Shoutout to the folks at Effect Audio for sending in the cables for this testing. They're fun people and open-minded themselves. If you go to a CanJam or other audio show, they'll probably be there -- stop by and listen (or roadie wrap) for yourself.
@ Nah, I published the video for paid supporters a few days ago, just made it publicly available today and TH-cam uses that as the publish date I guess.
Great video Mark. But, what you are calling impedance in your multimeter testing is actually resistance. Impedance can only be measured with an AC signal passing through the cable. In order to measure the real impedance of the cable you would have to measure the AC voltage drop it creates on the output of your amplifier. That would require some very expensive test equipment though because the impedances are so low. Just wanted to clear up the differences between resistance and impedance, cheers
Of course you're right but to fully understand the difference between resistive and reactive loads is pretty far beyond what we shuld expect from most people who love audio. That said, any introductory speaker building book with a section on passive crossover design will have enough info to get a good understanding without having to get deep into EE theory.
@@SuperReviewwait what you dont understand electricity and your reviewing cables which primary purpose is to move electricity wtf im blown away by what you just said next your gunna tell me you dont understand sound
@@xXBLAKGOATXx he tested the iem with three different cables and he didn't hear any difference. He tested so many iems... so I'm sure he is able to hear if the sound changes with a different cable or not. Just accept his opinion or go away. Cables are a huge business. It is a legal scam.
Usually expensive stuff make things better, but I always say it’s the opposite when buying cable. Good cable aren’t making your audio better, but bad cable make your audio worst. The comfort from cable and form factor are important too, find a good cable you’re happy with and it will be worth the money.
I appreciate your candor. I share your skepticism about the benefits of high-end cables as it relates to hi-fi audio. At least at the super high end. Other than just maximizing durability and aesthetics it's just not a priority
@@scotteaton963I got the ivipQ from AliExpress as a replacement for my Moondrop S8 cable. Not too thick, has a cinch, has low impedance to not distort the IEM, and less than $20.
Fancy expensive cables are more jewelry than anything that will affect sound. If you want to change the sound, learn to EQ, find optimal tips for comfort, etc.
Yeah and IMO no problem with wanting expensive jewelry. Cables could change sound if they have high impedance, TBH I'm surprised no one seems to sell intentionally high impedance cables for that purpose.
@@SuperReviewI'm the same. I've zero issue with people spending money on expensive cables. The only thing that bothers me is when people tell others it 'upgrades' the sound quality, making people waste money and time on something that doesn't make much difference As long as they don't misinform others, they can spend their money however they like
But isn't this a problem and will it harm even users who just want something good because these things affect the market price, and if the top category is, for example, $5000, a company will consider something compared to $2500 average, and something under 1k will be considered cheap, so whoever buys these wires will be affected. On everyone@@SuperReview
If it's about "jewelry", then why not just get something more "jewelyrish" and maybe more mainstream and therefore impressive? I mean if you buy an IEM cable to impress somebody, then my congratulations - nobody gives a sheet about wired IEMs and cables in general🗿 just buy some fancy watch strap or ring or whatever
4:47 Also, this IEM hangs all the weight on your ear, so why would you want a thick or heavy cord if it were a headphone cord that might make more sense? I did not expect the wire to be this important, but I had an IEM and I liked its sound, but because of the wire, I hated using it, but there comes a point where the wire becomes just nonsense and its price is the same price as the IEM. I end up playing with a good wire. What is the logic in this? Or putting a gold wire to convince people? With a difference of voice or in order to be convinced of owning something expensive
FYI, gold is a worse conductor than copper and silver. Gold is used because it can be hammered into very thin sheets and it is non reactive with air. In electronics it is used to coat silver or copper terminal to protect them from corrosion. Anyway, the whole IEM business has become ridiculous at the high end. I personally hate too thick cables because they are uncomfortable for mobile use.
Mark is my go-to cable reviewer because he likes cables that aren't memory-prone, pliable and easy to handle. I wish there would be a video with regard to his top 10 cables.
I'm not a headphone guy but the principles you outline here are just as valid with high end speaker cables. It's insane what people will pay for no audible difference. Marketing is king!
Yeah for an IEM I really like, I could see myself spending $100 for the perfect cable. Main limit is that the perfect cable is hard to find, especially without feeling it in person.
One thing I wish you had shown was a measurement with the Dusk on the 10 ohm adapter but otherwise I liked the approach here. I will say that it’s worth mentioning that IEMs- especially multi driver IEMs- can have non-linear impedance and different impedance per driver. Regardless, your mental approach has been the best so far and I appreciate that.
The only time I believe we can hear a difference is between poorly made cables and well made cables. Many cheap cables tend to cut corners or are poorly made. But a well made cheap cable sounds just as good as a well made expensive cable. The differences may lie on asthetics, and feel which may give the illusion of sound. I have a very expensive £220 Effect audio Cadmus cable. I have an £18 Tripowin Zonie cable. I can't hear a difference at all. For reference I own some very expensive IEMs like Final Audio A8000. Audeze LCD i3, Westome Mach 70, Fat Freq Maestro SE, and 2 Canpur IEMs. I use Astell and kern SP1000, CA1000, Hifiman Serenade, Gustard R26. There is no difference to my ears with the Cadmus and the Tripowin. Both sound superb. Placebo.
Nice review! Those appear to be very nice cables, but the assertion that they alter sound is ludicrous. Thanks for confirming my impressions. Their contribution is fit, finish, durability and a pretty unique way to adapt to MMCX and two pin. That does allow for added value. It astounds me that someone would pay more a cable than a headphone or IEM. Mind blowing. But I suppose if you can afford to pay $5,000 for a handbag…
Cables definitely can alter sound and provable by science, but the catch to that statement basically involves absurd designs like a quite sizeable capacitor in an IEM crossover, terribly designed cable, or tube amps of absolute radical measurements. In other words, such fringe cases that it's safe to assume cables don't affect sound unless you try extremely hard at a science experiment.
Thanks for explaining the use of the impedance adapter. I have the Red adapter and didn't like how it made the IEM sound. I was also under the impression it only would increase the bass. Now I will try it on more IEMs along with playing with EQ. Happy Holidays!
Yeah, impedance adapters are fun to play with on IEMs! But more fun when you have a measurement rig so you can confirm what's happening because it's hard to predict.
It is the stiffness of the earhook, size of the connector and weight of the cable which makes the difference, because it all affects the fit and insertion depth. As an extreme case I was able to fit one big IEM properly so that the shell would touch the ear only with EW200 stock cable featuring particularly small plastic termination near the 2pin connector. And it did make a huge difference acoustically.
The fact that you have to take the IEMs out of your ears to change cables is more than enough to render all subjective listening tests null and void. You'd have to go through multiple iterations of taking them in and out of your ears before listening to a single track (to somehow optimize the time spent on all this) and then repeating the procedure. And it has to be done either in a span of couple of hours at most, or very long term - like a month or so. That is to make an attempt to either take the changes your hearing undergoes with regards to your physical and psychological condition, or to make an attempt to accomodate for that via a huge increase in testing sessions to the point those changes become statistical noise. And thrn theres still a huge lot if other complicating factors. Measuring the FR via simple (not anatomically accurate) coupler like the "711" with an IEM being firmly attached to it in a fixed position, changing the cables without decoupling the IEM is the best way. Which is basically what you did here. And it seems like you managed to control the IEMs position (entry angle and insertion depth) to a surprising degree! They could have at least make those cables have different impedances...
Went to my local audio store to get a better feeling cable with a highly skeptical mind on cable influencing sound. Just wanted to share my experience. Having tried a dozen cables across 2 of my iems - Elysian Pilgrim and Diva, I learned that for the majority of the cables, the differences were tiny to outright placebo. However for 3 of them, I was genuinely shocked to hear a noticeable difference, especially on the more expensive Diva iems. I returned a month later to test them again and picked out the differences once more. It really changed my stance on cables. They don't always make a difference, but in some combinations of iems and cables, they honestly do. The differences mainly were in a darker background and certain frequencies sounding different. I am not sure if this changes FR as I only had my fallible ears so take what I say as you will. Again, this is just 5-10 percent difference and nothing beats simply changing your iem or music quality. However, if you really love an iem and want to push that remaining few percent to make it perfect, cables can be considered. Just sharing my honest thoughts, a former skeptic. Cables tested, based on memory were 4 different Effect Audio cables, 3 Vortex Audio cables and a handful of affordable Chinese brands. The Vortex Lavinia cable really changed it for me. I decided to pick it up. If you have a chance to try this Hong Kong brand, give it a spin and let me know what you think. 😊
I'm actually more curious about the cheap cable you just showed (white one) because it looked similar to the one that came with the Aful Explorer. I loved that cable and was looking for an extra just in case.
This is the best cable review I've seen. As an electronics engineer, I am deeply sceptical that there is any perceptible difference once you've spent more than perhaps £20, maybe even less. It's nice to see some measurements being done and also nice not to hear the usual hyperbolic nonsense you hear from non-technical reviewers who are quite clearly making it up.
I only did high school physics but even with that one can readily understand how cables work and how much silly gobbledegook snake oil is written about and sold via cable mysticism. Admittedly, I like to 'upgrade' cables... but simply because I enjoy the visual aesthetics of matching a cable to iems 😂😉
I think cables can make some sonic differences but not anything that is necessarily audible to the human ear. However, I think if any sonic differences do exist, it’s most likely due to any of the cable properties that may reduce/increase resistance or any kind of magnetic interference. This is not the same as enhancing certain frequencies. Bottom line, if any differences do exist between “non-audiophile” and “audiophile” cables, an overwhelming majority of people won’t be able to detect that. And besides, the output from an IEM based on a cable is not an indicator of its true sound for better or worse. But Mark hits the nail on the head when he talks about the aestetics or the feel of a cable. I have bought moderately-priced cables that look good and feel good, and, as superficial as this may sound, matches the color aestetic of my IEMs. I think if you want to change the sound of your IEMs, focus on tip rolling. They make a much greater differences outside of EQ-ing that anyone can hear (and measure).
When I saw the video title, I was really scared, oh noooooo, Mark got to pour snake oil like all other reviewers, but I'm really glad I was wrong. You're one of the very very few honest audio reviewers for me and that's worth something, so thanks for that. There is absolutely place for expensive cables in the market, to everyone each own, some are beautiful and jest a jou to touch and look at, but let's be serious, I can't stand to hear again and again, that if you spend xxx bucks or more on a cable, your gear will sound completely different (better of course).
Another thing that might change sound on a cable is by altering the fit. I've definitely experienced this with the hola cable, on U12t, it just sits in a weird angle due to the earhooks being different from the stock cable(and the protruding socket on the iem) That makes treble more glarey.
As long as the cable is built well, comfortable, and the length I need it to be, that's what matters to me. I've never spent a premium on cables throughout my time in the hobby.
I've noticed a difference when I accidentally ordered CCA that took me about 30 minutes to figure out. I noticed a difference once when moving, couldn't find my cables, and wired in some CAT5. But I haven't noticed a difference between appropriate, purpose-built copper cables. I personally think the differences between cables exist only when you dumpster dive for the cables.
In terms of function and looks, after-market cables can be a nice upgrade on cheaper end IEM's for sure. Even to match the color of the IEM's themselves is nice.
The important things concerning me purchasing cables for my iems are microphonic, swappable termination, and how they feel and behave when worn or stored. Moondrop's cables are atrocious, imho, and my main reason for me getting upgrade cables for their iems. Getting more than 100 USD for cables, unless they have really, really great qualities for what I stated before, is a waste of money imho. Thank you for doing this review. It just shows how snake-oily things in the audiophile world can be.
I really like Effect Audio cables for all other aspects aside from sound. Cables not really make much of a difference sonically except for every specific iems, but Effect Audio does everything else right. They look beautiful, feel nice, and are built like they will last for a very very long time. In addition, they seem to have a very aggressive earhook that just adds a lot of fit security for the shape of my ears that no other cable company seems to do (the biggest factor to me, but depending on your ear shape, it can be a con as well).
the only reason to get an aftermarket cable is because the stock ones are typically too stiff, thick, and rigid coated. the differences in the cables, even in the testing method are so minute, you'll get bigger variance in tolerance from the same IEM two units down in the same production run. same goes from tip to tip and how they fit between different people.
Mark reviewing cables was not on my 2024 BINGO card 😂. I'm pretty picky about cables' handling characteristics. The Eros looks nice but it's out of my price range atm and the connectors are a tad tall. I wish these custom cable companies also offered thinner 2-wire weaves that were just as well behaved for those of us who prefer a lighter cable. I'll stick to the Gate cable for the time being. 😉 I appreciate your integrity and honest approach as always.
19:21 hey, kinda like a noob question but can you make a lil video on the differences of basslining a frequency response as opposed to graphed normal? Like, what would be use case of doing that. 19:29 And ALSO, what is the use case of exaggerating FR graphs a bit to where certain 20hz frequencies start at 90dB or 100dB? Does it affect the sound starting in different dB? ☝️🙄 Because i tried to EQ different IEMs graphed from available websites using the same new Bruer 5128 to EQ to my liking but they start in different dB & am confused on how that affects things for me lol
If there is a difference, I would MUCH rather see it measured and displayed in numbers, preferably proving it makes more of a difference than sub millimeter difference in how you fit your headphones in each listen I like hi-fi audio stuff, but I typically take a very analytical approach, cables matter to a point, but I think it's impossible to make a better sounding cable than over 50 euro or so, 100 if you include build quality, and honestly, this is ofc analog, but audiophiles will happily tell you that 2 digital signals sound different, even though, well, they're digital, there is no question in any scientific way if the signals are identical - they absolutely are (for example, I2S vs anything else) Besides, this raises a question - if everyone who made and produced the sounds you're listening to used regular, decent cables on reference headphones, what is the real sound even, which is the original, is there any value gained, and even if the cable makes it sound different, what, objectively, makes it better and not worse? In the same circles vintage gear and vinyl is the craze and both of those usually are provably worse than a good digital reproduction 100 euro would be an extortionate price for a cable, and I would expect a premium, durable AND REPAIRABLE cable for that money, hard for me to imagine any realistic gain from something that's more premium than, for example, the Tripowin Zonie I've been using, its bendy, light, not noisy, sounds good, doesn't tangle, costs less than 20 euro Any cable over 100 is, well, not a scam maybe, but exploitation of rich audiophiles beliefs for sure
I like the cable with the TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero (Blue). It has an L plug which is very important to me, using it with a Qudelix 5k. I tried the LINSOUL Tripowin Zonie 16 Core Silver Plated Cable in 2023, didn't really like it. Bought it in 2.5mm, with the L plug, it broke really easy. The only thing I know is that eartips that fit your ear are really important, love the Spinfit CP155 (M) that I bought, they fit so good, they sometimes get stuck (good seal lmao). To fix that I learned to pull the earlobe down to break the seal when removing the IEMs.
I’m a professional musician (woodwinds), and I did notice a difference between a $30 upgraded cable vs the stock cable on my KZZSNpro IEMS on clips I recorded of my saxophone. But that’s it, I don’t notice any real differences when casually listening to music. But I could tell a difference in the coloring of my sound of saxophone which I’m very critical of and used to analyzing.
I’ve these cable for a while, I love the feel and the termx and conx system where I can use these cable with most of the iem. As for the sound, I don’t hear any difference on any iem I own. I only got these for esthetics and feel. Meanwhile in my community they start talking about burn-in your cable to open up the sound stage and anyone arguing is just a hearing loss idiot. 😂
Good of you to shout-out the company for being willing to subject their product to neutral testing. I think you and others are right to be skeptical of the claims that a cable can make a dramatic difference in performance. It's hard to see how, physically, cable makers can add value to what is just a length of braided copper wire with connections. Even after the signal goes through the cable, it still has to be converted to audio by the IEM and processed by the listener's ear and brain. The last part of the signal chain--the IEM--is what we hear, not the signal coming down the wire. And the quality of the IEM will have a far greater effect on what the listener hears. As indicated by your experience comparing the $24 cable, it's really hard to get a noticeable improvement over a well-made basic cable. Where upgrade cable makers can add value is in areas you noted like no-tangle, no noise or microphonics, and swapable connections at both ends. It should be possible to add those features for a relatively small amount of money, like under $100.
So I've bought 20-30 cables of different prices for my IEMs, and my conclusion is that cables can make a difference, but they often make none (likely because internally they're the same metals), and rarely make a strong difference, but in my cases it's not a difference you would ever want. The world of IEMs is full of tiny differences, but with cables it's like the difference could only be heard in certain cases; IE a certain cable with a certain IEM. With tips and amps the difference is small but usually consistent, the sound difference will never just not show up on say a W1 tip, but with cables it often doesn't show up even if you have good ears. Sometimes it's very subtle, and in those cases its pretty much always something you could do with an EQ filter. So when a cable does make a sound difference I liken it to a very light extra EQ filter. But then there are the edge cases, cables that make a very strong difference that most people could notice but it's distorting, not a positive thing. I have a cable that ads significant bass but also makes things sound very rough; I have a cable that makes the whole midrange incredibly thin; And I have one that is almost like listening to the music down a hallway. None of these were expensive. So while I agree that 90% of cables make no sound difference from stock ones, try a $12 nicehck black cat, and then tell me it doesn't make a difference, and if it doesn't then I might be crazy because that cable is pretty obvious.
It doesn't make a difference. Adding an EQ filter will make a difference. You can even visualize it on Squiglink. Changing to W1 ear tips will make a difference, you can measure it. Changing a cable will not make a difference, you can measure and confirm. There is no physical attribute to explain a cable universally adding bass or thinning out the midrange. You have the capacity to prove this to yourself with a blind test, but no one does it.
Electrical engineer here. :) Another gotcha on the topic of impedance/resistance: A typical handheld DMM (even a very expensive one) is not capable of accurately measuring the tiny resistance of audio cables. The cable resistance is much, much lower than the resistance of the probes themselves (mostly contact resistance at the probe tips). To make accurate measurements below 1 ohm, a 4-wire measurement is required to factor out probe resistance. Fancy benchtop DMMs can do this. I expect the actual resistance of these cables is much less than the 0.2 ohms that you saw on your DMM, meaning they have even less impact on IEM FR than your results suggest.
@@SuperReview A DMM measures resistance by passing a fixed current through the probes and whatever you're measuring, and then measuring the voltage drop. With Ohm's Law, V = I*R, we can calculate resistance when the current and voltage are known. The problem is that any resistance in the test leads also adds to the voltage drop, which creates error in the measurement. It's a small error, so it only matters when measuring small resistances. 4-wire measurement solves this problem by using one pair of wires (probes) that supply the current, and another set that measures the voltage drop across just the component. No current flows in the voltage sense probes, so there's no voltage error. Expensive laboratory DMM's have this feature built in. You can replicate it yourself with a constant current source (not hard to DIY if you're so inclined) and a regular DMM (in mV mode).
Another thing to consider when measurement resistence: These 0.2Ω could just be the resistence between the multimeter tips, if so, "no resistence at all".
could you tell me the model and where I can buy the measurement rig you use.... I have a special use that I think this would work Im seeing it at marker 15:51 thanks
I used to be skeptical about IEM accessories changing how they sound, from ear tips, different DAC/AMPs and cables. So far I tested a few DAC/AMPs and they really do have different effects on the IEM. For the ear tips, there was no difference in using a different one for Kefine Klean, but when I changed my Aful P5+2 to memory foam, it sounded significantly better so I'm sold to the idea that ear tips do matter. Now for the cables, I tried window shopping online and saw Effect audio selling them for ridiculous prices and got me thinking maybe they also matter. This video just gave me all the information I need about the cables, thanks! I'm still kinda new to this audiophile stuff, hope I get to see more videos like these.
I have lots of cables and have never heard a single difference between any of them... but I still own lots of cables because it's nice having a good quality cable that matches your IEM's appearance.
oh I have bought so many more cables for iems just to make them look nicer and feel more special and hey, if I see the iem with the cool cable, it makes me happy and music sounds better
Nice feel is important. But also less feel too. I like a lighter cable, so I am using the soft Tripowin Zonie most of the time. Light, soft and not plastic coated. And inexpensive. Chevy Malibu vs. Cadillac. Both are cars to get you there. Enjoy an expensive cable if you want, but not much benefit audibly.
personal experience - going from lampcord speaker wire to Goertz flat copper = noticeable positive difference. Going from the free interconnect you get with gear to pure silver = noticeable positive difference. Beyond a certain level I'm sure it's diminishing returns
I've seen very little difference in cables overall as well, other than the annoyance factor involving cheap or microphonic cables. However, I recently bought a graphene cable for a particular high end and sensitive IEM that made a huge difference. That plus a change in tips transformed my experience from probably sell to definitely keep.
Any one knows if the left and right channel wires are interwoven on purpose? Is it to increase crosstalk? I listen to stereo speakers most of the time and we keep L and R channels far apart.
*impedance is total restance with capacitance and inductance taken into account. You measured resistance which is not sensitive to frequency* Adding 10 Ohms to a cable is a 100x difference on a cable discrepancy of 0.1 Ohms 😅 Overal impedance with LCR in consideration is not going to affect FR of audio band between two cables of 1.2M for 1< Ohm units.
The funny thing is that most cheapo cables (like that one from Gate or smth like Tripowin Grace ~15$ cable with mic) are probably going to have less microphonics than these thickkk cables. Yeah they look nice, but is it worth 200$+? Maybe some owners could elaborate on it?
Thank you for the honest opinions, great video as always! The outer plastic layer on the Eros reminds me a lot of the cable of the Dunu Mirai, do they have a similar behavior/looks/feeling?
@SuperReview in my honest opinion the Dunu Mirai stock cable it's one of the best feeling and behaving cables I have tried so far, if you happen to have one I would advice you to try it!
I already know that cables pretty much do nothing in terms of "sound upgrade" to the IEM as I tried it myself with 3 cables (cheap as they may be). However, I used to always use my Tripowin Zonie cable over my KZ and Moondrop cable just because 1) it's prettier 2) more manageable. I think a lot of people see expensive pretty cable and couldn't justify buying it for the looks alone thus they fool themselves into thinking that it upgrades the sound. That's my guess anyway. That matte cable looks gorgeous btw. I wish I could buy expensive cables for my P7 but the stock cable do just fine (and it looks good too). What I would wish from the cable market though is pretty cables with microphones at the 10-2p0 USD price range since I listen to music on my phone and it sucks when you have to unplug the IEM to be able to answer the call.
Some of these comments kinda crack me up. Youve basically done the audiophile equivalent of claiming that Jesus wasn't real. You're attacking audiophiles faith. (Keep it up. The more people that come to their senses, the better)
I agree that build quality and features are key. But the difference in materials also plays a part in it... Unlike speaker cables... due to the length... some of the benefits in terms of geometry are insignificant when looking at IEMs. Shorter cables don't have to worry about interference like longer cables, so less need for shielding although the weave looks cool. Edit: Just to add. You do have a measurable difference between your cheap cable and these... however it is so small that you cannot distinguish between them. You also asked about the differences in material. High grade copper vs silver coated copper. The idea is that the better copper 5N is better than lesser grade copper. Then the silver coated will have lower impedance over copper because the silver has a lower impedance. And a step further would be pure silver wiring. But cost goes up. Where you do have a greater impact is on component and build quality. Also in terms longevity. Personally its the features that will drive my decision. The changeable connections for example.
The average speaker voice coil contains about 100 feet of very fine wire, which is somewhere between 28 and 36 gauge, depending on the speaker. Then, there are multiple drivers and a crossover network and the speaker cable. The load seen by the amplifier is the sum of the above. Putting a multi-hundred or multi-thousand dollar cable at the front of this load does very little, if anything at all, to affect the sound. The fancy cable represents a tiny fraction of the load seen by the amp. High end cables are a marketing ploy, pure and simple, and not an honest one at that. They can't add anything to the sound, they can only take away. They are not a component. Electrons do not travel any better through pretty wire.
What an amazing video man! Very honest, fair approach to testing everything and excellent explanations for everything. I do think that some cables have improvements sonically over others, but in most cases the improvements only come in appearance and feel. It would be interesting to see a comparison with some of Penon’s cables; in my experience they have a very obvious effect on their IEMs - again, probably down to resistance values.
I would suggest you could compare the two options using an A/B switch and consider using two or three of the same IEM for them. I understand that comparing with 15-20 seconds of audio gap is challenging, which is why an A/B comparison would be more effective. I believe that cable quality is overhyped. While a higher-end cable may offer some physical benefits, such as a flat design or reduced microphonics, these differences are often subtle and not significant enough to justify the additional cost. I am in the same boat. I might spend up to $80. That's about it. So far found some good aftermarket cables for about $25 that are fantastic. $300? Ya hell no. lol.
Agree an A-B switch would be a good way to close the gap, but (1) you'll still have a gap as you switch earphones, and (2) the unit variation between multiple models of the same IEM or headphone is orders of magnitude more significant than the difference between the cables.
I think cables are snake oil with a caveat of looks and build, can add a feelgood factor to the user, a more important thing to consider is tip rolling, Now that matters it may improve the sound, also it could make it sound worse thats the nature of the hobby imo!
Yeah tips (and pads for headphones) make a multiple-orders-of-magnitude bigger difference than cables, but for some reason don't get nearly as much mythology behind . That's actually a really interesting point to think on.
The only reason for me to buy an expensive cable (over $100 that is) is if I have extra money to burn, and want something that is tangle-free, comfortable (earhooks and Y splitter weight) soft, aesthetically pleasing, and quality build. As long as it's properly shielded, a more expensive cable won't "improve the sound"
Until I got the the 6-8k spot at 19:05, I didn't think you were showing all of the lines yet, but red peaks out just a teeeeeeny bit. The point of "upgrade" cables for me, is purely for a comfort and visual perspective. For example, the garbage stock cable on the Kato was shorter than every other cable for an iem I owned at the time, it was stiff with loads of memory, and thus super uncomfortable. A $20 tripowin cable fixed all of that and I actually used it afterward
Yeah I should've made that graph overlap clearer. Funny enough, I just yoinked my KATO cable to put on my Dusk (replacing the cable I showed in this video).
The braid construction was pioneered by Kimber Kable a US company started by Ray Kimber back in 1979. I suggest you try their entry level model and do a video on that. I can assure you it will be worth your while.
Can you please do a burn-in vs non burn-in test of headphones? Seems like you could do this in a similar way to your cable tests. Just as with cables I've always been very skeptical about speaker burn in, and suspect it really just placebo or the user getting familiar to a new sound signature.
Thanks for the video. And for testing with an open mind, and with methods that should show if there was an unexpected result despite any skepticism going in. I think the context you added in the discussion was good too, so people can think about it/judge the product in an informed way, and talk about it with the benefit of what well-established science can say on the topic at the moment. (I do personally believe some aspects of audio may be undiscovered to science, but that we have a big bulk of it mapped out so far, and that there's probably a lot of situations where what's left to discover will be negligible or not apply meaningfully.) Back to these cables: they are nice premium products, I hope people can accept that that's all they're guaranteed to be getting, is the aesthetics (visuals, physical feel) of the cable, maybe its heft making it feel "awesome" but it doesn't have to change the sound to fulfill that. And a solid aesthetics/feel can arguably be got cheaper if that's what people want. But if people do on the other hand want to splurge I don't see a problem with it honestly. It maybe speaks to the need for companies not to market these on sound benefits when it can't easily or reliably be demonstrated/proven to actually deliver on that... But it would be a lonely day for the first company to do that, when literally every other audio product is marketed as making the sound good. So, yeah, it's kind of a buyer beware thing, I wish the audio products would be marketed in a less fluffed/exaggerated way, but it's really an industry-wide problem.
I find impedance adapters only work best with single DD IEMs & headphones. Multi driver IEMs and BAs have produced weird effects with impedance adapters. but I do like like what they do for the Tanchjim Origin, IE600, and the softears Twlight.
The vast majority of single DD IEMs, impedance adapters do absolutely nothing as single DD IEMs as a rule have entirely linear impedance curves. Single DD headphones usually have a non-linear impedance curve with a boost in the bass. I THINK this may be related to the respective size of the drivers, but don't quote me on that. For the Tanchjim Origin and IE600, impedance adapter does nothing except reduce the volume. I have these and I've measured this, with a 20Ω adapter.
@blorg8206 I don't have a measuring rig, but I find 25 or 50 ohm adapters do make the IEMs I listed sound different to me. I get tired of people who are either entirely measurement pilled, or entirely snake oil pilled, in this hobby. Just let people like what they like.
“The word on the street is” … that the big thing about cables is copper vs silver content. Silver is the best conductor. Of the top four conductors (Silver, Platinum, Copper, Gold), copper is the most economical.
I do buy cables which go up to around £150 & honestly this is because I want nice looking cables, I have heard a difference on a couple of cables but it's very slight & I find tip rolling to give more of a difference in sound compared to cables.
I personally with my mind don't believe iem cable is affecting the sound perception besides it's resistance value, but I clearly hearing or maybe thinking I am hearing the difference with my ears 🤕
Impedance. It's all about impedance. If cable manufacturers would measure the impedance of their cables, consumers could accurately choose a cable to achieve a specific effect. Otherwise, it's all horseshit.
< thinkingguy.gif > Here's the thing with understanding impedance that changes FR: It absolutely can destroy the sound e.g. 17:30 Though I'd be surprised if any "hifi" cable has impedance that high, mostly you'll get that kind of impedance from source gear (amps, DACs, audio interfaces, headphone jacks on cheap motherboards).
I use this type of cable for internal wiring on projects…much better than a single wire also the braided wires are noise canceling and has a fuller sound than a single piece of wire . And it’s much cheaper than what they are asking for here? $10. A meter ! Not $200. ? It can transform your system or your projects ! Also a very big issue is the balance between the two cables, no two cables measures the same ? Check for yourself ! Every cable and every input and output is off by what ever percentage ? Measure all your cables in pairs measure all your inputs and outputs and add up the differences ? And you will be concerned or disappointed ? Depending on how much you have spent on equipment and cables…you can buy matched tubes or capacitors or resistors , but no cables come matched ? Your system is not matched your inputs and outputs are not matched , so most of the things that you are trying to improve is your systems imbalance and that is audible ! Your CD player or dac or whatever source you are using is not equal at the outputs if you don’t have trim pots on the board there’s not much you can do ? So when you swap cables sometimes you can be making up for system imbalance ? I think this could solve a lot of the controversy on this subject , or something else to look into before buying and piece of gear to improve the sound ! Once again add up all your components and see how far off you are and try to get as many as possible balanced to your system ! Actually you would have to go through pairs cables to find a matched pair ? By the same manufacturer . And taking the time to do the same thing with your sources ! Don’t care how much you spent on your gear…it’s off !
i have some difference quality of cables, they did sound differs. some performs better, and some performs a,lot better. just need to test it mix an match to have your great quality of music.
Shoutout to the folks at Effect Audio for sending in the cables for this testing. They're fun people and open-minded themselves. If you go to a CanJam or other audio show, they'll probably be there -- stop by and listen (or roadie wrap) for yourself.
Why does it say edited 4d ago but was also uploaded an hour ago? Glitch lol?
@@JohnDoe-iv5ns Maybe it was released to the patreon users first?
@@mikesoke oh, hadn't thought of that
@ Nah, I published the video for paid supporters a few days ago, just made it publicly available today and TH-cam uses that as the publish date I guess.
no words. just eye contact and roadie wrapping
Great video Mark. But, what you are calling impedance in your multimeter testing is actually resistance. Impedance can only be measured with an AC signal passing through the cable. In order to measure the real impedance of the cable you would have to measure the AC voltage drop it creates on the output of your amplifier. That would require some very expensive test equipment though because the impedances are so low. Just wanted to clear up the differences between resistance and impedance, cheers
One day I will understand electricity.
Of course you're right but to fully understand the difference between resistive and reactive loads is pretty far beyond what we shuld expect from most people who love audio. That said, any introductory speaker building book with a section on passive crossover design will have enough info to get a good understanding without having to get deep into EE theory.
@@SuperReviewwait what you dont understand electricity and your reviewing cables which primary purpose is to move electricity wtf im blown away by what you just said next your gunna tell me you dont understand sound
@@xXBLAKGOATXx he tested the iem with three different cables and he didn't hear any difference. He tested so many iems... so I'm sure he is able to hear if the sound changes with a different cable or not. Just accept his opinion or go away. Cables are a huge business. It is a legal scam.
@@xXBLAKGOATXxcontext here is about how them cables making any difference on how IEM sound.
Usually expensive stuff make things better, but I always say it’s the opposite when buying cable. Good cable aren’t making your audio better, but bad cable make your audio worst.
The comfort from cable and form factor are important too, find a good cable you’re happy with and it will be worth the money.
I appreciate your candor. I share your skepticism about the benefits of high-end cables as it relates to hi-fi audio. At least at the super high end. Other than just maximizing durability and aesthetics it's just not a priority
Yeah I like swapping cables for aesthetics and ergonomics, though TBH a lot of the time I end up preferring cheaper cables for those attributes.
@SuperReview can you recommend some good inexpensive cables?
@@scotteaton963 Moondrop Chu 2 and Truthear Gate cables.
@@SuperReview do you have other cable recommendations for just cables without IEMs?
@@scotteaton963I got the ivipQ from AliExpress as a replacement for my Moondrop S8 cable. Not too thick, has a cinch, has low impedance to not distort the IEM, and less than $20.
Thank you Mark, much needed video for the whole community
Fancy expensive cables are more jewelry than anything that will affect sound. If you want to change the sound, learn to EQ, find optimal tips for comfort, etc.
Yeah and IMO no problem with wanting expensive jewelry. Cables could change sound if they have high impedance, TBH I'm surprised no one seems to sell intentionally high impedance cables for that purpose.
@@SuperReviewI'm the same. I've zero issue with people spending money on expensive cables. The only thing that bothers me is when people tell others it 'upgrades' the sound quality, making people waste money and time on something that doesn't make much difference
As long as they don't misinform others, they can spend their money however they like
But isn't this a problem and will it harm even users who just want something good because these things affect the market price, and if the top category is, for example, $5000, a company will consider something compared to $2500 average, and something under 1k will be considered cheap, so whoever buys these wires will be affected. On everyone@@SuperReview
@@SuperReview Completely fair, I buy things on looks all the time.
If it's about "jewelry", then why not just get something more "jewelyrish" and maybe more mainstream and therefore impressive? I mean if you buy an IEM cable to impress somebody, then my congratulations - nobody gives a sheet about wired IEMs and cables in general🗿 just buy some fancy watch strap or ring or whatever
4:47
Also, this IEM hangs all the weight on your ear, so why would you want a thick or heavy cord if it were a headphone cord that might make more sense?
I did not expect the wire to be this important, but I had an IEM and I liked its sound, but because of the wire, I hated using it, but there comes a point where the wire becomes just nonsense and its price is the same price as the IEM. I end up playing with a good wire. What is the logic in this? Or putting a gold wire to convince people? With a difference of voice or in order to be convinced of owning something expensive
FYI, gold is a worse conductor than copper and silver. Gold is used because it can be hammered into very thin sheets and it is non reactive with air. In electronics it is used to coat silver or copper terminal to protect them from corrosion.
Anyway, the whole IEM business has become ridiculous at the high end. I personally hate too thick cables because they are uncomfortable for mobile use.
THANK YOU for this honest and detailed video on this topic that reaffirms my findings as well... 👌
Mark is my go-to cable reviewer because he likes cables that aren't memory-prone, pliable and easy to handle. I wish there would be a video with regard to his top 10 cables.
I'm not a headphone guy but the principles you outline here are just as valid with high end speaker cables. It's insane what people will pay for no audible difference. Marketing is king!
It may be insane, but it sure is fun!
@@SuperReview So true. I have some relatively expensive speaker cables, but there's no way I'm spending over 500 dollars haha.
Great video!
I can see everyone's interest in this issue.
Of course, so am I.
Perfect review as usual 👌🏼
Great video sir! ☺️
Finally. We learned about IEM cables
Thank you !
audiophile cables make a HUGE difference.... to the folks that sell them
Very well done Mark, this is good work.
Great video, the best I've seen about higher priced cables. I buy cables cause they look cool...$100 is about tops for me. Those do look fabulous...
Yeah for an IEM I really like, I could see myself spending $100 for the perfect cable. Main limit is that the perfect cable is hard to find, especially without feeling it in person.
One thing I wish you had shown was a measurement with the Dusk on the 10 ohm adapter but otherwise I liked the approach here. I will say that it’s worth mentioning that IEMs- especially multi driver IEMs- can have non-linear impedance and different impedance per driver. Regardless, your mental approach has been the best so far and I appreciate that.
Yeah that would've been a good idea.
The only time I believe we can hear a difference is between poorly made cables and well made cables. Many cheap cables tend to cut corners or are poorly made. But a well made cheap cable sounds just as good as a well made expensive cable.
The differences may lie on asthetics, and feel which may give the illusion of sound.
I have a very expensive £220 Effect audio Cadmus cable. I have an £18 Tripowin Zonie cable. I can't hear a difference at all.
For reference I own some very expensive IEMs like Final Audio A8000. Audeze LCD i3, Westome Mach 70, Fat Freq Maestro SE, and 2 Canpur IEMs.
I use Astell and kern SP1000, CA1000, Hifiman Serenade, Gustard R26.
There is no difference to my ears with the Cadmus and the Tripowin. Both sound superb.
Placebo.
Nice review! Those appear to be very nice cables, but the assertion that they alter sound is ludicrous. Thanks for confirming my impressions. Their contribution is fit, finish, durability and a pretty unique way to adapt to MMCX and two pin. That does allow for added value. It astounds me that someone would pay more a cable than a headphone or IEM. Mind blowing. But I suppose if you can afford to pay $5,000 for a handbag…
Cables definitely can alter sound and provable by science, but the catch to that statement basically involves absurd designs like a quite sizeable capacitor in an IEM crossover, terribly designed cable, or tube amps of absolute radical measurements. In other words, such fringe cases that it's safe to assume cables don't affect sound unless you try extremely hard at a science experiment.
Appericiate your feedbacks regarding cables bro. Good video.
ついについにやってくれた！ありがとう！
ただ、周波数特性にZ軸方向のインパルス応答を加えたウォーターフォールのグラフを見てみたかったです。
あとはケーブルのインピーダンスは周波数によっても変化するかもしれないのでそれも測定して欲しかったのと、ケーブルの持つ静電容量も測定して欲しかったです…
Thanks for explaining the use of the impedance adapter. I have the Red adapter and didn't like how it made the IEM sound. I was also under the impression it only would increase the bass. Now I will try it on more IEMs along with playing with EQ. Happy Holidays!
Yeah, impedance adapters are fun to play with on IEMs! But more fun when you have a measurement rig so you can confirm what's happening because it's hard to predict.
It is the stiffness of the earhook, size of the connector and weight of the cable which makes the difference, because it all affects the fit and insertion depth.
As an extreme case I was able to fit one big IEM properly so that the shell would touch the ear only with EW200 stock cable featuring particularly small plastic termination near the 2pin connector. And it did make a huge difference acoustically.
Small plastic 2-pin connectors FTW
The fact that you have to take the IEMs out of your ears to change cables is more than enough to render all subjective listening tests null and void. You'd have to go through multiple iterations of taking them in and out of your ears before listening to a single track (to somehow optimize the time spent on all this) and then repeating the procedure. And it has to be done either in a span of couple of hours at most, or very long term - like a month or so. That is to make an attempt to either take the changes your hearing undergoes with regards to your physical and psychological condition, or to make an attempt to accomodate for that via a huge increase in testing sessions to the point those changes become statistical noise.
And thrn theres still a huge lot if other complicating factors.
Measuring the FR via simple (not anatomically accurate) coupler like the "711" with an IEM being firmly attached to it in a fixed position, changing the cables without decoupling the IEM is the best way.
Which is basically what you did here. And it seems like you managed to control the IEMs position (entry angle and insertion depth) to a surprising degree!
They could have at least make those cables have different impedances...
Went to my local audio store to get a better feeling cable with a highly skeptical mind on cable influencing sound. Just wanted to share my experience. Having tried a dozen cables across 2 of my iems - Elysian Pilgrim and Diva, I learned that for the majority of the cables, the differences were tiny to outright placebo. However for 3 of them, I was genuinely shocked to hear a noticeable difference, especially on the more expensive Diva iems. I returned a month later to test them again and picked out the differences once more. It really changed my stance on cables. They don't always make a difference, but in some combinations of iems and cables, they honestly do. The differences mainly were in a darker background and certain frequencies sounding different. I am not sure if this changes FR as I only had my fallible ears so take what I say as you will. Again, this is just 5-10 percent difference and nothing beats simply changing your iem or music quality. However, if you really love an iem and want to push that remaining few percent to make it perfect, cables can be considered. Just sharing my honest thoughts, a former skeptic. Cables tested, based on memory were 4 different Effect Audio cables, 3 Vortex Audio cables and a handful of affordable Chinese brands. The Vortex Lavinia cable really changed it for me. I decided to pick it up. If you have a chance to try this Hong Kong brand, give it a spin and let me know what you think. 😊
I'm actually more curious about the cheap cable you just showed (white one) because it looked similar to the one that came with the Aful Explorer. I loved that cable and was looking for an extra just in case.
This is the best cable review I've seen. As an electronics engineer, I am deeply sceptical that there is any perceptible difference once you've spent more than perhaps £20, maybe even less. It's nice to see some measurements being done and also nice not to hear the usual hyperbolic nonsense you hear from non-technical reviewers who are quite clearly making it up.
I only did high school physics but even with that one can readily understand how cables work and how much silly gobbledegook snake oil is written about and sold via cable mysticism. Admittedly, I like to 'upgrade' cables... but simply because I enjoy the visual aesthetics of matching a cable to iems 😂😉
I think cables can make some sonic differences but not anything that is necessarily audible to the human ear. However, I think if any sonic differences do exist, it’s most likely due to any of the cable properties that may reduce/increase resistance or any kind of magnetic interference. This is not the same as enhancing certain frequencies.
Bottom line, if any differences do exist between “non-audiophile” and “audiophile” cables, an overwhelming majority of people won’t be able to detect that. And besides, the output from an IEM based on a cable is not an indicator of its true sound for better or worse.
But Mark hits the nail on the head when he talks about the aestetics or the feel of a cable. I have bought moderately-priced cables that look good and feel good, and, as superficial as this may sound, matches the color aestetic of my IEMs. I think if you want to change the sound of your IEMs, focus on tip rolling. They make a much greater differences outside of EQ-ing that anyone can hear (and measure).
Yep 👍
Thank you for the lesson!
When I saw the video title, I was really scared, oh noooooo, Mark got to pour snake oil like all other reviewers, but I'm really glad I was wrong. You're one of the very very few honest audio reviewers for me and that's worth something, so thanks for that. There is absolutely place for expensive cables in the market, to everyone each own, some are beautiful and jest a jou to touch and look at, but let's be serious, I can't stand to hear again and again, that if you spend xxx bucks or more on a cable, your gear will sound completely different (better of course).
Another thing that might change sound on a cable is by altering the fit. I've definitely experienced this with the hola cable, on U12t, it just sits in a weird angle due to the earhooks being different from the stock cable(and the protruding socket on the iem) That makes treble more glarey.
As long as the cable is built well, comfortable, and the length I need it to be, that's what matters to me. I've never spent a premium on cables throughout my time in the hobby.
Great review! It's nice to see someone that actually providing objective measurements for this hobby.
I've noticed a difference when I accidentally ordered CCA that took me about 30 minutes to figure out. I noticed a difference once when moving, couldn't find my cables, and wired in some CAT5. But I haven't noticed a difference between appropriate, purpose-built copper cables. I personally think the differences between cables exist only when you dumpster dive for the cables.
In terms of function and looks, after-market cables can be a nice upgrade on cheaper end IEM's for sure. Even to match the color of the IEM's themselves is nice.
As you pointed out very well, impedance is what matters. Same impedance = same electrical signal = same sound
The important things concerning me purchasing cables for my iems are microphonic, swappable termination, and how they feel and behave when worn or stored. Moondrop's cables are atrocious, imho, and my main reason for me getting upgrade cables for their iems. Getting more than 100 USD for cables, unless they have really, really great qualities for what I stated before, is a waste of money imho. Thank you for doing this review. It just shows how snake-oily things in the audiophile world can be.
I really like Effect Audio cables for all other aspects aside from sound. Cables not really make much of a difference sonically except for every specific iems, but Effect Audio does everything else right. They look beautiful, feel nice, and are built like they will last for a very very long time. In addition, they seem to have a very aggressive earhook that just adds a lot of fit security for the shape of my ears that no other cable company seems to do (the biggest factor to me, but depending on your ear shape, it can be a con as well).
Cable is the least of my priorities, eartips can change sound a lot more.
Agreed, but maybe ear tips don't look as cool or something.
@SuperReview Agreed, hope the manufacturers don't start making cool looking eartips and charging us double prices lol.
@@Musicophile-p5l 🤣
12:49 do you have a link or name for this cable?
TRI Grace Pro
the only reason to get an aftermarket cable is because the stock ones are typically too stiff, thick, and rigid coated. the differences in the cables, even in the testing method are so minute, you'll get bigger variance in tolerance from the same IEM two units down in the same production run. same goes from tip to tip and how they fit between different people.
Unit variation is real.
Mark reviewing cables was not on my 2024 BINGO card 😂. I'm pretty picky about cables' handling characteristics. The Eros looks nice but it's out of my price range atm and the connectors are a tad tall. I wish these custom cable companies also offered thinner 2-wire weaves that were just as well behaved for those of us who prefer a lighter cable. I'll stick to the Gate cable for the time being. 😉
I appreciate your integrity and honest approach as always.
Glad I'm not the only one who notices connectors being excessively tall.
19:21 hey, kinda like a noob question but can you make a lil video on the differences of basslining a frequency response as opposed to graphed normal? Like, what would be use case of doing that.
19:29 And ALSO, what is the use case of exaggerating FR graphs a bit to where certain 20hz frequencies start at 90dB or 100dB? Does it affect the sound starting in different dB?
☝️🙄 Because i tried to EQ different IEMs graphed from available websites using the same new Bruer 5128 to EQ to my liking but they start in different dB & am confused on how that affects things for me lol
If there is a difference, I would MUCH rather see it measured and displayed in numbers, preferably proving it makes more of a difference than sub millimeter difference in how you fit your headphones in each listen
I like hi-fi audio stuff, but I typically take a very analytical approach, cables matter to a point, but I think it's impossible to make a better sounding cable than over 50 euro or so, 100 if you include build quality, and honestly, this is ofc analog, but audiophiles will happily tell you that 2 digital signals sound different, even though, well, they're digital, there is no question in any scientific way if the signals are identical - they absolutely are (for example, I2S vs anything else)
Besides, this raises a question - if everyone who made and produced the sounds you're listening to used regular, decent cables on reference headphones, what is the real sound even, which is the original, is there any value gained, and even if the cable makes it sound different, what, objectively, makes it better and not worse? In the same circles vintage gear and vinyl is the craze and both of those usually are provably worse than a good digital reproduction
100 euro would be an extortionate price for a cable, and I would expect a premium, durable AND REPAIRABLE cable for that money, hard for me to imagine any realistic gain from something that's more premium than, for example, the Tripowin Zonie I've been using, its bendy, light, not noisy, sounds good, doesn't tangle, costs less than 20 euro
Any cable over 100 is, well, not a scam maybe, but exploitation of rich audiophiles beliefs for sure
But obsessing over millimeter-length movements of the headphone on my head isn't as fun as copper vs. silver.
@SuperReview that's real tho
I like the cable with the TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero (Blue).
It has an L plug which is very important to me, using it with a Qudelix 5k.
I tried the LINSOUL Tripowin Zonie 16 Core Silver Plated Cable in 2023, didn't really like it. Bought it in 2.5mm, with the L plug, it broke really easy.
The only thing I know is that eartips that fit your ear are really important, love the Spinfit CP155 (M) that I bought, they fit so good, they sometimes get stuck (good seal lmao). To fix that I learned to pull the earlobe down to break the seal when removing the IEMs.
This is probably why I don't do much cables :')
It's hard and very... touchy subject...
I’m a professional musician (woodwinds), and I did notice a difference between a $30 upgraded cable vs the stock cable on my KZZSNpro IEMS on clips I recorded of my saxophone. But that’s it, I don’t notice any real differences when casually listening to music. But I could tell a difference in the coloring of my sound of saxophone which I’m very critical of and used to analyzing.
I’ve these cable for a while, I love the feel and the termx and conx system where I can use these cable with most of the iem.
As for the sound, I don’t hear any difference on any iem I own.
I only got these for esthetics and feel.
Meanwhile in my community they start talking about burn-in your cable to open up the sound stage and anyone arguing is just a hearing loss idiot. 😂
The ConX feature is pretty unique 👍
Good of you to shout-out the company for being willing to subject their product to neutral testing. I think you and others are right to be skeptical of the claims that a cable can make a dramatic difference in performance. It's hard to see how, physically, cable makers can add value to what is just a length of braided copper wire with connections. Even after the signal goes through the cable, it still has to be converted to audio by the IEM and processed by the listener's ear and brain. The last part of the signal chain--the IEM--is what we hear, not the signal coming down the wire. And the quality of the IEM will have a far greater effect on what the listener hears.
As indicated by your experience comparing the $24 cable, it's really hard to get a noticeable improvement over a well-made basic cable. Where upgrade cable makers can add value is in areas you noted like no-tangle, no noise or microphonics, and swapable connections at both ends. It should be possible to add those features for a relatively small amount of money, like under $100.
15 kHz is dead to me. I can't hear anything above 11K nowadays, but I'm still enjoying the music.
Have you done an reviews for moderately priced IEM cables with built in boom mics? I need a decent set for gaming.
So I've bought 20-30 cables of different prices for my IEMs, and my conclusion is that cables can make a difference, but they often make none (likely because internally they're the same metals), and rarely make a strong difference, but in my cases it's not a difference you would ever want. The world of IEMs is full of tiny differences, but with cables it's like the difference could only be heard in certain cases; IE a certain cable with a certain IEM. With tips and amps the difference is small but usually consistent, the sound difference will never just not show up on say a W1 tip, but with cables it often doesn't show up even if you have good ears. Sometimes it's very subtle, and in those cases its pretty much always something you could do with an EQ filter. So when a cable does make a sound difference I liken it to a very light extra EQ filter. But then there are the edge cases, cables that make a very strong difference that most people could notice but it's distorting, not a positive thing. I have a cable that ads significant bass but also makes things sound very rough; I have a cable that makes the whole midrange incredibly thin; And I have one that is almost like listening to the music down a hallway. None of these were expensive. So while I agree that 90% of cables make no sound difference from stock ones, try a $12 nicehck black cat, and then tell me it doesn't make a difference, and if it doesn't then I might be crazy because that cable is pretty obvious.
It doesn't make a difference.
Adding an EQ filter will make a difference. You can even visualize it on Squiglink. Changing to W1 ear tips will make a difference, you can measure it. Changing a cable will not make a difference, you can measure and confirm. There is no physical attribute to explain a cable universally adding bass or thinning out the midrange. You have the capacity to prove this to yourself with a blind test, but no one does it.
Electrical engineer here. :)
Another gotcha on the topic of impedance/resistance: A typical handheld DMM (even a very expensive one) is not capable of accurately measuring the tiny resistance of audio cables. The cable resistance is much, much lower than the resistance of the probes themselves (mostly contact resistance at the probe tips). To make accurate measurements below 1 ohm, a 4-wire measurement is required to factor out probe resistance. Fancy benchtop DMMs can do this.
I expect the actual resistance of these cables is much less than the 0.2 ohms that you saw on your DMM, meaning they have even less impact on IEM FR than your results suggest.
How's the 4-wire measurement work?
@@SuperReview A DMM measures resistance by passing a fixed current through the probes and whatever you're measuring, and then measuring the voltage drop. With Ohm's Law, V = I*R, we can calculate resistance when the current and voltage are known. The problem is that any resistance in the test leads also adds to the voltage drop, which creates error in the measurement. It's a small error, so it only matters when measuring small resistances.
4-wire measurement solves this problem by using one pair of wires (probes) that supply the current, and another set that measures the voltage drop across just the component. No current flows in the voltage sense probes, so there's no voltage error.
Expensive laboratory DMM's have this feature built in. You can replicate it yourself with a constant current source (not hard to DIY if you're so inclined) and a regular DMM (in mV mode).
Another thing to consider when measurement resistence: These 0.2Ω could just be the resistence between the multimeter tips, if so, "no resistence at all".
I am definitely sub-layman with a multimeter.
18:27 lmao, thought for a moment that only one of the cables measurements were on screen
Yeah watching it back, I should've made the point that you're looking at three different-colored graphs right now 🤣
could you tell me the model and where I can buy the measurement rig you use.... I have a special use that I think this would work Im seeing it at marker 15:51 thanks
It's a standard IEC 711 clone coupler, but held in one of these: capraaudio.com/product/iec-711-iem-holder/
I used to be skeptical about IEM accessories changing how they sound, from ear tips, different DAC/AMPs and cables. So far I tested a few DAC/AMPs and they really do have different effects on the IEM. For the ear tips, there was no difference in using a different one for Kefine Klean, but when I changed my Aful P5+2 to memory foam, it sounded significantly better so I'm sold to the idea that ear tips do matter.
Now for the cables, I tried window shopping online and saw Effect audio selling them for ridiculous prices and got me thinking maybe they also matter. This video just gave me all the information I need about the cables, thanks! I'm still kinda new to this audiophile stuff, hope I get to see more videos like these.
I have lots of cables and have never heard a single difference between any of them... but I still own lots of cables because it's nice having a good quality cable that matches your IEM's appearance.
oh I have bought so many more cables for iems just to make them look nicer and feel more special
and hey, if I see the iem with the cool cable, it makes me happy and music sounds better
Nice feel is important. But also less feel too. I like a lighter cable, so I am using the soft Tripowin Zonie most of the time. Light, soft and not plastic coated. And inexpensive. Chevy Malibu vs. Cadillac. Both are cars to get you there. Enjoy an expensive cable if you want, but not much benefit audibly.
personal experience - going from lampcord speaker wire to Goertz flat copper = noticeable positive difference. Going from the free interconnect you get with gear to pure silver = noticeable positive difference. Beyond a certain level I'm sure it's diminishing returns
I've seen very little difference in cables overall as well, other than the annoyance factor involving cheap or microphonic cables. However, I recently bought a graphene cable for a particular high end and sensitive IEM that made a huge difference. That plus a change in tips transformed my experience from probably sell to definitely keep.
I also have noticed that audible difference between a graphene and copper cables
Any one knows if the left and right channel wires are interwoven on purpose? Is it to increase crosstalk? I listen to stereo speakers most of the time and we keep L and R channels far apart.
*impedance is total restance with capacitance and inductance taken into account. You measured resistance which is not sensitive to frequency*
Adding 10 Ohms to a cable is a 100x difference on a cable discrepancy of 0.1 Ohms 😅
Overal impedance with LCR in consideration is not going to affect FR of audio band between two cables of 1.2M for 1< Ohm units.
The funny thing is that most cheapo cables (like that one from Gate or smth like Tripowin Grace ~15$ cable with mic) are probably going to have less microphonics than these thickkk cables. Yeah they look nice, but is it worth 200$+? Maybe some owners could elaborate on it?
I have two ares s cables for my Andromeda and atlas and they do indeed change the sound at least for me.
Thank you for the honest opinions, great video as always!
The outer plastic layer on the Eros reminds me a lot of the cable of the Dunu Mirai, do they have a similar behavior/looks/feeling?
I don't think I got to use the stock Mirai cable :(
@SuperReview in my honest opinion the Dunu Mirai stock cable it's one of the best feeling and behaving cables I have tried so far, if you happen to have one I would advice you to try it!
I already know that cables pretty much do nothing in terms of "sound upgrade" to the IEM as I tried it myself with 3 cables (cheap as they may be). However, I used to always use my Tripowin Zonie cable over my KZ and Moondrop cable just because 1) it's prettier
2) more manageable. I think a lot of people see expensive pretty cable and couldn't justify buying it for the looks alone thus they fool themselves into thinking that it upgrades the sound. That's my guess anyway.
That matte cable looks gorgeous btw. I wish I could buy expensive cables for my P7 but the stock cable do just fine (and it looks good too).
What I would wish from the cable market though is pretty cables with microphones at the 10-2p0 USD price range since I listen to music on my phone and it sucks when you have to unplug the IEM to be able to answer the call.
Oh man, inline mics on cables, we might fight over that.
@@SuperReviewat least for people who listens on the phones. 😅😅
Some of these comments kinda crack me up. Youve basically done the audiophile equivalent of claiming that Jesus wasn't real.
You're attacking audiophiles faith.
(Keep it up. The more people that come to their senses, the better)
seems far and away the consensus take here
Audiophile can't even tell fake FLAC and the real one 😂
Did you already demonstrate somewhere how you customize the earhooks if they don't fit comfortably?
No, still need to do that.
I agree that build quality and features are key.
But the difference in materials also plays a part in it...
Unlike speaker cables... due to the length... some of the benefits in terms of geometry are insignificant when looking at IEMs.
Shorter cables don't have to worry about interference like longer cables, so less need for shielding although the weave looks cool.
Edit:
Just to add. You do have a measurable difference between your cheap cable and these... however it is so small that you cannot distinguish between them.
You also asked about the differences in material. High grade copper vs silver coated copper. The idea is that the better copper 5N is better than lesser grade copper.
Then the silver coated will have lower impedance over copper because the silver has a lower impedance. And a step further would be pure silver wiring. But cost goes up.
Where you do have a greater impact is on component and build quality. Also in terms longevity.
Personally its the features that will drive my decision. The changeable connections for example.
The average speaker voice coil contains about 100 feet of very fine wire, which is somewhere between 28 and 36 gauge, depending on the speaker. Then, there are multiple drivers and a crossover network and the speaker cable. The load seen by the amplifier is the sum of the above. Putting a multi-hundred or multi-thousand dollar cable at the front of this load does very little, if anything at all, to affect the sound. The fancy cable represents a tiny fraction of the load seen by the amp.
High end cables are a marketing ploy, pure and simple, and not an honest one at that. They can't add anything to the sound, they can only take away. They are not a component. Electrons do not travel any better through pretty wire.
What an amazing video man! Very honest, fair approach to testing everything and excellent explanations for everything. I do think that some cables have improvements sonically over others, but in most cases the improvements only come in appearance and feel. It would be interesting to see a comparison with some of Penon’s cables; in my experience they have a very obvious effect on their IEMs - again, probably down to resistance values.
I would suggest you could compare the two options using an A/B switch and consider using two or three of the same IEM for them. I understand that comparing with 15-20 seconds of audio gap is challenging, which is why an A/B comparison would be more effective. I believe that cable quality is overhyped. While a higher-end cable may offer some physical benefits, such as a flat design or reduced microphonics, these differences are often subtle and not significant enough to justify the additional cost. I am in the same boat. I might spend up to $80. That's about it. So far found some good aftermarket cables for about $25 that are fantastic. $300? Ya hell no. lol.
Agree an A-B switch would be a good way to close the gap, but (1) you'll still have a gap as you switch earphones, and (2) the unit variation between multiple models of the same IEM or headphone is orders of magnitude more significant than the difference between the cables.
@@SuperReview Why you Gotta make sense and shit.... 🤣
I think cables are snake oil with a caveat of looks and build, can add a feelgood factor to the user, a more important thing to consider is tip rolling, Now that matters it may improve the sound, also it could make it sound worse thats the nature of the hobby imo!
Yeah tips (and pads for headphones) make a multiple-orders-of-magnitude bigger difference than cables, but for some reason don't get nearly as much mythology behind . That's actually a really interesting point to think on.
Do good cables help prolong the source batteries of daps by at least increasing analogue signal efficiency?
Highly doubt it.
The only reason for me to buy an expensive cable (over $100 that is) is if I have extra money to burn, and want something that is tangle-free, comfortable (earhooks and Y splitter weight) soft, aesthetically pleasing, and quality build. As long as it's properly shielded, a more expensive cable won't "improve the sound"
Until I got the the 6-8k spot at 19:05, I didn't think you were showing all of the lines yet, but red peaks out just a teeeeeeny bit. The point of "upgrade" cables for me, is purely for a comfort and visual perspective. For example, the garbage stock cable on the Kato was shorter than every other cable for an iem I owned at the time, it was stiff with loads of memory, and thus super uncomfortable. A $20 tripowin cable fixed all of that and I actually used it afterward
Yeah I should've made that graph overlap clearer. Funny enough, I just yoinked my KATO cable to put on my Dusk (replacing the cable I showed in this video).
The braid construction was pioneered by Kimber Kable a US company started by Ray Kimber back in 1979.
I suggest you try their entry level model and do a video on that. I can assure you it will be worth your while.
A Tripowin cable for 15$ is of excellent quality and non-microphonic and will just do the job.
You didn't mention what other equipment you used (DAC and so on...)
Can you please do a burn-in vs non burn-in test of headphones? Seems like you could do this in a similar way to your cable tests. Just as with cables I've always been very skeptical about speaker burn in, and suspect it really just placebo or the user getting familiar to a new sound signature.
I did this a few years ago: th-cam.com/video/0dkUyduX63I/w-d-xo.html
Good stuff!
Thanks for the video. And for testing with an open mind, and with methods that should show if there was an unexpected result despite any skepticism going in. I think the context you added in the discussion was good too, so people can think about it/judge the product in an informed way, and talk about it with the benefit of what well-established science can say on the topic at the moment. (I do personally believe some aspects of audio may be undiscovered to science, but that we have a big bulk of it mapped out so far, and that there's probably a lot of situations where what's left to discover will be negligible or not apply meaningfully.)
Back to these cables: they are nice premium products, I hope people can accept that that's all they're guaranteed to be getting, is the aesthetics (visuals, physical feel) of the cable, maybe its heft making it feel "awesome" but it doesn't have to change the sound to fulfill that. And a solid aesthetics/feel can arguably be got cheaper if that's what people want. But if people do on the other hand want to splurge I don't see a problem with it honestly.
It maybe speaks to the need for companies not to market these on sound benefits when it can't easily or reliably be demonstrated/proven to actually deliver on that... But it would be a lonely day for the first company to do that, when literally every other audio product is marketed as making the sound good. So, yeah, it's kind of a buyer beware thing, I wish the audio products would be marketed in a less fluffed/exaggerated way, but it's really an industry-wide problem.
Bro any chance of reviewing the tangzu legend and simgot et142?
Don't think so.
Recommendations on headphone cables?
Softears VolumeS review next week?
I find impedance adapters only work best with single DD IEMs & headphones. Multi driver IEMs and BAs have produced weird effects with impedance adapters. but I do like like what they do for the Tanchjim Origin, IE600, and the softears Twlight.
They can work well with some multi-driver IEMs, it's just unpredictable without measuring.
The vast majority of single DD IEMs, impedance adapters do absolutely nothing as single DD IEMs as a rule have entirely linear impedance curves. Single DD headphones usually have a non-linear impedance curve with a boost in the bass. I THINK this may be related to the respective size of the drivers, but don't quote me on that. For the Tanchjim Origin and IE600, impedance adapter does nothing except reduce the volume. I have these and I've measured this, with a 20Ω adapter.
@blorg8206 I don't have a measuring rig, but I find 25 or 50 ohm adapters do make the IEMs I listed sound different to me. I get tired of people who are either entirely measurement pilled, or entirely snake oil pilled, in this hobby. Just let people like what they like.
ive broken cables because i chew on them without realizing. i probably should get any of these
They might taste good though.
Do NOT buy electrostatic headphones, you're gonna die by electrocution one day from chewing through tha cable
@DumbOrangeFrog yummy electricity
“The word on the street is” … that the big thing about cables is copper vs silver content. Silver is the best conductor. Of the top four conductors (Silver, Platinum, Copper, Gold), copper is the most economical.
I would also test other IEMs
Reason being is like for crossovers that IEMs can use it might get in the way.
I do buy cables which go up to around £150 & honestly this is because I want nice looking cables, I have heard a difference on a couple of cables but it's very slight & I find tip rolling to give more of a difference in sound compared to cables.
I personally with my mind don't believe iem cable is affecting the sound perception besides it's resistance value, but I clearly hearing or maybe thinking I am hearing the difference with my ears 🤕
It's fun.
Either it will sound warmer or clearer
This is why i love this channel
Impedance. It's all about impedance. If cable manufacturers would measure the impedance of their cables, consumers could accurately choose a cable to achieve a specific effect. Otherwise, it's all horseshit.
They never do because then people would calculate f3 and find it to be way above audible.
Expensive cables always improve the sound. How come they never make the sound worse?
< thinkingguy.gif >
Here's the thing with understanding impedance that changes FR: It absolutely can destroy the sound e.g. 17:30
Though I'd be surprised if any "hifi" cable has impedance that high, mostly you'll get that kind of impedance from source gear (amps, DACs, audio interfaces, headphone jacks on cheap motherboards).
I use this type of cable for internal wiring on projects…much better than a single wire also the braided wires are noise canceling and has a fuller sound than a single piece of wire . And it’s much cheaper than what they are asking for here? $10. A meter ! Not $200. ?
It can transform your system or your projects ! Also a very big issue is the balance between the two cables, no two cables measures the same ? Check for yourself ! Every cable and every input and output is off by what ever percentage ? Measure all your cables in pairs measure all your inputs and outputs and add up the differences ? And you will be concerned or disappointed ? Depending on how much you have spent on equipment and cables…you can buy matched tubes or capacitors or resistors , but no cables come matched ? Your system is not matched your inputs and outputs are not matched , so most of the things that you are trying to improve is your systems imbalance and that is audible ! Your CD player or dac or whatever source you are using is not equal at the outputs if you don’t have trim pots on the board there’s not much you can do ? So when you swap cables sometimes you can be making up for system imbalance ? I think this could solve a lot of the controversy on this subject , or something else to look into before buying and piece of gear to improve the sound ! Once again add up all your components and see how far off you are and try to get as many as possible balanced to your system ! Actually you would have to go through pairs cables to find a matched pair ?
By the same manufacturer . And taking the time to do the same thing with your sources ! Don’t care how much you spent on your gear…it’s off !
i have some difference quality of cables, they did sound differs. some performs better, and some performs a,lot better. just need to test it mix an match to have your great quality of music.
Maybe they affect driver decay? Rather than frequency response.