Discovery about Book Embedding of Graphs - Numberphile

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 230

  • @ericvilas
    @ericvilas ปีที่แล้ว +334

    it's really fascinating how similar this feels to the 4-color theorem: you have a planar graph that can be categorized into parts that can behave in two different ways depending on the number of parts (either you need x parts or you need fewer than/more than x parts to fully categorize it) and proving the case for x=3 and x=5 was relatively straightforward but it took a lot of extra time to prove x=4

    • @iveharzing
      @iveharzing ปีที่แล้ว +26

      I wonder how similar these problems are, they're obviously not the same problem, otherwise they'd have a solution to this book problem way earlier, but that 4-color theorem can be reduced to a graph where all the nodes are the areas and the edges are the borders with other areas.

    • @FerdinandGrunenwald
      @FerdinandGrunenwald ปีที่แล้ว +36

      II totally agree with that. Also, there is more suspiscious evidence that hints at some kind of connection between these two problems. For example Toshiki Endo was able to show that any toroidal graph can be embedded in at most 7 pages. Interesting side note, any toroidal graph can be colored with 7 colors. furthermore Toshiki endo points that the upper bounds on the book thickness of a graph and the chromatic number are asymptotically equivalent. They point this out in this paper if you wan to read more about it:
      Endo Toshiki. The pagenumber of toroidal graphs is at most seven. Discrete Mathematics, 175:87-96,
      1997.

    • @fuzbuzz00
      @fuzbuzz00 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I was thinking the same thing. Especially when James introduced the restriction that the edges could not cross and that there were no phantom loops (i.e. maximum number of crossings) it reminded me of the reduction of the 4-color map theorem into the building blocks of map graphs, and how it was impossible to have a 2-d map graph with only points with 6 connections or higher.
      My instinct tells me there's a connection there, but I have no idea where to even begin with proving that

    • @NoLongerBreathedIn
      @NoLongerBreathedIn ปีที่แล้ว +2

      No, with 4ct the question was "5 necessary?" (no) and with this it's "4 necessary?" (yes).

    • @wegogiant
      @wegogiant ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yep, I was gonna mention it myself but first comment I see is this one

  • @Axacqk
    @Axacqk ปีที่แล้ว +106

    It's not every day that an explicit solution to a graph problem is found that can be printed on less than all the paper in the universe, one vertex per proton.

    • @MarkusAldawn
      @MarkusAldawn ปีที่แล้ว +18

      That's because the focus of the work was on keeping page count down- they must have applied it to the proof as well as the pudding!

    • @reith6073
      @reith6073 ปีที่แล้ว

      Honestly it is refreshing to not have 24 books on a book of a graph

  • @taygrew89
    @taygrew89 ปีที่แล้ว +78

    I just find it how mind blowing life seems come full circle(-ish). I started watching this channel back in early middle school and Dr Grime was one of the first people on this channel that really stuck with me, and now i'm only a couple semesters away from graduating with my undergrad in Math. I loved growing up with this channel

    • @numberphile
      @numberphile  ปีที่แล้ว +18

      You’re welcome. What a great message.

    • @GoldenAgeMath
      @GoldenAgeMath ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@numberphile I'll add my own story. I started watching in middle school too--I specifically remember recreating the argument that 100% of all integers contain the digit 3 for my mom. This fall I'll start a PhD in mathematics!

  • @PureZOOKS
    @PureZOOKS ปีที่แล้ว +186

    Dr Grime absolutely my favourite regular on this channel.
    He knows how to explain things so well that a kid can understand it, and he knows how to scale explanations from the basics up until the higher level stuff.
    Also, his awkward and enthusiastic demeanour reassures me that he is a real mathematician and a nerd.

    • @sekrasoft
      @sekrasoft ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I agree. His face on a preview makes me click much faster.

    • @IceMetalPunk
      @IceMetalPunk ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I mean, but then you have people like Tom Crawford who is not awkward at all, and looks nothing like a stereotypical nerd... yet absolutely is 😂

    • @thenoobalmighty8790
      @thenoobalmighty8790 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah old Grimey is pretty cool 😅

  • @typha
    @typha ปีที่แล้ว +44

    I did a project in college specifically about looking at books of knots, every knot can be done with 3 pages (and apart from the unknot they all need 3 pages) so they're a little boring with that respect, but the proof of this is rather simple, and then from there you can give each arc it's own page and that's the arc representation of a knot, and then there's a pretty simple proof of Alexander's theorem using that representation. Just fun stuff.

    • @adamcetinkent
      @adamcetinkent ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I thought that Alexander's theorem of knots was chopping them with a sword?

    • @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721
      @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 ปีที่แล้ว

      I thought that books of knots were manuals for Boy Scouts.

    • @akuwardmoments
      @akuwardmoments ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@adamcetinkent hah, I see what you did there

  • @beefchicken
    @beefchicken ปีที่แล้ว +27

    I’m Canadian, but my parents are from northern England. One particular room in my childhood home had two cupboards, one that contained boots, winter jackets, and mittens. That was the “boot cupboard”. The other cupboard in this room was where we kept our books. That was the “book cupboard”. It was a source of constant confusion.

    • @richardbloemenkamp8532
      @richardbloemenkamp8532 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Great story, it sounds like a perfect firtst page for a book for children.

    • @AdamFahn
      @AdamFahn ปีที่แล้ว +2

      For children wearing boots and reading books.

    • @CharFred-vr1ti
      @CharFred-vr1ti ปีที่แล้ว +1

      They're called shelves (made of boards) and enclosed they're called cabinets. A "cupboard" is a series of shelves that hold cups. Also, maybe it was confusing to you all because English people bastardize pronunciation between boots and books? They already bastardize the meaning of cupboards.

    • @dingbatty4314
      @dingbatty4314 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@CharFred-vr1ti Imagine the words 'boots' and 'books' pronounced in a Northern English accent - like Manc or Lanc in general. All will then be clear.

  • @TheMrJHolden
    @TheMrJHolden ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Brady's graphics are the genius of numberphile videos! His interviews are amazing and the knowledge he shares needs to go further. singingbanana needs more sunshine.

  • @jasonsteverson4609
    @jasonsteverson4609 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I love this! Reminds me of the early Numberphile videos. I'm far from a mathematician, but in this instance, simplicity with everyday understanding makes for a great video that really appeals to a dummie like me. And, James is the best at this stuff. What a great teacher. Thanks for this video, Brady!

  • @minamagdy4126
    @minamagdy4126 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Fun fact: a tree can always be done in only one page. Pick a root, and place it on the leftmost point. Afterwards, place all the points of the graph in a depth-first listing, and connect all points. Every subtree will be all together, recursively listed without intersections in the single page.

  • @brianbouchard1899
    @brianbouchard1899 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    That was the most beautiful graph I’ve ever seen. What a reveal!

  • @AnHebrewChild
    @AnHebrewChild ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great graphics Mr Grime! This channel has only gotten better.

  • @shufflecat3334
    @shufflecat3334 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In this video I learned something about graph theory, and unlearned how I said the word book. Balanced, as all things should be.

  • @jebus456
    @jebus456 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    yo i've actually drawn a similar number line by hand before! glad to know i wasn't the only one that had the idea of doing that lol

  • @bertblankenstein3738
    @bertblankenstein3738 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Instantly thinking about the infamous problem where the points define electricity, water, and gas, and each of the homes need to be connected to each one, without crossing (on a regular sheet of paper).

    • @rmsgrey
      @rmsgrey ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yeah, K5 (the complete pentagram - the complete graph on 5 vertices) and K3,3 (the utilities graph, or the complete bipartite graph on two sets of three vertices) are famously the two fundamental non-planar graphs - every non-planar graph has one or both of those two as a "minor" - a minor of a graph is any graph that can be formed by taking a subgraph (some of the vertices and edges, including all the ends of the edges) and then contracting edges (so the two vertices at the ends of an edge merge, with any vertex connected by an edge to either of the old vertices having an edge to the new vertex).

  • @jj.wahlberg
    @jj.wahlberg ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I am a simple girl. I see James, I click.

  • @General12th
    @General12th ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Dr. Grime! Hi Brady!
    This was really nicely explained. What an interesting problem! It's great to see someone found a solution once and for all.

  • @dashmore24
    @dashmore24 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Freeze the video at 7:46 and check out those eye popping numbers on the screen on the wall! 4000+ videos and 1.3 billion views. Way to go Brady and team!

  • @Thejosiphas
    @Thejosiphas ปีที่แล้ว

    haven't watched this channel in many years and i am relieved to see that james grimes is still very handsome

  • @tombaker8219
    @tombaker8219 ปีที่แล้ว

    Canteieve ive been watching this guy for 10 years

  • @alo1236546
    @alo1236546 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love to see the planar graph expressed on a sphere

    • @michaeldamolsen
      @michaeldamolsen ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @7:55 If you consider the points B & A to be the north and south poles, then the points t0-t7 will be on the equator. The tighter "blocks" of points can be stretched out along the north-south direction independently. Not sure if that helps you form a mental image or not, different brains visualize in different ways.

  • @vincenzopisano0912
    @vincenzopisano0912 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    why does no planar graph need 5 pages? has anything to do with the 4 color map theorem?

    • @drdca8263
      @drdca8263 ปีที่แล้ว

      Idea for a possible way the two could be related: (actually this doesn’t work. Posting anyway.)
      Take a planar graph , embedded in the plane in some way. Thicken the edges of the graph, making these edges the nodes of a new graph, and have them be connected if they are neighboring (as in, if they share a vertex, *and* are adjacent in the order they make around the vertex)
      The result should still be planar.
      4-color these new vertices (which, recall, are the original edges).
      Assign ones with different colors to different pages.
      ... this construction doesn’t work because it doesn’t have the pages/leaves meet on one line.
      So yeah nvm.

    • @bluerizlagirl
      @bluerizlagirl ปีที่แล้ว

      That's the sort of thing mathematicians must be asking .....
      What if you started with a 3-colour map, and did some sort of transformation to end up with a graph that needed a 3-page book?

  • @TheNameOfJesus
    @TheNameOfJesus ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So the image at 7:47 is one of the things we would send to alien civilizations to prove our intelligence and worthiness to avoid getting destroyed.

  • @alexismichel5431
    @alexismichel5431 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    This reminds me a lot of PCB designing... how many layers of copper do you need for manifacturing the connections you need... don't know if it is exactly the same problem but they definetly seem similar...

    • @bluerizlagirl
      @bluerizlagirl ปีที่แล้ว

      With PCBs, you have some additional physical constraints; a via (through connection) connecting any two layers requires a hole that must go through all the layers, and this adds a space requirement which in turn imposes a restriction on the total number of layer changes available.

  • @ggrocks
    @ggrocks ปีที่แล้ว

    It's a good day when James is on numberphile 😁

  • @aikumaDK
    @aikumaDK ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Am I seeing right, the Goldner-Hararay Graph (6:22) looks embedded multiple times in the new 4-page graph (8:08) ?

    • @joeshmoe4207
      @joeshmoe4207 ปีที่แล้ว

      It’s a version on a theme, it probably has that issue in each of those sub components that you can’t add loops by using the same kind of prevention techniques the GH graph uses.

    • @joeshmoe4207
      @joeshmoe4207 ปีที่แล้ว

      Looking at the original paper, they talk about the sub structures as “gadgets” which cannot be embedded in three pages under specific circumstances. if you wanna look at the paper it’s in the description of the video.

  • @ChrisBreederveld
    @ChrisBreederveld ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the new video, math will remain in our hearts ❤

  • @macronencer
    @macronencer ปีที่แล้ว +1

    7:58 Someone NEEDS to make a tee shirt with this on it!

  • @andrewlong462
    @andrewlong462 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can we get that final heart graph on some merch?

  • @vick229
    @vick229 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    James at it again

  • @chaitanyalodha3948
    @chaitanyalodha3948 ปีที่แล้ว

    That graph was sooooooo nice!!! ❤

  • @curtiswfranks
    @curtiswfranks ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I want prints of these. They are so beautiful.

  • @johnchessant3012
    @johnchessant3012 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Very interesting!

  • @BusStopWilly
    @BusStopWilly ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm sure I recently saw a video about inter-referencing in the bible and the graph looked exactly like this...!

  • @JxH
    @JxH ปีที่แล้ว

    0:59 "...Southern [UK] accent..." On the radio, the BBC Book Club used to sound like 'BBC Bik Kleb', which I found entertaining.

  • @cykkm
    @cykkm ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Is this a minimal planar graph requiring 4 pages, w.r.t. some sensible measure (average degree seems fitting), or just _a_ counterexample?

  • @kennethkatz6782
    @kennethkatz6782 ปีที่แล้ว

    We got numbers at 10^404 and 10^2135 that are just like 5040, but more firm (if you are stunned at the amount). Infinity is sickening and others have no regard for actual variations in just one number with 404 digits in base 10. Fun. Sine wave is connector of circle and triangle in 2D. I am ahead of the quantum computer!

  • @forthrightgambitia1032
    @forthrightgambitia1032 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Does anyone know where a proof can be found for the complete graph/page theorem? I.e. that any complete graph needs ceiling(n/2) pages?

    • @TheRocreex
      @TheRocreex ปีที่แล้ว

      I would go so far as to say it isn't actually true: the complete graph with 3 nodes surely fits on one page?

    • @forthrightgambitia1032
      @forthrightgambitia1032 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TheRocreex I looked at the wiki article for book embeddings and it clarified that the result holds for n >= 4

  • @DanielAbad1
    @DanielAbad1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video!! I have an idea for a numberphile espisode that super cool. How the design of a tachymeter dial works regardless of unit, all from a mathematical point of view.

  • @Irades
    @Irades ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you ❤

  • @robinbrowne5419
    @robinbrowne5419 ปีที่แล้ว

    It looks like a map of the Tralfamadorian Underground, where you travel from station to station through hyper-space.

  • @DemoniteBL
    @DemoniteBL ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder if something like this is also being researched but with 3-dimensional graphs and 4-dimensional books.

  • @CatherineJessicaNatof
    @CatherineJessicaNatof ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I would like to ask this question: Why is 3 not connected to 1? Should there not be a phantom loop connecting 3 and 1 on a second page? Or is that to distinguish crossed paths?

    • @Idran
      @Idran ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The idea is that if you can create a "phantom loop" that passes through every vertex, you can use the method of generating a book graph for a planar graph that has a loop and just remove the extra edges afterwards. So all you need to do is add enough edges (without crossing any existing edges) to make a continuous path that goes through every vertex exactly once and comes back to the start, use that method, and remove the edges you added.
      The tricky part then comes up with planar graphs where it's impossible to do that.

    • @CatherineJessicaNatof
      @CatherineJessicaNatof ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Idran Thanks

  • @klaasbil8459
    @klaasbil8459 ปีที่แล้ว

    I may be wrong, but for symmetry reasons I presume there is one line missing in the graph at 8:00, i.e. from point t2 to about 10 o'clock

    • @danielyuan9862
      @danielyuan9862 ปีที่แล้ว

      Perhaps, but maybe it wasn't even needed.

    • @michaeldamolsen
      @michaeldamolsen ปีที่แล้ว

      Curiously, the graph in the linked article (see description) shows the same kind of graph with one less cluster (t0-t6 rather than t0-t7), but that graph is also missing 1 line from a symmetry perspective. So it actually may be required.

  • @DarkSkay
    @DarkSkay ปีที่แล้ว

    Let's say you represent a graph as a table with 0 for no connection and 1 for a connection between vertices, then read out the entire table as one single number. Do the resulting numbers have an interesting relationship to structure, type and properties of the graphs they were derived from?

    • @hampusnyberg6583
      @hampusnyberg6583 ปีที่แล้ว

      The table you are talking about is called the adjacency matrix. I don't know what you mean by reading out the table as a single value. Summing them would simply give you twice the number of edges. However, how the eigen values and eigen vectors relate to the graph is a whole field called spectral graph theory

    • @DarkSkay
      @DarkSkay ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@hampusnyberg6583 Yes. Quote Wikipedia: "For a simple graph with vertex set U = {u1, …, un}, the adjacency matrix is a square n × n matrix A such that its element Aij is one when there is an edge from vertex ui to vertex uj, and zero when there is no edge."
      With "read out the entire table as one single number" I meat forming a binary number by concatenating zeros and ones contained in A in a certain order. For example: r = A11 || A12 || A13 || .... || Ann
      Then the question, if r is "interesting" in a very broad sense. Example: if r is prime, does this property relate to properties of the corresponding graph?

  • @lucidmoses
    @lucidmoses ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If your doing an Extra videos on this, maybe you could give a couple of examples where books are useful.

    • @Idran
      @Idran ปีที่แล้ว +1

      there's no guarantee there are any applications yet
      in pure mathematics, the research comes first, and application comes later (if ever)
      number theory was for ages thought to be useful only as an intellectual fascination (and was even jokingly lauded by at least one pure mathematician for that) until people started studying methods of cryptography and realized it was perfect for that

  • @venkatreddy392
    @venkatreddy392 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Loved it by heart❤

  • @4jonah
    @4jonah ปีที่แล้ว +2

    this untangling...is it related to knot theory?

  • @andyrobertshaw9120
    @andyrobertshaw9120 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’m assuming the Goldner-Harary graph was partially named after Frank Harary, who I had the pleasure of meeting in his latter days.
    The special graphs you mentioned near the end each had nearly 3 times as many adages as vertices, so must have an average vertex degree of nearly 6.
    Was a bit confused at the start around what is allowed on a book page. I’m assuming that we cannot have edges both inside and outside a Hamiltonian cycle, hence why we need 3 pages for a K5 graph.

    • @andyrobertshaw9120
      @andyrobertshaw9120 ปีที่แล้ว

      On a more flippant note, I don’t think the Spirograph was invented or so called with graph theoretical graphs in mind!

    • @beeble2003
      @beeble2003 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Each page is a planar graph (i.e., no edges crossing) with all the edges in the half-plane whose boundary is the row of vertices.

  • @MidwestWind
    @MidwestWind ปีที่แล้ว

    You guys are still at it after all these years. Cheers 🥹🍻

  • @Cid2065
    @Cid2065 ปีที่แล้ว

    I adore this.

  • @harold2718
    @harold2718 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Once again the proof involved a SAT solver, which just keeps happening again and again with these breakthroughs (the recent 1-tile thing too), and yet SAT solvers still seem to be underused and not widely known about

  • @helvio89
    @helvio89 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does anybody know why is there a ladder in a wall? It is there since forever, is it someone of decoration?

  • @noblesleem1077
    @noblesleem1077 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dude's always with the deep stuff

    • @noblesleem1077
      @noblesleem1077 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jim Grime

    • @noblesleem1077
      @noblesleem1077 ปีที่แล้ว

      I imagine how much info. Fast Fouriers would dig up

  • @zakariaaboumaryam4228
    @zakariaaboumaryam4228 ปีที่แล้ว

    How can the one publish the prime number Formula at a science magazine ?

  • @JavSusLar
    @JavSusLar ปีที่แล้ว

    7:53 I miss one line from B to the point between t0 and t1. Is it really missing or is the graph really like this?

    • @joeshmoe4207
      @joeshmoe4207 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think it’s a mistake in the video. The original paper has that line shown in the drawing.

  • @isaiahcampbell370
    @isaiahcampbell370 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That graph needs to be on a t-shirt.

  • @tadeogalvan565
    @tadeogalvan565 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Why is it that no graph needs a 5 page book? how do u prove that?

    • @Axacqk
      @Axacqk ปีที่แล้ว +2

      No edge-maximal planar graph. Full graphs can require any number n of pages, and you only need 2n vertices - this is said in the video.

  • @stapler942
    @stapler942 ปีที่แล้ว

    That pronunciation of "book" that Grime does reminds me of the character of Paul's grandfather in A Hard Day's Night. 😝

    • @stapler942
      @stapler942 ปีที่แล้ว

      (Also, the way Paul McCartney sings the "little white book" line in "Lovely Rita")

  • @DVVVDM
    @DVVVDM ปีที่แล้ว

    The first time I saw this type of graph was when someone showed me all the cross-references between the 66 books of the Bible. It was amazing how full that was. Now I can’t help but wonder, how many pages would it take to untangle that one? 📖

    • @godfreypigott
      @godfreypigott ปีที่แล้ว +2

      First task is to untangle all the inconsistencies of the bible.

  • @Simons_Valere
    @Simons_Valere ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Why can there be no one with 5 pages?

  • @alexandergoldthorpe4585
    @alexandergoldthorpe4585 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good video 👍

  • @__christopher__
    @__christopher__ ปีที่แล้ว

    I must be missing something, because I can't confirm rhe complete graph formula.
    Let's start with just one node. According to the formula, you'd need 1 page. But the node sits on the spine, by definition, and there are no edges which would need any pages. So I'd say it' neds zero pages. Similarly for n=2, there the complete path consists of two nodes connected by an edge. The nodes sit on the spine, by definition, and the edge also can be drawn along the spine, so again, zero pages.
    But then, maybe books are defined to always have at least one page. Well, then let's look at n=3, which according to the formula should need 2 pages. But the complete graph in this case is just a cycle, exactly like the one in the first one-page example, just with one node less. So for n=3 you should actually only need 1 page.
    For 4 and 5 nodes, the formula does give the correct number of pages, and beyond I didn't check. But for n up to 3, I don't think the formula is right.

  • @kbsanders
    @kbsanders 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    These remind me of Simon Tatham's Untangle puzzle game you can play online.

  • @HenriFaust
    @HenriFaust ปีที่แล้ว

    Could this be related to the four color theorem?

  • @dewaard3301
    @dewaard3301 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'd have expected the 4th page to contain just one edge, like the straw that broke the camel's back.

  • @JavierSalcedoC
    @JavierSalcedoC ปีที่แล้ว

    What about graphing the points in the surface of a sphere? Would it change things?

    • @michaeldamolsen
      @michaeldamolsen ปีที่แล้ว

      No. Imagine a sphere made of rubber. You can poke a single hole and stretch that to become the entire perimeter of a flat sheet of paper (think of stretching the edge of an uninflated balloon until it is a flat rubber sheet.) If you were on a torus, things would be different though.
      Edit: I forgot to mention the important part, that the hole you poke in the surface can always be placed between lines/points. So no lines will cross the resulting edge of the flattened map.

  • @certainlynotthebestpianist5638
    @certainlynotthebestpianist5638 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is it the smallest 4-page planar graph? Or can there exist ones with fewer vertices?

  • @MarkusDarkess
    @MarkusDarkess ปีที่แล้ว

    You didn't know my personal life. I was just trying to handle things and try to help my mom. I never told anyone. I been stressing losing my mom before I knew it. I haven't done anything
    Or asked anyone for help. I am noting sueing. This was my stress relieving from doing all the responsibility in my house. I never asked anyone's help

  • @Dsschuh
    @Dsschuh ปีที่แล้ว

    When stretching the two crossing lines outside the pentagram, can that be considered a form of topological stretching?

    • @SilverLining1
      @SilverLining1 ปีที่แล้ว

      Depends. It's called an ambient isotopy in which, if you consider the graph to be embedded in into 3D space (or other sufficient spaces), then you can continually deform not just the two edges in the first picture but the space surrounding them so that the image of the transformation is the second picture. However, if you are considering planar isotopy then you must work with a projection of your graph on the plane and you can only stretch the plane without pulling edges out of it. In this isotopy, pulling the two edges in the first picture through the other edges in the way is not legal since you're tearing the plane around them when you do that. In short, it's only a topology preserving operation, or topological stretching as you put it, if imagine the graph as being embedded in 3D space or something similar.
      I worked on a paper that was concerned with such things. Here's a fun theorem that didn't make it into the paper: Consider a complete graph with 5 vertices in the shape of a pentagon, such as the graph we were discussing earlier. Furthermore, let us only consider the edges to be straight lines (this is called a linear embedding) and for it to be occupying the plane. Suppose you are told this graph was actually embedded in 3D space in some way that you don't know, leaving you to make guesses about how it looks in 3D based on this "shadow" of the graph. At each crossing you must mark one of the edges as being "on the top" from the perspective of the shadow (a graph with such markings is called a crossing diagram of said graph). Each choice makes a different prediction for what the embedding might look like, with some choices being impossible. Amazingly, there's exactly one crossing diagram up to planar isotopy! That is, just by stretching the plane, you can always make your prediction look like the "correct" one, or into any other legal crossing diagram of any 5 vertex graph with pentagonal shape (pulling a vertex into the quadrilateral formed by the other four vertices is not a planar isotopy, so that distinction must be made).

  • @pearceburns2787
    @pearceburns2787 ปีที่แล้ว

    Could pages be used to give a scale to the non-planarness on a graph? Im trying to cast my mind back to my Uni days and think how this could be used in knot theory 🤔

    • @rosiefay7283
      @rosiefay7283 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Certainly one of the stats of a graph is its book number. But we need to understand that a graph's book number can be as large as 4 (as we now know) and still be planar.
      As for a measure of how non-planar a non-planar graph is, there are numerous variants of crossing-number. Marcus Schaefer wrote a paper which was a survey of some of them --- he listed dozens!

  • @karniumsden7883
    @karniumsden7883 ปีที่แล้ว

    this seems like an interesting way to conceptualize manipulating dimensions.

  • @codycast
    @codycast ปีที่แล้ว

    2:29 “I created a 2 page book”.
    Don’t get why that requires two “pages” ?

    • @Giantcrabz
      @Giantcrabz หลายเดือนก่อน

      to prevent crossings

  • @lowellwynn2704
    @lowellwynn2704 ปีที่แล้ว

    I hope I am phrasing this right. How many different numbers yield a maximum of 4 pages for the book embedding of graphs? is it just one so far? Also, would doubling the number yield 4 pages as well?

    • @alexanderdobler9738
      @alexanderdobler9738 ปีที่แล้ว

      Take the graph from the video and add as many independent vertices as you want. That graph will also require 4 pages.

  • @tfh535
    @tfh535 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why can't the Goldner-Harary planar graph go from page 2 to page 1 through the gap between 6 & 8? Or is that what the third page is?

    • @danielyuan9862
      @danielyuan9862 ปีที่แล้ว

      A line can only be on one page.

  • @jonathan-._.-
    @jonathan-._.- ปีที่แล้ว +1

    why arent there any books with 5 pages ? surely more complex graphs will require more pages 🤔?

    • @danielyuan9862
      @danielyuan9862 ปีที่แล้ว

      These are specifically for planar graphs. Or graphs that can be drawn on a plane without any crossings (without the line restriction like a page)

  • @gmgunner
    @gmgunner ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm not a super math guy but, is this similar to the number of holes in a t-shirt or that bottle?

  • @therandomchannel8859
    @therandomchannel8859 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    we love 301

  • @skalmelid
    @skalmelid ปีที่แล้ว

    Homework until next week - is it the smallest graph that needs four pages to create a book.

  • @TheRealMjb2k
    @TheRealMjb2k ปีที่แล้ว

    So any planar graph can be represented as a book of at most 4 pages? Is that the theorem effectively?

  • @ftfk7869
    @ftfk7869 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm sure there is an application for this somewhere.. But where

  • @dakotaschuck
    @dakotaschuck ปีที่แล้ว

    Why is the spine not considered a page? It also contains information. Doesn't that mean it's actually 5 dimensions needed to embed the info?

  • @darthrainbows
    @darthrainbows ปีที่แล้ว

    Just curious, are there any known practical implications for the book size of a graph?

    • @MrSaemichlaus
      @MrSaemichlaus ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm very curious about that too.
      So far I can only think up a use case that involves an electric circuit being implemented on several prototyping boards that are hinged on one side just like a book for maintenance access, but that would only make sense if no jumping wires are allowed, which doesn't seem like a realistic constraint.
      The concept of a book graph seems very obvious, but abstracting the rules that define a book graph and then matching them to an equivalent problem is hard. In principle, the binding of the book being straight and the pages being planar seems irrelevant to the underlying logic. It's a two-dimensional problem which kind of leaks into the third dimension with every page connecting to all other pages through a single line representing the back of the book.

  • @NothingMaster
    @NothingMaster ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The crisscrosses could be avoided /eliminated in higher dimensions.

    • @rmsgrey
      @rmsgrey ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You can avoid the crossings even on a 2D surface that's more interesting than just a plane - for instance, you can get up to K7 on a torus

  • @evarlast
    @evarlast ปีที่แล้ว

    A network is a graph with named nodes. It would have been nice to defined this in the 1st 20 seconds instead of calling a graph a network. Not all graphs have named nodes so not all graphs are networks.

  • @--X-RAY--
    @--X-RAY-- ปีที่แล้ว

    Здравствуйте! Очень давно подписан на ваш канал, но смотрю ваши ролики с других каналов, переводящих их на русский. Английский я конечно знаю, но понимать терминологию очень сложно. У меня тут вопрос назрел, надеюсь вы его прочитаете: полый шар гомеоморфен шару или тору?

  • @rogerperkins
    @rogerperkins ปีที่แล้ว

    I notice the last 3 page book could be done in 2 pages if the green line can cross pages.

    • @michaeldamolsen
      @michaeldamolsen ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I think you refer to the graph @6:35 in the video. What you are really suggesting is adding a new point to the graph on the line between vertex 4 and vertex 10 (let's call the new vertex 12.) Placing vertex 12 between vertices 6 and 8, you can then draw a line from 4 to 12 bowing down under 6, and one from 12 to 10 bowing up above 8. This is a different graph with a different number of vertices, and illustrates why the problem is so difficult. Adding vertices can actually lower the number of pages required.
      (Note: each line in a bok can only arc upwards or downwards, not zig-zag through the chart.)

  • @1.4142
    @1.4142 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's beautiful

  • @lennih
    @lennih ปีที่แล้ว

    The brown paper has almost completely disappeared from these videos.

  • @unvergebeneid
    @unvergebeneid ปีที่แล้ว

    It took me a while to understand that the goal was to have the _most_ number of pages for a given graph, not the fewest.

    • @rosiefay7283
      @rosiefay7283 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      No, for any one graph, it's to have the fewest pages. The question is: what's the smallest number of pages which is enough for every planar graph.

    • @unvergebeneid
      @unvergebeneid ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@rosiefay7283 that's the question at the end but in the middle of the video, he talks about reordering the points so you get _more_ pages. But I agree, the video was much more confused than Brad's videos usually are.

    • @rmsgrey
      @rmsgrey ปีที่แล้ว

      @@unvergebeneid The bit in the middle is just to highlight that you can pick a bad order and increase the apparent book number that way, which means that finding the actual book number of a graph requires more than just finding the best arrangement of arcs for some particular ordering.

    • @danielyuan9862
      @danielyuan9862 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@unvergebeneid He reorders the points to show that you get a different result. But the entire time, he was aiming to minimize the number of pages. If he was trying to maximize it, then you would just have a single edge for every page.

  • @N.I.R.A.T.I.A.S.
    @N.I.R.A.T.I.A.S. ปีที่แล้ว

    If you're an Australian in the UK it's traditional to mock their accents

  • @-tsvk-
    @-tsvk- ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Unfortunate terminology conflict with the paper book analogy here... books have paper leafs that have text printed on their both sides, the two sides are numbered and are called pages.
    Here in this graph case a "page" is that what is called a "leaf" in the paper book.

    • @killerbee.13
      @killerbee.13 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Well that's a printing decision, you could print this with one 'page' on each page, but it'd be rather unreadable with transparency involved and with opaque leafs it'd be impossible to see the whole graph at once. Still, there are four 'layers of information' so to speak, which corresponds better to a page than to a leaf.

  • @Hamboarding
    @Hamboarding ปีที่แล้ว

    The Coca-Cola bottle contraption next to the religious corner 🌞👍🏻

  • @rosiefay7283
    @rosiefay7283 ปีที่แล้ว

    0:52 I don't know what I find more surprising --- that you wanted to say it again in a "Southern accent", or that when you tried, it was more Scouse than anything else.

  • @1.4142
    @1.4142 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would read a book about this.

  • @palpatinewasright
    @palpatinewasright ปีที่แล้ว

    wow.
    my new wallpaper

  • @rocykel
    @rocykel ปีที่แล้ว

    Is James from Lancashire?

  • @davidmurphy563
    @davidmurphy563 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    2:50 For this to be possible you need to sacrifice a goat.

  • @PunmasterSTP
    @PunmasterSTP 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Book embedding of graphs? More like “Bro, Numberphile is where it’s at!” 👍

  • @turboblazer
    @turboblazer ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think the natural question is "is there an infinite amount of them?"

    • @leodarkk
      @leodarkk ปีที่แล้ว +3

      You can just add a chain of length n to the graph and it will keep the property, so yes, there is an infinite amount of them.

  • @hugo73landry
    @hugo73landry ปีที่แล้ว

    4432 videos, hey? Impressive!