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Corsets were not torture devices to the average person though. Nobody would have worn them or got anything done if everyone was tight lacing. The whale bone used was soft and flexible like plastic zip ties; and eventually it would conform to the body the more it was broken in. Be wary of drawings and photos because they could be misleading. Subjects' waists in photos were able to be edited to look smaller than they actually were. I'm not an expert on topics, but I know this much
I'm not an expert myself but I listened to and read plenty of people who specialize in making of period clothing and corsets WERE COMFORTABLE AND SAFE, as long as they were well made and fitted to an individual size, laced correctly, not worn during pregnancy and worn over undergarments. Which was how all actual people living in the past wore them (perhaps with the exclusion of Marie Antoinette that one time while she was pregnant with one of her kids), and NOT HOW ACTORS STARRING IN POORLY RESEARCHED PERIOD DRAMAS WEAR THEM.
I’m so glad that people are calling out the corset misinformation however honestly I worry what else they get wrong that we aren’t becoming more aware of
@@CashelOConnolly because we came out with bras. The ones TODAY are the killers. The ones before were shaped and molded to each and every single woman. No two were the same. Each gently supported the breasts without harming the spine, shoulders, or ribs. If they were such killers, how did the human population keep going? Can’t claim it moves your organs and near murders you, and in the same breath dismiss the fact that women had to get pregnant, stay pregnant, give birth, and over again several times WHILE WEARING the corsets.
@@CashelOConnolly if you don’t have boobs, then of course you wouldn’t see the purpose of proper support 🥴 and the corsets helped alleviate the pain from carrying a human that leads to both spine pain, and extreme pelvic pain. Of course you see no issue with neither of those things, but you should know, we wear corsets now in pregnancy too to support and help with pain
I often wonder what other misinformation there is too. And how to combat it... I really don't know, except study to become an actual historian...In every subject...For the rest of our lives... 👀
I felt sorry for the boys being split up because my brother and I have always been together. My dad got in trouble for not taking care of us and we had to meet with a social worker and we discussed it between us and decided to lie so that we could stay together and so that we wouldn't be abused. They dropped the case much to our relief. I can feel very deeply for all these kids. Sounds like the boys each came into their own though.
What’s annoying about Bernadette and Karolina’s fans is that they think all corsets are perfect and amazing. There’s a reason women ceased wearing them, they did restrict movement. Many upper class ladies tight laced in order to be fashionable. That’s why the rational dress society was created in 1881 and really picked up steam in the Edwardian era.
Along with @Spicycat s comment I would also like to point out that tight lacing was a very rare thing to do, only a few "slaves of Fashion" would do it. I am a studied costume designer, I made some corsets for myself, after my measurements, and only After hours and hours they start to become uncomfortable. Also, I made corsets for Opera singers, and they surely would not be able to sing if their corsets would be restricting, let alone shifting organs. Also, the women seen with those infamous wasp waists needed to start tight lacing at a very young age, before they were fully grown, otherwise your bone structure would not allow such dramatic changes. So yes, it was a fashion ideal back then, but like today, only a minority would really try to live up to it. Saying corsets "often caused organs to shift" etc simply isnt true.
@@katyb2793 Bras and corsets are made in entirely different ways. There's in fact much less support in a bra than there is in a corset, and the band on a bra is much smaller, which means it puts more pressure on the area it's wrapped around.
@@foreverdead1248 I know haha. My point was those who say we're better off today without corsets forget that bras and heels aren't comfortable. (Heels aren't even healthy). I would never say a corset is more comfortable than no corset though, nor is a bra more comfortable than no bra, unless someone is well endowed.
@@katyb2793 Neither bras, nor heels, NOR corsets are healthy. It's cute that you like historical fashion, but women protested and stopped wearing corsets for a reason. And now during the pandemic, women are ceasing to wear bras and resolving not to put them back on when they return to "in-person" work, and Say good for them. All that stuff just weakens the cooper's ligaments. Our breasts are better off without, and certainly we don't need corsets restricting movement and breathing (yes, even without tight-lacing, they do limit how much air you can take in, just a fact that certain people will lie about to make corsets seem like just some harmless good fun).
I was fascinated by the dentistry section, as im a dentist. Old times dentistry always has had me curious. I was heartbroken by the way the brothers were treated because of their skin color. Edward had to have been an incredible student and a brilliant mind to be top of his class. Racism is 🗑 🚮.
louib716.... I watched the whole vid & didn't see where either brother was treated any different from any other race. So sad that people like you, have to make false claims about racism.
@@fabledfantasty7343 They claim racism so much, and never actually see any, so they make some up. 🤷🏻♀️ It makes no sense, cuz I thought they wanted to eradicate racism…. And it’s gone, so 🤦🏻♀️
Nice to see history focus on different classes and include personal accounts of people of colour who were more prevalent than most of us realize in victorian times, and industrial revolution. Thank you.
I can really recommend Tony's series about "The worst jobs in the world". There he really gets down and dirty to show us what the lowest class had to deal with on a day to day basis to make ends meet.
Actually a lot of Victorian and Edwardian corsets in museums weren't that small. My Maltese great great grandfather worked on ships and he was supposed to be on the titanic and later on the Lusitania but he was so hung over that he slept through and missed his jobs.
Why does no one mention that a chemise would likely have been worn under the corset. The first item a lady (or any women for that matter) would have put on would not be a corset. Not only would that have been terrifically uncomfortable, it would unnecessarily have soiled the corset.
@@kflo8634 Pretty incredible that he managed to get another job One shipwreck could happen to anyone I suppose, but at a certain point folks would surely think... maybe this dude's a jinx! LOL
Oh COME ON with ALL of the information on corsets nowadays can you PLEASE stop saying they all tightlaced and deformed themselves??? It’s factually not at all correct. For gods sake.
@@cindydufala7646 Large people wore them just the same. Corsets were made to measure to your body, much better than today where everything we own is off the rack and never quite fits, even the tailored items. It wasn't about being tiny or small framed, it was about the fashionable silhouette, and everyone then was the same size as now, more likely the very lower class was underfed and malnourished, but anyways. The reason that there are so many historical garments that we find that are so tiny is that not many people could wear them, so they never developed the same wear that would have destroyed them, they would have been kept in a back room or closet or attic for years and years, you wouldn't throw them away, you'd just wait until they were needed and for the very small and specific sizes, you really had no use for them.
The story of Edward and Walter, had me cheering and praising the their lives, but when Walter was killed in the first World War, i shed a tear ffor him and his brother, I love watching anything Thats presented by Tony Robinson, he's legendary for keeping anyone engaged enough to learn some History. OXO
Watching these types of videos really makes me feel better about going to work at my own job. Like yeah working in this call center sucks but at least I'm not a 10 year old in a coal factory.
@@tiffiebaebee It makes me grateful for union organizers. Some of whom took up arms to fight back against the bosses and their hired thugs, and many of whom were killed whether they picked up weapons or not. Without those union folks back in the day, we'd still have no benefits/no overtime etc, and possibly even still children in coal mines.
Tiny correction : he did not suffer because he was black. He suffered because he lived in a racist society. It is not the victim's fault they are marginalized: it is society's fault if it is marginalizing.
Saying that he suffered because he was black is not the same as saying that the suffering brought upon him was his fault. So you are correcting nothing; you are just fishing for likes by trying to be woke.
Arguing semantics distracts from the issue at hand. No one is saying racism is his fault, and you know. When someone says they’re miserable because they’re sick, do you tell them, “No, you’re miserable because you’re living with cancer”? We all know what’s meant, but congrats on changing the topic to semantics.
The corset thing wasn't even misinformation, those people are just ignorant and don't understand why women stopped wearing the damned things, they were left behind for a reason, yes, even without "tight-lacing", they make it hard to breathe and restrict movement, and yes, that 's-figure' was a dangerous beauty standard to hold women to, as many other beauty standards have been and continue to be. And as for the brothers, I was so sad that they were separated and kept waiting for a happy ending, but sadly there wasn't exactly on, bravo to Walter and Eddie for achieving all they they did in spite of the ignorance blocking their way. I just think it's so sad to separate siblings, I even think it's sad to do it to puppies and kittens when they get adopted out (though I understand entire litters are a bit much for people to take on), but ehen it's humans it's so much sadder! I hope that doesn't happen anymore.
@@venus_envy Women stopped wearing corsets because the style of underwear evolved and changed over time. The corset part in here is complete misinformation and just plain wrong. Women could move perfectly fine in corsets and breathe without issue. They were a support garment and supported both the bust and back which has been proven even in modern times to help those with back problems. Tight lacing was not common place. Women worked in corsets and participated in athletics without problems or restricted movement. The Prior Attire channel even has a video showing this
I was enjoying this one until they started spouting a lot of nonsense about corsetry; tight-lacing was NOT common, and reports of deformities being caused by wearing stays (which is the correct term, not corset) are sketchy at best. In fact, as stays were always made to fit the individual, not mass produced, they could actually have served as back support, not unlike the big ugly back support belts one sees stockers in retail stores wearing. Do some research before you start saying things in a damn documentary; people take you seriously. I sort of used to. Not so much now, though. What nonsense!
Wel in my hometown there was a huge factory called Royal Worcester Corset Company - Wikipedia The Royal Worcester Corset Company, was founded as The Worcester Skirt Company by David Hale Fanning in 1861 in Worcester, MA, My Great Grandmother lived during this era and wore cosets.
@@MISFITaddict what does this have to do with corsetry? Many, many historical sources actually show that men would routinely mock women for wearing corsets. They were created for women, to support their bodies and garments. Women generally enjoyed wearing their stays or corsets, otherwise their bodies would’ve hurt terribly!
I've said it once and I'll say it again. It must be overwhelmingly fascinating to live in a land where you still can access buildings and places and things that existed hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Here in the US stuff only goes back a few hundred years. Even what someone stupidly called "prehistoric" fish weirs in our rivers were created by native americans around 500 years ago. But just the quantity and magnitude of the old stuff in Europe blows me away.
Christel..... Your ignorance & your lack of education is showing! No "stuff" does NOT only go back a few hundred years. Do some research before you you make statements that make you sound like an absolute imbecile 😂.
@@fabledfantasty7343 hmm... you apparently don't know what I mean. The "stuff" I'm referring to is European settlement. American cities do not have buildings built thousands or even several hundreds of years ago. In fact, many of the buildings around us here in the US are from less than a mere 100 years ago. Compare that with being in Europe, where you can potentially be surrounded by actual ancient buildings. Sure you can visit ancient Native structures in the US. But no one is watching tv in their house built in the 1500s in America. Don't be a stupid ass please.
Tony has always had the capacity of waxing serious and hilarious at the tip of a hat. He knows when to play to the crowd, and when we want honesty. Yes, it's irritating to see the corset drama still continues; I rightly believe there were some who may have pushed the limits, but for the greater part of society, it's always the padding that lends the true shape and fit.
Those 2 brothers were amazing, great role models for all people of color and a valuable lesson that no one should judge someone's ability based on their skin color.
It goes to show that society back then was not so blinkered and anyone regardless of their upbringing in the metropolis could be successful. Both he and his brother seem to have done quite well. Despite the ignorance of the Bristol fans as the newspaper reported that Carl’s “tactics were absolutely beyond reproach, but he became the butt of the ignorant partisan”. Let’s not forget that Carl became a carpenter and his brother became a dentist. I am not saying they did not experience prejudice, but I am saying that perhaps they were also allowed opportunities that the vast majority of orphans never experienced. Edward even overcame prejudice and joined the middle classes. I would say both brothers overcome their humble origins and I say that without reference to their colour.
Had to turn it off when it become the diversity documentary, especially because you can see how far the entire society has fallen as a result of seeds like them being sown in the country.
@@deanwal1962 "could be successful" sure - but it was a lot harder for these individuals for no reason... the "allowed opportunities" you mention were the result of a few kind souls who showed respect and love for fellow humans regardless of color, and they weren't "allowed" to succeed by society, the brother conjured opportunities with hard work and relentless strength very few have!
@@boringNW Humans as species have never lived in more comfort, safety, luxury and opportunities than right of this moment ! your quite delusional ! stop reading daily news and touch real grass!
Just think: the corset persisted for not mere decades, but literally centuries. It’s almost like it was a supportive undergarment and the waist definition was mainly the job of padding and judicious use of altering photographic negatives.
This is not historically accurate. The corset did not go next to the skin and it did not form the shape. That was done with bum pads, hip pads, etc. Tsk, tsk, Absolute History, what else is inaccurate in your story?
While I love the documentations, please stop perpetuating the myth of the terrible corset. It was NOT generally uncomfortable and tight. At most the average women would reduce waist circumference by a very few inches. It all comes down to proportion. And there was a LOT of padding going on in addition to create4 the ilusuion of a very slim waist. While there was tight lacing it was not very common. It was actually already back then locked upon as bad for you and damaging. There is medical text mentioning the "women who endanger their heath by tight lacing" and stuff like that. Its like extremely high high heels today. Its known to be bad for you, but there is enough people doing it none the less.
It might have been nice if he'd asked John about that. Instead , he doesn't allow him a single word, and walks away with a "Cheers, John!" which I frankly found rather patronising.
Same here. American docus are almost always either so dry you'll die of dehydration and boredom watching them, or so over-the-top it's completely ridiculous. Several of the British ones find a better balance of accuracy and fun.
I joined the US Navy in the 90s and I was an engineer and I ran jet fuel-fired boilers at the bottom of the ship called "The Pit". It was extremely hot and the heat went up as the water temp went up. I'm not sure why they couldn't figure out how to feed a coal furnace without manpower or a bit less of it. I know how hot it is down in the pit and I can't imagine what those men went through.
I absolutely adore Tony Robinson and his ability to educate of the "regular & poor classes" with accuracy and humor without any disrespect. He's fabulous also that he willingly participates in any jobs regardless. Thanks Tony 😊.
Well, let's be brutally honest... Tony participates in awful jobs for perhaps an hour, and I imagine he's paid quite well for it. And he complains about it the whole time. ;) It's good fun and all, but it's sure not the same as having little to no other choice and doing it until you're either too old and/or battered to work at all or you just frickin' DIE lol (and yes, I know, I'm quite sure he's aware of that.)
How did 2 historians get corsetry wrong? They did not tightlace all the time. The garment was also cut and sewn in a way to get its shape. The boning gave it support, not its shape. The bones also were pliable enough with heat to eventually shape to the body. Otherwise, the maid couldn't have been able to do her job.
25:00 This kind of stuff is happening today in labor reform. "Raise the minimum wage? Well I won't pay it!" ~The Owner Class I wonder if we'll have a resurgence of mechanical things as energy conservation becomes more commonplace.
So disappointed at the corset trope. Especially coming from a History channel. Tight lacing was very rare and didn't really happen until steel boning became widely available, even then it was only really high fashion, not everyday wear. The 'S' bend corset was not very popular and the vast amount of women achieved a 'tiny' waist through the use of padding.
I was preparing to write a strongly worded comment about the real history of corsets, only to scroll down to the comments and see that many people have already beaten me to it! Thank you all for spreading the truth!
Up until about the mid-1950s, many of the school dental nurses used treadle drills and it was the effect of these on children who were not often offered xylocaine that led to the accolade of The Murder House for the clinic. My late father was a dental graduate, Otago 1954; in the late '70s he agreed to travel a lengthy pig of a road to a remote area school - one with pupils of all ages - to do the kids' dental work. There were no facilities and he had to take everything with him in the car, including a treadle drill. To shorten the story, he found he could work more efficiently by engaging the (willing!) assistance of a couple of burly lads from the rugby team who, once shown how to operate the treadle, could maintain uniform maximum speed, freeing dad to concentrate on the dentistry, which, with nervous children in the chair has its own unique problems without being thrown off balance by the treadle foot pumping away - true multi-tasking.
Great documentary. My nan was an Edwardian, born in May 1901. This was her world. She was of the poor working class. I still go and walk the streets where she grew up and think to myself "100 years ago my nan was xx age and doing...."
Love these types of videos but boy are they so wrong on corsets. It’s almost like they want women to think they’re bad. Been wearing a corset for years and I’ve never felt restricted or short of breath. Did a man write this script? lol
They need to update their corset section! We now know a LOT of the myths around tight laceing and deformation of ribcages aren't facts, but rather, male doctors desperately trying to prove women as vain and unable to care for themselves. I highly recommend quite a few historians here on TH-cam which will "bust" the myths propagated in this video
This is one of my fave channels. Highly recommended! It helps you learn in an engaging way. Plus, the hosts are always super great. I truly appreciate this type of programming. ❤
Some poor women were taken on a “shopping trip” by their mothers before their wedding, not knowing they were going to be tied in a dentists chair and have all their teeth forcibly removed🙀
...do you wánt to know what went into a 19th century working-class sausage? I think I'd be better off not knowing. :D But kinda hilarious indeed, I didn't notice he said it like that!
In a perfect world, organs and blood. But the truth was that before food safety laws, sausages were gross and quite literally made of ‘mystery meat’. You were lucky if it was all edible. Lots would have been made with inorganic ‘fillers’, poisonous chemicals, and/or (possibly) spoiled animal parts from (unhealthy) animals you wouldn’t normally want to eat.
Damn…all of these stories were sooo interesting. But silly me.. I thought we would get through the story of the orphaned brothers without veins of racism throughout . But duh 🙄 Fun fact.. one of my favorite dentists I ever had was a big part of establishing the AADA in the U.S. and was a peer of Dr. MLK. I feel some consolation in having experienced this man and knowing while watching this that at least dentistry got better.
Yes, as far as the monarchs go, but fashion and culturewise the years leading up to WWI are also included. Also his successor was a George but you wouldn't call that era Georgian, right?
Not so fun fact..some of the firemen on the Titanic refused to leave their posts, continuing to shovel and tend fire until flooded and drowned, so that the ship could maintain propulsion and operating systems. The lower class equivalent of the band, and the gallant male passengers. I really do wonder how people today would react to the instruction, “women and children first”. Children, I think would still get priority, but would and should women?
Someday people in the future will also make a documentary about the right things we do that are actually wrong/dangerous to us, such as mobile phones and school.
Im from the black country, west midlands and the bit where he is in the old high street is part of the black county living museum, where he explains about the chain making. However he says it was made in CHADLEY HEATH?? There is no chadley heath in the black country. He got it wrong, its called CRADLEY HEATH, west midlands! Just had to let people know what we are actually called as its a huge part of our history, the chains are even represented in our black country flag!
"The waists were unimaginably tiny!" *cuts to video of normal waisted women. Enough with the corset BS. They weren't sickeningly tight, and didn't cause deformity to the wearer (otherwise we'd have skeletal evidence, articles of the era, etc.). A ton of working class women could do hard work in a corset, and while somewhat restrictive, it offered back support, and also kept padding, underskirts and weight of other garments from digging into the hips. The "pigeon chest" of the era and small waist illusion was achieved with clever use of padding & lace in every area you can imagine. Also, whalebone wasn't the actual bone, it was baleen, the filter system in a whale's mouth. Bendy and sturdy, like the thin plastic or steel inserts we use for fancy clothes nowadays.
Yeah, no- it's a *pass* for me, the person who has to go to the anesthesia dentist _just_ for a teeth cleaning. 😂 I don't know why, but teeth are my trigger. And when I say trigger, I mean... like it's my "Nuke" button. 🤣
As usual, you’ve mucked up the history of corsets. The Edwardian shape did partially rely on corsets for overall structure, however, there was also quite a lot of padding involved to make the waist appear smaller without constricting the wearer. Corsets were almost always made to fit more or less comfortably. Whalebone was a common material, but it was surprisingly flexible, allowing for movement. Tightlacing, deformities, and other problems were the strong minority. This would be like a historian 100 years into the future pointing to today’s fashion models and saying, “Women in the early 20th century starved themselves and put their bodies through grueling exercise routines to meet the standard of an average woman.” You’re a history channel, stop perpetuating this nonsense.
Y'all are making it hard to trust you when you keep lying about corsets 😭 I love these documentaries but the way you make them out to be torture devices every women just agreed to wear is just wrong.
Robinson has no qualifications for presenting anything historical other than playing Baldrick. Big whoop. Give me an intelligent presenter who really knows their subject like Lucy Worsley any day, not "hilarious" infantile comments from someone just reading from a script.
I just cannot believe how people can make a decent documentary then fill it with these idiotic, and annoying micro animations which are so bad and unfunny it makes me want to turn this off
The lady with the dental apparatus looks just like my grandmother having her teeth straightened back in the 1910's. She was younger than the lady pictured, but the mouth apparatus was the same. She said it was torture.
The most remarkable thing I learned from this video and comments section is that apparently a whole lot of people today are still REALLY into corsets. Nothing wrong with that of course, I just found it interesting.
You don't have to be British or from other country to enjoy and learn from these type of documentaries it's fantastic to learn new things and get smarter everyday.
Such bullshit told about corsets. How can you tell about "tiny waists" and show videos of normally-waisted women right away. Seriously. Corsets were not more harmful than modern bras. They were bras of that time, in fact. I'd reconsider talking to a "historian" who just carries on a widely-spread misconception
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I just noticed the tornado in the background at the beginning
I can already see Bernadette and karolina rolling their eyes at that corset misinformation
😅
Same! Ugh
Yup. Let the tongue lashing beging.
But look at this comment thread. The impact those channels have on people's awareness of this bullshit is absolutely awe-inspiring.
Same
Corsets were not torture devices to the average person though. Nobody would have worn them or got anything done if everyone was tight lacing. The whale bone used was soft and flexible like plastic zip ties; and eventually it would conform to the body the more it was broken in. Be wary of drawings and photos because they could be misleading. Subjects' waists in photos were able to be edited to look smaller than they actually were. I'm not an expert on topics, but I know this much
Yes, exactly! Bernadette Banner? Lol
@@ameliajames1463 yup hehe and from other people from the historical fashion crew ✌
@@ameliajames1463 Abby Cox is even more of an expert on this particular topic.
I'm not an expert myself but I listened to and read plenty of people who specialize in making of period clothing and corsets WERE COMFORTABLE AND SAFE, as long as they were well made and fitted to an individual size, laced correctly, not worn during pregnancy and worn over undergarments. Which was how all actual people living in the past wore them (perhaps with the exclusion of Marie Antoinette that one time while she was pregnant with one of her kids), and NOT HOW ACTORS STARRING IN POORLY RESEARCHED PERIOD DRAMAS WEAR THEM.
See Abby Cox 's video reaction to victorian practices by Weird History 😒
I’m so glad that people are calling out the corset misinformation however honestly I worry what else they get wrong that we aren’t becoming more aware of
@@CashelOConnolly because we came out with bras. The ones TODAY are the killers. The ones before were shaped and molded to each and every single woman. No two were the same. Each gently supported the breasts without harming the spine, shoulders, or ribs. If they were such killers, how did the human population keep going? Can’t claim it moves your organs and near murders you, and in the same breath dismiss the fact that women had to get pregnant, stay pregnant, give birth, and over again several times WHILE WEARING the corsets.
@@CashelOConnolly if you don’t have boobs, then of course you wouldn’t see the purpose of proper support 🥴 and the corsets helped alleviate the pain from carrying a human that leads to both spine pain, and extreme pelvic pain. Of course you see no issue with neither of those things, but you should know, we wear corsets now in pregnancy too to support and help with pain
I often wonder what other misinformation there is too. And how to combat it... I really don't know, except study to become an actual historian...In every subject...For the rest of our lives... 👀
Painting lead pipes w lead paint! Smashingg idea
Just go w the flow @katieB
No one's rushing anywhere . There's no fomo. Preserve ya energy and study a little
I felt sorry for the boys being split up because my brother and I have always been together. My dad got in trouble for not taking care of us and we had to meet with a social worker and we discussed it between us and decided to lie so that we could stay together and so that we wouldn't be abused. They dropped the case much to our relief. I can feel very deeply for all these kids. Sounds like the boys each came into their own though.
"My corsets killing me. Have you got any cocaine left?" Hilarious!
No one:
This video: "CoRsEts aRe eViL!"
Karolina and Bernadette Fans: "Well this isn't historically accurate at all."
😂
The lady was even holding the corset the wrong way up
Im not even with it, will have to look it up but yes, the comments are full of it.😃
This is the exact reason I came to the comments. Tight lacing rarely ever happened and was not the normal!
What’s annoying about Bernadette and Karolina’s fans is that they think all corsets are perfect and amazing. There’s a reason women ceased wearing them, they did restrict movement. Many upper class ladies tight laced in order to be fashionable. That’s why the rational dress society was created in 1881 and really picked up steam in the Edwardian era.
Along with @Spicycat s comment I would also like to point out that tight lacing was a very rare thing to do, only a few "slaves of Fashion" would do it. I am a studied costume designer, I made some corsets for myself, after my measurements, and only After hours and hours they start to become uncomfortable. Also, I made corsets for Opera singers, and they surely would not be able to sing if their corsets would be restricting, let alone shifting organs.
Also, the women seen with those infamous wasp waists needed to start tight lacing at a very young age, before they were fully grown, otherwise your bone structure would not allow such dramatic changes.
So yes, it was a fashion ideal back then, but like today, only a minority would really try to live up to it. Saying corsets "often caused organs to shift" etc simply isnt true.
Agreed.
There also happens to be a reason why women throw off the bras and heels as soon as they get home too 😉
They're just SO comfy...
@@katyb2793 Bras and corsets are made in entirely different ways. There's in fact much less support in a bra than there is in a corset, and the band on a bra is much smaller, which means it puts more pressure on the area it's wrapped around.
@@foreverdead1248 I know haha. My point was those who say we're better off today without corsets forget that bras and heels aren't comfortable. (Heels aren't even healthy). I would never say a corset is more comfortable than no corset though, nor is a bra more comfortable than no bra, unless someone is well endowed.
@@katyb2793 Neither bras, nor heels, NOR corsets are healthy. It's cute that you like historical fashion, but women protested and stopped wearing corsets for a reason. And now during the pandemic, women are ceasing to wear bras and resolving not to put them back on when they return to "in-person" work, and Say good for them. All that stuff just weakens the cooper's ligaments. Our breasts are better off without, and certainly we don't need corsets restricting movement and breathing (yes, even without tight-lacing, they do limit how much air you can take in, just a fact that certain people will lie about to make corsets seem like just some harmless good fun).
I was fascinated by the dentistry section, as im a dentist. Old times dentistry always has had me curious. I was heartbroken by the way the brothers were treated because of their skin color. Edward had to have been an incredible student and a brilliant mind to be top of his class. Racism is 🗑 🚮.
louib716....
I watched the whole vid & didn't see where either brother was treated any different from any other race.
So sad that people like you, have to make false claims about racism.
@@fabledfantasty7343
They claim racism so much, and never actually see any, so they make some up. 🤷🏻♀️ It makes no sense, cuz I thought they wanted to eradicate racism…. And it’s gone, so 🤦🏻♀️
@piecesoftheheart9231 don't be ignorant. Racism will never be eradicated the western world was built on it its ingrained into the history and culture
Nice to see history focus on different classes and include personal accounts of people of colour who were more prevalent than most of us realize in victorian times, and industrial revolution. Thank you.
I can really recommend Tony's series about "The worst jobs in the world". There he really gets down and dirty to show us what the lowest class had to deal with on a day to day basis to make ends meet.
Actually a lot of Victorian and Edwardian corsets in museums weren't that small. My Maltese great great grandfather worked on ships and he was supposed to be on the titanic and later on the Lusitania but he was so hung over that he slept through and missed his jobs.
Wow, both ships sank in violent ways. That's extremely lucky for him
@@visassess8607 That man wasn't late. The good Lord snoozed his clock...
Why does no one mention that a chemise would likely have been worn under the corset. The first item a lady (or any women for that matter) would have put on would not be a corset. Not only would that have been terrifically uncomfortable, it would unnecessarily have soiled the corset.
"That would not be the last time his ship got totaled"
Me: eh?... oh....OH... UH OH
Pretty incredible that he survived four ships sinking. That's one fearless bloke.
@@kflo8634 Pretty incredible that he managed to get another job One shipwreck could happen to anyone I suppose, but at a certain point folks would surely think... maybe this dude's a jinx! LOL
Oh COME ON with ALL of the information on corsets nowadays can you PLEASE stop saying they all tightlaced and deformed themselves??? It’s factually not at all correct. For gods sake.
Many medical braces of today have striking similarities in structure. They can be helpful roo
I came here to say the same thing! It's so frustrating that this misinformation keeps being perpetuated!!!
God's....
Wonder how many obese wore corsets. Or how many humans were obese then vs now.
@@cindydufala7646 Large people wore them just the same. Corsets were made to measure to your body, much better than today where everything we own is off the rack and never quite fits, even the tailored items. It wasn't about being tiny or small framed, it was about the fashionable silhouette, and everyone then was the same size as now, more likely the very lower class was underfed and malnourished, but anyways. The reason that there are so many historical garments that we find that are so tiny is that not many people could wear them, so they never developed the same wear that would have destroyed them, they would have been kept in a back room or closet or attic for years and years, you wouldn't throw them away, you'd just wait until they were needed and for the very small and specific sizes, you really had no use for them.
The story of Edward and Walter, had me cheering and praising the their lives, but when Walter was killed in the first World War, i shed a tear ffor him and his brother, I love watching anything Thats presented by Tony Robinson, he's legendary for keeping anyone engaged enough to learn some History. OXO
I fondly remember him also as Baldrick :)
Love the stories of individuals. Makes history so personal. And Tony Robinson's humor makes it so great
Watching these types of videos really makes me feel better about going to work at my own job. Like yeah working in this call center sucks but at least I'm not a 10 year old in a coal factory.
Big facts.
@@tiffiebaebee It makes me grateful for union organizers. Some of whom took up arms to fight back against the bosses and their hired thugs, and many of whom were killed whether they picked up weapons or not. Without those union folks back in the day, we'd still have no benefits/no overtime etc, and possibly even still children in coal mines.
Tiny correction : he did not suffer because he was black. He suffered because he lived in a racist society.
It is not the victim's fault they are marginalized: it is society's fault if it is marginalizing.
Saying that he suffered because he was black is not the same as saying that the suffering brought upon him was his fault. So you are correcting nothing; you are just fishing for likes by trying to be woke.
Arguing semantics distracts from the issue at hand. No one is saying racism is his fault, and you know. When someone says they’re miserable because they’re sick, do you tell them, “No, you’re miserable because you’re living with cancer”? We all know what’s meant, but congrats on changing the topic to semantics.
Everyone is talking about the corset misinformation and not enough about Edward and Walter's beautiful and tragic story 😔
The corset thing wasn't even misinformation, those people are just ignorant and don't understand why women stopped wearing the damned things, they were left behind for a reason, yes, even without "tight-lacing", they make it hard to breathe and restrict movement, and yes, that 's-figure' was a dangerous beauty standard to hold women to, as many other beauty standards have been and continue to be.
And as for the brothers, I was so sad that they were separated and kept waiting for a happy ending, but sadly there wasn't exactly on, bravo to Walter and Eddie for achieving all they they did in spite of the ignorance blocking their way. I just think it's so sad to separate siblings, I even think it's sad to do it to puppies and kittens when they get adopted out (though I understand entire litters are a bit much for people to take on), but ehen it's humans it's so much sadder! I hope that doesn't happen anymore.
@@venus_envy Women stopped wearing corsets because the style of underwear evolved and changed over time. The corset part in here is complete misinformation and just plain wrong. Women could move perfectly fine in corsets and breathe without issue. They were a support garment and supported both the bust and back which has been proven even in modern times to help those with back problems. Tight lacing was not common place. Women worked in corsets and participated in athletics without problems or restricted movement. The Prior Attire channel even has a video showing this
I was enjoying this one until they started spouting a lot of nonsense about corsetry; tight-lacing was NOT common, and reports of deformities being caused by wearing stays (which is the correct term, not corset) are sketchy at best. In fact, as stays were always made to fit the individual, not mass produced, they could actually have served as back support, not unlike the big ugly back support belts one sees stockers in retail stores wearing. Do some research before you start saying things in a damn documentary; people take you seriously. I sort of used to. Not so much now, though. What nonsense!
Wel in my hometown there was a huge factory called Royal Worcester Corset Company - Wikipedia
The Royal Worcester Corset Company, was founded as The Worcester Skirt Company by David Hale Fanning in 1861 in Worcester, MA,
My Great Grandmother lived during this era and wore cosets.
Supportive garments like this where know as stays until the early to mid 19th century when English speakers transitioned to the french term of corset
It’s not that deep.
Lol we get it, you wear corsets in modern times... but fuck the patriarchy
@@MISFITaddict what does this have to do with corsetry? Many, many historical sources actually show that men would routinely mock women for wearing corsets. They were created for women, to support their bodies and garments. Women generally enjoyed wearing their stays or corsets, otherwise their bodies would’ve hurt terribly!
Ahh perfect I needed a reason to stay in bed a little longer 😉
and I needed a reason to not sleep xD
The corset description is WRONG. Most women did not tight lace, they padded out other body parts to achieve the shape.
I've said it once and I'll say it again. It must be overwhelmingly fascinating to live in a land where you still can access buildings and places and things that existed hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Here in the US stuff only goes back a few hundred years. Even what someone stupidly called "prehistoric" fish weirs in our rivers were created by native americans around 500 years ago. But just the quantity and magnitude of the old stuff in Europe blows me away.
@@classyhistoricalsewing My town was established in 1908 lol. I'd love to visit Europe. That's where all my ancestry derives. Have a good one.
Maybe go live there then!
@@alianamanzana2452 I'd rather just visit. My life in is Georgia lol.
Christel.....
Your ignorance & your lack of education is showing! No "stuff" does NOT only go back a few hundred years. Do some research before you you make statements that make you sound like an absolute imbecile 😂.
@@fabledfantasty7343 hmm... you apparently don't know what I mean. The "stuff" I'm referring to is European settlement. American cities do not have buildings built thousands or even several hundreds of years ago. In fact, many of the buildings around us here in the US are from less than a mere 100 years ago. Compare that with being in Europe, where you can potentially be surrounded by actual ancient buildings. Sure you can visit ancient Native structures in the US. But no one is watching tv in their house built in the 1500s in America. Don't be a stupid ass please.
The hosts voice impressions are hilarious. A+
Tony has always had the capacity of waxing serious and hilarious at the tip of a hat. He knows when to play to the crowd, and when we want honesty. Yes, it's irritating to see the corset drama still continues; I rightly believe there were some who may have pushed the limits, but for the greater part of society, it's always the padding that lends the true shape and fit.
Those 2 brothers were amazing, great role models for all people of color and a valuable lesson that no one should judge someone's ability based on their skin color.
Not skin colour, nor sex! Agreed, they were great role models.
It goes to show that society back then was not so blinkered and anyone regardless of their upbringing in the metropolis could be successful. Both he and his brother seem to have done quite well. Despite the ignorance of the Bristol fans as the newspaper reported that Carl’s “tactics were absolutely beyond reproach, but he became the butt of the ignorant partisan”. Let’s not forget that Carl became a carpenter and his brother became a dentist. I am not saying they did not experience prejudice, but I am saying that perhaps they were also allowed opportunities that the vast majority of orphans never experienced. Edward even overcame prejudice and joined the middle classes. I would say both brothers overcome their humble origins and I say that without reference to their colour.
Had to turn it off when it become the diversity documentary, especially because you can see how far the entire society has fallen as a result of seeds like them being sown in the country.
@@deanwal1962 "could be successful" sure - but it was a lot harder for these individuals for no reason... the "allowed opportunities" you mention were the result of a few kind souls who showed respect and love for fellow humans regardless of color, and they weren't "allowed" to succeed by society, the brother conjured opportunities with hard work and relentless strength very few have!
@@boringNW Humans as species have never lived in more comfort, safety, luxury and opportunities than right of this moment ! your quite delusional ! stop reading daily news and touch real grass!
Just think: the corset persisted for not mere decades, but literally centuries. It’s almost like it was a supportive undergarment and the waist definition was mainly the job of padding and judicious use of altering photographic negatives.
Costubers and corset maker come to the attack! 😤 no wonder the corset myth keep on going, this a documentary
This is not historically accurate. The corset did not go next to the skin and it did not form the shape. That was done with bum pads, hip pads, etc. Tsk, tsk, Absolute History, what else is inaccurate in your story?
While I love the documentations, please stop perpetuating the myth of the terrible corset. It was NOT generally uncomfortable and tight. At most the average women would reduce waist circumference by a very few inches. It all comes down to proportion. And there was a LOT of padding going on in addition to create4 the ilusuion of a very slim waist. While there was tight lacing it was not very common. It was actually already back then locked upon as bad for you and damaging. There is medical text mentioning the "women who endanger their heath by tight lacing" and stuff like that. Its like extremely high high heels today. Its known to be bad for you, but there is enough people doing it none the less.
Almost everything said here about corsets is VERY MUCH UNTRUE. Where did they take that blue dress woman from and why is she talking such nonsense.
The story of the brothers brought joy and tears
The historical knowledge is fascinating, but it's the cheeky humor that keeps me coming back. 🤣
They’re incorrect on several facts, so take it with a grain of salt
12:00 guy builds a luxury dining hall in a shed.
But why? Why would you do that?
It might have been nice if he'd asked John about that. Instead , he doesn't allow him a single word, and walks away with a "Cheers, John!" which I frankly found rather patronising.
Because he can
@@morganfisherart That wasn’t the point of the episode.
Is it possible the house and grounds are a National Trust pay to view place, and they’re trying to capitalise on the Titanic connection?
As an American I love watching these. American programs are just so...annoying.
Same here. American docus are almost always either so dry you'll die of dehydration and boredom watching them, or so over-the-top it's completely ridiculous. Several of the British ones find a better balance of accuracy and fun.
I joined the US Navy in the 90s and I was an engineer and I ran jet fuel-fired boilers at the bottom of the ship called "The Pit". It was extremely hot and the heat went up as the water temp went up. I'm not sure why they couldn't figure out how to feed a coal furnace without manpower or a bit less of it. I know how hot it is down in the pit and I can't imagine what those men went through.
omg I love Tony! Remember him from Blackadder series as "Baldrick!"
I absolutely adore Tony Robinson and his ability to educate of the "regular & poor classes" with accuracy and humor without any disrespect. He's fabulous also that he willingly participates in any jobs regardless. Thanks Tony 😊.
Well, let's be brutally honest... Tony participates in awful jobs for perhaps an hour, and I imagine he's paid quite well for it. And he complains about it the whole time. ;)
It's good fun and all, but it's sure not the same as having little to no other choice and doing it until you're either too old and/or battered to work at all or you just frickin' DIE lol
(and yes, I know, I'm quite sure he's aware of that.)
Tony is one of my favorite , I'll always watch what he's presenting
I was pleasantly surprised to see black Victorians. The first time I’ve ever seen a black person on a historical program. Thank you Tony.
Tight lacing is a lie! And it's in a Documentary. Tsk tsk.
How did 2 historians get corsetry wrong? They did not tightlace all the time. The garment was also cut and sewn in a way to get its shape. The boning gave it support, not its shape. The bones also were pliable enough with heat to eventually shape to the body. Otherwise, the maid couldn't have been able to do her job.
25:00 This kind of stuff is happening today in labor reform. "Raise the minimum wage? Well I won't pay it!" ~The Owner Class I wonder if we'll have a resurgence of mechanical things as energy conservation becomes more commonplace.
All such sad stories. You are one of my top favorite presenters sitting right alongside Richard Attenborough and Stephen Fry.
On a ship : We have a new sailer.
- What's his name ?
Arthur.
Oh - NOoooo !
😅
Those firemen were probably so effing ripped, sweaty and 🤤....really hot!! Due to the fire and heat! Ofcorse 😅
I love this channel! They do a great job of making history interesting, and they can also be quite funny. I also like this narrator.
So disappointed at the corset trope. Especially coming from a History channel. Tight lacing was very rare and didn't really happen until steel boning became widely available, even then it was only really high fashion, not everyday wear. The 'S' bend corset was not very popular and the vast amount of women achieved a 'tiny' waist through the use of padding.
I was preparing to write a strongly worded comment about the real history of corsets, only to scroll down to the comments and see that many people have already beaten me to it! Thank you all for spreading the truth!
Watching from the Philippines 🙂 thank you for this. Perfecy way to end a busy day.
Up until about the mid-1950s, many of the school dental nurses used treadle drills and it was the effect of these on children who were not often offered xylocaine that led to the accolade of The Murder House for the clinic. My late father was a dental graduate, Otago 1954; in the late '70s he agreed to travel a lengthy pig of a road to a remote area school - one with pupils of all ages - to do the kids' dental work. There were no facilities and he had to take everything with him in the car, including a treadle drill. To shorten the story, he found he could work more efficiently by engaging the (willing!) assistance of a couple of burly lads from the rugby team who, once shown how to operate the treadle, could maintain uniform maximum speed, freeing dad to concentrate on the dentistry, which, with nervous children in the chair has its own unique problems without being thrown off balance by the treadle foot pumping away - true multi-tasking.
I couldn't help but laugh. This guy is such an awesome storyteller!!
Great documentary. My nan was an Edwardian, born in May 1901. This was her world. She was of the poor working class. I still go and walk the streets where she grew up and think to myself "100 years ago my nan was xx age and doing...."
Love this historical series! Interesting story of Edward and Walter Tull!
Love these types of videos but boy are they so wrong on corsets. It’s almost like they want women to think they’re bad. Been wearing a corset for years and I’ve never felt restricted or short of breath. Did a man write this script? lol
Disappointed with the misinformation about corsets and the fashion of the era.
Arthur has the deadest eyes.
They need to update their corset section! We now know a LOT of the myths around tight laceing and deformation of ribcages aren't facts, but rather, male doctors desperately trying to prove women as vain and unable to care for themselves. I highly recommend quite a few historians here on TH-cam which will "bust" the myths propagated in this video
This is one of my fave channels. Highly recommended! It helps you learn in an engaging way. Plus, the hosts are always super great. I truly appreciate this type of programming. ❤
Annie Murray wrote a book called The black country orphan its about women chain makers it's absolutely brilliant Well worth a read
My last name is priest and I'm from "black country" !!
Madness
Love me some Baldrick on a Tuesday evening !
The economic disparity is super gross; "cheerfulness" re: a life of back breaking work notwithstanding.
That’s what i was thinking. Completely exploited
@@maddie7341 we're getting back to a point of very similar economic disparity, and that really sucks.
Some poor women were taken on a “shopping trip” by their mothers before their wedding, not knowing they were going to be tied in a dentists chair and have all their teeth forcibly removed🙀
My grandfather was born poor in London in 1890. He told me that removal of all teeth and a set of dentures was considered a "good" 21st birthday gift.
Omg
I wear corsets all the time and I’ve always found corsets to be comfortable. Like a hug.
I also wear them BUT it’s hard as hell to drive in mine and take a shit or piss 🤣
Once again a failure to find out the truth frorm people who really know about corsets.
Absolute History British w/Tony Robinson *Edwardian Era Titanic* Listening from Mass USA TYVM 💙 Tony
Fellow Massachusettsian here!
The term "problematic" is so annoying. Most over used word of the 21st century.
sausages, sometimes meat- is sausage not meat now?
...do you wánt to know what went into a 19th century working-class sausage? I think I'd be better off not knowing. :D But kinda hilarious indeed, I didn't notice he said it like that!
Meat “byproducts”
In a perfect world, organs and blood. But the truth was that before food safety laws, sausages were gross and quite literally made of ‘mystery meat’. You were lucky if it was all edible. Lots would have been made with inorganic ‘fillers’, poisonous chemicals, and/or (possibly) spoiled animal parts from (unhealthy) animals you wouldn’t normally want to eat.
What happened to the other three kids? You only walked about Walter and Edward.
Damn…all of these stories were sooo interesting. But silly me.. I thought we would get through the story of the orphaned brothers without veins of racism throughout . But duh 🙄 Fun fact.. one of my favorite dentists I ever had was a big part of establishing the AADA in the U.S. and was a peer of Dr. MLK. I feel some consolation in having experienced this man and knowing while watching this that at least dentistry got better.
He really did experience the 'best' and 'worst' of man. Very touching...
My dream has always been to visit Great Britain! Someday! 👍💚
Very sad how people were divided, and sadly lost 💔
Didn't the Edwardian period end in 1910?
It's indicative
Yes, as far as the monarchs go, but fashion and culturewise the years leading up to WWI are also included. Also his successor was a George but you wouldn't call that era Georgian, right?
Wait...is that Baldrick???
Not so fun fact..some of the firemen on the Titanic refused to leave their posts, continuing to shovel and tend fire until flooded and drowned, so that the ship could maintain propulsion and operating systems. The lower class equivalent of the band, and the gallant male passengers. I really do wonder how people today would react to the instruction, “women and children first”. Children, I think would still get priority, but would and should women?
Yes...
Somehow, I just *knew* you were going to say that Priest wound up on Titanic...
10:51 Nelly & the Cavendish’s sounds like a 60s girl group
There should be a documentary about Edward and Walter,hell a film 🎥
Someday people in the future will also make a documentary about the right things we do that are actually wrong/dangerous to us, such as mobile phones and school.
Im from the black country, west midlands and the bit where he is in the old high street is part of the black county living museum, where he explains about the chain making. However he says it was made in CHADLEY HEATH?? There is no chadley heath in the black country. He got it wrong, its called CRADLEY HEATH, west midlands! Just had to let people know what we are actually called as its a huge part of our history, the chains are even represented in our black country flag!
wonderful 👍😁 history and lovely British humour, love it ☕🍰
"The waists were unimaginably tiny!" *cuts to video of normal waisted women.
Enough with the corset BS. They weren't sickeningly tight, and didn't cause deformity to the wearer (otherwise we'd have skeletal evidence, articles of the era, etc.). A ton of working class women could do hard work in a corset, and while somewhat restrictive, it offered back support, and also kept padding, underskirts and weight of other garments from digging into the hips. The "pigeon chest" of the era and small waist illusion was achieved with clever use of padding & lace in every area you can imagine. Also, whalebone wasn't the actual bone, it was baleen, the filter system in a whale's mouth. Bendy and sturdy, like the thin plastic or steel inserts we use for fancy clothes nowadays.
Patience lived to be 103. Considering inflation, how old is that in today’s age? 🤣
Yeah, no- it's a *pass* for me, the person who has to go to the anesthesia dentist _just_ for a teeth cleaning. 😂
I don't know why, but teeth are my trigger. And when I say trigger, I mean... like it's my "Nuke" button. 🤣
As usual, you’ve mucked up the history of corsets. The Edwardian shape did partially rely on corsets for overall structure, however, there was also quite a lot of padding involved to make the waist appear smaller without constricting the wearer. Corsets were almost always made to fit more or less comfortably. Whalebone was a common material, but it was surprisingly flexible, allowing for movement. Tightlacing, deformities, and other problems were the strong minority. This would be like a historian 100 years into the future pointing to today’s fashion models and saying, “Women in the early 20th century starved themselves and put their bodies through grueling exercise routines to meet the standard of an average woman.” You’re a history channel, stop perpetuating this nonsense.
Y'all are making it hard to trust you when you keep lying about corsets 😭 I love these documentaries but the way you make them out to be torture devices every women just agreed to wear is just wrong.
Also I just noticed how others are commenting the same thing in the comments section. Thank goodness!
Robinson has no qualifications for presenting anything historical other than playing Baldrick. Big whoop. Give me an intelligent presenter who really knows their subject like Lucy Worsley any day, not "hilarious" infantile comments from someone just reading from a script.
I just cannot believe how people can make a decent documentary then fill it with these idiotic, and annoying micro animations which are so bad and unfunny it makes me want to turn this off
The lady with the dental apparatus looks just like my grandmother having her teeth straightened back in the 1910's. She was younger than the lady pictured, but the mouth apparatus was the same. She said it was torture.
The most remarkable thing I learned from this video and comments section is that apparently a whole lot of people today are still REALLY into corsets.
Nothing wrong with that of course, I just found it interesting.
Wish TLC( The Learning Channel) played stuff like this still!
Imagine getting dentures at age 21… voluntarily.
Considering the alternative at the time, I'd take it!
they shoulda visited the titanic museum in pigeon forge tennessee
You don't have to be British or from other country to enjoy and learn from these type of documentaries it's fantastic to learn new things and get smarter everyday.
Such bullshit told about corsets. How can you tell about "tiny waists" and show videos of normally-waisted women right away. Seriously. Corsets were not more harmful than modern bras. They were bras of that time, in fact. I'd reconsider talking to a "historian" who just carries on a widely-spread misconception
Can't unsee 'Barry' from friends in the picture at 39.18 now that I thought about it 🙈
I can't imagine sleeping with a chamber pot under bed smelling poo all night 🤢
I wonder what we're doing today that in a century or so people will look back on and shake their heads? Change is constant.
Excellent production. Other British productions drag but this one was packed with facts and photos!
Those stokers were like the coal miners of the day,strong arms and a grip like a bloody vice...