the horses mouth. I have talked with many German Vets of WW2 and they all say the same thing. That is that they all were afraid of what would happen after all they had done and seen. I talked to one man 40 yr ago who said they all knew men or men who knew men, who had gotten out of camps the Russians sent them to so they knew what awaited them. After the western allies landed in France many I talked to said they tried very hard to get some place to surrender the them rather then to die on the Eastern front or be taken their and live in one of those camps that were just as bad as the ones the Germans set up.
It is funny what u can get an old man to tell u if u spend a little time in a bar with him buying the drinks and just talking to him on trooper to another.
Yes I am a trooper (VN '70, !01st)
So what they were doing was fighting for their lives not ideology
Just to say but when u look at so called men of letters they all see life as a struggle either man v man or man v sin I say dont give them any time none of them really know anything of life and what the common man struggles for
What does the common man struggle for?
An easy one.
To stay alive nothing more then to just live and do so with some comfort Not much do we ask for just some
There's also the fact that nor fighting, or expressing defeatism would get you a bullet, or noose.
I agree with that point. Also the German soldier was having his family, his wife, daughter or girlfriend on his mind. What would happen to them, if the hordes from the East will get them? That also explains why defections and surrenders of German soldiers were so much more common on the western than on Eastern front. They knew that the Russians would be merciless, as Wehrmacht and the SS were cruel in the SU.
This is absurd, the allies committed just as many 'atrocities' and war crimes.
@@winstonsmith8482 Maybe, but what the Nazis did with the Jews, Forced Labour, the Slavs etc. was not even comparable and the German soldiers knew deep in their heart that it was ethicaly & moral much much worse what they did.
As a German, Iʼd like to correct some of your German pronounciation mistakes:
„Volk“ is not said Wōlk, but Fŏlk.
„Führer“ is not said Fjurar
Fjurar is my favourite. :)
mein fjurer
I like (as a parody) the "Foohra" from the Donald Duck cartoon, or Chaplins "Phooey".
Dead language. Nobody cares.
I’ve always gone with the fear of reprisal, protection of the homeland, and the fact that the allies were demanding unconditional surrender. Hitler did say if he couldn’t get the oil he needed in 1942 he’d need to end the war but couldn’t end it if it was to be unconditional. But this - though incredibly obvious when said - barely gets a look in for the most part so this has definitely shifted my focus. Fascinating as always.
Well I can talk from my family point of view that came from Silesia that now belongs to Poland. The main reason to fight on was to protect your homecountry from 1944 onwards - as far as i can tell from my relatives and their stories. The russians raped and murdered a lot of people and the last thing you do is just surrender and say: ok take my home, and everything I have. Its a mixed feeling of hope and fear and I would guess for the normal person back then the propaganda and the fact that you didnt know exactly how the war was going. All the people in the town were my grandparends grew up were absolutely shocked when they heard that the Red Army was coming near as they tought the front was stable and there was no real threat.
@@ASMR.GentleMan A very sad comment but I thank you for the reply as it was very interesting and true.
As a ww2 nerd and someone interested in the vast perspectives and information about the said war, this channel is a gold mine for someone like me and I've invested lots of my time into this channel and the return investment has been well worth it.
What do you think about the greatest story never told ?
Wow, this is eye opening. You see, I live in Europe and speak multiple European languages. I worked with multiple German and Swiss companies as well as with Anglosaxons, and it always struck me how different these cultures behave. Now I see that a big portion of it is inherited from previous regimes.
And what "previous regimes" might we be influenced by?
We haven't had a regime change as such since 1688
On a tangent... Saddam Hussein's told his FBI interrogator that his favorite book was "The Old Man and the Sea" by Hemingway, precisely because he was so enamoured with the idea of "struggle", and that was a factor in why he didn't cut a deal that could have saved his life way before 2003. This video reminded me of that and might be worth for TIK to make a video about.
TIK your work is actually so fantastic. I love the depth at which you go. Other history channels, while fine & serviceable most of the time, really don't end up being all that fulfilling.
I am in no way an expert on WWII history but I watch a lot of these kinds of videos and TIK is generally the most honest and consistent.
Very interesting to see you come up with a psychological answer on this one, as this field is, imho, often overlooked in military/political analysis. I think it could also provide some interesting insight to understand the industrial revolution paradox (i.e. the fact that it brought great political turmoil despite an overall enrichment of the population). That Mosley video you did recently was really nice yet I feel a few more explanations could be provided by including the whole 'death of god' parameter into it.
Anyways, love your work, and hope you're doing well
Regards
for years now ive explained germanies collapse so quickly after hitler self deleted as because "the spell was broken". it was clear hitler was a cult leader that had beguiled a nation. this pretty much confirms what ive been saying all along. it makes so much sense now. thanks for your research on the matter.
Wrong conclusion. It was because they were fighting the Red Army. You do not surrender to the Red Army. Do you even know how they got that name? Not a gram of honor or chivalry between them. Thsts how. You dont surrender to an enemy like that. You fight them to the death.
@@ryanparker4996 im talking about german resistance in the light of obvious defeat. it didnt stop until hitlers end broke the spell. thats why so many units gave up the fight finally.
@@thurin84 You are a dumbass
I've been following you for a year now and have watched most of your videos over the course of that time. However, your more recent videos attempting to explain National Socialism and it's philosophy has been quite the adventure. I find myself viewing this series several times and have ordered many of the books you've suggested. Needless to say, you have opened my eyes to a whole new way of understanding this topic, and for that I think you. Moreover, I am sharing this knowledge with others with mixed results and for some, I (we) have peeked their interest.
History usually rhymes, too. You can also see this with NHS doctors and nurses. They knew that they had participated in a lie, and that their compliance had imposed great harm on others. It started back in March 2020 when oldies who were deemed 'bed blockers' were euthanized for the greater social good. Then came the arm-spearing (code). They must have known that the damage caused by the Britney Spears & the Boosters was far worse than Conjob-19, but by this stage they were already in double-down mode. Like Hitler, Conjob-19 was also a cult.
Piqued*
Remember, the extermination of the chosenites is a proven hoax.
The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton
Hitler was a crystal meth addict
I've had this thought for a while now, as I've been watching your videos for about a year or two and contemplating the current state of the world, and this seems to be bone-chillingly correct: "The line between ideology and religion is incredibly thin." Sounds like something a philosopher would say. If anyone knows if one such had said or wrote something along these lines previously, please let me know so I can give credit in the future.
Look at the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The motivations of Putin and his adherents only are comprehensible if one understands their view of "Russian civilization". He is not a madman, just a true believer in nonsense.
Thank you, Tik for examining a difficult set of questions. Best wishes for continued success. From your Friends of London, Ontario, Canada.
Thank you, TIKhistory.
Compare and contrast with Japan's worship of its Emperor and belief that their triumph was ordained by heaven. MHV's interview of D. M. Giangreco several years ago was a real eye-opener to me. They were willing to lose 40 million people (half the population of the Home Islands)--mostly underequipped civilians impressed into service--in order to kill a million GIs, because they truly believed that America's will would break and they would get most of what they wanted at the armistice table. And the only reason Hirohito surrendered was because his internal police had warned that if half the population died, there was a non-zero chance the other half would revolt and overthrow the whole dynasty. The first Bomb wasn't enough: it was the *second* Bomb, together with US propaganda that there were hundreds more Bombs ready to go (there weren't) that *bluffed* Hirohito into taking his secret golden parachute (that the dynasty would be allowed to continue despite the unconditional surrender) and running for the exit, despite a number of generals wanting to fight to the last civilian.
It was the impact of the atomic bombs along with the invasion by the Soviet Union that split the War Cabinet and put the decision to the Emperor, who decided to surrender.
Its also the mindset of other cultures. Living to a ripe old age in a rocking chair on the porch is not a universal value. The idea the country can and should go on in perpetuity is not universal. Our shrines and temples are in marble and stone - permanent. The primary shrine at Iza in Japan is torn down and rebuilt every 20 years. Sure enough tearing down one Japan allowed another to grow.
@@jackee-is-silent2938 _'... along with the invasion by the Soviet Union'_
The Soviets invaded Manchuria by ground. The bulk of the Japanese army were in China and not in Manchuria. Manchuria (and Korea) was held mostly by the Kwantung Army, a far weaker force than the IJA. The best troops of the Kwantung Army had been sent to the Pacific earlier.
The Soviets shared Sakhalin with Japan, and ground operations into the south began 11 Aug. On 16 August, a Soviet coast guard ship, four minesweepers, two transports, six gunboats, and nineteen torpedo boats *docked* in Port Toro in the south.
The first landing on the Kuril Islands came on 18 August _after_ Japan accepted the terms of surrender. This invasion surprised the Japanese force there who thought the War was over, and it ended up being a bit of a debacle for the Soviets, who took heavy casualties after the Japanese regrouped at Battle of Shumshu. Further, 5 of the 16 landing craft were sunk by Japanese artillery fire. On 1 September, elements of the 87th Rifle Corps were landed by torpedo boats, mine trawlers, and transports on Kunashir and Shikotan in the southern Kuril Islands.
The problem the USSR faced was it lacked amphibious landing ships in the quantity required and, and more importantly, know-how. The USSR didn't have much of a navy and its wartime experience was land and air operations. The US transferred 30 large infantry landing craft, each capable of carrying approx 200 men to the USSR - 6000 men. Despite having this new capability, the USSR was a novice in amphibious assault such as that conducted by the Allies at Normandy and the US in the Pacific. An invasion of Japan's home islands would require mass landings well supported by naval barrage and air supremacy. In August 1945 the Soviets lacked the ability to pull this off.
Supreme Council for the Direction of the War, aka 'the Big Six', was made up of the Prime Minister Admiral (retired) Suzuki, Minister of Foreign Affairs Togo, Minister of the Army General Anami, Minister of the Navy Admiral Yonai, Chief of the Army General Staff General Umezu, and Chief of the Navy General Staff Admiral Toyoda. This was a subset of the Cabinet. It split 3-3 on 9 Aug - Suzuki, Togo, and Yonai for. Prior to the vote Suzuki, fearing it would be exceedingly difficult to secure unanimity, requested and obtained the Emperor's assurance of an Imperial decision in the event of a deadlock. After the vote Suzuki informed the emperor that consensus was impossible and requested that Hirohito express his views.
In the wee hours of 10 Aug the Emperor stated that he was in complete accord with the views of the pro-surrender group and then proceeded to give his reasons. To continue the war would be suicidal, he said, adding that to end the war on this occasion was the only way to save the nation from destruction. He then pointed to the record of the military. The Emperor said it was apparent that their performance had fallen far short of the plans and promises expressed, pointing out that although he had been assured many times in the past that victory was certain, it had not been realised. He then detailed the military's recent failures, for example fortifications along the Kujukuri-Hama coast were past the promised completed date. This flattened the pro-war camp. The meeting ended at 0230 and the _entire_ cabinet reconvened at 0300. Those who had not met the Emperor were informed of his decision. The full Cabinet unanimously agreed to Togo's surrender message and signed the necessary document of approval. In the morning both Anami and Toyoda warned their subordinates against any attempts to subvert the surrender.
_'The Japanese Government is ready to accept the terms enumerated in the joint declaration which was issued at Potsdam on July 26th, 1945, by the heads of the Governments of the United States, Great Britain, and China, and later subscribed by the Soviet Government,_ *with the understanding that the said declaration does not comprise any demand which prejudices the prerogatives of His Majesty as a Sovereign Ruler.'*
The last bit was to cause some problems.
The Allies' response on 12 Aug included: 'From the moment of surrender the authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government to rule the State shall be subject to the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers who will take such steps as he deems proper to effectuate the surrender terms.'
Interpretations by the Japanese varied greatly. General Umezu and Admiral Toyoda spoke to the Emperor and asked that he reconsider. He refused. Anami wanted clarification from the Allies. Suzuki waffled.
On 13 August, the Japanese ambassador to Sweden cabled the Foreign Office. He reported that the US had resisted heavy pressures by the Soviet Union and China for outright removal of the Emperor. With this info, Togo informed his colleagues that if Japan continued to delay, the hardliners on the Allied side would prevail and the Emperor would be removed. But, if they accepted the US message, Japan under the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers, an American, would best ensure the Emperor's future. Suzuki backed the surrender. A meeting of the full Cabinet convened. The majority backed surrender.
On 14 Aug the US dropped leaflets over Japanese cities that revealed the surrender talks. The public had been kept in the dark. The pro-surrender camp informed the Emperor of this development and the danger it posed by giving the extremists a powerful weapon with which to oppose the Emperor's will to sue for peace. It was imperative, therefore, that the Emperor declare war be ended immediately lest he might lose control of the armed forces in the field. The Emperor readily agreed.
Later in the morning the Emperor met with his leading generals and admirals, but not Anami, Umezu, and Toyoda, and informed them of his decision to surrender and his expectation they support it.
The Cabinet convened later at 1100. The three holdouts were asked to speak. They restated their opposition. The Emperor then spoke, saying that his decision of 10 Aug was unchanged. It was feared the three holdouts might resign, but none did. The Cabinet next spent several hours over the draft surrender message, the Imperial Rescript of Surrender. During this time the Emperor recorded his surrender message to the nation, to be broadcast on 15 Aug. The Imperial Rescript of Surrender was finished and signed at 2300 on 14 Aug. It was ordered to be proclaimed, but printing problems delayed this until 15 Aug. Promulgation of the Rescript was telegrammed to the four Allied Governments through the facilities of the Swiss Government.
@@gagamba9198most of Japanese industry at that time was in Manchuria
There were even plan to continue the struggle there
It is one of the reason for Ichigo besides trying to knock chinese out of the war
With Manchuria collapse and ussr entering+ the bomb, all of the plan of continue struggle was thrown out of the water.
They didn't really expect or want ussr to enter the war, bc that would allow the continuous struggle in china.
Tho nearly the end there is still a pro war coup attempted to stop surrender
The biggest problems with Germany and Japan is that they put their faiths in a single human, and humans are flawed, thus they never carried on the fight otherwise they would have wore down the allies and actually won undoubtedly so.
Basically Japs and Germs were neo-jihadists/crusaders but instead of a God they had their emperor and fuhrer, which made them clearly inferior in sustaining a lasting struggle.
I think you are correct to say that Germany fought to the bitter end because, among other reasons, many believed that defeat would mean that the Allies (all of them, Western and Eastern) would treat the German people as the Germans treated all those they defeated. They expected to be slaughtered and enslaved, mostly correctly in the East, mostly incorrectly in the West.
Not that the western allies didnt *want* to do it. The americans had their famous morgenthau plan which was literally identical to generalplan ost, and every allied nation including denmark and the netherlands got a share of german slaves for "reparations"
It's about personal ego. Leaders that can't accept defeat, and ordinary people showing loyalty. It's human emotions making you blind from rational thinking
WE LOVE YOUR CHANNEL!! GREAT 👍 WORK!! THANK YOU SO MUCH 💓
This indeed made a lot of sense.
Oh good! This being a new concept, I was concerned that I wouldn't explain it right
@@TheImperatorKnight great replacement video when??
Your videos are extremely informative and also go deep into detail, watched your Oswald video and I absolutely loved it
An excellent video. Too often people overlook the ideological and religious reasons behind people's actions in discussions of war, even though that's at least as important as the material and strategic side of the question.
so if all generals were nazis why were there so many plans to kill Hitler?
Part of that is that very often the ideological and/or religious 'reasons' are, in fact, excuses for what they wanted to do anyway. This is a reminder that that isn't always the case.
Actually the post war Jewish Morgenthau Plan was to exterminate 1/3 of the German population and to return it to an agrarian state. And it partially succeeded for at least 2 years after the war when the Germans were hungrier then than during the war. Fortunately by 1948 the policy had ended, and once the US realized that Stalin was their real enemy, they began to help Germany economically to become a bulwark against the Soviet threat.
It also helped that the alliance between stalin, FDR and jewish magnates broke down when FDR died and stalin backstabbed the jews with the doctors plot, neccessitating his assassination. Otherwise, roosevelts US may have very well just handed everything to stalin.
This was such a great watch! Easily the best video on the subject!
In my interpretation, Germany's bid for surrender was rejected by the allies who favored total warfare, i.e. the unconditional defeat of Nationalist Socialist Germany, so there wouldn't be another nebulous armistice. The allies didn't want any reason for a future generation of Germans to believe they were robbed of victory. So the allies did reject the Nationalist Socialist Germany's peace advances.
Do not forget financial incentives. The military industrial complex and wallstreet bankers are insatiable
@@actuallyKriminell While that may be true for starting a war, it isn't a plausible reason to stop a war. It was understood by the allied politicians that the WWI armistice was nebulous and an excuse for the rise of Hitler's Germany. So allied politicians rejected all peace feelers and opted for unconditionally warfare. Bankers don't look beyond their balance sheets.
Interesting reason indeed, after watching plenty of your videos i did come to a conclusion before you uploaded this video, that the reason they kept fighting till the end couldn't be just military "stick to tanks" kinda of deal, but figuring out the reason was still too hard to come up myself
I couldn't have come up with this myself without looking at a combination of different sources - James Lindsay's lectures on Gnosticism, actual National Socialist literature, and then Carlos Videla's book (which may also be a Nazi book, I can't tell). So if I hadn't gone down this route of trying to figure out roots of National Socialist ideology, there's no way I would have found this either. It seems that a lot of the answers to the questions we have about the stuff in WW2 aren't answered on the battlefield. They're not answered logically. It lies in the ideology.
@@TheImperatorKnight makes me feel kinda stupid honestly for not looking at the ideologies specially nazies more than the basic stuff and just assuming the battlefield is the key answer to everything else, even though its been in front of our noses whole this time...
Part of the reason is what Hitler did BEFORE the invasion... back in the 30's.
He demonized the Slavs (like he did to the Jews).
This explains a huge part of the reason that the EF was so much more brutal than the WF... and even aside from the history of brutality, the reason (one) that they simply COULD NOT bring themselves to surrender to the Bolsheviks/Slavs, unless there was no other option but death... or permission from the leader(s) of their "herd".
BTW, the IJA and IJN had done MUCH the same thing to their own soldiers when it came to Americans and Chinese... and thus the similarity in the brutality (Bataan Death March, the "R" of Nanking, etc.), REFUSAL TO SURRENDER, etc.
Americans were "weak", "pathetic", "inferior", "the enemy", etc... things which were quite similar to what AH said about the Jews and Slavs.
I know you are not german but you keep saying "Volk", in german V is pronounced as F, so Volk is pronounced just like the english word "folk", Which incidently is also where the english word comes from.
Yeah, I forgot. I knew this, but it's just easier for me to say the V when reading it as an English speaker.
Das volk
@@TheImperatorKnight Fair enough, its just a bit ironic because its the same word and meaning in both german and english, they just used a different letter.
Eh. I wouldn't bother. V is not always read like an F (think "Virus"), and it will just confuse English speakers.
I have to think back to the first grade where we learned when to use the "Vogel V", and not the F.
Pretty sure it would be the same for an english speaker learning German. :)
@@Vitross I can say Folk or Volk, but the different letter throws me off. It's a V, not an F, and so I read it as a V, not an F, and then have to mentally correct it from a V to an F, which makes me not give a V, which is secretly an F. 😂
Given the WW1 & WW2 mass slaughters, what seems interesting to me is what is the effect on the country when xx% of their men are killed or wounded?
You should read the Morganthau plan,of what should happen to the German nation after the war,and discussed by Stalin,Truman,and Churchill,at the Potsdam Conference ,when they collectively carved up Germany !
Yes and it had been leaked so Germany was well aware of its genocidal agenda . They also knew from the Holodomor famine genocide and Katyn Wood massacres that they must fight or their families would be murdered . Unconditional Surrender effectively meant that that fighting and losing were better than surrendering .
Millions of German women were raped and murdered and 2 million German soldiers killed in the Rhine camps by the Americans and French .
The Germans had no choice but to fight whatever the odds against them .
Extremely interesting analysis - with a disturbing resonance with current events.
I've started to notice that in the past few years
In my own words, "Life is a perpetual struggle, a cross that must be bore to the bitter end."
Great video. It's a nice way to put a bow on the idea of why it took marching to the Gates of Berlin to reach VE-Day.
Hey there TIK. Love to see your still making videos after getting burnt out with Stalingrad. Take all the time you want, I know I’ll keep coming back for whatever you make because it is always well thought out and explained in great detail.
Historians need to take a page or two from your repertoire ❤
Thanks for this TIK. I find your arguments in this video plausible and indeed convincing, as in your other videos. They certainly stimulate me to think about complex historical issues.
Go watch Zoomer Historian if you want to know why they really fought till the end.
19:30-19:45
Its not about shifting historic paradigm or the ideologies of our vanquished adversaries, its about the tanks we stuck to along the way...
Top notch as always TIK.
do you think that atleast to the average soldier below the rank of major, the fact that superior weapons like the Tiger II, Panther, V2 and Me 262 were being introduced, helped to fight on. I've read in many memoirs that soldiers had the idea that germany just needed time, and that the wunderwaffe would turn the tide if germany held out for long enough. I'd personally guess that this idea would stick to the average soldier in a similar way that many modern ideas like reducing personal carbon emissions to help save the air around us stick to the average person. Both nonsensical but still fundamentally logical if you don't think critically.
Oh yeah kinda like today, we just need to get the latest tech to the Ukrainians and they will win! Lol, seriously though the sentiment is certainly similar. From my understanding it's primarily been an artillery war, and russia can just make more. We are putting faith in tech and the Slavic peoples ability to use said tech. When the utility is in artillery this amounts to a faith in the newest and best weapons. When in reality it's tech that has existed for nearly 150 years, which is winning.
Definitely this. I'm reading Antony Beever's 'Arnhem' and it's filled with anecdotes of Wehrmacht soldiers terrorising Dutch civilians that they'll all be done for once they start mass producing V1 and V2 rockets - and that they'll turn the tide in no time. Despite being in full retreat on the eastern front and having lost almost all their heavy equipment in the west at Falaise, the typical german Landser was in high spirits. I think this is something that people just can't understand about the latter stages of the war.
I wonder if we look at the last year of the war with too much hindsight. Why did the soviet troops fight on when the germans were at the gates of Moscow? Why did they fight on at Arnhem or Anzio? Why did the British keep fighting after Dunkirk? What about the Ukrainians in Mariupol last year? Operational Inertia probably plays a big part too: it's easier to keep doing what you've been doing than completely change your point of view.
According to interviews of german ww2 veterans some of them claim the reason to keep on fighting late for them in the war was hope for something. i.e. hope for reaching a stalemate, hope for slowing down the soviets in the east, hope for evacuating civilians, hope for better terms etc. Even some lower rank soldiers expressed their hope for those wonder weapons in some cases.
Seems very unlikely that all or almost all soldiers were into the super darwinistic eat or get eaten/ morals are for the weak ideology especially towards the end of the war. Also the somewhat common jokes about Hitler and other party leaders don't really imply blind faith all over the place into the 'cult'. This video has some interesting thoughts but TiK is a bit careless when he is generalizing too much.
@@trystdodge6177 the “new” technology is 40 years old and combat tested.
PGMs, better thermals, forklifts, etc. aren’t “wunderwaffen”.
@@deriznohappehquite have you ever met a slav?
I agree with this - several recent books on Intelligent Design (opposed to Darwinian evolution) have pointed out that Darwin was popular in Germany (eg, embroyologist Ernst von Haeckel, and many others) have that Darwin's 'struggle for existence' and 'survival of the fittest' was inherent in the 'Origin of Species' and 'The Descent of Man' and that he borrowed this from Malthus to make his theory sound more intellectually respectable.
Hmmm..I didn't know that... you learn something new every time you come on this channel
Man, in the 1970s...most of my teachers were WWII vets, they didn't go into in depth detail but say like my 4th grade teacher Mr. Linden taught history so he would say my unit fought here, terrible battle if history was covering that battle.
Fabulous video. I like how you are never afraid to correct yourself or amend your position after getting new info or i sight. I think that is the mark of a true scholar.
I like that you're reading Voegelin. He's often one of my go to writers to understand modern political phenomenon. I struggle calling this type of cult mentality a religion. That may be my own bias, since I'm religious, but I sincerely struggle to find religions that tell you "not to think". All the major abrahamic religions, and a lot of the eastern ones, give you a framework to individually interpret the world. Modern political ideology shuns thinking individually altogether in favor of some sort of collective actualization guided by the enlightened leader. Simplifying it: God wants to change and elevate the man; ideology wants the man to disappear, absorbed by a collective consciousness embodied by the leader. It's a man created god and the definition of what we Christians would call idolatry.
I've only just really discovered Voegelin, so I'm behind the curve a little. But yes, it's good stuff. The one book I've used so far is not an easy read though!
@@TheImperatorKnight Highly recommend his "Order and History" series.
Excellent work
Great video TIK. Just finished this. I have to say that this is a spot on mark to this question. I have more than relatability to this feeling. This has become more of a religious conversation and rightfully so, I can say that there are still very many that subscribe to this world-religious-historical view. It’s hard to dispute German war propaganda when today many of their narratives, at least on the fundamental level, are validated. It’s hard to even find a different world view once you open up this pandora box. Regardless of your own personal views I enjoy the objective discussion.
I'm liking your comment on the basis of the acknowledgement that Nazism is a religious movement. I'll be honest, I thought the religious aspects of National Socialism were just an added extra to maybe convince some Christians that they were on the same team. However, I now realise that the religious elements are actually central to the whole thing. This is an actual cult. From the symbols, to the "mesmeric" speeches, the rambling sermon that is Mein Kampf, the "stand fast" orders, the Volkssturm, the Volksgemeinschaft, the working towards the Führer, the way that Hitler's disciples were all spellbound by him... It all just makes sense when you see Hitler as a cult Leader (a Führer).
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"It’s hard to dispute Germany war propaganda when today many of their narratives, at least on the fundamental level, are validated."
I don't necessarily agree with this part. You have to realise that there's no such thing as "volk" or "races", or any of this nonsense. You're an individual, not a group. Nazi propaganda may seem validated, but only if you buy into the idea of "Volk" or "race". If you don't, then the narrative crumbles.
@@TheImperatorKnight we are all individuals. However it's a bit daft to say races don't exist. And It seems a bit ideologicaly dogmatic.
Whenever I encounter these nazi propagandist starting about white genocide or replacement I ask them what are you doing to help your race. If they were really part of the white race they would be working hard at school to get lots of money to fund a large tradition family to maintain the white race and would be encouraging their friends and family to do likewise.
Like the nazi say do ask what your race can do for you but what you can do for your race. Up to now I have never encountered a nazi or a white racialist who lives this lifestyle. They act like other individuals in the west. They play video games, watch TH-cam, drink and eat. Instead of earning lots of money, rasing a family, exercising their body and mind so they are pure and strong.
@@alg7115 "However it's a bit daft to say races don't exist. And It seems a bit ideologicaly dogmatic."
I'm not a race. Are you a race? Even if The Race existed, it's irrelevant. I'm an individual, and you're an individual. We are not the same. There are no groups, only individuals. Stop thinking as if you're part of something bigger because you're not. The fact that you think you're part of a monolithic group that doesn't exist is the "dogmatic ideology" you should be criticizing.
@Al G the concept exists. The "race as a body," does not. A race has no animus; it cannot act without individuals making choices and taking actions.
Great stuff TIK, great insights.
Because they were fighting a brutal foe who had shown themselves to be total monsters and refused every attempt by Germany to make peace ?
Oh look it's the nazi gamer again
Just stick to making videos showcasing hot video game girls instead of moving into political commentary.
@@tinytank6642 OH MY SOYANCE, YOU REALLY GOT HIM THERE, SIS!!!! :O
@@bigger_mibber6029 I am not a female. Nice try though.
Excellent. Once again, you add a piece to the history puzzle that we haven't really thought of. My father, who witnessed 'The Reich', always told me that the Germans fought on from guilt. They knew what they had done - in the East, they had, as Stephan Fritz tells us, carried out a deliberate and systematic 'war of extermination'. Hence the struggle (sic) against the forces of the USSR. But the war in the west (in 1940) was not without its depredations. They knew there would be a reckoning. Or that's what Dad thought at least. Guilt and fear - powerful motivations, if you want to add them to the pot. But that doesn't explain the homefront fight. Good video, well done.
“War of systematic and deliberate extermination” is an absolute farce. That strike against the USSR was preemptive.
It was the Russians who carried out systematic war of extermination just like what they are doing in the Ukraine today Stalins war of extermination by Hoffman should be read by all interested in that war
Excellent account. It is interesting how similiar the germans were to the japanese in how they fought. Both had a performative aspect to their combat and as a result were extremely tenecious. Both treated combat as almost as performance art. The japanese fought as if their ancestors were watching, the germans for future generations of aryans. If you are interested i can provide refernces.
If japan had of attacked Russia from the west Germany would of won..
@@merkcityboy834 Russians messed them up in Mongolian land to prevent from that sht
Bravo, TIK. You are leveling up your game at an astounding pace. I am guessing the circular hand motion at the end of the video is related to the Ouroboros and the Hermetic belief of "As above, so below." If not intentional, you're definitely on the correct path philosophically speaking.
Voegelin is a good source on this subject, and if you came to these conclusions without reading Peikoff's "The Cause of Hitler's Germany", then that'd be another bravo required. As you say, it's a cult and most of the cultists are unaware of it. They've been tricked, thus the myriad of historical references to Hitler having "had them in his spell" or "hypnotizing" the people. A good way to understand the trick or the "spell" is to understand the polysemy going on. Polysemy is when a word has multiple meanings, i.e: "I'm going to play outside." and "I'm going to see a play tonight." Same word, different meaning, based on context. What Hitler is doing is *conceptual* polysemy. The word "volk" was understood to mean "people" in a general context, "German folk". This is how most understood it. Hitler meant it in a particular context however, a National Socialist ideological context. This context can be referred to as Hermetic, gnostic, Marxist, progressive, etc. It essentially means a certain subset of people who have a particular gnostic view of the world. They have "nous" or "mind", essentially that they are awake to the way reality truly is, or as it's referred to in the West today: they're woke.
The Hitler speech quotes you chose were well selected. Try replacing the word "folk" with the word "folx" and the language and meaning are near identical. Replace "Volksgemeinschaft" with "Folxgemeinschaft" and you get something very similar (though situated in a different context). In the name of "equity" in America for example, you get segregation based on skin color to protect the "folx". "Communities of color" in modern Western parlance *is* an equivalent to Volksgemeinschaft. "Safe spaces for trans folx" in modern Western parlance *is* an equivalent to Volksgemeinschaft. They are the Volk/folx, they have the "nous" or "mind" or are "awakened" (i.e: woke).
That's the trick (well, one of them). That's the slight of hand, the conceptual polysemy. The average person doesn't think like a crazy person. When you're trying to point out how crazy people think, the reaction of the average person is to say "No, that's crazy, you're crazy, no one thinks like that." When you're discussing "unconditional surrender", it's the Volk that view it as the end of the Volk, that they will be extinguished. Not that they will be sent to Siberia or sterilized but that the Volk will be defeated which they consider to be the death of their "Volk", a specific subset of human beings who have true knowledge of how the world works. Today, you hear the same claim from "trans folx", claiming there will be a "trans genocide" - they mean the "way of life" of their "volk" will be extinguished, they will cease to "be". Conceptual polysemy, again. Makes it very easy to trick people.
I'd also like to point out that the quote you use referring to "world history" has gnostic roots as well in Hegelianism. The Hegelians claim to know how "History" (capital H) unfolds, how you get from point A to point B, in a scientific manner. "Otherwise world history will have lost it's meaning." is Jodl saying what amounts to "Our theory of reality and how History unfolds and how we reach Heaven on Earth will have lost it's meaning". It would be the undoing of the Volk, their cult-religion being decimated.
Keep up the great work :)
I haven't read that book, but I'll pick it up. Thank you for the recommendation! And yes, I agree with the rest of your comment, and hadn't heard of the concept of polysemy before.
@@TheImperatorKnight Thanks for taking the time to respond! I think it's a book you'll have a bit of a hard time putting down once you get your hands on it, so I hope you thoroughly enjoy it.
I greatly appreciate the time, effort and energy you put into your work and I believe it's going to be far more valuable in the years to come. Keep on the path you're on and I think things will work out very well for you!
As a kid I learned about ww2 and didn’t think much of it, as an adult with what’s going on with Ukraine it truly shocks me how horrible war is, I could not imagine how my grandparents got through ww2 and didn’t let it effect them with all the bombings of Sheffield they went through.
I don't think that there is necessarily an inherent contradiction between soldiers fighting to avoid retribution/punishment and the struggle for the volk as a whole. One tactic widely used by cults is to implicate all of the members, through direct action or by association, in the unsavory/illegal activities of the cult. Every German soldier fighting on the eastern front knew about the Commissar Order. Even if they didn't participate directly in those atrocities, they knew that they were collectively guilty and would be punished for the actions of their fellow soldiers. The struggle of the individual and the struggle of the volk therefore became one and the same.
I'm just commenting for engagement. I don't have much to add. I always figured the "stab in the back" was sufficient for the military and the populace to not want to commit the same crime they had hated for nearly three decades. Thanks for the video
Just keep in mind that the truth is never simple.
I've been watching james lindzey video's about CRT and other wokish topics and some of your videos are lining up with his content. i recognize that true things will line up by different actors without any communication. but i'm curious if you've watched any of his content?
Yes I have. I've got his book on Race Marxism too, and I hope he makes a book on Gnosticism. I've been looking into it myself, and it's a revelation. Seeing Hitler's Movement as a religion or cult of Volk-Struggle actually makes everything fall into place. The "hypnotic" speeches, the Volkssturm, the SS Aryan religion, the symbolism, the marches, the "Madman Hitler" card, the "stand fast" orders, the "irrationality".... It all lines up.
There’s no need for conspiracy if interests align… in this case, the truth.
@Christ's Kingdom is Coming! "Hitler reportedly always kept a copy of Blavatsky's writings by his bedside and was greatly influenced by her writings"
I've not heard this before. Do you have a source for this information??
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"The Thule society as well as the Vrill likely held Gnostic beliefs among others. If this is the case, then these Ideas have very much influenced Hitler's world view and helped shape the man he became."
Yeah, but Hitler didn't enter the Thule. Some of the ideas may have originated from that, but it can't all be blamed on that because the evidence doesn't support the conclusion that Hitler was directly influenced by the Thule.
Great video again Tik. I always like the say the eastern front of ww2 was a religious war more than anything.
Makes sense. Great vid. Thank you for all your work.
I will sum up the question of "why did the Nazis keep fighting" very briefly and succinctly here. Think of your most deeply-held beliefs and principles. The ones you hold most dear and most define who you are as a person. Now imagine you're fighting a war against people who hold beliefs that are the exact opposite of yours, and your side is losing that war. You're losing so bad that your defeat is inevitable. So your choice is, surrender and live your life in compliance with a set of beliefs and principles that fly in the face of the ones you hold most dear, or keep fighting for what you believe in. I think you get my point.
I'd love a discussion about Japan's continued fighting too
This is a great video - and I think it gets at the heart of the matter, but for many in Germany - the White Rose and the Confessing Church movement - they understood this in a very real way very early on... I am glad you are reading Voegelin and hope you will find him useful, especially regarding Heraclitus.
It's not pronounced VOLK. The German volk is pronounced the same way and has a similar meaning as the English term FOLK. Although folk is reference to family or community, while volk refer to people or nation.
Answered a fundamental question I had for a long time. Eye-opening, novel stuff, TIK. Thank you.
The memoirs of Sepp Allersberger explain in detail why German units kept fighting and didn't surrender - they couldn't, the Reds wouldn't let them.
At the same it is how other commentators have said, going down fighting meant damage control and buying time.
I can't believe the answer was staring us in the face. I've read plenty on the Nazi's and their ideology, but I didn't quite make the connection with the fact that the Volk was the most important thing to Hitler and the idea of the thousand-year Reich. This would explain why Hitler killed himself and why he took his wife and dogs with him as well. Suicide by just German civilians on the east side of the Elbe Line was very high and millions of others fled the advancing Soviets. One of the largest land evacuations was held in the final months of the war. Combined with the fact that the US, Britian, and France were treating POW's and civilians far better than the Soviets.
The Americans starved to death a million German soldiers.
I’ve only been able to make it to the 7-min mark. Do you cover the Morgenthau Plan? Do you cover the publicity Kaufman’s book ‘Germany Must Perish’ got in the early 40’s, both in the USA & Germany?
He didnt. Its much easier for allied apologists to just pretend like "they were brainwashed" instead of admitting the allies were waging a self declared war for german extinction.
They weren’t lambs they believed in something that just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean they’re wrong I mean look at the world know who’s to say who things would of went..
Excellent as always, thank you for this work.
Kampf doesn't translate as "struggle" it translates closer to fight or battle.
I was thinking, kampfgruppe means struggle group? Doesnt make sense
Well done on coming to this realization! I greatly respect a person like yourself who is so persistently able to challenge his core beliefs, do research whilst reducing bias as much as possible, and ultimately discern the objective truth - or at least - something notably closer to that truth. The fact that people like you exist in this world quite honestly gives me reassurance that all hope is not lost for this world.
On my part, I’ve long since known (or guessed, rather) that the Nazis fighting to their death was due to cultish fanaticism due to their (false) worldview, but this was admittedly just a guess rather than a well-researched opinion on my part. Despite my relative ignorance, I was reflecting how this realization was so easy for me to grasp when clearly it is not so for others. Perhaps my general ignorance of the true realities and numbers of waging war ironically aided in me arriving at this conclusion, simply because - as I have a much reduced grasp of the realities of Germany’s position in its final days than you - my estimation of the irrationality of continuing the fight is much less than someone who truly understands the gravity of Germany’s situation by that point? I am curious what you think about this. Probably each person’s backgrounds no matter how educated results in certain “blind spots” in different areas. I certainly can think of one or two such past blind spots in my life too 😂
Two questions:
1. I imagine your existing videos have largely addressed the hopelessness of Germany’s situation in 1945 but clearly my true comprehension of such realities is still wanting. If you have any specific recommendations as to videos to rewatch or other resources, I would be eager to know them.
2. I have always wondered if Hitler’s suicide should be interpreted as him as “giving up” or if rather it should more be interpreted as a man - who deluded so many into his cult - ultimately fell prey to his own delusion and thus his suicide might have been rationalized (not that such a term can be truly applied to a suicidal person) as a sort of “sacrifice” to thus deliver his followers from their struggle and usher in heaven on earth. Is there any evidence to support the mentality Hitler took towards ending his life? Not that we should generally want to dwell too much on an evil, deranged man’s thoughts but at the same time, I think it very much DOES benefit humanity if we can understand cult behavior so as to try to prevent it in the future.
As always, my greatest respect.
Citino is an excellent historian and his books are a great read. But as you point out, the Soviet/German war was of a different nature and there was a case of “true-believership” on the German side. (By that I mean a religious faith of some sort in Hitler and his person and struggle.)
Moreover, fighting till the end was a part of both typical German history and part of the “special lesson” they felt they learned from doing the opposite in the First World War. Hitler’s mission and Nazism itself was just an encapsulation of that belief and Hiller himself was a frequent harkener back to the virtual miracle that saved Frederick the Great from a heretofore almost victorious alliance against him.
But you are correct that Hitler had codified all this around a distinctly German “chosen people” and “nation”. (Which ought to say something about why the Jews were considered public enemy number one.)
Do you think the events following WW1 cast a shadow in people's minds ? Better to die than go through that humiliation again ? It was very much within living memory.
Yeah ,the problem of these history nerds is that they only see the world through litterature and ideologies,but that's not all there is to life
> The REAL Reason Germany Kept Fighting
For the same reason that the USSR continued to fight in 1941-42, Japan in 1945 and Russia today. People continue to fight even in the most senseless and doomed wars as long as the totalitarian/authoritarian state can force them to fight (with any means). Because for totalitarian rulers, winning or losing a war is a matter of their survival, not as a political system, but as human beings. That is why Germany in 1918 and France in 1940 did not fight to the end - their political system was different and their political elite did not expect a guaranteed scaffold.
Man continues to fight because he is "atomized" in totalitarian state. He's always "alone". Even if you do not want to fight, you have no one to tell it to, since any of your old combat comrades can be an informer and hand you over to the "commissar". And this is guaranteed torture, prison camp labor or death for you and repression for your family. Therefore, no matter how strange it may sound, voluntary surrender or desertion for a soldier of a totalitarian country is much more dangerous than the fighting itself. So you literally have to fight to the end to have any hope of surviving.
That is why the workers of Japan and Germany continued to work dutifully in their factories after the devastating bombings and fire tornadoes. Because you can hide from Allied bombs, but there is no escape from Tokkō or the Gestapo.
Great to watch another video. I enjoyed all your videos about the battle of Stalingrad!
I applaud your thinking outside the box as it were - embracing a more philosophical, esoteric understanding that contributes to the underlying reasons why Germany kept fighting.
Being a philosophy nut and majoring in it at university as well as studying German history ( especially ontology, existentialism and romanticism ) I can see for myself the Zeitgeist that evolved and existed in continental Europe since the enlightenment - the new ideas and concepts like Darwinism, Nationalism, Communism that had been straining to break free.
The liberal revolutions of 1848 are a sign that these ideas were attempting to find a place in society.
The idea of struggle as the very essence of life itself was written about extensively, notably Goethe, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and others which the Nazi’s adopted and co-opted into their own loose ideals.
Too simplistic, if it were true then the 20 July plotters would not have planned to make peace with the Western Allies as soon as possible. Although, they may have thought to continue the war with Russia, it would not have worked. No, the reason answer to why most soldiers fought on, was because they were fighting for their fellow soldiers, their friends! Their band of brothers!
Yep. Just browsed through many posts and this was the only mention that without that piece of blind (bad) luck history would have been very different. Left unmentioned in this video is the fact their were many military leaders trying to end the war.(well, until they all got shot). Didn't fit into the argument I guess.
Amazing video as always!!!
Brother, it was posted 2 minutes ago and it's 20 minutes long... how can you write such a comment? 😅
P.S.
And to clarify, I just recently subscriced to this channel and I've binged-watched more than a dozen videos, I really like this channel and all that, but still...
@@magnumopus1628 he's trying to farm likes
@@Horizon_29
Well... if that's the case, it's even more weird than I previously imagined.
Fascinating added context, thank you.
Amazingly insightful video. Thanks, Tik.