Since I don't think it was mentioned in the video, the MSRP for these are US$1099, and currently Auribus Acoustics has a sale on them for US$899.99. Not criticising or anything, I just feel like this should be kind of up front and centre when talking about any product and its comparisons with what's on the market.
I'm sure these sound phenomenal and the kit of stuff they bring seems premium but they're off their rockers if they think they can get away with 3D printed anything for that price. I'd be expecting magnesium or aluminum body or a really nice wood shell for that price considering it's kind of a beta testing product.
@@NightFoxZero then they would weigh more. Zmf headphones have poor ergonomics because of their weight and distribution, and people just cope because they look pretty. Headphones should best function as headphones.
@@NightFoxZero only an animie PFP would embarrass themselves by showing their own ignorance so unprompted. These sell out very quickly in each batch. So did the omegas at a similar price. You know nothing about what consumers want.
@@NightFoxZero The price is right for small-batch boutique production. DMS' own Omega went for $999, and it was also 3D printed, with the same driver, and some metal furnishings. You can take a look at his video where he breaks down the price, cost, and the profit (which came up to like $10/pair). Definitely not worth it for me, but I don't think it is crazy over priced for what you get... just a different style of production.
Thanks for the well thought out review, and great videography as always! For those who missed us at canjam, please give Sierra a try at The Source AV in California!
The problem isn't that it's 7ohms in the audible band, it's that the treble filter is not bandwidth load limited. It tends to ZERO ohms at higher frequencies. For any amp that tend towards oscillation, having what is an almost dead short in the ultrasonics (i.e a pure capacitive load) a driver response compensation filter that's this incompetently constructed is a death sentence to any class A/AB amp susceptible to it. Be aware... This isn't just a load (power) problem, it's also a very bad situation for any digital amp that has to little HF filtering, or an " HF load dependency compensation". A pure capacitive load will make that amp sound really - REALLY - strained and probably straight up bad. Many of the most expensive HP-amps out there will suffer from this. To bad, since the mass-market product safety solution to sink/make resistive a capacitive load without impairing the filter function is about 50-70 cents in components, and very easy to implement. Even if you use "audiophile" quality components
This is a fatal issue. That impedance curve looks like they slapped a 1uF cap on the inputs to get the FR they want. Sure you can design amps to withstand this but its a worst case for phase margin. The impedance ought to be measured out to much higher frequencies. If an amp can be fed a square wave without dying I expect to see massive ringing if not oscillation on many of them.
We’ve never had a recorded amp failure until this review, various labs have tested these at 94db sweeps with reference equipment without issue, and far cheaper amps (Fiio,Schiit solid state, McIntosh and Viva tubes among a wide variety of higher and lower end devices) have held up without distortion at listening level in real use and trade shows, so it was considered acceptable. In light of this unfortunate a90 death, the filter will be updated for higher 20khz+ impedance in next years batch.
@@JuanAuribus Very good, I'm very impressed (and glad) you answered here. It should only take a very small change to the filter topology to avoid this, with no FR changes. Transients, like amps that pop when plugging/unplugging signal, or even static discharge pops on the input side can push amps into clipping (or even self-oscillating clipping) just as badly as a full-range 0dB sweep. In the industries I've worked in, the machines on the other side of signal cables can cost 100k-5M, and be lethal for the operator/personel if anything goes catastrophically wrong. There, we had very strict rules against this kind of signal termination. Not because most signal output buffers couldn't handle it, but because of the risks involved in the few cases where two or three bad factors stacked up in the worst case scenario. It's just good manufacturing practice, and for a very good reason.
@@JuanAuribus Will there be an option in the future to retrofit the new filter into 2024's batch? Because soon the price of the headphones will increase.
Stick to this aspect ratio. It is good. Just Zoom out a bit so that more fits vertically. Shoot it in 21:9 aspect ratio and crop it to 16:9 or in-between instead of shooting it in 16:9 aspect ratio and cropping to 21:9. Less Data be lost and most useful content in the center of the frame will get fully captured and displayed.
I have them myself and absolutely love them. If you get a chance try them with the ZMF Universe pads hybrid suede/lamb. Personally for me it improved the fitment and added an extra boost to the mids and vocal presence. Love the hell out of these headphones and the vision. If I had one major complaint it's that the cups with stock pads swivel a bit to easily on my head whenever I tilted my head back which in turn is what prompted me to find different pads to help with that issue.
It makes me wonder, is it so difficult to give the price of the reviewed product at the beginning of the review? Maybe that price comes somewhere later, but I would love to know at the beginning if it's something I can afford and if it's even worth looking at. I check to see if there are any links to the headphones, the store, anything under the video, there aren't. So I search on my own on the Internet, but why do I actually have to? Isn't price an important aspect of reviews?
if he forgot to add it right away the link is there now, also could've been youtube being weird, the headphones he was comparing to were $800-$1600 so that's a pretty good iddea of the price range lol
Been looking for a headphone that isn't as fatiguing as my Beyerdynamics but is still on the brighter side. Thanks for sharing these DMS, I'm going to ask Santa for them.
@@rem792 oh yea it is! xD dont forget that there was europe with metric systems while america had only indians with horses and sticks, no offence to indians they took really good care of the land that european colony ruined over the years
@@mehmetgurdalfr. It’s like an HD600 with actual bass extension that doesn’t have an unusual honk or upper mid dip like some of the other “better extending” Sennheiser Headphones
People might complain about them being 3d printed. But luxury headphones have destroyed this market by being overweight, resulting in poorer ergonomics and the longevity of the materials used. The hd800 will outlast every meze headphone ever built. Weight and structural elasticity are the fundamental factors to a headphones comfort and longevity, not luxury.
not really, meze craftsmanship is superior in every possible way, I actually work with synthetic materials and every part got their date of production (its not without a reason), their elasticity as you mentioned and environment factors during usage got an impact on their internal structure that could eventually cause a crack, same goes to wooden items if not properly maintain it degrades over time
@@soulfulfool no not really. Thr hd800s tolerances are drastically better than any meze. People had problems with the yolk assembly on the empyrean not being to tolerance, and it's eventually becoming too loose. I don't trust the wood lasting on the 109pro in different climates. Their luxury design and materials make them prone to super extending. Weight is bad in all circumstances. The hd800 is practically invincible because it's the best engineered headphone ever made.
Yeah your point made sense but then you mentioned Meze for some reason? I would definitely think this applies more to Audeze or Focal Idek what destroyed the market means either lol. There's more good value options then there has ever been in this hobby at any price range. Weird you brought up the hd800 as some kind of market saver when most would say that headphone is pretty expensive for what it is nowadays (still love the headphone though)
@@soulfulfool You just proved his point. Well made headphones DON'T need special treatment to last. The mezes as well as almost all high end headphones are poorly designed.
Wauuuu! already 3 headphones with one and the same driver! What an anti-distinguishing! Also a good refreshment about the HD800s! And quite interesting, it is like.... but it is a monitoring HF! So it is like .... but it doesn't do exactly what the HD800s is praised for! The the biiiig sound stage and the great imaging.
Definitely the best headphone I've seen so far coming from the amateur/boutique/"I don't know how to design for injection molding/CNC which is why I outsource SLS parts that don't need to be SLS and then proceed to charge USD1k"-wave. As someone who has been daily driving DIY headphones for the past 5 years I definitely love using that front damping setup! Too bad the electrical filter isn't designed properly but I'm sure that can be ironed out. Overall very promising, looking forward to what they do next :)
I personally know how to design for injection/CNC, and I choose SLS/MJF because I want/need the freedom to do complex cavity designs that are single-part, strong, light and easy to assemble. There's a reason aircraft engine manufactures are moving to laser sintering to reduce part complexity, while increasing strength and reducing weight.
If you have suggestions for more economical manufacturing processes with similar durability and quality, while allowing the flexibility to appeal to such a small market, I’m all ears :) (Remember, sennheiser took about 20 years before even considering updating the HD600 series molds, with fewer parts than this headphone, focal nearly a decade of color variants before introducing major design overhauls)
@@JuanAuribus I remember the gazillion other headphones Sennheiser made in those 20 years with varying degrees of new tooling (remember their HD 500 bionic series with completely new tooling that lastet for 2 years?). I'm sure you did the math with your expected turnover and came to the conclusion that you won't be able to amortize. That is perfectly fine, I wouldn't invest in tooling with a run of
@@GrumpiestKitten We expect to sell units, and currently do. Large investment means larger stakeholders, and scaling beyond what this market may be able to sustain with a new brand. If you have any sheet metal shop suggestions that can handle spring steel, please drop an email. We’ve gone through a few domestically with quotes triple that of simply 3d printing the headband from solid aluminum. Our usual metal cutters do not support rolling and annealing. The rest of the assembly is solid plastic.
@@killthrash I think it's great that designers are able to take advantage of it. I won't judge anyone for simply using any 3D printing. As you mentioned it sometimes is the only way to feasibly make a part and for low volume/prototyping it is a godsend. The problem is inexperienced designers that use it inflationary with the thought process being "cool, only USD25 for this plastic part instead of paying 50k for a mold" which quickly transtions to "for some reason my final sales price is high even though my margins are low". Interesting you mention aircraft. In a lot of cases these high performance parts aren't 3D printed. The (lost) form is printed, the actual product is cast and finished with CNC. However I wouldn't be suprised to find purely laser sintered metal parts aswell.
Wouldn't a headphone with better imaging and wider sound-stage be better for professionals? Is there a reason why studio monitors are worse for gaming than HD800S when they are reproducing sounds better matching reference grade? This is so confusing, maybe I am just not the target audience for these videos.
monitoring you want narrower soundstage because you care mor about keeping everything "level" initially and then can mess with it in post, gaming it depends on their sound design most games cheap out a lot lol but when it works positional audio is an advantage
@JuanAuribus "we ship internationally!". Will you also pay for the 40% uplift from import charges? "Well no" then we are not interested. You wouldn't pay $1600 for a headphone you know costs $1100, so neither would anyone else. So tired of Americans not understanding something so basic.
what broke your a90 was nothing. when you un/plug TRS amps get shorted. so ur a90 could've died just by playing music loud and replugging the TRS continuously. phonitor amps gotta be muted before plugging TRS, 4 example.
Thank you for your reviews. I always enjoy watching your reviews! Would you mind comparing this to Meze Audio 109 Pro in more details? I own a pair of 109 Pro, and when you said it's better, I want to try it. :)
@@TheHEADPHONEShow i think at this stage it just needs to be a global scale across all channels. IEMs and Headphones need to be ranked 1-100, they need to be ranked higher than 70 to be worth your time. ppl just need to be cold about their rankings. "yeah, its a 60, its unique. but not worth the cost here" most reviewers fear getting cut off from their supply though.
I met Juan and his dad at CanJam SoCal where I tried these headphones. They sound pretty good. Stock tuning is actually better than 90% of headphones I have heard. While I have no doubt that they measure like the HD800s, on my head, they don't sound at all like the HD800s. To me they sound similar to the Austrian Audio composer. It was a good sounding headphone, but like the Composer, nothing really stood out sound wise. Which could, for some people turn out to be a good thing. The construction however......needs a lot of work for headphone in this price range. The headband for example looks and feels like a knock off HD800 headband (because it probably is just that). And the attachment of said headband assembly feels like it will last about 3 months of gentle use. Sound quality is equivalent to a 109 Pro (which is a high compliment). Build quality is more like Sundara quality. I personally would take the 109 Pro over this without hesitation.
These sound tempting. But…I would love to know how these compare to HE1000se, that I just got recently on the super discounts that are available right now. Besides being lighter, I see no advantage over the Hifiman cans.But…I understand why people build collections of headphones. Hearing is a funny thing, and we absolutely tend to normalize and accommodate to what we are listening to, at least to an extent. Novelty drives everything, from taste to sound and even things like travel. The price is reasonable, and their website there’s a $200 discount as an introduction.
I think the high end headphones market is always pretty interesting there is always some new interesting tech. But the budget segment feels like dying. The only the recent decent release is fiio FT-1 after years of bad releases, and for the ultra budget it's dead with Koss just sitting on it. For these price segment you're forced to go IEMs, but you're kinda left with not a lot of options if you want headphones.
Damn, I get why you compare them to the focals and meze’s but you can get those headphones for 500$ now, with way better build, especially on the 109 pro, compared to the $1000+ of this guy. So yea if I paid twice the price of a 109 pro or focal clear I’d hope it was a lot better than them
Sound stage is bass dependent. More bass means narrower soundstage. There is not one headphone with HD800 soundstage that has a powerful bass presence and extension. So we use different headphones appropriate to the source material and desired experience.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez If you are talking about soundstage width, even 1266 is smaller than hd800. But soundstage width is just one aspect, and I would say 100$ AKG K701/2 have wider soundstage than HD800 and also less bass, but they are even less enjoyable than HD800. Crazy that everyone says HD800 is soundstage king while its soundstage is not complete at all.
Are you high? 😂 Akg k702 doesnt have wider soundstage than hd800. Hd800 have taller, deeper and wider soundstage and better imagine, laying and separation. The center is meh on Akg k7x0 line.
HD800 i a very special headphone. Its a master piece! Nothing beats it in comfort, Soundstage and imagine. The driver matching is so tight! And HD800 have very low accoustic impedans. U need some pretty good amps and runs then balanced to get the most out of them. And if u can EQ a bass shelf and tame the 6k. Its the best headphone u can get if u think of how long it last, and both gaming, music and videos use. Yes. U can maybe get a headphone like Hifiman HE1000 that can some other things like bass. But nothing do the same party trick with the soundstage and imagine like hd800
They can be as good as they want but man, do they look cheap... If I pay somewhere around 1000$, I expect some quality feel and look, at least. I'd rather take a Meze 109 any day!
@@tednicholson9225Where did I say that? I don't care about what other people think of my purchases. I buy headphones for my own enjoyment, which includes the finish!
No way I am buying a 3D printed object meant for daily use at more than $500 let alone $1000. There are so many problems with the process and I don't believe these are engineering grade filament and have had the long term studies as traditional materials. Also at the high end you shouldn't be so obviously able to identify the fact it was 3D printed even without significant post processing
Hi, thanks for the comments. Just wanted to point out that the primary structure does not use a filament process, the video details our laser sintering process, which forms a near homogenous internal structure comparable to injection molding. Combined with the high strength of nylon, and the solid aluminum headband, these headphones are capable withstanding years of continuous use, and the cups can be removed without tools for incredibly easy driver capsule or headband replacements (the most likely point of failure). Additionally, this headband design has been in continuous testing and revision for years across multiple uses. We are proud to use cutting edge industrial 3d printing technologies, and the finish reflects our confidence in the technology. That said, we’re always looking for opportunities to improve.
DMS: This is not a type of frequency response in the bass that you can normally get out of an open back headphone, especially not out of an open back dynamic headphone. Me: Uuummm....AKG K245? Anybody? But kinda true, most of the open backs are bass anemic. Especially in sub bass region.
@@TheHEADPHONEShow Yeah, sort of like 6XX but at 100-ish Hz and under instead of going down, it just goes up up up. I like the sound, but the comfort not so much.
I have a 21:9 screen and this doesn't work, at least have it be in focus before you do that but honestly if there's no movement 21:9 is pointless even when it is in focus.
Hey guys, I have got lost into the abyss of the Audio community looking either for a stack or a Dac amp combo around the £500 mark. At present I am leaning towards the Aune S9C. Has anyone got any recommendations. I will be pairing them with the Hifiman Ananda Nano to mix and master music....for fun in my room. Thx
Can anyone tell me how this would compare to an IEM? For example, for almost 1/3 the price you could get the Moondrop x Crinacle Dusk? I just ordered the Dusks - also wondering what I can do for the 3.5mm cable, would a THX Onyx help me? Or just change the EQ on my device (a Steam Deck)
@zmmmzmmmz perfect, care to elaborate? Or are you just one of those callous trolls on the internet who thinks acting smug to any small random viewer, and being able to laugh behind your keyboard and screen, shows your superiority of intelligence and esteem in this elite space of self determined Audiophiles.
OMG, another FRUSTRATING review from DMS. I mean if you are going to be this lazy, why even do a review? It just adds to the noise. 1. Price: People listen to reviews to help make a purchasing decision. If this was Susvara Unveiled, you would have said $8k a dozen times. People watching the review still want to know the value prop, so not giving the price and not even linking to it forces folks to do more work than they want. 2 HD800s: People buy 800s for soundstage, not treble. Soundstage is it's trick, not the treble, that's more of an artifact. You said it doesn't compete on Soundstage, so why compare the two at all? Besides, treble is very person specific. 3. Genelac: These are monitoring speakers, yet you've stated these have elevated bass and treble regions so V shapped? Genelac are revealing because they are designed to be studio monitors and not forgiving on purpose to allow for better mixes. This comparison does not make sense and you didn't include any monitoring headphones in comparison. 4. Comparison headphones? 109, Clear, HD800s. Are these competing with anyone of these? Where do these fit in your library? Is this an all-arounder, someones first / best headphone, or is this more of a flavor say chocolate when you get board of vanilla? No idea after this review. 5. Why so much time on the impeadence that blew your A90? Sounds like something better communicated directly to others benchmarking headphones than in an open video where people are trying to make a purchasing decsion. But still worth a mention to those trying to break in headphones, just not a significant part of the video. Overall, not sure why you made this video. Can anyone make a purchasing decision with this video without even knowing cost? Are folks looking for a headphone that could hurt them in the treble on bad recordings? Is that a good thing? Feels like a lazy, uninspired review just to get something out because you were on deadline. I don't think you did anyone any favors with the review, unless your goal was just to piss people off to get them to engage. It's the only reason I left a comment as I don't get upset easlily and when I do, I tend just to walk away.
Not everyone is willing to spend 1100 $ on your addiction. Most normal people think it's crazy actually. For the same reason, you might find it odd to spend 1100$ on a knife or a some Pokemon card.
1099 us$ for 3d printed headphoens is crazy high. It should be injection moulded. Undestand that the company dont want to make mould and make more money/headphones, but man... its to expensive
I can't believe anyone in their right mind would even consider selling a 3d printed product for US$1099. I don't care how good they sound, this is a prototype at best.
I hate this aspect ratio and it benefits nobody. It feels claustrophobic and fits almost no common screens well, its almost pretentious. Nice review though!
Since I don't think it was mentioned in the video, the MSRP for these are US$1099, and currently Auribus Acoustics has a sale on them for US$899.99. Not criticising or anything, I just feel like this should be kind of up front and centre when talking about any product and its comparisons with what's on the market.
I'm sure these sound phenomenal and the kit of stuff they bring seems premium but they're off their rockers if they think they can get away with 3D printed anything for that price. I'd be expecting magnesium or aluminum body or a really nice wood shell for that price considering it's kind of a beta testing product.
@@NightFoxZero then they would weigh more. Zmf headphones have poor ergonomics because of their weight and distribution, and people just cope because they look pretty. Headphones should best function as headphones.
@@NightFoxZero they also sell out so your animie brain rot ain't severing you
@@NightFoxZero only an animie PFP would embarrass themselves by showing their own ignorance so unprompted. These sell out very quickly in each batch. So did the omegas at a similar price. You know nothing about what consumers want.
@@NightFoxZero The price is right for small-batch boutique production. DMS' own Omega went for $999, and it was also 3D printed, with the same driver, and some metal furnishings. You can take a look at his video where he breaks down the price, cost, and the profit (which came up to like $10/pair). Definitely not worth it for me, but I don't think it is crazy over priced for what you get... just a different style of production.
Thanks for the well thought out review, and great videography as always! For those who missed us at canjam, please give Sierra a try at The Source AV in California!
The problem isn't that it's 7ohms in the audible band, it's that the treble filter is not bandwidth load limited. It tends to ZERO ohms at higher frequencies. For any amp that tend towards oscillation, having what is an almost dead short in the ultrasonics (i.e a pure capacitive load) a driver response compensation filter that's this incompetently constructed is a death sentence to any class A/AB amp susceptible to it. Be aware...
This isn't just a load (power) problem, it's also a very bad situation for any digital amp that has to little HF filtering, or an " HF load dependency compensation". A pure capacitive load will make that amp sound really - REALLY - strained and probably straight up bad. Many of the most expensive HP-amps out there will suffer from this.
To bad, since the mass-market product safety solution to sink/make resistive a capacitive load without impairing the filter function is about 50-70 cents in components, and very easy to implement. Even if you use "audiophile" quality components
This is a fatal issue. That impedance curve looks like they slapped a 1uF cap on the inputs to get the FR they want. Sure you can design amps to withstand this but its a worst case for phase margin.
The impedance ought to be measured out to much higher frequencies. If an amp can be fed a square wave without dying I expect to see massive ringing if not oscillation on many of them.
We’ve never had a recorded amp failure until this review, various labs have tested these at 94db sweeps with reference equipment without issue, and far cheaper amps (Fiio,Schiit solid state, McIntosh and Viva tubes among a wide variety of higher and lower end devices) have held up without distortion at listening level in real use and trade shows, so it was considered acceptable. In light of this unfortunate a90 death, the filter will be updated for higher 20khz+ impedance in next years batch.
@@JuanAuribus Very good, I'm very impressed (and glad) you answered here. It should only take a very small change to the filter topology to avoid this, with no FR changes.
Transients, like amps that pop when plugging/unplugging signal, or even static discharge pops on the input side can push amps into clipping (or even self-oscillating clipping) just as badly as a full-range 0dB sweep.
In the industries I've worked in, the machines on the other side of signal cables can cost 100k-5M, and be lethal for the operator/personel if anything goes catastrophically wrong. There, we had very strict rules against this kind of signal termination. Not because most signal output buffers couldn't handle it, but because of the risks involved in the few cases where two or three bad factors stacked up in the worst case scenario.
It's just good manufacturing practice, and for a very good reason.
@@JuanAuribus Will there be an option in the future to retrofit the new filter into 2024's batch? Because soon the price of the headphones will increase.
@@JuanAuribus Thank you for clarifying, always good to see the manu come in and let the public know
Stick to this aspect ratio. It is good. Just Zoom out a bit so that more fits vertically. Shoot it in 21:9 aspect ratio and crop it to 16:9 or in-between instead of shooting it in 16:9 aspect ratio and cropping to 21:9. Less Data be lost and most useful content in the center of the frame will get fully captured and displayed.
I have them myself and absolutely love them. If you get a chance try them with the ZMF Universe pads hybrid suede/lamb. Personally for me it improved the fitment and added an extra boost to the mids and vocal presence. Love the hell out of these headphones and the vision. If I had one major complaint it's that the cups with stock pads swivel a bit to easily on my head whenever I tilted my head back which in turn is what prompted me to find different pads to help with that issue.
Thanks for the pad suggestion! It’s definitely a nice flavor, without really taking away from the fundamentals of the sound I was looking to achieve
I’ve been rocking these since CanJam SoCal and really enjoy them! Glad they are getting some well deserved praise.
Glad you’re enjoying the Sierra!
It makes me wonder, is it so difficult to give the price of the reviewed product at the beginning of the review? Maybe that price comes somewhere later, but I would love to know at the beginning if it's something I can afford and if it's even worth looking at. I check to see if there are any links to the headphones, the store, anything under the video, there aren't. So I search on my own on the Internet, but why do I actually have to? Isn't price an important aspect of reviews?
Not according to these reviewers. They think 1k$ headphones is normal and acceptable for 3d printed products.
if he forgot to add it right away the link is there now, also could've been youtube being weird, the headphones he was comparing to were $800-$1600 so that's a pretty good iddea of the price range lol
it makes me wonder, is it so difficult to google the price of the reviewed product if you want to know?
@@iamkailong I might as well google another review at that point
@ yeah, good idea, do that please.
I like DMS. And I like his wedding reception headphone reviews. I love Andrew when he smiles. ❤
To all the Headphones, headsets, and IEM lovers let's go
Been looking for a headphone that isn't as fatiguing as my Beyerdynamics but is still on the brighter side. Thanks for sharing these DMS, I'm going to ask Santa for them.
Dad, is that you? You went to the store for an HE-1 and never came back...
So a great Work from Juan.
With the dedication to creating lifelike soundstage I might just have the perfect upgrade from my ultrasones
Lol
It's refreshing to hear an American use the metric system 😅
R.I.P. A90
Loud listeners should also beware I guess.
Ah, yes, the superior system.
@@rem792 oh yea it is! xD dont forget that there was europe with metric systems while america had only indians with horses and sticks, no offence to indians they took really good care of the land that european colony ruined over the years
It's been a really good year for headphone releases it feels🤔
Wow, I made a comment on your video and now it's in the intro of your next video. That's amazing! 😆
"You won't have SLS in your basement"
Hold my beer😂😂😂
I've tuned a few headphones based on my studio monitors, if these were half the price I would buy them.
I would buy them for 700-1000 bucks.
İts just so good; I usually try to shoot for this response on eq.
Just give it a nicer polish.
@@mehmetgurdalfr. It’s like an HD600 with actual bass extension that doesn’t have an unusual honk or upper mid dip like some of the other “better extending” Sennheiser Headphones
People might complain about them being 3d printed. But luxury headphones have destroyed this market by being overweight, resulting in poorer ergonomics and the longevity of the materials used. The hd800 will outlast every meze headphone ever built. Weight and structural elasticity are the fundamental factors to a headphones comfort and longevity, not luxury.
not really, meze craftsmanship is superior in every possible way, I actually work with synthetic materials and every part got their date of production (its not without a reason), their elasticity as you mentioned and environment factors during usage got an impact on their internal structure that could eventually cause a crack, same goes to wooden items if not properly maintain it degrades over time
@@soulfulfool no not really. Thr hd800s tolerances are drastically better than any meze. People had problems with the yolk assembly on the empyrean not being to tolerance, and it's eventually becoming too loose. I don't trust the wood lasting on the 109pro in different climates. Their luxury design and materials make them prone to super extending. Weight is bad in all circumstances. The hd800 is practically invincible because it's the best engineered headphone ever made.
Yeah your point made sense but then you mentioned Meze for some reason? I would definitely think this applies more to Audeze or Focal
Idek what destroyed the market means either lol. There's more good value options then there has ever been in this hobby at any price range. Weird you brought up the hd800 as some kind of market saver when most would say that headphone is pretty expensive for what it is nowadays (still love the headphone though)
@@soulfulfool You just proved his point. Well made headphones DON'T need special treatment to last. The mezes as well as almost all high end headphones are poorly designed.
@@soulfulfool Blain was right about standards for headphone ergonomics and design being very low in this industry. You are proof of that.
Wauuuu! already 3 headphones with one and the same driver! What an anti-distinguishing! Also a good refreshment about the HD800s! And quite interesting, it is like.... but it is a monitoring HF! So it is like .... but it doesn't do exactly what the HD800s is praised for! The the biiiig sound stage and the great imaging.
I have been looking for some new headphones. May give these a try.
I really like your reviews DMS, but PLEASE include the price at the beginning
Would this headphone suit me if I prioritize clarity and soundstage?
How doe these compare to loke the hifiman Arya Organic or HE1000 Stealth?
Definitely the best headphone I've seen so far coming from the amateur/boutique/"I don't know how to design for injection molding/CNC which is why I outsource SLS parts that don't need to be SLS and then proceed to charge USD1k"-wave. As someone who has been daily driving DIY headphones for the past 5 years I definitely love using that front damping setup! Too bad the electrical filter isn't designed properly but I'm sure that can be ironed out. Overall very promising, looking forward to what they do next :)
I personally know how to design for injection/CNC, and I choose SLS/MJF because I want/need the freedom to do complex cavity designs that are single-part, strong, light and easy to assemble. There's a reason aircraft engine manufactures are moving to laser sintering to reduce part complexity, while increasing strength and reducing weight.
If you have suggestions for more economical manufacturing processes with similar durability and quality, while allowing the flexibility to appeal to such a small market, I’m all ears :)
(Remember, sennheiser took about 20 years before even considering updating the HD600 series molds, with fewer parts than this headphone, focal nearly a decade of color variants before introducing major design overhauls)
@@JuanAuribus I remember the gazillion other headphones Sennheiser made in those 20 years with varying degrees of new tooling (remember their HD 500 bionic series with completely new tooling that lastet for 2 years?).
I'm sure you did the math with your expected turnover and came to the conclusion that you won't be able to amortize.
That is perfectly fine, I wouldn't invest in tooling with a run of
@@GrumpiestKitten
We expect to sell units, and currently do. Large investment means larger stakeholders, and scaling beyond what this market may be able to sustain with a new brand.
If you have any sheet metal shop suggestions that can handle spring steel, please drop an email. We’ve gone through a few domestically with quotes triple that of simply 3d printing the headband from solid aluminum. Our usual metal cutters do not support rolling and annealing. The rest of the assembly is solid plastic.
@@killthrash I think it's great that designers are able to take advantage of it. I won't judge anyone for simply using any 3D printing.
As you mentioned it sometimes is the only way to feasibly make a part and for low volume/prototyping it is a godsend.
The problem is inexperienced designers that use it inflationary with the thought process being "cool, only USD25 for this plastic part instead of paying 50k for a mold" which quickly transtions to "for some reason my final sales price is high even though my margins are low".
Interesting you mention aircraft. In a lot of cases these high performance parts aren't 3D printed. The (lost) form is printed, the actual product is cast and finished with CNC. However I wouldn't be suprised to find purely laser sintered metal parts aswell.
These seem pretty decent and they even did you a favour in getting rid of that A90 ;-)
Looking forward to the hfa dahlia review and comparisons to the omega and seirra
Pleaseeeee show the uncompensated graphs!
They remind me of the Austrian Audio design
True…but the Austrians do look more premium though
Will it give me a competitive edge when playing angry bird?
I like headphones. They are goddamn neat.
@@ncf1 I like them too but Also like IEM cause they neater
@@CarlosGarcia-cg4ip Good heavens
If you would need to deside between this headphone and the hd 600 and the hd 490 pro plus for studio use, which one would you chose?
How does compare with an arya stealth?
Is the peerless 50mm the most used driver of all time?
It should be, it's a great driver.
-DMS
Wouldn't a headphone with better imaging and wider sound-stage be better for professionals? Is there a reason why studio monitors are worse for gaming than HD800S when they are reproducing sounds better matching reference grade? This is so confusing, maybe I am just not the target audience for these videos.
monitoring you want narrower soundstage because you care mor about keeping everything "level" initially and then can mess with it in post, gaming it depends on their sound design most games cheap out a lot lol but when it works positional audio is an advantage
Problem with these kinds of great products from small companies is that they're extremely hard to get overseas :(
Send us an email and we’ll get you sorted!
@JuanAuribus "we ship internationally!". Will you also pay for the 40% uplift from import charges? "Well no" then we are not interested. You wouldn't pay $1600 for a headphone you know costs $1100, so neither would anyone else. So tired of Americans not understanding something so basic.
@@JuanAuribus that's not what he's asking. Anything is possible if you habe enough money
Wow an actual review, I thought you guys were locking everything up in hours long Livestreams now
The A90 bit had me laughing so hard lol
what broke your a90 was nothing. when you un/plug TRS amps get shorted. so ur a90 could've died just by playing music loud and replugging the TRS continuously. phonitor amps gotta be muted before plugging TRS, 4 example.
Happened to mine, it was a blown fuse
Look ma, I'm on The Show of Headphones
Hey that’s my line!
@@JuanAuribus I am sorry Juan H. Phone....
Thank you for your reviews. I always enjoy watching your reviews!
Would you mind comparing this to Meze Audio 109 Pro in more details?
I own a pair of 109 Pro, and when you said it's better, I want to try it. :)
My topping L70 and A70 both developed channel imbalances.
"This is is comparable to the 800s." 9:20 in "this is nothing like the 800s"
The duality.
But both are still true.
In some ways, yes. In some ways, no. See?
@@TheHEADPHONEShow i think at this stage it just needs to be a global scale across all channels. IEMs and Headphones need to be ranked 1-100, they need to be ranked higher than 70 to be worth your time. ppl just need to be cold about their rankings. "yeah, its a 60, its unique. but not worth the cost here" most reviewers fear getting cut off from their supply though.
I met Juan and his dad at CanJam SoCal where I tried these headphones. They sound pretty good. Stock tuning is actually better than 90% of headphones I have heard. While I have no doubt that they measure like the HD800s, on my head, they don't sound at all like the HD800s. To me they sound similar to the Austrian Audio composer. It was a good sounding headphone, but like the Composer, nothing really stood out sound wise. Which could, for some people turn out to be a good thing. The construction however......needs a lot of work for headphone in this price range. The headband for example looks and feels like a knock off HD800 headband (because it probably is just that). And the attachment of said headband assembly feels like it will last about 3 months of gentle use. Sound quality is equivalent to a 109 Pro (which is a high compliment). Build quality is more like Sundara quality. I personally would take the 109 Pro over this without hesitation.
Please review Sony MDR-M1
These sound tempting. But…I would love to know how these compare to HE1000se, that I just got recently on the super discounts that are available right now. Besides being lighter, I see no advantage over the Hifiman cans.But…I understand why people build collections of headphones. Hearing is a funny thing, and we absolutely tend to normalize and accommodate to what we are listening to, at least to an extent. Novelty drives everything, from taste to sound and even things like travel. The price is reasonable, and their website there’s a $200 discount as an introduction.
I paid $1,100 for the Hifiman HE1000 v4 Stealth recently. I wouldn’t pay $900 for something 3d printed lmao.
@@bren.r 🤡
Which Mic are You using?
WIDE DMS
SO WIDE
You always talk numbers, yet seldom mention PRICE!
I think the high end headphones market is always pretty interesting there is always some new interesting tech. But the budget segment feels like dying. The only the recent decent release is fiio FT-1 after years of bad releases, and for the ultra budget it's dead with Koss just sitting on it. For these price segment you're forced to go IEMs, but you're kinda left with not a lot of options if you want headphones.
it would be great if you make a review of sennheiser rs 165 or 175
shanling hw600 headphone review please 🙏
"I might just see my comment in the next video"? No way!!!
Damn, I get why you compare them to the focals and meze’s but you can get those headphones for 500$ now, with way better build, especially on the 109 pro, compared to the $1000+ of this guy. So yea if I paid twice the price of a 109 pro or focal clear I’d hope it was a lot better than them
Sound stage is bass dependent. More bass means narrower soundstage. There is not one headphone with HD800 soundstage that has a powerful bass presence and extension. So we use different headphones appropriate to the source material and desired experience.
The 1266?
@@En_Joshi-Godrez If you are talking about soundstage width, even 1266 is smaller than hd800. But soundstage width is just one aspect, and I would say 100$ AKG K701/2 have wider soundstage than HD800 and also less bass, but they are even less enjoyable than HD800. Crazy that everyone says HD800 is soundstage king while its soundstage is not complete at all.
@@tadokorovsky9746 has an enormous soundstage for me but it's so tonally messed up I don't like it.
The Atrium open achieved this for me
Are you high? 😂 Akg k702 doesnt have wider soundstage than hd800. Hd800 have taller, deeper and wider soundstage and better imagine, laying and separation. The center is meh on Akg k7x0 line.
It looks modern.
just a curiosity, one season thing.....
Sierra, Peace
I guess no one is really asking for a linear bass extension. I guess a lot of people have bad taste.
We are carving out a pretty solid niche still :)
There is a gaming company called Sierra that made a game called Empire Earth, the best game ever.
Empire Earth doesn't get nearly enough love. The ability to go from Stone Age cavemen to Nano tech mechs is so fun.
Sierra only published the game. As they did Half-Life, and hundreds other titles.
Man I love hd800
I hate HD800
HD800 i a very special headphone.
Its a master piece! Nothing beats it in comfort, Soundstage and imagine. The driver matching is so tight! And HD800 have very low accoustic impedans.
U need some pretty good amps and runs then balanced to get the most out of them. And if u can EQ a bass shelf and tame the 6k. Its the best headphone u can get if u think of how long it last, and both gaming, music and videos use.
Yes. U can maybe get a headphone like Hifiman HE1000 that can some other things like bass. But nothing do the same party trick with the soundstage and imagine like hd800
It's not a headphone. These are headphones, mate. 2 of them joined to be a pair of headphones. WTF?
They can be as good as they want but man, do they look cheap... If I pay somewhere around 1000$, I expect some quality feel and look, at least.
I'd rather take a Meze 109 any day!
@@timschwarze1739 excactly how I feel.
Both of you are purchase validation ddicts.
@@tednicholson9225Where did I say that? I don't care about what other people think of my purchases. I buy headphones for my own enjoyment, which includes the finish!
Would be nice to have someone else then DMS also review this as he is a competitor to these headphones
I know you guys are more about checking out headphones, but you should check out some of the tgx ear stuff.
No way I am buying a 3D printed object meant for daily use at more than $500 let alone $1000. There are so many problems with the process and I don't believe these are engineering grade filament and have had the long term studies as traditional materials. Also at the high end you shouldn't be so obviously able to identify the fact it was 3D printed even without significant post processing
Hi, thanks for the comments. Just wanted to point out that the primary structure does not use a filament process, the video details our laser sintering process, which forms a near homogenous internal structure comparable to injection molding. Combined with the high strength of nylon, and the solid aluminum headband, these headphones are capable withstanding years of continuous use, and the cups can be removed without tools for incredibly easy driver capsule or headband replacements (the most likely point of failure). Additionally, this headband design has been in continuous testing and revision for years across multiple uses.
We are proud to use cutting edge industrial 3d printing technologies, and the finish reflects our confidence in the technology. That said, we’re always looking for opportunities to improve.
DMS: This is not a type of frequency response in the bass that you can normally get out of an open back headphone, especially not out of an open back dynamic headphone.
Me: Uuummm....AKG K245? Anybody?
But kinda true, most of the open backs are bass anemic. Especially in sub bass region.
K245 didn't have a shelf! Just a steady elevation from the midrange 😄 though it was decent in the bass.
-DMS
@@TheHEADPHONEShow Yeah, sort of like 6XX but at 100-ish Hz and under instead of going down, it just goes up up up.
I like the sound, but the comfort not so much.
Thanks DMS! People who are afraid of snakes may be wary of that headphone at first sight. It’s about the outside of the cups.
I have a 21:9 screen and this doesn't work, at least have it be in focus before you do that but honestly if there's no movement 21:9 is pointless even when it is in focus.
Hey guys, I have got lost into the abyss of the Audio community looking either for a stack or a Dac amp combo around the £500 mark. At present I am leaning towards the Aune S9C. Has anyone got any recommendations. I will be pairing them with the Hifiman Ananda Nano to mix and master music....for fun in my room. Thx
The price, lol, lmao even
Can anyone tell me how this would compare to an IEM? For example, for almost 1/3 the price you could get the Moondrop x Crinacle Dusk? I just ordered the Dusks - also wondering what I can do for the 3.5mm cable, would a THX Onyx help me? Or just change the EQ on my device (a Steam Deck)
This might be the most hilarious comment of the day
@zmmmzmmmz perfect, care to elaborate? Or are you just one of those callous trolls on the internet who thinks acting smug to any small random viewer, and being able to laugh behind your keyboard and screen, shows your superiority of intelligence and esteem in this elite space of self determined Audiophiles.
OMG, another FRUSTRATING review from DMS. I mean if you are going to be this lazy, why even do a review? It just adds to the noise.
1. Price: People listen to reviews to help make a purchasing decision. If this was Susvara Unveiled, you would have said $8k a dozen times. People watching the review still want to know the value prop, so not giving the price and not even linking to it forces folks to do more work than they want.
2 HD800s: People buy 800s for soundstage, not treble. Soundstage is it's trick, not the treble, that's more of an artifact. You said it doesn't compete on Soundstage, so why compare the two at all? Besides, treble is very person specific.
3. Genelac: These are monitoring speakers, yet you've stated these have elevated bass and treble regions so V shapped? Genelac are revealing because they are designed to be studio monitors and not forgiving on purpose to allow for better mixes. This comparison does not make sense and you didn't include any monitoring headphones in comparison.
4. Comparison headphones? 109, Clear, HD800s. Are these competing with anyone of these? Where do these fit in your library? Is this an all-arounder, someones first / best headphone, or is this more of a flavor say chocolate when you get board of vanilla? No idea after this review.
5. Why so much time on the impeadence that blew your A90? Sounds like something better communicated directly to others benchmarking headphones than in an open video where people are trying to make a purchasing decsion. But still worth a mention to those trying to break in headphones, just not a significant part of the video.
Overall, not sure why you made this video. Can anyone make a purchasing decision with this video without even knowing cost? Are folks looking for a headphone that could hurt them in the treble on bad recordings? Is that a good thing? Feels like a lazy, uninspired review just to get something out because you were on deadline. I don't think you did anyone any favors with the review, unless your goal was just to piss people off to get them to engage. It's the only reason I left a comment as I don't get upset easlily and when I do, I tend just to walk away.
just a curiosity, one season thing.....
Click the link and look it up, you goober. Took you longer to cry about it than it would take to just do that.
Sorry for complaining but this video is quite dark. I have to crank my phone brightness to full level to see the whole thing.
My phone is at 50% brightness in a very well lit room and I see it fine. Atmospheric for sure, but not dark for me.
Remember kids, you can’t listen to squiggly lines.
In fact, that's exactly what you do.
Kinda concerning from someone who calls themselves an "audio engineer."
Was interested. Saw the price. Immediately clicked off lol
You sound like an addict
You shouldn't be looking at any headphone purchase if your income is that low.
Not everyone is willing to spend 1100 $ on your addiction. Most normal people think it's crazy actually. For the same reason, you might find it odd to spend 1100$ on a knife or a some Pokemon card.
@@maximgodunov7717 who are you talking to?
gg
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1st! ^_^
1099 us$ for 3d printed headphoens is crazy high. It should be injection moulded. Undestand that the company dont want to make mould and make more money/headphones, but man... its to expensive
If your deciding factor in purchasing is this being glossy with injection mold lines instead of matte plastic I will gladly polish one up for you.
@ lol, its not about the finish.
@@TheN3ckol If you have any suggestions please send them over via our website :)
I can't believe anyone in their right mind would even consider selling a 3d printed product for US$1099. I don't care how good they sound, this is a prototype at best.
Purchase validation addiction
Looks bad. The entire lower+mid treble shelf too elevated.
I wouldn't buy 3d printed anything for a premium. That's just ridiculous. Juan needs to lay off the marijuana 😅
Looks like a sub-100$ headphone.
For 300$ it might be okay for general headphone fans, but for 900$ materials are awful. 3d-printed downgrade.
I hate this aspect ratio and it benefits nobody. It feels claustrophobic and fits almost no common screens well, its almost pretentious. Nice review though!
I love it so let's take it outside💪😤
The pretentiousness makes it better
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