Voltage measurements are irrelevant if you are using connections that are only finger tight. Everything must be fully torqued down to the correct numbers. One day you are going to have a fire. TIGHTEN EVERYTHING DOWN!!!
Yeah. Ian, I've had a car fail at a gas stop, having driven from the dealer and restarted 3 or 4 times, because they accidentally left one of the battery clamps loose. Tighten your damned clamps, man. When working on the engine, and you want the ground loose, fine. But when you go to really start it, or commission the car for driving more than around the shop, tighen the battery clamps, or else you will just keep having this problem.
@@fsodn What interests me is that the previous French cars I've owned (both Renaults, from 1974 and 1982) had battery isolators in the negative lead from the factory - a plastic wing nut which threaded onto a post on the battery terminal, which in turn lifted away the negative lead to the bodywork. Thing is, Ian's been castigated in the comments before for leaving things done up finger-tight (The wipers on the 2CV come to mind here but it's usually battery terminals) with the excuse of "I don't have tools in every car" - which is a bit of a lame excuse. I made up a useful toolkit in a roll (mostly spanners and screwdrivers, with a couple of pairs of pliers) and it just got thrown in the boot of whichever car I was driving.
Had a similar case once, turned out to be a bad battery connection. All good for small lights, but not enough amps for the starter. The battery terminals had collected a thin, almost invisible oxide layer, had to sand them down a bit. See how much the voltage drops while trying the starter to check if it's something like that or a short.
This would definitely be the first port of call. Clean the terminals and even use some of that battery terminal past/spray to ensure there's a good solid connection. Having the terminals loosely connected like that might be the problem itself. Might.
I installed a start button on my 2cv due to the dodgy ignition switch. worked well every time and helped diagnose the many dodgy starters it had in its lifetime. Enjoying your endless enthusiasm for these time honoured bangers.
Maybe you could fix the alt warning light that never quite goes out whilst you're in there ? Starter may have a dead spot ,however start by cleaning both of the battery terminal connections,once that is done and they are both properly tightened remove the earth connection to the engine block and the body ground,clean and replace both ensuring tightness then try and start the engine listening to the operating speed of the starter motor,then take a good jump lead and connect one end to the ground on the battery neg terminal and attach the other end to the engine block close to the starter listening to the starter does the extra earth lead make any difference in its operating speed if so you have either a lazy starter or a high resistance on the ground/ earth lead give me a call if you need any advice R.
One thing that was never established here was did all the lights and instruments on the dash go out when Carly turned the switch to what should be the "start" position? Normally that's a sign of a dead/high internal resistance battery (but could be a fault in the ignition switch too, I appreciate). Equally, I'd want to be seeing volts appear at the starter solenoid from the ignition switch when turning the key. A test lamp with insulated croc clips and a useful length of leads would be invaluable here, because you could clip the leads onto the terminals/chassis and place the lamp where you could see it from the cockpit, ideal if you're fault-chasing on your own. Also, the current draw of a proper filament lamp will find poor/high-resistance contacts much faster than a multimeter with an input resistance of 10 Megohms.
When Miss Hubnut tried to start her, all the warning lights dimmed. Would seem like a poor battery connection, or a jammed starter. Have to say, when you put the battery lead on, you didn't appear to tighten it with a spanner. I can see why you might want to disconnect quickly, but it should be tighter.
loose battery conection can convey a small current but aometimes the large requirement for the starter causes the connection to fail at that loose point. Maybe check there is no oxidation at that clamp.
Testing continuity with a multi-meter doesn’t mean the earth strap is okay when under load. Definitely worth checking its connections and condition. Also try connecting a wire directly from battery to solenoid trigger. Might help you locate the fault.
Agreed, one strand of earth cable would give you continuity with a meter but once it is asked to carry a high current it cannot and becomes a huge resistor to what you are trying to power. It cannot hurt to add another substantial engine to body earth strap as well for redundancy. I wonder if there is a faulty relay involved between the key and the starter solenoid feed Ian?
Yep, an ideal voltmeter would draw absolutely no current, and a modern digital multimeter on the volts range draws very little current indeed. This makes it really good at measuring voltage, as series resistance has very little effect on the reading. Also makes it a lousy tool for determining whether or not you have a low resistance connection that is capable of delivering significant current.
Try tightening that loose battery terminal as that may cause it .The lights go dim on dash as resistance goes up as starter tries to draw more power than the loose fitting can flow .
It looks like you have a battery that doesn't have enough crancking Amps left. Although it shows 12,6 V it doesn't mean it can deliver the needed amps. Maybe have a new battery ready, slightly bigger one, also check all the ground wires, sparkplug ok, ignition.
That was my thoughts exactly. The instrument lights going very dim when trying to crack seemed like a weak battery to me. Trying some jump leads from another car to see if that makes a difference.
I think my immediate suspicion would be a dicky starter motor. The fact that she decided to start on the key after having been running for a bit suggests to me that there is something loose inside the gubbins of the starter motor itself, possibly brushes, causing a dead earth contact type of thing. It starts on the handle and (presumably) from a bump start, so the ignition itself is ok.
Could you put power to the starter directly to test, if it spins up then all good but if not you know it's DOA. Also sometimes depending on where the contacts fall after it's spun it can land in a dead spot?
Sounds like the starter solenoid might be borked, especially if the lug where all the everything bolts onto is loose in the housing causing intermittent operation, though why it makes everything go dead, damned if I know, because french I guess... :P
Probably worth doing some voltage drop tests on various parts of the starter circuit. First one, put Multimeter on dc volts, positive lead on battery positive terminal, negative lead on the starter solenoid terminal (the one with the big wire) and crank. If you see more than 0.5v, you have a poor connection between the battery and starter (corrosion, loose terminals etc), also worth checking what voltage you get at the "encouragment to start" terminal with the key turned to start. If its significantly lower than battery voltage, you may have a worn out ignition switch with high resistance/dirty internal contacts.
Isn't it amazing how some cars love to repay you when you have nice things done for them! With regards using the multi-meter, it is worth bearing in mind that just because the circuit shows good - for example a nice healthy 12.5v, does not mean the circuit is capable of carrying current. If there is high resistance in a circuit (bad contact), you may well see 12.5v without any load on the circuit, but the second you load the circuit down with some current draw, the voltage will fall flat on it's face. I test light made from a brake lamp bulb - the old 21w variety, will give a much better indication of how good a circuit is, if the lamp only just manages to light, or is very dim, whilst your multi-meter said 12.5v before hand, you know you have a bad connection. Using a high powered test light as helped me numerous times in find a bad earth or other connections, when according to the multi-meter there was not a problem. Always remember, just because a circuit can carry a voltage, does not mean it can carry any sizeable current.
I think I did hear a solenoid click which could mean a bad battery, loose or dirty connections, faulty starter, or something else. More investigation required. Battery test, starter draw, search for battery depletion cause if any. Start by taking the battery out wash it down in baking soda, sandpaper the terminals and clamps, recharge with a charger and try again. If it won’t take a charge sufficiently take it to Halfords for testing. Or perhaps just swap in a battery is known to work as a short term trial.
As many of the other comments have mentioned try giving the terminals a bit of a clean with sand paper as batteries do tend to oxidize and get dirty over time. It's a similar oxidation you get with model railways as when the track and loco wheels get dirty over time the continuity can cause shortages or no power issues. Failing the cleaning it could be starter solenoid playing up.
That happened to me once on my MK2 Clio. A few times it lost power when turning the key then completely lost it altogether. Turned out to be a corroded negative battery wire running to the starter motor. It was fine after that.
Always tighten the battery clamps, remove the starter and clean the throw out shaft may be dirty, spray some electric cleaner down the ignition barrel may be not connecting. I have a small toolbox to keep essential tools just in case , in one of my old cars all the time.
I'd go with a loose battery connection with some corrosion hiding or a dodgy starter motor, when my Fiesta used to be a pain a couple well placed thumps with a jack handle kicked the starter motor into life. No issues since fitting one from a Transit connect which is about half the size and turns the engine over with ease! Win win.
I had something similar many years ago. I could tap the starter motor and it would re engage and would then start. On removing the starter motor it was all gunged up and sticking. When all cleaned up it worked properly again! Your battery terminals need to be clean and tight! Probably a good idea to remove and clean earths too. Then hopefully you can sort and clean the carburettor and then have a reliable car again. 🤔👍👀
I did the starter solenoid nut tigtening on the 356 recently, and the top of the 50+ years old solenoid broke off! So that also turned into a whole day of tinkering... Fortunately I had some old VW parts on the shelves, so it only cost some hours.
A sticky starter solenoid probably. It is top of the starter motor what is very handy. Just take the rubber cover off and you can push the solenoid with a flat screwdriver and it activates it and the starter comes alive.
Aaarrrggghhh! Use your multimeter to see whether there is 12v appearing on the starter solenoid engage cable when you turn the key. If yes, then the starter solenoid is sticking. If no then the key switch is dirty and needs cleaning.
My VW campervan had a similar problem. I suspected the battery. Turns out that the starter motor had got some water in it, which was sometimes preventing current from getting through. New starter cured the problem.
She's a French lady so craves love but can also show a bit of a temper or just be downright awkward. As has been mentioned, clean the battery posts and tighten the connections, cover with petroleum jelly to prevent any corrosion. Yes install a master kill switch but somewhere accessible out of sight but not under the bonnet in case of a fire, one won't get burned turning it off. It also saves the fire brigade from chopping the cables with an axe if only a minor one. The switch can also double as an anti theft device if well concealed.
The earth continuity check is a start but to really understand if the earth is at fault you need to test it under load. The best way to do that is to measure the voltage as it's cranking/ in the starter position on the key. If it drops massively then you have an earth or connection issue, if the voltage stays high/ doesn't change then the starter is not even trying and you can look to the key switch or solenoid connection for a fault. Especially with modern cars/ ECUs (not a GSA thing, I know) I am finding that a connection quality and cleanliness as well as a good battery to begin with are really important. Gone are the days you can limp a car with weak battery/ charging for miles... On that matter, 12.6v says the battery is not fully charged, more like half capacity at that. 12.8+v would be fully charged, perhaps check alternator output before heading away. I had to change the voltage regulator in my old Passat alternator a while ago as 12.9-13v charge voltage just wasn't doing the job yet the dash light was going out as usual. A rake about the shed for the salvaged alternator I'd been kicking for years, quick regulator swap and 14.2v charge voltage fixed it. Good luck!
When I was a young guy of about 21/22 years I had a 1972 Mercedes-Benz 200 Diesel (W115). My friends also, because back then they were cheap, big and cool cars. Another guy sold his 200 D to me and a friend of mine for 50 (!) Deutsche Mark. Imagine that! Reason: serious starting problems. What was it? It was the loose and corroded mass cable from the starter motor. Refixed and: tadaaa - black smoke again. My friend kept this car, sold his one and we shared the 900 DM he got. That was good fun...
Experienced the similarly intermittent problem with an elderly 1.8L Alfa Giulietta - to fix it I installed a slave relay closer to the starter motor (operated by the the ignition start switch output) to deliver the high current capacity required by the starter motor solenoid engagement. The common problem is that the ignition switch start contacts are light duty - with age/wear they lose their capacity to deliver the heavy current required to engage the starter solenoid. It's a good idea to do this mod anyway as it will greatly prolong the life of the expensive (and often fragile) complex original switch mechanisms.
first thing i would do is do those battery terminals up tight. plus 12.6 volts is at the bottom of the amount needed to crank the engine and loose terminals wont help.
Be careful - multimeters have a high resistance thus draw no load so will show good across a high resistance joint plus a battery can show 12v+ off load when knackered
So, multimeter to the the "encourage to start" wire. Crank the engine, is there battery voltage? This will confirm the switch is OK. And test the solenoid low current Jump cable, to the gearbox bell housing, the battery earth. Earth cable may not be able to carry the start current! Also, you could short the two high current terminals on the solenoid, to check solenoid issues
I used to have a similar problem on an Astra I had. Starter motor would stick so the electrics weren’t powerful enough to turn it. The work around was to put it in 4th gear and push it a few inches then try again. Always started straight away after. No idea why really. Got another couple years out of that starter though 😂
I had an identical issue with a hire car. Turned out to be a failing internal connection in the battery. It would work fine when running but starting was a lottery.
You need to measure voltage drop while pulling current. Since some of the dashlights go dim when trying to run starter there is massive voltage drop. Try battery negative to engine and then battery possitive to startermotor solenoid possitive input and solenoid positive output.
I’m not familiar with gsa’s but I would jump the starter solenoid connections with a well insulated screwdriver. If it starts no problem it could be the solenoid or the ignition switch. No start then starter or battery. Halfrauds do free battery tests, then starter is all that’s left. If starter and battery ok, apply 12v to starter solenoid direct from battery to solenoid small wire, if it starts then it’s ignition switch, if not suspect solenoid.
It is probably a stuck Bendix, next time put it in 4th gear and rock it back and forth till the Bendix comes back off the starter ring.. it's common on older cars.. hope this helps.
Did you try turning the engine a little on the starter handle, and then using the electric starter? We had a similar symptom on an old Metro. Put it into first gear, move the car a foot or so, stick it into Neutral and then try starting. It worked every time. That was caused by a dead spot on the starter motor commutator.
Citroen. I tried replacing the passenger window mechanism on my van after it fell out. All the manuals and online advice told me to undo four bolts. No. They were rivets. #BecauseFrench
So if the swith sounds like a constipated crow it could be a problem 🤔 I would say the solenoid or ignition switch it faulty. You can get quick release battery terminals. There used on caravan leisure batteries. Loose terminals will not help at all.
Amps Volts and Ohms. You need some Amps flowing to conclusively test a battery or /and connections. Else it's like trying to detect a leek in an already deflated tire. Monitor the battery voltage directly on battery terminals and then on Battery connectors whilst trying to crank engine or just with the headlights on full. The voltage will drop to 10V whilst cranking even with a good battery and connections, Near Zero with poor battery or connections. With headlights on and a poor battery the voltage will quickly dive bellow 11v Again to test earthing connections switch lots of stuff on including ignition and test between battery negative terminal post ( not clamp terminal ) and engine then car body, you should see no more than about 0.2 V if all is well.
Get the choke cable adjusted. No it won't help with the electrics but should help with the cold starts. Check the small wire to the starter solenoid to see if the spade terminal is good. I think you called it the encourager. Put a serrated lock washer on the main terminal.
I would test that 12v is present at the starter motor exciter wire when the ignition switch is turned to the start position. If there is 12 present, your pretty much sure the starter motor is knackered.
Testing with a multimeter is a waste of time. Check with a substituted load I.e. a bulb. A headlamp bulb should give you about 4.5 amps. Definitely a dodgy earth strap or power lead. TIGHTEN The battery terminals! You can also do a voltage drop test.
Leaving battery terminals loose is asking for trouble. A loose battery terminal will give readings on a multimeter, allow the radio to work and such like but it will NOT start the car.
You want to be watching the voltage as you try various things (ignition on, crank, etc'). You can get a rough idea of current draw from the voltage drop you see, hence whether current is flowing as expected (or not)
You have got to look for this fault under load conditions. Put the meter across the battery first and start the car. If the voltage holds up then the bad connection is associated with the starter solenoid or beyond. Move the meter to other parts of the circuit, start the car and when you find the voltage dropping you have found your bad connection.
Starter motor. Most definitely, whip it out and get it repaired or swapped and you'll be good to go. Did you try the screwdriver across the terminals of the starter? I had a dodgy starter and it would randomly not work and sometimes work fine, second hand one did the trick.
Probably alldown to a bad earth connection. Testing with a multimeter doesn't give a true picture because the meter is very very low current ( milliamps) which could pass through a dodgy connection but trying to shove a load of scores of amps through the connection and it just wont go. Thouroughly check all the power and earth straps, engine and body as they all need to be clean and tight. The fact that all the dash lights dim when you try to start also points to a bad connection.
Worth takin it to ur garage to get checked out . Deffo seems like a starter issue with itself . Shorting out insinde i may think . Id tighten up ur battery connection thats the worst thing havin them slack . I was allways told keep them tight . . Hope u get giselle sorted out . Beacause french . Lol . I now own an 09 reg renault modus grand diesel . With the dci engine in it . Great car . I think.
Either the electrical part of the ignition is burning in or the starter motor commutator is dirty and won't work if it's standing still in the dirtiest place. Maybe Foxanne is an option to drive to the Netherlands.
Dodgy battery, loose connections, Ignition switch. Tight battery connections are critical on some stuff (D2's too!) Try jump leads from another battery next time.
If she can stay running then no problem. Hand starting her isn't too difficult. I believe your problem probably is the starter's solenoid. Keeps doing shame stupidities on my Datsun 120Y. Sometimes the starter doesn't engage and sometimes it doesn't disengage
Try whacking the starter motor with blunt end of a hammer (handle) as key is being turned. I'd start with a freshly charged battery and properly tightened terminals however....
You would have to check the voltage when you are actually cranking the engine to know where the voltage is dropped. That is not that easy but can be done with two people
Bad battery!!! Showing good voltage, but can’t give the “power” in Amps - thus the dash lights dimmed when key turned. Try new battery and tight connections! Good luck!
I had a similar problem went through a few batteries before I realised quite by accident the lead to the starter motor was loose on the starter motor, when you turn the ignition to turn the starter motor on the car automatically cuts the power to the rest of the car and sends it to the starter motor so it looks like your battery is gone when it hasn’t
Try some resistance tests ie battery-clamp to post, I have had this from loose connections in the past, as others have said too. Good to see some tinkering though.
Great as usual..... Just a thought think you should start at the beginning and tighten the battery terminal up they should be clean and tight no doubt about it then trace connections from there, I have no doubt you know what your doing looks fun but tighten it up,, oh and move that spear wheel its a trip hazard lol great films keep em coming 👍👍👍
As others have said, it's a good idea to clean and properly tighten the battery terminals, otherwise you are pi**ing in the wind trying to fault find!!😀
Voltage measurements are irrelevant if you are using connections that are only finger tight. Everything must be fully torqued down to the correct numbers. One day you are going to have a fire. TIGHTEN EVERYTHING DOWN!!!
Yeah. Ian, I've had a car fail at a gas stop, having driven from the dealer and restarted 3 or 4 times, because they accidentally left one of the battery clamps loose.
Tighten your damned clamps, man. When working on the engine, and you want the ground loose, fine. But when you go to really start it, or commission the car for driving more than around the shop, tighen the battery clamps, or else you will just keep having this problem.
@@fsodn What interests me is that the previous French cars I've owned (both Renaults, from 1974 and 1982) had battery isolators in the negative lead from the factory - a plastic wing nut which threaded onto a post on the battery terminal, which in turn lifted away the negative lead to the bodywork. Thing is, Ian's been castigated in the comments before for leaving things done up finger-tight (The wipers on the 2CV come to mind here but it's usually battery terminals) with the excuse of "I don't have tools in every car" - which is a bit of a lame excuse. I made up a useful toolkit in a roll (mostly spanners and screwdrivers, with a couple of pairs of pliers) and it just got thrown in the boot of whichever car I was driving.
As you're aware battery connections are meant to be clean and tight, not just set on. I hope you get the issue sorted for your trip.
Had a similar case once, turned out to be a bad battery connection. All good for small lights, but not enough amps for the starter. The battery terminals had collected a thin, almost invisible oxide layer, had to sand them down a bit. See how much the voltage drops while trying the starter to check if it's something like that or a short.
This would definitely be the first port of call. Clean the terminals and even use some of that battery terminal past/spray to ensure there's a good solid connection. Having the terminals loosely connected like that might be the problem itself. Might.
@@grid212 My car refuses to crank if the battery terminals are not tightened up properly.
I installed a start button on my 2cv due to the dodgy ignition switch. worked well every time and helped diagnose the many dodgy starters it had in its lifetime. Enjoying your endless enthusiasm for these time honoured bangers.
And rightfully so! Ladies that are that classy deserve more attention!
It's all the good living with Miss Hubnut. Feeding you up!
Gotta be bad connection. I don’t like the idea of leaving battery loose.
Maybe you could fix the alt warning light that never quite goes out whilst you're in there ?
Starter may have a dead spot ,however start by cleaning both of the battery terminal connections,once that is done and they are both properly tightened remove the earth connection to the engine block and the body ground,clean and replace both ensuring tightness then try and start the engine listening to the operating speed of the starter motor,then take a good jump lead and connect one end to the ground on the battery neg terminal and attach the other end to the engine block close to the starter listening to the starter does the extra earth lead make any difference in its operating speed if so you have either a lazy starter or a high resistance on the ground/ earth lead give me a call if you need any advice R.
You can also check the starter relay as well if it has one. You may have a soon to be dead starter.
One thing that was never established here was did all the lights and instruments on the dash go out when Carly turned the switch to what should be the "start" position? Normally that's a sign of a dead/high internal resistance battery (but could be a fault in the ignition switch too, I appreciate). Equally, I'd want to be seeing volts appear at the starter solenoid from the ignition switch when turning the key. A test lamp with insulated croc clips and a useful length of leads would be invaluable here, because you could clip the leads onto the terminals/chassis and place the lamp where you could see it from the cockpit, ideal if you're fault-chasing on your own. Also, the current draw of a proper filament lamp will find poor/high-resistance contacts much faster than a multimeter with an input resistance of 10 Megohms.
When Miss Hubnut tried to start her, all the warning lights dimmed. Would seem like a poor battery connection, or a jammed starter. Have to say, when you put the battery lead on, you didn't appear to tighten it with a spanner. I can see why you might want to disconnect quickly, but it should be tighter.
If the battery terminal is just a push fit, then you're straight away asking for trouble, self imposed problem.
@@brucepickess8097
100% agree with that statement. Dont understand why ppl do it even, its not a huge job...😂
loose battery conection can convey a small current but aometimes the large requirement for the starter causes the connection to fail at that loose point. Maybe check there is no oxidation at that clamp.
Testing continuity with a multi-meter doesn’t mean the earth strap is okay when under load. Definitely worth checking its connections and condition.
Also try connecting a wire directly from battery to solenoid trigger. Might help you locate the fault.
Agreed, one strand of earth cable would give you continuity with a meter but once it is asked to carry a high current it cannot and becomes a huge resistor to what you are trying to power. It cannot hurt to add another substantial engine to body earth strap as well for redundancy. I wonder if there is a faulty relay involved between the key and the starter solenoid feed Ian?
eeh, no short circuits with jump wires.
What he said - agree could be bad earth strap
Agree with this. Why using the buzzer function on a multimeter is useless for continuity.
Yep, an ideal voltmeter would draw absolutely no current, and a modern digital multimeter on the volts range draws very little current indeed. This makes it really good at measuring voltage, as series resistance has very little effect on the reading. Also makes it a lousy tool for determining whether or not you have a low resistance connection that is capable of delivering significant current.
Try tightening that loose battery terminal as that may cause it .The lights go dim on dash as resistance goes up as starter tries to draw more power than the loose fitting can flow .
It looks like you have a battery that doesn't have enough crancking Amps left. Although it shows 12,6 V it doesn't mean it can deliver the needed amps. Maybe have a new battery ready, slightly bigger one, also check all the ground wires, sparkplug ok, ignition.
Yes you should a t least try measuring the voltage with a switch trying to draw current; off disconnected voltage is pretty meaningless
That was my thoughts exactly. The instrument lights going very dim when trying to crack seemed like a weak battery to me. Trying some jump leads from another car to see if that makes a difference.
I think my immediate suspicion would be a dicky starter motor. The fact that she decided to start on the key after having been running for a bit suggests to me that there is something loose inside the gubbins of the starter motor itself, possibly brushes, causing a dead earth contact type of thing. It starts on the handle and (presumably) from a bump start, so the ignition itself is ok.
Could you put power to the starter directly to test, if it spins up then all good but if not you know it's DOA. Also sometimes depending on where the contacts fall after it's spun it can land in a dead spot?
I agree, give it a tap next time to see if it suddenly springs to life.
Bouncing on the front wing suspension can sometimes free up a stuck starter motor.
Is it the selonoid, that engages the starter motor?
Sounds like the starter solenoid might be borked, especially if the lug where all the everything bolts onto is loose in the housing causing intermittent operation, though why it makes everything go dead, damned if I know, because french I guess... :P
ITS FRENCH, made not to work lol, thank u for the video 🥰🚙
Thanks for letting us know about the Sierras ;-)
I was wondering if they were Mr H’s…………..
Probably worth doing some voltage drop tests on various parts of the starter circuit. First one, put Multimeter on dc volts, positive lead on battery positive terminal, negative lead on the starter solenoid terminal (the one with the big wire) and crank. If you see more than 0.5v, you have a poor connection between the battery and starter (corrosion, loose terminals etc), also worth checking what voltage you get at the "encouragment to start" terminal with the key turned to start. If its significantly lower than battery voltage, you may have a worn out ignition switch with high resistance/dirty internal contacts.
Good advice. I came here to say this too.
Isn't it amazing how some cars love to repay you when you have nice things done for them! With regards using the multi-meter, it is worth bearing in mind that just because the circuit shows good - for example a nice healthy 12.5v, does not mean the circuit is capable of carrying current. If there is high resistance in a circuit (bad contact), you may well see 12.5v without any load on the circuit, but the second you load the circuit down with some current draw, the voltage will fall flat on it's face. I test light made from a brake lamp bulb - the old 21w variety, will give a much better indication of how good a circuit is, if the lamp only just manages to light, or is very dim, whilst your multi-meter said 12.5v before hand, you know you have a bad connection. Using a high powered test light as helped me numerous times in find a bad earth or other connections, when according to the multi-meter there was not a problem. Always remember, just because a circuit can carry a voltage, does not mean it can carry any sizeable current.
New engine in Elly before a trip where have I seen that before ????
Elly....new engine......looming Europe trip, we've been here before haven't we?
Leaving battery terminals that loose is a BAD idea.
I couldn't hear if the solenoid was clicking or not?
I think I did hear a solenoid click which could mean a bad battery, loose or dirty connections, faulty starter, or something else. More investigation required. Battery test, starter draw, search for battery depletion cause if any. Start by taking the battery out wash it down in baking soda, sandpaper the terminals and clamps, recharge with a charger and try again. If it won’t take a charge sufficiently take it to Halfords for testing. Or perhaps just swap in a battery is known to work as a short term trial.
The ignition switch tracks could be worn,maybe worth bridging wires on the back of the switch when it next plays up
As many of the other comments have mentioned try giving the terminals a bit of a clean with sand paper as batteries do tend to oxidize and get dirty over time. It's a similar oxidation you get with model railways as when the track and loco wheels get dirty over time the continuity can cause shortages or no power issues. Failing the cleaning it could be starter solenoid playing up.
That happened to me once on my MK2 Clio. A few times it lost power when turning the key then completely lost it altogether. Turned out to be a corroded negative battery wire running to the starter motor. It was fine after that.
The trouble is that it’s a citron.
Always tighten the battery clamps, remove the starter and clean the throw out shaft may be dirty, spray some electric cleaner down the ignition barrel may be not connecting. I have a small toolbox to keep essential tools just in case , in one of my old cars all the time.
check the bendix, perhaps the coil contacts are dirty, also check the ignition barrel. Cleaning earthing points is always of a help.
I'd go with a loose battery connection with some corrosion hiding or a dodgy starter motor, when my Fiesta used to be a pain a couple well placed thumps with a jack handle kicked the starter motor into life. No issues since fitting one from a Transit connect which is about half the size and turns the engine over with ease! Win win.
I had something similar many years ago. I could tap the starter motor and it would re engage and would then start. On removing the starter motor it was all gunged up and sticking. When all cleaned up it worked properly again! Your battery terminals need to be clean and tight! Probably a good idea to remove and clean earths too. Then hopefully you can sort and clean the carburettor and then have a reliable car again. 🤔👍👀
I did the starter solenoid nut tigtening on the 356 recently, and the top of the 50+ years old solenoid broke off! So that also turned into a whole day of tinkering... Fortunately I had some old VW parts on the shelves, so it only cost some hours.
A sticky starter solenoid probably. It is top of the starter motor what is very handy. Just take the rubber cover off and you can push the solenoid with a flat screwdriver and it activates it and the starter comes alive.
Aaarrrggghhh! Use your multimeter to see whether there is 12v appearing on the starter solenoid engage cable when you turn the key. If yes, then the starter solenoid is sticking. If no then the key switch is dirty and needs cleaning.
It's frustrating to watch sometimes!
My VW campervan had a similar problem. I suspected the battery. Turns out that the starter motor had got some water in it, which was sometimes preventing current from getting through. New starter cured the problem.
She's a French lady so craves love but can also show a bit of a temper or just be downright awkward. As has been mentioned, clean the battery posts and tighten the connections, cover with petroleum jelly to prevent any corrosion. Yes install a master kill switch but somewhere accessible out of sight but not under the bonnet in case of a fire, one won't get burned turning it off. It also saves the fire brigade from chopping the cables with an axe if only a minor one. The switch can also double as an anti theft device if well concealed.
Don't you hate it when your ignition goes "WAAAA!"? 😂😂😂😂
The earth continuity check is a start but to really understand if the earth is at fault you need to test it under load. The best way to do that is to measure the voltage as it's cranking/ in the starter position on the key. If it drops massively then you have an earth or connection issue, if the voltage stays high/ doesn't change then the starter is not even trying and you can look to the key switch or solenoid connection for a fault.
Especially with modern cars/ ECUs (not a GSA thing, I know) I am finding that a connection quality and cleanliness as well as a good battery to begin with are really important. Gone are the days you can limp a car with weak battery/ charging for miles...
On that matter, 12.6v says the battery is not fully charged, more like half capacity at that. 12.8+v would be fully charged, perhaps check alternator output before heading away. I had to change the voltage regulator in my old Passat alternator a while ago as 12.9-13v charge voltage just wasn't doing the job yet the dash light was going out as usual. A rake about the shed for the salvaged alternator I'd been kicking for years, quick regulator swap and 14.2v charge voltage fixed it.
Good luck!
When I was a young guy of about 21/22 years I had a 1972 Mercedes-Benz 200 Diesel (W115). My friends also, because back then they were cheap, big and cool cars. Another guy sold his 200 D to me and a friend of mine for 50 (!) Deutsche Mark. Imagine that! Reason: serious starting problems. What was it? It was the loose and corroded mass cable from the starter motor. Refixed and: tadaaa - black smoke again. My friend kept this car, sold his one and we shared the 900 DM he got. That was good fun...
Experienced the similarly intermittent problem with an elderly 1.8L Alfa Giulietta - to fix it I installed a slave relay closer to the starter motor (operated by the the ignition start switch output) to deliver the high current capacity required by the starter motor solenoid engagement.
The common problem is that the ignition switch start contacts are light duty - with age/wear they lose their capacity to deliver the heavy current required to engage the starter solenoid.
It's a good idea to do this mod anyway as it will greatly prolong the life of the expensive (and often fragile) complex original switch mechanisms.
@Hubnut , Take the Sierra if the Sierra is taxed , mot’ed & insured
first thing i would do is do those battery terminals up tight. plus 12.6 volts is at the bottom of the amount needed to crank the engine and loose terminals wont help.
Wow what a cool looking dashboard
Be careful - multimeters have a high resistance thus draw no load so will show good across a high resistance joint plus a battery can show 12v+ off load when knackered
So, multimeter to the the "encourage to start" wire. Crank the engine, is there battery voltage? This will confirm the switch is OK. And test the solenoid low current
Jump cable, to the gearbox bell housing, the battery earth. Earth cable may not be able to carry the start current!
Also, you could short the two high current terminals on the solenoid, to check solenoid issues
I used to have a similar problem on an Astra I had. Starter motor would stick so the electrics weren’t powerful enough to turn it. The work around was to put it in 4th gear and push it a few inches then try again. Always started straight away after. No idea why really. Got another couple years out of that starter though 😂
Engine earth strap? Put a jump lead from the engine to the body under fault conditions to check.
I had an identical issue with a hire car. Turned out to be a failing internal connection in the battery. It would work fine when running but starting was a lottery.
when mrs hubnut yturned the key I noticed the lights where going dim
Hi Ian at least you had Mrs Hubnut helping you out but she did get it going😎👍🏴🏴🔧
Loose battery terminals can do this. Clean and test from the battery down to the starter, then tighten.
You need to measure voltage drop while pulling current. Since some of the dashlights go dim when trying to run starter there is massive voltage drop. Try battery negative to engine and then battery possitive to startermotor solenoid possitive input and solenoid positive output.
I’m not familiar with gsa’s but I would jump the starter solenoid connections with a well insulated screwdriver. If it starts no problem it could be the solenoid or the ignition switch. No start then starter or battery. Halfrauds do free battery tests, then starter is all that’s left. If starter and battery ok, apply 12v to starter solenoid direct from battery to solenoid small wire, if it starts then it’s ignition switch, if not suspect solenoid.
Another great tinkering video Ian and Carly, guessing the Berlingo may be taking the trip to Holland?
It is probably a stuck Bendix, next time put it in 4th gear and rock it back and forth till the Bendix comes back off the starter ring.. it's common on older cars.. hope this helps.
High resistance on battery or engine earth lead, will look fine on multi meter but break down on high current like starting.
Well at least you have a Berlingo for Netherlands backup backup.
All those loose connections are giving a voltage drop at high crank current so there resistance is a grater issue at crank current
Hi Ian, the joys of motoring all ways something going Wong, all the best to you all,
Did you try turning the engine a little on the starter handle, and then using the electric starter? We had a similar symptom on an old Metro. Put it into first gear, move the car a foot or so, stick it into Neutral and then try starting. It worked every time. That was caused by a dead spot on the starter motor commutator.
Citroen. I tried replacing the passenger window mechanism on my van after it fell out. All the manuals and online advice told me to undo four bolts. No. They were rivets. #BecauseFrench
So if the swith sounds like a constipated crow it could be a problem 🤔 I would say the solenoid or ignition switch it faulty. You can get quick release battery terminals. There used on caravan leisure batteries. Loose terminals will not help at all.
Amps Volts and Ohms.
You need some Amps flowing to conclusively test a battery or /and connections.
Else it's like trying to detect a leek in an already deflated tire.
Monitor the battery voltage directly on battery terminals and then on Battery connectors whilst trying to crank engine or just with the headlights on full.
The voltage will drop to 10V whilst cranking even with a good battery and connections, Near Zero with poor battery or connections.
With headlights on and a poor battery the voltage will quickly dive bellow 11v
Again to test earthing connections switch lots of stuff on including ignition and test between battery negative terminal post ( not clamp terminal ) and engine then car body, you should see no more than about 0.2 V if all is well.
Get the choke cable adjusted. No it won't help with the electrics but should help with the cold starts. Check the small wire to the starter solenoid to see if the spade terminal is good. I think you called it the encourager. Put a serrated lock washer on the main terminal.
I would test that 12v is present at the starter motor exciter wire when the ignition switch is turned to the start position. If there is 12 present, your pretty much sure the starter motor is knackered.
I like your Sierras. Good video material there.
The joys of Shitroen ownership !
Impressed you can start a 4 cylinder with the starting handle and a least Citroën handily provided one because French 👍😀😊
was about to say you're looking... "contented"!!!
Can I suggest, maybe the starter solenoid is knackered.
Thankyou for sharing with us.
Testing with a multimeter is a waste of time. Check with a substituted load I.e. a bulb. A headlamp bulb should give you about 4.5 amps. Definitely a dodgy earth strap or power lead. TIGHTEN The battery terminals!
You can also do a voltage drop test.
Leaving battery terminals loose is asking for trouble.
A loose battery terminal will give readings on a multimeter, allow the radio to work and such like but it will NOT start the car.
You want to be watching the voltage as you try various things (ignition on, crank, etc'). You can get a rough idea of current draw from the voltage drop you see, hence whether current is flowing as expected (or not)
Since the exhaust is starting to go, it's got to be worth getting a stainless replacement made up. She is a keeper after all.
You have got to look for this fault under load conditions. Put the meter across the battery first and start the car. If the voltage holds up then the bad connection is associated with the starter solenoid or beyond. Move the meter to other parts of the circuit, start the car and when you find the voltage dropping you have found your bad connection.
Starter motor. Most definitely, whip it out and get it repaired or swapped and you'll be good to go. Did you try the screwdriver across the terminals of the starter? I had a dodgy starter and it would randomly not work and sometimes work fine, second hand one did the trick.
A very knackers starter or a battery breaks down when changing
Probably alldown to a bad earth connection. Testing with a multimeter doesn't give a true picture because the meter is very very low current ( milliamps) which could pass through a dodgy connection but trying to shove a load of scores of amps through the connection and it just wont go. Thouroughly check all the power and earth straps, engine and body as they all need to be clean and tight. The fact that all the dash lights dim when you try to start also points to a bad connection.
The ignition switch is not switching the full current therefore there is relay being switched.
Worth takin it to ur garage to get checked out . Deffo seems like a starter issue with itself . Shorting out insinde i may think . Id tighten up ur battery connection thats the worst thing havin them slack . I was allways told keep them tight . . Hope u get giselle sorted out . Beacause french . Lol . I now own an 09 reg renault modus grand diesel . With the dci engine in it . Great car . I think.
Either the electrical part of the ignition is burning in or the starter motor commutator is dirty and won't work if it's standing still in the dirtiest place.
Maybe Foxanne is an option to drive to the Netherlands.
another great video has always Ian and miss hubnut and hublets and hubmutts 👍
Dodgy battery, loose connections, Ignition switch. Tight battery connections are critical on some stuff (D2's too!) Try jump leads from another battery next time.
Having the same issue at the moment on my 309GTI
Another trip in Elly to Europe with a new engine, that sounds nice…😉😘😘😘😘 Traveling in the GSA would be very interesting. 👏 🇫🇷👏
Miss Hubnut makes every video better, she’s great!
If she can stay running then no problem. Hand starting her isn't too difficult. I believe your problem probably is the starter's solenoid. Keeps doing shame stupidities on my Datsun 120Y. Sometimes the starter doesn't engage and sometimes it doesn't disengage
I'm now trying to find out what the last ever Citroen was, that had the rolling drum instruments. I like the ones on this GSA very much.
Mk1 BX, which was phased out in 1986 I think.
Oh mate, I know the feeling. I have a wheel bearing failing... It never ends!!!
Try whacking the starter motor with blunt end of a hammer (handle) as key is being turned. I'd start with a freshly charged battery and properly tightened terminals however....
You would have to check the voltage when you are actually cranking the engine to know where the voltage is dropped. That is not that easy but can be done with two people
Exactly what I was going to comment. Likely a battery on the way out.
Bad battery!!! Showing good voltage, but can’t give the “power” in Amps - thus the dash lights dimmed when key turned. Try new battery and tight connections! Good luck!
I had a similar problem went through a few batteries before I realised quite by accident the lead to the starter motor was loose on the starter motor, when you turn the ignition to turn the starter motor on the car automatically cuts the power to the rest of the car and sends it to the starter motor so it looks like your battery is gone when it hasn’t
Try some resistance tests ie battery-clamp to post, I have had this from loose connections in the past, as others have said too. Good to see some tinkering though.
Great videos..
Great as usual..... Just a thought think you should start at the beginning and tighten the battery terminal up they should be clean and tight no doubt about it then trace connections from there, I have no doubt you know what your doing looks fun but tighten it up,, oh and move that spear wheel its a trip hazard lol great films keep em coming 👍👍👍
Could be the starter solenoid but first I'd check for voltage drop to the starter motor to rule out a bad cable causing high resistance. 😊
Time travelling GSA. Miss Hubnut tries to start it, clock says 11 o'clock, a while later she's started on the crank and it's 10 o'clock
I see a large sign on the dash saying “STOP “. But it’s a French car so it should say ARRETE, our?
As others have said, it's a good idea to clean and properly tighten the battery terminals, otherwise you are pi**ing in the wind trying to fault find!!😀