thanks alot guys i needed a pep talk i dont think people realize why you have to charge what you do i was giving my stuff away and people were still complaining then i would tell them make it yourself and see how you get on i havnt seen anything like i make yet ha ha thanks again
Caveat emptor. I am always willing to pay for quality and quality is self evident. Anyone who thinks they will buy a quality bow for next to nothing is a fool. Keep up the good work.
Very wise advice! As an IT-Pro I am used to people expecting to fix anything for free as I do not use any tools. The time it took me learning the skills and gain experience is never counted. Also "I just have been sitting there in front of the PC", it just do not count what you do, even if someone is not able to do it him/ her- self. Even choosing the right wood, storing and seasoning it already costs money, not to talk about the hours of work going into it. Plus all the other stuff Richard mentions. Often forgotten, and funny that noone is asking when buying a car...
Well done guys. as a manager I have had to explain this a few times in the past to other staff who see the sell price and think their wages should be increased. It was so funny when I took a random job, sat them down, broke down all the costs and actually showed that due to their excessive site time the lost job actually lost money. I always thought it would be a higher average of 10 hours to make a bow. You learn every day.
I rebuild steam traction engines for a living, its much easier for me as there are fewer steam engine repair shops than bowyers. I think of a number that will buy my yacht i times it by two and add a happy tax onto that. i already have a 14 foot yacht, my wife calls it my dinghy. Least i hope shes talking about my yacht. great video guys thank you, and lets keep the small business alive
Sage advice, thank you both. When it comes to repairs ( & and any job ) I was taught to remember to charge not for the 5 minutes it might take to do, but for the years it took to learn how to do it !
Great video!! I was a luthier (builder of stringed musical instruments) for 15 years and learned very well the lessons of underpricing and overpricing my instruments. One thing I would add to your video is that of “market pricing”. In other words, you cannot sell products, no matter how well made, for prices that are significantly higher than similarly produced products by similarly experienced and “well respected” builders. A product that sits in inventory because no one will pay that price (no matter how fair) is not making you any money. We found that we also had to make products that could be priced lower than our professional grade in order to assure a reliable cash flow stream. Even with that, we learned we also had to offer accessories, books, and our offering our expertise, at a cost, to help with the income stream from our instruments. Thanks for this extremely detailed view of the craftsman’s most difficult dilemma. You guys are the best. Stay safe, well and we wish you continued success!!! We absolutely love your videos.
Yup. Toughest part is adding up all the overhead and figuring the hourly rate. Great video. Glad I wasn't the only one struggling with justifying the cost and hourly rate.
You guys are great. Love u for doing this. I tried to explain this for a long time on a more basic Level, but u did that much better. Thank you, dear Brothers in Arms.
I fully agree, a good well made product will cost more than an inferior one, not rocket science, every business should make a profit of some kind, keep up the good work 🤘
Hi guys, What an informative video. As you said, there's a lot of people out there selling bows at cost price and forgetting how many hours it's look to make. I love making bows for myself, but being disabled a bow could take 3 months to make. Not very profitable. Take care and Stay safe.
If I charged $5 am hour, my bows would sell for about $500!! Not counting beer, cigarettes and drugs. Lol. U guys have helped me alot since I started watching u. Im having better luck now and am learning from my many mistakes. I have 2 glued and clamped right now that I tried something different on. Im a house painter by trade and do some drywall repairs and have used alot of fiberglass mesh tape for drywall patches and thought to myself " what if I put a layer of mesh tape between the laminates?" So I tried a few test pieces (made from my very large and growing pile of scrap) and it over doubled the strength. Thanks again gentlemen.
Well needed video! When I was taught this stuff in furniture college they said similar things about people making furniture as a hobby, where their underselling would undermine the full time 'profession' cabinet makers by depricateting the consumers perceived value of the products. We refer to them as 'secondary career, makers'. It's fantastic seeing people contributing to the craft/industry and if they charged more, not only will there be personal gains but boost the entire community.
Great video, very insightful. I couldn’t bring myself to charge anyone until I got better and more efficient. My hours worked on a bow would be massive because I’m so slow haha.
Great Vid. I have been self employed since 1984. When I started this, it was because I wanted to control the hours of my day. Who knew there were actually 24 of them in a day? I only wish I could ever get by on get by on 40 hours per week.
Your videos are invaluable. I'm getting into bow making. I don't really have anywhere to do it so I'm building a workbench right now and will build a tiller next. I'm doing this from just free/scrap wood or mdf. Once the bench is totally sturdy I have some poplar/aspen I pickled up from the park to practice my tools. I'm just not having much luck finding the wood to make a real bow with.
Personally as a potential buyer I would love to get a proper longbow from yourselves. But it just isn’t in my budget. I will watch. I will wait. And one day I will be able to buy one. Hopefully. Can’t say how others can trust an unknown bow maker with the risks involved.
On the contrary, this is exactly what i needed to hear. Not sure if the quality of bow u get for 100$. but good staves cost at least that. Anyone who selling products they know can be better for same price, good at ya! But for the bowyers that will sell nothing less than a piece of wood that born of weapons and beauty need to be given fair dollar. especially primitive n traditional that take a long time to make if sinew and rawhide aded. I think the top makers will thrive, the people who make bows for the love and put food on table will begin to see the results of “playing with wood everyday” what wives may think. after u determine what your time n products are worth, where do u go from there, n advice for developing your brand or getting known in a particular area.
On another note, I would be willing to shoot a bow I had made, just as I am willing to shoot a rifle I have restored, but I would not feel safe selling either to the public. Nor would I be willing buy and to shoot a bow made by a punter on e-bay.
Also being in the craft sector, it's really difficult, people dont appreciate the hours you put in and expect to get something that might put you at an effective pay rate of £3 an hour.
Thanks for sharing. The problem is that in the place where I live average salary is about 6000 $ pet year... And people sell longbows for 60, 70 ... up to 100$.
Really enjoyed your video .i have a question in another of your videos you showed an old Victorian longbow you bought with no nocks and the velvet was missing. I have one similar i was told its made from lemon wood has the nocks crushed blue velvet stamped Lawrence and son Dublin 30 so most likely a laides longbow was given a date around 1840 or so can you make a guess at its value much appreciated.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. I have no idea what the going rate for antique Longbows is, you would need to ask a collector, like Hugh Soar, he is on Facebook.
Skilled craftsmen should charge at least £40 an hour. Cost of materials should include wastage, so double your costs, not actual costs to yourself. If it takes a day, £500 a day is basic needed wage. A basic ash bow costs £200. Triple laminate is more than 3 times the work. Yew bought from a shop costs £450, and takes 8 months for making. Learning to make them yourself is good, as a job, no way. Arts and crafts are for making things you cannot afford to purchase. Stunning work, my grandads workshop was exactly like yours, he made my bows.
I wonder how much you're charging me for making this vid! OK, it is a priceless video.But will it make my bank account bend or break? Keep up the good work;-)
A craftsman knows their worth. Quality is not cheap,. A large percentage of my life, as a frame carpenter, where we (my brother and I) cheap no, did builders pay the price yes. Only the individuals know their worth and charge accordingly. Opinion of a ole fool quality isn't cheap
Yes, a craftsman should know their worth, sadly we see many people `underselling` the craft, it can be difficult to explain this to some people, I am glad to hear you sold your items at a correct level.
thanks alot guys i needed a pep talk i dont think people realize why you have to charge what you do i was giving my stuff away and people were still complaining then i would tell them make it yourself and see how you get on i havnt seen anything like i make yet ha ha thanks again
Caveat emptor. I am always willing to pay for quality and quality is self evident. Anyone who thinks they will buy a quality bow for next to nothing is a fool. Keep up the good work.
That bow on the tiller behind you looks interesting!
It is!
Very wise advice! As an IT-Pro I am used to people expecting to fix anything for free as I do not use any tools. The time it took me learning the skills and gain experience is never counted. Also "I just have been sitting there in front of the PC", it just do not count what you do, even if someone is not able to do it him/ her- self.
Even choosing the right wood, storing and seasoning it already costs money, not to talk about the hours of work going into it. Plus all the other stuff Richard mentions.
Often forgotten, and funny that noone is asking when buying a car...
Yes, its not always easy for people to understand.
Well done guys. as a manager I have had to explain this a few times in the past to other staff who see the sell price and think their wages should be increased. It was so funny when I took a random job, sat them down, broke down all the costs and actually showed that due to their excessive site time the lost job actually lost money. I always thought it would be a higher average of 10 hours to make a bow. You learn every day.
Your channel has brought back my passion to build bows, especially the English Longbow.
Wow, I am honoured! I hope your passion doesn't fade.
I rebuild steam traction engines for a living, its much easier for me as there are fewer steam engine repair shops than bowyers. I think of a number that will buy my yacht i times it by two and add a happy tax onto that.
i already have a 14 foot yacht, my wife calls it my dinghy. Least i hope shes talking about my yacht.
great video guys thank you, and lets keep the small business alive
Excellent, glad you are still going.
Sage advice, thank you both. When it comes to repairs ( & and any job ) I was taught to remember to charge not for the 5 minutes it might take to do, but for the years it took to learn how to do it !
Great point!
Quality doesn’t cost - It pays!
Great video!! I was a luthier (builder of stringed musical instruments) for 15 years and learned very well the lessons of underpricing and overpricing my instruments. One thing I would add to your video is that of “market pricing”. In other words, you cannot sell products, no matter how well made, for prices that are significantly higher than similarly produced products by similarly experienced and “well respected” builders. A product that sits in inventory because no one will pay that price (no matter how fair) is not making you any money. We found that we also had to make products that could be priced lower than our professional grade in order to assure a reliable cash flow stream. Even with that, we learned we also had to offer accessories, books, and our offering our expertise, at a cost, to help with the income stream from our instruments. Thanks for this extremely detailed view of the craftsman’s most difficult dilemma. You guys are the best. Stay safe, well and we wish you continued success!!! We absolutely love your videos.
Yup. Toughest part is adding up all the overhead and figuring the hourly rate. Great video. Glad I wasn't the only one struggling with justifying the cost and hourly rate.
You guys are great. Love u for doing this. I tried to explain this for a long time on a more basic Level, but u did that much better. Thank you, dear Brothers in Arms.
Glad you like it
Nice and honest advice and info. Guys.
Thanks for watching!
I fully agree, a good well made product will cost more than an inferior one, not rocket science, every business should make a profit of some kind, keep up the good work 🤘
Hi guys,
What an informative video.
As you said, there's a lot of people out there selling bows at cost price and forgetting how many hours it's look to make.
I love making bows for myself, but being disabled a bow could take 3 months to make.
Not very profitable.
Take care and Stay safe.
If I charged $5 am hour, my bows would sell for about $500!! Not counting beer, cigarettes and drugs. Lol. U guys have helped me alot since I started watching u. Im having better luck now and am learning from my many mistakes. I have 2 glued and clamped right now that I tried something different on. Im a house painter by trade and do some drywall repairs and have used alot of fiberglass mesh tape for drywall patches and thought to myself " what if I put a layer of mesh tape between the laminates?" So I tried a few test pieces (made from my very large and growing pile of scrap) and it over doubled the strength. Thanks again gentlemen.
So true thank you
Its definitely a craft not a supermarket sale as us amatuer bowyers know it's very time consuming...
Keep up the good work
Thanks for watching
Well needed video! When I was taught this stuff in furniture college they said similar things about people making furniture as a hobby, where their underselling would undermine the full time 'profession' cabinet makers by depricateting the consumers perceived value of the products. We refer to them as 'secondary career, makers'. It's fantastic seeing people contributing to the craft/industry and if they charged more, not only will there be personal gains but boost the entire community.
Brilliant advice, thanks so much for doing this. Good fun video, plenty of solid information to digest too for any small business really.
Great video, very insightful.
I couldn’t bring myself to charge anyone until I got better and more efficient. My hours worked on a bow would be massive because I’m so slow haha.
Great Vid. I have been self employed since 1984. When I started this, it was because I wanted to control the hours of my day. Who knew there were actually 24 of them in a day?
I only wish I could ever get by on get by on 40 hours per week.
Your videos are invaluable. I'm getting into bow making. I don't really have anywhere to do it so I'm building a workbench right now and will build a tiller next. I'm doing this from just free/scrap wood or mdf. Once the bench is totally sturdy I have some poplar/aspen I pickled up from the park to practice my tools.
I'm just not having much luck finding the wood to make a real bow with.
Personally as a potential buyer I would love to get a proper longbow from yourselves. But it just isn’t in my budget. I will watch. I will wait. And one day I will be able to buy one. Hopefully.
Can’t say how others can trust an unknown bow maker with the risks involved.
On the contrary, this is exactly what i needed to hear. Not sure if the quality of bow u get for 100$. but good staves cost at least that.
Anyone who selling products they know can be better for same price, good at ya! But for the bowyers that will sell nothing less than a piece of wood that born of weapons and beauty need to be given fair dollar. especially primitive n traditional that take a long time to make if sinew and rawhide aded. I think the top makers will thrive, the people who make bows for the love and put food on table will begin to see the results of “playing with wood everyday” what wives may think.
after u determine what your time n products are worth, where do u go from there, n advice for developing your brand or getting known in a particular area.
interesting, cheers!
Thank you! Cheers!
On another note, I would be willing to shoot a bow I had made, just as I am willing to shoot a rifle I have restored, but I would not feel safe selling either to the public. Nor would I be willing buy and to shoot a bow made by a punter on e-bay.
Also being in the craft sector, it's really difficult, people dont appreciate the hours you put in and expect to get something that might put you at an effective pay rate of £3 an hour.
Thanks for sharing. The problem is that in the place where I live average salary is about 6000 $ pet year... And people sell longbows for 60, 70 ... up to 100$.
Sheesh.
Really enjoyed your video .i have a question in another of your videos you showed an old Victorian longbow you bought with no nocks and the velvet was missing. I have one similar i was told its made from lemon wood has the nocks crushed blue velvet stamped Lawrence and son Dublin 30 so most likely a laides longbow was given a date around 1840 or so can you make a guess at its value much appreciated.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. I have no idea what the going rate for antique Longbows is, you would need to ask a collector, like Hugh Soar, he is on Facebook.
@@longbows much appreciated i dont have Facebook but thank you for the kind reply.
Google The Craft Guild of Traditional Bowyers and Fletcher's, you can get hold of Hugh there.
@@longbows thank you kindly i really appreciated that .
Off topic question, I'm dying of curiosity - what is that unusal second arrow to the left? Looks like metal fletching from here 😁
th-cam.com/video/v8nb07SQbmY/w-d-xo.html
Thanks to cheap knock offs from you know where so many thing are taken for granted these days !
indeed
Skilled craftsmen should charge at least £40 an hour. Cost of materials should include wastage, so double your costs, not actual costs to yourself. If it takes a day, £500 a day is basic needed wage. A basic ash bow costs £200. Triple laminate is more than 3 times the work. Yew bought from a shop costs £450, and takes 8 months for making. Learning to make them yourself is good, as a job, no way. Arts and crafts are for making things you cannot afford to purchase. Stunning work, my grandads workshop was exactly like yours, he made my bows.
Thank you, sorry for late reply.
I wonder how much you're charging me for making this vid! OK, it is a priceless video.But will it make my bank account bend or break? Keep up the good work;-)
Your time in watching it, how much is that worth?
@@longbows That's a good one.
I think the bow I would like to buy would cost $628 from you.
A craftsman knows their worth. Quality is not cheap,. A large percentage of my life, as a frame carpenter, where we (my brother and I) cheap no, did builders pay the price yes. Only the individuals know their worth and charge accordingly. Opinion of a ole fool quality isn't cheap
Yes, a craftsman should know their worth, sadly we see many people `underselling` the craft, it can be difficult to explain this to some people, I am glad to hear you sold your items at a correct level.
If you buy a car, you don´to pay for the materials, and the assembly only. You also pay for the engineering.
and the advertising
And all this time I was charging 19.99$ for hand crafted bows uhh..😔 jk
Dude in China Frinking, "Hahahaha, an They frink We are Oplessed, "
Well thats's twenty Free minutes I know God made go extra fast, thankyou My Lord!