Hi Lacey! This is exactly why I struggle with Jack Daniels' principle of capping long runs at 2.5 hours. A lot of his advice aligns well with young athletes running sub-3 hour marathons and that's just not where most of the population is at! I find most people can handle 3.5 hours and recover appropriately as long as they are running their easy pace.
It's always bothered me how videos were suggesting a 20 mile long run in one segment and later saying the long run should be no more than 25% weekly mileage, and I'm thinking "I've got no intention of running 80 mile weeks to make that possible". But with a bit of flexibility and allowing a 20 mile run in a 50 mile week one the gradual build up gets you there, this sounds far more pragmatic. Subscribed
Hi Dave - yeah, 25% is going to be very tough for most. I've learned so much from Jack Daniels and many consider his work to be the running bible, but his coaching style leans much more toward helping the very young and/or very fast.
I run long on Saturday and take Sunday off. My goal is to still feel tired from the long run on Monday but not on Tuesday. If I have accomplished that, then I'm good. Wish me luck today: 20 miles on the treadmill!
I ran my first marathon yesterday (4:02:08) with my longest run at 17 miles. I cramped a bit towards the end but looking around me, everyone was hurting. Consistency > longest long run.
Definitely. Consistency over time and building mileage gradually week after week, month after month and year after year is what will allow you to keep reaching goals! The long run is important, but it's only one factor. And congrats on completing your first marathon - that's a BIG deal!
Nice first marathon, congratulations! Yeah, my last two marathons had long runs capped at 16 miles and they were only 10 minutes slower than my PR 12 years ago. You obviously worked the rest of the plan and it paid off! Nice work!
Superb video, esp for my first marathon attempt. Did one 20 mi run, took me 4 hours. -40% of weekly can be LR -LR is not the only imp run -max LR ~80-85% finish time, so will run 4 hrs and hopefully 20-21 miles- The way you explain is so soothing to hear. Thanks
So glad you talked about this Jane, what I got is that every person is different. I am training for my first marathon in over 20 years and I was following a plan that has 18 miles as the longest run and for me just didn't feel right, mentally is a big factor to complete the 20, so I decided to combine a couple of training plans that fit my needs and of course I am including the 20 miler. I just found your channel a few weeks ago and I am thrilled! Love the content. Hello from Las Vegas :)
Hello Ara - makes me so happy to hear you are finding the content helpful! I think it's great that you are paying attention to your unique needs and combining training plans to do what works best for your abilities and goals. I do agree that getting to 20 can be a big confidence builder and we know how important staying positive mentally can be for success in the marathon, too. What marathon are you training for?
I’m running the LA marathon and am so nervous. My longest run yet was 15.6 miles and it was so hard. I’m following the Nike Run Club and it’s telling me I have to run 18.6 miles this week. I’m a total beginner and want to make sure I don’t hurt myself. I’m running to lose weight and am not a traditional runner.
Hi there! If your longest run was 15.6, I personally wouldn't up it quite to 18.6, especially since you struggled. But I don't know what the rest of the plan looks like. What I would recommend no matter what is to slow down on the front end of your long run so it will go better this time! Make sure to fuel well, too, and that should help. You got this!
Great vid, Jane! You nailed it with us runners liking nice round numbers! I think that’s the only reason 20 is such a popular choice for the LR. I don’t often get up to 20 anymore in my marathon build up. I’ve run anywhere between 16 and 24 as my longest runs and haven’t noticed a difference on race day. As you said, marathon success is a culmination of all our training. And obviously with my low long run numbers, I’m a much bigger fan of the Daniels plan than the McMillan plan. 😁
That's interesting that you haven't noticed a difference, Matt. I'll be honest...doing up to 20-21 is so ingrained for me now that I just stick to that being nervous to make a change. However, I think you run higher mileage than I do during the rest of the week which obviously matters like you said. My long runs end up being about 30-35% of my weekly mileage.
Great video!! This is great advice especially if you are hard on yourself for not getting 20 mile long runs. I totally agree all of the other miles do matter. Thanks for sharing!!
For sure. Honestly, from the coaching side, doing this research was really good for me in order to have a better understanding of how a runner going at a slower pace may be putting themselves at risk by going over 20 miles where in the past I would've thought that everyone should do that much. I would think it would be so overwhelming for a new marathoner to go out and do a 5-hour long run, for example!
Depends on the intensity and intended adaptation you want to have. You can do 18 miles @ an easy effort or 15 miles @ 1/2 marathon or marathon effort. The adaptations will be different for each. The latter makes you withstand lactate longer at a given pace. I think you can do both. Long easy runs and faster long runs but drop the mileage down.
LOVE this rundown! I'm a run coach and my athletes always feel uneasy when they don't have the exact 20 miler on their plan and I think it's just a society mindset overall. We have been engrained with training plans online telling us you have to run that as your longest run before a marathon and that's really the only knowledge behind it. If it takes my runners more than 3.5-4 hours - then I don't have them run that amount of time before their marathon!
Hi Kelly! Yes, this! It's tough because the 20-miler can really help people mentally to see that they got in the 20s (even if just for a second haha)...but sometimes that mental aspect isn't worth the risk. I certainly take it on a case-by-case basis with each runner depending on age, running history, durability, etc. Appreciate your insight in how you approach this, too.
Sharing for anyone newer to this (like I am) who might be intimidated/nervous about their long runs (like I've been, because those higher #s can be scary when you've never pulled them off before): Just keep showing up and be kind to yourself. When I run on the local track as part of my Saturday long run, there are people who zoom past me, some even doing laps around me as I trot in the outer lane. I can see in MapMyRun that my pace is often slower each time I "level up" too (as I play around with various types of fuel, etc.), but I say to myself "Who cares? I don't. I'm out here grinding away at a goal that's a very personal one that nobody else is even aware of, so just keep going and don't stop until you nail down the # of miles you came out here for." It's all about learning about yourself, what you're made of and figuring out ways to be a better runner each time you lace up. So get your gear on and don't lose sight of WHY you're doing this. 🙂
Hi JP, for some reason this comment went to my "held for review" folder and I just found it. I absolutely LOVE what you said. Best to start super slow on the long runs, especially when it's a distance you have never run before. But the truth is that sometimes you aren't going to finish strong or faster than you started and that's ok! It takes time for the body to adapt. If you have to go slower to get the miles in, it's ok. You'll be so happy you made it to the end. THANK YOU for such an awesome comment and I hope lots of people read it.
thanks Jane, that's a great video, as usual. ((you kind of surprised me to say, that "the long run is not everything" )) LOL, glad I do a couple of shorter runs a week too, and they count for something - LOL , but I still love the rhythmic, slow, steady long run. can't wait to hear how Boston training is going for you, I have "high" expectations for your student listening to her coach and totally believing in herself !!!
Every single run counts for sure! Thank you for the nice words as always, Ken...filmed some on my last long run of the month today to include in the Boston Training video that will be out end of this week!
That's amazing, Edwin. For sure if your body can handle it and you have the time, this will indeed get you an excellent marathon time! And a good example how 20 miles isn't best for everyone.
3:44 Just came across this from first paragraph in the foreward of 'Hansons Marathon Method' and thought of this video: " What I found were cookie-cutter approaches reproduced from publication to publication, always including a long run that was usually 20 miles in American publications and 30 kilometers (18.6 miles) in foreign magazines. I came to find the reasoning behind this long run prescription was simple: These distances were round, even numbers."
Hey Tony! Pretty much!! Though I don't personally think Hanson's method, that tops out at 16 miles, is for everyone either...but really goes back to the message of the video anyway...training that's unique to the individual really does work best!
Love the advice here. The long run being 25-35% is a great indicator because I way overdid it on my 16 mile run and that was close to 40% of my mileage. Wish I took that into consideration before.
Glad it was helpful! I actually think depending on the person 40% can be OK. But you have to make sure you're recovering well and performing the other runs appropriately (and also not doing the long run too fast which is a mistake a lot of runners make.)
I ran my first half marathon just 6 weeks ago (2h13min finishing time), been training consistently for the last 5 weeks, and did my longest run today. It was a 2h 42min, 19 mile run. I felt pretty good and I slept like a whole hour once I did my chores haha For some context, I’m a southeast asian casual runner, humidity here and weather is not optimal for longer runs for most of the year, so I try my best to make time for runs I have a full marathon in 4 months’ time so hoping for the best ! Aiming for a 4h 30 min or sub 5 hour time
Whoa you did a half in 2:13 and 6 weeks later ran 19 miles in 2:42?! That's big progress! Just make sure you're not running long runs too fast - lots or all of those miles should be easy miles especially if you're training for your first marathon. Best of luck!
@@runningwithjanethanks! Currently following a structured and strict training, did a 3:24 22 miler during the long Chinese New Year weekend🎉 My weekly mileage is slowly maintaining around 52 miles with 70-75% of these at easy pace
Hi Brianna - great question...I almost always stop once during a long run to use the bathroom. However, I don't stop during the marathon. It's really more a comfort thing instead of an absolute necessity for me...so something I'm willing to forego when I race haha. I would just recommend sipping water often and early and not worry too much about if a bathroom stop is in order...if you do end up needing to go in the actual race just get it done as quickly as possible!
Hi Mary - welcome! I'm so glad you're here. If any of my videos ever spark questions, don't hesitate to ask! Thank you so much for the well wishes! #15 wow!! That is truly inspirational - all the best to her.
Great advise thanks very much for sharing running edingburgh in may im not a fast runner and was planning on trying to run the 20 miles but will cap at 4 hours and see how i do🙈
Hi Tracy!! Yes, would definitely not run more than 4 hours...and if you're feeling really uncomfortable as you approach 3:30, don't extend to 4 just to extend it. Go easy pace and listen to your body. When is your marathon?
100 percent you should be using gels during your long runs!! Gotta train that stomach for race day, too. One gel every 45 min. is a good place to start.
I somehow came across a rule of thumb of running double the race distance per week for about 3 weeks in order to be able to finish these distances "comfortably". Always felt that this gave me the confidence, endurance and strengths needed. The number of runs or length seemed to be not very important on that way. Have some friends handling it similiar and had good experiences for first times running 5k to half marathons. Currently I'm setting myself up for first marathon and will see if this still worls out fine^^ Anyone has some thoughts or can relate to their experience on that?
Interesting...I've literally never though about this or read that specific strategy, but if people can run 52-mile weeks for 3 weeks in peak and have safely gotten to that mileage meaning they have also run many 40+ weeks, they're going to be in a really good position to have a great marathon (provided pacing and fueling are on point there, too.)
This was a good break down! I've had success with traditional programs and recently 2 fast marathons with Hanson's method, but not fast enough for this #bigbonedflatfootedrunner to qualify for Boston. So now I'm going old school to train for CIM with Level 4 McMillan! Even if I take your advice and cap my 3:15 training plan to a long run of 3:30, That's still 23-28 mile long run! EEEK! That's a big jump from 16 mile uptempo long runs that rarely or barely broke 2:10. Of course, except for the 26.2 miles I ran last Sunday at Santa Rosa and 4 months ago at Napa. Interesting enough, my personalized McMillan's Level 4 peak week long run is 22-28 miles..... that's some serious personalization. #BQorBust
I think 21 is the most I've ever done. I can't imagine doing more than a marathon in training lol. I've seen mixed results with people using Hanson's. How was Santa Rosa?? One of my athletes ran that marathon!! Hope you snag that BQ at CIM!!
Really interesting. Last long run was 18 miles at easy pace (75% of max heart rate) and took 3 hrs 20 mins. Felt pretty good but started to fatigue. Was automatically going to go for 20 miles next long run, but based on your advice, might cap at 4hrs or possibly 4 and 1/2 hrs. Garmin tells me my predicted time will be 3.55 but it's a fairly hilly trail run and so I am not going by time, just wanting to maintain pace and have enough energy to complete strong. My question is, can / should we consider harder effort in the final mile/s? And does this apply to training AND race day, or do you recommend a different tactic for the final miles in training / racing? I've actually emailed you to see if I can book a 1:1 online, so very much looking forward to that!
Hi Clemency, it was so great to connect yesterday! I know we discussed this on our call, but for anyone else reading this, definitely ok in most cases to run a couple of faster last miles if you're feeling strong. Being able to push it a little bit is a great sign you've managed effort well and will help with being prepared for a negative split on race day.
@@runningwithjane My 1:1 session with you was a huge help. I managed the 20 miles on Sunday and did feel I had a little extra to give but the terrain was more challenging than my usual runs so I within my Zone 2. Only one more long long run to go before tapering. I'm so glad I've had your channel to guide me in the right direction.
first marathon i done my long run was up to 35 k but next year I done same marathon 35 minutes faster only running 28 k as long run m; more experience and less exhausted come race day
The longest long run in marathon training should not exceed 2 hours 30 minutes, specially for recreational runners which easy pace rounds 8 , 8:30, 9 or more mins per mile. It’s an absolute stupidity that a recreational runner within such easy pace range makes a 20 miler, because they would end making that long run in 3-4 hours and that’s extremely stupid as that runner would be exposing herself/himself and possibly getting injured or ill. Plain and simple.
2.5 hours is fine yet at 3 hours it becomes "extremely stupid"? C'mon. Proper training is not at all that cut and dry. There are a lot of other factors to consider when determining what's best for one particular person.
Agree. Its very stupid to run for 4h for a long run. Cap should be at most 3h, and even that would destroy your body so much that you cannot recover and do the hard session in the next 3 days
my longest run on my plan is 16 miles however my weekly mileage is 60 and 62.5 miles. my projected time is sub 3 but even if a did an easy 8 m/m pace for 3 hours it would be 22.5 miles. so since my weekly mileage is high 16 shouldn't 16 be enough?
Perhaps you're doing Hanson's plan or similar. It can work for some people, and perhaps that will work great for you! For the athletes I coach at your pace/level, we would typically do a few 20-21-mile runs with pace.
After completing 20 miles during my first marathon training, it was more harmful than helpful. The perfect length for me is a 10 mile long run, which takes 2 hours. Anything over 2 hours is more harmful than productive.
Not on the basic beginner program. Most important thing is to build aerobic endurance first. Most beginners run too fast and struggle to even get the mileage in. Once you can do that, you can layer in tempo runs, etc.
@@runningwithjane I am 37, male, just run a 20:04 5K yesterday. I run a half marathon in May with slight fever for 1:34:17. I am currently training for a October Marathon, my first. I run 60-80Km per week depends on how much basketball/swimming/cycling I do that week. I am aiming for 3:15, but realistically 3:20 finish. What should be my longest run be in my case? What is the pace I should be running? I usually alternate between LSD and speedy second half for my long runs. So far my longest run is 30Km/19 miles, that's what I did during my half marathon training last year.
Sorry, completely noob and likely question - why don't people just train to run the distance that they would like to run? I'm thinking what is the point of entering the marathon not knowing if I can actually make the distance?
Hi Alex - really common question - 26 miles is incredibly hard to recover from, even if you run it easy. For many people this would take 5-6 hours or more. But for shorter distances, it's actually really good to run up to the distance or longer.
Insanity to run long run for 4 hours. If you cant go sub 4:00 on marathon that means you are a beginner so you are probably doing very low mileage. To run 4 hours for a long run for a begginer is recipe for disaster (injury)
There are many runners who are not beginners who don't run a sub-4 marathon. Though I don't typically have a runner go over 3-3:15 hours in a long run, each runner is unique. Trail runners do plenty of long runs over 4 hours, so to say it's insanity is closed-minded thinking. Many factors to consider.
@@runningwithjaneok, sub 4 might be a little bit aggresive time. But still, i stand that 4 hours is too much for a long run. I did not say that you must run 2:30h maximum but probably anything over 3h is starting to have diminishing returns. There is a reason why pros and semi elitr dont run more than 40k long runs. They cap it around 2:30-2:45 max. And even for them 40k is somethin around 25% of mileage. Now imagine a beginner with 30-40miles per week to run 2:45h long run. Their body is not made for that amount of stress because 20 miles is 50% of their current mileage. Its better to run more often in a week and gradually make the long run longer, than to cram everthing in one run
As a slower paced runner. A 2.5 hour long run is only 13 miles for me. 😮
Hi Lacey! This is exactly why I struggle with Jack Daniels' principle of capping long runs at 2.5 hours. A lot of his advice aligns well with young athletes running sub-3 hour marathons and that's just not where most of the population is at! I find most people can handle 3.5 hours and recover appropriately as long as they are running their easy pace.
I just did a long run pushing a stroller with my 35 lbs boy. I did 13.5 miles in 3 hours. Slow for sure!
It's always bothered me how videos were suggesting a 20 mile long run in one segment and later saying the long run should be no more than 25% weekly mileage, and I'm thinking "I've got no intention of running 80 mile weeks to make that possible". But with a bit of flexibility and allowing a 20 mile run in a 50 mile week one the gradual build up gets you there, this sounds far more pragmatic. Subscribed
Hi Dave - yeah, 25% is going to be very tough for most. I've learned so much from Jack Daniels and many consider his work to be the running bible, but his coaching style leans much more toward helping the very young and/or very fast.
I run long on Saturday and take Sunday off. My goal is to still feel tired from the long run on Monday but not on Tuesday. If I have accomplished that, then I'm good. Wish me luck today: 20 miles on the treadmill!
I like that strategy! Good luck on the tread 20, Joel...if there is any great mental prep for the marathon it's that!!
I ran my first marathon yesterday (4:02:08) with my longest run at 17 miles. I cramped a bit towards the end but looking around me, everyone was hurting. Consistency > longest long run.
Definitely. Consistency over time and building mileage gradually week after week, month after month and year after year is what will allow you to keep reaching goals! The long run is important, but it's only one factor. And congrats on completing your first marathon - that's a BIG deal!
Nice first marathon, congratulations! Yeah, my last two marathons had long runs capped at 16 miles and they were only 10 minutes slower than my PR 12 years ago. You obviously worked the rest of the plan and it paid off! Nice work!
Superb video, esp for my first marathon attempt. Did one 20 mi run, took me 4 hours.
-40% of weekly can be LR
-LR is not the only imp run
-max LR ~80-85% finish time, so will run 4 hrs and hopefully 20-21 miles-
The way you explain is so soothing to hear. Thanks
So glad you talked about this Jane, what I got is that every person is different. I am training for my first marathon in over 20 years and I was following a plan that has 18 miles as the longest run and for me just didn't feel right, mentally is a big factor to complete the 20, so I decided to combine a couple of training plans that fit my needs and of course I am including the 20 miler. I just found your channel a few weeks ago and I am thrilled! Love the content. Hello from Las Vegas :)
Hello Ara - makes me so happy to hear you are finding the content helpful! I think it's great that you are paying attention to your unique needs and combining training plans to do what works best for your abilities and goals. I do agree that getting to 20 can be a big confidence builder and we know how important staying positive mentally can be for success in the marathon, too. What marathon are you training for?
@@runningwithjane I'll be running Mountains 2 Beach Marathon, So Cal, starts in Ojai and ends in Ventura. Can't wait, its on May 29.
@@arasfavorites3954 I have a friend running that, too! Should be a great one.
This is great! I am training for my first marathon this May!! SO excited.
That is fantastic, Margi. Which one are you running??
I’m running the LA marathon and am so nervous. My longest run yet was 15.6 miles and it was so hard. I’m following the Nike Run Club and it’s telling me I have to run 18.6 miles this week. I’m a total beginner and want to make sure I don’t hurt myself. I’m running to lose weight and am not a traditional runner.
Hi there! If your longest run was 15.6, I personally wouldn't up it quite to 18.6, especially since you struggled. But I don't know what the rest of the plan looks like. What I would recommend no matter what is to slow down on the front end of your long run so it will go better this time! Make sure to fuel well, too, and that should help. You got this!
Very useful for slow runners like me. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! You're not slow...there are just different degrees of fast!😉
From one "slow" runner to another, it all counts. Keep going!
Thanks for a great video, your content is really helpful as I’m training for my first marathon! Greetings from Sweden!
Hello Jabbe - makes me so happy to hear you are finding the content helpful. Love "meeting" other runners from around the globe...thanks for watching!
Great vid, Jane! You nailed it with us runners liking nice round numbers! I think that’s the only reason 20 is such a popular choice for the LR. I don’t often get up to 20 anymore in my marathon build up. I’ve run anywhere between 16 and 24 as my longest runs and haven’t noticed a difference on race day. As you said, marathon success is a culmination of all our training.
And obviously with my low long run numbers, I’m a much bigger fan of the Daniels plan than the McMillan plan. 😁
That's interesting that you haven't noticed a difference, Matt. I'll be honest...doing up to 20-21 is so ingrained for me now that I just stick to that being nervous to make a change. However, I think you run higher mileage than I do during the rest of the week which obviously matters like you said. My long runs end up being about 30-35% of my weekly mileage.
Great video!! This is great advice especially if you are hard on yourself for not getting 20 mile long runs. I totally agree all of the other miles do matter. Thanks for sharing!!
For sure. Honestly, from the coaching side, doing this research was really good for me in order to have a better understanding of how a runner going at a slower pace may be putting themselves at risk by going over 20 miles where in the past I would've thought that everyone should do that much. I would think it would be so overwhelming for a new marathoner to go out and do a 5-hour long run, for example!
@@runningwithjane I totally agree.
Depends on the intensity and intended adaptation you want to have. You can do 18 miles @ an easy effort or 15 miles @ 1/2 marathon or marathon effort. The adaptations will be different for each. The latter makes you withstand lactate longer at a given pace. I think you can do both. Long easy runs and faster long runs but drop the mileage down.
More experienced athletes will definitely have both types programmed to yes, focus on different stimuli. Beginners need to focus on the volume first.
LOVE this rundown! I'm a run coach and my athletes always feel uneasy when they don't have the exact 20 miler on their plan and I think it's just a society mindset overall. We have been engrained with training plans online telling us you have to run that as your longest run before a marathon and that's really the only knowledge behind it. If it takes my runners more than 3.5-4 hours - then I don't have them run that amount of time before their marathon!
Hi Kelly! Yes, this! It's tough because the 20-miler can really help people mentally to see that they got in the 20s (even if just for a second haha)...but sometimes that mental aspect isn't worth the risk. I certainly take it on a case-by-case basis with each runner depending on age, running history, durability, etc. Appreciate your insight in how you approach this, too.
I'd love to be running any of those distances 😄🏃♂️ Great breakdown for all the marathon runners out there, Jane.
Oh Mark - I know! Injuries are so frustrating...definitely important to be grateful for every mile that our bodies allow us.
Sharing for anyone newer to this (like I am) who might be intimidated/nervous about their long runs (like I've been, because those higher #s can be scary when you've never pulled them off before): Just keep showing up and be kind to yourself. When I run on the local track as part of my Saturday long run, there are people who zoom past me, some even doing laps around me as I trot in the outer lane. I can see in MapMyRun that my pace is often slower each time I "level up" too (as I play around with various types of fuel, etc.), but I say to myself "Who cares? I don't. I'm out here grinding away at a goal that's a very personal one that nobody else is even aware of, so just keep going and don't stop until you nail down the # of miles you came out here for." It's all about learning about yourself, what you're made of and figuring out ways to be a better runner each time you lace up. So get your gear on and don't lose sight of WHY you're doing this. 🙂
Hi JP, for some reason this comment went to my "held for review" folder and I just found it. I absolutely LOVE what you said. Best to start super slow on the long runs, especially when it's a distance you have never run before. But the truth is that sometimes you aren't going to finish strong or faster than you started and that's ok! It takes time for the body to adapt. If you have to go slower to get the miles in, it's ok. You'll be so happy you made it to the end. THANK YOU for such an awesome comment and I hope lots of people read it.
thanks Jane, that's a great video, as usual. ((you kind of surprised me to say, that "the long run is not everything" )) LOL, glad I do a couple of shorter runs a week too, and they count for something - LOL , but I still love the rhythmic, slow, steady long run. can't wait to hear how Boston training is going for you, I have "high" expectations for your student listening to her coach and totally believing in herself !!!
Every single run counts for sure! Thank you for the nice words as always, Ken...filmed some on my last long run of the month today to include in the Boston Training video that will be out end of this week!
For this marathon block I've hit full marathon in training 3 times. But I hit peak weekly of 120 miles, with most around 90 miles.
That's amazing, Edwin. For sure if your body can handle it and you have the time, this will indeed get you an excellent marathon time! And a good example how 20 miles isn't best for everyone.
Great advice and perspective on the long run!!!
Thanks, Jeff - glad it was helpful!
Hey! That clip of the runner at 1:48 is in Cape Town 🙂
Oh awesome! I get clips from Canva a lot of the time.
Thank you very much for this video . I found all of my answers on your video .
That's great to hear!!
3:44 Just came across this from first paragraph in the foreward of 'Hansons Marathon Method' and thought of this video: " What I found were cookie-cutter approaches reproduced from publication to publication, always including a long run that was usually 20 miles in American publications and 30 kilometers (18.6 miles) in foreign magazines. I came to find the reasoning behind this long run prescription was simple: These distances were round, even numbers."
Hey Tony! Pretty much!! Though I don't personally think Hanson's method, that tops out at 16 miles, is for everyone either...but really goes back to the message of the video anyway...training that's unique to the individual really does work best!
Love the advice here. The long run being 25-35% is a great indicator because I way overdid it on my 16 mile run and that was close to 40% of my mileage. Wish I took that into consideration before.
Glad it was helpful! I actually think depending on the person 40% can be OK. But you have to make sure you're recovering well and performing the other runs appropriately (and also not doing the long run too fast which is a mistake a lot of runners make.)
Haha I made that mistake. Your videos are awesome! Keep up the amazing work!
I ran my first half marathon just 6 weeks ago (2h13min finishing time), been training consistently for the last 5 weeks, and did my longest run today. It was a 2h 42min, 19 mile run. I felt pretty good and I slept like a whole hour once I did my chores haha
For some context, I’m a southeast asian casual runner, humidity here and weather is not optimal for longer runs for most of the year, so I try my best to make time for runs
I have a full marathon in 4 months’ time so hoping for the best ! Aiming for a 4h 30 min or sub 5 hour time
Whoa you did a half in 2:13 and 6 weeks later ran 19 miles in 2:42?! That's big progress! Just make sure you're not running long runs too fast - lots or all of those miles should be easy miles especially if you're training for your first marathon. Best of luck!
@@runningwithjanethanks! Currently following a structured and strict training, did a 3:24 22 miler during the long Chinese New Year weekend🎉
My weekly mileage is slowly maintaining around 52 miles with 70-75% of these at easy pace
What are you thoughts on bathroom stops during a marathon? How do you hydrate without losing time at bathroom breaks.
Hi Brianna - great question...I almost always stop once during a long run to use the bathroom. However, I don't stop during the marathon. It's really more a comfort thing instead of an absolute necessity for me...so something I'm willing to forego when I race haha. I would just recommend sipping water often and early and not worry too much about if a bathroom stop is in order...if you do end up needing to go in the actual race just get it done as quickly as possible!
I love your channel. I'm a new subscriber here. Good luck in Boston!! My coach is running her 15th Boston this year!!
Hi Mary - welcome! I'm so glad you're here. If any of my videos ever spark questions, don't hesitate to ask!
Thank you so much for the well wishes! #15 wow!! That is truly inspirational - all the best to her.
Great advice! Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Great advise thanks very much for sharing running edingburgh in may im not a fast runner and was planning on trying to run the 20 miles but will cap at 4 hours and see how i do🙈
Hi Tracy!! Yes, would definitely not run more than 4 hours...and if you're feeling really uncomfortable as you approach 3:30, don't extend to 4 just to extend it. Go easy pace and listen to your body. When is your marathon?
Brilliant coach
Thanks for the feedback, Aubrey!
Thanks that was super helpful.
You're so welcome, Dan!
Great points, excellent video. I learned a lot. Is it ok to use gels during the long runs or is that cheating during training?
100 percent you should be using gels during your long runs!! Gotta train that stomach for race day, too. One gel every 45 min. is a good place to start.
@@runningwithjane Ok, great. Thanks!
Go Jane you've got this
I somehow came across a rule of thumb of running double the race distance per week for about 3 weeks in order to be able to finish these distances "comfortably".
Always felt that this gave me the confidence, endurance and strengths needed.
The number of runs or length seemed to be not very important on that way.
Have some friends handling it similiar and had good experiences for first times running 5k to half marathons.
Currently I'm setting myself up for first marathon and will see if this still worls out fine^^
Anyone has some thoughts or can relate to their experience on that?
Interesting...I've literally never though about this or read that specific strategy, but if people can run 52-mile weeks for 3 weeks in peak and have safely gotten to that mileage meaning they have also run many 40+ weeks, they're going to be in a really good position to have a great marathon (provided pacing and fueling are on point there, too.)
This was a good break down! I've had success with traditional programs and recently 2 fast marathons with Hanson's method, but not fast enough for this #bigbonedflatfootedrunner to qualify for Boston. So now I'm going old school to train for CIM with Level 4 McMillan! Even if I take your advice and cap my 3:15 training plan to a long run of 3:30, That's still 23-28 mile long run! EEEK! That's a big jump from 16 mile uptempo long runs that rarely or barely broke 2:10. Of course, except for the 26.2 miles I ran last Sunday at Santa Rosa and 4 months ago at Napa.
Interesting enough, my personalized McMillan's Level 4 peak week long run is 22-28 miles..... that's some serious personalization. #BQorBust
I think 21 is the most I've ever done. I can't imagine doing more than a marathon in training lol. I've seen mixed results with people using Hanson's. How was Santa Rosa?? One of my athletes ran that marathon!! Hope you snag that BQ at CIM!!
Really interesting. Last long run was 18 miles at easy pace (75% of max heart rate) and took 3 hrs 20 mins. Felt pretty good but started to fatigue. Was automatically going to go for 20 miles next long run, but based on your advice, might cap at 4hrs or possibly 4 and 1/2 hrs. Garmin tells me my predicted time will be 3.55 but it's a fairly hilly trail run and so I am not going by time, just wanting to maintain pace and have enough energy to complete strong. My question is, can / should we consider harder effort in the final mile/s? And does this apply to training AND race day, or do you recommend a different tactic for the final miles in training / racing? I've actually emailed you to see if I can book a 1:1 online, so very much looking forward to that!
Hi Clemency, it was so great to connect yesterday! I know we discussed this on our call, but for anyone else reading this, definitely ok in most cases to run a couple of faster last miles if you're feeling strong. Being able to push it a little bit is a great sign you've managed effort well and will help with being prepared for a negative split on race day.
@@runningwithjane My 1:1 session with you was a huge help. I managed the 20 miles on Sunday and did feel I had a little extra to give but the terrain was more challenging than my usual runs so I within my Zone 2. Only one more long long run to go before tapering. I'm so glad I've had your channel to guide me in the right direction.
Question: Is the RUN time inclusive or exclusive of rest time.
first marathon i done my long run was up to 35 k but next year I done same marathon 35 minutes faster only running 28 k as long run m; more experience and less exhausted come race day
So glad this method worked for you!
Thank You Jane!!! Great as alwyse!!!
You are so welcome! Thanks for your dedicated viewership, David!
Very Nice 🙂
Thanks!
The longest long run in marathon training should not exceed 2 hours 30 minutes, specially for recreational runners which easy pace rounds 8 , 8:30, 9 or more mins per mile. It’s an absolute stupidity that a recreational runner within such easy pace range makes a 20 miler, because they would end making that long run in 3-4 hours and that’s extremely stupid as that runner would be exposing herself/himself and possibly getting injured or ill. Plain and simple.
2.5 hours is fine yet at 3 hours it becomes "extremely stupid"? C'mon. Proper training is not at all that cut and dry. There are a lot of other factors to consider when determining what's best for one particular person.
Agree. Its very stupid to run for 4h for a long run. Cap should be at most 3h, and even that would destroy your body so much that you cannot recover and do the hard session in the next 3 days
my longest run on my plan is 16 miles however my weekly mileage is 60 and 62.5 miles. my projected time is sub 3 but even if a did an easy 8 m/m pace for 3 hours it would be 22.5 miles. so since my weekly mileage is high 16 shouldn't 16 be enough?
Perhaps you're doing Hanson's plan or similar. It can work for some people, and perhaps that will work great for you! For the athletes I coach at your pace/level, we would typically do a few 20-21-mile runs with pace.
After completing 20 miles during my first marathon training, it was more harmful than helpful. The perfect length for me is a 10 mile long run, which takes 2 hours. Anything over 2 hours is more harmful than productive.
10 miles was your longest long run in marathon training? What does your weekly volume look like?
My longest run was 13 miles. My weekly volume has been very low due to lower back pain. I hope I will be ok on race day.
22 I just ran 17 still got a few more weeks too go… teamLA
Hope you have a great last month and marathon race!
No tempo run in your program?
Not on the basic beginner program. Most important thing is to build aerobic endurance first. Most beginners run too fast and struggle to even get the mileage in. Once you can do that, you can layer in tempo runs, etc.
50%? You must be joking. Jack daniels cap the long run at 25% or 150mins, whatever is less.
I talk about Daniels at 8:12. There isn't one right way for every individual which is the point of the video.
@@runningwithjane I am 37, male, just run a 20:04 5K yesterday. I run a half marathon in May with slight fever for 1:34:17. I am currently training for a October Marathon, my first. I run 60-80Km per week depends on how much basketball/swimming/cycling I do that week.
I am aiming for 3:15, but realistically 3:20 finish. What should be my longest run be in my case? What is the pace I should be running? I usually alternate between LSD and speedy second half for my long runs. So far my longest run is 30Km/19 miles, that's what I did during my half marathon training last year.
Sorry, completely noob and likely question - why don't people just train to run the distance that they would like to run? I'm thinking what is the point of entering the marathon not knowing if I can actually make the distance?
Hi Alex - really common question - 26 miles is incredibly hard to recover from, even if you run it easy. For many people this would take 5-6 hours or more. But for shorter distances, it's actually really good to run up to the distance or longer.
the answer is.......20 miles
And sometimes less and sometimes more!
Insanity to run long run for 4 hours. If you cant go sub 4:00 on marathon that means you are a beginner so you are probably doing very low mileage. To run 4 hours for a long run for a begginer is recipe for disaster (injury)
There are many runners who are not beginners who don't run a sub-4 marathon. Though I don't typically have a runner go over 3-3:15 hours in a long run, each runner is unique. Trail runners do plenty of long runs over 4 hours, so to say it's insanity is closed-minded thinking. Many factors to consider.
@@runningwithjaneok, sub 4 might be a little bit aggresive time. But still, i stand that 4 hours is too much for a long run.
I did not say that you must run 2:30h maximum but probably anything over 3h is starting to have diminishing returns.
There is a reason why pros and semi elitr dont run more than 40k long runs. They cap it around 2:30-2:45 max. And even for them 40k is somethin around 25% of mileage. Now imagine a beginner with 30-40miles per week to run 2:45h long run. Their body is not made for that amount of stress because 20 miles is 50% of their current mileage. Its better to run more often in a week and gradually make the long run longer, than to cram everthing in one run