What Church Should I Join: 1689 Baptist or 1647 Presbyterian?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Resources Mentioned in this Video:
Westminster Confession (hardback): amzn.to/3gOeMc5
Westminster Confession (softback): amzn.to/3vxyTPQ
Seeking a Better Country: amzn.to/3eFlOgD
WLC Commentary (Vos): amzn.to/2QJIqor
WCF Commentary (Hodge): amzn.to/3nzD0Ip
Hold Fast the Faith (Everhard): amzn.to/3vvisnu
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I'm not a Christian, but I learn a bunch watching this channel, thanks for the great content
Cool! Hows come you watch? Topics of interest?
Yes I am curious too.
@@MatthewEverhard I’m not the original commenter, but I think I can chip in from a similar perspective: It it now painfully and abundantly clear that our media and educational institutions are ministries of propaganda which demonise our fellow citizens in order to divide us and prevent us from making common cause against the ruling class. One of the big hoaxes/bogeymen being perpetuated is that there is a substantial threat of “Christian Nationalism” among conservative Evangelicals, when, with any unbiased direct observation of them as they speak about each other in their own words, it becomes clear that this is a hoax and a smear, and that genuine Christian nationalists are a lunatic fringe that don’t even make up 1% of the population. It’s also good to understand how people understand themselves in their own terms.
Jesus saves
New Covenant Whole Gospel:
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14.
Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (Acts 2:36)
Watch the TH-cam video “The New Covenant” by Bob George.
People from all strands of Christianity would benefit from watching this. Thanks for your wisdom Pastor Matt!
I’ve recently converted from Catholicism to Presbyterianism and your channel played a major role on my life. I’m from Brazil and we’re a very catholic country where most people associate Protestantism in general with Pentecostalism or Neopentecostalism; I myself had a lot of prejudice against Protestants, and had never seen or met a traditional reformed church, luckily I’ve met the Brazilian Presbyterian Church which is a very conservative and god fearing institution that totally changed my view of Christianity, I’ve been studying a lot about theological doctrines, and have grown to accept Calvinism as the more correct approach to the scripture. I’m very thankful to your help, keep up the good work pastor.
Greertings João. Welcome to the Reformed Faith 👍🏻
Great response to his question. Watching this video reminded me of the friendly jokes R.C. Sproul and Steven Lawson would take at each other at Ligonier conferences.
I have been attending a Greek Orthodox Church. I have been in the faith for 2 years and I found this video helpful. Thanks for your work.
Also grew up IFB, now Reformed Baptist. For me, it was Calvinism first then covenant theology and then amillennialism. I actually go to a non-reformed, dispensational Baptist Church. My family really enjoys our church and we have great fellowship, so I’m not leaving unless they make me lol. We can agree to disagree. I also agree with him that we shouldn’t try to “work underground” and undercut the pastors teaching. I have had to learn how to keep quite, it’s been humbling.
I don't think a dispensationalist church is healthy, for you or your family's relationship with God.
@@ihiohoh2708 agree. We moved to a PCA church and have been there since June 2022.
@@classicchristianliterature Amazing. God bless you and your family!
This is so helpful to many who are on this journey-I mean really full of godly wisdom. Thank you.
Very solid advice, brother! My husband and I, as reformed Baptists, had this conversation a few years back when searching for a church that more closely aligned with our convictions after continued study of the Word led us to a reformed view. We had one church locally that was reformed, and it was a PCA church. We ultimately decided that, based on our own understanding of the Scripture from a reformed baptist viewpoint, it would not be wise for us to join fellowship at the PCA church for the reasons that you mentioned. But, in His graciousness and kindness, the Lord allowed us to become part of establishing a local reformed baptist church plant in our community several months ago, and we officially opened our doors on January 31st of this year! We have been so incredibly blessed by the sweet fellowship with like-minded believers in our community, and pray the Lord would help us to live and serve Him faithfully in our homes and in our communities. All that being said, we absolutely consider our theological differences with our reformed PCA brethren to not be such that we cannot, in good conscience, consider them brothers and sisters in the faith, and are grateful for the fellowship we share with faithful brothers and sisters from the PCA church we had considered visiting!
I feel the sameway...in reverse as a member of an OPC church. I could never be a Baptist, but have mad love for my brothers and sisters in the Reformed Baptist fellowship. God bless.
I go to a PCA church in Jackson Tennessee. I also started off dispensational, which I think most of us in America, once I learned that there was more than one view on eschatology, I soon realized dispensationalism isn’t even 200 years old 😂 in less than a year I went on to Amillenialism after watching Kim Riddleberger but it wasn’t till I came across Kenneth Gentry Doug Wilson Gary Demar Jeff Durbin and now James white. To me , revelation makes so much sense now. I’m got over the cage stage.
Original dispensationalism is actually a heresy. Most dispensationalists use modified form so still in error, but not a heresy. After WWI and WWII, amil and postmill died due to horrors of these two wars and dispens and premil took dominance. That's why American Christianity is so ineffective currently... just really sad.
@@thomasc9036 I didn’t call it heresy, but I do believe it is wrong
Hey, grace or covenant? I live an hour south of Jackson so I go to Trinity in Corinth MS
@@nickspitzley8539 I go to grace Presbyterian church in Jackson
Good counsel!
Thanks pastor Matt!
Thank you for this!
Greeting in name of our Lord Jesus Christ, I have been watch several of your vlogs. I appreciated your work for our God. Yes, I agreed. I went through several different church since 1993 however that is how God work in my spiritual life to iron something out of my spiritual life. I am thankful for His gracious. From SBC (local church, IFB (Deaf Bible college) to Reformed Presbyterian. Now, I am an elder for Deaf Reformed Church (my pastor is also deaf). I know some do drive one and half to church. Good to know about your church and you. Hopefully will love to meet you someday (FYI, you are not far from where I live. about 3 hrs drive). God bless you, brother! In Christ alone, James Burks
I thoroughly enjoy all your videos, it is obvious you put a lot of deep thought into every topic ranging from theology to the daily issues or choice Christians face daily. Keep up the great work from a fellow Presbyterian and brother in Christ Jesus our Lord ✝️
Good and helpful video.
Just listened to your video. I have a very similar story to "Daniel". and am also deciding between the Prespyterian (PCA and ARP) and the Reformed Baptist faith. I found the video very helpful.
I was just googling this the other day as I have been interested in finding a reformed Baptist church.
Another comment from Don in Charlotte, NC. My last name is Troutman (original spelling TRAUTMAN)-I am also mostly of German descent. My dad was born in Pittsburg, where I think there was a large German population. I was born in a small town about 50 mi. N of Charlotte. I was raised a Lutheran church. Now I’m Baptist. A little history there. I think if we lived in the Pittsburg area I would be a member of your fellowship. I’ll soon be reading your book ‘Souls’. I think Our Lord has led me to your ministry so as to get into the ESV. And I’ll be looking. for your messages on TH-cam. God Bless you, your church, and your ministry. In Christ, Don🙏🙏🙏
Found you this morning while waiting to stream the service from my church in Fort Myers. I was baptized in the Methodist church and attended church off and on most of my adult life. I now live in Florida and attend the First Presbyterian Church. I don't miss a Sunday between attending and streaming. I would love to attend your church in Pittsburg some time.
Two other resources I'd recommend on the WCF specifically are G.I. Williamson's study (entitled simply _The Westminster Confession of Faith_), and J.V. Fesko's _The Theology of the Westminster Standards._ The latter is interesting in that it sets out the historical and theological context--in many of the WCF's affirmations are implicit denials (particularly of Roman Catholic teaching), and Fesko brings out many of those.
1689 is the 2nd LBC, the 1st was 1644, predating Westminster. I am a Reformed Baptist and praise God for and enjoy fellowship with my reformed brothers in the greater family of the reformed faith. I have, however, noticed when Presbyterians refer to the 2LBC it seems to focus on it coming after Westminster and being a “photo copy”, as you said. Westminster is beautiful and I greatly appreciate and respect it and simply ask that the Baptist work be respected and appreciated too rather than dismissed as plagiarism of Westminster. Love you, Brother, and appreciate you and your teaching. I enjoy listening and growing in my faith with you! Godspeed!
Excellent wisdom. There should be a class taught at the Sunday School level or for sure at the early Bible school level to cover this. I suspect many are going through this or will be at some time in their growth.
Hello Bro. Matt. I really enjoy your videos. I was wondering if you did one on theonomy or will possibly do one in the future. I'm halting between two opinions (1 Kings 18:21) currently, but am leaning toward it. Thank you.
Having been a Baptist (of the Arminio-Dispy type) and now being CREC you can guess how I lean.
If you are open to the possibility that the non-baptistic ideas may have merit I would suggest looking at F. Scheafer's defense of infant baptism and video teaching from places like Ligonier.
One of my concerns with PCA is that they are in the midst of a very serious struggle for the heart of the denomination with regard to "woke" issues. Of course like any denomination local congregations vary quite a bit.
The genetic test results can update based on more people being tested. Also, some companies’ test results are guided more toward certain areas. Mine are constantly updated.
This is such a wise practical approach. We are Presbyterian by conviction but we live where we live & have to submit to another denomination church as humbly as we possibly can. For us ‘it’ has to be the 5 solas, everything else is like our marriage, submit to one another patiently but feel free to share one’s views if the subject turns up without condemning others. After all, even John Owen frequently changed his views as he grew old.
James and Durban, good stuff!
Brother Everhard, I too left the dispy theology and a southern baptist chucrch who were more of an Arminian theology. Wasn’t much preaching from the Bible. Anyways, I wanted to join that church last year but they wouldn’t baptize me because of the pandemic so my family and I stopped going. I have a reformed baptist and a PCA church not far from me. My question is regarding the baptism of sprinkling vs immersion. I’ve always heard and was taught it was immersion only. I’m very confused, because even Calvin and the reformers stated it was to be done by immersion. Can you help me out with this? I’d love to go to either church.
Pastor Matthew thank you for this video and the book recommendations. One thing that might need some clarification is that we "1689" Reformed Baptists are covenantal in our theology; including Covenant of Works, Covenant of Redemption, and Covenant of Grace. The biggest difference,IMHO, is that we see the New Covenant as the instantiation of the Covenant of Grace (Jer. 31:33-34) [we would argue that New Covenant members and the "Elect" are identical], rather than seeing the Covenant of Grace in two administrations (Old and New) [with New Covenant membership containing unregenerate and regenerate professed believers]. I believe Presbyterians would say we have an "over-realized eschatology" regarding those verses... God bless you and your ministry!
I’m in the same boat as this guy “Daniel” who asked the question. I’ve been attending an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church for about 1 1/2 years and started to attend the church because I couldn’t find a Reformed Baptist Church anywhere near me. At the IFB church, the main pastor’s son (who is a missionary pastor) preached 1 service and took a slight shot at Reformed teaching and I was disappointed because I hold Reformed doctrine for the most part. The only churches of Reformed theology that are reasonably close (35-45 minutes away) are 2 PCA churches. I think I might settle on 1 of the 2 PCA churches since I’m a Reformed Baptist.
I was thinking of this topic myself. Continental Reformed, Confessional Presbyterian or Reformed Baptist. Kinda agnostic on the issue of baptism, though I lean more towards Paedo
Id be curious on your viewpoints of John Kostik and his videos on Revelation?
Pastor Matt, the language concerning the Covenants is also different in the LBCF when compared to the WCF. I would recommend the book "Covenant Theology: from Adam to Christ" for a thorough explanation of the distinct view of covenant theology the Baptists held in the 17th century. It contains a treatise on the Covenants by Nehemiah Coxe, one of the framers of the LBCF, plus it also has Owen's Commentary on Hebrews chapter 8.
I did 23andMe and Ancestry DNA and found out I was less Irish than I thought. Turns out I’m 54% Scottish and 30% English the rest was Welsh and Irish . I started doing my Family Tree and found out. I had several ancestors that were baptized under the church of Scotland are part of the Presbyterian Church United States. I also had ancestors who are part of the Presbyterian Church of the confederate states of America predominantly most of my ancestors settled in Virginia and North Carolina, so now I am looking into the Presbyterian PCA and absolutely love your channel. I was born and raised in the Missouri Ozarks in a Bible believing southern Baptist Church
“Daniel” sounds like a guy I could get along with. I too became reformed in the COVID year. Though I believed I was a Calvinist prior but just didn’t know it.
I live in Central PA and very interested in the Presbyterian church. Do you have any suggestions in the Lycoming County area. Any info is greatly appreciated . God-bless
Since 2009 or so I’ve been Amil thanks to my Professor
Join a 1788 WCF Church (OPC and PCA).
I'm 1% irish and i have family living there, my great grandfather was brought here as a baby in 1918
Another great video Pastor Matt! I would ask that you refrain from describing other believers as "gnashing of teeth" if disagreeing with infant baptism practices. We know what that phrase is typically used for, so to use it against other Christians is poor judgement. Thank you!
I used to get up and leave when the pastor’s wife preached while I was Charismatic like I’m not calling her Pastor Kerry and listening to her give a sermon when there are 5 other male pastors. I think I would feel like that with infant baptism.
I was saved years ago at an Independent Baptist Church and practiced that tradition for years.
God's opened my eyes to issues with dispensationalism and pre-mil (the way they teach it). There are also other issues in thr IFB I won't get into here.
I have been doing the "mostly on my own thing" for awhile. I know it's better for me to fellowship in a local assembly.
I recently visited a small ARP Church reasonably close to my house. They are in a house and have spilt several times so I am not settled on it.
I've looked at a few PCA churches but am nervous about the liberal flavor of the PCAs recent magazine publication, it reeks of CRT. Is that something I have to worry about infecting local churches? I live really remote so it's hard to find something close to my house. :(
I'd argue the IFB is bordering on cult-like.
Either one. Both are rare.
My great-grandfather was an Eberhardt.
interesting. care to comment on dutch reformed church vs english reformed church?
That's interesting, my wife did the same for me. I found out I'm 74% Scottish. Hence my interest in studying John Knox.
Bro.which church is close to the great comission?scripturally, historically, logically.just for the close look at mat.28:18-20.& other text.heb.13:1
I'm a Baptist from Italy. I've many good Presbyterian friends whom I agree with, I study theology on books by Reformed theologians. Honestly for me there's no significant difference between Baptists and Presbyterians. For example, I would be more comfortable in a conservative Presbyterian church than a liberal Baptist congregation.
I agree conservative reformed Presbyterian is closer to reformed Baptist than a liberal so called Baptist church. However the significant difference between Baptist and Presbyterian is whether or not unrepentant children and others in the "household" should be baptized along with believers and whether there are unbelievers in the New Covenant. Baptists would say no and Presbyterians would say yes. It is a significant issue for a parents trying to decide whether their children should be baptized prior to any profession of faith.
@@salvadaXgracia I was baptized as a baby and grew up as a Roman Catholic. Then converted to Jesus in a Baptist church. I think that whether or not a Christian is baptized as a baby, there's need of personal conversion. Solomon was the wisest king on the earth. However, his children weren't as wiser as their father even though they were sons of the same covenant. At the same time, we must admit that there's evidence of covenantal baptisms in the book of Acts.
@@trivetteldb9485 yes both Presbyterians and Baptists recognize the need for personal conversion i.e. repentance and belief of every individual! We are not different in that regard. But the question is what does baptism mean and when should it be performed? The biblical meaning of baptism is dying to sin with Christ, being buried, and being raised to new life in Christ. There is no biblical meaning for infant baptism so Presbyterians and other have to invent one. And looking more closely and carefully at the "covenant baptisms in Acts" reveals them to not be what is claimed by Presbyterians. At the very least we cannot make arguments for doctrine never clearly explained in Scripture from assumptions. God bless.
@@salvadaXgraciaOIKOS COVENANT is all over scripture... Peter reaffirmed it
@@salvadaXgraciabiblical meaning for infant baptism is giving them the covenant sign... are your children in the visible covenant ??
Do you ever do commentary on Methodist churches
Reformed, not woke is a good start. I'm thinking of visiting the baby sprinklers in my area.
Q: How do we awaken the woke from their slumber?
You don’t. lol. You just gently explain why they are stupid to them with big words. ;-)
Start off by not using the word “woke.”
@@gigahorse1475 Exactly. Just be a good witness for Christ and that's all you can do.
Your mention of the marginal tolerance is interesting, and I think mine has always, of necessity, been pretty high. I grew up in the Friends Church in Southern CA--for those not familiar, at least at the time, those churches were pretty much the same as any other broadly evangelical church, except that they didn't baptize with water or take the elements of communion. There aren't a lot of those around, and the Friends Church in other parts of the country can be very different, so I often found myself in Baptist churches. I'm still not convinced the Presbyterians have it right with respect to baptism--I don't think the "good and necessary consequence" really goes as far as they take it--but I've been quite happily a member of a semi-PCA church in Savannah for the last six years. I'm OK with not agreeing on this subject. I also have to recognize that three of our four ministers grew up Baptist, so they saw enough to change their minds.
Babdist is an innovative group starting around 1500
The question caught my attention, and yes, I’m a trouble maker for the Lord. I don’t want to be. This comment is likely going to be long, and will take you time, if you do, to read it. Keep in mind it will have taken me much longer to write. I have a life, and this is not really much fun, but for the sake of being faithful, truth matters.
If you are looking for a church? 1689 Baptist faith and the Westminster confession of faith?
There are just too many points to make, but it all comes down to language? Here are some key words, Church?
(I’m going to go with the NKJV) Matthew 16:18 Yashua said
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock, I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
When we use the term as Christians there is only one church any of us want to be a part of? Yet its clear there are hundreds/thousands of competing theologies. A child should be able to see these are not church?
Daniel Here is what I’m hearing as an answer to your query….can you go along to get along? Because that’s what passes for love and fellowship? Which is seemingly better than being a solo Christian? Call me crazy but I don’t see that in scripture?
The next much abused term is faith……
Calvin was brought up in this video; he’s an interesting guy. When I look at him, I see a man that believed in salvation by grace, certainly not works but couldn’t quite understand why if grace not everyone was saved? Not even all believers are saved? Just look at the ten virgins, half in half not? Or the Lord, Lord, crowd. These guys are so sure their part of the church they argue with Yashua? But it turns out they were just wrong? wow how come? How does all this work Calvin asks, and it’s a good question. But if you really want to go with the bible Calvin didn’t. Sure, much of it he affirmed and that’s good but he had to just look the other way on a lot of stuff and that’s a problem? At least for me it is, and its also just wrong. If he’d known God, he would have understood that. So good question lousy answer.
Faith, what is it? If you want to understand anything about God it’s in the bible. Or you could use a dictionary, you can look up faith in a secular book and get a secular definition. Then hope the wisdom of men is what it takes?
I used the scripture. I did that because it seemed to me that this was a sticky point.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace, you have been saved THROUGH FAITH, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Ya did Calvin miss that verse. If grace why not everyone? Well no faith no grace….seems obvious? Better be sure you have faith correct?
That’s a packed verse; so would you say the faith most talk about, is from self, or a gift?
I think Calvin should have dug here. Where in scripture do we hear about the kind of faith that is 100 percent a gift?
Romans 10:17
Here Paul says SO THEN FAITH COMES …. Wow its right there, Grace is for everyone that has faith….this faith. The same way Peater knew a thing, the rock. Yashua’s church, its all right here in this single verse; and there it goes, in one ear, and straight back out the other………..he that has ears to hear, let him hear. You see Dan, can I call you Dan, Paul wrote in Greek. I’m using the, NKJV, and to be honest its just as bad in places as every other translation. As truth seekers, and I hope every Christian is that, sometimes we need to dig, this is one of those times…..Its likely you didn’t bring a shovel, but that’s ok, I brought two. In Romans 10:17 Paul wrote ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς, ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ. Note: the term ῥήματος (rhēmatos). In fact, note the term πίστις (Pistos) as well.
I did say I brought two shovels. You have very likely been told that if you believe, and confess, your good, your saved? That’s just not true. Its religion, we’ve got a lot of that out there, but all wrong.
Every time a translator comes across pistos, they either go with believe, or faith, but its always pistos, or a form of it. Greek has five cases, always pistos, back to Romans 10:17. Because this is where it comes from….if its real.
Now rhematos; this is translated (word). The two points Paul makes here, are Faith, pistos; and how its received, by the word, rhematos.
How many people thing the word here is scripture?
That by the bible we come to believe in God? (and that’s faith, so salvation?)
All wrong.
Is that what they teach at the church where you are going to take your children? Are you the kind of dad that teaches his children lies?
Keep in mind that every minister has studied Greek. They all know that the translation has problems here and there.
ῥήματος (rhēmatos) is never used to indicate a written form of communication; always/only a spoken word. Paul is telling the reader that the gift of faith is received from God by an encounter with Him. Just Imagin how popular that would be among the masses? Most of whom have never heard God speaking to them? Most don’t thing He ever speaks to anyone; but they believe, and they have been told that’s what it takes.
Daniel I know that’s not your name; love God, repent and call…..
Read Romans 10 from 13 to 17 and see that Paul makes the call the point. All that Call on the name of the Lord are saved. Then he asks how will they call? Note the steps that in time lead to faith. Follow them and encounter God. Few have.
The good news is that by the cross Yashua opened a way, the way to God, to the very thrown, and we, any that will, are invited to come, to call on God. This is the narrow way many seek and few find. Some times people wonder if they’ve called? They wonder how to know? If God answers you, you have called….. Seek the way, find Him, and then preach/witness. We that are church, are all called as disciples to bring the good news and to witness to the power of God in our lives. To family, to friends, on line. You, if you find the way, are church. If not if all you ever have is religion then pick the place that has the best get togethers, and don’t bother about the theology they teach they all have it wrong anyway. Go here or there find those that have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof.
I don’t know you Dan or any that might read this, but I love God and I know He loves me more. So, I know He loves you as well. The only way to please God is to be saved, and to help others do likewise. I encountered Him almost half a century ago, and He is the coolest part of my life. I have four kids that all know Him … not of or about; they know Him. I told all of them He was not just a concept in a book. That if they called, He would answer. Even if I am a crappy dad, I gave them all the best thing any dad can.
If you believe in God, that He’s real, powerful, and loves you. That He said My sheep hear My voice? Why wouldn’t He want to talk to you? Call. If you’ve gotten this far, may God, be near you, may He see you, and incline His ear, may you call Him, Know Him, and bring another.
Considering that his theology changed so much so quickly, he may continue to shift and end up preferring the WCF to the baptist confession.
Presby here, from Ireland. Also my dna is 100% irish according to ancestry. Which is both cool and weird.
You say your not promoting tattoos, but how about a tattoo that reads "1646/1647" ?
Maybe with a footnote to writings from the minutes of the assembly by somebody like Van DixHoorn...might be too OPC.
How would a 1689 affirming Baptist be recommended and accepted by the elders of a PCA church not being able to affirm the PCA Church’s statement of faith? Of course it would depend solely on the membership process for that individual church but I could see this being an obstacle..
Speaking for my church only, we require full subscription to the WCF for officers of the church. Members need only affirm gospel basics and commitment and submission to our church.
There is always LCMS Lutheran Church.
When I became reformed I visited our local LCMS and it was pretty Catholic feeling and there was no preaching if the Word. Plus they dont believe in the Doctrines of Grace I'm pretty sure.
Ever try Lutheranism?
One of the problems with the 17th century confessions is that they reference the 17th century text. People who use the ESV will find some of those references missing from their Bibles.
I would get a tat that says 1646/47ish. The real question is can I get a tattoo for the glory of the Lord? It's like hearing people say "I'm smoking to the glory of God" I'm not sure how that's possible.
If I weren't Catholic, I'd look for the Church that the world despises, for the world despised Jesus, and he would be there. - Fulton Sheen
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.". Things seemed to be going pretty well. That is until Jesus said “For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood,dwelleth in me, and I in him.” This was too much for many of his disciples and “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.” Jesus turns to the 12 and asks, “Will ye also go away? Vs 61, Jesus did not back down, for He said, "Does this offend you?" it offends protestants
Jn 20:21, "As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
Jn 17:18, "Even as thou hast sent Me into the world, so I have sent them into the world."
Jn 17:22-23, "And the glory that thou hast given Me, I have given to
Matt. 28, 18-20: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye, therefore. and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism."
"Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior," or "Ask Jesus into your heart" isn't the biblical answer.
It’s important to be saved from hell, damnation, and the stain of original sin, but what are we saved for? We are saved for union with Christ. Our salvation began when we were born again through baptism and God’s own Divine Life was restored in our souls, making us like Adam and Eve were in the Garden before the Original (first) Sin. As we go through life, we are united with Christ through the Sacraments he left as gifts for us, especially through Penance (forgiveness of our sins committed since Baptism) and the Eucharist (partaking of God’s own Life, His own Divine Nature, 2 Peter 1:4) - until that day when we are truly united with Him in heaven.
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31-46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell. (For the teaching on venial (non-deadly) and mortal (deadly) sins, see 1 John 5:16-17)
What I must do to be saved:
*I must be baptized with water and the Spirit. Mark 16:16, John 3:3-5, Titus 3:5, I Peter 3:20-21. (Exceptions: [1] If I desire Baptism but die before I can be baptized with water and the Spirit, God accepts my desire to be baptized, and [2] If I am killed (martyred) because of my faith, but I have not had the opportunity to be baptized, God accepts my death as my baptism, called the Baptism of Blood).
* I must do the will of God the Father. Matthew 7:21
* I must keep the Commandments of God. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 19:17, 1 Timothy 6:14, and others.
* I must accept the Cross (suffering). Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27. Phil 1:29, and others.
* I must be a member of God's true church. Acts 2:46-47.
* I must confess my sins. James 5:16, I John 1:9, John 20:19-23
* I must heed the words of St. Peter, the first Pope. Acts 11:13-14, Acts 15:7.
* I must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. John 6:51-58, I Corinthians 10:16-17, 11:23-30.
* I must do unto others as I would have them do unto me and love my neighbor as myself. I must feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the sick and those in prison or give other aid to those in need. Luke 10:33 ff, Mt 25:31-46. "Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are very pleasing to God" Hebrews 13:16. Good works don’t save us, but we will be judged by them.
*I must strive to be holy. "Strive for peace with everyone and for that holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14
*I must endure (persevere) to the end. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.
And ... ? What else must I do?
#432 The name "Jesus" signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of
Heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ,
His only Son, our Lord Who was conceived by
the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered
under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell; the third day He
arose again from the dead; He ascended into
Heaven and is seated at the right hand of God
the Father Almighty, from thence He shall come
to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion
of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection
of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
I wish I could copy and paste your post to save for later. This is amazing! Was raised Catholic.
The Reformed Baptist church in my area they have Communion every Sunday. Is that the norm for Reformed Baptist?
Yes. Or it should be.
Am proud to be Presbyterian till I die
39 Articles of Religion, ACNA
RC Sproul and Dr J Vernon Mcgee are both Presbyterian.
Two Questions:
1) How far can "Theological Correctness" take you in the direction of being Christ-like?
2) Is theology the end ... or the means? If the means, then what is the end?
In my humble opinion: 1) How far can "Theological Correctness" take you in the direction of being Christ-like? - not very far, if at all. 2) 2) Is theology the end ... or the means? If the means, then what is the end? - It is neither. The end is eternal life, the means is your relationship with the Lord & Saviour - making Him Lord of your life by being in adherence & obedience to His Teachings & Commands, as delineated & recorded in the four gospels - not the teachings & commands of fallen man and his created institutions, with their adulterated, corrupt, diluted, distorted, perverted, tainted, twisted gospel.
@@alpscraftshack599 Greetings. I have copied the latter half of your response to me here in order for you to consider a point of clarification. Here is the part of your message I'd like to focus on:
"The end is eternal life, the means is your relationship with the Lord & Saviour - making Him Lord of your life by being in adherence & obedience to His Teachings & Commands, as delineated & recorded in the four gospels - not the teachings & commands of fallen man and his created institutions, with their adulterated, corrupt, diluted, distorted, perverted, tainted, twisted gospel."
My point for your consideration is that your words are themselves pure theology. The simple sentence "Jesus loves you," is pure theology. Everything you described as being the proper way to go about being a Christian is pure theology and is to be found in theology text books. Just as you have written the above words to me to explain Christianity properly, so others have done the same with the exact same purpose in mind. So, congratulations, you are a theologian.
I think your target should not be theology but dogma which typically carries a more negative connotation of being man-made traditions posturing as biblical truth. Theology (theo--logy) simply means "God--study" or "talk about God." There is good theology ... and bad. But, just because some do bad theology, we dare not ban theology. That would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I agree, though, with the main thrust of your argument which is a revulsion of the man-made perversions of the Christian faith. I had to laugh 15 years ago when the Roman Catholic Church let purgatory for unbaptized infants quietly "disappear" from their beliefs. This is but one small example of the kind of thing we both abhor.
@@johnritter5951 Thank you for your point of clarification. I agree with the simple plain straight forward definition - the study of God. However, people include / lump many areas under that word (Theology). In my humble opinion, most of those areas included / lumped there, have nothing to do with one's salvation & eternal destiny. Soteriology is the most important aspect / part and is where the most emphasis should be.
@@alpscraftshack599 I agree on all your points.
Matthew , I am sure you are Avery nice and genuine person , but no mention of sola scripture to find God's church for the end times . The reformers died to preserve the bible so that we could study it thereby answering all of our questions . It is the task of The Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth !!!! Try prayer . Also the biblical method of studying the scriptures is much neglected . See ISA 28 :9,10 . In other words comparing scripture with scripture . Precept with precept etc . Reason there are soooooo many denominations is that the way of biblically interpreting the bible has been mostly lost . See 2Pet 1:20 where it says that private interpretation is not permitted . The bible explains itself . Doctrine is vital , sadly many churches are preaching let's just love each other and throw out doctrine . Jesus taught doctrine , do a word search of doctrine . See John 7: 15-17 for example . Of course we are to love each other .
There are clear statements in scripture about what the church for the last days will look like , also what they will be teaching . Be like the Bereans in Acts 17:10 ,11 . . Will pray for you , see you on the sea of glass . XxPat nz ps the truth is the only thing that would satisfy me . After all the truth will set you free - not compromise !!!!! Xxp
@Daniel There are no 1647 Presbyterians. Primarily, we have 1789 and 1903+ Presbyterians. Conservatives like PCA and OPC are 1789 while more liberal PCUSA and EPC are 1903+. Remember that both "conservative" Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists are descendants of Puritans, so “essentials and necessary teachings” of Reformed Theology are preserved.
Confessions are subordinate to the Scripture meaning that interpretations of sacraments/ordinances and church governments can differ slightly within reason, but partaking in them in faith are the essential. Basically, go to the closer PCA and partake in the fellowship with love.
Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) and other small denominations hold to orginal WCF.
@@innovationhq8230 Nope! Scottish delegates were against the Ch 31 where civil magistrates can call Synod among others, but for peace and unity of the British Isle, they compromised like other denominations.
In 1660 when WCF was officially rejected by the Church of England or returned to 39 Articles, Scotland modified Ch 31 and some others which was very similar to 1789 American revision.
You need to remember that 1647 WCF was a failure from acceptance perspective as the de facto replacement for 39 Articles. It was in limbo state in England. Congregationalist were frustrated and made Savoy Declaration 1658 and Baptists on 1689 wrote the Second London Baptist Confession. Both groups based theirs on WCF as the template, but rewrote and removed those sections that they also compromised.
WCF in reality is a failed project in England, but in American Colonies and Scotland, it became the standard.
@@thomasc9036 What sources do you have that show the Scottish delegates disapproving of 31.1? If you could send them I’d be interested in reading them. Have you read Gillespie or Rutherford on the civil magistrate?
@@innovationhq8230 true! I’ll be at GPTS this fall right down the street from Greenville Presbyterian Church (FCC). The FCC is a faithful denomination
I do agree that most American Presbyterians can’t claim to be 1647 bc their Westminster Standards have been altered and their worship does not really resemble 1647 worship. It would be more accurate to call them 1789ers and the liberals would be 1903+ers although many probably don’t even know that their confessions are different than the original.
Orhodox , the first historical church , established by the apostles themselves.
Another tricky question: Browns or Steelers...
Browns all the way!
@@MatthewEverhard Agreed! Grew up in NE Ohio and will forever by a Browns fan.
If Daniel joins the PCA church, would they make him baptize his children if he had any?
That would be a good question to ask them. In the case of my not-exactly-PCA church (the ministers are PCA members; the church isn't), the answer is "no." I'm sure there would be encouragement, but they do not mandate it, nor treat it as a subject of church discipline.
1662 Anglican
Neither... sectarianism is forbidden, it is the whole point of 1 Corinthians 1.
Was your family German Reformed? RCUS-ish?
To give some perspective for your friend. I am also a Presbyterian, but I have been living in Turkey for some time. As you can imagine, there is nit a wide selection of churches here. I lived previously in Istanbul. The only English speaking churches I could find for a while were an Anglican church, a Universalist Evangelical Church, and host of Catholic ones besides . However after a while I learned aboit a Dutch reformed church in the Dutch embassy that speaks English. I have to say it is the most "at home" I felt in a non-Presbyterian church in my life. They are so deeply similar to our belief system and organization. Unfortunately, as I have moved to another city I can no longer go there. Now my options are almost exclusively Catholic and Orthodox. I found one Protestant church that is a kind of universalist church (as it is the only Protestant church it was made to serve all Protestants in my city) with different pastors every week, mostly Evangelical but also some more mainline ones on occassion. It isn't the best situation, but it reminds me of the verse, "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." I just wanted to give some perspective to your friend and everyone. The most important thing is to have a church and associated community and to gather in Jesus's name. We have been closed down many times. We have faced many restrictions and difficulties. I am simply grateful that there is a Protestant church at all. I enjoy your videos. Hello from a Presbyterian on the other side of the globe!
I am a Turkish reformed person who will be living in Ankara soon. I hope I can find reformed churches there
@@batuhanaca2214 I think they have Turkish speaking ones. My issue was language. I would be glad to meet up kardeşim.
I’d be glad to meet a fellow Christian. Teşekkürler ^^. By the way I am thinking of trying the Anglican Church located at the British embassy. If they dont accept me I guess Korean Protestants would let me in :D
I didnt know they had an anglican church in the British Embassy. I will try it out some day. My father was Anglican
Anyway i am happy to see a foreigner who decided to live in my country. If you ever come to Ankara, you can find me studying at Bilkent University. You can also contact me anytime you want.
Christ church, body of the saved, kingdom of God, church of Christ, church of God, bride of Christ any Biblical designation will work. I don't read of 1689 Baptist nor 1647 Presbyterian in the 1st century New Testament. Why can't one just be a Christian like they became a Christian and a member of the church belonging to Christ add by God and not belong to any denomination?
1644 should always be in parentheses next to 1689, far to often I feel like Presbyterians infer that their confession came first 😂. Love the channel Matt, keep the content coming sir.
It did. The Westminster Assembly convened in 1643. The First LBC and the 1689 are not the same. The WCF is certainly not based off the Baptist Confession, but the Presbyerian Scotts Confession of 1560.
@@Christian-vq8rd well the First LBC was actually started in 1643 as well so I guess you could say that there is a tie there, but the publication was earlier with the particular baptists. As far as the differences in the FLBC and the 1689, you can just look at what the authors said regrading the differences, they stated only the “method and manner of expression” were different. Theologically they are not different enough to say (with such a sweeping statement) that the are “not the same thing.”
Dear Brother. Pastor Boucham has a great preaching about the BLCF 1689. I don’t think he would be happy with your argument “the 1689 is a copy of the WMCF”. PAB (peace among brothers)
Haven't watched the video, but my guess is ... neither.
Don't fully trust that ancestry report, it isn't necessarily accurate. I know for a fact my Native American background, and none of it shows up on the report.
If you were the only PCA pastor I knew, I would believe the PCA makes excellent pastors. I say that after watching your TH-cam videos over several years.
One doesn't have to be a new Reformed Christian to have strict and sometimes oppressive attitudes towards those who do not hold identical views. When I became a Pentecostal Holiness Christian in 1985 at age 25, I was intolerant of many who did not share my views. It took me about 4 years to loosen up, and I was moving away from Pentecostal distinctives by then. I actually ended up floating around until I was almost 40 as I came into contact with different kinds of Christians and read about them. I've pretty much held the same doctrines since then, over 20 years now, which is a good thing. As a result, I'm probably a little bit too tolerant, though Ithink Closed Communion acts as an anchor for me.
My PCA church does not baptizes babies unless the parents want 🫤 so I suggest anyone with that question to ask directly to the church.
I also suggest (in a case between reformed churches) to actually yes, give it a try and go to the closer church because 1) you may learn something you didn’t expect, 2) you may meet friends you didn’t know the Lord had there for you, 3) you may end up having a good relationship with the pastor even though there are differences, 4) you may realize that Christians we see each other as all part of a big family. The Church is more than a “school” meaning a place to learn theology, is also a place to find community for your children and wife and that needs to be close to your home so she can have play dates for the kids and make friends with other moms; a place to find activities for your teenagers so they don’t feel tempted by this sinful world; a place to find volunteering activities to serve as the Lord has called us to do throughout scripture; a place to give each other hope and compassion in a world that is becoming more and more sinful 💔
So yes, in my humble opinion, if the churches are reformed, I hope people do give it a chance 😊
Mainland three forms of unity... Lol.
I'm part of a PCA.
Matt, are you sure you’re not part black?
If one thinks they've finally found the perfect church wait a while, it won't be perfect much longer:) HA!
Is the term "New Covenant" found in either one?
New Covenant Whole Gospel:
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14.
Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (Acts 2:36)
Watch the TH-cam video “The New Covenant” by Bob George.
==================
Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says? What did Peter say below?
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water when they read the word "baptize" in the text. Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?
Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
“baptize” KJV
Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
I thought you were Presbyterian, not Reformed Baptist.
Well I'd say 1562 Anglican. . . .
I' d rather stay in 33 Catholic
I prefer the 33 AD Catholic Church 🤩. The one created by Christ and founded by Peter Simon.
This is an earnest plea to all Roman Catholics. th-cam.com/video/utIAnY5I8CU/w-d-xo.html
Paedobaptism is keeping me from trying Presbyterian
Neither
Those DNA tests are not infallible!
A critique to the Westminster Confession of Faith: th-cam.com/video/Qu6TInBszqo/w-d-xo.html
Does Scripture interpret Scripture (article IX of the WCF)? No, it does not.
Just a few comments. first, the 1689 baptist confession was deliberately written to mimic the westminster confession, because baptists were trying to be "legalized" in england. however, even tho they used the same terminology in many places, the baptists meant something totally different from what the westminster meant. they were trying to "pass muster" for the parliament and king, so as to not be branded as heretics. many reformed calvinists affirm that many people are saved whether they ever respond to the gospel or not, even if they never here about christ. after all, being "elected" by God has no conditions right? unfortunately, these so called "reformed" baptists fail to get this. you cannot be both reformed and baptist, period. however that doesnt mean i dont regard many presbyterians as brothers, but covenant theology disallows my automatic acceptance of all of them as brothers. choose which you want to be...a calvinistic baptist or a creedal confessional reformed presbyterian. the phoenix reformed baptist church goes so far as to place the chalcedonian creed as part of their beliefs, which state that mary is the mother of God. totally unacceptable for any claiming to be baptist. baptists are not protestant by the classic definition of the term. we never came from the roman church. we brought none of the ecclesiology, sacramentalism, baptism, episcopacy, synod, or creeds etc from the roman church. spurgeon was quite clear on this. there are NO "ecumenical" creeds formulated by the catholic church that baptists can agree with, except the apostles creed, thus baptists have always been a non creedal people. we never tried to "reform" anything, much less the catholic church. next, as a baptist, itd be hard to swallow joining a church, that historically persecuted baptists, especially without a public universal apology from said church. (check out the video "swiss inheritance" where the state reformed church of geneva brought together baptists and anabaptists and officially repented and apologized for what they did. its very moving) these so called "reformed" baptists are neither reformed nor baptist. ive only been in a few of their churches, and being a true baptist myself, found them very strange, and i felt as tho i were in a cult. pastr everhard mentioned that unless ur able to not cause trouble, then dont join a pres church. i agree. my church got a new pastor who lied about his being "reformed" and calvinist. we were a non calvinist baptist church. we had 3000 (yes 3 thousand) members. now the church doesnt even exist. sorry but i can trust the presbyterians at least, but will never trust a so called "reformed baptist"
The dates are irrelevant. Also it's about preaching the true gospel of Christ.
Both fall short.
Come now you who say : I am presbyterian , Methodist , Baptist .....non denominational are you not carnal?
I find it weird that someone is disappointed to learn what their ancestry is. What bearing does where your great great great great grandparents lived have on your life or who you are? We are all human beings who live on planet earth and we all live in a particular culture at the present time. What really matters beyond that? There are so many terrible things that happen in this fallen world, I think spending any time being upset about what part of the planet your distant ancestors lived in, something that's almost entirely irrelevant to what's going on in your life and community today, is a shame.
The catechisms are not infallible. They may have value but the Bible is the word to follow . If the pastor doesn't follow the soteriology of the Bible. Run.
Take baptism. Presbyterian have one believe and Baptist have another. Does that mean one of these denominations are going to hell (No). Think about it, Christ wasn't Baptisted until He was 30 years old. No one mentions this but Christ was baptized twice. One by John and then by God.
As soon as Jesus was baptised, he came up out of the water. Heaven was opened and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
He was baptized with water and Spirit at 30 years old.
So should everyone be baptized at 30 years old? What about in the Jordan river?
Neither, both will lead to depression and anxiety 😟