Roasting SHE WHO BECAME THE SUN for nearly two hours (Shelley Parker Chan)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Alternate Title: She Who Fisted the Sun
Please note: the author uses they/them pronouns. While we did try to respect that, we may have slipped up at a few points, and apologize for doing so.
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I don't read all these books but still watch for all of y'all's critiques and summaries. Great work! Keep it up😊
I’m kind of in the same boat. I have almost zero interest in the books that they’ve read for the podcast. But I love listening to people discuss books
if the story is inspired by Asian culture then fate is naturally a big thing - just because the West is a choice-centered culture, we should remember that some culture's are not, we cannot force the Western perspective onto onther cultures - even ancient Greece was far more fate-centric culture than we are, why, even Tolkien's stories are far more fate-centric that the modern West...
Fate is fine to discuss and be a theme in stories, but when it removes character agency, is repeatedly hashed over for no reason, and is watered down to a magic system instead of the actual concept as it's actually used in Asian cultures, it can be used better.
@@zosonte129 there always is something fatalistic about fate ;-), a loss of control, a helplesness, something which limits the "agency" of the agent, so a fate story will always "limit the agency" to a degree, there is no way around it.
As someone who grew up with male relatives because my mother was ill and out of commission, and also had no female role models: if anything she should feel othered from other women as well. The otherness would be because she was infact female, but also that she doesn't feel she fits with other women. She should be awkward and unsure about how to be around women because the society is so gendered, she'd feel an absence of perceived feminity.
It took me til my mid twenties to really make female friends and "feel" like a woman. Not trans, or nonbinary, but because I had no feminine influence I felt VERY othered when I was with other girls and women at school or work
I agree it’s so unrealistic for Zhu to just magically understand every woman without ever having any sort of female figure in her life till her early 20s
How the magic works in Asoiaf is pretty mysterious. Some blood is reputed more powerful than others (king's blood, for one), but it's kind of pointed out that kingship is a made up, constructed thing, that not everybody sees the same. The clearest stuff we get is that magic is a "sword without a hilt", basically impossible to truly to master and almost always impredictible.
So her brother just Padme Amidalad himself out of the story? xD
It’s interesting to hear you accept the fate-construct! That wasn’t my own reading at all, and perhaps that’s part of why I was able to enjoy the book more than you did, heh.
The main character stepping away from the nothing-fate, choosing another, felt like it disproved fate’s inevitability within the story. It seemed more like it responded to determination/conviction than being set in stone and pre-ordained. (Though I can understand your perspective of it seeming like a force with conscious intent, it seemed that way to me as well.)
And with Ouyang, I felt that the *point* and the tragedy of it was that because of his beliefs, because of who *he* was, he could not envision taking a different course of action. There were multiple moments where it was implied that he was the one holding onto the ghosts (or at least that was Zhu’s perception). It seemed like *he* was the one who had written himself into this fate because of his own worldview and choices, and his grief and anger about the ‘inevitability’ of it was one of the lies he told himself; a major character flaw, not necessarily something we as readers are supposed to accept.
I feel that this reading was also reinforced as a narrative parallel in Zhu’s reaction to her amputation vs. Zhu’s *expectations* of her reaction because of his own buy-in to societal judgement. Ouyan feels beholden to and shaped by what is done to him; Zhu experiences things differently.
Idk why but I'm getting such strong disappointed greek aunt from the village who just learned you abandoned medical school to become a professional tik toker vibes from Maria in this thumbnail
Hi guys, this is a super interesting book I've heard nothing about, and want to commend you for covering. It's cool that there are more Asian writers writing in fantasy, though I'm personally troubled that so many of them rely on their cultural heritage as a selling point of their universes.
I am Asian, and half Chinese. I spent all of my childhood and part of my adult life in South East Asia. I am not an expert in Chinese history, culture or religion, even though I grew up at my Chinese grandmother's knee, watching Hong Kong martial arts and love story dramas.
So with all that disclaimer out of the way, I wanted to address two aspects that I take as gospel, even though it seems silly.
One, names have weight in Chinese culture. A name that is too pretty, tempts the gods to punish / curse the owner with ugliness. A name that is too powerful (heavy) for the person to bear, will crush them under the weight of expectation and destiny.
Two, fate is actually considered more like destiny, but not as in its a sure thing or fixed. It's more like potential, that if you went with the flow of your potential, things would be easier. If you swam upstream against it, then your life becomes more challenging. Not everything is tied to your destiny (like what you choose to eat for dinner - unless you're a cannibal - doesn't define you), so there is some agency in day to day things. But when you face difficulty, you might consult with a medium to gain advice as to where destiny wants you to flow.
How I picked up on this: When I was still living in Asia, my next door neighbor was a Chinese spirit medium. Now before you roll your eyes, she had track record and a whole plethora of people who swear by her abilities. She took on the persona of the spirit she was channeling, including speech, physical mannerisms and dietary desires. Things that she had no way of finding out as no one had told her. And she's not rich, she accepts donations, but only to keep the lights on in her mother's home (where she lives), and to occasionally pay for food. She manifested her power at 14. Ignored it for as long as she could. At 17 she had to embrace her abilities, because the spirits didn't leave her alone - at least this is what she told me.
Her mother shared that for the first 3 years of the medium's life, she was constantly ill, and she had very very poor luck, and she was advised by a feng shui type consultant (though not feng shui, I just don't remember what kind of expert it was), that the medium's name was too heavy for her. So her mother changed it, not legally, but what everybody in life would call her. As simple as that, her health and her luck improved. Again this is anecdotal evidence. But they believed in this.
So, in hearing your critiques, I admit that I'm a bit turned off about the idea that you could take someone's name and co-opt their 'fate'. Because based on what I've heard, that's not how it works. Fate being tied to name exists, but again, you need a name that fits you (the individual soul), else you're gonna get cursed (and maybe the main character did, being hit with the ugly stick).
Perhaps the way to read this is the main character is an unreliable narrator. She sees herself in a certain way, that is not necessarily reflected in how others perceive her. She is mistaken that by taking her brother's name, she has his destiny.
Again, I'm not an expert, I just can share anecdotal evidence as it has been relayed to me. I enjoyed the roast though. Really. I hope one day my novel gets on this channel (hopefully not a roast), though I'll have to finish it first. :)
You basically hit upon what the book was getting at with "She is mistaken that by taking her brother's name, she has his destiny". The destiny of greatness that was assigned to her brother is implied to actually be her own, just misattributed to her brother, while her brother's destiny was actually the one thought to be hers which was nothingness.
I never heard this thing about names being too heavy, that's quite interesting. My mom gave me a pretty powerful name (杰曦), which means "exceptional/heroic light of dawn", and which I feel do not suits me at all but whatever, however I don't think I ever had big health problems as a child or anything like that... I don't know if you would consider my name powerful, but it has connotations of greatness through the character 杰, as well as hope, new beginnings and sunlight that wards of the night through 曦, which I find a very powerful combination.
This was an interesting read. I too was confused why the narrator in this book felt that if she took her brother's name she would simply take on his destiny. Maybe her line of thought was that he had taken her destiny (nothingness), so she had traded with him? Not sure. I would think one's destiny as it is laid out here is attached to a person and not simply the name given to that person. If one believed in divine powers, I can't see them being confused and seeing her as her brother.
I'm also not a fan of just waiting around for one's assigned fate. Which is another weird part in this story. She was unhappy with her fate of nothing and was already proactive prior to her brother dying. She already was aware that she was seen as lesser when her father tried to give her to bandits. So, why did she have to take her brother's destiny? I can see her usurping his name/identity to give herself a chance to survive and receive training at the monastery. That makes sense. But the idea that she was destined for certain things because of this sits really sour for me.
@@Amoreyna The interpretation I believe Parker-Chan is going for is that Zhu didn't actually "take" her brother's destiny; the destiny of greatness was actually hers all along. Her rationalizing it as "taking" her brother's fate is a manifestation of her perception of the world where she has to present as masculine to get traction in her quest for greatness, especially earlier in the book when she was afraid of what would happen if she was discovered.
What I believe is particularly telling is when Zhu ponders the difference between her and her brother's upbringing, and how being spoiled led her brother to being unable to cope with their father's death. The text appears to be pointing out that overspoiling her brother led to an ironic twist of fate where her brother was actually doomed to the fate of nothingness as opposed to one of greatness just delivered to him.
It wouldn't make sense for the MC to know the lady is pregnant because she wasn't raised around woman.
HOWEVER I will never forget the time I was sitting in the car while my son's dad was in the gas station, I was only TWO MONTHS pregnant and not showing the slightest. And this woman comes up to me (mind you I am still sitting in the car), and she says "You're pregnant aren't you?" I was baffled as heck. She follows up with "I could tell by you *its." 😂😂😂😂 Serious as a heart attack. So yes some women can pick up on very slight details.
I've been noticing the unfortunate theme of new authors trying to write a story that's too grandiose for their skill level. They seem to think that they have to be out there solving social issues immediately or there's no point to a novel. False. A simple story that's memorable in a good way will always be better than a complex dumpster fire of words on paper.
I preordered this book from Amazon months before it came out. To this day, I still haven’t received it. I would occasionally het emails from Amazon with the “sorry we don’t have it in stock” (even though they totally did, but the price had doubled so I guess they didn’t want to give it to me for the price I paid). Now, I don’t even get emails about it anymore. I’m just curious when, if ever, they’ll send it after literal YEARS 😂
So. Exited for this video because I didn’t get to read the book yet!! 😅
cant you like sue them for that?? its insane that theyre allowed to simply not give you something you paid for lol
Why not file a lawsuit?
Have you gotten the book yet? I am invested in this
This Podcast is nothing shy of absolutely charming. please continue to put out this authentic and wholesome content.
FATE MANDATES THAT I LEAVE A COMMENT FOR THE ALGORITHM GODS!!!
Also, the only C-drama I'd recommend would be "Winter Begonia" which, ironically, is about Chinese opera set in the 1930's.
Pumpkin aproves!
I enjoy your deep dives into critiquing a book even if I don't always agree with them. In this case, the K-drama similarities is a matter of taste (totally agree with Maria's comparison to anime in that it has it's own style and genre conventions). I thought it worked well juxtaposed with the absurd magic stuff. I also thought this book handled Zhu's complicated relationship with her gender quite well. I interpreted Zhu's constant obsession with fate (i.e. being discovered by the powers that be as an imposter) as an externalizing of an internal conflict she feels about her identity. If she's a man now, is she allowed to do things (know things) that are culturally coded as feminine? I will push back on the idea that she had an agender upbringing up to when she was 8. That's not universally true, e.g. lots of parents will insist that their girls naturally wanted to play with dolls. Kids pick up gendered expectations early. And Zhu had been ignored and forced to do a grown woman's work (cooking, cleaning, etc.) when she was a child. Speaking as someone who is discovering that they may be trans after over 30 years of being alive, I can tell you that sometimes the dysphoria is simply ignoring the physical existence of your body. And that's what Zhu does. She's not out here wanting top surgery or a peen, the way her dysphoria manifests is that her body feels wrong. To me that felt very relatable, and not sth I've ever read in a book before. Tl;dr, I'm gonna argue that the gender stuff was A+ because it felt like the author was writing from her own experience. There is no one right way to depict gender dysphoria.
I think the “agendered” childhood comment was more that she was not surrounded by women. She was TREATED as a girl child in a lot of ways but she did not have women around her and also did a lot of not-girl things due to the famine. It’s more that I think she would have a harder time connecting to other women who have lived drastically different lives. It’s the idea that her 8 years as a girl or her inherent woman-ness enables her to understand other women in an inherent/unspoken way. I think it’s a fantastic way to feel connected to people who are also othered for one reason or another but it feels odd as an inherent “woman-understanding.” I don’t know if that COMPLETELY makes sense. I do agree that there is no one correct way to display gender dysphoria. Thank you for your feedback and engaging with us! I really appreciate it!! - Maria
This is a really interesting comment! I read Zhu's relationship with her gender and obsession with fate much the same way. The theme of gender and how to carve out a path when you do not fit into the spaces reserved for men and women was my favorite part of this book. That said, I think we should have edited out some of the "fates" and other such phrases, and given Zhu some actual means to win her confrontations other than knowing things about women she couldn't possibly know, and winning by accident.
The gender stuff is why I pushed through this book. I found it lacking in most areas but that internal conflict was so well done
It sounds really like the author really wanted to write a xianxia story, but felt like it would be critiqued as "silly" and "B-movie", as Will put it. Instead they tried to insert that story into a wuxia about Zhu Yuanzhang, but couldn't commit.
During the entire video, I was fascinated by Maria's cat in the background, climbing and jumping around and doing random cute things. Makes me wish I had a cat too!
At this point, Im simply too motivated to finish my first book just to get a chance at a roast session from you guys
I'll likely never read most of the books you discuss, but I love Maria's narrating style.
managed to pack up half my dorm room just while watching this video!! i’d love for y’all to do more longer videos like this
I like Maria's cats. I tried to pet kittens on the street today, but they were hiding in the bushes, and didn't want to play with me. It made me a little sad, but it's okay, because I saw kittens, and that made me happy.
thank you for trying to not misgender the author! it feels the best when someone can comfortably gender someone correctly without thinking about it, but it still means a lot when people try and correct themselves
8:50 That would be The Man Himself, Joe Abercrombie
“That was the trouble with pride, and courage, and all those clench-jawed virtues bards love to harp on. The more you have, the more likely you are to end up bottom in a pile of dead men.” - The Heroes
Queen and Patreon represent 😂 great analysis as always and congratulations on 7k subs!
Sheesh, I'm only @1:08 into the video and the Textual Tension has already intensified!
Fortune telling/prophecy in fiction is a difficult but interesting topic. One of my stories also contains a prophecy that’s miss associated (father thinks it’s about himself, mother thinks it’s about a future son, but it’s really about the daughter). I think those are the most fun because people will try to fulfill the prophecy but ruin Everything trying.
Perfect background noise during a road-trip
Honestly listening to you guys bounce off eachother is my number one go-to for the background of my art. There are so many illustrations I only completed because I had you guys to listen to.
Though may I ask, William, what was it that you took issue with towards Contrapoints? I havent watched the entirety of her newest video, did she day something not so good?
So I think about 90% of the latest video is great, but her conclusion at the end was really weird to me. She seemed to be saying we shouldn't treat Rowling as the final boss of transphobia because she's really a tool / face for legislators who will actually enact transphobic policies. But that's a weird infantilization of a woman who has probably billions of dollars at her disposal, and far greater culture weight than they do. I dunno, it just struck me as a bit sexist.
Also the sections about her drama with Vaush were remarkably disingenuous. I followed that drama at the time, and it didn't play out that way. In the video she cuts together two different videos of his to make him say something he wasn't. And to say he only fights transphobia because it earns him virtue points is breathtakingly stupid considering his body of work. Contra (and Jessie Gender honestly) can be kind of extra on twitter, which is yet another argument against that hellsite.
--Will
That's why I didn't care and forgot it, it's because it was a slow burning mess.
I read the synop and then forgot about it being based on reality right after I started it.
I'm sorry but how long is that book? It sounds too long lol also, are you going to read Iron Widow 2? I think is coming out soon or maybe is already out, not sure.
Just over 400 pages so ironically, it's not that long.
I think the fate idea was great and the fact that the characters were so chained by it was fantastic. But the magic did detract because the definitive reality of a spiritual world and heaven actually listening gives less ambiguity morally to the characters' choices.
Damn. I am a hobby author hoping to get published one day, and the project I am on right now might be the one where I am finally good enough for that. However, it has a lot of very deep, intense concepts about queerness and disability that are very important to me, and now I wonder if I should try first with something more easy and trivial. But I just have no ideas for something like that right now.
It will probably depend on how good you are.. If your prose and character depth aren't yet where they should be, i would suggest something more *trivial* until you get there. Either way, good luck to you
Are you writing it to tell a story or are you writing it to push a message?
This seems to be the deciding factor for me personally if a work is enjoyable to read. An author may very well have many important or a valid viewpoints to share with the reader, but if it feels like it is shoved down the reader's throat and they're being preached at, it won't land for the reader. And personally, I think it shows in the book itself if the author starts with the concept instead of a core story.
Honestly, I don't know if focusing on concepts is the right move. Who are your characters? What makes them their own unique voice in the story? Are they fleshed out and behave like actual living creatures?
Small stories =/= trivial stories. Simple, tight narratives can still communicate and resonate with a reader, often in a far deeper and more intense way than large sweeping narratives attempting to juggle a lot of themes. And, backing up and going smaller may also open up ways you didn't originally see to tell a complex story.
@@Amoreyna That is honestly a very good question. Sadly, the answer is that I started with the concept, and the concept is very important to me, even though I really do love and came to care for the characters too, and its a relatively character driven story - but centered about a certain question the concept brings.
And I am not that good with being subtle. Personally one of my favorite books is a dystopia that is not subtle about its message, but it also feels quite character driven. But I know that most people don't like unsubtle things.
Right now, I also write several short stories that naturally focus on "smaller" situations, maybe that is a good practice? And I did write several novel-length fanfictions that centered not that world spanning situations too, fanfiction is quite different from published things and also the cast seems to hate fanfiction, but maybe this would be considered pratice too?
I really wonder if I should stop writing this novel for a while and focus on "smaller" stories to get practice? Or is this something I can "save" in editing?
I love Will's running homage to the Hunger Games with his camera constantly shaking
jk, great video, I was wondering if I shiuld get this book because the cover was interesting and a few friends liked it, but nope, looks like I can safely skip this one. Thanks!
Tarentino style grit can be done right. But also i only really know anime like mediums that do it right,
which makes sense its proably the medium he took a looot rom. Black lagoon, oh so good.
Shout out to Gideon the Ninth! ❤ Also, you should totally release that paper Maria.
Great video as usual! Love your reviews.
Question, since you mentioned her at the end: have you guys read Six of Crows? That is the book- and its sequel-Leigh Bardugo is lauded for and why the show is so successful.
ooh yay my friday listen-while-at-work podcast!!
quick question: is there a set day of the week & time for the patreon livestreams?
The livestreams are always saturday mornings at 10am the second and fourth week of the month.
@@unresolvedtextualtension thank you!
Its fascinating because in theory taoism would be a great perapective to view gender through. Be like the carp in the river, just flow with who you are and accept what you are. Embrace your core essence, cultivate your own power.
This is also reflected in Buddhism, which is about self-reflection, and letting go of worldly ties to distill oneself to a core 'truth' that is 'there is no truth'.
However, in that way both these ideaologies actually stand opposed to nonbinary or any form of gender expression.
To define oneself is to place value on the concept of 'self' which is inherintly both anti tao and buddhist. There is no 'I' there is no body, and to hold onto ideas of self expression is to mark oneself as an individual outside of the selflessness required of both these beliefs. As a monk you can neither be male nor female, nor can you be neither.
You can only be. In taoism, one is made both of Yin and Yang. However, to gain an immortal body one must gain greater Yang Qi. This has nothing to do with ones gender identity, however, and i am surprised there is no mention of diety Lan Caihe, who is gender neutral and sumbolizes disintrest of earthly matters(showing how gender and sex are earthly matters bound to yin and opposing cosmic unity with the tao).
Thus, inherently, this book features a contradiction as gender and expression are a large part of the story but stand opposed to the ideals and beliefs that are meant to support the magic system.
Also, there is no concept of fate, or destiny because yin ang yang powers are always moving and shifting. One's development is in your own hands, however you can modify your path by choosing auspicious days that bring good luck or greater fortune.
Destiny is more of a modern concept that was popularized by romance dramas lol
I had this on in the background and almost spat out my coffee from Will's "the xenomorph is a giant penis." 😂
A few small corrections! The correct term to use for the ethnicity of Zhu, Xu, Ma, etc. is Han rather than Mandarin. Mandarin should be used to refer to the majority dialect of the Chinese language. Han is the majority ethnic group in Mainland China and who we think of as "prototypically Chinese." I would also caution against labeling the Han as the "native Chinese" because that implies that ethnic minorities are not native when they are native to their regions many of which have not always politically been part of China and have their own distinctive cultures, languages, traditions, etc.
Even though I am a Chinese historian, I had a lot of issues with this book. Somehow it was hampered by the historical re-telling aspect while (in my opinion) underutilizing all the interesting things about Chinese history it might have used.
Also fun fact that eunuchs in pre-modern China had to keep their um bits post-castration and had to be buried with them because if they weren't it was believed bad things would happen to them once they departed to the underworld. So Ouyang, as a eunuch general who could die at any time, would have to be carrying his "three jewels" around with him this whole time. Even while he's having these long diatribes in his head. Knowing that I just couldn't take him seriously!
At this point, UTT should release a t-shirt that has the word "Perfunctory" on it.
Just started watching this. I listened to this book about a year ago and had mixed emotions. It'll be nice to hear what others think about it. I enjoyed the ride, but ultimately didn't care for it so much. I can't remember for the life of me why it left me feeling something to be desired.
I read this one a few months ago after hearing so much hype and I was so confused about why people loved it. I'm super glad I'm not alone in my opinions. 😅
Same, everyone was talking about it like it was the most amazing book they’ve ever read but I just didn’t get that at all.
I feel like I've seen "nonbinary author writes extremely rigid patriarchal/sexist worldbuilding" at least four or five times times now and I'm pretty sure every time the book kinda sucked. Like, I'm sure they're doing it as commenary on gender and sexism and stuff but I just... don't get it. Like, woo, the patriarchy, never seen that commented on in a book before. And it's always the same thing. There's so much potential and possibility with gender and transness and it's always underutilized.
Old comment but I'm low key curious as to what potential you had in mind?
@@kapwalapastangan Uhhh off the dome I remember this one book, like an older sci-fi book, with an alien race that's got only one gender and uses completely new pronouns for them. And they have their own unique culture. I've seen a few sci-fi books that had a "We're making our own rules" attitude towards gender.
And like, it's fiction, so you can just make shit up and say that's how it's works. It doesn't have to be a sci-fi alien race. It just can just be regular ass humans with a completely original or new biology and societal approach to gender.
And it doesn't even have to commentary about what you'd expect, like sexism. It could use transness and parnell to nature or even divinity or some shit. Like "metamorphosis" or "creation." Or to use it to make a connection between different types of people. Top surgery scars also look like gynecomastia scars and breast cancer scars. You could use it to show the difference between them, but also show the connection they share as human being going thru similar experiences. How people can look so similar but be so different or how they can look so different but be so similar.
My brain is soup rn so idk. I don't remember what this book was really about tbh. War or something?
@@monster-enthusiastFor the first one, do you maybe mean The Left Hand of Darkness bx Ursula K Le Guinn?
@@internetsuchtixd747 probably, yeah
32:52 I think the reason why the author put in the “female sense” is because they themselves grew up as a woman and have this “innate” female ability while it’s just them growing up and being treated as a female by society. If they wanted this in their book they should’ve had the MC get the same experience as well and not have the character moved to a male environment right away. They really shot themself in the foot having to give the child the experience of the historical character. They should’ve just written a fantasy with their own characters inspired by the historical character.
/an agender person
i think the idea of "nothingness" as something female might come from the concept of yin and yang-- yin (female energy) is often correlated with receptiveness and passivity.
Oh I cant wait to hear your thoughts! I gave up with this one, enjoyed the start then got super bored, espechially after they suddenly switched to new pov's... I had high hopes. 🙃
First! Love you guys btw
JOE ABERCROMBIE! That's the name you were blanking on, his First Law books are incredible.
I love Joe Abercrombie, so pleased with the Tarantino comparison 😆
@@llindberg194 Especially for Best Served Cold, that feels very Tarantino at times
@ellisg95 Yes you're probably right, although it isn't my favorite it is probably the most Tarantino-esque.
The author description says Shelley was inspired to write this book because they loved Chinese historical dramas, and it really shows because the logic feels like fanfiction and highly westernised despite being set in ancient China.
I feel like one thing a lot of Western authors (Xiran Jay Zhao is actually one of these) fail to grasp when writing Chinese based fiction is the way Chinese people think, their reasons for acting and their overall ideologies, and therefore their characters do not feel like Chinese people, they feel like Asian Americans or a caricature of Chinese people. It’s hard to explain the nuances, but an oversimplification would be that there’s simply not enough Confucianism 😂😂 (not the philosophy but the ideals and the way of viewing the world and the self)
An actual exploration of Confucianism, the cultures, and the ideologies of China at the time packaged for a western audience via a fantasy coming-of-age story sounds cool as hell, wish this book was doing that. Instead it's like a theme park version of those things, paying lip service instead of telling a story that weaves those things into it.
1:40:21 this is interesting to me because my reading of the story was that Zhu manifested their own mandate of heaven through sheer willpower, that their desire and audacity were so great that fate itself had to conform to it. But that could have just been my interpretation and not actually there, plus I read this book a long time ago & was rushing to finish the end because I had to get it done before the end of a reading challenge
There's a Manga series with this theme as it's story. It's called Ōoku. It's about how the Japanese palace hid the gender of the Emperor after an illness killed most the men. That manga has no fantasy. I couldn't finish the series because it got rather too dark for me.
Personally as a trans man it always bother me how so many non binary or transmasculine characters are written basically as girls who "simply want more" or just don't accept that they live in a world that is unfairly biased in favour of men. Transness ends up written as simply as a way to escape oppression. Which... is not how it works, at all.
There are plenty of powerful cis women that reject societal expectations and are still cis. Trans men and nb people don't transition simply to escape oppression, and if we did... well, it would be a major bad move considering how bad things are becoming right now.
Also there is the uncomfortable (and plain wrong) assumption that if we ever achieved gender equality and the system stops being biased then people would no longer have a reason to transition which is just... urgh.
I understand the author is NB, but honestly, being from a minority does not mean you are skilled at writing it. The protagonist relationship with gender is inconsistent and badly developed at best, and kinda iffy at worst.
10:44 William wtf you talking about? No neon colors. Tzeentch, Slaanesh, every other CWE, and (most vociferously) the HARLEQUINS would have words with thee.
Hell, even the Necrons use one neon color (green).
Why does she not have that the gods care more about the name, but she has to play that game with the humans.
Also she ciould have an eperience, thats ambivousmaking the gods connect with her, maybe. one time
So speaking of the gender stuff....I don't know what point on their gender journey Parker Chan was at when writing this, but I just read 'The Black Tides of Heaven', which sounds like it does "gender building" (as one of my goodreads friends called it) slightly better. The society there treats everyone as agender/non-binary at birth and they pick later...and there were a few details about how that played out that seemed odd to our reading group. However, apparently Neon Yang hadn't really been being fully intentional about "I am writing this using my non-binary perspective" in that first book.
That might account for the oddness in both stories, if the authors were having to IMAGINE what it is like to KNOW you are one of two genders, but weren't fully aware that that's what they were doing. Because as soon as one characters in BToH says they always knew they were a girl, I was like "Wait...how? What does that mean, especially in this society?" Because I am pretty sure I would NOT have come to that conclusion, or would have only done so reluctantly, if I'd been allowed to start with zero assumptions. I don't necessarily think EVERYONE would have, mind you - I can observe that some people (cis, trans, NB, whatever) clearly have a MUCH stronger sense of gender. I just don't know what that feels like, so it would be hard to write...which is why I'm hypothesizing that that's where these authors stumbled (Parker Chan more so, what with the Pregdar and whatnot!).
She makes great points, but that dude kept interruptimg her... This would have been better without him.
For once I want one of these stories where the girl child impersonates a man/father figure/brother figure for whatever reason, & then realises he's actually a boy & is happier as a boy than he ever was as a girl. Like, even when an enby person writes these things (& I'm saying this as an AFAB enby too), all these books are just so cisnormative, that they don't even do binary gender fuckery, much less nonbinary gender fuckery. It's such a disappointment
Did more that ursula guin explore that?
Also magical girl fiction could dig way more into that. More than coding anyways. There is so much ther and , yeah that could be ereally good narative too, especially like magic as side effect causing it and they like it more than usual..And like make that clear.
And why are shapeshifter rarely , nah whatever they feel like in th moment. Or they just dont care and cn do anything and do that. Why are shapeshifter most of the time gendered one way, not whatever convinience or they feel like in the moment?!
Its way more interesting too used.Likw what they conform to when whatever is just mpre interesting if they dot have clear preverences. And thats shapeshifter. Loki, in the greek edda, was havig pronouns whatever loki was then.
@@marocat4749 you misunderstand: I want an explicitly transmasc character in a Mulan-esque story
I'm right there with you, I want that too!!
NOT. THE. FIST.
i haven't read the book but as a trans person i am very uncomfortable by her magical woman powers...
She’s not magical because she’s a woman (or non-female presenting by the end or whatever) but more like author trying to “play” with the idea of “the chosen one” in fantasy in the context of gender roles in historical China (I say “play” because she only broaches it via inference and never makes a clear conclusion/ statement about it).
The fact they chose to write this about the Hongwu Emperor or even decided to make this a retelling is confusing to me when the Hongwu Emperor has about 40 children....
Y’all how do I join the discord. Is there a link?
I just joined Patreon and I’m bad w both apps
There should be a post about the discord if you scroll back. You can also send us a message on discord and Will can give you the link!- Maria
@@unresolvedtextualtension I’m in thanks guys!
I do kind of like the idea of a protagonist that looks like 5 miles of bad road though.
I really liked this book up until the last quarter or so. It's been a while since I read it but I remember feeling let down by the conclusion.
Spoiler
I specifically remember the MC killing the child despite the wife's protest and felt there wasn't a precedent for MC doing that. She'd been devious previously but murdering a child was just too far for her development at that point.
I thought it was extremely good at the beginning but it fell pretty hard at the end. The magic system is non existent and almost done with disdain
This is so sad. There are so many good Asian writers, even Asian web novel writers who write so much better, and yet we push to the front this thing. MTXT is so much better.
Do you mean Mo Xiong Tong Xiu?
They should totally read and critique Heaven Official's Blessing or Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation
Inspired by K dramas... so asian soap operas?
Best served cold...you mean joe abercrombie?! Nah if you forgot him you dont know books.
I think SPC invented Magical Empathy with this book. It's like telepathy but only works if you're destined for greatness and your soul recognises itself in the person being magicked.
Loved the monestary. I made it to the first battle and peace out. Glad I DNF, this book sounds awful.
Really got to stop using SOIAF as a baseline. Literally the most overrated series I've ever read.